#toxic brodependence

[missjackil]

Imagine if Sam and Dean Behaved Like Normal Brothers

We can argue all we want about whether or not Sam and Dean’s toxic co-dependency is a good thing or not, but some things are for certain, the show would be boring, and neither brother would have lived past Season 2.  I dont think anyone thinks co-dependency is actually a good thing, but at least for this story, it’s necessary. Real life brother can be very close, and love each other deeply, but I have never met any that would give up their significant other for their brother, so if Sam and Dean were “normal” we could safely assume theyd both be married by now. Dean to Lisa because he wouldnt have bothered going back to hunting when Sam asked, and if he did, he would have ditched Sam when Lisa expressed how twisted and tangled their relationship was. This is all of course if they even managed to make it to S6 which I dont think they would. When Sam died in S2, Dean may have loved Sam enough to become suicidal when he died, but no way would he love him enough to sell his soul for one more year with him. If somehow they managed to make it though, Sam would have gone back to Amelia when she gave him the ultimatum. But more than likely, Sam would have gone back to school and not worried so much about leaving Dean alone to hunt by himself.  So best case scenario, we’d have a couple of realistic brothers, with wives, probably kids, talking on the phone to each other maybe once a week, getting together to watch sports once in a while when they didnt have to do something with their families. If either of them, or both remained hunters, they’d be dead in no time with no one willing to go beyond the call of duty to keep the other alive.  This is the toxic part of the co-dependence, when either of them get self destructive, or world destructive to save the other. They dont demonstrate this level of love for anyone else on the show, not their Dad, Bobby, Cas, or anyone. When these people died, the brothers were very sad, but they just let them go. “Let the dead stay dead” has applied to everyone else in their lives except each other.  So, what makes these two so co dependent that they just cant fathom the idea of living without the other? I don’t think the show ever explained it well enough beyond showing us they could only depend on each other growing up, and throwing in that they’re soulmates. This sheds light on it, yes, but still doesn’t explain it. Both things could be true for real life brothers, and it would probably mean they are closer than normal brothers, but still not be Winchester level of closeness. It may or may never be explained, but it will always be a big question for me. When Season 11 rolled around and Sam gave that speech in the Hospital that they need to stop breaking the world to save each other because  they’ve forgotten they’re supposed to be saving people, not just each other (paraphrased) I thought maybe they would stop their toxic co dependence and act like real brothers, and they kind of did for a while, they got along better, had some fun together, but then Sam was willing to let Lucifer/cas touch his soul to get enough power to bring Dean back, which could very likely have killed him. And then there was Red Meat, where Dean though Sam was dead and his first response was to let the werewolves come and fight them to the death... when he was talked out of it, he decided saving Sam was the only important thing in the world and he ODed to try to make it happen. Whether he died or not, he was determined to save Sam. Meanwhile, Sam isnt dead but he’s gut shot and bleeding profusely, in a shit ton of pain. Sure he could have stayed there and waited for Dean, Dean comes back for him, thats just how it is, and he can fight off a couple of left over werewolves and just tend to himself, but no, Dean is in danger because Corbin is a werewolf. Did Sam trust that Dean could handle Corbin alone? Nope, he needed him, or at least needed to know. When Sam wasnt sure Dean heard him say Corbin is a werewolf, Sam risked his life to go help Dean, and shot the bad guy himself. So yeah, neither have learned yet to drop the self destructiveness. Come the end of S11, Sam does, very reluctantly, let Dean go alone to face, and try to kill Amara, which would kill him in the process. For a moment I think this OOC for Sam, until he gets home and Toni is waiting there with her gun drawn. What does Sam do? Not the normal Sam thing to draw his gun, tell her to drop hers, and either take over the situation or shoot her, he almost draws his gun but doesnt, no, he believes Dean is dead, he has no shits to give anymore, so he approaches this woman, bare handed  taunting her to fire “we both know you’re not gonna pull the trigger” Sam’s just ready to die. Thats all.  Season 12 comes. Theres no real self destructive behavior between them, in fact Dean seems a little less than hellbent to find Sam, is it because now his mother’s back and he has something/someone else to live for? Maybe, but now that makes me sad, but fast forward to First Blood, and we’re back to self destructive. Both brothers make a blood pact to guarantee that at least one of them lives. Both think they’ll be the one to die for the other. but fortunately, that doesnt come to pass. Then only 2 episodes later, Sam is risking his life by going into the home of powerful witches, alone, to try to save Dean’s life,  when he gets captured, Dean, who up till now has forgotten everyone in his life, even his own name, still remembers Sam. Dean makes it into the house, no longer remembering how to speak, he doesn’t seem to recognize Sam by sight, but completely remembers “Brother” and kills the witch.  If that wasnt enough to show us they are still toxicaly co-dependent, in Who We Are, when trapped in the bunker with maybe a day left to live before they suffocate, one last self destructive move was made. The grenade launcher. These boys where not just willing, but were happy at the idea that if they didnt get out together, they’d GO out together! The looks on their faces was priceless wasnt it? So much love, pride and excitement in the idea of making it out together, or dying together! So, Ill go on record to say that yes, toxic co-dependency is bad, and I dont recommend it, but in the case of the Winchesters, it’s not only wonderful, but 100% necessary to make the show as good as it is. 

(sorry for long post, I couldnt get “keep reading” to not go to the bottom of the page)

[mpregemiledurkheim]

watching the end of season 10 was supposed to make me hate dean again not turn me into a brodependency enjoyer :/

[dimples-of-discontent]

I recently rewatched the episode where Dean has to convince Sam to let Ezekiel/Gadreel in, to say yes. Gadreel says to Dean “he won’t say yes to me but he will to you.” Next we see Dean convincing Sam to live. This is where he says “there ain’t no me if there ain’t no you”... but upon rewatching- was that actually Dean speaking or was it Gadreel appearing to Sam as Dean? As soon as Sam says yes, Dean turns into Gadreel. So was that speech to Sam actually Dean or Gadreel pretending to be Dean?

Hey friend! You have hit upon a moment that is known to be contentious in the community for its bronly/Wincest vibes. I want to say first that I am happy to let people ship and let ship and if you are in that camp of people but you’re just off in your own spaces, being happy about it and not attacking or bothering anyone else, I have no problem with it and you can go on doing you. I also know not everyone feels this way, but I wanted to make it clear that I’m not condemning shipping, even of a ship I personally find off-putting, but that I’m interpreting what I see as canon here.It’s clear to me that it was absolutely Gadreel looking like Dean who said that. It has to be, because for Gadreel to possess Sam, Sam has to yes to Gadreel. Angel possession cannot work on someone else’s behalf, i.e. Dean can no more be a proxy for Gadreel than he can for Sam (and we are told he can’t consent for Sam). Angel possession is a contract between vessel and angel and it can be revoked; this element of consent is crucial to angel possession vs. demon possession. Although we see here, and have seen numerous other times, that what is technically consent can result from coercive or manipulative tactics (e.g. Zachariah giving Sam stomach cancer). So for the possession to happen it must be Gadreel in this scene and not Dean.

It’s also clear that it isn’t Dean from the way in which the figure morphs into Gadreel as he puts his had on Sam’s shoulder and takes possession of him. (Watch it here if you want.) What’s more, as you said in your ask, the conversation Dean and Gadreel have before he goes into Sam’s head makes it clear that Gadreel will use Dean as a disguise because Dean is aware that it’s the only way to get Sam to say yes. 

Would Dean have said that line anyway? That’s a more complicated question. I have never been more upset with Dean than when he stopped Sam from closing the gates of Hell in “Sacrifice.” I mean that from an emotional perspective since, structurally and for the story, I can see some of the motivation and the benefits of the decision. This isn’t meta it’s my personal emotional response. Disregarding Sam’s free will like that really got to me for a number of reasons and this episode really just continues that betrayal by tricking Sam and literally letting the enemy in the door. Yes, there’s the rhetoric of why, but the fact is that Sam was ready to die in 8x23 but Dean wasn’t ready to let Sam die. When we talk about “toxic codependency” (or even “brodependency”) this is what I always come back to. Sam should absolutely have been allowed to choose death, both in the church and in the scene in his own head where Gadreel takes over.

Dean was still very, very much in the throes of codependency at the point of 9x01 and so, sadly, even though it’s Gadreel who says that line I have to admit that I think it would have been in character for Dean to say too. It seems like Gadreel is borrowing Dean’s memories (he knew what Dean said to Sam in the church even though he wasn’t there) so maybe he’s able to see inside Dean’s mind and borrow his thoughts and fears as well. Essentially, Gadreel functions as an externalization of Dean’s dependency: possessing Sam without his consent and directing his actions, sending away the other person in the world Dean cares the most for (Cas, in case that wasn’t clear) and isolating them as a unit, holding Sam hostage and ultimately using him to murder their friend and undermine their own relationship. That’s just a mini-reading and I should probably write it more fully, but I think that’s already a longer answer to your question than maybe you wanted so I will stop here. Thanks for bringing back S9, which I adore…always fun to talk about it!

[incarnateirony]

Nodependency

This is sort of a gloss-over condensed-packet to make a point; lots of authors have covered these episodes independently, but I’m more trying to waterfall drill home a point.

I’m watching every author on the show independently take a chisel or sometimes just a deadass icepick or hammer to the toxic codependency this season every single episode.

By episode 5, Dean could not continue to live with only Sam around; he loved Sam, Sam was still in his thoughts, but not enough to continue their toxic relationship until he got his win. And by episode 6, he was beaming again.

Buckleming are rarely masters of the art, but even they made a point to show Dean outwardly engaging Castiel to the point of question and concern in episode 7, rather than focusing purely inward.

Episode 8 was largely a filler, but still functioned the Winchesters largely independently on their respective ends of a mission. Episode 9 was climactic lead in to 10 that barely featured them, but all focused purely on the extension of other family. Episode 11 continued the Wayward roll and tied us off with the differences of focus - Dean’s completion in his current win despite still pursuing Mary versus Sam’s losses, and the flip of their general receptiveness. 

12 took it a step further flagrantly mocking the codependency with the witches as an offset of “why this is bad.” 13 gave us a full reunion and apologetics across the board while reaching across lanes between the parties to rebuild strained relationships.

14 gave us more independent patterning of their case handling through the entire episode. 15 was wholy brotherly but not codependent, instead focusing on healthy healing and hope from beyond.

16 is kinda a nonsequitor in development, just fun, but did have lessons about letting go.

17 mutually handled the effect of lovers separated across worlds, but also the potential toxicity of binding forces. Yes, Dean goes on a rampage to get Sam back - but all things in order guys. /And/ an element we get in 13x21 is missing. This is the plot breaking Dean in on a decision. In fact, cages and bindings and shackles just kind of resonate through EVERYTHING.

By 18, we’re in BuckLeming territory again but even they plink at the individualism, if rawly. Dean continues to show independent parental mode without the need to stay immediately vortexed around Sam and Sam is encouraged on other tasks. The end result is the agreement to all work together. ALL of them.

At 19, the fandom is met with letting go. And the near-death of Sam, which starts becoming a recurring theme.

20? Everyone over-reacted to the final line and I kept enforcing, that’s not what that was - not what that was at all. Dean spends the entire episode disagreeing with Sam’s processes, revenge kicks and everything else, and doesn’t even - be it verbally OR physically - concur with Sam’s final line, instead pushing him further into individual protection mode.

And then in 21 we get hit with a hard truth. I mentioned it here in an appended reblog to someone else’s commentary. Unlike 13x17, Castiel was there to be Dean’s grounding force and prevent the impulsive codependent dumbs that would have sank everything. 

To repeat that post:

We get to see Dean literally processing that Sam IS exsanguinating. Dean is a warrior. The horror was already on his face. He knew what that moment meant. Due to the type of wound, Sam was likely dead or unconscious-just-before-death before even hitting the tunnel just due to basic anatomy. They’re hunters. They’re soldiers. They know these things.

When Dean ran towards the tunnel to “get Sam,” he wasn’t thinking with his head. He WAS thinking with his heart. It’s not that Sam didn’t matter, it’s that he was working outside of his better mind. The codependency issue almost kicked in, but Castiel stepped in as Dean’s grounding rope, after already assessing the situation. He saved Dean from himself, in what would have been a fight of futility - likely not just Dean dying, but the fact that Bobo VERY WISELY assigned them two relative innocents to take care of that would be lost in this mess.

At one point, while Sam and Dean were still codependent in early seasons, Dean thought bigger pictures. You know what’s real? People. Families. That’s real. Saving people.

There was literally no good to be gained in vanishing down that tunnel. Castiel, an important anchor in Dean’s life and fellow warrior stopped him from his impulsive reaction long enough to click into warrior’s mind. They had innocents to see off, the need to replan. The need to find Mary, Jack, and anyone else. Hell, silent implications that may even be there; maybe Jack could even bring Sam back. But there was nothing to be gained in charging that tunnel and everything to be lost.

We see here that Castiel serves as the grounding mechanism to put Dean back in his own mind, something we witnessed him without in early season 13. Dean intended to go back and Castiel no doubt knew that, but they could go back prepared, and maybe even with options to get Sam back, long term, rather than just some vainglorious “and everybody dies because, I don’t know, bronly fanfiction romance tropes.”

And that’s not even MINDING the episode opening with Sam’s vision of a perfect life being Sam, Dean, Cas, Mary, and Jack having fun; Sam focusing on his mother, and Cas wife-ing at Dean over how much pizza he’s ingesting while Jack, the new addition, watches on charmed.

This season has gone legitimately out of its way to break in again and again that while there’s always that survival reactionism in them due to years together, there is something beyond that, and they actually NEED to think beyond that to continue to be successful, much less what they outright WANT, such as Sam’s dream. 

Sam doesn’t want to live alone with Dean.

Dean doesn’t want to live alone with Sam.

They both want something more, and right now, Dean has his something more with Cas.

While I’m not a Mary fan, the show is increasingly painting her to be Sam’s Something More, though I hope better anchoring with Jack too. And no, that’s not a romantic suggestion because I am not a crazy incest nut, but Sam just needs... more. He WANTS more, he CRAVES more. 

I once again hold, as I did in my 13x20 mini meta, that this season is going to end with Dean making a choice to let go for /everyone/. They’ve been beating that into us again and again. No matter who is the Immediate Focal Point Of The Moment (Sam, Cas), the ultimate venture is in the interest of full family and realizing that dream Sam had, even if Dean doesn’t see himself able to be in it. Or maybe he’ll know he’ll come back - because he has Faith.

[the-faerie-circle]

i want both sam and dean to have someone besides each other. it's one of the saddest (and least addressed) aspects of the show, imo. i love my brother, he's awesome, but i couldn't imagine how much we would end up hating and resenting each other if we had to live together AND work together AND share a car AND have basically no other friends or family.. we'd be at each others throats within weeks. i want sam and dean to have cas, their mom, bobby, charlie, kevin, eileen, garth.. a dog.. MINIMUM.

yep

and dean agrees

him and sam alone is not enough, its not good enough

they need more.

more friends, more family.

they cannot be happy with just each other

[destiel-sucks-i-know-that-now]

I love watching Destiel hellers bargain over the years

Season 5: Destihellers - Fire Jared and turn Supernatural into the Dean and Cas show.  Make Destiel canon, totally change the show for us do it now!

*Sam saves the world and Supernatural continues to be about Sam n Dean*

Season 6: Destihellers - Oh wait, we actually love Sam so don’t fire Jared but instead make Sam the Destiel cheerleader in the Dean and Cas show!

*Cas does most of his shit off screen, meanwhile Dean temporarily dies to get his Sammy back*

Season 7: Destihellers - Dean needs to go crazy with grief and sell his own soul to bring back Cas!”

*Dean never grieves and never mentions Cas again, meanwhile he’s totally focus on on Sam while grieving over Bobby’s death.*

Season 8: Destihellers - okay fine, Supernatural is about Dean AND Sam, but it doesn’t mean Dean can’t also love Cas equally as he loves Sam.

*Dean puts nothing before Sam before accidentally marrying Sam in a church*

Season 9: Destihellers - Look, the brodependecy thing is toxic, the boys need friends outside of eachother.  Dean needs to be with Cas more to have a healthier outlook.

*Dean kicks a human Cas out into the streets without care, money, protection, or shelter*

Season 10: Destihellers - Come on if you make Destiel canon NOTHING on the show has to change!

*Cas has separate story lines and Dean and Cas grow increasingly irrelevant from eachother*

Season 11: Destihellers - I don’t want Destiel to be canon anymore, I just want Dean to be nice to Cas again.

*Dean tells Cas he’s like a brother to them and their best friend*

Destiehellers - How dare Dean no-homo friendzoned Cas!!!  

Season 12: Destihellers - Destiel is gonna be canon this season I can feel it..

*Cas betrays the WInchesters and chooses the Devil’s fetus over them and then dies because reason*

Season 13: Destihellers - Brodependency is gonna be broken this season I can feel it.  Dean will say “I love you” to Cas when he comes back and then they’ll be Jack’s two dads.

*Sam is the father figure to Jack who tells Sam “I love you” while Dean obsessed over how to keep Sammy alive*

Season 14: Destihellers - “Turning point!”

*Dean tells Cas “you’re dead to me”, blames Cas for Jack’s murder of Mary.*

Season 15: Destiehellers - The penultimate episode was Bribo centric so they’ll make the finale a Destiel episode because it’s not a marketing genius feat to have two Bibro episodes in the row.

Dean to Sam: It’s always been you and me.  I’m not leaving you.  I love you so much, my baby brother”  *forehead tap of deep familial love*

Destihellers - THEY FUCKING CANONIZIED INCEST THOSE BASTARDS!!!

Post-season 15: Destiehellers - soooooo to prove we haven’t hated on Sam for the past 12 years, we’re going to marry Sam to the female he has the least chemistry with in the most non-consenual relationship he ever had.

SPN fandom: Destiel DNI

[naruhearts]

Sam was unquestionably there at some point during the ordeal that ended with Cas in the Ma'lak box, but Dean still said "when I buried him" which is unusual use of the singular for him, so clearly intentional. It's the widow's "When I buried your father" to her children. The children were likely there, but the phrase implies intimacy. Anyway, I AM DEAD AND BURIED AFTER THAT THANKS BOBO

EXCUSE ME NONNIE SHUSH

There was a blatant callback in tone, depressive/grief dialogue - everything - to Cas’ previous deaths, 13x03 in particular: 

And as you said, YES, we’re all aware that TPTB built up pertinent meanings behind the singular vs plural.

Channeling 12x23!Dean wrapping Cas in yellow-sun-oriented drapes alone, Dean buried Cas alone – in a MA’LAK BOX, ONE OF WHICH HE ORIGINALLY BUILT FOR HIMSELF (I also found this small yet significant detail CRAZY-angsty because the on-the-nose symbolism of Dean burying his soul, burying his deeply rooted romantic love for Cas, locking them away, since he both A. lost his chance to further their mending relationship and B. lost his will to FIGHT, to LIVE, without Cas by his side – Cas, oh Cas, who purposefully and WILLINGLY took on the MoC that afflicted Dean, blackened Dean’s radiant soul, and poisoned Dean against him, Dean’s Colette – was meaningful on its own and like…obvious to me. I yelled and died and yelled again, friends. Sam was literally given repeat insight re: the exact nature of his brother’s bond with Cas and, orchestrated visions or not, Sam couldn’t bear seeing where it led –> a crappy-ass, cheap gag unhappy ending where Sam and Dean can’t have what - WHO - they love (the ‘if the brodependency continues’ strongly stated by Emotive Berens). GOING OUT LIKE BUTCH AND SUNDANCE SUCKS, SAM! IT’S THE WORST ENDING! THIS SHOW NO LONGER HOLDS THE BACKWARDS ESSENCE OF YOU AND YOUR BROTHER AS TOXIC-CODEPENDENT ENTITIES, BUT CHUCK, the ultimate Bibro, WANTS IT). Bobo then recapitulated the romantic parallels of Sam/Eileen vs Dean/Cas, with grieving!Dean pointing out Sam’s loss of Eileen) - it doesn’t get any more intimate than this.

I MEAN I have SO MUCH MORE TO SAY sorry I ended up rambling BUT IT’S LATE SO FOR NOW POINT IS–

15x09 was a self-directed plethora of singular ‘I’. Only Dean, and Dean alone, expressed the paramount importance of Cas in his life. He wasn’t using Plural ‘We’ as the shield to his feelings any longer. He took a GIGANTIC INTERNAL LEAP FORWARD.

It was made explicit that without Cas, after everything, Dean becomes an empty, hollow shell of himself. 

[lol-jackles]

The 100 is an ensemble show, so your anon can't compare it to SPN. Not that the 100 fandom doesn't have its share of toxic morons. Seems ur anon is just noy as invested in the 100. Btw it really is an awesome show. I'm glad I saw some episodes by mistake. I would never have gone for a space future earth ahow on my own amd I would've missed so MUCH. Anyway Mulder and Scully is closer to SPN, albeit minus the deliciously dysfunctionally obsessive soulmate thing, which is why I watch SPN.

Supernatural was originally advertised as The Hardy Boys meet X Files.  Kids, if you can find the pilot trailer please send it my way, I want to see if it’s as dramatically funny as I remember it.

Internet shippers aside, Mulder and Scully were the last great "they don't need to romantically involved to be awesome" duo.... until Carter threw in that pregnancy.  And then he took it back because ...he always meant to take it back all along and he didn’t care if fans never knew “the truth”.  Kids, remember what I’ve kept saying that writers make up shit as they go?  Yeah.

What Sam and Dean got going is so much better than what Carter kept cooking up and throwing away: consistent brodependency that gets tested and stretched but never broken or taken back by writers because unlike what some of you may think, they don’t pander to the internet shippers.

[dotthings]

Wow there’s a massive amount of bullshit on my meta post about Sam and Dean and character development because as usual the brosonly lane doesn’t understand what fiction is and apparently it’s super wrong to want any growth or character development for them. That the only thing that makes them extraordinary is the extreme dysfunctionality and the toxic aspects of their bond. If a brodependency stan insists the codependency is all, then that’s valid, but if anyone else gives any opinion whatsoever then that’s just self-indulgently imposing needs, or something. Because goodness, there’s nothing whatsoever self-indulgent about being virulently anti-character development and insisting that the bro bond is 100% defined by its toxic aspects and codependency, instead of them being, y’know, layered characters capable of insight and self-awareness and their bond based on love and loyalty.

Good to know I can’t actually share a 100% in-good-faith positive set of thoughts about Sam and Dean and their bond, which is important to me as much as to anyone is the extreme brodependency lane, without the brosonly stans jumping on it and completely missing the point on every level. Since the main instigator has been an utter jackass on more than one occasion, I’m just going to block them now rather than argue. I absolutely will not allow that bunch to rain on my bro bond parade.

And from now on I won’t be tagging my unique posts about Sam and Dean’s bond onto “Sam and Dean”--I’ll create my own tag. My meta isn’t for you, brosonlies. It’s for the part of the fandom that understands why character development is part of fiction and who love the bro bond without burning everything else to the ground for it.

[missjackil]

So why are you always stanning Dabb? He all but ruined the show and the finale. I just don't understand why you're always deffending him?? He dgaf about Sam and Dean just his precious side characters. But hey, to each his own I guess.

Hi Nonnie! I want you and everyone to understand that I don’t actually “stan” Dabb. I don’t deny that the Dabb era is my favorite era, I also don’t deny that he’s had some really dumb screw-ups. However, I always feel the need to defend him because just about everywhere he’s goofed, has already been done by the other showrunners. I also lived through the summer before season 12, when he took over, on Tumblr, listening to most of the fandom talk him down before he had done anything, and I feel like most of the discourse is because none of you want to admit that you never really gave him a chance! 

This will be long so if anyone wants to hear my explanation, click away

It started out with whining and moaning that Andrew Dabb’s assistant is a rabid Destiel shipper. So much so that she had 2 books published on the subject. The Hellers were beaming with joy because surely he would make Destiel canon, and they also claimed he hated the “toxic brodependency” and was going to break it down. They claimed that Dabb believed that the side characters were just as important to the show as Sam and Dean are and he would bring about an ensemble cast. Normally, the anti-destiel crowd would write all this off as a heller delusion, but because Dabb’s assistant actually IS a Heller herself, they believed the claims.

To be honest I did too! I was new to the fandom and didn’t care who was running the show or when, so when I saw y’all losing your shit over the regime change, I assumed it was warranted and dreaded season 12 too. I picked apart everything in every episode and bitched along with everyone else until about halfway through when I realized that there was actually some really good stuff happening. 

Of course, there were negatives, every season under every showrunner has had them and Dabb wasn’t guilty of anything new. Yes, there was forgotten canon, but Kripke was forgetting canon before the end of s1 with less than 22 episodes to think back on. Remember when they could detect a demon by saying “Chrstos”? How about Dean saying Baby is manual transmission but she’s actually automatic? Was Sam at Stanford for 4 or 2 years? And that’s just season 1! 

Everyone griped that Dean wasn’t frantic enough in finding Sam when the Britts kidnapped him, yet, he wasn’t frantic when Sam was abducted by Vetala for 3 days and was busy being buddies with a teenage girl in s7. 

Everyone bitched that Dabb was paying too much attention to side characters when it was actually J2 who wanted more time off with their families and the only way to remedy that was to give more time to side characters, which actually began in s8 under Carver, but you tell me why Gamble felt like Bobby’s story needed 9 episodes in s7 and Sam’s mental breakdown only needed 4 episodes? Or why Cass needed his own story with the angels in s9 or Crowley and Rowena needed their own story in s10? At least all the side stories in the Dabb era directly affected Sam and Dean. 

“Dabb wants to breakdown the toxic brodependancy!!” Well wait, you mean Sam and Dean had this beautiful, trusting, ride-or-die relationship before then? Seriously, they did nothing but betray, lie, and leave each other for the first 10 seasons! Had Dean not given the “nothing past or present I would put in front of you” speech in Sacrifice, I wouldn't have believed Sam was #1 to him anymore since s4! Remember it was Gamble who had Dean choosing  Cass to fight alongside him instead of Sam at the end of S7 with the “Id rather have you” speech, and who was it that had Dean actually telling Cass he loves him in s8 before Jensen said “yeah no... not gonna do that” if anyone would have made Destiel canon it would have been Gamble or Carver. 

Sure Dabb broke the toxic brodepency... he made it much less toxic! Sam and Dean stopped betraying and leaving each other, their lying to each other almost stopped but when they did, they fessed up to it before the other found out on their own and flipped out. They learned to trust each other and depend on each other for everything and to me, that's much more valuable than anything provided in the seasons before. 

So when it appears that I stan Dabb, it’s not that I don't realize there were serious screw-ups in his era, but because the brother’s relationship was 100 times better than previous seasons. 

[charlie-minion]

What are your thoughts on how the show handled the toxic brodependency this season?

Hello,dear! I’m so sorry it took me forever to answer this ask, but I’m currentlywriting my master’s thesis and that has proved more time-consuming than Ithought it would be.

I thinkthere’s still some level of brodependency between Dean and Sam, but they’re getting rid ofit a little more every year. 

This season proved that having Sam alive and wellis not enough for Dean anymore. The first 5 episodes showed that Dean reached avery low point and it had zero to do with Sam. If we want to ignore the Destielsubtext, we could say that Dean’s low had to do with loss in general (Cas,Mary, and even Crowley).

However,that way of thinking negates the existence of canon. For example, in 13x06 Deandid a 180 re: his mood and behavior, and the only variable that changed wasthat Cas came back. And in 13x11, Dean tried to be there for his brother, thesame way Sam had been there for him (unsuccessfully) in episode 5.

In that ep,they had already lost Jack and knew that Mary was alive and possibly interrible danger. Dean himself said that he thought about them all the time,too, but he told Sam not to let that eat him up and compared Sam’s mopping towhat he himself had been feeling before (When exactly? When Castiel was dead!). 

Any way you choose to interpret it, with or without Destiel, Dean needs morethan his brother to keep going and that was an interesting thing the first halfof season 13 gave us. The second half, on the other hand, was about Dean facing his worst failure and succeeding this time. 

Dean hadsome sort of closure last season when he faced Mary and admitted that it wasn’tfair he had to be Sam’s parent. That doesn’t mean he stopped loving his littlebrother or that he will ever stop trying to protect him, but it does mean that he’s somehow learned hecan still live without Sam (not that he’d like to, but that he could if thatcame to pass). To be sureof that, though, Dean had to experience it firsthand. 

There were a few epswhere his life mission to keep Sammy safe got triggered. At the end of 13x20,for instance, Sam talked to Dean about it and said that Dean was treating himlike he deserved to be at the kid’s table. (Meaning:You’re treating me like your child again, not like your brother, your equal).

What wasDean’s answer?

Deanfurther explained that the last time they had to face Lucifer and Michael, Samhad died and gone to hell. Do you remember when was the last time Dean mentioned that?Precisely the time he faced Mary in 12x22.

“And I… Ihad to be… more than just a brother. I had to be a father and I had to be amother, to keep him safe. And that wasn’t fair. And I couldn’t do it. And youwanna know what that was like? They killed the girl that he loved. Hegot possessed by Lucifer. They tortured him in Hell. And he lost his soul.His soul.”

Deanadmitted that he failed in keeping Sam safe last season when talking to Mary.The failure he mentioned happened during the apocalypse, so it’s not toofarfetched to think that Dean’s fear of failing again got triggered becausethey were about to face another apocalypse.  

His failureback then was so present to Dean that he repeated the words he’s always toldhimself: 

“I don’t care what happens to me. I never really have. But I do care what happens to my brother.”

Sam, ofcourse, was not ready to accept Dean’s parent-child dynamic with him. He wantedthem to deal with stuff together and save their family together, even dietogether if that was what it took, but he didn’t want to be treated like a littleboy; he wanted to be treated like an equal, like someone who could make his owndecisions and risk his life just as much as Dean felt he had to.

In thiscontext episode 13x21 happened and it was shocking to a lot of people (meincluded). We’ve learned to expect Dean to give up his life for Sam, no matterwhat, mostly after a speech like the one he gave in ep 20. So, thefact that Sam died in ep 21 and that Dean had to leave Sam behind (howeverpainful it was to him) was exactly to prove that he’s CAN keep living without hisbrother.

Think of it this way:

What wouldyou do if a beloved sibling died? Would it hurt? I’m sure it would; you wouldgrieve a lot and cry, and you would find a way to go back and retrieve theirbody (if your were in Dean’s situation).

But would you kill yourself to bring them back?

There’s abig difference between loving someone with all your heart and grieving theirloss and being unable to keep living because you feel your life has NO VALUEwhatsoever without the other person.

There wasan interesting moment between Dean and Mary when she asked about Sam and Deansaid nothing. There was the mother, Sam’s mother, the one whoshould be responsible for keeping Sam safe, not Dean.

Sam’s temporarydeath in ep 21 served a very interesting purpose in Dean’s story arc.

Now, whathappened in 13x23 re: Dean saying yes to Michael has many reasons. Dean was motivatedto save the world, to save Jack, and to save Sam, but I honestly think therewas another big motivating factor: Dean wanted to kill Lucifer.

He got possessed byLucifer. They tortured him in Hell. And he lost his soul.

Dean’sbiggest failure in protecting Sam was thanks to Lucifer. Everything startedwith Mary and her deal, but Dean faced that in season 12. Besides, theapocalyptic world in season 13 was there to prove that whether Mary made thedeal or not, Lucifer and Michael were gonna bring the apocalypse one way or theother. In the end, Mary was just a victim, too. The real evil were the archangels;the real threat to his brother was Lucifer.

Dean wouldhave said yes to Michael a thousand times if it meant to get this smile ofrelief from his little brother:

I think season 13closed the cycle for Dean. He fixed what he considered to be his worst failure,so now he’s done protecting Sammy like a child.  

Season 14 will hopefully give Sam the chance for closure, too. 

[dimples-of-discontent]

<Really enjoys episode of the week>

<Resents heftiness of hints about DEALS and DEAN BEING IMPULSIVE and DEAN ACTING TO PROTECT OTHERS and DEAN AND HIS DAD FEELS>

<Worries that whole Michael possession arc will actually be about Sam even though that would make literally no sense given progress since S10 especially last finale and how this season opened but they have done weirder shit y’all>

<Wonders how they could possibly at this point regard the Michael possession as either “surprising” or “impulsive” given heaviness of foreshadowing and hopes fervently that there’s something else impulsive going on because then this would all have been awesome misdirection>

<Decides to believe last point and cross fingers and trust Dabb>

[mittensmorgul]

that was a huge step back tho, bringing back the toxic brodependence back at full force in a gross attempt to romanticize it, truly terrible

But... it never stopped? and they’re not romanticizing it here? they’re literally pointing out how gross it is?

[tinkdw]

The opening "then" of Bad Boys:

"Take your brother outside as fast as you can.” “I was a kid allright!” “Most importantly? Watch out for Sammy.” “Watching out for you, it's kinda who I am.” “Don't you dare think there's anything that I would put in front of you.” “There ain't no me if there ain't no you."

The subsequent exposition of the episode, where Dean is actually asked in a calm and loving environment what HE wants from life...where he tells us. He gets a glimpse of a happy life in a caring environment with a future open to him. Sonny is willing to stick his neck out for him, Robin wants him to stay, these are the things that have been set up over 9 years as missing from Dean’s life and things he craves. 

Then in the end we see Dean choosing Sam over himself, all framed in sadness and loss, to go back to what was and continued to be a terrible life with a neglectful John who let him "rot" in what he thought was a bad place, letting go of a great opportunity for a brighter future with Sonny and a lovely girlfriend.... all because of his feeling of responsibility for Sammy (but it's not Sam's fault of course! He thanks him, he cares about how hard it was on Dean, it just was).

On top of this is the set up for this feeling of responsibility and his own worthlessness so negatively and toxically as a whole in the season leading to the Mark of Cain... it's impossible NOT to think that Dean putting Sam before himself his whole life was extremely damaging and led to his repression of accepting that he deserves good things for himself.

It’s an exposition in just 1 episode for the whole season’s (and the show overall for Dean) core plot line, exposing the toxic parts of their codependency as negative and damaging. 

I love it because it’s there to be subverted.

We are supposed to want the toxic part of their relationship to fall away! To want the negative guilt and responsibility to go and leave just the love and caring, evolving into a happy healthy relationship instead of a toxic negative one that always leads to the next big bad, the next problem. Because it’s BAD.

We are supposed to be rooting for what happened regarding Dean’s feelings of self worth increasing, steadily getting better, leading all the way up to 12x22 and REVEL in this, which we did! 

It just shows us how long some of these themes can go on for.

Dean has been growing towards the events of 12x22 since the pilot but particularly regarding this part basically since he figured all this out after the huge negative toxic codependency climax moment of 8x23 which led to all sorts of bad things happening in the subsequent chain of events (and coincidentally starting from the point this happens with Crowley, his dark mirror, *shocker*): 

I'm just so weak for a happy, healthy relationship between the brothers :)

[amwritingmeta]

Since Sam and Dean don't exist in au, Michael and Lucifer definitely skipped the true vessel bs then went to war with angels and demons in their true forms (angel blades sticking out of the ground proves it). That means au Cas is in his true form and Jimmy Novak is probably dead in a ditch somewhere. I hate the idea of Jack resurrecting Cas cause that'd be too easy and basically turns him into god. So when Misha comes back, how can they bring Cas back with him?

Nonny 1: i saw the ask in which the Anon is wondering if they would make Misha play AU Cas, but i don’t believe they would do that, in fact it really wouldn’t make a lick of sense, because Cas in that AU aint Cas, what made Cas the angel we know and love is that he was the one who pulled Dean out of hell, Dean who changed him and taught him free will, and in that AU dean was never born to begin with, so AU Cas would be just an angel.

Nonny 2: Hello! I was wondering about the possibilities and any possible theories on the bizzaro-Narnia AU-where-Dean-and-Sam were never born world. Do you think that it could be explored, or that we might see AU! Cas? Not as in an outright replacement, but maybe 1 or 2 episodes with him as a commander of a garrison of angels? You’re by far one of the most optimistic meta writers I’ve met and I really need some happy speculation to get me through hellatus. Sorry if you’ve covered this before. Thanks!

Hello, lovelies!

So, three wonderful asks that all have to do with this AU World that’s been so suddenly thrown into the mix. I’m glad I get to tackle this topic! Thanks fawert and Nonnies! (and forgive my reply taking sooo long!)

The basis for the following speculation is that I believe the narrative is closing as the writers are moving it towards endgame. Everything in S11-S12 is telling me this because S11 began the movement by forcing Dean Winchester to admit to himself that he is properly, truly, madly and deeply in love with Cas. Read more on my thoughts about this here.

In short:

Dean Winchester is our Protagonist

His character growth is what informs the narrative

He wouldn’t have been set on this particular path of character growth if he hadn’t met Cas

Dean’s growth is what is allowing him to let go of Sam, ending the brodependency, and granting him the insight to find his true self-worth, through self-acceptance

His self-acceptance has a whole lot to do with letting go of his toxic masculinity spiel

His letting go of this will be most clearly demonstrated by him fully embracing the fact that he’s in love with a man

Happiness with the man he loves is Dean’s reward for completing his character growth, reaching the internal goal of his character arc: which is self-acceptance

(yeah) (he knows)

Now, I don’t know that this is where they’re taking the narrative, okay? Let me be perfectly clear about that. No one knows exactly what they’re planning (except the fuckers themselves) and they might go absolutely crazy in order to drag the narrative out for six more seasons.

However - and this is a big however, you guys - the writers have consistently, and with extreme due diligence, built a slow-burning love story between Dean and Cas that is beginning to peak - that’s what S12 gave us - meaning that going absolutely crazy to drag this love story out will jar with everything that’s come before.

Let’s not forget that our story is about love, and sacrifice, and love.

Love is mentioned twice by Metatron because our story has always been foremost about love.

The love between the brothers and the love between Dean and Cas. Without all that love - no sacrifice. (or manpain) (oh the manpain)

The fact of the matter is that the love between the brothers was set up from season one to evolve beyond their brodependency, and it would never have done that if it hadn’t been for Cas affecting Dean’s character growth. 

I know I’ve said it before, but hell, let’s say it again: 

the Destiel love story is integral to the narrative because it informs Dean’s character arc. 

And Dean is our Protagonist. 

His character arc informs the entire narrative and every single secondary character arc within it. Including Sam’s. It’s true!

Here’s a very recent example that proves it:

Dean shooting off that grenade launcher, and tearing down that first symbolic wall in 12x22, is what set off the amazing steps away from the brodependency that both brothers had managed by the end of 12x23. 

Dean shooting off the grenade launcher:

a) injured Dean, which brought him tob) telling Sam to go lead the attack on the BMoL without him

I could meta about the symbolism here until my fingers go numb, but this is not the post for that, safe to say: Dean tearing down walls is what led to him letting go of parenting!Dean, finally seeing Sam as the adult he is and being able to place his full faith in his little brother’s ability to manage by himself, and to lead, without Dean there to watch over him or guide him.

Fuck. Yes.

But to surmise: it was Dean the Protagonist who had to let Sam go - Sam couldn’t break free from Dean on his own.

Because Dean is the one who, primarily, needs to learn the big lessons that the narrative have been setting up for him through his character arc.

So my point is:

if they hurt the Destiel love story 

this love story, which is the very cornerstone of Dean’s character growth

by turning the tables and stalling said love story by, oh, I don’t know

bringing Cas back, but as a different character 

a character that doesn’t actually know Dean or have the shared history with him that our Cas does

->then they hurt the entire narrative they have built

And I cannot for the life of me believe that they would ever do that.

Not after nine years of carefully keeping this love story burning, removing a few coals now and again so that it wouldn’t flame up and singe the more delicate viewers, but still allowing it enough air to spread a lovely, warm glow, and (okay, enough of that now) (fine)

But you get my meaning here? Let’s boil my meaning down even further:

AU!Cas would effectively kill the love story

which would severely damage the overall narrative

would rob Dean and, by extension, Cas of their endgame rewards

which would cancel out the deeper purpose for all of Dean and Cas’ character growth

And so the mere thought makes absolutely no sense anywhere at all.

There will absolutely NOT be an AU!Cas to replace our Cas.

And I could slap Misha Collins for even hinting at the possibility of it, because he must know that all he’s doing is setting the speculation ball careening through the fandom. And it’s sadistic. (you are a sadist Misha Collins)

(see???)

fawert: I’ve already told you in a different post how much I loved your observations regarding the probable rules and circumstances of the AU World - eye-opening and I’m bound to agree with you because it looks the most plausible and, also, it’s gorgeous! And feeds my brain with all types of scenarios for Mary trying to survive that dystopian, war ridden place. *crackle*

Now, as for how they can bring Cas back, I’m speculating on what so many have already pointed to and speculated about (props to those who mentioned this first, I don’t know exactly who you are, sorry):

Spec 1 - Jack’s grace still lingering in Cas and reviving him

Though I sincerely don’t know how likely this is, I still feel the writers left themselves a loophole, because that grace can clearly perform fucking miracles and it was so obviously shown to us in 12x23 that Cas still possessed some of it, even if he couldn’t use it to ice Lucifer.

There should be a reason for it planted as a visual when he heals Dean. That visual didn’t need to be there: Cas tells Dean in dialogue that he can’t use the nephilim’s power anymore because killing Dagon took both him and Jack, so why the visual? If the lingering nephilim grace is useless anyway, why have Cas use it in order to heal Dean at all? Why not have Cas simply use his own powers, as he has all season? Hmmmmmm. *brow in deep creases*

So I strongly speculate that what we have been shown is to set up that Castiel the angel of the Lord is dead. Him dying an angel death for the first time ever was not for nothing. Dean’s angel is truly gone, and should be mourned.

But also because of this angel death, and thanks to the lingering nephilim grace, Cas is about to finally get the full human experience. *crossing fingers*

Spec 2 - Jack reviving Cas

Personally, I don’t think this is likely. I was convinced Kelly would survive the birth, that Jack would end up healing her or saving her rather than killing her, and her “I love you” right before Jack bright-light shone his way into the world makes me feel slightly vindicated. Because Kelly is the Good Mother who loved her son and willingly sacrificed her life to ensure he was born with all of his powers.

So, to my mind, baby Nephi was Good.

But Jack, in the form he is in now, leaving smouldering footprints on the floor, scaring the bejesus out of Sam: this Jack is most likely not going to simply touch Cas and bring him back to life. 

Firstly (and to me, most importantly): because Jack reviving Cas immediately and somehow brainwashing or controlling him or convincing him to stay as his Protector cancels out Cas’ dramatic death, and the effect it should have on our Protagonist. 

Cas died to further Dean’s character growth (and ultimately his own as well, of course) but if Jack revives Cas now, there’s no growth to be had for Dean.

We have seen Dean bereaved of Cas: Dean drinking himself into a near year long stupor

We have seen Dean pine for and wait for Cas: he kept Cas’ coat in the boot of his many, many different cars, expecting his return

We have seen Dean fight for Cas: he spent a year in Purgatory, keeping himself alive with the one aim to bring Cas home

We have yet to see Dean Winchester grieve for Cas without getting stuck in one of the 5 stages (and yes, everyone grieves differently, but for the sake of my argument, I’m assigning Dean the need to move through all 5 stages)

We have never seen him truly, deeply believing there is no hope for Cas to ever come back to him and accept this as a fact that is entirely out of his power of control.

For us to watch him, for the first time, go through each of the 5 Stages of Grief, he is first going to have to bury Cas’ body, put it in the ground, and yes, deny, bargain, get angry, get depressed over Cas’ death - he needs to go through all of this - but once he reaches acceptance for the first time in his entire character arc, then I would love it if this is the moment Cas is revived and finds his way back to the brothers. I would absolutely fall to pieces with happiness.

Especially if it’s human!Cas who’s finding his way back. I mean, just imagine the possibilities for character growth, for the joint love story to evolve and deepen into something undeniable.

It would do such wonders for both Dean and Cas’ character arcs if Cas came back as a human and came back early in the season, so that we get to watch him do all that character growth, finding his place, finally, in himself, and through it, with the brothers, within the world at large and, ultimately, taking up the space next to Dean in the Impala. 

(Because Sam will be MoLing)

Secondly: because Jack reviving Cas immediately and somehow brainwashing or controlling him or convincing him to stay as his Protector only works if Jack indeed chose Cas as his Protector, but, to my mind, based on how I read the narrative of 12x19 and baby Nephi being good, Jack didn’t chose Cas: baby Nephi chose Cas.

The nephilim’s angelic side chose Cas.

Jack, as I see it, is the Opposite of the nephilim’s angelic side, and so I would put forward the possibility that this Newborn Jack will not feel tied to Cas in any way.

Newborn Jack could, absolutely, be the spitting image of Daddy Devil. Newborn Jack could be the Corruptor and Deceiver, and I believe this is the whole point for the Opposites, shown to us in how baby Nephi was presented through the 12x19 narrative rejecting Evil at every turn, and how we are presented to Newborn Jack through Sam finding him, smiling, in the corner of the darkened nursery.

(first impressions will hopefully not last)

Now, here’s what I’d like, because my brain *crackles* with the dramatic conflict:

Rather than Newborn Jack darting off - which is one of the possibilities at the back of my head - I think they’ll choose to keep Newborn Jack with the brothers, keep his actual intentions ambiguous, and leave us wondering whether he’s an angel or a demon or a little bit of both, but mostly demon, it seems, or is he actually good? Hmmmmm? We just won’t be able to properly tell.

I can see them playing with a Dexter sense of danger around Newborn Jack, where he’s observing them all like they’re lab rats, but where, ultimately, their behaviour and TFW placing true faith in him making the right choices will lead to him connecting with his inherent Humanity.

Spec 3 - Regarding the bizzaro-Narnia AU-where-Dean-and-Sam were never born world

(Would love for this to be the official fandom denomination, btw - let’s throw it in the hat!)

Do I believe they’ll explore this world?

Yes: if the question is with regards to Mary being trapped in it.

They may choose to build it as part of Mary’s self-acceptance arc, where she gets to see what the world would be like without her boys and what her choices actually did for the world. Namely: save the hell out of it. It could be poignant that Luci is stuck over there as well, but more for the plot than his character arc, I should think. He’ll come back all threatening and badass, I’m sure.

No: if the question is regarding expanding the SPN Universe to now include this other dimension, and possibly more of them, spinning the series into a time-traveling multidimensional party cracker of narrative possibility that will last for years and years to come.

No.

I sincerely doubt it.

Because of the aforementioned reasons of Dean as our Protagonist and his character arc and growth and endgame and building the narrative around this for twelve years. (more or less for twelve years) (I know Sam started out as the Protagonist) (though I would like to call bullshit on this for reasons) (whatever)

Spec 4 - Do I believe the bizarro-Narnia AU-where-Dean-and-Sam were never born world will affect the SPN reality we’ve come to know and love?

Possibly.

I can see something slipping through the cracks. Or Mary and Lucifer both returning with new information and it becomes a race to outwit the other, find the key to the universe first (or is that what Jack is supposed to be) or something crazy and huge like that.

But I am of the impression that the AU World is nothing more than a plot device, used to show us - the audience - what our world would be if it weren’t for the Winchesters.

As the narrative has entered the final act, as they are tying it up, looping it back to the beginning with callback after callback, this underlining of how all the misery, and heartbreak, and manpain that the brothers Winchester have been put through, has all been worth it makes perfect sense, and underpins the validity of the narrative as a whole. Which I like.

I truly can’t see the AU World serving any further purpose than that of the pure plot device that was Purgatory, which the writers cleverly used to show us exactly how much Cas means to Dean, and vice versa, and to grant Cas the chance to repent, so that he’d be able to believably move on from the severe error in judgment he was guilty of when he let the Leviathan into the world. This time it’s Mary’s turn to repent and to forgive herself, which goes nicely with her and Cas paralleling each other’s arcs for all of S12.

Spec 5 - Will we see an AU!Cas in any shape or form?

Possibly through Mary, yes, but I sincerely doubt they’d bring AU!Cas into the middle of the heartbreak that will be grieving!Dean. I mean, they could. They might very well do that. But it’d be fucked up. And I agree with both fawert and our other Nonny who pointed out that Castiel would, most likely, not even be possessing Jimmy Novak anymore. (aka Misha Collins) (…the sadist) 

So what would be the point of bringing Castiel the angel of the Lord into the mix?

Castiel in our reality is dead. He has died. 

We need to feel his death with Dean. 

We want to feel it with him, not be distracted by some Cas wannabe stomping onto the scene, taking up our Cas’ vacant space. No, thank you. Right?

I think the writers will want to torment us (they are sadists along with Misha the sadist Collins) (all writers are) (yours truly included) (so, you know, stones thrown at glass and all that) Anyway, they won’t just revive Cas within minutes or even within the first episode. I believe he’ll be put in the ground. Or, to be honest, I would like for him to be put in the ground. Obviously they won’t burn him.

So, to point to the most important sentence on offer in this post:

There will not be an AU!Cas to replace our Cas.

Ever.

(also Misha Collins is a sadist)

[destiel-sucks-i-know-that-now]

I love watching Destiel hellers bargain over the years

Season 5: Destihellers - Fire Jared and turn Supernatural into the Dean and Cas show.  Make Destiel canon, totally change the show for us do it now!

*Sam saves the world and Supernatural continues to be about Sam n Dean*

Season 6: Destihellers - Oh wait, we actually love Sam so don’t fire Jared but instead make Sam the Destiel cheerleader in the Dean and Cas show!

*Cas does most of his shit off screen, meanwhile Dean temporarily dies to get his Sammy back*

Season 7: Destihellers - Dean needs to go crazy with grief and sell his own soul to bring back Cas!”

*Dean never grieves and never mentions Cas again, meanwhile he’s totally focus on on Sam while grieving over Bobby’s death.*

Season 8: Destihellers - okay fine, Supernatural is about Dean AND Sam, but it doesn’t mean Dean can’t also love Cas equally as he loves Sam.

*Dean puts nothing before Sam before accidentally marrying Sam in a church*

Season 9: Destihellers - Look, the brodependecy thing is toxic, the boys need friends outside of eachother.  Dean needs to be with Cas more to have a healthier outlook.

*Dean kicks a human Cas out into the streets without care, money, protection, or shelter*

Season 10: Destihellers - Come on if you make Destiel canon NOTHING on the show has to change!

*Cas has separate story lines and Dean and Cas grow increasingly irrelevant from eachother*

Season 11: Destihellers - I don’t want Destiel to be canon anymore, I just want Dean to be nice to Cas again.

*Dean tells Cas he’s like a brother to them and their best friend*

Destiehellers - How dare Dean no-homo friendzoned Cas!!!  

Season 12: Destihellers - Destiel is gonna be canon this season I can feel it..

*Cas betrays the WInchesters and chooses the Devil’s fetus over them and then dies because reason*

Season 13: Destihellers - Brodependency is gonna be broken this season I can feel it.  Dean will say “I love you” to Cas when he comes back and then they’ll be Jack’s two dads.

*Sam is the father figure to Jack who tells Sam “I love you” while Dean obsessed over how to keep Sammy alive*

Season 14: Destihellers - “Turning point!”

*Dean tells Cas “you’re dead to me”, blames Cas for Jack’s murder of Mary, and carved Mary’s initials onto the table next to his and Sam’s initials.*

Season 15: Destiehellers - omygoshomygosh Dean actually apologized to Cas, and Eileen wants Sam bad, surely this means....

*global pandemic interupts filming and IMDB says Misha will not be in the last two episodes.  Oh and Sam and Eileen broke up*

Destihellers -  FUCK YOU WINCEST!