#transandrophobic

[me-and-the-devils-minion]

I can see how saying that a male public figure is "just a girl, yk", or "she's serving cunt" is going to stop many transmascs from going public with their content, thus causing great silencing of trans voices. All of this because your average queer says that transphobic bullshit all the time. Literally just respect a person's gender, it's not difficult. And there will be people that go like "Oh, I only say it to cis folks though" but like, how would you know??? You're saying yet once again that you can magically tell when a person is trans?? Are you stupid?? The rest of the LGBT+ community slows our progress down, that's the truth. They wanna backpedal on it, too, it seems.

[trans-androgyne]

I read too many stories of "women" throughout history who lived as men and wore men's clothing getting beaten and arrested for it, sensationalized in the press as "man-woman," painted as perverts and monsters, put in literal freakshows, and forcibly institutionalized to sit by quietly while non-transmascs loudly and confidently claim that "female masculinity" has never been targeted as much as "male femininity" has. Read some trans and queer history that isn't only about gay men and trans women before you open your mouths about butches and transmascs, or better yet just listen to us about our history and experiences in the first place.

[evillesbianvillain]

transracialism real under zionist thought

[sassquire]

have you escaped the cave?

[resdayn]

yet another parallel between ace discourse and transmasc discourse:

2017: "aces arent nearly as oppressed as lesbians so they dont need to be in the community! nobody is hatecrimed for being ace."

"2024: "trans men arent nearly as oppressed as trans women so they dont belong in the community! nobody gets mad at someone becoming more masculine."

Meanwhile, aces face the highest rates of conversion therapy among ALL queer people. Transmascs have the highest rates of suicide and sexual assault among all trans people. This will be true whether exclusionists like it or not. Oppression is not a competition. Anyone who acts like it is reveals their own fundamental misunderstanding of intersectionality and queer solidarity.

[discountprophet]

when you say “transandrophobia isnt real” you’re actively contributing the the silencing and oppression of trans men and mascs by trying to erase and minimize our lived experiences: our abuse, our struggles, our erasure by society AND the trans community, our denial of medial care, our much higher rates of corrective rape and sexual assault, our denial of resources for the higher sa we experience, and much much more

you arent trans men/mascs. you DONT get to decide if our oppression/experiences are real. you dont get to walk all over us and silence us. we will not be the quiet subservient girls you want us to be

[bougiebutchbitch]

okay but the whole 'anti transandrophobia' thing really confuses me because

we tried talking about how we as transmascs are not in fact transmisogyny exempt, because we face a lot of harrassment based on the fact that we are seen simultaneously as 'women', 'failed women', 'men' and 'failed men', and get depicted as aggressive and dangerous or weak and in need of infantalisation/protection depending on the situation by both cis and other trans people.

folks didn't like that. they thought this was somehow 'taking away' from trans women's oppression, rather than recognising that there are more similarities than differences between members of the trans community. plus, some of us were uncomfortable with the term 'transmisogyny' when applied to us because... well, we were basically misgendering ourselves with the term.

so we changed our terms! we used 'transandrophobia' instead to talk about specific transmasc experiences.

and now everyone's yelling that we're not allowed to do that because it somehow promotes the idea that cis women are oppressing cis men (?)

like just

what???

how are people wilfully misinterpreting this so badly? why are trans men not allowed to talk about their own experiences without constantly being shut down?

let transmasc people talk about their experiences in their own words without purposefully twisting everything they say and clutching at straws to demonise them. seriously. this is starting to become very.... scapegoaty??? and just, um, transphobic. transmen building their own communities and talking about how they have been mistreated by other people in the queer community (as well as by cis people, obvs) is not actually a threat to you or oppressing you in every way?

why do you feel threatened by this? could it be because you think trans men are inherently dangerous and violent? do you think that this is maybe a form of bigotry that you should work on, rather than taking it out on transmen?

[macrotiis]

I wanna rant a little bit about that last post coz like I have feelings about it.

Reproductive rights are a huge part of feminism, but it's really important that it ISNT "sex-based oppression" bc tying birthing ability to the universal experience of womanhood is actually REALLY FUCKING MISOGYNIST. Like you're rly gonna say that women incapable of having children experience less oppression than those who can?

The bioessentialist idea of "sex-based" oppression is heavily weighed on the idea of a cis woman capable of giving birth to children as the definition of woman as a sex & gender. It is a damaging social construct that harms all who are socially classed as women in some way, regardless of actual gender or actual sex.

Like you realise already that definition of womanhood excludes a huge amount of women? And that it is so untrue to these women's actual experiences of misogyny?

It misses how misogyny treats infertile women regardless of sex as being "broken" because they are unable to fit the social role of womanhood.

It's also just like incorrect to the wider experience of misogyny of women who can have children at certain points in their lives, bc girls & women aren't capable throughout their entire life of having children. But young girls still experience misogyny up until puberty & past that, & misogyny doesn't go away after menopause, in fact menopausal women are treated as undesirable or used goods because they aren't typically capable of having children anymore.

The bottom line to all this is that, there is no one single universal experience of womanhood as a social role beyond just being a woman & you cannot exclude trans women from the experience of misogyny. Misogyny isn't "sex-based", bc sex is socially constructed in a way that does exclude a lot of women.

I rly beg fellow transmasc's & trans men to go out & spend time with trans women, talk to them about misogyny & their experiences with misogyny.

You wouldn't have these weird ass ideas about misogyny if you branched out more & tried to relate to trans women & their experiences with misogyny. It would fix a lot of the misconceptions folks have about radfems, TERFs & transmisogyny. Ppl get too caught up on this idea that TERFs hate trans women for their supposed relation to men & maleness, which is actually deeply untrue because really the crux of TERF ideology & most transmisogyny IS misogyny. It's rooted deeply in trans women not neatly fitting into the box of cis perisex white abled womanhood, it's about trans women being the wrong kind of woman, which IS the universal experience of misogyny & womanhood that all women & those socially classed as women face.

The sooner you stop treating transmisogyny & TERFism as a symptom of hating men & actually about hating women, the better your understanding of these ideologies & the better your understanding of where trans women fit in social roles of womanhood AND of your own place as a trans man.

You should rly be open to relating to & talking with ppl about any experience of misogyny that is outside your own, be that from trans women, women of colour, disabled women, intersex women, ect, because there are facets of misogyny you haven't experienced that are important to talk about & recognize.

[fungaldeity]

from decolonising trans/gender 101 by b. binaohan. this one passage is such a clear articulation of what pisses me off abt the transunity “we’re all oppressed” shit that tmes try to pull every time a woman talks abt anything

[transmaverique]

amab and afab, if they were used as shorthand for the actual full phrases that they signify, with emphasis on the "assigned" part, and an understanding that they are enforcements of normative (ie, dyadic and cisgender and binary) sex, would be like. really useful. but people took the terms and started using them as shorthand FOR normative sex instead of the ENFORCEMENT OF normative sex. so when other trans people (almost always dyadic trans people) ask for your agab they are almost always asking for your Original Genital Situation. your starting point, so to say. and the reason FOR asking is also almost always bc they are trying to also enforce a certain kind of normativity within queer spaces (which is stupid bc being queer is inherently non-normative but here we are). like, you cant be a lesbian if you're ftm, bc you ARE m, so if you ARE a lesbian, then that means you're lying about some aspect of your identity. does that make sense?

it is always always always incredibly.... i do not trust dyadic trans people that use cagab terms, even moreso than i do not trust dyadic trans people that just use agab terms. agab is also coopted intersex language, but the "coercive" part of cagab SPECIFICALLY refers to medical "intervention" of intersex characteristics, such as "corrective" surgeries and hrt. i am deeply fucking suspicious of any dyadic trans person that uses those terms exactly the same as described above, even moreso if they do so bc "all gender is coercive".

like. yeah. that's true. but you use these terms to erase and overtake intersex discussions on the medical abuse of intersex infants. and i cant help but wonder why you would feel the need to do that.

[hazeofalterhumans]

Anyone know of a vriska only (kin fictive etc) discord server that doesn't allow radfems? Because. Uh. That was an issue I didn't expect to have.

Edit: The original post used the phrase Baeddel as that's what the users called themselves and is the radfem ideology they followed (Baeddelism). This post has been editted for both clarity and sensitivity, as, while Baeddel is the term for someone who follows Baeddelism, it has also been used as an insult or even as an intersexist and/or transphobic slur in some contexts and is thus both unclear as a label and unintentionally inflammatory.

[luxiomahariel]

its a little fucked up that we can all acknowledge that blaire white is transphobic and especially transmisogynistic but some of u trans men/mascs cant grasp that you can be transphobic and especially transandrophobic

no one is incapable of being bigoted just because they identify the same way as the target of their bigotry.

[sapphic-boy]

I feel like baeddels chose a slur for themselves so they can cry that the big meanie TMEs are calling them a slur when they get called out for spreading self-proclaimed baeddel rhetoric, like they're literally just hiding behind it.

[discountprophet]

we need to address the serious transandrophobia issue that is growing in the transfem community

its getting to the point where you cannot fucking exist as a trans man on this site without getting harrassed

and its not trolls on anon either, these are transfems blatantly being transandrophobic on main and irl proudly

[autistic-katara]

god i hate the amount of times i’ve seen a nice trans post that just had some slightly weird vibes so i look up “trans women/men” on their blog and oh my god all of it’s infighting

[bisexualfaggotry]

When binary trans people decide to use their binary privilege to throw nonbinary under the bus they are responsible for suffering lol

anon having a totally normal one in my inbox 🙄

trans men do not have any systemic power, we do not benefit from the patriarchy or gain any power from it, and the ability of individuals to punch laterally at other trans people doesn’t change that

i suppose you think binary trans women are privileged over other trans people because they punch laterally as much as trans guys do

no they’re not anymore privileged than any other trans person

and i’m saying this as a nonbinary transmasc lol