#this is about a lot of characters but specifically wwx

[autisthottygoth]

I feel like a lot of danmei readers often equate "selfless" with "morally correct" and that causes ..... issues

[piosplayhouse]

Something I think thats interesting/really tiring about the wwx morality debate is that I think some people, in an effort to understand wwx as a "morally good character", tend to take their own preconceptions of moral ideals and then squish wwx into that box, whether or not he did or would actually share those ideals. But in my opinion, that's kind of like putting the cart before the horse-- wwx already has his own ideals and actions that make up who he is, and those are what define him as good. It's not necessarily that he did all this positive action because he's supposed to be a great person, but that he's a great person because of who he is and what he does

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

It's the 6 month anniversary of this blog! Check out these cool bugs I found.

(EDIT: Check out this amazing fanart by thecornermushroom!)

Part 2 - Part 3

[kastukj]

Really trying to watch the untamed and give it a proper chance but man there’s just so much that doesn’t sit well w me… i want to love it but it’s making that really hard to do 😞

[thatswhatsushesaid]

i have been obsessing over this extremely short moment post-sunshot campaign for weeks now trying to put together a lengthier post about it, but i think the screenshots themselves arranged chronologically speak for themselves. so i will just post them and then talk about the framing, because i’m insane about it.

just about everyone else on this side of the banquet hall within the scorching sun palace is looking towards jin guangshan as he speaks—everyone except for:

1) jin guangyao, who is staring straight ahead with a startlingly flat and resigned expression on his face, despite being seated in a position of honour beside his brother, and

2) nie huaisang, who is obviously TRYING to pay attention, but his attention keeps wandering between looking at nie mingjue, and looking at jin guangyao

(also he gets no further commentary/acknowledgement from me but look at jin zixun back there just lounging in his seat like a smug spoiled brat. ugh. step on legos forever jin zixun.)

the camera shifts its focus while jgs keeps talking to zero in on jgy’s expression. this deliberately highlights and provides us the chance to see his expression in more detail. and it is so hard to discern what he is feeling specifically beyond “not great,” but what stands out for me is: he isn’t wearing his usual polite, customer service mask, the one he managed to keep in place both during the introductory sequence at the cloud recesses in the face of so much mockery from the jiang sect disciples.

so what is that expression? what is going on in his head that he can’t play the part that he’s perfect for years now, when he has supposedly almost achieved everything he ever dreamed of accomplishing for himself and his mother? i mean, i have my suspicions of course, because we know what is going to happen very soon.

and then—

—the focus of this scene changes, drawing our attention away from jin guangyao towards nie huaisang where he’s seated just behind nie mingjue. because nie huaisang is not paying attention to jgs’s speech or watching his da-ge. unlike everyone else in this banquet hall in this moment, nie huaisang is looking at jin guangyao, observing him in this moment where his polite mien has failed him, and god what i wouldn’t give to know what is going through his head!! because:

1) i don’t for a moment believe nmj told nhs the details of what transpired between him and jgy during their confrontation in the scorching sun palace. i don’t think he did this as a favour to jgy or to lxc, either. imo this decision would be consistent with nmj shutting down any discussion of what caused him to exile meng yao from the unclean realm back in… uhhh, episode 10?? when nhs, wwx and jc all converge in the unclean realm throne room to ask about meng yao’s fate. (yeah it was episode 10.) anyway for all we know this is the first time nhs has seen his old body guard/babysitter since he watched meng yao totter feebly into the wild blue yonder all those months ago, and now here he is seated in a place of honour between jin zixuan and his da-ge, looking perhaps even more miserable than he did while bleeding from a giant sword wound in his chest. it is entirely consistent with nhs’s character to be like ‘???? what is up with this??’ but not even he is bold enough to ask jgy what is up in the middle of this banquet, not with da-ge right there.

2) his expression is ALSO harder to read than it would have been when they were last together!! but there are clearly gears and cogs shifting and ticking and whirring behind his eyes, and the fact that the framing calls attention to nhs noticing jgy in this moment when it’s quite clear no one else does is one of many hints the show is dropping for us that nhs is more than just a lackadaisical and absent-minded second son. he notices things that no one else does—but, as with jgy, we are left to guessing as to what he is thinking, and what conclusions he is drawing.

well okay it looks like i managed to write a lot of words down about this after all!! go me.

[tavina-writes]

I have been pondering the recent rash of "post canon NHS and LXC would never ever reconcile bc even if NHS wanted to have Er-ge back, LXC would never ever forgive him for [insert reason of choice here]" type of posts + the "do you think NHS thinks very hard about how much Da-ge would hate him for becoming [the way that he is now] by choosing to seek vengeance" type of posts, and I think fundamentally the reason these posts do not jive with me is that we have no indication, in the show or in the book that uh, NHS gives a shit about either of these things very much anymore?

The first type of post is predicated on the assumption that LXC's forgiveness or lack thereof some some sort of either extension of mercy (which NHS obviously does not deserve <- or so assumes the post) or some form of punishment (which is obviously the correct answer) but the last scene we get with NHS both in the book and the show make no indication that this is a thing he wants? Or cares about? Book NHS has *sauntered off* with his little hat trophy and Show NHS walks off screen after saying something along the lines of "What is my responsibility I won't shirk, what isn't my responsibility I won't care about." Now, arguably, show NHS is having a worse go of it emotionally, but shows no real inclination or interest in either apologies or making up and being friends again with LWJ, LXC, WWX, or other people. Book NHS seems pretty pleased with the outcome of the events as a whole?

The second type of post is predicated on the fact that NHS finds Da-ge's judgement a horrible burden to bear at this stage in the game, which! He might! But again especially in the book we get no indication that he has any fucks left to give about what Da-ge may or may not have wanted since Da-ge is dead. In both the show and the book, NHS went about revenge taking very specific and complicated actions with the desired result of JGY dying, but he certainly took the scenic route getting there, which, he didn't need to? As I've written about before, JGY didn't see him as a threat. If he wanted JGY dead he could've arranged to poison JGY's tea like, 10 years ago and had done with it instead of his complicated Rube Goldberg life ruining scheme. If he is still sickly anxious about how Da-ge might feel about the scheming and the trouble causing and the whole everything, that's certainly possible, but he must've decided it was worth it anyway regardless of that, and I don't know that it necessarily would've changed just because he got what he wanted at the end.

Overall, I think as a fandom we think a lot about like "will and should this relationship ever be repaired or similar to how it used to be?" and "does this character deserve/not deserve the forgiveness of people they've hurt or abandoned?" which can be interesting questions! I do feel like these are often taken as "is a character morally good (deserves to be forgiven) or morally bad (deserves to rot in hell forever never forgiven ever ever)" and based entirely on if Character is the meta writer's blorbo. Under this paradigm the concept of "Character did bad things to get exactly what they wanted and were happy about that and no relationships were ever repaired and the emotional detachment of people they used to care about no longer matters to them!" is uncomfortable.

It's just that for NHS I've increasingly come to the conclusion that canonically, I don't think NHS thinks he has anything to apologize for, nor is he super interested in being forgiven! He got what he wanted the way he wanted it to happen. Which is potentially supremely unsatisfying but I think is very sexy as a narrative concept.

[wangxianficfinder]

In the mood for...

July 10th

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1. thanks in advance :) i hope you don't mind a nsfw itmf req. can you/the community recommend any good fics with bimboification vibes? specifically with wwx as the one undergoing it. i've read several fics like this, but i'm hoping there are more i haven't found

Baby, You Ain’t Seen Nothing Yet by TriviasFolly (E, 177k, WangXian, Modern AU, A/B/O Dynamics, Alpha LWJ, Omega WWX, Omega LSZ, Mafia, Crime, Sects are Clans, Feral WWX, Feral Omegas, Nurse WWX, Dark LWJ, Dark WWX, Possessive LWJ, feminine WWX, wwx’s cannon desire to be a sugar baby/trophy wife, Breeding Kink, Mpreg) A/B/O dynamics, long fic, modern AU mafia setting, really great

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2. Hi for the next itmf I was wondering if anyone had some time travel gone wrong? Like, maybe wwx tries to go to the past but instead he only sends resentment and it ends up haunting the wwx of the past or sometimes. Thanks!

Grief and Blame, Interwoven by donutsweeper (T, 2k, LXC & LWJ, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Character Death, Dark, discipline whip, Time Travel) LXC uses time travel and changes something to fix things but it doesn't work remotely as he'd thought it would

🔒❤️ the thing with feathers by RoseThorne  (G, 43k,wangxian, Transmigration, Time Travel Fix-It, Illnesses, Family, Scars, Memory Loss, Angst, Fear, Recovery, Sharing a Bed, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Good Parent YZY, Referenced Sexual Slavery, Blood and Gore, Sexual Tension, Arranged Marriage, Grief, Adoption, POV Third Person, POV Alternating, Implied/Referenced Abuse, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Good Parent LQR, Clairvoyance, Butterfly Effect) link in #12

❤️ A Future Family In A Broken Past by Hauntcats (T, 121k, wangxian, time travel, not Jiang friendly, Not Cultivation World Friendly, WWX Needs a Hug, Family Dynamics, What is a good family?, Fear of emotions does not excuse abuse, happy ending of sorts, Not Jiang Clan Friendly, Angst with a Happy Ending, fix-it, Canon-Typical Violence, Canon Divergence, LXC needs a hug, Everyone Needs A Hug, except JC, He can suffer, Homophobia, Homophobic Language, not YZY friendly) has time travel that was fueled by resentful energy so more monsters are encountered in the new timeline.

Lan Yuan's War by BurningTea (G, 196k, LSZ & LWJ, LWJ & LXC, WangXian, LWJ & WQ, WIP, Time Travel, Dad LWJ, Sunshot Campaign, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, Eventual Happy Ending, Rumours, Lots of rumours about LWJ, several people worry about LWJ, CQL Verse, Mental Health Issues, LWJ is very much not okay, Time travel has consequences, Sick LWJ) has time travel that affects the golden cores and health of those who traveled through time.

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3. Hi, for the next itmf, can you suggest some fics where A-yuan and Lan Jingyi are twins

🔒❤️ kick at the darkness ‘til it bleeds daylight by AlfAlfAlfAlfAlf, tardigradeschool (T, 75k, WangXian, Hurt/Comfort, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, Eventual Happy Ending, Getting Together, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, Inspired by The Parent Trap (1998), Kid Fic, teen shenanigans, two a-yuans, Fluff and Angst)

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4. thank you for your work !! itmf any fic where either yl!wwx gets transported to the future, or he comes back to life after his death, and his name has been cleared/he’s been missed/basically he isn’t met with hatred and killing intent. thanks again!

🧡 The Shade of Old Trees by Kryal (T, 363k, WangXian, Ridiculously Long Notes, History, Canon Divergence, Modern AU, Slow Burn, Worldbuilding, Slow Life, Action/Adventure, Magic Returns, BAMF WWX)

Until The End by abCEE (M, 365k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, war changes people, resulting to OOC, no pinning, Established Relationship, Mpreg, Good Uncle LQR, a little grey LWJ, a bit of JC bashing from LWJ, BAMF JYL, 16 years of yearning, mainly CQL verse but has scenes from the novel as well, LSZ is WangXian’s Child, WWX Has a New Golden Core, Canon Rewrite, Happy Ending, Fix-It of Sorts) might work. It isn’t time travel, rather a canon rewrite, but circumstances happen and in the years WWX is absent his name is cleared.

🔒 不忘 | Don't Forget by dragongirlG (E, 50k, WangXian, LSZ & LWJ, JL & LSZ & LJY & OYZZ, Canon Divergence, Time Travel, Reincarnation, Fix-It of Sorts, Identity Porn, Social Media, Devotion, Reunions, Feelings, Family, Angst with a Happy Ending, Light Bondage, Names, References to Canon, Modern Era, Artist WWX, Sexual Content, Pining, POV Multiple, Additional Warnings In Author's Note)

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5. Hi! This is for ITMF where WWX works as medical examiner or a coroner or he works in lab like in "i really want to know (who are you)" by Stratisphyre

Thank you! @idontknowwhattowriteforusername

Slaughter House by Duochanfan (M, 24k, future WangXian, LXC/NMJ, NHS/JC, Light Angst, Drama, Crime Scenes, Crime Drama, Psychometric WWX, Coroner WWX, detective LWJ, Detective JC, slight romance, Amnesia, Past Kidnapping, Murder Mystery, Reference to Autopsies, dead bodies, Single Parent WWX, Modern)

Post Mortem by Cataclysmic_Calamity (E, 178k, WangXian, Psychological Horror, Modern, friends with benefits, they’re both fucked up but they love each other so much, Slow Burn Mystery, Unnegotiated Kink, Dom/sub, Anal Sex, Consensual Non-Consent, Stalking, Drug Addiction, Serial Killers, in WWX’s desire to critique the ‘final girl’ trope he accidentally becomes one, Angst with a Happy Ending, meta commentary on the horror and true crime genres) medical examiner WWX, thriller/horror, stalking but not between Wangxian, extremely good writing, very worth the read

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6. sorry if this has been asked before but for im ITMF a fic where lan wangji is very overprotective of wei wuxian. preferably because wwx's death traumatized him, but id also take any other overprotective fics. thank you!!!! @stgroversfire

So Full Of Love (Wouldn’t Know Where to Start) by witchupbitch (M, 63k, WIP, WangXian, Best Friends, Friends to Lovers, Fluff, Eventual Romance, Eventual Sex, Possessive LWJ, Protective LWJ, Blood and Violence, Idiots in Love, Humor, Mafia AU, Modern AU, Flirting, shameless WWX, Confident WWX, Explicit Language, Mutual Sexual Tension, dark LWJ, Dark WWX, Exhibitionism Sex, Possessive Behavior, Unhealthy Relationships, Twisted and Fluffy Feelings) modern AU mafia, dark Wangxian, like they're both really fucked up

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7. hello hardworking mods! i can see that you're working on a backlog, so no rush, and thanks for your hard work!! i would love to see a fic where any member of the cast is trans, and learning how to deal with second puberty - preferably ftm, and not treated like a crack fic. bonus points if its wwx and he gets totally railed, bonus bonus points if there are lovely family dynamics centred around someone being lovingly accepted.

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8. Hello good! This fandom is so big that I was wondering if fanfics were written with Lan Wangji condemned to live the same fate as his mother. Mama Lan was always a compelling mystery to me, canon LWJ was more in line with making her father's mistake, but then I thought about Mama Lan and went wild thinking "What if?" It would be a delicious avalanche of mixed feelings and strange curveballs for Wangxian to end up like this, considering their dynamic and how they are as people. I don't know what tag to use to find something like this (if it exists), so I would really appreciate your help! Thanks for your time in advance @makolashida

I haven't read any fanfics of that type but maybe dark!Wei Wuxian + bottom Lan Wangji could give some results? Maybe just bottom Lan Wangji + gusu lan sect bashing

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9. I m new to this... I don't really know how this works but... Are there any fics where Wei Ying goes to therapy and just processes his trauma? @ishipwenqingwithmyself

Better By Change by NebulusCharlie (Not Rated, 8k, WangXian, Therapy, Not JC Friendly, gaslighting JYL, Happy Wangxian, Fluffy wangxian, Boundaries, healthy mindspace) it's a modern AU, involves JC + JYL bashing, doesn't deal with canon WWX trauma like losing his core/various family deaths/war trauma

redemption lies plainly in truth by kaseyskat (T, 5k, WangXian, JC & WWX, JL & WWX, WQ & WWX, WWX & JYL, Post-Canon, Hurt/Comfort, Angst with a Happy Ending, Grief/Mourning, Character Study, WWX is allowed to mourn, that's it that's the fic, Reconciliation, mentions of WWXs past) set in canon so no therapy in the modern sense but WWX gets time to process some of his grief

Come Around and Stay by trippednfell (M, 160k, WangXian, NieLan, Slow Burn, Kid Fic, Found Family, Modern AU, It Gets Worse Before It Gets Better, PTSD, Blood and Injury, Dissociation, Angst with a Happy Ending, Musicals, POV Alternating, Baking, Yunmeng reconciliation (eventually), Friend Zoning, Literal Sleeping Together, Hurt/Comfort, Panic Attacks) modern AU, WWX gets a therapist in this one, no canon trauma processing but deals with modern trauma

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10. Are there any fics, where wangxian end up talking about LXC calling WWX LWJ's one mistake? Or where LWJ finds out his brother said that. Thank you for all your amazing work. I adore this blog. @winxhelina

🔒💖 When has silence saved anyone?by Vrishchika (T, 6k, wangxian, LSZ & WWX & LWJ, post-canon, LXC  critical, family feels, angry LWJ & LSZ, LXC gets scolded) really wonderful writing, takes a critical look at LXC

Wei Ying Was Not A “MISTAKE” by Jeeny271196 (Not rated, 6k, wangxian, LXC & LWJ, BAMF LWJ, confrontation, hurt/comfort, protective LWJ, not LXC friendly) LWJ snaps back at LXC

Enough! by Jeeny271196 (Not Rated, 12k, WangXian, WIP, Gusu Lan Sect Bashing, Jiang Family Bashing, JC Bashing, LXC Bashing, BAMF WWX, Cultivation Sect Politics) WWX is the one who snaps back at LXC

break by justdoityoufucker (T, 3k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, LXC Critical, JC Critical, Canonical Character Death, Guānyīn Temple Scene, BAMF WN, Protective WN) Wen Ning is the one who snaps back at LXC

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11. ITMF fics (non modern au) that explore WWX’s time on the street and the consequences of it please and thank you @dynmo13

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12. for itmf any fics about wei wuxians childhood in yunmeng jiang sect mostly canon but they save yunmeng jiang sect/not everyone dies and madame yu is not written as an antagonist or she has redemption arc something like that

tysm @r3n-vy

🔒❤️ the thing with feathers by RoseThorne  (G, 43k,wangxian, Transmigration, Time Travel Fix-It, Illnesses, Family, Scars, Memory Loss, Angst, Fear, Recovery, Sharing a Bed, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Good Parent YZY, Referenced Sexual Slavery, Blood and Gore, Sexual Tension, Arranged Marriage, Grief, Adoption, POV Third Person, POV Alternating, Implied/Referenced Abuse, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Good Parent LQR, Clairvoyance, Butterfly Effect)

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13. Itmf wwx having a daughter

Jiang Xiaolian's Guide to Motherhood and Gardening by bumbledees (T, 14k, WangXian, JC/WQ, JYL/JZX, Crack Taken Mostly Seriously, like many of WWX's best ideas it starts as a joke!, and then i write it, canon is sad bitch let's get you some fun, purposeful baby aquisition, john mulaney voice: you know those days when you're like 'this might as well happen', that's this fic, WWX when will you learn that there are consequences to your actions, have a melon baby) sort of but not really mpreg? there's no actual pregnancy, just some WWX-typical cultivation shenanigans

sweet lotus petals, unfolding in the sun by stiltonbasket (G, 33k, WangXian, LXC & LWJ, LXC & WWX, JC & WWX, Unplanned Pregnancy, Married WangXian, Tooth-Rotting Fluff, Curtain Fic, wangxian are dads and it hurts so good, Medical Inaccuracies, heaps of them, Mpreg, lxc is best bro, someone save JC, wangxian dual cultivation baby, except not how you think, the radish method gets an upgrade, Reincarnation) mpreg WWX

❤️ Attempting the Impossible by Ariaste for williedustice (T, 36k, WangXian, JC & WWX, Post-Canon, Yunmeng Bros Reconciliation, Adoption, Family Fluff, Kid fic, Family drama, Fluff, 🔒[PODFIC] Attempting the Impossible by Ariaste by lunatique)

Never Again by Hauntcats (T, 67k, WWX & WN & WQ, JC & WWX, wangxian, graphic depictions of violence, major character death, Canon Divergence, Angst, Golden Core Transfer Fix-It, Time Travel Fix-It, Not JC Friendly, Dark, BAMF WWX, mentions of abuse, Not Everyone Dies au, XY doesn’t have a happy ending)

🔒 Little Stars by Aki_no_hikari (G, 4k, WangXian, Family Fluff, Domestic Fluff, Canon Divergence, Yílíng Wèi Sect)

The Trouble with Talismans: a Treatise on Time-Travel by Young Master Lan Xiaohui (Age 6) by stiltonbasket (G, 26k, WangXian, LSZ & WWX & LWJ, LXC & LWJ, LXC/NMJ, Time Travel, wangxian get smacked in the face with their future children, Parenthood, Developing Relationship, Getting Together, a-yuan is the best big brother, xiao-yu has a, Very bad day, baby just wants his a-niang, and for his parents to GET IT TOGETHER already, Happy Ending, Confused WWX, Accidental Baby Acquisition, lwj is panicking)

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14. Hi! I'm in the mood for any good recommendations for fanfics that aren't on AO3. Any favorite Tumblr posts, or anything on other sites. Smut or Fluff very welcome! But anything goes. @hikato-chan

Shattered Mirrors Master Post by @besanii

rebuttable presumption masterpost by @sarah-yyy

The requester for 14 should be sure to check out the non-AO3 fic compilations: Non-AO3 Part 1 (Twitter) | Pt.2

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15. Hey! Not sure if my prev. ask got sent so if this is a duplicate please delete. For ITMF - do you know of any fics that challenge the practice of seclusion? It's just the more I think about it the more it seems like the in-universe version of celebrities going to "rehab" at upscale resorts to avoid taking responsibility for their behavior. So I'd like to see a character (possibly lxc?) dragged back out again to clean up their own mess.

Scattered ashes and dispersed smoke series by AshayaTReldai (E, 50k, Past LXC/WWX, WangXian, SL/XXC, Past Mpreg, LXC in Seclusion, Post-LXC in Seclusion, Angst, Family systems theory and differentiation, Broken LXC, but we're going to give him the opportunity to heal, Daoism, PTSD, Abuse, Mental Coercion, Mental Abuse, JGY has a lot to answer for, Dark WWX, Dark LXC, WWX's Birthday, Angry rant, the raw truth) This is a 2 part series, canon divergence AU. Changes are big but don't actually shift the overall plot. (Changes are WWX and LXC have an arranged marriage at first, golden core goes to LXC, WWX and LXC are A-Yuan's birth parents.) That stuff isn't really important and is kind of just mentioned, the focus is on LXC facing his mistakes and actually growing as a person. Wangxian happy ending.

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16. Is there wangxian fics where the gusu classroom sees wangxian's future and shamelessness? what led to deaths framing wwx? Whodunnit and why? @tjrc18

💖 From the Future for the Past by friedchickenlord (G, 27k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Time Travel Fix-It, First Love, Love Confessions, Fluff and Humor, accidental time travel due to one husband malfunctioning array, teen wangxian meet adult wangxian, Happy Ending, adding extra chapter, in this household we hate JGS, in which WWX love library pavilion, (in a way) Yiling Laozu x Hanguang Jun, Denial, Mutual Pining)

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17. fics where wwx has wings. or a fic where wwx only has a (raven?) wing and lwj saw it and fell in love if I'm not mistaken @quwieiidkd

you'll love me at once (the way you did once upon a dream) by sweetlolixo (T, 18k, WangXian, Dark Fairytale, Inspired by Maleficent (2014), Wingfic, Sleeping Beauty with a twist, Maleficent WWX, Prince LWJ, Older WWX, Younger LWJ, young prince lwj flirts with MILF wwx that's it that's the fic, just kidding there is also, Angst with a Happy Ending, True Love's Kiss, Three Chaotic Fairies NHS NMJ and JGY, A Fairytale Iteration of "Lan Zhan you like Mian Mian?!") maleficent AU WWX

the sleeper's gift by iliacquer (T, 6k, WangXian, Implied/Referenced Torture, Disability, A curse within a curse within a curse, Wingfic, Sleeping Beauty Retelling, Maleficent WWX, Reincarnation, Sometimes love lasts multiple lifetimes I guess, True Love's Kiss) another maleficent AU but more intricate, cursed LWJ and WWX

Two is a Pair, Three is a Murder by cosmicworry14 (E, 6k, WangXian, Wingfic, winged!wwx, demonic bird wwx, Bird/Human Hybrids, Protective LWJ, Possessive LWJ, Possessive WWX, Animal Instincts, Courting Rituals, Blood and Gore, Dark) winged WWX due to burial mounds

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If you didn’t get an answer to your ask here, don’t forget to make use of @mdzs-kinkmeme and MDZS KINK MEME on Dreamwidth. Authors actually do use them for ideas. You may get what you order!***Your prompt doesn’t have to be kink! Fluff, crack, whatever - it’s all good!***

[qiu-yan]

I think if MDZS was truly about moral good, then Cultivation Society would have been fundamentally changed and everyone who tried to change it wouldn’t be dead. The fact that XXC and SL wanted to change cultivation sects from being dynastic to more merit based and they got such horrible fates is tragic. JGY wanted to use his power to help the more common folk, but he was struck down and any good he’s done is going to be tainted. WWX and LWJ choose to walk away rather than do anything in the novel, so I’m not sure if their actions can be considered a net positive. There’s only so much good they can do as wandering cultivators, there needs to be some kind of structure to help the community but most sects are unwilling to put in a lot of effort if it doesn’t benefit them specifically. There was no social change in MDZS.

thank you for the message! and sorry it took me five million years to get to it...

from a utilitarian point of view, i think you're completely correct: the one individual the novel holds up as the most righteous out of everyone has a far greater negative than positive impact on the world at large; society and the plight of the common folk are in a worse state at the end of the novel than they are at the beginning. postcanon, no matter how much individual nighthunting wei wuxian and lan wangji do, the life of your average commoner is probably going to get more dangerous. you are correct that there was in fact no social change in MDZS. shit did not change on a major scale.

two comments about this: first, the moral framework employed by MDZS is decidedly non-utilitarian. second, as you said, MDZS is not About Moral Good.

first, the moral framework employed by MDZS is not utilitarian at all. wei wuxian and lan wangji are not "righteous" in the way that someone who pulls the lever in the trolley problem can be called "righteous" via utilitarian reasoning; rather, wei wuxian and lan wangji are "righteous" in the way that someone who walks away from omelas is righteous. from a utilitarian perspective, walking away from omelas doesn't accomplish shit because the child is still suffering and one person's absence is not going to change that. from a non-utilitarian perspective, though, walking away from omelas isn't about bringing about a certain result but rather is about living in accordance to your own ideals and code of honor. it's not about helping as many people as possible or about bringing about the best possible outcome, but rather about living your own life without any regrets.

this isn't a philosophy i (a utilitarian) really buy into, but many people do find it persuasive. and though there are still some logical holes induced by protagonist-centered-morality, i do think that MDZS is overall thematically cohesive if analyzed through this non-utilitarian lens. unfortunately, one side-effect of this lens (as well as the general non-utilitarian sorts of philosophies this lens is based in) is that the story ends up somewhat handwaving actual negative consequences.

second, MDZS is not Purely About Moral Good. it has an internally consistent moral framework and it has a lot to say about what it thinks is righteousness, but it isn't a "ringing endorsement of the Correct Course Of Action" book in the same way many other works of fiction are. MDZS is about a certain kind of righteousness, but it's also a cynical condemnation of society, a remark upon the role and unreliability of rumors and hearsay, a subversion of typical xianxia/wuxia genre tropes, an interpersonal tragedy of love and duty and sacrifice and hubris, and a thorough rejection of the just world fallacy. it's also a romance.

i say that MDZS is also a social critique and a rejection of the just world fallacy because, in my view, we aren't meant to read characters like jin guangyao as "unambiguously evil characters who got what they deserved." i do think we're meant to see the way in which society turns on jin guangyao, the way in which that parallels wei wuxian's unfair downfall, and the way in which the genuine good jin guangyao did for the world is now at risk, as a tragedy. as a rather depressing insight upon the morally bankrupt nature of society. MXTX wrote it that way on purpose. you're not meant to read jin guangyao's downfall and go "he got what he deserved;" rather, you're meant to look at the black-and-white, hypocritical, and classist way in which society turns upon jin guangyao as a criticism of that society - one that builds off of the social criticism baked into wei wuxian's character arc.

there is no structural change in MDZS because MDZS is a criticism of society, not a story about how society got better. MDZS posits that this polite society is classist and morally bankrupt, and then does not fix said society. MDZS says "this polite society was hypocritical and self-serving then, and it still is now." in that sense, then, the ending is deliberately rather tragic.

in that sense, then, wei wuxian stepping away from the cultivation world does also feel like him giving up on society. which, from an interpersonal perspective, is fair: he already set himself on fire and literally died trying to do the right thing, so i don't think we can really begrudge him for not wanting to risk it a second time. maybe this time someone else can try to fix things (and die in the process). also, given his and lan wangji's absolute lack of any political ability, it's probably also for the best that they not try to involve themselves in politics to better the world, because realistically they'd probably just make a bunch of enemies and solve zero of the problems.

MDZS tries to give us some hope for the future of its fictional society: both the novel and the fandom (including me myself) posit that said hope for the future lies in the juniors, by whom wei wuxian's generation tried to better than their parents did for them. jin ling's generation certainly seems kinder than wei wuxian's generation. i think we're meant to conclude that things aren't completely hopeless because jin ling's generation, kinder and nobler than the previous one, will try to fix things.

but personally, i'm not sure how i feel about placing the hopes of social reform on the specific personalities of citizens and leaders, rather than the structures those people exist in. instead, i'm reminded me of what i wrote a few months ago about the granularity of morality in MDZS being the entire individual and not the action, by which i mean that MDZS seems to assess and conclude entire characters as "good people" or "bad people" or "complicated and morally grey people," rather than analyze the morality of specific actions. and i think it's because MDZS treats the unit measurements of morality as people rather than actions or policies, that MDZS is ultimately able to posit that the future will be better because a specific group of individuals from the next generation have kinder personalities - even though there was no structural reform. as if the state of a society is determined purely by the personalities of a select group of future leaders within it, rather than the laws and institutions that bind it and the material conditions its populations live in. to put it in other words, this is peak "we replaced the evil king with a Wise And Just king (and made no other changes), so we've saved the day!!!" thinking.

.

i feel like i rambled a lot in this response, so i apologize for its relative lack of cohesion. i hope i haven't misinterpreted your points and that i've continued the conversation in a relevant manner.

[shijieswife]

saw this on twt and it rlly had me questioning. like what the FUCK is up with people who dislike mxtx mains and love their love interests, and then go outta the way to demonise the mains... specifically thinking of mdzs a lot of wwx shitty characterisation in the en fandom comes from hardcore lwj stans who brand wwx as a dumb, oblivious bitch who didnt know that lwj Obviously had a crush on him that everyone could see, (keep in mind everyone in mdzs was always tlaking about how much lwj HATED wwx) or makes him morally grey... like what even... these people also love to make jc a character of reason and whos Done With Wwxs Shit (keep in mind he says throughout canon to 'leave lwj alone wwx!') which is so. jc ??? reasonable ???

[youhideastar]

out with the wolves deleted scenes

As promised, I come bearing deleted scenes from out with the wolves, the alpha/alpha installment of Wangxian A/B/O Bingo (which is now complete!). Many of these are nsfw text, just fyi. There's another content warning appended to the specific scene that needs it. I hope you enjoy!

I started this story in June 2022, and whoo, it has gone through a lot of structural changes. At first, it was going to be alternating present day and flashbacks, like Fit for Purpose. Then, it was going to unfold in three time periods: “Now,” which would start from the strategy meeting scene, “Then,” which would start from the Yunmeng Courier Station, and “Before,” which would start from WWX’s arrival in CR. When you read the finished fic, you can still see the traces of these structures, but I ultimately decided to go with something less formal, where there are some flashbacks but they don’t alternate every other scene—and the flashbacks are all very short. This is a story that unfolds in the present, and we only go back to the past long enough for LWJ to remember it – not long enough to actually create a separate narrative.

Anyway, this was a version of a CR flashback from that earlier structure.

Lan Wangji was not supposed to want Wei Wuxian: he was a troublemaker, and a drunk, somehow both frivolous and dangerous at once. And he was a beta, and Lan Wangji, like any alpha, was destined for a match with an omega, whose sweet, yielding temperament would naturally call forth in him a complementary tenderness and a fierce urge to protect and provide.

But it was not utterly unorthodox to desire a beta – someone more lively and spirited, someone who might playact at resistance before yielding eagerly.

Lan Wangji had such thoughts. Was cursed with such thoughts, constantly, at inappropriate times, with mortifying results. But those were not his only thoughts about Wei Wuxian. Sometimes…

Sometimes he imagined a resistance greater than mere playacting. He would return to the Jingshi after sparring practice and lose himself in fantasies of a battle that ended in a hotter, filthier collision of bodies. One in which Wei Wuxian fought tooth and nail, and did not simply allow Lan Wangji to take his prize.

They still ended the same way, of course. Wei Wuxian on his knees, on his back, moaning with pleasure as Lan Wangji possessed him.

Nevertheless.

It was not orthodox. It was not right. And no amount of meditation in the Cold Springs or anywhere else could seem to cure him of it.

It’s ridiculous how bad that is compared to what’s in the final version. And you can tell that the final version of LWJ’s character is waaaay more repressed than this.

Another thing that changed about the story’s structure was that I was originally going to follow the timeline of the drama exactly, meaning that LWJ’s conversation with LXC about whether the world is orderly would take place right after the strategy meeting and right before the courtyard fight. Abandoning that fidelity to canon—the “is the world orderly” convo now takes place at a totally different time and actually takes place out in the field rather than in the Unclean Realm—really unlocked this story and was a huge breakthrough for me.

Before that breakthrough, though, I had two scenes in a row that end on LWJ orgasming and then feeling horrified: the “LWJ gets blood on his mouth from his sleeve” bit and the dream scene that ends with LWJ waking and remembering his rut.  I couldn’t have those two scenes adjoining—they were too similar—so I needed another scene to go between them. In the finished fic, that is where the “is the world orderly” scene takes place, which is perfect thematically, perfect for character development, and does a great job of varying the content of the scenes. But originally, I thought I needed to cook up a new scene for that purpose, and I came up with the following. Content warning for attempted rape.

A LAN CULTIVATOR TRIES TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A PRISONER OF WAR. LAN WANGJI HAPPENS UPON THIS.

“Kneel,” he says.

She is an alpha, as he is – built for dominance. But her strength is as nothing compared to his. Her attempt at struggle is an eyeblink; then, her knees hit the ground.

“Draw your sword,” Lan Wangji commands. She does.

“Place the blade against your left wrist.”

Her eyes are wide with terror as her own hand, unwillingly, places the edge of her sword against her wrist. “Lan-er-gongzi,” she bleats.

His fury has turned to ice. Holding her gaze, he says quietly, “Do you doubt that I could make you strike?”

She shakes her head. Tears are streaming from the corners of her eyes.

“You did not succeed in your aim,” he says. “Thus, you may keep your hand. This time. No second chance.”

“Yes, Lan-er-gongzi,” she whispers. “Thank you, Lan-er-gongzi.”

If she survives the war, he will have her expelled from the sect. But, though the thought tastes bitter at the back of his tongue, they cannot afford to lose any soldiers now. “Go,” he orders, and she stumbles to her feet and leaves.

When she is gone, the Wen prisoner looks up at him. Her eyes are empty. When he steps toward her, she flinches.

“I will not harm you,” he says.

“You challenged for me, and you won,” she replies, voice dull. “I know what happens next.”

“No,” Lan Wangji says. He helps her to her feet.

When he begins to lead her back to the pen where the prisoners are held before transfer, she begins to struggle in her chains. A pitiful wisp of scent, tinged with seduction but mostly redolent of fear, wafts toward him. “You can,” she says, “I won’t fight, I—you’ve never had an alpha, right? It’s—it doesn’t make you a pervert, if you’re the one on top. I’ll let you—”

Lan Wangji stops, and captures her gaze. With the full force of his scent, he demands, “Why?”

She fights the compulsion. Fights it longer than she fought Lan Xihu’s. Whatever she is protecting is worth more to her than her body… but Lan Wangji knew that. After an impressive handful of heartbeats, she sags.

“My mate,” she whispers. The syllables are mangled – she is trying to bite her lips shut. “He’s there.” Her gaze flicks toward the prisoner pen. “Don’t hurt him,” she begs. Her scent is heavy with hopelessness.

I liked this because it hit some worldbuilding notes that touch on unanswered questions (“if it’s so stigmatized for an alpha to be penetrated, what about female alphas, Dea?”) and emphasize some points that the reader might otherwise overlook (the stigma of alpha/alpha pairing, what an alpha’s compulsion looks like outside of a sexy setting and how it would function socially, how a challenge works). But this is too far outside canon, in a way that doesn’t serve the themes or the character development. The very fact that it introduces two OCs was a sign that it wasn’t a good fit.

The “is the world orderly” scene in the final version ends pretty quickly; this was the original ending, starting after LXC gives his answer:

Lan Wangji feels a wash of shock—and then, fleetingly, rage: now, after twenty years of placing the rules at the center of our lives, you dare to say—

But to call it rage is to give the anger false dignity; it is, he realizes, nothing more the temper tantrum of a child denied an expected treat. When he asked the question, he expected a particular answer—one that would be safe, and comfortable—but that does not make it Lan Xichen’s responsibility to give it to him.

When Lan Wangji asked the question, he had expected the answer to be “yes.” That was what he had been taught since his birth—by Lan Xichen first and best. He had thought that Lan Xichen’s words would ground him; instead, he feels as if what little foundation he had left has been ripped away.

But it has the weight of truth. He cannot dismiss it, even as it frightens him.

Lan Xichen steps closer; his gaze is warm with sympathy. “Wangji…”

Lan Wangji realizes that if his brother asks him about Wei Ying again, now, he will tell the truth. He must not, but he will. He stares at his brother in mute desperation, almost lightheaded with dread.

Lan Xichen pauses. Rests his lips together. Then, with a soft puff of almost-scentless air, he sighs. “It is after hai shi,” he says, with undeserved mercy.

“Wangji will leave Xiongzhang to his rest.”

Parts of this remain in the final version—and those are the important parts. The rest was unnecessary.

Okay, then in the soup scene, there was this, which was again meant to establish more how alpha commands work:

She is cut off before she can finish speaking.

“Tell me what happened,” Wei Ying says—no, commands, with the full force of his scent behind it. Lan Wangji stares at him in shock.

The order hits Luo Qingyang with such force that she rocks backward on her feet. Nevertheless, she presses her lips together and sucks in a desperate breath through her nose. It is an impressive effort, but it will not last long.

“Tell him,” Jin Zixuan says, wiping blood from the corner of his mouth. Luo Qingyang takes another deep inhale – this one of relief.

But this ground is covered in LWJ’s flashback about compelling WWX to make copies and so forth in CR, and by the scene where LWJ almost compels Jiang Cheng, so it was redundant—and it’s a distraction.

From here on out, everything is cut from the sex scene, which comprises about half the fic.

First, I had been racking my brain figuring out where they were going to get lubricant, and after finally reaching an answer, I had WWX recreate my thought process:

Abruptly, Wei Ying climbs off of him and begins to search the house. “A blacksmith must have—have sword oil, or—cooking oil…” His movements are jerky; frenetic. His hands are shaking.

“We stripped the town of anything of use,” Lan Wangji says, lifting himself up on his elbows to watch in confusion as Wei Ying stalks from wall to wall opening cabinets and boxes. “There will be no sword oil, or oil for cooking or lamps—”

“Lamps.” Wei Ying freezes, then stumbles toward the door. He reaches up, then tosses his prizes to Lan Wangji: candle ends from used-up candles. “Tallow,” he says; clever, clever Wei Ying, even in the grip of instincts that would crush a lesser man.

But why—

“You don’t know, do you?” Wei Ying exasperated. “All your big talk about how you want—”

I felt so fucking clever. I was patting myself on the back, smug af.

Then I realized they have qiankun sleeves. Duhhhhhhh.

This next bit came after LWJ first sees WWX’s scars.

But Wei Ying is not looking at him. He is looking down at himself, as if seeing his own scars for the first time. His hands come up to drape over his shoulders and he looks, for a moment, self-conscious.

Then his face turns hard. “Like what you see?” he asks – a challenge.

But the answer is easy.

“Wei Ying. Breathe.”

Wei Ying inhales, surely catching the scent of Lan Wangji’s arousal. His eyes go wide and flick to Lan Wangji’s face. “You—”

“Touch me,” says Lan Wangji.

I always love me some WWX insecurity, but by this point, having LWJ reassure WWX that he really was wanted was getting repetitive.

And then! One of the last things I did in the fic was cut this next piece. I so liked the idea of WWX coming all over LWJ as a possessive gesture before we segue into the penetration section, and this was one of the first scenes I wrote for the fic, but I could not figure out a satisfying way to get in to it that wasn’t repetitive/redundant of other themes in the sex scene (here, WWX’s possessiveness). Worse, this was contributing to this seesaw thing where LWJ kept getting brought in and out of subspace, in and out, in and out, which is confusing for the reader – I don’t want people thinking, “Wait, is he mentally with-it right now or not?” That should always be clear, and this chunk of the scene was sabotaging that goal:

“I’ve never,” he breathes into Lan Wangji’s temple, face hidden. His hips roll, down, down – the rhythm plays in time with Lan Wangji’s heartbeat. “Have you?” he asks, pushing himself up to watch Lan Wangji’s face.

Lan Wangji swallows. “Never.”

Wei Ying’s answering smile is wolfish. He leans down again, until his lips are pressed against the shell of Lan Wangji’s ear.

“I thought so,” he says, low and satisfied. His breathing is harsh; the rasp of it makes Lan Wangji shiver. “That means you’re—”

He breaks off, bowing his spine and sucking in a deep breath. He bites the join of Lan Wangji’s neck and shoulder, then laps at the mark he’s made. His hips begin to work faster; the drag of his cock against Lan Wangji’s is unbearably good.

“I’ll show you,” Wei Ying murmurs, eyes unfocused and cheeks flushed. His thrusts are becoming frantic. “Let me show you now, I’ll make you see, make you feel it—”

“Please,” Lan Wangji begs. His mind has spun into silk again, lying here beneath Wei Ying, his body Wei Ying’s to use. Whatever Wei Ying wants to give him, Lan Wangji will take. He wants to. He wants that more than anything.

Wei Ying is panting now, face pressed to Lan Wangji’s skin. “You’re so—I never knew, Lan Zhan—ah!”

Hot wetness floods the space between their bodies – one thick spurt, then another, and another, Wei Ying emptying his knot with his teeth buried in Lan Wangji’s shoulder.

For the space of two shuddering breaths, Wei Ying is still.

Then he lifts his head. His eyes are full of fire.

“Up,” he says, and when Lan Wangji is not quick enough to push himself up on his elbows, Wei Ying fists a hand in his hair and drags his head up. “Look,” he demands. “Look.”

Lan Wangji obeys: looks down at what Wei Ying has given him.

Spend is splashed across his body; smeared on his still-hard cock; pooled on his belly; dripping over the edge and down his sides.

Even in his most depraved fantasies, Lan Wangji never imagined this. He lifts a hand, dazed, to trace a curve through the mess. He thinks about licking his fingers; but oh, he wants Wei Ying to feed it to him instead.

“What do you see?” Wei Ying demands.

Speaking is difficult, with his mind so spun-soft. “Yours,” is all Lan Wangji can manage. “Yours.”

Wei Ying makes a pleased hum. “Yes. Mine.”

Against his thigh, Lan Wangji can feel Wei Ying beginning to grow hard again.

I also did a lot of takes of the fingering sequence.

Lan Wangji forces himself to control his breathing – to release the muscles of his hips, so tight they had begun to ache like a clenched fist. The pain is less now that the initial shock is past, he can bear it well—

And then—there is more, suddenly – another finger, it must be, just when the first had begun to feel like something less than an invasion. Lan Wangji closes his eyes, tries to return to his controlled breath.

But his next inhale carries the burnt-hair scent of frustration. “Stop fighting me,” Wei Ying growls

That hurts. “I am not, I am trying—”

Pause.

“Have you ever done this? To yourself?”

Lan Wangji shakes his head.

Wei Ying squeezes his eyes shut. His left hand is bruise-tight on Lan Wangji’s thigh. “You’ve never. You’ve. How.”

“I was. Afraid.”

“Afraid.” Wei Ying bleak, feeling like a monster again.

“Of—of myself. Of liking it. Of what that would mean.”

Bitter laugh. “Well. No need to be afraid of liking it, I guess.”

Lan Wangji shakes his head. “Wei Ying. I need…”

Intent. “What do you need?”

“Make me,” Lan Wangji whispers.

“Make you.” Gaze sharpens. “Lan Zhan ah, Lan Zhan.” Smile. Alpha pheromones, super jacked-up in rut: “Spread your legs. Good. Now. Let me in.”

I really liked the “Afraid, of what, of liking it, no need to be afraid of liking it I guess” aspect of this, like really really liked it, but it made an already long sex scene so long, and also I decided after this that LWJ would have fingered himself during his last rut, so this didn’t fit the chronology anymore.

Finally, we have the first draft of the final conversation, back when it would have taken place in the blacksmith’s house.

“I can’t go to Gusu with you.”

LWJ FEELING SUPER BETRAYED.

“Not yet,” Wei Ying amends. “They need me, Lan Zhan.”

He means the sects; the allies. The people who look at him with suspicion while they use him.

“Call it arrogance,” says Wei Ying, looking up at the ceiling. “But I know. They can’t win this war without me.”

It is not arrogance. He is correct. Lan Wangji knows this.

“But if you still want to help me…”

Lan Wangji stiffens at the word if – before he can object, Wei Ying continues.

“I’ll… I’ll let you. I promise.”

Lan Wangji inhales slowly. His heart, which raced before, settles into a grateful rhythm.

“Thank you,” he says.

Isn’t it so vague, so general, compared to the final version? That's what stands out to me, anyway. One of my favorite John Hodgman aphorisms is “Specificity is the soul of narrative”—thankfully, I got there in the end!

Thanks for reading!

[weirdocat83]

obsessed with your tags, talk mdzs at me pls

Uh.

1) thank you, I really just put the random thoughts I have in the tags and/or accidentally steal other people’s tags

2) some thoughts about mdzs below the cut (I have a lot of thoughts about this novel) ye ask any ye shall receive. If you want to hear my thoughts on something specific plz ask :3

• My fav characters in MDZS are Wei Wuxian and Nie Huaisang. I love how WWX can be very complicated when he wants to be and has many layers and sides to him. Like, the fandom likes to simplify his character to someone self deprecating but always smiling but he is very complex. He acknowledges his faults and has only tried to do what he deemed right at the time even if he regrets what he does in hindsight. He isn’t infallible. He literally tortured a man to death (even if it felt right to do it considering said man orchestrated a massacre and tossed him into a literal pit of suffering to die in) and was a major player in a WAR. He’s probably killed more than he can count. I feel like a lot of people forget that the main cast is a bunch of war heroes that must’ve had insane kill counts. Including LWJ. It’s quite tragic that none of them really had any good authority figures to lead them seeing as the majority of them were at most 20~30ish and cultivators usually live extremely long lives (at least, that’s my assumption) anyhow, WWX is very aware of his faults, especially post-resurrection as he did kinda fuck up when he accidentally killed JZX. He acknowledges that and makes an effort to apologize and atone. That being said, his faults don’t stop him from being confident and above all likable. Yes he can be annoying but he does know how to behave himself probably better than most (unlike what many members of the fandom like to think). He knows his position well and that it is incredibly precarious (in both lives) but still manages to fit in well enough with essentially nobility that he is good competition for the best in his generation. He is a genius and a great leader and that isn’t stressed enough. Though I think one of the small details in his character that I think gets overlooked is how he “parents” A-Yuan in the burial mounds. Because for as immature as he is when he’s burying A-Yuan in the ground, he also knows that he isn’t the only one caring for A-Yuan and therefore is allowed to be silly but when they’re out at the market and A-Yuan asks for a toy he makes the mature decision to save his money (although LWJ spoils the kid immediately after). This reflects a lot on WWX because it shows he can be very mature when he needs to be but when he doesn’t need to be he’ll happily rely on others. It also reflects on his upbringing showing he knows how important money is (in contrast to the lans who are shown on various occasions to not really think about money much) Personally I love his character because he seems like a person I’d get along with if he were real (which, the incredible writing makes his seems very realistic) meanwhile my other favorite, Nie Huaisang, I love because he is misleading. Some of my favorite fictional characters are very misleading because of the masks they put up to fool people to achieve their goals. How a character will know more than they should but not let anyone know until the moment is right. NHS is someone who is easily underestimated because he seems helpless and unintelligent. And yeah, for a majority of his life he really didn’t care to further his education or really practice cultivation but later he takes this preconceived notion that everyone has of him and uses it to his advantage so nobody suspects a thing while he plans JGY’s downfall. It’s a scarily intelligent move and I think the fact that he takes pleasure in looking at art/books really adds to the fact of how intelligent he is. Most people see his art as pointless hobbies but I think it says a lot about the qualities of his character. I think a lot of people take for granted the patience it takes to make good art or the intelligence it takes to appreciate good literature. So when NHS's older brother dies under mysterious circumstances that just so happen to help the Jins? of course he catches on! He proceeds to keep his enemy close for over a decade until he finally gets his moment of revenge. Which, to me? Props, man. plus only one person even realizes what happened. WWX. 

Some things I don’t particularly like about MDZS (some people may yell at me for this and I'm sorry but this is my opinion): 

- how weird the yi city arc felt? It feels very out of place as we go on this whole journey to learn about all these people and what happened to them but after that they are pretty much no longer relevant. I only found out later that the yi city arc was initially intended to be its own story. So that might be why.

- how certain things are just *left* and never touched on again? We hear all this stuff about baoshan sanren but we never see her or really learn much about her at all. Similarly, Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji’s parents? We hear all these things about them but never learn much at all. Which is weird all things considered when you look at it. It feels like a lot of background info for not much payoff. Yes, it gives us a lot of vital information on why things played out the way they did but it doesn’t stop the feeling that there should’ve been more. Part of me appreciated it though because it gives us no more information than the characters really have. Just passing information that is common knowledge but never really looked into just like many actual people have.

- how everything ended off. So we have that whole scene at the temple and then everything just… calms down? They all go home??? It felt anticlimactic. Especially with Nie Huaisang’s character as (in the novel at least) it sets him up to be the next chief cultivator despite being just as, if not more, sneaky than Jin Guangyao. And that’s probably intentional. The chief cultivator position was likely never meant to be a position of absolute good. It’s politics. But it is a bit weird that we never really see what happens to Nie Huaisang after, post revenge and all. 

[ninjakk]

I'm the anon who's been reading ur SWaK fic! Thank you for answering the qi deviation question. it's making me see mdzs in a whole new light. I recently saw a post (askSythe on here) about the significance of the blood pool and how throwing bodies in there removes them from the reincarnation cycle and that's what the clans did to the Wen Remnants and JC is rumored to have led this siege and my heart HURTS. continuing this in next ask - 

Hey there anon 👋🏻

I'm glad you're enjoying my fic ☺️

As for the post you are referencing, I had not come across this until you mentioned it in your ask and have since went in search of it in order to reply. From what I can gather from the notes, it seems to have garnered a lot of controversy and subsequent backlash against the person who posted it originally.

I don't want to criticise other people's posts (especially when they have already received so much negativity from it), but with all due respect, I don't feel this was MXTXs intention with the blood pool. There's no mention of it in any version I have and I've also had my friend check the entire original novel for the phrase '永不超生', which is quoted in the original post, and we can't locate that in the Chinese text either. Regardless of that, I don't feel such a claim fits with the rest of the novel.

I could be completely wrong, as it's not something I've really thought about, nor do I have the cultural knowledge of the specific concept the original post is referring to. But, if the Wen remnants were forever barred from reincarnating due to their corpses being thrown into and essentially trapped in an apparent 'unbreakable prison' (which they managed to escape), why would WWX set an array around the blood pool to stop corpses escaping when he lived there back in his first life? 🤔 How were all the corpses able to crawl out and run amok the minute a rampaging WN broke the seal around the pool? It just doesn't make much sense to do that if the fierce corpses residing within are already trapped there.

There's also the fact WWX uses the blood pool as well. Which makes me question this theory even more so. It goes against WWX's character and ethics to stop souls from reincarnating, when his very cultivation method involves empathy and 'spending' resentment so the entities can move on. Granted, WWX used the blood pool to nurture corpses resentment so he was able to harness it and direct it where required - in this case, I think it's most likely to replenish those guarding the base of the burial mounds and keeping the Wen remnants safe. In theory, the corpses residing there would eventually use up their resentment and their souls would move on. Hence the need for a supply of new fierce corpses he can utilise - which he helps move on in turn. I really don't think WWX would do such a thing if the blood pool was anything other than a collection of water that held strong resentment due to being contaminated by the many corpses already present in its depths. If anything, it's a similar situation to when he found the sword in the Xuanwu of Slaughter's stomach, which had been practically marinating in all the resentment of the beast's past victims.

Obviously the Wen remnants were unable to move on after being mercilessly slaughtered, but that is simply because they were denied a proper burial and unjustly murdered in what was a most violent, unprovoked attack. Once the blood corpses had spent their lingering resentment, saving the very people who had killed them and the man who tried so hard to protect them, they finally moved on and turned to ash - which WN promptly collected to ensure they could finally be put to rest respectfully, as they should have been long ago. I see no indication that they would not move on because they were left in the blood pool specifically.

Of course, the way the cultivators involved in the siege not only murdered innocent people, but then treated their victims corpses with such disgusting disrespect is utterly appalling. Even though there is no evidence that the blood pool acted as a type of supernatural prison of sorts, it does not subtract from what the cultivators did. They still made sure the Wen remnants could not rest in peace by their heartless actions regardless.

As for JCs involvement in the siege, it's not actually a rumour that he led the siege, he most certainly, unequivocally did. It's actually outright stated a few times in the novel. Even when WN mentioned as such, WWX did not correct him on that specific accusation. Later still JGY also mentions JCs involvement, right in front of the man in question no less, with no argument to the contrary. Finally, MXTX has also spoken about JCs involvement in leading the siege and confirmed he had indeed formulated a plan based on WWX's weaknesses, as the text suggests. He was very much the driving force of the whole thing, despite knowing the Wen remnants consisted of innocent people who were either weak, old, or a toddler. He is responsible for many people being brutally murdered and shows no remorse for it either - which speaks volumes about his character.

[en-d-d]

So, this is my first post, so hello everyone! I don't really know how to properly navigate this platform just yet, but I'm sure I will figure it out, so please bear with me.

Having said that, unfortunately, I've come here today to rant a little on social media about things that make me borderline insane just from listening to. Most specifically, from MTXT's works. (Because if I ever see another wrong characterization for those fictional people I've became very attached to, I'm actually going to go mad.)

(This is not meant to be an attack of any sorts, I'm just a teenager on social media pulling my nerves into writing because who knows, maybe I can finally be at peace then.)

Let's start then!

Xie Lian is not owo small cutie or sum, and if I hear that one time... my man may be short, but he could fight off almost anyone, just thanos clapping people out of existence. He's also very insane and very horny about the Calamity attached to his hip. My guy is pretty smart and also just kinda gives patient auntie vibes (you know, that auntie that can see beyond everyone's bull but choses not to).

And if I already started with TGCF, may as well continue with it. Hua Cheng is a switch and you can't convince me otherwise. (If his Dianxia wanted to top, he would be as elated as he would be if Dianxia wanted to bottom. My man doesn't care.)

Luo Binge being referred as a white lotus and people not knowing what it means ("In Chinese internet novels, the term "white lotus" refers to a character who appears innocent, naive, and pure on the surface but uses this reputation to backstab, blame, or sling mud on others.") (I believe maybe people confuse this with the other meanings of the white lotus, like, actually naive or pure in character, but those are obliviously not what they mean in the chinese novels)

Shen Yuan is Kim Dokja, but chinese (or maybe KD is SY but korean)

Lan Wangji did not like Wei Wuxian despite him being 'evil', he loved him exactly because he isn't evil. I can't stress this enough. If wwx was a actually bad person, lwj would not hesitate to cut his head off and be done with the matter. Whenever I see someone saying something about him liking wwx even if he's evil, I'm slowly loosing my mind, bcz no, lwj is not such a shallow person, to be attracted to someone based purely on looks (and we do know this bcz he loves wwx in mxy's body just as much as he loved him in his original body.)

Now, we're moving into a territory I like exploring. I just want to start this off saying that I don't like Jiang Wanyin. I just don't care very much about him and I find him annoying as a person. With that being said, I'm a little miffed with fellow jc dislikers bcz they sometimes invent some things up about him or such shenanigans. Like. Man, you do not need to invent things to hate abt him, there are already plenty of them. I'm pretty unbiased when it comes to actual judgements about others. I will protect someone if the points made about them is incorrect as much as I will point out every thing they actually did bad.

And the next point is still abt jc (wow, what a surprise) just bcz, honest to god, a lot of his fans are straight up annoying. I've said it. A lot of y'all are hella annoying. (Not to say that there exist a lor of annoying fans for other characters, it's just that jc has a very high number of them) Some of the ones I don't find bad are those that like him just becouse of how bad of a person he is. I can respect that. What I can't respect is another owo he's innocent and traumatized and a tsundere and everything is wwx's fault owo jc fan. Fam, did we read the same book, or has media really rotten our colective brain that much??

(I believe I have more comments on this jc topic, but my brain is starting to hurt.)

And the last one is Wei Wuxian, probably the most controversial character in all of MTXT's novels. First of all, I have to be clear about this, but in all of this post, I'm purely referring to the characters from the books, not the other adaptations. This is important, bcz the adaptations further skewed wwx's image in the fandom.

I have saved him for least because of just how much things tick me off in this fandom when discussing wwx in special.

Disclaimer that I sincerely believe that you should enjoy and do art and fanfiction of characters however you want. If you want wwx to be, idk, a demon that terrorizes people and breaks lwj's heart and then jc comes and saves the situation from the evil patriarch and then french kisses Lan Xichen, then go ahead, idc (Unless you say he's owo, you have no excuse that would allow you to do that unless you're a child, and if you are, then you shouldn't even be here). But I draw the line when people lie about canon characterizations.

And there is just so much misconceptions on wwx's character that I would need an essay just to compose a list of them. They range from huge details that somehow miss people like how their neurons miss firing, to small details, like his handwriting (I believe the novel said it was cursive, not messy, like how almost all the fandom has apparently mutually agreed on. Do corect me if I'm wrong on this, some things are lost from translation to translation)

I will be discussing just some of them here. Maybe I will do another post where I go in more detail, we will see.

ADHD Wei Wuxian. The people that believe wwx has ADHD should probably reread the novel, bcz that characterization comes mostly from CQL. In the novel, wwx is a very chill guy that can stay in one place perfectly fine. I will not go into more details, just read the novel.

Wei Wuxian is the reason for the Jiang's collapse. Bull statement, everytime I see it, well, I go a little more insane. If you know a little politics, you would realize the Jiangs were next on the list for sure. Why, you would ask. The Lans already burnt themselves to the ground. The Nies have a fortress for a sect. The Jins are almost-not-exactly allies with the Wens. Now, guess who is the most unfavorably positioned gentry sect (lakes are not a good strategic spot), with lax protection (how did the Wens just march in like that like what) and a little too carele leader (Jiang Fenmiang really thought the Wens will give them back the swords after that whole disaster that was the indoctrination? Really??). Oh! I think I know who it is! And maybe you guessed it too. Glad we're on the same page.

Now, wwx being the reason why jc lost his core. Very many people already came to their own conclusion on why jc gave himself up. Brotherly affection, suicidal thoughts or just straight up idiocy. Whatever you believe, it's fine with me (but I do have a brother and I can assure you, wwx and jc never really seemed like brothers to me. They are a little too far to the left to be considered brothers, but this is my opinion, take it however you will). So, was it wwx's fault?

We're finally getting into the juicy stuff. The blame game. I hate it with my being, still, as long as I'm in fandoms, I must persist. My answer is yes & no. Did wwx deliberately made it so jc would be captured? Of course not. Did it still happened? Unfortunately, yes. To go deeper, we will look a little at fate. There are some things that are outside of our control. As much as we prepare, some things will still blow us over. So the definite answer is no. Jc made the decision to be seen by the Wens. It might sound callous , but the decisions you make are yours, even if you protect someone's life or not. Wwx did not ask to be protected. In conclusions, it's not his fault.

And that is a very good statement to make, seeing as we got to the core transfer. People often criticize wwx for giving non-consensualy his core to jc. I always thought it as a weird thing to hate him about, but whatever, I still shall address it. I will start with an exemple. If you loved someone very much, and they would die if they don't get, idk, a new arm (maybe think of something less inconspicuous, but you understand the ideea) they would die. You are the single person that can do it. But you're sure that if someone told your loved one that you would give it, they would refuze it. Are you still going to give your arm? Will you let your loved one die? Knowing that you can help?

And for those that say jc was not on the brink of death. He was suicidal. He would not have resisted a week with the shame of inferiority plus all the trauma that the Lotus Pier massacre was, combined. 'Regaining' his core might have actually made him feel better, like he beat the odds, like he has another chance. That's also why wwx never told him he gave him his core. Bcz he knew jc would not take it easy, finding out that all his accomplishments were thanks to wwx's sacrifice. Because jc has a big ego that's clearly evident through the story.

Anyways, let's continue.

Ghostly Cultivation. It's more popularity used the Demonic Cultivation term, but they are not the same think for Christ's sake. Modao Zushi does mean The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, however the title is for click bait. In the actual novel, I believe wwx talks abt ghostly cultivation, not demonic. It was probably lost in translations.

I don't think I need to explain how wwx needed guidao to escape the Burial Mounds, so at least half of my job is already done. Now I go into dangerous territory however, bcz guidao is not expended upon. Still, I would rather listen to wwx when it's about, you know, the path he himself created?

To explain my stance, we would need to go deeper into the novel's points. A novel can have multiple themes, ranging from obvious ones, like love, family, to obscure ones, like, the importance of standing up for oneself (not the best exemple, but I believe y'all understand what I mean).

I'm someone that loves thinking abt MDZS. It's my dearest. So, I tend to analyze it pretty often. And the themes I usually get are things like 'the danger of hearsay and mob mentality', 'the importance of standing true to your ideals', 'the inherit unpredictability of life' and so on, and so on.

Anyways, what does that have to do with guidao? Well, everything, I believe. The MDZS world has a mentality resembling that of the curent China. Or well, the China of when MXTX wrote the novel. If you know some history, I believe you can connect the similarities. What does that mean then?

Wwx is someone that does not fallow the path set by the ancestors. He creates his own. When the cultivators see that, they are revolted. Becouse everything that strays from the 'right' path must surely be evil. And so, after Wen Ruohan, the Jins paint him as the new anarchist, and the rest is history.

Now, I would actually love to continue, but I've been typing nonstop for hours now, I need to stop. I will continue my points in another post, bcz I still have a lot of them.

Thanks for reading, and have a wonderful day 💐

[danmei-confessions]

sometimes it seems like people in danmei (specifically mxtx) fandoms tend to forget that the characters are fictional, and liking two characters that hate/hurt each other doesn't mean that you're..... betraying either character? i see this in a lot of jc/jgy/sj discourse that implies that because they're a villain or they betrayed/hurt the mc that you shouldn't be emotionally attached to them, as if emotional attachment means i automatically forgive everything they did? it's possible to like a character that did something wrong without agreeing with their actions, and you don't have to retcon them as either Perfectly Correct or Morally Corrupt in order to justify your feelings about them. it's not like enjoying character A means i automatically dislike character B either. on top of all this, you don't always have to agree with or prioritize the emotions of the mc, because the reader is not the main character. nothing we do as readers, even fanworks like fanfic or meta posts, can actually change canon, so why does it matter??

i keep thinking of this in the context of wei wuxian and jin guangyao from mdzs. one of the plot points of mdzs is that while the cultivation world's rumors caused wwx to be unfairly villainized and he wasn't actually evil, he definitely DID do some fucked up things, and we can't shove him (or anybody!) into black and white Good and Bad boxes. when jgy is revealed to be the villain at the end of the books, wwx actually points out in his narration that while jgy did do some very bad things, he wasn't Purely Evil the whole time, and the public opinion suddenly absolving wwx of EVERYTHING while the evils of the world are blamed on jgy now is NOT A GOOD THING TO BE DOING. that's one of the big morals of mdzs. and many readers still like wei wuxian – why can't some readers like jin guangyao too? even if they WERE morally homogeneous, it just seems so bizarre that the morals of fictional characters are weighed so heavily against real life people.

idk. i'm just sick and tired of people getting dogpiled for the crime of either liking or disliking a fictional character, and i wish people would just agree to disagree and move on. block people if you want to, but jesus christ.

.

[temnurus]

More Wangxian Faves: Post-Canon & Canon Divergent

This list was made to honor the request in the notes on my WWX recs post from @100percentserenity for some more fics featuring Wei Ying set in canon or canon divergent fics. Now, not all of these are strictly from his POV, but they all feature him at his quick-witted, charming, & hopelessly oblivious best. Canon divergent can be a pretty wide category, so do keep that in mind if you see a rec & think, "This isn't very canonical.." Haha. There are two repeats from my first Wangxian rec list, but they fit the ask & are both excellent & worth mentioning twice! Now, in no particular order, may I recommend:

Far Away You Are by cqlorphan (E, 17,358)

Thoughts: I absolutely loved the idea of the esteemed Hanguan-jun being this not-so-secret purveyor of comfort hugs & heartache advice. Wei Ying’s shock upon finding this out was so funny I couldn’t help but laugh, & my amusement only intensified when he made the scary Yiling Laozu face while asking who broke Lan Zhan’s heart, only to be told it was him who’d done so. I wanted to hug all the Juniors myself. They’re all so very precious. This was a lovely story where very little hurt in the end, & sometimes that’s just nice after the gut punch that canon gives us.

my age has never made me wise by idrilka (E, 63,439)

Thoughts: I absolutely loved this. It was pretty CQL (The Untamed) compliant & told the post-canon story of Wei Ying wandering alone as a rogue cultivator after the events of the show. Of course he was pining after his zhiji the entire time, so when he heard gossip that the Chief Cultivator might be married by summer's end it nearly undid him. The angst was excruciating, but One Brain Cell WWX Strikes Again fics somehow always manage to be fun at the same time. I've read several post-canon, wandering Wei Ying stories, & this one was particularly good.

Not What We May Be by brooklinegirl (E, 29,222)

Thoughts: I love Wei Ying’s cleverness in this. He’s his usual irreverent, chaotic, charming self, & I never get tired of how wonderfully his mind works. The odd phenomenon occurring in the town he’s staying in was an interesting mystery to solve, & I had to laugh when Lan Zhan arrived with the usual Lan Juniors ensemble in tow. Watching them all work together to figure out how to fix the issue while also dealing with the healthy side helping of oblivious Wei Ying & searing sexual tension between him & Lan Zhan was a fun treat.

All Caught Up by brooklinegirl (E, 36,934)

Thoughts: Wei Ying proposing to Lan Zhan to get him out of an arranged marriage he didn’t want is so something he’d do. There is no character more quintessentially chaotic good than Wei Ying. You can’t change my mind. The practice kissing was a lovely regular feature from this author, & my particular favorite thing in this fic was Nie Huaisang’s cameo as their pseudo wedding planner with his classic meddling while insisting he’s useless shenanigans. This was super cute. I liked it a lot.

love, in fire and blood by cicer (E, 360,042)

Thoughts: This was an example of a cool MDZS-specific trope I hadn't seen before, & in it Wei Ying, the infamous Yiling Patriarch, was a cultivator who had achieved immortality (aka, he's OP as fuck but in a fun way). The great sects enlisted his help to win the Sunshot Campaign, & what did he demand in return? Lan Zhan's hand in marriage, of course! It was a fantastic slow burn in which poor Lan Zhan suffered the mortifying ordeal of falling in love with his own husband. An amazing & complex plot, chock-full of angsty goodness.

Birthday Party by waffles_4_breakfast (E, 100,123)

Thoughts: I loved the idea that Wei Ying would actually get to attend Jin Ling's one month celebration, but I was, of course, still concerned about the continued danger he'd be in. This fic nicely showcased Wei Ying's sharp wit, charm, & ever-present sass. I also loved his dramatics when it came to his interactions with Lan Zhan (and in general, of course, haha), but their sweetness together was ultimately my favorite thing about them. The continued threat to Wei Ying's life & all the plotting surrounding it was interesting, but the best things about this fic were the characters & their bonds with each other.

Fentao-laoshi's Guide to Cut-Sleeve Pleasures by occultings (E, 31,775)

Thoughts: This was set during the Cloud Recesses Study Arc, & it was so, so good. The sexual tension between them was just simmering the entire time, & the idea of them “practicing for marriage” on each other was fucking hilarious. Their banter was top notch, & I absolutely loved Lan Zhan’s nearly overwhelming desperation for Wei Ying, not to mention Wei Ying’s bullshit getting him in over his head (as usual, but this time in a fun way, haha). The feelings were actually very sweet, too. I enjoyed this a lot.

wide enough and wild by impossibletruths (E, 64,120)

Thoughts: I love the tag “Noping Out Of Society With Your Boyfriend And Your 50 Wen Refugees: The Novel”. It made me laugh before I’d even started the fic. While this was set during the time period in which Wei Ying frees the Wen refugees, they didn’t end up in Yiling this time. I won’t get too specific, but they still ended up rebuilding their own little settlement & farming to survive, basically. Lan Zhan found them & decided to stay. The slow burn was so good, & I loved the pining in particular. I cried a couple of times in this. It really was just that good.

your problem as a mountain. by cupofwater (E, 30,989)

Thoughts: It was so cute to see the difference between Wei Ying’s & Nie Huaisang’s fantasies, & Wei Ying’s turning out to be more vanilla & romantic in nature absolutely cracked me up. I nearly hurt myself laughing when Nie Mingjue sent Lan Zhan some of the letters by mistake, & I was delighted by Lan Zhan’s reaction. I won’t spoil it, but the smut was lovely & despite the misunderstanding our boys definitely both got their happy ending, haha.

The Vermilion Ribbon by Unforth (E, 233,368)

Thoughts: This sat on my Marked For Later list on AO3 for the longest time, & I really did myself a disservice by not reading it sooner. It was absolutely fantastic. The world-building, pacing, & intricate plot were all brilliantly done, & Wei Ying being in the Wen clan was nothing like I imagined it was going to be in this. Instead of his core family being the Jiangs, we get Wen Qing in Jiang Yanli’s role & Wen Ning in Jiang Cheng’s. Now I’ll warn you that this got super heavy in some places, so mind those tags & take care of yourselves. Nothing was graphic enough that I had to stop reading, but it didn’t shy away from the serious subject matter it covered either. The whole fic was a real emotional roller coaster, & I can’t recommend it highly enough.

[lansplaining]

the most boring MDZS fans are the ones who implement their modern, western fucking moralities, ethics, definitions, etc. onto MDZS and hold that as canon and argue with people, slandering them for not having any empathy like it's not just a fictional story that you should be interpreting and reading things through their universe and culture. we KNOW many things are unacceptable but that's not how it works. if wearing clothes socks up is the norm and you decide to do it a different way, it challenges the norm, and you will get stares, and if serious enough, you will be brought down

debates can certainly take place regarding what is right and wrong but not in canon-verse where blood fueds are very much a real thing, and by saying that it's cruel and "i don't agree with it", it's taking away the reasonings as to why the sects are unwilling to let the wen remnants live freely (there's more to it but that's another thing). a reader not wanting blood feuds to exist doesn't change the fact that it does indeed exist and why things are 10x harder than it should be

the corpses and resentment that WWX involves himself with? yeah, that is a violation and taboo beyond anything, and especially in a culture where a specific religious/philosophical ideology are indeed present and are literally the foundation to what the characters live by, it's a lot more complicated

yeah, for all that I love the occasional war criminal joke, it's really useless as an actual framework, and some people are absolutely out here acting like the jianghu had the Geneva Convention. there's nothing more boring and useless than a conversation or analysis that begins with judging characters by the reader's external moral standards (especially when those come from a different culture/language than the writer's!) rather than those of the in-world society, or even just thinking about why they made those choices as characters