#tolkien theory time

[whiteladyofithilien]

The wielders of the three rings all three had the opportunity to seize the one...

We know Galadriel and Gandalf's fears about how it would turn them into a second Sauron but I wonder what Elrond's dark side would have looked like? Elrond who twice in his life could have taken it. Once by force the other by nature of being its guardian had it been left in Rivendell. Is that part of the reason why he wouldn't have it stay in Rivendell? He was afraid of temptation or was he both wise and disinterested like Faramir.

[greenerteacups]

What do you think of jkr as a writer? I for one has always felt like she didn’t treat her female characters well. It felt strange, being critical of her when she was god queen of the earth, and also being 10

I think most of the problems in her books can be chalked up to genre hopping. Books 1-3 are perfectly good and serviceable children's books — great children's books, even! They have compelling, relatable characters and juicy mystery plots. They have problems, sure, but for the first three books someone's ever written — especially someone with little or no background in creative writing — they're really fucking good. So: there's her flowers.

The last four books pivot sharply into much more emotionally complicated and sociopolitically loaded territory, because they're describing a war. And it's hard to write children's books about war. I would venture you can't really do it, at least without dramatically misrepresenting what war is! And so Rowling makes the executive decision somewhere during the writing of Book 4 that she's not going to flinch away from that, she's going to go for dramatic realism, and she kills Cedric Diggory to let us know. People had died in Harry Potter before, of course — Quirrell gets sent to the fucking shadow realm, for example. But children haven't. (It also gives parents who are reading these books with their children a warning shot: shit is about to get significantly more real, think twice before you buy the next one of these for your 10-year-old.) After that, Rowling starts leaning much more into dramatic realism, and the fast-paced mystery-novel plotting of the first few books is replaced by a slow, simmering political conflict that unfurls over the course of about a million words.

The problem — besides the fact that she's picking one of the hardest things to write about, like, in all of literature, war is really insanely complicated and emotionally intense and hard to portray well — is that she's now trying to use characters, plot points, and technologies she developed for a children's series to enact a sprawling war drama among teenagers and adults. So Hermione, who was a reasonably precocious snobby eleven-year-old, becomes this sort of encyclopedic all-knowing savant of the wizarding world, who somehow remains functional and mostly even-headed despite her identity being the chief target of a prolifically murderous terrorist group. Draco Malfoy, a schoolyard bully whose primary tools included 1. namecalling and 2. telling teacher, JOINS said terrorist group (and admittedly does react reasonably, i.e., has a total crashout and takes to sobbing in a girls' bathroom whenever he gets a free minute). Dumbledore, who starts out as "whimsical friendly winky-wink trustworthy grandfather type", ends up being Magical Winston Churchill in a violent game of spycraft and espionage, eventually revealing he's only been keeping Harry at all these seven years because he wants to KILL him! And like, maybe really good technical writing could smooth out these transitions and make the first-order dramatic choices seem more natural, but Rowling is like, a Fine Writer, technically speaking. meaning she's reasonably consistent in characterization, her plotting is well-paced and believable, she has a clear authorial voice, and her prose is readable. personally, that's not enough to get me to buy into some of the changes that happen in the later books, and because she stuffs these things so full with new elements every installment, a lot of stuff ends up getting glossed over.

And like, I still love the books. I think they're wonderful, and they taught me how to read. but i can say that and also say that Rowling probably did herself a disservice by trying to write four giant war novels as sequels to her first three mystery children's books.

[elffromforests]

The Rings of Power 2x 5ep

NOOO . Shock. I am confused.

I am sure that Gil Galad's ring showed him three visions and the last one was about Gil Galad himself, about Gil Galad's death in Mordor. And the king understood it immediately. I am crying 😿

And that's why his expression changes and that's why he's a little depressed when he talks to Elrond.That is, rings do not show for the nearest time, but can show for a long period of time?

Now imagine that you are directly told and shown how you will die, but this is the only way to fight evil and you agree to these terms of the game. This is heroism 😥❤️

WTF

[eri-pl]

A long post about why chromaticism is awesome

(in the context of Ainulindale) and what Melkor did and what he didn't and what Rúmil got wrong

Because 17 of you voted for it, one for "don't care" and one for "we don't need anti-Melkor propaganda" which isn't true: we do need more anti-Melkor propaganda :D (Told you I'm going to ignore some of the votes! I like him ok? I just don't like what he did.) (It's not even particularly focused on that… )

So, long post below cut:

Inharmonious?

 it came into the heart of Melkor to interweave matters of his own imagining that were not in accord with the theme of Ilúvatar [to make himself more important]

Let me ask you a question: Did Melkor sing music that wa snot compatible with the theme of Ilúvatar? Yes, you say, 'tis in the quote.

Nay, I say. It came into his mind to do so. So he did try. But he did not do it, because it is not possible. He simply assumed that what he sang was fundamentally incompatibile. Also, it was too loud and badly timed and confused many of the Ainur. Yes, it was ugly and didn't work well. But it was not, on fundamental, harmonic level, incompatibile, as:

And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite

So: no. contrary to common way of talking about it in the fandom, Melkor didn't play anything fundamentally … how to phrase it? The themes were fundamentally good, just in wrong place and too loud.

["A lot of evil is a misprioritized good" is a thing that probably has a lot written about it already.]

The nature of discord

So, time for some music theory (Yay!)

"Discord" is Tolkien's word for "music I don't like, eg the Beatles and jazz", but generally, discordant notes mean notes that aren't part of the current harmony, or even part of the scale, and make spicy intervals with the notes that are already being played.

Except.

A better word for such notes is "dissonance" or "tension". Because they aren't inherently wrong or ugly. They are something that feels like it needs to be dealt with, they create more energy in the music.

Sure, a stiff classical music teacher (the kind who tries to be Mozartier than Mozart and cleans the trumpet only on the outside, you get the vibe) would tell you that you can't have a second, or a tritone (the famous "devil chord" allegedly) and so on.

That's not true.

You can have those, just not for long, and not too loud and they need to go somewhere and so on and so forth. But used properly, the tensions make music richer and alive.

(But of course when someone decides to be a jerk about it and plays them for too long and too loud… Every sensation made too long and too intense becomes pain, and empowering something that should be temporary always ends up badly.)

Fire isn't inherently wrong, but when it gets out of control and burns everything, it's bad. Cold isn't inherently wrong, but freezing to death is nasty. Change isn't wrong, but can be.

Well, "change isn't wrong" becomes true when there are imperfect beings: beings that can change without becoming less. Like, you know, mountains, and trees, and Men.

What was Melkor's calling?

I think it was to add tensions. But to add them in a normal amount. And this required him to do two things: a) to sing keeping the harmonic tension regardless of everyone else singing differently, and b) to not overdo it and frigging accept the fact that everyone else is singing together.

Well, he managed to do half of it. :F Yay. :F I'm gonna make him a sticker saying "you tried". :F

And yes, this is difficult. That's why the most powerful of the Ainur got the job! And he still messed it up. Because he preferred his pride than the actual job.

But yes, I believe his job was to sing "in discord", just politely. And then at the end on the Music get quiet and yield, because that's what you do with the tensions. And then go happily hang out with your fellow Ainur who would appreciate what he did. Because it's very much not "he was made evil", just "he was made different and other, and became evil by trying to make everything like him when he was supposed to be the contrast".

[Pause, because I made myself sad about how much he messed up such beautiful ideas]

Men (and Elves)

Rúmil says they were created only as a response to Melkor's discord. So, without evil there would be no free will, and no people. Right?

Wrong. Rúmil, go home and rethink your life.

If Melkor did what I described above, the themes would still be able to progress normally, just without drama. And we would have Men and Elves and whatnot, because I don't but a "people are inherently a result of evil" setting, my BS detector flares red on that. (Should I say "sorry"?)

I'm not going into "does free will need evil to exist, or just the possibility of evil or some secret third option" because I don't want to go into real-world philosophy with this post.

Chromaticism AKA: what do you mean "rarepair", it's not a rarepair!

OK, so back to the music theory. Remember when I said that dissonant notes are, among others, notes outside the scale? Those are called "chromatic tones" and are used to add more emotion to the music. Usually the sad types (and scary, yes, this too) of emotion.

So, Nienna. The Vala who, among other things said about her, gets probably the best, awesomest description line in the whole book. My fav. The gothy psychopompy evil-in-early-versions weird lady whose windows gaze West of the West, to Darkness. The edgiest but never crossing the edge (unlike you, Melkor!), the one who prefers to weep for so long than to rise in pride.

I love her so much.

Her reaction to Melkor's dissonance was to weep. And how do you weep in music? Chromaticism. Which is a type of dissonance, technically.

Oh, if only Melkor didn't get it into his head to try to court stalk and pester Varda… :(

Also, the text doesn't say that Nienna was one of the main singers in the Third Theme (like Manwë was in Second), but the vibes very much suggest it. And honestly, with a theme that's not finished it is honest to not discuss who was the star of it?… anyway she is closely tied with the Third Theme, I'm sure everyone will agree on that.

So yea, the Third Theme, I'm so veryveryvery about it *deep breath* I'll try to keep it on-topic

The one was deep and wide and beautiful, but slow and blended with an immeasurable sorrow, from which its beauty chiefly came.

I cannt imagine "immesurable sorrow" in music without chromatic tones. I don't care what Rúmil would say, I don't care what Tolkien would say, the Third Theme is (if we imagine it as not physically music: it is the metaphysical equivalent of) chromatic. It just is.

It's sad and subtle, and the description sounds very much like a minor scale, but don't get me into scales and chord types, because then I'll digress into places we pretend aren't part of the discussion.

But yea, "minor ending with a Picardy third" would be a good approximation of the general feel, I guess.

Oh, and do you know how do you make a chromatic thing work— how do you make any "dissonant" (in classical terms) chord work? (No, Melkor (and Stravinsky), not by repetition!!!)

You put it into open voicing.

So, what is open voicing? I'm glad you asked. Imagine you're playing on a piano. Open voicing is when the notes are far apart and you would need longer fingers to play them at the same time. It's generally the notes being far from each other in terms of pitch. This does reduce the dissonances, because for example C4 and D4 clash much more than C4 and D5. So you put the notes in separate octaves as much as possible and it works, and it makes a chord that would be clashing into a beautiful epic-sounding and generally awesome.

Now, ask yourself: Where have we seen (heard?) about something like that? Because we have.

and in one chord, deeper than the Abyss, higher than the Firmament, piercing as the light of the eye of Ilúvatar, the Music ceased

OK, you can argue that the "deeper and higher" mean it is wide, but it doesn't imply that it's a chromatic chord. the implication goes only one way. True.

But "piercing"? Can a purely diatonic chord feel piercing? IDK

…is diatonic/chromatic even still a question at this point?

So, chromatic is a good thing, right? So, Melkor—

Noo… Not like that. Chromaticism is like— like fire. Or electricity. It can make good thigs better, and beautiful things more beautiful, but it's tricky, and needs to be used properly.It's like admin mode on your computer. Like "see advanced settings" button.

Also, Melkor did …provoke (for lack of a better wors) chromaticism in the Music, but his song on its own is the very opposite of chromatic. Which is sad and ties very well to one of my earlier posts.

He's not nuanced. He's just

had now achieved a unity of its own; but it was loud, and vain, and endlessly repeated; and it had little harmony, but rather a clamorous unison as of many trumpets braying upon a few notes

which is as non-chromatic as you can probably get :(

I made myself sad again, end of post.

Edit: Yeah, no, I went to take a morning (noon) shower and ofc realized there's a lot of it left. Like: why is Melkor-being-not-chromatic a sad thing if the chromaticism is tricky?

So, to be explored in a next post some day:

the ("dynamic" says too little, "self-defeating" claims too much... complicated?) nature of dissonant non-classic chords

the nature of Men, their out-of-FateMusic-ness and how does that relate to chromatic and non-chord tones and music in general

idk, probably more

[gwaedhannen]

Thus ended Nirnaeth Arnoediad, as the sun went down beyond the sea. Night fell in Hithlum, and there came a great storm of wind out of the West.

Hey so the fuck's with this windstorm anyway. The capitalization of West makes it clear it's coming from Aman and presumably Manwë, so is it:

A "we warned you" to the Noldor?

A "time to run" warning to the people of Hithlum whose first knowledge of the defeat would instead be Orcs and Easterlings?

Clearing away the cloud of smoke that Morgoth generated at the start of the battle?

A "we're still watching" warning to Morgoth?

A completely coincidental natural storm accidentally attributed to the Valar?

[queerofthedagger]

my 'hey yes we have an all-consuming brainrot going but let's try and do something actually productive this week that I'm having off of work' project is sorting through my bookshelves, rigorously throwing things out (little miss I own over a thousand books in my one-room apartment is reaching the breaking point aka I'm finally and utterly running out of space) and i think i threw out almost a hundred books today and it's still not anywhere close for sorting shelves by genre without having to stack and put things second row. how am I supposed to live like this

[fatcatlittlebox]

I don't think they'd go as far as trying to insinuate that Celebrian is his. There are limits to the lore they can break, especially in regards to the Tolkien estate, who have set their limits and lines that can't be crossed. It would never happen. I love my Haladriels, truly I do, but as a fan of the Silmarillion and Tolkiens extended works, I'm begging yall to touch some grass here. I do not exclude the idea that he'll show her a version of their future where they are ruling together, where they might share a tender kiss, and maybe in that vision, Celebrian would exist as his daughter, though this could not be said outright.

You know everything. Ok well then we’ll just see. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[sillylotrpolls]

(Credit and a truly absurd amount of context below the poll in case you don't know who the Old Took is.)

Today's poll looks at a question posed by @sindar-princeling:

Bilbo barely passed Old Took's record lifespan after having a supernaturally-life-extending ring for 60 years. which begs a question. what the hell did Old Took do

In the notes on that post, the most popular theory by far was espoused by @mitsuhachiinthehive, who posited that Gandalf hooked up with a hobbit at some point and [some of] the Tooks are his descendants. This idea was further spread thanks to @the-haiku-bot.

Additional theories which I cribbed for poll options:

The diamond cufflinks were magical in more ways than one @elodieunderglass

He drank an ent-draught courtesy of the missing ent wives @betterofflost

He got hold of a random magic elven ring @morgulscribe

If you would like some a lot of context from canon so you can decide for yourself, more information about the Old Took is beneath the cut.

First off, it's established multiple times in the books what a big deal it was for Bilbo to beat Old Took's record. From The Return of the King:

He opened his eyes and looked up as they came in. 'Hullo, hullo!' he said. 'So you've come back? And tomorrow's my birthday, too. How clever of you! Do you know, I shall be one hundred and twenty-nine? And in one year more, if I am spared, I shall equal the Old Took. I should like to beat him; but we shall see.' [...] Little Elanor was nearly six months old, and 1421 had passed to its autumn, when Frodo called Sam into the study. 'It will be Bilbo's Birthday on Thursday, Sam,' he said. 'And he will pass the Old Took. He will be a hundred and thirty-one!' 'So he will!' said Sam. 'He's a marvel!'

Here's a biography on the old hobbit from Tolkien Gateway:

After the death of his father in 1248, Gerontius became the twenty-sixth Thain of the Shire. He was a friend of Gandalf, who gave him a pair of magic diamond studs and performed firework tricks during Gerontius' midsummer-eve parties. Gerontius Took reached the impressive age of 130, which made him the oldest Hobbit until his grandson Bilbo Baggins celebrated his 131st Birthday. He also held the record of most offspring, until Samwise Gamgee bested him with Tom's birth in S.R. 1442.

And from Tolkien Gateway's page on the Took Family:

Tooks were mainly of Fallohide Hobbit stock, and had quite a reputation for unusual behavior (among other things being more adventurous than the other Hobbits), a quality not valued in the Shire. For this they would be seen as less respectable, but those traits were "tolerated" thanks to their large numbers and wealth. An absurd legend among other families, was that one of the Took ancestors married a fairy. The Wizard Gandalf was a known, if disreputable, associate.

Here we have Gandalf introducing himself to Bilbo in The Hobbit. Note that Belladonna Took is one of the Old Took's 12 (!!) children.

“Yes, yes, my dear sir—and I do know your name, Mr. Bilbo Baggins. And you do know my name, though you don’t remember that I belong to it. I am Gandalf, and Gandalf means me! To think that I should have lived to be good-morninged by Belladonna Took’s son, as if I was selling buttons at the door!” “Gandalf, Gandalf! Good gracious me! Not the wandering wizard that gave Old Took a pair of magic diamond studs that fastened themselves and never came undone till ordered? Not the fellow who used to tell such wonderful tales at parties, about dragons and goblins and giants and the rescue of princesses and the unexpected luck of widows’ sons? Not the man that used to make such particularly excellent fireworks! I remember those! Old Took used to have them on Midsummer’s Eve. Splendid! They used to go up like great lilies and snapdragons and laburnums of fire and hang in the twilight all evening!” You will notice already that Mr. Baggins was not quite so prosy as he liked to believe, also that he was very fond of flowers. “Dear me!” he went on. “Not the Gandalf who was responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures? Anything from climbing trees to visiting elves—or sailing in ships, sailing to other shores! Bless me, life used to be quite inter—I mean, you used to upset things badly in these parts once upon a time. I beg your pardon, but I had no idea you were still in business.” “Where else should I be?” said the wizard. “All the same I am pleased to find you remember something about me. You seem to remember my fireworks kindly, at any rate, and that is not without hope. Indeed for your old grandfather Took’s sake, and for the sake of poor Belladonna, I will give you what you asked for.”

And for context, Sam was 102 when he sailed West, Merry was at least 103 and almost certainly older when he died, and Pippin at least 95. The uncertainty is because Tolkien describes their last years thus in the Appendices:

1484 In the spring of the year a message came from Rohan to Buckland that King Éomer wished to see Master Holdwine once again. Meriadoc was then old (102) but still hale. He took counsel with his friend the Thain [Pippin], and soon after they handed over their goods and offices to their sons and rode away over the Sam Ford, and they were not seen again in the Shire. It was heard after that Master Meriadoc came to Edoras and was with King Éomer before he died in that autumn. Then he and Thain Peregrin went to Gondor and passed what short years were left to them in that realm, until they died and were laid in Rath Dínen among the great of Gondor. 1541 In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of King Elessar. It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king. Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in the Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.

[eldal0te]

Wait holy shit, hear me out

What if Gildor Inglorion is Aegnor? Who somehow did not die in Dagor Bragollach?

Not only does he get to (secretly) live with Andreth for some more time like that but also? It would kind of make sense?

Both Aegnor and this version of Gildor are the third sons. If we go by the old names (such as in Lay of Leithian) then the house of Finrod is literally the house of Arafinwe.

He is also likely to have left the Middle Earth on the same ship as Galadriel… almost as if he’d be making the way with his sister?

i have such a soft spot for arafinwean genealogy from home v and early lotr. you have the one and only inglor felagund, lord of caves, friend-of-men, king of nargothrond who is remembered by everyone well into the third age. then, there is galadriel, the eldest daughter, dad's little magician and an overachiever, who had decided that there are too many elven royals per square mile in beleriand and went over the blue mountains to found her very own realm, which would totally be better, more wondrous than dad's. his middle child is the famous gil-galad, star of radiance, the responsible one, who rules the elves of the west (like his father), dwells in the fair and free realm between the mountains and the sea (like his father) and has a phd in quendi-dunedain diplomatic relations (like his father). and enigmatic gildor inglorion is the quintessential youngest child, free to wander the woods, play his little harp, give sage advice to strangers and occasionally scare some monsters to death with songs about light of aman.

these three also make ruining sauron's day their hobby, and (mostly) succeed.

[apoloadonisandnarcissus]

The Physicality of Sauron x Galadriel: Cosmic Connection and Physical Attraction

We already heard the expression “cosmical connection” a million times, and even I already discussed that in this post. Expressions like “higher beings” and such have been used by the actors and show producers to describe Sauron and Galadriel’s connection.

And, then, we have this iconic moment:

What does this “cosmic connection” means? Both Galadriel and Sauron/Mairon are immortal spirits. Mairon, as a Maia, is one of the Ainur, and one of the forces who first shaped the world, alongside the Valar (Ainulindalë or “Music of the Ainur”). He’s ancient, being around since the Days before Days (before the world was created).

Galadriel was born during the Years of the Trees, thousands of years later. And she’s of one the Children of Ilúvatar, an Elf. Her grandparents were among the first Elves created by Eru to live in Valinor.

What’s the difference?

Mairon belongs to the Unseen world, because he is, up and foremost, a spiritual being. And like all Maiar and Valar, he can choose his physical form (Halbrand, Annatar, etc.) in the Seen world. And he’s not bound to it, but these forms are all the same spirit. Hence the big focus on “Halbrand is Sauron” in Season 2, and even Charlie Vickers said many times in recent interviews how he wanted to show that continuity between both characters in his interpretation of Sauron in Season 2.

Galadriel belongs to the Seen world, and cannot chose her physical form. She’s bound to the one she was born with (in this sense, Elves are pretty much like Men, who are also Children of Ilúvatar). In the Third age, Galadriel can move between the Seen and Unseen world, but that’s not the case when she and Mairon first meet.

Let’s see what happens when Maiar and Elves fall in love:

Melian and Thingol

In the Valaquenta, we were introduced to some Maiar of interest. Melian was one of these. She’s a Maia to Vána (Vala of preserving youth and of fauna and flora on Middle-earth, also known as “Queen of Flowers”) and Estë (Vala of healing and purveyor or restful sleep). Melian dwells on the gardens of Lórien, and has a magical voice, great wisdom and was beloved by all. Birds, especially nightingales (her signature friends) surround her at all times. Around the time the Elves are created by Eru, she ventures across the Sundering Seas and arrives on Middle-earth.

Centuries later, the Teleri are the third or the Elf clans (alongside the Noldor and the Vanyar) to take the Great Journey, from Valinor to Middle-earth. Their leader, Elwë (Thingol) has the habit of wandering the woods by himself. One day, he ventures a forest called Nan Elmoth, in Beleriand. And there she meets Melian, and he was absolutely smitten.

“Enchantment” falls on him, and when he actually hears Melian’s voice, it’s all over. Her song fills “all his heart with wonder and desire.” And this is before he actually sees her: when he finally does set eyes on her, he’s at awe, because the “light of Aman” is reflected in her face.

Love overtakes Thingol, completely. He takes Melina’s hand, and “straightway a spell is laid on him.” Suddenly his plans (to reunite with his friend Finwë, to lead his people to Valinor, to dwell again in the light of the Two Trees) just disappear. He forgets everyone and everything. Thingol and Melian just stand there, looking at each others’ eyes, hands clasped, and perfectly still, for (according to some sources) 200 years. The trees grown tall around them. And no one knows Thingol is there, so his people search for him in Beleriand, in vain.

Since this event seem so over the top, many speculate that an actual spell, indeed, fall upon Thingol, even thought Tolkien gives no indication of him being “enslaved” or joining with Melian against his will. Anyway, one theory is that this meeting was orchestrated by Eru himself, because many key events happened because of it. Meaning, they were “doomed” to meet and fall in love:

Thingol and Melian will go on to establish the first of the organized Elven kingdoms of Middle-earth, in Beleriand, and rule it as Queen and King: Doriath (and their people are known as the “Sindar”);

They will have a child, described as “fairest of all the Children of Ilúvatar that ever was or shall ever be”: Lúthien, who would help in defeating both Morgoth and Sauron in the future.

In order to be with Thingol (= have sex with him), Melian retained her physical form, and became bound to it after conceiving a child with him. Meaning she couldn’t access the Unseen world, anymore (= return to her true spiritual form).

“Rings of Power” created a parallel of Thingol and Melian’s first meeting with Galadriel and Mairon, throughout Season 1:

Then an enchantment fell on him, and he stood still; and afar off beyond the voices of the lómelindi he heard the voice of Melian, and it filled all his heart with wonder and desire.

He forgot then utterly all his people and all the purposes of his mind, and following [the sound] and was lost

But he came at last to a glade open to the stars, and there Melian stood; and out of the darkness he looked at her, and the light of Aman was in her face. She spoke no word;

[…] but being filled with love Elwë came to her and took her hand,

[…] and straightway a spell was laid on him so that they stood.

[…] thus while long years were measured by the wheeling stars above them; [not only are they outside, but Galadriel armor has a star sigil – and, no, this is not Fëanor’s sigil, it’s a different design] 

[...]; and the trees of Nan Elmoth grew tall and dark before they spoke any word

Like Thingol and Melian, there is no need for words between them. They look into each others’ eyes and feel it (“I’ve felt it too”). This makes it hard for the audience to understand what is happening between them, but it is what it is.

However, I think this was *the moment* when they truly saw the extent of their mutual feelings for each other; when their souls are merging due to being bound together (via Morgoth’s crown). Which explains their reactions here: Galadriel is shocked, and Mairon is in happy disbelief. “Wait- you’re actually in love with me?”

Galadriel thinks Sauron is evil incarnate, she’s not shocked because he stabbed her, come on.

Which, again, explains this expression over here. This is pure joy, and he has tears on his eyes: Mairon believes that Galadriel is about to join him, and they are going to run into Mordor the sunset together.

Cosmic connection and Physical attraction

Galadriel belongs to the Seen world, the same as Thingol. But their Maiar pair, Melian and Mairon, are from the Unseen world. Meaning: are these connections only spiritual (“cosmically”) or they have a physical component (“lust”), too?

We know that Thingol and Melian went physical with theirs, because they had a child together. Since Thingol is from the Seen world (and cannot access the Unseen world) he’s both a physical and spiritual being (Elf) but he’s only spiritual after the death of his physical body. The same with Galadriel.

Both Maiar and Valar are capable of feeling love and lust in Tolkien lore. We see this not only with Melian, but with all Valar couples. We also see Melkor/Morgoth lusting after Lúthien when he saw her dancing for him (this implies a very physical sentiment).

Then Morgoth looking upon her beauty [Lúthien] conceived in his thought an evil lust, and a design more dark than any that had yet come into his heart since he fled from Valinor. Thus he was beguiled by his own malice, for he watched her, leaving her free for a while, and taking secret pleasure in his thought. Lúthien dances for Morgoth on his Dark Throne [before she puts him and all the host of Angband to sleep with her magic singing]

In other works describing this episode, Tolkien goes on using words like “lust”, “hunger”, “blinding thrist”, “pleasure”, and stressing the importance of Morgoth trying to reach out for Lúthien with his hand (= he wants to touch her). Meaning, there is a real physical element at play here (even if it’s evil and diabolical).

Mairon himself got pretty “touchy” with Galadriel back in Season 1. This is not random, and this implies the connection between them was not only “cosmical”; Mairon, a spiritual being, wanted to touch Galadriel, meaning, there was as a physical element/attraction there, too.

We also saw this with Mirdania in Season 2, the she-elf of Eregion who reminded him of Galadriel, and was used as a plot device for the audience to see that Galadriel is always on Mairon’s mind.

Meaning: yes, Mairon wants to “shake the sheets” (or the table forge) with Galadriel. It’s not only “cosmical” or “spiritual”. He desires her, on a physical level, too.

Mairon, the Maia of Aulë

To understand the physical attraction, we need to go back to the beginning of Mairon himself.

Mairon was created by Eru as a Maia of Aulë, the Vala of smithing and handiwork. He was among the most powerful Maiar, and the purest one, too. Eru created him to be good and loyal, but also to love several things: crafting and creation (smithing), beauty, order and perfection, and to dislike wastefulness. These were, most likely, Mairon’s contributions to shape the world in the Ainulindalë.

Melkor/Morgoth used Mairon’s love of order and perfection to corrupt him, and turned it into an obsession with domination and control. Morgoth corrupted his goodness and loyalty into evil and treachery (turning him into “the great deceiver”). His love of beauty corrupted into ugliness, by the breeding of the Orcs. Mairon’s greatest virtues became his downfall.

And who better embodies the qualities of “beauty” and “perfection” than Galadriel herself? Her beauty is the stuff of legends, and everyone is at awe when they first meet her. Her very gold/silver hair inspired the most legendary jewels in existence: the Silmarils. The light of the Two Trees of Valinor shine on her hair and eyes.

We also see Galadriel connected with “smithing”: she’s the object of the love and lust of the two legendary Elven smiths: Fëanor and Celebrimbor (Brimby in Tolkien lore, not in “Rings of Power”). Fëanor was inspired by how the light caught her hair to create the Silmarils; and he asked her for a few strands of hair, three times, and three times she denied him. In the Third age, Galadriel would gift strands of her hair to Gimli, a Dwarf, a Child of Aulë (the Dwarves were created by Aulë himself; another connection to smithing and to Mairon’s original Vala).

Yes, "Rings of Power" really went there. All the paralells.

Galadriel is also connected with power, something Mairon liked from the beginning, too (which caused Melkor to target him and get him to his side). She's not only power-hungry, but she's powerful, herself, and will only grow in power as the years go by. She's a natural leader, proud and rebellious; she was born to rule (literally, because her father was High King of the Noldor in Valinor, she’s an actual princess).

Just like Thingol and Melian!

Galadriel was also a pupil of Aulë and his wife Yavanna, back in Valinor. Which means, that if Mairon wasn’t corrupted by Morgoth/Melkor and he didn’t betray the Valar, they would have met, then. And what would have happened? Galadriel would never marry Celeborn, in the first place, that’s for sure (they met on Middle-earth, not in Valinor). And if sparkles happened in Middle-earth, in the most antagonist of scenarios (with Mairon already corrupted), OG Mairon and Artanis (Galadriel’s original name) meeting would set Aulë’s forge on fire. Artanis would have the most enviable jewelry collection in all of Arda. Because Mairon would gift her and worship her, nonstop: I will place crown(s) upon your head. I will never rest until all Arda had been brought to its knees, to worship the light of its Queen.

The “what ifs” don’t stop here. Because Artanis and Mairon power couple would parallel Yavanna and Aulë, too. Yavanna, Aulë’s wife and queen, “Queen of the Earth”, physical form is described: “in the form of a woman she is tall, and robed in green (…) crowned with the Sun; and from all its branches there spilled a golden dew upon the earth.”

Wild how “Rings of Power” already went there. Several times:

In fact, the first regal outfit we see Galadriel wear in "Rings of Power" is a teal (greenish-blue) cape and a gold dress. And she's wearing a gold flower crown. All hail, Queen Artanis, stronger than the foundations of the earth? Interesting choice of words, because Aulë created the "foundations of the earth" (= mountains).

In 2x02, we see Galadriel planting flowers, while wearing green and with a gold leaf crown on her head (as she was meant to be):

How could Mairon not love her? That’s the real question. Galadriel is the materialization, the physical form, of everything he was designed to love. And she can’t change her physical form, mind you. She belongs to the Seen world.

And this was probably the reason why Eru brought them together, in the first place: for Mairon to recall his original purpose. And probably to rub on his face what he lost for being a evil b*tch and side with Melkor. Galadriel is already bound to another (Celeborn) in the eyes of the Valar and the Eldar. The only way to “undone” that is for the Valar themselves to give permission.

[thexphial]

My wife and I just had a very high conversation about the origins of potatoes in Middle Earth, and have come up with three theories:

Tolkien just translated the word for some lost species of tuber into potato for us modern humans

The elves took a boat to the West, found South America, and brought back potatoes

The entwives gave up sentience for the privilege of becoming the most nutritious edible plant of all time.

Vote for your favorite

[whiteladyofithilien]

Tolkien Theory Time

I posit that in the Palantir one of the many possible futures Sauron caused Lord Denethor to see was a future that when both his sons had died there was no hope for Gondor. That this was somehow a sign of things he had seen. Losing Boromir was the first crack but so long as Faramir lived there was a glimmer that maybe Gondor would somehow survive and that there was a purpose in continuing to strive against the Dark Tower then when Faramir returns near enough to death to be mistaken for dead the last tiny thread of Denethor's hope and sanity snaps and with his city nearly in ruins he's like 'yep this is definitely the doomed future I saw in the Palantir one there's no purpose in living any longer when all is lost' and decides to turn himself and his son into a human smore party.

[elodieunderglass]

I'm not as familiar with LOTR as you are, so I wondered if you could tell me if my wild theory is completely off-base.

No one knows where the Hobbits came from, except that at some point they diverged from the line of men. No one knows much about the Entwives' appearance, but we do know that they fucked off a long time ago.

Could the Entwives have been dryad-ish and hooked up with the hobbits' ancestors and so be the foremothers of the hobbits?

Ah I think I saw that post! The concept has a lot of charm, and when the Tolkien estate loses its corpse-grip on the property in 2050 or so, I think you should write it and sell it 😤 I’ve definitely read some good takes on entwives in fanfiction that both leaned into canon and moved away, and I think that sounds like good fun to explore. A common theme in the fandom is playing with Yavanna, the Green Lady, being the mother or patron of hobbits. This isn’t canonical, but she’s a “green goddess” archetype and is married to Mahal/Aulë, the father of dwarves, which shippers often leverage to their advantage. You could do something quite charming there with Yavanna if you wanted to. We also know that Entwives loved gardens and orchards rather than forests.

Some things I would explore with this include:

what is going on with all these consistent ideas of people, races, women disappearing. We know that a lot of it is how Tolkien processed an almost OCD-like Catholic framing of “the fallen world is getting worse and can never be repaired”, war experiences, romanticism and other stuff stewing in his old man head. What are some ways you could show what’s stewing in your head? What does “people disappearing” mean to you? and why is it especially healing that they disappeared in order to make new families?

I think “they disappeared from their old kin and made new kin” is an interesting and weird thing worth wondering about!

- this would possibly make hobbits a more recent race than is implied. What does that mean to you?

- why are hobbits teeny tiny?

A very good starting point, that Terry Pratchett used a lot, is taking some grand statement in fantasy fiction, and making it reflect a different political reality. “Most dwarves are girls actually.” “Wizards parody academia, but, like, FOR REAL.”

I personally have a different take because of my own political feelings and framings! I have a lot of complex feelings about Tolkien chickening out of hobbits. For various political reasons I personally have to take the stance that they are fully human, fully indigenous, and have their own native language. and that their disappearance is less “teehee we lost them” or “O, the Catholic guilt of the Fallen World, how far we have fallen from the light of the two trees God’s sinless light” and a lot more “oh yeah I’ve seen THAT pattern before.”

If you have a political sort of lens on, someone telling you “yeah… hobbits came from nowhere 🤭 and then disappeared 🤷‍♀️ sad!” is a story that can also invite the response of “OHhhhh you wanted their LAND real bad, huh.” Like, we know what that means, right.

It’s a political stance for me. Hobbits have to be close enough to us to touch, and we have to be able to face that, and the fact that 5,000 media properties will chew on tolkienelves and sell them to you before even admitting to the 🤭 just makes it even more of a 🤨. To me.

…But I have literally just been elbow deep in my own demented fanfic thing that involves inventing a language just to swear in, to enable my standing on a box shouting HOBBITS OUGHT TO RESIST GOING EXTINCT ACTUALLY, based entirely on, I think, spite. Why do multiple authors publish orc football games (Terry Pratchett) and orc coffeeshops (Legends and Lattes guy) and do every damned thing with every bit of Tolkien’s corpse but refuse to look directly at hobbits. I am feral over this and wrote 59k words so far to damage and harm my friends

In conclusion I see a great story shape there about kindred and I think you should explore it and it should be about evolutionary biology and women and divorce and nobody being wrong.

And if anyone argues you with some podcast boy “well actually”, just bite them and do more character work and sit on their heads

[elffromforests]

I want to talk to you about this moment with Elrond, although frankly I don't have any great philosophical thoughts that can be stretched into quotes. But still. This is a spoiler-knife moment from Galiadriel and her ring. For the first time, we see a screenplay of that mosegt if Elrond could die. If you know the texts, then Elrond miraculously survived being near Eregion.Elves and Elrond were saved by the dwarves; Durin sent out a force of Dwarves from Khazad-dûm

🫥But look at this look, it's not broken. He is not afraid. Elrond is ready to accept his fate. He remembers all his happy moments with the closest beings in this World

Maybe he thinks how much he didn't have time to do or even say the words "I love you. Thank you for everything" to someone.

This is probably the moment when he will meet Adar (Maglor). If you know the story and how Elrond and Maglor are related, then you will understand. If it is Maglor, then what does Elrond and the same Adar feel?

[neyafromfrance95]

galadriel & sauron vs. morgoth theory + trop.

we all love the theory that sauron and galadriel would eventually fight side by side against morgoth.

if u think about it, trop is a perfect groundwork for this theory.

in trop, it is implied that sauron and galadriel meet by eru's design and their connection is destined. but why?

sure, galadriel has a hand in sauron's defeat, but so do many others. why does galadriel and sauron's relationship have to be so special and significant on the cosmic scales, above everything else?

in lotr, galadriel passes the test by the end of the 3rd age. she outgrows her pride and selfish need to rule without sharing her power with anyone and determination to rule the middle-earth even if it means becoming a terrible tyrant.

but it's interesting how later frodo sees galadriel through her phial's light:

“frodo took the phial, and for a moment as it shone between them, he saw her again standing like a queen, great and beautiful, but no longer terrible. he bowed, but found no words to say.”

i wonder if this is a subtle implication that galadriel has finally became worthy of succeeding her father one day. her father is the high king of the elves in valinor, and while he has sons, no one is as great as galadriel. tolkien himself commented on galadriel's commanding stature in valinor - "the equal if not unlike in endowments of fëanor." and "(galadriel) being mighty among the eldar, obtained this grace (entering valinor) for him (gimli)."

it has been generally agreed upon that since tolkien wrote several versions of it, galadriel’s story is convoluted, contradictory and inconsistent. but one thing has always remained at the core of her characterization - she is a politician who desires to be a leader. so ofc she would still be a politician in valinor, but it's interesting to imagine she would become a queen after outgrowing her greed and her time in the middle-earth was a neccessary test to shape her into a perfect leader.

considering trop canon, it can be said that even after everything, if sauron was to repent, galadriel would be the one to vouch for him or bring him up in a conversation regarding the battle against morgoth (and the first of all valinor to march to fight again).

another thing to note is that now, the only connection to the physical world sauron would have after the destruction of the one ring is galadriel's scar that binds them by blood! they have been bound by the sea, their admission of cosmic connection, nenya, and their souls are basically merged.

trop interestingly underlines the undertones of galadriel and sauron's comparability - they are mirrors that represent the light and the dark, but also galadriel is a natural born leader and sauron is a natural born follower. underneath sauron's desire to possess her, is the desire to serve and worship her as his queen!

and more importantly, his repentant phase in the show was when he was following her, when his presence actually was healing for galadriel.

so what does all of this have to do with haladriel vs. morgoth theory and how trop lays a groundwork for it?

galadriel's authority in valinor, sauron being bound to her, and galadriel being the one who makes sauron actually go back to his maiar purpose that valar ordained - the one who provides servitude and healing, all of this would make galadriel the perfect candidate to bring back sauron and make the valar consider his repentance.

as for sauron, by then, he would have enough time to get humbled and face what he knows subconsciously - he was meant to serve the light of his leader, not some silly ass rings. and by then, as we said, galadriel would have became even more perfect of a leader, maybe closer to how sauron saw her - a queen for all, a perfect antidote to morgoth. (and having outgrown her pride, galadriel would be able to admit her love and be by sauron's side as well.)

sauron says that after morgoth was defeated, he could feel the light of the one (eru) again and he knew if he ever was to be forgiven, he needed to heal everything he had helped ruin. he comes to see that light in galadriel. by helping her, he gets to receive "forgiveness" from the one he helped ruin ("i'm sorry for your brother, for everything" -> "whatever you did, be free of it"). he tells her that he never believed he could be free of it (morgoth's darkness) until fighting by her side (following her lead, serving her, healing her) and he wishes to bind that feeling (of being bound to galadriel's light) to his very being. and his subconscious screams at him that nothing he does will ever give him what he wants unless it's galadriel by his side, unless it's her light he worships ("your beauty still overshadows everything i could possibly write" ->"worship the light of its queen").

his repentance is tightly intertwined with his bond with galadriel and him coveting her light. he believes that he can be free of his bond to morgoth's darkness if he binds himself to galadriel's light instead. it's just that he can only truly repent if being bound to her light happens on *her* terms. in that case, they can be the force of the good together, pulling each other back from the darkness.

(it is interesting how in sauron's vision, his crown disappears once it's aligned with the sun, as if galadriel's light destroys it. girlboss taming her malewife but make it epic.)

whatever it is, i need one of u haladriels to adapt this theory on screen one day in the future.

[literaryvein-reblogs]

5 More Literary Terms for Studying Prose Narratives

ANAGNORISIS: (Greek for "recognition"): A term used by Aristotle in the Poetics to describe the moment of tragic recognition in which the protagonist realizes some important fact or insight, especially a truth about himself, human nature, or his situation. Aristotle argues that the ideal moment for anagnorisis in a tragedy is the moment of peripeteia, the reversal of fortune. Critics often claim that the moment of tragic recognition is found within a single line of text, in which the tragic hero admits to his lack of insight or asserts the new truth he recognizes. This passage is often called the "line of tragic recognition."

CLOSE READING: Reading a piece of literature carefully, bit by bit, in order to analyze the significance of every individual word, image, and artistic ornament.

EPISTOLARY: Taking the form of a letter, or actually consisting of a letter written to another. For instance, several books in the New Testament written by Saint Paul are epistolary--they were originally letters written to newly founded Christian churches. Sometimes, novelists will write an epistolary novel, in which the story is unveiled as a series of letters between the characters. Some examples include C. S. Lewis's Screwtape Letters, Richardson's Pamela (1740), Fanny Burney's Evelina, Rousseau's La Nouvelle Héloïse, Hannah W. Foster's The Coquette, and John Barth's Letters.

EUCATASTROPHE ("happy or fortunate ending"): As Christopher Garbowski describes in the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia, Tolkien coined this term in his Andrew Lang Lecture entitled "On Fairy-stories." It applies to a final resolution in fantasy literature that evokes a sense of beauty, hope, and wonder in readers. Tolkien uses it as an antonym for the catastrophe that traditionally ends a tragedy.

ORGANIC UNITY: An idea common to Romantic poetry and influential up through the time of the New Critics in the twentieth century, the theory of organic unity suggests all elements of a good literary work are interdependent upon each other to create an emotional or intellectual whole. If any one part of the art is removed--whether it is a character, an action, a speech, a description, or authorial observation--the entire work diminishes in potency as a result. The idea also suggests that the growth or development of a piece of good literature--from its beginning to its end--occurs naturally according to an understandable sequence. That sequence may be chronological, logical, or otherwise step-by-step in some productive manner.

More: Writing Notes & References