#the real meaning of Hogswatch

[pratchettquotes]

Holiday Theme: Happy Hogswatch

"This is disgusting, this whole business," said Constable Visit. "It's the worship of idols--"

"It's a genuine Burleigh and Stronginthearm double-action triple-cantilever crossbow with a polished stock and engraved silver facings!"

"--a crass commercialization of a date which is purely of astronomical significance," said Visit, who seldom paid attention when he was in mid-denounce. "If it is to be celebrated at all, then--"

"I saw this in Bows and Ammo! It got Editor's Choice in the 'What to Buy When Rich Uncle Sidney Dies' category! They had to break both the reviewer's arms to get him to let go of it!"

"--ought to be commemorated in a small service of--"

"It must cost more'n a year's salary! They only make 'em to order! You have to wait ages!"

"--religious significance." It dawned on Constable Visit that something behind him was amiss.

"Aren't we going to arrest this imposter, corporal?" he said.

Corporal Nobbs looked blearily at him through the mists of possessive pride.

"You're foreign, Washpot," he said. "I can't expect you to know the real meaning of Hogswatch."

Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

[thiswaycomessomethingwicked]

okay, it's been a couple of hours and nobody asked yet, so *now* i am asking about Downey

First impression

I first met him in Hogfather and I was like: WHO IS THIS MAN AND CAN WE HAVE MORE OF HIM???

Then in Men at Arms I was like: YES, THIS ASSHOLE. HE HAS RETURNED, IF BRIEFLY. I was so chuffed when he became head of the Guild.

In Nigh Watch I just was like: please lord in heaven, I need more of this ABSOLUTE MENACE of a man. Why are we always reading about the Watch and Vimes? I give 0 shits about him. Give me more of this asshole of an assassin and his love of dogs and insects.

Impression now

I mean, Favourite. I love him. He can do no wrong. He should, in fact, be more of a menace and a nuisance to everyone.

I feel like I've rambled enough about Downey on this blog for most people to know my views on him. But I do like that the bits of information we have on him paint a surprisingly complex picture for someone who gets like five to ten minutes of page time whenever he's in a book.

As I know you and I have discussed this before, but I love the example of: We know that in his late forties/early fifties he listens for the Hogfather's arrival (and knows he is real, this is not a widely accepted thing in AM). Think of seventeen-year old Downey, what a lout he was, what an absolute prick, what an unaware and childish youth, who grew up to be a man who knows the Hogfather is real, listens for him on Hogswatch Eve while he's up late working (on a holiday), and has an open door policy for his students should they ever need him. A man who is described as amiable and gentlemanly with a kind smile (just don't eat a humbug if he offers you one. Some of Downey's chaotic and destructive tendencies remain into adulthood). Like, that's some Growth.

And to the Vetinari Ask that I got - I think that's the thing we don't see with Vetinari. There's no evident growth. Downey clearly has gone through some phenomenal changes to go from That Asshole at seventeen to the caring Guild leader at fifty. Still a snob and still a bit of a class a bastard, to be sure, some things don't change, but there was clearly still a lot of goddamn growth that happened. And that's interesting!

Anyway, love this mad lad.

Favorite moment

Probably Gaspode's description of Downey to Angua in Men at Arms where he's like "yeah, we like Downey. He gives us treats and pets, lets us roam and romp about Guild grounds, and also kills a lot of people very successfully. We street hounds are Pro-Downey for Guild Leader" and Angua is like ".....thanks?"

The Night Watch bit with him is also a favourite moment. He's so awkward and horrible and I love him. Even Ludo is like sighing and going, "For some reason that man is my best friend and I don't know why."

(tbf we don't know if Ludo and Downey were friends, there's no evidence in canon to this effect, but I've head-canoned they are so roll with it.)

Idea for a story

I want more Downey & Jocelyn adventures because I love Jocelyn.

I would love a story of Downey and Vetinari and the rest of the usual crew (Vimes, Sybil, Angua etc.) out on some sort of diplomatic mission to idk, Brindisi or something. But it's one of those diplomatic trips that are half-holiday half-work.

Downey is just wine-drunk constantly on the good Brindisi wine and trying to explain to Vimes how wine tasting works and Vimes is like "I don't drink and also it seems fake to me" and Downey is like "you're such a plebian". Sybil is nerding out on local dragon hatcheries that are initiating a new conservation program. She comes back covered in dirt and mud with her hair sticking up at all angles and crowing about the latest thing she saw and Vimes is like "that woman is the love of my life."

Vetinari is the only one actually doing anything useful but he makes Downey come with him to schmooze the local nobility because I've always weirdly head-canoned Downey's family as being of Brindisi extraction for some reason. Anyway, Downey is at these functions being all Posh and stuff and someone is like "Downey, Downey - you're Amos' boy aren't you?" And Downey is like, ".........I have this distinction, yes." Afterwards he refuses to go to functions until he can vet the list of attendees.

Vimes just grouses about the food and Downey is like "try the squid ink noodles, they're great" and Vimes is like "absolutely not." Vetinari is just like "ok, question Downey, who looked at squid ink and thought: I should put that on the pasta?" and Downey is like, "Someone with a great love for aesthetics. So probably an assassin."

Anyway, things are gently chaotic in their usual fashion until some sort of crises happens. Downey needs to either steal something or inhume someone or both. It becomes an insane heist story at this point and everyone is piled onto a tricycle going downhill at top speeds with no breaks.

Unpopular opinion

Like you, I think he's smart. He's not Vetinari levels of smart, but no one is because Vetinari is inhuman/impossible levels of smart. But you don't survive Snapcase and the politics of the Assassins Guild eventually become Master of the Guild while being a complete buffoon.

So I think he's savvy, he's good at politcking to a certain degree, he's got a half-decent risk-assessment matrix built into his brain. We know he's a good assassin, and that takes some skill and intelligence.

So yeah, I think he's smarter than he's sometimes portrayed. Even the canon is annoyingly inconsistent/illogical when it comes to this. Because TP wants him to be the butt of a joke and TP goes for people being "stupid" as funny so, that leads to illogical character actions when you look at them in the broader context of their own history and the world they operate in.

Favorite relationship

Aside from Vetinari?

I like the implications of there being a bit of a Downey-Mrs Palm-Boggis triumvirate in the City Council. Downey is clearly looked down on by Venturi and Selachii since he's a "jumped up" lord, not from their class. So they'll all ally together when it suits them, as we see in a few of the books, but they're not regular bedfellows.

Downey seems to be friendly with the older Lord Rust, Vimes certainly seems to think that they are friends, but unclear with the son/younger Rust. How much is the two actually liking each other or Rust doing the "noblesse oblige" by taking the new blood under his wing is never stated.

But whenever Downey is really getting into mischief and mucking about doing nonsense its with Mrs Palm or Boggis or both and I really like that. I think it says something his malleability. He goes up and down the class ladder, basically, in terms of friendships and political allies. Which is an interesting data point on someone as snobby as Downey.

Favorite headcanon

The canon is that Downey is a "jumped up" lord. This is stated in the books. I head-canon that he's more jumped up than he wants people to know. I always write his parentage as being very mercantile - his father is in trade. A merchant who still has his hands in the business, rather than letting others run it on his behalf. And his family is rich, absolutely rolling in it, but they're not One Of Us.

So when he goes to the Guild as a student Downey hyper-performs everything (class, masculinity, posturing and compensating all over the place) in order to be accepted by his colleagues there as one of the nobility, or veritable nobility. Doesn't work to the degree he would like it to, of course. But dad's wealth does help to bandage over some things.

This is also why he's fixated on Doing the Done Thing/Social Rules. I don't think Downey has many morals (he has maybe five (5) morals), but he does place great value on being included by those whom he esteems as Cool and will follow behavioural rules to allow him access and acceptability from those people. The Rules are also what ensures him social and political standing and safety, which he values. Also, I think from a young age Downey figured that if he Does the Done Thing he'll be able to crack the code of climbing the social ladder and so he gets weird and pissed off when people don't follow The Done Thing yet are still somehow part of his class world (e.g., Vimes after he marries Sybil).

----

Thank you! :D :D I do love our favourite inhumation man

[darklingichor]

Hogfather, by Terry Pratchett

Tis Hogswatch season on the Disc and those auditors of reality are sticking their collective hoods into the human world again. This time, they hire the assassin's guild to kill The Hogfather, the personification of the holiday spirit. Meanwhile, belief in this spirit seems to be waning in the Disc's children and he cannot be found.

What follows is Death trying to preserve belief in The Hogfather by performing the role himself, The Death of Rats and Quoth the Raven bringing in Susan because her Grandfather seems to have lost his mind, and she delving into the underworld of childhood myths, and Unseen University dealing with odd things popping up due to some excess belief hanging around.

I have heard a lot about this book just by following the discworld tags on tumblr, so what I had expected was a sort of Christmas special, a sort of send up of the "we must save Christmas" thing. I mean, yeah, there is a little of that vibe, but I should have know that it wasn't going to be that simple.

This book is dark, like original Christmas Carol dark, and I love it!

I read that people use to write Sir Terry Pratchett and say they hope that the real Grim Reaper is like the Discworld's Death. This would cause him to stare at a wall for several hours.

And I have to say, I understand both sides of this.

The Disc's Death is committed to being fair. He comes for all, no matter what. His timing might not seem fair, but you will go whether you are a king or a peasant, a tube worm or a God (unless you're Rincewind). And, for the most part, he does his job with something akin to empathy. He speaks to every sentient soul he collects. In his way, he very much cares for them. He acknowledges when a death is cruel or unfortunate, or untimely, even if he can't do anything about it. Then there are the ones he actually steps in and changes, which have their own problems.

Of course people want real Death to be like this, who wouldn't want an entity that sees your life as valuable at the end if it, not because of accomplishment, but just because you lived?

At the same time, I can see why people wishing for a character who, while fascinated by and affectionate towards humanity, doesn't really *get* it and bends the rules with sometimes not great consequences to be in charge of the transport of their soul, and all of that before even considering that sometimes he just kinda stops doing his job...would cause some serious wall staring.

That being said, I think he is one of my favorite characters.

I love Death as The Hogfather, he approaches it with the same mindset as he does The Duty - fair for all. And if a gift or a circumstances goes against something Death can do, he does it anyway because the Hogfather could do it. His commitment to keeping humans human is so cool.

I have to say:

It was so much fun to read him talking to the kids in the department store. I have never read such realistic kid conversations than the ones that have been written between Death and kids, in both Reaper Man and in this one, the wonderful rambling of the kids and the indulgent confusion of the grown up, it was great!

Susan has developed into another one of my favorites.

I'll admit, in Soul Music, I sort.of found Susan to be a little annoying, at least at first, in this one, she has cultivated a normal as a governess. And had grownnout of the teenageery "I will be right, even if I'm wrong" mindset (please understand that the reason this sort of thing sets mybteeth on edge is because I went though this phase as a teen and looknback at it with continual facepalming).

I love how she has adjusted her mindset to all of the mythical and solidly weird things about the world. Almost a flexible theory of logic, that will bend and twist to solve whatever illogical thing she is facing. It's like she says to herself "Just because what is going on is insane, it is no reason to behave irrationally." So, of course when facing down monsters under the bed she has a plan and a fireplace poker. When dealing with gods and assassin's, she finds logic that will work in that situation. It's seems the only thing she can't fully use this on is her Grandfather, which makes their interactions so much fun to read.

I have to say, though, the assassin's Mr. Teatime, the unsettling in-between space where he and his crew operated, and the overall commentary on class structure and the imbalance of wealth - that depends on it staying that way- to actually *keep* the system in balance is why several sections of this book have the feel of the creepiest parts of A Christmas Carol.

Teatime makes me think of the ghost of Christmas future if the future were if everyone disregarded the well being of their fellow man. The auditors and Death's efforts to stop them, along with Albert trying stem Death's generosity reminded me strongly of the part where Scrooge asked Present why the gods want to make things harder on the people that already had it hard and he was told not to attribute things man comes up with to the gods. In this case, it is more, don't attribute what man has come up with to the gods, and don't attribute the manipulations of faceless entities to man.

The gang Teatime lead and the ends they meet in the unchanging realm read almost like a horror movie and they are haunted by fears of their childhoods made Manifest because of what Teatime is trying to do. That last one might be a stretch, but that's what it reminded me of. On the flipside of that, I love that Susan and takes on the task stopping it, because I think that Susan would think that Scrooge was being far too dramatic needing four ghosts to convince him to stop being an jerk when a proper threat would have done the trick.

The best part of this book is just how balanced the satire is with the silliness, when things get heavy there is an interlude in Unseen University dealing with the Varuca Gnome, and helping the God of Hangovers.

I loved this book!

[hearsayhorizons]

The fifth thing Tak did, he wrote a geode, an egg of stone. ... Then Tak looked upon the stone and it was trying to come alive, and Tak smiled, and wrote All things strive. 

And for the service the stone had given, he fashioned it into the first Troll, and delighted in the life that came unbidden.

—The things that Tak wrote, Thud, Terry Pratchett, 

+++ Dear Hogfather, For Hogswatch I Want

OH, NO. YOU CAN'T WRITE LETT... Death paused, and then said, YOU CAN, CAN’T YOU.

+++ Yes. I Am Entitled +++

Death waited until the pen had stopped, and picked up the paper.

BUT YOU ARE A MACHINE. THINGS HAVE NO DESIRES. A DOORKNOB WANTS NOTHING, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A COMPLEX MACHINE.

+++ All Things Strive +++

—Hogfather, GNU Terry Pratchett

The TL;DR is that I had a tough but worthwhile experience as a kid at a bear-themed park and wanted to use this quote along with the constellations for ursa minor and major in some combination for a tattoo, but I wasn’t sure how to do it—runic font for Tak? Something more DOS for Hex? My husband recommended an idea but I am on the fence. I just realized that his idea doesn't solve my font questions, but one issue at a time.

As preteen, I had the opportunity to hike the Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes in Michigan with a cohort of kids my age. The only hiccup is that my slight cerebral palsy means my right foot turns in and I walk on the side of it. I need a solid surface to push off of—ice is only slightly worse than sand (I can roller skate, at least, I could fifteen years ago, but it looks goofy as hell as I’m in a constant shuffle of failing to fall so hard I should be flying instead).

It took a dozen ace bandages and a lot of sweat, but I kept up with everyone else and I still really value the experience.

All things strive has stayed with me for years since I first read Thud. I know I want those words as a tattoo, probably on my calf because everything else fluctuates with the weather. I want the constellations with the words. But what font? What will look nice over time, and fit both myself and the context?

Apparently, my husband has been sitting on “it should be a dung beetle pushing uphill—striving!” but he didn’t want to recommend a... tattpoo. 

But you know what, I don’t mind scarabs. And I could see what he was talking about, so I spent way too long hashing out an approximation

This is a rough draft I hope could be enough for a real artist to work off of: indistinct, placeholder font, the sphere of constellations looks like a dragonball, and I couldn’t get the text to curve despite tutorials! The blue-white is negative space/skin.

I think this could be a largish interesting tattoo. Just the text with stars scattered around it would grab much less attention but be much simpler. I dunno, my husband recommended it, and while he was reluctant because he wasn’t sure how I’d take it, my oversensitivity to being made fun of didn’t alert.

ALL things DO strive!

[sarah-ankh]

I would like to add to the doylist conclusion by referencing both Reaper Man and Hogswatch.

Between Death, Granny Weatherwax, and Sam Vimes, we have 3 of the 4 main protagonists of discworld. And this perspective is the main thing they have in common.

People are ends in themselves, not a means to an end. They have value and deserve care and respect.

Vimes: see all of Feet of Clay as previously mentioned

Granny Weatherwax: "evil begins when you treat people as things", and she has dedicated her life to helping people who need it as best she can.

Death: "what can the harvest hope for, if not for the care of the Reaper Man?" And his righteous indignation in that same book at the attitude of the new death, who comes as an uncaring conquering ruler.

And the monologue from the end of hogswatch "find me one atom of justice" etc. where he reveals that the world would not end if he had failed, but the magic would be stripped from it. "The sun would not have risen, a mere ball of flaming gas would have illuminated the world."

Which ties in with one of the salient points in Small Gods, and again in Witches Abroad and probably elsewhere. Belief is a powerful force. It makes things real, it reshapes the world.

All of this together points to a clear message from Pratchett to th reader across multiple books: what matters is compassion, what matters is that you see your fellow man, care for them, treat them with respect and empathy. Strive to behave with justice, compassion and mercy in your own actions and inso doing make them real, and make the whole world a better place for having them.

potentially controversial opinion incoming

sam vimes’s natural anti-drunkenness (being knurd) is described as seeing the world the way it actually is, without all the comforting illusions people have for themselves. having a witch’s First Sight means that “you can see what really is there.” granny weatherwax says that evil starts with treating people as things, and, often but especially vividly in Feet of Clay, sam demonstrates repeatedly that he will not stand for the golems being treated as less than people, for the poor being treated as disposable by the rich and powerful, for anyone thinking that anyone else doesn’t matter. the hiver gets inside tiffany aching and reveals the Chalk in her soul. the summoning dark gets inside sam vimes and finds a city in there. and sam vimes knows how to be selfish, to claim his city and his people as his, to protect them. witches watch over people who are frequently small-minded and ungrateful and stubborn and they do it anyway because it’s what you do, because it needs to be done; and sam vimes says pretty much the same thing every time he considers the people of ankh-morpork. and you can call him mister vimes, but only if you’ve earned it.

doylist conclusion: terry pratchett knew what his taste in protagonists was

watsonian conclusion: vimes is an urban witch and ankh-morpork is his steading gods damn it

[uwanosorade]

BUT THE HOGFATHER CAN CHANGE THINGS. LITTLE MIRACLES ALL OVER THE PLACE, WITH MANY A MERRY HO, HO, HO. TEACHING PEOPLE THE REAL MEANING OF HOGSWATCH, ALBERT.

“What, you mean that the pigs and cattle have all been slaughtered and with any luck everyone’s got enough food for the winter?”

WELL, WHEN I SAY THE REAL MEANING—

“Some wretched devil’s had his head chopped off in a wood somewhere ’cos he found a bean in his dinner and now the summer’s going to come back?”

NOT EXACTLY THAT, BUT—

“Oh, you mean that they’ve chased down some poor beast and shot arrows up into their apple trees and now the shadows are going to go away?”

THAT IS DEFINITELY A MEANING, BUT I—

“Ah, then you’re talking about the one where they light a bloody big bonfire to give the sun a hint and tell it to stop lurking under the horizon and do a proper day’s work?”

Death paused, while the hogs hurtled over a range of hills. YOU’RE NOT HELPING, ALBERT.

“Well, they’re all the real meanings that I know.”

I THINK YOU COULD WORK WITH ME ON THIS.

“It’s all about the sun, master. White snow and red blood and the sun. Always has been.”

VERY WELL, THEN. THE HOGFATHER CAN TEACH PEOPLE THE UNREAL MEANING OF HOGSWATCH.

Albert spat over the side of the sleigh. “Hah! ‘Wouldn’t It Be Nice If Everyone Was Nice,’ eh?”

THERE ARE WORSE BATTLE CRIES.

--Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

[helshades]

Ok Hel. I've spent the whole of april reading Good Omens because it had been on my to read list thanks to you for such a long time and i Knew i needed to have finished before the series came out (and how glad am i because the series doesn't hold a candle to the original despite being very commandable). Anyways. I am thorougly in love with Terry Pratchett's voice, and i need more, stats. How should i go at it? Where to start?

‘St. Beryl of Krakow was a 5th-century Christian martyr. Forcibly married to the pagan Duke Casimir, Beryl maintained her all-important virginity by ceaselessly talking to him and incessantly chattering on, until he went down with a headache.

Eventually he couldn't stand the eternal wittering any more and had her executed, but she died a virgin, which in Christian eyes was the all-important thing and which secured her a sainthood.

The Chattering Order of St. Beryl are an order of nuns dedicated to emulating her example, and whose members are commanded to chatter, natter, and rabbit on about every last little thing that comes into their heads for every second of every waking hour.

The Sisters are allowed half an hour's respite on Tuesdays, when they may be silent and, if they wish, play table-tennis’

Truth be told, I may be the only person who upon being prompted to give advice on a reading order for the ‘Discworld’ series will inevitably reply: ‘From the beginning, by book one, what a question’. Then again, I am also the sort of person to read Good Omens in two days (it should take me one, but I keep re-reading passages out loud) and the day after I was gifted my first Pratchett novel by my grandmother who thought she was trolling me (the back read: ‘In the realm of Lancre, smaller than a nudist’s outfit...’) I hurried into the big city to purchase the thirteen previous ones, which I read in one go, bar the odd contractual pause for sleep or shower (as other activities didn’t especially require that I stop).

Now, you might actually want to show some more restraint than I usually do in your discovery of such a vast, bountiful new territory, and start strategically, as it were, by a book most likely to help you transition smoothly from Good Omens into... well, Terry Pratchett didn’t write solely about the Discworld, but the Discworld novels certainly are the best point of entry and they are exactly what you are looking for if what you are looking for is a post-Good Omens fix. If such were the case, I would select these precise books amongst my favourite:

Hogfather (20)

Going Postal (33)

Interesting Times (17)

Monstrous Regiment (31)

Lords and Ladies (14) 

Guards! Guards! (8)

The Discworld series comprises 41 books but they can absolutely be read on their own, so that in theory you may start with any of them. Nevertheless, some of the main characters have their own series: they grow up or grow older, start a family, shoulder new responsibilities... Some will deem it more satisfying to see these characters evolve along the years, especially as Pratchett’s own writing style has improved greatly since the (hilarious, but much less profound) initial volumes.

Should I advise only one book to be read after Good Omens, though, I think I would select Hogfather. It is a wonderful entry for many reasons, including the clever twists on real-world myths, the amazing main characters, the fact that it can totally be counted as a Christmas tale, and the seriously amazing main characters—who are (Duchess) Susan Sto Helit, who I guess is the closest thing the Discworld had to a Mary Poppins, and her grandfather, Death (a long story. It is told in Mort.), a 6-foot-tall skeleton normally in a black robe equipped with a scythe, except this time He is wearing a fake beard and several cushions to fake a jolly big belly, because one has to temp as the Hogfather, the latter having disappeared without a trace, meaning the little kiddies of the Disc won’t have their Hogswatch presents this year... ah, and, also, the world might just end because of it.

Everything starts somewhere, although many physicists disagree. But people have always been dimly aware of the problem with the start of things. They wonder aloud how the snowplough driver gets to work, or how the makers of dictionaries look up the spelling of the words. Yet there is the constant desire to find some point in the twisting, knotting, ravelling nets of space-time on which a metaphorical finger can be put to indicate that here, here, is the point where it all began...

Something began when the Guild of Assassins enrolled Mister Teatime, who saw things differently from other people, and one of the ways that he saw things differently from other people was in seeing other people as things (later, Lord Downey of the Guild said, ‘We took pity on him because he'd lost both parents at an early age. I think that, on reflection, we should have wondered a bit more about that.’) But it was much earlier even than that when most people forgot that the very oldest stories are, sooner or later, about blood. Later on they took the blood out to make the stories more acceptable to children, or at least to the people who had to read them to children rather than the children themselves (who, on the whole, are quite keen on blood provided it's being shed by the deserving), and then wondered where the stories went.

And earlier still when something in the darkness of the deepest caves and gloomiest forests thought: what are they, these creatures? I will observe them. And much, much earlier than that, when the Discworld was formed, drifting onwards through space atop four elephants on the shell of the giant turtle, Great A'Tuin. Possibly, as it moves, it gets tangled like a blind man in a cobwebbed house in those highly specialized little spacetime strands that try to breed in every history they encounter, stretching them and breaking them and tugging them into new shapes. Or possibly not, of course. The philosopher Didactylos has summed up an alternative hypothesis as ‘Things just happen. What the hell.’

This conversation is far from over, but for now I really must go—I am feeling a mighty urge to reread a couple dozen things right now.

[aeshnacyanea2000]

TEACHING PEOPLE THE REAL MEANING OF HOGSWATCH, ALBERT. ‘What, you mean that the pigs and cattle have all been slaughtered and with any luck everyone’s got enough food for the winter?’ WELL, WHEN I SAY THE REAL MEANING— ‘Some wretched devil’s had his head chopped off in a wood somewhere ’cos he found a bean in his dinner and now the summer’s going to come back?’ NOT EXACTLY THAT, BUT— ‘Oh, you mean that they’ve chased down some poor beast and shot arrows up into their apple trees and now the shadows are going to go away?’ THAT IS DEFINITELY A MEANING, BUT I— ‘Ah, then you’re talking about the one where they light a bloody big bonfire to give the sun a hint and tell it to stop lurking under the horizon and do a proper day’s work?’

Terry Pratchett - Hogfather

[squadron-of-damned]

Lord Downey infopost

Okay, so I have lately quite often encounetred the problem that not much is actually said about Downey in the books. And while L-space Wiki and Discworld Wiki are great things, they, like all Wikis, tend to leave out information (for the sake of spoilers or just because people aren’t always entirely dedicated). So here goes:

Men at Arms

His first appearance in books.

He hadn't scored full marks in his post-graduate course.

He is second-in-charge, also deputy of the Guild (so in case Cruses is missing, he is in command).

Cruces office is different than Downey's office described in the Hogfather.

He is a member of the Guild Council.

He is referred to as Mr. Downey.

In the only interaction he has with Dr. Cruces, Dr. Cruces scolds and belittles him as much as possible.

He is white haired.

According to Gaspode, he would done Dr. Cruces in for a handful of beechnuts.

Gaspode also claims he is almost as good as Dr. Cruces when it comes to poisons.

You can usually get a mint bonbon from him if he is in the right mood.

He's poisoned 15 already this year

He knows Gaspode.

His first reaction to seeing Angua in wolf form is saying hi and pet her head.

So he either can't tell a wolf from a Ramtop wolfhound, or he has the "canine = friend" instinct. Possibly both.

When he goes to check on really angry Vimes and Carrot who have just killed Cruces,the first thing he does is that he shows he is unarmed with his hands raised.

every time he knocks on the door, he does so very carefully.

He doesn't want people to see dead Cruces and wants to keep the whole thing low.

Feet of Clay

He is head of the guild, and referred to as a Doctor.

It is implied that young Assassins are sent after Vimes and Vetinari as form of punishment.

He is sarcastic without making faces.

He is wanted to be the first to speak on the city council meeting, and address the elephant in the room.

He wants to have power and keep it.

He thinks kings are not a much of a good idea.

But not so bad idea if he was the one (or at least one of the people) to tell the king what to do. That is, kindly advise ans subtly suggest, of course.

He is suspicious of other people.

He doesn't want Vetinari dead.

Maybe retired, yes. Not dead.

He knows Nobby Noobs.

He isn't exactly fond of Vimes.

He is the one to come up with the ideas on how to execute a plan.

When he gets an echo that Vimes has a packet of arsene in his office, he jumps after the oportunisty to... Do... stuff? And he doesn't even question it. Not much at least.

He doesn't expect to be hit by a drunk man.

But he doesn't whine about a nosebleed.

He doesn't acknowledge that sugar is potentially dangerous.

He can admit when he is wrong.

Hogfather:

He is referred to as a Lord Downey.

He is doing paperwork late into night.

He needs to catch up with the paperwork.

He believes in money.

And also in the Rules.

He has good well worn furniture in his office. And a carpet.

He has at least two big fluffy dogs.

He is analytical of the sutiation he happens to be in.

Seeing Death wouldn't surprise him.

His teeth are in an excellent condition.

He has musical hearing and can hold a tune.

He doesn't deny the existence of various supernatural beings.

He is not scared easily.

He likes answers.

But he believes more in three millions than he believes in answers.

He offers his clients a drink.

Awkward jokes to lighten up the mood.

He knows pure gold when he sees it.

And magic metal when he sees it.

He knows who is good for what kind of... commision.

He hasn't got any real morals, only norms.

He detests Teatime.

He likes to arrange win-win situations for himself.

He likes to impress people.

He forgets about the chimney system.

He's never thought about killing Death, nor how to do it.

He used to collect butterflies.

On Hogswatch Eve he waits to hear the sleigh-bells.

Nobody got anywhere by obeying the rules and getting caught at it.

Jingo

He says a lot of things by not talking about them at all.

He is aware of the potential danger coming from Klatchian Assassins, but he doesn't say it outright.

Fuck subtlety. But not as hard as Vimes fucks it.

He goes for the "Don't we pay our taxes?" despite he knows the Guild doesn't pay taxes.

But he has it legally covered, though.

He is very well aware, however, they should be paid. He isn't keen on that idea.

The whole time, he addresses Vetinari by neither name, nor title. Even when he talks directly to him.

Given the Lordship status not so long ago.

Vimes calls him a friend of Rust.

He got his Lordship title from the Patrician.

He signed the arrest Warrant on Vetinari along with the most of the Guild Heads.

The whole time he lowkey gives the wibe of a man who is 20 mugs of coffee behind his schedule.

Assassins’ Yearbook (though, I have seen only snippets)

He teaches advanced poisoning for sixth-formers.

His wife holds afternoon teas on Thursday for the sixth-formers, which are very educational.

That means he is married.

He can get lost when writing an official text (which is supposed to be revised before printing).

In the same official texts, he makes jokes and points them out.

The Rules are Very Important.

He opened the Assassins' Academy for girls and trolls (and possibly other sentient races), despite the number of concerns on this matter. Progress is Very Important

He knows there were undercover girls.

His door/window is always opened to the pupils.

Surprisingly clear and clean signature:

Bonus:

In Czech his name is Odkraglli, which would sound more like Killerelli turned back to English.

More to come tomorrow, because I am dead tired.

[heartofaquamarine]

DISCWORLD’S DEATH AND YOKOHAMA KAIDASHI KIKO: A FRIENDLY END.

I am terrified of death. That’s not really hyperbole; I have an anxiety disorder that mainly manifests itself in the form of irrational fears of immediate mortality. When I was younger, I would see smoke in the patterns on the ceiling above my bed at night, fearing that the house was in the process of being consumed in flame. Later on, I developed health anxiety to the point that the hospital sent me a letter telling me to stop going there when I was actually fine physically, if not mentally. Even my current academic path has been directed by this somewhat; one of the reasons I went into climate science was because of my fears of global climate change. My default response to this panic is to seek either reassurance or understanding; going to the doctor’s, checking the house for fire, and learning about the physics of the climate. It is the uncertainty, the lack of knowledge that causes me the problem.

This anxiety has been with me long enough that, while it is still there, I can mainly handle it. I sometimes have panic attacks, but normally I can talk myself out of the spiral before I get there. That being said, it is still lurking at the back of my mind, like ivy in a garden. I can pull it up, I can try and rip out the roots, but as anyone who has tried to rid their garden of ivy knows, it will grow again.

One of the powers I think media has, that I think stories have, is that they provide an external framework for us to interact with, much in the way that the real world does. I don’t think it is a particularly novel thing to say that many of these stories focus on death, either the acceptance of it or warping it, overcoming up. Death is just such a universal constant. The very first full book I ever read, Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone, has the need to accept death as a major theme of the book; “Death, to a well prepared mind, is nothing more than the next great adventure”.

Given what I have said above, you might think my preferred framework for handling death is a world where death is meaningless, where it loses its power. The immortality of Baccano!, the constant respawning of video games where if you die, you just have to try again (and some, like Undertale, make this a core part of their narrative), or just the idea of an eternal afterlife, and while I do enjoy a lot of these, I don’t actually find these to be the most comforting portrayal of death.

HELLO.

There is only one consistently appearing character in GNU Terry Pratchett’s Discworld, and that is Death himself; the anthropogenic personification, the Grim Reaper. Sometimes he is the main character, often he is merely a one scene wonder, but he appears in every single book in the series. We get to see into his mind. It is alien, but understandable both because of the fact that he represents a fundamental shadow in our lives, and because Death himself wishes to understand us. He has a cottage, a garden where he tries to grow plants that cannot truly exist. In Discworld, we are not left with the mystery of death, the question about what lies beyond the grave, but instead Death is also forced to confront the mystery of us. His attempts are well meaning, but clumsy. He attempts to make his adopted grand daughter a Hogswatch card (the Discworld’s version of Christmas), apologising for how damp it is; he knew he was supposed to put snow on it, but it melted, and the robin refused to stay on. Heck, even in that little sentence I dropped the idea that the Death has an adopted grand-daughter. Death and Life are, in Discworld, constantly reaching out to one another, and Death has a deep soft spot for us; he rides out with the other Horsemen of the Apocolypse (War, Famine and Pestilence, as well as the Fifth member who left before they became famous) in defence of life, and steps in to fill the role of the Hogfather when he disappears. We do actually get to see the afterlife of Discworld, or at least the start of it. Death escorts you into a desert. Once you get there, your fate varies, but we get to see very few of the actual outcomes. A golem, having spent millennia working, finally sits down. The abusive leader of a religion discovers that the ghosts of his victims still very much believe in him. But for the most part we don’t see what happens. It is not a reveal of what happens to you after your life, but just a very short glimpse at what lies beyond. The comfort comes not from the idea that I know what lies beyond, but just that there is something, and there will be a friendly, if alien, hand. THE AGE OF THE CALM EVENING

If Discworld presents a comforting vision of a personal death, then Yokohama Kaidashi Kiko by Hitoshi Ashinano (henceforth referred to as YKK) presents a comforting vision of a future without humanity. It is set in a post-apocolyptic world, where the climate has fundamentally changed. The seasons have merged; winters are now milder, while summers are cooler. The sea level has risen to the point that most of the city of Yokohama is now underwater; a recurring, haunting image in the manga is that of the street lights of Yokohama still lighting up underneath the waves, creating an artificial, glowing sea.

And in this world, we follow the everyday life of an android called Alpha, as she runs a café on the edge of a cliff.

There’s no great revelations about the nature of the catastrophe, or even much discussion of it. We just see the everyday life of Alpha as the world changes around her. At first, the world is still very much dominated by human presences. Roads and buildings remain mostly intact, and the characters Alpha interacts with are almost all human. Even the café itself is a remnant of humanity; Alpha has an owner, who asks her to look after the café, but we never actually meet him. He sends her a camera early on, but this is basically the only interaction we see them directly have. The human presence instead comes from a family that lives nearby, and runs a small petrol station, a little distance from the café. Over the course of the story, despite Alpha remaining unchanging, we see these characters move on. The children grow up, and the grandfather dies. The road to Yokohama along the coast becomes sand, and nature reclaims the terraces and plateaus.

Nature is perhaps embodied in story by the character of Misago, an ageless wild woman who lives in the bays and waterways below the café’s cliff. What she is is never explained; it is possibly implied she is the first robot, but I have always read her as a spirit of nature, something that was here before humanity, and is here after we disappear.

Likewise, we also see new things appearing, evolving in forms similar to what humans have created, but at the same time alien. Blue glowing trees like street lamps (a running motif in the manga), strange structures that ape the appearance of buildings but that appear to be some kind of fungus, and plants which grow statues that look like people. Crucially, none of these are actually explained; they are left a mystery, but a comforting one. The end of the world was not the end of the world. Life goes on, even if is not in forms recognisable to us, and the effect we had on the world still lasts, just perhaps not how we expect.

Misago and nature; the world that was here before us, and that will be here after us.

Alpha and the other robots: the children of humanity that inherit the evening age from us.

The flower statues and street light trees: what comes after us.

We see this in reality at Chernobyl. Plants and animals still live in the area around the plant, even when the human population has left. We even see new types of life emerging; bacteria that grow on the interior of the reactor walls, feeding on the radiation. It is not as complete as YKK. Human life is returning to the area, but it shows how the world might behave without us.

The story, without saying so explicitly, creates a structure where my anxieties about climate change can be peacefully projected. Not that it won’t happen, but simply that it will be a lot more peaceful than I have allowed myself to imagine.

A SMALL ENDING

My default method of tackling my anxiety is to search out more information; to search for the fire, to seek out a diagnosis, or to be more precise, to seek out reassurance that it does not exist. Both Discworld and YKK take some fundamental fears of mine and, rather than telling me they will not happen, tell me that it will not be as bad as I think it is. Reading both Discworld and YKK is a strangely calming experience; allowing me to project myself into a world where a friendly hand, an alien smile, on the deck of a café looking over the evening sea, illuminated by lights, with shapes moving in the clouds and water that I do not understand.

And I do not need to understand.

It is peaceful.

[pinerwo]

Scavengers animal

SCAVENGERS ANIMAL FREE

In The Island of Doctor Moreau, the nastiest of the Beast Folk was created from a hyena and a pig, both animals that will scavenge.However, when a human that they abduct for information castigates them and compares them to carrion-eaters, they become horrified at the idea of what they're about to do and leave Earth to its own devices. Then they'll come to "rescue" the survivors. Isaac Asimov's " The Gentle Vultures": The aliens consider unbalancing the Cold War so that one side is ready to devastate the world through nuclear weapons.Subverted by Loiosh, an actual jhereg who can be quite courageous when acting on behalf of Vlad, who raised Loiosh as his companion and familiar. In Steven Brust's Dragaera, House Jhereg is named for a species of scavenging venomous reptile, and is the House associated with criminals.At the end of Hogfather, the Death of Rats locates a dead sheep for Quoth to scavenge, and it's portrayed as a touching Hogswatch gesture on the Grim Squeaker's part. Although completely open and unashamed about his love of scavenging (eyeballs especially), he's quite helpful and sympathetic, at least when he's not being a Deadpan Snarker. Subverted in Discworld with Quoth, the Death of Rats's raven associate.This doesn't mean all scavengers are noble, however. Scavengers, vultures in particular, are considered borderline sacred. Unlike in previous Erin Hunter books, scavenging is noted to be a natural and even vital part of life for animals. The cats refuse to scavenge no matter how hungry they are. "Crowfood" is the term that characters in Warrior Cats use to refer to rotting food.Lusa is seen as less of a bear for trying to eat flatface food (garbage) in Seeker Bears.Alpha, a wolf-dog raised amongst wolves, outright refuses to.

SCAVENGERS ANIMAL FREE

In Survivor Dogs, very few of the dogs are okay with scavenging off of longpaw trash or eating dog food after becoming Free Dogs.Erin Hunter works usually present scavenging as demeaning, especially if the animals scavenge from humans (though many of the animals are actually scavengers in real life):.No relation to Disaster Scavengers, which are the (mostly human) scavengers in the post-apocalyptic worlds. Compare Predation Is Natural, which often goes hand-in-hand with this trope: hunting is part of nature, but scavenging is less so. Related to You Dirty Rat!, Creepy Cockroach, Messy Maggots, and (if humanoid carrion-eaters are included) Our Ghouls Are Creepier. Often related to Super-Persistent Predator and What Measure Is a Non-Cute?. Sister trope to Predators Are Mean, which one would think would result in scavengers being depicted as nicer, since they at least don't need to kill for food. This has a level of Truth in Television to it, as scavengers in real-life generally stay out of conflicts between larger, stronger meat-eaters (but are not Mooks in real-life, obviously). Oddly enough, they won't always be depicted as actually scavenging, instead conspiring to eat the still-living protagonists, which kind of defeats the purpose of them being called scavengers to begin with.Ī Post-Apocalyptic Dog may also end up as this.Ĭuriously, scavengers are rarely depicted as the Big Bad of a story more commonly, they're depicted as Mooks or secondary antagonists-you're more likely to see them as Big Bads if no other carnivores are filling the role. They will often be depicted as Villainous Gluttons and Dirty Cowards, due to their preference for easy meals that are either lying dead on the ground or too weak to fight back, as well as their habit of mooching off of the hard-working predators who, in our eyes, truly "earn" their own sustenance. Usually applied to creatures like hyenas, corvids, jackals, and vultures, probably due to Small Taxonomy Pools. Or, in other words, a scavenger.Ī very specific form of Carnivore Confusion, this trope presents scavengers as ugly, dirty, greedy, and all around unpleasant creatures who would gleefuly feast on equally rotten meals that nobody in their right mind would touch. Simple: make the villain a "lesser" carnivore. But what happens when a carnivore is a hero? In fiction (especially xenofiction), a carnivorous animal is very commonly the villain facing off against a bunch of heroic herbivores.

[pratchettquotes]

YOU'RE NOT HELPING, ALBERT.

"Well, they're all the real meanings I know."

I THINK YOU COULD WORK WITH ME ON THIS.

"It's all about the sun, master. White snow and red blood and the sun. Always has been."

VERY WELL, THEN. THE HOGFATHER CAN TEACH PEOPLE THE UNREAL MEANING OF HOGSWATCH.

Albert spat over the edge of the sleigh. "Hah! 'Wouldn't It Be Nice If Everyone Was Nice,' eh?"

THERE ARE WORSE BATTLE CRIES.

Terry Pratchett, Hogfather *

*special request from @mimble-sparklepudding !

[thiswaycomessomethingwicked]

Hello! I adore your Vetinari&Downey series, and you've mentioned that it's fine to request drabbles. So, maybe, if you like the idea, you can write smth about the first time young Downey felt some distinct longing towards Vetinari? Maybe with some butthurt and jealosy on Will's part involved.:-)

Thank you so much for the prompt! I have no idea if this is what you were hoping for but it’s what you got. Boys being dumb. 

[The AO3 Link] 

It’s always the throwing of things. Perhaps not every day but since his arrival at the guild Vetinari has been pelted with various and sundry objects whenever Downey felt the need to express his presence. This was usually followed by an “eyyup Dog-Botherer.” Or some equivalent. The intellectual level of the interaction depended upon age in the beginning, twelve year olds not being notoriously bright as Downey was two years Vetinari’s senior, then later, it would depend upon his energy level, how committed he was to being a nuisance or how intense the hangover.

But this has temporarily ceased. Vetinari is cautiously relieved for it means that he can get through a month without having to deal with Downey’s obnoxious presence. What has replaced it though? Staring.

Perhaps it’s because it’s Hogswatch break, Vetinari reasons. There’s only a handful of students at the guild over these two weeks and therefore Downey has less of an audience to perform in front of. Or, perhaps it’s because he’s finally growing up. Being one and twenty must mean something surely. Vetinari considers himself immensely more mature than Downey, and always has been. Even though he’s a mere nineteen and only having taken the black the year previous he believes himself to be miles ahead of the other boy.

Young man, now, he supposes. They’re both young men. Young gentlemen, as teachers usually say in a disparaging tone.

The Guild library is laid out with a main body of the library, the nave if you will, is lined on either side with shelves then in the centre are large tables for students to occupy. The first floor is split so you are either on the east or west side with both affording a view of each other and the ground floor tables. Vaulted ceilings and large windows make for an airy and peaceful environment. It is, perhaps too predictably, Vetinari’s favourite place in the Guild. He sits currently on the west side, first floor, working through notes on how best to approach the methodology for next term’s research project when he becomes aware that some else is nearby.

He looks up then around and sat across from him, on the east side, is Downey. Sitting is perhaps too strong a word, lounging with books would be more accurate. When their eyes meet Downey’s face contorts into something Vetinari has never seen before and he twists in his chair and pulls up a book.

Vetinari thinks that for someone eternally dull-witted Downey has his mysterious moments. Vetinari watches as Downey reads with great diligence, not looking up again until Vetinari bows his head over his notes. With head still bowed Vetinari glances over and finds Downey pulling a similar move. They both look back to their work.

With great concentration Vetinari manages to finish his outline and a few thoughts on where best to begin. Having gone past three he decides to see if any of the kitchen staff will take pity on him and give him a late lunch or an early tea, whichever is easiest.

Getting up he finally allows himself to look over again to Downey and finds him still reading, though a stack of papers have appeared so apparently real work is happening. Packed up and walking down to the ground floor Vetinari glances back one last time and finds Downey watching him. When they meet each other’s eyes this time there’s no awkward scurrying back to work.

‘What do you want?’ Vetinari asks. They’re alone, therefore no need to keep one’s voice to a whisper.

‘What are you on about?’ Downey replies.

‘Just tell me what you want.’

‘Why do you think I want something, Dog-Botherer? Why do you think I’d want anything from you?’

If Vetinari isn’t mistaken, Downey is blushing. Strange, strange lad.

Vetinari shrugs then decants from the library.

The next iteration of this strange and unaccountable change in Downey comes the day after Hogswatch when Downey appears to have a strange sort of silent argument with himself in the common room then approaches Vetinari very slowly and says, ‘um.’

‘What, Downey?’ Vetinari asks from over his book.

Once again, the universe has conspired for them to be alone. Downey appears to take some heart in that.

‘I’ve um got this,’ he holds out a bag of chocolate coins. ‘Um, you want to gamble for them?’

Vetinari stares at the bag. A few informational notes about Downey’s heritage ticks through his head.

‘With you?’ Vetinari asks.

‘No, with the King of Lancre.’

‘I’d rather not.’

Downey scowls, ‘Right, fine.’ He stalks off.

Vetinari tries to return to his book but finds that it isn’t as entertaining as it had been when he began. He wants to reinvest in the main character who is currently attempting to convince her sister to do away with her philandering husband but cannot. He turns around the recent developments in Downey’s behaviour which dated back perhaps a month or so. It hasn’t been long.

He wishes Madam were in Ankh-Morpork for she could then inform him what all of Downey’s shifts in behaviour mean. Learning how people tick and how to leverage that to his advantage is a skill he is still developing. Though Downey has, until recently, been the most simple to manipulate as he was never a deep or complicated river to navigate.

Rivers do change course. Vetinari gets up and goes up to the dorms and knocks on Downey’s door.

Downey opens it, ‘what? Oh.’ Perhaps his expression uncertain? Vetinari believes there is something of a conflict written across it but he isn’t sure what that means.

‘I changed my mind.’

Downey sucks on his bottom lip. It’s not an attractive look. ‘I already have people playing.’

‘Oh.’

‘Who is it?’ A voice from inside asks. Vetinari recognizes it as Jacob de l’Enfer. Another voice, that of Willis, asks a similar question.

Downey, over his shoulder, ‘Dog-Botherer.’

Vetinari’s desire to continue the impromptu socializing vanishes. Downey, when speaking to Jacob, becomes another person. It is a transformation to watch.

Jacob is saying, ‘let him join us. You haven’t explained the rules yet.’

‘Oh DB would know them,’ Downey says.

‘Would he?’ Jacob appears behind Downey with curiosity. Vetinari smiles, a brittle thing. ‘I didn’t know that.’

Downey is pure charm in his reply. It is a performance and Vetinari feels like he’s watching something he shouldn’t be seeing. Then Downey’s attention is back on him and Jacob has retreated and it’s back to the two of them. The way it’s been since they were ten and twelve.

‘I guess you can join,’ Downey says whose eyes are like black forests and his hair a rusty brown. There is light behind him so his face his shadowed.

Vetinari shakes his head. He bows out. He doesn’t want whatever strange, unaccountable olive branch it is that Downey is offering. Or trying to offer. Mostly, he isn’t sure he wants to see him talking to Jacob. He slinks back to the common room, pours himself a whiskey, and does his best to ignore whatever it is that just happened.

Really, things are a tragedy. Downey has decided this as he prowls around the mostly-empty guild. Life is trouble. That is going to go on the plaque his ashes will be hid behind after he dies.

Here lies William (maybe spelled Guillaume or Gulielmus or Willym he hasn’t decided which one has the best colour yet) Downey, Assassin. Let it be known to all that Life is Trouble.

He feels such guilt and such shame. These are not emotions he is overly familiar with so doesn’t know what to do with them. As this is the issue he puts them in a box and spends much of the first week of break drinking with Willis.

What is the trouble that he laments over? It occurred to him, one fowl early Ember day, that Dog-Botherer has a nice profile. That was the unfortunate slope that he has since found himself sliding down. It’s only nice, he informs himself, because Dog-Botherer has finally managed to grow into his nose which was always unfortunately large.

No longer gangly with too many limbs it seems that Dog-Botherer has gained in height and has filled out. All while Downey wasn’t paying attention and really, who is the scag to do something like that to him?

He laments about this to Willis. ‘Willis.’

‘What?’

‘Why must I go and find someone attractive whom I shouldn’t?’

They’re in Willis’ room with a bottle of wine and chocolate bark. Downey’s family is not of the faith to celebrate Hogswatch and so he never bothers to go home during the holidays. Willis’ reason for staying changes every year but Downey has distilled it down to: I live with my angry grandfather and do not wish to return unto him unless I must.

Willis nods sagely. ‘I’ve had that happen. I was seeing Clarissa then went and fancied her cousin. It was a mistake.’

‘Yes,’ Downey points with his wine glass. ‘That’s exactly it. There’s this, uh, lass who I might be going with. The path we’re on is going swimmingly enough and I’m pretty sure she’s keen but there’s this other person who I’ve never noticed before but now all I do is stare whenever they’re around.’

‘Right,’ Willis pours them both more wine in a manner that says he is about to get down to business. ‘So what you need to do is figure out which one you prefer.’

‘Um, the one that it could kick off with in the near future. I think the other one is mostly obnoxious.’

‘All right, so you just need to remember that she’s annoying. I had to do that with Clarissa’s cousin. I had to remind myself that we never have anything to talk about and really, she’s very dull. She’s just got pretty hair and a cute face.’

‘That’s the problem,’ Downey agrees. ‘Faces. Or profiles in this case.’

Willis laughs, ‘you like the weirdest things, Will.’

‘This, uh, lass with the profile is deeply annoying though.’

‘Uh huh.’

‘She thinks she’s so smart, better than the rest of us, somehow superior. Condescending. Rude.’

‘Is she smart?’

‘Oh,’ Downey nods with disinterest. ‘Terribly. Probably the smartest person I know other than Ludo. I don’t really care about that. It’s the blase attitude. She doesn’t pay any attention to me.’

Willis begins peering at Downey then says, very slowly, ‘I think you like this girl a good deal.’

‘Absolutely not.’

‘What’s her name?’

Downey becomes prim. He says he doesn’t kiss and tell. Or, in this case, find-a-profile-nice-to-look-at and tell. He adds, ‘anyway, she doesn’t pay any attention to anyone–’

‘So no competition!’ Willis crows.

‘That’s not the issue here, Willis. The issue is that I do not wish to be interested in her at all because it makes me feel guilty because I’m already half down the garden path with this other person who is fabulous in all ways. An absolute brick. Why they’re interested in me is a mystery.’

Willis’ wisdom most often comes out in wine soaked moments. They’re opening a second bottle and Downey is suggesting that maybe they eat something other than chocolate with cranberries stuck in it.

‘I think you should maybe try and get to know the other girl. The smart one. Then see which route you’d like to go. At the moment you’re working with only half the information,’ Willis says. ‘I can’t really be of any more use since you’re so tightfisted with names.’

Downey waves him off. This isn’t the time for that. This is the time to lament how the universe is cruel and has decided to target him unfairly. He was going along very nicely, thank you, everything was in its proper place until now.

‘I had everything ordered,’ Downey complains. ‘Now it’s not. Well,’ complaint becomes frustrated resignation. ‘Whatever. It’ll pass. I’m sure nothing’ll come of it.’

Willis agrees in his way which is to say he is suspicious and unconvinced but happy to let it drop. They finish the second bottle then go in search of food.

Dog-Botherer is across from him in the common room. Downey hates that Dog-Botherer is across from him. Yet he wishes DB would pay him even the slightest bit of attention. Why is DB nice to creeps like Creevey? And that other strange fellow Flanagan. It makes little sense, they have nothing to offer and aren’t at all remotely interesting people. Downey had been lab partners for a year with Flanagan. It had been a decidedly painful experience.

DB at least is interesting. At least judging by the reading materials he carries around. But DB doesn’t notice him unless he’s chucking something at the lad or insulting him and this eats him up. Indeed, DB once went so far as to say that Downey is not a nice person. Downey disagrees - he’s the nicest person he knows! Other than Ludo. And Jacob.

There’s the rub though. Jacob is a very real possibility. A very real and very soon possibility. And a very real and very soon possibility that he desperately wants. Everything is so much brighter when Jacob is around. He feels less reckless and prone to poor life decisions. Jacob steadies.

Dog-Botherer on the other hand has a habit of provoking the worst in Downey. But that’s only because he refuses to notice Downey in any real capacity instead spending time with creepy Creevy. Also that rich Ramkin girl. Downey dislikes that. His family might not be as rich as her family, nor as aristocratic, but he still should merit some of DB’s time.

Yet. Yet. The rub is reality and reality is that DB will most likely forever remain in the realms of Never Happening Not Even In Your Dreams. DB is also in the realms of Do You Even Want It To Happen? Is That Something You Actually Want To Deal With? The Lad’s As Emotional As A Dead Fish.

Ugh, he thinks as he flounces back into the couch. Dog-Botherer glances over at the sharp exhalation Downey gave upon hitting the cushion.

This is going to turn into another round of awkward staring like they did in the library the other day. Maybe he should start going home during the breaks. He plays this scenario through then decides against it. Whatever messiness happens at the Guild during break is eons better than going home to family and being dragged off to temple for hours then having big dinners with various and sundry. Unimportant people.

Willis’ suggestion lingers like a bad smell. Try and get to know Dog-Botherer? How does one get to know someone so removed and impersonal? Who has such little warmth? His longing has deep conflict within it - how could someone like him want someone like Dog-Botherer? Yet he does. He also wants Jacob. He wants wanting. He wantonly wants.

Determination takes over. He shall not be daunted by this. Rising from the couch he casually strolls over to the object of his confusion and says, ‘I’ve got some chocolate coins. Want to gamble for them?’

Dog-Botherer looks up from his book. The cover is florid - two women wearing an unseemly amount of red. Dog-Botherer seems confused by this so Downey shows him the bag of gelt that was conveniently on his person.

‘With you?’ DB asks.

‘No, with the King of Lancre.’ Downey internally winces. This isn’t the way to go about things but he is watching himself from outside of his body.

‘I’d rather not.’

And he is very much in the moment now. He nods and says, ‘All right then’ and having nothing further to say wanders from the common room.

Once the idea of the game is formed Downey finds himself corralling Willis into playing with him and, to his great joy, Jacob.

Jacob arrives before Willis and Downey immediately regrets his clothing choice because Jacob is casual yet elegant. How can one man manage it so effortlessly? Downey himself wears an itchy jumper his grandma knitted for him several sizes too large at the time so he could grow into it.

Jacob has red hair and freckles and is everything divine. Downey feels so common next to him. Yet when Jacob smiles Downey cannot feel common because nothing is common when Jacob is beside it.

‘Wine?’ He asks as Jacob piles a few pillows on the floor in a circle for the game. ‘I also pilfered Dr. Follett’s brandy if you’re in the mood for that.’

‘A brandy would be nice.’ Jacob settles in on the floor with back leaning into wall. ‘Dr. Follett is going to be after you as soon as he knows you took it.’

‘No fear, I framed Creepy Creevy.’

Jacob rolls his eyes but accepts the brandy without complaint. Downey pours himself one as well and settles down opposite Jacob. The sun is setting so there’s a warm glow on the young man’s face and Downey thinks if he could have a portrait painted it’d be this moment right here.

‘Your holidays treating you well?’ Downey asks. He stretches his feet out. He dares not touch Jacob and Jacob dares not touch him.

‘Oh yes. I came back early as mother was having another one of her spells and I couldn’t be in the house for it. But prior to that I was having a good time. I got you a present.’

‘Oh,’ a blush creeps up Downey’s neck. ‘I didn’t get you anything -’

‘It’s all right, I know Hogswatch isn’t your thing.’

‘I listen for the bells sometimes,’ Downey says. ‘I think they’re nice.’

‘The bells?’

‘The Hogfather’s bells. I’m usually mostly alone at the Guild save for Willis so it’s something to do. We order in Agatean and he cries about his family after we get into the whiskey.’

Jacob is wry, ‘that a yearly tradition?’

‘Yes, bless him.’

Jacob licks his lips and pulls out a small package and hands it over. He is suddenly not looking at Downey but the plants by the window, the book and mug littered desk, the floor. As Downey begins to unwrap it Willis barges in singing a dirty ditty about a sailor.

The present is tucked under the bed. He looks at Jacob who smiles faintly.

‘You could’ve knocked, Willis,’ Downey chides as his friend quickly makes himself at home by stealing Downey’s throw blanket and nesting on the floor with it. ‘Wine or Dr. Follett’s brandy?’

‘Wine.’

Downey pours him a glass and passes it over.

Right as he begins to seat himself there’s a knock on the door. Downey points to it, ‘see Willis, that’s what you could do.’

‘I could,’ Willis agrees happily. To Jacob he says, ‘Will keeps trying to imprint manners on me which I think is a laugh coming from him.’

Jacob to Willis, ‘you have to catch him in the right mood then he’s a perfect gentleman.’

Downey ignores them and opens the door. In the dim of the cool hallway is Dog-Botherer. He’s holding his florid book to his chest and looking confused.

‘What?’ Downey asks.

Dog-Botherer says, ‘I changed my mind.’

Downey breaths in and does not let it out. He races through several alternate scenarios of letting Dog-Botherer join them. The invitation, when he made it, had initially been just for them as per Willis’ direction. But now that Jacob is here he frets. This is the last time he is ever listening to Willis’ advice.

‘I already have people playing,’ he replies lamely.

‘Oh.’

Jacob asks who is at the door. Downey wishes Dog-Botherer didn’t have such a stupid face. If he didn’t have a stupid face Downey wouldn’t be in this position. Willis asks follow up, ‘let them in or out Will but first who is it?’

Downey answers, ‘Dog-botherer.’

Dog-Botherer glares at the name. Rooted to the spot Downey can’t move. Until Jacob says, ‘Let him join us. You haven’t explained the rules yet.’

Downey replies, he isn’t sure what he says. When he looks at Jacob the man is encouraging. Downey knows Jacob thinks he needs to polishing. Jacob had said, ‘I think there’s a good man beneath all of that anger’ and Downey had replied, ‘Aren’t there books on how you’re not supposed to try and change people’ and Jacob, the delight he is, had said, ‘I’m not. I wouldn’t want to. I’m just saying that you’re a bit of an arse but you’re also a good person. You can be both.’

In the present Jacob appears behind Downey and says something which clearly annoys Dog-Botherer who gives a cold non-smile. Downey says something to Jacob. He wants to close the door and return to how things were before this unnecessary complication. Clearly he’s doing fine as Jacob laughs at whatever it is he said and returned to the circle.

Downey mutters, ‘I guess you can join.’

But whatever small desire Dog-Botherer had to join is gone. DB’s face is caught in the light coming from setting sun and lanterns and he, too, looks like a portrait. But a quiet, dark one.

DB says, ‘You clearly have enough players. I won’t get in your way.’

Downey watches him walk back to the common room. It’s an awkward walk as if DB, too, wishes to disappear temporarily into the marble of the Guild. Pushing whatever mad jealousy that rears its head as DB’s back disappears around the corner he spins on his heels with a cheerful smile.

‘All right,’ he grins. ‘Get ready to lose all your chocolate to me.’

They do. Downey preens and spends the rest of the evening eating chocolate in bed and once again pondering that great philosophical question of: Why is life such trouble?

[arbitrarygreay]

Basically, this is still taking the one scene out of context. This scene, and the quote do not exist in a vacuum! It's in conversation with the rest of the text! (Corollary, none of the characters are perfect, so all of their dialogue isn't meant to be 100% didactic, but in context of how their character and relationships with others have been portrayed.) Pratchett makes a lot of critiques about the modern Santa mythos as an exploitation of children, from the cooption by toy companies, to the ways parents impress gender ideology upon their kids, or smother them in the name of safety. When Death goes about carrying out their own concept of what the Hogfather should do, it's all about restoring agency to the children, asking them what they want and believe. The children, in turn perk up from the drained sterile atmophere into one of actual joy. This also occurs with cynical adults, as shown by Nobby the quintessential petty dirty cop returning to a state of relative innocence in the face of the new Hogswatch spirit. Death also takes the time to override a story about the tragedy of neglect (the little match girl) into one of compassion and life. Meanwhile, the introduction of Death's granddaughter is as a governess who is an outstanding one because when her charges tell her they fear the monsters in the dark, instead of chiding them for telling lies, she hands them a fire poker to defend themselves. Again, changing the narrative to enable children's agency, which serves them better than paternalism! The nature of the little lies we tell reflects pretty directly on how we construct the big ideals! "Little lies" aren't simply fiction, what the full text of the novel has told us is that the justifications we have for what we do in smaller-scale situations are the real demonstration of the big ideals. People say that the Spirit of Christmas is one thing, but their actions around the holiday prove what they really believe, and is also a pretty good predictor of how they would really dispense Justice. If someone thinks that the little match girl inevitably freezes to death at Christmas, do we really think they're going to be on board with what it actually takes to eliminate poverty, no matter what big talk they say about Family Values? Hogfather is a story in which the murderer's scheme is to literally control what children believe. Yet, once they no longer believe in the Hogfather (and what the Hogfather represents, "peace on Disc and goodwill to men"), that belief doesn't dissipate into thin air. Instead, it begins manifesting into new deities. People WILL believe in Something. In our world, modernism constructed The Grand Narrative. Post-modernism rejected it, but failed to provide any alternatives. The result hasn't been a world blissfully free of narratives. People will inevitably create little lies that reflect on their greater ideals. So, Death says, it is important that we care what those little lies are. And the Fire Poker of Children's Agency is what Susan uses to defeat the murderer. (What I've seen is that people who dislike "art makes us human" have assigned a prerequisite relationship to it. Similarly, what seems to bother you about this quote is that you've assigned a prerequisite relationship to it. So then, people who like either "art makes us human" or the Pratchett quote are baffled that the naysayers have come to that conclusion. How is the opposition of the quote here not analogous to "if you don't art, you aren't human?" "I don’t need to smash the universe to be human, but I also don’t NEED to get it from art, necessarily. Asserting that we’re BETTER people for doing art...I mean, it MIGHT be true. But you didn't say a study showed that, you're asserting that's what you believe." Do you not see how that's ludicrously uncharitable interpretation? I mean, you do, because that's the backlash you received against "art makes us human", and you were bewildered by it.)

That explanation makes a little more sense. I’ve seen the quote as “why we should tell kids there is a Santa Claus,” and honestly I’m… it’s not any kind of huge deal, but I’m kinda torn on that one actually. Maybe it’s my particular flavor of neurodivergence, but learning that adults made shit up and didn’t say so, ostensibly because hat made things more fun (for them? For me? For society?) has confused me all my life.

Like, it’s not a big deal, but I wish adults were a little more honest with kids about what they know to be true and don’t know to be true. This particular person didn’t love stories any less because people told me someone made them up.

So all I learned from “we smile and laugh when you ask if Santa’s real and assert that he is until we can’t any more” was “neurotypical adults have a strange idea of ‘fun,’ where they insist to you things are real that aren’t, and then think it’s funny when your reaction to this is ‘what the fuck? I trusted you as the human with more experience. Not cool!’ for some reason. Always be wary for this game, as it’s not obvious when they’re playing it. Gods are another example, fwiw. But be careful mentioning that one. Some of them are cool with it but some of them will straight up hurt you.”

And again, I’m… I’m sure fiction can help us understand abstract concepts, that isn’t the weird part. The weird part is the “if you smash the universe you don’t find any molecules of mercy or justice.”

Which I mean, I guess? But smashing the universe would destroy a lot of things and you wouldn’t find those in the powder either?

I don’t need to smash the universe to find justice, but I also don’t NEED to learn about it from fiction, necessarily. I can , say, watch the Jan 6 hearings, or if that’s too specific for some, observe living activists I admire who fight for it and don’t back down.

That’s the bit that grinds my gears. I love fiction. I’m passionate about writing it precisely because I think the whole experience of going through a story/plot with particular characters helps us to think through Great Issues in a unique and personally meaningful way. It feels magical that I can induce people t9 do that, and I’m jus5 some rando.

But asserting that we’re BETTER at learning thos3 lessons from fictional examples than from real life ones… I mean, it MIGHT b3 true. But Pratchett isn’t saying a study showed that. He’s asserting that’s what he believes.

It’s 7nderstandable ths5 a writer would believe that. We like to puff ourselves up. I do it too.

But I’m not sure that he actually knows it. That part sounds iffy to me.

And iffy to the character Death is chiding, which is probably why my reaction is “dude, stop chiding me, I’m not sure any of us actually know how moral learning works well enough to know stories work better than examples. Susan’s annoying to you, I get it, but tha5 doesn’t actually make her obviously wrong.”

[stabigail]

For the character ask meme, Discworld (general) or Discworld (your fave cast) if the first one is too big

ooh this is a good one. i . . . was going to do both but i can’t pick a favorite cast? damn. so i’ll do general, monstrous regiment, and watch because i am a disaster :|b

GENERAL.

The first character I first fell in love with: susan sto-helit! because she is beautiful and scary and my wife. also hogswatch was the 2nd discworld book i read, right after the light fantastic, so it made a big impression on me tbh.The character I never expected to love as much as I do now: man there are a few of these. i think granny weatherwax is definitely one, although i don’t know how i was surprised by that. brutha DEFINITELY. i would die for brutha.The character everyone else loves that I don’t: tiffany aching. i just didn’t care for her books much im sorry world. i want to try and read them again though to see if an older, wiser me with less internalized misogyny likes her more. i also really don’t care for rincewind as a character, although he is a funny like . . . concept. sight gag. thing.The character I love that everyone else hates: i honestly don’t know who everyone hates in discworld, but i love everyone so i mean.The character I used to love but don’t any longer: man idk? no one i think? i used to love agnes more than i do now but other than that . . .The character I would totally smooch: susan. angua. sally. like most of the ladies in this series period.The character I’d want to be like: P O L L Y P E R K S im putting that here tooThe character I’d slap: a lot of them tbh. any of the upper crust of a-m. anyone who hurts otto.A pairing that I love: otto/wdw/sacharissa is real good. also sally/angua(/carrot).A pairing that I despise: vimes/vetinari causes me abiding anguish because like isn’t it enough to erase a canonical marriage in favor of i guess hate fucking but then also HURTING SYBIL RAMKINS BEAUTIFUL FEELINGS? LET THEM BE MCFUCKING MARRIED AND IN MCFUCKING LOVE. i’m ride or die for the vimeseses.

MONSTROUS REGIMENT.

The first character I first fell in love with: pollyThe character I never expected to love as much as I do now: jade, blouse, jackrum, the major from the court martial whose name ider . . .The character everyone else loves that I don’t: n/a i love everyone (except strappi) (but no one loves strappi)The character I love that everyone else hates: i dont know?????? i love everyone!!!The character I used to love but don’t any longer: i love EVERYONEThe character I would totally smooch: mal honestly because i have bad taste. also polly.The character I’d want to be like: still pollyThe character I’d slap: blouse tbhA pairing that I love: mal/polly obviously but also like: tonker/lofty aka gay cultureA pairing that I despise: breaking up tonker & lofty

THE WATCH.

The first character I first fell in love with: vimes. vimes vimes viMES VIMES VIMES VIMESf rom the first second of guards guards with him lying in the gutter, my forevercopThe character I never expected to love as much as I do now: carrot... i should hate him but i love himThe character everyone else loves that I don’t: hmmmm i’m kind of neutral towards cheery but even with that i’m fondThe character I love that everyone else hates: i dont know....... i definitely love detritus a ton but i fyou don’t love detritus you are a heartless monsterThe character I used to love but don’t any longer: i used to like nobby and sgt colon more than i do now but i still love themThe character I would totally smooch: angua & sallyThe character I’d want to be like: uhhh hm. angua has a lot of emotional Issues but she’s also really cool so angua.The character I’d slap: carrot, sometimes. vimes, sometimes.A pairing that I love: sally/angua(/carrot). i have really mixed feelings about angua/carrot though i have to admit because they seem to keep butting up against this sense of angua feeling kind of restricted? which makes me sad, and definitely makes her sad, which is sad. also, sybil/vimes (BANGS GONG)A pairing that I despise: nobby/anyone

[ask-a-m-city-watch]

Any festive plans for Hogswatch or is it just business as usual for the Watch?

N: Well, Vimesy just had me sell...I mean, "dispose of" the meat we had around the Yard, since it was starting to make Angua a bit...Fred, what would you say it was makin' her?C: Salivatory, Nobby.N: Yeah. She wasn't able to stop drooling.C: Captain Carrot kept saying how it was adorable.N: Yeah, that was real sweet of 'im!