#this is about GRRM

[melrosing]

i don’t know if these needs to be said but calling Dany’s slaver’s bay arc orientalist is not a criticism of Dany herself. it is a criticism of GRRM, the white westerner writing it. Dany is not responsible for the orientalist tropes that arise here, any more than say, Lyanna Stark et al are responsible for the disproportionate number of childbirth deaths in the series.

and I am aware that the people of slaver’s bay are of many different races, including white! GRRM has said that many times over. but the thing is that orientalism is not so much about race as it is the east vs the west. so whilst the racial dynamics here may be more ambiguous the juxtaposition of the east and the west is not. it’s in the names of the continents: Westeros, Essos. one is made up of familiar western fantasy and medieval tropes, the other is, well, other, and made up of a range of orientalist tropes. it’s in the food, the clothes, the sex, the accents, the religion, the everything. it is there. we have to reckon with that.

and if people are somehow blaming the presence of these tropes on Daenerys herself, that’s very much on them. it is extremely reductive to use these critiques as your pedestal in a stan war. it only shows that you do not even understand the argument at stake here. but if we refuse to acknowledge the orientalism in the story for the sake of defending a white character: that is also extremely reductive.

[magerightsyeah]

Male authors when you write dark fantasy without including copious amount of sexual violence again women

[aethersea]

another thing fantasy writers should keep track of is how much of their worldbuilding is aesthetic-based. it's not unlike the sci-fi hardness scale, which measures how closely a story holds to known, real principles of science. The Martian is extremely hard sci-fi, with nearly every detail being grounded in realistic fact as we know it; Star Trek is extremely soft sci-fi, with a vaguely plausible "space travel and no resource scarcity" premise used as a foundation for the wildest ideas the writers' room could come up with. and much as Star Trek fuckin rules, there's nothing wrong with aesthetic-based fantasy worldbuilding!

(sidenote we're not calling this 'soft fantasy' bc there's already a hard/soft divide in fantasy: hard magic follows consistent rules, like "earthbenders can always and only bend earth", and soft magic follows vague rules that often just ~feel right~, like the Force. this frankly kinda maps, but I'm not talking about just the magic, I'm talking about the worldbuilding as a whole.

actually for the purposes of this post we're calling it grounded vs airy fantasy, bc that's succinct and sounds cool.)

a great example of grounded fantasy is Dungeon Meshi: the dungeon ecosystem is meticulously thought out, the plot is driven by the very realistic need to eat well while adventuring, the story touches on both social and psychological effects of the whole 'no one dies forever down here' situation, the list goes on. the worldbuilding wants to be engaged with on a mechanical level and it rewards that engagement.

deliberately airy fantasy is less common, because in a funny way it's much harder to do. people tend to like explanations. it takes skill to pull off "the world is this way because I said so." Narnia manages: these kids fall into a magic world through the back of a wardrobe, befriend talking beavers who drink tea, get weapons from Santa Claus, dance with Bacchus and his maenads, and sail to the edge of the world, without ever breaking suspension of disbelief. it works because every new thing that happens fits the vibes. it's all just vibes! engaging with the worldbuilding on a mechanical level wouldn't just be futile, it'd be missing the point entirely.

the reason I started off calling this aesthetic-based is that an airy story will usually lean hard on an existing aesthetic, ideally one that's widely known by the target audience. Lewis was drawing on fables, fairy tales, myths, children's stories, and the vague idea of ~medieval europe~ that is to this day our most generic fantasy setting. when a prince falls in love with a fallen star, when there are giants who welcome lost children warmly and fatten them up for the feast, it all fits because these are things we'd expect to find in this story. none of this jars against what we've already seen.

and the point of it is to be wondrous and whimsical, to set the tone for the story Lewis wants to tell. and it does a great job! the airy worldbuilding serves the purposes of the story, and it's no less elegant than Ryōko Kui's elaborately grounded dungeon. neither kind of worldbuilding is better than the other.

however.

you do have to know which one you're doing.

the whole reason I'm writing this is that I saw yet another long, entertaining post dragging GRRM for absolute filth. asoiaf is a fun one because on some axes it's pretty grounded (political fuck-around-and-find-out, rumors spread farther than fact, fastest way to lose a war is to let your people starve, etc), but on others it's entirely airy (some people have magic Just Cause, the various peoples are each based on an aesthetic/stereotype/cliché with no real thought to how they influence each other as neighbors, the super-long seasons have no effect on ecology, etc).

and again! none of this is actually bad! (well ok some of those stereotypes are quite bigoted. but other than that this isn't bad.) there's nothing wrong with the season thing being there to highlight how the nobles are focused on short-sighted wars for power instead of storing up resources for the extremely dangerous and inevitable winter, that's a nice allegory, and the looming threat of many harsh years set the narrative tone. and you can always mix and match airy and grounded worldbuilding – everyone does it, frankly it's a necessity, because sooner or later the answer to every worldbuilding question is "because the author wanted it to be that way." the only completely grounded writing is nonfiction.

the problem is when you pretend that your entirely airy worldbuilding is actually super duper grounded. like, for instance, claiming that your vibes-based depiction of Medieval Europe (Gritty Edition) is completely historical, and then never even showing anyone spinning. or sniffing dismissively at Tolkien for not detailing Aragorn's tax policy, and then never addressing how a pre-industrial grain-based agricultural society is going years without harvesting any crops. (stored grain goes bad! you can't even mouse-proof your silos, how are you going to deal with mold?) and the list goes on.

the man went up on national television and invited us to engage with his worldbuilding mechanically, and then if you actually do that, it shatters like spun sugar under the pressure. doesn't he realize that's not the part of the story that's load-bearing! he should've directed our focus to the political machinations and extensive trope deconstruction, not the handwavey bit.

point is, as a fantasy writer there will always be some amount of your worldbuilding that boils down to 'because I said so,' and there's nothing wrong with that. nor is there anything wrong with making that your whole thing – airy worldbuilding can be beautiful and inspiring. but you have to be aware of what you're doing, because if you ask your readers to engage with the worldbuilding in gritty mechanical detail, you had better have some actual mechanics to show them.

[edennill-archived]

GRRM may write more women than Tolkien, but as a woman I would feel much safer in Tolkien's world, and around the author himself

[meanqueens]

ty grrm for my canon alicent crumb (alicent loved her family so much that it was her who organized jaehaera and maelor’s escape from king’s landing and refused to snitch on what happened to them)

[thenotoriousscuttlecliff]

Since Avatar The Last Airbender got remade in live action so it could be more like Game of Thrones, they should remake Game of Thrones in animation so it can be more like Avatar The Last Airbender.

[booksandchainmail]

grrm: I don't care how gay you make my books, just make sure you keep in all the dead toddlers

[amber-laughs]

He loves him. He raised him. That’s his son.

"Come, let us see what mischief my sons have rooted out now."

He hates him. A constant reminder of the worst days his of his life. The weight of House Stark on his shoulders with no warning.

“He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.”

He doesn’t miss him.

“The thought of Winterfell brought a wan smile to his face. He wanted to hear Bran's laughter once more, to go hawking with Robb, to watch Rickon at play.”

He begs, in his dying hour, for one last moment with him.

“The thought of Jon filled Ned with a sense of shame, and a sorrow too deep for words. If only he could see the boy again, sit and talk with him…”

He’s his greatest shame.

“I've never lain with any woman but Cersei. In my own way, I have been truer than your Ned ever was. Poor old dead Ned. So who has shit for honor now, I ask you? What was the name of that bastard he fathered?"

He’s his highest honor.

“The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him "son" for all the north to see.”

He’s his darkest lie.

“Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face. That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. “Never ask me about Jon,” he said, cold as ice.”

He’s his kept promise.

“Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes.”

[ai-manre]

Cant believe there are still people calling Arya unkind and implying she's somehow less moral and less heroic than other characters. When she is TEN years old and does this:

As they were running toward the barn, Arya spied the crying girl sitting in the middle of the chaos, surrounded by smoke and slaughter. She grabbed her by the hand and pulled her to her feet as the others raced ahead. The girl wouldn't walk, even when slapped. Arya dragged her with her right hand while she held Needle in the left. Ahead, the night was a sullen red. The barn's on fire, she thought. Flames were licking up its sides from where a torch had fallen on straw, and she could hear the screaming of the animals trapped within. Hot Pie stepped out of the barn. "Arry, come on! Lommy's gone, leave her if she won't come!"

Stubbornly, Arya dragged all the harder, pulling the crying girl along. Hot Pie scuttled back inside, abandoning them . . . but Gendry came back, the fire shining so bright on his polished helm that the horns seemed to glow orange. He ran to them, and hoisted the crying girl up over his shoulder. "Run!"

Rushing through the barn doors was like running into a furnace. The air was swirling with smoke, the back wall a sheet of fire ground to roof. Their horses and donkeys were kicking and rearing and screaming. The poor animals, Arya thought. Then she saw the wagon, and the three men manacled to its bed. Biter was flinging himself against the chains, blood running down his arms from where the irons clasped his wrists. Rorge screamed curses, kicking at the wood. "Boy!" called Jaqen H'ghar. "Sweet boy!" [...]

Going back into that barn was the hardest thing she ever did. Smoke was pouring out the open door like a writhing black snake, and she could hear the screams of the poor animals inside, donkeys and horses and men. She chewed her lip, and darted through the doors, crouched low where the smoke wasn't quite so thick.

A donkey was caught in a ring of fire, shrieking in terror and pain. She could smell the stench of burning hair. The roof was gone up too, and things were falling down, pieces of flaming wood and bits of straw and hay. Arya put a hand over her mouth and nose. She couldn't see the wagon for the smoke, but she could still hear Biter screaming. She crawled toward the sound.

And then a wheel was looming over her. The wagon jumped and moved a half foot when Biter threw himself against his chains again. Jaqen saw her, but it was too hard to breathe, let alone talk. She threw the axe into the wagon. Rorge caught it and lifted it over his head, rivers of sooty sweat pouring down his noseless face.

Arya literally threw herself into a burning shed with falling roof, to rescue complete strangers. The worst she's risking here is not a beating or anything, she's risking her life and that too by making the active choice to go in and rescue people she does not know. Are you kidding me?? You see this and still Arya Stark isn't the kindest heroic character?

[cthaehart]

“In this light she could almost be a knight.”

[addamvelaryon]

When you stand in front of me and look at me, what do you know of the griefs that are in me and what do I know of yours?

— Franz Kafka

Corlys, Addam & Laenor by Imperiat

[greenqueenhightower]

The fact that Geeta Patel doesn’t know that F&B heavily implies that Elissa Farman took the eggs that would come to Daenerys’ hands and that Rhaena carries three eggs to the Vale, with one of them hatching to a dragon, thus leaving only two, and that GRRM made this decision purposefully, so that we know that Daenerys’ eggs don’t come from Rhaena, is disconcerting.

I’m starting to believe that the writers/producers/directors/showrunners have either never read Fire & Blood, or lack basic-level critical thinking skills.

[hylialeia]

everyone who doesn't include the full quote when mocking GRRM's "what was Aragorn's tax policy" rhetorical question owes me $200

[jonsnowunemploymentera]

And remember kids, the next time someone tells you, "George R. R. Martin wouldn't make Jon Snow the typical fantasy hero because that's cliche".....

Oh yes he would!

One viewer wants to know what character would you play (on the show)? GRRM: If I could magically clap my hands and become a different person, it would be cool to play Jon Snow who's much more of the classic hero. Everybody wants to be the classic hero! ABC Interview, 2014

GRRM: And the character I’d want to be? Well who wouldn’t want to be Jon Snow — the brooding, Byronic, romantic hero whom all the girls love. Meduza Interview, 2017

In fact he already has ☺️

[winterprince601]

very funny to me that grrm went "here is my geopolitical fantasy epic loosely based on the war of the roses. i've elevated the fraught family dynamics, elaborated the dynastic tensions and imbued the entire thing with a magical dimension that pushes the action into the mythic. what are the names of the feuding houses that started it all? uhhhh (looking at smudged writing on hand that reads: york vs lancaster) stark and lannister. one of them is in the north. another features a vilified disabled man but ohoho it's not the one you'd expect!"

[a0random0gal]

Yeah so Remember when Ryan Condal said Aegon and Sunfyre's bond was "Green propaganda" and everyone got understandably mad at him??

Take a look at what he said regarding b&c:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HOTDGreens/s/NabfGkmeWs

Bro...what the actual fuck did you just say?

Apparently blood and cheese was all green propaganda that Alicent spread to make saint Rhaenyra look bad. It was all a misunderstanding, there was no choice between Jaehaerys and Maelor, it was all made up.

Alicent just invented the most evil lie she could muster up to villainize the amazing blacks. What was shown onscreen is the real representation of what transpired.

Jesus Christ Condal i get that you hate book! Alicent (and Alicent in general) for some reason but can you stop blaming that poor woman, who had to watch her grandchild get beheaded, and not say she was lying out of her ass? Is that so hard?

"You were supposed to be rooting for blood and cheese and hope they didn't get caught!"

For the love of the Seven, if you don't want all the money you spent marketing this show to go down the drain Hbo please keep this man away from any interviews, I can't listen to him anymore without wanting to turn my phone off.

I genuinely can't fault many greens for deciding to stop watching because of this bs.

It's so embarrassing that a writer who is supposed to portray a civil war and keep both sides on equal ground pulls this type of shit. For me the next episode is coming out tomorrow and honestly I have no motivation to watch, absolutely no excitement.

I tried to deny it in the past, but now the writer's bias has become so blatant that my love for the show has taken a hit. Hotd truly is a high budget team black fanfic.

And here I thought without D&D in the picture we would be fine.