#there has been much discourse on this over the years and finally… a definitive answer you’re welcome

[gaybd1]

I don’t know how else to say this except Zuko is the big spoon BUT Sokka tops

[tonydaddingham]

LWA: I was reading your conversation with @saryasy, and thinking that perhaps many of the problems we see in the narrative are solved if we ask ourselves, "but why /would/ they have these conversations?" This is not even a matter of character flaws. There are just a number of things that either they have no reason to discuss or they have had no opportunity to discuss, because, in TV!canon, they /have not spent much time together/.

This fandom tends to read Crowley's dialogue assuming that it doesn't contain discrepancies, outright self-contradictions, or ironies--I'm not the first person to notice this by a long shot--resulting in bizarre questions to Gaiman about why, for example, his multiple stories about his Fall don't add up. Answers: a) not as evil as Heaven thinks, not as good as he's making himself out to be, because b) he's an unreliable narrator. Given that S2 makes it canon that, yes, Crowley fought in a legion and wasn't hiding innocently in a corner during the Great War, the arc of the universe isn't bending towards Aziraphale discovering in S3 that Crowley was some sweet boo-boo who got done dirty through no fault of his own, but instead towards Aziraphale discovering that Crowley did something bad enough (hardly epic levels of bad, but bad enough) to disturb his assumptions about Crowley's innate goodness. I would argue that that would be much more important for the final phase of Aziraphale's character arc than "Heaven was unjust to Crowley when he didn't do anything wrong." Aziraphale /already/ knows that Heaven behaves badly; the whole point of his decision to accept the Metatron's offer is that he and Crowley, whom he thinks is good through-and-through, could become the "right people" and remake it to behave well. But what if Crowley really did do something that Aziraphale couldn't reconcile with "goodness"? How would he reconceptualize their relationship going forward?

I go off on that tangent because, as you know from my previous asks, I don't think we are supposed to take Crowley's assertions about their joint past at face value. In S1, Crowley's "How long have we been friends? 6000 years!" can only be taken with a straight face if you believe that Crowley has an extraordinarily shallow definition of friendship. They see each other so intermittently that in 537 AD Aziraphale can't even remember Crowley's name change (even though he flubbed it and then corrected himself immediately in Rome), and their interactions into the nineteenth century, far from being consistently friendly, let alone romantic, are all over the place. Crowley's conversation opener at Golgotha, "come to gloat?", is no better than Aziraphale's "so this is all your demonic work!" later on, and Aziraphale is so cold at the beginning of 1862 that I still wonder if something happened not explained by 1827. Even in 1601, when they've become close enough that Aziraphale can bring out the puppy-dog eyes, it's clear from Crowley's dialogue that their meetings are clandestine--they both expected to hide in the crowd at the Globe--and it's left ambiguous how many of their trade-offs in the Arrangement were arranged in person or by letter. In Book!Canon, where there's comparatively little surveillance, they appear to have had more in the way of casual interaction, but it's telling that the way that Crowley phrases it to himself in free indirect discourse is "an enemy for six thousand years now, which made him a sort of friend" (39). Gaiman's rewrite for the script eliminates the qualifiers and the ambivalent sense of distance, but the historical episodes ironize TV!Crowley's confidence.

And again, Crowley's attempt at a marriage proposal in S2 runs aground on multiple self-contradictions. We have just watched him flub a "Leave it to me/I got this" for the second time, in a way that was much less comical than the first (when the Bentley blew up), and his hyperbolic rewrite of Aziraphale's "we go back a long time" once again projects a consistency to their "team" contradicted by the combination of S1 and S2 historical episodes. As I said above, they don't even manage to be consistently friendly until quite late in the game. Neither of them appears to have an emotional "ah-ha!" moment until the twentieth century (definitely 1941 in Aziraphale's case, arguably 1967 in Crowley's). They haven't been concealing their feelings for each other for "their existence," because the feelings as such appear to be recent. The fandom likes to pity Crowley because Aziraphale took so long to fall in love, but if you start to break down what has been canonically represented about their relationship, a) Crowley wasn't in love either and b) to circle back to my opening point, their actual, one-on-one contacts with each other are relatively infrequent until the birth of the Antichrist. (That lines up with Book!Canon.) Crowley reimagines their relationship in a way that erases the inconvenient gaps, moments of dissension and outright hostility, and so forth. In his narrative, it is not a relationship that he and Aziraphale have to /make/, but something that /always has been/; he invents a stable past that they only need to confirm, rather than an uncertain future that they need to create.

So, here's the thing: even when we /do/ see them together, it's not an occasion on which they can have a serious personal conversation about, say, the Fall (the Flood? the Crucifixion? 1793? either 1862 or 1967? S1 1941? even in 1601, Crowley packs off immediately after they swap Edinburgh for /Hamlet/), or they have entirely different conversations that aren't personal (1827). Only Job and S2 1941 approach more profound personal questions, and S2 1941 still involves a lot of tap-dancing. We know they see each other outside of canon (Aziraphale's response to the miracle chime in the sushi restaurant suggests that there wouldn't have been anything untoward about Crowley appearing), but they don't seem to do so frequently, let alone live out of each other's pockets. Have they even racked up the equivalent of a couple of human years in each other's company before the Antichrist arrives? No wonder they're still in limerence! Moreover, they are still not having the aforementioned important conversations because neither of them thinks they need to. Crowley's whole schtick in their coffeeshop conversation, for example, is that he knows Aziraphale perfectly, and he therefore completely whiffs the thing that they absolutely need to be talking about (Aziraphale using him as a substitute for reporting to Heaven). But since, despite Crowley's protestations to the contrary, their relationship as a developing connection is uncharted territory, they don't know what they don't know until they hit their Mr. Darcy/Lizzie Bennet moment at the end of S2.

LWA hello hi good day to you!!!✨ im not going to pretend that this response is in any way coherent because im now once again firmly ensconced in the deepest depths of GO brainrot where i belong (thanks be to rob wilkins, madman) but lets give it a shot -

(for anyone else, LWA is referring to this rb here)

im not going to repeat everything you've said on how their relationship has developed through time (because let's be honest, it would only be regurgitating what you've already beautifully laid out in this and other asks) but it's so incredibly on point - looking back through their interactions, it's still very much a dance around each other, but one where they're steadily stepping closer and closer towards each other. they do not even start off on the same page as acquaintances, let alone having immediately fallen in love. the pre-fall scene is blatantly one-sided, as is then the eden scene (in the reverse), and then they basically just flit around each other until 1793, hopping in and out of each other's orbit tentatively and inconsistently.

they take digs at each other, snap at each other, and butt heads over their respective points of view on the great plan. as you say, job is arguably the closest they get to any actual cohesion between the two of them, but a) even then, it's done with some air of reluctance and hesitancy, and b) it appears to have sufficiently unnerved them both that they then, once again, break apart for 2533 years until golgotha (as canon shows us, anyway). there are definitely elements of fascination and intrigue between them, i don't think that can be denied, but like i said before - they're barely acquaintances this early on in their journey, let alone romantic interests or even friends.

so yeah - in all of this, where is there even the inclination or opportunity to truly talk to each other about anything personally meaningful? there isn't. and besides that, they conflate knowing each other for millennia with actually knowing the other person. to my mind, they don't - they know what they think they know about the other, the image of them that they have built in their heads, and conveniently ignore or shrug off any instances where they do or say something that doesn't conform to that image. this is crux of final fifteen for me, in terms of why they split apart - not any ulterior, external motive, but because they've been confronted with the fact that they do not know who the other truly is.

and i think a lot of that is a mess of their own individual makings. looking at the fall specifically, and the trauma that crowley is perceived to have suffered as a result. on this, i have a few specific thoughts, because i still do not think aziraphale was ever in a position where he would question the fall where crowley is concerned:

aziraphale does not know how falling works. we see this in job; he genuinely thinks that losing his angelic status is as simple as being escorted into hell by a demon. it doesn't even appear to cross his mind that the act would be more violent or sudden, even if just figuratively. crowley describes to the audience whilst drunk (and therefore id wager is more truthful than not, albeit not the whole truth) that he dived bombed into a lake of sulphur, but the story he gives aziraphale is a complete contradiction of this:

he tells aziraphale in 1862 that he "sauntered vaguely downwards"... !!!!!!!!!!! that is, as far as i can recall in TV!canon, the only thing he reveals to aziraphale about his fall altogether! he hammers home to aziraphale, specifically in 2019, that he wouldnt lie to him, not at least now at this stage in their friendship (ie. he proves in job that he has lied multiple times, but this is at a point where he has no reason to trust aziraphale, plus - in admitting that he lied, he is in fact telling the truth...) so why would aziraphale question this? why would he ever consider that crowley may not be wholly honest? it isn't until the final fifteen, given crowley's vehemence about being restored, that aziraphale would even consider that there is something more personal going on

this is a bit of a stretch, but we know that aziraphale has seen crowley's wings - we know from the book that demon wings are described as not being altogether dissimilar from angel ones, and are in fact better groomed. visually, we see this in the show too; they are black, but are whole and complete. there are no physical indications of pain, torture, or pain in the aftermath of the fall (ie. eden, although there is the caveat to be duely acknowledged that there is an indeterminate amount of time between the two points in the narrative), as crowley in this respect does not appear to bear any physical or indeed metaphysical scars

and lastly, just on a general point. crowley is incredibly nonchalant about hell in general; even when threatened with literal Bad Things in 1941, he brushes it off as if it's nothing. aziraphale knows that hell is bad, and crowley doesn't negate this, but he also outwardly underestimates hell at multiple points, and never gives any* indication, in front of aziraphale, that he fears them. he also never suggests at any point that he feels anything towards heaven other than derision and condescension - he's fearful of gabriel in eps1 and 5, but not in a way that aziraphale would think has anything to do with the fall; only that gabriel is a wanker (true) and would smite him on sight. aziraphale is by accounts rather gullible (see: not stupid, but sees the best in people), and trusts a little too easily; possible noone more so than crowley.

and then yeah, consideration to be paid that it makes way more sense for there to be a reason for crowley's fall that simultaneously is empathetic because whatever he did was meant with the best of intentions/started off innocently, but then devolved to the point that he made a really objectively awful decision that, when aziraphale finds out, it rearranges everything he thought he knew (rip lucifer theory, you are sorely missed). in this respect, i would have loved to have known what happens between the two below points we see in ep6, that conversation would potentially have been a hoot:

but regardless of the potential character development this poses... it's just more interesting? as the audience?

*now, i lie like a rug here, because for me there is only one point where maybe crowley comes close to admitting anything about the fall and how it affected him, or where the topic is even entertained between the two of them; the bandstand.

i will freely admit that i find this particular bit of dialogue difficult to interpret, but let's have a go - to me, from crowley's perspective after aziraphale 'prays' for god's forgiveness over crowley's words, crowley remarks that being forgiven is forever lost to him as a result of his very nature. he's quick to clarify this last bit - that it's as simple as just being a demon, not because he feels that he is unforgivable. there's very little emotion to be gleaned from this; he says it as a statement of fact, with little to no implication of sadness or wistfulness.

from aziraphale's point of view, this is blatantly false - because whilst god herself may not be able to directly bestow forgiveness on crowley, in crowley's estimations, a) he was an angel once, and that has meaning and holds weight (which crowley immediately rejects as being so long ago that it essentially no longer counts), and b) even if god doesn't, won't, or can't forgive crowley... well, aziraphale can. aziraphale will always see crowley as worthy of forgiveness. he utterly disregards any suggestion or notion that crowley doesn't actually want forgiveness, and chooses instead perhaps to see this as crowley not only being deserving of it, because he is good "through-and-through", but also that he is able to give that forgiveness instead (and does just that in s1 ep4 and the final fifteen, even if that forgiveness is layered with a hearty helping of 'fuck you').

but in terms of how this relates to the fall, and whether aziraphale should have questioned it further? well, yeah, it probably is a point where aziraphale should have thought more critically about what crowley was saying; but crowley doesn't come across as necessarily regretting it. he very quickly dismisses, same as in job, any element of having once been an angel, that it could almost be inferred as a point of pride. aziraphale doesn't see it that way, obviously, and in any case - it is hardly an opportunity to suddenly have a deep conversation about crowley's further thoughts and feelings on the matter... and even if it were, could we be certain that crowley would even engage? is it even appropriate at this point to discuss it, both in the context of the plot (i mean, crowley does then immediately launch into resurrecting the suggestion that aziraphale kill the antichrist 💀), and also their arrangement?

look, my end thought process is that aziraphale has no reason to question crowley about the fall, and his reaction/'trauma' from it. not only are they not close enough emotionally for the overwhelming majority of their narrative, as LWA robustly highlights, but crowley literally lies to aziraphale about his experience/doesn't give any indication beyond nonchalance about the whole thing (to the point that, brass tacks, im not even fully convinced that what crowley solely as a character feels about his fall even is trauma - and isn't instead just pure anger, bitterness, and resentment) and there is arguably no good or appropriate time to address it.

to me, that's like saying that if i had a traumatic incident in my childhood, but i told my best friend that my childhood was idyllic and wonderful, and acted accordingly at all points where we interacted, my best friend should still psychically know that i suffered something terrible...? that, imo, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. there are definitely points where aziraphale should have picked up on issues in crowley's life (being homeless, fear around gabriel, loneliness), im not disputing that, but equally if you downplay your life as something uneventful and "just fine", the person that routinely takes your lies at your word because you assert that you do not - in fact - lie to them, and exclusively endeavours to see the best in you, is not necessarily going to think to challenge it... and tbh, they shouldn't be held accountable for that, either. a relationship is a two-way street, sure, and should be built of reciprocal communication, but crowley keeps blocking the way for aziraphale to even consider doing that.

also, because robyn (@teddybearbutchh) once again is so much smarter than me and i will absolutely not take credit for this:

let's move onto 1862 and get the speculation hat on again.

so, to my mind, the narrative only suggests that crowley and aziraphale were overheard in the graveyard in 1827, particularly the comments about crowley being nice, crowley gets sucked down into hell, and then spat back out again going into 1862. crowley is shaken, makes contact with aziraphale, acts suddenly paranoid about being overheard, and asks for holy water. and aziraphale is miffed upon immediate arrival after the celestial equivalent of being ghosted for 35 years, only to be asked for the very thing that would threaten crowley's existence, putting not only crowley but aziraphale at risk too, and being a huge infringement on the tentative friendship they've built by this point.

and i say friendship because in 1827, aziraphale remarks that the only reason that crowley invites him to the graveyard, whilst they both coincidentally happen to be in edinburgh, is to show him the gabriel statue that would amuse him (and crowley was right - aziraphale is immediately tickled by it) - all indicating on some level that since 1793, they have gotten closer. add to this that crowley brought chocolates to his shop opening in 1800, and i think we can firmly say that 1793 appears to have springboarded a Development in their relationship, something that has been in the works since formalising the arenagement in 1601.

but there are things that contradict this slightly - book!crowley sleeping through most of the 19th century, for instance (except a visit to the loo in 1832). so we can surmise that if the show canon follows this too, crowley was indeed not in hell for as long a time as we'd otherwise infer. but for him to act so paranoid, and scared, and all but beg aziraphale for The Weapon, makes me think that whilst it wasn't a long time, it was a recurring issue. was crowley repeatedly brought down into hell, to report in what he was up to, to ensure he was playing by the rules that we now know exist (the internal code)? they presumably do not know how 'deep' his affiliation with aziraphale runs, given the reaction to their fraternisation in 1941 (and evidence of it being worthy of being brought before the dark council), so to my mind it's moreso that crowley isn't being very demonic. this would support why he suddenly has such adverse reactions to aziraphale's compliments from 1941 onwards. (and says more about possible trauma at the hands of hell, than alternatively at the hands of heaven...)

but in terms of how this relates to aziraphale, and why he is so cold in 1862 - if we consider as i said above that they are indeed getting closer by this point, if crowley they hypothetically turned around to aziraphale at some point between 1827 and 1862 and told him to stay away (again... *deep breath* to protect aziraphale without telling fuck all as to why), possibly even saying something deliberately hurtful to push aziraphale away for good, then aziraphale's behaviour would absolutely make sense. and would give even deeper context to "fraternising?!" / "well, whatever you wish to call it."

another thing that i thought of; furfur's little handy field guide to angels that walk the earth:

now to the best of my knowledge, the illustration of aziraphale is a rework of gustave doré's "an angel appearing to balaam"... let's run with the notion that in the canon that that is the same image; ie. that aziraphale was in fact that angel. i can't find an exact date for the illustration, but id tentatively suggest maybe around the 1850s? 1860s? the book goes up to confirming aziraphale as a bookseller, so we know it's definitely as recent as 1800, in any case. and then this excerpt:

which im definitely not the first to have highlighted is suspiciously well spelt, compared to "AVVOID" literally just above it, and refers to crowley by his chosen name (compared to the scribble remarking that it's detestable that he even did). so, we can assume this probably was indeed crowley that wrote it. but did he write it because hell was scheming some kind of harm on aziraphale in the 1800s? and crowley kept away, rebuffed him, to keep them both safe? only made contact with him when he hit his breaking point, necessitating the holy water? definitely plausible.

right, and then to round off: ive debated internally as to what crowley's 'aha' moment is, as to me it's not hugely clear, but tbh... i think you've answered exactly this when talking about crowley's skewed perception of how long he and aziraphale have been friends. as you go on to say, there's no reason why crowley wouldn't think the same when it comes to loving aziraphale, either. so, i think it's potentially a combination of moments - 1941, 1967, bookshop fire, "to the world", and then all culminating in what nina says to him about "love lives" in ep5. it's not quite the logical, cut-and-dry 'aha' moment that aziraphale has in 1941, but after speaking to nina, i also, same as you, think crowley instead scans back through all of their time together (as limited as it is 💀), and instead thinks, "oh, ive loved him all this time.", when objectively that is not the case at all.

and that's even more awful when you consider what he actually says to aziraphale right at the beginning of the confession:

(paying heed that crowley's confession might have been slightly different had he spoken first... but im not sure it would have been at all.)

because... a lot of this? is not... strictly true, not imo anyway. but the fact that crowley believes it, thinks that they have always been this way, and this confession was intended to just be sealing the deal, the "marriage proposal", as you put it (which after last night's Revelations is now giving me heartburn, thanks LWA💕), on what he now considers to have always been the case, is troubling. and it suddenly makes aziraphale dumbfounded expression made so much more sense... because it doesnt make sense. to my mind, crowley doesn't actually have an 'aha' moment, but confuses what he feels for aziraphale now with what he thinks he's felt all along, and i do wonder how much aziraphale knew that.

[imaginespazzi]

Ignoring as instructed whatever has just come up around twitter….

Hello hello from ☕️ anon! First things first bestie, just wanna say I hope you have had a great end to the weekend and that alls well. And second, my compliments as always on your writing. Ch 5 was an exceptional read and today's drabble just put a big smile on our faces. (Thank you to the kiddos ha!)

Ok now onto business as usual with my promised follow up: Full transparency, in a very fortunate happenstance for my exhausted self, a post came up on another blog essentially short cut recapping separate discussions that I'd come across and was gonna share. You may have already come across them, bkristen, since they post lots about our dear Pazzi as well. I have copied below in quotes for all your readers :) As before, let me just say this is simply being shared for the fun of discourse. I'm not endorsing anything nor can I verify info of any anon's posts. Not trying to discredit any other peoples' comments or feelings on L/G either.

"Georgia and Liz got together in 2020, Liz thought it was serious Georgia didn’t and cheated on her hella. Liz took her back everytime but in 2023 (so last year) they finally committed fully which is why there was always podcasts and they were inseparable… until Georgia cheated again but with Kate Martin around late November early December. It caused a huge rift in the team (which is why the podcasts stopped and they wouldn’t be seen together for anything, even for press). Nobody on the team even posted Georgia for her bday… they are still mad lol. They’ve been amicable now but those first few months were ugly. Again I’m pretty sure her and Kendyl aren’t dating but idk I haven’t talked them in a bit ~ I go to VT and am very connected to the team + but I first heard this from one of their friends at another school"

Honestly in my mind the only real hole in all that is how Amoore and Martin would ever have gotten together, while granted there can be different definitions to cheating for people. Though it does now occur to me that VA Tech and Iowa did play and were around eachother in Nov for the Ally Tip Off game in Charlotte NC. And of course Martin had a breakup up around this time it seems and then there was all the social media speculation that raised eyebrows.

Added note: some other anon sent in a screenshot of recent insta (comments) where GA responds to someone who replied to Kendyl's comment on her post that they are cute together by referring to K as "big sis 💀", seemingly denying a relationship there? Of course Kenny does have other daughters if one were still to believe said rumors lol. Oh Georgia..

Sorry it took me a while to answer this bestie queen but I'm glad you're back <3

Okay so that other VT anon had me confused but I saw Georgia's comment so she's very much not dating Gabby lol. And honestly this just makes sense because what else would cause such a huge follow out. But man I feel pretty shit for Liz like I read it as platonic at the time but you could always tell Georgia meant the world to her and damn girlie got fucked over pretty bad huh.

I think Kate and Georgia were maybe just a bit of a fun fling but man if that's the timeline, then Liz was literally right there if was during the Ally Tip Off game like that's a whole other level of fucked but damn.

The "oh Georgia" at the end really took me omg 😭

[seven-pillows]

hi woow i have a lego ask if u feel like answering one: which lego sets do u have and what are ur faves if any? and what other sets do u want to get besides the pegasus? the unicorn is soo cuute btw!!

hi yay thank you for giving me an opportunity to yap 😈 putting all this below the cut because i couldn't help myself. here are all the sets i own in the order i got them + my thoughts on them

1) 10281 Bonsai Tree

this was given to me for my birthday last year! i think this set has become an instant classic, it's such a nice looking display piece. i put it on the windowsill in my staircase which was very silly because when it gets knocked over, those loose studs go EVERYWHERE 😭

2) 31140 3-in-1 Magical Unicorn

this is my favourite set ever i love it so much! i impulse bought it in a bookshop one day because it has a seahorse and is rainbow, two of my favourite things. i've definitely gotten my money's worth with how many times i've built and rebuilt the different models. plus, on Rebrickable, there are so many custom models people have made out of these pieces! i've turned it into a rhino, a boat and a helicopter from other people's instructions. love that website.

fun fact, an hour or two after i bought this (this was before i even really started getting into lego) they released the first teaser for the Animal Crossing lego sets. the way i manifested that?

3) 21340 Tales of the Space Age

this was a christmas gift! i think it's really pretty and i love how you can change the constellation in the third one. that being said, it just feels a bit silly to have a set be so 2D like this? this could have been an art print.

4) 77050 Nook's Cranny & Rosie's House

i got this one in March! when the AC sets were announced i vowed to get all of them no matter what. i have not done this because they are very expensive for what they are and i don't love them as much as i wanted to... the minifigs are perfect but i think the way that everything is on its own little squircle base looks a bit messy. that being said, as someone who grew up loving Animal Crossing but never had any merch because it was still pretty niche, my inner child was very happy building this set :) i really enjoy how you can change the layout of the furniture in the house and all the individual outdoor pieces.

4a/4b) 30662 Maple's Pumpkin Garden and 30635 Beach Cleanup

these two little sets came for free with the previous one! the Animal Crossing one is cute, kinda whatever though. it's pretty much just an add-on to the main sets. love Maple ❤️

the Friends one though? i held off on building it so i could have it to cheer me up some day i was feeling low. when i finally did build it i fell in love with it! it's just really colourful and cutesy. my first job was actually litter picking by the seaside so it's so bizarre and coincidental that i ended up with this. i've attached this set beside Rosie's house to try and incorporate it into my little Animal Crossing town. i guess Aliya is the player? Pascal looks different though 🧐

i will say though that this set does feel very greenwashy. i follow some sea glass collectors on instagram and they're always finding lego bricks washed up on the shore... i can't really talk because i'm out here buying their products but i do feel a bit guilty sometimes. but also life is short and i'm just trying to be happy. idk. surprise ethical discourse 🤩

Sets I want

i've ordered a few more Animal Crossing sets, namely Dodo Airlines and the Town Hall, because i want to have a little Animal Crossing town (and also just so i could get that damn pegasus 😑). i am also really looking into Lego Friends because i think they have some beautiful and interesting buildings in that theme, and the commitment to inclusion and representation just feels really nice. but yeah. stay tuned for more unwise financial decisions

[daystarsearcher]

Thanks for the tag @envexenveritas. Saved it for the weekend when I had a bit more time and brainspace:

1. How many works do you have on AO3?

88

2. What's your total AO3 word count?

481,422 (Damn, if I wrote this much on my original fic, I could have a second novel done by now)

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Currently, Doctor Who/Big Finish and Holby. In the past I've written for Star Trek: the Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space, and I went through an intense Law and Order: Criminal Intent period in college.

4. What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

The World Has No Place In Our Bed: Doctor Who, Kate/Osgood. You all love a fake marriage fic!

So Then This Happened: Doctor Who, Kate/Osgood PWP. There are things I'd change about the writing in this, but I guess you all like it!

Empty Spaces: Star Trek: the Next Generation, I looked at the whole Lal situation and decided to make it worse. People love being sad about Data, and who am I not to oblige?

Ghosts in the Machine: Doctor Who, TARDIS POV. One of my earliest fics and I still love writing her POV.

I Know My Sister Like I Know My Own Mind: Doctor Who, Kate/Osgood with Bonnie as the wingman. This was a fun one to write that I still have a soft spot for but kind of surprised to see it crack the top 5!

I do think it's very interesting how this differs when compared to comments. There's definitely a bias toward fluff for kudos (even the sad Data story ends on a hopeful note), while I get more comments on angst. (And I tend to get the BEST and most detailed comments on my absolutely unhinged stuff.)

5. Do you respond to comments?

Yes! But I try to give it at least a week before I respond. If I respond to one right away, then I'll feel guilty for not responding to others right away, and then it starts to feel like a responsibility rather than a fun interchange of ideas and gratitude, and I don't want it to feel like that! Anyway, that's more info than you needed about my OCD but that is why I take awhile to respond. I do adore comments and often reread them when I am feeling down.

6. What is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

Hmmm, I have been trending towards endings with a tinge of hope, so even though Two Birds in A Cage may be my darkest fic overall, I don't think it wins this. In my Osgood Must Suffer verse, Nor Yet Favor to Women of Skill ends in a really dark place with Osgood totally brainwashed, yet the sequel It's True the Girl They Speak of Died sees her reaching for recovery. Similarly, in the Modern U.N.I.T Infernoverse, The Pieces That Get Sacrificed ends on a dark note, but Chess sees the promise of working towards a better self.

I think we have to reach back to some of my earlier, more edgelordy work, like Snuggle for LO:CI, which is just an autopsy of the two main characters, or Goodbye to Ugly Words and Yesterday and Everyone You Knew and Were, which sees Odo losing every bit of his hard-fought individuality and identity. Oh, or Vermin in the Lower Zoo, my AU of an evil First Doctor, that's a pretty dark ending.

Oh, wait, no Plaything, my AU of Pyramids of Sutekh where I slowly strip away everything the Fourth Doctor loves. Oh wait, no, final answer: Careful the Wish You Make: Wishes Are Children, in which I do the same thing to Sarah Jane, but worse.

7. What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

Hmm, what makes an ending happier, the overall level of happiness or the contrast to the sadness or pain earlier in the story? I think this question is going for the former, so I'll say either Come to Me Softly, Come to Me Sweetly or The Completely True and Canon Story of Oswin Oswald Seduced Jo Grant, or Jo Seduced Her, or Something.

(Or if you want *waggles eyebrows* happy endings, maybe Respectful Discourse on Power Dynamics in the Workplace?)

8. Do you get hate on fics?

Not really! I feel like I've maybe got one or two mean comments on a fic on FF.Net over the years, but nothing memorable. Edit: oh, I remember! One person got sooooo mad at my characterization of Goren and Eames in Give and Take. Sorry, buddy, people are going to have different opinions about characters than you and write porn about it!

9. Do you write smut? If so, what kind?

Fuck yes I write smut. It's one of the great joys of my life. I write predominantly F/F these days, though I've written quite a bit of of F/M, and a sprinkling of threesomes. I've made liberal use of the BDSM tag, and I like things that play with power dynamics and trust.

10. Do you write crossovers? What’s the craziest one you’ve written?

A few! One of my first fics was a cracky crossover, The Good Ship [Name of Ship]. I also did a LO:CI/X-Files crossover so Eames and Scully could have sex. It's not my favorite genre, but I'll do it for humor and/or smut.

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Not to my knowledge!

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

Not that I'm aware of, but it would be a great honor!

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

Not really, but The Good Ship [Name of Ship] was written with the input of my best friend from high school, and she (with her fanfic author name) and some of her favorite characters do star in it. This is an important developmental stage for teen fic authors and I refuse to be embarrassed about it.

14. What’s your all time favourite ship?

Impossible to choose. But have this handy summation:

Picard/Crusher, Odo/Kira, The Doctor/Sarah Jane, Bernie Wolfe/Serena Campbell: these ships changed me as a person and filled my heart to overflowing with yearning, making me believe in love across time and space and alternate universes

Kate Stewart/Osgood: I want the older authoritative one to top the shy nerdy one. A lot.

15. What’s a WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will?

I am fully committed to eventually finishing every WIP. That said, it has been over a decade since I updated Loyalty's Price and that one has some intense worldbuilding that I would have to recall or rebuild from scratch, so uh, don't hold your breath for any updates soon.

16. What are your writing strengths?

I feel good about my ability to replicate character voice and to situate emotions in the body as physical sensations.

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

My god, the amount of times characters speak hesitantly, as if their words are testing a fragile sheet of ice, or touch each other carefully, as if the other is wet paper that might tear, or a dozen other metaphors that my brain has just decided to go to constantly. You absolutely see this with published authors all the time so I don't feel bad about it, though, just amused at my dramatic-ass self.

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language in fic?

Not something that's come up a lot for me, but I would treat it the same as using another language in original work--seek out a real human to proofread, offer something in exchange for their time.

19. First fandom you wrote for?

My first fic was a Star Trek: Nemesis fix-it fic written in a spiral notebook in high school.

20. Favourite fic you’ve written?

This changes all the time depending on what mood I'm in, but right now I quite like Chess.

Tagging @ktlsyrtis and @bonnissance if you're up for it!

[mydreamdoll]

Queer loneliness and the life of an indoor cat

It's a Sunday evening and I find myself, yet again, in the midst of the brutal heatwave that we always seem to get during the should-have-been-end-of-summer in Michigan. Summers here are uniquely terrible. As soon as the thermostat ticks above 80 degrees, all of that lake water that surrounds our little state like an idle moat completely evaporates into the air, making it so that breathing feels closer to drowning than an act of survival. So in order to combat the horribleness that is being alive in August, I'm spending my night the same way that i spend most of them these days- doing everything in my power to forget that summer is happening. I've got my curtains pulled shut, a black amber candle burning, and my dusty pink salt rock lamp working overtime to light an entire room. As I sip my obscenely dark cup of decaf coffee and listen, once again, to the recurring mantra of the Twin Peaks opening theme I can almost start to drown out the sound of the air conditioning blasting through the vent on the floor. Almost.

I do wonder, though; is living this way somehow a sin in the eyes of the twenty-something gods? Is this kind of fantastical isolation a valid lifestyle for a young, sober introvert? or is it an affront to the sacred gift that is youth? A lot of my life over the past year has been driven by these kinds of questions. When I'm old and dying, will I regret all my nights of nothingness?

Right now it seems like we're seeing a real rejection of gay bed-rotting and a return to the good ole degenerate clubbing and party drug-ingesting that our dear community used to be known for. On a philosophical level I love this; I think that we've long needed a divorce from this chronically online, out of touch, discourse based lifestyle that has poisoned so much of our collective spiritual well. On an emotional level, however, I feel incredibly bitter about it. There's a strong "cool kids table" factor to all of it and I am decidedly, and hopelessly, not a part of it. The unfortunate truth of the matter is that I don't have many trans sisters or gay peers in my life, nor are there any actual gay clubs in the city that I live (the one that did exist got completely taken over by straight people), so meeting them is a pretty difficult task. I try my best to put myself out there and experience new things but god this city makes it so hard, and my own personal introversion certainly does not help. Maybe it's my own fault, maybe it's the worlds, or maybe (probably) it's a little bit of both. Either way, that feeling that I'm missing out on something never really leaves me.

-

After more than 60 consecutive days of dreaming about him, I had really convinced myself that our double feature at the downtown movie theater could have been the night that something finally happened between us. And then on the ride there he told me that he'd started talking to an old fling from college again. I'm definitely missing out on something.

So I guess that I am now starting from scratch on finding some form of real romance in my life. I don't know if I even have the capacity to think of anybody else right now if I'm being honest, but I have to try. I've got to find some way to forget about my feelings for him.

I've still yet to hear an actual answer from anybody about how it is, exactly, that young transsexuals are meant to find love in today's world. I mean we've made all of this progress, have all of these evolved men who would be thrilled to date a doll, and yet we have nowhere to find each other. And even when we think we might have finally found the right guy, how do we know if it's real? Being rejected is one thing, but being rejected on account of them being to ashamed of their attraction to you to date you? I don't know if my fragile little heart could take it.

Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever be able to find a real love.

It often feels like I've been cast into this purgatorial state, where my only option is whether I'd like to yearn fruitlessly or to lie down. I almost always choose yearning. There's at least the warmth in my shoulders and the off tempo kicking in my chest that comes when he looks me in my eyes. But that feeling always ends up crashing down when I remember where all of this fantasizing gets me; which is approximately nowhere outside of abject loneliness. Yet somehow the hopelessness doesn't stop me from looking back up at him. I'd stare at him forever if I had it my way.

In a life as lonely as the one I've found myself in, I wonder- how does a girl find her way out of her fantasies and out into the sun? How does she embrace the harsh light of summer?

[thatonedemonnamedlucifer]

SHADOW REVIEWS - MARRY MY HUSBAND

Decided to do a little series on this blog titled "Shadow Reviews" where I review some random shit (tv shows, books, etc). I'll start off by reviewing a webtoon I've been i n v e s t e d in for quite some time now, that webtoon being Marry my Husband! I won't give away too much, but the review is not entirely spoiler free so tread lightly! Additionally, please don't start discourse! These are all my personal thoughts. (Brief TW for mentions of domestic violence, financial abuse and illness)

PLOT SUMMARIZED: We start the story off with our protagonist, Jiwon Kang, who is dying of cancer. Minhwan Park, her husband is not answering any of her texts or giving her money she needs for treatment. She eventually returns home and finds Minhwan cheating on her with her best friend, Sumin Jeong (I'm hoping I spelled that right). And also finds out that Minhwan has basically been spending all her money. Jiwon attempts to confront the two, but Minhwan ends up murdering her in cold blood. But then Jiwon is brought back to life... back in time ten years before her death, and during the year she married Minhwan. Jiwon decides to get her revenge on both Minhwan and Sumin by making them marry each other. In the process, she develops a friendship with two co-workers, Juran Yang and Huiyeon Yu, and eventually falls in love with her boss, Jihyeok Yu. I won't go any further than that because I don't wanna spoil the story too much. WHAT I LIKED:

While I don't normally read webtoons, let alone isekai stories and romance stories, this one somehow won me over because of the plot alone. I love that while Jiwon is mainly focused on avenging her own death, she also tries to help her own co-workers, especially Mrs. Yang (who btw has the CUTEST KID :DDD) Also. Huiyeon. That's all I have to say here. While I wish Jiye and her friends got a bigger role, I still love those characters. From them crashing Sumin's wedding to helping Jiwon expose Sumin and Minhwan as assholes, Jiye and the girls definitely won me over. Lastly, Sumin. No, not the character herself, but how she was portrayed in the story. While Minhwan was the shitty ex-husband, I think Sumin is definitely supposed to be the main villain of the story, and the perfect foil to Jiwon. I don't have much complains about how she was written. Oh yeah. That one scene where Minhwan tries to confront Jiwon in her apartment... only to be greeted by a mean looking guy who immediately takes a disliking to Minhwan. That was funny lmfao. WHAT I DIDN'T LIKE:

Speaking of, Minhwan's character was... kind of flat to be honest. There's not much to know about him besides the fact he's a cheater, abuser and a murderer. I do wish I learned more about him. Additionally, Mr. Lee, Jiye and her friends, and the other minor characters definitely deserved more appearances than they had. I am DEFINITELY not a fan of the "prettier without glasses" trope that showed up here to say the least. Tbh, as cute as they are together near the end, Jiwon and Mr.Yu's first interactions were... uncomfortable to say the least. Lastly, and this is mostly my personal preferences rather than an issue I have with the story itself but I need to say it anyway: Can the fake pregnancy trope just FUCKING DIE already.

OVERALL THOUGHTS:

It's not the greatest love story by any means, and it's not for everyone, but I would definitely recommend for folks to atleast read up to Episode 47 to say the least. This is definitely one of very few romance stories that I actually enjoyed even with some of it's issues. I'm especially looking forward to the side stories which I might review as well! FINAL RATING - 9.5/10.

[bogkeep]

i feel like i've had the "kids can handle dark topics in stories" conversation on three separate occasions in the past month, what's up with that??? my impression of children's/young teen literature is that it's always been SURPRISINGLY DARK and that it FUCKING SLAPS.

like yeah, my trump card is that i can answer almost every "but what about [HEAVY TOPIC]" with "Animorphs did that actually," which makes animorphs sound super edgy, but the thing is... it didn't feel edgy? it felt like a substantial adventure with drama, tension, goofs, stakes, and a vibrant cast of characters. it was one of the first book series i ever read, so there was nothing that tipped me off that This Series Is So Dark And Gruesome - and i think it's because it wasn't, comparatively. one of my other early reads was Deltora Quest, and like, what school library didn't have Goosebumps? i never got my hands on warrior cats, but like, that series is just one installation in a WHOLE GENRE - the silverwing trilogy, wings of fire, guardians of ga'hoole... groups of animals dealing with war and exile and battle and grief and ridiculously tragic backstories and whatever was going on in these series, ripe for self-insert characters and scenarios for play pretend during lunch break. even the HTTYD books, which are completely different from the movies - they look childish, especially with the illustrated charcoal drawings - hiccup gets captured as a slave at some point, and there's a dragon rebellion that seeks to eradicate all of humanity. it has a lot of goofy moments and some incredibly over-the-top villains, but it doesn't flinch from how gruesome it gets, either.

i think kids genuinely love this stuff!!! not all kids, sure, but i definitely did!!! like!!! have you SEEN the edgy OCs kids and teens will make? the finely crafted horrific backstories? you know how small kids have traditionally played with barbies, right, with beheadings and torture and shakespearean plots? how a lot of kids and teens sought out creepypastas???

i absolutely think it's much easier for BOOKS to go into dark topics than visual media, and i think that's why a lot of people don't realize how much is happening below the surface. we live in a post gravity falls world now, so cartoons for teens are finally allowed to be a little more twisted and "wow i can't believe they went there," but ALSO... from what i can remember from being a Child, the most scarring and horrifying moments in stories for kids were not the existential concept of "oh no you're ten years old and bad guys want to kill you!" but stuff like, the groke from the moomins cartoon, old puppet shows, moments that were viscerally horrifying without being gory in any way...

maybe you don't understand all the Complexities of Heavy Topics when you're nine. but some things will stick with you, and as you grow older and gain more context and knowledge about the world around you, i think those moments can become very valuable. i haven't read animorphs for almost two decades and so much of it has stayed with me. maybe i saw princess mononoke a bit earlier than i "should have," but to this day it's still one of my favourite movies of all time, and my understanding of it grows every time i rewatch it. i don't think it's possible for every story to handle every topic perfectly or even well, but it might still be worthwhile to have engaged with it. i mean, that's the Discourse, isn't it, stories tell you stuff and we can't control what other people take from it.

anyway yeah kids crave blood and carnage and we should give it to them sometimes

[absolutebl]

I've been a huge BL fan (series, fanfics, etc) for about a year but I'm still very new to this BL world and today I saw a post on soc media from some Trans activists with a caption "straight girls who fetishize gay guys are just as creepy as straight guys who fetishize lesbians". And then there were lots of comments like 'fujoshis, this is for you' or 'every yaoi fan girl ever' or 'every fandom ever' (I do know the meaning of yaoi and fujoshi). What do you think about that statement? Is it really that bad that we girls/women fangirl over fictional and sometimes real life gay couples? During my entire life I never realized that I'd be so much into BL (that's probably because I never really came across a lot of gay series/movies/stories/fanfics before when I was younger, only recently) and now ever since I became a huge fan I have seen that there are literally thousands of women who love it too. So is it really fetishizing?

Thank you

And btw I love your blog so much, one of my absolute favourite 💜💜

Aw hi hon!

I actually kinda tackle this, tangentially, in this post:

Will BL Get More Honestly Queer?

It's a pro normalization stance with pro straight allies feels.

So is straight women loving BL really fetishization?

From a kink perspective, no it's not fetishization. As a kinkster I have to say I don't like that term being coopted and used as a slur, either. That's just non-kinksters using kink as the lowest order punching bag for them to abuse (puns intended).

Technically for kinksters, 

a fetish is a sexual act or element that is REQUIRED by the person who has said fetish to get off.

Oxford says:

a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc.

Oh but there's that word we all love "abnormal." 

Sigh.

Still, by either definition, my answer to "So is it really fetishizing?" is... no it's not. Because that's not what fetish means.

But this is how I feel about it as a queer kinkster and others are entitled to their own opinions. (So long as they don't present said opinion as fact, I suppose.)

Like everything else on Twitter, (and that smacks of a Twit-izm, so you didn't say twitter but I'm assuming) reduction has oversimplified the statement out of all inherent meaningful discourse or quality of thought.

Frankly i find outrage culture completely exhausting. I can't barely work up the enthusiasm to brush my damn teeth, getting upset up over pop culture that gives people pleasure, especially pleasing women who have precious little joy in their lives, just seems sad to me.

On the flip side:

It is interesting to consider, as a straight woman (or a lesbian, or a person not really attracted to men, or as a person not attracted to sex/relationships), why you are drawn to BL? Why you find this kind of narrative attractive, sexy, warming, comforting and NOT the straight ones? I do think self reflection can be quite interesting. Especially around desire.

But then again, as a queer kinkster, the nature of my own desires has resulted in a certain amount of self reflection my whole damn life.

Okay now... weird comparison but here we go. 

Wouldn’t publicly admitting to liking BL be a little like a straight woman experiencing a kind of coming out? I mean if admitting to loving BL gets you bullied, criticized, and abused? Like hello, welcome to the party. Guess who has a lifetime of knowledge about admitting to liking and/or being sexually turned on by a thing and then shamed for it, the queers and the kinksters! 

Finally, I think the original 1:1 has an issue with conflation. (Having just played about with conflation myself, my bad.) 

Still, the men/lesbian = women/BL cases cannot be compared because the power held by (and invested in) male sexuality, gaze, and straight sexual desire and its ability to objectify women (and companion impact on social power in society) is materially different from female and feminine desires and its social power.

As a result the original statement is, by default, pitting feminist issues against queer activism. I don't like anything that puts a fissure between queer and feminist, because I believe queer/trans rights are feminist issues. (I've talked about this before but I can't find that post and I'm tired...) 

Anydinglebury, read that linked post above, it's a lot more coherent than I am currently being.

Suffice it to say that what motivates me is cohesion and support, sharing affection and delight, as well as education and understanding - not being divisive or encouraging outrage or shock or us/them mentalities.

But that's what drove me to Tumblr instead of other platforms. Sure this is the original hellhole, but that hellhole is well lubed (sorry not sorry) and it's also a greyspace that seems to capable of containing multitudes (still not sorry) in a way other hellscapes can't (or won’t).

Besides, the people that do not like me or disagree with me here, well they just block my dumb arse. So much easier that way.

(source) 

[veliseraptor]

☕ the loki series is... kinda trash and the characterization is very off :/

the loki series which I still have not watched the finale of for reasons that have nothing to do with my enjoyment or lack thereof but initially due to monetizing my hobbies and now I just have a weird block on it? that one?

but hey I feel like I've got enough of an informed opinion to respond to this at least somewhat, though, like, grain of salt I guess knowing only vague spoilers that I've gathered about the finale over the months since it has aired.

I went a little back and forth on answering this one at all, because if there is something that definitely did not help my drifting away from mcu fandom (though there are a lot of reasons), it would be seeing the fringes of the loki series discourse and going "oh no, don't want that." so dipping my toes in it feels...risky! but hopefully things have calmed down a little and I'm not going to get my head bitten off by anyone.

particularly because my answer is I think going to sound a little milquetoast. I definitely disagree with the strength of language in this ask (I don't think it was trash). I wouldn't say I loved it; I think it ranks probably third in my favorite of the mcu tv series (and well about falcon and winter soldier which I actively disliked). but I was always going to have quibbles about the series - spending eight-ish years in fandom writing hundreds of thousands of words about a character you get a pretty firm idea of what you want and what you feel about them - but I knew that going in, and, frankly, have always known that about the mcu. it never gave me what I wanted! what I got, generally speaking, was enough of what I wanted to work with it.

so I think that's a way in which I maybe approached this a little differently than some people - namely, going "yeah so this isn't going to be the Loki series I would've made probably but hey I can probably get some good stuff out of it."

but this isn't really getting at the heart of your ask, which I feel like is mainly about characterization - of Loki, I assume, since he was the established character in the show. and in answer to that I guess I have two things that I keep in mind that make me...more forgiving, perhaps, than others are inclined to be. those are:

1. Consistency of characterization has never been something the MCU is great at, and particularly with Loki. Because of story needs and director styles and many other factors, in general MCU characters tend to wobble from movie to movie - within certain confines, but wobble nonetheless. This is actually very familiar from comics, where a character can have wildly different characterization depending on what version you're reading and people sort of end up with choose-your-own-adventure characterization depending on what their preferences are.

When it comes to Loki, Loki from Thor to Avengers to Dark World to Ragnarok to Infinity War to the Loki series is, I would argue, a little bit different in every iteration! This works in part because he's a very flexible character, in many ways - there are a lot of ways you can read and approach him. Very fitting, that, for the kind of character he is: trickster, changeable, adaptable, in constant motion. Some characters tolerate that characterization wobble more than others and I think Loki is one of them.

And some of those ways I personally like more or less, but my feeling has always been that I can see Loki in all of them, I can see where the read is coming from, and while I personally may - as I do with comics - choose to throw out bits and pieces and keep what I like - I don't think there's, like, One True Clear Characterization across the MCU. A few points that hold true, but not really a defined, unchanging characterization. And I think the Loki series, as much as any other installment in the MCU featuring him, mostly holds true to those points, while choosing to emphasize or focus on some different ones.

2. To a certain extent I think the Loki show was hamstrung by its format - by which I mean the six episode season. It means that when you're trying to develop character and plot, you end up having to speedrun it a little. And sometimes you can make that work, but it's hard, and it requires a very deft hand, and if you're someone, like me, who prefers a slower burn for her character work, a show that is trying to do the amount of character work the Loki series was in the confines of six episodes...is going to have a rough time.

Because it is trying to do...a lot of character work. It's taking him from the height of his villainy into a more heroic role, while also having to tell a coherent story. I think you can see some of this speedrunning in the first episode with Loki watching the rest of his life as it goes in canon - in that case it was very effective, but it is a very quick and dirty way of justifying a character changing course by breaking them down very fast and very hard.

I think to a certain extent the character work faltered from the first episode, where it was strongest, later in the series to where it felt more like more focus was on the plot. Fair! I don't actually expect shows to dedicate all their time to character development. That might be what I'm kind of here for but I recognize that's sort of a me problem. But I don't think the characterization necessarily faltered - I think it just felt like, to me, it was going too fast, and to me, it didn't tonally match what I wanted.

but not tonally matching what I want isn't necessarily wrong; it's just not what I want.

and honestly the things that I liked about the show I felt like it did well - particularly how it was working with themes of choice and agency and change, and the way Loki interacts with concepts of villainy/heroism, that are very core to some of my favorite Loki stories (someone on the creative team was reading Journey Into Mystery and Agent of Asgard).

Ultimately though I think what it comes down to is that while I could nitpick the things I don't like about the series, and enumerate what I think are its flaws, I just don't really care to. because as has been the case with almost the entire MCU, it comes down to "did I like more than I didn't" and the answer here, unless the finale dramatically changes my mind, is "yes." In which case, this being the MCU, I could spend all day picking at what I didn't like, but ultimately I just find that kind of tiring and depressing.

also like. I'm sorry or whatever but I love Sylvie, she's a beautiful mess of a woman and I'm into that.

anyway wow I wrote a fucking essay, sincerest apologies

[makeste]

BnHA Chapter 309: Gotta Go My Own Way

Previously on BnHA: Muscular was all “well if it isn’t the protagonist on his solo journey of self-discovery, for some reason I’m unironically glad I get to fight you!” Deku was all “hey Muscular before I finish kicking your ass would you please take a moment to answer these two survey questions? Question one, do you regret being a total piece of shit? And question two, if you could do anything at all in the world other than being a total piece of shit, would you?” Muscular was all, “pfft, no and no.” Deku was all, “thanks buddy, your feedback helps make me a better hero, here’s a coupon for fifteen percent off your next ass-whooping.” Then he whooped his ass.

Today on BnHA: Deku is all “what up All Might can you believe you’ve been here this entire time?” All Might is all “I sure can since that’s literally my catch phrase, anyway how are your magic movie 1 gauntlets holding up?” Deku is all “they’re holding up fine, how are Hawks, Endeavor, and Best Jeanist doing?” Hawks, Endeavor, and Best Jeanist are all “we, your fellow co-conspirators, are also doing fine, thanks for asking!” Flashback!Deku is all “anyway so I secretly have All Might’s quirk and the most dangerous people in the world are after me, so sorry mom but that’s why I’m dropping out of school.” Inko is all “I CAN’T ACCEPT THAT” while totally accepting it. All Might is all “I GUESS WE’LL JUST HAVE TO GO ALONG WITH IT SINCE I DON’T FEEL LIKE TRYING TO STOP HIM.” Hawks, Jeanist, and Endeavor, as previously mentioned, are all “yeah that sounds like a good plan”, and Gran is all “see ya kid, don’t do anything I wouldn’t do.” So basically everyone in the entire world has suddenly teamed up with Deku to defeat AFO, except for the one person whose entire foreshadowed endgame is “teaming up with Deku to defeat AFO.” O Kacchan where art thou.

dear tumblr image limit: okay look. you don’t like me, and I don’t like you. but just as an experiment, I’m gonna try writing this recap with as few images as possible and we’ll see how it goes

(ETA: spoilers for how it went: it didn’t, lol.)

oh my god WHY ARE WE OPENING WITH MORE KETSUBUTSU ACADEMY KIDS.ffs we’d better at least finally get some Ms. Joke content out of this

(ETA: seriously who do I have to bribe.)

so these two KB kids who no one cares about are watching Deku leap away from the scene after dispatching Muscular. but more importantly wtf is this chapter title omg. “I can’t stay being a child” so that’s how it is huh. we’re gonna have feels and we’re going to like them. well then

oh my god he’s hauling Muscular away dhfksklfkh okay this is gonna have to be our first image because I can’t fucking help myself. look at this

just. Deku is so tiny and he’s carting away this massive unconscious lump of a man like it’s nothing why is this so funny to me. it’s like when people buy furniture, and they don’t want to pay extra for delivery and so they’re like, “I can definitely fit this king-sized mattress in the back of my compact sedan if I fold the fucking seat down, idk.” and they refuse to be talked out of it, and the next thing you know you’re watching them drive home with their open trunk door haphazardly tied down with bungee cords, and somehow it fucking works. because it turns out the compact sedan has super strength

anyway for SOME REASON now Horikoshi is all “have fun with that Deku, meanwhile we now return you to your regularly scheduled SHINDOU CONTENT” whyyyyyy

look at this. we’re really using up a whole fucking entire page on everyone arguing over who gets the honor of carrying Shindou

love how the civilians are all, “shit lol is this actually our fault?? quick, how do we play this off all casual like we were the reasonable parties here all along”

turns out all it took to finally get them to listen was making them watch while a kid got his insides ground into a pulp because of their stupidity!! what a heartwarming conclusion to this little standoff

anyways THANK GOD we’re cutting back to Deku now!! well actually we’re cutting back to Muscular who is being dropped off at the police precinct, good bye and good riddance lol

so Deku’s leaving him there and bounding away and okjdlSKFJLKJDSL OH MY GOD

no fucking way. no fucking way this little jaunt is All Might-sanctioned and approved. are you serious?? then who else is in on this?? what the hell is going on

so All Might is just WAITING FOR HIM IN AN ALLEY FFF WHO ARE YOU, JIM GORDON. or would Alfred be a better analogy here?? but like, Alfred if he ditched the suit for a moto jacket and shades

this new ensemble of All Might’s may or may not severely impact my ability to take this forthcoming conversation seriously; please stand by

also, quite the spectacular landing there, Deku. seriously lol what was that

“HOW ARE YOUR LIMBS” “THANKS TO YOU THEY’RE COMPLETELY FINE” I’M SORRY WHAT

LOL WHAT. “THANKS TO THE POWER OF THESE MAGIC GLOVES” OH I SEE THAT EXPLAINS IT

are these the same gauntlets from the first movie, then? well that’s all well and good, except that now there’s going to be more Deku Discourse than fucking ever lol. so if it’s all the same to you guys, I’m gonna once again go ahead and declare this week’s post a discourse-free zone, at least when it comes to the specific discourse of Deku’s merits as a MC, and the impact that him kicking ass and having working arms has on said merits. this has been something of a low mental energy week for me, so I’d rather reserve the energy I do have for more fun topics, such as All Might’s bitchin’ leather jacket

anyway so All Might’s saying that the gauntlets will help reinforce Deku’s arms, but they can’t withstand OFA at 100%. so basically it’s a support item designed to maintain the status quo lol. we’re basically in the same situation we were before, arm-capability-wise

homg All Might’s getting a call. time to see who else is in on Operation: Deku Alone?? or not so alone for that matter

omg

HI HAWKS, WHERE ARE YOUR WINGS

(ETA: seriously are they really gone for good?? why would he even be back on active duty then?? does he have his own American ex-boyfriend who can hook him up with exclusive support items?? dammit Horikoshi we want answers.)

looks like Jeanist and Endeavor are teaming up as well, just like they said they would. I would gladly follow this trio around all day long tbh

is this the same giant villain from the very first chapter??

looks like it to me, and it would tie in with that callback from the end of chapter 306. we all thought that was Muscular, but maybe it was this guy, and Deku left these three to deal with him while he ran off to take Muscular down

oh my god now Deku is running off again just like that

kids these days

ffffff I have not had nearly enough sleep to follow along with whatever tf Hawks is talking about here sob

like, is he trying to say that All Might is keeping Deku’s whereabouts unknown to anyone except for him?? in order to keep him safe?? but Hawks is pointing out that that’s a bad strategy and probably won’t do shit against AFO and it’s better if he lets Deku work with the rest of them?

(ETA: so @hanashimas​’ translation makes a lot more sense -- it’s not All Might who’s being overprotective, but Deku. in other words he’s trying not to drag All Might into his battles. and in addition Hawks is saying that their strategy is to take the offensive and go after AFO themselves rather than wait for him to come to them. which I’m not too sure about myself, but that’s another topic for another day.)

btw I can’t help thinking how much better this entire conversation would be if All Might was still wearing his sunglasses. put them back on my dude. it’s not too late. embrace your inner badass

DKLJSLDKFJL FLASHBACK ALERT, FUCKING FINALLY

“turns out, we were just trying to scare you straight. fuck lot of good that did though lol”

also what is this. one true love: the hospital bed. is that a scanlator joke or is Horikoshi actually that funny omg

SKLJDFLJLK

ITSA ME!! omg I love this hospital so much. though it’s sure not helping me in my quest to try and keep this post below ten images. I’m already up to eleven haha r.i.p. to me if tumblr doesn’t get its shit together

whaaaaaat, so he’s saying that Deku’s injuries were external (i.e. Tomura beating the shit out of him) rather than internal this time?? whaaaaat. excuse me but that’s some bullshit lmao. believe me, I was there

okay now he’s going on to explain that Deku’s “internal structure” seems to have been protected from the inside and out, and the corresponding panel seems to be implying that using Blackwhip as a brace paid off. huh

and also that his body is just stronger now?? so I guess he’s better able to withstand the quirk after an additional year of training?? I’M NOT SURE IF I BUY ANY OF THIS LOL but I’m willing to suspend my disbelief

OH MY GOD RED ALERT, INKO IS ASKING ALL MIGHT TO EXPLAIN WTAF DEKU’S QUIRK IS, IS IT FINALLY THAT TIME OMGGGG

SO HE’S EXPLAINING IT TO HER OFF-SCREEN, AND INKO IS JUST LIKE

I GUESS THAT’S FAIR LOL. IT’S TRUE INKO I’M SO SORRY, YOUR SON IS A PROGATONIST R.I.P.

AHHKKJH DEKU ANGST IS IT FINALLY THAT TIME OMGGGGGG

what is this soft pop beat that’s suddenly being pumped in over the speakers. I’VE GOT TO MOVE ON~ AND BE WHO~ I~ AM~~~, I JUST DON’T BELONG HERE, I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAAAAAAAND. also, follow-up question, when is Kacchan finally going to come back so he can jump in with the “WHAT ABOUT US~~~” bridge, huh. come the fuck on, Horikoshi

lmao All Might jesus christ

but given that it’s a stupid-ass decision...

anyway, yes!! finally that sweet, sweet “I don’t want to put anyone else in danger” angst!!

mmm that’s good angst Brent. Kacchan with center panel honors as usual, you love to see it. anyways though who do I have to yell at to get Deku a goddamn HUG around here seriously

so Inko is of course reacting with panic, and sensibly saying that she doesn’t approve of Deku’s “RUN AWAY AND FIGHT THE BAD GUYS ALL ON MY OWN, DON’T WORRY MOM I’LL JUST GET STRONGER, EASY AS PIE, IT’S A FOOLPROOF STRATEGY” plan

son of a bitch this manipulative green asshole is really gonna sit here and smile fondly at his mom and try to convince her that he’s Not A Little Kid Anymore. the hell you’re not mister

y'all are really just gonna sit there and let him talk you into this?? surely it can’t be that easy??

OH MY GOD

THE FEELS oh my god oh my god. BUT ALSO YOU’RE SERIOUSLY JUST GOING TO COLLAPSE INTO HIS ARMS SOBBING AND LET HIM DO WHATEVER THE FUCK HE WANTS LKJLJLFK. WHERE ARE ALL THE STRICT PARENTS AT?? AIZAWA, GANG ORCA, MITSUKI, SOMEONE PLEASE COME AND TELL DEKU TO SIT HIS ASS THE FUCK DOWN. NOW LISTEN HERE YOUNG MAN!!

“EVEN IF I TRY TO STOP YOU YOU’LL STILL LEAVE” WELL SURE, IF BY “TRY TO STOP HIM” YOU MEAN POLITELY TRY TO TALK HIM OUT OF IT FOR THREE SECONDS. HE’S SIXTEEN WTF WHEN DID HE BECOME THE BOSS OF YOU ALL. SOMEONE NEEDS TO COME AND TELL HIM HE’S GROUNDED

anyway sob so that’s the story of how Deku talked his parents into letting him drop out of school, and even convinced All Might to be his own personal Guy In The Chair. holy shit. this kid really went and rolled a nat 20 and the rest of them had no choice but to fold without argument

meanwhile here’s a panel of Best Jeanist trying to braid his phone into his hair just cuz

I’m dying to know which part of his language he considers to be crude here. you literally didn’t even use a contraction my guy

so now flashback!Deku is talking to Gran in the dark, and Gran is all “can you believe I’m not fucking dead yet lol that’s too funny. anyway, you sure I can’t interest you in killing Tomura after all?? no?? okay then here’s my cape.” truly a heartwarming scene

I’m kind of torn here tbh. on the one hand, my adhd ass wasn’t all that interested in sitting down and having an extended scene between these two when there’s so much else that I want to get to. but on the other hand, even I can admit that cramming this entire reunion into a single page seems just a BIT rushed. idk. like maybe someone can let Horikoshi know it’s a marathon and not a race. Deku didn’t even get any dialogue here, some of us want to know his thoughts!! but anyway

AND JUST LIKE THAT?!

how did all four of them let him con them into this. I literally just watched it happen and I still can’t figure out how. “I GUESS THIS SIXTEEN-YEAR-OLD HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUT IS OUR LEADER NOW” ffflfjf. when Aizawa finds out he’s gonna go apeshit. AND DON’T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON BAKUGOU KATSUKI, WHO I HAVE BEEN ASSURED DOES IN FACT STILL EXIST. WHAT ABOUT USSSSS, WHAT ABOUT EVERYTHING WE’VE BEEN THROUGH. WHAT ABOUT TRUST???! YOU KNOW I NEVER WANTED TO HURT YOUUUUU

btw lol don’t get me wrong, I am enjoying this, and I’m honestly glad Deku’s not alone because that would suck for him! but that said, Hawks and Jeanist have lost any credibility they might have once had as far as being The Responsible Ones, and as for All Might and Endeavor, fucking hell lol. everyone just deposited all of their fucks in a bank somewhere for safekeeping and decided to never look back. godspeed you mad lads

[the-wandering-whumper]

I know this isn't all from you, but there's a discussion happening on your post about people not realizing whump can have a happy ending where people are talking about bad ending whump and slave/pet/captivity whump as if they're mutually inclusive and I'm a little confused. I've always adored whump based off of captivity and torture, but I also like for that to have a lot of comfort and a good ending, or at least a hopeful one.

I can't tell if people take issue with the bad ending or the captivity, because having one doesn't necessarily mean having the other! Or are they bothered only by fics that have both? It's really not clear and I was wondering if you happened to understand better.

This got long, so I put it under a cut

I think there are several discussions going on at once and it's muddying the waters a bit. On the one hand, we've got debate on whether or not whump and hurt/comfort fall under the same umbrella. Then there is a discussion on how whump content should be/is tagged in the community. We've also got people debating the very definition of the word, and finally, if whump can have a happy ending, which is the topic I originally broached.

Here are my thoughts...

When I first joined Tumblr, whump and hurt/comfort were synonymous and used interchangeably. Whump was also almost exclusively centered around fandom. I think I first noticed a shift in the community when OC whump started to become popular. Over the course of the next year or so, the community seemed to split into 2 groups. Those who still stuck mostly to fandom, and those creating their own characters and worlds. (This was not a bad thing, of course. Communities are naturally going to grow and evolve.) I don't know about anyone else, but it was at this time I started to feel a disconnect. I wasn't as involved in the OC side of things because Fandom whump was really the only thing that quenched my thirst for whump and gave me those elusive whumperflies. That's when I think my definition of whump stayed the same, but it began to change for others.

To me, whump has always been a fandom term used to describe a character who is injured, be it emotionally or physically. That can include anything from that character being comforted with no physical injury depicted, to the character being brutally tortured (I like the full spectrum! I just don't reblog a lot of it here to keep this blog accessible to all users). For me, whump can have a happy ending. It can have all comfort. It can be nothing but hurt. That's my definition, and I suspect some of the older bloggers around here might agree with me. I also think this is so ingrained in our roots and how this community started, that you're likely going to have to pry this viewpoint out of our cold, dead hands. And deal with occasional discourse from us as we try to wrap our heads around how much the community is changing.

Nonny, you asked me what topics people are taking issue with. The answer is, all of them. It's an ongoing debate I have a feeling is going to keep resurfacing again and again. My plan is to keep on plugging away, enjoying whump in my own way, and trying to remind everyone every once in a while that they are free to do the same.

That was the intention of my original post. I wasn't saying that there should always be happy endings or criticizing anyone's content, merely pointing out the fact that having comfort or a happy ending should be an option, based on my definition of the word. And yet these concepts seem to be completely absent from some other people's. To the point they weren't sure they could write it and be included in Whumptober. I had to ask why. To me, it's baffling and I wanted to better understand.

I think I do now. We're people and trying to nail down a definition for whump will be something we debate until the proverbial cows come home. My only hope is that it remains a debate, and not an effort to police the word's usage or its meaning. That's when I feel things begin to get toxic.

In my humble Duck Mom opinion, there is no wrong way to whump. No "rules" to all of this, and it just makes me sad sometimes that people think there have to be.

[ncssian]

A Favor: Part Nine

Nessian Modern AU

Masterlist

a/n: reading canon eris discourse literally makes me dizzy but in this fic he's pretty chill

***

“Any plans for Thanksgiving?” Emerie asks as they stroll between the shelves of the library.

Nesta runs her finger down the spine of a textbook on corporate law. “Not really,” she murmurs distantly.

She’s been doing her best not to think of the upcoming holidays, in fact. Cassian is going to Velaris for Thanksgiving, and of course Feyre invited Nesta as well, but…

She’s always ignored her sister’s holiday invites, but this year is different. Cassian, a recent constant in her life, will be gone, enjoying himself for the first time in months without her presence. And Nesta will be at the cabin alone, because of course she can’t celebrate Thanksgiving with Feyre’s found family. Being friends with Cassian hasn’t changed that.

“Well,” Emerie is saying, “a bunch of us can’t go home for the holidays for one reason or another, so we’re hosting a small Friendsgiving at my apartment. You’re invited.”

Nesta glances at her, surprised. “Who’s going to be there?”

“The same guys from drinks night: Eris, Justinian, Isaac. Maybe a plus one or two if we’re lucky.” She elbows Nesta. “Maybe a girl for me to take home.”

“I thought the party was at your home already?”

“You know what I mean. Anyway, are you coming?”

Nesta purses her lips. “But you said it was a Friendsgiving. Those guys aren’t my friends.”

Emerie looks at her like she's insane. “Uh, why not?”

“Because,” Nesta states, “we’ve only had one real interaction all semester.”

Emerie scoffs. “You talk to them all the time in class, Nesta.”

“Yes. Out of necessity.”

Emerie raises a high brow. “That’s how you view spending time with us? A ‘necessity’?”

She’s upset, and Nesta doesn’t know what she said wrong. “That’s not what I meant,” she tries to say.

“Then what did you mean?”

“I just…” Nesta shrugs. “I thought it took more to make friends than a single night out.” Those are the rules, right?

Emerie narrows her dark eyes at her. “I’m sorry we’re not up to standard, then. But for your information, those guys liked you. I’m sure they considered you a friend.” She turns to leave, but Nesta is so stunned she can’t even try to stop her. The click of Emerie’s heels resonate long after she’s gone.

“Hey,” Cassian comes up to her later that day. “About Thanksgiving—”

Nesta drops her dinner plate onto the island with a clatter. “What is it with everybody and Thanksgiving?” Her voice is unnecessarily loud.

Cassian blinks. “Well, it’s only a few days away—”

“I know,” she says. “I’m fine staying home alone. We never celebrated Thanksgiving growing up, you know? It’s really not a big deal.”

“Will you let me finish, Nesta?”

Nesta presses her lips together.

Cassian takes a breath. “I think you should— I would really love it if you came to Velaris with me this weekend.”

There’s a silence as he waits for her to answer.

“I don’t think that’s a good idea,” she says after a moment.

Before he can press the subject, she blurts, “I already have plans.”

“You do?” Nesta can’t tell if he sounds disappointed or surprised.

She straightens her back, lying through her teeth, “Yes. Some friends from school are getting together for a Friendsgiving, and I’m going.” She almost bites her tongue on the word friends. She doesn’t even know what that means anymore.

“That’s amazing,” Cassian says, though he still looks a little taken aback. “I’m glad.” He looks down at the marble counter then, trying to smile. “Sucks for me, though.”

Nesta huffs a laugh. “Please, like you won’t be having fun with your friends whether I’m there or not.”

He rolls his eyes. “Yeah, but why go for half the fun when I could go for double?”

“That’s not how math works,” she snipes.

Cassian grabs a fork so he can sit down across from Nesta. “Don’t you ever bring up correct math in this house again.” He points his silverware at her threateningly.

From there, they can devolve into their usual dinner habit of bantering that leads to more serious conversation. Cassian has recently been on a French movie binge, Nesta learns, and even though she despises the French, she listens closely to his analysis of each film and offers her own thoughts back. She even promises to rewatch one or two of his favorites at a later time. The giddiness he gives in return makes her almost wish she had accepted his invitation earlier, if only so she could keep making him happy.

God. What is he doing to her?

Later that night, Nesta pulls out her phone and opens up her messages with Emerie. She doesn’t want to have rejected Cassian just to end up staying home alone all weekend. She types out five different messages and erases them before settling on an apathetic, Is the invite for Thursday still on?

Emerie takes her time to reply, likely to punish Nesta. After some minutes, she finally texts, Yes.

It’s all she can expect from Emerie, and it’s all she needs to see.

Nesta: I’ll be there.

***

“Cassian!” Feyre swings open the door with an overjoyed smile, ready to greet him.

He laughs and steps in for a hug, going so far as to lift her feet off the floor. Because damn him, even with his conflicted feelings towards Feyre lately, he’s missed her. He’s missed all of his friends, even though he’s found something precious while he was away from them.

He’s ushered into the penthouse, which Feyre and Rhys insist on calling an “apartment”, as if that softens the blow of their extravagant wealth. Cassian and everybody else goes along with it, however, because the rich have committed worse crimes. At least that’s what Nesta says.

“Rhys is out getting last minute beer from the gas station,” Feyre says as she takes his overnight bag. “And you’re the first to arrive, which means I have you all to myself.” She whirls on him with a predatory gleam in her eye. “Tell me everything about the last two months with you and Nesta, ASAP.”

Cassian’s heart starts racing at the unexpected interrogation, but he laughs it off and shrugs. “I don’t know what you’re talking about. We’re just roommates.”

“Well, I know that.” Feyre rolls her eyes. “But what is it like? How is it going? Is she okay? Are you okay?”

Before he can answer a single question, Feyre goes on. “I haven’t heard from either of you in eons, it feels like. Is Nesta still picky about her foods touching? Does she get upset when you play music too loud? Does she—”

“Jesus, Feyre,” Cassian interrupts loudly. “Not everything in my life is about your sister. Give it a rest.” He takes his duffel bag back from her.

“I’m just curious!” she says indignantly, but Cassian is already heading up the winding stairs to his guest room, going as fast as he can without outright running.

“I need to get washed up!” he announces before Feyre can make him stop and come back for more questioning.

In the safety of his bedroom, he releases a breath.

If Cassian thought keeping Nesta’s health issues from Feyre was difficult, he couldn’t have predicted how painful it would be to hide his feelings for Nesta. Still, he doesn’t dare expose what he can’t yet define, especially not to his nosy-ass friends. Some things just aren’t matters for gossip.

***

Nesta hesitantly enters Emerie’s small studio apartment to a party in full swing; “full swing” being Justinian and Isaac playing video games on the couch while Emerie is in the kitchen area attempting to make drinks. Nesta stops near the kitchenette and crosses her arms, surveying the scene. “Something about this doesn’t look right,” she says aloud. Emerie doing the hard work while the men play? Antithetical to her very nature.

“I know,” is all Emerie says without looking up from whatever hellish concoction she’s whipping up. “But I’m the host, so this is my role.”

“Hey, Nesta,” the guys speak up together, not taking their eyes off the TV. Isaac is the first to break his concentration from the game, glancing at Nesta and doing a double take. “Woah, you look good today.” Is he blushing?

Emerie finally looks up at that, eyeing Nesta’s modest black dress. “A little funeral-chic, but still hot as ever, babe.” Right after, she makes a face at the term babe. “Nope, I tried it and I hate it.”

Nesta hates it just as much, but goes over to help Emerie with what she now realizes are oddly colored Jello shots. She picks up a little plastic cup with dark jelly in it and wiggles it around. “What color is this supposed to be?”

“Brown.” Emerie blows a piece of escaped hair out of her face. “They were supposed to be Thanksgiving themed.”

Nesta surveys the shots arranged in various fall colors. Definitely an interesting choice for a twenty-four year old law student, but what did Nesta know about parties?

“Where’s Eris?” she asks casually as she helps arrange more cups. Her argument with Emerie is far from forgotten, but the two women are too alike for their own good. They’ll ignore the lingering tension until it dissipates, and that will be the end of that.

Before Emerie can answer Nesta’s question, a loud bang comes from the entryway as the already open door hits the wall. Eris Vanserra sweeps inside in his designer coat and sophisticated boots, followed by a new, striking face. “It’s fucking freezing,” he announces, just as the new guy quietly shuts the door behind them.

“You’re late,” Emerie says in her usual flat tone.

“I had to pick up my twerp brother.” Eris tilts his head toward the redhead behind him.

“I didn’t ask to come,” the new guy, Eris’s brother, chimes in.

Nesta is perked up now, angling to get a better look at him. Same hair color, same eyes, different skin tone from Eris. He looks like the relaxed, unpretentious version of his brother. Someone pauses the video game.

“I’m Lucien,” he awkwardly raises a hand.

Justinian looks at everybody else. “I’m confused— does this mean we can finally replace Eris’s punk ass?”

The thought of an unexpected guest first makes Nesta clench up, especially when she’s seated right next to the damn guy at the dining table. New people means everything about the regular social routine will be changed up, and she isn’t at all prepared for it.

It takes maybe fifteen minutes for her to realize that Lucien is nothing to worry about— much quicker than she’s ever warmed up to a stranger before.

He has the affected quiet confidence of someone who would rather be anywhere else but here. No one knows that mask better than Nesta.

Against all odds, she’s the first to initiate a conversation.

“Why are you here?” she says bluntly.

No hello, no how are you. Fuck, this is why she doesn’t talk to people.

Lucien looks surprised at the sudden acknowledgment, but answers, “My plans got cancelled at the last minute.” His mouth tightens as he looks toward his brother. “So Eris dragged me here instead.”

“You don’t like your brother?”

Lucien narrows his eyes at her, defensive. “Is this an interrogation or something?”

Embarrassment heats Nesta’s face, but she hides it under her usual cold stare. “Never mind.”

She turns back to her food, refocusing on an anecdote Isaac is giving about a girl he met the other week. A moment later, Lucien says lowly, “I can’t stand my brother.”

She laughs a little too loudly at that, and everyone looks at her.

Isaac grins. “See, Nesta thinks it’s a funny story.”

Nesta frowns. “No, I don’t. You told it last week and no one laughed.”

His face falls. Eris laughs out loud at him, and Emerie tosses wadded up napkins at both men. “You’re both deeply uninteresting. Let’s talk about me.”

She launches into a heated discussion about how she plans to defeat “that bitch Brian” for the internship at Velaris’s biggest law firm next summer, with Eris interjecting that she wouldn’t survive a day in the big city. Nesta turns back to Lucien. “I understand how you feel.”

“You hate Eris too?”

“No, but I have sisters.” Eris is nice, if a pretentious asshole at times, but she empathizes with Lucien either way.

He raises a brow. “And you’re here for Thanksgiving instead of with them?”

For the first time all night, Nesta remembers that Cassian is having fun in a spacious penthouse with Feyre and Elain and the others, likely eating much nicer food than store-bought turkey and Jello shots, and she almost deflates. Almost. Because as much as she enjoys this— spending time with people that belong to her, not Feyre or anybody else— there’s a hollow space in the room that Cassian usually fills. She doesn’t know how she can miss someone and be this thoroughly content at the same time, but she tries not to ponder on her feelings.

She shrugs at Lucien’s question. “We’re all here instead of with our families.”

What would have been a thirty-minute meal on Nesta’s own stretches into a long night of full bellies and fuller conversation. Justinian demands a toast in honor of Friendsgiving, and Emerie tells him not to pull that cringy shit, but everyone ends up raising their small Jello shots to clink against each other.

Thanksgiving might be Nesta’s favorite holiday.

***

Cassian doesn’t know what this feeling is: the itching, nervy sense of impatience that plagues him the longer dinner drags on. All he knows is that tonight Mor’s laughter is just a little too loud, and Amren’s quips are just a little too sharp, and Rhys’s stories aren’t very interesting for once.

Nothing about his friends have changed, but somehow, Cassian feels different. Empty. He can’t stop thinking about what Nesta is doing right now.

He checks his phone under the table for the sixth time in three minutes, for what, he doesn’t know. Maybe she’s in trouble and needs his help. Maybe she’s having a bad night and wants to talk to him. Maybe she’s just bored and thinking about him.

None of this is true, evidently, because his phone remains dead silent.

“Cassian.” It’s Elain’s gentle voice that draws him out of his head. “What’s it like having a roommate for once? I know you and Nesta love being alone.”

He nearly jumps out of his skin. “Alone? No we don’t. Why would we love being alone together?”

Elain looks at him like he’s grown a new head. “I didn’t mean alone together. It’s just that you’ve always spent your time boarded up in that mountain cabin on your own, and before Nesta moved in, she wouldn’t leave her apartment even to see me.”

“I never thought of it that way,” Feyre butts in. She whirls to Cassian with her hands under her chin. “All this time I was wondering what you and Nesta living together would be like, and I didn’t even consider you guys avoiding each other.”

Cassian scoffs a laugh but doesn’t know how to respond. He just wants Feyre and Elain to stop poking at this raw, fresh thing in his life before his nerves get worse, so he turns to Amren and brings up the thing he knows will shut everyone down: work. “How much longer is Rhys gonna have you playing double agent at Adriatic?” She’s been acting as brand ambassador to the West Coast-based conglomerate for the past five months, playing nice while gathering information on Night Court Inc.’s biggest competitor.

Groans resound around the table, but Amren’s eyes brighten frightfully. “If he keeps me there any longer, I might end up staying for good.”

Rhysand smiles thinly. “Amren has a crush on their new CFO. If she keeps going on about Varian’s pretty face I might pull her out of Adriatic by the end of the year.”

Just as Cassian is about to convince himself to care, his phone vibrates in his hand. Everything tunes out as he sees Nesta’s name on the screen, attached to a new text. He clicks into it.

A picture of Nesta and her friends around a dinner table pops up, smiling and laughing. His heart catches in his throat at the image.

“What did we say about phones during dinner, Cassian?” Rhysand interrupts just then.

Cassian stands up quickly, stammering, “Uh, I just need to answer this call— it’s important.” Azriel is staring up at him like he’s lost his mind, but Cassian doesn’t notice or care as he rushes out of the room with his phone in a death grip, overcome.

Alone in a hallway bathroom, he lets himself look at the picture again, hungrily absorbing every detail he couldn’t catch the first time around: her face is flushed and her hair is down, wilder than usual. Her smile is so rarely genuine that it kills him a little just to see it; he doesn’t know whether to be relieved or pained that she’s having such a good time, that she isn’t missing him like he’s missing her. A sharp-faced girl that Cassian assumes is Emerie is holding the camera, likely having stolen Nesta’s phone to demand a picture, and the two women are surrounded by guys he doesn’t recognize. Except—

The face beside Nesta’s catches Cassian’s attention, and he clicks to zoom in. “Is that Lucien Vanserra?” he mutters.

Elain’s ex gets to hang out with Nesta while he doesn’t? This is fucked.

He doesn’t have a reason for his actions as he shoves his phone into his pocket and exits the bathroom. He just knows he needs to get out of here, away from this place that’s so far from Nesta’s heart.

His keys and coat hang near the front door, and he can hear Feyre’s voice from the dining room. “Cassian? Where are you—”

The door slams behind him before she can finish.

***

Being the only one who refused to get drunk off Jello shots, Eris offers to drive Nesta home for the night.

While Lucien is passed out in the backseat without a care in the world, Nesta is so awake she can feel her nerves buzzing. She knows as soon as she leaves this car, the bittersweet loneliness that comes after a party will set in, but for now…

What a night. She sighs and lets her head fall back against the seat, a small smile gracing her lips.

“Damn,” Eris lets out a low whistle as he pulls up to the mountain cabin. “This is your place?”

She lifts her head, realizing she’s home. “Ah. It’s only a temporary living situation,” she explains. “It’s my— friend’s place.”

“Friend or sugar daddy?” Eris smirks.

Nesta scowls, grabbing her stuff and pushing open the door to leave. It’s not Eris’s fault she’s unable to take a joke about Cassian, but that doesn’t change the sensitivity of the topic.

“Hey, wait—” he calls after her.

She pauses to look back at him. He hesitates, then says, “Good night.”

“Take care of your brother,” she directs. Stepping out of his fancy car, she shuts the door and raises a hand in goodbye, watching him pull away from the cabin.

Alone in the driveway, Nesta stands under the moonlight for a long moment, letting the chill seep into her bones. She’s dawdling.

She pauses again at the front door, her hand on the doorknob. The dreaded loneliness is already coming over her, crawling over her skin and making a home in the cage of her ribs.

A whole weekend without Cassian.

Maybe she should have asked Emerie if she could stay over for the night, but a part of her knows it would have been futile. Emerie can’t replace Cassian’s constant presence, no matter how much Nesta likes her.

It’s only three days. She steels herself and unlocks the door, prepared to be greeted by darkness and hollow silence.

The first thing she notices when she steps inside is the sound of crackling, followed by a warm glow from the living area. The lights are all off, but the fireplace is ablaze.

Nesta’s brows furrow, confused, but then she sees on the couch— “Cassian?”

***

a/n: i know justinian and isaac are names for side characters that sjm has used before but in this case they're completely different ocs.

taglist: @ladywitchling @sjm-things @thewayshedreamed @drielecarla @sensitiveillyrian @superspiritfestival @aliveahaahahafuck @cupcakey00 @sayosdreams @rainbowcheetah512 @claralady @thebluemartini @nessiantho @missing-merlin @duskandstarlight @lucy617 @sleeping-and-books @everything-that-i-love @cassianscool @awesomelena555 @julemmaes @wickedqueenoffantasy @poisonous-bloom @observationanxioustheorist @gisellefigue08 @courtofjurdan @theoverlyenthusiasticwriter @wolfiixxx @cass-nes @seashade @royaltykxx @illyrianundercover @queenestarcheron @monstrousloves-explodinggalaxies @humanexile @that-golden-lyre @agentsofsheilds @mercy-is-alive @cassiansbigwingspan @laylaameer01 @verypaleninja

[1ddiscourseoftheday]

🚨Thurs 17 Dec ‘20🚨

No one will argue, this year has been the worst and I'm not really into that whole 'silver linings to bad things' bit, but... BUT! If the demise of live shows and rise of livestreams meant Zayn deciding to perform for us?! Well. I would be willing to reconsider my whole ass philosophy on life! Unfortunately, despite the excitement (or was it hysteria?) he inspired last night by getting all our hopes up, it might just be a music video? We'll see though. He definitely did register a new song, UNFXWITABLE (!), and then, and THEN: slid a single photo into his instagram story, a truly beautiful old baroque theater stage, fitted with live show speakers and a tantalizingly closed red curtain. The stage lights are on, the seats are empty... prepping for zomething?? It was discovered to be the St George Theater in Staten Island, very exciting, but today more video of them working on whatever they're working on surfaced (a snippet at the theater with a bit of an unknown song audible) that makes it seem more likely they're working on a music video than a livestream set up. Still, we can DREAM. At the very least we're getting a new song any minute now and at best-- Z3 and a video AND a liveztream?? (or prerecorded, that's FINE.) The pap pics the other day were him leaving a menswear boutique (sorry I said home, my bad, it was the usual 'front door to car' walk though) leading to speculation he was getting fitted for zomething zpecial... maybe we'll get to see it soon!

Likely on account of the added European show tickets going on sale today, Louis came online to check in, and also to laugh at old videos of himself, send larries into a tailspin, and best of all, weigh in on and shut down discourse left and right THANK YOU SIR! Louis is happy to walk us all through how not to get Live In London video taken down (“do it on a burner account haha?” tips from the master truly, no one would know better so listen to him); he denies having such an account himself (“maybe I should”) though unlike Liam (see below) HE doesn't go that extra step into obvious lie territory and say he's NEVER had one. On how he deals with comments about his height (which are up again these last few days due to a video circulating that uses math to conclude once again that he is in fact, as documented, 5'9”), “I rise above them,” he zings back, and in appreciation of someone who actually got the joke, “you're on my level,” DOUBLE PUNNING, BOOM but that's not all: he finishes off with the comment that finished ME off, “such a peculiar debate.” REALLY. Peculiar specifically, not like strange or weird or annoying you just... went right in for the Eroda copyrighted word huh. OKAY. Also: no, probably no collabs on LT2 (“doubt it”), yes he loves twitter “in doses, no better way to talk to you lot” (you mean even better than via t shirts?? sounds fake but okay), tells us he is “100% for sure” is gonna get the vaccine, and that “cucumber is shit” which isn't really a discourse we needed him to solve that I knew of but like, okay! Sorted! Antis seethed about him talking to larries and larry UAs and picking a video of him and H singing You and I to reply to, and probably cucumber enthusiasts and anti-vaxxers were unhappy too, but the rest of us? WINNING.

Liam is all over, first appearing in a fisherman's cap that nicely sets of his full and fluffy beard, then demonstrating answering questions for the Naughty List insta filter. He says he has never made a fake social media account, so I guess he's not lurking here reading these or I would guess that if I believed THAT for one second, he also says yes I have lied to my best friend so I'll just chose to believe he means us by 'best friend' since here he is, lying away. Dixie is absent from the recent promo, which is a blessing not just because they don't mesh particularly well but also because she's gotten even more terrible on main, moving from simply allying herself with racists to producing her own racist content- if we're lucky she'll simply fade away along with xmas and we can move on without any of that thank you very much. Liam is still a good BFF to us though: today he's offering himself up as prize in a raffle, you can enter to win a 'once in a lifetime VIP Experience in 2021 with Liam' for a low low £5, funds going to Stagehand's #ILoveLive campaign to support industry workers. And on the 17th day of christmas, my LP Advent Alarm woke me up with... Roman Kemp leading us through a weirdly peppy breathing exercise, backed with both soothing spa music and a sample of Liam's voice taken from the sleep story played over and over at near random intervals! I said it before and I'll say it again, they REALLY should have recorded all the material at once last month, but tbh I am enjoying the chaotic daily scramble to find something to put on the thing that's come of them being caught short maybe even more than I would normal content, it's getting downright experimental and I'm fully here for it. It's got that classic janky af for no reason 1D feel you know!

Rob Sheffield found better things to say about Watermelon Sugar, naming it his number one song of 2020 and calling it “a lost Stevie Nicks/ Stevie Wonder duet” plus gifting us a Harry quote: “that one we reworked a bunch of times, and it died a couple times, then it just kept coming back. We fully killed it a few times, but it kept coming back in. So I thought, There’s a reason it’s surviving.” And Chris Pine- who also says that he's all done shooting his part of Don't Worry Darling- said, “Harry Styles is an absolute delight. He's one of the most professional people I've ever met. Couldn't be kinder, more gracious, I mean, really, I was stunned by this kid. He's off-the-charts cool.”

And finally, as 2020 draws to a close we are being flooded with a barrage of our guys being declared winners of incredibly narrow categories (Harry on a list of 'groundbreaking magazine covers' for example), but I think the winner of MY list of 'Highly Specific Accolades' is sewn up for the year already; Heartbreak Weather is officially “the first [advertising] campaign to utilize weather-tracking technology to target content to users”! I'll definitely be keeping my eye out for competitors but beating that for reaching for a category will be TOUGH.

[coffeeandritalin]

Thoughts on The Song of Achilles

I just read The Song of Achilles, and while I have book club tomorrow to gush over this book, I think the level of deep I'm digging to will probably be too much for my club-mates. So I've decided to use Tumblr to offload instead.

This is the first book I actively annotated in since... probably high school (aka, it's been more than a hot second). This was probably the best and worst book to use to start annotations again. Best because it is so beautifully written. Worst because, of course, I no longer have a heart as it has been hollowed out to relieve me of the intense pain I suffered after reading it.

In the final chapter, Patroclus calls Thetis out, "You said that Chiron ruined him. You are a goddess, and cold, and know nothing. You are the one who ruined him." I definitely agree with Patroclus here. However, in today's TED talk, I will rant about how Patroclus' is also responsible for Achilles' ruin.

To start, I have to praise Miller for how masterfully she molds each character. In just four chapters, we have a complex understanding of who Patroclus is as a person and why he ticks the way he ticks. Patroclus' defining characteristic, confidence (or lack thereof), is first hinted at on the first page, "Quickly, I became a disappointment." This is the core trait Miller starts out with to flesh out the character. The low opinion Patroclus has of himself, heavily shaped by his father, becomes the source and shaper of all his other traits.

Patroclus' low self-opinion is his greatest gift and flaw. His entire life, he has been told he is worth nothing. He is emotionally abused, depressed, and hurting. Tragically, out of this comes his humility and humbleness. In a world that is hard and cruel, Patroclus chose to be soft and kind - the key to what makes the people around him love him so deeply. There is a whole separate soap box waiting to be stepped on for this topic alone. Today, we are focusing on how Patroclus' lack of confidence becomes his fatal flaw. Just as his gentleness is borne from his low confidence, so too is his self-contempt, and this is his ultimate undoing.

From the very first moment he lays eyes on him, Patroclus has always seen himself as second to Achilles. It originates from a place of envy but eventually comes from a place of love and admiration. Patroclus, believing himself only worthy of disdain, allows this to define him. Rather, he uses it to define himself - what value could he possibly have without Achilles at his side?

It is not just Thetis' misguided, motherly love and prideful scorn for mortals that fills Achilles' mind with the whispers of gods instead of the cries of his peers. It is not just the adulation of the masses and the glorification of war that lures Achilles into hubris and a madness that even Patroclus falls prey to. It is also Patroclus' self-contempt and core belief that he has no value beyond Achilles that fuels and enables Achilles' arrogance.

There was only one person Achilles was ever willing to put on a pedestal above himself. He believes Patroclus is worth extending the Trojan War and keeping thousands of families apart for ten years (a separate discourse on this). He holds Patroclus in the absolute highest regard. On multiple occasions, although Patroclus only consciously acknowledges two, Achilles defers to what Patroclus' wants. Despite his godliness, which he is fully aware of, Achilles is willing to submit himself to Patroclus.

Patroclus is always in awe of Achilles and in disbelief that he managed to land such a hot piece of a**. Through the first two thirds of the book, Achilles also repeatedly mentions how equally in awe he is of Patroclus and repeatedly tries to get Patroclus to stand by his side as an equal. However, Patroclus' self-contempt will not allow him to see himself as Achilles' equal. Achilles makes many attempts to put Patroclus' needs first, but Patroclus consistently rebuffs these efforts and insists his needs be second to Achilles'. Over time, Patroclus trains Achilles to see his (Achilles') needs above his own (Patroclus'). Due to a highly privileged upbringing, Achilles knows no better than to gradually accept this as fact and ends up taking it for granted.

The only person who could have taught Achilles to know better and to understand reason is Patroclus himself (and probably Chiron, but Chiron isn't the one who is constantly and seductively whispering in Achilles' ears for 20 odd years). Patroclus was everything that tethered Achilles to his gentleness and humanity. However, Patroclus dotes on and spoils Achilles far too much. He makes himself, and is grateful to be, the rug that Achilles wipes his shoes on (despite Achilles equal insistence to clean off Patroclus' shoes).

With all this pre-established cognitive wiring, can we blame Achilles for being the densest of all walnuts when it comes to Patroclus' feelings and needs? (The answer is yes, and I place equal blame on Achilles as I do Patroclus for all of this.) Until the last third of the book, Patroclus is the only person who could possibly force their will on Achilles. He loved and respected both his parents, but he was defiant even against them. Of course, Patroclus has neither parent's pride and does not ever seek to force his will on Achilles or anyone else (something which he is definitely loved for). He loves Achilles and genuinely wants everything that would make Achilles happy.

Most crucial to this whole rant thought, Patroclus also refuses to acknowledge (read: zero self-confidence) that he has the power to stay Achilles' hand. Patroclus forgets he has a voice. He forgets his opinions and feelings are worth of acknowledgement. He forgets to be selfish and fight for what he wants (outside of Achilles' survival).

In true Patroclus fashion (forever putting others before himself), he finally stands up against Achilles for Briseis' sake. Although he has secured Briseis' temporary safety, he is far too late and Achilles has already been swimming in the deep end for a good thirty minutes. Achilles is entrenched in the belief that he and Patroclus are of the same mind, that his wants must also be Patroclus' wants. While he is wounded by the betrayal, Achilles cannot and does not stay mad at Patroclus because he knows his immortal glory is also what Patroclus is trying to build and preserve.

This is as deep as Achilles' understanding goes though. Achilles' belief system has been shaped too perfectly. His cause is Patroclus' cause, any ancillary motivation is but an afterthought. The blinders are up and Achilles only has eyes for his immortal glory. He is blind to how much pain was necessary to provoke Patroclus into mutiny against him. He is unaware of the searing grief it caused Patroclus (in contrast, Briseis immediately understands how severely this betrayal affects Patroclus). Worse, Achilles is completely ignorant of Patroclus' true reasoning and displays blatant lack of concern to Patroclus' emotional wellbeing by immediately launching into how he and Thetis have concocted a plan to let thousands of more Greeks suffer for the sake of his honor. Patroclus is fighting (albeit too late) to bring Achilles back to his humanity and spare innocent people from needless brutality. He has literally and physically spilt blood to right the wrongs he finally opened his eyes to, and Achilles undoes it all in one, idle stroke.

Patroclus was the only person who could keep Achilles grounded, but his infinite love only made him wish to see Achilles fly free. Patroclus was the only person who could scold Achilles into seeing the wrong in his actions and beliefs, but his dotage stayed his tongue and he instead chose to maintain Achilles naivete. Patroclus was the only person who could raise Achilles to his best self and also utterly break him, but his self-contempt did not allow him to acknowledge that he had the power, and thus responsibility, to guide Achilles. Patroclus failed to take meaningful action earlier because he had little faith that his actions and words would matter (despite Achilles, Briseis, and Chiron repeatedly trying to convince him otherwise). He eventually builds up the confidence to believe he is at least worthy of dying for someone he loves, thus cursing grief upon those who love him.

[remythologise]

Hello! I found your blog via you amazingly summarizing all that's going on with the spn drama. Due to my schedules, rl stuff, some of the arcs that didn't vibe with me, my availability to find a place to watch...the rollercoaster I was used to with this fandom was more me binging it in a weekend to going months to over a year without watching it. I still haven't watched the last season(but with a fandom this big it's pretty impossible not be spoiled so I more or less know what happened) BUT oh great one I ask of thee for more information if you have it...other than being busy and whatnot, I'm not really one to keep up with the actors as well. So could you also maybe do a summary of all the stans? I'im seeing terms I haven't seen before. Who is Kelios(sp?)? Hellions?? probably messed it up but like...I guess what are the name of each legion? Who do they have alliance towards? What was their desires? Que paso?!?!?!?

Hi there! 'Some of the arcs that didn't vibe with me' me emotionally quitting Supernatural in Season 7 after they killed Castiel 😂 Anyway I totally get it, I went through the same culture shock mid-last year when I got back into SPN and tried to find where fandom was at! There's really a LOT of lore and content after 15 years though so I'll just do the broad brushstrokes based on my impressions and personal stereotypes PLEASE remember this is oversimplifying groups and individuals to tendencies and I'm very biased! Also important that there are sub-factions within sub-factions - again, I'm simplifying here!

I've also linked to the 'Super-wiki' in terms of some definitions because the Super-wiki has pages for them where the Fandom-wiki does not. Great introduction actually - only in the Supernatural fandom. There are two Supernatural wikis. One, through curation and twitter activity, supports BiBro/Wincest factions and does not support Destiel users. One is more neutral or Destiel-friendly (I don't know that the Fandom wiki has a personality/social media presence per se). You cannot make this up. There is a factional war... within use of fandom wikis.

Destiel faction

People who primarily ship Dean/Cas, love Castiel and (often, although not always) Jack, and the 'found family' of Supernatural as well as the brothers, and like the post s3 seasons too. Hated 15.19 and 15.20 for killing Dean and ignoring the other characters/narrative arc of the show. Nicknamed 'Destihellers' by the Wincest faction as a derogatory term, 'reclaimed' and shortened as 'Hellers', a nickname they use affectionately to describe each other. See more info on nicknames here.

Sometimes also ship ‘Cockles’ (the ship between Misha Collins and Jensen Ackles) although generally speaking they're more respectful of the wives of the actors than J2 shippers, who are notoriously responsible for... a vast series of insane-fan misdemeanours. Historically most were also good at keeping RPF to themselves and not harassing celebrities with it directly, although recently, particularly with younger twitter fans, that has not been the case.

Sub-factions:

The ‘Desticule’ or ‘Destiel tumblr’ - general grouping of Destiel-shipping tumblr users around 20-30 years old, usually LGBT+, most who came back to the show post-15.18 after leaving it for various reasons including getting sick of the queerbaiting. Funniest bitches alive etc. and responsible for the best text posts you’ve ever seen. Can also start stupid discourse and in-group drama when they’re bored.

'POLOL' - People of Lots of Letters, a discord group (of tumblr and twitter users) that ran on the assumption Andrew Dabb was playing a hugely intricate game of 3D chess to do with gnostic symbolism among other things, and would make Destiel canon. Have since had their own factional sub-wars and fallen apart a bit. Some of their meta was and is good and interesting! Some of it was wildly off the mark. Now generally insist that Dabb/the writers were all pushing for Destiel canon and the network is entirely to blame.

Twitter fans (TikTok edition) - younger fans around 18 and younger who (FOR REASONS BEYOND ME) started watching the show around 2018-2020. Definition of 'stans'. Tend to be very loud and aggressive on twitter when Events Happen, which like. I do get, because they've grown up in a completely different media environment and this kind of Dinosaur Politicking around LGBT+ issues is beyond them. Fancam central. Anyway stream #CASTIEL for clear skin!

Twitter fans (AO3 edition) - older fans around 30+ who kept going with the show but either don't have a large tumblr presence or just prefer twitter. A lot of fic writers, GISH-ers, and BNFs in this group. Some of them are very cool and reasonable in their opinions, some of them act like the younger stans. Some of them too accepting of what happened wrt 15.19-20 in my opinion, because, in contrast to the younger twitter stans, they grew up expecting Destiel to NEVER be canon or respected. 'Can't believe we got this far' etc.

Multiship faction

Multishippers or shippers of things not as large as the two main behemoths . Sub-factions based on shipping, e.g. Megstiel and Sastiel. I don't think these groups are very large though, and seem to have very little influence in the Discourse.

Wincest faction

LARGE overlap with the 'BiBro' faction and their opinions, which I'll get to. Ship Sam and Dean romantically. Often pretend to be BiBros on places like twitter and reddit in order for outside groups to take their opinions more seriously. 'Wincesties' etc. are derogatory nicknames given by the Destiel faction.

Sub-factions:

Multiship fans - ship Sam and Dean but respect Castiel/the 'found family'. Politically overlap with the faction of multishippers, I think. I don't have a lot of insight on this group of people honestly, but I know they exist.

Bronlies - the typical BiBro and 'Wincest' shippers most people think of, twitter user 'Kelios' is one of the would-be ringleaders of this faction - typically tend to be older white midwestern women. Historically have been pretty nasty on twitter (leading to Robert Berens, writer who made Destiel canon, occasionally subtweeting Kelios). Also tend to ship 'J2' - and take it very seriously as a legitimate thing that is really real. This is called 'tinhatting'.

BiBro faction

People who think the show should JUST be about the brothers, love Supernatural s1-3 and everything after it should have been just like Supernatural s1-3. Hate Castiel, Jack, and the 'found family'. Largely loved 15.20. Go to literally any comments section on any Supernatural article and You Will Find Them complaining about how the show should just be about the Brothers. Tend to be older, straighter, and more conservative/Republican (and male) fans. (I am aware that the definition of 'BiBro' used to refer to people who just liked the brothers but there's no definitional difference now in the discourse.) The Wincest and BiBro faction are generally much more wealthy than the Destiel faction (they being younger and more diverse/queer/left-leaning in general) and would be the biggest revenue generators at conventions etc.

Sub-factions:

Reddit bros - literally anyone who visits r/supernatural. Well, that's not fair - there are people who post reasonable opinions on there, but it's pretty rare and they get downvoted a lot. Like to talk about 'toxic Destiel fans' 'ruining the show' and how Dean is a straight man who is straight and could never possibly be gay. Might even think the confession was platonic despite all evidence to the contrary. I'm Not Homophobic I Have Gay Friends, But No Gays on MY Show!

Old Guard - group of older fans who overlap strongly with the Wincest faction, but might not necessarily ship Wincest.

GA faction

'General Audience' - These are the group of audience members that aren't 'online' so to speak; most watch the show on TV as a Casual Viewing Experience (are therefore also sometimes referred to as 'casuals'. Mostly their opinions tend towards BiBros, but they have a vast range of baffling views thanks to being Not Online and usually Not caring about Supernatural that much or thinking that deeply about it.

Sub-factions:

People who simply watch Supernatural on TV and then don't think about it very much after that.

I said they weren't 'online' but that's not entirely true; I'd probably classify people on Supernatural Facebook Groups as GA, along with friends of friends who post statuses about how 15.20 was a neat finale that wrapped up the series.

Conclusion

Supernatural is famously the show that appeals to both Republicans and Democrats, literally All Orientations, so there's a WIDE range of factions. However, most warring online boils down to Destiel vs. Wincest/BiBro - the war that started in Season 4 and has simply never ended. In terms of the 'actors' and their stans, in general, Wincest/BiBro fans love Jared, like Jensen, and dislike Misha. Destiel fans love Misha, like Jensen, and dislike Jared. Of course as with everything, there are variations and this is just a generalisation. But that's the summary of it, from my perspective!

This didn't even get into Sam girls, Dean girls and Cas girls. God. Anyway.

Hope that answered your question, anon!