#they were just really into the ends justifying the means

[oikarma]

number one girl

pairing: max verstappen x reader

summary: the story of ynmax is a very, very heated topic riddled with holes and chock full of conspiracies: a couple and split to rival brocedes. it's mostly an a f1 thing, though, until you release an album and the internet tries to deduce what ruined a decades-long friendship.

a/n: angst warning. bear with me, you're in for a long ride. we go from twitter to insta to reddit to sdfsd. this was SO FUN!

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liked by stevienicks, georgerussell63 and 3,104,827 others

yourinstagram: "number one girl" out now.

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user1: mother??? music???

user2: our multitalented baby <3

stevienicks: so proud of you ❤️

yourinstagram: so thankful for you 🥺 your support is immeasurable in worth

user3: max verstappen did you-

user4: george listening to this so he can justify bullying max next season

user5: please 💀 i choked on my water reading that

user6: CHARLES IN THE CREDITS FOR PIANO?? how many side quests has this girl roped people into

user7: they're still good friends lol just cause she and max stopped speaking doesn't mean she's not close w the rest of the grid user8: @/user7 right! she and alex have also posted each other quite a bit after the rhode collab

user9: is no one talking about the lyrics 😃 gut wrenching, yes, but the way it all lines up w max??

user10: no babe dw we're all talking about the lyrics user11: my roman empire...

user12: who's this max guy and what does he have to do with my queen y/n

user13: @/user12 he's a formula one driver, they ued to be best friends user12: @/user13 like nascar? omg what i only knew that she debuted in shadow n bone but WHAT IS THIS

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A PAGE FROM Y/N's JOURNAL November 15, 2021

Max is a plane right now to see Kelly. I feel like I've been punched, three times over. The nausea is getting to me.

How could you? Just say all those things, like you always do. Do you mean any of them? When you say "I love you, more than anyone in this life." When you say "You're worth it, really. "When you say "forever." Does anyone ever really mean forever? Forever is part of the foreseeable future. You cannot capture what is beyond that.

You were my life. The words, every moment. An inescapable reminder.

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liked by charles_leclerc, brunomars and 2,819,305 others

yourinstagram: "toxic till the end (ft. lewis hamilton)" is up on youtube and all music platforms ♡

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user1: what. the. fuck.

user2: is she dating lewis? what? y/n girl please stop being cryptic my head can't take all of this 😭

user3: if this is part of the press tour i must say i am now extremely invested in the ynmax drama and i didn't even know who max was until i saw a thread on number one girl...

lewishamilton: Best of luck with your future endeavors, Y/N 🫂 Will be by your side!

yourinstagram: you better be 🫰 user4: the friendship we didn't know we needed

user5: lewis with...pink hair...

user6: max emilian verstappen fumbled so hard

user7: imagine ghosting THE y/n l/n and then she drops this

user8: well, 4 years later but yeah user9: what even is a wdc...

user10: what does the heart mean y/n

user11: bro

user12: so i guess the harry styles dating rumors were all fake 😔 but omg lewis music!!

kellypiquet: Face and voice of an angel 😽

yourinstagram: me? please, pregnancy glow has been treating you good 💕 user13: at least they don't have any hard feelings...

user14: bruno in the likes is the most random thing ever

user15: acting career, check. singing career, check. formula one side quests??? multple checks

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liked by kellypiquet and 4,103,697 others

lewishamilton: Behind the scenes of Miss Y/N's "toxic till the end" music video

tagged: yourinstagram

yourinstagram: looking good there, lew

lewishamilton: Very kind of you to say user1: trust me we are witnessing the start of a great romance

user2: i don't want to delulu too hard but PLEASE tell me y/n's moved on with lewis it would be the ultimate baddie move

user3: imagine...you won abu dhabi but you lost the love of your life to the guy you beat 🤪 user4: we're all insane but i'm just going to keep dreaming

charles_leclerc: Why am I not in your dump?

yourinstagram: face card wasn't lethal enough user5: she's brutal 💀 user6: our charles's facecard could start wars idk what she's on

user7: daddy please give me ONE chance

user8: give me some of that maranello?? he looks so good oml

user9: focusing on music videos and not racing...no wonder he's washed

user10: @/user9 can you stfu and touch grass user11: @/user9 literally no one asked

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AN UNSENT LETTER FROM MAX November 2021

Dear Hey, Y/N.

I realized you blocked me. It hurts. I don't know what to say or what to believe anymore. I miss us. Overstepping was the wrong choice, if you must, but going back is not impossible.

We've been friends for so long. Why can't you won't you try?

I miss you.

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r/Fauxmoi · 1 day ago hamilton7xc

Max Verstappen and Y/N L/N's infamous split explained?

feralonsos: So she's been pretending he led her on when she lead him on

parking23: I don't know anymore. I know nothing. Don't even talk to me.

forzamcqueen: I want to say it's not about YNMax but 21 (as in 21, when they split?) and Y/N has been coming out with music recently. When you look at the "number one girl" lyrics from Boy's perspective it lines up with this submission. That Max wanted reassurance from Y/N and she gave it to him, but she couldn't give him everything he needed.

↳ roses_berg: @/forzamcqueen I don't know...it seems kind of unlikely. Y/N has a lyric about "chasing the prize" or something like that. What prize would she be chasing? On the other hand, you have Max who has clearly said racing is his passion and he loves winning.

↳ forzamcqueen: @/roses_berg I see where you're coming from but there are a few interpretations. Toxic Till the End suggests she thought his attachment to her was maybe unhealthy, and he kept trying to find ways to keep her by his side. Y/N has mentioned in past interviews (promo for her role in Shadow and Bone, when she was starting to do acting) that she's had bad experience with past relationships and is hesitant on starting a new one.

↳ januaryblues11: @/forzamcqueen Sorry, what interview? Could you link it?

↳ forzamcqueen: @/januaryblues11 No worries, I put it down below. The part I'm referring to is around 5:41.

↳ WolffHornerFan: @/forzamcqueen Okay, okay. I need a timeline then. She must've started filming Shadow and Bone in Oct 2019, then wrapped 4 months later in Feb 2020. This might be the "prize" she's chasing? Her own career. Before it was announced that she was in the series most news referred to her as "close friend" or "best friend" of Max Verstappen. Now a lot of people know her for S&B or Top Gun Maverick, etc.

↳ CautiousOwl: Might've not wanted her relationship to overshadow her career. It's understandable, if she wanted to be taken seriously instead of a "nepo friend."

↳ 4norrisop: She's amazing in Shadow and Bone! Definitely recommend checking that out, but I don't understand why she ghosted him.

↳ ynluv07: @/4norrisop he was dating kelly at the time. she might've thought it was a bad idea after it happened (i'm referring to the kiss, which i assume happened because she explicitly refers to it a few times in "number one girl") and distanced herself. maybe she told him it wasn't okay?

↳ ICEMAN_bwoah: Brain hurts.

↳ brooksies: Well if she did give up her happiness because she thought Kelly deserved better, that's great. No wonder they're still on good terms.

↳ DauntingParrot91: @/brooksies Yeah, sure...

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AN UNSENT LETTER FROM MAX January 2022

Y/N, I'm sorry I asked for too much; I'm sorry I pushed you. I'll take my bags and go quietly, this time. Maybe you'll open the door again someday. I love you too, my best friend always.

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liked by lewishamilton, taylorswift and 4,103,269 others

yourinstagram: Burnout.

comments on this post have been limited

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AN UNSENT LETTER FROM Y/N February 2022

Wish you'd take a little longer to pack up your bags. You're moving too fast. Make me want to hate you more than I hate myself, so I don't have to miss you. Make a mistake, please. So I have someone to blame.

Please, won't you stay a little longer? I would call you babe, just to make you smile. I wouldn't mean it that way, but I still love you. You're my best friend. Why wasn't that enough?

I'll be okay, sometime. You say it's written all over my face, and I wonder, what is? I'm fragile, now. I'm speechless, now. Don't leave me in pieces. I'm sorry, let me fix it. It won't be good for us, but oh-how I want to.

I'm already having trouble breathing. Please, stay a little longer. I can't stand these four walls without you inside them.

Come back, be here.

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liked by kellypiquet and 1,249,805 others

maxverstappen: She stayed a little longer 🖤

tagged: kellypiquet

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user1: GUYS HE DEF HEARD THE SONG

user2: do we think kelly asked him to post it

user3: tbf given on how sweet her n yns interactions are i wouldn't be surprised if she listened to burnout

user4: kelly. you are the strongest woman i know

user5: so i can convince you the minute i kiss you speak a little softer so i don't have to answer and make it okay before you can say

user6: i just know he had a little breakdown inside after he heard the album

user7: max rn: CHARLES HOW COULD YOU PLAY PIANO FOR HER

user8: max: alexa play that should be me user9: ho-olding your handdd

user10: who are we blaming today

user11: at least max is finally someone's number one girl

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AN UNSENT LETTER FROM MAX Summer 2024

Sometimes I look to the television and you're on, flying a plane or wielding magic, whatever it is you do these days. I knew you could act. I knew you'd make it far. I hear you were nominated for a Golden Globe, too.

I was mad for a long time. I was upset you kicked me out of your life so abruptly.

Kelly's expecting. I think she will be as good a mother to our child as she is to little P. A family is what I have always wanted, you know. It was not what you wanted.

I am sorry. I have said that many times, but one day I will need to say it to your face. I am truly, irrevocably sorry for all the hurt I caused you, in the name of love.

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r/PopCultureChat · 1 day ago forzamcqueen

"Burnout" by Y/N L/N

How do we feel about the release of the full album? Moreover, how do we think it fits into the YNMax narrative? I, for one, have been listening non-stop trying to figure out the story.

lec_clerc16: I think it's funny how many people have gotten into F1 because of her music. Lol.

↳ NaturalOtter5: Well Lewis & Charles were on it so I would say the F1 community is pretty interested in the tea aswell.

↳ lec_clerc16: @/NaturalOtter5 Right, but YNMax is old drama. Sure, someone's posting in r/F1 every other week about an old photo or new quote. It's still been around for a while. This is fresh meat 😋

jennyowens1342: such a player...LOL who is gameboy about atp

↳ sassybanana: TBF Y/N's dating life has been a lot more quiet than Max's. There have been rumors but she hasn't hard launched anything. Maybe the one public "relationship" was enough for her.

museapollo: the more i listen the more convinced i am that y/n did not want the relationship as max did and decided it was best for them to stop being friends. the whole album is about a codependent relationship and the two people can't deal with leaving but they know it's better for both.

↳ janitorsclosetmonster: yess!! that's what i've been saying. we can't blame y/n for everything, it must've been confusing for her as well. having to navigate everything. idt she'd dated anyone at that point. max was her only close friend.

↳ EggplantParmesan713: But did max cheat...that's the real question. When did THE kiss happen? And who started it?

↳ museapollo: @/EggplantParmesan713 idk. i can't figure if she actually loved him (romantically) bcs it's clear he did but her side is a bit more hazy. you have: 1. "i just WANT it to be you" - it's not actually him she loves but she desperately wants it to be him 2. "cause even when i said it was over / you heard baby can you pull me in closer" - she's telling him it won't work out but he's not listening. 3. "please, won't you stay, stay a little a little longer, babe?" - she pauses before babe, like it's her trying to convince him to stay. mb she thought it was best to distance herself/end the friendship for a bit but she still loves him a lot because they've been friends for so long

↳ forzamcqueen: @/museapollo The best explanation I have heard so far. You can't force someone to love you the way you do. At least they've matured and moved on.

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January 2025

Dear Max:

Congratulations. I'm sure you will be a wonderful father, as I have always guessed. 2024 was a great year for you. I watched all a few of your races; you've still got it.

I'm putting out an album soon. I thought you should know. I already had a talk with Kelly, she's listened to some snippets and she likes it a lot. Some of the writing is about you the things I never said.

It was wonderful being your best friend. We had a good run, better than most.

Missing you Wish you the best, Y/N L/N

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February 2025

Dear Y/N:

Occasionally, I think of all that could have been.

But we had many years together, and I will always cherish those moments.

Kelly loves the album, she puts it on while she cooks or does her makeup. P sings along in the car. She says she wants to go out for a tea party with you sometime. I listen to it even when they're out of the voice, for a reminder of your voice. You've made quite a name for yourself. I'm sorry I couldn't be there by your side.

Thank you for writing it. There are some things that you have to hear once, just for yourself.

Love Always Yours, Max Verstappen

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what did you think?? i might do a part 2 of yn & max talking for the first time in forever but i wanna know if you guys liked this one first LOL

[scoobydoodean]

seriously why is gadreel so likeable. like somehow gadreel's actor nailed the likeable vibe castiel has and that's Crazy. (im not saying i think everything he did was justified im just saying hes like. i appreciate him for having a consistent moral code that he tries to live by even if he gets manipulated)

When he first shows up, he behaves like (the romanticized version of) a medieval knight. Like. Listen to his dialogue when he first appears to rescue Dean from an angel beating the shit out of him.

GADREEL/EZEKIEL: Easy there, brother. This young man has prayed for our assistance. Are we creatures of wrath or compassion? I would argue the latter.

He has a very (charmingly) "old fashioned" take on angelic duty. He believes it's their job to help humans. His ultimate sacrifice reinforces that that isn't something he made up to manipulate Dean—he really truly believes what he's saying and he wants to be a good and righteous angel! His attitude is almost like season 4 Cas (who is so convinced that he's on a holy mission) but actually less cynical—more chivalrous.

He's already been injured by the fall, but when he hears Dean's prayer, he makes his way to him for no other reason than Dean prayed for the help of an angel!

He tries to deescalate the situation:

ANGEL: Forgive me, brother. I don't recognize you. GADREEL/EZEKIEL: Happy to make your re-acquaintance. After you disarm. [The angel pretends to be willing to talk but then attacks Gadreel] GADREEL/EZEKIEL: Come, now. Is that any way to treat a brother injured in the fall?

He indicates that (while we know he was in prison so he couldn't actually take action) he rooted for Cas's side.

GADREEL/EZEKIEL: Believe it or not, some of us still do believe in our mission. And that means we believe in Castiel...and you.

And of course—Cas's little mistake freed him from prison, so that's another reason he's not pissed at Cas like the rest of the angels. That said, I don't think Gadreel is being dishonest about being on Cas's side. I just think when the time comes, he's still too scared that Cas will reject him to risk an encounter (and that fear doesn't turn out to be unfounded to be fair).

He also chooses the alias of an angel Cas ends up vouching for with a smile, calling him a "good soldier". While I think Metatron is right to say in 9.09 that Gadreel chose to take Ezekiel's name because he had a good reputation (something Gadreel sorely lacks) I think his choice also suggests Gadreel and Cas have similar values, because they hold the same angel in high regard—and the angels in general liking some angel doesn't necessarily mean Cas thinks that highly of that angel, considering how much Cas has morally clashed with the rest of his brethren.

I've also talked before about Gadreel's vessel choice being very interesting. Almost all the other angels (the only exception I can think of being Samandriel) choose vessels that work corporate jobs. Their attire (among other things) aligns them with the upper class. Gadreel, on the other hand, asks a bartender to be his vessel. I think it's interesting that the two angels Dean seems to trust most immediately end up being Gadreel and Samandriel... and they ARE both angels who share Cas's stance on humanity more generally. At the same time, they're also not human, and just as we see with Cas sometimes, we see with Gadreel in season 9 that fealty to certain ideals leads angels (with the soldier's mindset) to be ruthless when they believe they are required to be to be righteous. And reputation matters a lot to them (see: season 6 Cas hiding what he's doing from absolutely everyone he knows, keeping Crowley as his dirty little secret).

Gadreel's problem is that his sense of chivalry is dampened by the terror he feels at the idea of being found out and thrown back into a cell for eternity. He wants to repair his reputation, and Metatron convinces him that restoring order in heaven will please God and re-legitimize him. Cas's season 4 mistakes were centered around the belief that he was serving God, which is what Metatron sells Gadreel on, and like Cas in season 4 (and again in season 12), Gadreel is also lured by the concept of paradise.

METATRON: You and I ... We could have paradise again, Gadreel.

Even when Metatron demands a test of his loyalty (while dangling the opportunity to become heaven's hero over his head like a tasty carrot) Gadreel refuses before even knowing who Metatron wants him to hurt:

METATRON: No, I mean REALLY sure. We have enemies who pose an imminent threat to our effort. They must be neutralized. GADREEL-IN-SAM: Slain? METATRON: In a word. GADREEL-IN-SAM: That... That is not who I am.

Gadreel proceeds to do several things he shouldn't do, but Metatron also lies to him at various points about the true nature of what he's doing because Metatron knows he can only push Gadreel so far before Gadreel morally objects. When Gadreel realizes that Metatron orchestrated the deaths of several angels he brainwashed and that he's going to hurt humanity, he accepts Metatron's true nature—that he isn't God's representative and nothing he's doing is righteous—and defects. After being wounded by MoC Dean, Gadreel tries to stop Cas from wasting grace healing him:

GADREEL: Please. I'll leave you alone, I swear. CASTIEL [reaching out to heal him]: We're not here to hurt you. GADREEL: No. Your Grace. Healing me will only weaken you. [CASTIEL doesn't even hesitant and instantly heals GADREEL]

Then in a last heroic act, Gadreel sacrifices himself to save humanity and the angels.

GADREEL: The only thing that matters in the end is the mission -- protecting those who would not and cannot protect themselves --the humans. None of us is bigger than that. And we will not let our fears, our self-absorption prevent us from seeing it through. Not anymore.

I MEAN?!?!?! It's just... so endearingly saturday-morning-superhero-cartoon style heroic. Knights of the round table heroic. It's endearing!

Even as he's dying to blow a hole in the cell to free Cas, he tells Hannah (who is keeping guard) in a superhero voice,

GADREEL: Run, sister.

[quibbs126]

I’m thinking about it, and I think Optimus banishing Megatron from Iacon with the High Guard was probably one of the worst decisions he could have made to deal with this situation

Because Optimus pretty much left him alone, outside of his home and I’m fairly certain the only remaining city on Cybertron, so to live out in the wilds of the surface, with a bunch of complete strangers whom they literally call nut-jobs and have a strong belief of “strength of one bot over another”, and are also much older and more experienced than him

And in leaving him with the High Guard, he’s likely isolated Megatron even more than if he was banished alone. Because while Optimus and the others have friends they can be vulnerable with and be comfortable talk about their feelings, Megatron does not know these people, and they don’t know him. But he’s now their leader in a group that values strength above all else, and emotions are usually considered a weakness in these sorts of settings. So not only does he have no one to talk to, he has to bottle up his very strong and raw emotions to appear stronger and worthy of his position, thus making them far worse and probably leading to unhealthy coping mechanisms

This could end up not being the case, and the High Guard are very considerate of his emotions. But it’s also very possible the case that they aren’t, or Megatron believes he can’t be vulnerable around them. They (the quartet I mean) don’t know these people, and they’ve really only seen them be violent and aggressive, and Megatron knows he’s an outsider to them. It’s a more likely scenario that they’ll be harmful to Megatron’s mental state rather than helpful

And again, they’re a lot older than him too, and they probably all know this, at least on some level. And thus, he’s far more likely to be influenced by the High Guard’s mentality and beliefs, which we already know aren’t great (even if it’s somewhat justified why they’re the way they are by this point). And assuming they’re pissed at Optimus as well, they could very well try to have Megatron distance himself from his old friends, and it be more successful than if he was alone

But moving away from the High Guard, there’s the fact that Optimus banished him from his home and left him to fend for himself, which Megatron would absolutely take personally just on its own. He was clearly not in a mentally stable place at that point and I think he thinks what he’s doing is right, he’s the one not being like Sentinel while Optimus is. It definitely isn’t right, but he thinks he is. And the banishment to him could not only be Optimus/Orion standing against him, but essentially him saying he’s given up on Megatron, making him leave his home. And I mean, Sentinel did kind of do this to the High Guard 50 cycles ago, so yet another parallel to be made between Optimus and Sentinel

But note that when I say all this, I don’t mean it as a criticism of the movie, that this is a flaw of the plot. I’m fairly certain this was 100% intentional by the writers. It wasn’t just Megatron that created Megatron and led to the war, it was Optimus too, even if he didn’t intend to

Optimus probably thought at the time that this was the best solution in dealing with him. He doesn’t agree with Megatron’s actions but he understands where it all comes from, and he was someone very important to him. So he probably doesn’t want to arrest him, punishing him for what he thought was right and making himself more like Sentinel, oppressing those who were supposed to be on his side. But he still has to be punished for his actions. So by banishment, he is punished while still being allowed to essentially be free, just not in Iacon, and maybe in turn he’ll see his wrongdoings and come back better. And even if the High Guard aren’t ideal, they did help Optimus and Elita rescue their friends, and maybe he thought at least with them he wouldn’t be alone in his thoughts. Also they agreed with Megatron’s ideals and probably shouldn’t be allowed to just roam free in Iacon, especially in this politically fragile state it is right now

But in doing so, Optimus essentially threw Megatron to the wolves and created the perfect environment for his anger and pain to fester and cause him to become more like the Megatron we know in the future

I’m not sure what the actual best solution would have been to this issue though. Maybe it would have been just jailing Megatron? Granted in the short term, it’d probably sting even worse for Megatron, that his own friend would lock him up, and it’d probably make him even more resentful. But at least there, he’d still be in Iacon, with his friends and people who want to help him, and with Optimus and Elita at the helm, they can probably see that he gets treated well and has access to people that can really help him work through it all and see what he did was wrong

But that’s not what happened

[stromuprisahat]

An icon, not an instigator

Six of Crows- Chapter 35 (Leigh Bardugo)

I've been thinking about this passage in connection to LB's words on Darklina, not quite able to put into words why it didn't sit well with me. First the quote, courtesy of @aleksanderscult :

I've analysed what Aleksander meant by this in the reply mentioning said interview. To put it shortly- I don't think he meant he expects Alina to manage his behaviour. It goes against his characterisation he'd let anyone control him in such way. He merely expressed his willingness to listen to her, should she disagree with him due to her moral stance.

LB herself puts her issue with certain tropes into two points:

Women shouldn't be expected to act as men's babysitter. He should change by himself.

Women don't have to be good. They, themselves could be even worse.

Her logic is faulty in several places.

First of all a woman acting as "a healer" as LB calls it doesn't necessarily mean she's somehow responsible for her partner's behaviour. It's merely about her influence helping him to overcome trauma or other effects harmful experience had on him. I'd even argue it's closer to what Matthias describes above, than whatever could Alina offer the Darkling. Ever.

You'd need specific qualities Alina never possessed. Empathy, caring, some amount of selflessness... What's the point of "addressing" a notion that doesn't have a leg to stand on?

While I agree that "a man should be able to better himself on his own" Helnik passage above has an important weak spot. A man should be able to better himself on his own without such change being significantly tied to a single person, especially if he's "rewarded" for his progress by romantic relationship with said person.

Genuine change should be driven by recognition of one's faults and resulting desire to become a better person, not a promise of possible relationship dangling in front of them. One that would be otherwise impossible.

While Matthias specifically happens to be a paragon of virtue, and once The Realization™ strikes, he never really falters, never tries to return to his old beliefs, ordinary people tend to struggle and doubt new ways less beneficial to them personally. Especially if their motivation happens to be external.

What happens when the one, who inspired his change is no longer around? What if they break up, his old ties severed and new ones either all business or acquaintances made through the ex-partner? Or are we ignoring the possibility that losing the benefits such change produced could lead the man to slip back to harmful patterns of behaviour and thinking as a way to justify one's failure to maintain the relationship or straight up revenge for ending it?

I'm sure no man would ever even think about that. Who'd be so petty or simply lost?!

This is why Malyen's change in R&R isn't believable. He "realized" his coercion led Alina to suicide attempt instead of expected eternal faithfulness, so he went through 180° turn of his behaviour. It's too sudden and too "perfect". Merely a changed tactics of abuse we shouldn't mistake for genuine betterment. "Look what you were willing to abandon!"

Matthias' case could be roughly fixed in this passage- don't make it all about Nina. Have him remember questioning drüskelle philosophy when Brum proudly showed him the laboratory. Or when he watched the broken body of a boy, who was ~someone's~ friend- make that the impulse to help Nina bury him. Have him remember seeing other Grisha as human, so his faith in their humanity doesn't seem so sudden and pussy-blinded.

Malyen's case would be much more complicated. His vices ~targeted~ Alina specifically. They were never openly admitted, described as such, he was never properly called out on them, certainly not by Alina herself. His doubtful development happened mostly off page in a way resembling just another kind of manipulation, and it didn't take long for it to "earn" him EXACTLY what he always wanted pre-change. He doesn't seem to mind the negative impacts of it any more than he did Alina's failing health previously.

To sum up once again- yes, women shouldn't be those to "fix" their man, but not because it's just wrong to expect them to do men's work, but because true change has to come from the inside. Others can help you realize there are "better" ways, but YOU're the one, who has to change the way you think. (Unless we're in Dead Dove territory, exploring all sorts of manipulation.)

Secondly it's kinda ironic reading LB's take on "Woman's rights AND wrongs", considering her strong tendency to moralize, shame and punish for any seeming "vice". Sure, she eventually changes the tune to "Women can do no wrong.", but that's equally stupid and harmful as the above mentioned Victorian take.

The way the books are written viewed through the lens of the interview turns likely a well-meant sentiment into the notion woman's some passive idol to worship by laying change at her feet, which wow- double creepy. Certainly more empowering than intentionally influencing or even FORCING the man to adapt to her requirements.

[sideprince]

I can't help but be skeptical. Bullies and abusers often paint themselves as victims to justify their actions to themselves - this can also lead to gaslighting and victim blaming. Sometimes they're really reaching, and sometimes they're enacting the same behaviors on others that someone enacted on them - violence begets violence etc. But that doesn't make it OK. Even if people aren't being bullies in real life, there's a dangerous mentality in enacting bullying behavior online or through fandom because it can lead to enacting it in daily life too.

The thing is, when someone posts something like "all _____ fans need psych evals" or deliberately tags a post to bait a specific fandom, that's deliberate provocation. It's the virtual form of stepping to someone and getting in their face, baiting them to ask the bully to back off so they can use it as an excuse to attack. If the person being baited raises their voice, the bully can use it to say they started the argument when they were doing nothing and shout all the abuse they want. If they put their hand on the bully to hold them back because they're scared, the bully can say they started it and throw a punch. But the act of deliberate provocation is itself a red flag at best, and outright bullying at worst.

Bullying is about control (much like abuse, which is no surprise since they're on the same spectrum). And if you look through posts in the Snapedom, then you'll see that five years ago there was a lot more meta and character exploration, whereas now the dominant theme seems to be arguing back against haters. The narrative has literally been changed - the bullies are controlling it and dominating the conversation even when they aren't actually present. How many posts from the past couple of years are just people arguing against something a hater/Marauders stan said, whether it's directly or in a new post that avoids the conflict of a direct interaction? How much of the discourse around this character is now being shaped by reactions to antis?

The conversation, and perception of the character, is being controlled by bullies who aren't interested in respecting others in the wider fandom, and instead mimic the behavior of their faves, especially when those faves are Marauders, and deliberately target not just Snape as a character but the part of the fandom who finds him compelling and engages with him. That's bullying. It doesn't matter what these people's personal experiences are, if their actions are deliberately targeting certain people and doing so with aggression, even if it's only verbal, that's bullying. And it's likely that this behavior is not different than how these people engage with others in their offline lives, only more exaggerated.

You can think of yourself as an outcast or a misfit and still be a bully. You can be a victim of bullying and still enact that behavior on others. "I was also bullied" isn't a get out of jail free card, you have to check your own behavior. As for what an outcast or a misfit even is, it's subjective, but someone claiming that identity doesn't excuse ba behavior, and it doesn't mean that much especially in the Marauders fandom. Look at James and Sirius - Rowling (boo, hiss) saw them as misfits, talks about them as misfits, but are they? They considered themselves the "height of cool" according to Lupin. They were recruited by Dumbledore himself to fight against Voldemort. Yet they're supposed to be misfits because Sirius rode a motorbike and James... was Head Boy and got married and started a family right after school ended, I guess? Rowling wrote that short story for charity where James and Sirius mess with a pair of cops, but it's not really conveying any kind of anti-policing message, it's just a 2 page short story about a pair of wizards who use a youthful rejection of authority as an excuse to muggle-bait.

Look, some of this character analysis will inevitably be subjective no matter what. I won't claim that my analysis of James and Sirius is any kind of objective fact. But that's also kind of the point - fandom is based around media, and media is inevitably subjective. Anyone trying to assert their subjective perspective as truth is misguided, but doing that in a way that asserts a perspective deliberately onto others and tries to force them to agree, especially using aggression and online harassment and abuse is absolutely bullying. Just because a person says they were bullied or are a misfit or outcast etc. doesn't mean that's their whole story. Their own actions and conduct speak for themselves.

I just post this in spanish because i was on the train and lazy to translate but i'm gonna say the same in english just for my international non-spanish-speakers fellas

Honestly, I’d really like to hear a coherent argument that justifies the constant bashing Snape gets in the fandom because, to this day, I haven’t read anything that makes me think he deserves the sheer amount of crap thrown at him. Like, what’s the worst thing he did in his life? Insult someone? Join a group of idiots and then leave? Not be able to stand a bunch of annoying kids who were always getting into trouble? I don’t know, it sounds a lot like the trajectory of your average adult to me.

[the-insomniac-emporium]

everybody [exaggeration] I know is playing BG3 and having fun with the emotional trauma of Durge and I'm over here

like.

yes, I too am playing the game where I'm a goody-two-shoes amnesiac who is horrified to find out that they used to be a REALLY terrible/violent/ruthless individual <------ [is playing Kingdoms of Amalur: Re-Reckoning]

[naarlar]

Okay so I’ve seen a lot of people being like “oh Eurylochus is not a hypocrite bc he didn’t intentionally sacrifice the crew with Circe like Odysseus did with Scylla”

And while yes it is not the same, uh…….. here’s the problem from my perspective and why I still totally think he’s a hypocrite.

He was the one who had those men under his command. Odysseus gave him a mission and for that mission, Eurylochus was in charge of those guys. Then he LOSES (yes it is his fault, he was responsible for those men) the men to Circe and then runs back to Odysseus and immediately is trying to leave. He in a way is actively choosing to ABANDON those men without even TRYING to attempt a plan to save them. Like he doesn’t even think about it.

Yes Odysseus and the Scylla situation are messed up and it is not the same as Eurylochus and the Circe situation, but sorry guys this man is absolutely still a hypocrite. For his own self preservation he was about to abandon a bunch of men HE LOST to a supposed evil. The only difference is that Ody did it deliberately while Eurylochus’ incompetence caused it.

And here’s the thing, we can argue that Odysseus bc of the Scylla situation is more of a monster than Eury. I’m not even saying the mutiny is not justified. IT ABSOLUTELY WAS. The crew absolutely should have mutinied and Eury was right to challenge Ody.

However, these characters are complex and like yeah, Ody is a monster and a conniving schemer, but he is ultimately just a man trying to get home. And Eury is a fool and a hypocrite that would abandon his men for his mistakes but he is also just a tired man who is starving and suffering.

[smile-files]

i continue to find ii3 baffling. why did they make it (this isn't to hate on the season, i'm genuinely curious)

[magpiemirroring]

Glad to have finally run across this criticism.

Here's a meatier version of that quote: "You’ve always wanted to cure what you thought were weaknesses. Your leg. Your disease. But you were never broken, Viktor. There is beauty in imperfections."

I would love to know what the writing room reasoning behind this was, because it's such a swing and miss.

I feel like maybe the writers had two ideas they wanted to get across and combined them in a really clumsy way:

Jayce acknowledging how Viktor's struggles gave him some bad ideas about his self-worth in general and that played a part in the choices he made. (And perhaps how Jayce's own choices fed into that.)

People are imperfect in a lot of ways, but a lot of beauty comes out of those imperfections and so turning people into one weird hive mind made of "perfect" forms is getting rid a lot of good things.

I wish the pacing of the show and this scene had been different. Because I do think we needed a scene where Jayce says something that reaches out and acknowledges the very imperfect and real human feelings that led Viktor down this path to begin with.

Viktor's a mess with some real self-worth issues and I think in terms of character arcs and motivations, this scene really did need for Jayce to touch on Victor's own imperfect humanity. But rather than lines that read as "your terminal condition is beautiful, why are you trying to fix it?" we needed more of a "I never thought less of you for being sick/disabled. I admired your skills! I was too distracted by my own ambitions to understand what you were going through. I'm done with that now. I'm here. Let's fix this. Together." sort of beat.

Which. I will agree with OP is difficult to write in-character for Jayce to say quickly, while thinking on his feet as it were. He is not really a people skills person. But it has to be his words that stop Viktor. Not just because the show literally says so, lmao, but because even without all the weird arcane stuff, their arcs are bound together and more than anything, Viktor needs a friend to reach past everything he's done and what he's become and See Him and love him for who he is with all his flaws (not in a shippy way. like. not against rolling with ship feels here lmao but it needs to resonate even for folks that aren't looking at the scene thru shipping goggles in order for it to really land.)

But ultimately, yeah, this scene was sloppy in a way that was rather insulting to real world folks with debilitating chronic conditions or terminal illnesses. I can turn this scene around and around in my head and try to work out intent, or headcanon a Watsonian reason for why it works for the characters, but at the end of the day, what was written was not well written and I think folks are justified in being angry about it. I am, in a weird way, excited to find that other people are angry about it! It's not just me!

Heck, while I wanted to discuss it in a larger content, the "you were never broken" line annoys me all by itself. (this is a bit of a long aside! you may skip it if you like.) I don't have any major physical issues at this time but I had had some mental health issues, including a major case of autistic burnout that has left me feeling a bit broken. And it's not been helpful to me to be told that I'm not broken. It is a rare person who gets through life without being physically or mentally broken at some point. It happens to some people more easily and some people heal better than others. It is what it is. People generally mean well when they say "you're not broken." Sometimes they mean that you're still you. They view things that are broken as no longer having value but they still value you, so you must not be broken. But sometimes they just say that because it is easier to say that than to sit with the rough edges and they want to ignore your hurt because it's inconvenient to them to acknowledge what has changed. Some folks break and will always have visible mends. And some folks can't be mended or find mending is out of reach. Being broken means having to be careful of yourself and the choices you make and with the people that insist that you aren't broken it's always a gamble of how much they are willing to tolerate being careful of all your rough edges and delicate parts that need special handling, whether you're mending or not. So, for me, "you're not broken" feels like people are trying to ignore a crucial part of my experience and life. (This is just my take. If you are disabled or ill and don't finding embracing the idea of being broken to be a framework that works for you, that's fine! Also, to be clear, I do not view autism itself as something that makes me broken, but it does cause me to be prone to some breakage without accommodations.)

I am about to be critical of Arcane because this one bugs me.

The "you were never broken" speech is a fucking stupid thing to say to someone who was terminally ill.

Viktor seeing himself and other disabled people as broken is a problem and Salo's "who else could mend such a broken creature" as a reason for worshipping Viktor and Viktor's easy acceptance of that is creepy.

Still a fucking stupid thing to say.

Jayce saying it is fine, Jayce says many fucking stupid things.

The narrative frames it as helpful, important, and true, which is less fine.

DESPITE framing it this way it doesn't seem to help, which is not a problem, because it SHOULDN'T help but is weird.

Viktor doesn't even seem to be listening.

Did it need to be there at all? Could it just have been cut?

[fluentisonus]

while we're talking about it though that's something really fundamental to spock's character I think in a way I don't always see discussed, that by joining starfleet he's making the explicit and intentional choice that he'd rather be seen as a perfect example of an alien amongst humans than as an imperfect vulcan amongst vulcans. I see this framed a lot as him being more accepted in starfleet than he was on vulcan, and I really don't think that's the case at all: he's still very attached to vulcan, and we see all the prejudice he has to face and how little he's understood in starfleet. but what it comes down to is that he'd rather exist in a place where no one understands him and so he has nothing to prove -- even if that means being very alone -- than in a place where he's surrounded by the familiar & meaningful but everyone can see the ways he can't quite fit. if that makes sense

[good-to-drive]

whyyyyy do the beatles have so many solo stans this site is so weird

[sableprince]

i really want to sit down and make a proper Real lore doc for these goobers and not just the paragraphs of shtuff from whatever-ago, but like....... (buries myself underneath the dirt) lazy!!!!!!!

[lilvoidcreature13]

1. Where the fuck are you meeting snape fans who whitewash Snape and his actions? The biggest appeal to Snape fans is his grey morality, which is way more interesting than the majority of other characters. He's literally the smallest drop of realism in a very black and white book series. Also the majority of the Snape fans I interact with acknowledge that there were compounding factors to Severus's numerous problems, James is just one of those factors since James Canonically bullied him. Perhaps you're confusing Snape fans discussing pre-fifth year Snape as a discussion on post fifth year Snape?

2. What do you mean Severus wasn't an innocent little boy who got picked on? That literally what happened. James and Sirius literally started calling him Snivilous five minutes after knowing the guy because he wanted to be in Slytherin. Maybe I've been touching too much grass lately, but innocent ≠ good person, it means: not guilty of a crime and thus undeserving of punishment. Is wanting to be in Slytherin a crime to you? Is an 11 year old half blood raised in a muggle town 'supposedly' knowing more dark spells than a 17 year old wizard (an adult by their cultures standards) a crime worthy of punishmpent to the degree that the Mauraders dished out? Why don't you use some canon to justify you stance that an 11 year old deserved to be bullied.

3. Snape didn't bully the Mauraders, you need to put down the fanon and look at the actual canon, honey. He "gave as good as he got" according his his bullies but we seen in his memories that it was the Mauraders who initiated the fights, and I'm sorry to tell you this but someone fighting back does make them 'just as bad' as the people who started the fights. It's why things like Zero Tolerance Policy didn't actually prevent bullying.

Now if you wanted to make the argument that Snape bullied people, we have been told that he called other people mudblood before he called Lily it, which I would count as bullying. Then again, I've been told by Bambi Stans that name calling isn't really bullying so who knows 🤷🏽‍♀️. (I'm being sarcastic here, I'm just pointing out a hypocrisy I've seen in James Stans when it comes to bullying.)

4. It wasn't mutual. "Giving as good as you get" Isn't mutual when the Mauraders are the ones starting the fights. Also there's no canon that suggests Severus ever tried to kill the Mauraders, nor is there any canonical evidence that Snape ever put the Mauraders upside down, showed people their underwear and then threaten to take off said underwear. Those are the Canonical actions of the Mauraders.

5. Also what do you mean Severus stayed as a selfish racist his whole life? Did you not read the books? Or at least watch the movies? Because I don't know if you know this but he switched sides. He literally told one of the Black paints to not say mudblood around him. Where's your canon evidence that he remained a wizard racist?

5.5 your seriously gonna call Severus actions selfish? I don't know if you know this but when someone's selfish, they teld to act in a way that is self serving, they do what's best for themselves even at the cost of another being. What Severus did was promise Dumbledore anything in exchange for Lily's safety, after he found out he indirectly put her in danger with the prophecy. Did he actonhis guilt? Yeah, butto call this selfish issue nonsensical that I think sociologist aughtto observe you. A selfish person would have found a way to alleviate their guilt in a way that doesn't involve: Going to the enemy for help, offering up anything inexchange for the safety of another person, and putting themselves in danger by spying on the group that's known for torturing people for fun all in the name of protecting someone else. Then, when Dumbledore fails to uphold his side of the bargain, aka Lily still dies in the end, Snape still continues to stay by Dumbledores' side being a teacher, which he clearly doesn't like doing, while waiting for Voldy to comment back, even though Dumbledore wasn't able to keep up his side of the bargain. Snape then has to keep saving Harry from dangers the boy chases after in the shadows, doing this while not taking any credit or expecting praise. He literally turns himself into a murder, something he was apprehensive on doing, because two people have asked him to do it so Draco can be spared. These are not the actions of a Selfish man trying to alleviate guilt, guilt won't carry you to these kinds of lengths, self reservation overrides that.

6. The ages for 1 to 25 are the most formative years of our lives, our minds learn and absorb everything ad ingrains things into our minds so that we can still recall thigs we have learned when our brains are still developing. Of course Snape isn't gonna just 'get over it'. There are literally no avenues for him to 'get over it'. Therapy was heavily sigatized and did cost money. There was no justice, no one to say that what the Mauraders did wasn't ok, just people in a crowd laughing as Severus is pubically assaulted.

7. James never changed, he bullied people up until 7th year, dispite being head boy. He goes out, as an adult, and speads around muggles, gets chaised by the police and death Eaters, and decides to Levitate the muggle car up in the air to crash into the DEs, then they just leave the muggle police with the DEs, and then he dies. Marrying a girl does magically turn a shitty person into an ok person, "good girls can fix bad boys" is not evidence of a change in behaviors, it's a fanfiction trope.

These next parts are gonna hurt you feelings. I contemplated not saying this but decided that if you comfortable making statements like "he should get over it" you aught to be comfortable with hearing some actual critism.

As some who got her shirt ripped down in a hallway full of classmates as a 'joke' and got told tgat it was ny fault for being 'provacative' (aka having big boobs), you can go fuck yourself if you think Severus should just get over it. I try to be as nice as i can, but Im not always successful in that edevor when it comes to SA apologists. You don't get to tell survivors of SA that they need to get over it, other SA survivors don't get to tell their fellow survivors that they need to get over a formative event in their lives. Would you tell black people that they need to get over Slavery? Would you tell Jewish people, and the other groups that were killed in the camps, that they need to get over it? I don't know how your capable of saying something so un-empathetic and yet still make a post like this presenting yourself as a "hold Snape accountable, racism is bad" person. The mental gymnastics are Olympic Level.

And before anyone says: it's not SA. Go argue with the wall because there's only two reason you wouldn't consider SWM SA.

1. You thing exposing people's private area against their will is ok.

2. You don't think men can be assaulted.

In either case you need to stay away from people, your gonna hurt someone.

The psychology of snape lovers needs to be studied i fear

I don't like snape but you can if you want (none of this is that big of a deal) but the people who act like snape was perfect and all his problems were caused by James just baffle me. Yes the Marauders were bad to Snape, but Snape was not an innocent lil boy who happened to get picked on. He was just as responsible for his actions at that age as they were, if your going to hate James for bullying you have to remember Snape was doing the same thing! It was mutual hatred. Snape was not a helpless baby he was a wizard racist! He continued to be a selfish racist person his whole life and hated on children for no reason. He held grudges about things that happened at 15 till he was almost 40. He only left the deatheaters because they were going to kill lily, he didn't care if they killed James and Harry. He was selfish till he died, his friendship with lily was ruined by him and him alone. James was a rude 15 years old, but he grew as a person. Snape didn't.

[the-busy-ghost]

Warning- this is a very petty post, but I think I'm entitled to at least one petty, pissed-off reaction every time I finish a classic novel that hit harder than I expected so take this as my quota for the year.

Also spoiler warning for a book that came out over a century ago but still, I didn't know the plot going in so don't want to ruin it for anyone else, if you haven't read it shut your eyes. (Also Local Tumblr User Going Wild Over Book Published a Hundred Years Ago That Everybody Else Already Read should probably be categorised as akey part of indigenous tumblr culture at this point).

Anyway I just finished the War of the Worlds and in between studying I've thinking about Themes and Motifs as you do, and idly looking for further analysis. I then accidentally ran into an article called 'A Quiet Place II Succeeds Where the War of the Worlds Failed' and:

Now I haven't seen any of the Quiet Place films, this is not a rant against them and of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But re: the ending of The War of the Worlds, I have to ask, did this guy somehow miss, uh, the entire point of the book or am I just utterly insane?

[maraskywalkers]

baby you're a bad idea was updated and I am

[absensia-archived]

the more I think about it, the more I'm not so sure that Charlotte sees the difference between regret and remorse. if she does see and understand the difference, I can't say for sure that she particularly cares that she frequently conflates the two in her mind and experience, and why that is wrong.