#the state of Bl fandom

[byakuyasdarling]

I hate randomly blocking people that follow me for no reason other than “what they draw makes me uncomfortable” because it illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of MY SCRIMBLO (/lh). I understand it’s simply conjecture, but people who highlight that part of his light novel (a part that was revealed to be a dream and not close to canonicity) bother me a lot.

[magicaldreamfox1]

i'm turning evil

[help-itrappedmyself]

Danny Punches a Clown 4.5

Little snippet as a thank you for 100 followers (Part 5 is in the works)

Masterpost

~~~~~~~~~~

“You are absolute morons.” Red ranted as he picked himself up off of his brothers. “You couldn’t just leave it to me, noooo. You all needed to see him for yourselves. Ignoring the fact that he is clearly traumatized, exhausted, and scared. Probably hasn’t slept since getting kidnapped and escaping from the Joker. Not to mention whatever happened before he even got to Gotham. What do you have to say for yourselves?”

Dick and Jason both seemed fully chastised, but were also back up and ready to go find him again.

“Boys, I have him on a camera in a warehouse two buildings down from you. He didn’t get far and he is bandaging wounds right now.” Oracle said over coms.

“Well he can’t run very far.” Dick stated. Red glared at him.

“Can you guys just give me a minute to try and talk to him without a crowd?”

“Nightwing, take Robin back to the cave on his bike.” Batman orders. “Red will be using the batmobile to transport Danny, I will use your bike to monitor. Hood, Batgirl, finish up patrol and meet back at the cave.”

~~~~~~~~~

@that-random-fangirl, @sebas-nights, @whataspectaclebear, @wolf-iz-2000, @bl-webtoonweeb @daydreamsandcrashingwaves @molasses-being-slow @kiana996 @randomafterthought @icarusinstatic @fandom-gremlin-1987 @littlebreathoflight @blep-23 @okami-love @dasha022 @wolfeyedwitch @mushroomymoss @nonbinary-disaster @imsotiredfanficlovertm

[musicalmoritz]

It’s canon Mitsuba’s gay?

I’m gonna use this as an excuse to yap because Mitsuba’s queercoding is either weirdly downplayed by fans or used solely for BL shipping purposes so I want to talk about it through the lens of what it means for his character, role in the story, and relationship with Kou

Yes, Mitsuba is canonically gay

Things don’t have to be explicitly stated in order to be canon, subtext is a major part of media analysis. This is something a lot of fans miss which leads to a misunderstanding of the source material. I do have some credentials for this, I’ve taken two undergrad college literature classes in which the subject of queercoding did come up multiple times. Meaning analyzing queercoding has literally gone towards my degree so I feel like my opinion holds some weight (not as much as that of an actual English major but yk I assume I’ve had more education on it than the general TBHK fandom)

There are multiple ways to queercode a character, sometimes it can be as simple as feminizing a man or masculinizing a woman. Though that method might be a bit outdated nowadays with gender roles becoming less strict, it’s still worth keeping in mind when analyzing queer characters. Another way is through romantically colored scenes with characters of the same sex, or by having them hint at disinterest in the opposite sex. Mitsuba checks off all three of these boxes and then some

First off, Mitsuba is attracted to men. This is made extremely obvious through his relationship with Kou but I’m gonna explain it anyways because unfortunately I’ve seen a lot of fans say they’re just platonic

Mitsuba and Kou went on a date. When this is brought up, fans typically jump to the excuse of “but Kou said it wasn’t a date,” which is where my American Lit class is going to come in handy. One of the major things we learned is that authors have to understand that everything they write has some sort of real world connotation. If you write a scene with a doctor, you have to understand that your readers already have preconceived notions of what doctors represent. You can choose to either lean into that or subvert it, but you have to be aware that as soon as a doctor enters the scene, readers have already made assumptions about that character

The word “date” is clearly being used in a romantic context here. When Kou texts his friends and brother about it, they all assume he’s talking about a romantic date. While in the actual context of the scene, Mitsuba and Kou aren’t quite ready to use such a strong label yet, the romantic wording here is still very intentional. AidaIro would not have labeled this moment as a date if they didn’t want readers to view it in a romantic light, because they understand that their readers are going to associate dates with romance. Japanese censorship is really strict, it’s hard to publish stories with explicitly queer characters unless the series is labeled as a BL or GL. And so Japanese manga writers often have to find roundabout ways to express that characters are gay without outright stating it- such as suggesting that they’re going on a date with a character of the same sex

In the printed volume for Vol.20, there’s an editor’s note that mentions that when Kou and Mitsuba are making plans to hang out at the school festival, it holds a romantic implication for the Japanese audience. Cultural differences are important to keep in mind, to western fans this scene might not raise any eyebrows but for its primary audience, it is confirmation that Mitsuba and Kou are romantic. I also find it interesting that the editor felt this context was important enough to warrant clarification

And frankly, their relationship doesn’t make a lot of sense if it’s solely platonic. Male friendship is something TBHK writes very realistically, the male characters aren’t as touchy-feely with their friends as they are with their female love interests. Yokoo and Satou don’t directly ask Kou how he’s feeling when they notice he’s upset, instead they give him a task to distract him- similar to how men in real life cheer their friends up through quality time rather than talking through their emotions like women do (not every man ofc but a good majority of them). When Teru is down, Akane doesn’t hold him and reassure him the way he does with Aoi. There are no grand declarations of ultimate “friendship” the way you see in fan servicy series like Haikyuu. Instead, he used his and Teru’s rivalry to indirectly motivate him to get his head back in the game. When Hanako is sad, Kou cheers him up by making donuts for him and then giving them to Nene so she can pretend she’s the one who made them. This is a very healthy portrayal of male friendship, and Mitsuba and Kou are nothing like this

Mitsuba and Kou both cry and vent to each other multiple times (the Mitsuba Arc, the Picture Perfect Arc, the Nightlife Arc), and instead of comforting each other indirectly they do things like offering to die for each other. You would never see Akane offer to die to make Teru feel better, nor would you Aoi and Nene or Kou and Hanako. It stands out so much from other friendships in the series, even Kou’s friendships with other characters. That is a conscious writing decision, AidaIro make a point to show Mitsuba as an exception for Kou. It’s worth noting that in the same chapter where Yokoo and Satou cheer Kou up indirectly, Mitsuba attempts to directly have him talk about his feelings

They’re also incredibly possessive over one another, in a way friends usually aren’t. When Kou was in the Red House, he was shown his greatest desires, and Mitsuba appeared in one of these. Kou said he knew Mitsuba would appear, which is interesting because at that point he had already picked up on the house showing him what he wanted. But what does he want? He wants Mitsuba to rely on him entirely, to be completely useless without him. He wants Mitsuba to be “no good without him,” to need him so badly that he begs him to die so they can be together. I’m not exaggerating, these are lines pulled straight from the chapter (paraphrased but still). Later on in the Nightlife arc, Kou breaks down when he discovers Mitsuba has been relying on Tsukasa for life-saving help. As for Mitsuba, he wants to die by Kou’s hands. He says it wouldn’t be satisfying if anyone else killed him, and that he would be happy if Kou were to be the last person he spent time with before he died. He tries to trap Kou in a picture perfect world just like Hanako does with Nene, because he wants to live a normal life with him. It’s also shown in one of the extras that Mitsuba cries when Kou ignores him

They’re also drawn very romantically, again we don’t see Teru and Akane this intimate with one another unless they’re fighting. We especially don’t see Kou this intimate with anyone other than Mitsuba, and while Mitsuba is sometimes clingy with Tsukasa we certainly never see him posed romantically with a woman. This comes back to authorial intent and real world connotations, AidaIro know that male friends aren’t typically this close, and therefore casual affection like this will be interpreted in a romantic light. We see them hold hands/wrists multiple times too, Kou gives Mitsuba a piggyback ride in one scene, and in ASHK they had a classic “pinned against the wall” page

I’ll also mention the AUs, because those indicate a lot about the characters as well. In Hanako-Kun of the Opera, Kou poisoned Mitsuba so he could take him away from the opera house and protect him from Tsukasa. He basically kidnapped him. He also stayed with Mitsuba at the opera house for a seemingly long period of time despite hating opera. Aaaaand they’re childhood best friends in this au and Kou took care of Mitsuba while he was sick

Then there’s the Ghost Hotel, where Kou is a werewolf who takes bites out of mummy Mitsuba during full moons. Despite this, the two appear to be friends and Mitsuba helps Kou out around the kitchen. Cannibalism is consistently tied to romance throughout TBHK, most notably with Hakubo and Sumire but other romantic pairings have cannibalistic moments or official arts. During the zombie mokke chapter, Nene panicked when Akane tries to eat her because she assumed it would put her in a love triangle with Aoi. So yeah, cannibalism in TBHK is directly tied to romance and we see that with Mitsukou both in canon and in this au. Speaking of which, I’m not even gonna get into the symbolism of Kou holding a heart out to Mitsuba. Connect the dots for yourselves

Now that we’ve got Mitsukou out of the way, let’s talk about Mitsuba’s disinterest in women

Remember how I said one of the ways queercoding is done is by having a character hint at disinterest in the opposite sex? Yeah, very rarely are we going to see a queercoded male character outright say “I have no attraction to women.” Instead they say they just never saw the appeal in dating, or that they never had time to settle down. In more obvious cases, we have scenes like Reiner from AOT joking that Ymir isn’t all that into guys

I couldn’t find the second scene but there are TWO extras where the subject of Mitsuba’s disinterest in women comes up. C’mon guys I’m trying not to be mean here but you have to be blind, oblivious, or in denial to not pick up on that. Whyyyyy would they mention Mitsuba not having a crush on any girls twice if it weren’t to suggest something about his preference?? Coupled with his appearance (which I’ll get to later) and relationship with Kou, these scenes carry a lot of weight. Even if those other aspects weren’t included, scenes like this would still indicate he has no interest in women (which would make him gay or aroace, though due to his relationship with Kou the aroace thing is kind of ruled out)

Compare this to a scene where Mitsuba thinks he’s being asked out by a man. He doesn’t say “hmmm nope no guys, I’m cuter than all of them~” he specifically says “I’m not interested in guys with lame earrings.” The way this is worded implies that Mitsuba is discussing a type, though it’s v much a comedic scene and we know from everything else that he absolutely does like guys with lame earrings, it’s still worded in a way that makes him appear queer. If he were straight, they would have had him say he’s not interested in guys at all (like Dazai from Bungou Stray Dogs, John Watson from BBC Sherlock, Finn Hudson from Glee, idk there are a lot of male characters that are explicit straight sorry for the crazy random list). Also note how he teases Kou about it, he knows that Kou is fond of him and doesn’t hesitate to use that against him (like when he was comforting him during the Nightlife arc)

They don’t go overboard with Mitsuba’s disinterest in women because, well, that’s not really necessary. Two scenes is already a lot, and he doesn’t have any romantic relationships with women in canon (even as a crush/a joke scene). It’s rare for TBHK characters to have absolutely no scenes expressing interest in the opposite sex, since the series is partially a romance. But Mitsuba consistently only ever shows interest in one man, and when girls are brought up he’s quick to brush it off. His mom did think Nene was his girlfriend when they met, but this was depicted as a very awkward and comedic scene. Because the premise of Mitsuba having a girlfriend is objectively hilarious

(Due to Sousuke’s young age it’s reasonable to assume he wasn’t out to his mom yet, he’s around the age where most kids are closeted. It’s even possible that Sousuke hadn’t come to terms with his sexuality yet, though it’s still a prevalent part of both his character and No.3’s)

Now let’s move onto appearances. I want to give a quick disclaimer, not all gay men are feminine and not all feminine men are gay. Androgyny is also very common in anime and doesn’t automatically mean a character is gay, but there are cases when it’s used for queercoding. Mitsuba is one of these cases

Mitsuba is a very feminine character, this is addressed as soon as he shows up in the manga. He was bullied for his appearance (and personality), but unlike his personality he never tried to change his feminine appearance. He kept his hair long, continues to wear scarves and cardigans and earrings. No.3 wears these things as well, and I would argue has a more feminine personality since he seems to be more open about his emotions and idk. I struggle to categorize feminine and masculine traits because imo that’s subjective but there are things society deems feminine vs. masculine. The problem is that I really dislike the whole “men are strong and women are emotional” thing but ehhhh I guess I have to talk about it for this. Hmph. But yeah although Mitsuba isn’t exactly the biggest sweetheart ever, he does act somewhat feminine compared to the other male characters (as I’ve said he’s p much the only man in the series who attempts to work through emotional conflicts directly)

Once again we circle back to intent, AidaIro know that a male character dressed in pink with pink eyes and long pink hair is going to raise some eyebrows. Even by androgynous anime standards, it’s a bit much. And good for him, although not all gay men are feminine, some are and that’s also fine. I can’t speak on how well he represents feminine gay men because I’m a lesbian but he does dress similar to some of the feminine gay men I’ve known irl (or slightly less feminine in some cases…I knew this one dude in high school who used to wear corsets to class and he was so badass I hope he’s doing well)

I could get into how Kou is a bit feminized too with the whole housework thing but this ain’t abt him. I will say that Kou is still a very masculine character but despite this his character is feminized in some ways compared to the other men. I’m not really here to discuss whether that’s good or bad, I’m just stating the evidence as it is, you can make your own conclusions as to how you feel about it

So how does being queer impact Mitsuba’s character arc?

When I get around to writing my analyses of all the TBHK characters I WILL be talking more in depth about the queer allegories with Mitsuba’s character but for now I’ll give ya’ll a quick summary. Supernatural characters have been used for years to represent queerness, the same could be said for villains and any character trope that represents a feeling of “otherness.” Sometimes it’s more broad like X-Men, where the superpowered characters are used to represent all types of minorities (though I believe X-Men is more closely tied to race, there are rampant queer themes as well). Then there’s books like Interview with the Vampire that get more specific with it, where Louis denying his “true nature” as a vampire is used as an allegory for him denying his queerness. Well I’m here to tell you that Mitsuba and Louis de Pointe du Lac are in the same boat

Mitsuba differs from the other supernaturals because he desperately tries to hold on to feelings of normalcy. He wants to be a normal human and live a normal human life. He doesn’t want to be othered, to be outcasted from society for something he can’t control. We don’t see Hanako, Tsuchigomori, Mei, or any of the other supernatural characters struggle with this. You could argue that Akane does but his situation is more related to learning to empathize with others than any internal battles within himself. Hanako may have moments of wishing him and Nene could have something more, but that’s more about romance than his identity.

This desire to be “normal” is unique to Mitsuba’s character, and it’s a very queer desire. Being an angsty teenager who hasn’t fully accepted themself yet and hasn’t realized that being queer is not only normal, but a beautiful experience. It’s also so interesting to me that as he’s trying so hard to be normal, it creates a push and pull between him and Kou. He wants to be normal for Kou but he also feels that he’s hurting Kou just by existing, that this could only end bad for him. Oh the inherent guilt of having your first gay crush and feeling like you're corrupting them hist for pining from afar

So, can you ship him with women? Technically you can do anything, shipping isn’t illegal and we all have free will. Should you ship him with women is more subjective, I personally think no!! Queerness is not just a sexuality, it’s an identity that deeply impacts who you are as a person. It shapes your experiences and your view of yourself, and in an allegorical way it has certainly done this for Mitsuba. Yes, bi people are queer as well and this is still true for them, but bisexuality is not Mitsuba’s experience. Mono-attraction exists and that specification is very important to gay men and lesbians. For some people sexuality is fluid and that’s beautiful, but it doesn’t work that way for everyone

Some queer fans don’t care if gay characters are shipped with members of the opposite sex, and they’re entitled to their own opinions. It makes me immensely uncomfortable tho, so please block me if you ship Mitsuba with women. That goes for any ships between canon gay/lesbian characters and the opposite sex. I respect people’s right to have opinions but that doesn’t mean I have to like the opinions themselves, and I don’t have to engage with anything that makes me uneasy. That goes for all of you btw, never let people convince you that you have to put up with shit you hate on the internet lmao, this is not real life babes. Block and move on

TL;DR

Mitsuba is too gay to function

[neuroticbookworm]

Engagement of QL Fandom in Indian Queer Media

I was tagged by @lurkingshan and invited to respond to an ask she received from @impala124 that noted the absence of India in the Asian queer media spaces and discussions, and questioned the reasons behind it. @starryalpacasstuff has also responded to it in a great post (check out the reblog additions for a treasure trove of Indian queer media recs), discussing, among many things, Korea’s culture export aiding their queer media ventures, access to Indian queer media, and the quality of Indian queer media. @twig-tea’s addition discussed the ease of access of Thai BLs via YouTube and how it prompted Korea and Japan to re-enter the genre.

My thoughts on Indian queer media are complicated and involve several detours to understand Indian media culture, its economic power, and how it navigates international viewership. For context, I am an Indian cinephile who grew up watching a wide variety of Indian media in terms of both language and genre. I naturally transitioned into watching Western content as globalization of the 2010s brought HBO and Comedy Central to Indian screens, and later sought out queer media, Asian media and Asian queer media on the internet.

Indian Media Industry - A Primer

I know there are a lot of countries right now that produce QL media, so I am gonna mainly consider Thailand, Japan, and Korea, the three countries most prolific with ql, for the purpose of this discussion. All of these countries, while regionally diverse, have managed to considerably homogenize in language and culture over the course of history and colonization. India, on the other hand, is still significantly and distinctly diverse in language, culture, religion, food, media styles, social norms, and on and on. India has 22 official languages and thousands of regional ones that are used in various capacities everyday. This diversity is then reflected in the media produced by India, with multiple powerhouse film industries dominating box offices simultaneously. Bollywood is the biggest one and obviously well known internationally, but Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada, Punjabi, Bengali-language film industries are successful in their own right and consistently produce box office hits and self-sustain in the larger Indian media landscape. This makes domestic media highly regional in India. Even today, in the age of social media, it takes a box office success to the tune of hundreds of millions of rupees for a film to break out of its domestic audience and cross over into other Indian states.

This diversity has also led to the different industries developing media styles unique to them. I watched this video a while ago of a creator documenting his experience of dipping toes into Indian Cinema for the first time, and he ends up covering three movies from three different industries, because the pathos of each of them is so fundamentally different yet effective in their own ways. This diversity also applies to the television industry, both traditional cable TV soaps, and the modern shows made for streaming sites. And all of this, *waves hands*, presents a set of challenges like no other country faces for both Indian queer creators and Indian queer media audiences.

The Challenges for Creators

Since the Indian media industry is not a big monolith and is made up of multiple film industries, queer creators who are trying to get their foot in the door will face a unique uphill battle in whichever regional industry they’re trying to break into. And trying to research, learn, and understand each and every single one of them will take me and my non-existent research team years, so the simpler thing to do would be listing the factors that have worked for other countries to foster their media industries to produce QL content, and discuss if India could replicate them. The list goes like this:

Japan’s rich history in yaoi

Thailand’s use of BL as a soft power to promote tourism

Korea’s culture export via kpop and other media

While India does have religious mythology that discusses sex, gender and queerness, it is often subtext with a lot of intersectionality. Does Ardhanarishvara represent fluid gender, or a symbol of harmony, or both? The debates are endless. Japan’s yaoi roots are as deep as they are explicit. And this rich history could be why the Japanese domestic audience is open to queer media even when the country is still conservative.

Thailand’s rise as a major player in the QL industry is remarkable, but there is a case to be made that the country’s media industry was directly and indirectly boosted by the government’s interest in establishing revenue from tourism, and exporting culture to international audiences via food and media. While the revenue from tourism in India is substantial, the Indian economy is not built on it. And the Indian media industry is thriving and regularly makes bank with their already established content models, so the producers have a pretty low incentive to deviate and fund queer media.

I bet every coin I own that not a single one of us on this hellsite have successfully eluded the allure of Korean media in our lives. The Korean media industry is a well-calibrated machine that shall and will target every single human into funneling their time, attention and money into the Korean culture and economy. And I think queer creators looking to make queer content in Korea would’ve had good incubation in an industry that was looking to make as much content as possible. And once again, while Indian movies have significant international box office collections, that is not where the Indian media industry, and just India in general, makes its money. The priorities are just not the same. And to be perfectly honest, India is nowhere near the level of Korea at producing and exporting television shows to international audiences.

All of this is a long winded way of saying that the conditions required to foster a QL industry in India are not the same as what we have seen work so far from the other major players. And sadly no one has really figured out the winning formula yet.

These are just a few reasons, and I haven’t even discussed nepotism and how painful class mobility is in India, making it even harder for new queer creators to break into the industry. There’s a reason why movies with queer representation like Badhaai Do, Shubh Mangal Zyada Saavdhan, Ek Ladki Ko Dekha Toh Aisa Laga, and Kapoor & Sons all feature characters in the upper middle class or above. Hell, they’re even played by actors whose portfolio is already filled with daring and experimental roles, or by first- or second-gen nepo babies who would literally have nothing to lose from the potential backlash for playing a queer character. Poor, queer characters in Indian media have never been a part of a fluffy romance as far as I know. They are reserved for the gritty dramas where intersectionality of queerness, poverty, class and caste could be examined.

The Challenges for the Audience

And once again, all of this, *aggressively waves hands*, makes things harder for even the domestic audience to engage with Indian queer media, let alone international audiences. Kathaal - The Core, a 2023 Malayalam movie about a queer man in his fifties coming out of the closet and contesting in his village body elections, was a box office success in Kerala, and I can tell y’all with complete certainty that not many people outside of Kerala would’ve even heard of it. And this was not some small indie venture – in fact, the lead characters were played by Mammootty and Jyothika, who are both absolute legends in their own right in the South Indian film industry.

Super Deluxe was a 2019 Tamil-language black comedy film that tells four interwoven stories that run in parallel, and one of the stories is about a trans woman who, pre-transition, was married and had a son. She returns to her family as her post-transition self after years of disappearance, and the film engages in conversation around sex and gender, through the innocent questions of her young son. The movie is gorgeously made, and outrageously sharp and witty in its commentary on society’s views on sex, morality, religion and family. And once again, I don’t think it is well-known outside of the domestic and international award-circuit audiences it was promoted to (last I checked, it was available to domestic audiences on Netflix).

Sometimes, even the domestic audience might miss the queer representation in their regional media when it is indie enough to not get aggressively promoted. The Hindi-language anthology movie from Netflix, Ajeeb Daastaans (2021), featured a story where two women from different caste and social class meet at the workplace (the sapphic story, Geeli Pucchi, starts at 1:17:05, if anyone wants to check it out). It served biting commentary on the intersectionality of queerness, misogyny, caste and class. And once again, I’ve never found a person with whom I could discuss it with (other than my mom, with whom I watched it).

And sometimes, even when a massive show with queer representation is well promoted and well received by critics, it still manages to fly under the radar in Indian queer fandom spaces. Amazon Prime India spent a lot of coin on the show Made in Heaven (2019) – and it was worth it. The show follows the lives of two wedding planners, Tara and Karan. Karan is closeted (except to his close friends) for most of the show, but after he makes some powerful enemies in his line of work, he gets publicly outed, which puts him on the path of dealing with his family’s shades of acceptance, queer rights activism, and reconciling with an old friend. The car scene in episode 9 made me cry, and yet I’ve never read a word about this show from Indian QL fan blogs here on Tumblr.

Following every film and TV show that releases in one language, across all modes and platforms, and keeping an eye out for queer representation is hard enough. Doing it in multiple languages is downright impossible. And then personal preferences come into play. Personally, I enjoy nearly all genres of media, but I am primarily an angst monster, so I seek out and watch sad shit on the regular. All four examples I’ve listed in this section are good queer representations, but they are deeply sad, rage-inducing, heartbreaking and realistic. If one wanted to watch an Indian queer romance that’s inside the bubble, I’m not sure if they can even find one – I have certainly not come across any. Even the queer Bollywood movies designed for a box office run, paying homage to iconic Bollywood romance sequences, were still outside the bubble. When a niche audience like the QL fandom collides with a complex media-churning machine like the Indian media industry that is fundamentally not designed to cater to them, all we get is a lot of puzzled looks and question marks.

A Thought Experiment On The Future Of Indian QLs

Now that I have established the challenges, I want to engage in a little thought experiment – if we were to receive a steady stream of Indian QL content, what would it look like, and how can the fandom engage with it?

If we are looking for content from a stable production entity for Indian queer media, like Thailand’s GMMTV, Japan’s MBS Drama Shower, and Korea’s Strongberry, we would be waiting for a long time, at the very least a decade or two. What we could get are small indie queer shows like Romil and Jugal, squirreled away in a streaming platform exclusive to India and only accessible internationally via VPN. Another example is the list of sapphic shows @twig-tea shared with us a while ago, here. These are gonna be low budget, probably-not-great-quality shows reminiscent of early GMMTV.

Another variety of QL content we could get are the Bollywood queer romance films and TV shows. They will be cheesy and tropey and romantic, and might interact with the bubble, but probably mostly from the safety of an upper middle class setting. This means they would eventually run out of fresh perspectives they could tune into in their limited scope and the stories might turn stale and repetitive (I’m deriving this from the general state of things in the Indian media landscape over the last couple years). International access might be a little easier than the previous case, but not as easy as going to YouTube and hitting play.

The third and final variety are the gritty dramas with heavy social, cultural, religious, gender and class commentary that Indian cinema industry has always made, and has upgraded in the recent years to include queerness. Once again, the access will be hard, but if we are looking for queer stories that also show the audience what it is like being queer in India, beyond the glitz, the glam and the colors of pre-packaged Indian experience often sold to the West, this is where we will find it. Most of it will be sad, but we are a sad bunch who constantly make sad shit, so it will be on brand for us.

And all of these different varieties of content are gonna need to be picked up and promoted by the Indian folks in the QL fandom who are tuned into these regional industries. India not being a cultural monolith that is easy to package and ship is precisely why we have all these beautiful and crazy and sometimes even contradictory styles of media that are offered for us to explore. And therefore, the fandom engagement on Indian QL content would also vastly differ from the fandom engagement for Japan, Thailand and Korea. A dedicated fandom captain might not emerge, but rather, a collective group of folks tuning into and promoting finds from their regional industries would be the way to go. In addition, if this content is not available in English, we would need fan subbers to provide translation expertise to even make it accessible, something we see often for Japanese media on Tumblr.

I know from observation that watching media in a different regional language could sometimes be as foreign to Indian audiences as watching media from other countries. The language, traditions, mannerisms, social mores and food would all be different from region to region, but I guess it would be a good litmus test to observe how well the fandom acclimates to a culture that is so eye-wateringly diverse and not as constantly promoted to them.

When I was texting @waitmyturtles discussing how we can approach answering this question (remember when this all started with a question, some two thousand-ish words ago? Yes, that question), at a point in our conversation I exclaimed "Ugh, everything in India is too complicated!" This long-ass post of mine is in no way the complete account of why things are the way they are in the Indian queer media landscape. But all I know for sure is that it’s not simple. And I really do not want anything related to India to be simple, because being unbearably frustrating and complicated is not a bug, but a feature of India. The road to Indian QLs is unique, but I will do my best to check the paths and share and recommend them to my friends whenever possible. And I invite my fellow Indian QL fans to do the same.

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VS SMELLS and VS AGE GAP RELATIONSHIPS

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translation notes:

about Fish Cake Man (7:28)

As we state in the subtitles, this guy’s monologue isn’t something we’re equipped to translate and if we did, it probably wouldn’t make much, if any, sense to English-speaking viewers. We learned from Snow’s Japanese friend that he's a comedian who is famous for doing this particular bit. After we had already finished most of the subtitles, I rewatched seasons 1 and 2 of the show and found that he was also in the other two seasons. In the first season, when Mob is explaining about how he's a side character and intends to keep it that way, he looks at a gardener on his university campus who is pulling weeds, illustrating that the world of BL needs to include some people who are unlikely to ever become main characters. That’s this dude. He appears again in season 2, when Mob is scouring the university for signs of Kikuchi after reading his goodbye letter. In every appearance, he's shown wearing the same sort of nondescript work clothes and cap and seems to work in some kind of maintenance or cleaning capacity at National BL University. –Towel

His name is Nou Misoo (脳みそ夫) which means brain tissue. I believe there's a pun here I'm missing but you can check our his sillyness on youtube, instagram or tiktok. –Snow

about “the gods decided to smite me” (10:24)

The first version of this line said that Mob “received divine punishment” for his Mob Move. That was already a great line! But I thought it had the potential to be a little more specific and evocative in an English-speaking context. At first, I was just trying to think of something a bit more specific to replace “received.” I thought of a few possibilities, including “I was smitten by divine punishment.” But since “smitten” is barely used anymore except to describe someone who's in love, it had the wrong connotation. Then I thought about how another tense of the same verb, “smite,” avoids those connotations and has a kind of King James Bible quality. But if I was going to say “smite,” I’d have to change the sentence from passive voice to active voice (which is generally best anyway) and give the sentence a subject who is doing the smiting.

I thought a unitary, capital-G God would make it sound a little too Biblical, possibly tipping it over into sounding overtly Christian. I knew that some religious traditions practiced in Japan, like Shintoism, included multiple gods. So I tried “the gods decided to smite me.” This seemed to balance out the Old Testament-ish aspect of “smite” a bit. The end result seemed more vivid than the earlier version, and it seemed like something Mob would say.–Towel 

about “select shop” (11:30)

Observant English speakers might notice that when the guy who used the same shampoo as Mob talks about where he got it, he uses a term made up of English loan words. He says he bought it at a “serekuto shoppu" (in English, a "select shop"). While both parts of the word are borrowed from English, the term you get when you put them together isn’t commonly used in the US. I ended up replacing it with “boutique,” which gets across some of the meaning. But I’ll explain in more detail here. 

It turns out that a “select shop” is a kind of smallish shop with carefully curated items that all fit a certain aesthetic. A business like this might be called a “lifestyle boutique” in America, but it’s slightly different from any business model used widely here. The big selling point of a shop like this is the fact that they’ve already vetted and coordinated these products. Their offerings are tailored for a particular niche, so that if you’re into the general idea a select shop is going for, you’re likely to be interested in a lot of what they’re selling. The items for sale will also have been hand-picked by a professional who’s able to find just the right thing in a way that a typical consumer wouldn’t be able to. 

You can imagine what kind of college student would not only shop at this sort of place but declare it proudly. Even if Mob was going to fall in L with a B, this guy would be a bad fit.–Towel

about “a listless ne’er-do-well” (19:04)

The more literal translation of this part goes “a man like this, without ambitions or vitality.” It’s a nice turn of phrase, definitely, but I thought if I could localize it a bit it might evoke more of the right feeling. I thought it would be more typical in English to express this in terms of an adjective plus a noun describing the kind of person he’d appear to be, rather than saying he was without these qualities. From “without ambition” I got “ne’er-do-well” and from “without vitality” I got “listless.”–Towel

Tag list: @absolutebl @bengiyo @c1nto @come-back-serotonin @lurkingshan @my-rose-tinted-glasses @porridgefeast @sorry-bonebag @twig-tea @wen-kexing-apologist

[mondstalgia]

Gonna talk about what's happening on weibo on Tumblr too because it's so...fucking stupid.

Fans have sighted a woman with Louis and Nat at the airport on their flight home after the fanmeet, whom they assume is Louis girlfriend (he had his arm around her shoulder). Now they are claiming he betrayed Nat and many delulu fans are saying they won't support him anymore (including fansites which shocked me).

Louis then wrote a long instagram post basically explaining that he loves acting but doesn't want to hide who he is because in the end he is also just human. Personally I found it very mature and beautifully written, the way he always expresses himself has always been amazing. Unfortunately angry fans are misinterpreting it as him being selfish and blaming fans, which is ridiculous. He doesn't even mention fans, he talks about himself and what he wishes for in his life.

Personally this feels like a setback to times where idols and actors were seen as something beyond humans and dating was seen as a scandal. Currently he is receiving so much hate which I find ridiculous and dangerous. He didn't betray anyone. Nat was also literally there with them.

In interviews they have always stated that they talk a lot and even share secrets, there is no betrayal. If anyone knows Louis then it's Nat, way better than any fan ever could. Their private lives are non of our business, including their actual partners. Claiming that them living their lives is some sort of betrayal is insane to me, I'm too old for that kind of delusional talk. Unless someone committed a crime this reaction is absolute insanity.

I'm worried about his mental state, he's always been a bit gloomy, I actually do hope he has someone he loves who can support him through this. Poor guy, he just wants to do what he loves. This is so typical of the BL fandom, it makes me sick.

If you have the time maybe leave some supportive words on his social media ♡

[ql-of-all-time-bracket]

#1 QL of All Time

So I used to run the @ doyouknowthisql blog, but tumblr nerfed that blog a few months back, made it so that none of my posts would ever show up in the tags, which is rough when you're trying to run a blog with the goal of seeing how well a show is known amongst a community of people. long story short, tumblr never got back to me and I have made peace with that blog never returning. BUT!!!!!!! I was sitting here thinking "wow I have all these ql posters still downloaded, what can I do with them?" and the idea then occurred to me:

Tournament for the Best QL of all time!!!

This is going to be a massive 256 contestant tournament, in which qls of all shapes and sizes battle for dominance and only 1 will be the winner! But I need to define some stuff first!

What does QL mean?

QLs for the purposes of this competition are any live action tv shows, mini series, movies, or short films in which the main character is some flavor of queer and has an important plotline around the main character engaging in a queer relationship (romantic, sexual, queerplatonic, etc) with another important character. The relationship must be part of the overall story, not something that only shows up in like the last episode or is only implied/word of god to have happened (the exception being shows from countries where queer content is banned, like China. in those cases, censored shows that are adaptions of explicitly queer texts are allowed or shows in which the creators have stated explicitly that it is meant to be queer).

Country Masterlist

If you are looking for stuff from a specific country, you can click on one of these links for all the polls featuring qls from that country (and then further divided by bl and gl.)

Cambodia

BL

China

BL & GL

Japan

BL & GL

Philippines

BL & GL

South Korea

BL & GL

Taiwan

BL & GL

Thailand

BL & GL

Vietnam

BL & GL

What types of things can be submitted?

Any live action tv show, mini series, movie, or short film that fulfills the above requirement AND comes from an East Asian country is eligible. Examples of countries based on what was on the last blog: South Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, China, Japan, The Philippines, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Laos, Myanmar, and Cambodia. Any other countries or territories from this general region can be submitted. Only live action because I feel like things like animes and donghuas are communities of their own beyond the typical ql fandom.

How long will submissions be opened?

Submissions will be open until I fill the 256 spots. Trust me, there's way more than that many out there these days. When submissions start to slow down a lot, I'll supplement the list with others from all the stuff downloaded on my computer

Submit QLs here!!!

@bl-bracket @tournament-announcer @haveyouseenthisseries-poll (looking for my own bl-georg lol)

[wastingoxygensince1983]

In regards of Thai GL Shows

I truly believe that there's a negative consequence of the Americanization and globalization of concepts like queerness on the internet.

Because a lot of people has made the conclusion to think that every country and every place has the same level of growth regardless of representation in media, with years of development and improvement that the main stories presented in the United States shows and movies are shown.

Even now in 2024, there's situations where shows with sapphic main characters are easily cancelled, the characters killed or there's still story lines that make no sense after decades of having this time to improve(in 2024 there's a show, a very good one apparently that is still presenting a bisexual cheating trope).

I think that is obvious to contemplate and criticize these shows and stories because the writers, producers and everyone involve in these stories has time and ways to learn from previous projects.

Thailand is doing an effort. An effort that started it back in 2022 with Gap the series. It has been just 2 years since Thailand started a fully committed sapphic industry.

And the foundations are not the best, I give you that. The fact that most of the shows are some way to copy paste from the BL shows; somehow they have decided to capitalize in the chemistry of their actresses through in real shipping and the fact that apparently they are adapting the material of a single author(actually I want to send some books to see if they adapt them).

All of these indicates what is happening with the stories so far, that has create a disconnection with some of the main stories with what could be a major international fandom.

But I want to point out how significant they are right now in the idea to produce these shows and movies, and how it seems they want them.

The new freenbecky show and movie has been directly promoted by the government of Thailand(this is not directly a positive aspect but compared how other countries interact with sapphic shows in overall is something at least better).

And they are giving the time to work with them, creating an industry.

Almost all their shows has multiple queer couples and characters.

Besides some specific story lines, some shows has work mostly to focus on women and queer characters.

Even if some shows take a lot of time in other stuff; their focus is the love of the main characters that are sapphic women.

Is there any show besides the L word that has given us those treatments or something that still exists right now?

I don't know, like I said, they are not perfect; but seeing what they are doing and everything they are trying to accomplish; I think they deserve our attention.

[waitmyturtles]

THE MORNING AFTER: ONLY FRIENDS, EPISODE 12 -- WHEN ONLY FRIENDS GOT 2GETHER-ED

TRIGGER WARNING: EVERYONE'S UP FOR CRITICISM HERE, JOJO AND TEAM, FORCEBOOK, FIRSTKHAO, ALL OF THEM. Read at your peril.

Well. Big deep breaths. I spent a lot of time on a show that had been marketed as not-a-BL, that ended as a BL. As a mom with not that much time to spend on watching and writing on dramas that were marketed incorrectly, I am feeling some kinda way (fucking pissed off).

So many people had amazing takes yesterday, on both sides of the aisle, regarding how the show ended (pro-ending here, anti-ending here, here, here, here, here, and here, and my dear friends @neuroticbookworm and @lurkingshan did heavy lifting on reblogs yesterday, so stroll on over to their blogs for more).

I want to set up a constellation of points to touch upon before I get into the meat of this post.

1) I referred quite a bit to my review of Theory of Love throughout my watch of Only Friends. In that review, I meditate on how the majority of the general global public judges sex, and casual sex, and people who have sex and/or casual sex. Generally speaking -- even in countries that makes as progressive art on sex and sexuality as Thailand and the United States -- that's a rule of thumb that I can rely on. Sex is judged by the majority of the global public.

2) I hate to say it. I cannot believe this happened. But I was right about monogamy being an ultimate theme in Only Friends. Not just a theme, fam. A theme by which people judged others for having open, casual, and consensual sex. Queer sex. Queer sex that is so very often had outside of the constraints of a monogamous relationship.

There was a reason why that holiday party was populated by couples, except for Boston, and Boston had to grovel to them in apology for their friendship. In Only Friends: monogamy wins, and casual queer sex loses.

3) Unfortunately, in part though an analysis of Cheum inside of last week that I accidentally started (ha), I see that points 1 and 2 come together to have created a fabric and framework of judgement that Only Friends ended on.

The last paragraph in this excellent post by @benkaaoi notes that the assumption by a large portion of the OF fandom that the creative choices that were made to end this series were designed to save the sanctity -- economic and otherwise -- of the shipped pairs of ForceBook and FirstKhao. This rings true to me.

Most of the BL shows that I've watched this year are older shows, through my Old GMMTV Challenge, in which I've been studying the changes over time that GMMTV and other Thai networks, have made towards their editorial choices, attitudes, and risks in producing BLs. I included Only Friends on this syllabus to note the show's impact as a kind of zeitgeist measure of how much heat and literary controversy GMMTV could take in airing increasingly progressive queer media -- even though Only Friends wasn't originally intended to be a BL.

To the theory that Only Friends needed to save the ships... and to another theory that the ships needed to be saved in the most moralistically judgmental way that I could have ever imagined (I was actually blown away by how heavy-handed this messaging was) -- I look to the ending of 2gether.

The majority general reaction to the ending of 2gether from within the existing BL fandom in 2020, was one of guffawed incredulousness. BrightWin/SarawatTine did not kiss in the first season of 2gether. It took Aof Noppharnach to come in to make Still 2gether to indicate that these two young men may have been at least vaguely sexual with each other throughout the course of their fictional relationship.

Yet, 2gether was a massive success. Many theorize it was because 2gether was the first big BL to air during the start of the COVID pandemic, and new BL fans had time to be at home and watch shows. But I posit in my 2gether/Still 2gether review that 2gether was also successful PRECISELY BECAUSE IT LACKED SEX (and by sex here, I mean plain old kissin').

As I stated earlier: sex is judged by the majority of the global public. With BrightWin NOT kissing, new fans who may have been implicitly and/or explicitly turned off by physical depictions of queer love could glom comfortably onto 2gether, and watch a BL without the "threat" of physical depictions of two men expressing their love to each other.

Subsequently, BrightWin gained massive social media followings, 2gether made GMMTV buckets of money, and GMMTV went -- well, hot diggity.

Many of us had impressions of Only Friends as...something else than it ended up being. Early on, Jojo Tichakorn, for instance, cited an early non-GMMTV, non-BL show, Gay OK Bangkok, that he and Aof Noppharnach worked on in 2016 and 2017, as being referential to Only Friends. Gay OK Bangkok centered on a group of queer friends, mostly cisgender men with Jennie Panhan in the mix, as they lived their lives and dated away in Bangkok.

I'll tell ya, GOKB didn't end the way Only Friends did, and I'll get into that more in a bit. I believe @benkaaoi, @lurkingshan, and others are absolutely right that the ultimate moralization on casual sex that this show depicted -- and how Only Friends punished Boston for his casual sex -- was an economic decision designed to reflect on the sanctity of monogamy that shipped couples like ForceBook and FirstKhao can sell back to their fans, fans that may have actually flocked to GMMTV shows from 2gether, and that demand a fantasy of devoted monogamy from both fictional characters and professional actors who are actually only just doing fan service to earn their livings. GMMTV has known for a long time how to make money, and money the network doth has made from Only Friends, and from shipping their ships around the world to service the growing fandom.

Casual sex in fiction, casual sex that breaks up the ships.... fucks that economic shit all up.

GMMTV has taught us our lesson, a lesson that we had already learned from the no-kissing rule of 2gether. Loose lips shall not sink ships at this network. And I think we lost a chance for a big and progressively artistic zeitgeist that GMMTV could have taken risks on, if it had the courage to risk depicting something truly novel.

I want to note quickly another framework that I dug into while I was watching this show. I sent a flare to @lurkingshan before I started watching the episode that I was going to, in part, watch this last episode from my personal Asian lens. I wanted to ask myself, as I was watching this disaster -- is there anything happening here that strikes my heart with fear and doom as an Asian?

Indeed, yes. I didn't expect it, but there was a dialogue on individualism vs. collectivism.

Boston. My dear, sweet Boston. Boston, named after a city so very distant from Bangkok.

Boston was punished by his group of friends because he didn't adhere to the rules of the group. His individualistic actions and preferences -- his preferences to "roll alone," as Nick stated, would not work in the frameworks of either monogamy with Nick and/or the group dynamics of the hostel crew.

The link I linked above is an amazing answer to an inquiry I posed to dear @absolutebl last year about how Asian social collectivist paradigms are depicted in BLs. In that question-and-answer dialogue, I asked ABL Sensei about the motif of queer revelations in BLs, and how seemingly straight characters respond in kind to being approached with a proposition to a queer dalliance and/or relationship. Generally speaking, the Asian collectivist mindset is to at least attempt to respond in kind to those kinds of propositions, as one's behavioral habits are designed to be responsive to others instinctually, as opposed to only servicing oneself. To only service oneself is not only seen as selfish, but also as disturbing to the general flow of public existence among one's societies. To respond in kind means that you will not cause potentially disturbing angst to another individual or group. (Collectivism explains why Asian countries performed much better with mask mandates during the pandemic than we in the States did.)

So -- Boston filming Ray, Boston sleeping with Top, created waves in the friend group. He was so severely punished for it.

And the show iterates, and repeats, Nick's preference that Boston move forward alone in Boston's life, because of Boston's tendencies to make decisions that suit himself. As an Asian-American, I mutter to myself: god forbid.

Nick will not commit to Boston -- and yet, will also condemn Boston for making his own decisions outside of the specter of a monogamy that does not exist between Nick and Boston, and that Boston will still get judged for, as referenced in the Sand/Nick conversation depicted above.

In other words: if Boston makes a decision for himself? That's punishable. Because it might hurt someone else's feelings -- a someone else that actually hasn't committed to Boston, and/or allowed Boston to commit himself to.

This group caught Boston in a moralistic and collectivist catch-22, the likes of which I just would have never expected from Jojo and team, even if the creative team faced the economic pressures of the GMMTV bigwigs. I'm sorry to state that I am beyond disappointed in this condemnation of individualism, sending Boston alone, judged, and friendless, off to New York City to live in, what, the immoral boundaries of Chelsea? Homey, get a fucking SWEET-ASS PAD, and FUCK THESE LOSERS, leave 'em BEHIND in your cloud of airplane gas emissions. See you at the La Quinta rooftop bar on 32nd Street, friendo.

Only Friends could have ended so much better. And I understand that in the Only Friends novel, published AFTER the script was finished, that it did end somewhat better for Boston (cc @jinitak, reporting from Thailand, thank you for this heads-up about the novel!).

So. Any-fucking-way. Do y'all know how Gay OK Bangkok ended?

Of many lovely endings for the various GOKB characters, an older main character, Aof, was dating a much younger character, Big. (CC to @neuroticbookworm for our quick convo on this last night.)

Aof was sex-averse. Big wanted lots of sex. Big slept with a lot of people. He loved Aof. Aof couldn't handle Big having sex with other people, and they broke up. It was a lovingly handled break-up, written just gorgeously by Aof Noppharnach.

After their break-up, I thought Big would disappear from the show. Instead. Instead! Nong Big, the little brother to the core group of queer friends that centered GOKB, was welcomed back with open arms. Arm, Pom, Sathang (played by an effervescent Jennie Panhan), and others toasted to Big, telling him he would always be family, no matter if him and his ex, Aof, had broken up. In the queer circles of friends that I'm a part of, exes are not as commonly excommunicated as they are in straight circles.

Only Friends could have been this. Something, a little something, like this.

Instead, Only Friends punished a friend for acting outside of the rules of their group.

Boston was punished because.... because Only Friends had to end up being a BL. For the sake of the moolah, for the sake of collectivism, for the sake of the shippers who'll buy tickets around the world to see ForceBook and FirstKhao perform fan service on stage.

I just didn't think that the show would be so brutal, on so many levels, in the end, to people who want to have casual sex. I don't think any of us expected this. But, it's over, it's done, and the piece has been said -- GMMTV said, no casual sex today, and here's how we actually feel about it.

I'll see you over on Gagaoolala for Playboyy. Deuces, OF.

(It was an absolute pleasure writing meta with the Ephemerality Squad -- onto the next one! @lurkingshan @neuroticbookworm @ranchthoughts @twig-tea @slayerkitty @thatgirl4815 @distant-screaming @clara-maybe-ontheroad)

[yinwaryuri]

Seeing a lot of upset posts about how the show ended with Boston and feeling like something really went over a few heads. Do I also believe Boston deserved better? Yes. But let's be realistic in the way Jojo and Ninew approached this.

Boston and his promiscuity have been the target of harsh judgements from episode one. And the writers have stated that he has a moral code, it's just very different from others. I was never expecting him to state it outright, that it would just be a thing worth paragraphs of speculative meta, but he does!

Boston stated his definition of boyfriend. If he wants to be exclusive, that's for all the emotional bonding that he desires with someone special, but does not deny him the ability to fulfill his physical desires with whomever he wishes. That's not just polyamory, it's a very specific kind!!! And it's entirely different from the traditional sort of relationship society has accepted. The thing is, he wouldn't have discovered that possibility without knowing Nick.

Boston did genuinely fall for Nick. But how could he have handled that properly when he has no experience being loved and has never learned how to love someone back? Moreover, how could he come to the conclusion that he likes being exclusive in one way but not another without absolutely fumbling the bag with someone who's on a different page? It's not exactly Nick's fault that he prefers physical affection to be exclusive as well, that's just how he is. There couldn't have been any discussion about this, it was a discovery in the making.

The truth is Boston would still have a hard time finding happiness in Thailand due to the political climate, especially with his father being a politician. He's gay and that alone makes achieving his dreams more difficult, but being as promiscuous as he is means even a majority of the queer community will shut him out. He's better off moving to the states where at least he has rights and better acceptance for who he is. And that's what happened.

Because having a sexual or romantic appetite outside of monogamy is still looked down on. I still see it in the BL fandom. I see it just in general. 3 Will Be Free is so often cited as a must-watch, but how many people stick to their comfort branded pairings?* How many people have made or heard jokes about the "Seattle polycule"? How many romantic aces and allosexual aros get othered and excluded and judged for their identity?

Jojo said there was no intended message, but that doesn't mean there isn't one to be found. Boston's arc is a prime example of how slutty queers get treated even by their own peers, even by people who care about them most. It's a cry from the cold and lonely dark that if we think these people deserve better, we need to change existing paradigms and find how we can give them that!

Nick wasn't prepared to do that because he is still hurting, and that's also okay. Not everyone has to change themselves to make the puzzle pieces fit. Boston and Nick's story centers around that so much. Nick being jealous and trying to copy Top, Boston trying to be what he thinks a boyfriend is - they only hurt each other because the parts that don't fit are digging in.

I hope we get a second season, but if not friends, remember Boston. He represents such a particular demographic that gets hated on and ignored constantly, and they deserve a chance. They're not easy, but that doesn't mean they're not worth it. Remember Nick too. We all have a Nick in some manner - someone that made us want to try, but no matter how much we cared for each other it just wasn't going to work. Family, friends, partners, whoever.

Instead of being outraged with the show, be outraged with society. Do something about it. Be kinder. Community is important, now more than ever. I cannot possibly overstate how much we need community, especially among minorities.

*this isn't meant to be judgmental toward fans who prefer branded pairings or aren't interested in that particular show. I know watching anything requires time and energy and scratching a certain itch at the right moment. It is, however, a concern that so many fans complained about numerous aspects of OF to the point where the creators went to the effort of explaining themselves on a weekly basis and editing certain parts to avoid backlash. I mentioned 3 Will Be Free because it's another example of Jojo's work. Many BL fans have heard of it, but only a small portion seem to have watched, and that can be an indicator of certain biases. This is not to imply anyone who hasn't seen it has said biases and is only intended to encourage reflection if needed.

[firstkanaphans]

i saw your tags on the gmmtv post (which i think makes for a really good discussion) and just wanted to link you to the video of prem briefly talking about his sexuality. i consider him part of the community no doubt and hate that for some this was 'too vague'. back when it happened. so maybe that's another element to the topic, some of these actors not bothering w/ labels/'official' coming outs (i mean this positively, good for them)/comments like this getting downplayed by part of the fandom. x(.)com/athena_viiv/status/1634002509193973760

Thank you so much for sending this in! I thought it was Prem but I couldn’t find the source and I didn’t want to out the wrong Wabi Sabi alum. But yes, I definitely agree that the fandom response to conversations like this are part of the problem because how much clearer could he be? “I used to think men could only date women, but after acting in BL series, I don’t care about gender anymore. If I like someone, I like them.” That’s pretty fucking clear.

The problem, of course, is that a large portion of the fandom thinks it’s only okay to be gay in fiction, not reality, so they’ll twist their fave’s words to make them fit the heterosexual ideal in their head. I remember that pride photoshoot Namtan did where she explicitly stated she was part of the community and people were like, “She doesn’t understand what she’s saying. She’s just an ally.” Even though she’s a grown ass woman who has literally talked openly about dating women 🙃

So yes, I guess Prem is holding down the fort for the queers at GMMTV. He’s not the hero we expected, but he’s the one we deserve.

[I also finally found the Tumblr version of that video if anyone would like to reblog it!]

[pharawee]

Thank you so much for your thorough response. I'm not always good at following production companies. Please ignore this if I'm overstepping, I've already asked for a lot of your time and research, but other than 9naa are there other companies you boycott because of how they treat actors? I know there were some issues with 2moons and I know there were some issues for Saint, though those were long before my time in the fandom.

That's completely understandable. There's so many companies now that do BL - some of them aren't even primarily into entertainment (a skincare company did The Promise, and I think there's at least one car dealership delving into BL things now too, while other companies are purely for investment and why would you even follow those if they're only about money?).

I'm trying to stay up-to-date because I'm interested in the industry side of things but I probably missed a lot of stuff as well.

Here's what I know for sure:

Motive Village

Motive Village did 2Moons. Then they did 2Moons2 with the same characters (and story!) but all different actors. THEN they did 2Moons: The Ambassador with (some of) the same characters (and story) and different actors again.

Why did they do that? Probably because they're so bad at managing their actors that they're all collectively running away as soon as possible. But that's not even the worst part. One of the actors from 2Moons2, Din Teerapat (then known as Earth Teerapat), was actively excluded and blocked from all promotion while being completely trapped in his contract. Other actors weren't paid and were badly mismanaged. Then there's very serious allegations that Din might have been (I'm phrasing this as carefully as possible) harrassed by one of MV's higher-ups. Din never spoke about it and has since decided to move on.

Aam Anusorn, who directed 2Moons2 (and isn't related to MV in any way) has spoken up about this, and his series Call It What You Want is supposedly based on some of what happened.

Other actors who "escaped" MV include Bas Suradej, Copter Panuwat, Kimmon Warudom (who went on to sign with Star Hunter for a while and did the very delightful Gen Y which is basically 2Moons fanfiction), Tae Darvid & Tee Thanapon (who did Triage), Boun Noppanut (who was never with MV but wasn't paid for his guest role in 2Moons), Joong Archen, Pavel Naret, Benjamin Brasier & Dome Woranart. The latest escapee seems to be Park Anandatej who will be in Monster next Door.

Benjamin Brasier and Dome Woranart seem to be back to working with Motive Village recently and I'm honestly a bit ?? ??? about it.

Y.Entertainment

Y.Ent did Unforgotten Night and For Him the Series. Recently, the leads of For Him, Tor Atagorn and Dew Nitikorn (along with Yoon Phusanu who starred in Unforgotten Night and had a cut guest role in For Him), have come forward saying that they were never paid for their work in For Him. Additionally, Tor has opened up about being continuously harrassed and stalked by someone on and off set during filming. It affected him so badly that he is now in therapy and on medication for depression and anxiety.

Just yesterday Yoon Phusanu held a press conference because he still hasn't been paid. He's one of the few actors who actually have the means to hire lawyers and go against his company. His lawyer has stated that not many young actors in Thai BL can afford to do the same.

9NAA

9NAA did Check Out, Venus in the Sky and, most recently, Kiseki Chapter 2. You know about 9NAA already but for everyone else reading this and wanting to know what's going on with them, here's a short summary.

Here's some other companies involved in Thai BL who have done some mildly questionable things:

Maximon who have since rebranded as Harikarn (with another company now named Maximon that might also have been emerged from the original Maximon... it's complicated) might have not paid their actors for Chains of Heart until the series had long finished airing. Haii Sarunsathorn and Boom Raweewit, the leads, made some very carefully worded joke tweets about it - which kind of makes you go hmmmm. There was also a freelancer who spoke up about not getting paid for his art, but nothing more ever came of it. Both Maximon and Harikarn have since ramped up production again - with some of the same actors - so I'm not especially concerned for the moment.

Well.Thailand recently annouced a bunch of new BLs and then promptly went bancrupt. One of their former producers immediately picked up the slack and founded EntSync in order to take over all projects and talent. They've already held the blessing ceremony for Black Forest and everything seems to be back to normal for the moment except for Born to be Y the series which should have aired this month but has since been indefinitely postponed.

Fix Entertainment is behind The Whisperer and is holding the series' final episode hostage because apparently a planned fanmeeting didn't sell enough tickets so they seem to have run out of funds. This is very ?? ???

Studio on Fire recently announced that one of the leads of their upcoming series Live in Love will be replaced, citing creative differences and "different work attitudes" (hate that phrase yet?) as the reason. Weirdly enough, said lead (Non Ratchanon) is from another company and was part of an acting pair with their own actor Hearth Chindanai. Hmmmmmm.*

*This kind of reminds me of what happened with Saint Suppapong during and after Love By Chance when he was basically almost bullied out of the industry because he wasn't with the same company as all of the other actors.

As I said, there's probably more but I didn't include actor scandals, unfounded rumours or stuff that has already been resolved.

[olderthannetfic]

I don't even think this is the type of thing you would normally get Asks about, but at this point I genuinely can't think of anyone better to come to and ask for their opinion.

I don't know if any of your followers have seen this situation as it's been occurring, but this massively popular mobile game that's been blowing up recently (called Love and Deep Space) has incurred a lot of drama and discourse as of a few days ago.

So LADS is an otome game, with a visibly femme/female protagonist who romances the male love interests. And a few days ago, the dev team behind LADS introduced this rule to all of their official groups and servers like Facebook and Discord: "Absolutely no BL materials are allowed to be posted or discussed in official spaces"

So, naturally, quite a few people are upset about what is basically a "no gays allowed" rule being forced onto the fandom. Because the "no BL" rules includes the posting of ANY queer content with "official" #LADS tags. Which for platforms like Twitter is absolutely unreasonable. They're stating that fanart of M/M ships can't be posted with any tags for the source material? It's ridiculous.

There's been people trying to defend it, saying things like "oh it's because of CN censorship laws" despite the fact that LADS isn't a CN game and the company isn't a CN company. Or "they only banned queer stuff in their official Discord and official Facebook group and for the official LADS tags on socmed!" even though that is still censorship and erasure of queer content (and somehow the fact that it's officially sanctioned makes it okay?)

But the worst part is the fact that there’s been an EXPLOSION of aggressive homophobia within the fanbase. It's as if all the cishet women who play the game were just waiting for their chance to go mask off, because the second those "no BL" rules were put in place the rampant harrassment and bullying started. People are getting attacked for M/M ship fanart, people are getting attacked for having male self-inserts or male MC or OC designs, and several artists have already been harrassed into deleting all of their artwork and leaving the fandom.

There's now a LOUD number of fans screeching that otome games "are only for girls" and that anyone even slightly queer or masc-leaning "doesn't belong in otome fandoms" and "needs to go play something else"

I've seen baseless accusations that "men want to force us to play as a gay male MC!" and "gay men are demanding that LADS turn the female MC male!" when absolutely no one anywhere has ever said anything close to that.

I have tried telling these fans that queer people, including queer men, have ALWAYS played otome games, that gay men and queer people have ALWAYS been a part of the otome community from the very beginning, but anyone who deviates even slightly from the new majority of "no gay shit allowed, otome is for straight women only and everyone else kys" gets immediately shouted down and harrassed/attacked. I know a lot of people have deleted the game and have stopped playing because of both the official "no gays" rule and also the extremely toxic and homophobic fanbase.

I was wondering if you knew about any resources (blogs, articles, anything) talking about the history of queer people playing otome/dating sim games, or even if you happen to know anything anecdotal about it yourself. Because we've ALWAYS been here, otome games have never been JUST for cishet women. I'm also just wondering what your/your followers' thoughts are about this whole mess in general.

--

Oof. I don't play many games of that sort, so I don't know a ton about their history, but there has often been pointless beef between the more self inserty types and the more m/m shipping types.

I don't think you need evidence that people besides cishet women consume media X. It should be self-evident from being a human who lives in the world. These people are denying it because they don't want it to be true, not because they do or don't have evidence.

"LOL, you're a homophobe in 2024? Criiiinge!" is the only appropriate type of response to these idiots. Facts won't help.

[welivetodream]

BSD and Shipping

Since Valentine's day was coming I was interested in discussing a huge part of the BSD fandom: Shipping

( ⚠️ RANT INCOMING. DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED ABOUT OPINIONS ON SHIPPING. PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL TOWARDS OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS IN COMMENTS AND REBLOGS. ⚠️)

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So where to start?

For a long time I have been noticing one specific trend in the BSD subreddit. And that are posts that talk about unpopular opinions/Headcanons/fav or least fav ships etc.

What I find interesting about these posts is that one thing is always in the forefront, and it's the debates about the sexualities of the characters in BSD. While Headcanons can be annoying and some people do push their opinions on others, there is nuance that is lacking in the community when discussing some topics. Finding posts about Mori being a pedo and how Dazai is unlikable or overrated is very easy and the discussions surrounding topics like that are always the same. People would pick sides and end up writing a lot about what their opinion is and while that's valid, it also ends up in fandom wars where it's hard to like or dislike something without your head being in the chopping block.

Now let's go to the original topic: shipping. To examine the environment of shipping culture in BSD fandom we have to start with the headcanons that people have adopted for sexualities of the characters.

1. THE PROBLEM WITH HETRO-NORMATIVITY

Now, the posts about shipping often contain a lot of people writing paragraphs and paragraphs about what ships they like or dislike.

One of the ships that takes the most bullets for its existence and popularity is Soukoku or Shin Soukoku. There are lots of comments about these ships that "remind" us that canonically Dazai, Chuuya, Atsushi and Akutagawa are all straight. They should not be shipped with each other because they are straight.....

Dazai flirts with women and wants to commit a double suicide with a beautiful woman. Atsushi is very clearly set up to end up with Lucy. Akutagawa couldn't care less about romance as we see how dismissive he is with Higuchi. And Chuuya.......wears fashionable outfits and has a slutty waist, but we won't comment on that.

Dazai and Chuuya have a lot of queer subtext that anyone can see. Akutagawa and Atsushi are pointed out to complete each other and complement each other several times. These ships don't exist out of thin air.

Now there is nothing WRONG with anyone having the headcanon of any of these (or any other) characters to be straight, after all we are not given enough information about their sexualities. But by stating "Dazai is straight, he likes women" or "this ship doesn't make sense because they are not gay" not only does it imply that characters can't have other preferences but also that being straight is the default, which it isn't.

This is coming from a straight woman from a very conservative country where we don't have exposure to queer media. It took me a long time to stop being so heteronormative. I think assuming someone is straight until they prove to you or tell you directly is just as bad and as assuming someone is gay. I think we have come far along as a community to understand that it shouldn't be our first instinct to assume everything is heterosexual until we get some sort of proof or stamp of approval from its creator.

Asagiri isn't going to stand up in a stage in front of the world and say "yeah Dazai and Chuuya have gay feelings for eachother" because the manga is from Japan. If there were explicit queer characters then BSD would no longer get the label of being universal because of certain censorship laws. Even if it's getting more acceptable in Japan to show queer characters in manga and anime, BSD isn't a romance or slice of life story. It's a seinen, not a BL/GL. Besides, Asagiri shows little to no interest in romantic relationships in his story.

So by saying "______ character is straight because we don't have any other information proving otherwise " isn't a valid excuse to tell shippers not to ship certain characters, it's making it seem like heterosexuality is the default state of being.

That also doesn't mean you can say "Dazai is gay, don't ship him with women" because that's the same thing. If you think Dazai is gay/bi/pan/etc. then that's your opinion, pushing that on others only worsens the rep of skk shippers especially.

You have the right to like or dislike certain ships or have your own Headcanons. This is why even feminising certain characters also isn't as problematic as people call it. It's just a different take on a character (but that time people were correcting those who called Sigma a "he" instead of "they" was genuinely wrong). Headcanons of some random online stranger doesn't make anything canon. So if you find yourself around annoying people like that, just leave the conversation.

2. WHY SUBTEXT MATTERS

Subtext is really important when discussing media; in case of BSD whether it is the anime, manga, anthologies or LNs. BSD is not new to subtext, even from the start of the story there is a lot of queer subtext that people can figure out easily.

When we are introduced to Dazai and Chuuya's partnership in the first season, it's clear as day to see the dynamic and its underlying tension. We can see how close those two are that their relationship can't be explained just as simple partners turned enemies. Time and time again we get so much queer subtext between Skk's interactions. The entire 15 arc and well as Stormbringer shows us the bond and trust between the two as well as the intense amount of gay scenes. At this point I am sure Hoshikawa is a hardcore skk shipper. All of their official art is also gay (that could be queerbating though). Asagiri must know what the public thinks about Skk and still writes subtext about them. It makes sense why this would be a popular ship; it's not made out of thin air with no context (*ahem* Kousano *ahem*) but has actual roots and the proof to back it up too.

SSKK is a similar story, it's not my favourite but it has been growing on me ever since S5. Similar to skk, we get a lot of subtext and homoerotic moments between Aku and Atsushi. They are yin and yang. They are enemies that sought to kill eachother but still team up to fight together. Atsushi is literally the centre of Akutagawa's life since the beginning. Atsushi and Akutagawa grow together as characters and as different as they appear are similarly looking for one thing: validation and acceptance. Their relationship is so compelling in so many levels that it too makes sense why their ship is as popular as it is (especially regarding recent events in the story)

Ranpoe.....let's be real, those two got married a long time ago. They are the definition of "be gay, solve crimes". They are undeniably a cute ship regardless of whether it's one sided or not. Fyolai as well makes complete sense with the context behind Fyodor and Nikolai's relationship, while I also consider it quite one-sided as it's mostly Nikolai that is fascinated by Fyodor (and wants to kiss kill him) Fukumori isn't my cup of tea but it too has enough subtext to back it up, same with FukuFuku.

While I would love to talk about other ships, I wanted to show the reasoning behind the most popular pairings.

Personally, as a multishipper, it's very fun for me to have so many characters to examine and spend time obsessing over.

Now, there are straight ships that I like too as well as ships I don't ship for myself.

The reason I don't like Yosano and Ranpo together is because I see them in the same position as Kyouka and Atsushi. The scene of Ranpo recruiting Yosano (who worked with Mori) into the ADA parallels Atsushi saving Kyouka (who also worked with Mori). I consider them siblings and like how they are platonic instead of it being the typical "a boy and girl can't be besties". Another ship I love and cherish is AtsuLucy because it's so adorable, Lucy is my fav Guild member and her and Atsushi are "Girlboss and Malewife". I ship Tachihara with Gin, Higuchi and Gin as well as Kunikida with Yosano (surprisingly I don't find the appeal of Kunizai; though I still like that ship from time to time, just don't ship it actively). I prefer not to ship Sigma with anyone (he is still a baby to me)

So it's not that BSD doesn't have straight ships, when you make a majority male cast and have them be rivals or enemies, obviously people will ship m/m more. Especially if there is more subtext and tension behind the male characters and they have little to no interactions with women.

And I might get some heat for saying this:

It is okay for most of the BSD characters to be considered queer because if comp het is so normal in anime/manga then why can't the opposite be the case? We already have enough series with little to no representation, so why can't we have a bunch of queer characters?

3. TOXIC SHIPPERS AND THE FALL OF FANDOM CULTURE

I have been raving for the past two sections and defending the shipping community. But it isn't a conversation with nuance if I don't address the problem of a small group of people that take shipping too seriously. The reason why fandom itself gets a bad rep is because of shipping more often than not. I will admit, it's not all sunshine and rainbows when people argue about their fav ships. And a lot of the aforementioned ships are to a point, toxic. Yes, some shippers are annoying and ruin everyone else's fun. There are ships that don't make sense at all.

But that doesn't mean that a small part of people should represent others who are just having harmless fun and don't even believe their ships to ever become canon. Let's be real it's highly unlikely we will have any couples by the end of the show (the closest could be AtsuLucy). Sometimes people are too intense about ships and that goes for both antis and pros. Both of the extreme are toxic. And instead of shoving down our opinions down other people's throats, we should be celebrating the very story that brought us together in the first place.

Yeah it can be hard for those who don't like shipping at all to enjoy the story and have discussions. But we have to remember the roots of fandom culture start with shipping. It's always been the case and it's always been the most popular way to discuss one's favourite fictional work. From Sherlock to Genshin to boy bands to streamers, everything has been shipped and will always be. There is a reason why AO3 works so well.

4. SO WHAT?

The ships are what brought me to BSD in the first place. I wanted to explore the world of BSD because of its characters and their dynamics. And a lot of other people have gotten into this fandom for the exact same reason. While there are unflattering moments in our fandom, that doesn't mean it's not a place for people to come together and have some fun. Whether you ship or not. Whether you like fanfictions or not. We have to accept that there are a lot of pros to shipping too. It brings our ideas together, makes us feel giddy inside or tears our heart apart, it produces beautiful fanarts and fanfictions, it makes us analyse characters, it makes us look deeper into the story....and it makes us wait for what's next to come.

And I want nothing more than to be able to enjoy shipping without the guilt that comes with it.

Shipping isn't free from its flaws, but it is not defined only by its flaws. It might not be for everyone, but it is someone's everything. So even if you don't like it in particular, let's not spoil other people's fun. One's trash is another's treasure.

~Peace out 🕊️✌️

[ikeoji-subs]

Zettai BL Ni Naru Sekai VS Zettai BL Ni Naritakunai Otoko 2024 - Episode 3 Eng Sub

VS CONFESSION and VS CUPID

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translation notes:

about “suki” vs. “tsuki” (3:32)

This is explained in a brief translation note in the subtitles, and there isn’t a ton left to say about it that wasn’t stated there. But due to the amount of dialogue happening in this scene, we had to keep the note as short as possible and we weren’t able to keep it onscreen for very long, so it still bears mentioning here. 

In Japanese, the words “suki” and “tsuki” sound quite similar. “Suki,” as a lot of BL viewers know, means “like” or “liking,” whereas “tsuki” means “moon.” Hatano is saying “suki desu” to Mob, which in this context means he’s basically declaring his love for him. Mob is using the resemblance between “suki” and “tsuki” to pretend that he thinks Hatano said something to him about the moon. Then he uses the English word “moon” a couple of times, seemingly to ensure that Hatano won’t be able to turn around and take his “tsuki” as “suki.” 

As Mob says, usually a maneuver like this would make the person declaring their feelings get so self-conscious that they’d back off. But Hatano’s not a typical suitor, as Mob soon learns.–Towel

about “perfect match” (15:31)

I mentioned in our translation note about episode 1 that the red and blue beams that shoot out of Mob’s eyes seemed like a reference to his character from Kamen Rider Build. This time, I kind of made my own Easter egg about that show.

I mentioned before that Inukai Atsuhiro played the main Rider–and title character–on Kamen Rider Build. Kamen Riders always have some kind of transformation item, sometimes with interchangeable components. They're typically some kind of object attached to a belt, sort of like a massive buckle, that you can put smaller items into. The components that Build (a.k.a. Kiryu Sento) used at first (and to an extent, later in the series) involved “bottles” that were each named after some kind of object or animal. He would use two at a time, and the resulting juxtaposition (e.g. RabbitTank) would be reflected in his suit form somehow. But not every combination of bottles worked together, and some resulted in more effective suit forms than others. When Sento found a really good combination, his transformation device would designate it a “best match.” A “best match” resulted in more strength and more effective abilities to fight villains. 

Sento showing Banjou how best matches work

The phrase “best match” didn’t exactly fit here. But when I was polishing up this line and the word “match” came to mind, I felt like I had to at least try to word it in a way that would allow me to say something reminiscent of it--hence "perfect match." I hope some Build fans will recognize the sorta-reference!–Towel

Banjou annoying Sento by guessing a best match combination on his first try

Tag list: @absolutebl @bengiyo @c1nto @come-back-serotonin @lurkingshan @my-rose-tinted-glasses @porridgefeast @sorry-bonebag @twig-tea @wen-kexing-apologist