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necrotic-nephilim · 3 months ago

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i think stephcass could have been potentially interesting if fandom let steph be herself and not ultimate uwu girl boss erasing all her negative traits. where is her jealousy? unhealthy obsession with her crush and complete lack of understanding of the concept of boundaries ESPECIALLY if that person is already dating someone? where is her almost manic urge to push away other potential love interests (and at this point i realized she would NOT have been so chill with ives if tim had come out much earlier yikes)

BIG AGREE OH MY GOD YOU PUT IT INTO WORDS.

because i love TimSteph for the reasons you listed!! there's something very unhealthy and teen girl-ish in the way Steph approaches relationships. she's angrily jealous and she thinks about Tim in a possessive way. like she is just so consumed by him and it's meant to be male comic writers writing how they think teen girls write about boys in their diaries- but it comes off as incredibly toxic. it's one of her deepest character flaws and what endears me so much to 90s Steph. she throws herself so deeply into romance when she has it, like she's afraid if she lets go of it for even a second it's going to leave her. and god forbid you be the person she falls for bc you will never maintain a healthy relationship with someone she views as competition, she *will* sabotage it. and to me these are all pros of her character. i *like* seeing how vigilantes struggle to maintain normal relationships- *especially* teenage vigilantes. Steph struggles to balance her "regular" life with being Spoiler and what things deserve a Stephanie Brown reaction and what things deserve a Spoiler reaction. and when she's dating, it's almost *always* going to be a Spoiler reaction and she shades her relationships through that lense. it's why civilian partners for Steph never really interest me. (besides the fact they always feel forced and clunky, like Steph's recent think with Maps' older brother?) it doesn't explore the way Steph loves to her fullest extent and how far she goes when she's into someone. there's no sweet puppy love for Steph, when she's all in, she's *all* in. she will do what she thinks is best for Tim oftentimes by her own will without his knowledge or approval, and sometimes massively fucks things up for him. bc she's just so wrapped up in what she believes is best, consequences are secondary.

and sure, she maintains healthy friendships. bc most fodder with StephCass is very healthy and soft. bc it's a *friendship*. and it changes radically when Steph is involved romantically. it's why there's such a difference in how Steph regards Tim when they're just friends as to when they were dating. she loves him and he's always going to be important, but that obsessive passion isn't what drives them anymore. so it's something you have to consider with *any* Steph ship in which it's a character she's had a friendship with- that how she interacts with them as a friend doesn't necessarily inform how she'd regard them as a lover. and that's the issue with StephCass. even the StephCass content that *is* comics informed (tho, a lot of it isn't and while i don't think fanon needs to be based on the comics to be good, i do think Steph and Cass are difficult characters to tackle if you aren't at least semi-familiar with their canon content bc of how warped they are in the fandom-) comes off with such a rose-colored lense that sours it for me. hell, even on Cass' side, things she's *canonically* done have been weird and obsessive about Steph. but that's never explored.

(tbh dare i say it's something to do with the phenomena in fandom that yuri is morally pure and perfect and yaoi is always dirty and bad- there's this almost sanitizing of sapphic ships sometimes to make them perfect and cute together and while i'm not here to yuck someone else's yum, i do think it's *telling* that women in fandom never get to explore the complex depths of unhealthy and toxic love in the way men do bc if you make a woman evil, it's misogyny. if you sexualize a woman too much it's misogyny. if you write her doing morally fucked up things even with the understanding it is her canon character, it's misogyny and you're villainizing her. i can sit here and say Tim is canonically shitty at relationships and ppl will not. if i say the same about Steph, then i'm critiquing a woman and holding her to an unfair standard. it's exhausting. it feels like StephCass only ever exists to depict Steph and Cass as morally pure and in love angels kissing in the background while the men get to do complex and nuanced and fun things in the foreground. this thought has probably been far more explored by others with more developed nuance on it, but i just wanted to point it out bc it's a very real thing i keep seeing *especially* in the Batfam fandom-)

and equally i think Cass' reaction to this intensity and obsession from Steph could be interesting. Cass historically has had poor reactions to knowing everyone is attracted to her and thinking about her, so that level of intensity i think could cause some negative reactions out of Cass that would add some very layered conflict to the ship. some of Steph's most negative traits *do* clash with Cass' wants and needs. it makes the ship more fun! it puts Steph's flaws on display as well as Cass' flaws and her internal issues surrounding romance. StephCass could be so weird and fucked up. but it's been defanged by this fandom in a way that turns me off to it. i love both Steph and Cass and i love exploring sapphic Batfam ships, so it *should* work for me. but the irony of it being popular in anti spaces combined with no one being able to acknowledge the flaws either of these characters have for the sake of making them kiss just. bores me and it's sucked any interest i could have out of it. bc god forbid women just be a little fucked up. </3

#necrotic answerings #stephcass #dead dove do not eat #you're so on point anon #ESPECIALLY about ives oh my god.#you're right.#she'd also have a complex about kon and bart i think.#like it's not healthy or normal but that's just how steph was #and we can chalk some of it up to bad writing don't get me wrong #i agree there's genuine sexism seeped into how she was written up until her death #but that doesn't mean years of consistent and explored character work should all get tossed out so you can pacify her for your own comfort #like if soft stephcass is your thing i get it that's so real #but i rlly don't think it's how they'd genuinely play out if both were in character. steph is sort of terrible with relationships.#timsteph was SUCH a disaster and that was what made them *fun*#and now ppl ignore that and call them siblings as if it is not integral to both of them.#let sapphic ships be messy dear god #carmilla did NOT die for this.#let stephcass be killing eve coded. ty.#cannibalism as a metaphor for love is SO steph coded.

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hellofastudysession · 3 months ago

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am i rlly going to write a death note literary analysis when i could be doing other things

about the discourse going on in the tag abt "death note is acab and thats why the characters couldnt better the world with the note (/written in somewhat jokey matter)" vs "death note is trying to say we all have potential for evil, especially if you get a chance to insta-hurt ppl without repercussions, and it doesnt matter if youre a cop or not", i personally feel like it ignores the things that i like abt death note, which is "both of these things are true", and simultaneously "both of these things do not matter". the first part of this is dedicated to the first point, the latter to the last.

first point. i think its an important part of the message and themes (unintentional or not, and i lean on the former because... come on, can you really say the author intended you to not think of the cops as good people, at least compared to light and l) that light is a cops son, and that almost everyone who gets the death note is cop adjacent/thinks like a cop and is already corrupt/powerful when they get it (mello raised to think hed be just like l, yotsuba group is self explanatory; you cannot look me in the eyes and tell me teru "churchill" mikami, who was hand selected by light out of a bunch of rabid kira supporters, is a normal citizen). i appreciated the cop post bc its rlly important to not gloss over that aspect.

all of this would be an argument for "only someone like them would do something like this, and i am not like them, so im above them and immune to thinking about what id do with it", but... misa is the MOST important outlier in all of this bc her murders are solely selfish in nature and shes not doing any of this for "the greater good"!!! her nature of being an exception and still a very very bad person is really really important...

or it would be if death note gave a shit about her character at all!!! im not talking about her tragic side, im talking about exploring the ramifications of her killing people the way lights murders are (somewhat) explored. that would strengthen the message greatly! but shes dismissed and that weakens it overall. firstly, she's dismissed by the characters when l only sees her as a way to get to kira and basically shelves her the rest of the time. secondly, shes dismissed by the narrative when her character is gradually ground down to a stump and (not to sound perilously close to the bad takes ppl meme about) she never faces repercussions for her actions. every other character using the death note is treated relatively seriously, but misa just dies bc her love is dead. im not saying this isnt a... fitting punishment or that it isnt in character, but it doesnt fit snugly into the theme other people are talking about of "you reap what you sow" at all.

we do have something of an equivalent to misa's grayscale motives. surprise surprise, its light yagami. first is light's characterization in the musical (i will also note that misa never kills anyone in the musical). light's thinking is coplike, yes — he literally starts his first song by talking about "throw[ing] away the key" — but also, oddly enough, could be read as progressive and therefore sympathetic to tumblr ("let the corporations make the regulations / and hold no one accountable when everything gets wrong / let the rich and famous get away with murder / every time a high-priced mouthpiece starts to talk, his client gets to walk"). compare to the anime and manga, where his bigotry and pride and disgust come from a place of lukewarm dissatisfaction and boredom. the musical has much less time to play around with lights character, so it gives the audience something to immediately hook on. more on how that actually plays out later.

in the animanga, none of this is justified from the start. animanga light could say he was just killing people to make humanity way, way worse, and that wouldnt matter, because at the root of it, it was always his boredom that made him pick up the note. of course he actually believes in justice and believes hes doing the right thing (no, he believes he's doing the wrong thing, for the sake of the world... the right thing, because he is god...), but it was boredom at the start. all animanga light says about justice and righteousness and the law is a front in the end, bc he is exactly like l and misa — amoral. selfish. searching for entertainment. hedonistic. we know this. he kills naomi misora*. he kills lind l. turner. everything hes saying deserves to be dismissed from the beginning.

"but doesnt that mean you agree with the discourse post you wrote this post to argue against?" like i said, i agree with both of them! but i... still think its not right to reduce death note to the message of "the power to kill people is bad". because that is not exactly what the story is saying, even though that's literally its whole plot and therefore reaching that conclusion is self explanatory (lmao). let's look at the concept of mu. nothingness. "there's no heaven or hell". The Real Slay The Princess (Death Note Essay) Starts Here.

in light's final moments in the death note manga, while screaming about not wanting to die, he remembers that the first day they met, ryuk told light that "there's no heaven or hell. no matter what they do in life, all people go to the same place. all humans are equal in death". it is retroactively revealed that light knew this the whole time, operated under this knowledge for all the years we watched him — the knowledge that nothing he does is actually bad, that nothing any human does is actually bad, that shinigami are not "evil", that the universe does not care. that no one cares except humans. this oblivion absolutely terrifies him more than anything anyone could ever do to him. its what he thinks of before anything else as he flails there, screaming, dying. one could say everything he does after that day is him trying to escape that fact, or wrest control over it. but it doesnt work.

here are the lyrics of requiem, the musical's final song, sung over the bodies of l and musical light, a light who was at least somewhat good-intentioned at first: "sleep now, here among your choices / then fade away / hear how the world rejoices / shades of gray / gone who was right or wrong / who was weak or strong / nothing left to learn". this is the final message the death note musical and the manga chose to leave us with. there is no judgement. even after all that acknowledged hurt, after all the damage done, there is no judgement.

in the manga and anime alike, the world is just as fucked when light picks up the death note as when he dies. sure, we as readers can guess otherwise logically (and be optimistic, believing the world was never fucked regardless), but that's not what death note wants you to think. it ends with matsuda and another member of the task force noting how the world is worse again even though they killed kira (matsuda is clearly much worse for wear, but still determined), we see the shitty motorcycle band again, it ends with misa and a whole kira cult on a mountain even though kira died a long time ago...

its extremely important that light is never killed by any human or any aspect of the law. he is always killed by ryuk: a chaotic force completely detached from human sensibilities, one that does not care about good and evil. same with l; in the anime, manga, and musical, he is always killed by rems senseless, morally gray love (and you could argue in the kdrama that hes killed by love there too lol). justice is just a set dressing.

this is not just because death note is a tragedy, because good and evil can still matter in a tragedy. the theme of "nothingness" and "good and evil doesnt matter here" is also shown in a situation relatively unrelated to light winning or losing, or being good or bad. and its in fucking lawlight of all things. we all know ls not a good person. we know lights not a good person. this is tip of the iceberg death note knowledge. but the moment they start to interact, none of that starts to matter. textually, their relationship becomes more important than the people theyve killed and hurt. and the thing is? the thing is? THAT WORKS STORY-WISE. THAT'S ENTERTAINING. AND IT'S NEVER TEXTUALLY CALLED OUT IN A LASTING WAY. l and lights relationship, no matter how much i meme it, is genuinely important to the themes and "mu" because it makes it clear that despite all the pretensions, despite everything, this was never about good and evil. and it still works in the story. this is why death note is simultaneously a comedy — isn't the battle of good and evil supposed to matter more? well, fine, i'll keep watching this anyway. that suspension of disbelief comes crashing down the moment l dies, though, and a relationship built on nothingness (the "mu" sort, meaninglessness, not "character development" nothingness, theres plenty of character development) gives way to just nothingness (again, "mu", not light's post-l depression nothingness), forever.

(an aside: there is no one to root for in death note, and the only things to root for are either interesting character relationships, convoluted plots, or complete and total destruction: for everything to end so no more damage is done.)

not to say that death note does not encourage its readers to consider what damage they might do with the death note (obviously.), or that its characters never do. look at matsuda, a much easier heroic figure to latch on to than soichiro because of his unique place in the cast dynamic and because he's willing to consider both sides of the situation and kill light instantly for all he's done. its just that the story's own stance on the subject is... complicated by the existence of shinigami worldviews and by its own insistence that the world cannot change for the better.

also, this is not to say that this is executed well by the death note manga at all. it is a very strong tool, artistically, to establish and then violently remove any emotional connections between characters and make your story only about the exceedingly convoluted lengths characters go to to survive and catch each other so the reader can realize how ultimately pointless all of this is, but like... is that a good story choice if that's all you do? i would say not really. add in a good dollop of misogyny that destroys the second-to-last character who might actually be an interesting contrast to the rest of the cast's dull one-track focus on winning and justice, and youve got yourself a shitty story that... honestly still achieves what it went out to do, just not in a way id ever want to replicate.

anyway, back to the parts death note's actually trying to say. no matter what any human does in their life, no matter how they try to hurt or help the world, they all die in the end. hey, light, they all die in the end. once dead, they can never come back to life. and the seasons turn. and the world rejoices. and you say "goodbye"...

that's all.

no analysis of death notes overarching theme would be complete without nears final monologue, the definitive roast of light, the "you're just a murderer" speech: "what is right from wrong? what is good from evil? nobody can truly distinguish between them. even if there is a god." if we take this as talking about the actual god in the room (ryuk) as well as light, then near admits that humans will never be able to withstand these overwhelming forces and that, using justice and happiness and selfishness, they are just scrabbling to find meaning in things they ultimately have no control over.

but of course, near does not stop there. "[...] even then i'd stop and think for myself. i'd decide for myself whether his teachings are right and wrong." nears alright with not having control over everything, because near can still control nears own actions. these forces can and do exist, but they have no sway over nears own humanity — unlike light, who caved.

one of the creators of death note said they believe its message is "life is short, so everyone should do their best". the first time i learned this, i was like, thats... nice and optimistic, but an awful reading of the story! "life is short, so everyone should be desperate and striving like light yagami", who literally cut off other ppls lives for his own life? what character in death note are we supposed to strive towards when we "do our best"? they all do awful things with their lives! honestly, maybe they shouldnt have tried their best, if this is what their best is!

but with the view of "mu"... it makes a bit more sense. just a little. maybe.

there is no good and evil. there is only what humans think, and no matter what we do, we all die in the end. it is easy to be crushed and terrified by this in the same way light is, but what is more important than justice and righteousness and finding meaning is... doing your best. not being a person that hurts others too much. not letting yourself get swallowed up by an ideal. not going too far. and simultaneously, trusting yourself.

it leaves a few questions, though... was the currently dead l even a little bit right about his blatantly amoral approach, then? was there a point to this pain, and me slogging through this dumbass manga, and all the people that have lost their lives to a selfish teenage cop's son and the whims of everyone chasing after him? was there a point to any of this...?

the manga** never answers this. it stays clinically impartial until the very end. the musical is anything but clinically impartial (and i love it so much for that), and its ryuk that has the last word.

"there's no point at all."

of course theres no point. none of this was ever supposed to happen. that is what matters more than all the hurt and the crimes and the pain.

and that's... actually okay, because it's over now.

yes, death note has many really important themes present in its story, but its viewpoint is nihilism first and foremost. thats why its so fun and easy to play around with all the other messages, because no matter what fun or torment or awful things or righteous justice or absolute nothingness or sentimentality happens in between, there is always an end.

there is always the end.

#*naomi was killed off bc the author thought shed solve the case too quickly. ironic. i dont think it was meant to forward a theme other than #'light evil! oh no!!!' bc it had minimal buildup and absolutely no repercussions. it is just kind of smth that happens #everything in death note is just smth that happens bc. at some point i just have to admit its NOT RLLY WELL WRITTEN #but it says something. it says many things. and i like balancing the two in my head #death note #personal #**>reduces anime ending to a footnote /j #anime ending: light regrets COMING THIS FAR- not his crimes. he sees l as another regret and dies.#another example of the tragic self (and tragic relationship) ultimately being more important than morals #l would be proud of the torment he inflicted on light if he were not fucking dead #i would also bring up the argument that the way every death note character uses the note is so extreme that its hard to compare them #to real people but lets assume that the author was trying to replicate how actual human beings work as much as possible*#you made it deep enough into the tags would you like to hear about near and mello being nonbinary—#'there is an end so why not enjoy the middle? chain yourself to a hot boy eat strawberry shortcake be bisexual and lie'#*either that or they were just explicitly trying to have fun like they said they was doing #light yagami #sure ill tag my boy #'you cant say the curtains are just blue!' well can i say the curtains were shittily made #norrie if you look at this post ever again ill death note you myself

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