#this is the: because of people like you the real victim's are not believed

[sitronsangbody]

Warning: this gets grim

I'm up at night thinking about an episode of Supernatural and how it demonstrates some really heinous public attitudes toward fat people.

Mild spoilers for Supernatural season 6 I guess:

Dean Winchester has to take on the job of Death for a day, meaning he has to go to those who are supposedly destined to die, witness their final moments, and give them the touch of death, thus claiming their lives and sending them to the afterlife. He soon struggles to live up to his responsibilities as he's required to end the lives of a sick child and a young nurse. His first two victims, however, don't bother his conscience at all. The first is an armed robber who threatens to shoot a little boy and gets killed by the boy's father. The second is a fat man who has a heart attack.

When I say fat, what I really mean is fat-coded; the man is simply not stick thin in the way that nearly every character on the show is, so he counts as fat and his storyline (minor though it is) is tied to his size. He is in his 50s, maybe early 60s. We first see him wolfing down a cheeseburger, and Dean says "this looks like a heart attack situation", before the man indeed clutches his chest and dies. When he asks why he had to die, Dean's reply is: "you think maybe it was the extra cheese?"

His death is not portrayed as tragic in any way. He himself is only mildly distressed. We don't get to see anyone grieving for him. His death is there to be one of the Easy ones, an unsurprising, almost comical and even deserved(?) death to make Dean think it's not that bad of a gig, ending people's lives. And we, the viewers, are supposed to agree. We're not invited to feel sad for this man in the slightest, even in retrospect. Everyone who created this scene and decided to keep it in the show, believed this to be a normal way to think of a fat person suddenly dying. This came out in 2010.

It just encapsulates so much stuff - really fucking dark stuff, I might add - about how fat lives have been viewed through the years. That scene (and scenes like it) says:

- when fat people die, it's because they brought it on themselves. They are ticking timebombs and their death is expected.

- when fat people die young, no they don't, because being fat means living on borrowed time anyway, so a fat person dying way earlier than the average life expectancy is not tragic the way it is if a thin person does.

- when fat people die, it's definitely because they are fat (and they are fat because they make bad choices).

- when fat people eat what's considered unhealthy food, it's depressing and stupid and they're out of control. Dean Winchester is canonically a big fan of fast food and eats burgers all the time on the show. Because he is thin and fit, this is portrayed as fun, relatable and manly.

- when fat people die, it's not sad.

And like, I wish this was exclusive to fiction, but there are real people who act like this when real fat people die. Like they know why, even if they have no clue, like it shouldn't be shocking, like it's self-inflicted and therefore deserved, and like it probably wasn't much of a life anyway so it's just not that tragic, really.

This stuff is, just for me personally, one of the roughest sides of anti-fatness. When people deny us dignity in death. Partly because it's so ghoulish, and partly because it's so ubiquitous it appears in media like this, without controversy. I'd like to believe there would be stronger reactions had this plotline come out today in 2025, but I am not confident.

[princessefemmelesbian]

One thing I wish MRAs and transandrophobia truthers understood is that the statement “women are seen as more innocent/valuable/worthy of protection” is not a universal truth and is in fact a belief steeped in whiteness. Whiny men who want to pretend that they’re oppressed for being men simply LOVE to claim that women are privileged in society because we’re seen as more innocent and given the benefit of the doubt for some things, or are seen as less dangerous, or are “cared for more” by society, or can use our “tears” to manipulate men and get ourselves out of trouble. And while sometimes this can have some basis to it, like how some people believe that women can’t rape men, or when they say “women and children”, for instances, in the majority of cases it has not been true, and I am slowly realizing why. It’s because that idea(at least in the West) has only ever been applied to white women.

Women of color NEVER get the advantage of being seen as innocent, soft, or worthy of protection, especially Black women who are stereotyped instead as strong, hardworking, mannish mules due to slavery, as well as adultified and sexualized. The same applies to other races of women like mestiza-Latina women who are seen as “spicy” or East Asian women who are seen as innocent and childlike but not in a way that inspires protection like in white women, but in a way that lets them be seen as “submissive” and thus open to be fetishized and exploited/discarded by white men as well.

Women of color are also raped more than white women, specifically due to the idea that we are inherently more sexual and less innocent than white women and always available for sexual domination and don’t deserve our virtue and dignity protected the way that white women do, but also, more twistedly, due to the idea that we are inherently more “tough” and less dainty and feminine than white women and are built to withstand brutalization, thus we can be treated roughly and abused more harshly than white women, because women of color aren’t “real” women you see? You can beat them and sexually abuse them and even murder them as aggressively and inhumanely as well, they can take it! They like it rough! They don’t deserve protection and safety and love, because they aren’t real women, y’see, they aren’t even human! And we all know about white woman tears, that isn’t anything new.

Really women of color are never given the advantage of being innocent or being catered to like princesses the way MRAs and transmisogynists claim, it is really a western/white-centric viewpoint above all else and it bothers me to see people parrot it without realizing that this only applies to white women. It’s like they only consider white women when they talk about women, it’s really sad and maddening but hey there’s white femininity for ya. It makes sense, though, because both groups are comprised predominantly of angry sensitive white men who are upset because they feel like society doesn’t coddle them enough, rather than that it coddles them too much, and take out their insecurity over their manhood and inability to reckon with their male privilege out on the more vulnerable women in their communities, whom they irrationally see as to blame for their frustration and hurt feelings. They don’t give the slightest shits about women of color, and especially not about trans women of color, because acknowledging women of color’s existence would completely upend their worldview and force them to confront the fact that they are not the ultimate victims of the planet, and that they have the power to oppress someone else and they don’t like that! If nobody’s coddling their ass 24/7, then that means that the entire world is against them, doesn’t it? And women become the enemy for pointing it out. That’s honestly all this is at this point. So done.

[damnfandomproblems]

About 7434: Buddy… the people that argue or get behind people like you saying that certain types of fiction will make someone diddle a kid whether it be a ship or a fanfic that you personally find disgusting, are probably pedos themselves trying to hide their crimes. Or… people look the other way when actual kids are getting hurt.

I recently looked at a Twitter crash-out where he argued that fiction will make people attack children, but he has made fun of a dead person, he tried to make cryptocurrency, and he blatantly ignored and victim blamed minors (being 13-15 mostly) being groomed and hit on by ADULTS in HIS Discord server. You’re dangerously starting to sound exactly like that guy, submitter.

Not only that, someone on Twitter pointed out a pedophile ring called blue something (I forgot what the actual name was) but someone looked the other way because the person who pointed that out is a lolicon and proshipper. We’re talking about REAL LIFE children getting harmed on social media out in the open and you’re making it about fiction? Good job showing you don’t care about actual children.

People used EDP445’s argument of “Lolicon = Pedophilia.” Which is rich coming from someone who tried to groom what he thought was a 13 year old girl, and then did the same thing again, but with a 16 year old and got caught twice. Like okay, you’re gonna rally behind a pedo to make your argument? Okay, you’re an idiot who does not care about actual children.

If you really, truly believe the yucky fanfiction and ships people like are pedophilic and you insinuate that it’s illegal, then call the police, see what happens.

Before anyone goes, “Anon, don’t say that, they are going to do this and waste resources,” trust me, when people use this counterargument, antis start to fold. Or if they actually do waste resources, let them get punishments for their actions.

Might as well say, “violent video games turn people into serial killers,” “Pokemon cards encourage gambling and has satanic practices,” or women reading smutty romance (even between two consenting adult characters) is sinful then, lol.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[didalexiabreakupwitholgaisback]

i think two things can be true at once

mapi intended to tap daniela’s leg and does not and daniela feels violated by an action that from her pov is intentional

daniela is still the victim regardless of anything else that happens

but mapi genuinely believes she’s done nothing wrong hence the nature of that statement (i take great issue with the ‘alleged’ wording surrounding the online abuse because that is in no way ambiguous

mapi obviously at the very least still needs to apologise to daniela, even if she doesn’t believe she touched her or intended to touch her where she did. daniela still felt violated and deserves an apology

i don’t think mapi is this big bad predator that everyone has made her out to be, i honestly believe it was unintentional from her viewpoint but it’s caused real harm to daniela that needs to be addressed and in which the statement was lacking

thanks everyone for sending me your thoughts. i'm making a master post with different perspectives under the cut, but at the end of the day, i think we can all agree that this situation calls for a lot more empathy than what we have seen so far...

this doesn't need to be a situation where you are defending mapi. bottom line is that touching occurred. we can argue whether she touched her leg or private areas, but it doesn't change the fact that there was no need for mapi to touch daniela at all. and second, it negates daniela's own lived experience too.

either way it's intentional and not needed. mapi should not have done it, and 100% agreed that a little empathy goes a long way.

yes, like i've said before, there is a way to defend yourself without losing all empathy.

we don't know these players. and even if we do, that doesn't mean that people we know cannot act in a bad manner. rivalry or not, you cannot stoop so low as to retaliate in such a manner. this is a serious matter and cannot be reduced to a derby. we sure need to take this seriously!

the truth is rarely black and white, but what is more black and white is that there is no need to engage in any type of touching that has nothing to do with the play itself.

i hope it doesn't affect it at all. it shouldn't but people have their agendas...

it wasn't the right tactic. i would have handled things very differently and think the club has a lot to answer for as well.

i'm going to have to disagree with you in the "expected" part of contact. sorry but we need to change the attitude that being grabbed and groped should not be expected. that's not a part of football and we should not accept that it is.

there's a lot to unpack in your response, anon. but i think i've addressed a lot of it in my previous responses. bottom line, multiple things can be true at once, but the touching shouldn't have occurred at all.

[drinksglue]

Chiming in because as of late this is something that's been really bothering me.

The big problem is that the people who claim to be the Enlightened Neutral Party in pro/anti discourse:

Have been acquainted with the discourse for no more than three collective minutes, so they have no idea what it's about or what kind of behavior has been surging in frequency in the last decade or so --- and because of that, they are unable to process the real-world ramifications of these talking points becoming popular (parallels to real-world hate groups who push for censorship, for example)

Have been fortunate enough to not be harassed over their ships (or watch someone they care about be harassed) to the extent that others have been, if at all

Assuming we're talking about people who are clueless and not people who are antis who don't want to be loud and proud about it, they have no actual experiences to go off of when it comes to this debate, so to them it's just "online discourse". They believe there are no real-world consequences, being either willfully or unintentionally ignorant of the fact that people do get doxxed and stalked in real life over petty fandom morality bullshit.

No halfway decent person is going to watch somebody beat the tar out of another person, and when the person getting beat finally punches back, try to "both sides" the situation and insist they're both in the wrong because "it's just a stupid fight. Just stop fighting, idiots!" Meanwhile, the person who is getting beaten up on very much agrees! They would LOVE for the fight to stop! But they did not start the fight, and the person who did has no intention of stopping. The victim is blamed for the aggressor's refusal to stop being an aggressor.

Pro-ship and pro-fiction folks also think fandom discourse is fucking stupid! We agree! But as long as antis keep causing issues instead of just blocking shit they don't like, the pro/anti discourse is going to continue.

And again, all of this is caused by the fact that neutrals are either antis who won't admit it, or people who have not seen the full scope of the problem. They try to speak on the subject, trying to sound enlightened and "above it all", despite not knowing anything about it. They do not see, or pretend to not see, people being doxxed over ships. They do not see, or pretend not to see, cases like IAmLunaSol where artists are stalked IN REAL LIFE over fictional characters. They do not see, or pretend not to see, the people who have attempted and/or successfully committed suicide as a result of witch-hunts led by antis ever since the early days of modern fancop activity in the Steven Universe fandom.

TL;DR if you're "neutral", you're either an anti and trying to hide it, or you have no idea what you're talking about and should either take the time to talk to us to learn what's been going on, or you should keep your pseudo-philosophical faux-enlightenment to yourself.

Still really hating those posts that are like "not anti or proship but a secret third thing; an adult with a job" Like??? I'm sorry I had to be the one to tell you this, but most adults with jobs still care about people getting harassed until they kill themselves. 😭😭

[tentacle-therapissed]

Amber Heard, Megan thee Stallion, Blake Lively… I just feel so frustrated with the effectiveness of smear campaigns against these women who, if you can rub two brain cells together, are clearly victims of male violence. It’s really disheartening to know a lot of women fall for it and tend to be the worst perpetrators of harassment against other women. I don’t know if they’re stupid or not but I feel like we need to stop giving anyone grace with misogyny anymore.

I saw a TikTok (unfortunately, I need to get off that app) theorizing that the reason so many women are the worst perpetrators of harassment in these smear campaigns is because they’re subconsciously afraid of the implications when a rich, privileged, beloved, successful woman goes through something like this. You either have to accept that misogyny is so prevalent in our current society that not only are these women unable to shield themselves from abuse, but the entire world is willing to turn on them and ridicule them in a heartbeat… or you have to believe that the woman must actually be lying, that she provoked the man, that she’s problematic, that she misbehaved, and therefore she actually deserves this treatment. That if YOU were in that situation you wouldn’t be subject to the same treatment. I see a lot of rhetoric with these cases along the lines of ‘what do I care about the struggles of a rich, privileged celebrity?’ Blake Lively was a beautiful, successful, beloved A-lister with money, resources, and high-profile connections and none of that mattered in the end. If it can happen to her, it can happen to every single one of us.

A lot of these women, on the other hand, have gone through abuse themselves and are willing to throw other victims under the bus to try and gain approval for their own story. ‘This person behaved imperfectly but I didn’t, therefore you should believe me and not her.’ They don’t realize no woman is perfect enough to be a believable victim in our society. But they get temporary validation from people who will use them in their arguments to go ‘see? this is what a REAL victim looks like. [insert celebrity here] is harming REAL victims by lying about being abused.’

I think another huge aspect of it though, at least when it comes to how easily women fall for Johnny Depp’s patented DARVO method, is the insidious way in which progressive values are twisted to make misogyny sound woke. ‘Feminism is about treating men and women EQUALLY’ ‘feminism means treating women like people, and people are flawed’ ‘feminism benefits men too! we care about men’s issues! men’s mental health! male abuse victims!’ These things all sound nice in theory but oppressed classes are NOT equal to their oppressors and that’s exactly why their voices need to be amplified more. These types of issues ARE gendered because it’s statistically more likely for a man to be mistreating a woman than vice versa. It’s safe and easy to call yourself a feminist while still catering to your oppressors, and it feels right because that’s what we’ve been taught to do. But it isn’t going to get us anywhere.

[hushedstars]

The way Cheum didn't berate Atom for making up THAT KIND OF lies about Boston? Aha. Okay.

[rmbunnie]

Something kinda tasteless about the way that alongside the concerns of "Batman needs someone to rein in his aggression/edginess" (mostly a meta concern,) "Robin is a symbol of undying hope right alongside Batman, Superman, and the police system," and "now that the thought's crossed my mind I think being Robin would be pretty sweet actually," one of Tim's points for why he should be Robin at the end of A Lonely Place of Dying is "we need to show the criminals of Gotham that they can't just kill Robin and expect to get away with it!" Because. They can. That's exactly what happened.

Using that line of reasoning, Tim makes the claim that the idea of Jaybin's life as disposable and inconsequential is heinous and bad, his killing something impermissible, but instead of disproving said idea they allow it to become true and devote their energy to making sure it doesn't become widely known as such. By covering his death up, they actually are permitting his murder to go unaddressed and deeming it acceptable, even taking away the opportunity for it to be consequential to anyone outside of Bruce's inner circle by not spreading the news. As much as we say "oh Bruce was a great dad because losing Jason crushed him" and "he almost considered trying to kill the Joker one time," he in all tangible areas did not do anything about Jason's death. Setting aside the question of killing the Joker or not, it's still shown in Batman Year 3 that Bruce's reaction to Jason's death in the time til Tim showed up was to hide away everything Jason owned and carry on with business as usual, a little angrier. Bruce didn't make any changes or actually evaluate anything in a significant way after the warehouse and Jason's death didn't warrant any tangible consequence, that's evident from reading the comic. I know some may disagree, and I acknowledge the room for interpretation, but in order to discuss Tim's reason we have to concede that it is explicitly written into this specific comic as something Bruce and Tim both recognize as fact, because it serves as the foundation that this reason is built on: there is good reason for the criminals to believe there would no punishment for killing Robin based on the actions Bruce did or didn't take in response. The concern about the public realizing there are no consequences for killing Robin wouldn't be reasonable if it wasn't true, if there actually were.

While they recognize that Jason's death came to pass largely without consequence, the fact itself is less of an issue to both Bruce and Tim than letting criminals actually find out that it doesn't have consequence. They know it's unjust, the notion that Jason can be killed without repercussion (and in making an effort to minimize his murder confirm it to be true,) but their concern isn't for what actually happened to Jason or the lack of proper response. At least on the vigilante side of things, the problem is public perception and continuing to uphold an image of Batman as just and diligent while permitting him to ignore injustice against those close to him. There's no efforts taken to actually disprove the idea that killing Robin would lack impact, what Tim proposes is just making it harder to prove right.

I think the best way to word what comes across tasteless for me here (aside from the side commentary on the unstoppable might of the institution of police and how it's an exemplar of heroism) is that beyond Tim's victim-blaming of Jason during his stint as Robin, (discussed in more depth by people who can word it better than me,) in the base text of a Lonely Place of Dying, it is foundational to the initial premise of Tim as Robin that part of his motive for being Robin hinges on accepting what happened to Jason as something that cannot be allowed in their pursuit of justice or go unaddressed for reasons completely unrelated to the actual harm, and then intentionally erasing the event and the way in which it was allowed and did go unaddressed. No matter how much it's claimed in later comics that Bruce was faultless and Jason doomed himself, Tim's Robin came to be at least in part (in-universe) as a cover-up for the lack of action taken about Jason's death, and by extension as an effort to overwrite his time as Robin and an individual entirely. And thought it wasn't the way his character viewed it, Tim wasn't passively complicit in it or going along with a poor grieving man, the intentional and deliberate erasure of Jason as a murder victim and the injustice of his posthumous treatment was part of his opening pitch.

[ocpder]

Non-traumagenics stop acting oppressed for being a system/disabled when you are not disabled because you're not a system challenge

[butch-bakugo]

Why are vetted accounts sending people stuff like this.

I mean it's clearly copy-pasted and sent to multiple people but this isn't even a donations ask. Imma guess the reason people aren't responding is because you're accusing them of not doing enough for Palestine and sending it to multiple people who you clearly don't check because I've been posting about and for Palestine since oct 7th when I learned about it.

Also yes he is looking for donations, you can check his account and find it. Why are you sending this guilt trippy stuff to people and accusing them of not caring enough? You don't know me? You send these to multiple people so your clearly not checking the account in question. This dose nothing to help you personally or the Palestinian cause, it just pisses people off and makes them question vetters.

[rxttenfish]

the "people in horror movies make stupid decisions in moments of high stress because of Bad Writing" thing has gotten so bad that its started to infect how people talk about actual real life atrocities. "oh, these people were just stupid and deserved to die, why didnt they do this" well first of all they had literally no way of obtaining insights through visions of the future, they were actively dying of months of poisoning and grievous injuries, and you cant even be nice to people doing inoffensive things if you wake up slightly earlier than normal, so perhaps we should reconsider your perspective on the situation.

[gibbearish]

every time i see discourse about fundraisers go by on here im just fully struck with the realization that not a single one of you people have either taken a cybersecurity fraud prevention course or bothered to take one singular second to consider the website youre on. this is the broke bitches website. none of us can afford to fund our mutuals' grocery bills, much less entire evacuation funds, and CERTAINLY not FAKE evacuation funds taking advantage of genocide victims. all this shit abt how people are deliberately choosing not to fund every post that passes their dash because they hate palestinians literally just does the work of actual scammers for them by laying the high-pressure sales tactics groundwork, and the "do you guys have any idea how hard it is to keep coming up with new attention-grabbing fundraiser posts?" ones just ring EXTREMELY hollow because YEAH! YEAH I DO! and so does everyone i follow! and everyone they follow! because all of us are FUCKING BROKE and surviving on crumbs! i just saw one that said "i make sure to keep $40 in my wallet at all times so i can give $20 to any panhandlers i see, this is the same" and its like!! good for you, thats very nice, but like!!! you need need NEED to take a step back and realize that /being able to do that/ is a position of privilege, not the default setting to be a good person. i wont discount that some people do ignore fundraisers specifically because of racism because Of Course, but like. a) yelling at them isnt gonna make them stop, or more accurately yelling at /everyone else/ isnt gonna make those people stop, and b) trying to apply that as a blanket motivation for everyone just. realistically doesnt work. not donating is a nonaction, it is the literal default status, and while in specific situations you can use CONSISTENT absence of SPECIFIC actions to track a person's motivations SOMETIMES, broadly speaking that just. doesnt work.

there are 8 billion people on this planet. most of them will never know you exist. of the ones that do, most will not be able to help you. of the ones that can, most will not be on the broke bitches website passing the same communal $20 around. consider your audience and stop shitting on fellow poor people for having the gall to need to be careful with their money. and if you are genuinely only posting your fundraiser to tumblr, like. im sorry, but you need to anticipate not reaching your goal and prepare accordingly. theres a reason the last big scam scandal people talk about actually getting the money is like. all-or-nothing era, as a website none of us have the funds to make that kind of thing happen anymore or the security to risk it. a fundraiser not meeting its goal on here is not a personal sleight against whoever made it, its just how life goes sometimes. and it's unfair and it sucks and we should help however we can, but. sometimes you just arent able to help someone else, and continuing to feel responsible serves only to torture yourself. and blaming OTHERS serves only to move that guilt from yourself off onto another person. i imagine that has to be where a lot of the vitriol comes from, is people who cant afford to donate more getting pissed at people they see as having the funds but choosing not to share them, but again, sometimes you just are not able to achieve the goals you set out towards, through no fault of the specific parties involved.

people on tumblr choosing to buy groceries rather than potentially donate to a scam are not your enemy and are not the ones facilitating a genocide. we're all victims of the same horrific system, the question is just how that system manifests its influence on each of us. poverty kills just as thoroughly as a bomb. everyone is just doing their best to survive, and as much as we like to pretend that everyone should be a perfect selfless angel that puts others before themselves no matter what, humans are by default a selfish species, and it is a lot easier to say what youd do in theory than actually do it. and there's a reason you have to put on your own oxygen mask before helping the person beside you, youre of no help to anyone if youre too dead to do anything.

[hikarielizabethbloom]

Reading and watching Miv and Charlie's interviews is so interesting because they've been saying over and over what I've been saying over and over about Gal/Sau relationship. Sometimes the same fucking words. Did they go through Tumblr posts, saw some of mine and thought 'I like this'? Or are we we simply on the same wavelength.

Either way, it's funny that some fans that are now cheering, got into a tantrum and called me a bad shipper for writing down the same thoughts.

[giantkillerjack]

The cool thing about a horror movie that takes place in a mental hospital and, shockingly, actually turns out to be on the side of mentally ill people is that it avoids all the common disgusting pitfalls of mocking, demonizing, and infantilizing mentally ill people.

The downside is

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

[It's much scarier.]

[narwhalandchill]

btw if u equate childe and aventurines backstory in any fucking way please leave this blog and unfollow me <3 preferably block me while ur at it too uwu

[m0nsterteeth]

Not only is my therapist hella supportive of my weird ass goal in therapy to learn shapeshifting (in whatever ways are feesable but especially in dreams) and is cool with all the negative thoughts being a monster comes with (daydreaming about hurting and eating people as a monster doesn’t make me a bad person), but they are roping in a literal shaman to help me out. That’s only part of the reason why, I’m also plagued with sleep hallucinations that are distressing (these are unaffected by my antipsychotics directly as it isn’t psychosis so I’m not gonna request med changes). That is probably the more pressing matter for them but I will be sure to tie it back to my desperate need to be a monster. I need to figure out how to satisfy this need for my mental wellbeing. I want it so bad I have literally offered my soul to entities I perceive as real and evil, hell I do it completely unprompted at times. The fact that I believe it is real and do potentially dangerous things is alarming to me when awake and have my wits about me. It’s essentially like I am drunk and wandering up to random people with a weird request. Some have gently told me they can’t do that, some are rude and tell me horrible things about me and why I don’t deserve to be happy.

Part of this is being billed to my insurance company, which is funny to me, do have to pay the shaman but my therapist is so cool they are not charging me for their time even though it is over the hour limit. They are helping me out because they care/worry about me and it is very nice to feel supported.