#this is also in the process of redemption chloe

[i-like-anything-water]

chlonette secret admirer au where pollen leaves her gifts to Marinette because

1.) she can't run fast enough so she'd get caught since for some reason Marinette is both clumsy but athletic af

2.) Pollen can go undetected by technology and people in general

3.) She's trying to be better so she won't abuse her powers as Queen Bee and Pollen offered so technically...

Pollen looks at her holder who's pacing in a circle along the carpeted floor. A bouquet of flowers they handpicked this morning lay on the table along with a box of cupcakes Chloe had made (she lent the materials and ingredients needed because she can't bake to save her life) with Alya's mother and a scented card with her message. It was the common apology gift that humans have had since she was brought to this world yet she finds it cute everytime.

"She's going to think someone broke into her house and left some random objects! Oh god, what if she thinks she has a stalker and feels scared instead?!" Pollen couldn't help but buzz in amusement. She was pretty sure her holder's subject of affections wasn't easily deterred by a stalker. Plus, it wasn't stalking! It was just... mysteriously dropping gifts to a person's room. Huh, she really needs to read more regarding this generation's rules on courtship.

"I don't think that will be the case, My Queen," she's sure Tikki would see her anyway. And she's sure Tikki wouldn't snitch on them, yet. "I can safely deposit the gifts without drawing suspicion or ill-will! However, if you feel as if we are taking a step too far forward, I can leave it in her doorstep instead." While she wanted to help her chosen very much regarding her feelings for the ladybug holder, she valued her comfort and decisions above it.

It will take time, and she's frankly not sure if the feelings would be reciprocated. Granted, the previous ladybug and bee holders did end up eventually and happily but she didn't want to bet her holder's love on simply luck. Still, it was worth taking a risk and she's always excited whenever it's a ladybug holder that's gotten her holder's attention.

"I don't know..." Chloe still looked unsure, her eyes darting to the gifts on the table and back to the floating Kwami. "I'm Chloe Bourgeois and I'm panicking, which is ridiculous, utterly ridiculous!"

Pollen simply looked at her.

Chloe sighed, her shoulders sagging, "but I'm also Chloe Bourgeois and Queen Bee. I'm changing and... Marinette is a good person. If she ever finds out, I at least know she won't make fun of me for it. But god I'd rather wear the same outfit twice than have her find out!"

Pollen smiled as she flew close to the blabbering blonde and laid a paw on her cheek, "We shall find out together, My Queen."

That seemed to ease the hero's nerves, her nervous expression replaced with a confident grin and determination. "Thanks, Pollen. We should get going now. I wouldn't want to miss seeing her!"

"Thank you, Pollen," she smiled warmly at the Kwami, the sun shining through her blonde locks and calm blue eyes. The crown sat snuggly on her head, the gem gleaming like the ocean on a sunny morning. Pollen smiled back, floating to rest atop the blonde's shoulder. "We should get going now. I wouldn't want to miss seeing her!"

Ah, fate. Bees did find ways to see Ladybugs. Pollen wonders how this would turn out this time.

"Pollen, Buzz On!"

The familiar burst of energy flew through the Kwami and she couldn't help the little jump before she was sucked in the comb.

[melishade]

I've seen both, and as much as I have problems with Steven Universe's handling of the Diamonds, and least the writing for that show is consistent.

speaking as a fan of both, why do steven universe fans talk about it like it’s miraculous ladybug. steven universe was actually good

[adrinoir]

The Miraculous Movie was different than the series…and that’s okay!

I watched the movie this morning and loved it! I think it’s important to talk about the changes that were made and what impact they had.

How the characters were rewritten

There definitely was a difference in how the characters were written in the movie, and some of the redevelopment of characters was really good!

Gabriel was by far the one who had the best redevelopment of his personality. Gabriel in the series is awful, as we all know.

In the series, he barely gives a shit about his own son, like there is absolutely nothing redeemable about his character. In every “what if” episode and the season 5 finale, Gabriel does not show any regret to hurting people, including his own son.

However, in the movie, Gabriel actually makes a better attempt to communicate with Adrien and, most importantly, feels strong regret when he hurt his son. He cries; he feels remorse for destroying Paris and injuring Adrien in the process. He hugs Adrien (along with the spirit of Emilie 🥹) and decides to stop being Hawk Moth. It was beautifully done. He got a redemption arc that he never got in the series. I know I personally felt so good watching that and seeing the relationship between him and Adrien being repaired.

Marinette was her usual clumsy self, but was written as having no friends at school because she embarrasses herself so much. In a way, it makes more sense than her being so popular like she is in the series. Kids in high school can be pretty judgy and ruthless. So it makes sense for the “clumsy girl” to be made fun of and judged by people who don’t know her well.

Adrien was different in a lot of ways. He wasn’t shown running to school to gain freedom. He wasn’t introduced as being a super model who’s friends with Chloe. Instead, he’s already going to the school, he’s already friends with Nino, and he happens to run into Marinette at the library. He doesn’t have that same chemistry with Marinette as he does in the series which is a bit odd that they took that away, but it does make sense that he’d turn her down when she asked him to the ball, since he loves Ladybug. In the movie, he very clearly sees Marinette as just a friend and it’s shown that he’s building a friendship with her without him developing a crush. It’s different but still wholesome, especially when he shows her the old family photo to her. Plus, it evens it out well since Ladybug obviously turns Cat Noir away but they’re still building up their bond, too. They both get turned down.

It was ehhh that Adrien was a bit too cocky at times as Cat Noir, but overall, his goofiness and self confidence is still pretty on brand for him. He was still very encouraging towards Ladybug but not overly flirtatious, pushing her to her limits. Instead, it was them lightly teasing each other and then playfully fighting. And, speaking of the playful fighting, their bond was stronger in the movie seeing as how they were shown spending more time together off duty and that they were treated as equals.

In the show, Cat Noir is automatically made sidekick and left in the dark about everything. But in the movie, he gets to meet Master Fu in disguise alongside Ladybug. Sure, he didn’t help Master Fu with his cane like he did in the series, but that didn’t matter since the lore was changed.

Alya was less annoying in the movie. Sorry. Don’t get me wrong, I love Alya in the series, but she’s so over the top at times with how obsessed she is over the heroes, blogging, and filming things for her blog. In the movie, she was toned down a lot and I liked that. It was also cute that Nino had a crush on her and just her, not Marinette first. Unlike the series, he wasn’t on that pipeline of guys who fell for Marinette since that pipeline doesn’t exist in the movie.

Tom was made out to be an embarrassment for Marinette which is honestly more realistic for a teenager. Most teenagers get pretty embarrassed by their parents, especially when they still treat them very childlike. And, I like that he went out to the fair to look for her since he heard there was danger. Marinette’s parents don’t usually go out to look for her or make sure she’s in her room when there’s danger afoot. So, I appreciate that they made Tom do that since he obviously loves Marinette a lot.

The rewriting of (some of) the lore

As I had mentioned in my previous section, the lore was rewritten, too. Instead of Master Fu being the one to pick Marinette and Adrien simply because they helped him, the kwamis sense that Marinette and Adrien are the right people to be Ladybug and Cat Noir. That was a much better way to write that, in my opinion.

Hawk Moth got ahold of the butterfly miraculous by mistake. That part wasn’t changed but also, it didn’t need to be.

The change of plot

The plot was very simple. It didn’t have a whole lot of crazy, in depth details like the show’s does. So, anyone who has never watched the show can easily understand and absorb what’s going on (I will be forcing my boyfriend to watch it with me since he’s never seen the show lol).

I like that it was very clear cut and easy to understand while still being intense and meaningful. It still summarizes a lot of what the series entails while fixing some issues in the plot development.

They didn’t doddle with Hawk Moth like they do in the show. He was a successful villain in his second attempt but then realized he should stop when he hurt his own son in the process.

Also, there was a reveal. It was a wee bit underwhelming, but I still think it was done well! It was a moment with just Marinette and Adrien alone, as it should be. And, it was cutesy and heartfelt. The fact that Marinette dressed like Ladybug for the ball (cutest dress ever imo) and Adrien dressed like Cat Noir was so cute. That’s what a lot of the fandom has been asking for and written about in fanfics, I feel like.

The romance between these two is most important. They didn’t need Kagami and Luka as 2nd love interests to throw things off track. Yes, I like these characters in the show, but they weren’t needed in the plot.

The music

I love musicals. I was a bit of a theater kid in high school, plus I’m obsessed with music lol. So, yes, I’m a bit biased when I say I love that they made this a musical.

I personally loved the music. I can tell a lot of good effort was put into it and I’ve already been listening to the songs on my Spotify. The song between Ladybug and Cat Noir in the theater “Now I See” and Cat Noir jumping on the clouds (literally, on cloud nine) singing “My Lady” was absolutely adorable and super romantic, which, as we know, is a big part of the show.

Even Gabriel’s song “Chaos Will Reign Today” was amazing! It conveyed a lot of emotion and turns into one of those dramatic villain songs. Keith Silverstein is clearly talented enough to sing for his own character and he did it well.

My only nitpick is that Marinette’s singer, Lou, has a very different voice than Christina Vee. So, Marinette sounds very different, much more mature-sounding when she sings and it kinda catches you off guard. I’m surprised they didn’t have Christina sing for her, but there must’ve been a reason why she didn’t. But, SQVARE sounded similar enough to Bryce Papenbrook when he sung for Cat Noir which i absolutely love.

Conclusion

I personally give this movie a 10/10 just because it made me smile the whole time, and it’s such a feel good movie. I’ll happily watch it again and listen to the soundtrack, especially on a day when I’m feeling down. It wasn’t perfect in every aspect, but it was perfect in a simple, heartwarming sense and that it can be watched by everyone, not only people who watch the series.

I understand if it made you cringe or you were moreso looking for a continuation of the series not a retelling. But, I prefer some simplicity which is a big part of what made me like it. Like I said, I know it wasn’t absolute perfection, but it was so frickin adorable and I can’t help but smile.

There’s a lot of differences but also plenty of similarities between the movie and the show. But understand they’re not meant to be the same and that’s okay! I don’t think the movie was horrible for most of the changes it made. In fact, I think most of them made sense and made it a bit more realistic (as I explained).

[starryeyedstray]

my thoughts on dbh as someone entering the fandom in 2024

so just got into the dbh fandom like in aug 2024. i have watched too much gameplay, read the wiki extensively, read an obscene amount of fanfics on ao3, and am in the process of writing my own. here are some of my thoughts (that no one has asked for):

every fanfic writer who started in 2018 and is still updating their works in 2024 are literal saints and some of the best damn writers i ever did saw and the dedication is fucking unreal. one fic had almost 2 million words??????? like BRUH. some are still ongoing and updated this year?? the dbh fandom in ao3 is not thriving as much as it was in 2018 (i say this purely as someone who's looking at the hits/kudos/comment ratios on older v. new works) but they are still alive!!!!

i am puzzled with the obsession with gavin reed. there are like a million fics that feature him and rk900. i am confused bc he did not seem like a redeeming character at all in my opinion and idk, i think he's just an asshole. i like the redemption arcs some ppl write for him but i just can't with him. i mean you ship who you wanna ship but i am not a reed fan and i am confused how he became so popular when all he did was bully our poor boi connor.

i personally don't ship hank x connor bc they give strong father-son vibes in the canon. however, i am obsessed with how jolli_bean writes the pairing on ao3 since its usually a canon divergence or an AU so the pair meet later in life. there are some fics that follow the canon and do a pretty good job with the pairing, but i just tend to keep it familial between them in my head. (but like i said, ship who you want to ship)

i am glad there's a vague consensus that we all wished alice stayed a human bc i feel like that lends itself to a more interesting narrative post-game. tho i guess her being an android is fine bc now kara, luthor, and alice can live as one happy family in canada forvever lol

i am literally obsessed with bryan dechart's acting as connor. like if you haven't seen him play connor in real life for the interactive #detroit2038 premiere event, then you gotta watch some of the live stream. like he doesn't break character the whole time and his physicality just screams connor and i just really appreciate how much effort he put in as an actor to really embody the character. just so impressive and i wish there was more bts of him acting as connor bc its just so nuanced and ugh *chef's kiss* if they ever made a live action dbh it would be impossible for anyone else to play connor

i love the 28 stab wounds meme. when i watched that scene for the first time it was so jarring lmao

i also love how everyone is like yes, we all know connor likes dogs but he also likes fish bc of that one fish you can save in the very first minute of gameplay hahahah. (his name is dewey and it is vitally important you save him). i also appreciate how the "i like dogs" line will undoubtedly find it's way into every fic possible lol

i think the love for simon is very good and well and amazing but i think josh deserves more love in fics too

it bothers me that when north tells markus "i love you" at the church, MARKUS DOESN'T SAY IT BACK??? LIKE BITCH SAY YOU LOVE HER BACK DAMMIT DON'T JUST WALK AWAY

i love how the fandom just latched onto rk900 and rk800-60 and fleshed out their personalities and i love reading ppl's interpretation of these characters and how they incorporate them into their stories. it's funny they only show up like one time and ppl just ran with it and it's so fun and creative and i love it.

i love the hc that chloe deviated when connor chose not to shoot her. that's the best hc. like it's canon in my heart idc

bless all the fic writers who have mastered the art of explaining how androids mind and bodies work bc there are so many gaps and possibilities left open in the lore and it's incredible to see what ppl come up with or interpret based off the canon. (i still feel 50/50 about when they make deviants feel pain cause like androids not feeling pain is such a big part of the canon and yeah i'll give it a pass if the fic does it for the whumps and the angst but i prefer when a fic finds a canon-compliant reason for deviants to feel pain, even if its just like they got a chip or software installed that makes them feel pain or something)

every pairing that i find in this fandom, i tend to be like... "yeah i can see that." (with the exception of hank x connor for reasons i stated in #3). i'm still like ehhh on reed900 or even gavin x connor bc i just don't think it makes sense in the canon but if it's written well i just shrug and say yeah i guess i could see that. some rarepairs i ended up absolutely adoring were chloe x north and rk900 x north (i realize they're both north but she has such good potential for character dynamics)

idk if it's just me bc i specifically look for fics centered around connor, but i feel like there's not a lot of love for kara at least fic-wise. ig it's cause she kinda just leaves so it's easy to not include her. tbh, i am quite well-versed in markus' and connor's stories but i haven't really explored a lot of kara's. i plan on playing dbh with my partner when i see them again in a couple months and i wanted us to take turn playing different characters and i wanted to play kara's storyline so i've been avoiding it for the most part so i can be surprised with my options. plus, in my wip fic, kara is in canada so she's not really relevant to my story which is why i have in depth knowledge about markus and connor and less on kara.

the music in this game fucking SLAPS. 10/10 kara's theme makes me wanna cry.

okay, there is a common trope in the dbh fanfics where connor loses his memory and that shit gets me everytime. i'm always bawling and anxiously waiting for him to fucking REMEMBER and i hate and love it and eat it up every. single. time. usually, the memory loss happens early in the fic and it's pretty expected but sometimes i get blindsided and i'm like FUCK not this shit again but i can't stop reading it and the angst is so palpable.

i think it's so interesting how ra9 is just like this mystery in the lore that never gets entirely explained in the game. it's like something you can totally kinda ignore but it does have interesting lore implications if you decide to really think about it.

i adore all the characters in dbh equally except for connor who is the certified best boi and my absolute favorite (no one is shocked by this declaration). and the characters on my shit list are zlatko, todd, and sometimes reed.

this is an obnoxiously long post and i apologies. i haven't been on tumblr in years and i just had so many thoughts about dbh and i have no friends to talk to so i decided to dump it all here. i still have more thoughts but those are the ones that come to the forefront of my mind.

tldr: i love dbh and its fandom and i have many specific thoughts about it and you should just really read my post if you care about any of it

[matt0044]

The Miraculous Fandom really seems to lack imagination.

I found a video essay calling Lila aimless as a villain but like… maybe they’re going to reveal what her game in Season 6 will be.

Maybe she wants the world kissing her foot?

Maybe she wants to stop living lies and have the perfect life.

Maybe she wants all her lies to be true and have an extraordinary life?

Dunno but it’s fun to speculate.

And I refer to CinemaSins because a common facet of their “critiques” are just questioning things that either are on a need to know basis exposition wise orrrrrr didn’t need much explanation aside from, say, magic exists.

There’s also an unwillingness to look at something for what it is and analyze it appropriately but rather lambast it for something it isn’t.

So many are hung up on being blue balled by a Chloe’s would’ve been redemption arc yet and deeper look into her doubling down on being nasty as well as how she’s an example of some people choosing not to be helped or sabotaging her efforts to turn herself around.

How she demonstrates the banality of evil and, while not super riveting, is a story that feeds into the themes of the masks we wear and what persona we put on.

Adrien wasn’t there to see Gabriel off but how might that serve the story in Season 6 since Lila knows how his father truly died yet so many act like the show’s over. Frankly, they were very economical with this story and made a good call to not overload the Season 5 finale's storyline with something so loaded like Adrien learning true origins.

Imagine how Season 6 and 7 may contend with this, especially when Lila likely knows. She couldn't have asked for a better weapon against Ladybug. And Marinette will have the truth weighing on her mind in lying not just to Chat Noir but also Adrien.

So many claim that the story and plot never process but Season 4 and five have virtually no filler with at least ONE episode having something going on that affects the wider tapestry of the slowburn story.

For god’s sake, guys, can we balance what we what with what the show chooses for itself? People are still uppity about Migration despite Luka coming back under Su-Han’s tutalege. Him knowing how to ward off Akumas sure will come in handy.

[eddo-tensei]

The Power of Love according to Season 5 of Miraculous

Something disturbing dawned on me concerning...a lot of the development in Season 5 and it comes down to one thing: Love.

At first, Andre and Felix getting redeemed while Chloe gets sent off to the worst fate the show would allow didn't make a lot of sense. The only thing I could get from the writers was just that "Chloe bad, so everyone else good." It was stupid, but it wasn't insidious. At least, not that insidious at first. And then the finale with Gabriel happened and while it took me a while to process my frustrations with this, something finally clicked. Not only concerning that, but some of the other developments I've seen.

Felix getting another chance to the point of JOINING the heroes in the new universe seemed like nonsense until you look at what happened before that. He was someone who Astruc went out of his way to bury in the narrative and was exclusively causing trouble for everyone up to and including GENOCIDE...until he showed his love to Kagami. Suddenly, his actions are seen as righteous and his backstory of being abused by his father was justification for his actions. You see, he loved Kagami and he also apparently loved Adrien too because they were "the same."

Andre was basically just some corrupt politician who was also a pathetic snob. Then when Zoe came in, we suddenly get all of these humanizing bits about how Chloe totally mistreated him (because apparently, not having the guts to say no to your daughter is mistreatment) and when he divorced Audrey, he gets Zoe because he's someone he could be happy with. A true familial love unlike the one he had with Chloe.

Chloe, meanwhile, doesn't love anyone as far as the writers are concerned. Any genuine connection she might have in either the platonic, familial, or the romantic sense, whether it'd be to Adrien, Sabrina, Zoe or Ladybug, are shown to be either fake or so utterly shallow, it doesn't count as "love." With that, everything she does is absolutely reprehensible and doesn't deserve a shred of forgiveness even if it's clear she's a neglected child who needed help. BUT, because she "doesn't love anyone", she doesn't get redemption and deserves to be sent away with a parent who doesn't love her either. Same with Lila, she doesn't love anyone at all and in fact, just jumps from family to family purely to keep up her manipulations.

Finally, we have Gabriel, who had done nothing but sheltered, belittled, and outright ABUSED Adrien as well as commit a multitude of horrid crimes throughout the series. His actions constantly escalated in awfulness throughout the series, even showing that he doesn't care if he destroys the universe to get what he wants. Yet there was always this trait he possessed. His love for Emilie and that ended up coming to the forefront in the finale. Marinette, who had Gabriel dead to rights, decided at the last moment to try and appeal to his humanity because she knows he loved Emilie and in her mind, that love is enough grounds for her to offer him one chance to step up and help. Then when Gabriel opts to betray Marinette and starts the wish, he tells her at the last moment to try and help Adrien remember all of the times he "tried to be a good father," which is apparently an indicator that he actually LOVED Adrien too. THAT ended up being why Marinette decided to lie about Gabriel by saying he died fighting Monarch and went as far as to try and tell Adrien to remember him as a good man. All because she knew Gabriel "loved" him.

This tells me something distressing. Now, the concept of "Love Redeems" is something I'm not at all against and is in fact common in a lot of stories I like. However, it's what Miraculous does with this concept in Season 5 that angers me. The message of Miraculous ends up giving in its grand finale for the Agreste arc isn't that love can help people find the way to kindness. It's that anything you do can be justified as long as you do it for "love." It doesn't matter if you purposely get a cab driver in trouble, attempt to sabotage a date that your crush is in, put together a project that tries to commercialize air, betray someone to help a terrorist, commit genocide, cause untold amounts of damage to your town and beyond, or even destroy the universe! As long as you love someone, everything you do can be justified. Except when we decide that you don't love ANYONE, then we'll do everything in our power to show that all of your connections don't count as love so you can have the worst punishment we could possibly muster. Regardless of intent, that's how the writers ended up describing the Power of Love in Season Five of Miraculous and that's wretched to me.

[gryficowa]

Something pisses me off that people in the fandom reduce all the criticism of the episode with Marinette's trauma to the fact that people in the fandom are stupid or love Chloe too much and hate Marinette

No, people don't like this episode because it has no respect for the viewer and it has many problems that are revealed later in the same season, on top of that, I question whether Adrien's trauma was addressed at all in a respectful way, or whether they justified everything by that he is a senti monster? Exactly

By the way, defenders of this episode, I hope you were going after Felix like you were going after Chloe? Oh no, wait, he was a victim of domestic violence and he was rich, so like Chloe, but he was a boy, so his trauma is more important

But coming back, this episode with Marinette's trauma is problematic on many levels, mainly because it fucks with the logic even more than in the first season when in the episode "Origins" when they rescued Chloe, and then in "Lady Wi-Fi", the chat noir suspects that Chloe it's a ladybug and don't ask about logic, because there is none

Not only does Kim and Chloe make so much sense that Chat Noir from the episode "Lady Wi-Fi" could give a high five on this topic, but calling it "Feature Sharpening" is an understatement, it's more like Thomas had too much to drink before writing the entire script for the episode, and like a typical kid, he created the episode like one of the "Scooby-Doo" movies, where Scrappy-Doo was an out-of-character character in order to be antagonized (Because the fandom didn't like him, so it's better to kill off the whole character this way)

What's the best way to end the story of a father who abuses his child? Give him a statue, the fandom will 100% love it

Seriously, Thomas, we all know you didn't write this episode for traumatized people, but just to go the way people did to kill Scrappy-Doo, which was to kill Chloe herself so that the fandom would hate her and Kim in the process suffered, because why not?

And by the way, to explain your imaginary daughter with your ex…

The standards of this series also contributed to the reception of this episode, and I would also like to remind you that Zag wanted redemption for Chloe, but Thomas himself did not want it, so when Zag left to create the film, Thomas went to destroy the whole Chloe, because like a child he cannot reconcile with this, that a fictional character can have any development and tried his hardest to kill Chloe like a Scappy-Doo movie, seriously Thomas, I understand a lot, but as a creator you should use it to your advantage and not kill her off because you hate your character so much (Like a child what creates illustrations of cartoon characters dying because he hates them)

Seriously, this show has 00's to 2010 vibes, but today? Such productions are more annoying than entertaining (And I say this as a 01-year-old)

This writing by Chloe and Kim seriously has Scrappy-Doo movie vibes to me

So the episode with Marinette's trauma is even more irritating, because anyone sensitive will notice what Thomas did here and it is a seriously conscious murder of his characters.

The context of this episode makes you feel offended rather than understood by the creator, because it's not about empathy towards people with trauma like Marinette, but about killing off the characters of Chloe and Kim

No matter how much I love the trope of the main character who, over time, turns out to have a trauma that the viewer doesn't know about, this show fucked it up and resulted in a not-so-good taste

It's just the context of this episode that causes it, I'm seriously sensitive to this way of writing and it has irritated me since I was a child, I was hoping that the newer the cartoons, the more it would disappear, but then Thomas appeared and did my hated trope, but turned it up to the max

Sometimes I wonder why many great creators get as few seasons as possible, while Thomas gets more

Because no matter how much I liked this show, after Chloe's arc fell apart and the writing fell apart because killing Chloe is more important than everything else in this show, it made me fed up

And because of creators like Thomas, many people consider animations as worthless and only entertainment for small children, because Thomas' writing style is effortless (And even productions for preschoolers can handle it, yes, I'm talking about "Bluey"), just as little as possible, and the fact that the fandom swallows everything has a simple task in this topic

Thomas had a good idea, but Miracolous's greatest enemy was Thomas himself

Damn, it's hard for me to come back to the series, but "Ladybug PV" is awesome, so Thomas himself has gone backwards in the development of his work, literally.

Ok, Felix was still problematic (It was chat noir back then, for those who don't know the history of the miracolous creation process)

But if Thomas could develop the character… Oh no, wait, he can't, that's why Felix became Adrien

By the way, Mr. Pigeon and the mime from the first season appeared in this version, just an interesting fact

I also have the impression that the characters had a better design than in the current series

There was another 3D version, which also looked amazing, so the version we got is the worst and this thought kills me, because this series could have been something more, but Thomas himself killed it, i.e. the creator killed his creation before showing it in its entirety to the world (Congratulations, Thomas)

Yes, I had to let go of all my frustration with the show and the fandom, because it's fucked up that when you criticize the bad writing of Marinette's trauma, people come up with their theories on why you do it, not why you do it and why you don't like it

[rad-rat-with-a-tophat]

i agree with all of your points. but there are two places we differ. first off, i am so forgiving to everyone for mostly everything. and two, you sympathize a lot more with rich than chloe. and i fully understand why. but the thing about chloe is that i don't really think she's that much of a master manipulator. and realistically, if i was friends with brooke i would tell her to ditch chloe because she sucks as a person. but i am also the kind of person who is slightly obsessed with knowing exactly why a person did something before judging them for it, especialy in fiction. because in fiction, you have an outsider's perspective which leads you to be more forgiving to a certain character. but honestly you bring up a great amount of points that make a lot more sense than any defense of pinkberry. but i am all about redemption arcs and a horrible person redeeming themselves to someone they love and have hurt.

The pinkberry fic I want to read more than anything is 'the end'. I don't know, the more I think about Chloe the more toxic she seems. I analyze the way she behaved in canon and apply it to other aspects of her relationships and honestly, she's probably ruined Brooke's self-esteem beyond simple high school girl fights. Brooke probably bases her own value off of Chloe's opinion of her, and irreversibly so (to some extent), and I bet Chloe knows it, because she did it on purpose. I want a fic where Brooke begs in tears for Chloe to stay because she doesn't know anything but Chloe, because she's endlessly loving and forgiving and, as Chloe spent years constructing and perfecting, she's all Brooke has. And Chloe, finally, after everything, realizes the best thing she can do is leave. That the only way Brooke can ever learn to love herself is if she gets as far away as possible. As a Chloe Valentine hater, that is the only way I will ever see Chloe as truly redeemed.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Slight musing on rude not mean AU, but I wondered how the re-framed dynamic would influence Chloe's character.

Overall, she's meant to start out much the same, but I think the big notable thing would be in the instances where either Adrien discusses her behavior & she can chime in or, she is expected o apologize.

Rose's Letter:

Adrien's issue is less that she destroyed it, Nathalie & Gabriel destroy gifts from fans all the time & both he & Chloe watch Audrey destroy Chloe's gifts in real time. His contention is that it was not diplomatic and that clearly Rose's letter had merit given Ali liked it.

Which does actually hit a nail on the head for Chloe, and she apologizes to Rose without prompting but in a very... Chloe way.

IE, "Clearly there was factors I didn't consider when judging your letter, and I erred by destroying it, sorry Rose."

Which Adrien thinks is cool & normal, & while Rose accepts, she & anyone who heard it is like, "So wait she was apologizing for not realizing Ali would like it, not for hurting Rose, the hell?"

Juleka & the stall:

As noted, this one would actually get to Adrien as its physical and if there'd been a fire or the like Juleka could have been seriously hurt. But also because it genuinely wasn't a contest, it was a class photo, and Chloe removed a member of the class.

Seeing she's upset Adrien & rationalizing the actions from her own perspective, but then looking at the class context...

Yeah she'd apologize in the sense of, "I shouldn't have removed you from a group photo, that undercuts the whole point of the photo, and its clear now you weren't competing to be near Adrien, so I shouldn't have treated you as a threat."

Juleka: ... Thanks?

Basically, much like how Chloe can turn on customer service smile at the hotel, she does know that there's some lines you don't cross. The big issue is, at least early on, that she kind of doesn't know & doesn't bother to find out where other people's lines are, let alone realize they aren't even using the same rule book as her. Cos again, cruelty is normalized.

This would ideally just be her starting out on the whole redemption process & more pointedly serve to drive home just how warped she & Adrien's perspective is to everyone else.

In this regard, Adrien might have his first real like, gut instinct empathy with the Kim confession. In the sense of, "Ooh if I confessed to Ladybug, got splashed & covered in a chip bag, then she laughed & posted it on social media... That would really hurt."

But like, its just a casual prank bro, the TV everyone in class watches has stuff like this all the time.

So why does he feel bad?

GOD

Honestly I doubt the Kim thing would even register either like. Remember when Audrey rejected Chloé's gift on live tv because the wrapping paper was tacky?

[rachelsshowerthoughts]

Was musing on the Aware AU and how the trio internalize and process the abuse and otherwise contextualize or understand and communicate it or otherwise maybe fail to do so.

Because realizing a parent is unfair or doesn't care or is cruel is one thing. It can often be another to straight up be aware of and say you are an abuse victim.

Be it because they are young and thus even with the spread of therapy speak, being able to use it effectively on themselves is hard.

Or because abuse victims don't often look like they do, IE, aren't usually mega rich heirs to powerful names. Even if being a rich child can be rather akin to being an exotic talking pet given none of that money is theirs.

Sad money also makes getting empathy hard and feeling there is a way out even harder. They may not want the former or at least not desire it consciously. But its also a case of, "If we were even believed what could anyone do?"

But then there's also the more personal takes on things, such as how:

Adrien may not blame himself for his fathers inability to love him (Or at least love him in a not terrible way) but he sure as hell blames himself for "Fooling himself" for so long. He's known Gabriel his whole life, he is his son, if anyone should have figured out what he was like it was Adrien. But he didn't so he can't blame anyone else for not seeing it.

Then there's stuff like media where cold and controlling parents get redemption arcs by being soft once or the like. Adrien's just throwing popcorn at the screen, "He's lying to you, its a trick, he'll never change!"

Kagami genuinely loves fencing, she loves how skilled she is, she loves that she is a world renowned fencer. This makes it hard to deal with when abuse is woven into training, such as with overly violent spars, or with training sessions that see her hit the ground and then be forced up again and again.

She's used to her body hurting after training, the issue isn't the punishment, its how arbitrary and unfairly her mother applies them Compounded with the social isolation, control and emotional repression which she has a hard time naming. Meanwhile you have Marinette just wanting to scream because Tomoe is intentionally harming her daughter as punishment.

She'd likely need an outsider to highlight the punishment spars themselves are a bad idea that hinder rather than help her. That the pain itself was wrong, not just when or why it was applied. Kagami is proud of who she is and what she can do. So to some degree she sort of.. Needs the trauma. Because if it was unnecessary, if it isn't how she got so good, then it was just pain.

Chloe has the. other victims do not look like me jacked up to eleven. Most victims are not rich, most people who are aggressive (In her research) are physical and were harmed physically. Most don't have mayor fathers who bailed them out of trouble, though be it to make her reliant on them and feed his own self esteem, hence encouraging her acting out as it fed him.

But its also because she chose to imitate Audrey. She chose this path in order to win her parents love and it didn't even work. She chose this and now she is not choosing it but something else. She had agency in this god dammit and don't you dare tell her otherwise! She is not a victim! She is not weak!

Feeding into that is stuff like Andre actively and outright teaching her, "Extortion, intimidation, bribery, these are how you win a campaign." Because even as she restructures herself, part of her still defaults to these, part of her still sees them as pragmatic and useful. Part of her thinks they will be needed for her and the people they care about. So again, was it abuse or just Andre being bad at parenting?

Plus on the physical side of things, there is some stuff that can be bled into headcanon, among other things... But one thing I would note is that canon Chloe grabbing Zoe and inspecting her like livestock before giving her approval. How she gets so aggressively close and into people's space when she otherwise seems to try and be distant. This screams learned behavior and we can't even blame it all on Audrey cos she was more of a: Fly in tear my daughter apart and leave parent. With likely a mix of social media, calls and streams, or rejection from and via those to compound things. So she's getting this heavily from Andre. But its not overt, its not hitting, it can't be abuse then, because Chloe is too different to the victims she finds, too different to be seen as a victim.

All true! I don’t think any of the kids would apply the words "abuse victim" to themselves. Like, their parent suck. They suck SO BAD. Their parents are awful people who aren’t going to change. They know this. They accept this. But I'm not a VICTIM. I'm not ABUSED. I'm not what that looks like. It doesn’t apply to me(derogatory).

Funnily enough, they might apply it to EACH OTHER. Chloé absolutely thinks Gabriel is emotionally neglecting Adrien. Adrien thinks André and Audrey emotionally abuse Chloé. They both think Tomoe abuses Kagami. But it doesn’t apply to themselves, and they don’t bring it up or try to convince each other.

[libellule-saphique]

Miraculous Season 5: Luka & Kagami's Wasted Potential

If this show wasn't already bad enough.........

Like everything else, it disappoints me that the writers of this show are lazy when it comes to additional character development essentially in the love rivals

but who am I kidding? I knew what to expect when Thomas quite literally said Gabriel was redeemable after torturing all of Paris for years simply because he wants his wife back actively neglecting & abusing his son in the process while in the same breath saying Chloe is beyond redemption and she's a teenage girl who's dad couldn't give a rat's ass about her and spoils her crazy to get her off his back 24/7 and her mom who wants nothing to do with her verbally & mentally abuses her with the only real people who like her to the slightest and tolerate her are Sabrina and Armand who's practically her butler. The double comparison and double standard is wild but nonetheless not surprising seeing how the show's narrative is already bias when it comes down to Adrien & Marinette's character treatment. (the misogyny and racism is loud as hell)

Season 4 of Miraculous was already beginning to go downhill and season 5 simply added icing on the cake. To be honest I was partly excited to see the relationship dynamic within the love rival relationships, Lukanette & Adrigami at the start of season 4 because it was different from the repetitive love square and we got to see our two main leads interact with other characters in a romantic light other than themselves only to end before they could really start. It was a slap in the face and a huge cut from some possible major character development and love square progress. But the writers are so afraid of change and cant manage to make a good progressive storyline and felt that Luka & Kagami were too much of a threat to their Love Square that could've heavily improved because of them in the first place. Some episodes could've been focused on friendships between the love rivals and Marinette & Adrien. But ofc we get the same monotonous plotline mid season 3 to the beginning of season 4 Adrien & Kagami spend more time together, Marinette is conflicted and overwhelmed with feelings, Luka is there for emotional support (which felt like his sole purpose in earlier episodes even until now) Kagami is constantly frustrated by Adrien's indecisiveness, passiveness, and hesitance, etc, etc whatever and it continues all until they break up.

Then out of the wood works, we get Adrien realizing he has feelings for Marinette despite her being quote on quote "just a friend" 3-4 seasons straight. Despite. Marinette putting a hold on relationships ever since Lukanette's breakup and the fact that Monarch is still on the prowl and her responsibilities as a hero, because lets be honest if Ladybug/Marinette doesn't tend to Paris & Monarch no one else will, (Chat Noir definitely won't) the writers still say "hey lets tend to and coddle Adrien's feelings bc now he likes her more than "just a friend" and it doesn't matter how Marinette feels, doesn't matter if she's not ready for a relationship even though she's made that clear on multiple occasions after her and Luka's breakup bc at the end of day what we learn is what we already know "Adrien's feelings are more important than Marinette's overall treatment as the female protagonist and discomfort."

And what do you ask happens to the love rivals? Of course! the writers have to find a way to string them away from the complicated love square

Instead we get Luka shipped off with his dad on a world tour and Kagami paired with Felix (which........also doesn't feel right and for what reason did this have to happen?) Felix is the same guy who quite literally SH Ladybug, but ok? the writers feel like it makes sense to pair Kagami with this guy? She seems to like him for the same reasons her and Adrien's relationship took so long to work out in the first place. I don't even know what she saw in him, he's so bland, so passive, and everyone characterizes him as a "perfect cinnamon catboy who's abused and needs emotional support leaning on our main female lead who's not responsible for his baggage at all but hey! Everything is Marinette's responsibility after all right? They decide to give Felix more purpose in the show as Felix's a more assertive, serious, proactive version of Adrien and that's exactly what Kagami's looking for but I honestly think that it's a cop out for the possible unresolved feelings she had/has for Adrien (though he doesn't deserve her anyway) . It's like the show's message when it comes to romance and love is the only way to be genuinely happy is in a relationship which is so beyond fucked up, and its a overall bad message to kids and teens, no one in the show learns to love themselves and learn themselves first, Kagami would be simply fine without any relationship I can say the same for many other characters especially Marinette & Adrien. Why are romantic relationships needed to began with?

Season 5 is a prime example of the garbage dump Miraculous has become over the years and the poor writing decisions the writers have made.

[theerurishipper]

After learning about the leaks about Paris special, I just want to say that all of the comics and headcanons fans created speculating how they would be in emoverse are much better than what we got. Wouldn't it be ironic to say that they're born evil like Chloe in ogverse and that some backstory doesn't justify their wrongdoings. They are evil and very much proud of it with either their cringe worthy fails or terrifying terrorism

Agreed. Like, I don't mind the arc they were intending for with Chloe, I don't mind them showing that some people can't change, but then they'll redeem the terrorist/abuser. And they'd rather say that Chloe is just inherently evil without exploring or acknowledging the backstory and motivations they wrote for her. That's the issue here. And now Shadybug and Claw Noir are going to get some half-assed redemption. Honestly, I would have preferred them being evil, you know, like an everyone has a good and bad side in them and who you are depends on the choices you make kind of thing, especially since Miraculous is so fond of redemptions.

I get it, that's just my wish and the show doesn't have to follow my exact preferred storyline to be good, but the information we have doesn't paint a very promising picture either way. Considering the bullshittery of the Season 5 finale and Gabriel's shitty-ass redemption, it really just feels like this special is pushing the Gabe Is Good agenda in our face, you know? I mean, Guardian Angel? For the child abuser in our main continuity? The one who doesn't seem like he did a good job in the alternate timeline either seeing as his son was so unable to process his grief that he became a magical terrorist? This guy is called Guardian Angel? I mean, maybe he did his best, but we won't know until we watch the special, and the show has a habit of blaming Adrien for Gabriel's actions anyway, so. It just feels like it's pushing the "some people are good and some people are evil no matter in what continuity, and Marinette and Adrien are good deep down, and so is Gabriel. But Chloe is just always evil lmaooooo." I don't mind it too much, but shit's still kinda weird, man.

And like, what do you mean "Shadybug and Claw Noir don't even like each other?" That's kind of the whole appeal for a lot of people lmao, and they hate each other? I mean, I'm not going to judge it based on my expectations and say it's bad just because I didn't get what I wanted, but... really? And I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say Hesperia and Claw Noir have no personal interaction despite them being father and son and Adrien's motivation being to bring Emelie back. Like, at a certain point, it crosses the line from being my insignificant expectation to being just... bad choices and an inability to create proper payoff. I think Hesperia interacts more with Marinette than Adrien in this special. Getting major Season 5 finale-esque "Marinette replaces Adrien in his arc" vibes.

But I'm not disappointed, surprising as that sounds. I never expected it to be good. I was always just here to see Claw Noir on screen so I can properly pick him up and toss him into my fanfics. I was excited for the special, sure, but I didn't have my hopes up and the leaks seem to have proved me right. Idk, maybe they'll surprise me. I doubt it though.

Thank you for your ask!

[i-like-anything-water]

okay this is rough and jumbled.

SnakeHolder!Chloe headcanons:

Sass is shown to be calm and charming, qualities that make the Kwamis look up to him and consider him as a leader figure. Chloe's tendencies to be easily driven by poor writing by her emotions, especially her self loathing and insecurities can be redeemed with continuous support, calm but firm guidance by Sass. He's also described as mature and responsible which dissuades Chloe's attempts at anything that could get her in trouble or revert her to her old ways.

Sass had doubts at first but after a near death experience where Chloe didn't seem to be fazed or had mind, he was intrigued. And maybe a bit worried.

Surprisingly, Chloe denies him at first saying that Ladybug was right and she shouldn't be trusted with another miraculous. This goes on and on until she finally bursts and all the pent up trauma comes out. Part time Kwami, full time Therapist.

Their relationship is rocky at first but they eventually became civil after they transformed (against Chloe's will) to fight off a powered up akuma. The others weren't aware as Chloe insisted they work incognito.

Chloe slowly redeems herself after acting quick and planning fast everytime she uses Second Chance. It's hard to keep up while making sure she doesn't get seen by the other heroes. It's hard at first but what does she have to lose anyway?

Her new hero persona eventually bleeds into her personal life. She's still sassy (lol), mean, and doesn't take anyone's shit but she's more aware now. Going back in time to fix things alters your brain chemistry.

Awareness is the first step to redemption. After numerous breakdowns and nights of self loathing and pity, she eventually acknowledges everything she's done wrong and sees everything in a new perspective and just freaks out.

Cue Protective Sass!

The process is slow and subtle and people don't notice it at first. Chloe thinks first now. She's able to hold in usual insults that would freely come out of her and reconsider her reaction (unless it's sudden, spooked her, etc.)

Next to awareness and acknowledgement is guilt. After realizing everything she's done, she tries everything she can do at that moment to change even some things. Apologies aren't easy for her because she's never even heard that directed to her. In sincerity and not fear. So, whenever she doesn't have to help Ladybug and Chat Noir, she practices with Sass.

"I..," a shaky breath, "I'm sorry."

She practices the phrase before and after the day.

She's hella confused. She's grateful Sass is there to assure her everytime. She stumbles through her words but she manages to get out a sincere apology to the closest person she has: Sabrina.

They talk about it and their friendship shifts. It's not perfect, but it's better than before.

She hasn't formally apologized to the others yet but she's trying.

With help from both Sabrina and Sass, she starts to apologize (but now with more confidence) to people she's hurt. Rose is open to the idea of mending bonds, the others are wary but doesn't say anything else.

The last two she apologizes to is Adrien and Marinette. Adrien is wary but his kindness overweights his doubts. They're not back to what was before and frankly Chloe is glad. She doesn't want what's in the past, she wants to create something now and for the future.

Marinette was the last.

"You shouldn't forgive me right away," she interrupts the shorter girl, "I know you're kind and such a goody two shoes but that doesn't mean you should forgive me after a week or so." She levels a determined look to shocked blue eyes, "Let me prove myself first." And softer, "please."

Well that's all I have so far. I just find it befitting for two major reasons: Sass's ability can actually help Chloe see things in more than one perspective which would help her deal and open up with all her trauma and toxic habits. The ability allows her to be more observant on where she needs to go back to fix the mistake. It takes quick thinking and concentration of the user. It requires an open mind on alternatives. And secondly, 'Second Chance' is fitting for what she needs. Not a half baked Arc where she doesn't know what she wants and needs. But something firm and continuous to keep her going. A real second chance.

That's just me and my rambling. Feel free to add or correct me about anything! (Don't be rude about it though).

[deliahscrush2003]

beta reader here!

beta & alpha readers wanted for fic projects will beta in exchange!

Hey everyone!

For those that don't know me, my name's Lou (she/her) and I have recently gotten back into revamping the numerous fic projects I had in my vaults and trying to get back into my writing again.

I have put out this post to say that if anyone is also in a similar situation with their own fics, I am offering my fellow fic writers to beta & alpha read fics in exchange for coming on as an alpha or beta reader for my own projects.

As a beta & alpha reader, I am willing to not only check for grammar, punctuation, spelling and formatting but also:

identify weaknesses in the plot.

identify pieces in the story where engagement was high or lacking.

identify points in the story where clarity is needed.

help develop characters (both oc & canon)

canon check pieces of information (for canonverse/compliant fics)

|| if you have specific needs, feel free to check with me ! ||

As a writer, I am looking for someone to help with:

identifying inconsistent tense.

identifying where engagement was high or lacking.

identifying points in the story where clarity is needed.

writing relationship development (platonic/romantic)

editing plot structure and fluidity.

writing descriptive settings.

identifying monotone or repetitive parts of the story.

Most importantly, I am looking for people who can approach my story as both a reader passionate about the fic and a writer/editor passionate about helping improve the story.

My projects are also multi-chapter (150,000) and usually part of a wider series (minimum of 3 parts) ; therefore, I am open to working on fic projects that are of equal length!

The fandoms that I write and will read for are:

Fairy Tail, My Hero Academia, Attack on Titan, Game of Thrones/House of Dragons (TV), X-Men (movies), Teen Wolf, The Last Kingdom, The Nine Lives of Chloe King, Harry Potter (fuck JKR tho), The DC Animated Films/Young Justice, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The Walking Dead (universe), Scream (movies), The Vampire Diaries/The Originals, The 100, Glee, Pretty Little Liars, Percy Jackson, Criminal Minds, Wolfblood, The Chronicles of Narnia, Outerbanks, The Maze Runner, Grey's Anatomy, Tower Prep, Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, FATE: The Winx Saga, Stranger Things, Star Wars, Resident Evil (Gameverse), Power Rangers (the movie), The Hunger Games, Five Night's At Freddy's, Pacific Rim.

The fandoms that I have as WIP right now are:

Teen Wolf, Harry Potter, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The Chronicles of Narnia, The 100, Game of Thrones.

The rest of the fandoms listed are in the worldbuilding process, which I also welcome help with if anyone is interested in bouncing ideas back and forth and fleshing out each other's fics!

This is the link to my Ao3 if you want to understand my writing style.

if you're interested in one of the projects I have for these fandoms (as a beta or just as a potential reader), send me a DM or a ask!

The type of fics that I enjoy writing/reading are (with consideration that Ao3 is my primary writing platform):

M-E Rated (For that reason, I prefer to work with 18+ betas)

Plot-heavy but with a well-written romantic subplot (requirement)

Specific tags/plot I enjoy/write: Time-travel, Fix-It, Canon-Divergence, What-Ifs.

Canonverse fics.

Both OC (has to have the potential of good development, though) and Canon Character-centric fics.

Found family, healing from trauma, redemption arcs.

Crossover/fusion fics (where the original fandom is set in the universe of another fandom)

Zombie-Apocolypse fics.

Dark twists on characters, plots, and the wider canonverse.

-

The type of fics that I steer clear from or don't enjoy reading/writing:

G-T Rated.

No romantic subplot at all (I am a romantic girly, sorry to say)

A Mary Sue OC/Reader-Insert or Mary Sue plot.

Reader-inserts.

Established Relationships (unless I can read the build up first)

Specific tags/plot: P*dophilia, Incest (outside of canon-typical), Mpreg, Omegaverse (only under special circumstances).

Modern AUs, Human AUs, No Power AUs.

No Comfort, No Happy Ending, Major Character (Permanent) Death.

Character bashing (I do read fics that bash, but I find it hard to beta for them only because I like to discuss characters objectively - but there are exceptions, so feel free to check)

Anything that attempts to glorify or justify racism, homophobia, transphobia, biphobia, xenophobia, ableism, sexism, bigotry, abuse, r*pe or anything even remotely similar.

(feel free to check with me tho, I am open to discussion of everything except the bottom dot point)

Because I believe beta reading to be an experience that should be enjoyable and insightful for both the reader and writer, I am open to :

Discussing any ships, character arcs, or plot points that my betas personally wanted to see in the show or are very passionate about (read: this does not mean I will change my entire story but that I am open to possibilities)

Analysing and critiquing any of the above media (read: NOT BASHING, but genuine analysis of how different media were handled to apply to our own form of writing)

Giving out and receiving fic, tv, movie and book recs to aid in inspiring each other during the course of our writing, but also to support our fellow writing community!

Even if you're not interested, please repost so it can reach those who are!

[greentrickster]

CorreaCelestePriscila: puedo ver a adrien inverso sorprendido al ver que cannon adrien tiene tantas clases, debe hacer modelaje tantas horas y no poder salir cuando quiera y tenga que pedirle permiso a su padre quien no lo deja salir casi nunca y solo cedió a qué entrara a la escuela cuando se escapó para asistir a clase

y el grupo se sorprendería o horroriza al saber cómo es la actitud o personalidad del canon Gabriel comparado a hesperia/inverso!Gabriel/ su figura paterna....

(Google translate: I can see Adrien in reverse surprised to see that Cannon Adrien has so many classes, he must model so many hours and not be able to go out whenever he wants and he has to ask permission from his father who almost never lets him go out and only gave in to him entering school. when he ran away to attend class     and the group would be surprised or horrified to know what canon Gabriel's attitude or personality is compared to hesperia/inverse!Gabriel/ his father figure....)

GreenTrickster: (considers all this) Chat tends to see the best in people where I assume Claw tends to see the worst in them. This means that Adrien will often extend trust and faith too far in those who don’t have good intentions and wind up taken advantage of, whereas Claw is so skeptical that it causes him to reject aid and support made with genuinely good intentions. However, at the same time this means that Chat’s good at helping people who need a second chance or extended hand (like Claw), and Claw’s good at spotting and escaping bad situations (like the one Chat’s in). It’s less a simple ‘one has a good father and the other has a trash fire’ and more a ‘they have different skillsets that cause them to struggle with different situations.’

I think it’d be interesting for a Claw who’s been working more on his relationship with his dad to visit Chat, see how canon!Gabriel treats him, and, instead of just getting angry, take him aside to explain that this isn’t okay to him. To tell him that Chat’s advice did help him with his own father, but that the way the Gabriels behave in the two different universes is wildly different and (quoting Hesperia) that it’s not their job as kids to fix that. Chat helped Claw get closer to his Gabriel and learn that the distance between them was mostly miscommunication and grief manifesting in different ways. I think it would be great to see Claw, with his stronger sense of independence, help Chat recognize that he’s in a genuinely abusive relationship and help him start to distance himself from his Gabriel.

It'd also be neat if, remembering what Shadybug has mentioned about Ladybug having a nice mom, he encouraged Chat to spend more time with Ladybug’s family, and those of his other friends, not just to get away from his toxic homelife but to observe and learn what a healthy homelife looks like.

Most interesting of all I think would be to see the Gabriels meet and clash. I think Hawkmoth, beyond anything else, would be the one person most able to get Hesperia really, truly angry.

(And yes, I’m sticking with Hawkmoth instead of Monarch, just- just erase so much canon whenever I talk, Fu’s still around and the Guardian, Ladybug’s taken more responsibilities and Hawkmoth’s managed to steal a few more Miraculous, but he doesn’t have all of them. In fact, I’m going to say that currently in canon he has the butterfly, repaired peacock, bee, and dragon, the last two he got at the end of season 3 (which is the point in the show where I really start to get annoyed at canon anyway, so why not?). So:

Nathalie is on the mend due to the peacock being fixed and having used it infrequently, but Emilie, having used it far more often, remains unchanged. Chloe’s going through a rough patch in her redemption arc, where she’s hurt and angry that Ladybug called on another hero with a known identity for help and in the process left Chloe at the mercy of Hawkmoth. Marinette’s own rough patch and self-doubt she’s going through when she meets Hesperia is caused because she made a bad call that not only didn’t manage to get the bee miraculous back, but also lost them the dragon in the process. And, heck, the peacock is just officially the miraculous of Observation in both universes in this fic, because fighting an enemy with perfect awareness of their surroundings would be a fascinating challenge, especially since you’d have to keep coming up with new ideas with each new battle.)

Anyway, Hesperia vs Hawkmoth would also be a truly fascinating fight, because while Hawkmoth has four miraculous and maybe an akuma, Hesperia has multiple allies and the ability to dispel any akuma Hawkmoth creates. So it would be a matter of fighting one strong opponent with multiple abilities they can use as much as they like versus several relatively weaker opponents with one ability each that they need to recharge after using. That could be such an exciting battle, especially with Heserpia and Hawkmoth arguing morality at its heart!

[red-balloon12]

Me just starting to settle with the dispute about people in the Miraculous fandom saying that Chloe didn’t “deserve” redemption only to turn around and be faced with the same sentiment about Azula from Avatar, is both giving me the ick and also whiplash.

Why are people so allergic to imperfect victims learning to be better and grow as people. They really said “Well, Zuko had his redemption so everyone else isn’t allowed to change” Like…bro..that’s not how redemption works.

In real life, you can’t pick and choose who redeems themself and who doesn’t. You can’t decide that for others. It’s up to the person in question. And like I said before, redemption isn’t this special piece of candy only made for “special” characters/people, it’s a PROCESS of GROWTH. Anyone has the capability to undergo it with the right amount of patience, taking accountability and compassion for themselves and from the people around them.

And yeah, I’m not saying it’s gonna be easy for Azula. It’s gonna be even harder for her than Zuko because she never had that love and support that pushed Zuko to change. And she may not have (or she may have but it was over shadowed by her misdeeds) redeemable qualities to her, but that doesn’t mean she can’t gain them and that certainly doesn’t mean she’s a lost cause.

She’s broken, confused and is fighting with herself (not to mention still a teen). She’s basically where Zuko was at mid season two. Her redemption is going to call people to be patent with her (yes both in and out of media.) And I sense that the people who don’t want her to redeem herself just don’t have that patience. They’re just so quick to write her off as a lost cause and it’s sad to me.