#but (HOLLOW KNIGHT SPOILERS) the ties to her radiance and the infection made for some very fun parallels
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It's the 6 month anniversary of this blog! Check out these cool bugs I found.
(EDIT: Check out this amazing fanart by thecornermushroom!)
Part 2 - Part 3
#poorly drawn mdzs#mdzs#hollow knight#mdzs au#mdzs hollow knight AU#way too many characters to tag#'OP why?' Listen... It was either this or a Homestuck crossover. Which is still on the table btw. I've put thought into it.#Speaking of putting thought into things...I have put two full asses of effort into this. So I'm gonna talk about it in the tags.#I mapped all the major sects to hallownest clans and drew *way* more than just the characters shown here#More pertinently not shown are the Nies - Who are beetles!#The mantis clan has a lot of crossover with the Nies given the lore but I Love Mantis Wangji and you cant take him away from me.#wwx was a moth solely for his ties to Baoshen sanren (nearly forgotten sect & nearly forgotten clan)#but (HOLLOW KNIGHT SPOILERS) the ties to her radiance and the infection made for some very fun parallels#YLLZ moth 100% is puppeting husks around#JGS is a pale king expy becuase...you know....lots of children...#it also gives me a great excuse to explain wwx's soul taking mxy's body.#Still have lots and lots to say but I'm already running late! More funny - less specific to a very small population - comics to morrow!#This was more or less a style study and I learned a lot!#Thank you all for an awesome 6 months B*) You guys have pushed my way more out of my shell (pun intented) than I would-#-have ever gone had I just hidden away like I usually do. Thanks for all the support even with silly things like this <3
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Possible Biology of The Infection
WARNING: This may be a looong post with possible spoilers and also BUG BIOLOGY
I feel that I am not alone in that when I first saw The Radiance, she was not what I was expecting. Why did this beautiful fluffy moth manifest herself as something like The Infection? The Infection that we fight throughout the game is this glowing, goopy mess that plagues the lower bugs of Hallownest. It is usually pretty grotesque and painful looking. Aesthetically, it seemed strange to me how it was tied to giant fluffy moth.
But the more I thought about it, the more I realized how significant it is that The Radiance is a moth. Because moths go through metamorphosis.
I will assume most of us know the basic idea of metamorphosis for moths/butterflies. Mainly the part where they are contained within a cocoon/chrysalis for a time and burst out in a mature form. But have you ever wondered what happens inside the cocoon? Scientifically speaking, it is cool as heck, and still fits in pretty well with the somewhat grisly methods of metamorphosis seen in Hollow Knight (looking at you, Gruz Mother and Grubfather).
Within the cocoon, the caterpillar digests its own body from the inside out, using some of the same enzymes it used to digest its food as a larva. The body is completely broken down into special cells called imaginal cells, which will be used to form the mature moth. But in the meantime, the inside of the cocoon is basically bug soup.
This cool video here partially shows a caterpillar going through this change within its cocoon. If you’d rather not watch the video, it shows how the caterpillar body is broken down from the inside, so its old body looks like a dead husk that the larger moth will break out of once formed.
Is this sounding familiar yet? If not, at least you learned a cool bug fact.
So how does this connect with The Infection? The Radiance?
Part of my theory is that a form of metamorphosis is how The Radiance physically created and controlled her subjects. The other higher beings of Hallownest had either physical forms or vessels to allow them to rule over their subjects (even the Nightmare Heart had Grimm). The Radiance is unique, as she is only encountered in the dream realm. However, she had the power to make life. So she made the moth tribe and ruled within their minds. Seeing as we know moths go through metamorphosis, I believe she used some form of it to create the moth tribe and mold their bodies and minds to her will. Her essence was ingrained in the very life cycle of her people.
"Light is life, beaming, pure, brilliant. To stifle that light is to suppress nature. Nature suppressed distorts, plagues us." – Moss Prophet
Then the Pale King came along.The bugs, even her moths, suddenly had minds of their own. She was forgotten as the bugs of Hallownest lived their own lives as they pleased, without her molding their mind body and soul. As we know, she did not take this very well. But she still had power to not only warp dreams, but also life.
This is where The Infection comes in. My theory is that The Infection is metamorphosis that has gone out of control. The Radiance first took root in the dreams of the bugs, and then began to try and warp them to her will the same way she had done with the moths. She breaks them down from the inside out, starting with the mind, and then grotesquely twist them into the brainwashed, swollen husk that we fight. Their dreams are her cocoon.
Do I have evidence to support my rambling? Let’s see.
Take a look at infected bugs. In most cases, their body is functional and The Infection is visible in their eyes, or bursting from their body in goopy blobs. I would compare these husks to the “dead” body of the caterpillar that contains the bug soup that becomes the mature moth in the earlier video. They are a shell of what they used to be, and hold contain something else now...
Most infected bugs resisted The Radiance, so they did not go through a metamorphosis as intended. While their minds were hers, the inside of their bodies were turned into Infection that outgrows their simple shells. The “burning” that is often associated with The Infection may be the digestive enzymes turning the victim’s insides into bug soup for metamorphosis. Ouch.
BUT what better supports my theory of The Infection being metamorphosis is the bugs that did accept The Radiance. The mantis traitors, most notably Traitor Lord. Besides the eyes, the Traitor Lord does not have the telltale signs of Infection breaking him apart from inside. But he does look almost like a different species next to his uninfected sisters. He is an incredibly powerful boss too, being able to dish out double damage. Additionally, his growth and power are clearly stated to be a result of him accepting The Infection. His journal entry says:
"I have felt that desire. The desire to take the infection into myself. To become stronger, more powerful . . . “– The Hunter
This supports the idea that the Traitor Lord and the other mantis traitors have undergone metamorphosis, allowing themselves to be manipulated and empowered by The Radiance. They grew beyond their previous state to become a larger, more dangerous bug.
And finally, the reason that I felt that this is a theory that was worth looking into, is that Hollow Knight is a game filled with themes of transformation and change, and these themes manifest often in the higher beings. The Nightmare Heart is perpetuated by a dance of death, using Grimm as a vessel. The Pale King shed his giant Wyrm form to rule Hallownest, leaving behind his own corpse. Then there is the Void itself, which can be united, given form, and given focus by Ghost to become the Lord of Shades. Metamorphosis is an amazing and often symbolic natural phenomena that would fit well within the world of Hollow Knight.
As a parting note, it was pointed out by another person a while back that The Hollow Knight resembles a cocoon when hanging in the Black Egg. I find this fitting, as they literally contain the Radiance while she grows in power, and they have to be broken open for it to be possible to reach her.
It’s also painfully ironic, that the Hollow Knight was supposed to be her cage, but became her cocoon.
#hollow knight#OH DEAR THAT TOOK LONGER THAN INTENDED RIP#i hope that made sense#ehhh and this one is out there#but still a cool explanation or headcannon to me#lore#theories#rambling#thk#the radiance#radiance#little ghost#pale king#traitor lord#LONG POST#i shoulda just done a thesis on bug lore huh#also ysmirel owes me their first born now i hope it was worth it
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The story of Hollow Knight
Hollow Knight is a Metroidvania style videogame developed and published by Team Cherry. It introduces a very interesting lore, telling the story of a Knight without a past on a quest to save the abandoned insect kingdom of Hallownest.
In this meta I want to analyze the lore of the entire game, which is very interesting and addictive. Obviously this article is full of spoilers for those who have not yet played the game. Also this analysis is based a lot on what I found written in the Hollow Knight wiki, even if I had some personal reflection.
In the Kingdom of Hallownest there are many different important primordial higher beings, god-like bugs who have lived since the beginning of time, and others who are more recent but who are nevertheless divinized by the inhabitants of the Kingdom. However, for a better analysis we must first introduce a summary of the Hallownest’s history in game.
The Hollow Knight (the one who gives the title to the videogame) is a Vessel chosen by the Pale King to seal away the Radiance and save Hallownest from the Infection. As wiki says, they were the child of the King and the Queen of Hallownest, birthed in the Abyss to be infused with the power of the Void. Because of that we consider them genderless and their birth condition was also supposed to leave them without a mind, will and voice. Thanks to this particular condition, void creatures are the only ones that can contain the Radiance, since the Radiance feed themselves with the light of dreams also distorting them as if they were physical entities. However purity of the Hollow Knight was misjudged because they created an emotional bond with the Pale King who raised them.
“Regardless of their impurity, the Hollow Knight was trained and raised, eventually becoming a fully grown Vessel. The Radiance was sealed within them, and they were chained within the Temple of the Black Egg where they were expected to contain the Infection for eternity. However, because of the aforementioned impurities, the Radiance could still exert influence. It ultimately resulted in the resurgence of the Infection and the Kingdom falling into ruin. Over time, the Hollow Knight disappeared from the fallen Kingdom’s memory. Only the Memorial in the middle of the City of Tears testifies of their sacrifice to save Hallownest. After some time, the Radiance’s power broke out of the Hollow Knight, cracking their shell and fully infecting them. This event was the catalyst that brought the Knight back to Hallownest. The Knight can free and fight the Hollow Knight after killing the three Dreamers who sealed the Black Egg’s entrance” .
The fate of the Hollow Knight is linked to the end of the game chosen by players, because there are different finals:
- by killing the Hollow Knight the Knight takes their place in sealing the Radiance;
- by entering their mind with the help of Hornet the Knight can chase away the Radiance;
- by defeating Absolute Radiance at the peak of the Pantheon of Hallownest the Infection vanishes forever and the Hollow Knight can then be seen walking out of the Black Egg’s temple, freed from the Infection.
Now let’s move on ti analyze the main divinities in the game’s lore.
The Radiance:
“The light. Forgotten. The plague, the infection, the madness that haunts the corpses of Hallownest… the light that screams out from the eyes if this dead Kingdom. What is the source? I suppose mere mortals like myself will never understand”.
The Radiance is a secret final boss and the Absolute Radiance is her final form. She’s one of the higher being god-like bugs above mentioned, opposed to the Void, her ancient enemy. She gave birth to the Moth tribe and because of that they revered her. Unlike the individualist society of Hallownest the Radiance offered unity to bugs at the cost of a mind incapable of thought.
“After the Pale King arrived in Hollownest and expanded the minds of his new subjects, the Moth Tribe turned their backs in the Radiance and worshipped him instead. In doing so, the Radiance was almost entirely forgotten, Yet traces of her memory remained, such as a statue on Hollownest’s Crown. Her memory started spreading throughout the Kingdom, by then in its golden age. Soon, all of Hallownest began to dream of her, appearing to them as a blazing light. These dreams could break the minds of bugs and eventually enslave their wills to hers. But the King and his subjects resisted her memory, which started to manifest as the Infection. The Pale King attempted to stop the Infection by sealing the Radiance within a Vessl. These creatures, infused with the Void to be without a mind and a will, were to be able to withstand the Radiance’s influence. The Hollow Knight was chosen, raised and grown for that purpose. The Radiance was sealed within them, and the Vessel chained within the Temple of the Black Egg. However, the Pale King failed to realise the Vessel’s impurities of mind. Because of this, the Radiance was still able to invade the dreams of bugs. She ultimately wiped out the Kingdom of its inhabitants, whose King had vanished, but left the rest of the land untouched.
Time passed, Hallownest turned into a myth while the Radiance remained sealed. Her influence finally started to break out of the Hollow Knight. She regnited the full power of the Infection, threatening again the land of Hallownest and prompting the Knight to return to Hallownest”.
I found the use of light as a villain very interesting. In fictions light usually wins over darkness as god wins over evil, but in the Kingdom of Hallownest she’s the real enemy, since, in real life, the bugs follow the light blindly. However I’d like to introduce a theory now.
We can consider the Kingdom of Hallownest as built on three levels:
- the higher level is the outside world on the surface and from which the light comes through: this maybe recalls heaven, but as we said for the bugs is more comparable to hell. The vision of something which comes from a otherwordly dimension can drive everyone crazy;
- the middle level is the realm, with its inhabitants;
- the lower level is the Abyss: in fictions the Abyss usually recalls hell but that’s not totally true for Hollow Knight because of different reasons:
i) we can find the corpse of the Vessel used and thrown away by the Pale King, but it’s also the place that gave birth to our heroe, so it cannot be considered totally negative;
ii) the game tells us that the Kingdom of Hallownest is a tribute to all what bugs have been in life and this fills with a different meaning this place;
iii) we can find the Void into the Abyss and thanks to them we can defeat the Radiance forever.
So, in other words, in Hollow Knight’s lore the meaning of heaven and hell is reversed.
If we consider this theory true, we can finally appreciate why Radiance chooses to punish Moth tribe: another recurring theme in the narrative is the God who punishes men who turn their backs. Moth tribe chose the Pale King because he promised wellness, an earthly value, forever. This is clearly a sin and the tribe deserves to be punished.
The Void:
The Void is the substance of The Abyss, most of them is found in a sea at the bottom of the Abyss, but multiple beings exist who consist of Void themselves. The Void is “the power opposed”: it has the ability to oppose the light based Radiance and Pale King, who are both describes as light. When the Knight acquires the Void Heart and learns about their past the Void is unified under their will.
Since the Void completely leaks any kind of emotion and the hope It is capable of containing the Radiance, who feeds herself with dreams as if they were physical entities. Its nature of nothingness allows it to be filled with something and that’s why having been raised by the King made the Hollow Knight feel love and become imperfect.
The Pale King and his Queen:
“The old king of Hallownest… he must have been desperate to save his crumbling little world. The sacrifices he imposed on other… all for nothing”.
The Pale King is considered to be a higher being who used to be the monarch of Hallownest, mate of the White Lady and ruler of the White Palace. We find him dead on his throne in the White Palace. I am sure he died of despair for not being able to find the bathroom in that absurd place he called home and whoever has played that level will agree with me. I mean, the architect should be sued.
As wiki says, he’s an ancient Wyrm who wandered through mountains and across the wasteland until finally stopping by Kingdom’s Edge. Once there, the Wyrm shed the skin and transformed himself into the Pale King. He reduced his form in order to match the bugs of Hallownest.
Contrary to what is commonly said, I don’t’ think he is a higher being for real. I think he was a mortal bug like all the others, but remaining mostly closed in his Palace he was deified by his subjects. As a matter of fact, while the Radiance has never stopped giving her people the light she promised, the Pale King has not kept his promises and if he really was a divinity he would not have died. He symbolizes the earthly power and the aura of divine that hovers around monarchical figures, who do not mix themselves with their subjects, they often make promises that they cannot keep remaining enclosed in sumptuous palaces.
Moreover, the children whom the Pale King and the Queen gave birth to are just vessels, which are mortal remains and not divine spirit: it’s the difference between the mortal body of Jesus Christ (given to him by his mortal mother) and his immortal spirit (given to him by the divine father). In the same way, the Knight possesses the mortal remains of their parents but infused with the spirit of emptiness that characterized their divine nature.
Anyway, the Pale King gives to his people free will, while the Radiance claims intellectual slavery.
The Knight:
“An enigmatic wanderer who descends into Hallownest carrying only a broken nail to fend off foes” – official manual.
The Knight is the protagonist of the videogame. A discarded Vessel, child of the Pale King and the White Lady, born in the Abyss with Void inside their shell. Like the rest of their Vessel siblings is genderless. They embody emptiness: they are not created by anyone except by emptiness itself. They are a messianic figure who bring peace to the Kingdom.
Nightmare King Grimm:
“The expanse of dream in past was split,
One realm now must stay apart,
Darkest reaches, beatin red,
Terror of sleep. The Nightmare’s Heart”.
Nightmare King Grimm is the Dream form of Tropue Master Grimm: “Through dream I travel, at lantern’s call to consume the flames of a kingdom’s fall”. As wiki says, The Grimm Tropue is a mysterious travelling circus from the Nightmare realm to wherever the Nightmare Lantern has been lit by acolytes. They gather Nightmare Flames from ruined lands to fuel the sinister being enslaving the Troupe, the Nightmare’s Heart. The Nightmare is the dimension where the Nightmare’s Heart rests. The Nightmare’s Heart is the proper host of the Nightmare, as the Radiance is the host of the Dream. The Nightmare’s Heart is a higher being responsible for the Ritual of the Grimm Troupe, Grimmchild and Troupe Master Grimm are its spawn.
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Pardon Jaxx Doing a Ramble About Hollow Knight and MCR
(spoilers ahoy!)
OKAY BUT
Seriously, y’all. Mama is such a perfect fit for The Hollow Knight in particular, and the Vessels as a whole? The entire theme about someone who’s been through hell but going unappreciated, losing everyone around them in the process? Hoooooo boy!
I’m gonna put this bad boy under the cut because we are doing a lyrical breakdown, friendos!
Mama, we all go to hell Mama, we all go to hell I'm writing this letter and wishing you well Mama, we all go to hell Oh, well, now Mama, we're all gonna die Mama, we're all gonna die Stop asking me questions, I'd hate to see you cry Mama, we're all gonna die
This part could go two directions. It could be about the Pale King drowning the eggs in the Abyss or whatever, and it could be about The Hollow Knight being imprisoned.
“We’re all going to die,” could be the many, many Vessels, or it could be THK admitting that they’re not hollow and pure. By being imprisoned, they doomed Hallownest; they would never be able to protect it adequately.
“Stop asking me questions,” leans more towards imprisonment, methinks. Poke THK’s facade too much, and it falls apart. Which means all The Pale King’s work is for naught, one definite reason to cry. Now, would that mean Hallownest is, again, doomed, or that PK is going to have to kill more of his children in an attempt to get the ‘right’ one? And no matter what, it would mean PK and WL have been depriving their thinking, willful, ‘living’ child of an actual childhood.
And when we go don't blame us, yeah We'll let the fire just bathe us, yeah You made us, oh, so famous We'll never let you go And when you go don't return to me my love
This strikes me more as the imprisonment. We’ve got them leaving (deployment as far as I can tell in the song’s original context, THK being sealed here), and fire. Which, the Radiance is associated with light/the sun; she’s not the most fire-related, but hey, she and the Nightmare Heart appear to be related anyways! Plus, it’s a trial, it’s the Infection, all contained in them. Plus, you could argue when you release them and fight them, the Infection sure does bathe the battlefield from how much there is.
Now, Lemm mentions there’s really nothing speaking of The Hollow Knight, but they have a statue in the middle of the city, and bugs apparently come to worship at the Black Egg Temple. Now, who do they worship? Radiance, THK, even the Dreamers? Who knows! Could be any. But whatever happened there, PK seems to have made some effort into letting his child be known. Plus, you know, THK is one of the final bosses, the first character to appear on-screen at all...
“We’ll never let you go,” could also go two ways. It could be THK’s adoration of their father - the two could not let each other go and thus THK was no longer pure, if they were pure in the first place. It could also be about the siblings; they’re attracted to you when you go to the Abyss, and the Void definitely left a stain on PK’s mindspace, judging by his throne room, if it didn’t outright kill him.
And, of course, “When you go don’t return to me my love,” is the imprisonment. They’re never supposed to be free. The funny thing here is, the Godseeker endings imply they have the strength to leave the temple, even tangled in their chains. But, for some reason (gameplay-wise an obvious reason but we’re talking story here), they don’t leave otherwise. Their will to keep The Radiance as contained as possible?
Another fun bit: the chorus gets backing vocals, which could well be the other Vessels piping up.
Mama, we're all full of lies Mama, we're meant for the flies And right now they're building a coffin your size Mama, we're all full of lies
THK’s impurity and the fall of Hallownest. They’ve been ‘deceiving’ Hallownest up until they’re sealed, dooming it - the ‘meant for the flies’ and ‘building a coffin your size.’
Well, Mother, what the war did to my legs and to my tongue
THK sure did get real mangled. An arm instead of legs, yes, but also note the tongue; they were not allowed a voice. Even during the Pure Vessel fight, when they try to scream, there’s no sound coming from it, only the soundtrack.
These lines also involve a sort of toadlike, goblin-y voice. The Radiance?
You should've raised a baby girl I should've been a better son
Now, I don’t like gendering THK. But it can be hard to avoid. In this particular instance, I could see the first line going two ways - are they talking about Hornet, the baby girl who the White Lady and Pale King would have been left to raise after Herrah was sealed away, or is THK talking about themself, and how they should have been left out of the Void and raised as a normal god-baby? The implication they’d be a girl for the latter one is interesting; I know I saw someone posit that Myla’s song, when she sings about the (feminine) knight, she could mean a folklore version of THK. Also everyone defaults to calling them a boy when they gender them so I find it fun to shake that up.
“I should’ve been a better son,” gets back to the purity issue. They could try and try and try, but they would never be good enough. They would never be what they needed to be. Baby has anxiety and impostor syndrome, huh? The goblin voice/Radiance also returns here; possibly her taunting them with their shortcomings?
If you could coddle the infection They can amputate at once You should've been I could have been a better son
Again, the first bit ties to how mangled they are when we find them. They did coddle the Infection! And it sure did take their arm! But also, and I think this is part of the original context, too, it’s about emotionally cutting off from the child in question. Which, again, could be THK alone, could be the Vessels as a whole.
We also get more lovely guilt from THK at the end there, but what’s the “You should’ve been?” Are they accusing their parents of something? That they should have noticed THK wasn’t pure? Whatever it is, they cut themself off and reiterate the entire thing as their fault.
And the goblin/Radiance comes back for the amputation and ‘better son’ line. Which, considering what she did to them...
She said, "You ain't no son of mine For what you've done. They're gonna find A place for you And just you mind your manners when you go And when you go, don't return to me, my love." That's right
Well, the first line is just a bullseye on the dartboard, isn’t it? The White Lady seemed to be more detached from the Vessels than her husband was; she will claim you as her spawn, eventually, but only in a factual matter in that she helped conceive the Vessels. Those ghost babies aren’t her children any more.
‘A place for you’ and ‘Mind your manners?’ The Black Egg Temple returns! And we also get a peek at all the royalty and nobility The Hollow Knight was raised around. They were a knight, of course they would learn to behave properly, and their parents would be concerned with propriety.
Mama, we all go to hell Mama, we all go to hell It's really quite pleasant Except for the smell Mama, we all go to hell
Oh, there’s some Abyss right there. Possibly the Black Egg Temple again, too. THK did go from one to another, after all, with a brief bout of the Palace/Hallownest in between. Which could get at the two lines in the middle. “It’s really quite pleasant,” well, the Abyss is the Vessels’ birthplace/home. As for “the smell,” I imagine the Infection doesn’t smell like roses. Sunshine, maybe. But mostly disease. The two lines don’t go together as much, unless it’s THK trying to put on a brave face in the temple.
2 - 3 - 4 Mama! Mama! Mama! Oh! Mama! Mama! Mama! Ma...
This one starts a little angry, a little taunting, but it still sounds like a child calling for their mother. And especially at the end, where it turns to one long scream. They’re really just a kid who, despite everything that’s been done to them, wants their parents.
And if you would call me your sweetheart I'd maybe then sing you a song
This switches to “Mama’s” voice. Is it the White Lady and the Pale King loving their child, deep down, and if they had said something their parents would have taken them in as a child/heir and given them the affection, attention, and validation they sought? Or is it more taunting? There is some doubt, there, with the “maybe then;” THK cannot guarantee their parents would love them for who they are.
But there's shit that I've done with this fuck of a gun You would cry out your eyes all along
And we’re back to Gerard. The first line’s not that easy to work with; what did The Hollow Knight do themself that could get that sort of statement? Work with the Knights/PK? Something with the Radiance?
The second, though, normal bugs infected with Void appear to leave black tear stains on their faces. The broken masks in the Abyss display this, Godseeker has Void leak out her eyes, and the lighthouse keeper seems to meet the same fate. So... shoutout to that!
We're damned after all Through fortune and flame we fall And if you can stay then I'll show you the way To return from the ashes you call
And here’s where we get a whole chorus of voices. The Vessels have something to say! Damned to die in the Abyss, coming back as little ghosts (”returning from the ashes”), falling from what could have been life as nobility. And, of course, those siblings sure love to latch onto you whenever you come visit. Don’t know what they mean to show the way to, though.
We all carry on (We all carry on) When our brothers in arms are gone (When our brothers in arms are gone) So raise your glass high For tomorrow we die And return from the ashes you call
The Vessel chorus continues. Which, considering Ghost/the Knight, they certainly carried on after all the other Vessels died, and THK failed in their duty. They will continue. They will do what must be done, because that’s how they can be put to rest again. In Dream No More, all the siblings, Ghost and THK and all the ones in the Abyss, gang up on the Radiance and, once that’s done, they sink into the Abyss again. Their duty is over. They don’t have to linger any more, children that could never grow up.
Which, in the end, they seem to celebrate their deaths, perhaps bitterly but it’s something so clear to them. Are they angry at their parents for killing them and raising them again, only to leave them as restless spirits? Are they cheering Ghost on with their mission and looking forward to the Radiance’s end? Both?
And, at the very end, there’s no lyrics for it, but we hear “Mama” crying. Which, is she the Pale King here? The White Lady? Could very well be both. Both seem to show great regret over what happened; the White Lady bound herself up over it, and the Pale King stole the entire freaking palace away into the dream realm, and you find him dead, the throne room stained, with Void bubbles floating around, and I interpret his dream nail line as being very bitter and regretful.
Mama sent her baby away and now gets to live with regret filling the hole in her heart where they once lived.
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