#their asses did NOT interact
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Why do you people think Cyllene had like. Any part in raising Cyrus. She's not his grandma, she's like. Great-grandmother at LEAST, and even that's a stretch. Kinda seems like a convoluted way to make a woman take the blame for a man's shitty behaviour but idk
#pokemon#pkmn#cyllene#galactic boss cyrus#just to be clear if it is revealed that cyrus was traumatized by a woman we should hold her accountable#but cyllene(whos from. early meiji era iirc#is very clearly too old to have interacted with cyrus(who was 27 in 2006-2007) in any way#like. shes from the 1860s-70s ish#their asses did NOT interact#also i camt find the quote but like. its implied that cyrus grew up in a nuclear family rather than one with grandparents anyway isnt it?
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Announcing the second Queer Vampire IF Jam!
This is a month-long game jam that will run from January 10 - February 20th, 2025. The goal of this jam is to create more interactive fiction games about queer vampires, focusing both on queer relationships and queer experiences as told through a vampiric narrative.
Check out the entries from last year here!
JAM RULES:
Your project must focus on queer characters and vampires. Queer relationships, romantic or platonic, as well as other queer experiences, whether gay, lesbian, bisexual, ace, aro, trans and nonbinary - this is an inclusive jam.
You can write from a human or vampire perspective (or both!)
This jam will accept any medium, so long as the work is an Interactive Fiction.
This jam will accept adult content as well as games covering heavy & uncomfortable topics, but please be sure to properly list trigger warnings either in-game or on the game page.
Entries that promote any kind of bigotry will not be accepted.
Games should not include any AI generated content.
You can submit as many entries as you'd like.
There is no language requirement; we will accept games in any language.
You are allowed to start working on your project early! That's why I'm announcing it now. This jam is unranked and it's not a contest, this is just for fun.
Submissions open midnight, January 10th EST. They'll close February 20th at 11:59pm EST.
Join the jam here!
hosted by me and @nyehilismwriting
Additional questions we got asked frequently last year, for clarification:
Do Visual Novels count?
Yes!
What is Interactive Fiction?
Personally, I find interactive fiction hard to define, and I’m not interested in policing it, so as long as it’s recognizably interactive fiction - ie, the game has a narrative focus primarily with text, and the player can interact (whether that be with direct choices, clicking through links, or allowing the player to choose how to move around and interact with the world/the game like in bitsy) then it counts. Parsers, visual novels, choose-your-own-adventures are some of the popular examples of IF, but there are plenty that don’t fall within any category. Check out the IF tag on itch.io and you can see just how varied it is.
Does it have to be horror?
No, any genre is accepted!
#interactive fiction#game jam#wheewwww did this shit creep up on me this year LOL#i probably won't be submitting but i want to host it again for others :-)#and yes im reusing the graphics. sorry i cant be assed at the moment#vampjamp
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A little different than last year's, but here we are again. To say that this past year hasn't been absolutely wild would be a lie, cause HOLY SHIT MAN
This year's birthday is. A little different for me, but you already have the silly comic to show that so I won't make like a broken record oops
But, despite the changes and hills that life's decided I should climb or throw at, it hasn't changed the fact that I'm so genuinely fucking thankful to the people that I've known since joining this fandom. I'm not even kidding when I say that being here has actually changed my life for the better. I know I said something similar last year, but this time, hoo boy it sure turned up the AMP and test how far I could go.
So, to everyone, both new and old; thank you for being here :D
@garbagechocolate @darkxsoulzyx @smoljeanius @bunmuffin @skizabaa
@tuzesdays @sleepykas @fernzwing @kandidandi @starsketchez
@just-a-drawing-bean @notdysfunk @ilsole @amberluvsbugs @cloudyvoid
@nomsthecat @alfinefalf @nosleepygay @theblog-with-thestuff
@cacaocheri
(Edit: ty kibbits for informing me of the. Fuck ass tagging system)
AND TAGGING OTHERS BECAUSE. POINTS. BONKS WITH HEAD. GETTING TO EITHER INTERACT OR TALK OR WHATEVER IS ALWAYS A DELIGHT
@ohno-the-sun @kibbits @ink-yy @saltyfryz @kaprisvn
@hierba-picante @sunny-sophies-garden @cookiiemancer @sneeblbop @justaduckarts
@pepethehumanz @crystalmagpie447 @woolysstuff @mocha-illustrates @duhsty1
@sanchensky @pillowspace @victarin @witherfide
[I DEFINITELY GOT SONAS WRONG AND THESE AREN'T ALL THE SILLY PEOPLE I KNOW BUT IM SITTING HERE AT 2:30 IN THE MORNING JUST KNOW YOU'RE THERE IN SPIRIT HANDING YOU ALL POPTARTS WAUGH]
#nebula art and doodles#should. i even count it as that-#nebula birthday time#fuck it birthday tag go brrr#also if i. didnt tag you it is 100% because i'm. a fucking coward <33 and am not sure if you'd like to be tagged in a silly thing like this#(or i don't. know you. that also but shaky thumbs up)#god. this year has been. insane dawg#my goofy ass going through canon events like it's a buffet /silly#jokes aside#the fact that im still like. here. right here#posting or reblogging goofy shit#still in the process of making my fic (i prommy im working on it)#and just. managing to make friends with people despite shit happening#it's so wild to me#i know for some people i've tagged we either haven't talked that much or haven't talked in awhile#and to that i say#fuck it we ball /j#but seriously it's. honestly bc getting to interact with you guys at all makes or has made my day that much brighter#even if it's been awhile like i mentioned or for whatever reason#this is. getting long as hell and i need to go to bed oops#anywhooooo#gotta go fast or some shit#OH- and thank you all so much for. almost 3k. holy shit#where the fuck did you all COME FROM HOW DID WE GET HERE#big heart emojis and sending love to you all#thank you so much
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blehhh sillae
#elden ring#thiollier#elden ring thiollier#the entire dlc I was waiting for this man to die because I wanted his armor#and when he did finally die I didn't like it#he is just a funny guy he should have lived#anyways this 'im weary of life' interaction lives rent-free in my head#and my stinky ass tarnished I guess#he must have a whole ecosystem in his hair the way I keep making him roll#that and ive never seen this man bathe
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and also "putting everyone in a simulation will make it all ok 👍" and also "let's park next to this random system's sun" and also "we can't live on our own planet because of our own folly" and so on
#and also an inablity to accept the inevitable...etc etc#i thought of some more but then i forgot them 😋#originally wanted to post this with other sillies but then i was like. well i dont wanna spoil anyone on either a these games so erm. ya#nine sols#outer wilds#nine sols spoilers#outer wilds spoilers#outer wilds echoes of the eye#echoes of the eye spoilers#echoes of the eye#if youve played nine sols could i recommend outer wilds: a space exploration game where u play as a cute and short lookin alien whos#unraveling the mysteries of their solar system although there isnt any combat and although there are horrors theyre not like. well.#nobodies bein harvested thats for sure. and its very much about the story#and if youve played outer wilds uhh. i. dont really know if i can recommend nine sols even though i Can summarize it as a game where u do#explore and there is space and u Are an alien (from a humans pov) and you Are cute and short (from a humans pov)(until u learn the horrors)#and there Are horrors but erm. well. shrug emote. it Is a combat game thats the primary reason#the horrors are less the horrors of space and how easy it is for you to die and the idea of said causes of death and also the unknown. and#more the sins of some REALLY fucked up cats. ethically dubious science sins. actual guts bein spilled. i mean i aint actin like the warning#of the game id recommend lookin those up. sure is a game tho (i cried)(just like w outer wilds)#feels like i could recommend a non combat game to a combat game player easier than the other way round#the theoretical combat game player would be capable of playing a non combat game right#feels harder to imagine the other way around. then again i Did find outer wilds mechanically difficult at times in a way that combat games#can challenge me. so. shrug#all that matters is if u enjoyed the dialogue n interactions in nine sols...if u didnt vibe w that then im unsure how much outer wilds woul#vibe for you. etc etc#idk why i started typing up a whole ass recommendation in the tags. anyway have at ye#idk who'd read this far but i salute you FSDHLFSDHKSFDH
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I think what’s even more telling about Tommy and Dream situation is that almost everybody and their parents came to defend tommy (perhaps not defended him but are on his side) and that has been the case for quite a while now, even before the recent situation.
And meanwhile Dream closest friends - that live with him - haven’t said a single thing yet to defend him.
That kind of speak for itself, doesn’t it?
I just hope for Tommy and cie to finally have some peace and that they can heal from that cursed SMP.
P.s : Btw they shouldn’t defend him, what he did is bad asf and is in no way reclaiming a slur. I’m just trying to say that nobody, no even his besties are in his corner.
#tommyinnit#dream neg#like even Dean Withers is on Tommy side and they never interacted#dsmp drama#tubbo is debunking Dreams vidéo I love it#dreamwastaken#dream team#I doubt sapnap and George will tweet about it#Even if they did they’ll probably defend his ass#Ludwig exposing dream is funny asf#also fuck dream team while I’m at it
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just found one of my favorite pieces of writing advice when it comes to interactive fiction, i think if you've read literally any of my work, it will be pretty obvious how much i use this in my own writing. i actually couldn't remember where i read this for the first time and on a whim i went through my twitter likes and found it in a thread. i'm going to transcribe it for ease of reading, but this is all coming from Alexander Freed (@/AlexanderMFreed on twitter)
he has a website here with other compiled writing advice about branching narratives and game design, though he never posted this there and hasn't really updated recently (but still check it out. there's some specific entries about writing romance, branching and linear & other game writing advice)
original twitter thread here
It's Tuesday night and I feel like teaching some of what I've learned in 15 years of branching narrative video game writing. Let's go in-depth about one incredibly specific subject: neutral / fallthrough / catchall response options!
Player ownership of the protagonist in choice-based branching narrative games (a la BioWare, Telltale, mobile narrative games, etc) is a vital aspect of the form.
The ability for the audience to shape a Player Character, to develop that character's inner life in their own mind, is unmatched in any other medium.
The Player determines the character's actions and THE MOTIVATIONS for those actions. The character's psychology can literally be as complex as the Player can imagine. However, this works best when there's enough space for the Player to develop those motivations. No game can offer enough options to support every interpretation imaginable; much of the character has to live in the Player's head, without necessarily appearing on the screen.
That's complicated. We're going to unpack it.
Generally, when presenting choices to a Player, we want those choices to be as interesting and compelling as possible.
But compelling, dramatic choices tend to be revealing of character. And no game can support hundreds of options at every choice point for every possible character motivation a Player might imagine.
This sort of narrative CANNOT maintain its integrity if the Player is forced to constantly "rewrite" their characterization of the Player Character on the fly. You want your Player to feel like they have more than enough viable options at any given moment.
At the simplest level of writing, this is where "fallthrough" responses come in.
In the examples above, each moment contains a response which furthers the story but doesn't imply a huge emotional choice for the Player. The Player is asked to choose A or B, agree or disagree, but can sidestep the issue altogether if desired.
These "neutral" responses are vital if both A and B don't appeal to the Player... or if, perhaps, the Player likes A but not the WAY A is being expressed. Milquetoast option C works for anyone; thus, the Player is never forced to break character because of a lack of options.
Questions work well for this sort of neutral option. Tacit agreement and dead silence also serve, in certain sorts of stories--as a Player, I know what's going on in my silent character's head and the game won't contradict it.
The important thing is that I'm never forced to take a path that's outright WRONG for my character. Even if other characters misinterpret the Player Character's motivation, my character's inner life remains internally consistent.
"Neutral" responses aren't the only ways to go, though. Some responses are appropriate for any character because they're tied to the base character concept.
Here, for example (from @/seankmckeever's X-Files), the Player is a marine on a mission. The Player can respond abrasively to her partner's fear or look into the issue (out of compassion or genuine belief), but our fallthrough is actually the TOP response.
There's no version of our marine who would absolutely break character by picking "Stay calm and on mission." It's not blandly neutral; rather, it reinforces aspects of the character we can be sure of and gives the Player an option if nothing else works.
Different sorts of narratives will use different sorts of fallthroughs. A comedy might treat the option to say something funny as a fallthrough, of sorts--it's entertaining and will never violate the characterization the Player has created.
In a quest-driven RPG, a fallthrough response can often boil down to "How do I move to the next step of this quest?"
That said, the strongest moments in a narrative will often have no "fallthrough" response at all. They'll work by creating multiple responses that, by overlapping, cover all reasonable Player Character actions while still leaving room for the Player to ascribe motivation.
#cataloguing this before twitter explodes LOL#only thing i changed was the 'Player' pronouns because :-)#this was so fucking frustrating to do the tumblr post editor fucking sucks ass and kept breaking with every picture i added#i did add img descriptions... i did my best#also i cannot believe this is the guy that wrote the rogue one novelization#one of the best star wars books hands down#umm anyways#writing#interactive fiction
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I won't ever stop laughing at how sweet lance and lyra's interaction with ethan is... and then there's silver lmaooo 😭🤚 his seiyuu (yuki ono) nails this line!!! 🤣💖
For context, here' their translated lines with ethan:
Lance: with ethan, I can go all out!
Lyra: with ethan, no matter who the opponent is, I won't get scared!
Silver: ethan, you're coming with me!
#i looove how both lance and lyra starts with “hibiki-kun to nara” 🥺💖 it makes their interaction all the more endearing to me huhu#and then silver's dragging ethan without giving him a chance to say no 🤣🤣🤣 their voice lines when they win their victory is HILARIOUS too#once again saying that masters did a good job for the johto gang + especially hbslv... i can't wait for the day where they'll finally write#about silver beating gio's ass for good and him eventually battling with ethan (hopefully during ethan's nc event)... 🥺🥺🥺🤲🤲🤲#pleeeease i miss the johto gang so bad. can we get another event with them 😭#pokemon#rival silver#trainer lyra#trainer ethan#champion lance#preciousmetalshipping#huntershipping#pokemon masters ex#pokemas#pmex#johto#pasio#ethan x silver
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From Venom vol 3 issue #150
#venom#venom comics#marvel#marvel comics#eddie brock#venom vol 3#venom-ass-daily#eddie brock ass today#this story arc surrounding eddie and the symbiotes relationship and the way they interact with the priest and what he says to them and stuff#its so good#like the symbiote says they were bonded in a church like marriage#eddies ex (ish) catholicism is brought up#the toxicity of the venom relationship is explored and challenged#this arc with the priest ends in an issue from the symbiotes perspective#its all so good#like venom is about sin and guilt and denial and codependent relationships and fun violencd and gay sex and silly antics#and i feel like mike costa understood all of that the most out of any venom writer#thats just me though#anyway why did they make his ass so big in this serious panel
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Girl help I wish to travel to different dimensions just to watch a movie/show I really like a little to the left
#years of dreaming on it#OR WHEN A SHOW IS CANCELLED LIKE FUCK YOU#give me me ending even if i have to rip it out if the multiverse hands#but sometimes i just wanna see more of characters interacting together just give me uncut 50 hours version of them#rn it's#deadpool and wolverine#and i wanna know#final space#ending already#and a better#supernatural#ending. and my cancelled gems like#infinity train#inside job#the midnight gospel#lego monkie kid#BUT FRAME MY FRAME FLYING BARK I MISS YOU SO MUCH BBY PLEASE COME HOME wb did a good job but my obsessed ass want eye candy lego animation#our flag means death#I WOULD GIVE MY BLOOD FOR THAT SEASON 3 THEY WERE SO STUPID AND UNFAIR TO CHANCEL IT#rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles#BELOVED BELOVED BELOVED come backkk mm and you can coexist#oh and let's not forget. what the world would look like if the trollhunters movie didn't SUCK ASS horrible movie -7383/10 DELETE#i can go on all day i have been done wrong by many cancelled shows😭#neh what's up with everyone doing multiverse🙄 don't they know i was making these stuff up since ehh before spiderverse came out forsure🙄🙄#/j#but I really didnit was like my go to plot for falling asleep i hade self insert lore and universal police and empty space and cool shit
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(NON CANON)
i have no excuses for this im sorry
#sfw interaction only#sfw agere#fandom agere#horrorbrew#mario's madness#mario madness#mario exe#mr sys#dj hallyboo#yes i unironically draw this stuff how did you know#also fite me it's harmless ass art
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its so upsetting how literally everyone is always like ohhh paldean sandwiches are so bad look at this shitt!!! and then you look at the photo and its like. this is clearly someone trying to make the worst sandwich possible. this is clearly someone trying to make the worst sandwich possible. this is clearly someone trying to make the worst sandwich possible. this one was posted by someone superstitious about meal powers trying to get certain results. this is clearly someone trying to make the worst sandwich possible.
like idk how to tell you this but the shitty sandwiches paldea has is like mostly just either superstitious people or people specifically trying to freak you out. if you go to an actual sandwich shop or like are going on a picnic with an actual paldean you will be making a normal ass sandwich. its just at this point being a sandwich freak is funny so people keep posting stupid sandwiches specifically so you guys show how stupid you are when you genuinely think that we make our food like that lol. i even saw someone genuinely ask why paldeans ONLY eat sandwiches lol. we have other food like theres a ton of resteraunts if you just walk around any of the cities, fuck one of our gym leaders is FAMOUS for his restaurant which i dont think serves any sandwiches and another battles people in a different restaurant that i dont think has sandwiches either lol
like we have normal food. we have normal sandwiches. i promise. if you genuinely believe we dont then i am concerned for you
#maple moment#pkmn irl#pokeblogging#rotomblr#//me when i see people genuienly having it be a thing in their canon that paldea only has bad sandwiches#//like theres several ingame shops that sell normal sandwiches and also non-sandwich food lol#//like genuinely acting like the player made horrid sandwiches are just the only food in paldea when thats just straight up not canon at al#//its such a nothing thing to be pissed about but it does (im so normal and did not interact with that post when it was being passed around#//(because im a normal person who knows how to look away from things i do not like when it does not hurt me or anyone else)#//(wanted to make that clear unless someone thought i was being like. an ass. i may be a hater but im a hater in private. usually)
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Guys. Guys Ben Drowned's canon last name isn't actually Lawman
I've known this for a while, and more I think about it, the more it makes me feel like I should say something 😭
It was a misconception that started with an older version of Ben's page on the Jadusable Wiki. (It was never used for any non-ARG version of Ben prior to this.) I remember spotting Lawman being used as Ben's last name around 2016-2018 or so, and it has been edited out of his page since 2020. (It was on the page they have for the dead child rather than the Network/entity. I think it might've happened before they moved off Fandom wiki, because I think I remember seeing comments and their new wiki doesn't have those).
During the second arc (2011-2012), Jadusable mailed some bonus material to people who donated to him. One of these bonus materials was a section from a newspaper, which describes the murder-suicide of two members of the Lawman family along with their son, with some tampering to the article that appears to have been done by BEN.
You can zoom into the image and read it, or check out it's page on the wiki here (which I highly recommend as it has some added information, like what all the censored words are.) It's a very interesting piece of lore that's fun to analyze--however, I wouldn't recommend reading it if you're super squeamish or sensitive to graphic details related to death. (The method of the killing itself isn't mentioned.)
While this seems to be about Ben on the surface, it's actually not. The only way we can tell is by the date of the newspaper: In the column to the left of the "Spring Is In The Air!" paragraph, the year 2011 is mentioned, but we know that Ben died on 4/23/2004. The wording of the Lawman event feels recent (as if they're talking about an event a few months prior), when Ben's death would've been far gone by now.
With what's likely BEN tampering on the top right (where they creatively use block-out poetry to say "You shouldn't have done that," among many other things) combined with the mention of someone's son dying, it makes a ton of sense that the wiki editors assumed that Ben is a member of this Lawman family that appears here. At some point, screenshots of the wiki ended up being circulated and the larger Creepypasta fandom accepted Lawman as being Ben's "real" last name.
Lawman is actually the last name of a different (and much less relevant) character, Tyler, who appears briefly in the first and third arcs. It's not entirely clear what happened to him or his family, and I think the Newspaper Article is intended to be fun bonus material for Jadusable's donators rather than something that's meant to supply important information about the ARG characters--something like Ben's last name would be crucial for puzzles and passwords, and would give the 50 donators who received the article an unfair advantage (and Jadusable isn't the type of creator who'd be okay with that). Regardless, it carries some interesting implications about the Behavioral Event Network, and Matt's initials are also here for some reason. It's probably one of the most head-spinning materials in the whole game.
#ben drowned#benjamin lawman#ben lawman#ben drowned arg#This is like 35% of why I didnt play in 2020 btw there was like a 2 month period where I thought the Moon Children just merced Ben's dad#I'm sorry if this post ends up being someone's introduction to the ARG because I don't know what the fuck is going on here either#creepypasta#matt hubris#jadusable#jeff the killer#lost silver#slenderman#LIKE IVE KNOWN ABOUT THIS FOR YEARS AND IM STILL LIKE??? DID EVENT NETWORK DO THIS????? WHY IS MATT THERE????? WHAT#The time where the 'BEN makes people kts' headcanon became real for 2.5 seconds#I think Matt is here because BEN has a history of just saying the most cryptic shit about Matt specifically#People hc them as friends but I legitimately think they hate his ass#because why were they on that 'YOURTURN MATT' in arc 1 when he hasnt even had his character introduction yet. Diabolical#Ik theres that part in arc 2 where Matt is like 'I dont know what happened to my dear friend Ben... He ran away :(' but then BEN is like#'Why are you lying 🤥🤥🤥'#Lowkey thats a whole other post but also the alternative is that Matt is in the Network which doesn't make sense because Network and Matt#literally interact as separate entities throughout the entire story
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Lady Lesso: Hey so I just think I should warn you now that you're like. back from being dead and all that but uh I know you want to appoint my son as one of the deans and I wanted you to know that he's probably not the best fit for the it given he keep trying to actually kill me and I'm not sure you want a violent sadist teaching students?? I'm not even sure he knows how to write Rafal, already wearing the I'm Not The Stepdad I'm The Dad That Stepped Up shirt: what
#obligatory dj contextualisation in the tags:#No I do not think this is 100% Rafal canon. Truth be told I don't even remember how he and Aric interact in book 3 like at all#(if anyone has any more knowledge about that PLEASE tell me)#I don't even think we like. ever learn how Aric became the Dean? How the hell did he manage that#got the title of LORD and everything#as much as i hate the guy and his character in books 2+3. funny as HELL of him. rafals everywhere are NOT safe from this guy#No i will not reread book 2 OR book 3 anytime soon. yes it is his fault#sge#tsfgae#school for good and evil#the school for good and evil#sfgae#aricposting#do not like how much I've used that tag lately#also a Gentle Reminder that he co-designed those cunty ass book 3 uniforms. I know what you are. what do you MEAN Tedros didn't know#a concerning amount of my Actual Real Life Friends follow me now. so uh. hey girls
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Maaannn, compared to Kyoshi’s novels on Kyoshi and Rangi interactions are way more then Yangchen novels on Yangchen and Kavik. For them it’s like bread crumbs😭😭
Man y’all, I’m loving the darn crumbs, Kavik being a massive dork and being bright red over Yangchen. And I LOVE Kyoshi and Rangi being absolute stinkers to each other with kisses and soft hugs, THEY ARE THE WHOLE CAKE IMO.
Basically me over Yangchen Kavik = OH YIIISS CRUMBS!
Basically me over Kyoshi Rangi = SWEET HEAVENS A WHOLE AHH CAKE.
#I LOVE THEM ALL OK.#it’s just their novels are completely different!!!#and different expressions!!#not to mention Kavik DID hurt Yangchens trust MASSIVELY. why their interactions are small and teasing#but I adore Kyoshi and Rangis love very much. they are soft and very flirty on Rangis behalf.#Kyoshi always keeling over for Rangi in a heartbeat 🥺💚#CURSE MY BI ASS. I LOVE THEM. LOVE THEM ALL
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Disregard that last post, OP's definitely mad that Bulla is treated like a toddler and Trunks is treated like a teenager askljda
#I could not for the LIFE of me figure out which child Vegeta is out here favoring#but doting on his little princess IS good and true and canon and Trunks is a little too old for that by the time she's around#and I did not get through the first arc of GT because. You know why we've talked about Toei's choices#So all I have is the end of Z where he makes Trunks participate in the tournament#and Super's manga in which he's not shown interacting with either of them much but he brags about Trunks and is thrilled to meet Bulla#like Geets loves his kids idk who's out here writing him “”“hating”“” on Trunks I know people (Toriyama) are out here writing him#treating Trunks like a spoiled teenaged slacker which he is and we love that for him#because he didn't have to be a soldier like his dad and his future counterpart had to be. He just got to be a rich kid with weird parents#and he turned out like you'd expect alskdjaskj he's a good boy he's just Bored#like even in terms of GT when Bulla's a teenager -- Trunks is a Grown Ass Man and Vegeta's had 20+ years of experience as a parent#Bulla's childhood is going to be better because Vegeta chose to start getting better For Trunks#Idk man kjdalks the discourse is silly the dISCOURSE IS SILLY
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