#the tale of years

[ardafanonarch]

Does canon indicate who is older: Elros or Elrond?

Birth Order of Elrond and Elros and Elrond

Good question. My instinct on this was no, canon does not indicate who is older, and indeed further research turned up nothing definitive. (If anyone has evidence to the contrary, please share it!) However, I uncovered a decent hint that Tolkien imagined Elros the elder.

[ETA: Please see this reblog for a revised answer that confirms the Elros theory!]

The fact that they are twins at all is not even in the published Silmarillion or The Lord of the Rings, which introduce them thus:

Bright Eärendil was then lord of the people that dwelt nigh to Sirion’s mouths; and he took to wife Elwing the fair, and she bore to him Elrond and Elros, who are called the Half-elven. The Silmarillion, ‘Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath’ The sons of Eärendil were Elros and Elrond, the Peredhil or Half-elven. The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A

Here, the order in which their names appear does not help us as we get both options.

It’s important to note here that Elros did not even exist from the conception of the mythology of Middle-earth. Elrond son of ‘Eärendel’ does not appear in any of the Lost Tales, but he does show up in the 1926 Sketch of the Mythology, the ‘Earliest’ Silmarillion (one day I’ll make post summarising all these texts, but in the meantime Table 2 at the end of this bio has a lot of them!). Elros does not join him until the next version of the Silmarillion,* the 1930 Quenta Noldorinwa. Here he is added in revisions to the text. In those revisions, his name comes first (‘Elros and Elrond’).

(*When I do not italicise Silmarillion, I am referring to the whole corpus of drafts. Italicised means the published book edited by Christopher Tolkien.)

The same sort of revision is made to Annal 325 of The Later Annals of Beleriand (referred to as AB 2 and written between 1930 and 1937). Christopher Tolkien notes that his father pencilled a note to change the original passage (which only mentions Elrond) to:

The Peringiul, the Half-elven, were born to Elwing wife of Eärendel, while Eärendel was at sea, the twin brethren Elrond and Elros. The History of Middle-earth Vol. 5: The Lost Road, The Later Annals of Beleriand, Commentary on Annal 325.

Important! Christopher then notes, “The order was then inverted to ‘Elros and Elrond’.”

Note that the 1930 Quenta Noldorinwa is the main source for most of the last chapter of the published Silmarillion because Tolkien did not return to a full narrative of this section of the Silmarillion again. However, they are mentioned in the briefly sketched Tale of Years (1951-52), where it is again stated that they were twins and again they appear as ‘Elros and Elrond’.

[Added entry:] 528 [> 532] Elros and Elrond twin sons of Earendil born.* The History of Middle-earth Vol. 11: The War of the Jewels, Tale of Years, Text ‘C’

*[> 532] means this entry was revised to 532, the date you will find in the timeline on Tolkien Gateway (which defaults to the ‘most recent’ revision). Note that The Tale of Years (the published portion of which only covers the 6th century of the First Age) is actually four consecutive drafts: dates are revised and the entries become increasingly detailed, but each draft ends earlier than the last (e.g. Text A goes to FA 600, Text D ends at FA 527). Most of the timelines you find online attempt to consolidate all four drafts — but worth bearing in mind that Tolkien never finalised these dates.

Finally: upon investigating the source text for that one instance, from the published Silmarillion, of Elrond appearing before Elros, I discovered that this was actually an editorial decision. Tolkien himself, as far as I could find, always listed Elros before Elrond.

Now, this is not, as I said, definitive evidence that Elros tumbled out of the womb first. But I’d say it suggests that Elros was the elder, since I can think of no other reason to consistently list them in this order (it’s not alphabetical, for example). And this, indeed, seems to be the fandom’s general consensus.

But, strictly based on canon, you are free to put them in either order. In fact, if you are someone who only takes the published Silmarillion as canon, you don’t even have to make them twins.

[tenth-sentence]

September 21. Frodo and Samwise set out from Hobbiton.

"The Lord of the Rings: Appendices - Appendix B" - J.R.R. Tolkien

[whats-in-a-sentence]

1422 With the beginning of this year the Fourth Age began in the count of years in the Shire; but the numbers of the years of Shire Reckoning were continued.

"The Lord of the Rings: Appendices - Appendix B" - J.R.R. Tolkien

[detailedart]

Details: Lilith and the Serpent, by A.J. Hamilton.

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Happy one year anniversary to In Stars and Time!

[readingrobin]

Fairy tale nerds of Tumblr I need your help.

I've been trying to find a fairy tale for AGES, this has been almost a decades long quest. I first read it in a Highlights magazine around the mid 2000s, when the theme was "Fairy Tales from around the World." Now I don't know if this is actually an older fairy tale or just one that was made up for the magazine masquerading as a story from somewhere else. I've done my own research and have come up zilch.

So, this story was about a prince that was cursed to be a wolf until he was able to bite a bride the night of her wedding. Well, it just so happens that such a woman is riding through the forest with her new beau, a very uncouth man that calls her his "little chicken." Long story short, a pack of wolves waylay their carriage, the wolf prince bites the lady, becomes human again, and they fall in love and marry.

And what happened to her original husband?

Well naturally he gets turned into a chicken and they eat him at their wedding feast.

Classic.

if anyone knows the title of this fairy tale or where it may have originated, please let me know! I'd love to see if I can read it again.

[flower-zombiee]

Something I think about so much is just how different the Stanley Pines we see in ATOTS is from the Grunkle Stan we know in the rest of the show.

Like, have you ever noticed just how much more expressive Stan is in 1983? The guy wears his heart on his sleeve so much more than he does later on. At almost every moment you can tell exactly what he's thinking and feeling just from his face, something that will become a lot rarer for him. Even setting aside the portal incident scene itself, have y'all ever watched the Dusk 2 Dawn scene and just watched Stan's face? He looks so… openly sad.

It's not just his expressions. Here's a detail that only just occurred to me: you guys ever think it's weird that Stan doesn't just try to steal the bread from Dusk 2 Dawn? Like, you'd think his stealing habit would've originated from his years on the street stealing to survive, but no— he tries to pay for the bread, and then when he doesn't have any money, he figures out how to get some. It's surprisingly honest.

And just like… I don't know, his whole vibe is so different. He's come from this life of hardship completely willing to talk things through. He's emotional, he's open, and not exactly what you'd expect to see when you imagine what a younger Grunkle Stan might have been like. In fact, his vibe is so different that, in Journal 3, Ford writes that when he first saw Stan, he assumed he was just in another alternate dimension rather than the one he came from.

Anyway, it just makes me think about the transition of how, exactly, he went from one to the other. How we go from the "stubborn, frostbitten vagabond" to the "carnival barker" he is by the show's present. I think about that in-between Stan a lot. Realizing that the hole in his heart, the one he thought was caused by his circumstance for so long, hadn't disappeared even now that he had money and a steady place to live. Growing more bitter and grumpy by the day, learning that maybe it's just better if he shuts himself off from the world so nobody has a chance to hurt him. Seeing himself aging and finding himself no closer to saving Ford. Ship of Theseus-ing himself into the carefully curated asshole that maybe even he thinks he is.

[the-kiarah-organisation]

"wow you really are making this whole plural thing your whole personality"

You are never gonna believe this..

[bequiteanddrivefaraway]

[doctorsiren]

Maybe you could call it Reunited Stans AU?

Also, how do you think the gravity falls locals would see those two? I think Ford would end up getting out of the cabin much more because of Stan. Maybe you could draw them going to town for drinks? I don't know.

I like to think the town locals would either be horrified of them and talk about them as cryptids in their own right, or just be annoyed by their shenanigans

I just remembered they’d be in their early 20s when coming to Gravity Falls haha

But yes they’d definitely start out as “those weird twins that live in the forest” but once Stanley starts feeling like he’s actually safe from that old life Ford pulled him out of, he starts going into the town, which then leads to him dragging Ford along

It’s probably a mix of both, where the town sees them as those odd guys and then also get annoyed by what they do, but also I think they’d think of them as a new endearing staple of their town once the whole “newcomer / stranger” title fades from them. It’d be sort of the same way Stan is in canon with the Mystery Shack, where even though people find him annoying, they also always come to the events.

Also Stanley 😭 your brother does not wanna be in that bar, let him go do nerd things

[shummthechumm]

YOU'VE GOTTA LET IT GLOW ?!

YOU'VE GOTTA LET IT SHINE ?!

(available as stickers on shop)

[theeio]

Platonic Zouxie art I forgot to post

[tenth-sentence]

June 16. They set out for Gondor.

"The Lord of the Rings: Appendices - Appendix B" - J.R.R. Tolkien

[whats-in-a-sentence]

April 12 Gandalf reaches Hobbiton.

"The Lord of the Rings: Appendices - Appendix B" - J.R.R. Tolkien

[hypewinter]

Okay so what if Danny was the first clone of Superman instead of Connor? I see it going like this:

Danny gets reincarnated and immediately wakes up in a pod. Once his brain catches up to what's going on around him, he quickly nopes out of his pod and takes a little tour around the facility he found himself in. Along the way he discovers some major incriminating evidence but more importantly, he discovers who his donor dad is! Hooray! So Danny takes his freshly alive little butt and that incriminating evidence all the way to his donor dad's house.

Enter Clark, who is very unsure how to feel when a boy shows up at his door, claiming to be his clone and with evidence to boot! On one hand he's glad this clone doesn't appear to hurt or anything but on the other hand, his dna was taken without his permission to make an entirely new person!? He knows none of this is his fault but at the same time, why is this suddenly Clark's responsibility? But the kid just escaped a dangerous facility on his own. But what if the kid was brainwashed to believe he escaped but is really a spy after all? Is Clark supposed to take care of regardless? After all he didn't even want kids! At least not that soon but then again....

Danny takes one hard look at Clark's wishy washy bs and just goes "Yeah no bud, that's not how this works. Neither of us asked to be in this situation but we're in it now so you're just gonna have to deal." Basically, he shames Clark into taking care of him. Especially when the Justice League and the Kents find out and now he can tattle to other adults about how Clark's mistreating him. Danny doesn't ever hesitate to bring up what kind of hypocritical monster Clark and therefore Superman would be if he claimed to stand for truth justice and the American way while also leaving his own clone out in the cold.

And you know what? This actually works. Clark starts taking care of Danny to get everyone off his ass but then comes to find out this kid is actually kind of a riot to be around? And single fatherhood is kinda fun actually?

Basically by the time Kon comes around, Clark has settled nicely into his clone dad era and is willing to strangle anyone who would not only steal his DNA, but also dare to use his precious clone babies for evil gain. Because seriously how dare they?

[bugchuckles]

whoa can't believe they finally released the evelyn clawthorne character sheets????????? wild