#thetis being supportive

[aj-thegreatest]

Why Persephone and Minthe are (or could've been) Perfect Foils:

I’m starting this off with 3 things: 1) This’ll be less of an essay and more of a ramble, so apologies if this is messy! 2) I’m framing this as a “what if this was written in a non misogynistic way,” and less(?) based on canon. And 3) If an essay like this already exists…oops!

Ok. So we can all generally agree that Persephone and Minthe, as love rivals, function as foils for each other. Persephone is the sweet, young, and naive girl who doesn’t know what sex is. Minthe is the mature, sexy, and stone cold older woman who’s too sexually active. 

They both villainize and hurt each other, ignoring the man who’s actually perpetuating their suffering. The story makes it seem like they’re completely opposed characters, with Persephone being the “better” one. And to an extent, that’s true. 

But I think we could dive deeper! And away from Hades! Because he sucks!

If we compare Persephone and Minthe’s lives and how they view each other, you could make a strong case for them being foils. It’d honestly be brilliant if they reconciled in a meaningful way, BUT-

Let’s start with the basics: while Persephone grew up with an attentive mother, Minthe grew up largely ignored by hers. Persephone grew up around a supportive community, with most of her needs met. And while we only see a peek into Minthe’s childhood, it can be inferred those needs were not easily met. Minthe had to provide for herself, shown by her jobs before Underworld Corp. 

Meanwhile, a lot of Persephone’s opportunities were “handed” to her. Artemis offers to let Persephone stay with her. She gets inducted into TGOEM without any trouble. Demeter most likely is paying for her schooling. She gets placed in Underworld Corp, despite having no experience (and out of her control. Hera what the hell). And gets paid for her internship, something she gets because of her relationship with Hades.

Minthe has continually worked for everything. Persephone hasn’t worked for any of the stuff she gets. But she wants to! Persephone so badly wants to be independent. She dreams of living on her own, dressing the way she wants, being in a relationship. And who is the first being she sees that represents all of it for her?

Minthe is the physical manifestation of everything Persephone wants to be. It’s also why she dresses like her in later seasons. And Minthe is clearly jealous of Persephone. Is it because she’s flirting with Hades? To some extent, yes. But Minthe also feels Persephone is better than her. She’s the sweet goddess who everyone loves, especially Hades’ trusted allies (Hera, Hecate, etc). 

I think if they got to know each other, they’d be envious of what the other had. Minthe would love to have a mother like Demeter: someone who took care of her and gave her what she needed. She needs a support system and people to rely on. Not a toxic friend who prays on her downfall (Thetis what the hell). 

Persephone wants a mother who won’t hover over her. Control of her life, freedom, and the ability to be her true self. Wear whatever she wants. She doesn’t want to be the kind, sweet girl all the time. She wants to have sex! After marriage apparently because uh…yeah. 

A brief deviation: Even their aesthetics are contrasts. Persephone wears white and pink, while Minthe wears reds and blacks. Minthe’s clothes are revealing and conventionally sexy. Persephone’s are cute and conventionally girly. 

Both Minthe and Persephone are stuck in roles that feel inescapable. Which are enforced by Hades, the narrative, and the fandom (at the time). Something something Madonna Whore Complex.

In an ideal story, where they equally like all the women, Minthe and Persephone would’ve reconciled. Come to some understanding of the other and grow as a result. But…that doesn’t happen. 

Really, they just switch places. Minthe becomes accepted in the Mortal Realm. She gets all the support Persephone had. While Persephone gets all the glitz and glam Minthe supposedly had. It all works out! 

…I mean, not really but-

Like Minthe barely gets mentioned at the very end. Persephone spends most of it stressed, hated by her citizens. All the things Minthe feared at the start!

But then she gets her happy ending. Isn’t this great? The character who wanted independence from her mother and everyone, ends up stuck in a marriage without truly finding herself. And with kids we, the audience, don’t know if she wanted? 

All that matters is Hades wants kids. So Persephone needs to have them. Hades wants to break up with Minthe, so she gets planted and moves from his realm. Funny how everything works out for him, right? 

This doesn’t really have an ending. All I can say is, I wish Minthe and Persephone had a chance to stand on their own. And to talk to each other without a man getting in the way…

…which is why you should read my fanfic, PomengranMints-

[hyacinthusmemorial]

TW: Mentions of SA

In my works, and other places, people have been asking me my opinion on Achilles attacking Troilus. I would just preface I’m not an expert on the Trojan War. I was sick the week we did the Iliad in high school and they made me perform as Odysseus when we read the Odyssey and i had no clue what was happening, but I am in the process of reading it now.

I think if you are studying these events from the perspective of the god Apollo, then Achilles kind of loses his Brad Pitt appeal that the movie Troy (which I have never seen) gives him. So if Achilles is your guy, stop reading. I’m thought dumping.

There is something wicked and powerful about Achilles k*lling and r*ping Apollo’s own son on his own altar in his own temple. Because that is the implication of the iconography and artwork.

Achilles drags Troilus by his hair to the altar of his father and the story doesn’t say if Achilles r*pes him, but it is implied. For one it talks about Achilles being overcome with lust for Troilus, who is the image of Apollo in human form. A beautiful golden haired, youth.

Not only is Troilus the son of Hecuba, he’s Apollo’s image. Sources say he is the most beautiful of the Trojans and Greeks. But he has been designated a fate where he represents the city of Troy. Hence the name Troilus. If he reaches adulthood, the city survives. If he dies as a youth, the city will fall.

Athena leads Achilles to Troilus to ensure his death and thus Troy’s fall. She does not account for HOW Achilles kills Troilus.

He sees Troilus on his horse, and he is overcome with lust. I think he probably offers Troilus some sort of deal, come sleep with me and I will let you and your sister go, but Troilus refuses and runs away and hides in his father’s temple. He is a little kid running to his father for help. But, Achilles breaks in, finds Troilus, and enraged kills him either on or near the altar of Apollo.

Troilus is the image of Apollo. He is his son. He is a prince of Troy. I think this is a tipping point for everything—the point of no return.

This seals Troy’s fate, but I think the reason for that are because of Troilus’s death. I think before this point there is the possibility there will be peace. I think Big Bro Hector would have sent Helen back, I think peace would have been sued for and Troy would stand. But Fate has to be accomplished. This is the point where Troy no longer gives a damn—their prince has been m*rdered and r*ped on the altar of their chief god. Priam is upset because he loved Troilus as his own son, and he calls Achilles a child-slaughterer after that. Hecuba is besides herself, and Hector wants to kill Achilles. I think this is the point where they decide that, yes, they are going to die fighting this war, but they have a GOOD REASON to. It’s not about Paris and Helen and Aphrodite and a dumb apple. It’s about a boy being murdered.

But Apollo, Apollo is now vengeance. He is acting as an arm of fate. He’s already peeved at Achilles, who had killed another son Tenes. (A different story about Achilles r*ping someone)

I said this to one of my commenters—an altar is a god’s dinner table. Apollo’s hands are tied by something—either Fate or Thetis or his Father, and he cannot stop Achilles who is savagely attacking his own son on his own table. He has to watch, has to sit there and taste his own son’s blood in his mouth, watch him brutally die.

Achilles’s fate is sealed. Apollo is going to kill Achilles. It’s just nine years later.

In the art, Thetis, Athena, Apollo and Hermes are in the background of this event. Athena and Thetis as support of Achilles, but it makes me curious what Hermes is doing there. Is he holding Apollo back? Has Thetis begged Zeus for Achilles life? Athena regretfully watching as she accomplishes her plan only to realize WHY it worked?

I think in this way you can fashion the Trojan War as a direct conflict between Apollo and Achilles. Everything else is going on around it, but at the heart of it, is Apollo and Achilles. Apollo waiting for his father and the fates to give him the go ahead because Achilles will die, and Apollo is going to take away everything from him in the process. Briseis, Patroclus, and then he’s going to take his life.

Achilles is the villain in Apollo’s story. He’s invulnerable, he’s circumventing fate, he r*pes anything under his power, he disrespects the gods. He is a lesson in what men do when no one can stop them, and the most powerful thing is that the Father wins. He finds and kills his son’s murderer even after all the roadblocks in his way.

Troy is a revenge story, and if I ever get to writing it in my series, it’s going to be written like a revenge story.

[scorpionickiss]

Asteroid Vulcan 4464

TW: trauma mentioned.

here i will try to provide my own interpretation on the asteroid :p i am not a professional astrologer so take everything with a grain of salt.

vulcan is the Roman god of fire and destruction. he was the second son of jupiter and juno and the husband of venus. sometimes, he would be summoned to calm down fires. he was the father of caeculus, founder of Praeneste. his greek equivalent is hephaestus. he is considered the god of oven trade, arms, jewelry, metalworking.

he plots revenge against his mother, crafting her a deceitful golden throne. he did that because she exiled him for being born ugly. after being thrown off from mount olympus, he landed into the ocean, where he was raised by a sea nymph, thetis. his interest for fire and metalworking happened there.

during his adventures under the sea, he found the remains of a fisherman's fire, thus an unextinguished coal fascinated him, as it was still glowing. he took this coal to his grotto and made a fire with it. in the second day after he ignited it, he noticed that ”certain stones sweated iron/silver/gold.” in the third day the cooled metal was formed into jewelry.

one day, vulcan's foster mother left the grotto to attend a dinner party in mount olympus, wearing a necklace that vulcan made for her. ultimately, she got noticed by juno, who asked where was the necklace from. having thetis' reaction, juno became suspicious and later she realised how her son became a blacksmith.

so, what could this mean in a chart?

IN MY OPINION it may refer to places where you are forced to work on under pressure of heavy emotions. it refers to places where you have to work on your own and with some support outside of your family. in can refer to places where you may feel abandoned and where you fear abandonment, even places that caused such fears. surely, it represents areas of life that causes most trauma for you and parts of yourself that you are forced to transform, but it is for the greater good because once those purified, you will meet so much prosperity based on the placement of the asteroid.

ARIES/1ST HOUSE  1, 13, 25°.

you may have had a lot of transformative experiences regarding your image, and the way you act. depending on how the 1st house behaves in your chart, you are forced to do whatever it takes to achieve your purpose and to make yourself heard. if any planets are in the first house, you are forced to work on any hardships caused by those planets.

TAURUS/2ND HOUSE  2, 14, 26°

if you have vulcan in this placement, i feel like you might have gone through narcissistic abuse. someone might have been overly possesive towards you. if you are a woman and this asteroid is in afflicted aspect (square, opposition and even semisquare) to neptune/saturn/jupiter, i feel like you might have suffered a lot because you had a lot of expectations upon you.

GEMINI/3RD HOUSE 3, 15, 27°

you might have had a lot of conflicts in your near environment. you might have been bullied a lot in school and maybe by your neighbours. you might have been mocked for the way of your speaking. however, over time, you might become a master communicator and might have a job in areas relating to communication.

CANCER/4TH HOUSE  4, 16, 28°

might have had an absent mother figure. a lot of pressure in the family and might have suffered because of people who have extreme views about homeland. because you suffered in your family, you might have had tendencies to plot revenge against them. your mother figure might have not supported you in pursuing your dreams. could grow bitter over mother.

LEO/5TH HOUSE  5, 17, 29°.

you could be a pretty isolated individual. you are a very creative individual but any creative endeavor of yours might have been shamed on. might have been bullied as a kid because of the way you expressed yourself. i think that drama could surround you, you might have been involved in drama during your childhood, which might have created psychological blockages that affected self expression.

VIRGO/6H HOUSE  6, 18°

you might have been shunned away for being too kind. i feel like you could have been the kind kid who got bullied a lot for no reason. could have some health issues that you are forced to work through, and you will be very blessed once you do. i feel like you are forced to work under a lot of pressure in your work place and this effort would be greatly appreciated.

LIBRA/7TH HOUSE 7, 19°

if you have this, i feel like you might have abandoment issues because of some past trauma related to relationships. you might have been criticised to how you connect to others and this might have led to an isolation. might have had difficulties in marriages, and the damage caused by them might have also made you isolated.

SCORPIO/8TH HOUSE 8, 20°

this is very intense. with this placement, and individual could have gone through a lot of transformative experiences while developing. this might have been very discouraging to them, and any time they tried to rise up they were punished. however, with this aspect, i feel like all these things forced you to reach a higher, purified version of yourself.

SAGGITARIUS/9TH HOUSE 9, 21°

you could be very fascinated with spirituality and be shamed for it. you could say that you are spiritually gifted, but there might have been times where people did not believe you. you might find yourself fearing abandonment from people from different cultural backgrounds. you could be very wise, but maybe nobody took you seriously until you grew up.

CAPRICORN/10TH HOUSE 10, 22°

might have been very affected by male figures, like father, boss, and such. IF you are healed, i feel like you could feel very secure around masculine people and benefit a lot from them and if not, i feel like some insecurities related to abandoment might arise because of their behaviour. if you are a woman, you could have female rage because such presences.

AQUARIUS/11TH HOUSE 11, 23°

might have abandonment issues because of friendships that were gained in an online environment or in large groups. i feel like you might be an idealsitic person, but people never respected your ideas until they actually saw achievements of yours if you had any. might be very quiet in friend groups.

PISCES/12TH HOUSE 12, 24°

with this placement, you might have been prone to delusions during developing. like saggitarius/9h, i feel like you could have be highly intuitive but people could take advantage because of that. you might have been idealising people and things and you might have suffered because of that. i think you are an empathetic individual, but you could have been shamed for it and shunned away.

A/N a more in depth study on this asteroid will be on my patreon SOON.

if these do not resonate, consult the PERSONA CHART of this asteroid. also, if the degree of the placement is low(close to 30°) it may mean that the impact of this asteroid might not be felt as intensely. (29° AND 18° MAY MAKE AN EXCEPTION) of course, the impact of this asteroid also depends on the other planets/points/asteroids surrounding it. - however, in my opinion, the intensity of this asteroid may not be smoothened in the case of the following placements of degrees: saturn/cancer/mars/mercury degrees are bound to saturn/cancer/mars/mercury/pluto.

want a reading for this asteroid?

how to read the persona chart of this asteroid

[mer-acle]

Alright, so let's talk a little bit about some family relations within Silent Wars.

So we have some characters that we have to fit in and it's made more difficult by the fact that not everybody can be related like they would be in the myths.

So we've got of course, we've got the Cronides, we've got the second generation Olympians, we've got some Titans to fit in.

I'm not going to go overboard with the amount of people that will be there, like I'm not going to go with any other children than the Olympians and too many Titans unless they are like necessary for the plot.

So I decided that Rhea and Cronos are going to be parents of Zeus, not Hera. Cronos is a pretty abusive dad, so Zeus went no contact with him pretty soon.

Both of his wives, Metis and after that Hera totally encouraged this and were on his side during it because they both hated Cronos' guts.

But since Cronos has died, Zeus is able to have a relationship with his mother again and Rhea is a proper grandmother to Ares, Athena and Hephaestus.

Which leaves of course the question of who are Hera's parents?

I want to make her a foster child for the very simple reason that that's basically implied within the Iliad of her being a foster child to Okeanos and Thetys, so that's what we'll do.

I'm going to have her adopted pretty young. I'm also going to have her be the sister to Demeter and Hestia and all of them grew up with Okeanos and Thetys who are the other grandparents that the children have.

I'm going to have Poseidon be Zeus's brother, not yet decided whether it's to be the older or younger one.

And Hades is not going to be related to anybody else.

He is going to be first of all British and he is going to be with Persephone which is Demeter's daughter ofc.

And the reason about his British is because I want them to live overseas to kind of work with the underworld myth.

Which of course makes Demeter very sad because her daughter lives very far away and it's very hard to visit a lot of the time.

So Demeter lives in the countryside within the same state as the main characters do.

(I have no idea where they live but same state.)

Hestia lives more close by to Hera and Zeus.

She also helps a lot with Hephaestus especially, just helps take care of him if the need arises and supports her sister with that cos Zeus is a mess.

Then we have of course the younger children, the second-generation Olympians and all of these are going to be Zeus's children besides Aphrodite.

Of course we have the trio of Athena, Ares and Hephaestus who live with Zeus and Hera.

We also have the twins, Apollo and Artemis who are both 15 years old at the time of the story and live with Leto.

We have Hermes who is about 14, who's also with his mother, he's friends with Apollo and Artemis.

(They know that they're siblings, they figured it out. Later plotpoint.)

And then we would have Dionysus but he's much younger and would not be born yet at the time of the story because I never know what to do with him (sorry Dio). He's probably going to show up at the end.

And yes that is my quick summary of the familial relations in Silent Wars :3

[katerinaaqu]

Finished Chapter 14 of The Song of Achilles and like you I already found one change that gets on my nerves. Why is Odysseus now the Prince of Ithaca? When he was already King by the events of the original poem? What was Madeline Miller’s purpose in demoting him from King to Prince?

This better have a payoff or else… without Odysseus being King I feel his 20 year absence from Ithaca has less serious consequences. I think without him being King of Ithaca, his wife’s suitors wouldn’t be so eager to replace him.

Well I will start with what me and other classics readers say, that Miller is extremely biased with certain characters and that shows in her writing (true she writes in a very beautiful way and has great expression but still...) so certain characters are depicted positively and others negatively (no surprise or news there) and she writes in a feministic way so certain characters in the background are bound to be disregarded or worse changed. However most people have come to know that her writing of characters is really inaccurate or that it comes straight from her imagination (see for example how in order to get her romcom aura we must see a "homophobic character" aka Thetis who acts almost as a villain, we see the stereotype of star-crossed lovers like Achilles and Patroclus (which is a trope she uses by combining elements from the original but ignoring the character development of others in order to fortify her message) etc.

That being said, Miller's style seems to me like she uses SOME elements of the original, blasts them out of proportions, altering it to be more simplified to fit a romcom setting and re-writes the rest to fit the characters. I am not 100% famliar with her books given how I haven't read them in the full but I have seen stuff around and read some passages so take this hypothesis with a grain of salt but this seems to be the case to me. So in this case it is clear that Miller doesn't see Odysseus in a very positive light (given what she goes with to her other novels as well) so yeah her trying to lesser his importance or the status in the story seems more than just a possibility to me.

So here goes my reply, sorry if this is long:

In this case she seems to take advantage of the fact that in translations there is no distinct difference in the text between the word "prince" or "king" in the homeric text (both are being stated by the term άναξ (anax->wanax, from mycenean greek as well) and is being used to speak on the ruler that has under his command the ships and the army. That is to be said some of the commanders of the greek army had living parents back home and Odysseus was included among them. It seems like Laertes was in a way retired since indeed Odysseus seemed to be a king in his own right, in fact Penelope even insinuates he had been so for a long time, given how she tells Antinous the story of his father who arrived to the palace begging Odysseus for his own life, possibly implying that Odysseus was a ruler of his own right more than 20 years prior, possibly before Antinous's birth or during Antinous's childhood or infantry. On the other hand some people seem to separate his father from Odysseus by naming Laertes "King of Cephallenians" and Odysseus "King of Ithaca" aka that technically Laertes is the king of the entirety of the kingdom (Ithaca, Cephallonia, Acarnania etc) and Odysseus's juristiction is Ithaca. Personally I do not fully support that last one given how Odysseus is the only one who seems to be in charge even if Laertes is still alive. It seems that the tradition in Ithaca was a bit more family-like in terms of ruling and the king retired from his duty because of age, letting the younger and more capable son to rule (potentially Laertes is an exception and gave the authority to Odysseus because he thought he was more capable ruler than himself. Odysseus possibly proved his worth during the internal conflicts with the Taphian pirates or in conflict in Messinia [when he received his bow in his youth as a gift])

It also seems to be backed up by how by n large they got married within the kingdom (Eurylochus is from the same kingdom, from the small island of Same and marries Odysseus's sister Ctimene, the suitors of Penelope all come from within the kingdom from different principates and regions). Laertes and Odysseus seem to be exceptions to the rule since Laertes marries Anticlea, daughter to the great thief Autolycus who lived in Parnassus and Odysseus who married Penelope from Sparta) So it seems that the kingdom is more like a "family business" than actually some kingdom with expansive or military construction (unlike Mycenae or Sparta) so it doesn't seem impossible that there is either a tradition for the old ruler to quit and pass the throne to the next generation rather than wait for his death to pass authority or that if one did it wouldn't seem impossible. It also seems that other kingdoms are not necessarily the same as modern kingdoms either. Icarius is still alive when the events of the Odyssey take place. We don't know if Tyndareus also is alive or not, from what I remember, in Homer's writing so it is not clear what kind of rules exist to that realm. Could it be also that the ruler is not only of age (able to grow a beard aka around the final 20s or early 30s) but also marriage that gets them ready to rule? Like Menelaus is a ruler of Sparta by marriage, Odysseus rules as a sovereign ruler because of his marriage? It could be although again the suitors of Helen were often called "kings" in literature, it doesn't seem to be the case given how most of her suitors are either young (Ajax, Menelaus, Antilochus was also mentioned or even Diomedes in some sources even if the two of them would be literal children at that time) or sons of existent rulers let's say Odysseus. So it is possible that marriage AND coming of age play their part in succession. It gets a bit confusing as well since Odysseus leaves order to Penelope that she has to wait till her son is of age (when his beard grows) to pass him the throne, if he hasn't returned till then. Does Odysseus imply that his son would rule if he was of age, regardless of his death or is he implying that they first have to confirm he is dead before Telemachus takes over? It is indeed an enigma but then again the case of Odysseus is complicated; he goes to a war that he doesn't know if he is gonna return from and according to some readings and traditions, he was repared to be off for a long time as well from an omen he heard so his case with Telemachus seems to be an exception rather than the rule given the extreme conditions they deal with.

Either way yeah it doesn't seem that Odysseus is not a ruler in his own right in any shape or form in the Iliad or the Odyssey despite the fact that Laertes was still alive throughout the entire process. Either because it was a consistent tradition or because Laertes made an exception, it seems that Laertes was not an active ruler by the time Odysseus left for Troy and as I said it seems that Penelope implies Odysseus was already a ruler capable of giving pardon to someone (Antinous's father) or command armies (Taphian pirate incident, Messina, Troy) so yeah it doesn't seem that Odysseus is considred "a Prince" like for instance his brother-in-law Eurylochus or the Suitors and their families but he seems to be a king in his own right; he is the one who has the duty to send away the suitors; he is the one to command the army and he is the one to call the counter-attack in the Odyssey against the retalliation of the families after the murder of the suitors and not Laertes.

So to close this already long answer yes among the many changes Miller imposes in her book to fit her narrative, it seems that she takes advantage of modern day perspectives of rule and succession (aka the sovereign ruler's death before the other takes over) plus the fact that there is no distinct word between king and prince in the ancient texts to call Odysseus "a Prince" possibly to decrease his status (similar to how ancient writers mentioned Odysseus not being legitimate son of Laertes but a bastard son by Sisyphus) so yeah it does seem like it as you said given how Miller doesn't seem to be fond of Odysseus as a character. But that would be my hypothesis. Either that or Miller simply doesn't want to consider a different rule of succession than the modern one she and her readers are familiar with aka a king becomes king only after his father's death. Which is ironic though given how many people mention Odysseus "a king" even if they know or possibly because they forget Laertes is still alive.

Hope this helps

[theoihalioistuff]

"He refers to the sea monster as Triton's dog. [...] When the gods wanted to bind Zeus, he (knowing this from Thetis) honored the other gods, but sent Poseidon and Apollo to serve Laomedon. Laomedon honored Apollo with sacrifices, supposedly as a reward for his service, but he did not honor Poseidon, who had served him and fortified Ilium.

When Poseidon did not receive his due after the appointed time of service, he, being angry with Laomedon, sent a most terrible sea monster which flooded the land by spitting out the sea. Compelled by an oracle, Laomedon dressed his daughter Hesione in royal attire and exposed her to the monster. Herakles, passing by and having been promised immortal horses from Laomedon (which were given to him as a ransom by Zeus for having abducted his brother Ganymede), built a high wall and stood armed by the mouth of the monster. When the monster opened its mouth, he jumped into it all at once. After cutting it up from the inside for three days, he came out, having lost all his hair." ~ Tzetzes ad Lycophron. 34

Interesting to find a version of Apollo and Poseidon's servitude that accounts for Apollo's support of Troy and Poseidon's (usual) opposition. Also the detail of the sea monster being Triton's dog is adorable (and sad) and Herakles coming out hairless is hilarious.

[chocolatetaleprince]

Here's a terrible fic idea, a bit inspired by anotheroceanid's fic When the Horizon Blooms (an awesome fic btw). Post Trials of Apollo and Chalice of the Gods, Apollo and fem Percy become friends and they're trying to figure out how to get the gods to better/specifically overthrow Zeus. They realize that they can't replace Zeus with a titan or something because they've already fought two wars over that, and they don't think they could replace him with Apollo because he wouldn't get enough support (literally was just made mortal). They're running out of options.

Then Apollo (or maybe Rachel being the oracle) gets a prophecy sort of like Danae's or Thetis'. The gist of it is that if Apollo and fem Percy have a child, that child will grow up to overthrow the gods. After some suitable angst over having a demigod child at the center of a huge prophecy, they decide to make it happen. They have a son with black hair and golden eyes, like Kronos. Fem Percy decides to name him Perseus due to 1. OG Perseus had a happy ending 2. the meaning of the name 3. OG Perseus was part of a prophecy about how he would kill his grandfather.

I'm not sure what would happen next but other ideas could be: Apollo/fem Percy fall in love during the course of co-conspiring and raising their child. Possibly a dark tone, after all this kid would essentially be Mordred.

Edit: another idea-fem percy is 19 when she decides to have the prophecy baby to parallel Luke kicking off the Titan war when he was 19

[babyrdie]

Okay, I've recently been reading some academic interpretations of the parallels/connections between Achilles and Apollo, Achilles and Patroclus, and Achilles and Neoptolemus (I think, as is notable because of the inclusion of Achilles and Neoptolemus, I'm talking about sources in general and not just the Homeric texts). The interesting part is that some of these interpretations seemed to connect with each other, even if unintentionally.

The thing about Achilles' birth is that either a son of Thetis was destined to possibly be a cosmic threat (see Aeschylus' Bound Prometheus for an example, but there are other sources) or else Achilles' existence is a product of an offended Zeus at being rejected (e.g. Apollonius Rhodius' Argonautica). Thetis is forced to marry Peleus and the wedding takes place on Mount Pelion, in the home of the centaur Chiron and in the presence of the gods. This is a constant element of mythology, with a long list of sources attesting to such a scenario. Apollo is particularly heavily emphasized as one of the members present. We see this in the discussion between Apollo and Hera in both The Iliad and Posthomerica, for example. Apollo was there. He is described doing the following activities, depending on the source: 1) leading the choir/playing/singing 2) pouring libations 3) prophesying. As far as prophecies go, Apollo notably prophesies positive things about the child of this marriage for Thetis (see, for example, Plato's Rebuplic and Aeschylus fragment 189). From the beginning, Apollo was linked to Achilles. Not only like the other gods by being present at the marriage that would produce him, but by bringing him into by telling a prophecy to Thetis. And as we know, Achilles is a figure very much guided by the prophetic context surrounding his life, so Apollo, as a prophetic god, being linked to him seems to make some sense.

Well, now let's talk about Patroclus-Achilles. I've already talked about this in more detail in another post (although still briefly), so I'll keep it short in this one. To put it very simply, there is an interpretation of Patroclus = Achilles. What does that mean? It means that Patroclus is supposed to assume a kind of "dual identity" with Achilles, in which they're as one. This is, of course, mainly supported by Book 16 of The Iliad, although it isn't the only text used for this argument. Anyway, Book 16 Patroclus personifies Achilles. He not only wears his armor, he also assumes a personality quite similar to that of Achilles and even receives the same epithets. For a moment, he IS Achilles. And I'm not saying "he's Achilles because they thought he was Achilles", I'm saying that, symbolically, the narrative treats him as if he were Achilles. But not entirely, because Patroclus isn't LITERALLY Achilles, which is why he can't lift Achilles' spear (no one can, only the owner) and why he dies to Hector, while the real one kills Hector. But while the circumstances of Patroclus' death set him apart from the one he impersonates, they also bring him closer to him. A major figure in Patroclus' death is Apollo, who at one point says:

“Give way Patroclus, seed of Zeus; it is not fated that the city of the noble Trojans be sacked under your spear, nor under that of Achilles, he who is greater by far than you.”

The Iliad, 16.707-709. Translation by Caroline Alexander.

There is an apparent connection between Patroclus and Achilles being made by Apollo here. Apollo prophesies his death, claiming that he isn't destined to sack Troy and that neither is Achilles. In this interpretation, Apollo, as the god of prophecy, is indirectly predicting Achilles' death through Patroclus' death. The connections between Patroclus' death and Achilles' death are reinforced at other times, for example when the horses, moved by Hera, while mourning Patroclus also prophesy Achilles' death in Book 19. The ghost Patroclus' request that Achilles mix his ashes when Achilles dies in Book 23 also foretells this. Symbolically, by killing Patroclus, Apollo kills Achilles. And when Hector prophesies that Achilles will be killed by Paris and Apollo, this is how Achilles responds:

“Lie dead. I will take death at that time when Zeus and the other deathless gods wish to accomplish it.”

The Iliad, 21.356-366. Translation by Caroline Alexander.

While Iliadic Achilles was always portrayed as being neutral about the idea of ​​dying because he already knew about the prophecy, in this moment we have an Achilles who undeniably doesn't care about death. Patroclus' death made him not care. Because by killing Patroclus, a part of Achilles was killed as well. Achilles was killed, symbolically.

Later, Apollo actually kills Achilles, which is a common feature in the traditions. The way this is done varies. Sometimes it is just Apollo (e.g. Hyginus, Sophocles, Quintus), sometimes it is Paris (most sources, already indicated in The Iliad because of a line from Hector), but the point is: Apollo kills Achilles. Ironically, the prophetic god is the one who fulfills the prophecy that Achilles is fated to die young in exchange for undying glory. Also ironically, Achilles' death makes him more similar to Apollo. They were both already healers, both lyrists, both had similar physical appearances (even in visual representations) and Achilles was already close to the divine sphere, which is particularly reinforced by the fact that in The Iliad a word for anger that is only applied to gods is also applied to Achilles and only Achilles. But now that Apollo has killed him and Achilles died young, he will be eternally young, just as Apollo is, being a deity associated with young men (just as Artemis is associated with young women). Not only that, but he will be immortal in the sense that his achievements will be remembered forever, just as he wanted. Achilles is eternally young and immortal, reflecting the image of Apollo even though he isn't literally immortal.

But Apollo wasn't done killing Achilles, in a way. After Achilles comes Neoptolemus. It's pretty clear that Neoptolemus is supposed to be a sort of "new Achilles." It's even present in the character's name: Pausanias says that Phoenix renamed Phyrrus Neoptolemus (new + war) in honor of Achilles, in reference to both being young when they set out to war. In Posthomerica, the moment when Odysseus and Diomedes arrives on Skyros reminds Deidamia of when they went for Achilles, and she fears for Neoptolemus' life as she feared for Achilles', superimposing the two of them. When Neoptolemus leaves, it's because he has been promised glory, a glory he craves as he pursues the ghost of his dead father. In Sophocles' Philoctetes, Neoptolemus is an opposition to Odysseus' methods in the sense that Odysseus prefers cunning while Neoptolemus prefers honesty (albeit with greater use of force), which in some ways recalls the interaction between Odysseus and Achilles in Book 9 of The Iliad (although there is some debate about that Book, but let's ignore that and focus on what matters). In Euripides' Andromache, the cause of Neoptolemus' death is indirectly his dissatisfaction with Achilles' death. But the point is: Achilles dies without accomplishing what was supposed to be accomplished (sacking Troy), his son comes and finishes the "job" (he sacks Troy). Achilles killed Hector, Neoptolemus often kills Astyanax (sometimes it's Odysseus). Achilles killed Andromache's family, Neoptolemus enslaves her. Even if negatively, Neoptolemus is supposed to be guided by what he thinks Achilles was and is willing to finish what was started. Just as Achilles killed Troilus in the temple of Apollo, Neoptolemus killed Priam in the temple of Zeus and, at times, such visual representations appear in the same piece. There is even the possibility that Troilus represents Troy and, therefore, by killing Troilus Achilles was "killing Troy" and Neoptolemus, by repeating an action so similar to his father's but with Priam and in the temple of Zeus, was confirming that yes, Troy is dead. Both are precocious warriors who become violent to the point of committing offenses against the divine, seduced by the idea of ​​glory that will immortalize them.

Apollo was right when he prophesied that Achilles wouldn't sack Troy, but in some ways an extension of Achilles (Neoptolemus) did. Because that's it: Achilles may not have been the one who broke down the gates, he was still the one who for years did a considerable amount of the work to keep the Achaeans advancing. He is still responsible for the fall of Troy, even if he died before. And this can be symbolized by Neoptolemus himself, a reminder that Achilles as a person may be gone, but his legacy not. Later, Apollo also has a relationship with the death of Neoptolemus. Thus, even with Achilles already dead, Apollo kills him for a third time by killing, directly or indirectly, Neoptolemus.

And the interesting part is that all of these deaths are deeply connected with Apollo's prophetic domain. Apollo prophesied about Achilles to Thetis in more than one source, there was also another prophecy about Achilles' death and one about Patroclus' death (as told by Achilles in The Iliad), Apollo prophesied the fate of Patroclus and Achilles to Patroclus himself, the horses prophesied Achilles' fate to him, Neoptolemus became the "new Achilles" because a prophecy from Helenus (whose prophetic gift comes from Apollo) said he was needed, Neoptolemus used prophecy to escape divine punishment (he is said to have used Helenus' prophecies to escape the punishment by sea that the Achaeans were receiving. See Pausanias for an example), but still receives it when he is killed in the temple of Apollo.

If we consider the disguise version (the earliest attested source for this version is a lost painting by Polygnotus), then Neoptolemus is conceived at a time when there is an attempt to avert a prophecy: Thetis hid Achilles at the court of Lycomedes to prevent the prophecy of his death from being fulfilled, in the process Deidamia became pregnant with Neoptolemus. Neoptolemus, ironically, has a prophecy about him that is connected with the prophecy of Achilles, I believe. After all, his role as the "new Achilles" implies that the "old Achilles" is no longer there, i.e. dead… i.e. the prophecy has been fulfilled. The prophecy surrounding Neoptolemus depends on the prophecy surrounding Achilles, and the birth of Neoptolemus, in the disguise myth version, ironically happens in an attempt to avert it. In Euripides' Andromache, by offending Apollo because of Achilles' death, Neoptolemus gets his own death. The fates of Achilles and Neoptolemus are connected, even if they never actually interacted while alive (I say "while alive" because Achilles' ghost interacts with Neoptolemus in some versions, such as The Little Iliad).

Where Patroclus was supposed to be a more "controlled" part of Achilles, Neoptolemus is the more "wild" part of Achilles. And Achilles is somewhere in between. Apollo, however, eliminates all of these symbolic aspects of Achilles. He repeatedly kills Achilles, who somewhat ironically bears enough similarities to Apollo that some academic have claimed that Achilles is supposed to be inspired by Apollo to some degree. And that one of the main destroyers of Troy has a connection to the main protector of Troy is really intriguing.

Well, I rambled a lot. Just wanted to share some ideas I've read around for a while. These are interpretations, so anyone can disagree with these suggestions, but I still think it's interesting. I hope I have synthesized these interpretations/theories in an understandable way.

[genericpuff]

This has been buggibg me for a while. What is the reason why Rachel dehumanizing nymphs?

Cause from what I'm seeing the nymphs getting the most screen time is Daphne, Minthe, Thetis, Psyche and a little bit of Leuce and Echo.

4 out of the 6 nymphs we see are very open in their sex appeal and flirty. Yet for some reason they get discriminated when Hera, Persophone, and Aphrodite do the same thing but get a pass because the are white coded rich people.

For my knowledge (but I could be wrong if so please correct me) nymphs are known to be seductive and sexy but they were well respected just like any other God. They were given given sacrifices to please them.

Is this just another case of Rachel being the so-called "folkorists" who has done the first Google link she see or could there just be how she interprets then but like the rest of her story misses the mark?

So there are a couple different and equally interesting theories on this.

Rachel has established it as canon that the nymphs are lower class. And there are a lot of stereotypes and prejudices against lower class women going into sex work, which we see in LO through characters like Minthe who work as car girls (notice how in the present story Thetis and Minthe are both personal assistants which is also a role that's commonly stereotyped as "the boss' sidepiece" as it's a role often occupied by women in service to men). Even Leuce isn't safe from this:

Normally I'd just say "good for her" but it's clear with how much Leuce has been turned into the delusional girl who "manifests" her fantasies that Rachel is once again conflating sexuality with more negatively-associated character traits for any woman who isn't Persephone (because when it's Persephone it's sexual liberation always, she's not a "sugar baby", she's a "workaholic" who "earned her position and wealth", but when it's Leuce or Minthe or Thetis they're "homewreckers") And yeah, this is a common disconnect that happens between lower class and upper class people, where lower class people (especially women) are often judged and outcast for doing certain things or behaving a certain way which rich upper class people take and adopt and turn into something "trendy" and "empowering".

But there's... another theory that may explain why so many nymphs in the story are being pigeonholed into the "homewrecking sugar babies" stereotype. And you're gonna hate me for this, because I'm sure the gut reaction to reading this from many is gonna be "goddamit not Lolita again!" buuuttt yeah we're gonna talk about Lolita again.

CONTENT WARNING: We're talking about Lolita again, which means discussion surrounding the sexualization of minors is ahead.

There's a certain term the main character of the book Humbert Humbert uses to describe girls who are specifically, and I quote:

"Between the age limits of nine and fourteen there occur maidens who, to certain bewitched travellers, twice or many times older than they, reveal their true nature which is not human, but nymphic (that is, demoniac); and these chosen creatures I propose to designate as 'nymphets'." - Lolita, Chapter 5, Page 18, paragraph 5

It's also very clear from the way Nabokov specifies the definition of nymphet from Humbert Humbert's perspective that the use of the word 'nymphet' is intentionally referencing the root word of Greek origin:

"...I would have the reader see 'nine' and 'fourteen' as the boundaries - the mirrory beaches and rosy rocks - of an enchanted island haunted by those nymphets of mine and surrounded by a vast, misty sea. Between those age limits, are all girl-children nymphets? Of course not. Otherwise we who are in the know, we lone voyagers, we nympholepts, would have long gone insane."

Though Humbert Humbert is obviously not being literal here, the visual metaphor is strongly relying on the etymology of the word 'nymph', but twisting the depiction of nymphs in such a way to support his own fantasies.

And while I'm definitely not trying to accuse Rachel of having the same mindset of Humbert Humbert (seriously, I want to make it clear that I don't think Rachel is a pedophile, just horribly misled at best), it's interesting to me how this specific definition of a nymphet matches with that of Rachel's old descriptions of her own art:

"You have to be an artist and a madman, a creature of infinite melancholy, with a bubble of hot poison in your loins and a super-voluptuous flame permanently aglow in your subtle spine (oh, how you have to cringe and hide!), in order to discern at once, by ineffable signs - the slightly feline outline of a cheekbone, the slenderness of a downy limb, and other indices which despair and shame and tears of tenderness forbid me to tabulate - the little deadly demon among the wholesome children; she stands unrecognized by them and unconscious herself of her fantastic power."

What's interesting is that I did dig up an old profile of Rachel's that actually acknowledged that what she's doing with her art shouldn't be conflated with, well... child porn.

"It's not THAT kind of lolita" and yet the writing feels like it's been smeared all over the wall with shit. There are so many scenes and artistic choices throughout LO that scream "it is that kind of lolita".

Though it is still a theory, and I don't resort to using Rachel's old art of "proof" of LO's shortcomings, I don't think it should necessarily be ignored that the nymphs in LO seem to be characterized very similarly to Humbert Humbert's description of 'nymphets' - devious and promiscuous, and thus easier to blame when predatory men pursue them, rather than holding those predatory men accountable. And we see this in Persephone too, but unlike the nymphs, Persephone is rich, upper class, and of a "superior pedigree". So she becomes the desirable form of a 'nymphet' that's praised and celebrated by the narrative and characters like Hades, rather than the literal nymphs who are shamed and outcast for simply having sexual independence.

Whatever theory you roll with is on you, you can dismiss all this as just overthinking nonsense, but I do think it makes for interesting food for thought because at this point, LO is undeniably - intentionally or subconsciously - influenced by Rachel's relationship with Lolita, and whether or not that influence is aware at all of Lolita being originally written to be a precautionary tale, that remains to be seen.

[dootznbootz]

What do you think of Neoptolemus? :0

There's so much to think about this lil guy. While he's like, ofc, not my "main blorbo" (that belongs to Penelope <3 ) he's still such a fascinating fella.

Like, okay, like from the beginning, I personally like the idea that Deidamia and Achilles were dating and/or at least friends. And I like the idea of Thetis being a very spoiling grandma. :3 So many presents. Also he prefers salt water like his dad though he's not as upset about freshwater touching his skin as Achilles is.

For his age, it's always been like... WILD. because oh my gosh the timeline. Where is it? Why is it? HOW is it? I don't really plan to write and/or think about his age too much because that would throw so much into funk... :')

Either way, idk, I think he's complex like his dad. He's almost a mix of "powerful warrior" but still so young. I weirdly think it'd be neat that if he's a bit like Diomedes in a way, in how he had to start fighting so young, his dad is well known (both for very different reasons) but unlike Diomedes, who had Sthenelus, Thersander, Promachus, etc. during the Epigoni. Neo has no one really who is close in age to him to support him in the same way during the Trojan War. If you know what I mean? He also doesn't have Athena constantly often beside him. (idk maybe a weird old brother thing for Diomedes and Neo)

I also don't...really think I want to necessarily go with the "hyperviolent" boy? possibly angry and scared but not like "bloodlust" and just murderous. Especially when idk, Neoptolemus was raised more...MORTAL than his father was xD As Achilles also got Centaur treatment while still being a demigod xD

While I do plan for the "Neo is the one who kills Astayanax" instead of Odysseus (I think it makes...the most narrative sense with how Achilles killed Hector, and he kills Astayanax. It's a "Father kills this other father, his son kills the same father's son" sorta of thing.) but the drop from the wall. Not the fucked up one where he kills Priam with him 😭

I...don't ship Neo with Hermione though. :/ idk I think she'd hate him tbh lol. Also the whole

Neo: "Hey, uh, Menelaus promised me that I got to marry Hermione." Tyndarius: "Uh...Do you have proof?" Neo: "Are you going to disrespect Menelaus?!"

Thing that happens?? idk I know it's canon at least but I don't like it for long you know?

Idk :3 He's a funky lil guy for sure. <3

[ungodlysai]

Thetis: Why do people think I have distaste for you, Patroclus?

Patroclus: Because it was easiest to paint you that way. You’re a Nymph who was bound to mate with a mortal man. It was easy for them to spin that into hatred for me, hatred for humans.

Thetis: They have me mistaken. I love most humans. Some of you do some… questionable things, but then again, so do the gods.

Achilles: Everyone’s kind of messed up in their own way, aren’t we?

Patroclus: it’s what makes us unique. Even so, I thank you Thetis, for being supportive of your son and I.

Thetis: You mellow him out. You help him. How could I not support you?

*we love supportive mom Thetis here.*

[littlesparklight]

Some general thoughts on the gods on Troy's side, and why they might be:

Aphrodite: Presumably out of affection for her son, Anchises, and Paris. Very potentially, wanting to assure the gift she's given Paris lasts as long as possible? But if this is a factor, hardly something she is beholden to in any way; it'd probably be more about her own pride in that case. But, given that she also helps protect Hektor's corpse, when he, at least, is no longer able to pay her back for such aid, her affection/aid to the Trojans aren't just for or because of those three.

Apollo: Thetis' warning/prophecy to her son that killing Tennes/a son of Apollo would mean Apollo would kill him (Plutarch, Quaest. Graec. 28, Bibliotethe, Epitome 3.26), then we have Achilles killing Troilus in his sancuary, which would be reason enough on its own but Troilus can also be Apollo's son. There's Apollo so ardently protecting Hektor throughout the war, even/maybe especially after his death (Hektor is also in several sources Apollo's son). Also his relationship with Hecuba and how in Stesichorus he rescues her. (Could also put Kassandra and Helenos here.)

Part of his defense of Troy might be about "fate" and when it's the "proper time" for Troy to fall, but Apollo's ties to Troy/individuals attached to Troy are more deep-set than that. He is the one to punish Neoptolemos' sacrilege of killing Priam at Zeus' altar. Apollo is also rarely present during vase art scenes around the Judgment, potentially connecting to; Apollo specifically being the one to aid Paris (or in some variants, using Paris' shape) to kill Achilles. Real-world wise, the possibility of connecting Apaliuna(s)/Appaluwa as Wilusa/Troy's patron god to Apollo.

Ares: Unstable ally. Hard to say how consistently he is on either side; Athena says he "only yesterday" on the first day of fighting in the Iliad was loudly pledging to Hera and Athena that he'd help the Achaeans.

Perhaps he's been aiding the Trojans more or less secretly/openly throughout the war, as much because he supports whatever side he wishes on a whim as that Aphrodite (and Apollo?) has asked him to. Either way, certainly not as consistent nor out of any particular affection or feeling of protectiveness for the Trojans.

Artemis: "For, in her pity, holy Artemis is angry at the winged hounds of her father, for they sacrifice a wretched timorous thing, together with her young, before she has brought them forth. An abomination to her is the eagles' feast." (Agamemnon, Aeschylus, line 135) ; this is about the eagles and hare omen, which replaces (or in addition to, as this seems to have happened in Mycenae) the snake and sparrows one. Artemis is put forth as unhappy with Troy's (future) fall/the war.

And, it's of course very easy to see the demand for Iphigenia in reparation for Agamemnon's hubris in a similar way, that if he/the army, wants to go off and kill/enslave innocents elsewhere, he/they has to start at home. She may also be helping her brother, and there is the Skamandrios, son of Strophios, who she herself taught to hunt in the Iliad. She has independent connections to Troy, and could be one of the more focused on Trojan deities along with her brother and their mother.

Leto: We have nothing, aside from the fact that she is on the Trojan side with her children in Book 21. But real-world-wise, there's also that Leto was an important goddess on the coast, and in Lycia connected to a Lycian mother goddess. So one could probably make inference for the in-universe reason being as much her siding with her children as that Troy is honouring her (maybe particularly so), along with the rest of the countries on the coast.

Xanthos: intimately woven together with Troy's royal family, as he's married a couple daughters into the line and his (only?) son's daughter married Dardanos.

Zeus: He's technically/actually neutral, a driving force to keep the war going as it "needs to". He's therefore on Troy's side more through the sentiment(s) he expresses or is assigned to him rather than in action.

Particularly so if one turns to the "he planned the war" variants - but these are never about Troy, or Paris, but rather about something much larger than any fault any individual Trojan or Troy has a whole as made themselves guilty of. [Though individual mortals in the Iliad, and in later sources, both tragedies and lyric, will imply that it's Zeus as god of xenia that ensures his working towards Troy's destruction, rather than any plan that has little to do with Troy.]

For his connections to and being for Troy, have Proclus' summary of the Kypria for example, where the plan mentioned at the end is to "relieve the Trojans" specifically, and that phrasing turns Achilles' anger and Zeus acting to fulfil his demands not about Achilles' honour, but about aiding Troy. In Pindar's Paean 6 (fragmentary), Zeus is said to "not dare to change fate [the destruction of Troy]", easily to implicate that he otherwise might, because he would wish to. More important, perhaps, is his statement that Troy is his most favoured city, and how Hera offers up three of her favoured cities for Zeus' one, how he wishes to save Hektor, and the description in the Iliad (by Poseidon) that Dardanos was the/one of the sons [by mortal women, though Elektra couldn't have been that] that he loves the most.

[blue-drink]

LO! Persephone's Act of Wrath rewrite.

Notes: I haven't read LO; things might be different because I don't know about them or I just don't like them. This is just how Zeus gets to know about it. Changed Eros' Act of Wrath: Eros' AoW happens 5 years before LO events; his punishment is to give closure to the families affected and to increase the amount of couples formed to make up for the lives lost. After completing it, Persephone meets him and asks him where was he. He says that he was doing his punishment for his AoW, she asks what that is, he explains, and she realizes that she did one the year before.

His work was interrupted by his office-phone. He sighed before putting down his pen and pushing the button.

“What is it, Thetis?” «Someone says that they have an important matter to discuss with you. And no, they aren't in the list.» He groaned, “what do they even want to talk about?” «An Act.»

“Tell them I'm not giving them anything if they didn't bother to inscribe in the list first.” Zeus snapped.

He thought that was the end of it, and tried to concentrate back on his work; but, after a short silence, Thetis voice came from the device again.

«They want to report an Act, sir.» Shit, I need a cigarette.

He supported his head with his right hand and looked down at his over-crowed desk. He pushed the button again, “tell them to be in my office in ten minutes.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Ah, Pinky.” Zeus greeted her as she made her way to the guest chair. “To be honest, you are the last person I expected to see today.”

With a hand movement, he made a tea-set appear on the now clean desk, “tea?”

“Thank you,” she answered with a small nod as she took the teacup in front of her.

“My pleasure,” he said, taking his own, “now, if we could get down to business I would greatly appreciate it. As you can guess, I am a rather busy god.”

He took a sip before continuing. “Do you know who did it, or do you just have information of the Act itself?”

“I did it,” she answered. That made him pause, “pardon me?”

“I did an Act of Wrath, last year.” She talked again before he could, “just to be clear, I didn't know Acts were a thing until literally last week.”

He brought a hand to his forehead, feeling the incoming migraine. “Could you elaborate? First of, on how you didn't know about Acts””

“I guess I'm just not well versed in god laws, only in mortal rules; I didn't interact with divine beings, other than my mother, the nymphs and sometimes Hermes, so I never thought of there being special rules for gods.”

“That's…“ That's definitely a problem. Just, a moment, please.” He pushed the phone button, “Thetis, can you ask Athena to find some basic god-law book and leave it on my desk by…” He checked his calendar, “next Tuesday?”

«On it.» She answered after a moment. Thank you.”

“You didn't have to do that,” she complained once his attention was back on her, “I could have gotten some from the library.”

“Pardon the sarcasm, but, yeah, sure;” he replied. “You won't find a basic law book there. Athena basically makes a hobby out of writing easy to comprehend books about anything, she has more than a few law ones too. Just thank her for them, maybe ask some questions about whatever, and you'll be good.”

“You asked for one.” She narrowed her eyes at him, and he responded in kind. After a solid minute, she gave up and went back to her tea.

“Normally, I would ask about the Act’s specifics. But, because this is a self-report —which I wish was a common concurrence— and you have basically zero law knowledge, as a god of justice and order I feel obligated to save the interrogation until you have been counseled by a lawyer.”

“But, wouldn’t that delay my punishment?” She questioned.

“In this judgment, I am both the prosecutor and the judge. My job is to find proof of the Act and it’s consequences for the victims —which is half done with your confession—, and to give you a fit punishment according to the law at the time of the crime.” He explained. “On the other hand, the jury’s job is to determine whether you are guilty, innocent or justified to do the crime the prosecutor accuses you of.”

“Justified?”

“For example, centuries ago, if someone hit you, and you responded with the same action, both would be charged with assault. Even though, in this, you were defending yourself. If the defense lawyer did a good job, they would convince the jury you were justified to hit back, rather than try to deny it happened.”

“Fascinating…”

“Just in case you are wondering, self-defense has been given a place in the law. As long as the force is proportional, you cannot be charged with assault for defending yourself.” He smiled as he took another sip of tea.

“Going back to the point,” he continued, “once we’re in court, everything you have told me about this case can and will be used against you. That’s my job, upholding the law; and the law will always be against those who break it. It doesn’t matter what your feelings are about your Act, your priority will be to convince everyone you deserve the lightest sentence possible. And my priority, to convince everyone you deserve the heaviest sentence possible.”

A few documents and a contact-card appeared in front of her. “That’s the report information, and that is the contact to a law firm. You can look for another if you prefer, but I would recommend meeting with a lawyer as soon as possible.”

A paper appeared in his hand. He quickly filled some information in. “Come by Tuesday to take the law books, you can also give the report if you have it by then. The court day can be set later.” He handed her the paper.

She thanked him and got up to leave. He called back once she got to the door, “oh, one last thing. Do not think of getting cold feet now, you cannot escape justice.”

[scarlet-sam-chaos]

Thetis: Help me, the Greeks are being mean to my son, aid the trojans as revenge, will you? Zeus: ... Zeus: ... Hera supports the Greeks Zeus: ... i do not wish to quarrel with my wife :( Thetis: ... Thetis: remember that time Hera, Poseidon and Athena attempted to overthrow you and I helped you out? Zeus: ...alright, I'll think about it Thetis: :) Zeus: now go before Hera sees you here pls

[katerinaaqu]

As per my other Statius mention on Achilles

I honestly feel very intrigued by the way Statius imagined his hero. I daresay he almost pictures him animalistic. For example when he was downright against himself being dressed as a woman and stay inside with the other daughters of Lycomedes Thetis basically shows him some of the women as they dance gracefully out the fields.

The sight instantly awakes the first waves of arousal inside Achilles who, as per Statius, never experienced such a thing in his life. His cheeks immediately flush and his body awakens as if in an instict. As if he is going through heat. Statius even mentions how Achilles was ready to pounce upon the women in general and Deidamia in particular.

Somehow this animalistic depiction of his desire and awakening is contradicting the hero's later grace and composure for a little while. It almost seems to imply that the way Achilles lived isolated in the wilderness under the care of Chiron he adopted these animalistic characteristics. He was pure, yes, without any essence or ideas for intrigue or lies or any thoughts like that and yet Statius seems to almost tells that this deprives from his human side. Achilles never experienced arousal he was too young till that point but once he did it was a feeling unknown to him and he almost seemed ready to act on instict and he had to be stopped by his mother who also later on proceeds on his transformation with feminine clothes and even places her own necklace around his throat.

The same animalistic frustration is what leads him to lose control with Deidamia at the celebration of Dionysus. Somehow this animalistic side manifesting with the God's infamous divine ecstasy and climate of the celebration.

Statius seems to be telling us that Achilles being pure to that extent also means to be instinctual like all animals of nature. It almost seems to be contemplating on the idealism of purity might as well not be so idealistic after all. And this is even potentially supported by the contrast with Odysseus who blows the cover of Achilles with his trick. Achilles made the choice to follow his gut and go to war but Odysseus used his brain to flush him out and somehow that contrast doesn't seem random with this narrative.

Food for thought

[ilions-end]

The people know you're a Thetis supporter but are you a Peleus hater? If so, why?

ahaha and not usually too subtle about it. my fervent thetis support is directly linked to being a peleus hater, yeah. like i remember when i first read thetis' lament in book 18 of the iliad and could feel my heart hardening against him in realtime.

how funny is it that peleus is the most divorced man in the iliad and he ISN'T EVEN IN IT