#the way she acts in the durge playthrough

[perplexingly]

My best friend Jaheira 🥹

[kalashtars]

astarion / shadowheart / minthara really is the bad decisions crew. you make them do the most horrific shit and the others are behind the corner going "😏👍"

[maranull]

I've been so burned-out with modding Skyrim back in the day that I'm now very reluctant to do any modding whatsoever.

Having said that, Minthara is really pushing me to attempt to mod bg3 so I can recruit her without sacrificing all the Tieflings.

Damn you, Larian. I didn't want to touch nexus ever again. >:/

[helpimstuckinafandom]

I....... I finished bg3.......

[illogicalvulcans]

got my golden dice!

[vspin]

On Act 3 and the lack of companion reactivity and dialogue.

So, I officially hit 400 hours on BG3 yesterday (no lifing it lmao) and I've been thinking about some things I wish Larian would improve or wish that they had implemented. A big thing that comes to mind is how much companion reactivity and dialogue abruptly stops in Act 3.

Act 1 really shines with companion reactivity. They always have something to say to the MC, to NPCs, or even to each other! I love the interaction after you use your ilithid powers for the first time and it's a 4 way conversation between everyone.

Then we get to Act 3 and there's such huge drop-off. Some big offenses:

Very little reaction to quests and locations. When I killed Raphael I only got comments from Astarion and Gale! Seriously?? We just survived a trip to the Hells! This happens with multiple quests

Blank faces when Durge is killed by Bhaal.

Camp is lifeless. Everyone just stands in front of their bed, There are no interactions.

In my playthrough, the Emporer admitted to my Tav he was manipulating her and didn't really care. It was bummer I couldn't talk to the other tadpole gang about it.

I remember coming across a Druid in the city. He was trying to heal a tree. So I went back and grabbed Halsin because he was complaining no one in the city cared about nature or balance. So I thought surely, he would have an interaction here! Nope, nothing!

As soon as you finish a companion's personal quest that is basically the end of your interactions with them; even if you romance them.

What I'd like to see: (Disclaimer: Just my opinions. I have no expectation of any of this being added to the game)

More camp interaction between companions. Jahiera and Minsc had a great example of this. Let there be a quick cutscene of Minsc and Halsin arm wrestling. Shadowheart, Karlach, and Astarion drinking wine. Anything. DA:I did a great job at this. It seemed like anytime I approached someone for dialogue they were in the middle of an interaction with someone else. Or events like the card game. It brought a lot of life into the party.

More random city encounters. They did a good job with Karlach; she has interactions with the steel watcher and her friend Fitz. Would have been cool to have some of those with Wyll, maybe he meets another noble or a flaming fist and has to deal with their shock of seeing him as a devil. Or with Gale in Sorcerous Sundries (he is a famous wizard after all!). Astarion mentions he needs to keep a low profile in the taverns; what if someone called him out!

More reactions to story events.

Expand on romances a bit more. We don't need it to be a dating sim but if you finish your LI's quest early on get used to just asking for small pecks and that's it. I would like to see more romance-specific dialogue for quest reactions.

And Finally:

We needed all companions at the final battle. Everyone should have been at the main keep before confronting the brain. You should have had your final conversations with them before you all potentially die in battle. DA:O style. A passionate kiss with your LI (not a tiny little peck lmao). This was a huge exclusion.

Anyway, these are my thoughts on the matter. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[alicelufenia]

I've been struggling to write a rp helper for those who want to recruit Minthara the proper way on their next playthrough, but struggle with being required to raid the grove. There's going the grove civil war route (which at least starts with you doing what Zevlor asks you to do!), but that doesn't necessarily give you a reason to join Minthara to mop them up. But @spiderwarden recently summed up the perfect one-size-fits-all Raid The Grove Tip

Just play a drow. Especially a male drow, but even if you don't it's not going to change why this is the perfect choice.

Think about it; what does a drow tav/durge owe the grove? Zevlor has to tell everyone not to hate crime you, the only one who's properly grateful to you is Kagha, who the game won't even let you properly side with! Seriously why can't you side with Kagha after exposing the shadow druid conspiracy?? That place sucks, and Zevlor COULD have let you escort their caravan as they actually headed out on the road (you could even offer your many supplies you rummaged from crates and barrels for the journey), but instead, he'd rather send you to go assassinate the generals in the goblin army, the same one that captured the Archdruid AND slew or captured half the adventuring party that was accompanying him. What did you have no faith in those guys, but oh, I'm different surely?

And if you offer to take care of Kagha, he feigns a moral quandry (whatever as one oathbreaker paladin to another I can tell him he's full of shit on that one) but agrees we're in a better position to deal with her since she's allowed us to get close. And if you follow through directly with that (who has time to search around for conspiracies when you have a MIND FLAYER TADPOLE to deal with? Why are you even still here??) the druids instantly start slaughtering all the civilians Zevlor was trying to protect! Good thing you tried to help I guess.

At least Nettie has the idea to remind you that they might mistake you for one of them with your tadpole infection, but she also tries to poison you, and with my first drow tav she asked me to hold out my hand, and then SLASHED me with the poisoned thistle with a smile on her face. She did that to a DROW?? The suicidal audacity of that bitch!

And then, just past two bridges is the goblin camp.

Immediately upon approaching these little bastards hop to it like "Drow comin through!" and that's it for customs. They'll scrape and bow and never look you in the eye as they ask if you'd like a foot rub and manicure, m'liege! Finally someone on the surface who knows how to give proper respect to their betters! And they'll immediately tell you about the drow commander. Oh word, another drow? No wonder these goblins know how to act right. Already your day is going about 100000% better than when you first spied the emerald grove. Even after the mind blast the Absolute gives you as you walk in the entrance, that's quickly solved by the artifact that darthiir was clutching like a spider guards her eggs. Normally you'd slice her throat and nick such a clearly valuable and important item first chance you got, but she's been useful enough. Better to keep her close for now.

As the goblins wither at your gaze, you head straight for this "Minthara" everyone has been talking about. And then you do your best impression of someone who isn't about to shit and piss themselves because their drow commander is none other than a honest-to-Lolth BAENRE. She doesn't have to introduce herself for you to recognize that tattoo on her neck; she must be one of those zealots who are always accompanying priestesses and slaughtering heretics in the streets. So what's a paladin of Lolth doing serving this false god of an Absolute?

Ice enters your mind, and you understand why; she's just like you, a tadpole in her brain, but she doesn't seem to know it. And she is thrilled to see you, and immediately offers an alliance. This couldn't be more perfect for you. Already you've been reluctantly willing to take on a half-breed cleric, an abomination from the astral sea who's at least good with a sword and is the only one who knows anything useful about your infection, a vampire boytoy, and even a dark-damned Wizard.

Of course you'll jump at this opportunity to have such a powerful ally as Minthara on your side! No one at the grove ever lifted a finger for you, as far as you're concerned this is the first friendly settlement you've come across, and unlike Zevlor, Minthara is willing to get her hands dirty right along side you. Let the raid begin, commander!

And now you're ready to roll up a drow tav on your next playthrough and see ALL the content the best character in the game has to offer.

I'll even close with a teeny tiney extra tip, to remember me by as you move forward.

You don't actually have to play evil-for-evil's-sake.

You were raised to be pragmatic and ambitious. Unless you're playing the most hardline-rebel-drow-fanboying-over-Drizzt ever, Minthara will be your best and most understanding ally. Beyond that, not a lot of other cartoonishly evil options really work for you unless you decide they do. Last Light inn is valuable as a safe space in the shadow curse, and you'll want to defend Isobel for that alone. Posing as a True Soul to enter Moonrise isn't very morally complicated; Jaheira will even encourage you to do exactly that! And by the time you reach the Gauntlet of Shar, you probably know what your character will do having gotten to know Shadowheart, rather than thinking "do I pick the good or the evil option".

Thanks for reading, and happy raiding everyone!

[moghedien]

I hadn't really considered it until now, but Jaheira's reaction if you confront her about Isobel being Ketheric's daughter is such good foreshadowing to her relationship with a redeemed durge

like the second you try to bring up the speculation to her parentage, she shuts down any possibility of it by telling you outright that she is in fact Ketheric's daughter and she hasn't told you before because 1) it isn't her story and 2) it doesn't matter. she doesn't let you speculate on whether Isobel can be trusted or not and makes it clear that she is not holding Isobel's parentage against her. Isobel showed up offering help when she didn't have to do, so Jaheria trusts her. Nothing else matters.

And compare this to her reactions to a good durge in Act 3 when she’s a companion. Durge or not, if you offer aid to her in her quest without really hesitating, she’ll comment in sort of stunned appreciation/admiration that you’d help just because she asked you to and for no reason at all. In my previous durge playthrough this happened actually right before I long rested and got the Bhaalspawn reveal and then Jaheira confronting me about it so it was like thematically great

But at the point where you’ve discovered youre bhaalspawn and Jaheira confronts you in the middle of the night about it, you’ve already helped her and all of the people trapped in the shadow cursed lands. You’ve saved the shadow cursed lands. If you've done all the typical good person thing, you've done more than that. You’ve saved Aylin. You’ve saved the tieflings and the gnomes captive in Moonrise. Jaheira has seen you do all of this, and sure some of it you would have had to do out of necessity, but not all of it. You didn’t need to save everyone. You didn’t need to go out of your way to help people. But you did, and Jaheira saw you do it and THEN she found out you were bhaalspawn

And when she confronts you about it, she is the first person that really offers you any kind of hope that you can be good person at the end of this. She can see that you’re already being a good person.

And she’s the first person that doesn’t just give you answers to what curse has been plaguing you since you woke up, but she’s the first person that gives you evidence that you can be free from it and an idea of what you need to do.

Depending on the timing of how these events trigger, she’s probably the first one who knows what you are and the horror of what that means, and she makes a point of showing that any fear of you isn't justified. And she will go out of her way to help you.

Ketheric attacked her people to get his daughter under his control. Bhaal is doing the same with durge. In both cases, sure, Jaheira needed Isobel to protect the Inn and she needs durge to end the Absolute. But she said with Isobel, she chooses to trust, not just because she has no other choice.

Isobel held out her hand and Jaheira chose to take it. The same applies to durge now, but its more obvious with durge that Jaheira is doing her best to help through whatever issues they have with being Bhaalspawn and what that means. You offered your hand and she took it, but holding hands goes both ways

[foster-ya]

bg3 romance woes

just got the scene with talking to Gale under the night sky in act 2 (beautiful scenery btw) and GOD. HOW in the HELLS am I supposed to romance anyone BUT him now??!

On the other hand, I want to romance Astarion and as much as I CAN NOT for the life of me find it easy to reject Gale, hurting Astarion in any way, shape or form would immediately reduce me to a pathetic puddle of tears.

WHY can I not romance both of them UGGHHH this is torture.

not to mention the fact that I have the hots for like EVERY romancable AND unromancable npc in this GODDAMN game.

like Lae’zel (she’s so endearing for some reason what the hell??), KARLACH oh my GOD (Shadowheart knows what’s up, I NEED her to carry me and OMG she calls herself Mama K I CAN’T), Wyll ugggghh (he’s underrated and I WON’T stand for it) Shadowheart (fuck, god’s favorite emo princess I love her so muchhhh). That motherfucker HALSIN (what a HUNK of an elf they had NO RIGHT making him so glorious) even Minthara who I finally got in Act 2 now.

and when it comes to the UNROMANCABLE people. Don't even get me STARTED. Raphael you god damn majestic asshole. Haarlep (I’d feed him, that’s all I’ll say about the matter), Alfira (the REAL reason why I’ll never do a Durge playthrough, I CAN NOT ever lay a finger on her). Larkrissa (I love her and Alfira plus them TOGETHER so fucking much), ROLAN (stupid prickly wizard), Dammon (he’s just SO everything, don’t make me explain, I’ll go on and on for hours)

this game is a bisexual NIGHTMARE and on one hand I LIVE for it, on the other, I’d like to sue

[aelizel]

so not only is romancing astarion as durge twice as entertaining as romancing him as tav, but the game decided to throw in a couple extra gems for my second playthrough, those being;

it took forever for bite night/the reveal to happen bc it's like every long rest cutscene you can get in act one shouldered its way to the front of the line and while it was frustrating trying to get it to happen, everything that he says becomes so much funnier while he's keeping up his "lil ol me? i'm just a magistrate nothing weird about me" routine

my durge reached the approval needed for him to proposition you immediately after receiving Loviatar's blessing, so he watched her get whipped by the bdsm priest, the exclamation point appeared over his head, then he hits her with the "Darling! i was just thinking about you~" as she's putting her armor back on lmaooooo

[lunarreverb]

Just finished the silliest BG3 run that was.... not really a speedrun, but a mess-around solo run to see what happens if you effectively skip Act 1 and 2 (to the extent possible) and recruit nobody. Here's Bunnie the gnome; she's quick like a bunny!

Some of the most interesting things I found under the cut!

If you immediately jog over from the Nautiloid to the mountain pass area, Shadowheart will catch up to you and try to party up.

You can reject her company, of course; if you do, the artefact just appears in your inventory later after this brief cutscene saying ''you got the plot device.' The Emperor never addresses this at all but I have to assume it just looked at the both of you liked your main character energy better.

(For her part, Shadowheart will hang out indefinitely in front of the path to the mountain pass, insisting that you need her to come with you. She never seems to realize that the artefact ditched her, but seems to have the 'shielded' effect on her for as long as you can still go back to that area to check on her, so idk. I assume she dies/ceremorphosizes at some point after you leave the shadow cursed lands.)

If you leave for the mountain pass without encountering Raphael, he just shows up in your camp, and you do NOT have a choice to go to bed without speaking to him, lol.

What happens to Lae'zel is SUPER interesting. If you don't encounter her in the cage outside of the grove, the game gives you a second chance by setting her outside of the monastery, wandering around.

If you don't join her there, either, you will find her at the entrance of the Shadow-Cursed lands, extremely dead. I imagine this is just the game's way of making sure you see she's dead, but I would have assumed for sure that without player intervention she would've died in the zaith'isk? I wonder what sequence of events is implied by this? Maybe she broke out of the zaith'isk on her own, escaped the creche, but had nobody to warn her that she needed a torch in the Shadow-Cursed lands? Maybe the gith sent her on an errand before they let her have a turn in the cleansing machine? Unclear!

Your dream guardian comments that it's impressed by your efficiency by skipping over the grove entirely:

This is different from what it says if you actively durge the grove, where it insinuates that you did what you did to infiltrate the cult and asks whether or not you have regrets about that.

If you don't go to Last Light Inn at all, you can meet Jaheira for the first time at the bridge to Moonrise tower. She does NOT react well if you answer her question by saying "I'm busy, get out of the way"; this will aggro the Harpers (understandably). I ultimately decided to sneak around the back and I didn't canonically meet her for the first time until after defeating Ketheric. She will automatically join your camp for the one night on the way to Baldur's Gate, but she will leave forever (leaving you a letter saying "bye") once you get to the Lower City if you tell her at Moonrise you don't want her in your party.

She does not survive the events of the game if you do not let her join your party, it seems. (I did not pursue the Minsc storyline and I do not know if it's possible to prevent this outcome that way.)

This next bit is REALLY wild; in all of my other playthroughs, I don't think I ever tried defeating Gortash before I disabled the Steel Watch. You can defeat Gortash at his inauguration, and the Absolute will immediately be your bestie about it and will helpfully murder any of the witnesses (including Ulder Ravengard, I think; I took care not to kill him but he vanished anyway.)

The next thing that happens doesn't actually make sense but is interesting nevertheless. Once Gortash is dead, the Steel Foundry is automatically blown up, and the Absolute speaks encouragingly to the player through the Steel Watchers:

I'm actually stumped about how the Absolute can control the Steel Watchers without the corresponding tadpoled brains in the Foundry (which I have to assume got crushed in the rubble?) Oh well. In any case, the Steel Watchers are friendly and will even be allied with you if you get into any scuffles with the Fist, until you kill Orin. After you kill Orin, every Steel Watcher is immediately hostile AND will sic the Fist on you, too.

(Funny story, I actually managed to down one of the Watchers next to the Steel Watch fan group on the north end of Wyrm's Crossing and uh. The Watcher blew up one of the fanboys. Oops. RIP Trinigan Gazotts.)

I kinda want to write a whole post about just this, but Shadowheart's parents are still put up on display in the House of Grief basement in spite of the fact that she is almost certainly (?!) dead and/or a mindflayer by this point:

You can talk to them but you cannot help them in any way. I'm aware that this is just a tease for Shadowheart's plot, but I want to nitpick this so bad. The Sharrans have regular prison cells in the building; what is the point of hanging up these two on the Spencer's Gifts lights indefinitely? Whatever bummer vibes Shar is getting off of them can not be enough to pay for their magical upkeep. Do the Sharrans have to take them down at mealtimes, or are they fed with sandwiches on sticks, or...?

The love test at the circus is NOT interesting; the dryad assumes that you are in love even if you are forever alone and gives her usual sales pitch about bringing the one you love to her.

If you didn't save Wulbren or Barcus, the entrance to the Ironhand Gnomes' cave is just blocked off.

Astarion's unfortunate end if you don't recruit him has been covered in great detail by other posts, but I will remark that it is funny to kill Cazador yourself as a gnome because you have to hop up to stab him. It's also very, very funny to see Cazador explain his whole evil plot to you, random gnome woman who just showed up, if Astarion isn't around. This man is desperate for somebody to think he's cool, so I guess he'll settle for attention from the cattle if he's gotta.

Volo still shows up tied to that trolley cart by the foundry, but there's no angry mob around him.

If you haven't encountered the inquisitor at the creche, or the avatar of Vlaakith in the shadow cursed land, they both show up in the Elfsong's basement

There is no hag plot if you did not encounter Ethel. The captain at the Blushing Mermaid is just as she seems, there's no hag lair, and Vanra and her mother want nothing to do with you. There's no hag support group; that house has a group of random hostile thugs in it instead (with a tenuous tie-in to Ninefinger's Guild).

In Act 3, Raphael will totally say "listen here you little shit" if you hassled him outside of the mausoleum in Act 2 by, oh, I don't know, casting Silence on him? (after which he does NOT give you the Yurgir quest, he just leaves).

Bluurg and Omeluum do not show up at the Society of Brilliance's lodge if you did not meet them in the underdark in Act One, but there is a letter indicating that they will show up later. I checked, and Omeluum is also not in the Iron Throne.

Nothing funny or new happened with Orin. I threw her in a pit. BUT worth mentioning? You can skip the entire Bhaalist powerword kill trial if you just send one invisible party member through the area and just find the warppoint near the temple afterward. You're welcome.

If you get to the epilogue alone, Milil will comment that he expected more guests, but Withers will speak as if multiple people are there no matter what

Also, if you are a lonely little mindflayer, this has no effect on the refreshments offered at the epilogue party. Mindflayers can drink alcohol, apparently, but obviously nobody is here to eat all the food Withers put out. WTF, pee paw.

And I think that's mostly all the was interesting or different in this run. It was a fun challenge!

[y-rhywbeth2]

So glancing between the original games and the third - again - and thinking about the difference between the feral and Chosen bad endings and how I'm going to interpret them in my own canon. BG3 lore is irrelevant to me from now on I'm entering the phase where I'm assimilating my playthrough into my own Realms canon.

Also, Durge appears to be soulless. I am aware of the way the game treats Durge as though they have a soul, but BG3 makes strange choices where lore doesn't match up all the damn time. Astarion is clinically dead but the rest mechanics still need food. BG3 talks like Wyll is a devil, and they definitely don't have mortal souls. Dark Urge identity crises and complicated relationship with personhood, how I love thee.

Major BG2 spoilers, so I'll put that under a cut just in case anybody would like to play those games blind.

I noticed this a while back, but Durge's situation is reminiscent of a soulless Bhaalspawn. When their soul - the portion of them that is "them" and not entirely Bhaal - is removed they start displaying the same symptoms and slipping into what is basically the feral ending, judging by Imoen's behaviour:

"Who-who... who is that? Keep back... Keep back! [...] Who is Imoen? I don't know that name. I don't know that name! She's not here! [...] Get away from me! I'll... I'll kill you! I'll rip your eyes from your filthy faces! Do not tempt my wrath! Do not... I... she's not here. I do not know that... name. [...] I see... yes... I see... She's not here... Someone else will come..."

We have dizzy spells and risks of blackouts (otherwise known as Bhaal threatening to take over):

"Your step falters, your vision spins, and you feel something is very wrong. For an instant you are conscious of nothing but the rushing of your blood."

Bhaal literally just assuming direct control rather than flooding you with the urge to murder. Also pain caused by said attempt at taking control:

"A shock of pain passes through your body, and you feel you mind slipping away, forced aside by the darkness within." - "Your blood cools, and mind and body are reunited under your control. Your will had faltered, and the essence of Bhaal was there to take advantage. The void where your soul once was overflowed with murderous fury, the mark of a deity that no longer exists. The taint of Bhaal has affected you differently than Imoen, reacting with your strength of will. You will eventually lose yourself unless your stolen soul is restored. A fate, as they say, worse than death." - "The madness fades, and the essence retreats, but if this continues you will lose not only yourself , but also everything you hold dear. The uncertainty of your condition has obviously worried those you travel with. The quest is treacherous enough without having to worry about what you might do."

Most Bhaalspawn have mortal lineage and were left to develop their own identities until they hit adulthood and Bhaal decided it was time to start pushing them into killing each other as part of the resurrection plan. Their souls are explicitly divine in nature, but they had time and freedom to develop those souls. Each demigod is a potential fledgling god.

The soul and the conscious mind aren't the same thing, so personality and decision making can continue but the emotions and personhood are... not quite there, only the echoes of it. It's been compared to wearing a mask and acting out a part in a play, rather than actually living as that person.

Durge it seems was engineered from the very beginning so that they would never have that chance. Created directly from Bhaal, with no other parent (let alone a mortal one) to dilute him; Bhaal started forcing their hand to kill from a far younger age (before puberty) rather than waiting for them to reach adulthood. and Sceleritas was following them closely ensuring that people would be around to have "accidents", like Alfira.

But it's also notable that Bhaal doesn't just want a puppet, he needs a Bhaalspawn with the drive and power to be his avatar. He somehow needs Durge blindly loyal and lacking in independence but also in possession of "strength of will" to be worthy of/able to house and use his power.

It seems that Durge does not have a soul the way their siblings do, all they have to resist Bhaal with is their mind and sheer willpower. If they disappoint Bhaal then he will simply assume control - something he can do any time he likes. Over the course of BG3 they start developing something like their own soul - judging by the way Bhaal and Sceleritas are still in touch and seemingly testing them, I can only assume this is actually according to plan; Durge is supposed to cultivate a spark of their own divine soul over the journey (and also get tadpoled and help Bhaal take over the Netherbrain and thralls through them, as Sceleritas kind of mentions).

If they fail then Bhaal goes for the feral ending; they go into the "Imoen" category where they're not worthy of his attention and he just uses Durge as a puppet.

Mystra can't force mortals to become her Chosen, they must consent, so possibly that rule applies to Bhaal too? I don't know, but it explains why Bhaal needs them to accept. If they resist then they're clearly strong enough to be worthy but wilful enough that Bhaal decides the risk of that spark of a soul is too great a risk to him and his plans and tries to destroy it but fails because it's too late, and Jergal cuts this fledgling divine soul free.

If they accept becoming Chosen then they are agreeing to be imbued with a fragment of Bhaal's divine essence. Bhaal gets what he wants and merges it with another fragment of his divine essence, presumably setting the stage for him to become a full deity walking the face Toril through Durge's/his body. The fledgling spark of individual is lost in Bhaal when the two fuse; the threat of the resist ending isn't present, because that spark is gone, so if you defy him again he just takes over and we get the punishment ending.

[zoloteh-volossya]

I love your reblog on that Astarion post! What do you think is the best way to recruit Minthara while aiming for a more positive outcome for her? Personally, my favorite approach is "accidentally" destroying the grove by stealing the idol and then reluctantly aligning with Minthara. It feels like the character is acting out of confusion or desperation, not malice. This way, you still get that pivotal moment where she feels safe with your character and begins to break free from the Absolute. (and when you rescue her later she still hoped you would save her)

I'm basic - I personally prefer the knockout method. It's a pity that you miss the discussion after the sex scene and the romanced version of the conversation at Moonrise - it was a gifset of that conversation (see my pinned post) that grabbed me by the heart and dragged me into this fandom, after all.

But to me, it's important that Minthara isn't special. Her life isn't worth more than Alfira's or Dammon's or Mol's, ultimately. I personally care about her more, am more invested in her character, but struggle to justify the deaths of the refugees in the stories I want to tell. It's a different story, the act 1 scene, but to me the meat of the Minthmance happens once she gets her mind back so it's an acceptable loss.

(Of course, in my personal Mintharamance playthrough, I did commit Grovicide. My Dark Urge Krov was largely uninterested in getting involved in other people’s business, so I engineered the Worst Possible Grove Visit. She entered the grove, got robbed, didn’t step up for Arabella so she died, got poisoned by (then killed) Nettie, got arrested for trespassing in the kids’ hideout to get her stuff back, broke out, talked to Sazza and freed her, got the hell out of town, and then ended up murdering Alfira that night anyway. When Minthy told her to help raid it she was like, might as well, fuck that place, the only person I liked there is already dead by my hand.)

I think that triggering the Grove's violence via following Mol's request makes a lot of sense! It's definitely the way I'd go in a fic if I were writing a scenario where Tav/Durge romances Minthara in act 1.

In my fic ideas, I 'justify' the nonsense knockout option in different ways.

With my good bard Tav, she infiltrates the goblin camp for several days, slowly pitting Dror Razglin against Minthara (using Gut's death to stoke tensions between them). She was hoping to have the two sides fight it out and then have her team sweep in and clean up the survivors. However, all the goblins side with Dror. So then she just focuses on buffing and healing Minthara, figuring that the more goblins she kills the fewer the Tadfools will need to deal with. To her surprise, Minthara both wins and is genuinely grateful, tending to Tav's own wounds. In return for this unexpected kindness, she helps Minthara escape when 'adventurers' attack the camp, promising to distract them and then meet up with her at Moonrise later. (This fic idea began before the knockout method was added to the game, so you can tell I've been on my bullshit for a while.)

With my neutral ranger Tav, she doesn't infiltrate the camp at all. She sneaks into the camp via the other bridge, gets to high ground, and starts an outright assault. By the time Minthara is informed that the camp is under attack, everyone outside the shattered sanctum is dead. The bulk of the battle happens in the throne room, with all of the goblins and True Souls mounting a desperate defense against a two-pronged attack by Team Tadpole. They lose, but Minthara is able to overwhelm my Tav (mechanically much weaker than her) and make an escape, and the team is too exhausted to give chase.

Both of these have a very different dynamic with Minthy than a Tav/Durge who romanced her in act 1, of course. With my bard Tav, there's a preexisting connection, but also a betrayal - Minthara was used by this person, unknowingly danced on her strings. Regaining trust after that is a key plot point. With my ranger Tav, the arc is more one of coming to trust a former enemy (and dealing with the repercussions of becoming a drider, but that's unrelated.)

Thanks for the ask! That was... a very long answer. Hope you enjoyed it, at least.

[bananasfosterparent]

Recent Playthrough Updates #3

🍃🦌Enyana the Dryad

She's slowly getting through. Still stuck in Act 1 but steadily moving forward. Currently rescuing Halsin! Her romance with Gale is also going well so far uwu

I changed some details about her visually. Gave her pale yellow eyes that are more "human" just because Dryads seem to have glowy yellow eyes and I'm too lazy to find a mod to do that SO pale yellow "human" eyes it is! Lol plus this makes her easier to cosplay for my local Ren faire and get accurate

Also changed her hair and adjusted the colors!

🌑☠️Nordicai the (resist) Durge

Smoochie time! 🖤💜

Nordicai has been charmed by a pretty lady and doing what he can to enjoy their time together. He kissed Shadowheart and whatever else that lead to lol he also lied to her about his past because he simply can't remember it of course...but I think SH knows how that feels.

He's still trudging through Act 1 as well and just got the Necromancy of Thay.

He was also finally bitten by Astarion lol Nordi doesn't have Astarion in his party so when he met the Gur, he told Astarion who of course denies being a vampire spawn. But Nordi being Nordi... He believed it. Imagine his surprise when he wakes up to Astarion's fangs. He didn't let him bite but is sympathetic towards his hunger. He can understand that all too well.

Also I changed his horns so now they're like cool, glowy horns uwu

🌊🎻Silkina the Waveservant Bard

More smoochies!!

Silkina is learning to trust and finding herself in her budding relationship with Wyll. They kissed at the Tiefling party and now she's truly smitten. Can't wait to keep going!

She's defeated the goblins and is working her way through to the Underdark.

⛈️🖤 Efenity the Storm Sorcerer

Baby girl out here living her best life. Lmao not really...at least not yet.

But she is having fun! I've played her like 6 times now and it's like it gets more fun every time 🤣 she took Lady Esther's money upfront (with no intention of bringing her the egg). Usually she has the owl bear egg and gives her that and takes her money from that. But I forgot to get the owl bear egg so I had to try something new! I also had Astarion loot her. I discovered Cacophony this way and he stole it for Efe. It's now her canon weapon 🤣

[dispadaferisce]

Thoughts on The Dead Three / Chosen

(Referring to Durge as 'he' because they were a transmasc in my playthrough)

Finally finished BG3 as a murder hobo Dark Urge developing a (admittedly questionable) conscience and rejecting Bhaal. I made all my companions take the "right" path in their stories, mainly because we couldn't ALL go to prison and I had dibs on the criminal record.

And of course I killed Ketheric in Act II because that's kind of required, but I played the role in Act III. Durge was pissed to find out Orin double crossed him, and first and foremost on his mind was offing her and taking back what was his. I teamed up with Gortash because, at the time, his deal suited me.

And it's so funny to me the way that played out, because all through Act III Durge is learning more about himself, everybody's trying to kill him, but ultimately Gortash is the one dude who keeps his word. Even I wasn't going to do that.

Like...yeah he sucks, but I AM THE VILLAIN. Bane suckered that human-trafficked orphan into being his Chosen and doing some pretty gnarly stuff in his name--with the aim of ultimate rule and tyranny--but I STARTED IT. DURGE IS SO MUCH WORSE THAN GORTASH.

It's arguable that the entire BG3 plot was initiated by Bhaal to bring about the end of life. Myrkul and Bane were blinded by greed and potential power and all three probably each intended to backstab the other two, but Bhaal was primed and ready to actually follow through. His Chosen was a Bhaalspawn, shaped from his own flesh and literally unable to deny the call to murder. Durge might have put Ketheric and Gortash at (tentative) ease with his ability to control himself, but Durge only controlled himself because Bhaal allowed it. At some point, he was absolutely going to rip out their throats with his teeth and feel nothing while doing it. And if he did feel something for Gortash, all the more powerful a sacrifice to his father when he killed him.

And the only reason the world didn't end was because Orin legitimately gave him brain damage. Orin, who fell for the "I can control myself" bait just as badly as Ketheric and Gortash, who thought her bloodkin was going soft. Durge played the part so well, even the next in line for Bhaal's chosen--who knew the plan!--fell for it.

How can I tell Durge's self-control was fake? Well, if you accept Bhaal but destroy the Netherbrain, at the end of the game you basically have two choices: kill yourself, or fall under the unshakeable control of your godly father. Durge is a Bhaalspawn, with all the inescapable murderous urges that entails. He is not his own person, he's in control only as long as it suits Bhaal to let him be. Once that control is taken away, Durge hunts down the other heroes he called friends and assumedly murders them in a fade-to-black.

Orin should have killed him, but his act offended her so much she knifed a hole in his head and shoved a mind flayer tadpole into it. She probably knew how they were inserted, but she shoved it in there with the intent of having it eat his brain, like it was that too-soft personality she wanted to kill instead of his body.

There are various notes, comments, and books/journals throughout the game that tell us Durge suffered severe damage to his brain because of how the tadpole was inserted, and Kressa Bonedaughter describes to us a physically broken Bhaalspawn overtaken by his nature and lacking his other faculties. Just completely feral. And these are Ketheric's people, Myrkul's rather than Bhaal's, so they're not going to recognize him. Instead, Kressa spends a few weeks literally pulling out his insides to play with until her man gets jealous and sends Durge out on the next Nautiloid.

I do believe Durge was tadpoled on the Nautiloid, just like the opening sequence plays out. I think the original one ate his brain and got removed, but the second was inserted the correct way. And while it couldn't regrow the brain tissue that was destroyed by the first, the second tadpole probably formed enough psychic and cranial connections during its natural settling to kick Durge's higher brain functions back on again.

And so he starts out, chunks of his brain literally gone and his memory with them. But the urges are still there, because he's a Bhaalspawn and they go beyond his personality and thoughts.

So Durge, who has no idea who he really is (or who he really was behind the mask he put up for the sake of The Plan), now has to rely on what other people tell him about himself. The companions whose approval and disapproval guide the player's actions are in turn guiding his and literally creating Durge's new personality and moral compass.

Astarion is telling him that power is safety and should be taken whenever possible. Gale is telling him power also corrupts, and there are dangerous consequences to doing that. Karlach is telling him never to make a deal with the devil because you'll lose everything. Wyll is telling him sometimes, you need to make those deals so save everyone else--but be very careful if you do. Shadowheart is telling him secrets and darkness are a priceless armor. Lae'zel is telling him that while some of his actions may be considered 'bad,' if they were truly righteous he would not need to hide them.

Different players will do different things with those influences depending on whether they (and in turn, their Durge) likes the companion or not, just like in real life. Some give in to the urges, some fight them, some stumble along somewhere in the middle.

Some Durges will leave Act II with a firmly rooted sense of self, and who you used to be no longer matters. You're going to kill the bad guys on sight and save the day (or take over the world). That's a completely valid course to take.

But for those who still aren't sure, once you get to Act III, Gortash and Orin tell you who you REALLY are. Or at least, who they believe you are, based on the act you played for them before.

Sure, you're a Bhaalspawn, but your murder is controlled. You can be trusted to plot with, you're reasonable and open to the tenets of Myrkul and Bane. Gortash, in particular, liked you quite a bit, enough to be happy to see you when you show up at his coronation. Enough to throw in his lot with you within ten seconds of seeing your face. He may not trust Bhaal, but he trusts you.

He trusted you enough to follow you into Hell to rob a devil. He trusted you enough to let you walk into his coronation, even knowing his steel watchers couldn't do jack shit against the man who KILLED THE PHYSICAL MANIFESTATION OF THE GOD MYRKUL.

Gortash is evil, but he's mortal evil. He has visions of a golden age throughout Faerun, one he's going to usher in by force because people can't be trusted to not ruin it. Gortash wants to rule, just like all the other despots in history. He wants to be a tyrant, to have absolute power through fear and violence.

(An absolute power, by the way, that there is no reason to believe he does not honestly want to share with Durge. If you don't kill Gortash and go with him to confront the brain, he's pretty much faithful to his word right up until his end. He goes with you, alone, and trusts you to hold up your part of the bargain.)

But you. Holy shit. You, the Dark Urge, are so much worse. It really hits when you finally visit the Temple of Bhaal to fight Orin.

Ketheric is a king in his castle, serving dark gods in the shadow-cursed lands for his own personal ends (resurrecting his daughter). Gortash is a black market arms dealer turned king, chasing power over others after a powerless youth.

Durge sleeps in an underground ossuary, just off the city sewer system, literally filled with aesthetic pools of blood. There are piles of rotting corpse parts just laying around in the temple and Undercity. Above ground, sure, he was an excellent assassin, but below ground he was a torturer. For his whole life, he was down here chopping people up and tossing their body parts around.

Like...can you imagine the smell? The overpowering stench of rot and death, the wet splotches of blood on pretty much everything, the constant sound of screams? It doesn't really matter if everyone thought Durge could control himself, this was the life he lived and the temple he was the lord of, he did a lot of torturing and killing in the pursuit of pretty much nothing except committing murder. He was a creature who thrived on the agony, torment, and ultimate death of people who may or may not have been perfectly innocent of any crime.

He was about the torment. He was about the pain, the suffering. The devil Raphael, son of Mephistopheles, says outright he admires Durge's work. As insight to that, if you break into the House of Hope, I think you can find Raphael's commentary on the fall of Karsis, where he talks about the absolute carnage and pain and blood and death that came with the cities falling from the skies, and how much he loved it. That's the guy Durge's normal Tuesday schedule impressed.

And Durge's part in the Absolute scam? Let it ride. Stand back, be agreeable, let the other two map out the path to glory. Because it didn't matter. Durge wasn't looking to rule, he wasn't looking for power. He was waiting in the wings until everything was in place, then he was going to kill the other two and take the stones. He was going to command the whole of the Sword Coast, eventually all of Faerun, to transform into mind flayers.

His goal wasn't just to kill everyone, it was to destroy their souls. Every last one, to deprive the other gods of their worshippers. The literal ultimate end of everything, his whole purpose was to be the last man standing and to then kill himself in Bhaal's name. This entire plot was started and orchestrated to end it all.

Depending on your decisions, this can still happen, I think. I know I got the option to dominate the brain and become The Absolute, which I didn't take so I don't know how it played out. But if you don't go that route, and you do stop the brain, well.

You're still the villain who started it all. You just follow a different death god in the end.

But you live to follow him, if you choose the 'good' ending. If you chose to defy Bhaal and to destroy the Netherbrain, you get a new lease on life. You not only get to ride triumphantly into the sunset with your romanced companion, you also get invited back in six months to meet with everyone and re-establish your ties, and most of the dialogue options (and Withers' words) indicate you get to keep your found family, too.

No other villain gets this. Ketheric fought you to the end, but even though you proved powerful enough to defeat an avatar of Myrkul, he's likely punished by his god after death for his failure. The same with Gortash; if you use Speak with Dead on his body, Gortash is gone and it's Bane who speaks to you through the corpse because Gortash is already busy being punished for failing.

Jergal/Withers knows who you are as soon as he sees you, but he won't tell you. If he did, if you knew you were Bhaal's chosen right away, you would go running straight to Moonrise Towers to demand your place back, and the world would end. Withers may not directly push you where he wants you, but he does manipulate you by keeping you surrounded by these outside influences for longer so you CAN develop an independent piece of yourself.

Jergal creates you anew, by helping you along a journey that will ultimately give you that independent bit of self that will allow you to choose. Not only choose, but continue to exist if your choice is to defy Bhaal. The other two Chosen don't get that option, they're steeped in their own horrors with no escape and no framework to make any other decisions than the ones they do.

Not you, though. You lucked out. Because your sister gave you brain damage.

[waterdeep-weavemoss]

@dreamingofthewild you wanted me to do the 'give me a character' thing with Astarion. Thank you 💜 I'm putting how I feel at the end. mentions of abuse/trauma. so.

All the people I ship romantically with this character - Let's see... Wyll and Shadowheart. Wyll because canonically they have a huge crush on each other and it would also be so incredibly funny for sweet upstanding pride of the gate Wyll to be with him when Astarion lives for causing chaos. Shadowheart because I think they could really help each other. Astarion would help her with her memory issues and confronting her past actions and how it's not her fault, and she'd help him understand that he's worth more than his body. I think also that both of them could learn gentle loving touch when both of them have been forced to torture and kill.

My non-romantic OTP for this character - Karlach. I almost put her in the romantic option but she desperately wants intimacy including sex and Astarion would rather not have so much, and I really think if they were in a relationship he'd just want to please her and would struggle to say no. Not because she would pressure him in any way just because he would want to fulfill her needs as well. And also Gale. I've said before, they're so similar. I couldn't ship them romantically because I feel like they'd just make each other worse. Both of them are so ambitious and want to be safe but they are looking in the wrong places for it and I think they'd drag each other down the dark path.

My unpopular opinion about this character - He doesn't woobify himself so we shouldn't either. He says he would've killed you, if you'd met at a different time. And he's right. It takes months for him to grow into a person who looks out for others. I suppose it's also unpopular to say I loathe ascended Astarion, and that includes batstarion and all of that. It's not cute. What he represents is disgusting and it is so clear to me as an abuse survivor who was abused BY another survivor that the Ascendant is a hollow caricature of the man Astarion is. It's not 'keeping him low' to have him remain a spawn. It's allowing him to keep his humanity and sweetness and build on it to become a better person for himself and others. The Ascendant is a wreck. He's more broken after the ritual than he ever was before it.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon - I think we all wish he could be cured but I wish he could also just settle somewhere? Like have a home base that he and Tav (or Durge) adventure from. Maybe outside of Baldur's Gate. Maybe in Waterdeep.

How I feel about this character - I have many, many complex feelings about Astarion. I staked him in my first playthrough because his mean streak really got my back up and annoyed me. On my next playthrough I gave him a chance this time and it felt so incredibly rewarding to get 'ah, my favourite travelling companion' in act 2. It felt like making friends with a mean cat. And then we got to Cazador. Cazador, who was so close to my own pathetic, power hungry, posturing abuser that it took my breath away a little bit. Cazador who like my own abuser would lock Astarion away because he couldn't have freedom. Who said they were family even as he hurt him. Even as he moulded him into someone else from who he had been. Someone Astarion- and I- could never go back to. Someone to mourn, when it was all over. His death is still my favourite thing in this game. I always itch for the Cazador fight as soon as I get to act 3. Seeing Astarion stab him repeatedly? Yeah. I wish I could too. But when he fell to his knees and scream sobbed... yeah. I've been there. My god I cried with him. And I was so proud of him, too. Realising he could be better than what he made him. Yeah. Then I romanced him, and was floored by how this mean, dismissive, manipulative man softens into someone not only gentle but sweet. Someone who wants desperately to love but doesn't know how, but will try, for this one person. The way he understands exactly what's happening if you enter into the pact with Haarlep, and tells Tav he's sorry, he's been there, it's not their fault and they shouldn't have to just put up with it and not to suffer alone. The way he is the ONLY person to truly understand Durge and urges them to be better if they're resisting. He was not the person I thought would be telling me, the player, what I needed to hear, and every time I just felt cracked open. That we aren't shackled to our pasts. That sometimes you never get the apology you deserve and you need to be okay with that for your own sake. That the person you are now is what counts, but you must confront the person you were and lay them to rest. He is so ride or die for the player character if you put in the time and effort for him that it just blows my mind. The minute Tav or Durge is threatened he's in his feral little crouch ready to fight for them, because they fought for him, too. That got a little out of hand. But I love Astarion so much. His story gave me the courage to start setting my own hard boundaries and as a result I broke off a five year friendship that was making my hair fall out from stress, and a few months later quit my PhD because it was ruining not only my wellbeing but also my love of writing and reading. And now I'm doing so much better. And the catalyst was Astarion's story. So yeah. I don't care if people hate him. He quite honestly changed my life. 'You're not alone in this. None of us are.'