#tropes about victims

[owlintheskies]

asking about.. oh shit hot professor alert 👀

mortal au teacher/student lukercy :)

Luke is not technically a professor, he’s more of a teaching assistant/phd student, but to first year Percy he’s his professor for one of his modules. he’s older, hot, blonde, fair eyed and exactly Percy’s type

Percy’s not really university material but a hot professor is a strong motivator and eventually he starts to enjoy/understand the class. it also helps that Luke always treats him so nicely with a smile, gives him praise and the occasional ‘accidental’ brush of hands

they’ll dance around each other, conduct some terrible flirting and it’ll definitely include some inappropriate usage of offices and/or classrooms (because of course it will)

my only problem with this fic is I haven't decided what degree they're both involved in… if you (or anyone else who happens to read this) has any suggestions feel free to throw them my way!

[supahstarrr]

i have to admit that i'm kind of scared to say this. i've held this thought to myself for a bit but. honestly, i'm unsure how i feel about people demonizing the concept of voicing & having criticism towards fanganronpas as a response to proclaimed fans of fanganronpas who have criticism rooted in bad-faith that is expressed disrespectfully. to say criticism, even when it is constructive, is less needed due to fangans being "less established" is—although understandable to an extent—simplistic thinking to me as it disregards context.

fanganronpas aren't established media—they may not have much impact to the general population as they are not promoted in established industries. yet there will be impact that is noteworthy regardless as not only it has its roots and inspiration from already established media, but also its apart of a niche community that is an extension of a larger community (danganronpa). let alone a niche community that is built on taking inspiration from other projects that are established or not.

criticizing fanganronpas extends to being criticism towards danganronpa, then to tropes the series uses which exists outside of that series. and what i'd argue is the most important—criticism towards fanganronpas act as inspiration for other fanganronpa creators and can be an expression of your love towards the series. for people to demean all criticism as unneeded and a character flaw of somebody, to just group up criticisms rooted in love or concerns for representation with ones fundamentally in bad-faith, and to just disregard the complexities of criticism by reducing it to one form—is harmful.

this thinking towards criticism leans towards being exclusive when at times they can also be concerns for how a fangan may use tropes that perpetuate harmful beliefs ingrained in society and/or contribute to (common) limiting tropes attached to minorities in media . i feel wary to voice or even have criticisms towards my own representation that is commonly disregarded or stereotypical (with those stereotypes stemming from harmful and dehumanizing beliefs) in fanganronpas and danganronpa. my concerns of how black, tanned & brown or women, girls, & femmes or how queer characters are represented in fanganronpas don't just stop there. they don't just stop at danganronpa either. they extend to the representation outside of that art, because both fanganronpas (and danganronpa) are impacted by media (and society) outside of danganronpa.

i don't know how to feel really. i don't always have criticism, all of my spaces (like this blog) is not built from my criticisms on fangans, i don't always feel the desire or need to attempt at spreading my criticism around with tags and all, i don't always desire or need to attempt at bringing significant impact with my criticisms. yet still, i partially feel unwelcomed in the fanganronpa community just for having criticisms sometimes, even towards things that really matter. seeing how my race and skintone is represented in both danganronpa & fangans AND how fans in both of their communities respond to that representation & people who voice their concerns of that respresentation have made me disillusioned to the concept of a total "positive" space that doesn't allow criticism for the sake of comforting those who might not even be affected by the representation that *needs* to be criticized.

i feel too complicated about the discussion. i also dont think this way of thinking towards criticism also gets to the root of those proclaimed fans of fanganronpas who express their nonconstructive criticisms in harshness—which is entitlement, at times unhealthy parasocial relationships with the creator, and wanting to feel "owed" by the creator that is so insanely common in fandoms. its not that theyre voicing or having criticisms in the first place, its how they voice it or have criticisms based on negative attitudes with no valid depth behind it (which may disregard the narrative for the sake of personal tastes). instead, this thinking towards criticism risk shutting down vaild criticisms and concerns about the harm fangans may perpetuate and how they can contribute to regressive representation of minorities.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

the problem with catradora is not that they are toxic. it's that the toxicity is heavily romanticized.

[ilynpilled]

i can fully understand the gripes with certain misogynistic tropes/writing issues that are present in the execution of some of cersei’s writing, but i will never understand the “she should have a redemption arc” or “she should be more likeable/less morally dark” perspective. that is not what her character is or has to be to make it great. wanting more female anti-heroes or “redemption arcs” with moral greyness and complexity of the level that asoiaf gives to primarily male characters is entirely understandable, but do some of you people even like cersei as a character, like at its core? like this is not about criticising the execution of certain things when it comes to this character, this is about taking issue with her as a villain fundamentally, which i just do not agree with at all

[the-far-bright-center]

I'm sorry but 'dying of a broken heart' =/= 'suicide' and it's actually pissing me off to keep seeing it stated as such.

[msfcatlover]

Putting both hands on your shoulders. Hey, listen. Sometimes, characters have tragic backstories. A lot of villains are victims. It’s reasonable to see that, and it’s good to acknowledge what made them the way they are. I completely understand wanting to give them a happier story, where they get the love & support they needed to live a healthier, more fulfilling life. Especially if you relate to their troubles, giving them an unhappy ending can feel like the author is condemning you for what you’ve gone through.

But—listen—I need you to understand: You are not the character. You can connect with them, relate with them, love them even, but you are not them. And a lot of the time, the thing that drives them to that unhappy ending isn’t actually the trauma they went through—it’s an inability to change. They don’t grow, they don’t get better, they don’t learn the thing the story is trying to say. And it sucks to see yourself in a character like that, but you are not the character, and you can change, learn, grow, and constantly be bettering yourself. Because humans have that capacity.

But also, the same way you cannot save someone who doesn’t want saving, it’s important to recognize that in fiction. Would this character want to change? Can they see anything wrong with their methods? Their goals? Because if the answer is no, while you can feel free to write happier AUs (I certainly do!) then they were never going to get ‘better’ in canon.

Because they don’t want to.

[giantkillerjack]

If media has taught me one thing, it's to never own a paperweight capable of causing traumatic brain injury.

My dad owned a heavy glass paperweight once that tapered into a sturdy sharp point on the top, and the fact that no one was murdered with this at all before his retirement from the lawfirm is the surest proof I have that this reality is in fact not fiction.

[angorwhosebabyisthis]

every time i see someone claim the ancients were a magical indigenous utopia to aspire to (with 'a few little problems'), and any criticism of them as a society is apologia for native genocide, i clutch my head in agony. never change, twitter

[lord-squiggletits]

Idk if my previous posts were unclear but I don't remotely hate any Optimus version that isn't IDW or think they suck. Every Optimus is good and there's a fan (or multiple fans!) of every version of OP no matter how obscure or underrated (as well as all the other characters).

What's more questionable (or at least annoying) is when fandom ignores canon character personalities in favor of writing specific archetypes that are either out of character or repetitive/stereotyped to the point of annoyance. As an example of this, it would be a female character being called the Team Mom just because she's a woman existing in a group of (primarily male) characters even if she's not remotely motherly or nurturing. Or, as a more topical example, how often I've seen Transformers ships where even though both characters are canonically masculine (or gender neutral), fanartists love to turn one of the characters small and weak (or even outright feminine) to turn the ship into Strong Dominant Seme and Sweet Cute Uke to fit a specific kink or romantic fantasy, even if it's a disservice/OOC to portray those characters like that.

In other words, a fandom's popularity of certain characters, ships, headcanons, etc is often more informed by tropes and forcing canon to adhere to one's personal tastes, as opposed to approaching canon and trying to understand it on its own terms. I'm not talking about the quality of the source material, but rather the way that the fandom interprets the source materials in ways that don't make any sense, approach it in bad faith, or just generally don't care about canon at all. So I'm not saying one OP is better than another, my problem is when fandom consistently focuses on certain stereotypes or flanderizations of a character, and then any character that doesn't fit the popular (often stereotyped) mold is ignored or virulently rejected. In other words, I think popular fandom often does a DISSERVICE to characters whether they love them or hate them, it just takes different forms.

So, just as an example, I think one fandom caricature of Optimus that I see a lot (and heavily dislike) is making Optimus some sort of shrinking wallflower type who's innocent, sweet, and virginal, in contrast to an opposite caricature of Megatron that's big, strong, dominant, and rugged, and making ship art that forces the characters into some kind of seme/uke or borderline heteronormative romance. Despite the fact that canon Optimus (in, say, TFP for example) is tall, broadly built, deep voiced, dignified, assertive, and strong (physically and morally), completely incorrect interpretations of him as a shy feminized uke type are still pretty common to find. And it makes you ask yourself why it is so many people make MOP ship art of them of The Small One and The Large One or The Small, Cute One and The Big, Violent One when it's completely different from canon. It feels as if such fanart is made by people who just want to see seme/uke style slash ships, and if canon doesn't give them what they want, they'll simply trash it and replace it with their own version, even if it's completely OOC.

So when I said in my other post that people don't like IDW Optimus because he can't be fit into caricatures like happy dad or shy twink, I'm not saying it to say "other OPs who resemble that suck," I'm saying it to express "Fandom tends to simplify characters into easily palatable and comfortable tropes, and when they encounter a character they can't do that with, they respond by ignoring or even hating on that character."

Other versions of Optimus have the problem where fandom turns them into a stereotype instead of the actual character they are, e.g. portraying TFA OP as some poor abused damsel with no self confidence and crippling anxiety being abused by his superiors, and then they talk more about this fake uwu smoll bean cinnamon roll version of TFA OP than they do about actual canon TFA OP. And honestly I can't think of any prominent content/meta about G1 OP that isn't just "he plays basketball and does funny one liners and is Team Dad/Grandpa." (Hell, you even get that with non-Optimus characters that get simplified to just sexy twink, old grandpa, comedy relief, evil ex, Diversity Win-- She's A Lesbian, third wheel to the favored ship, etc even though there's way more depth to them than just their surface level stereotype.)

IDW OP's problem is that he can't be stereotyped like that so instead the fandom ignores him. He's not small, so they can't stereotype him as a skinny twink getting topped by a burly uke. He's not jovial or happy go lucky or extroverted, so they can't stereotype him as Team Dad or Comedy Relief. He's assertive, blunt, and has a temper, so they can't stereotype him as a shy wallflower in need of protecting. He makes catastrophic mistakes and is responsible for bad things happening, so they can't stereotype him into a sweet cinnamon roll who has never done anything wrong in his whole life or The Infinitely Wise and Kind Paragon. There's no Big Bad Authority Figure who was mean to IDW OP and traumatized him, so they can't excuse the bad things he did as "he's traumatized so he couldn't help it" and wave away his flaws as "it's his abuser's fault, they made him this way." IDW OP has the kind of depression where he's grumpy, shut off, and angry-- as opposed to the shy, sad kind of depression that just stares forlornly out of the window in a beautifully tragic way-- so they can't make him into a sad woobie kicked around unfairly by life.

Or I guess they just stereotype IDW OP as "evil bastard with no redeeming qualities that's mean to everyone for no reason, plus the writers forced everyone to like him just because he's Optimus Prime" even though that isn't accurate either.

Put bluntly, IDW OP forces fandom to contend with the idea that someone can be a good person with good intentions but still fuck up on a massive scale and maybe end up hurting more than they helped. IDW OP is messy, ugly, flawed, mean, stoic, closed off. When IDW OP has mental breakdowns or has his feelings hurt, he's loud and angry and harsh, and the consequences of what he did while he was unwell continue to haunt him long after. In other words, he actually experiences negative emotions the way a real person would, and sometimes when he's under the influence of negative emotions, he lashes out or does stupid things (like a real person might) instead of inoffensively crying in a corner somewhere. He isn't sanitized enough for a fandom that only wants Perfect Pure Good Optimus Who Never Hurts Anyone Even By Accident, so instead of IDW OP's mistakes and dark moments being treated as the logical end point of a person put in constant no-win situations until he breaks, he gets treated as if his mistakes and flaws make him an irredeemable bastard with no good qualities who should've fucked up less often to make fans actually like him.

And this is all in a fandom where 90% of the characters are war criminals and a good half of them have massacred organic planets. But god forbid IDW Optimus ever make a bad decision in a stressful situation. Or be mean to someone. Or have a character arc about how blindly idolizing people as paragons ends badly for everyone involved because no one can be that perfect. He is simply The Worst Optimus Ever and there's absolutely nothing about him worth discussing.

And just to be clear, the problem isn't the fact that some people don't like IDW OP, or he's just not their thing and they don't care.

The problem is the fact that he's consistently and actively hated by the fanbase who makes a concentrated effort to say he sucks and make sure none of their fan works ever include him. It's literally at a level where I stopped looking in the Optimus tag on this website because I was tired of people randomly going "and btw IDW OP sucks and I want to drown him in a ditch" in posts that weren't even about IDW, and I stopped looking for MegOP fic on AO3 because most of it is IDW Megatron/clearly TFP or G1 inspired continuity soup Optimus. Places that are Optimus friendly for Optimus fans, where I could reasonably expect to find positive conversations, but instead get sucker punched by hate about the character The Space Is About. And I can't even have conversations asking about why they do, bc the way 90% of them talk, I can tell they literally just didn't read the comics or deliberately misinterpreted the story.

I find it bizarre and frankly, tragic, that the hate train for IDW OP is so pervasive that people actively erase and replace him from fan works IN THE IDW UNIVERSE in a way that no other character is targeted in. I have tried so hard to understand why IDW OP gets this sort of hate and erasure when other characters who were as bad or worse than him have perfectly normal takes about them that go "yeah he kinda sucks but he's cool and I like him" or "who cares if he's problematic IRL, it's a story." The only conclusion I can come to is that because Optimus Prime (TM) has a specific brand image and is locked into being a cultural icon, he's held to a standard of The Ideal Perfect Hero instead of the way better standard of "Is he an interesting, well written character?"

[forcedhesitation]

the end of wyll's quest is....interesting. it was VERY cool. I thought having the archetypal fairy tale prince go "slay the dragon" was a fitting ending, I just feel like it was....a little underwhelming in some ways.

more under cut

first and foremost- I wish that it was not possible for your tav/durge to converse with ansur. I wish that it automatically selected wyll, because I simply do not think that this entire scene has as much impact if it is not wyll at the forefront of everything. which is why I also have to complain about the emperor here.

the reveal that he is balduran is.... well. I knew about this already, through accidental spoilers. Initially, I thought it was a stupid reveal. but reframing the reveal in the context of a fairy tale...well it makes perfect sense. it just FEELS a bit underwhelming and strange, because your player character is not wyll. this entire area feels like it was written with an avatar wyll in mind. and I wish that there were changes made to the companion wyll version of the game that made up for this. wyll is a character who is hugely tied to the main plot by virtue of being the duke's son. he spends the game searching for his father, while trying to deal with both mizora and the absolute. mizora is the one he sold his soul to to save the city before, the reason he was cast out. the absolute wants to destroy and steal his city. and ansur, a legendary dragon, might be his way of saving the city and getting his father's approval back. ansur had wanted to kill balduran because balduran had been infected with a mindflayer parasite, but had embraced his illithid nature rather than rejected it. I feel like there's some parallel that can be made to wyll there. in that he was othered, like balduran was, because he accepted mizora's help. ansur condemned balduran because ansur is a bronze dragon and therefore lawful good. wyll's father exiles wyll because wyll was "at best a fool, at worst a traitor," in his father's eyes and his father tolerated neither. wyll & balduran are both victims of the inflexible nature those of lawful good alignments have. they are both seen as monsters for what happened to their bodies. I wish that was emphasised a little more. like autoselecting wyll for the ansur dialogue & giving him dialogue with the emperor would have made this ending feel a little more complete, in my opinion. and it would have better demonstrated the point of having the emperor even be balduran. because that's such a fairy tale thing, the stuff of real legend! for the hero's mysterious guide to actually be some great old hero thought to be long dead. and I do think it works. it just doesn't feel as impactful if wyll is not your avatar.

I also wish this area was overall bigger & more developed. I know they redid wyll's character from EA. I know they had less time. I just. I wish that this area was as detailed as the sharran temple in act 2. it feels like SUCH a big deal, it feels like it should be bigger. especially since at lvl 12, you're just. unkillable.

but the dialogue afterwards, where he says he's in the mood for celebration and wants to make a celebratory dinner? SO CUTE!!! that man's joy is contagious!!! I could practically feel him holding back how much he just wanted to jump around with joy. and the sweet little "let's hope gale won't be too upset that I'm cooking for once and not him." I love you. you are too fucking sweet wyll. this fucking city does not deserve you. this playerbase does not deserve you. you are a true gem and I wish people saw you are just as beautiful and interesting as astarion and gale.

a cool possible scene they could add, to given wyll's questline more material IS that dinner he talks about. or preparation for it! something where he asks tav/durge to taste the food beforehand? or where your avatar can ask him about where he learned to cook, prompting him to talk about his time as the blade of frontiers? out in the sword coast on his own? this scene could easily be platonic or romantic, but be given extra options for a romantic relationship. but something like this could truly be added at an earlier point in the game too, it doesn't have to be tied to this particular moment.

but overall really cool area of the game. very cool bossfight. and a rather clever ending to wyll's quest, contrary to what his haters say. I love the commitment to the fairy tale theme. it just needs a bit more. maybe it feels more satisfying if you've romanced him. although I've heard his act 3 romance scene is currently bugged? his unromanced questline is slightly bugged (doesn't rob you of any material, though, it just replayed some dialogue for me). either way, I hope that gets fixed asap. I so badly need to experience this romanced version in my other campaign.

[deadlyrival]

oh the queercoded villain is problematic representation? they play into homophobic and transmisogynistic stereotypes? that’s so crazy i can’t believe you’re the first person to ever realise this. pack it up everyone we all have to go home. can’t believe it turns out they’re not actually queer because the intention behind writing them like that was homophobia instead of making good proper representation for the community 💔 so you’re not allowed to read them that way anymore. yeah if you like them you’re homophobic too. sorry

[shoot-i-messed-up]

Now that I'm a fanfic writer, I can't help but wonder what kinds of narrative themes I must've been missing all these years of reading fanfics because I sure as hell know I can't write a fic without somehow stumbling across a theme and running with it

[langernameohnebedeutung]

Honestly, for me, one of the more ... uninspired and a little bit grating takes on problématique characters with sad backstories is: "well this other character experienced this and worse and they're not out there killing people!"

i mean, good for them, but I don't think we need a "best practice" approach to trauma

[rosykims]

i was so set on replaying veilguard for the davrinmance but oh my god im SO attached to my agent-of-fenharel hardingmancer rn i actually think the choice is out of my hands lol

[embright]

you guys just don't know how to write angst anymore. putting people who say they like "toxic yaoi" in my dni cause they have no idea how to actually write toxicity

[giantkillerjack]

The cool thing about a horror movie that takes place in a mental hospital and, shockingly, actually turns out to be on the side of mentally ill people is that it avoids all the common disgusting pitfalls of mocking, demonizing, and infantilizing mentally ill people.

The downside is

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

[It's much scarier.]