#topic: world building

[gummi-ships]

Kingdom Hearts 3 - San Fransokyo

[allastoredeer]

The Hierarchal Power Structure in Pentagram City + Royal Family Character Analysis (Hellaverse World-Building)

I did some character analysis, lore, and world-building last night for Pentagram City and the hierarchical systems, and @tomboy014, I saw your reply, and I am here to deliver the deets.

First and foremost, disclaimer: this is world-building/character analysis/lore that I came up with. Some of it is based on canon, but a lot of it is built off my personal fanon. None of it can actually be considered canon, but feel free to incorporate anything here into your fanon or fics or whatever you want. And feel free to not take any of it seriously and ignore it if it doesn't work for you.

This post is going to be broken up into separate parts that delve into different subjects, like the city districts, the Overlords and what they give to the city, hierarchal systems, politics, and soul-contracts.

To get things started, I'm diving into the hierarchical systems of power in the Pride Ring and how involved or uninvolved they are in, most of the character analysis is on the Royal Family (Lucifer, Lilith, and Charlie) and their relationship to the Pride Ring.

So, we know that the Sinners are contained to the Pride Ring and that however powerful the Overlords are and how much influence they have in the Ring, they are still outranked by the Goetia and the Royal Family.

So, diving into that, let's start with the big boss of Hell himself:

Lucifer

Lucifer is the top dog. He's the most powerful being in Hell. What he says goes.

But he doesn't often involve himself with Pentagram City or the Sinners. He's gone out, made appearances, settled disputes that made their way up to him, and is the one who typically deals with Heaven and their input.

Unlike Sinners, he actually gets along well with the Hellborn. He has powerful Hellborn friends, like the Eldritch family - Charlie previously dated Seviathan Von Eldritch (their son) and we see a picture of Frederick Von Eldritch (the dad) with Lucifer in Lucifer's workshop in "Dad Beat Dad:

So, he has good relationships with other people. He has friends. He gets along well with the other Deadly Sins and the Goetia. He has absolutely no problems with them.

He also doesn't mind dealing with issues that pop up in other Rings, but given that those Rings are managed by the other Sins, it's rare that he has to get involved. Usually, the only times he would, is if the Sins themselves were having a dispute with each other, and it got big enough to warrant it coming to him. He's the big boss of Hell, afterall. He gets the final say.

What he does distance himself from is the Sinners.

When it comes to Heaven, Lucifer has an inferiority complex. 

He's been in Heaven, with the seraphims, archangels, and angels for most of his existence. He grew up believing what they believe. He was considered a trouble-maker for his grandiose ideas, but he was still one of them.

But after giving Eve the fruit of knowledge, giving free-will to mankind and breaking the careful order Heaven maintained, the beings that he's been with his entire existence turned on him. Rejected him. Cast him out and punish him for his mistake by seeing nothing but the terrible and wicked caused by his actions.

He feels ashamed and humiliated. Belittled and looked down on. If everyone you've ever known, everyone you've ever been close to, tells you you're done a terrible thing, what other choice do you have then to believe them?

He's still prideful, but that pride is what causes him to have such great shame. He was so certain of his decision. So certain that giving Eve the apple was the right move, only to be torn down so thoroughly and cast out of his home.

But with the Sinners he has a superiority complex.

The Sinners are a constant reminder of his mistake. When he sees them, all he feels is shame, anger, humiliation, and disgust, but he still thinks he's better than them. He thinks all the Hellborn are better than them. He's still got a sliver of that high-and-mighty angel inside him that looks down on the Sinners.

Heaven deemed them bad enough to be sent to Hell, afterall. And even though he'd been cut off from Heaven, even though he was cast out, Heaven's definition of "good" and "bad" is still rooted in his brain. They would know, right? Heaven is pure, and righteous, and good. He was once pure, and righteous, and good. Their logic and reasoning made sense to him, and a part of it still does.

So, he goes out of his way to avoid interacting with the Sinners. Given that he's only ever seen the worst in humanity, he considers them the lowest of the low and doesn't bother trying to learn more about them - he stopped trying to see the good in them after the first few hundred years.

To him, all Sinners are horrible. Heartless. Monstrous. Cruel. They tear things down instead of build things up. They're everything wrong with humanity. He doesn't hold a high opinion of them, nor has he for a very, very, very long time.

Given that he represents "pride," most would assume that he manages the Pride Ring, but it's actually Lilith who runs the Ring and everyone in it. Lucifer is more than happy to let Lilith take the reins when it comes to the Sinners, and almost never takes the opportunity to get more involved when one comes up.

Lilith

Lilith holds a higher opinion of the Sinners than Lucifer does.

She used to be human, afterall. She was the first woman. One of three people that marked the beginning of mankind. Technically, one could argue that she was the first human to commit a sin as she had not only rejected Adam but she was on board with Lucifer sharing the fruit of knowledge with Eve. She was punished for their "reckless act" just the same as Lucifer and cast into Hell.

But where Lucifer feels disgust and shame, Lilith feels a sense of freedom. She's no longer bound to Heaven and their rules. Rules that she struggled with and had to break free of. Rules that also dubbed her a "wicked person" for breaking them.

She feels connected to the Sinners. She feels a kinship with them. She has more empathy for their situations and actions. She understands their misery and anger. She loves learning about them and their stories - some Sinners, of course, are absolutely deplorable human beings. But there are some who lived in difficult situations, made mistakes, developed bad habits, were forced into tight corners, had no other options, or were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. She feels righteous anger at Heaven and its strict system that separates the "good" from the "bad."

Lilith has been involved with the growth of Pentagram City since the beginning, and once Overlords became a thing, she worked side-by-side with them to keep the Ring functioning as best as a society can function in Hell.

She was a lot more involved in the beginning of Hell. However, the more the city grew the more it was able to stand on its own two legs. She had more time to step away and be with Lucifer, Charlie later on, and the other Rings. She still often holds her concerts to inspire and uplift demonkind, but she doesn't have to help run the city so much.

Overtime, she became more of an occasional guiding hand or a final vote. The Overlords had a hold of most situations and solved it amongst their own territories or with the other Overlords.

Charlie

While born in Hell, Charlie was actually very sheltered growing up. She was allowed to go to the other Rings, and often went on trips with Lucifer and Lilith to visit the other Sins, but despite living in the Pride Ring, she wasn't allowed to really explore it for a lot of her life growing up.

Lilith wanted to bring young Charlie with her on her trips into the city, to meet the Overlords, see her subjects, and familiarize herself with all the districts, but Lucifer was a little bit more, ehhhh...hesitant, you could say. And protective. Very protective.

He didn't like the idea of his little girl rubbing elbows with the scum of humankind. Of her seeing the violence and cruelty they so often displayed. She became a bright, burning light in his life, giving him new drive, something to love and take care of. It brought him out of his depression for a time, especially when Charlie lived in the palace, but he still had moments when he fell back into it. When he had hard days. When he sunk back into dark thoughts and internalized shame.

During these dark periods of time, Lucifer locked himself in his workroom. He didn't have the energy, the mental capacity, to be there for Charlie, and he didn't want to bring any of the dark and negative thoughts & emotions on to Charlie - the light in his life. His pride and joy.

Distancing himself from her during this spirals is how he "protected" her. He convinced himself that it was for her own good not to see him like this. That he needed to keep this side of him locked away and out of sight for her benefit, not realizing just how much Charlie needed him.

During these spirals, Lucifer turned to creation. He made things. Things for Charlie. Things for Lilith. Random knick-knacks. Whatever object, animal, or concept that crossed his mind. More often than not, though, his creations had holy undertones. Angelic designs. Some piece of Heaven squirreled inside.

Charlie loved watching her dad create things, and eventually, Lucifer started telling her stories about Heaven. What it was like up there. How beautiful it was. The archangels and the seraphims who made galaxies and expanded the universe. Who kept evil at bay.

Charlie soaked in these stories and developed a fascination for Heaven.

Lilith didn't approve. She had complicated feelings about Heaven, but for the most part, she had a negative opinion of it. Of the angels, the seraphims, their order, and rules, and expectations. She doesn't see it with the same rose-tinted glasses that Lucifer does. She doesn't have the millennia of memories and experiences that Lucifer has.

She doesn't like Lucifer filling Charlie's head with these grandiose and beautiful depictions of Heaven. She doesn't like Charlie's growing fascination with Heaven. She doesn't like the look of awe and wonder in Charlie's eyes. She doesn't like Lucifer painting Heaven in this perfect light when they had both been hurt so badly by them. She's been with Lucifer since the beginning, has seen him through every up and down, spiral, and depressive episode, and she doesn't understand how he could still hold such a high opinion of them after everything they did. Everything they've put her through. Everything they put him through.

She's okay with Lucifer spending time with Charlie and creating things with her, but she does interrupt and make an excuse to take Charlie with her when Lucifer starts talking about Heaven, or creating Heavenly things, like the bird-angel-creature from "Dad Beat Dad"

She doesn't want Charlie getting the wrong idea about them.

Lucifer's leniency towards Heaven & contempt for Sinner and Lilith's animosity towards Heaven & compassion for Sinners starts butting heads more and more as Charlie grows up. It leads to arguments, and then fights, and eventually, their divorce.

Charlie grew up torn between her father's dreams and stories, and her mothers compassion for Sinners and desire to help them. Both facets have been instilled in her. They're both driving motivators for her and what she wants to do with her life.

But seeing the separation between her parents was hard and it hurt. No matter what she did, she couldn't help their marriage or their family. So, she turned to helping others. The Sinners, specifically. Of redeeming them so they may see the beautiful, wondrous place her father told her about.

Lucifer still didn't approve, of course, which devastated Charlie. She wanted his support. Needed it. But he couldn't look past his contempt for Sinners, and it became the leading factor that led to their estrangement in the years that followed, with Charlie feeling unsupported and neglected, and Lucifer wanting to reconnect with her so badly but not knowing how to bridge the gap.

Lilith needed distance from Lucifer. She still loved him. She did. But she's also been with him since before Hell was created. They've been at each other's sides since they first met in the Garden of Eden.

And Lucifer's depressive episodes were hard on her too. She did everything she could to support him. To help him. To be there for him. But over time, the mental and emotional load began weighing on her. It started affecting her mentally and emotionally too. It's hard to be the one constantly holding up the other. She felt like she could never break. Never stumble. She had to be steadfast. She had to be strong. A pillar for her family and her kingdom. To raise Charlie, oversee the city, and support Lucifer all at once, and she was exhausted.

And with her and Lucifer butting heads more and more, she couldn't keep doing it. She left the Pride Ring, visited the other Rings, took some time for herself and something something, stuff happens, she ends up in Heaven (my reasoning for this changes based on what fic I'm writing or concept I'm thinking about, so I don't have a concrete answer to give).

She did leave Charlie on her own, too, though.

Charlie had to build her plan for redemption, start her hotel, and deal with demonkind all on her own, without the support of either of her parents, without their help navigating the city and dealing with Sinners, which leaves her fumbling, unsure how to act around them, and a bit naive to their situation. When she met Vaggie, she got the love and support for her dreams, for herself, that she craved. That she needed. That's been missing for so many years.

Charlie still loves both of her parents deeply, but she has complicated feelings about them that she buries deep, deep, deep down inside her. She's got mommy and daddy issues.

Goetia

The Goetia are the third most powerful beings in Hell (after the Sins and the Royal Family). They outrank the Overlords easily.

Goetia families live in every ring. They can move between Rings, go where they want, and have their own sway and political power in Hell. A Goetia that we know, for sure, lives in the Pride Ring is Stolas, as implied by the sky where his house/estate is located:

But, generally, the Goetia don't get that involved in Pentagram City, its politics, or the Overlords, unless it affects them directly. They work with the Overlords, meet with them to discuss matters that involve them both, but over all, they leave Pentagram City, the Overlords, and the Sinners all to their own devices. They don't care enough to get involved, and, technically, the Pride Ring is the Sinner's ring - as they are restricted to it - and they don't want to have to maintain a society or system for them.

The Goetia have an indifferent opinion of the Sinners. Where Imps and Hellhounds are the lower class, and generally looked down on, especially by the Goetia, the Sinners are kind of just...there.

They may look down on them a little, and not take the Overlords too seriously, as they see them as nothing but a handful of Sinners with a smidgeon of power - how cute ^.^ They think they can actually do shit! - that doesn't hold a candle to a Goetia's power.

They do tend to underestimate the Overlord's power and can be condescending towards them, but in the end, if an Overlord were to try and go toe-to-toe with a Goetia, they would get their ass beat.

So, the Goetia's attitude towards Pentagram City, the Overlords, and the Sinners is generally indifferent. They simply don't care enough to get involved. The Sinners are none of their concern and they don't want to make them their concern. They only ever interact/deal with the Overlords, and even then, it's sparingly.

The Goetia keep to themselves. The Overlords and Sinners keep to themselves. Both are fine with this. (The Overlords would not be happy if the Goetia decided they wanted more control of city and inserted themselves into the politics and hierarchy).

Overlords

Like how Lucifer is the top dog in all of Hell, the Overlords are the top dogs in Pentagram City (not including the Goetia, who keep to themselves and don't get involved in Sinner business).

The city is run by the Overlords. They each have their own districts, their own imports and exports, and a trade that benefits the city in some way, shape, or form. A lot of their trades can be dependent, or involved, with other Overlord's and their trades, which is an incentive for them to keep the peace and work together.

They meet up fairly often to discuss the happenings in the cities, situations/events that have an impact on all of them (like the Exterminations), problems that arises that they need to groupthink for solutions, and any matter or subject that an Overlord wants to bring up with the other's.

The relationship between the Overlords can vary. Some can be friends, some can just be allies, some can have friction, and some can be flat out rivals. No matter what the relationship is, it's crucial that the order between them be maintained.

Overlords, generally, try not to attack or openly antagonize each other. They don't typically want to start fights, as that is just as much a risk to them as it is to the one they want to fight. And if a fight does break out, either 1) the Overlord will be defeated with the possibility of losing souls - or killed, depending on if their attacker has an angelic weapon, or 2) the defeated Overlord will be embarrassed and angry, and the friction will only get worse and cause more detriment to the group as a whole.

Nobody wants Overlords fighting, especially the Overlords. They're the most powerful Sinners, but even that power has risks. It takes a while to build up, but it can be snatched away so quickly, and few of them want to take that chance. The best option is to get along as best they can when they're in the same room, and keep to themselves and their districts when they separate.

The Overlords are essentially a counsel. They're all considered equals of each other. There is no head of the Overlords. No one who presides over them, except Lilith. They all stand on equal footing and treat each other as such (at least outwardly). They work together to keep the city running, as their empires, power, and trades are dependent on the city. It's in all their best interests to keep it functioning as much as a society can function in Hell. (It helps that they are the ones controlling the system, and thus, they benefit from having a say in what goes on in the city).

If an Overlord were to be "toppled" or killed, it would actually rock the balance that's been established in the city. Suddenly, there will be thousands of Sinners with broken contracts who now own their souls, entire territories that can be seized, a trade/resource that is either up for grabs or gone entirely, and overall chaos and confusion. Greedy Overlords might make a power grab for more territory and souls, which becomes a threat to the other Overlords and their status. More fights break out. More damage and destruction. More friction.

It's bad for everyone. So they try to keep the peace among each other as much as possible.

Crime-Families

Crime-families fall under the Overlords in this hierarchy of power. These crime-families don't have to be "families," they can be gangs, factions, syndicates, or organizations.

Some of them may be owned by an Overlord, fall into the jurisdiction of an Overlord, or are entirely independent with their souls intact. No matter what the relationship is, crime-families do tend to work directly with Overlords.

They specialize in smuggling, trafficking, and recruiting. Unless owned, they typically don't work with just one Overlord, but do business with all of them. They can be paid under-the-table by a specific Overlord to be notified when they have a “fresh supply," or if they found something/someone that could benefit that Overlord, but generally, they keep the entire pool open and neutral, as there's more money to be made that way and there's safety in being a resource for all Overlords, not just one. That way, if they were threatened, it would come to the attention of all the Overlords, as they are a valuable resource and anyone threatening that makes themselves a target.

Owned Sinners

Owned-Sinners are Sinners who have sold their soul. The system for owning and selling souls is a complex one, with pros and cons. There's a reason so many sinners end up selling their souls, despite how serious and significant it is to do so.

And that's because so often the benefits outweigh the risks.

There are many reasons why a Sinner will sell their soul, like fame, money, opportunity, security, safety, housing, jobs, desires, needs, etc... and whoever owns their soul, that person is now responsible for it and them.

Some Sinners will sell their soul as a way to get a well-paying job from an Overlord, or to fall under their protection so they're safe from outside threats, or to pay off loans they can't pay back, or to wipe clean their slate if they get themselves in too much trouble. When an Overlord owns your soul, you have the opportunity to relocate to that Overlord's district as further means of security and opportunity.

Furthermore, most people who sell their souls just...continue living their own lives. Overlords own thousands upon thousands of souls. There's no way they can keep track of every single one of them, or have hyper-specific deals with each one. Most sinners can sell their soul and continue living their afterlife with whatever benefits they sold it for. Easy peasy.

There are, of course, cons too.

Like, the fact that you are owned by someone. You're bound by the contract you signed. You're bound to the person who now owns your soul. The deal you made may have specific requirements that you have to follow, and not doing so can result in very, very bad consequences.

It opens situations for abuse and being taken-advantage of. Even if you change your mind afterward, you can't break the deal. Unless you convince the owner of your soul to dissolve it, they don't hold up their end of the bargain, or you can't find a loophole/backdoor, you're trapped in the contract and there is nothing you can do about it.

Non-Owned Sinners

Non-Owned Sinners fall under Owned-Sinners in this power-structure because they don't have the opportunities or security that comes with being tied to an Overlord.

Overlords can offer protection, housing, well-paying jobs, opportunities, money, debt-relief, a myriad of things. Whereas Non-Owned Sinners are all on their own. They're "free targets." There won't be any repercussions to killing them, hurting them, taking all their shit, trafficking them, literally doing anything to them.

Non-Owned Sinners have the independence and freedom of owning their souls, but they're essentially fishes in a shark tank. They're vulnerable. They're out in the open. They're more likely to live in squalor. Bad things are more likely to happen to them.

Living in Hell, where death, destruction, misery, and torment are the norm, most Sinners will end up selling their souls. And if they don't at first, they usually do eventually when life gets too hard, they get themselves into too much trouble, they fall for a recruiters trap, or they're desperate.

Imps

Imps are below Non-Owned Sinners. The Pride Ring is the most diverse Ring in all of Hell, so there are a lot of Hellborn who live there. Imps are still one of the lowest classes, but there are actually a lot of opportunities for them there.

Sinners don't see Imps the same way other Hellborn do. They weren't born there and they are restricted to the Pride Ring, so they don't see how other Rings treat Imps. 

Imps aren't treated as badly in the Pride Ring, especially in Imp City (which is an entire district in Pentagram City that's in a neutral zone, and thus, under the jurisdiction of no Overlord) and is dominantly populated by other Imps.

Though they still are very much treated as a lower class, it's not as terrible as it can be in other Rings. The diversity of so many sinners and Hellborn make it a little easier. They have job opportunities within the city. They can work for Overlords without having to sell their soul, as Overlords can't own the souls of Hellborn, just other Sinners.

Hellhounds

Hellhounds are at the bottom of the list, as they are canonically the lowest social class in Hell. Most of the jobs they get fall under the category of security, manual labor, sex work, or working with crime-families.

Like Imps, it's a little better in the Pride Ring, given its diversity and the Sinners not having a full scope of just how much lower of a class Imps and Hellhounds are supposed to be. It's not perfect by any means, and the system is still rigged against them, but there's more job opportunities and ways to make a life for themselves.

That's that for the hierarchical system in the Pride Ring, from the highest class to the lowest class. The most powerful to the least powerful.

TLDR: Lucifer is the most powerful but he doesn't want to get involved with Sinners, Lilith helped the city grow until it could stand on its own, Charlie wants to help but struggles due to family issues and being sheltered most of her life, the Goetia don't care enough to get involved with the Sinners, the Overlords are a counsel of equals, Crime families work for the Overlords, Owned-Sinners have more opportunity, Non-Owned Sinners have less opportunity, Imps and Hellhounds have always been considered a lower class, but it's not as bad for them in the Pride Ring.

Up Next: A Deep Dive into the Overlords and their Districts (this is where the real world-building begins)

[silverwhittlingknife]

How do you feel about Jack Drake?? What are your thoughts on him and Tim’s relationship?

Anon, I hope you were interested in a novel, because look, I am fascinated by Jack Drake.  He’s key to a whole lot of what I find compelling about Tim as a character, and if I were in charge of DC, I’d bring him back to life.  This would make Tim unhappy but would IMO make for good plotlines.

Jack and Tim’s relationship is Complicated (TM)...

Jack and Tim hug in Nightwing 20 / Jack impulsively yanks a TV out of the wall in Robin 45 / Tim grieves in Identity Crisis

“I could tell the truth.  But I don’t.” - Robin 66

...and it involves a whole lot of Tim lying, and feeling guilty about lying, and thinking about telling the truth, and choosing again and again to keep lying.

And I think that’s great.

Below the cut:

Shorter version - key points about Jack

Really long version - my gentler take (vigilantism is choir and Jack loves sports) vs. my harsher take (Jack has some major flaws)

Final thoughts

Shorter version - key points about Jack:

He’s a bad parent.  He’s self-centered, he consistently prioritizes his own comfort and interests over his son’s, and when upset, he does things like order Tim off to boarding school.

But he’s never a bad parent in an actionable way.  He’s not like David Cain or Arthur Brown, who are abusive monsters.  Jack’s not a monster!  He just...kinda sucks.

He genuinely loves Tim. If Jack’s aware that Tim’s disappeared or is in trouble, he’s always worried and upset.  He periodically resolves to be a better dad, and IMO he’s always sincere.

And Tim loves him, a lot.  Tim’s protective of him and worries about him when he’s kidnapped or in danger, and when they’re reunited, Tim’s really relieved and usually hugs him (and Jack hugs back!). 

...But they have very little in common, and that’s a problem. Jack doesn’t value the things that Tim values, or respect the people that Tim admires, or care about the things that Tim’s interested in.  Tim lies to him a lot, but that’s partly because he correctly guesses Jack wouldn’t respond well if he knew the truth of what Tim’s up to.

The Batfamily is a surrogate family that Tim’s drawn to because of the ways his real family doesn’t meet his emotional needs…but also he feels guilty about that and disloyal. (And to the extent that his dad recognizes what’s going on, he's jealous and resentful!)

Very long version:

(LISTEN I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS)

Okay!  So first: Jack’s a character who IMO is pretty up for interpretation.  You can interpret him very charitably, and make excuses for the bad behavior, and fill in the blanks sympathetically when situations are ambiguous; or you can interpret him uncharitably, and emphasize the bad behavior. I don’t think either approach is invalid - it depends on what kind of story you’re interested in!  I have enjoyed Bad Dad stories and also stories that redeem Jack.

My personal take on canon is that Jack and Tim’s relationship is in a gray area.  Jack's definitely neglectful, and he does prioritize other things over Tim, but he’s never so bad that Tim can easily reject him, and he's never so bad that Bruce could justify taking Tim away.  He's just...not great.  Tim loves him, and feels loyal to him, but it’s a very mixed-up complicated love.

I have a gentler take and a harsher one which I switch between as the spirit moves me. xD

My Gentler Take (tl;dr: vigilantism is choir and Jack loves sports)

Here’s the core conflict: Jack and Tim are very different people with different values.  Tim idolizes Bruce and Dick and vigilantism, and secretly gets involved, knowing his dad will hate it. He gets increasingly wrapped up in his secret world and lies to his dad...because if his dad finds out, he’ll make Tim quit.

This is a great setup for an ongoing comic.  It’s practical, because it provides endless potential for plotlines, and it’s nicely thematic, because it maps closely onto relatable real-life situations with extracurricular activities:

Tim the drama nerd whose dad thinks he’s playing football and not in the school play; 

Tim the closeted-queer kid secretly getting involved in his school’s politically-active Gay-Straight Alliance; 

Tim the choir kid whose dad only values making money and wants him to go into the family business (and Tim keeps promising himself he'll give up choir soon, definitely soon, but maybe he'll stay in just a liiiittle longer, because they need him, you see, the last tenor left town, so...); 

Tim the computer geek with the sports-obsessed dad (this one’s just canon);

etc. etc.  

The extracurricular metaphor works pretty well for Tim’s relationship to vigilantism.  Tim's involved in his "extracurricular" because he genuinely thinks it's important and fulfilling, and he values it and wants to be good at it. He idolizes Bruce and Dick because they're good at it. He's been collecting information about it since he was a little kid, and hiding it from his parents because he knows they wouldn't approve. And mayyyybe there's also an element of low-key rebellion against his dad, and maybe that's secretly part of the appeal. And yet also as Tim gets more and more invested, he starts to daydream: maybe I could tell my dad and he'd be proud of me and supportive. But he doesn't, because actually he knows his dad would be upset and angry and make him quit.

And - again, just like with lonely kids and extracurricular hobbies - one of the things that happens is that Tim starts getting his unfilled emotional needs met ... by people he knows through this secret hobby. And people like Bruce and Dick start turning into a surrogate family. Which Tim feels guilty about. And also as Tim gets more and more wrapped up in their world, he has to lie to his dad even more, which means the distance between Tim and his dad gets bigger and bigger and more and more unfixable.

I love this dilemma. It's simple, it's recognizable, it provides endless sources for conflict, and there's no obvious solution! Tim can't tell Jack: he'll make Tim quit! And Tim doesn't want to quit, because he loves choir / art / theater / whatever.  Yeah, it’s difficult, and there are challenges, and sometimes he has doubts...but at the end of the day, he cares about it a lot.  And everything he values is there, and all the people he admires and cares about are there, and all he wants in the world is to feel like he's one of them and belongs there. So he has to lie, even though he doesn't want to lie, and he feels guilty about it...

...but also he ends up lying more and more.

(Sidenote: I think it's important that Tim chooses to keep lying - Tim's narration often glosses this as "I have to lie to my dad," and that's certainly how it feels to Tim, but this... isn't quite true. He has to lie to his dad, because if he doesn't, his dad will get mad at him and try to stop him, not because he literally has no choice about it.)

Other Reasons Why I Like The "Secret Extracurricular" Interpretation

(tl;dr it complicates not just Tim's relationship with his dad, but also all his other relationships)

Tim's problems have some obvious parallels to Steph and Cass, who both become vigilantes while rejecting their evil supervillain dads. But Jack isn't evil. And that means the Tim-and-Jack relationship is ambiguous and complicated in ways that I like. Steph and Cass can just leave their Bad Dads in prison, and say good riddance, and feel very righteous and triumphant about it! Tim’s more complicated. Tim gets into vigilantism ostensibly out of duty and altruism, but secretly, he's also involved for straight-up selfish self-fulfillment reasons. He's lonely, and bored, and his life feels pointless, but he thinks that Bruce and Dick are cool and amazing and he wants to be a part of the things that they do.  When his dad gets jealous of Tim’s relationship to Bruce, and feels like Tim’s looking for a surrogate family, he’s... not wrong.

And the ways in which Jack is not Actionably Bad complicate things from Bruce's POV.  If Jack was a straight-up villain, it’d be an easy call to keep in touch when Jack finds out and makes Tim quit...but he’s not a villain, not really.  So what do you do?  Do you try to surreptitiously stay in touch with Tim even though you’re ignoring his dad’s express wishes and thus forcing Tim to sneak around?  Do you respect his dad’s wishes and stay away from Tim even though you have a years-long relationship at this point?  

Again: a bit similar to the extracurricular analogy.  Say you’re the choir director and you’ve built this whole relationship with a kid in the choir, and you’re an important mentor to him and you care about him etc. etc. etc.... and then right before a big performance, his dad finds out he’s been secretly involved, and yanks him out.  How would you react?  Well, maybe kind of in some of the ways Bruce reacts.  You replace him. You’re annoyed with him. You miss him. You want him to come back. You’re also worried about him.  You’re upset with his dad.  But also... what should you do, exactly?

Bruce and Alfred and Dick care about Tim as if he were part of their family, but he’s not part of their family, and there’s a lot of interesting tension there.

My Harsher Take

Jack never hits his son.  But his temper is a big deal.

In his worst moments, he takes out his anger on Tim’s stuff - wrecking his room, or ripping his TV out of the wall and confiscating it.  When he’s worried about Tim, he usually expresses that fear by yelling at him / punishing him / sending him away - threatening to send him to boarding school in Metropolis in Robin III, or threatening to send him to military school abroad in Robin 92, or actually forcing him to go to an all-boys' boarding school post-NML.  

This is bad behavior!  It is Not Good!  

And you can easily connect the dots to a bunch of Tim’s terrible coping mechanisms, like the constant lying and or the fact that Tim’s go-to methods for dealing with interpersonal conflict are 1) repress it and pretend it never happened (most of his fights with Bruce), 2) withdraw from the relationship until he can pretend the conflict doesn’t exist (when his friends get mad at him in YJ, he quits the team for a while), or 3) literally run away from home.

Also, Jack is a Manly Man with firm opinions about how men behave vs. how women behave, and he thinks boys shouldn’t be scared and thinks Tim should date hot girls and pushes Tim to work out and wants him to play football and expresses period-typical sexism, etc. etc. etc. ... and though obviously this wasn’t what the writers had in mind at the time, all of that is certainly interesting to read backwards in the light of Tim as a queer character.

More Disorganized Thoughts on Jack Drake

Tim’s our hero, so we’re naturally more sympathetic to him, but it’s also true that relationships are a two-way street, and Tim doesn’t value any of the things his dad values, either.  Jack at various points is shown to care about grades, business, money, boarding schools, archeology, football, a kind of macho bragging-about-dating-hot-women ethos, and a very public and performative kind of caring. Tim tends to respond with discomfort or disinterest or even disgust.  When Jack gets on TV to try to rally the government to save his son from No Man’s Land, Tim isn’t touched—he’s mortified.  When Jack makes some bad investments and loses money, Jack’s deeply upset and his self-image is majorly impacted, and far from being sympathetic, Tim’s annoyed and kind of contemptuous of the idea that this is a problem.  Jack thinks fishing in the early morning and going to tennis matches is a fun father-son activity; Tim finds it exhausting and tedious.  And so on.

This means that Tim often longs to be closer to his dad in theory, but this longing is more tied to fantasy than to reality. He rarely seems to enjoy spending time with His-Dad-The-Actual-Person.  So for example, when Tim’s deadly ill with the Clench, he has an extremely poignant fever dream about telling his dad the truth and getting hugged…even as he insists in real-life to Alfred and Dick that he does not want them to tell his dad what’s going on.

The same is true of Jack, who IMO genuinely wants to be closer to his son and is continually declaring that he’s going to turn over a new leaf and get closer to his son…and just as continually backs out of activities or loses his temper when faced with spending time with his actual son.

Tim and his dad sadly get along best—by far—in Absence Makes the Heart Grow Fonder situations.  When Jack gets kidnapped or is in danger, Tim worries for him (and Tim grieves him deeply when he dies).  When Tim disappears or runs away, Jack’s genuinely worried about him.  So e.g. they have a really moving emotional reunion and hug when the earthquake hits Gotham, and Tim panics about his dad’s safety and comes running home (and meanwhile Jack’s been panicked about Tim’s safety!).  It’s the day-to-day, regular life stuff where they don’t connect.

Jack's written quite differently by different writers. Mostly, Tim's parents are at their least likable in his early appearances and early miniseries (this is where you get, for example, Jack and Janet being nasty at each other while a pained employee looks on, and Tim disappointed to once again get news of where his parents are via postcard - "I guess that sums them up! Never know where they’re going to be–or when–or even how long!” - and Tim alone on school break, and Bruce and Alfred thinking there's something weird going on with Tim's parents, etc. etc.). Jack's more sympathetic but still often unlikable in most of Tim's Robin solo, and he's almost invisible (but positively treated if he does show up) in Tim's team books.

For obvious reasons, Jack's remembered way more sympathetically after his death. Tim's completely devastated by Jack's murder, which he arrives moments too late to prevent, and he basically never gets over it. We see him grieving Jack again and again in Robin, and also in Teen Titans, and also in Resurrection, and again in the Halloween Special, and again in Batman: Blackest Night, and all the way up to the end of Red Robin. Tim also grieves for an extended time over Janet - he hallucinates a happy reunion with her when he's feverish in Contagion, and hallucinates her in the final issue of Robin, and the reveal-your-buried-emotions song in Robin 102 brings up his grief for her too (meanwhile, other characters dance or laugh or otherwise get giddy).  Tim’s grief over his parents’ deaths is intense and long-lasting.

I'm not going to clip comic panels because this is long enough, but if you're curious, here's a nice and fairly lengthy compilation of comic panels with Tim and Jack.

If you're interested in a Jack-centric story with a softer-but-still-recognizably-canon take on Jack, I really like the way Jack’s narration is written in the one-shots Heart Humble (set shortly before Jack dies) and Never a Hero (Ra's resurrects him during Brucequest, and Jack's archeology skills turn out to be unexpectedly useful).

[st4rstudent]

centipede brian feels alot like glados from portal (in a good way) it’s probably the cocky smart attitude that lacks hesitation to mock somebody

they both love insulting! The difference is that Glados at least has something to back it up with.

[letters-of-libertas]

I'm bi and yeah your note on women not having solidarity seems sadly true. Apart from not dating men would there be anything you would suggest to improve ones life apart from stating away from those women if possible?

I love this question because this is how to start thinking: being practical.

What it takes to "improve ones life" is subjective so with that said firstly define what a better life(style) for yourself away from moids would look like. Temporarily mentally remove xy terrorist existence. What would your habits/routine be? What would you work towards & pour your energy into? What would you want to be? What would you center your life around? Take your time with these questions or anymore that come up. Have a general idea then be more specific and start breaking your life down into sectors/sections/areas, then look at where you want to be in those areas and work towards it.

For example; I divide my life into 6-7 aspects:

Physical Strength - Not just about muscle but knowing how to fight, where to hit and when to fight. Being stronger makes it easier to defend yourself in altercations (especially with other women). Some mfs will try you & you cant always rely on others coming to your rescue. Also work on building stamina to help endurance, and keeping as healthy as possible.

Emotional Strength - If you cant control your emotions they will control you. In a world of chaos being emotionally strong will let you cut through the noise and focus on what truly matters. Building emotional strength is not easy but it's worth it. Being able to rise above immediate reactions and pace yourself will allow you to assess situations more rationally & make more beneficial choices.

Finances - Get your bag up. Having money to gain resources is imperative to quality of life. I dont care what anyone says having a certain amount of money in life WILL make you happier as you're able to meet your needs better. Having more money/resources also makes it easier to support other women should you choose to do so, it also allows you to be more influential and have more control over your life. However, dont become a slave to getting money tho because that's how you get scammed.

Network - The type of people you hang around can make or break who you are as a person. Aim to connect with likeminded women who will encourage & inspire you as you go on this journey. Hang around people that value & will be honest with you while giving you grace. Not all women you engage with have to be single & childfree but beware the moid crazy ones because they will bring danger to you in their quest for maIe validation. Life isn't perfect but you cant go wrong having the right people around you, valuable relationships are hard to find but it goes a long way even if it's just online. However, no company > bad company.

Spirituality/Guide - Having something bigger than yourself to guide you through the chaos in this world can offer guidance/purpose that keeps you grounded & focused. For many people generally this is religion/god. Not everyone needs or ascribes to religion/spirituality though, but at least consider sets of morals/beliefs to follow. However even that isn't for everyone. So if you feel better off without spirituality or a 'higher' guide at least be clear on it & your reasons why (for yourself).

Hobbies & Interests - As turbulent as the world is, find things to enjoy amidst the chaos. Constant work, doom, and gloom will not change anything you will only hurt yourself. Take time to indulge in things that make you happy to recharge & relax. Engage in hobbies that serve you, share your passion with other women & hear theirs out too. It goes a long way in terms of mental health.

Security - It takes privilege to decide to not get married or have children as a woman & live it out. Everyone's situation is different so what I'll generally suggest is to constantly look into how you can protect yourself, have backup methods, and stay in the loop of xy predation. Dont drown in it but moids are predators & being completely blind to them is being blind to danger. Elaborated on point 10 here.

Sounds like a lot? Great, it'll keep you busy because this isn't a vacation or destination but a lifestyle. And to be honest, some of y'all can do with the busyness as it'll let you focus on what actually matters. This not to say to overwhelm yourself in things for the sake of it but to prioritise your energy on effective things for your life. As you focus on building you'll find that you have less energy to care about insignificant stuff or stuff out of your control anyways. For example, Instead of getting wound up about user somerandomadjectivefem stirring discourse calling you an extremist or whining about how impossible it is for her & other women to live without romantic love n' whatnot (or even women irl pulling this crap), you either ignore or quickly shut down the conversation & swiftly move on.

Everything I've mentioned are just examples, you may feel differently do whatever you feel best applies. Also remember to enjoy the process along the way as you are living through it afterall :3

Long story short: Work on building resources & other aspects of your life up for yourself.

[impostorsshow]

I'm actually so obsessed with him it's not even funny if i'm not listening to a TikTok or music directly related to him I can't focus free me free me

This is @/cherubpuppet's OC for a object show [au? pitch? wip show? How do I categorize this] and I've been destroyed by the fact that ruler art is infinitely superior [and 10x longer] and i don't have a good enough grasp on lip gloss's personality to make fanfiction so I am frozen in "want make fanart but fanart takes effort :["

[wildstar25]

What physical part(s) of Arsay does her partners find the most attractive! Is it the same for all partners or does it differ between them?

(also optional bonus ask of what part(s) of/about Arsay generally do they love the most, physical or not!)

Meanwhile, if you were to ask the same of Arsay:

[fellhellion]

apologies for yosukeposting and especially incoherently but slowboiling in my brain whatever the hell was going on w him in kanji’s dungeon. guy who slingshots between some kinda fraught observation that this is so much worse for kanji because it’s happening in front of an audience (over like. freaking out about it), furiously asserting that he’s heterosexual, insinuating danger but then also being the one who volunteers to take kanji home afterwards.

It’s sooooooooooooooo.

[giantkillerjack]

After learning about the video game "CONTROL" and watching Julia LePetit-Drawfee play it, I have amended my views on brutalist architecture.

I used to think that brutalist architecture was a completely miserable and hideous style of architecture to expect human beings to exist in or around, with absolutely no acceptable applications.

But NOW I think that brutalist architecture is a completely miserable and hideous style of architecture to expect human beings to exist in or around, which is actually quite suitable for a visually striking video game about a living building that fucking hates you and is actively trying to kill you and everyone in it. ✅ ✅ ✅

I'm being silly but tbh anyone who disagrees with me can go ahead and spend 10 years commuting in the dingy gray concrete brutalist dimness of the DC metro system and then fucking get back to me.

[burning-academia-if]

Hi! What are the powers of each ro? what makes them "special" and mc?

I won't give a super detailed explanation since Rhea already went into all of it in Chapter 1 but a quick recap: You're either born with magic or you aren't.

If you are, you're a magician. There's three types; Soul magicians (magic comes from intentions/morals/beliefs, considered the most powerful, magic can have harmful effects on their body), Heart magicians (magic comes from emotions, less powerful, magic can visibly be seen in use), and Luck magicians (have magic in their veins but can't use it, since they still have magic the world seems to like them and 'lucky' things happen to them, hence the term).

BA has a pretty soft magic system, so you can theoretically do w/e you want with magic with certain limits. Soul magicians can't use magic at all if it goes against their beliefs + it can hurt their bodies. Heart magicians magic is as powerful as the emotions they're currently feeling. Heart magicians are also the only ones compatible with Death Creatures (ghosts, wraiths, poltergeists, etc), although that's pretty rare and no one knows why. With all that said:

Soul Magicians: Rook and Rhea

Heart Magicians: Beck and Lars

Luck Magician: Zoe

Not a magician: ??? and MC

Beck and Lars are both special because their magic is compatible with Death, but they're still Heart Magicians and so their magic is seen as weaker. Rook's magic...isn't strong, and Rhea's magic is average. ??? isn't a magician and can't use magic at all. What MC can do is up to you since there are a few options. You can find a magic item to use (making you a mage), you can get into necromancy, or you can pick the terrible decision to make a deal with something to use magic (making you a warlock). You can also not do any of that and remain without magic/death abilities. Each decision has their own unique consequences.

It should also be noted Death and Magic are opposites of each other, so necromancy isn't considered magic in this world. If anything, it's just blasphemy lol

[imminent-danger-came]

Okay so, if LBD was "I will completely demolish this system to build a new one", and Azure was "I will use the system for my benefit to improve the system", what do we think our new antagonist will be

[basuralindo]

Hey do you think Jamil has trouble seeing people his age as peers?

Like, growing up having to be a caretaker to a guy literally a few months older than him, always expected to act like the adult in the situation, expected to work with adults and adopt their perspectives and pick up their slack. Do you think he just, forgets sometimes?

I mean we've seen him go into caretaker mode with other sophomores, and the only people I've seen him take seriously are juniors like Vil who also act much older than they should have to (his reactions to Leona look more like a trauma response and I don't wanna get into it here). People like Malleus and Cater still somewhat get the caretaker treatment. Like I just highly doubt that he subconsciously realizes he's actually part of his age group

Aaand that inevitably brings up Azul, who also acts like he thinks he's older than he is. Whether you're looking at it from a shipping angle or not, he reacts to Azul like an actual peer. With older students, he seems more in his element but there's still a status hierarchy which he compulsively reacts to. With Azul he doesn't acknowledge any status worth respecting or see him as someone who needs to be looked after. He just bickers like an equal, in a way that implies he actually does see Azul as a real peer, like subconsciously he's categorized this guy into the same group as himself, who was previously alone on that level (he gets like this more with the twins too, over time, but it seems to start with Azul).

And my favorite part about this is, while that response stems from them both acting more like adults in general, they elicit a pettiness from each other which drags them both down to actually acting their own age, and I just love that. Their characters are perfect foils for each other and it seems to make them both less isolated in a way.

[alistonjdrake]

Instead of reblogging that post again I’m gonna put this in the air (and for organization reasons) I am putting together a “accountability” writing group for nano. I’ll host it on discord, it’ll be low commitment because I work full time but I want it to be a space for encouragement, check-ins, writing sprints, either weekly or biweekly “workshops” depending on how the schedule works out (and those will mostly be either glorified brainstorming sessions or “hey this is what’s currently happening/this is where I’m stuck”. If any of this sounds interesting to you let me know! I’m already gathering a list for my last post

[radio-4-is-static]

RED OUT | Kenshi Yonezu

鮮血煌めいて跳ねるスタインウェイ & サンズ 頭の中鳴り止まない砕けたバックビート 零コンマーで褪せてしまう情景 どうした地獄じゃあるまいに そんな目で見んな

///

Blood glistens, and the Steinway & Sons bounces A frenzied backbeat hammers in my head A sight that blackens in 0.1 seconds What’s with you? It’s not like this is hell Don’t give me that look

[mantisgodsdomain]

We ought to write more Pokemon fic some time. We want to recreate the Pokemon Manners/Human Manners cheat sheet that we made a few years ago we think that this site would like the Sliding Scale Of Politeness When Greeting A New Pokemon You've Never Met Before.

[extrajigs]

Why did the vhimeras leave Mirum?

I gotta do a LOOONG post for that but the gist is. There was a pretty big civil war in Mirum over the chimeras assumed superiority. Post Godfall and post isolationism, chimera got pretty powerful and influential in the world with their retention of casting abilities. They heavily developed Mirum via magics and did some kinda egregious sophont? rights violations before being turned on by the other residents and expelled. Dude to their inability to really replenish their population as well as deep ideological schisms within their ranks they weren't able to come together to hold their lands and had to abandon Mirum.

Partially why most chimera clans are very pacifistic nowadays is because the more aggressive clans were killed off in the war.