#tlj hate

[kylosbreedingkink]

Idk how TLJ can be viewed as a continuation of TFA when it barely keeps the same themes, all the characters act differently, and it barely picks up on any of the story threads TFA left off

[sunderwight]

Bingqiu roleswap where disciple Shen Yuan knows he's gay, and figures out that he has a big huge crush on his handsome Shizun, but also concludes nearly at once that he's not going to be drawing Luo Binghe's eye any time soon. Firstly, Luo Binghe is notoriously straight. Secondly, even if he weren't, he wouldn't go for his scrawny untalented nerd of a disciple! Shen Yuan's not bad looking, not before or after transmigrating, but he's neither a beautiful nor a hot manly man, and he assumes if Luo Binghe were into dudes he'd be into the same kinds of twunks that Shen Yuan likes. Guys on his own level, etc etc.

Plus Luo Binghe hated the original disciple Shen, and only started to warm up to the transmigrated version after Shen Yuan got injured in front of him trying to stop the other disciples on the peak from killing a small animal. For some reason, Luo Binghe brought Shen Yuan medicine. He got even nicer after Shen Yuan distracted the skinner demon by trying to convince it to take his skin instead of Luo Binghe's, and then again when Shen Yuan successfully fought off a demon invader -- though initially when Luo Binghe volunteered him for that job, he thought it was an assassination attempt. His heart was in his throat when Luo Binghe nearly took a poisoned blow for him, but luckily he reacted more quickly and got hit by the thorns instead. His heavenly demon blood took care of the poison, and he managed to convince everyone that he narrowly avoided getting cut at all.

Shen Yuan's careful not to read anything into it when Luo Binghe finds out about his, erm, uncomfortable dormitory situation and moves him into the side room, or when he completely messes up trying to make dinner and Luo Binghe takes over cooking and bans him from the kitchen (he swears he's not actually that bad at cooking, he just never had to use a kitchen without a microwave or an electric hot plate before...)

After all, it's not like Luo Binghe is cooking for him, he's just making food he likes and letting Shen Yuan eat it too! Because he's nice! He's way nicer than the book gave him credit for being, see, clearly Shen Yuan was correct in signing up for his defense squad, "top ten worst villains of all time" his ass that poll was nonsense...

Unfortunately, though, the plot's still gotta plot. Shen Yuan is heartbroken when the Immortal Alliance Conference rolls around and his shizun stabs him and throws him down into the Endless Abyss. Heartbroken, but not surprised. After all, it was always going to go this way, wasn't it?

But at least, now that it's done, he has some agency in how he reacts to it. He's changed the story enough that he doesn't need to go get revenge. Maybe Luo Binghe's still the villain of his story, maybe that was inevitable, but some heroes let the villains get away. Don't they? It's all part of that noble, breaking the cycle of abuse type stuff. He can be that kind of hero. He can let it go. As long as he avoids Luo Binghe altogether, it should be fine, right? It's not like he's obligated to turn people into human sticks. He asked the system, he's definitely not!

Technically he's not even required to conquer the demon realms. He just has to get out of the Abyss and the be sufficiently cool and/or tragic. Conquest is just one means of doing that, and not even Shen Yuan's preferred, since he doesn't exactly want to rule over anybody. Going around the demon realms beating up some jackasses and rescuing some damsels in distress and becoming sworn brothers with Shang Qinghua, one of the current demon kings, is suitable. He definitely doesn't want to marry any of the damsels he encounters (thank fuck the system lets him off the hook for that!)

But eventually he has to go back to the human world. Not only is it mandated by the system, but he also misses living there. The demonic realms are in many ways better than expected, plus a lot of the monsters are really cool, but he misses the weather and plants and the people he's more accustomed to being around.

He misses Qing Jing Peak, if he's being honest with himself. Shizun's cooking and the bamboo forest and the crisp mountain breezes, the comforts of home.

Not that he can actually go back there in specific. Of course not. If he did that, Luo Binghe would try to kill him, or else the system would try and make him kill Luo Binghe. Bad ideas all around. No, he can't go back to Qing Jing Peak, but he can go find someplace nicer than the demon realms at least. He just has to keep a low profile, which shouldn't be hard since the original goods did that even while actively scheming to kill his former master!

Except.

Everywhere he goes, suddenly Luo Binghe is also there?!

Good thing Shen Yuan thought to take a page out of the book of Luo Binghe's actual love interest, Liu Mingyan, and start wearing a veil. He just didn't want any randos who might have seen him at the Immortal Alliance Conference or on any of the other missions his shizun sent him on to recognize him. But one minute he's investigating a strange case in Jinlan City, and the next the streets are full of Huan Hua cultivators (Shen Yuan has no intention of joining them, that's the path the original took to getting revenge! He doesn't want revenge!), and then Luo Binghe and Sect Leader MBJ and Peak Lord SHL show up, and SY is ducking down alleys and hiding behind columns, just trying to stay out of the way until the lockdown on Jinlan lifts and he can leave.

Except...

Luo Binghe really isn't acting like himself?

He looks like he hasn't been eating or sleeping well. There are dark circles around his eyes, and something almost melancholy in his countenance. And he's dressed entirely in white, none of the usual Qing Jing greens and blues anywhere to be seen. Of even greater concern, he's being reckless. Shen Yuan can't stop himself from rushing out when he sees his former shizun get infected by a sower demon.

Luckily, it's been some years since the last time they saw one another. Shen Yuan's gained a few inches in height, so he's almost at eye-level with his old master now, and though he's still more slender than bulky he's picked up some totally new styles from training the demon realms. He doesn't move the same way he used to. With that, plus the veil, it's enough for him to quickly swallow back his words as he grabs Luo Binghe and quickly administers a cure for the sower infection.

Well, he has one of course. He wouldn't need it himself, heavenly demon blood and all, but his time running around playing hero in the demon realms meant he rescued a lot of humans from such fates. Which is hard to do if you don't have a cure to their afflictions, but between him and Shang Qinghua, sourcing such things was almost easy.

Luo Binghe looks at him like he's just seen a ghost. The other Cang Qiong sect members are alarmed by SY suddenly accosting one of their own and of course find him suspicious, so he runs away right after, and then he has to lose Sha Hualing's pursuit in the city.

But what else could he do? He manages to evade the system's attempts to railroad him into meeting Gongyi Xiao, avoids the rest of the Cang Qiong crowd, and drops some of the cure through the current Qian Cao peak lord's window to get the incident sorted out. Then he flees and puts a good amount of distance between himself, Jinlan City, and every righteous sect he can think of.

The only problem is that after this point, Luo Binghe is everywhere.

Any time Shen Yuan stays in one place for longer than a few days, Qing Jing disciples start turning up. Any time he takes a job hunting some cool-sounding monster or pursuing some interesting tome of knowledge, the better to satisfy the system, it seems like Luo Binghe has selected and gone after the exact same target! Which is especially annoying because back when SY was a disciple, Luo Binghe was always assigning him to do this stuff. Since when does his chronic homebody master have an interesting in six-tailed scorpion lemurs or ancient spiritual kilns?

What's weirder, though, are the rumors.

It seems like any time SY stops at some well-populated place and asks for the latest gossip, he has to hear about how the Qing Jing peak lord lost his beloved disciple during the Immortal Alliance Conference, and mourned like a widow, and now wanders the earth in search of solace for his grief. Seeking something, possibly even the ghost of his dear disciple.

What nonsense! Luo Binghe threw SY into the Abyss himself. He had to do it, it was the plot! And also his obligation as a righteous cultivator, confronted with a "dangerous" half-demon. Does it sting? Yes it stings! That's why SY wouldn't just forget it! Despite logically knowing it's pointless, is there some part of him that wishes his master would have chosen differently? That thinks he should have known that no matter what kind of power Shen Yuan had, he would never use it to hurt people recklessly, or harm innocents, or especially not harm... well. It's pointless, his blood condemned him, and if there is some part of Luo Binghe which regrets what happened, it's doubtless just that he unwittingly harbored a monster for so long.

Which is fine and Shen Yuan would leave it at that, if the guy would just let him!

But no. Instead he has to deal with Luo Binghe turning up and asking him questions, trying to get him to talk (SY has no hope of disguising his voice, if he says anything he's not even sure it won't crack as he comes perilously close to tears instead, so he just stays silent), and then asking for his name, asking if he's mute, asking about his background, his sect, his kin. Is his a righteous cultivator? Where did he get that sword? (NOT Xin Mo, thanks, he used that thing once and then tossed it back into the Abyss before the portal finished closing behind him -- he knows a poisoned chalice when he sees one, although knowing the plot twist about that sword from the novel sure helped.) Where did he learn those forms? Is he... does he have a safe place to go home to? Someone to tend his injuries? Make sure he eats his meals?

SY, of course, stays silent. But it's difficult. Not only because Luo Binghe asks, but because he still looks... bad. Sunken, sorrowful, desperate almost. Shen Yuan can't figure out if he knows or not. Maybe he's unsure, maybe he's looking for SY to give him a sign, so that he can figure him out and then flip a switch and try to finish the job he started.

That can't happen. If they fight, SY will win, and he doesn't want to hurt Luo Binghe.

But even if Luo Binghe's not a heavenly demon, he is a highly accomplished cultivator, and it seems he's got his own breaking points to reach. Eventually he corners SY and gets a hand on his veil, and for a moment SY is sure he's going to rip it off, see his face, and confront him all "I knew it was you, you twisted evil demon, you won't escape justice a second time" and he feels a deep, icy terror close around his lungs--

Luo Binghe lets go of the veil before he can lift it.

But then something even worse happens. Because Shen Yuan's handsome, peerless, noble master breaks down. He falls to his knees, begging forgiveness, sobbing, clutching at his head like he's being driven to madness.

It all spills out of him, then. How he pushed his own dearest disciple into the Abyss, which obviously SY already knew, but also how he was apparently qi-deviating the whole time, and his senses could not differentiate between one kind of demonic "threat" and another. How he realized what he'd done only after he regained his senses hours later, and rushed back to the place where the tear to the Abyss had opened, but could not find a way in after the one he lost. How he had betrayed and thrown away the only person who cared about him, and couldn't even explain that he hadn't intended to. How he would accept anything, any punishment, hatred, penance, or revenge, if only he could see his disciple's face once more.

SY is stunned.

Apparently, Luo Binghe hadn't rejected him for his demon blood?

Not only that, but beforehand, he seemed to have valued Shen Yuan a lot more than Shen Yuan would have credited.

Is it a trick? Is he lying? SY would have guessed so, would have assumed that Luo Binghe's plan was to lull him into complacency only to turn on him once he finally had confirmation. But somehow, he just... doesn't think this is an insincere display. His old master is too cool for this stuff! He has too much dignity to just throw it away on a scheme! There are other ways to get what he wants.

Even if it is a lie, Shen Yuan is tired of running. He's the hero. He won't actually lose, and if it comes to it, it's still in his hands to decide if he wants to spare Luo Binghe or not (he does, of course he does, even if this whole spiel is an act). Plus he's got a backup plant body in one of Shang Qinghua's greenhouses if all goes to shit.

He takes the veil off himself.

Luo Binghe, teary-eyed, stares at him as if his face is the most beautiful he's ever seen.

Shen Yuan nearly puts the veil back on. His cheeks heat up. Dear Shizun, aren't you an immortal master? A noble peak lord? Isn't it your calling to vanquish demons? Get up off the dirty ground right this minute! Where did your dignity go? Shen Yuan did not spend all those nights doing the laundry to watch his teacher dirty his knees for no good reason!

There's a quaver in Luo Binghe's voice as he points out that Shen Yuan was terrible at doing laundry. Luo Binghe had to redo it the day after, all the time.

Shen Yuan chides at him that he should have made one of the other disciples do it then.

Luo Binghe just laughs, and stays on the ground, until finally Shen Yuan has to physically pull him up. Muttering about how he's being ridiculous, what's he crying for, why's he been moping so much, doesn't he know that handsome face should never look so bereft? Then he realizes what he's saying and shuts his mouth, but Luo Binghe just looks happy for the first time in years. Since the Abyss. How is it possible that SY, who actually had to slog through that awful place, can still smile more than Luo Binghe, who didn't?

They're standing so close. Holding on to one another. Almost as if... as if the scene's tone is... well...

Oh what the hell!

Shen Yuan closes the last little bit of distance between them, and kisses Luo Binghe.

[tk-duveraun]

This is probably retreading crow Yuan ground, but crow spirit Shen Yuan to transmigrated into a crow!! When SJ didn't die as expected. The system gives him a little boost to get started on cultivation as well as "mini games" that increase his cultivation and but the time LBH comes out of the abyss, SY has a golden core and can communicate with lbh though he's a long way from a human transformation.

But this point in his life, LBH knows to be wary of everything, but also that crows are intelligent and loyal so he gives SY a chance and once he discovers they can communicate easily, allows the bird to hang around.

It's good to have a spy - and not even a demonic one or one first loyal to MBJ (looking at you, shishu). Crow Yuan is very supportive of LBH's schemes and plans, but extremely critical of LBH's women. It should take more than a "you deserve better than her" and a few squawks to dissuade LBH from his conquests, but something is sharp and bright and he DOES deserve better

When LBH has a breakdown over QWY forcing herself on him by coercion, SY goes into overdrive. He'd thought that scene was sus but now he's on the war path.

He goes and retrieves a ton of magical items and precious manuscripts to help LBH handle xinmo so he's never forced again. SY keeps waiting to feel bad as some woman dies bc LBH refuses to save her with his dick, but that feeling never comes. He feels a little upset, but mostly at airplane for designing the world that way

LBH still knows sy is upset and eventually research reveals there was a non heavenly pillar cure AND the woman's village should have known it. He goes back and strongarms them into doing regular sex pollen education.

Then it happens again

And again.

SY is starting to get confused about LBH's conquest against wife plots. Shouldn't he be, you know, conquering the land?? Not that SY is complaining. LBH never seemed to enjoy his power, he just never wanted to be trampled on again. It was like that study about how money does buy happiness, but only to a certain point. Maybe power was the same?

After sy learns SQH is airplane, he whole -heartedly encourages LBH to force more and more demonic sovereignty on the North just to give airplane more work. Especially since SY, with his front row seat on LBH's shoulder, has seen tons of demonic courting live and knows MBJ wants a piece of that.

Meanwhile, SY's cultivation improves by leaps and bounds with the help of LBH's blood and various gifts from the protagonist.

SY really wants to hate all of the silver bangles and other decorations he's gifted, but his brain is still a crow's brain at the end of the day so he suffers it with dignity.

At one point he realizes maybe he should stop cultivating. After all, if he's a human, the dynamic will change. LBH might see him rejecting marriage offers as a threat rather than good advice. LBH might think sy wants more power and riches for himself rather than for LBH

[trashquisitor-shirozora]

*enables you* what happened with TLJ 👃

After all these years I still can't properly find words to explain how deeply betrayed I felt after the credits rolled and I shuffled out of the movie theater with everybody else. There was a TON of hype surrounding this movie, an absolute fuckton. I only saw positive reviews about it, the cast, the director, the plot. I got excited to see where Rian Johnson & Co. would take the ST.

The only remotely negative comment I saw before watching the movie was a fandom blog saying they didn't like what happened to Poe. Since this blog was about racism in fandom, I knew something was off. That was my only warning.

And y'know, it was like, five minutes in? Ten minutes? And Poe makes a "Yo mama" joke at Hux? I used to go into movies with an open mind and spent days gathering my thoughts about them because I was always slow to react, slow to gather my thoughts into coherent strings of words. It's how I enjoyed Michael Bay productions and JJ Abrams' love affair with lens flare. I never got actively angry with a movie I was watching, and I was fucking angry by the time the movie ended. I still remember texting a friend while standing out in front of the theater because I was so confused. The response to TLJ was so positive so why did I come out of the movie so frustrated and confused and dissatisfied with the whole thing?

It's been years and we all know how this movie divided the Star Wars fandom and just... broke Fandom Spaces in a way I never expected. We all know what TLJ did and didn't do, and how TROS provided the final nail in the coffin that was the ST experiment. But back then, all I saw was positive commentary about the themes and messages of TLJ, how it portrayed failure and the dangers of putting someone like Luke Skywalker on a pedestal, how the Force was female, how... important it was to see Poe get characterized as a hotheaded hotshot who needed to be demoted, slapped around, and stunned in order to learn some kind of lesson, how important it was to see Finn lose everything he gained in TFA so that he could relearn how not to be selfish or something while starring in a fucking incredibly tone-deaf B plot, how Rey... I'm not sure exactly what because she didn't need training anyway and then spent most of her time trying to bring Ben Swolo back to the light????? Rose was so promising as someone who grew up under the FO's thumb but she and Kelly were fucking abandoned by Disney so I don't know if Rose existing was actually a good idea if it meant giving Kelly unending trauma. Mark slipped up by calling Luke "Jake" and expressing his displeasure in front of cameras, and I was so fucking baffled and alienated by his character after knowing how his story ended in ROTJ that I couldn't connect with whatever lessons I and he are supposed to be learning. JJ set up Snoke like a mystery box and Rian just yeeted him off without so much as a fucking explanation so what was the point of that? Hux was a fucking joke. Phasma was barely there. The only character that Rian cared about was fucking Kylo Ren and Adam says years later that he was never supposed to get a redemption arc anyway.

Like, this was the movie everyone hyped up? This was the movie that didn't answer any questions left unasked by TFA and didn't bother to move forward with character development for any of the known characters? I spent money watching a slow space chase that ended on a planet made of salt and killed off Luke for Reasons? Am I stupid? Am I dumb? Am I a peasant incapable of understanding the masterpiece Rian directed, this so-called Best Star Wars Movie Since ESB?

But I couldn't say anything. I couldn't be dogpiled for hating such a empowering movie for women, a diverse and inclusive movie that had the likes of John and Kelly and Oscar. I couldn't be lumped in with the Star Wars dudebros with their raging misogynistic and racist takes on the movie, the cast, Kathleen Kennedy and Lucasfilm, Disney, etc. I couldn't be seen as one of them just because I didn't like a movie that I should like, I'm supposed to like. So I sat in silence, read meta, witnessed the fucking catastrophic explosion around some wild ass AO3 fandom essays written by a racist OG member of OTW about Finn/Poe, saw hate piled on black and bipoc fans, saw r*ylo fans come for John and John clap back at them, just saw an absolute fuckton of hate, and so by the time TROS came around I just... checked out. There was no way JJ could salvage what Rian had done and I was right. TROS was a corporate-run soulless garbage end to the Sequel Trilogy, but it ended just as The Mandalorian finished its first season and regained a lot of good will with this small story about a lonely Mandalorian bounty hunter who encountered a Force-sensitive Baby Yoda.

And then TBOBF/Season 3 of the Mando Show happened, just like how TLJ happened. All the promise, all the unanswered questions of the previous movie/season, all fucking dropped or provided with the worst, most unsatisfying answer. I'm sure others have found better answers and can live with what Star Wars gave us, but I haven't been able to. TLJ came out years and years ago, and I am still so bitter today. I'm still so bitter because TFA had such an incredibly compelling setup with such promising characters, and then TLJ Did That.

I got so heated while writing this. I'm still so mad. I'm still so bitter. I bury my head so deep in the sandbox I built for myself so that I don't have to think how Disney is twisting and contorting all these Mando'verse shows so that they all eventually lead to the ST, their precious hot potato child that just... didn't have to end the way they did if they actually had a fucking plan and fucking stuck the landing. I'll give the MCU this - their Phase 1? They fucking stuck the landing. I fell off the train tracks and haven't really watched the MCU since Captain Marvel, but at least they had a fucking plan and didn't fucking derail themselves like Disney did with the Sequel Trilogy.

I could be nice to people who like this movie but I'm not going to be. They can be nice on their own blogs.

Man, I can't even watch Knives Out or Glass Onion because my blood starts boiling. Just. TLJ did a lot to ruin what I hoped would be a positive and creative connection with Star Wars, and it took the Mando Show and the 2 minutes where Din and Luke locked eyes on the Imperial light cruiser to bring me back.

I'm gonna stop before I get way too heated for sleep.

[artist-issues]

are there any controversial pieces of media that you like? why is it controversial? why do you like it? do you defend it against people who don't like it, and if you do, how?

Do I

Oh boy

This answer is going to dive in to how I've worked out "The Right Way to Make Sequels." So it'll be another long one.

I really, truly like Star Wars: The Last Jedi. And without that movie, I would not like The Force Awakens as much as I also like it.

TLJ is one of the most hotly contested Star Wars movies of all time, which is saying something, because the Star Wars audience loves to hotly contest everything.

I think Star Wars: The Last Jedi is the best Star Wars film since the original trilogy. I would rather rewatch it than any of the original movies, or the prequel movies, or any other Star Wars media.

Because it's just good. It's just a really good movie—and it is also a really good Star Wars movie, because it nails the whole theme of Star Wars, which is "Faith Triumphs Over Fear."

But. Not everybody measures the phrase "really good movie" or the the phrase "good Star Wars movie" by the same metrics I do.

You know that I believe a story is good when it reminds you of the Good, the Beautiful, the True, or all of them at once—by nailing the "main point" or "theme," instead of being entertaining alone. Add to that the fact that I believe a Star Wars movie (or any franchise movie, or story-sequel) is good when it believably emphasizes the overall main-point of its predecessors, without losing the ability to be compelling.

To be "believable," it has to make sure that the characters (if they're returning from their predecessor appearances) make in-character choices. It does not mean that those returning-characters have to make choices that the audience approves of. Nobody likes the fact that the two characters in La La Land choose not to stay together forever. But there comes a point when it doesn't matter what the audience likes, it matters what the characters "would do."

Anyway.

Another way to have the sequel be "believable" is to make sure that what filmmakers call the "style & tone" stay somewhat familiar, echoing their predecessors. There's a lot of wiggle room for this. Some deviation from what the predecessors did in terms of style or even is good and right. But you want to keep the core stuff—because "style & tone" are just another tool used to "nail the main point" that the predecessors used, so you don't want to change it too much.

What I mean is, in The Last Jedi, you have things like:

Epic-scale visuals (dramatic shots that make use of big objects and light and shadow in the composition)

Dramatic Use of Color (Red is bad, blue is good, black is bad, white is good—very in-your-face symbolism)

Quirky Alien Cutaways (even though it's a dramatic adventure, you still sometimes cutaway to see a funky alien or a funny little creature, to remind you this is a fun space-romp.)

Somewhat-Obvious Adventurous One-Liner Dialogue (No explanation needed)

INTENSE emphasis on orchestral score (I don't have to explain this, Star Wars is one of the greatest examples of all time for music in movies)

All of the above contributes to the "tone and style" of a Star Wars movie. The Original movies have that. Most of the Prequel Trilogy has it, too. The Last Jedi does it right. You're supposed to feel heights of "operatic" drama, but it's not working very hard to be subtle or "clever." It's just common-sense, easily-accessible storytelling, from the lighting to the colors to the dialogue. Everyone of all ages can watch and enjoy.

(It doesn't mean a Star Wars movie is not profound—it means that it lets simple-truths shine, because truths that are plain and simple are profound, and only arrogant "intellectuals" can't accept that and clamor for something more "complex" just for the pleasure of hearing the gears in their own heads click. Anyway.)

So The Last Jedi gets that right. You know what doesn't?

Andor. The Star Wars show on Disney+. Andor does not get the Star Wars Style & Tone right. It tries too hard to be complex. It is all about grey areas and blurring the line between right and wrong, good and evil. It tries really hard to be "sophisticated" and "for mature fans." And its style and tone reflect that. It doesn't feel like Star Wars.

So you see how I can show the different examples of what gets this right and what gets this wrong, even in other areas of Star Wars—I'm not just biased and using the movie I like as a template. I enjoyed Andor. But Andor is not a good Star Wars story; not if I apply the metric fairly.

So that's "believable." You have to make the audience believe that they are re-entering the world, and seeing the characters, or the story itself, continue. Otherwise you lose them. Because you got them in the first place with a promise: "you're going to see a continuation."

Let's move on to "compelling."

To be "compelling," you have to tell a good story. That's it. That's all.

It is good and right to re-enter a franchise's "world" and shine a light on the same main-point as the original stories—from a new set of characters' perspective. It is good and right to not re-tell and reboot the same old characters and recount their lives, over and over. It is good and right to make a new story that continues the theme of the old story.

And as long as you're doing that, you don't need to follow any other supposed "rules" that the "fandom" made up.

The Last Jedi does that perfectly. It takes the characters that were introduced in "The Force Awakens," takes into account where each of them began and where we last left them, and then believably and compellingly moves forward.

That's all it was supposed to do. And it did it, super super well. In a way most Star Wars media does not.

Like for example, I said Andor is a bad continuation of the Star Wars franchise because it gets the Style and Tone wrong, right? So it's not "believable" as a Star Wars story?

Well, the other side of the coin is also true. Ahsoka, another Disney+ Star Wars story, is on the other end of the spectrum. It might nail (in lots of ways) the "Style and Tone" of a Star Wars story, to make it believable. But it's not compelling. Because it gets the other thing wrong: it's a bad story.

The Last Jedi gets both "believability" and "compelling storytelling" totally right.

But the fans didn't want a good story. They didn't want a continuation of the Star Wars theme, because they probably never really thought about what that theme really was.

No. The fans wanted what I call 💫 A Checklist of Star Wars Stuff Disguised As a Story 💫 . They wanted to hear more name-drops of characters from Deep Cuts in the previous movies. They wanted the New Characters to have familial ties to their favorite Old Characters. They wanted the movies to be about the Old Characters—so they really wanted Luke Skywalker to come out swinging as an undetectable Jedi Messiah with no character flaws who makes the New Characters look like fools because the fans hate the New Characters. They also wanted more Old Characters to come back, and they would only have liked the New Characters if those characters, in and of themselves, were...bad characters, because Star Wars fans, by and large, really often forget what made their precious Old Characters well-written characters in the first place. And that was: human flaws.

Luke is always focused on how he can control his future, especially when it comes to fulfilling his destiny or saving his friends. That's a flaw. That's pride. But Star Wars fans forgot that that's Luke's "fatal flaw." They just remember the nostalgia of green lightsaber backflips and retconned Legends books.

So then when Rey comes along and is focused on her past, and has her own pride issues, the fans go "ew, she's so annoying, let's nitpick about whether or not she could win a fight in real life."

Because Star Wars fans went into The Last Jedi believing that "A Good Star Wars Story has Luke Skywalker Being a Total Beast, a Realized Messiah who Dominates New Characters," or "A Good Star Wars Story Has Ultra-Powerful Villains Who Fit the Previously-Done-to-Death Mold, Like a Video Game Boss..." then they found the movie unbelievable. They don't believe it because they had silly expectations going in.

The one thing they can't deny was that it was compelling. Every showing I went to, even way past the premier, you could cut the tension in the theater with a knife when you were supposed to, you could feel the air move as everybody gasped when they were supposed to, you could hear laughter at all the right moments and empathy with the characters at all the right moments. But then a few months after the release, and online, everybody's claiming to have hated it. I know that's not true. I experienced it.

But Mark Hamill, the guy who played Luke Skywalker, ran his mouth about how he didn't understand Luke's character direction. He very cleverly, in interviews, set himself up as the Actor who Understands His Character being ignored and misunderstood by a Plebian Director...and as a "consequence," they "got Luke all wrong." So then of course the nostalgic fan base, who already had silly expectations, feels those silly expectations justified by the actor from their childhood. Who is wrong about his own character, I don't care, that's happened before, actors are wrong about their own characters, get over it.

Anyway. My point is, The Last Jedi is controversial because it's a good story, and not a Star Wars Checklist Disguised as a Story. And people have a skewed idea of what stories are for, so no wonder they have a skewed understanding of what made Star Wars good—and if you don't know what makes it good, you won't be satisfied when the real thing comes back around in the form of a good sequel. Because you thought "good" meant "name drops, intellectual tickling, and a regurgitation of Focus on Old Characters to entertain me."

You could apply this whole measurement-system for sequels to where the MCU did everything right for so long, and how it's doing it all wrong here recently. Anyway.

I have a lot of posts expanding on this. One or two argument-reblog-matches with fans who hated the movie, too. They're not very popular, because people have been majorly gaslit by the loudest Star Wars fans concerning the Sequel Trilogy.

Thanks for reading!

[raisedbythetv89]

Two of the worst proposals in the history of modern media followed by the most pathetic cringe fail loser puppy dog eyes when their absolutely abysmal attempts at saying “I love and want only you” fail miserably and unfortunately for me I desire both of them carnally

bonus: they even both hit this pose after being knocked on their ass during said failed proposal attempt

[dont-let-me-eat-pears]

i mean, he killed jecki and yord, and now she's killed sol and they're both evil, but. i maybe? kinda? ship it?

[waitineedaname]

the appeal of some ships is how much of a disaster they would be. chengyao is great because of their polar opposite ideas about raising a child in their co-uncleing situation, and then guanyin temple turns into their messy divorce. tianjiu is funny not necessarily because of the relationship itself, but rather because the only way to make binghe and shen jiu's relationship worse would be if shen jiu was fucking binghe's dad. do you understand

[peachviz]

“Tenderness and Passion are the only weapons which will save man from self-destruction” -D.H. Lawrence

The Order of Death

[piosplayhouse]

"bl should have more female characters that aren't just stuck in there to try to break up the main couple" Tianlang Jun is literally RIGHT THERE.

[lesbinewren]

it is absolutely wild that so many peoples reaction to daisy ridley talking about how she was in a bad place after tfa and worried she was “the worst thing to happen to star wars” is to be like “well yeah rey literally ruined my childhood and every movie she was in tore down everything i loved about star wars, but that wasn’t her fault” like bro regardless of your feelings on rey read the room!!!

[miasma-my-asthma]

Sometimes I see "progressives" coddle, praise and defend some of the most garbage quality pieces of media I've ever seen just bc conservatives and reactionaries hate/make fun of it. Whenever it happens its so fucking annoying bc the momment you criticise those things some people come to you with a lot of assumptions without listening to what you say to harass you.

[icejello]

To be a king who's abandoning my duties and disguising myself as a normal human to enjoy the city and then meeting a badass woman who will kick my ass and immediately falling in love with her. I hide my identity from her and she treats me like I'm a loser I'm a simp so it doesn't matter. I would then have a son with her and I would be so happy but the both of us got betrayed and she was then killed by poison while our son survives. And I'm sorry but i couldn't be there for our son bcs now i have to atone for the things that happened and he reminds me of my beloved wife so much for it to not hurt when i look at him.

[artist-issues]

Hello! My ask is about The Rise Of Skywalker. I would like to read your analysis of Reylo's scenes such as their dialogues in the film, Rey's declaration to Ben ("I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand."), Ben's return to the light side and the reylo kiss. The declaration, Ben's return and the kiss, for me, are the only good things about this film.

I thought all of the Rise of Skywalker was really terrible. Terrible writing, terrible plot, and even some pretty terrible characterizations. (I thought the actors did their best, though.)

Basically, ROS had several threads that TLJ and TFA had braided together. All it needed to do was tie those threads off. But instead, it unraveled them and tangled them up and said “done! All tied up!”

For example:

Thread 1: Finn’s journey from fear to faith.

Thread 2: Leia’s hope for her son.

Thread 3: Poe’s journey from hero to leader.

Thread 4: Hux’s growing, rabid desire for control. (It’s why the organization’s called the First “ORDER”)

Thread 5: Kylo Ren’s learning that power won’t make him feel secure.

Thread 6: Rey’s learning that she doesn’t need to be “somebody” because it’s all about something bigger than herself.

Thread 7: Kylo Ren and Rey learning their respective lessons by finding the answers in each other.

TLJ took what TFA started and got you those threads. Then TROS said “never mind, we don’t like those threads” with most of them. For example, Poe and Finn suddenly have nothing to do. For example, Finn is not doing anything that requires the faith he began building at the end of TLJ; he’s just following Rey around. Poe is not learning how to lead, he’s just info-dumping and trying quick three-man hero missions, unlike the lesson he learned at the end of TLJ. Hux is not strategizing with rabid extremism for control; he’s just pettily throwing his life away to get back at Kylo Ren. Et Cetera. The threads all get unraveled or tangled up or left dangling uselessly.

EXCEPT for Thread 7.

They make an attempt at “Kylo Ren and Rey learning their respective lessons by deepening their bond.” The problem is, without the other threads, that one just doesn’t fit any better than the rest of the story.

First off, I 100% agree that Kylo Ren and Rey would be involved romantically, in some way, eventually. There’s literally no way around it. Romantic attachment is choosing to commit to someone on an intimate level. Because they’re Force Bonded, and because they are the only people in the universe who have similar identity crises and deep family-related angst, they were bound to intimately understand each other. They started caring about each other in TLJ. All TROS had to do was fan the flames of that care up in a way that led to their character developments concluding.

Rey just needed to demonstrate more of the letting-go she demonstrated at the end of TLJ: she wants Kylo Ren to be Light, but she realizes there’s nothing she can do to force it, even if she begs and pleads, so she just keeps doing the right thing on her end and trusts the Force, believing he’ll come to the right conclusion in the end no matter how much evil he’s done. What’s that ladies and gentlemen? It’s called ✨ unconditional love. ✨

Then Kylo Ren just needed to see that love. Literally, just see and continuously experience it. Even if he’s trying to hunt her down and kill her or take everything from her or whatever, she just keeps refusing to kill him and believing he’ll turn good. After all, that’s more than his parents did for him back when they sent him away—and since then, whatever unconditional love Rey shows him is strengthened by the examples of unconditional love Han Solo and Luke showed right before they died. Plus the alternative to accepting unconditional love—murdering everything that might give him a sense of power—hasn’t been making him feel any better. So he was primed for redemption via Rey.

That’s all they needed to do in TROS. Not so hard, just write a reason for her to save his life or spare it again, even after their previous encounter and even given his new status as Supreme Leader. He’s halfway there. Continued pushes are all that’s needed.

Just like Luke Skywalker in the Revenge of the Sith, Rey and Kylo Ren don’t really need to develop much more in the final movie of their trilogy. They just need to put what the first two movies taught them to a big final test.

Anyway. With that in mind:

Let me give you the bite-sized version 😅

The Force-Searching Scenes - I don’t like these because they’re all Kylo Ren searching for Rey, with little to no engagement from her. She feels more like she’s given up on him in these scenes and is just trying to win an argument whenever he barges into her brain. He, on the other hand, might be looking for her, but it’s with one hand on his grandfather’s mask. Which is totally the opposite of him “letting the past die. Kill it, if you have to.” So he’s taking weird steps backward, toward TFA, as if TLJ never happened… and that tarnishes his motives for finding Rey, in my mind. If he’s going back to trusting the past and the idea of his grandfather, then why does he want to turn Rey to the dark side? When Vader failed to turn Luke, he tried to murder him. Kylo Ren knows that. So meditating on a mask he should be giving up on in order to find and turn Rey makes no sense, so it takes the tension out of those scenes for me.

Fight Scenes - Again, it makes no sense that Kylo Ren would still be pursuing turning Rey to the dark side so doggedly. Neither of them could convince the other at the end of TLJ. They split a lightsaber in half to prove it. Now, that doesn’t mean they should be giving up on each other completely. But Kylo Ren should be acting like he’s given up on her, even if just to convince himself. That’s what he’s done this whole time: turned to killing the people who fail him to make himself feel more powerful. She has a reason to keep believing in him: she’s on the Light Side of the Force. But instead, she’s the one acting like she wants nothing more to do with him. He mentions how he’s going to turn her to the dark side multiple times in the movie. But she doesn’t say more than one quipped question hinting that she still wants him on the light side. So the “attachment” focus of their fights loses all it’s tension because again, it doesn’t make sense. After TLJ, he should be at least trying to give up on her and pursue killing her, if anything. And she should be steadfastly believing in him, while pursuing doing the right thing no matter what he does. That’s where they were in their character development. More fighting barely makes sense.

Healing Scene - I liked this scene only when Rey heals Kylo Ren. Their fight beforehand, and her ramming his lightsaber into him, still makes no sense. She’s angry at him because of her connection to Palpatine and she’s fighting him like that’s going to exorcise her identity…but Rey being a dark, angry descendant of Palpatine never made sense (it unravels her whole character development.) So her motivations in this scene don’t make sense…until she heals him. Then, suddenly, there’s a glimpse of that Rey we left on the Millenium Falcon in TLJ: she’s healing him, even though he might just stand up and attack her again, because she genuinely believes he’s Ben and she just needs to show him mercy until he comes around to believing it. And THAT is part of what turns him. So I like that: I just think it was executed really poorly. She should never have been healing him from a wound she caused.

The Kiss - The kiss was just basically the TROS storytellers confirming that they were romantically attached instead of just enemies-to-friends/Allie’s attached. Because…for some reason they had to confirm that visually. I just think, again, that they didn’t set it up and execute it well. They have no conversations and no significant attention paid toward each other between the healing scene and the final battle. They might be force-linked, but the audience needed to see that bond turned romantic, or him turned good before any overt romantic gestures, much earlier on. Other than that, I like that he healed her. I love Adam Driver’s acting in that whole scene. Makes me wish they gave him more to do.

The Death Scene - This should not have happened. It was lazy. Kylo Ren is a character who has been trying to fulfill himself by making BIG, final (emphasis on “final”) choices. Having him make one more big final choice, to end his own life, was not good character development. He should’ve had to live with what he’d done so he could learn from his mistakes. That’s where his whole character was headed. He’s always failed to learn from his past: he thinks he can just erase it. You know what giving up your life for a different hero and then fading away is? It’s nice, but it’s just another “erase” choice. Additionally? It’s terrible for Rey’s story, too. She finally had someone she chose, someone she waited for who actually came back, somebody who understood her…somebody who’s redemption rewarded her long faith…and she’s left alone again. That’s just the worst. Plus, what did she need him to heal her for? What exactly did she die of? He was way more injured than she was.

What they should’ve done was, Kylo Ren and Rey save the day, and then he’s condemned to death for his crimes by the New Republic, but in honor of Leia’s life of sacrifice and belief in him, he’s given enough of a pardon to simply be banished to the unknown reaches. And Rey goes with him, because she can finally stop waiting, she loves seeing the galaxy, and they can learn about the Force together…plus, they’re obviously deeply connected. And that would be a great homage to Leia’s legacy as a character who never gives up on hope, and that hope is ultimately rewarded. Instead of having her give her life to reach him…so he can live for an hour or so before also dying.

Long story short…you’re right! I just think all the elements you liked should’ve been way more central, built up to, and placed where they fit in a better movie!

[ghostclowning]

character design? no thanks, in this house we make the characters vaguely recognizable and call it a day

[ivalice-tifalucis]

My take that he is a force ghost who comes to help Ahsoka. Right away the Vader/Anakin reminds me of this concept art for The Force Awakens. Of couse we all know it never ended up used.

As a Reylo fan I have headcannons running in my head right now 😶