#these are a lot of generalizations and trends I've noticed after being in fandom for nearly 11 years they pop up all the damn time

[maxwell-grant]

Didn't realize you've read Riddler: Year One, any thoughts on it ? Also, in a more general way, what are your thoughts on the Riddler ?

Someone sent me an ask the past week or so saying that The Penguin is everything that the Joker movies should have been, and I don't think I agree on that in regards to The Penguin specifically. But if we're talking about a "Batman-less Batman villain origin story about a lonely suicidal man struggling with poverty and mental illness exacerbated by child abuse, who is pushed down through the cracks of society deep into the pits of his own mind until he can only save himself by becoming a horrible force of social upheaval and political terrorism, finally discovering joy and a reason to live at the expense of everyone around him, and now he will be Batman's problem someday", well this just completely embarasses Joker (2019) on every level. Impressively drawn, impressively written, impressive on it's own and as a prequel to the movie, WAY better than a movie actor's comic book tie-in has any right to be, and one of the greatest Batman comics ever made. Issue #5 in particular is one of the best and most harrowing comic issues and format breaks I've ever seen in the medium, and even if it's entirely self-contained, it very much belongs in the exact same conversation and should be considered inseparable from The Batman and The Penguin.

We spens 4 issues boiling the frog over every painful corner of Edward's childhood and humanity and misery, taking us through painfully intimate views and perspectives inside his headspace, seeing how and why he justifies his worldview and how easy it even is to do so, feeling truly sorry for this hopeless wretch even though we know he's losing it bad bad baddy bad bad and is going to step off the deep end forever. And then Issue 5 happens and suddenly you are one of the people in Gotham City tasked with sifting through this serial killer's personal diary and you can hear that creep shouting with that distorted voice, you can feel the final death rattle of Edward Nashton's soul ending where The Riddler begins to scream in your head 'I NEVER KNEW I HAD A REASON TO BREATHE", and by Issue 6 you fully understand why and how nobody was prepared for him, and why what he is and does and embodies is going to drag the city into an abyss it may never recover from, and why this was never going to stop even after his arrest, even after his defeat and humiliation in the movie. Everything here adds layers of sympathy and tragedy and heartbreak to the character, while simultaneously making everything he is and does in the movie so much more harrowing and disturbing, holy shit he really staked EVERYTHING, everyone's lives included, on being noticed by his savior.

I was already very much on board with Dano Riddler in the movie, whose execution absolutely sold what should have been, on paper, a storm of unadvisable fandom pitches and uninspired trends and straight-up bad ideas ("What if The Ridder was the Zodiac Killer", "What if The Riddler was a 4chan mass-shooter type", "What if The Riddler was a political terrorist with legitimate grievances but whose final goal was to kill off scores of people for little reason", "What if The Riddler was a creepy fascist responsible for a QAnon cult that ends the movie by metaphorically storming the capitol", "What if The Riddler was really, really, really obsessed with Batman", "What if The Riddler was another Dark Opposite Batman", fucking "What if The Riddler was Hush" even) worked into just this miracle magic bullet of a new take on the guy, fully capturing a lot of the essential bullet points of what makes The Riddler tick as a character while spinning them into new and significant ways befitting this increased role he has in the movie. Rereading the story now, so much of the movie even feels like it's specifically referencing the first Riddler story - The Mayor of Gotham City as a target, Riddler misdirecting Batman with a big target while his real plan involved a flood, Edward putting on a costume and naming himself The Riddler specifically because he wants to get Batman's attention, the glass maze, the written letters to police headquarters, The Eagle's Nest that is a nightclub and also the home of a millionaire with a bird last name (Falcone), a driverless vehicle careening wildly into a public place, even how the very first thing we learn about this fucker is that he cheats to win.

The guy in the movie is a version that fully works on it's own, but it clicks SO much more strongly and cohesively when you read this comic and what it establishes for him. It's the scene in the movie where the section of his diary reads "I must become something more" while Bruce finds the panicked desperate bat rattling against a cage, the thematic parallel between them that is the scariest thing he finds in the entire movie, but developed across six issues. This even begins with Eddie living through his version of the Wayne murders, with the first time he's felt anything other than crushing despair and misery, in part because he's seen the first hint of the puzzle he needs to solve, and where he needs to go. The moment the world stopped making sense for Bruce is the moment that the world started to make sense for Edward.

We understand, around the same time he understands, the childish nightmare that must become the pattern of his entire life from that moment onwards, how Edward Nashton would have killed himself, and no one would have cared, had he not become The Riddler, and how the only alternative to "Hey Edward why don't you crawl into the black hole inside yourself" is to, in fact, find this black hole inside of you and shaped like you and push other people into it instead. Become the creature of the night who can punch crime forever, become the avenging force too great for the Falcones to handle, become the kingpin whose name alone will live forever, become someone that the entire city will never again ignore or forget.

We see how it's less that he's been planning for this for so long, and more that his entire life has been broken and hammered into a Riddler shaped hole, and then when Batman dropped into it, he could start to understand what it is and put a name in it, in the fact that he's been training his entire life for this without knowing. Getting comfortable with flushing rats and making bombs at the orphanage, getting intimately and painfully familiar with self-loathing and alienation and misanthropic contempt for this city and it's people who sit by and allow all of this to happen, surviving his suicide attempts without being able to explain why, searching for answers as to why it hurts so much to live broken and unfulfilled and miserable and why he even bothers to keep on doing so, having nothing to love in his life but numbers and puzzles, spending his entire life invisible while trying to get Thomas Wayne and then his boss to notice and praise him, and then being the wrong man at the right place to begin his campaign, a little nobody accountant who noticed an inconsistency in the numbers, put the pieces together, and then decided he was gonna do something about it because he knew it could be done, because there was someone out there who showed it could be done, and if Eddie joined in, maybe this someone would notice him, let him be his friend.

Batman and R, forever.

(People don't talk nearly enough about how this Riddler's entire life ambition was to recreate Tim Drake's origin story, and they should, it's pretty funny)

And to be honest, I think this is the first Riddler origin story I've ever really liked. Some of the others, particularly the first, have their charms, and this one certainly wouldn't fit most takes on the character, even most of the ones I like, but I've never really been fully sold on the idea of a Riddler origin story until this one, he's always been a very backstory-proof guy to me. This doesn't have any particularly obvious shorthand moment as to why Edward became The Riddler, so much as an entire life twisted and torn and abandoned and rotten in ways big and small until this is what came out of him. No immediately abusive fathers or test cheating scandals or major company backstabbings as defining tragedies, just life for a poor orphan in Gotham City who can't figure out the answer to what's missing from his life until he does.

Still a horrible nerd hopelessly trapped in a life of trying to intellectually one-up everyone as the only thing he lives for and, like every horrible nerd, knowing that one day he will be recognized for what he is and then they'll all see how wrong and stupid and savage these stupid savage idiots all were to look down on him. Still a man driven to impose order on the world the way he believes it has to be. Still a cheater who loves puzzles and answers and the thrill of intellectual stimulation and victory more than anything else (and in this case, having had absolutely nothing else to even love about his life), and still very much this guy at the end:

I do have a lot of thoughts on The Riddler, and I think part of why I might not talk about him as much is because he's not a character I tend to have really exclusive or particular preferences for. There are a LOT of Riddlers out there, maybe more so than there are Jokers out there, and there's not really with him the definitive must-be-like-this that the other Batman rogues have. Everybody approaches the puzzle differently if they do so at all, and I like a lot of these Riddlers! They connect with each other surprisingly well even, in spite of being incompatible as the same person.

He's gone through some real ups and downs over the decades: given stardom in the Adam West show that made him a definitive Batman villain and spread his modus operandi across all the others, sacrificed in the altar of camp insecurity along with fellow snooty oddball Penguin, defanged and turned into a parody of himself, refitted for joke status, re-refitted for surprise baddie status, given a whole new lease on life and his own gimmicks with the arrival of computer puzzles and the internet and given his fangs back and then amplified, pushed back to the big leagues more horrible and topical than ever before and exponentially increasing as such until his next big movie showing, torn in multitudes across multiverses of takes and ideas, almost too many to even consolidate them all.

I like the first Riddler of Bill Finger's original story in Tec #140, this curious satisfaction-seeking master cheater growing exponentially more dangerous and more varied and more assured the more he fades into his endless barrage of traps and toys and puzzles,. I love Frank Gorshin's Riddler, and everybody loves Frank Gorshin's Riddler, he is the reason The Riddler became an iconic Batman villain overnight. I like John Glover in TAS, and I like Robert Englund's cold ghostly showman in The Batman (2002) much more. I love the Arkham games version of Riddler, probably because I never actually played the games and had to collect his dumb trophies. I love Paul Dini's Detective Riddler, and I especially love Brent Spiner's take on the guy for Justice League Action. I LOVE the more classic take on Riddler as played by John Leguizamo in The Batman Audio Adventures, and I LOVE Paul Dano's Riddler in The Batman, and they couldn't be more incompatible with each other.

I love the Riddlers who continuously undermine themselves in the name of criminal artistry and who look down on the profit-seeking rubes who think any of this is about money, and I love the Riddlers who are ultimately con-men doing money heists because they want to be the only crooks in town smart enough to have something to show for all their work at the end of the day. I like Riddlers who are widely despised and regarded with annoyance and disdain by the city and their fellow rogues, and I like the Riddlers who have good professional relationships with the other rogues, and the Riddlers who managed to become darkly inspiring figures in their own right. I love the Riddlers who've subsumed themselves into the mysteries and horror they embody, and I love the pathological pattern-finders trying to find a way out of this weird pathetic life, even if their efforts will be doomed to failure - The Riddler couldn't out-think his way out of Batman's toybox no matter how much he tried, and he has no desire to - where would it leave him? Down there with all the troglodytes? Please.

I can get on board with very human, conversational Eddies, the Eddies that did stints as sideshow carnies, that can tell on some level that they should be doing better things than this, who'll do bored stick-em-ups to fund the attention-seeking tantrums they're actually passionate about, and I can get on board with Eddies who are truly uniquely vile and scary even compared to the other Rogues in the room, who uphold this terrifyingly cold perversion of fairness, imposing a stark and utilitarian worldview on the city by which the penalty for falling short of his games is murder, that sheer calculated murderous menace that Frank Gorshin brought when he ended his first episode leering on a helpless Robin strapped to an operating table. And if I ever thought I couldn't get on board with the Riddler as a major serious scary existential threat to life on Gotham, well, The Batman sure proved me wrong. I may not love him as passionately as I do The Penguin or Hugo Strange, but I love too many versions of this guy to ever be able to narrow them all down, and there are even more still to be discovered.

Endlessly adaptable, able to change and mutate with the times on the same kinds of grand orchestral shifts and minute beats that Batman does, a greater variety of personalities than the Joker if not quite the same versatility (and where would we be without these two always pissing each other off or making out or both, living in each other's respective negative spaces), always an enduring and entertaining opponent regardless of whether he's the most pathetic man alive or a malevolent genius beyond understanding who routinely puppeteers an entire city and it's greatest hero into putting on their greatest performances for him. Always an adapting puzzle box, always leading into the next version of himself, always beguiling, and always becoming the most frustrating thing that Batman has to deal with, whether he's systematically destroying Batman's rationale and will and ability to be Batman or just being naturally the worst guy to deal with at the most unfortunate possible moment, in itself another key to his endurance. The Joker can murder sidekicks and torch the city and routinely try and drive Batman to breaking points of rage and indignity and despair - but sometimes The Riddler can get Batman there just by being himself, as anyone who's had to deal with this asshole in the Arkham games can attest.

It is imperative to believe in and understand Batman's worldview that his villains can be saved because everyone can and must be saved, just as it is to understand that, out of everyone in his Rogues Gallery, if The Riddler was drowning, Bruce would be inclined to throw him a cinderblock, and The Riddler would be glad to receive it, so long as his last gasps of breath could be spent laughing at Batman's inability to match wits with him.

For a villain who is meant to be fixated on knowing the one correct answer to every riddle, he’s uniquely able to be reinterpreted in endless new ways. He’s gone from being a camp and colorful performance artist to one of the most sadistic and sinister villains Batman can ever go up against. There is no one way to write a Riddler. There’s no single solution! And writers will always like the challenge that presents.

Just when readers think they’ve seen everything the Riddler has left to offer us, and the character is finally exhausted… a new lime-green envelope pops through the door of Wayne Manor to challenge us all once again. It seems we’ll never get tired of trying to unravel the Riddler, and writers will never give up on unraveling the character’s fullest potential. It unites readers, writers, and caped crusaders alike: this time, surely, we’ll crack him. - Batman's Greatest Enemy is...The Riddler, by Steve Morris

[soleminisanction]

I got a bee in my bonnet and spent last night crunching these numbers to confirm a long-held suspicion of mine, and now I'm going to do something with them even if it's only interesting to me. So.

I went through and tallied up all of the fics AO3 currently (as of 3/27/24) has under the tags "Trans Tim Drake," "Nonbinary Tim Drake," "Genderfluid Tim Drake" and "Genderqueer Tim Drake," since I figured that cast a wide enough net without committing myself to reading every fic vaguely tagged Trans Character to figure out which character they were talking about.

I then did the same for Dick, Jason, Damian and Bruce and, after comparing those numbers against each other and against the total number of fics each character has under their general tag, followed up with Duke, Babs, Cass, Steph and Kate, and then Kon, Cassie, and Bart for good measure.

The results confirm the suspicions I was going into check and are really interesting, to me at least:

Despite having far fewer stories overall than Jason, Bruce or Dick, Tim has by far the most stories tagging him under the trans umbrella (653 out of 58,395) and is the only member of the Bats for whom at least one full percent of his stories fall under that category (1.12% to be exact.) He actually has more total trans stories than Jason and Damian combined (308 out of 71,120 and 255 out of 42,607, equaling 0.43% and 0.59%, respectively) and outstretches the 2nd place ranker, Dick, by over a hundred (who clocks in at 438 out of 79,057 -- 0.55%). Bruce amusingly has by far the most stories overall (90,305) but the fewest trans stories (185) for the lowest percentage among the boys (0.2%).

The only one who comes anywhere close to matching Tim percentage-wise is Bart, who has far fewer stories to his name but a ratio of 62 out of 5,717 for 1.08%. I was thinking maybe Young Justice might have a higher percentage than the Bats due to their strong queer fandom but that only really proved true for Bart, with both Cassie and Kon coming in at only 0.2% and 0.28% trans umbrella percentage respectively (actual count 6 out of 2,874 and 39 out of 13,746).

Cassie's numbers correspond with the fact that women just, do not get a lot of these stories, at all, even compared to the general lack of attention they're paid by fanfiction spheres in general. Steph and Kate both clocked in at falling 0.17% under the trans umbrella (29 out of 16,638 for Steph, 5 out of 2,897 for Kate); Cass got 0.13% (21 out of 15,769) and Babs only 0.07%, the lowest percentage out of anyone I calculated for (11 out of 15,785). Duke's showing was a respectable 0.55% (34 out of 6,166) which puts him about even with the rest of the boys.

All of which I just went through to confirm a gut instinct I've had for a while: even in light of the noticeable trend in fandom towards increased visibility for trans and other queer-gendered people over the last decade and a half or so, it's a notable Thing for the DC comics fandom to explore with Tim Drake in specific.

And that doesn't even take into account things like the over 200 "Tim Drake is Catlad | Stray" fics, which almost always have some element of queered gender or at least femme'd sexuality to them, far outstripping any of the other Robin boys' spins in that AU (those counts stand at, respectively: Damian - 11, Dick - 33, Jason - 79, Tim - 242). Or the 11 fics logged under the "Tim Drake is Batgirl" tag, a category that doesn't even exist for any of the other male Robins.

(What makes that last one extra hilarious to me that most people don't know one canonical version of Tim has been a member of the Batgirls.) Part of me wants to use that parenthetic detail as a segway to ramble about the various canon snippets I think probably contributed to this, from Tim being presented as "the pretty one" who most often gets the "looks like his mother" comments to the fact that he is the only male Robin who's ever cross-dressed for an undercover mission and even though it only happened once the Internet will never forget Caroline Hill.

But this post is long enough as it is and I don't really have a point beyond I think this is interesting and cool so I'm going to leave off here for now and put my numbers under a cut so people have the raw data to look at if they'd like to.

TL;DR - Based on the numbers, the internet believes Tim Drake is more likely to be trans than any other member of the Bat-family or Young Justice, and I think that has interesting implications about his character and fandom. It's neat.

Data Taken: 3/27/24

Tim Drake: 58,395 Trans Tim Drake: 513 Nonbinary Tim Drake: 46 Genderfluid Tim Drake: 89 Genderqueer Tim Drake: 5

Dick Grayson: 79,057 Trans Dick Grayson: 399 Nonbinary Dick Grayson: 15 Genderfluid Dick Grayson: 23 Genderqueer Dick Grayson: 1

Jason Todd: 71,120 Trans Jason Todd: 286 Nonbinary Jason Todd: 17 Genderqueer/Genderfluid Jason Todd: 5 (4 have both tags and are the only ones tagged Genderqueer Jason Todd)

Damian Wayne: 42,607 Trans Damian Wayne: 215  Nonbinary Damian Wayne: 37 Genderfluid Damian Wayne: 3 Genderqueer Damian Wayne: 0

Bruce Wayne: 90,305 Trans Bruce Wayne: 180 Nonbinary Bruce Wayne: 5 (2 also tagged Trans Bruce Wayne) Genderfluid Bruce Wayne: 1 Genderqueer Bruce Wayne: 1

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Total Trans Umbrella Tim Drake: 653 Total Trans Umbrella Dick Grayson: 438 Total Trans Umbrella Jason Todd: 308 (313 if you count the GQ tag separately) Total Trans Umbrella Damian Wayne: 255 Total Trans Umbrella Bruce Wayne: 185 (187)

Percentage Trans Umbrella Tim Drake: 1.12% (1.11825) Percentage Trans Umbrella Dick Grayson: 0.55% (0.55403) Percentage Trans Umbrella Jason Todd: 0.43% (0.43307 or 0.44010) Percentage Trans Umbrella Damian Wayne: 0.59% (0.59849) Percentage Trans Umbrella Bruce Wayne: 0.2% (0.20466)

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Duke Thomas: 6,166 Trans Duke Thomas: 20 Nonbinary Duke Thomas: 14 Genderfluid Duke Thomas: 0 Genderqueer Duke Thomas: 0

Barbara Gordon: 15,785 Trans Barbara Gordon: 11 Nonbinary Barbara Gordon: 0 Genderfluid Barbara Gordon: 0 Genderqueer Barbara Gordon: 0

Cassandra Cain: 15,769 Trans Cassandra Cain: 15 Nonbinary Cassandra Cain: 6 Genderfluid Cassandra Cain: 0 Genderqueer Cassandra Cain: 0

Stephanie Brown: 16,638 Trans Stephanie Brown: 27 Nonbinary Stephanie Brown: 2 Genderfluid Stephanie Brown: 0 Genderqueer Stephanie Brown: 0

Kate Kane (DCU): 2,897 Trans Kate Kane: 4 Nonbinary Kate Kane: 0 Genderfluid Kate Kane: 1 Genderqueer Kate Kane: 0

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Total Trans Umbrella Duke Thomas: 34 Total Trans Umbrella Barbara Gordon: 11 Total Trans Umbrella Cassandra Cain: 21 Total Trans Umbrella Stephanie Brown: 29 Total Trans Umbrella Kate Kane: 5

Percentage Trans Umbrella Duke Thomas: 0.55% (0.55141) Percentage Trans Umbrella Barbara Gordon: 0.07% (0.06968) Percentage Trans Umbrella Cassandra Cain: 0.13% (0.13317) Percentage Trans Umbrella Stephanie Brown: 0.17% (0.17429) Percentage Trans Umbrella Kate Kane: 0.17% (0.17259)

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Kon-El | Conner Kent: 13,746 Trans Kon-El | Conner Kent: 19 Nonbinary Kon-El | Conner Kent: 19 Genderfluid Kon-El | Conner Kent: 1 Genderqueer Kon-El | Conner Kent: 0

Bart Allen: 5,717 Trans Bart Allen: 40 Nonbinary Bart Allen: 20 Genderfluid Bart Allen: 1 Genderqueer Bart Allen: 1

Cassie Sandsmark: 2,874 Trans Cassie Sandsmark: 4 Nonbinary Cassie Sandsmark: 2 Genderfluid Cassie Sandsmark: 0 Genderqueer Cassie Sandsmark: 0

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Total Trans Umbrella Kon-El: 39 Total Trans Umbrella Bart Allen: 62 Total Trans Umbrella Cassie Sandsmark: 6

Percentage Trans Umbrella Kon-El: 0.28% (0.28371)  Percentage Trans Umbrella Bart Allen: 1.08% (1.08448) Percentage Trans Umbrella Cassie Sandsmark: 0.2% (0.20876)

[theotterpenguin]

there’s a post floating around here claiming that sokka is the only person keeping the atla kids alive and it very much reminded me of how the labor that women perform is often undervalued and overlooked. (and this post is not meant to be targeted towards op at all, but rather is speaking towards a general trend that i’ve noticed in the atla fandom)

i recently rewatched atla and it’s surprised me that the fandom interpretation is that only sokka is worried about the group’s lack of food/money, particularly in book 1, because katara worries over the exact same things and is usually the one backing up sokka. in “the warriors of kyoshi,” sokka reminds aang that they need to make it to the northern water tribe soon and stop making pitstops, and katara agrees with him. when they stop at kyoshi island, katara reminds aang multiple times that it’s risky to stay in one place for too long. in “the waterbending scroll,” sokka worries over how little money they have left after aang wastes money on a bison whistle, so katara takes charge of keeping track of the money instead, and she also reminds aang that they need to practice waterbending, not focus on having fun. in “the storm,” katara realizes they’re out of food and says they need to go to the market, then sokka gets a job so they’ll have more money for food. in “the king of omashu” and “the deserter,” sokka worries that aang will be discovered, and katara agrees so she suggests that they wear disguises. in “the cave of two lovers,” sokka says they need to focus on getting to omashu without getting sidetracked, and katara agrees. in “avatar day,” sokka and katara buy food/supplies together while aang waits for them. 

despite sokka being seen as the pragmatic sibling, both katara and sokka are pretty united in their practicality and trying to keep their mission on track. katara only makes exceptions on a couple occasions when she values standing up against injustice even more than sticking to the plan, such as freeing the imprisoned earthbenders or helping the fire nation village as the painted lady. and the way that i've seen people use katara’s passion for social justice as a way to argue that she’s “irresponsible” seems a bit disingenuous considering that she sees it as a moral duty to help people in need (and let alone everything else she does on the day-to-day to help the group).

(“the library” is in fact the only episode in the entire show that i can remember where katara disagrees with sokka and says there’s no harm in having some fun in their downtime. and as soon as sokka finds out about the existence of the library he’s also fine with taking a break from their mission lol. despite what the fandom thinks, it’s not the norm).

and while there’s a lot of focus on sokka’s mapping/planning skills, there’s also so much that katara does so much behind the scenes that isn’t as explicitly acknowledged. “the chase” tells us that katara, aang, and sokka all contribute pretty equally to setting up their camp while traveling. in “jet” they all help pack up camp, in “the great divide” sokka sets up their tent, katara collects firewood, and aang gathers food. and yet even though they all seem to contribute pretty equally to setting up camp, we are shown so many scenes of katara doing extra chores while the others are preoccupied with something else. in “the southern air temple,” katara packs up their supplies while sokka is sleeping, then again packs up everything while sokka’s eating the food momo gave him. “the warriors of kyoshi” episode implies katara is the only one mending everyone’s clothes, and while sokka is getting his ass kicked training with the kyoshi warriors and aang is entertaining his fan girls, katara is shopping for food and supplies.

in “the painted lady,” the group all goes shopping for food together, but it’s katara who cooks dinner for everyone (shown twice in this episode). in “the runaway,” katara’s at camp cooking for everyone while they’re off tricking a gambler to make more money. sokka, aang, and toph buy food/supplies, then leave them with katara to sort out while they go have fun in the village (and sokka gets to buy his messenger hawk). and katara’s the one seen as a “buzzkill” for worrying about their safety. this pattern continues in “the western air temple” and “the firebending masters” where we see katara cooking and serving food to the group, but there aren’t scenes of them doing other chores.

and of course, “the desert” is an entire episode dedicated to katara keeping the group alive. and that’s not even to mention the countless amount of emotional support that she gives to her friends, often putting other people’s needs above her own. sure, katara might not be the person with the map or the master plan, but that doesn’t mean her contributions are any less important.

sokka’s character arc involves growing into a strong leader and strategist, so it makes sense that the fandom often likes to focus on the moments that go into building this arc, the moments where he does take the lead and is responsible. but for katara? it’s just something required of her and of most female characters. taking on extra responsibilities is something to be admired in men, but just expected of women. 

and to be clear, i’m not saying that sokka is not responsible, he definitely is. i just find it interesting that some parts of this fandom have a skewed perception of katara’s role in the group, often claiming her to be the “irresponsible” or “immature” sibling while poor, exhausted Dad!Sokka™ is the only one keeping these silly kids alive. sokka and katara both had to grow up too fast, they’re both kids who are very mature for their age and took on adult responsibilities far too young (though in different ways). acknowledging the sacrifices katara made and the labor she took on to take care of others isn’t diminishing sokka’s character arc, it’s something he even admits in the show himself. and i love their relationship because even with such a complicated family dynamic, it’s so clear how much they love and support each other.

[professorcalculusstanaccount]

hi! loving your art. I was watching your awesome stories/gifs and I was wondering: how did Chang develop his feelings for Tintin? Did he discover them before or after him? How did he react and why? (English is not my first language so if you see a grammatical mistake, I'm sorry. Also, sorry if so many questions made you feel like you were in a philosophy exam)

Thank you so much! As a contrast to the rest of the Marlinspike team I'm writing Chang as someone who makes friends and develops crushes pretty easily!

I imagine he's had a crush on Tintin for some time, possibly from when they first met. He's been at the mercy of his circumstances for most of his life until that point - Tintin basically makes him feel capable of doing stuff.

He's pretty heartbroken after the Blue Lotus. Tintin doesn't contact him for years. Chang is struggling to adjust to his new family and is failing at school, having missed out on a good education for a few years prior. Until Tibet he feels pretty hopeless, he will never live up to the time when he took down a drug ring.

His near death experience in Tibet shakes him out of this rut. He starts to travel and take up hobbies like dance and photography. Didi trains him in some basic martial arts. Tintin makes an effort to actually stay in touch this time. Chang has some abandonment issues as he's frequently lost people throughout his life, so he's someone who's willing to give people second chances, even if they've hurt him badly. Chang thinks he's well over his crush on Tintin when he comes around to Belgium for his studies, but falls for him again very quickly!

Unlike Tintin, Chang is a lot more comfortable with who he is. He's used to being the odd one out and has generally low expectations for himself, so just goes with the flow.

Below I talk a little with how I'm going about writing him and the historical context surrounding this, cw for mentions of racism (sinophobia) and queerphobia:

I'm writing Chang as bi, I thought it would be interesting to explore as Asian men were perceived differently in the 30s compared to today. While Asian men in the West are currently heavily desexualised in the early 20th century they were stereotyped as predatory and deviant. In London a lot of Chinese immigrants were male dockworkers, so when they married white women there was a lot of fearmongering about predatory and disloyal Chinese men.

A lot of depictions of Asian men in Western media reflected these stereotypes (and often used queercoding to push the idea of Asian men being animalistic seducers - General Henry Chang in Shanghai Express (1932) was written to be bisexual while posing as a threat to the white leads). Some examples off the top of my head include Hishuru Tori from The Cheat (1915) and The Mask of Fu Manchu (1932). Novels frequently depicted Chinese drug lords with borderline supernatural powers in manipulation.

On the other hand I've noticed how fans frequently depict Chang as someone who's submissive, demure and soft, which ignores how ridiculously brave and proactive he is in canon (stealing documents from police officers, charging into a man immediately after getting shot at by a machine gun, I could go on!). It's a common example of Fandom Racism (not accusing anyone specifically, it's just a trend I've noticed.)

When writing Chang I'm kinda reckoning with two different eras. From a contemporary angle I'm writing him as a love interest, which as an Asian guy I rarely see in media today. I also gotta consider his own time and context, how he would navigate being a queer Chinese guy, and how that would affect his relationship with others and himself.

[owlhari]

a guide to not being ableist about norman becile

greeterings, fellow steam powered giraffe fans. while browsing becile content, i've unfortunately noticed a lot of ableism, both subtle and not, when it comes to folks talking about norman. i want to write a quick "guide" on how to not do that.

some disclaimers: this was not inspired by any particular post or user. it's a general trend i noticed, and to be fair, there are many years-old posts in this fandom with authors that may have changed since writing them.

don't take it as a personal attack if you realize you've done something mentioned in this post. take it as motivation to learn and grow!

also, i do not have a visible body/facial difference or an intellectual disability, but i am physically disabled and neurodivergent in multiple ways. i may have some "authority" on this topic, but don't take my word as the final say for any of this.

mini-essay starts below the cut.

let's start with language.

when describing norman and the 1950 incident, try to use neutral words. instead of saying he is deformed, disfigured, or crippled... say he was changed or transformed.

of course, if you are writing fic where a character is supposed to be ableist towards him, or maybe norman's feelings about himself immediately after the incident, it might make sense to use language with negative connotations.

but out of character, there's no excuse for using slurs. please don't call norman crippled. there are so many other words you can use.

why is neutral language important? because disability is not a negative thing by default. having a facial difference or a cognitive disability is not inherently bad.

(side note that yes, the official timeline uses language that is... maybe not the best. the official timeline also hasn't been updated since 2015.)

sort of related to language, look at canon for norman's speech patterns.

he appears in pages 11 and 12 of the comic, with plenty of dialogue. he does not speak "like a child" or have any apparent speech difficulties. of course, there's nothing wrong with that (i have a stutter! again, disability is neutral!) but the fact is norman speaks like every other character we see in the comic.

he enunciates himself just fine, he uses vocabulary you would expect an adult to use, he can be sarcastic and make jokes.

don't write dialogue for norman where he talks in the way you believe people with intellectual disabilities "should" talk. it just makes you look like a jerk who makes assumptions.

my last big point: wanda and norman's marriage.

it is canonical information that wanda walter married norman and took his last name. wanda's last name being becile in the timeline was confirmed by bunny bennett as not a typo or a mistake, she really did marry norman.

there is no reasoning given for their marriage, and they are never shown interacting in the comic. we don't even have a date for when they got together, aside from the fact that it was before 2015. however, this does not inherently mean their marriage was forced, that they're unhappy, or that wanda "had no other choice."

norman has been living at walter manor since at least 1956. if wanda truly did not want to be around him, why would he be there at all?

she has clearly forgiven him for what he did, else he wouldn't have been allowed to live with her for over fifty years. there are war-enhanced robots in the manor at all times, and you're telling me if norman made wanda uncomfortable in any drastic way, he wouldn't have been kicked out immediately?

of course, as i said, there is no truly canon reason behind their marriage. you're free to headcanon whatever you like. but if you're dead-set on writing that wanda was coerced or married him out of pity, i'd like you to consider why.

if norman didn't have a facial difference, if he wasn't disabled, would you be making those headcanons?

and finally... why does this matter, if norman's appearance isn't anything a human could possibly look like?

it matters because the way you talk about norman might come across as what you think of actual disabled people and it might make actual disabled people uncomfortable.

if your first thought when seeing norman in the comic (who, despite how little we see of him, seems happy and fulfilled) is that he must be a miserable man, suffering from his disabilities, with a wife who married him out of pity... i encourage you to do some reflecting about that.

thank you for reading. please be nice to disabled people, and have a wonderful day.

[welcomingdisaster]

disclaimer: this is very much not intended to be referring any one specific depiction and more of a general fandom trend-- i am not talking about any one specific art, fic, etc.

that being said: does anyone else feel a little strange about kidnap!fam depictions that have m&m hugging/holding/picking up the twins early on in that relationship?

i do believe in that line about love growing between maglor and the twins, and i do 100% accept that could have been sweet/cuddly at some point. but i've noticed a trend where adults tend to ignore the emotions/bodily autonomy of children in fiction, and a lot of the depictions that have m&m cuddling e&e on their way out of the havens kind of give me that vibe?

like, i used to work in a daycare with four year olds. i would have kids that came to me every day, who trusted me and liked me, and felt safe with me. and still, when those kids got truly, really upset, most of the time they wanted their parents, and comforting them often felt like a poor substitute. and a lot of kids, even at that age, do not wanna be touched by strangers, even strangers they have good reason to trust.

kids are smart. they know who has been there for them, they know who is hurting the people they care about, and they are not going to just latch on to the closest adult and forget their parents.

i fully think a year into living with him, elrond and elros love and trust maglor. but immediately after the massacre? those kids are not going to want to be picked up by two scary enemies covered in blood. those kids are most likely screaming and crying and hitting. those kids want their mom. those kids are telling maglor they hate him 1000x times.

and i feel like that messiness only makes that relationship more interesting and compelling to me? like, i think it's more compelling for maglor to decide to take care of kids who are (rightfully!) very hostile to him, i think it's more interesting for elrond and elros to have very mixed and very complicated feelings, and i think the fact that the three of them end up loving each other like family is only more powerful in that scenario.

[we-love-morioh-cho]

Theory - Usagi Is Meryl Mei's Son

From the first or second chapter of The Jojolands, I have had a theory that Usagi will be revealed as Meryl Mei's son. For the record, some of this could be me overthinking it BUT, just for fun, I thought I should compile my 'evidence'.

I should say that I don't follow the fandom much outside of Tumblr so idk if other people have thought of this.

Spoilers for the first 7 chapters of The Jojolands under the cut. Heads up that this post got kinda long and dense.

Visual Similarities

I want to start off with some visual similarities between these two. While some of this could just be stylistic trends in Araki's art, I want to point out the general shape of their jawlines and their eyes. I think Usagi is meant to have a fuller face then the other teens but this is shaky. It does look similar to Meryl Mei's face shape though. I also see similarities in their noses and eyebrows BUT I do attribute that mostly to Araki's style given how similar a lot of his noses and eyebrows are. While Usagi is sometimes drawn with wider and rounder eyes, generally they seem to be more pointed/angular and (with the 'winged eyeliner' thing he has) they resemble Meryl Mei's eyes more than the other protagonists. Below I've put a photo of his eyes alongside Dragona's and Rohan's just to help illustrate this as best as I can.

(This is a dumb point but while collecting photos I noticed Usagi and Meryl Mei both had ponytails which.... is probably nothing but I thought it was so cute.)

She Has A Mysterious Family

When we first meet Meryl Mei in Chapter 1, we get a description of her from Jodio. While Jodio does emphasise how mysterious and weird she is, one thing he mentions hearing a rumour about is her having a husband and child (as far as I can tell the sex of the child isn't specified). While this is just a rumour, I guarantee there will be some sort of follow-up to this. Early on, it introduces the idea that Meryl Mei has family that even her employees don't know about - I don't think it's too crazy to say she could have them in her business. Again, it could point to something else but it feels very early to be dropping info like that.

Introductory Scenes

A very small thing but right after Usagi's introduction, like the very next panel, is when we first see Meryl Mei at the school. This would be a classic way of hinting at some connection between these two, but I actually want to go into the previous scene on the bus.

So the first scene we see of Usagi is him asking Jodio on the bus for drugs. Jodio is alarmed by this since they are surrounded by other students and responds by bashing Usagi. When they get off the bus though, Jodio and Paco do their routine to exchange Usagi's money for some drugs. While it's suggested Usagi is an addict, I think in hindsight it's clear that he isn't. Usagi is set up to be a fool but is then shown to be intelligent. He 'betrays' the gang but then comes back and proves his loyalty and 5000 IQ. I don't think it's crazy to say that the gang's assessment of him as an addict is inaccurate too, there's more to this but I'll get into it later.

My theory is that this scene isn't an addict asking for drugs on the bus randomly, I think this is some sort of test. Jodio is the youngest of the gang and, as shown in Chapter 2, his naivety and inexperience could cause problems for Meryl Mei. With the diamond heist coming up, as well as us hearing that Meryl Mei wants to expand her business, I think it's possible she got Usagi to ask him for drugs in a public space to see if Jodio would slip up. Just to make sure he has enough common sense and discretion to not reveal any info BUT that he still manages to make the transaction afterwards. Otherwise, it's just weird in hindsight that Usagi would do this.

EDIT: Didn't think of this until a few days after initially making this post, but if the bus scene was a test, it could be a parallel to the undercover cop scene in Chapter 2. He's being tested and lied to by both sides of the crime struggle and maybe his initial failure with the female cop is what prompted Meryl Mei's test (I think the undercover cop scene is a flashback but correct me if I'm wrong). Jodio's ego and self-worth seem like they'll be explored this part so maybe this reveal would be a bit of a blow to his confidence?

Usagi Joining The Mission

So.... there obviously has to be something going on here right? Meryl Mei somehow knows about Usagi and trusts him! (Also I completely missed that she says here he isn't an addict!!! Paco still thinks he is one in Chapter 2 but come on now). She wants him to specifically go on this extremely important heist even though the others barely know him. There has to be something going on here, and I think that him being her son would be a good explanation! She would obviously know him, his abilities, and would trust him. It would almost be like having her own set of eyes on the group to make sure the mission goes well. I don't know if any relationship between the two could garner more trust than a parent and child. And given that Meryl Mei literally sells drugs to children, I don't think she'd hesitate to involve her child in the business and send him into danger tbh.

Before I move on, I quickly wanna mention 2 small things that I noticed but seriously doubt are intentional. First is that there is a rabbit-inspired outfit design behind Meryl Mei in one panel and Usagi means 'rabbit' in Japanese. (Remember how The Jojolands was first teased with the rabbit image?) It also happens to be right beside the panel mentioning her child BUT I'LL STOP.

The second dumb thing in this scene I noticed is how Usagi suddenly shows up at the very end of the rundown of the mission. We get a panel specifically showing Dragona locking the front door after the customers leave, but then Usagi gets in somehow? Was he hiding inside already for the reveal? Also, he would've missed the briefing but doesn't seem confused and instead already seems to know what's going on? Possibly just Jojo logic though but I wanted to mention it.

Weird Texting And Delay

Not much to this, could just be a funny gag about Usagi being sillycore but I wonder if he could've been texting Meryl Mei here? Maybe with an update on the mission? I have no idea what the delay could've been about, we do find out later he got hamburgers at the airport (hence the bag) so maybe it's hinting at that instead? Idk to be honest, just think it's noteworthy.

The Car Place

I forgot about this, but Usagi must be experienced at this sort of thing. How does he know about this criminal-safe car rental place? Was the texting maybe him getting this info from someone? It's also strange to me HE was in charge of getting the car - I doubt the other teens would've given him that responsibility so was that an order from Meryl Mei? That's super speculative though.

(Tiny thing since you can see it clearly in the panel above - is the weird logo on his shoulder meant to be model legs??? Like women's legs in underwear and high heels???? I have no idea if that's what it is and what it could mean but Meryl Mei is in the fashion industry *shrug*. My partner thinks they could be his stands' arms instead but we're not sure. I kinda doubt this point for the record, but it doesn't hurt to mention plus I'm interested in what others think the symbol is.)

Figuring Out The Cat Stand

Another thing which at least points to Usagi being more experienced than the others despite his age and demeanor - Usagi is the first to figure out that the string attack is a stand specifically. He also suspects the cats sooner than the others, Paco angrily insists the strings are some sort of security system (???????) but Usagi knows. It's not like the others don't know about stands, maybe Usagi has dealt with stand users on missions before? Also, goes without mentioning, but his 7D chess-level plan to defeat the cats later on is very impressive but maybe suspicious.

Quickly, other examples of Usagi's intelligence/possible experience are; going straight to cutting the painting in Rohan's house, scientific knowledge with the beakers and flasks, knows about birds in the local forest, also talks about the cat plan as an 'experiment' - could his scientific knowledge tie into being involved in the illegal drug business? They do compare Rohan's science set-up to drug making. Think 'Breaking Bad' essentially.

King Crimson Parallel

So, full credit for this final point goes to @/pandoragigi who pointed this out on a previous post I made.

They pretty much summarised it better then I ever could, this idea kinda blew my mind when they mentioned it. Sometimes it seems like Araki chooses song references randomly, but this could be a possibility. I don't have much to add besides the fact that 'Matte Kudasai' is a melancholic song which seems odd for Usagi, so maybe it has deeper meaning to his character.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily insisting with this theory that Meryl Mei or Usagi are gonna be villains. I think they could be mother and son and not be antagonists at all. I think it's unlikely Usagi is the traitor after already having a fake-out betrayal - but I do think Meryl Mei could be the traitor Rohan warned about. So if Meryl Mei is a villain then the possible parallel between Usagi and Trish could mean he remains loyal to the gang. Of course, it could also end up like Araki's initial plans for Fugo :( It's still too early to know where this story is going but I like to speculate and overthink things.

Conclusion

Ultimately, the next chapter could instantly disprove everything here. Araki has an... interesting track record with solving mysteries and reincorporating cool little details and I know theorising on this series can be pointless. I may in fact be Boo Boo the Fool for this making post :( But I'm having fun thinking about this and would personally be very excited if it came true! I have so many self-indulgent thoughts about angst possibilities and narrative parallels you could draw between Usagi+Meryl Mei and Jodio+Barbara Ann!!!! I think in a hypothetical evil!Usagi route, he could also be a great foil to Jodio. Also, what about the husband Meryl Mei is also rumoured to have? Will he appear and be relevant? But that type of speculating got things way too off-track so I cut them and might post them later. I feel like I could talk about the possible implications if this theory was true all day, but I'll cut it off here. All in all -

Thanks for reading :)

[aingeal98]

Long rant post but stepping outside my fandom bubble and seeing people call stephcass sisters is always so jarring like I could be wrong but I feel like most of the people saying that haven't actually read the comics they star in and just consume fanon content where the "batfamily" is a monolith. That or they're just throwing the generic homophobic dismissal at them.

(Disclaimer that this is not me saying everyone should ship stephcass and that they hate the characters if they don't. I know a lot of cool Steph and Cass fans who don't care for the romance between them, and that's fine. People are allowed have different opinions and readings on characters and this is not a personal attack on any individual, just a late night ramble on an annoying fandom trend I've noticed.)

No one should be forced to like a ship and I understand complaints that recently they're treated as a bland duo with one personality trait each instead of the complex characters they used to be, but at the same time... Based on canon storylines so far for the past 20 years or so I genuinely can't think of a better love interest for Cass. I can't think of anyone who moved her development along more as a character outside of her actual family. And for Steph, I understand if people like Timsteph, but the feeling I got reading Batgirl-2000 compared to Tim focused stories is that the writers and the narrative respected Steph more. Even after she died. Also its like. Ridiculously easy to read most of their storylines as romantically coded. (batgirl 2000 mostly accidentally, future state deliberately like they were literally canon in that au, batgirls deliberately while also insisting that they're just besties) And even if you don't want to see it that way, saying they're sisters when a) they're not. Like canonically, they are in no way related they're just best friends who hallucinate each other and die in each others arms. And b) Cass explicitly defined Stephanie as a relationship outside of her familial bonds to Bruce, Babs, Tim, etc is just... Idk I've been in too many fandoms that hated f/f ships it gives me the ick.

Harper comes second imo in terms of best Cass romances based on what we've actually seen in comics, and recently yeah stephcass is being marketed as a duo to try and justify the lack of care towards them individually. But it just frustrates me that a decent amount of the dismissal towards them as 'batcest' or 'sisters' comes from the same place as the general dc fan attitude towards them. Which is that it's not worth it to actually get to know these characters and their stories outside of their assigned place in the batfamily fanon. It's why so many fans like to lump Steph in as another one of Bruce's kids and ignore her actual family and the complex and fraught history she has with both them and Batman. (DC does this too sometimes, but imo fanon did it first back during the Dickbats era.)

Obviously a lot of it is general stigma towards female characters and especially female friends who always get hit with the "let gals be pals" trope, but idk. I guess I'm just tired of seeing people talk about stephcass when they don't even care about them as more than side characters. If you're going to say you hate the ship because they're better off as besties at least give me some actual interesting thoughts on their dynamic beyond "Cute sisters who never fight or cause drama! We love women supporting women platonically 💜💜"

[bluerosesburnblue]

1. I don't know if you're keeping up with FFVII Rebirth stuff, since I know you haven't played FFVII Remake (though I know you at least kept up with the general idea of what happened with FFVII Remake). But have you noticed how divided some of the fandom is with what's going on with it? Like, how some people think there are multiple timelines going on (which I definitely think is the case. And I think SE just confirmed that). Whereas some think there are only one.

2. And not even just with the timeline thing (though that's certainly part of it), people are just so adamant that everything they think about how FFVII Rebirth is going to go is absolutely right. And I'm just... worried that people are going to be wrong in some areas. And are building it up in their heads too much, and are going to be disappointed in the end. I feel like I learned my lesson some with Game of Thrones and KHIII, but this recent fandom trend (not just with FFVII oc) concerns me. 3. And I guess I'm wondering if you've also noticed that kind of thing in other fandoms, or feel the same way. I'm sure we could name other fandoms that are doing that (KH very much still is). And I also feel like FNAF definitely does that: like in "I've solved the story of FNAF (or this part of the story of it), and everyone else is wrong." And it feels like, at least in some ways, people are in danger of making their own stories of the stories they say they love, and not loving the real thing. 4. I'm hoping that the FFVII Rebirth thing will be SLIGHTLY better, now that SE has confirmed that it's multiple timelines. But a part of me is still kind of biting my lip, because it still feels like at least parts of the fandom are like, "FFVII Rebirth is going to open like X, and then do this thing, and then this is going to happen, and end like this." And I'm kind of like... why? ...Not that I want to put bad thoughts about FFVIIR out there now, when there's so many reasons to be hyped atm.

You know, funny enough, I was actually talking to a friend of mine yesterday about this exact same thing happening in the Pokemon fandom right now with regards to the ending of Pokemon Scarlet/Violet and how the fandom is completely split on what a certain device in the finale (not gonna spoil things since you did say you might be interested in the game) does. One side takes what the game says it is at face value, the other has a conspiracy theory that "fixes" certain plot holes that they're adamant is correct. And both arguments, to me, are kind of pointless since we already know that the upcoming second DLC this winter is going to cover it? They weren't even subtle about the fact that we're going to be getting more on it, with the DLC pack being called "The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero" (Area Zero being the location of the game's finale)

And you're right, it is a worrying trend across a lot of fandoms. There's this... I don't know, obsession, with the idea of being "the one who called it" amongst certain people. As someone who's been known to engage in theories myself, I don't think there's anything wrong with theorizing, necessarily, or with defending the merits of your arguments pre-release, but you also have to be open to being wrong and willing to look at your stuff before and after and realize that "being wrong" isn't always some sort of failing on your part (though some people are just wrong because their comprehension of established facts were wrong and that usually is their fault, that's only an issue if you stubbornly refuse to allow yourself to be wrong when presented with corrected information)

Like, you might remember some of my KHUx theorycrafting and the fact that I was half-right, half-wrong on some things. Like, I called the fact that Ephemer and Brain were going to split up with one going outside of the Datascape to try to save the others and one staying behind, and that the one who stayed behind would also get out of the Datascape after the others were gone. I was wrong about which was which. Looking back, I can look at my own reasoning and see where it was sound, and where I was just limited by the available information (IIRC I said all of this before Brain handed Master's Defender and the Book of Prophecies over to Ephemer, which would have certainly changed my reasoning). Not having all of the pieces because they hadn't been revealed yet isn't a failing on my part. A failing on my part would be seeing those pieces and how they contradict what I've come up with, and refusing to adjust my stance because I won't allow myself to be wrong

Being wrong isn't some horrible, life-ruining thing that a lot of people in fandoms make it out to be. More people should be open to being wrong, actually. Takes the fun out of things if you always know what's going to happen, and to me it also kind of belittles authors by assuming that you know their own work better than they do (which, again, sometimes warranted because some modern authors shun "predictability" and make nonsensical plots just to surprise *COUGH* GAME OF THRONES *COUGH*, but frequently not)

Actually, another example. I've mentioned that I'm a fan of the comic One Last God: Kubera. It's a really wonderful, intricately crafted narrative and part of that is due to the fact that the whole thing was written as a fully complete novel before the author decided to convert it to a comic. It isn't being written as it goes, but has been fully planned out from the very start of the comic. Now, up until one of the most recent updates, there were two big theories in the fandom that most people... just kind of assumed were probably going to be true. Without giving too much away, one of the theories was that a certain character who would frequently seem to have their motivations and what they know shift between scenes, was time-traveling (and we were sometimes seeing their present self, and sometimes their self from another time). Another theory was that two of the highest-level gods in the series (Primeval Gods) were actually split personalities of the same person. Now, the former theory had some merit to me, the second made no goddamned sense since we had seen the two interact with each other, they've always been depicted as separate, and there's at least one instance where one is in the room and gives the exact location of the other (which even people who believed the theory took as fact even though it being fact would contradict the theory?), but the people who believed that one were diehard about it. Couldn't go into a discussion about either character without it being brought up

Well, lo and behold, one of the latest updates from this past month revealed that, actually, there's a way for someone to impersonate a god and that's what's been happening, with this directly being the real answer for the first theory and having a strong implication to be the real answer behind the second theory. I'm loath to even call it a twist, since the mechanic behind it is just... something that we knew about from the very start of the series and just didn't realize the implications of until it was said outright. I sure as hell didn't think about it, but when I saw it my first thought was "oh, DUH." But I saw people genuinely upset about this reveal because it contradicted the theory, calling it "disappointing" because "it feels like the author thought about it at the last minute," and "the time travel theory made way more sense." When, no, it doesn't. The new update is literally just taking something we were told at the very start to its logical conclusion. And yet people were getting upset because they had completely sold themselves on the theory being the true answer and their belief in it being "right" to the point where they were blaming the author rather than their own guesswork. It's something I find infuriating

All this being a very long-winded way of saying that from my observation, there's an ever-growing intersection between fans who are entitled and fans who refuse to allow themselves to be wrong that's leading to an unfortunate trend of people desperately coming up with theories, then refusing to admit when they're wrong and counting their theories as "better" than the source material. And this, unfortunately, just makes fandoms a much more hostile place between people who actually do like the source material and are open to new experiences and these fans

And I do want to make it clear that there's a distinction between defending your theory and reasoning when you have confidence that you're correct, and outright refusing to accept contradictory information because you can't handle the idea of having a flaw. I would know, because I got accused of doing the latter constantly at my last job when I was doing the former. The difference is in being able to verify the evidence you're using to support your logic. Like, for fuck's sake, I'm not "being defensive" or "trying to get out of things" when I hand you the stats and say something doesn't look viable. Same stuff can apply to fan theories

Also, as if this wasn't long enough already, I just gotta add:

And it feels like, at least in some ways, people are in danger of making their own stories of the stories they say they love, and not loving the real thing.

I hate to say it, that's most of fandom culture these days and I hate it. Go into any given character tag on Tumblr and you'll see a million headcanons that directly contradict what's said in the source material at best and completely undermine the character's entire storyline at worst. You'd start to suspect that the people making these have no sense of reading comprehension and are only here for the aesthetics, but then scroll a bit and you'll see dozens of "redesigns" that "fix" the character by completely ignoring a ton of the cultural influences, small personality-defining hints in the look, or in-universe justifications for things. Want to find a fic of a certain character because you like their personality? How about a dozen where they're so wildly out of character that the only possible explanation is that the author just decided to write out an OC and slapped the character's name on because that's the kind of look they imagined their OC having, because there's no way they could've gotten that from the source material

There's a reason I started a Fandom Critical tag on here for this kind of stuff. It's so pervasive nowadays. Like, it kills any desire I once had to publish my own stuff because, well, fuck, no one's gonna care about what I actually have to say about my works, they'll just appropriate whatever little bits and pieces suit them

And I just genuinely don't get it. I don't get how we got to this point where people will go around praising a creator's works with one breath while showing no sign of understanding or even liking that work with the "fan" content they produce. And this is a separate, but related, issue to the theory stuff above because, like I said, it's possible to just guess wrong with theories and it's fine so long as you don't refuse to accept that you were wrong or get militant about it, but a lot of non-theory fanworks? Those just go beyond into sometimes ignorant, sometimes spiteful territory. You don't even want to see what my blacklist on here looks like just to try to get a handle on some of that stuff because at some point the lack of respect for the original works and their creators just really eats away at me

[bedlamsbard]

For the ask game, 1 and 24.

the character everyone gets wrong

I said Steve the last time I did this (and I do think he gets it the worst) and while Loki is the obvious runner-up, I find that the Thor films (+ A1, IW, Loki) are so inconsistent that tbh, that's more understandable. So -- Natasha. There's a huge tendency throughout the fandom to flatten Natasha out in ways that are wildly inconsistent with her actual portrayal in canon, some of which is spillover from comics, some of which is just taking her at face value, some of which is just being unwilling to pay attention to what's onscreen. Like, the number of times I see people being unwilling to acknowledge that Natasha is Clint's best friend? A lot! Or that Natasha is (minus five minutes in CACW) consistently on Steve's side, not even in a shippy way? Also a lot! Or -- this might be a more cosplay-specific one, but I've seen it in fic and edits and art as well, the idea that Natasha is very...I'm probably going to use the wrong word here, but that Natasha is very, very femme, in a "always wears bold makeup, paints her nails, red lip, has her tits out" kind of way. The only time we see Natasha do that kind of, mm, performative femininity is IM2 and the beginning of The Avengers when she's literally not being herself and I'd also make a strong argument for AoU here, though with AoU I do think she's deliberately presenting herself in that specific for PR purposes. (Besides, you know, Joss Whedon being terrible about her.) Obviously there is a certain amount that's there because this is a movie and everything is a little more exaggerated. Like, even though in all movies but one Natasha is in heels or wedges in her tactical gear it's at least partially because they have to get 5'3" ScarJo into the same frame as all their six-foot tall boys as well as being ~sexy; Natasha is probably not wearing 3-inch wedges into a fight, and we know that because none of her shoes in BW have a heel/wedge on them. (I also strongly suspect BW may be the only film where she's wearing a sports bra in the suits.) Some of it is probably spillover from comics, because comics Natasha is more femme fatale-ish than MCU Natasha.

(Obviously for cosplay purposes do whatever the hell you want, these are just trends I've noticed; I am in this community too, which is why I see it come up over and over again in the first place. This is the only time I've gone "wow, I do not have the tits for this," which is actually quite disconcerting if it's never come up as ~something to be self-conscious about before.)

Some of it is also fandom's general propensity to flatten female characters in general -- the team mom thing, the only one with the braincell thing, the femme fatale thing, etc. Like, yes, it's funny the first ten times, and then it's "...we're really not watching the same movies, huh?"

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

this is more like a "top five" topics than a single one SO in no particular order

was baby Loki kidnapped or rescued (child abandonment was and is a real thing, but in ancient/medieval cultures it is both (a) real and legal and (b) a common mythological trope, have you never heard of Oedipus)

Sokovia Accords and everything surrounding them (even canon regretted this one, which is kind of a shame because I would have liked to see the MCU treat it seriously after CACW -- only Ant-Man and the Wasp and Black Widow actually started to deal with it, and it got resolved offscreen years later in She-Hulk)

did the Asgardians deserve to be genocided (what the hell is wrong with you people, why have I been in real fandoms where this is a real question)

Loki/Sylvie (not my ship, I don't care, but hoo boy)

is Endgame good or bad (woof)

[hxhhasmysoul]

Sometimes I wonder how does mischaracterization happen within a fandom.

It seems like it always happens in any fandom. Especially towards characters who are more morally gray or nuanced characters being flatten to oversimplified characterization.

I wonder if it has to do with the general audience of a fandom. Such as if the fandom have more young fans within it and such. Or it’s just an increasing trend of people not having very good analytical abilities when it comes to media literacy.

it's probably a little bit of everything.

i mean reading comprehension is said to go down. i haven't looked up any research so idk if this is an actual confirmed trend. but when i tutored kids english i found out that teachers take reading comprehension for granted, both in my native tongue and in english. for whatever reason adults, including teachers who should know better, think that everyone can acquire reading comprehension through just being told to read at home and to do some true/false or single choice exercise with questions for the text. an exercise that is checked by asking 5 random people at school what the answers are and correcting them if they have it wrong without explaining why they had it wrong. and just moving on.

parents often also don't talk with children about issues, they don't point out manipulative tactics, maybe because they don't notice them themselves. i mean adults out here in social media are as bad as the younger people.

when it comes to mischaracterisation there's a lot of taking something at face value. like with gojou.

he says he cares about the youth. but throughout the manga you can clearly see that maybe he believes that he cares but his actions do not support that at all. or with yuuji who people just shove into the silly protag trope because he's not great at sciences but he actually doesn't struggle at school and he's very emotionally intelligent and a great problem solver.

in both cases it's for whatever reason not feeling the cognitive dissonance when parts of the text do not seem to add up and kinda defaulting towards the lazier option.

it might be also due to oversaturation with available stuff. people have noticed that fandom moves on very fast. people consume one thing after another instead of enjoying them. i purposefully don't engage with too many things because i just can't process them. and with some stuff i engage on a surface level but then i don't go into fandoms and spew my casual opinions.

and this is another problem that i've mentioned before. there's a feedback loop between creating an image of oneself on social media and spewing opinions on the next hot thing fast, but also mixing into it moral posturing. some people just need the media they enjoy and the characters they like to be morally pure and will twist themselves into rhetorical pretzels to argue that purity.

and since there's too much of everything people turn to others for commentary, influences on tiktok, youtube, twitter, reddit and here. learn their opinions and internalise them because often these people talk with conviction even if they are grifters and liars. and like i also like to listen to people talk about fandom stuff when i play the sims but when i write my opinions i try to go back to the text and not just repeat what others have said.

this is what most of the "gon's a monster" crowd is about. they repeat a cold take that seems smart because it often abuses academic language to give itself the air of depth and truth.

like it's a complex issue and these surely aren't all contributing factors.

but it is disheartening, especially when people will blatantly argue against the text when presented with it.

[rikeijo]

Today's translation #176

Animedia 4/2017, Otsuka Manabu's interview

Part 4.

In the anime "Kids on the Slope", that Mappa has worked on in the past, there was a scene of playing a piano, which was animated based on a live-action footage used as a reference - it was an amazing animation. Have you used that know-how in the production of Yuri!!!?

Ah, yes. We had experience in creating animation based on live-action footage, so we could do this quite well, but still, figure skating movements were difficult to animate.

After the big success of Yuri!!!, please tell us, what are Mappa's goals for the future.

In 2016, two of Mappa's shows, "Yuri!!! on ICE" and "In this Corner of the World", were very well-received, and this has changed a lot our reputation as an anime production studio, among the general public. But I personally think that it's important to stay focused and keep on working diligently on anime production, without getting too agitated. The goal for now is to build a solid foundation, so in the future we can continue to bring to this world lots of anime shows.

I have heard that you like Yurio a lot, but now that you have completed the work on the last episode, tell us once again what do you think about him?

To the last moment, Yurio's will to fight didn't change. To me, Yurio is the character who preserved these passionate elements of sports anime in Yuri!!!. I think that thanks to him the relationship between Yuuri and Victor, and individual characteristics of other characters really stand out well. I personally think, that one of the reasons why I, as a man, could enjoy watching Yuri!!! was thanks to Yurio.

And at last, your message for the fans of Yuri!!!

During the production we have received a lot of gifts from fans, as well as letters and Valentine's Day chocolates addressed to characters. As an anime production company, we hope we will be able to, in some way, show our gratitude for fans who support us.

[Notes: Please proceed with caution, because I'm talking about fandom politics again...

I've mentioned this before a bit, but this "Yurio is like sports anime protagonist should be" attitude is sooo well-visible in Yuri!!!'s marketing from around that time... Like Otsuka-san mentions here, *men* can watch Yurio and thanks to his presence even enjoy the anime...

(I'm no man, but I'd watch Yurio-centered second season no problem any time✨✨✨)

And it's not just this interview - in the same magazine, there is a short introduction of all characters, and katsudon pirozhki recipe, introduced as Yurio's grandpa special treat for him, and interviews with fans (two idol girls and three Russian girls). Guess who's their fave character?

Idol girl 1: Yurio, Idol girl 2: Yurio, Russian girl 1: Phichit and Yurio, Russian girl 2: Yurio, Russian girl 3: Yurio.

I can translate the interviews, if you want to experience how easy it is to notice that they really want everyone to: "okay, so let's all focus on Yurio now~".

This is my personal opinion, but reading all those interviews and about fandom dramas from that period I can't help but think that they were trying to change the direction of the show toward more sport-oriented story and erase the "it's an anime for fujos" reputation that YoI has... (because the reality is that a lot of anime fans won't touch an anime that has the reputation of being a "fujo-show").

Going further, some subsets of fujos that were following closely what was going on, started to hate on Yurio because of that change of marketing direction, because "Yurio is now trying to steal the role of protagonist from Yuuri-chan🤬"...

I'm absolutely not a Yurio-anti, or anything like that (not a big fan of fujos tho...😶‍🌫️), I'm just writing about some trends that are not very hard to notice, in as much neutral way as I can, because I think that it might have had some influence on what has happened with YoI, that is: I think there might have been some difference of opinion between the creators, the sponsors and fans, as to how YoI should be...]

[rescue-ram]

3, 26, 42 and 50 for the fic writer meme!

3) What are some tropes or details that you think are characteristic of your work?

My worst habit is getting a really big idea for a fic, writing part of it, then losing steam and not being able to finish. I will come back to you WIPs, I swear!! I also tend towards very introspective narrators, for better or for worse, and whenever I edit I have to constantly ask myself what is the character DOING to make sure I'm not relying too heavily on dialogue. I've also noticed I tend to be annoyingly meticulous and have difficulty eliding details. If a character picks something up they WILL put it back down, I do draw little diagrams to make sure everything's spatial positions stay the same, and I will find myself writing an extra thousand words to explain how a character got to where they are rather than skipping to the good part... which definitely contributes to my difficulties finishing WIPs 😅 As far as pairings and character relationships generally, I'm a sucker for complicated and ambiguous relationships, and pairs who have overcome some kind of inequality to be together. I'm frequently a fetid phone poster so I often notice annoying little typos after publishing, which makes me gnash my teeth. As far as tropes, I like "slow burn build up to big cathartic moment", and "character wrestling with humanity/sense of self", and a lil bit of outsider POV. I also have a tendency to focus on the characters hands in descriptions, and there are DEFINITELY a few phrases I catch myself reusing when I reread my fics, I should probably go through and make a call out post for myself at some point with those ram-isms 😅

26) Would you rather write a fic that had no dialogue or one that had only dialogue?

I know this would only further my bad habit, but definitely dialogue only.

42) Have you ever received a comment that stood out to you for any reason?

Love and light to all commenters everywhere 🥰 But I think the comment that most stood out to me when I received it, was I gave Rescue Bots (my beloved) a chance because of a specific Tumblr user who hyped it up, and then they left a very nice comment on Discretion. I was too depressed to respond at the time, but I was very bemused they found my fic and happy they liked it!

50) Using my free space here to muse on something I've noticed, in reading older fics recently and comparing them to newer fics... There is a lot less homophobia in fics nowadays. I mean this in a neutral way. I think it generally says good things about our culture and LGBT acceptance, and also is probably part of the trend of stronger taboos on controversy in many parts of fandom. But in reading older fics, it wasn't that the characters are haters or anything but homophobia is just an embedded assumption that has to be wrestled with. A lot of pagespace is given to characters working through their own internalized homophobia, wrestling with the closet or coming out, and facing varying levels of rejection from the rest of the cast. Nowadays, it seems like most fics are written as "Everything is canon except these characters have always been gay/bi", or in AUs where things like DADT never existed or gay marriage has always been legal, so there a lot less on page conflict over the characters' sexualities. Yay for people now being able to treat broad acceptance as unremarkable and a given nowadays, is the plusside!

I really started thinking about this the other day after reading two fics. One was a West Wing fic from the year of our Lord 2000, where Toby was both broadly supportive of a relationship between Josh and Sam... and also homophobic. Like, he loved them both and supported their relationship and was the best man at their commitment ceremony, AND was repeatedly vocally grossed out by PDA between them and actively got in between them in public out of fear they'd accidentally out themselves. This behavior was both accepted by the characters and totally uncommented on by the narrative. It was a pretty good fic, but that characterization struck me as being very of its time. In contrast, I was then reading a MASH fic from like last year, and it had Potter say something like "Love is love" and I was just immediately jarred out of the fic. Not in the sense that I think Potter would necessarily be hateful or something- I think he's both compassionate enough and pragmatic enough to decide what two consenting soldiers of similar ranks do in private is none of his business- but like, he's a Presbyterian Regular Army Colonel who was born in 1890-something, "Love is love" does not scan as natural or inevitable for the character to me. It felt like either a missed opportunity for a little character work- maybe Hawkeye is shocked by his easy reaction and they exchange a few lines on how he came to acceptance- or a missed opportunity for drama. And if the author just didn't want to get into it- completely valid- then writing Potter out of the scene would've preserved the suspension of belief better IMO. Reading those fics close together got me thinking about that broader pattern, which again I just find interesting... and also left me a little curious if the extremely frustrating and unfortunate resurgence in atmospheric/cultural homophobia in many places means that older pattern is going to reemerge in the psychosphere of fandom. I think my own fics tend more towards the "background homophobia" side of the force because of my own experiences. And I guess that's my "deep fandom thought" of the week.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

BPP, since you're talking about it, plus explain why so many K-pop fans that got into K-pop through BTS dislike them so much after??

**

Hi Anon,

I imagine it’s similar to how people become antis of specific members and could be down to a whole host of things. Based on what I’ve seen, it’s these three things:

1. Dashed expectations

2. A bad experience in the fandom

3. Social influence or bandwagoning

I’ve said before that k-pop offers up the veneer of perfection but is actually extremely messy, cut-throat, and filled with distinct Korean cultural markers that could seem to Western foreigners as odd at best and stupid/deplorable in the worst case. Since BTS has the widest and furthest global reach, many of the people who get into k-pop through BTS are complete k-pop noobs who have no understanding of the history of the genre/industry, much less BTS’s history within the wider context of k-pop, and once those people get past the honeymoon phase they get to see how the sausage is really made… and they hate it. Lol.

Basically, the perfect expectations they have of BTS aren’t met because duh, and while I think this happens for practically everyone and is actually a good and expected thing, for certain types of people it kickstarts a chain reaction where they remain in k-pop spaces, absorb all kinds of narratives but can’t let go of BTS in some way or other. Something I've noticed since being into k-pop for (too many) years is that nobody who has ever come into contact with anything related to BTS has ever been able to stop keeping up with them. Not one. I've said before that Jimin is the perfect microcosm of everything BTS is, so they're the og 'once you Jimin you can't Jimout'. The BTS equivalent isn't as pretty syntax-wise, but you get the idea. So like a toxic ex-boyfriend who knows the relationship isn’t working for him anymore and even if he has a new boy/girlfriend, he can’t seem to stop Googling his ex, keeping up with what they’re doing. Maybe they shared a pet before breaking up and he uses that as the excuse to keep up with whatever his ex is up to. This might seem like a dramatic comparison to make after all we're just discussing music and fans and it's not that deep, but k-pop is different. Anybody who has made a fan account is already in too deep there's no point acting coy about it. So yeah, the way some people respond to unmet expectations is anger and/or dislike directed at the subject that failed to meet those expectations.

Another reason is bad experiences within the fandom, and the places you're guaranteed to have bad experiences are shooter, shipper, and solo stan spaces. Like if you're exposed to any of these spaces for a long period of time, just the mention of the word 'ARMY' is likely enough to induce vomit. In my opinion. I've seen worse behaviour from other fandoms at significantly bigger scales and in other generations, but the sort that has found its way into this fandom is ugly and self-destructive. So far the majority of this fandom has kept these factions in check, but lol, everything trends towards entropy hence the byline of this blog.

The third reason is banwagonning. A lot of people are very easily influenced by what people around them think. It's not always a bad thing, but sometimes it works in favour of BTS and other times it accomplishes the opposite effect. As BTS has become so big the group has eclipsed k-pop as a whole, reception to BTS from the wider k-pop space has become increasingly antagonistic, given the competitive nature of the space. So while people might discover k-pop through BTS, what they’ll also discover over time is that an overwhelming amount of k-pop stans have millions of reasons to hate BTS. So for the sorts of people who got into BTS because they thought BTS is popular, once getting into k-pop and entering an environment where BTS and fans of BTS are hated, these sorts of people are more likely to be influenced into disliking BTS.

[feckin-zicons]

that's why i hate larries, i hate them with all my heart. besides being boring they are hypocrites 🙄

Hey nonnie, sorry its taken me so long to reply but if you’re following me you know I’ve been travelling lately and have been more scatterbrained than usual. Not that I’m ever not scatterbrained, but its been just a little crazier than usual!

Now I wouldn’t go as far to say I hate Larries. After all their delusions can be pretty funny sometimes!

Joking aside, I don’t hate Larries, I love Larries, I’m a Larry, so I really hesitate to tarry the whole group with the same brush. However I do strongly agree with you that there are those who are complete hypocrites. Nothing annoys more more than when Larries ™ treat the other boys, other celebrities, their friends and even family as one more side character to the Larry Show.

In particular when Larries ™ flood comment sections asking or in some cases, ordering people to confirm rumors/the couple being together. The absolute fucking disrespect. Not just because they’re flooding comment sections in videos streams, tweets, what have you, that sometimes have nothing to do with the couple in question, but because its presumptuous and rude as fuck to think they’re owed a coming out- just because they’re fans of the boys.

Stop it. Thats fucking ugly as hell.

While I have no doubt all the boys will one day be out (as referenced by their continued efforts in fighting the closet. I don’t get the sense the boys will just stop at being freed from their contractual obligations). It should and will be on their own terms. Provided they’re not forcibly outed some other way.

Coming out is a deeply personal experience and no one, no one ever, has the right to out someone else. I’ll never not be absolutely furious at the Larries ™ who posted about having ‘receipts’ that would out the boys. Which… tbh weren’t receipts at all but thats a whole other story. I’m also still angry at the reactions after Liams Attitude spread that wouldn’t have been as bad if not for the entitled fandom that peddled ridiculous claims beforehand about Liam confirming Larry to be real.

I mean… What the actual fuck. Setting aside the fandom experience of the time, and boy was it an experience. What right would Liam have confirming Louis and Harry’s relationship? I mean, get some perspective? It doesn’t help that a lot of fandom adults were the ones coming up with, and reblogging those theories and the younger fans ate it up. It would have made more sense for Louis and Harry to do it but idk maybe I’m still out of touch for thinking so. I mean, it felt like every other week someone was talking about Larry coming out. It was such a shit storm oh my god.

Biggest issue I still have with them is that the entitled behaviour hasn’t stopped. For some it seems like, Larry coming out is it for them. Like pack it up, goodbye, shows over, Louis and Harry are gay and in a relationship and everything is rainbows, we get to see cute pictures of them and everyone lives happily ever after.

Yeah, no. Coming out, for anyone, is just the beginning, can’t even begin to imagine what its like for them. They’re still going to need everyones support, and it irritates me that for some fans it seems so fucking conditional.

Time and time again, I’ve seen tweets, and posts, and videos, whatever, going on about Larry coming out and it reads like a fucking wattpad story. Not just that but its always on the assumption by the poster, on the off chance they consider the other 3/5ths of the band and Ziam being a possibility, that Larry will come out first?

What?

I’m sorry but, what?

Everything I’ve seen from the boys tells me they’re all in this together, they support each other and are working through the bullshit as a team. We have all seen the No Judgement music video yes? The merch, posts, double speak etc referencing each other, yes?

I mean, I suppose if you only look at Louis and Harry, like so many do, sure. Only Larry matters, everyone else is a side character in their life.

(Lemme just, scream for a second).

However, that kind of thinking leads them to the wrong conclusions. Like… assuming the SBB/RBB countdown was attributed to nothing, when it counted down to Liam finally being free of Sophia. In the years since, I’ve seen Larries ™ backtrack on claiming the bears had anything to do with the boys, that they weren’t behind it at all, or that they were just trolling the fandom.

You know, despite all the proof otherwise, and some really, really good posts breaking down clues about what the boys were trying to tell us. The moment something might not actually be about Louis and Harry its like all their thinking shuts off. Its frustrating. Really fucking frustrating.

Seriously, fans of the other boys as individulas, not just Ziams, have been talking about the stunts too and how they fit together. Its why we tend to be right, because we’re considering the entire group. They’re still a group. They’re not free until all of them are free.

Just for that Nialls coming out first. Lmao. I’ll call it now. Lets go Niall, whens the baby coming. We all wanna know. Its been years.

Imagine, imagine! Acting like coming out is some race to be won. The fucking audacity.

Go outside and touch fucking grass you absoulte ninny.

I get it, you want to be vindicated, you want to be rewarded for putting your faith in two celebrities being together.

Newsflash you dandelionfluff, its not a race, Louis and Harry coming out isn’t a fucking prize. Thats not what supporting a relationship looks like.

Its worse when someone admits they don’t know much about Ziam or the possibility of Niall being LGBT+, and claim they’re open to it, but then immediately tweet or reblog or sub tweet or tag comment a post or answer an ask from another Larry ™ talking about how Larries ™ are the most marginalized and persecuted group.

???

In what fucking world?

IN WHAT FUCKING WORLD?

If we wanna play that game, boohoo, the media claims Louis and Harry aren’t friends anymore because of crazy shippers. Meanwhile Zayn publicly isn’t friend with anyone and “left” the band… despite the Ziam fandom calling the stunt about either Louis or Zayn “leaving” and getting it down to the exact week (the second article coming out a week before about the Ziam kiss pretty much cemented it for Zayn leaving. Which did a lot to fan the flames of the already rabid fanbase when Ziam got two articles confirming a Ziam kiss over the years and Larry got nada. Like that actually means anything).

Not to mention Larries ™ using the hetties and management tactics against the other parts of the fandom to silence them.

Who cares what the media says anyway!  TPTB, 1DHQ, The Sun, The Mirror, Simon and his minions and their unpaid interns have used the media to split the fandom apart and it worked.

Who the fuck cares if the media calls the 1D stans delusional, you know the truth! The truth it out there and you’ve seen it! The truth is coming! Who gives a damn about what some two bit “journo” who failed out of their creative writing course writes? They get worse by the year. If it wasn’t so pathetic and hilarious I might actually feel embarrassed for them. They can’t even come up with new stories and have just taken to copying old articles, but you’re upset with them??? Give it a rest. Honestly.

The sense of disconnect, entitlement and victimhood of some Larries ™ is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh my god they’re Karens. I’m not trying to be insulting, but thats exactly who they remind me of.

I’m not going to say its a surprise to me that so many in the Ziam fandom are POC, LGBT+, and Neurodivergent and any combination of those, but I am going to say I’ve read a lot of Larry fics that just have Het sex made gay. Those in the Ziam fandom just tend to look at facts in a different way than Larries do due to their life experiences. A interfaith, interracial, relationship where one or both partners fall under the Bi umbrella (not saying Louis or Harry can’t be or aren’t Bi+ but rumors, and the way the fandom markets them, puts them firmly in the gay category) looks very, very different than gay or straight relationship. Both looking from outside and being in one. There’s just different dynamics at play that aren’t often realized or understood by the gays and hets.

Its not a bad thing. All relationships are different. The issue is that theres a lot of biphobia/racism/religious prejudice etc that arises from people being unwilling to understand the inherent differences.

Taking myself for example, I’m bi, like, bi as hell, and I don’t understand how gays and hets only like one gender. I just don’t. Can’t wrap my head around it. If someone asks me to choose one gender over the others to prefer I can’t. Its so stressful. My brain goes into panic mode and it feels like I’m being torn apart. My sense of identity is shaken- its a shit feeling. I just can’t lie to myself like that. If other people feel the same well, its no wonder bi+ have such high rates of depression and suicide. Its not about choosing who to like, there is no choice, I just feel attraction to everyone. Aces, I get. Its similar to being the opposite of what I feel, or not feeling an attraction to someone I’m not interested in. Easy. Gays and hets? I’m completely lost on.

Completely, and I know I’m not the only one who feels that way. But that doesn’t mean I’m not willing to try and understand where they’re coming from. Its alien to me, personally, but I’m not going to shut down the fact, that theres a fuck ton of people who only like one gender or try and make up reasons as to why they’re actually bi+

I digress, none of the boys fall neatly into the gay stereotypes, its just that parts of the Larry fandom have boxed Louis and Harry into certain roles to fit preconceived notions (likely do to them initially fitting in better with the white, sassy, somewhat effeminate twink thats been plastered all over Hollywood as their “LGBT+ representation” for years. Gag), they can understand better, and only look for proof to back up their theories but don’t look at things objectively.

They really need to get out more and make some LGBT+ friends that aren’t on the internet and talk to some gay elders. They need educating that’s not the often sanitized and insulting Hollywood version, that’s all I’m saying.

They made Louis and Harry more palatable for themselves and its… really gross.

I don’t know, I don’t get it.

Some Larries ™ turned the boys into their fandom and fanfiction stereotypes when they’re so much more than that. The Sony leaks should have been enough to dissuade the fandom, and prove that the brand sold to the broader audience is just that- a brand, and yet… Niall only talks about food and golf and Ireland and is only allowed to be straight or ace. If he exists at all its just to be Capt Niall. Liams slow and dumb and depending on the day he’s either Capt Liam or a horrific abusive homophobe. Zayns just The Worst, a unstable drug addict, and the boys hate each other, and they should have kicked him out of the band sooner because he never wanted to be part of them anyway, etc.

It drives me absolutely around the bend some days. They’re real people who don’t owe anyone anything, especially not coming out.

Yes, I think they will. But they’re not obligated to. They can change their minds, I’ll support them regardless of an “official” coming out or not.

Look, a part of me gets it. They wanna be right, they wanna prove the haters wrong, they want to be able to say I called it all along! The vindication will be sweet.

But like, it takes a quick look at someone other than Louis and Harry to realize theres something hinky going on with Liam, Zayn and Niall. Please listen to their fans who have spent just as much time as you have looking into Louis and Harry compiling together evidence.

It might take a weekend to watch the ILYSM and pterodactyl bros videos and a few more hours looking into some Niall blogs, which isn’t much compared to the hours I know they’ve spent looking into Larry. At least then they’ll have enough information to form an opinion on things.

I wonder, for some, what would happen if Larry didn’t come out, or didn’t come out first, or one of the other boys was outed against their will. Because… I don’t know. It seems like some would rather just be proven right at this point.

I get it. We’re tired. Its been eleven long years. But this isn’t a television show were everything can come to a head with a s3 or s4 cliff hanger and fixed in the series finale. Its real life, and they started off as boys trusting industry veterans who never had their best interests at heart.

Iduno. I just want some Larries ™ to take a step out of the echo chamber, realize life isn’t The Larry Show & co. And especially. ESPECIALLY, that every instance were someone, friends, family, co-works, industry peeps etc support the boys they are SUPPORTING THE BOYS, NOT THE FANDOM. They are not ��confirming Larry for the fans” they’re doing it to support the couple, not to cater to the fandom. Please stop confusing the two. There’s a huge fucking difference. Learn it.

[billsfangearring]

Early Wolfstar Fandom vs. Today

I'm going to use @chdarling's response to an ask earlier about Remus and Sirius both being "messy, troubled, imperfect characters" and the effect that would have on any sort of relationship between them as a jumping off point to talk about changing trends within the Wolfstar fandom over the past 22 years that I've noticed. I'm specifically going to focus on 1999 to 2005ish and then compare that era to today.

Please (respectfully) chime in if you disagree with anything or have something to add! I would love to learn more, especially from those who were active in the fandom at that time!

Disclaimers

These are just my observations as a longtime Wolfstar/Jily/Marauders fan who has recently spent some time mucking around in Wolfstar spaces from the aughts/noughties. I have not made any attempt to review Wolfstar fandom history in any sort of comprehensive or systematic way before spouting off like I know something in this post. Also, I wrote this on a whim after dinner, so please forgive any mistakes/sparse sourcing.

My Qualifications (?)

I started dipping my toe into HP fanfic spaces as a reader in 2005. My understanding of fandom has been shaped by the time I've spent on MuggleNet Fan Fiction, FFN, LiveJournal, AO3, Reddit, and Tumblr. If you've seen this post about fandom generations, I sort of straddle the "I was there Gandalf" and Citrus Cheesecake generations. I'm much too young to have participated in online fandom when the ship first sprang into being in 1999 with the publication of PoA. Most of what I know (or think I know) about early/mid-2000s fandom comes from later efforts to locate fics from that period (see above) and learn about fandom history.

State of the Early Fandom

Wolfstar was a Serious Adult Ship for Serious Adult Writers

Older fans of the Harry Potter series were naturally more drawn to the adult characters and their relationships than those of us who were reading the books as children. I at least heavily identified with Hermione as a child and grew to love Remus and Sirius more in my teens. Therefore, ships like Wolfstar that featured characters who were adults in the series attracted a much higher proportion of adult authors than ships like Harmony or Hinny did at the time. (Remember, we don't get our one glimpse of the teenage Marauders until HBP, which came out in 2005.)

A lot of people wrote Wolfstar as a messy relationship between adults with complicated pasts. That was the whole point for these authors—it's what drew them to the ship. Plenty of Wolfstar writers, such as busaikko, wrote both Remus/Sirius and Remus/Snape (or Sirius/Snape).

Marauders/MWPP-era Wolfstar was relatively less common at this point, and the long Marauders-era epics rarely included Wolfstar. There was a Marauders/Jily fandom and there was a Wolfstar/broader HP slash fandom, with limited crossover, though I should note that this split was the result of broader fandom trends than just the higher average age of Wolfstar authors.

I'm not super confident on this point, but I don't think the ship really took off among teens until it was popularized with a broader audience by The Shoebox Project (2004-2008), which is set in their Hogwarts years and also includes broader Marauders gen and Jily plots. That fic was able to pull people from both sides of the fandom interested in these characters.

Remus and Sirius's canon story was unfinished

You can clearly see the shifts between post-PoA, post-GoF, post-OotP, post-HBP, and post-DH fics featuring Wolfstar. Everyone wrote their take on what happened when Sirius went to "lie low at Lupin's" after GoF came out. OotP gave Wolfstar shippers a ton to work with between that year they lived in Grimmauld Place and Sirius's death, and those events were fresh and raw for authors. They're what writers had Opinions about and wanted to "fix" or explore. HBP, of course, threw a bit of a wrench in things by confirming Remadora was canon, but Wolfstar shippers (obviously) carried on by either disregarding Remadora entirely or writing Remus as bisexual (previously more of a Sirius thing).

I'll add here that before Remadora, a lot of readers thought Wolfstar was canon—the thought was that JKR couldn't have openly written a same-sex relationship into the biggest children's book series in the world so she'd limited herself to subtext and hints for the discerning reader to pick up on. Obviously, we now know this wasn't her intention, but it's a completely legitimate and easily understandable reading of the text. Wolfstar is the only queer Harry Potter ship with years of history of readers thinking it was intended to be canon. See the first meta post below for more!

Fic Trends Then vs. Now

A heavy ship lightens up

As a result of both of these factors, and probably others I haven't thought of, I'd say, overall, Wolfstar was portrayed in a much more dysfunctional, sometimes toxic way than the softer, sweeter Wolfstar relationship that's popular now. People wanted to explore Remus and Sirius's trauma and difficult past together without necessarily healing them or resolving their issues. Post-Hogwarts fics were more common, and there was a lot of enthusiasm about writing missing moments from the most recent book or speculating about what was in store for Remus and Sirius. Modern/non-magical AUs were a relatively niche genre given the focus on developments in canon; they've really skyrocketed in popularity in the past 10 years.

As someone who started out in Jily/Marauders gen spaces before discovering Wolfstar, I want to stress the massive tonal differences between the two communities during this time. Jily and Marauders gen was a fun romp, pretty clearly written by teens and young adults, that focused a lot on teen dramas and relationships. The older Wolfstar authors spent more of their time trying to tackle serious themes in a serious way. They liked to pepper in a lot of literary references, and the comment sections often turned into deep literary analyses that I personally found very intimidating and never participated in!

It's been interesting to watch the Jily/Marauders fandom shift in a slightly more serious and complicated direction as the Wolfstar fandom has moved in the opposite direction. This trend toward the middle has coincided with a greater blending of the two groups into a more integrated Wolfstar/Jily/Marauders community. It's wild to compare the proportion of long Marauders-era fics that feature Wolfstar alongside Jily now vs. back then.

Accessible writing wins out

I've noticed that the average fic length in the early years seemed to be a lot shorter than in recent years. One-shots used to be the dominant format—maybe they still are, but if so it's to a lesser degree. I’m not sure whether this is a Wolfstar- or HP-specific trend or whether it’s indicative of a broader shift in fanfic. If I had to guess, I'd say one of the drivers of the length differences is the shift from slash fics in particular mostly existing on sites that were set up in such a way that each chapter had to be a separate post (e.g. LiveJournal) to primarily being housed on AO3, where it’s easier to read and write multi-chaptered fics and really long chapters.

Style-wise, there's been shift toward a more straightforward writing style compared to the lyricism common in the early days. Again, this is on the macro level! There are still plenty of Wolfstar writers today who write in a more poetic style. I just think there seems to be a bit more directness with narrative and storytelling now than in the past. The differences in average author age and word count may have something to do with it, or perhaps this is just aligned with broader writing trends in the past 20 years. I'd love to hear from someone who actually took a literature course in college/university on this one!

Old Ship Meta Posts

These are sadly hard to track down these days, but if you're interested in learning more I highly recommend checking out some of these old-school ship manifestos and trope bingo cards!

The Case for R/S by elwing_alcyone (2003): An incredible textual analysis of PoA-OotP using direct quotes from the book to make the case for Wolfstar being canon. In addition to the character insights, read this for the snapshot of how much trust HP fans had in JKR's writing skills and in her care for her LGBTQ+ fans at that time. Oh, how she has fallen in our collective esteem...

Strange and Beautiful by blacksatinrose (2004): Another shipper's manifesto that focuses more on compatibility (and incompatibility) and potential than a close reading of the text. The author likes the ship precisely for their mismatch and the infinite number of stories that can be told depending on when and how you start their relationship.

Wolfstar circa 2005 by @theprogressofspring (2016): A bingo card based on popular tropes/elements in Wolfstar fics back in the day. (They also posted a screenshot of the earliest recorded use of the name "Wolfstar"—2001!) If you want to compare this with bingo cards covering more recent tropes, @bloodyhellharry made this one and @bookspark made this one five years ago.

Anyway, those are my personal observations about what Wolfstar looked like back in the day and how it compares to now! I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this topic, and whether I missed anything or got something wrong. Let me know what you think!

Edit: Now on AO3!