#time to make this orym's entire personality

[iatethepomegranate]

If I see one more take about Orym being "secretive" in taking the sword, I swear I might start screaming. The dude walked up to Chet in front of everyone, asked for access to the Bag of Holding, took the sword out (in front of everyone) and left with it. Then he came back with the sword strapped to his back... IN FRONT OF EVERYONE. There was ample time for someone to speak up if they wanted to and Orym, quite frankly, didn't have reason to expect it would be an issue. Laudna may have used the lack of discussion as part of her cycle of justifications for her actions, but that doesn't mean it was 1) the main issue she was actually dealing with or 2) an unsolvable problem that required a rash response even if that had been Laudna's primary issue.

[kerosene-in-a-blender]

The conversation between Dorian and Orym this episode was incredible, and I especially like how true to their characters it was both in terms of how they eventually admitted their feelings for each other and why neither broached the subject before this point.

Orym is straightforward and practical and grounded, and after he admits he's been keeping something from Dorian, he comes right out and says it. "I have feelings for you." Dorian, in contrast, ever the bard and performer, tells a story. He talks about how Orym is the reason he's with Bells Hells and he's always been the reason he is. He talks about never having felt this way before about anyone and maybe that's because Orym's is "the first beautiful, kind face [he's] ever seen." He's not nearly as direct as Orym, but the feelings and emotions are just as clear in the way he talks to and about him.

Both also make it clear in this conversation why they've held back in admitting they love the other. Orym, who's been expected and acting as Bells Hells only sane person and moral anchor for pretty much the entire time the Hells have been together, was swallowing his feelings because he didn't want to burden Dorian with something he assumed wasn't reciprocated. Especially after Dorian came back having clearly had a harrowing experience involving the Crownkeepers that ultimately led to his brother's death. Dorian meanwhile, is someone who is constantly anxiously second-guessing himself and is also experiencing all of this for the first time. And thusly he doesn't feel like he can ask anything of a man whom he knows has been widowed and whose husband's murderers they are actively pursuing and opposing. Both have been holding back because there has been so much else going on and they don't want to add another thing to the pile of "shit Dorian/Orym is dealing with". But with the confrontation with Ludinus rapidly approaching and neither's survival guaranteed both finally went, "if not now, when?" and took the leap.

[alliekitaguchi]

one thing I’m hoping is addressed in future episodes is the fact that laudna sometimes acts like she’s the only one who’s ever been through her own trauma. and yes, what she’s been through is AWFUL, but everyone has been through something

- laudna was tricked, tortured, hung, revived, and wandered the world for about 30 years by herself before she found Imogen (though Marisha has stated there was someone before Imogen, but that hasn’t come up in game yet), and then died again, before being revived again. she has delilah in her head, which is Not Great, but laudna consciously brought her back

- imogen was abandoned by her mother at a young age and grew up with an absent father, who revered her as a freak, and was an outcast everywhere she went

- fearne was abandoned by her parents and has had her life be in the hands of others for over 100 years, mainly her “grandmother”, who has been stretching their time together to keep her longer. she’s also been killed, and found out that she was a purposefully made by a villain for some nefarious purposes

- ashton lives every single day in pain, grew up in a cult, died, woke up in a new body that was broken, didn’t know anything about himself, has been alone since he was a child, exploded into a thousand pieces before painfully reforming with new, more “broken” body parts

- fcg was an assassin bot that sat untouched for 2,000 years before being brought to life and thrown headfirst into society with no help or instructions, and then died tragically

- chetney has lived over 300 years by himself because his family abandoned him and he had to come to terms with the fact that they’re all likely dead, and the loss messed him up so bad that he’s avoided making meaningful connections with people ever since, and he literally JUST died, was revived, and watched the person who deemed him worthy of saving sacrifice themself

- orym watched the love of his life and his father figure be cut down in front of him, watched his friend accept a cursed crown that permanently changed her, was killed and revived

there’s no denying that she’s been through something horrendous, but she has to make the conscious choice to get better. to quote matt & marisha both: laudna is an addict, and she digs herself into her grief so deeply that she can’t see the cracks in everyone else.

she was right that orym should’ve talked to the whole group before taking otohan’s sword, but she was a hypocrite because she tried to steal it off of him. the sword is the source of her trauma, but it’s the source of orym’s too. she told chetney to not talk to her about loss after learning just mere weeks ago that he lost his entire family in one day.

i thought dorian put it beautifully: “it’s just a thing.” it only holds power over you if you let it. she’s dead. the blade no longer hurts you unless you let it.

there’s something so riveting about watching the nuances of trauma unfold in juicy, juicy ways

[utilitycaster]

It's become stunningly clear with this most recent episode that Imogen and Laudna's insularity, mistrust of everyone else in the party, and refusal to take responsibility for their actions is at the heart of the disconnect and lack of bonding within Bells Hells. It is not the only reason - I think Orym's constant smoothing over of issues in the interest of forward motion has certainly exacerbated the situation - but it's a significant and unavoidable factor. I'm hoping that while the actual exercises of the team-building probably won't themselves fix the issues this party has, addressing the various secrets that are now out, specifically the ones that touch on issues that affect the functioning and dynamics of the entire group, actually might.

As this post notes, their unwillingness to question each other or develop any conflict resolution with each other means they tend to, even if unwittingly, dogpile the rest of the group by acting as a singular voice. In a small conflict-averse group, this tends to constantly overwhelm the conversation. This is worsened by Imogen's psychic abilities, which permit her to glean information about the others without the need to have a conversation; it means the others in the party frequently start with two votes against them before they've even said anything.

They also both suffer from a pretty profound lack of boundaries. Again, Imogen's psychic abilities are invasive, frequently unwelcome, and often lead her to both jump to conclusions and to police the behaviors of others without considering their actions nor giving them any chance to have a full conversation. It also means she controls what information the rest of the party knows, as her interpretation of someone else's mental state is the only thing they're given when she reads someone's mind. Laudna, meanwhile, is extremely quick to trust, while also taking any deception as profound betrayal. As a result, they both tend to take a hot-or-cold approach to the others in the party based on the other person's most recent thought or action. They are prone to black-and-white thinking and snap judgments, which, as the next paragraph indicates, has serious ramifications.

Imogen and Laudna are terrible about actually talking to people and getting anything out in the open. This includes each other; again, see their frequent unquestioning support or the claim that their relationship defies words (which it does not; as of last episode this has culminated in Imogen revealing that, in fact, she is disgusted by a fundamental reality of their relationship, which is absolutely not something that can be addressed without a pretty intense conversation.) We also see this in how they've taken Fearne's choice not to take the shard. While, arguably, they had heard Fearne express her concerns about the shard to Morri by the time of the honesty exercise (which would make their behavior even worse), even if they hadn't, that's two voices shaming her for without hearing her side of the story. It's in sharp contrast with Chetney, who also expresses his disappointment with Fearne in episode 3x78, but immediately follows it up by asking her why she didn't want it. Imogen and Laudna never take it upon themselves to ask her how she feels or why she made that choice and let her explain; they jump straight to judgement.

That failure to ask ties into the final element of why they are the weak point in Bells Hells' communication: they are just as guilty as Ashton of "violent projection of responsibility", but unlike Ashton have not realized the depth of this flaw and the consequences it has not just on their own life but on the others in the party. This is less of an issue with Imogen with regards to Bells Hells (in fact one might argue she takes far too much responsibility in that she apparently sees policing the party on the basis of their thoughts to be her duty, though I would note that unattuning the circlet leaves her, the person with the clearest ties to the Vanguard, vulnerable to the powers of others within the organization) and far more so with the gods, from whom she apparently expects instant gratification. However, this is at the core of Laudna. It's true that she is by no means the only powder keg within the party; Chetney and FCG's abilities are also dangerous. However, one must take into account that Laudna has been aware of Delilah's presence for, as she has repeatedly stated, over three decades now, and only now realized the implications thereof, whereas Chetney became a werewolf less than a year ago and immediately took steps to mitigate the threat he posed, and FCG only learned of their condition within the past few months. Like Chetney, she has learned to remove herself from situations in which she could pose an immediate threat, but that slow learning curve and lack of proactivity is not promising for the future. It's also true that, keeping all other circumstances identical, the impact of Laudna's loss of control is far more dangerous. If Chetney bites someone or FCG attacks, unless they kill someone, the damage and curse can be undone and the power within them is unchanged. The same is not true with regards to what happens if Delilah makes Laudna absorb a magical item or a soul.

While everyone in Bells Hells shares some responsibility for the current state of affairs, Imogen and Laudna are without a doubt the primary source of toxicity. I think the others have become aware that they are in an environment in which Imogen is likely to either shoot them down, read their minds nonconsensually, or make insensitive suggestions, and that Laudna will nod along next to her as she does. It does not feel coincidental that Fearne chose not to voice her concerns and that Ashton avoided the group conversation entirely. This again does not absolve Ashton or Fearne of their deception of the party, but it does explain why they might feel an honest conversation is impossible. Unpacking what was said during the Honesty exercise might finally allow Bells Hells to excise this rot and to begin a new era of group conversations in which everyone feels they can say what needs to be said without fear, but it will be an effort to be sure.

Because it's me, I think it's worth noting that the fandom emphasis on absolving Imogen and Laudna of any accountability (which I've spoken about at length and have had on my radar for a long time now) is obviously not the cause of this behavior in-game, but does echo it in interesting ways. I'm not sure I would have realized the extent to which they evade responsibility in-game without this mentality being so prominently in the fandom. It explains why they are never expected, by many fans, to even achieve as minor a task as "asking Fearne how she feels instead of letting their own feelings dominate what they think she should do", let alone set boundaries for each other. But ultimately, that is the key: I think the only way for this party to achieve the trust they need is through the assertion of those boundaries. When Bells Hells know that they have the freedom to disagree with each other without being accused, dogpiled, ignored, or told to get it together, only then will they be able to actually come to true consensus rather than the fragile and tenuous teamwork they have had so far.

[rnelodyy]

"why are bells hells still arguing about what to do they should make a decision already" no!!!!!!! this is the "fly by the seat of your pants" party. this is the "we panicked and made porn" party. this is the "concussion theatre" party. i want them to not make any choice until they are At the fucking controls, hem and haw and argue for an hour and then panic and do something insane.

they are faced with an impossible choice that will affect the lives of the entire world. there's eight people in their party, all of whom have different opinions and perspectives, and they are on a MASSIVE time crunch. their options are risk the world to chase off the gods or go back to the status quo, and there's no way orym would agree to the former, and there's no way dorian and/or ashton would agree to the latter. this kind of debate is what you can make a career out of arguing about and they had to figure this shit out in like a month. Just yesterday they got another option they hadn't previously considered and they're having to talk about it in the middle of All The Other Shit they have to do, but if they pause to debate it NOW the decision will be made FOR them.

^^^^^ that is literally the juiciest fucking character drama imaginable. and you want it to stop??? you want them to just agree on a course of action and stick with it??????

look this is just what a morally grey narrative does to a mf. the mighty nein and vox machina didn't argue like this bc they didnt HAVE to, their villains (while absolutely deep and complex characters) had all the moral greyness of a saturday morning cartoon, so the only options they had were "stop them or dont and if you dont you're fucked". i fucking love VM and especially the M9 but istg im going to personally add five more minutes of God Arguments to the next episode for every person i see complaining that BH doesn't have the simple solution to the complex problem yet.

[masterqwertster]

I do appreciate that Ashton gave everyone a subtle jab for the fact that they were all super pissed about the Spark for at least overnight while Laudna is forgiven within 5-10 minutes.

Like, I get that Ashton's happening first means his is more unexpected and thus more raw. By the time Laudna makes a move, everyone is not entirely surprised that one of them could fuck up that badly. It's still not going to feel fair, though.

But also, Ashton's fuck up was (I feel) less malicious(? not really the right word, but I'm having trouble coming up with better) in a way. Fearne willingly let Ashton take the Spark out of her "possession," as the others had chosen her for it but she didn't want it while Ashton did. Ashton also didn't think he would explode or do damage to his friends down the road for taking that power. Meanwhile, Laudna was straight up stealing Ishta from Orym without consulting about it with any of the other Hells, much less Orym who was in possession of it. And she knows that Delilah is bad news and that Delilah will not have any problem harming Laudna's friends later (given the bitch has planted the idea that the Hells will betray Laudna, also the Gnarlrock Incident and encouraging/trying to force stealing the Spark for her/them), yet she aimed to give Delilah more power with which she could eventually do that anyways.

It also feels especially unfair because pretty much as soon as Ashton could talk about what they did (hard to discuss while you're literally trying not to explode), they were sorry for it. Laudna didn't express actual regret for the harm done to the others until after arguing to them all that she was right to do what she did, she had to face Imogen's disappointment one-on-one.

Not to mention that Ashton has very much sworn off making that kind of decision again while Laudna is very much open to it as it will be "wielding Delilah" (which I honestly don't trust her to do when "wielding Delilah" is giving the bitch what she wants in exchange for power and hoping it's not enough to tip the scales they do not know the balance of out of Laudna's favor).

I dunno. I just feel like Ashton immediately going for corrective actions for his mistake should have gotten him more grace than Laudna needing to be talked around to it while still taking wiggle room to make similar bad decisions.

Not how life works, I know, but it doesn't change the (personal) sentiment that they were overly harsh on Ashton and not stern enough with Laudna.

[siensapsap]

C3 E95 SPOILERS AHEAD

An interesting point that I haven't seen anyone make (yet) (I could have missed it) is that Delilah wants Laudna to blame the trauma of her dieing on the sword.

Everyone was hurt by that sword, and that means two things.

1) Orym should have asked before starting to carry it for himself.

2) Laudna should have asked instead of trying to steal it for herself.

Now, for Orym the reasons are kind of obvious as to why he felt like he could take it. It has taken two more people from him than from the others, and I think part of him saw it as carrying the burden of the sword for the entire party. He still should have asked, but he wasn't being unreasonable.

(I don't think Laudna was either from her perspective, but hear me out for a sec.)

Now, why would Laudna feel like she had the right to take the sword for herself without consulting anyone? How does she feel more entitled to it than the others?

I think she connected the added pain from what happened to her after dieing to that sword. And I think that's a combination of a coping mechanism and Delilah playing into that.

Because from Laudna's perspective it's a lot easier to blame the sword for that pain than to have to deal with the fact that it was the person that's still living in your head. It's a lot easier to blame the sword than to accept that your abuser can still hurt you and you have no control over that.

And from Delilah's perspective isn't it a golden opportunity to both shift the blame for that trauma off herself and drive a wedge between Laudna and the party at the same time?

The sword did not hurt Laudna worse than it did Fearne or Orym, but Delilah did. Delilah forced her to live through that nightmare, Delilah refused to let her rest in peace, Delilah is the real problem, not the sword.

This goes for the entire night, btw. Laudna should have asked, but Delilah would never let that happen. That would have meant stronger communication and bonds with her friends, and that would make Laudna less vulnerable to Delilah's manipulation. So she poked and prodded until Laudna couldn't think clearly anymore.

I just think that framing it as if the sword has hurt Laudna worse because she wasn't resurrected immediately is exactly what Delilah would want.

Just like framing this as a Laudna vs Orym thing, instead of Delilah causing problems, is exactly what Delilah would want.

Fuck Delilah.

[shorthaltsjester]

okay but i am very confused about the energy regarding the weavemind as. bells hells specific enemies? like sure they’re on ruidus and have been introduced in campaign 3 but none of bells hells have expressed a specific interest in taking them down, the weave mind has committed no specific crimes against bells hells that would equate it to being Justice™ for bh to fight them. even if you want to make the tenuous connection that like imogen and fearne are ruidusborn: both of them have focused much more on the consequences and revelations about their families that have come about from their ruidusborn existence than the authoritarian leaders of ruidus itself. so, uh, it is profoundly more interesting to have the party go after the person in charge of the army cult that contextualizes both of their existences and the trauma of the entirety of their party than a obscure group of villains that bh has no actual tangible relation to. like this was literally laid out in the conversation. bh get the cage and ludinus because that’s Their Fight that they’ve been fighting since imogen started dreaming and since orym’s family got killed. vox machina is taking the bridge because of the vax of it all. and mighty nein got the third less prevalent thing, because they’re experienced with psychic threats and manipulation (and also because of course the mighty nein are the ones dealing with the assignment less likely to be seen or heard about).

like the in-character reactions to the breakup of activities were only really considered anything close to negative by braius and dorian who while certainly now members of bells hells aren’t the ones upon which people are claiming to build their “this story is an injustice to the bells hells” sure it is. like ignoring the fact that being unable to get closure on every single issue and potential villain is a long-standing tradition in cr campaigns, i thought the thing everyone loved so much about bells hells is that they’re the npc party? and for better or worse c3 has been about being fast paced and it would be extraordinarily out of character for matt to say “oh these two high stakes and powerful groups have decided to fulfil their plans one at a time so that bells hells can sufficiently take them out.” like the only way that bells hells — the lowest level party — getting to take out One Of The Most Powerful Exandrian Mages is an injustice is if you’ve ignored the entire campaign and its context. like seeing the complaint that “it’s not bells hells story” yes, that has been made clear time and time again in the past 100 episodes. it’s completely fair to not like this, it’s extremely odd to see this as some sort of surprise wrecking ball that has come about in the decision to have more than one party of eight fuck ups trying to stop the unavoidably obvious world ending threat that exandria currently faces and not as something that has been made repeatedly clear by the themes and position of bells hells. like, throughout, unlike vm or mn, they have been handed their missions rather than choosing them (even if between 2 or 3 choices as was often the case with mn), they have explicitly discussed being the npcs or little guys, they have consistently gone to the bigger guys for help with things that previous parties either managed themselves or suffered without or had allies to help them (versus the like. Leaders that bh look to), even the dynamics of the parties express that bells hells are people stuck saving the world due to a bunch of personal moral codes rather than a specific decision to save the world because they’re the only ones who can, they’re expendable. that has made this campaign different throughout, it has made the characters less explored because they don’t have the time or means or desire to do so. and again it’s a matter of taste whether that’s something you enjoy, but it shouldn’t be a matter of “why would they do this” this far into the Bells Hells Aren’t Special They’re Just There campaign (which isn’t to say the characters aren’t special or whatever like they’re a bunch of weirdos but as a party they’re just a party)

[writeroffantasy03]

Loved 4-Sided Dive last night (especially that hilarious card game at the end). But I appreciated what Matt said about Dariax being on the ace spectrum and seeing Dorian as someone he admired and aspired to be like, like an older brother figure, because that’s exactly the vibe I got from him the entire time. (Wow, he’s good at acting, who could have predicted this.)

I guess it’s just nice to see that not everything has to be romantic, especially when many aspects of a character’s story and personality often feels read through shipping goggles. I say this as someone who has only clocked and shipped the canon pairings throughout the whole of Critrole (and is also on the ace spectrum). Sometimes it’s nice to appreciate the platonic relationships between characters, which are just as valid and important.

Other notes:

- We all knew Orym had feelings for Dorian, right??

- Aimee is hilarious. I need to see her in more games.

- Loved that Dariax would have stayed until the end to save Opal. (Glad she forced him to leave.)

- The whole CK arc and what BH just experienced is going to make for an interesting episode this Thursday.

[casimircrane]

Ashton woke up wrong. Maybe it was the humidity in the air, the new found cold, or the stars aligning to fuck with him, but they woke up in more pain than normal. Today is going to be a very bad day.

It had been two hours since he woke for his watch and they had already: sparked up a rage twice for something small, ripped their new pants at the knee, stormed off from the group so he wouldnt get frustrated and yell at his very dear, very much asleep, friends and the lace from their new glove had torn.

It was like the entire world was against him today, evident in the meltdown they were currently having a good 30ft from where the Hells were sleeping.

He needed pressure, a metric fuck ton of pressure, on them, now. They needed to be held together and compressed until they felt new. Until this awful day finally ended.

Fearne also woke up wrong. She missed the warmth of her home in the Feywild, Nana and her old friends, FCG, and most of all she missed waking up to Ashton. They were both too exhausted to do anything but collapse onto their seperate bedrolls last night. She was homesick for everything she considered home.

She sat up and looked at her friends, as she would often do on nights where sleep would evade her. Laudna slept with her arms crossed in a death hold with her eyes open, Imogen would now fall asleep holding Laudna, her lichtenburg marks providing an almost imperceptable light. Chetney was curled in a ball, in the middle of the group, Fearne had seen him only hours earlier circling that spot. Orym would gravitate to Dorian when he was there, tonight being no different, with him only six inches away curled and facing Dorian. Dorian was facing Orym too, he changed in thier time apart, more somber. Then there was the new guy. Essek whatever-his-name-is, he trances for eight hours when he could instead trance for four hours and take watch. His hair sometimes floats though, and his cat eyemask is adorable. That's everyone but the one person she really wants to see. Where's Ashton?

A sound a bit away makes her ear twitch. There they are.

Ashton is clutching himself, trying their hardest to give themself the pressure he desperately needs. He knows he's probably a mess, snot running down their nose and might be making noise.

Everything stops. They're pulled into a a furry blanket, no, not a blanket, a lap. Pressure. Warm, loving pressure. Something in them sings, like its the home they were never given as a child. He feels a light peck on their forehead, and suddenly the day is righted. He's still in so much pain, but its not important as what's happening right now. With Fearne. Where everything is safe and warm.

[vaxieth]

because something really did ask, have a much too long post about my thoughts on laudna’s individual dynamics with the rest of bells hells.

under the cut because it’s almost 3000 words.

laudna/imogen

i struggle to find something to say about imogen and laudna that hasn’t already been said a million times before. the core concept—the thesis—of their arcs, together and separately, is choice. so much of their backstories are defined by helplessness. laudna was chosen and killed because she happened to look like someone else, she was resurrected because she happened to be there. imogen’s mother left, she was burdened with powers she didn’t understand and meant constant pain and isolation. so, they make sure to constantly emphasize that the other person has a choice in everything. imogen tells laudna she only has to come back if she wants to, even though it would have devastated her to lose laudna forever. laudna tells imogen that the gods can’t control her, that no matter what her “destiny” is, if she wants, they can leave and live in a little cottage and raise horses together. the way they love each other unconditionally is all the more incredible given how cruel the world was to them for so long. laudna’s “you make me better” is true for both of them. they give each other a place to be vulnerable and feel all their messiest, worst feelings because they know the other one won’t judge them. they’ll support each other no matter the choices they make.

something i’ve mentioned quite a few times but never gone in depth about is that imogen and laudna do have a fairly significant age difference, and i do think that affects their dynamic. on the one hand, they both have a bit of arrested development—imogen due to her isolation from the rest of gelvaan from 18-26, laudna because she died at 20. on the other, laudna has so much more life experience than imogen. she spent almost 30 years traveling and interacting with the world even if was mostly people trying to kill her, maybe even because of that. the “laudna is imogen’s aunt/mother/older sister” takes were obviously ridiculous, but laudna does canonically look at imogen and see someone young who she wants to protect in a way she never was. she said as much to fcg after the gnarlrock fight. laudna acts as imogen’s rock, her tether if you will, a lot of the time, and part of the reason she can counterbalance imogen’s anxiety is because of the experience that comes with age. for example, during their conversation in episode 49, laudna is able to stay more “rational” and level-headed even when imogen is scared and overwhelmed. 

one of my other favorite things about them, specifically from laudna’s point of view, is that with a few exceptions (the gnarlrock fight, her jealousy of frida), she doesn’t seem insecure about their relationship. again, during episode 49, laudna mentions that she knows they haven’t talked in a while, but she didn’t worry because they “transcend words.” she didn’t need outside assurance from imogen because she felt confident in their love for each other. something i love about that episode 39-49 period is that they didn’t interact a lot, but when they did, they slipped right about in the same kind of intimacy they’d always had—imogen holding launda’s hand when they went into her dream together, laudna’s protectiveness of imogen after she interacted with ludinus. but anyway—that confidence is why i believe the transition from friends to lovers was so easy for laudna. laudna’s unsure of herself, of delilah and what she might do, but she’s absolutely not unsure of the love between her and imogen. that’s why as soon as imogen tells her she’s not a bad person, that she wants to be with laudna in that way, she lets herself embrace it entirely.

in conclusion: they invented romance, they’re the best canon pairing critical role has ever had and one of the best dynamics in general, etc., etc.

laudna/orym

oh my god, WHERE to begin? i feel like my take on their dynamic is slightly controversial. at the very least, i get more push back from people when i post about it than anything else, so let me start with this: orym cares deeply about laudna, i will never dispute that. however, orym is uncomfortable with laudna and has been since the very beginning of the campaign. she’s his friend and he recognizes her beautiful heart and resilient spirit, but he’s uncomfortable with her appearance and her messages in his head, with her macabre humor and her deadness. he can’t reconcile that laudna his friend and laudna the dead woman can’t be separated. laudna’s deadness is a part of her, one laudna embraces. orym, for better or worse, is “normal.” he grew up with a loving family and he had a husband and a career. will and derrig’s deaths were an unbelievable tragedy but one that never challenged his place within the status quo. (sidenote: i’ve always wondered if part of orym’s discomfort with laudna come from the fact that her proximity to death is a reminder of the resurrections will and derrig never got.) he sees himself as a follower, someone that doesn’t stand out, then there’s laudna, who does nothing but stand out. 

something i find fascinating is that orym is the first person to find out laudna’s backstory, and it affects him so much he can’t sleep that night and takes a point of exhaustion. he even explicitly recognizes the dehumanization she’s gone through and how laudna’s relationship with puppets like pate and sashimi mirror that. yet, he still never apologizes for trying to disguise her appearance, something without even asking. yes, i get it’s tactical and for “safety” (though that argument falls a bit flat for me when there’s also a glowing rock person and a fully conscious automaton in the group, but whatever), but it still hurts laudna. even beyond that, orym always qualifies his friendship with laudna to other person, making some mention of how she’s dead-looking and isn’t that crazy, wow, almost as if he wants some validation that it—laudna—is weird (one he, interestingly, rarely ever gets, given how enraptured most of the other pcs, including guests, and even some npcs, are with her). he does this even in situations he absolutely doesn’t need to like, for example, when maeve says laudna “looks cooler than i thought.” all this just sucks. it’s not that the love isn’t there, it is. it just isn’t unconditional, and laudna deserves better than that.

finally: the delilah in the room. no, it isn’t orym’s “fault” delilah is back. yes, he was also having an extremely bad time during the bor’dor fight and it wasn’t his “responsibility” to save laudna from herself, but laudna is orym’s friend. he listened to laudna tell him the trauma delilah put her through, he fought through hell to save laudna from her, and still nodded because part of him thought maybe delilah could help him and that was selfish. the fight against ludinus is important to of the bells, but for orym, it’s personal. it’s been his mission for six years. meanwhile, laudna is the one with the least enthusiasm about this. she has no connection to the gods. in fact, she actively thinks they dislike her, but he’s willing to sacrifice not just his safety, but the safety of her and all his friends for a cause they never set out to fight for.

in conclusion: i want to put them in a salad mixer together and watch them go around and around and around and around and around, then let them out to scream at each other a little.

laudna/ashton

if i had to explain laudna and ashton’s dynamic in one word, it would be “projection.” i adore their relationship, it’s one of my top 5 c3 dynamics, but oh my god, so much projection, and it’s so interesting because of that. ashton thinks he understands laudna, but in reality, he doesn’t at all. i’m an absolute sucker for characters that look very different on the surface but in reality are much more similar than they know, and ashton and laudna are that to a tee. they are very much narrative parallels especially regarding their feelings of “brokenness” and how their traumas are physical, visual parts of themselves, but the ways they diverge are almost more interesting.

certain people have said that her conversations with ashton are the only time laudna is “honest” or that, at the very least, she’s more honest with him than she is with anyone else, and i couldn’t disagree more. laudna can be a joyful, optimistic person and deeply traumatized with a core anger she hasn’t truly processed. laudna is a high-charisma character, and in my opinion, part of how that manifests is her ability to adapt her demeanor to the person she’s talking to. she speaks gently to imogen the same way she matches chetney’s hyperactive energy when they go sky-sailing. of course when she’s with ashton, who makes no effort to hide his anger and bitterness and doesn’t want her to be soft, she isn’t. none of these laudnas are more “real” than the others, they’re all laudna. what those people, and ironically, ashton themself, don’t get, or won’t let himself get, is that all those things can be true at once.

with ashton specifically, i don’t think they want to believe that because then they’d have to admit that growth and healing is a real possibility because anger is so much easier to deal with. people talk most about orym’s choices during the bor’dor fight most, but i’m fascinated by ashton’s as well. i wouldn’t be surprised if there was a part, no matter how small, that wanted laudna to break, to prove to himself that he was right and laudna was just as broken and fucked-up as them. so, laudna killing bor’dor was almost vindication, evidenced by their “what have i done?” “nothing i haven’t done.” exchange afterwards.

i don’t want this to sound like ashton doesn’t care about launda, they do. ashton cares about her so much, and besides imogen and fearne, is the most unabashedly into laudna’s aesthetic. i love how much they love all the weird shit she does. i love how protective ashton is of laudna, especially during battles and their willingness to go above and beyond for her—he carried laudna when she was dead despite his chronic pain without complaining once and were willing to make a deal with hexum after going through an entire museum heist to repay their debt. i love the moments when ashton sees how much laudna is struggling and tells her, as gently as he can, to take a moment and do what she can to ground herself. i love that when laudna way too dramatically assumes they kidnapped imogen, their response is “that’s very fair.” it’s all wonderful, and i love them.

in conclusion: I LOVE THEM SO MUCH AND I WANT TO LOCK THEM IN A ROOM AND FORCE THEM TO TALK ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS FOR HOURS.

laudna/fcg

laudna and fcg have been getting more attention in the past few days for obvious reasons and that has me rubbing my hands together maniacally because even though they have very little actual interaction, the subtext is delicious. 

besides ashton, fcg might be the character laudna parallels the most, especially their struggle with their humanity (if they’re even human at all), which isn’t helped by the constant dehumanization they face from outsiders, including the almost continuous comments they get when they meet someone new. people look at launda and see a horror while they look at fcg and see a novelty (he’s a robot with personality??), and those both suck. i think, for fcg, laudna is an uncomfortable reflection of himself because everything they’re afraid is true about themself is true about laudna. finding out they had a soul was such an important moment for his character (also remember his early campaign habit of calling other people “soul-touched folks”). as a hollow one, who knows if laudna even has a soul. if i’m honest, fcg seems to think less of laudna than the rest of the party (see: him calling her a “former person,” his speech before casting turn undead including, “no offense to laudna but can you please shine your light and wipe these evil, dead souls off the face of this flat planet?”) and that’s probably why. they have such strict ideas about “good,” which has become “godly,” and “wrong,” (“ungodly”), and within that framework, everything seemed to point to laudna as “ungodly,” which is why their empathy towards her is lacking. 

the biggest conflict between fcg and laudna right now is obviously their feelings on the gods. the changebringer brought fcg purpose and tangibly helps them on a daily basis. of course they want to share this incredible thing with everyone they meet, especially his friends. yet, time-and-time again, the world has shown laudna the gods don’t seem to care about her. before someone says anything, pike resurrecting laudna doesn’t automatically mean she has to trust the gods. clerics and paladins spent 30 years running her out of towns for existing and trying to kill her in the name of their gods. if the circumstances were different, there’s a good chance fcg could have been one of those people. for fcg, the world is black-and-white. for laudna, it’s all gray. laudna was able to have a conversation with imogen about the ruby vanguard’s message and the purpose of the gods because she understands the need to question things and thinks that’s a good thing even if she doesn’t agree with the conclusions. fcg’s not there yet, and until he is, their friendship with laudna will never be able to progress past where it is now.

in conclusion: please have a conversation, maybe even two or three. it’d be so good for fcg to learn the world’s incredible nuances and for laudna to see how faith in the gods can be an empowering force for good, not just something beyond her grasp.

laudna/fearne

out of all launda’s dynamics, this is the one i desperately want more of. we’ve gotten so little! almost all their moments are interactions between the three witches that tend to center imogen (making the red-string friendship bracelets and comforting imogen after she talked with relvin come to mind) OR center imogen and fearne’s mutual appreciation for laudna’s… everything. one of my favorite about fearne is that, like imogen, she doesn’t think laudna is gross and creepy, she thinks laudna is gorgeous and charming without any caveats. even ashton, who also loves laudna’s laudnaness, tends more towards “yeah, you’re disgusting and THAT’S why it’s great.”

the other main part of their dynamic i want to sink my teeth into is the coin-toss, more specifically fearne’s guilt over the coin toss. regardless of whether you think fearne lied (i personally find that headcanon FASCINATING but to each their own), she clearly feels so many emotions about having to pick whether to save laudna and orym that she hasn’t even begun to unpack. one of the few sole moments we’ve gotten of them was in episode 42 when laudna asked fearne to help teach her to cast fireball, and in it, fearne, unprompted, blurts out, “how’s it feel being alive again?” almost immediately. she also apologizes to laudna, says they’ll fight any piece of delilah that’s still in there, and tells her, “i missed you terribly for that moment in time.” even when laudna gives her the chance to make the conversation light-hearted, fearne stays so genuine, which is all the more-noteworthy because she’s usually so flippant and almost always keeps her real feelings close to her chest. 

some other examples of fearne’s guilt include: the 4sd where ashley said part of why she was so protective over imogen during their separation arc was that she couldn’t bear having to tell laudna anything happened to her and just this past episode when fearne’s protectiveness after laudna made her only cast first-level cure wounds on fcg after they cast turn undead.

in conclusion: PLEASE LET THEM INTERACT MORE. THERE’S SO MUCH JUICY POTENTIAL AND I WANT TO SEE IT EXPLORED.

laudna/chetney

i don’t have that much to say about them except that their dynamic is absolutely delightful. i love that we’ve gotten to see more of it in recent episodes, and i hope that continues. 

chetney exists at an interesting place between orym’s genuine discomfort and fearne and imogen’s complete enchantment with laudna’s undeadness. he is sometimes grossed out, but he also seems to accept it as a thing about laudna without too much judgment, or at least, that “judgment” is light-hearted in a way orym’s or even fcg’s isn’t.

i love that they’re the characters with the most life experience (even if laudna is technically the fourth oldest, fcg only has two years of memory and fearne is a 100+ but spent 99% of that time in one place) but also embrace being “childish” and silly together, like the entire sky-sail sequence! 

in conclusion: *gently holds* i just think they’re neat!

that’s all! if you read this whole thing, you get my eternal love and gratitude. thank you.

[burr-ell]

With respect to the previous reblog—I sped up almost all of the Otohan combat to 1.5 and only put it back to normal when Sam started FCG's last turn. And it's not that I can't be invested in climactic combat or even really difficult climactic combat! I watched the fights with Ripley, Thordak, Raishan, Vecna, the Iron Shepherds, Uk'otoa, and Vespin Chloras, some of them multiple times, and I was invested the entire way through.

But here's the thing: I do not currently play DnD, and prior to watching CR I knew very little about the mechanics. I learned with the cast as I was watching C1, and as the show went on I paid more and more attention because I could see how the mechanics of combat interacted with the story. When there's a moment where the crunch of combat powerfully reflects a character's arc? That hits, even as someone with little personal knowledge of the PHB. I am not, however, invested in just watching three hours of combat for its own sake...and Otohan's build feels like combat for its own sake.

Obviously the cast is really invested in the story; it's their characters and they're the ones making the choices and rolling the dice. They've been doing this together for over a decade, and they're really impressed by the raw power of Otohan's build. But as a viewer? This simply is not fun to watch. I mean, there are some great moments for the Hells—all of Orym's nat 20s, Fearne using the power of Rau'shan and deliberately casting Blight through touch, Chetney's last words—but I don't know anything about Otohan. I don't know why she's here. I don't know what her motives are. I don't know why exactly she's so OP—"Legend of the Peaks" is just set dressing to me because none of the characters care about the Apex War and Matt has never forced the issue.

Like, sure, they're an exaltant Ruidusborn, but...okay? Why do they get legendary actions and resistances? Where'd their goofyass lil Lands End backpack even come from? Why are they here? No one can do a swagless villain monologue like Ludinus; no one can evade child support like Liliana. But who cares about Otohan, as a character and not just the scary hero-killer? That role in the story could be occupied by any well-built level 20 melee combatant and the narrative wouldn't miss anything.

Without all of the necessary development to get me invested, this just seems like she's OP just to make her "hardcore" or whatever—and Matt's never made a villain like that, so I know this could have been portrayed better and simply wasn't. As it stands, she's had more presence in the stupid Moon Moms fanon (which seems to have been found dead on Ruidus anyway) than she has in the actual canon of the show. I'm always happy when a villain dies, but in this case, it's just good riddance.

[deramin2]

Bell's Hells had a mental health crisis on the eve of their deployment to the global crisis front lines, and went to a HAG for help. Protected only by being with her granddaughter (mob boss's granddaughter core). Specifically one who delights in voyeurism of bumbling awkwardness and failure. She treats people like her own personal soap opera. Allura said she's known to feed off misery. They tell Mori her intervention could influence the entire fate of the gods and the world.

FCG makes a deal with the hag and ASKS to have their memory wiped so they'd get to be surprised about what happens. Likely the payment was them being sufficiently interesting and dramatic for her because they implicitly trust her to help them.

The hag then tosses a magic lens into an ordinary feywild ravine with three magically enforced rules: they must bring her the lens to win. If they speak truths, a path will appear upwards. If they tell lies a new thing will go wrong for them. She then watches them escalate her high-stakes truth or dare game into telling each other their rawest internal shit they were keeping to themselves but were coloring their feelings. Fair or not. They do this remarkably willingly under her trap.

Then she sets them up on a video game platformer challenge where you have to physically navigate a path overa casm blind protected only by your friends in co-op chat looking the map. She sets up thunder hornets nests to punish themIf they have natural human reactions of concern. They win two rounds and then lose one. So she makes a new rule that they can take the loss (and unknown consequences) or try one more time but instead of it being safe game rules it's now potentially deadly. They agree. This time they win through expert teamwork and suppressing their emotions.

Last the hag sets them up with a game of TF2 vs. a spy team but no one knows who's missing. They have to capture three briefcases while KNOWING some of their team mates are working against them. Orym has to execute those contingency plans while uncovering whose a traitor and who's actually on his side but as sketchy as usual.

This is what they've all discussed as their nightmare scenario. This is what they are so afraid to go through that the misery is tearing them apart. She's forcing them to go through the thing they least want to face. As a practice run. Because the fear underneath is not just of betrayal, but failure. That if they can't work together they will fail to save the world, and thus everyone in the world. What's that really look like if that happened and you could lose for real? And not know what happens to them if they fail.

Some A+ reality TV content produced by Mori Entertainment. They might win an Exandrian daytime Emmy. Look at all that abject bubbling missery being created. An incredible feast willingly given. All they have to do is be normal for them in her vicinity and they basically asked her to feed off them as a favor to try an unsanctioned new therapy method on humanoid subjects. If she does nothing to hurt them except giving them games they asked for, she still gets a gourmet meal.

Nana Mori is simultaneously being a doting grandmother and a terrifying fey nightmare and Bell's Hells are like "please grandmother I think your death traps could fix me."

Will dopplegangers fix them? That remains to be seen. Depends on how they handle it. But they'll have a trial run to know for sure. That gives them time to break for real or adjust. Mori IS the fate stitcher, and thread came to her begging to be sewn. She plucks the strings that she finds most interesting. And whatever else they are, Bell's Hells are very interesting.

[utilitycaster]

what are those 5 things? 👀

Seeing people start admit that maybe Imogen and Laudna did in fact pressure Fearne excessively hard to take the shard. I think it's good Fearne took it in the end, but yeah they really made it difficult for her to express her doubts and that was shitty of them. I got extensive hate for saying that at the time from people who are literally saying the same thing now. It's very funny.

The (entirely valid) complaints I've seen that people care more about imo/dna as a ship than Laudna as a character and are making her book solely about the fact that Imogen will show up in it. I pointed out this exact same problem occurring while Laudna was dead, almost two years ago.

Caleb considering leaving the Nein means they aren't really bonded. Imogen considering leaving Bells Hells means she's so perfect and caring and selfless and noble and good. Anyway yeah sure I definitely believe that if Imogen were a man played by Liam everyone would definitely be totally uncritical and love everything she did. (This is also a layered one, given how Twitter has been bashing Orym nonstop for over a year).

I know it's been a month and I've said this repeatedly so this is a bit tacky but I'm still riding the absolute Irony High of people being like "STOP TALKING ABOUT HUBRIS STOP TALKING ABOUT HUBRIS anyway of COURSE Bells Hells would NEVER see the gods as a messed up family, just like them" and then jump cut to Laudna literally saying that. It's just genuinely so funny that people mad at everyone calling Aeor full of hubris proceeded to get their wax wings straight up vaporized at the top of episode 102.

People calling imo/dna the bestest most organic most slow-burn sapphic ship ever (it's not even the longest slow-burn f/f ship on Critical Role; even if you're stupid enough to count the two years we know virtually nothing about just for the purposes of padding out the time to eliminate Beauyasha on a technicality - nevermind that slowburn is about the length of the story itself and not the length of time the characters have known each other, since it's obvious that if someone said 'here's Jane and Kate, they've known each other for 300 years, now they are kissing' this would not be a satisfying slowburn unless like, you went back and filled in the 300 years - Kimallura STILL wins) but as someone who received a decent amount of harassment for saying it wasn't very interesting and as such kept tabs on the people engaging in that harassment...they've been dropping like flies. If it's the best sapphic ship ever and it's canon and you're in the top 5 ships for the show of all time on ao3 and Delilah's gone and they're going to get their cottage, funny how a good chunk of the shippers haven't even managed to stay interested in CR. Also why are half the people who HAVE kept up like hmmmm what if I threw Fearne or Ashton in there. Like believe me, I support a poly hells situation, but uh. quite a tumble for what people used to call the Beating Heart Of The Campaign (TM).

Bonus! This is below a cut because it has spoilers for next week's Re-Slayer's Take that's only out for Beacon subscribers but

we see Devexian, and he meets Frog (an aeormaton PC) and his overall statement on Aeor is "it created us to serve, and we fought for our autonomy. It was both a beautiful and terrible place. Anyway the past is past, what's important is that we as aeormatons take our chance to live now, and my personal goal is not just to bring back as many aeormatons as I can, but learn how to make more aeormatons." He is completely uninterested, at least in 839 PD, in any sort of action against the gods. Like, I think he regrets the fall of Aeor because a lot of Aeormatons and knowledge died in it but he literally is like "your life is defined by your own choices, not your designation at the time of Aeor." The actual survivors of the fall of Aeor are like anyway, we want acceptance, autonomy, and the means to control our own production in modern day Exandria. Ludinus whomst.

[waltwhitmansbeard]

so i just read a post explaining why the op (and, according to the op, a lot of other people, even tho the post in question only had 32 notes, some of which were from people who disagreed with them) didn't like the cut to the crown keepers in last week's episode. while i'm totally on board with people not jibing with stuff that just doesn't work for them, i wanted offer some reasons why this seemingly hard pivot to people who are not the main characters of the story being told was a good decision to make (note good decision, not inherently the best decision, which i believe no one, including the dm, at a ttrpg table should ever be expected to make).

matt had an extremely powerful, extremely unexpected character decision dropped in his lap in the final moments of the previous episode. we don't know exactly how much time matt has between recordings, maybe a full week, maybe not, but either way, there's a very real chance that matt just did not have enough time to fully prepare a session to deal with fcg's death and what comes next.

sam now has to create a new character that a) is of a level with the rest of the party and b) makes narrative sense for him to be there. that takes time for both him and matt, and they might just need some space to work on that. when laudna died, marisha was willing to sit away from the table for several weeks because she knew that she wanted laudna to be resurrected, but sam may not want the same thing, and that's okay!

matt may want to fold the crown keepers into his main story, some or all of them—particularly dorian, whom both liam and the fans have been asking to return for a while now. dorian is clearly important to orym and the story that liam is trying to tell, and bringing the crown keepers in may be matt's way to do that.

matt—and dms generally—has always had to straddle a very fine line of making sure that his players are the main characters of their story who feel like their actions have real consequences and effects on the world, while also understanding that in reality, it doesn't make sense for half a dozen chucklefucks to have such an outsized effect on major cosmological goings-on like *checks notes* the potential release of a god-eater. this becomes especially true when you're on your third campaign set in the same world, and your players' previous ultra-powerful pcs are still around and definitely more adept and connected than their current pcs are. i, personally, think matt does a great job at walking that line, and one of the things he does that i appreciate is that he doesn't shy away from the fact that a) his players are powerful but not the most powerful and b) his players aren't the only one who care about what's going on in the world and who are taking actions to effect change. the current plotline re: ruidus is absolutely world-shaking and is causing all the divine girlies to cower in their demiplanes, so of course even the evil ones are going to be calling on their champions to help out. it makes more sense for opal to be involved (which, btw, matt has been hinting at for a while now) than not.

matt might need a fucking break! he's been doing this consistently for nine years now, and shit is complicated! handing over the reins to aabria for a week or two or three may be what he needs to not get burnt out.

dnd is an emotional game, and the entire cast might have been rocked hard by fcg's death. some space away for a week or two could help them process and regroup to get back into a story that is otherwise very stressful and action-packed.

or it's none of these! what do i know! i'm a random idiot on the internet! matt doesn't consult me on these matters! (though my dms are open if he wants to chat, i do have ideas)

i think it's tempting to think of the decisions made in and around critical role (or any ttrpg show) like those made for a television series, because the episodes are serialized and we love them so much. but this show is, first and foremost, a group of friends playing a game together, and not a carefully constructed narrative with the primary goal of entertaining an audience. the audience always has been and, frankly, always should be second to the wishes and fun of the people around that table. matt would not have asked aabria to step in and dm a crown keepers side arc if he didn't think it was a good decision for him and his players, and that priority is the correct one. we are being invited in to watch these friends have fun together, and that's a privilege that we're super lucky to have. as long as the cr story isn't doing things that are outright abusive or harmful to the cast or the audience, i don't think we should begrudge them the choices they make in the name of their own game.

again, it's okay if you're not vibing with the crown keepers! i didn't love the aeor arc of c2! not everything is for everyone! but i think accusing matt and the cast of narrative malfeasance is a bit much when, tbqh, they don't answer to us. they answer to each other.

[hazelcephalopod]

So it was… complicated in the end. Everything went tits up basically. Not entirely unexpected. The Betrayers Betrayed. There was the unpredictable. The CG god of beauty and magic destroyed Aeor, after the weapon was fired by the Betrayers and a mage fired the failsafe via a localized wish over Aeor* -basically weaponizing the entire city.

The hardest parts, the very worst- the Stormlord and whoever else was sending every wind in Exandria towards Aeor killing hundreds in minutes? Everything else was the heat of battle, decisions made of many sides. That was… well, a massive brutal assault with no warning and siege all in one. No one hardly blinked, they entered battle with glee. Then. They looked at what they had done. They regretted it, they had remorse. In the end they struck me as very fallible; but also how they are not mortals, how they conceive of things is based on how they exist. They’ve seen countless cities rise and fall, probably with and without their involvement. Mortals live so quickly, have such a small affect in the grand scheme of things 99.9% of the time. Mortals can not fully comprehend gods, but imho even if they can live as mortals for a bit they can not truly comprehend mortals -based off what we’ve seen with the Matron I think godhood fundamentally affects their perception and psyche. This to me was not explanation nor excuse, just perspective. They committed an atrocity, now they have to reckon with it. They are now realizing they can not remain and preserve their beloved world and children, all except them -perhaps even them- will be utterly obliterated if they stay and they have to reckon with that. They will eventually exile themselves. I don’t think mortals need to forgive them or not -personally, I think the truth coming out would be enough justice and let each make their own choice as to how to deal with that information.

Who came out looking the worst imho was the Archeart. They made the choice to destroy the city, destroy the knowledge -save perhaps for themself and the KM. That did take me by surprise, yet, most fitting. This was in fact their mess. They gave mortals magic, and they created a weapon to destroy gods with it.

Personally I am conflicted, they destroyed this entire city. An entire culture. Nearly every Aeormaton in existence fell with Aeor -and yet in a few centuries they will be repaired, will roam the ground beneath. They will how we be forever scarred by it, as all Exandria is. Yet. What being does not seek to persevere its existence? We saw, the gods came to exandria not on purpose, but by circumstance. They crash landed fleeing obliteration they had never having even faced an end before. Their entrance into this existence prompted by massive trauma, the need to survive for the first time. They do not wish to die, especially as ending is a thing that so very rarely happens to them and only in violent or unnatural end. They have little experiance with they type of entity ending that is not deeply traumatic. Tbh. I don’t think another wrong will make a right. I don’t thing vengeance disguised as some desperate justice will a) work; b) lead to much good. Especially when we know who is at the helm of seeking that.

Which brings us back to the final and first point -as best as we can assume so far. Ludinus wants to use Predathos to destroy the gods. He shows this to Bells Hells to convince them to join him? Tbh I don’t think much will change, perhaps opinions will be cemented. In the end Ludinus is still the man who killed Orym’s husband and kin. He’s still the boss of the one who killed their friend. He’s still a man who has orchestrated so much harm, and done so as a mortal -as far as we know. We still don’t really know the extent of Predathos danger. We do know Ludinus has already brought one civilization to ruins, led another as the shadow leader of an authoritarian state which is dripping in blood. He evades justice constantly. Is this the person to being justice to the gods? What will he sacrifice for his vision of what the world should be? I struggle to believe BH will go along with that -i admit I can not discount it entirely. Are the willing to gamble their world on Ludinus’ dark dream?

(Edit) *did so while embracing the woman who created the weapon. Telling her he was proud. (And then pushing her into the gate tbh. I do not remember where that gate went)

PS: we barely know Braius so no idea but I’m going to guess anti Ludinus. Teven is a champion of hell, so also no.

PPS: Essek? Maybe if things were different, if he didn’t have the history he had, with Ludinus and other. If he hadn’t accepted that his actions have consequences and has regrets. Interestingly he might sympathize more with the gods especially if they see how much the gods regretted what they did. He cussed the inciting incident of a war, he did some fucked up shit during that war. He can never go home again.