#the ones I definitely want to do are the Lannisters + Dany and if I’m not bored by then I’ll do more

[melrosing]

starks + theon DONE

more here

[atopvisenyashill]

god that person is soooo full of brain worms or something because like even as a dany lover, i see everything you’re saying about her as great observations based on the text. She’s young, she’s traumatized, of course when she gets over to westeros it’s not going to end as well as she hopes. The only thing I can pray for is that George writes her end better than D&D did because it was atrocious how her most trusted advisors went from being her biggest supporters to acting like “no actually her grief from losing her best friend and two of her dragons who were as much like children to her as anything could be means she’s just as mad as her father”, especially when Tyrion never knew Aerys!! I would love to see her descent into madness, see how all of her losses stack and utterly break her, but the way those two switched up real quick was honestly disgusting to me

YEAH like I think the biggest issue with the show is that she’s surrounded by characters who are pale imitations of their book selves or characters she’s just NOT supposed to be interacting with like that. There’s no doubt in my mind that Tyrion is going to flip sides & it’s probably going to spell her doom, but the Tyrion in the books is in a vastly different, much darker place currently than the Tyrion she met in the show and that’s going impact their dynamic MASSIVELY. Varys is NOT some monarchial marxist aksjdj he’s a mad scientist trying to hand make the perfect king bc he’s seen the destruction caused by bad ones and he thinks he’s Above It All when in reality his traumas as a slave inform his bad behavior just as surely as they inform Melisandre’s. The show doesn’t want to engage with all of that though so Tyrion & Varys just kind of nonsensically flip on her for *checks notes* acting the exact same way she’s been acting for years when they never had a problem with her stupid behavior BEFORE s8.

And i go back and forth on what I think is going to happen but ultimately YEAH i do think george is going to write an ending that is much more fitting and also, despite what the targ nation people insist upon, TRAGIC than what we got. It’s going to hit harder, it’s going to be thematically interesting, it’s not going to be george going for the ~cool~ or wow shocking plot line the way those two idiots did!

But definitely the thing that hit my rage button on that one is this idea that like first of all, dany isn’t somehow mentally ill or that the presence of mental illness is a weakness or moral failing. I don’t know how you even exist on terros without developing something deeply unhinged in your brain, and dany meanwhile has a conga line of trauma and some ancient blood magic and incest cooking in HERS, i don’t think i’m saying anything out of pocket by saying “yeah i think she displays some patterns of behavior that are worrying when you essentially have a pet nuke.” but two it’s also like - ALL of these people are insane!!!! lannister, stark, tully, martell, baratheon, targaryen, greyjoy, on and on, they’ve all lived through at minimum one but some of them several wars that completely upended their lives and killed a lot of their family, and then got thrown into stressful situations that require a much more delicate hand than any of them are capable of. that’s the whole series!!! it’s just a bunch of insane people going “yeah exactly girl let’s do it” and “it” is usually war!!!

[15-lizards]

More southern ASOIAF headcanons for my mental health

Robb: star football player who gets drafted for a D1 college. He is absolutely the sweetheart of the SEC world. Definitely the next Joe Burrow. Has a million followers on insta and all of his posts are professionally edited. On the outside there’s nothing wrong with him but he actually has a dark secret (he’s just dating theon). Margaery is absolutely his sorority girl gf before they both realize they’re gay.

Arya: absolutely insane. Begs Ned to go along on hunting trips and can shoot a rifle like a grown man. She’s one of those kids that eats the heart of the first deer they kill. Runs around barefoot in the backwoods and the gravel roads. Sustains herself on bug juice from the gas station and honeysuckle plants that grow outside the house. Just true southern trash I love her.

Dany: Weird horse girl to the MAX turned highschool overachiever. Still rides horses but had a breakdown and a personality 180 after middle school and is now class president bc she wanted to make friends. Is in like three thousand clubs and is somehow the head of all of them. She has such a nice speaking voice but her accent only slips out when she’s angry. Ridiculously active in the local community. We all know that girl. We all know she needs Xanax and we love her.

Catelyn: Facebook mom. Keeps their suburban front lawn looking SPOTLESS. Always cheering Robb on at his games, makes the rest of the Starks dress in the school colors and take family pictures. Doesn’t like to gossip unless that person deserves it but when she does she absolutely tears them apart. Always hosts the neighborhood block parties. Ends up feeding half the neighborhood children when her kids bring them home after they were out playing when the streetlights come on.

Theon: Drug dealer who lives in the backwoods I’m sorry. He barely graduated highschool and likes to chew dip so thick you can’t understand what he’s saying. Actually kind of smart but didn’t care enough about school. Always showed up in his stupid lifted truck. Always smells like either cigarette smoke or weed. Just gives off dirty vibes but he was always pretty chill to hang around with surprisingly. Always had weird respect for the smart kids or the ones who didn’t want to do drugs. Somehow this is all appealing to Robb

Cersei: Evil Facebook mom. Passive aggressive to your face like she isn’t even going to be fake nice. Everyone’s always kissing her ass in her comments section as she humble brags about Myrcella being on the honor roll or Joffrey making the baseball team (the Lannisters have the stadium named after them). She knows if you don’t show up to church and makes sure all of her friends (who she hates) know about it too when they have brunch afterwards. But she is so fine. True southern milf. All of Joff’s classmates never shut up about his mean hot mom.

Davos: Your nicest old man neighbor ever. He’s Theon’s closest neighbor (two miles down the road) and is always trying to set him on the right path. Will def lend you money if you need it. No one’s really sure what he does for a living but he’s probably good at it. Always letting the nearby kids run around in his yard while he keeps an eye on them from the porch. He woodworks in his spare time. Everyone nearby has a swing set or a crib or a table he carved for them. Also gives the wisest, most sage advice ever uttered by anyone ever. He dropped out so he can’t read very well but Shireen always walks down the road after school to teach him :,)

Lysa: god she is just. Batshit crazy. Slightly normal until you walk into her ugly suburban mansion (that her old ass husband paid for) and she starts talking about Qanon. Such a conspiracy theorist and Robin is most definitely not vaxxed because those give you autism duh. Tries to return clothes she got like three years ago to Target and gets mad when they won’t refund her. Gives fast food workers a hard time. Or any service workers really.

Dolorous Edd: That man is a Waffle House employee. Trains Jon how to cook while taking an order while smoking a cigarette all at once. Cleans up questionable needles in the bathroom and needs to take a smoke break outside afterwards. You have never seen a man look so jaded yet make you the most fire fucking hashbrowns you have ever eaten in your life. No one knows what he does off the clock he’s a mystery. He just comes in, complains, makes waffles, leaves. Has thrown hands with a customer. Multiple times. Never loses.

[atopvisenyashill]

oh definitely, i mean one of the biggest issues i have with the show that i’m looking forward to the books not doing is making the smallfolk just endlessly stupid & cruel. we don’t get scenes where they do good things or kind things that often, they take everything that’s interesting about the brotherhood without banners and flatten it, they turn davos into A Rational Atheist to make him more palatable despite his issues with Melisandre being partially based on faith, they completely cut the water gardens & its importance from the show (but let’s not talk about dorne lol).

i do think both the show and the books tend to show us the humanity of the soldiers through the lannister army tho - we’re most primed to dislike them because they fight for “the bad guys” and then arya finds that harrenhal being under bolton rule is worse & brienne comes across femicide victims of stark soldiers, and the war drags on & culty splinter groups start cropping up in the riverlands & crownlands bc that’s what happens when the leaders fail. i think the awkwardness of this scene was in part bc, in cutting the entire riverlands story line & most of dorne, a lot of Aegon VI & Dany’s conquest as well as the fall of House Lannister stop making sense bc most of the action is in the riverlands, and not KL as the fighting drags on in the field but not as much at the capital (at the capital there’s starvation and desperation, but at least they haven’t been attacked in a hot minute). all of these stories of smallfolk struggling against tully, stark, AND lannister loyalists in arya, lsh, brienne, and jaime’s stories are just completely excised and i think they tried to slap all of that into dany’s one story arc but did it like. very badly lol. bc dany is playing aegon’s role while still playing herself despite those roles being completely at odds, while cersei is also playing aegon which gives her plot armor that she will not have in the books.

so it’s definitely badly and messily done bc they wanted to keep dany as a hero and cersei as a villain for a long time & completely cut out all the characters around them but talisa forces us to empathize with the lannister army early so it’s not the first time they’ve asked the audience to sympathize with lannisters; the four posters have an issue with dany being seen as a villain period tho and are making the argument that wanting a scene where we empathize for the lannister soldiers is misogyny which is just like, a really dumb argument lol.

i don’t think the op is pro the show, just pointing out that it’s stupid to criticize attempts to make us empathize with soldiers bc the books constantly ask us to empathize with soldiers & are likely about to really hammer home that dany’s conquest has dire consequences for the smallfolk of westeros.

So next episode, I really need a establishing shot of the aftermath of the Field of Fire 2.0. I need the shot to end on the dead, burned face of one guy from the ed-sheeran-squad. Preferably the guy who will now never see his newborn child, who died without even knowing if it is a son or a daughter he leaves behind.

D&D wrote in a scene just to humanize the lannister soldiers, now they should have the balls and deliver on it. Go on, show us what “war” really means. Do it right before Danielle starts justifiying her invasion. Grow a pair, D&D, I dare you. Do it.

[jackoshadows]

Is Dany really a underdog? She has dragons! She's top of the foodchain, not like the Starklings staying hidden and hunted. Arya, Sansa, Bran and Tyrion is who comes to mind when I think underdog.

When GRRM refers to underdogs he is referring to the characters at the start of the books. Jon, Dany, Arya and Tyrion are all underdogs when the story starts and Bran soon joins them in a couple of chapters. These are characters who don't normally fit into Westerosi society - that's GRRM's definition of the underdog. That they actively engage in changing their life, pursue power and obtain it doesn't negate their underdog status at the start. Jon is Lord Commander of the watch, doesn't change how he started the story and how he is still viewed as.

GRRM has always grouped Dany in along with the rest of the underdogs, sees her as a sympathetic character and identifies with her struggles.

2003 interview with GRRM (After ASoS):

Shaw: You created Jon as a bastard and an outcast from the get-go. Yet he's also one of the most attractive characters. Did you choose to make Jon a bastard to make him more attractive as an "underdog," or was his bastard birth central to the shaping of his character itself?

Martin: Almost all the characters have problems in some way. Very few of my major viewpoint characters have all the answers or have an easy path through life. They all have burdens to bear. Some of them are women in a society that doesn't necessarily value women or give them a lot of power or independence. Tyrion of course is a dwarf which has its own challenges. Dany is an exile, powerless, penniless, at the mercy of other people, and Jon is a bastard. These things shape their characters. Your experiences in life, your place in life inevitably is going to change who you are.

http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0410/theheartofasmall.shtml

Jon Snow has me in him, and Sam Tarly. The women too, Lyanna and Shaara, and the girls, Arya and Adara … Daenerys Stormborn, searching for that house with the red door. And Tyrion Lannister? Oh, yes. The Imp is me in spades, the horny little bastard.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjreiP50DG8

“I had a walk past that house every day on my way from the projects on 1st Street to 5th Street, and it’s like, well, that used to be our dock, that used to be our house. Now we don’t have a house, we don’t have a yard, but I had always had the sense of, yeah I’m poor, but I come from royalty, or I come from greatness that somehow was destroyed by the depression, by corrupt politicians, by things like that. So maybe that gives me a little of the emotional temperament to understand somebody like Daenerys Targaryen.

There was a watchman on the dock, though, and if he saw us he’d come out of his shed and shout at us. "Get out of here, you kids,” he’d yell. “You got no business here.” Yes, I do, part of me always wanted to shout back, you’re the one who’s got no business, my great-grandfather BUILT this dock.

This theme of fallen families is one that made it directly into A Song of Ice and Fire, George explained, in the characters Daenerys and Viserys Targaryen. With that same feeling of loss of a future, wondering about the family he never knew and their upper class lifestyles, he felt like disinherited royalty much like the two Targaryen siblings. When Dany reads about Westeros in the books she received from her wedding, or when Barristan told her stories about her brother Rhaegar, or she lands in Dragonstone and walks in her family’s home those are actually George wondering about his own family and dreaming of a better life stolen from him in the projects of Bayonne.

[whateverthedragonswant]

I’m not sure if you ever addressed this before but do you think Dany was “mad” in the end or full in charge of her faculties? I mean the last scene where she is so excited after literally Incinerating civilians makes me think she really is out of her mind. However, everything up to that point seems par for the course Dany. (Burning food/captives, threatening people)The real person she always was just taken to her full intent against people we knew not just mummers dragons such as slavers.

Hey, Nonnie! I'll be honest, I don't remember if I have before but no worries at all, I'll definitely go into it here. =)

With Dany in the end, I'm very much of the opinion that she was in complete charge of her faculties. When she makes the decision she does in 8x05, she is very much in control and of sound mind. D&D themselves said she decides "to make it personal" and that also indicates to me that she wasn't mad.

As far as the "mad queen" arc goes, I think it was split between Dany and Cersei. Those two had far too many parallels to each other (Sansa was also paralleled with them but also had enough contrast to set her apart from them in the end) and to the Mad King himself. Cersei blowing up the Sept is a prime example. While I don't think she was mad per se, and it was a very calculated move, her reaction to the event and being willing to kill however many innocent people along with her enemies reminds me of Aerys a bit. I get her motivation and it's definitely true to her character but that to me was walking that line a bit. As well as her goading Dany by executing Missandei when Drogon was sitting right there. All perfectly explainable for political and war and character reasons, but also makes you go 'hmm'. That's one of the things I love about this story so much, everything is so wrapped up in layers, it's never just one thing. Very complex and rich that no matter how many times you unwrap it, there's still yet another layer you can find when you go back to it.

When Dany decides to burn KL to the ground, she is absolutely making a sound and very thought out choice. For seasons, we have not only been getting hints of what's to come but also once she's in Westeros, we constantly have Tyrion and Varys reminding her/pleading with her not to burn down KL. And we get her reactions to those warnings; she's not very pleased:

7x02 - Dany mentions that if Viserys had the dragons, he would have attacked KL already. Tyrion reminds her that she's not here to be Queen of the Ashes. Dany appears disappointed and puts down the token she's looking at, saying "No"

7x04 - Dany is angry when she loses her allies and wants to fly to KL with the dragons. Tyrion tells her that they have discussed this but she tells him this bs line of clarification (well it becomes bs later on I should say) "My enemies are in the Red Keep." (and the reason it's bs is because she makes this decision in 8x05 and then goes on to attack KL before she makes it to the Red Keep)

7x06 - Tyrion and Dany talk about Cersei & Dany wants to know if they are laying any traps for her. Tyrion tells her that he doesn't think deceit and mass murder is the best way to start a new world. "Which war is won without deceit and mass murder?" He agrees but reminds her that she wants to build a better world. When he asks if that's the kind of queen she wants to be, Dany very nearly rolls her eyes, gets up to walk away, and changes the subject.

8x04 - Tyrion tries to get her to agree to the blockade plan but when he fails, Jon then speaks up - she agrees but she is not happy about it

8x04 - when Varys begs her not to destroy KL, Dany makes that whole destiny speech. When Tyrion proposes an option, she says point blank "Speaking to Cersei will not prevent a slaughter." She eventually agrees to meet, but says "But perhaps it's good that the people see that Daenerys Targaryen made every effort to avoid bloodshed and Cersei Lannister refused. They should know who to blame when the sky falls down upon them." - she was determined to bring "fire and blood" to KL & as her MO, it's the "evil woman's" fault, not hers & "it was necessary"

8x05 - Tyrion tries to talk sense into Dany and keep her from massacring the city and sure enough, we get her response of "In Mereen, the slaves turned on the masters and liberated the city themselves after I arrived." When Tyrion tells her that the people are afraid to go against Cersei, that they're hostages, she says "They are. In a tyrant's grip. Whose fault is that? Mine?" Tyrion tries again to reach her and when he asks for her to give KL the chance to ring the bells to surrender, Dany is not happy but begrudgingly agrees (which we now know she was bs'ing & never intended to accept surrender)

Not to mention for seasons before this her mantra of "A dragon is not a slave" is completely about her. She doesn't like being forced to keep her patience, to not burn everyone alive who she views as evil or that displeases her. We even see that in season 5 in Mereen where she's being forced to be a Queen and rule. Daario says as much in season 6, telling her she's a conqueror, not a ruler. Then Olenna tells her to be a dragon in season 7. She was always looking to liberate the world and rule it all herself.

So for that reason, I absolutely do not believe Dany was mad or had lost her mind. I think part of the great tragedy of Dany's story is that she had been forewarned time and time again. She had ample time and teaching and experience, ample foreknowledge, to not make the same mistake as Aerys (which adds to that two-sided coin she is with Jon where he had to learn not to make the same mistakes as Ned and Robb; but that's the difference between them, he learned & she didn't). She had powerful resources at her disposal to actually make the world a better place, to be a good and benevolent ruler, and she had many people believing in her and that she could make it happen. But she still chose to go down this path, despite everything telling her not to. So she absolutely had her own agency in the end, and she definitely made her own choice. While I wish they hadn't rushed it and they had executed the end of her dark turn a bit better, to me, it absolutely played out the way it was always going to. Dany was always going to make that choice, one she couldn't come back from. Dany wanted to emulate Aegon the Conqueror so badly, felt it was her destiny even, but even Aegon (as brutal as he could be) left some people alive that he conquered to be ruled over. She was intent on destroying everyone who didn't do things her way and didn't show her the love she felt she deserved.

So to go back to that choice she makes, another reason I feel she is in control is because of the factors surrounding that moment of decision for her. The show purposely left in the sound of people in KL crying out for the bells to be rung so the bloodshed could stop. They purposely showed us how the Lannister army surrendered. Dany had won; she had conquered Cersei and her retinue. But it wasn't enough. And they showed that by everything visually and audibly surrounding this moment. It all goes back to "I don't have love here" and "People used to look at me like that, but never here. Never on this side of the sea." When she conquered across the sea, people rejoiced because she was killing "evil men". Here, they've seen a tyrant before. So she definitely made a choice.

As for her burning children, I hate to say it but that was always coming, too. I think if there was any madness on her part, which I hesitate to use that word but I guess it could be considered a type of delusion if you will, was her idea of her destiny. I think Tyrion puts it perfectly in 8x06 "And each time she became more sure that she is good and powerful and right." She is so set on liberating people from tyrants and yet she is one. It's not that she doesn't know she's a tyrant by the end, but she believes she's the right type of tyrant that the people need. She wants to break the wheel to install her own. And more importantly, she believes that she is entitled to the world her family had ruled over for centuries. She believes it's her birthright and that she truly is the Princess Who Was Promised. Despite how things with the NK went and that Arya ended up fulfilling that prophecy. Instead, Dany thinks she was the Queen Who Was Promised. She is the Dragon after all. Which, ironically Jorah even says in 7x07 "Dragons don't understand the difference between what is theirs and what isn't." So if I were to look at anything and think that she might be out of her mind with, it might be that.

And one other thing which you mentioned: her enjoyment/thrill of burning people alive aka her meting out her special brand of justice. I know you meant after the massacre (there were so many problems with that throne room scene dialogue she had; it negated her entire arc and kept her sympathetic to the GA; iirc I think I read somewhere that Emilia had insisted on the scene being changed which makes sense, she spent a decade of her life including two very serious medical events that happened playing this character, she was close to Dany and some might say too close tbf, but I get it) but it has definitely been there before. I remember when Viserys' death happened and Dany's stone cold expression. While Viserys was not a good guy, and he had just threatened her and her baby (not to mention the years of abuse she suffered previously), her lack of reaction to him being killed in such a brutal way, considering he was her last living relative, I remember that bothered some folks, as it should. Even D&D said that was a key moment for those to feel uncomfortable with for her, even back then.

So that's really the only two ways I could see some madness peeking through. Otherwise, no, I think she was of sound mind and very lucid. She knew exactly what she was doing when she made that decision in 8x05. If you look at the shots they showed us in 8x05, her attacks were very purposeful and targeted. Granted, once she made that choice, we never saw her POV again (we now know they did that on purpose thanks to Miguel Sapochnik's explanation) but from Arya's, Jon's, and everyone else's POV on the ground, we see how she purposely had Drogon lighting up the streets and from Cersei's POV, we also see how Dany is going from street to street in a pattern. She started near the gates and moved inwards, working her way towards the Red Keep, but making sure not to miss one street.

And even after she lit up the Red Keep, she went back to making sure that not one square inch had been missed. Even going so far as going back to the entrance of the city.

(Jon and the Northmen are retreating in that very direction, the same direction we see them return into the city again with Tyrion in 8x06 - she literally went back to make sure no one escaped KL/her wrath)

All very methodical, purposeful, and absolutely lucid.

In 8x05, when she does this, we see the true Dany that has been there all along, the one that was always hinted at but had been restrained/simmering under the surface. She was now unleashed. She was the dragon. And a dragon is not a slave. A dragon doesn't show mercy or appear weak. A dragon also doesn't share or play well with others. A dragon is meant to be the one who makes others submit, and expects to be on top, always.

The dragon also expects to be revered and be looked at with "wonder and awe" despite being "terrifying". And when they aren't...

I'll just go back to what Jorah said above about dragons not knowing what's theirs and what isn't. "Land, livestock, children. Letting them roam free in the city would have been a real problem." So I completely agree with you, Nonnie, that this was always going to be the full intention of her character, this is who she really was, and this was definitely on brand for her.

So, no, I don't think she was mad in the way that the GA thought the show had reduced her arc to. She was fully in control.

I hope I was able to answer your question, Nonnie. Thank you for this ask! I LOVE LOVE LOVE talking about GoT, but especially about Dany and her dark turn, so thank you!!!

I hope you have a very nice rest of your night!!! <3

[the-king-andthe-lionheart]

This is really laughable.  They really are deluding themselves into thinking Sansa has any meaningful Lyanna parallels.  They are also really desperate to shoehorn Sansa into relationships with Baratheon’s, be it to try to parallel her with Lyanna or Ned.  And how is Sansa paralleling Lyanna when it comes to Joffrey when Joffrey isn’t even biologically a Baratheon, and Sansa never made an actual real attempt to run from him, unlike Lyanna who obviously ran from Robert.  Sure she met up with Ser Dontos and there were vague plans of escape, but their actual escape took place after her betrothal was broken and she was married to Tyrion Lannister.  Not much of a parallel.

Also I love how they keep trying to say that character parallels only work if the author is “rewriting” their story, but fail to realize that their copy/paste rhetoric means that if GRRM is literally rewriting Sansa to follow Lyanna’s story almost perfectly that means Sansa is going to die by the end.  But I mean these are the same people thinking Jonsa is going to parallel Jonnel/Sansa even though that Sansa had a rotten time and died prematurely as well.

Also do these people not understand that parallels aren’t meant to be one for one, and that when GRRM purposely make paralleling characters, especially to the point where they are literary mirrors, it’s most likely meant to exemplify the “history rhymes but does not repeat” theme that’s out there.  Which means these characters, despite their similarities and parallels, are meant to make different choices?  Arya and Lyanna are literary mirrors which likely means Arya narratively needs to survive the story, but not just that, but she needs to not make the same mistake as Lyanna by running away.  Arya has a tendency to run away from conflict.  We see this in Arya I AGOT and Sansa I AGOT, and then we see it numerous times after that because of life and death situations.  It’s definitely a flaw of Arya’s (when it’s not a life or death situation) and considering we have the “The longer you hide, the sterner the penance” quote for Arya, and the “The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives” quotes, along  with this it stands to reason that Arya is meant to come out of hiding and stop running away because the longer she hides, the more consequences she may face narratively because of it.  Hence, Arya needs to overcome this flaw of hers and metaphorically “burn her ships” when she gets home.  Sansa also has a very different literary mirror as well with Lysa Arryn, and it’s likely she will have to overcome LF’s manipulation before he destroys her like he destroyed her aunt.  But Stansa’s don’t want to hear this because they seem to see it as hate when you compare Sansa with her “overweight, murdering, unhinged” aunt, despite the fact that you are literally saying that despite their similarities and parallels, we think Sansa will do better for herself than Lysa did.  How exactly is that hate again?

I’m also not sure why these idiots take such issue with canon.  It was GRRM who decided that it was Arya who would most parallel Lyanna.  This is canon fact because of how similar these two are and how many parallels they share, not to mention the many times GRRM compared the two in the narrative.  And it was also GRRM who made Arya THE MAIN STARK HEROINE.  This is canon.  GRRM has 5 Key Protagonists, and Arya is among them, not Sansa and he has never taken back the fact that he named Arya, Dany, Jon, Bran, and Tyrion as the main protagonists.  He also created Arya before Sansa and she was not created equal to Arya in importance, and Arya and Dany are tied as his second favorite characters after Tyrion being in first place.  He is also the one who wrote more chapters for Arya than Sansa (she has the third most chapters), and put her in every book, and wrote her story much richer than Sansa’s.  Sorry, not sorry, but GRRM and the narrative has already told us that Sansa is not the main Stark heroine, it’s Arya. 

This doesn’t mean Sansa isn’t important, she is in a different type of way.  She’s not on the same tier as Arya, Dany, Jon, Bran, and Tyrion.  She is on a different tier with Jaime, Brienne, Cersei, Samwell, Theon, Catelyn, Eddard, and Davos.  All these characters are important to several different storylines and are intrinsic to the weaving of the web.  Sansa may not end up being queen, and she may not be an active participant in the War for the Dawn, but she is poised to get rid of Littlefinger, and she may play a part in providing aid and resources for the war if she manages to gain some power or more influence in the meantime if she gets her head out of her ass and starts becoming proactive and autonomous.  I’m also not going to sit here and deny Sansa has no similarities to Lyanna, she does, albeit minor in comparison to the similarities and parallels Arya shares with Lyanna.  I am also of the mind that we will see some Sansa and Lyanna parallels in TWOW, although they may be anti-parallels or not complete parallels.  Harry the Heir definitely reminds us of a Robert Baratheon type young man, and I do think it’s likely Sansa could be named Queen of Love and Beauty at her tourney, however that doesn’t mean she will share the same level of parallels/similarities with Lyanna as Arya does.

Arya and Lyanna, on the other hand, are remarkably similar in personality (non-conforming, willful, emotional, protective, and pragmatic), looks (Ned tells Arya that she looks like Lyanna, and when Bran had a vision of Lyanna and Benjen he thought Lyanna was Arya), and even in speech patterns (their fondness of using the word “stupid”).  They also share a love of flowers, swordfighting, and horseriding.  And that’s not the end to their parallels.  They are both protectors of the weak - Arya protected Mycah against Joffrey, while Lyanna protected Howland Reed against a group of highborn squires.�� Arya and Lyanna both spend a significant amount of time in Harrenhal where they met up with their betrothed (Robert Baratheon and Elmar Frey).  Lyanna is set up to be in a love triangle with a Targaryen man and a Baratheon man, while Arya’s two most significant relationships outside of her parents and full siblings is with her half-brother/cousin Jon (a Targaryen) and Gendry (a Baratheon).  Arya has a tendency to run away and Lyanna most likely ran away by choice with Rhaegar.  Lyanna was “kidnapped” in the Riverlands and Arya was kidnapped several times in the Riverlands.  Brandon Stark’s love for Lyanna caused his execution and Jon Snow’s love for Arya caused his execution/assassination.  And speaking of that parallel, Arya’s relationships with Jon and Bran reflect Lyanna’s relationships with Brandon and Benjen.  Arya and Lyanna also don’t like their betrotheds and end up running away with one of the guys in their love triangles.  And of course both girls lost their mother’s, father’s and oldest brother’s at a young age.

Arya may not perfectly parallel Lyanna, in fact she obviously has some subversions, especially when it comes to her relationship with Gendry, but that’s the point of her being a literary mirror to Lyanna.  She’s not supposed to be a one for one replica of her, but either way you spin it, Sansa just doesn’t compete with this.  And I don’t understand why Stansa’s are so fucking desperate to have this paralleling character or why they are obsessed with trying to take this away from Arya’s narrative.  But then again they are always desperate to steal from Arya.  You can bet that if Arya and Lyanna weren’t literary mirrors and the similarities weren’t conspicuously written out on the pages, they wouldn’t give one flying fuck about Lyanna.  But because it’s Arya who parallels Lyanna, and because it’s Arya who is closest with a Targaryen prince, as well as another royal bastard with Gendry, it makes her a threat to Sansa.  Honestly I wish they’d just leave and go obsess over a SJM novel because that seems more up their alley than this series that will never leave them satisfied because they rely on fanon bullshit and their own desires to shape what they think they know about the books and the future of the series.  It’s bullshit and it’s annoying.

Also this desperate desire to have Sansa be the girl in gray in the books is absolutely fucking pathetic because it blatantly ignores many factors of canon.  Like how the girl in gray is specified and confirmed to be Alys Karstark who Melisandre mistakenly thought was Arya because Alys has the Stark look and looks like an older version of Arya.  Sansa does not have the Stark look.  There is no mistaking her for being Jon’s sibling because her face is not long and she does not have the solemn gray eyes of a Stark.  Not to mention, how do they expect Sansa to even get to the Wall in time for Jon to be resurrected and by the time he leaves it when she’s in the Vale, it’s winter, and she has zero wilderness skills?  Stannis is literally stuck in the snow not far from Winterfell due to the winter storms and it literally takes almost two weeks to reach the Wall on horseback in the summer from Winterfell.  How?  Again how is Sansa going to do this?  Even if she has someone there with her to help her they still would need a ton of supplies in order to survive that journey.  Even if Sansa takes a ship somehow, the Winter weather is making the Northern seas perilous.  Like please, stop ignoring book canon because you are so desperate for Sansa to have her show ending.  There is absolutely no way Sansa would survive a journey to the Wall on her own, or even with a companion.  The North is probably facing 20x more of a winter than the show ever fucking depicted so it’s absolutely ridiculous to believe Sansa’s story is anything remotely like it will be in the show.  Not to mention, Sansa has a whole story that takes place in the Vale, that is far from over.  Like get over it, your fav will never be QitN like in the show, not when it relied on completely changing book Sansa’s arc and her entire personality.  Not to mention the fact that D&D stole other characters storylines and characteristics just to give to her.  It wasn’t just Jeyne Poole they stole from.  They stole from Arya and Jon and Bran just to prop that narcissistic psychopath up.  Get over it for the love of god.

So here's how Sansa is the centre of everything

[captainelliecomb]

WIP Wishlist Round Eight

WIP Wishlist time again! Round One, Round Two, Round Three, Round Four, Round Five, Round Six, Round Seven

How have I been doing this for eight months now? I’ll have to do another updated WIPs list soon.

The Blessings of the Old Gods and the New by libkat (14,832 words, last updated 08 Aug 2018)

Summary: Danaerys wants Jaime dead. Bran works some magic.

Things I love: Little Jaime and Brienne with their itty bitty direwolves stole my heart, Bran and his powers (“Do not think to threaten me in my own godswood” I love him), Sansa absolutely besotted with the children, Davos acting as the voice of reason as he does so well (Dany: I’m killing Jaime Lannister child or not. Sansa: You’d have to kill me first. Arya: I’d kill you first. Davos, poor man: No one is killing anyone. The “you murderous children” was left unspoken), the entire environment of Winterfell for these two adorable children.

Brave New World by suffolkgirl (114,962 words, last updated 29 Nov 2021, one chapter to go)

Am I cheating with this one? Yes, yes I am, unrepentantly. It’s almost finished, it will be finished, sometimes I just want a win. This story is an absolute win.

Summary: When his relationship with both his siblings implodes, Jaime Lannister decides to start a new life in a place where no-one knows him. But it may not be as easy to escape his past as he thinks...

Things I love: Sam, Jon, and Jaime’s friendship, this iteration of the Quiet Isle, the gaming gang, the slow burn between Jaime and Brienne, the Lannister nastiness and cruelty, a believable look at what it’s like to get sucked back into a toxic environment, the softness in Jaime he’s had to bury for so long, Jaime and Sansa’s friendship and bonding over surviving abuse.

Break the Shape We Take by classeyspanks (7,185 words, last updated 18 Nov 2021)

Summary: R'hllor gazed upon her Love, her pale fingers tracing the brow of the babe he held in his arms.“When the veil between the realms thins, she will be needed.”Her husband shifted the child’s weight, his lips whitening as he pressed them tightly together. “She didn’t ask for this. I… I just want her safe.”“She will have help.”Far away, in the depths of the Citadel, a single glass candle flickered to life for the first time in millennia.

Things I love: Intriguing worldbuilding, particularly around the Evenstar prophecy, Jaime needling at Brienne because he loves to see her eyes and her blush and to argue with her, something dangerous lurking in the trees and impaling deer on branches, Brienne brave and fearless when she’s doing what she’s been born to do and awkward and withdrawn otherwise, Jaime and Brienne teaming up.

This Broken Jaw of Our Lost Kingdoms by Vera (vera_dragonmuse) (8,257 words, last updated 22 Nov 2021)

Summary: Eight years ago, a fragile peace was forged in the heat of a bloody war. Now shifter tradition orders that all will come together to discuss law, treaties, and to try to accept what the world has become. Brienne just wants to see Sansa, the Wolf Queen of the North, there and back again safely. Fate has other plans.

Things I love: Interesting, engaging worldbuilding, how Sansa and Brienne work together, Brienne and Pod’s friendship across lines, shapeshifting, the sharp-edged history between Brienne and Jaime.

The Blue Knight vs The Kingslayer by seethemflying (104,654 words, last updated 20 Sep 2021)

Summary: "Brienne, 23.Office worker by day, superhero by night. Loves cats. No smokers please." By day, Brienne Tarth is a twenty-three year old cat lover who is slowly exploring the possibility of finding a nice boyfriend through online dating. By night, she is a superhero known as The Blue Knight, who is dedicated to bringing down her archnemesis, The Kingslayer...... who she definitely does NOT have a thing for.

Things I love: Brienne and Pod’s friendship and teamwork, the sheer silliness and threat of the Kingslayer, Imp, and Evil Queen, the Honor League, the sweetness and softness between Brienne and Jaime while their alteregos wage war on each other, how over-the-top and joyful and perfect this is as a comic book story.

[astradrifting]

While Tyland seems to mirror Tyrion, the latter has already experienced all that in the book, hasn't he? Serving the wrong regime, being hated by the people, being badly disfigured etc. But now he's bringing an enemy with dragons to Westeros. Isn't that far beyond Tyland? I keep thinking the Lannister in the service of a rotten regime and for the wrong reasons (Cersei) might be Jamie. He too is disfigured. Is there a parallel for him in DoD?

(referencing this post)

Well, Tyland was sent across the Narrow Sea to Pentos to get sellswords for the Greens but failed, so maybe Tyrion bringing Dany across is meant to be him succeeding where Tyland failed. But you’re right, the foreshadowing events have already happened for Tyrion and it seems repetitive for his story to progress in exactly that way again. The show seemed to indicate that this was his endgame, but I could see D&D giving him this ‘happy ending’ purely because he’s their favourite, maybe swapping his ending with another character’s to facilitate it. The removal of the Tysha reveal so completely stagnated Tyrion’s character arc, which might be why D&D seemed to have no idea what to do with him post s4 aside from get him sucked into the Dany-cult.

There’s definitely meant to be a link between Ser Criston Cole and Jaime, though more of a mirror reflection than parallels. Cole was known as the Kingmaker, for his crucial role in playing Aegon II and Rhaenyra against each other at the start of the Dance, and was later made Aegon’s Hand. He was once Rhaenyra’s loyal sworn sword, until one of them spurned the other before her wedding to Laenor Velaryon. Either he asked her to run away with him to the Free Cities and she rejected him, or she tried to seduce him (for a second time) in the White Sword Tower and he rejected her. Either way, they clearly had a falling out, after which Rhaenyra turned to Ser Harwin Strong and Cole became a supporter of the Greens and Queen Alicent’s new sworn sword. This is similar to Jaime turning away from Cersei for her infidelity, though he doesn’t go so far as supporting the younger brother that will kill her and keeping her from the throne just yet.

Cole’s death is clearly a reference to the Red Wedding - at the Red Wedding, Robb was hit by three crossbow bolts, before Roose Bolton killed him while saying “Jaime Lannister sends his regards.” Criston Cole died at the Butcher’s Ball, a battle in the riverlands near the God’s Eye, killed by three arrows. The man in charge of the archers, and one of the men who killed him, was called Red Robb Rivers. His head was later put upon a spear and marched to another battle. But considering this is already a reversal of Robb’s exact fate in the books, I don’t know if Cole’s death is meant to provide foreshadowing for Jaime’s ending. He seems to be more of Jaime’s foil than a true parallel - Cole appeared to truly hate Rhaenyra in the end and worked to destroy everything she had, but I think Jaime is going to find it harder to give up on Cersei no matter what he says.

Some of Tyland and Tyrion’s parallels could actually apply to Jaime too, in some ways mapping closer to Jaime:

- Tyland was the younger twin of Lord Jason Lannister, as Jaime is Cersei’s younger twin.

- both were tortured and disfigured by the opposite side in war.

- Tyland’s policies benefitted lords, but made him hated by the smallfolk - similarly, Jaime’s slaying of Aerys actually benefitted the nobility, since it was they that Aerys tended to target, but has made him reviled by the smallfolk as the Kingslayer.

- Tyland advised Aegon II to kill his nephew Aegon the Younger instead of just gelding him or sending him to the Wall, because he would always be a threat to his reign. Tyrion has never threatened Bran (yet, at least), but Jaime has already tried to kill him, and later said that he should be killed, ostensibly for mercy but really because Bran was a threat to his and Cersei’s secret.

I’m still more inclined to think that Jaime and Cersei’s endings are linked in some way. But there’s also a lot of possible foreshadowing for Jaime being Hand within the books - @fedonciadale wrote a meta about Jaime possibly becoming Hand before s8. He also spends much of Feast riding around the Riverlands trying to clean up the war, during which he dreams of becoming known as Goldenhand the Just, instead of the Kingslayer. Of course, right now it’s incomprehensible why exactly either Bran or his council of regents would choose to make Jaime his Hand, aside from possibly appeasing supporters of the old Lannister regime, but Tyrion becoming Hand is pretty baffling too. I’d think that either of them would be especially insulting to both Sansa personally and the Martells, but if both the North and Dorne go independent at the end they probably wouldn’t have a say in who becomes Hand in the remaining kingdoms.

I don’t know why it would happen politically, but I could see why it might happen thematically. It might be a bitter, full circle of sorts for Jaime to end up loyally serving a king he’s already wronged.

In Jaime’s last AFFC chapter, he makes plans to eventually return to KL, but not for Cersei. He intends to separate Cersei from Tommen and find him a new small council, considering a slew of lords who could become the new Hand (even Baelish, bizarrely enough), but conspiciously not including himself, even though he’s already planning political manouevres and there have been previous Lord Commanders of the Kingsguard who have served as the Hand e.g. Ser Ryam Redwyne, and Ser Criston Cole during the Dance. He even wants to tell Tommen that he’s his father.

And he had done his own part here at Riverrun without actually ever taking up arms against the Starks or Tullys. Once he found the Blackfish, he would be free to return to King's Landing, where he belonged. My place is with my king. With my son. Would Tommen want to know that? The truth could cost the boy his throne. Would you sooner have a father or a chair, lad? Jaime wished he knew the answer. 

(AFFC, Jaime VII)

He seems to want a second chance, with Tommen after years of not truly acknowledging him as his son, and as a knight of the Kingsguard. The last king he truly served, he ended up stabbing in front of the Iron Throne. Robert barely even counts, because Jaime never had any real loyalty to him. Now he has grand plans to guide Tommen as king that will ultimately be disrupted, first by Lady Stoneheart, then likely by Aegon coming out of the woodwork and taking the crown from either Cersei or Tommen. If Jaime survives to the end of the series, he might end up serving a final king.

Bran and Tommen have often been linked to each other and contrasted throughout the series. They’re the same age, both second sons, and Sansa thinks explicitly that Tommen reminds her of Bran in ACOK. At the very beginning of AGOT, they have a sparring match, in which Bran knocks Tommen down:

There was a shout from the courtyard below. Prince Tommen was rolling in the dust, trying to get up and failing. All the padding made him look like a turtle on its back. Bran was standing over him with upraised wooden sword, ready to whack him again once he regained his feet.

(AGOT, Arya I)

There’s a more oblique link made when the Lannisters are discussing Bran’s fall:

“[...] There is nothing Lord Eddard can do for the boy in any case."

"He could end his torment," Jaime said. "I would, if it were my son. It would be a mercy."

"I advise against putting that suggestion to Lord Eddard, sweet brother," Tyrion said. "He would not take it kindly."

(AGOT, Tyrion I)

In AFFC/ADWD, Jon bitterly remembers the spar between Bran and Tommen:

"At Winterfell, Tommen fought my brother Bran with wooden swords," Jon said, remembering. "He wore so much padding he looked like a stuffed goose. Bran knocked him to the ground." He went to the window and threw the shutters open. The air outside was cold and bracing, though the sky was a dull grey. "Yet Bran's dead, and pudgy pink-faced Tommen is sitting on the Iron Throne, with a crown nestled amongst his golden curls."

(ADWD, Jon II)

Except Bran isn’t dead, and it’s Tommen’s prospects that aren’t looking good. By the end of the series, their positions will likely have reversed entirely from Jon’s statement - Bran will be the boy with a crown in his curly hair, while Tommen might be the one tragically killed in his home.

There would be something bitter and darkly ironic in it, if the boy-king Jaime gets a second chance with isn’t the son he desperately wants to know, but the boy he threw out of a window.

[aboveallarescuer]

Btw, I wonder if you ever thought about the Jaime/Cersei and Dany/Daario relationships paralleling eachother? I never see people talking about it but some of their quotes and scenes seem intentionally similar to me. + For example, how Daario and Jaime's (yes, Jaime Lannister is a toxic romantic partner, the fandom can stay mad) reaction to their respective marriage proposals are heavily linked with posession (more so than love).

First of all, Anon, I'm assuming you're the same person who sent me two asks, this one and another about Tyrion. Re: the latter ask, I basically agree with your comments and have nothing substantial to add, so I'm going to focus on answering this one.

So, yes, I had thought about similarities between Dany/Daario and Cersei/Jaime before, but I'm glad you sent me this ask because you made me think of more parallels and antiparallels. They are certainly worth discussing because they highlight different aspects of Dany's and Cersei's characters and make it clear, once again, that they are meant to be foils.

(I'm not going to add book quotes here because I'm tired, sorry... But you can ask for evidence in another ask if you find anything I say questionable)

Daario and Jaime are both hot-headed, arrogant warriors presented as alternatives to the husbands of the two queens (Hizdahr, Robert).

Both Dany and Cersei love these men instead of their husbands.

Both Daario and Jaime react angrily when they find out that Dany and Cersei are going to marry.

Both Daario and Jaime ask the queens to leave their husbands and to be with them instead, but they both deny their requests.

Both Daario and Jaime offer to kill their queens' husbands for them. Both Dany and Cersei imagine the two men following through with their threats at some point.

Dany ends her affair with Daario after she takes Hizdahr as her consort. Cersei doesn't end her affair with Jaime after marrying Robert (and she did nothing wrong in this particular situation).

Neither Dany nor Cersei hides their affairs well (though it's worth noting that Cersei is being more reckless in doing so because she was queen consort and her power derived from Robert, while Dany was queen regnant and, therefore, had power in her own right. Indeed, Dany taking Daario as her lover is compared to Lewyn Martell, a man, taking a paramour in Dorne. That certainly isn't how the Faith views Cersei's affair with Jaime. Also, as I said above, Dany's affair lasted while she was unmarried, while Cersei's happened while she was married).

Dany thinks she'll never have a child with Hizdahr because she believes she's infertile. Cersei thought she'd never have a child with Robert back when he was alive because she always took measures to prevent that from ever happening (and she definitely did nothing wrong here).

Dany idealizes her relationship with Daario way more than Cersei idealizes hers with Jaime. For instance, Dany says to herself that she would give up her crown for Daario if he ever asked her to do so, but she doubts he ever would because she assumes he loves her solely because of her power. Cersei never considers giving up her crown for Jaime (to be fair, I don't think Dany would've done that for Daario either). In this particular case, I actually think that Rhaegar is Cersei's Daario, because it's with Rhaegar that Cersei dreamed and still dreams of marrying and having his children and living a blissful life together (though, even in that fantasy, Cersei would still want to be queen, while Dany thinks she'd be content living a normal life alongside the man she loves without any power or luxury in the house with the red door). Daario and Rhaegar (rather than Jaime) are the men who bring out Dany's and Cersei's romantic sides (which makes sense because Cersei idealized Rhaegar back when she was a young girl like Dany). Rhaegar is the one that got away for Cersei, and I imagine Dany will have similar feelings about Daario in the future.

At some point during their reigns, both Dany and Cersei send Daario and Jaime away, but for opposite reasons: Dany does so because Daario advised her to kill her subjects and she's appaled by the suggestion; Cersei does so because Jaime advised her to cooperate with her subjects and she assumes that that means he is disrespecting her authority (which he does sometimes, but not always).

It's harder for Dany to be apart from Daario than it is for Cersei to be apart from Jaime. Dany immediately regrets her decision to send him away and even goes as far as to think that, because she had an indirect role in Hazzea's death for allowing Drogon to roam freely, she is a monster just like Daario (seriously, how can anyone think that book!Dany is arrogant???). Meanwhile, Cersei only comes to regret her decision to send Jaime away after she needs his help, specifically after the Faith arrests her and she has no reliable option to choose to fight for her life in a trial by combat.

Both Dany and Cersei spend most of their storylines away from these men. (I could be wrong, but I don't think GRRM had Daario out of the picture because he was supposedly bored with him like I've seen some BNFs or 'neutrals' argue... I do think that was a choice specifically made to strengthen the parallels between Dany and Cersei).

Both Daario and Jaime feel jealous of Dany's and Cersei's relationships with other men throughout AFFC/ADWD.

Daario returns with the Stormcrows when Dany recalls him even though it would have been beneficial to betray her and turn to Yunkai's side, especially since he already knew that the Second Sons had done that. Jaime doesn't return when Cersei asks him to go back... You could even say that he switches sides, in a way, by deciding to prioritize Brienne's request instead. This is part of a larger pattern: while most of Dany's people (including Daario) remain loyal to her by the end, almost all of Cersei's allies abandon her. While it's said that Dany managed to keep everyone (former slaves and former masters) together, Cersei destroyed the Lannister-Tyrell alliance due to her poor decisions.

ADWD Daenerys X ends with Dany thinking about how Daario wouldn't mind seeing her in such a messy state like how she is by the end of the chapter. AFFC Cersei X ends with Cersei hoping against hope that Jaime will return and win her trial by combat. Both expect to be reunited with and to be saved by their lovers at the end of these chapters.

Dany doesn't trust Daario, but she doesn't close herself off from him either, which is why she has the support of the Stormcrows. Cersei says she lost her trust in Jaime, but then, by the end, she is in such a dire situation that she desperately decides to put all her hope in him and trust him way too much (to a degree that even Qyburn finds concerning since he lost his hand). This is part of a larger pattern: while Dany is wary of some people, she knows that she should still take risks and make alliances. This attitude doesn't make her omniscient and she is not immune to making mistakes or to people (like Brown Ben) betraying her, sure. That being said, Dany still remains open-minded, cooperates with influential allies and makes a peace agreement that could have worked if the deal wasn't inherently false for prioritizing the privileges of the masters over the lives of the slaves and if her primary goal wasn't to protect the disenfranchised first and foremost. Meanwhile, Cersei thinks she should distrust everyone, which leads her to alienate potential allies that could have been useful and to be surrounded by people who claim to agree with her on everything, but who are neither experienced nor reliable. Then she creates plans that rely way too much on these very untrustworthy people, which is why they backfire: from the construction of the dromonds (which she relied on Aurane Waters, who turned his back on her) to the attempt on Bronn's life (which she relied on Balman Byrch, who turned his back on her) to the scheme to have Margaery and her cousins arrested (which she relied on Osney Kettleblack, who turned his back on her) to the decision to rearm the Faith Militant (which she relied on the High Sparrow, who turned his back on her) to her decision to trust that Jaime (who also turned his back on her) will return to fight for her life ... I'm sure there are more examples, but that's enough to illustrate my point. Cersei's thinking is too extreme, while Dany has a healthy distrust of others. As a result, Cersei makes hasty decisions and burns bridges unnecessarily, while Dany is able to make more carefully weighed decisions, as well as to create and maintain important alliances.

Finally, I think Dany and Daario's relationship is more positive than Cersei and Jaime's. Not only there's no verbal abuse or disrespect of sexual consent like how it happens with Cersei/Jaime, but Daario didn't switch sides to Yunkai, gave her good counsel (such as when he tells her to hold court and reminds her that her children need her) and genuinely cares about Dany, which we see from when he tells her not to get married time and again to when we contrast him with Osney. He is possessive and brags about sleeping with her on some occasions, yes, but I think it was @evilwomen who pointed out in one of our conversations that Dany doesn't feel bothered by any of that, which goes to show how much she loves him, since she's willing to forgive actions that would be considered insults for his sake.

So, once again, thanks for this ask, Anon, it encouraged me to think about connections that I hadn't considered before.

And you know, I said this before and will say it again... This is why I think Dany is the YMBQ... Not just because she clearly fits all the requirements, but because she and Cersei were way too carefully written to parallel and contrast each other (so much so that the author mentioned that in multiple interviews). You said you "never see people talking about" the parallels between Cersei/Jaime and Dany/Daario, but look at how much I managed to find off the top of my head (and I'm not even sure this is comprehensive, tbqh)??? Now imagine that happening to all of their casts of supporting characters and to all the political events and to pretty much every single aspect of their characterizations and storylines. Their parallels and antiparallels are really overwhelming, and it's why I decided to make gifs showing why they're foils.

[iheartbookbran]

I think the whole Daenerys burning KL thing has a lot less to do with her than it does several other plot threads and themes in the story. Unfortunately I think GRRM is going to use Daenerys to confront the concept of paying for your ancestors crimes, her father put that wildfire there, her legacy (as a Targaryen, not as Daenerys herself) is literally built on fire and blood. The Targaryens might have united the 7 Kingdoms, but they did so with a lot of unnecessary bloodshed, and there was almost never a time in their history of reigning where there wasn't war. Daenerys as an individual is not responsible for any of this, and I wholeheartedly agree with you that she doesn't need to be taught a lesson about abuse of power, but unfortunately I think GRRM is going in this direction anyways, because he's going to use her as a climax for the entire Targaryen reign. It's a cruel sort of irony, that the place her ancestors built from the ground up will be the cause of her "downfall" and probably turn her into a morally ambiguous historical figure in the future, regardless of what she does to save Westeros from the others.

And there's the fact that the wildfire beneath KL is a huge chekov's gun. Someone *has* to ignite it, and if it's not Daenerys, I'm not entirely sure who it could be. Cersei is definitely a contender, but seeing as she doesn't know about the wildfire yet, it's a little bit of a reach. I think it would be a very tragic way to wrap up Daenery's storyline, but it seems like that's the direction GRRM is headed in :/

Hey there! Ok, a little disclaimer before I start: today I got my first covid vaccine shot and I’m a little dizzy as a result so I might not make much sense right now. Sorry in advance.

While I completely get the whole ‘paying for the crimes of your ancestors’ concept you’re bringing up, and that’s a theme GRRM is definitely fond of exploring, to me it would be like holding Dany at completely different standards than the rest of the characters. Because it’s one thing for Dany to be in conflict with her father’s legacy—which tbh I would say she already kinda is?—and another entirely to punish Dany for every bad thing the Targaryens ever did because Monarchies=Bad and therefore Targaryens=Bad. I mean we wouldn’t be getting anything similar from the other major POVs. For example, I don’t believe a house like that of the Starks could rule for literally thousands of years without a little blood in their hands, it’s just GRRM doesn’t focus as much on them (and they didn’t have dragons, but I already explained why I believe Dany doesn’t need a lesson on how her dragons can be dangerous in the first place).

I think when it comes to fathers and legacies characters like Dany, Tyrion and Jon are very similar because a part of their stories is about showcasing how they’re not like their fathers. Tyrion has to confront his father… and kill him so he can move on with his life, which in turn kickstarts the downfall of House Lannister, but that was something Tyrion was alive to see, and to question and to know that it wasn’t as glorious as his family wanted to believe it was, but instead shallow and rotten; Dany on the other hand never got to see her family in full power and reap the benefits of that; in fact, she was actively a target for most of her childhood because of her name. With Jon I think he will be confronted with the legacies of his biological Father (Rhaegar) and his adopted one (Ned), and try and decide which one he wants to honor, or that maybe he ought to forge his own path entirely.

Now with Dany, again she’s already starting to question Viserys’ narrative about their father, we see it in her conversations with Ser Barristan and her fears of ‘turning mad’ like Aerys (and tbh that’s all the reasons I need to know why she wouldn’t go mad) for me not to believe she’s going to try to distance herself from what her father represented. The destruction of KL and the knowledge of her father’s role in it would just solidify that in Dany’s head plus the internal emotional conflict that would come with it but without the extra steps of the author needlessly lecturing Dany (and us) about the dangers of unchecked power or that a throne is not all there is in life; I would argue Dany already knows that. She doesn’t need a reason or an excuse to be a rescuer, she already is one, as Tyrion (GRRM) said for several paragraphs in ADWD.

The part that you mention about the destruction of KL giving Dany bad PR? I believe she already has it lmao. Just remember how she was talked about during Quentyn and Tyrion’s POVs, while a lot of people love her, many others hate her guts to a hilarious degree and demonize her for what she’s done to the poor defenseless slave masters. Such are the woes of women who rise to power and then go like “hey… maybe owning people is wrong?” but I digress. As you said, there are currently many contenders for the honor of getting to burn KL, and who knows, maybe it will be a group effort! I suspect the dragons will be involved one way or another, but the stolen ones (idk if Euron will steal more than one dragon) so adding Dany to the mix wouldn’t make much sense except to make way for her showdown with Aegon VI, that at this point honestly I’m not that interested in. I think Dany has more important stuff going on for her. Like, there’s a lot of confrontations I would like to happen that I believe the narrative as it currently stands doesn’t have much room to allow to breathe properly, like Jaime/Tyrion, Cercei/Tyrion, Arianne/her family in general. At the end of the day those dragons are her dragons, her children, and she will blame herself strongly for whatever they do (and others will too, enthusiastically, I’m sure), just remember how much guilt she feels over Drogon killing that little girl, and no one was controlling him then, not even Dany.

So basically what I was trying to convey during this mess of a response is that I’m not saying Daenerys has no buisness in the KL conflict, but rather that making her the one responsible for its destruction would feel way too contrived for me, it would require the plot to stay on hold for god knows how long until she’s done with her business in Essos and it would do absolutely nothing for her character or development but rather serve as some kind of twisted double-standard in which only Dany has to atone for the sins of her ancestors, as if living exiled and destitude all her life wasn’t enough.

[agentrouka-blog]

You’ve probably already been asked, in that case sorry for asking again!

What do you think about the casting in GOT? Acting abilities aside, just physical appearance. Everyone seems to be a little bit dissatisfied in Sophie, but I think she has a perfect face for Sansa. Maybe Sansa’s eyes are a little bit bigger and I imagine her lips to be more plump, but otherwise Sophie is very close to Sansa imo. I think the “problem” is that Sophie has kind of a square jawline, and that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Do you imagine her and her mother and brothers to have a more oval shape, or softer? Emilia doesn’t look like a Targ to me, I think her face could be perfect for Margaery. Do you have a fancast for Targs (since they’re inbred they all look alike🤣)? Kit is definitely too handsome for Jon. I think Benjen’s actor is exactly what the Starks look like! But the Tullys definitely don’t look like how I imagined them. Does your Cersei come close to how Lena looks like? And Jaime?

How everyone imagines book characters to look like is deeply personal, and varies greatly. I’d like to hear your thoughts! I love reading how everyone visualizes them differently.

Hi there!

I'm not a great one for fancasting questions. I never have a clear, photographic image of the characters when I read. It's more about movement and mood and the way facial expressions feel.

Honestly, I think comics and fanart come closer to how the characters work in my head:

@icesalamander has wonderful and varied works, and just sort of grabs the cheer and sweetness and prettiness of Sansa.

@shebsart does a particularly wonderful Theon, and I love this whole panel especially for Jon, Bran, Dany and Sansa.

@francy-sketches kind of captures the internal essence of House Lannister like nothing else. From the draamaaaaa to the glamour to the silly.

@esmedalma is just all around fantastic and also captures the essence of Sansa and other characters (the way they feel to me) plus when she does color, she does color, and I want to walk through it like grass.

@6rosenrot is another favorite for sheer expression and prettiness.

There are many more, which will come to me approximately 13 minutes after posting this, but such is life.

(For all these artists, I stan the art, not their fandom preferences, which are strictly their business.)

[magalidragon]

n°7 - “Is there some space left in that bathtub?”

In the “Heat Wave” universe, pretty please!😊

YES! Love these beans! 🔥🔥🔥 And  because I also got another ask for this same universe, I’ve combined it into one Drabblish-ish (2700 words, not 2500, lol).  And THANK YOU FOR THE MOODBOARD DARLING!  Enjoy!

Smutty One Liner Prompts

7. “Is there some space left in that bathtub?”

10. “Jealousy seems to be a great motivator for you.”

Bliss, that's what this was, Dany thought, her eyes still closed, her breathing even, and her skin tingly and warm.  She sighed, exhaling out any worry she might continue to have—there was no more worry now that she was out of the Hell House and living in Heaven's Hall—her body nestled in a soft, fluffy mattress with thick quilt and soft flannel sheets covering her.  She smiled, serene, and opened her eyes slowly, peering up at a set of red eyes, watching her.  

She smiled wider, quirking an eyebrow up.  "That's really creepy Ghost."

Ghost said nothing, licked his chops, and then her face, and hopped away from his nighttime stalking.  She chuckled, sitting up on her elbows, glancing at three faces underneath one of the throw blankets over the bed, all of her little dragons purring contentedly, no doubt thankful she had relocated them completely.  She wiggled her toes, returning feeling to them, and scanned the room, which was empty.  

The snow had eventually stopped, the wind fading away, and now the sun was out, but to her surprise, she must have slept through most of the day.  Bloody cold, she cursed inwardly, for she never got sick.  She had slept most of the last couple of days, interspersed with coughing fits, cranky moments of letting Jon take her temperature and pour soup and tea down her throat, and the occasional "I am not sick, so you can totally fuck me, I promise I won't pass out" debates.  He had refused, tucking her into the big bed in his room, saying that she was his patient now, and one did not take advantage that way.

"You're too honorable for your own good," she bitched, the last time she'd tried to suggest a little nookie.

"Sue me."

"Hmm, I might."  

He simply kissed her nose, told her she was adorable with her pouting, and she fell asleep before she could reply, cursing her body for succumbing to this strange Southern cold during this strange Southern storm.  

It was almost sundown; the light fading overtop the trees cocooning the house on the mountainside.  She blinked at the reflection of the snowy treetops in the huge windows and felt good.  Good enough to get out of bed, she figured, sliding free of the sheets, the huge Night's Watch hoodie falling over her hips to her knees and sleeves over her fingertips.  She shuffled in her thick wool socks—also stolen from Jon—to the bathroom, flicking on the light and taking stock of her reflection.  

Her nose was chapped from blowing into Kleenex, her eyes slightly blood-shot, and her hair was a nest of epic proportions, she wondered if there was a dragon living in it.  She scrubbed her cheek with her palm, shaking her head, and glanced at Ghost, who looked up at her curiously.  "Do you think I'm sexy Ghost?"  She put on a fake pose, thrusting her hip to the side, pretending to look cute in the oversized sweatshirt and nothing else.  

Ghost did not indicate one way or the other.  He just wandered off towards the sunken tub, hoping into it and then put his paws on the other side, tail wagging and gazing out the floor-to-ceiling windows.  She wandered over, sitting on the edge, and followed his gaze, smiling down at Jon, who was moving firewood from the deck into the house.  She scratched Ghost's head.  "Thank you for keeping me company, I'm sure you'd rather be with him."

She ran her fingers as best through her hair as she could, wincing at tangles.  "Ugh."  A shower was necessary.  She shivered; it was still chilly, even with the heat returning, the pipes back to working order.  

Somewhere in the bedroom, her phone dinged.  She left Ghost to his watch, getting off the bathtub edge and went to pick it up from the nightstand, staring at the email notification from Tyrion Lannister.  

Thank you for your message, Lannister Properties is currently closed due to significant weather activity, we will respond in due time. She scoffed, opened up one of the emails that had been sent immediately after and saw that indeed, Tyrion had replied.

Ms. Targaryen, I was sorry to see your negative review of our property.  As you know, significant weather activity is possible, and while we cannot compensate you for any destruction caused by Acts of the Gods, we would like to offer you a 20 percent discount on your next Lannister Property rental.  A Lannister always pays their debts, and we would like to no longer be in debt to you!  Thank you, Tyrion  P.S.  Our insurance investigator will survey the property damage and be in touch regarding your payment options.

Her mouth dropped.  "Fuck you!" she shouted at the email.  She would definitely be handling this stupid little lion herself.  After drafting a very strongly worded email with tons of legal jargon she hoped would have the Lannister quaking in his boots, she dropped her phone, a muscle twitching somewhere in her shoulder.  She rubbed at it, scowling at the dragons, who were watching her from where they now were seated on her pillow.  She shook her head.  "Fucking Lannisters."

At least she had Jon, she figured, and picked up her phone again, sending a quick message to Missandei.  Despite the weather, the plague, and the shitty rental, I'm feeling much better now.

Her phone buzzed almost immediately.  She smirked at her BFF's reply:  Yes, I've heard endless banging can do that to a person.

After saying that she was not endless banging Jon-- they'd had to take a break because of the plague after all-- she put the phone on silent, charged it up, and then padded back into the bathroom, because now she well and truly needed a hot, long, relaxing shower....or...maybe...

Her eyes landed on the tub.  It had been used just to store water those first couple days without power, but a week later....she swished her lips around and decided.  She deserved a soak.  Just like she wanted when she first saw it.  She leaned over and tugged on the taps, letting the hot water pour in, steam instantly rising.  It was rather deep, like a small pond, and she puttered about looking for some candles, finding a few in another bedroom and even some bath salts.  They smelled divine, lavender and eucalyptus, perfect for relaxing and also shaking loose any remaining crap in her nose from the cold.  

She watched the bubbles foam, fluffy and cloudlike, almost resembling the snow that pillowed along the windowsills outside.  The sun had fully disappeared behind the trees, the stars peeking out.  It was rather breathtaking, maybe even something she might have seen if she'd been up at the Wall with Missandei and Grey instead of down in Dorne, when she had planned to just watch sunsets over red sand dunes and mountains.  Go figure, she was getting the North and she didn't even pay for it.

Stripping out of her hoodie and her granny panties— Jon had thankfully not continued to make fun of her for their use while she was sick—she slipped into the tub, hissing at the first touch of the hot water on her skin, and then moaning in delight, her dragonblood positively singing.  Her brothers jokingly referred to her as "the Unburnt" because for whatever reason she did not feel pain with heat.  Barely even flinched when fire flicked her fingertips as she loaded the fireplace with wood, to Jon's shock.  

It was straight out of the Heavens of Valyria, she thought, sinking fully under the foamy bubbles, the lavender soothing her dry skin, the eucalyptus filling her lungs, crisp and healing.  She reached to adjust her knotty hair, piled on her head, and closed her eyes, groaning happily the deeper she sunk into the tub.  The lights off, the candles all around her, it was how she wouldn't mind spending another power outage.

Ghost was not one to leave her out, his head on the edge of the tub, accepting wet scratches now and then on his head.  She chuckled, opening an eye to peer at him.  "If you want in here, you're welcome to it, but I'm not dealing with that wet dog smell later."

He huffed, annoyed.  

The only thing truly missing, she realized, after an undetermined amount of time later, was some music, a glass of wine, and a very attractive, very sexy, very naked Jon Snow.

"Well look at you."

Eyes springing open, she turned her head sideways, spotting Jon leaning against the door frame.  His sweaty curls slicked at his neck and temples, his t-shirt and sweats damp from the snow and exertion of moving all the firewood around.  In his hands, he had a bottle of beer and a glass of wine.  She smirked.  "Which one is for me?"

"Which one do you prefer?"

"Gimme."

He already knew her, handing her the Dornish red, while he sipped at the Northern ale.  He glanced at Ghost, who was scowling up at him.  "What?  I'm not giving you a bath."

"Am I in his tub?"

"Yes, he likes baths."

"Your dog is very weird Jon Snow."

"Don't I know it."  His eyes darkened, the candlelight shooting off the gray irises in sparks, his lip curling over his teeth in a wry smile.  "In fact, I have to say, I'm a little upset with you."

She smirked, flicking some bubbles at him.  "Oh yeah?"

"Aye, you're sharing bathtime with my dog and not me."

Ghost stuck his nose into the bubbles, blowing them up into the air and snatching them with his teeth, until some went up his nose and he sneezed, rubbing his nose into the rug.  She sat up, peering over the edge of the tub, laughing.  "Oh Ghostie!  You alright prumia?"

The Valyrian for 'my heart' had begun slipping easily when it came to the fluffy dog, who whined, rubbed his nose with his paw, and accepted her kisses, even if some of the water dripped from her arms and shoulders when she leaned over to reach him.  She fell back into the tub, once Ghost had finished with her, and wandered off, the door banging shut after him.  She frowned, about to ask, but Jon answered the unspoken question.

"Aye, he closed the door.  He also likes giving people privacy."

As he had kept to himself, hiding off away from them during those couple nights on the floor in front of the fireplace, she had to thank the dog for that.  She smirked up at Jon, who looked a bit annoyed, and was toeing off his socks, the beer now on the edge of the tub.  She sipped he wine, surveying him appreciatively, the black t-shirt falling to the floor.  She purred, recognizing the gleaming lust in his eyes.  "Who knew jealousy was such a powerful motivator for you?"

"Jealous?" he scoffed.  "No way."

"Hmm."  She disagreed.  

“Is there some space left in that bathtub?”  

When she opened her eyes, she found that he was naked, the sweatpants joining the t-shirt and his socks.  She licked her lips, shifting and gestured; there was more than enough room.  She smirked at him, as he stepped in and yelped.  “Careful, it’s hot,” she cooed.  Gathering some bubbles, she piled them in front of her, annoyed that they shielded her favorite part of him from her gaze.  She had an ulterior motive of course, for hiding her body from him, smirking as he scowled back at her, no doubt mad he couldn’t see beyond the lavender scented shield.

He sank back into the tub, his head popping over the side, leaning on the other edge and his feet sliding along her legs, before they stopped on either side of her arse.  She slipped her leg along his, the salts and soaps giving her skin an added slickness.  He narrowed his eyes on hers and she smiled, innocent, as her foot moved over his calf, his thigh, and then pressed between them, her brows arching.  “Hmm,” she murmured.  “Such…hard work out there.”

“Uh-huh.”

“I was alone in bed when I woke up,” she continued.  She sniffed, hoping her voice didn’t have the added thickness to it from her cold.  She was trying to be sexy, scooping up a handful of bubbles and blowing them towards him.  

A little pillow of bubbles landed on his head and he smiled, eyebrow lifting.  “Cute.”

“You do look cute.”  

“I don’t usually like baths.”  He flicked some bubbles away from her chest, scowling again at them.  “They’re blocking the view.”

“Well that’s too bad.”

“It really is.  Makes things…inaccessible too.”

“And what are those?”  Her foot was still sliding along his cock, her toes tickling along the hard, thick length, and suddenly it fell to the side, as he lunged towards her, a wolf with its prey.  Water splashed around them, bubbles everywhere, and before she knew it, his arms were around her thighs, hoisting her up to the edge of the tub, and splaying her legs out.  A wicked grin shot up at her, his sinful lips twisted, and eyes black.  She cried out, before she even knew what was happening, and he tugged her forward, arms wrapped around her legs, which fell over his shoulders, and he dove down.

The first thing she felt was his tongue, spearing straight into her.  “Fuck!” she screamed, clenching around his head and grabbing at his wet curls.  She moaned, long and low, her head falling backwards, smacking against the foggy windowpane.  She kept a hand on his hair and her other fell back as well, grappling for something to hold, and eventually found the edge of the window itself, holding tight to the wooden frame.  

He feasted like a man starved, his tongue slipping in and around her folds, which had already been damp at the sight of him and had grown increasingly slick with her need for him as he teased her and stripped in front of her. She panted, Valyrian babbling with “Jon” and “fuck” and “yes”, everything he did in response to her body’s craving.  His tongue was pure magic, lips suckling here and there, and his hand breaking free of her leg to slip between them, a single thick finger sliding inside, crooking at just the right angle to find the spot inside of her that had her whining, high-pitched, desperate to come.  

Flicking his tongue around her entrance, he gathered up her wetness with it and carried it to her clit, nibbling and sucking the little bud, alternating between giving it the attention she wanted and sliding it back into her, a second finger now joining the first.  He let go of her other thigh, since she was holding herself up and his other hand pressed above her pubic bone, at the exact moment his fingers pressed to that magic spot, the pressure too much for her to bear.  

She was coming, the flame already flickering, and stoked higher and higher.  She gripped his hair so tight; she almost tore it clean from his skull, and when her eyes pried open long enough to meet his, that devious, devilish look that told her he knew exactly what he was doing, she couldn’t take it.  It shattered her, the flame exploding into thousands of tiny ones, engulfing her.  

Hand falling off the window, smearing finger tracks down the condensation, she thrust her hips aimlessly into his mouth, her body clenching, spasming around him.  He carried on, careful of her sensitivity, and kept moving, fingers slipping along, this thumb tapping and circling, and tongue angling through, drinking up her sweetness.  She came again, her body quivering, exhausted.  

It all felt so good, so fuzzy, and she slipped back into the tub, water splashing out over the edges, her head almost falling straight under the top of the still steaming water.  He caught her, turning so she was draped over his chest, the bubbles fading away around them.  His cock was still hard, pressed between his abdomen and hers, and she lifted her hips enough to trap him there, teasing her and him both.  “Soon,” she sighed, eyes closed.  “Give me a minute.”

He brushed his lips over top her hairline, damp now with sweat.  “Feeling better?”

Rising over him as best she could, at the awkward angle, bathwater and bubbles still coating her skin, she reached her hand around his head to pull his mouth to hers, groaning at the taste of herself she still felt on his tongue.  “Oh Jon, you have no idea how good I feel now.”

“Glad to hear it.”  

[homielander]

For your "send me a fandom and I'll tell you" post : Game of Thrones

the first character i ever fell in love with: pretty sure it was arya! i loved her destroying bran in archery right away. what an icon

a character that i used to love/like, but now do not: i really don’t think there have been any characters i stopped liking (more the other way around). i have to say that the poor writing of the show post-season 4 really made me annoyed by some of my absolute favourites but i don’t consider those versions of them to be canon.

a ship that i used to love/like, but now do not: i really loved jon and ygritte initially but as time went on it was pretty clear that a huge part of their romance was jon trying to survive since he’d been captured by the wildlings. i think he had genuine affection for her but i don’t think he would have broken his night’s watch vows and slept with her if she hadn’t insisted that he prove that he wasn’t a crow anymore. it all left an ick taste in my mouth and i certainly don’t ship them.

my ultimate favourite character™: TYRION LANNISTER! and jaime this is so difficult i want to keep listing favourites but truth be told almost no one comes close to tyrion in the first four seasons. if we’re talking asoiaf -- i’m reading the books now (halfway through acok) and his character is a lot darker than his show counterpart. i still love reading him, but i think my asoiaf fav has got to be catelyn. her povs are just incredible and so deeply sad.

prettiest character: they’re all so beautiful but daenerys

my most hated character: melisandre. no explanation necessary i despised her ‘lord of light’ bullshit from the moment she was on screen and it only got worse from there

my OTP: is there any answer other than brienne and jaime

my NOTP: jaime and cersei (or really any incestuous pairing). jon and sansa (they count as incestuous, they were literally raised as siblings). cersei and bobby b (love them both individually but god he needs to stay away from her). dany and drogo (not a romance in the books either). we don’t know much about them but rhaegar and lyanna (i just feel like this storyline goes completely against what we’ve been told lyanna was). and there are a lot of others (joffrey x anyone, ramsay x anyone, littlefinger x anyone, etc.)

favourite episode: what the shit there are so many high quality episodes :( however i seriously love the penultimate episodes of the first four seasons. and 6.10 gets a mention here because i think the sept of baelor sequence was outstanding

saddest death: not going to count the season 8 stuff here. but if i did it would be the death of jaime’s character development (”to be honest i never really cared much for them. innocent or otherwise” come here so i can slap you). either cat and robb, or my girl margaery :(

favourite season: season 3 was the best television i’ve ever watched in my life

least favourite season: seasons 7 and 8. yikes!!!!!!

character that everyone else in the fandom loves, but i hate: genuinely have never been more confused in my life than when i became active in the fandom and realized that people liked stannis. loras was so right when he said that stannis has no personality. renly you should have been king i miss you &lt;3

my 'you're a piece of trash, but you're still a fav' fav: nobody exemplifies this better than the lannister twins

my 'you're a beautiful cinnamon roll who deserves better than this' fav: literally any and all of the starks. also brienne of tarth &lt;3

my 'this ship is wrong, nasty, and makes me want to cleanse my soul, but i still love it' ship: i really like tyrion and sansa tbh? the age gap is definitely questionable but they just have so much respect for each other that it’s hard not to root for them

my 'they're kind of cute, and i lowkey ship them, but i'm not too invested' ship: ned and cat. gendry and arya. sam and gilly. loras and renly. they were all babies

[jackoshadows]

what i don’t understand is sansa stans who insist that she learnt from the best (cersei ans littlefinger) and so she’ll be an amazing ruler and player. first of all, when did she learn about the game from cersei? she was a hostage in kings landing, she wasn’t sitting in on small council meetings or anything and cersei definitely wasn’t telling her about all the moves she was making. the only time cersei really gives her ‘advice’ is during blackwater when she says that ‘tears/sex is a woman’s weapon’. regardless, cersei isn’t someone you want to be taught from, she makes terrible decision after terrible decision in affc. (since we’re on this topic, dany is the younger and more beautiful queen who foils cersei).

as for littlefinger, he’s definitely not a leader or ruler. he subtly manipulates things here and there and gets away with a lot of it because he stays under the radar. he’s not someone who inspires devotion for sure. nothing about the vale arc in affc puts sansa in an actual leadership position.

I agree it's best that no one learns how to be a ruler from Cersei Lannister, considering how much she messes up in AFfC.

And yes, it’s my opinion that Sansa's arc is leading towards outwitting Littlefinger and understanding how to play the game rather than ruling. And with two books left to go, she still has a lot of learning to do and being able to process the information available to her, analyze it and connect the dots and use the data to her advantage.

I just finished my ADwD and TWoW sample chapter re-reads so a rather long essay under the cut.

Sansa did acknowledge early on that unlike Cersei, if she were to become queen, she would prioritize getting the people's love over their fear - like the Tyrells did. But unlike the majority opinion of fandom, I think that this points to Sansa giving more importance to PR than to actual ruling. That it was better to be a loved monarch than a feared one.

It’s funny that Sansa stans often point the finger at Dany as being narcissistic, entitled and arrogant, when the few comments that Sansa makes about being queen revolve around her.

“Go ahead, call me all the names you want,” Sansa said airily. “You won’t dare when I’m married to Joffrey. You’ll have to bow to me and call me Your Grace. ” - Sansa, AGoT

“ If I am ever a queen, I'll make them love me.”  - Sansa, ACoK

Compare her quotes to those of current leaders/rulers in the books:

A good lord protects his people, he reminded himself. - Bran, ACoK

“Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can’t protect themselves?“ - Daenerys, ASoS

“And I know that a king protects his people, or he is no king at all.” Davos, ASoS

I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne."  - Stannis, ASoS

“I am the shield that guards the realms of men. Those are the words. So tell me, my lord— what are these wildlings, if not men?”  - Jon Snow, ADwD

The other leaders in the quotes are putting the people first, prioritizing the people’s needs first no matter how much it affects the rulers themselves. Jon’s decision to let the Wildlings through the wall is necessary, but highly unpopular among his men. And ruling is more than just being beloved by the people -

"Allow me to give my lord one last piece of counsel,” the old man had said, “the same council that I one gave my brother when we parted for the last time. He was three-and-thirty when the Great Council chose him to mount the Iron Throne. A man grown with sons of his own, yet in some ways still a boy. Egg had an innocence to him, a sweetness we all loved. Kill the boy within you, I told him the day I took the ship for the Wall. It takes a man to rule. An Aegon, not an Egg. Kill boy and let the man be born.” The old man felt Jon’s face. “You are half the age that Egg was, and your own burden is a crueler one, I fear. You will have little joy of your command, but I think you have the strength in you to do the things that must be done. Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born.” - Jon Snow, ADwD

This is the hard part of ruling be it in the middle ages or now. It’s not enough to be a good man to be an effective ruler. It’s complicated and it’s hard.  How do I resolve this thing? Do I do the moral thing? But what about  the political consequences of the moral thing? Do I do the pragmatic, cynical thing and kind of screw the people who are screwed by it? I mean, it is HARD. - GRRM

In this context, Sansa’s quote about being queen comes off as naive, ignorant, fairy taleish, like the queens in her stories - where everyone loves the queens and that’s all that’s necessary to be one.

It’s easy for Sansa stans to nitpick and criticize each and every one of Dany’s decisions and then praise future best queen Sansa - who has done absolutely nothing as a leader and has instead thus far served as an uncritical narrator to events around her. We don’t know what kind of leader Sansa would be because she has never been put in those situations or even shown an aptitude for strategic thinking.

Let me use an example I came across while recently re-reading ADwD and TWoW sample chapters. TWoW spoilers - if you don’t want to be spoiled on TWoW, please read no further.

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In ADwD, Jon is confronted with food shortage if they let the Wildlings through the wall:

“If we had sufficient coin, we could buy food from the south and bring it in by ship,” the Lord Steward said. We could, thought Jon, if we had the gold, and someone willing to sell us food. Both of those were lacking. Our best hope may be the Eyrie. The Vale of Arryn was famously fertile and had gone untouched during the fighting. - Jon Snow, ADwD

I have already written extensively on Jon’s political know-how of the North and using it in his strategizing and planning of Stannis’ campaign. But here we see that his knowledge extends to the south, where, knowing that the Vale stayed neutral during the WOT5K and it’s geography of being fertile, he sees it as a possible source to buy food for the Wall.

Now let’s go to the Vale in book 6, TWoW, Alayne’s sample chapter. After being called a bastard by Harry the Heir, a hurt Sansa goes looking for Littlefinger and chances upon a scheme of price gouging:

Near the bottom, she heard Lord  Grafton’s booming voice, and followed.

“The  merchants are clamoring to buy and the lords are clamoring to sell,”  the Gulltowner was saying when she found them. Though not a tall man, Grafton was wide, with thick arms and shoulders.  His hair was a dirty blond mop.  “How am I to stop that, my lord?”

“Post guardsmen on the docks. If need be, seize the ships. How does not matter, so long as no food leaves the Vale”

“These prices, though,” protested fat Lord Belmore,” 

“These prices are more than fair. Wait. If need be, buy the food yourself and keep it stored. Winter is coming. Prices must go higher.”

“Perhaps,”  said Belmore, doubtfully. “Bronze Yohn will not wait, ” Grafton complained. “He need not ship through Gulltown, he has his own ports. Whilst we are hoarding our harvest, Royce and the other Lords Declarant will turn theirs into silver, you may be sure of that.”

“Let  us hope so,”  said Petyr. “When their granaries are empty, they will  need every scrap of that silver to buy sustenance from us. And now if  you will excuse me, my lord, it would seem my daughter has need of me.”

“Lady Alayne,” Lord Grafton said. “You look bright-eyed this morning.” ” You  are kind to say so, my lord. Father, I am sorry to disturb you, but I  thought you would want to know that the Waynwoods have arrived.”

We are now in book 6 territory, this would be the point where a future queen/leader Sansa reflects on what she just saw - Littlefinger is hoarding grain and letting Royce and others sell theirs so that he can later increase the prices for demand from a starving populace and have the rest of the Vale Lords be dependent on him and with winter coming, there is currently much demand for the grain.

This would be where, if GRRM is writing for the future leader of the North, Sansa would wonder what is happening in the North with respect to the food situation since she just heard that merchants are clamoring for grain and winter is coming. Or she would think on LF’s scheme - is it a good plan or a bad plan? Does she think that Yohn Royce is right to sell his grain? What is her view on hoarding all the food for price gouging while people possibly starve elsewhere? What does she think of starving the populace for profit? Does she approve? Or does she think it’s ethically wrong?

We get no answers to these questions to give us a hint of what kind of ruler future best queen Sansa will be. It’s a blank slate because while Sansa acts as a narrator here and describes one of LF’s little schemes, she herself as no opinion on it. Instead Sansa’s immediate concern when speaking to Littlefinger is that Harry the Heir called her a bastard in front of everyone. Meanwhile Dany in ADwD:

Skahaz had been named Warden of the River, with charge of all the ferries, dredges, and irrigation ditches along the Skahazadhan for fifty leagues, but the Shavepate had refused that ancient and honorable office, as Hizdahr called it, preferring to retire to the modest pyramid of Kandaq.

Mounted men were of more use in open fields and hills than in the narrow streets and alleys of the city. Beyond Meereen's walls of many-colored brick, Dany's rule was tenuous at best. Thousands of slaves still toiled on vast estates in the hills, growing wheat and olives, herding sheep and goats, and mining salt and copper. Meereen's storehouses held ample supplies of grain, oil, olives, dried fruit, and salted meat, but the stores were dwindling. So Dany had dispatched her tiny khalasar to subdue the hinterlands, under the command of her three bloodriders, whilst Brown Ben Plumm took his Second Sons south to guard against Yunkish incursions.

The most crucial task of all she had entrusted to Daario Naharis, glib-tongued Daario with his gold tooth and trident beard, smiling his wicked smile through purple whiskers. Beyond the eastern hills was a range of rounded sandstone mountains, the Khyzai Pass, and Lhazar. If Daario could convince the Lhazarene to reopen the overland trade routes, grains could be brought down the river or over the hills at need …

The sea provides all the salt that Qarth requires, but I would gladly take as many olives as you cared to sell me. Olive oil as well."

"I have none to offer. The slavers burned the trees." Olives had been grown along the shores of Slaver's Bay for centuries; but the Meereenese had put their ancient groves to the torch as Dany's host advanced on them, leaving her to cross a blackened wasteland. "We are replanting, but it takes seven years before an olive tree begins to bear, and thirty years before it can truly be called productive. What of copper?"

Sansa does not come anywhere close to Dany and Jon in terms of leadership and that she’s so often pushed as this future queen in fandom, including by bnfs and so called asoiaf experts, is baffling, frustrating and hilarious.

What, if any, attributes does Sansa have to even be a peacetime ruler? After the war means rebuilding from scratch, making deals, hard bargaining, strategizing, using political tools, rebuilding the economy for war torn lands, get in the food, grow the food - precisely the kind of thing Dany is doing in Meereen. Or Jon thinking of building green houses in the Gift to grow food.

But Sansa building a snow model of Winterfell means that she’s the best qualified peace time ruler? Reddit dudebros and so called tumblr feminists united in wanting female characters who wield soft power and uphold the patriarchy as future rulers.

Even when it comes to personal growth, while Sansa has come a long way from her AGoT days, she still has some catching up to do with her peers. After getting hold of LF, Sansa complains that Harry is a horrible person for calling her a bastard.

Come,” Petyr said, “walk with me.” He took her by the arm and led her deeper into the vaults, past an empty dungeon. “And how was your first meeting with Harry the Heir?”

“He’s horrible.”

“The world is full of horrors, sweet. By now you ought to know that. You’ve seen enough of them.”

“Yes,” she said, “but why must he be so cruel? He called me your bastard. Right in the yard, in front of everyone.”

Now, personally, this is the point where I would like some introspection from Sansa. Remember when Sansa called out Jon as a jealous bastard in front of her friends in AGoT and Arya defended him?

Sansa sighed as she stitched.  “Poor Jon,” she said.  “He gets jealous because he's a bastard.”

“He’s our brother,” Arya said, much too loudly. Her voice cut through the afternoon quiet of the tower room.

“Our half brother,” Sansa corrected, soft and precise. - Arya, AGoT

Considering the way Sansa ignored Joffrey’s attack on Arya, it’s a good bet that if Harry the Heir had called out Jon Snow as a bastard in front of everyone in AGoT, Sansa would not have an issue with it. Now that she is being insulted as one, she gets to experience the hurt that Jon felt everyday growing up in Winterfell as a real bastard.

But even here, she refuses to scrutinize the situation more than simply getting angry at being called a bastard. Sansa is often held up as this compassionate, kindest person, ‘beacon of hope for the future’, a queen who cares for the masses etc. But where is her questioning why the classist prejudice against bastards is in itself wrong?

She is angry that she is being called a bastard, she is not angry that bastards are treated as less than. She doesn’t question the societal prejudice against bastards, only angry that she has to pretend to be one and be insulted as one. She doesn’t spare a second reflecting on her bastard brother Jon Snow or question her low opinion of bastards:

Sansa could never understand how two sisters, born only two years apart, could be so different. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon’s mother had been common, or so people whispered. Once, when she was littler, Sansa had even asked Mother if perhaps there hadn’t been some mistake. - Sansa, AGoT

And that’s the difference I see between Sansa and characters like Dany, Arya, Jon, Brienne and even with Tyrion and Penny. While GRRM interrogates Westerosi society prejudices, feudalism, classism, sexism, slavery, ableism, bigotry, the effects of war on the small folk etc with these other characters, Sansa rarely reflects on these issues. That’s why it makes no sense when epithets like ‘embodiment of hope for the future’ is used to describe the character. Hope for whom? The small folk? The patriarchy? The feudal lords?

Sansa being nice to people like the stuttering Ser Wallace is held up as her being the kindest ever. But Jon is nice to Shireen, Arya is kind to Weasel, Jaime is kind to Tyrion. Why is kindness and compassion only highlighted for Sansa, like some unique feature of hers when many characters, even the villains, exhibit kindness?

This is Jon Snow in ADwD

“I see what you are, Snow. Half a wolf and half a wildling, baseborn get of a traitor and a whore. You would deliver a highborn maid to the bed of some stinking savage. Did you sample her yourself first?” He laughed. “If you mean to kill me, do it and be damned for a kinslayer. Stark and Karstark are one blood.”

“My name is Snow.”

“Bastard.”

“Guilty. Of that, at least.”  - Jon Snow, ADwD

This is Sansa Stark in TWoW:

Ser Harrold looked down at her coldly. “Why should it please me to be escorted anywhere by Littlefinger’s bastard?”  

“Yes,” she said, “but why must he be so cruel? He called me your bastard. Right in the yard, in front of everyone.”  - Alayne, TWoW

Sansa in TWoW is as hurt by the bastard moniker as Jon Snow was in AGoT when addressed as such by Tyrion. She’s emotionally where Jon Snow was in AGoT, while Jon has matured enough to not care for such insults anymore. And this is book 6! I guess it makes sense considering Jon is 16 -17 and Sansa would be 13 - 14 years old, making her younger than him in AGoT. But this is why the whole ‘Jon should take Sansa’s advice to rule because she’s the smartest ever!’ trash the show pushed to hype up Sansa is complete nonsense.

I don’t know how many chapters GRRM will be devoting to Sansa in the Vale in TWoW, but there’s still a lot of growth and character development pending for book Sansa. As I have always said, Sansa has a lot of information but she rarely if ever introspects on what she has heard and seen. She knows that LF last had Jeyne Poole but at one point wonders where Jeyne Poole is... Just ask LF dammit! She knows that Lysa had Jon Arryn poisoned on LF’s say so and knows that SweetRobin is being dosed with dangerous levels of Sweetsleep and that LF is banking on his death and yet thinks that SweetRobin will be okay. She needs to start putting two and two together to come up with four and I suspect that in itself will take up the whole of TWoW.

So will Sansa become any kind of queen or ruler? No. If she survives the books, I can see her being Lady of the Vale and be moving the chess pieces around. I can see her gaining agency and maybe even be the real power in the Vale aka Littefinger. Just like Jon, Arya, Bran and Dany I think Sansa will be a darker character in TWoW. The game of thrones cannot be played honorably and she will need to get her hands dirty to outwit LF and take him down at his own game.

The point where Sansa simply stops narrating what she sees and actually starts analyzing what she sees in her POV chapters is when the student will become the master and I am excited to see that happening.

[whateverthedragonswant]

More season 1 parallel slaps for me:

We all already know about the obvious parallels between Ned/Cat and Jonsa, the callbacks, the visual parallels, all of it. But holy crap I had no idea just how closely they circled back to season 1 for these two relationships. And here is how I make a very long and wavy circle back to how the story of Jon and Sansa was definitely leading up to something that they chose not to do anything with in the end (meaning going all the way, instead of keeping it open like they did):

Scene 1): The Bedroom Scene

“I’m a Northman. I belong here with you, not down South in that rat’s nest they call a capitol.” 

“I won’t let him take you.” 

“A king takes what he wants, that’s why he’s king.” 

“I’ll say ‘listen, fat man, you are not taking my husband anywhere. He belongs to me now.’”

7x02 - Jon: “The North is my home and I will never stop fighting for it.”

7x07 - Jon: “How many people live here?” Tyrion: “A million, give or take.” Jon: “That’s more people than the entire North, crammed into that. Why would anyone want to live that way?”

8x04 - Jon: “It’s where he belongs, too. A direwolf has no place in the South. Will you take him with you? He’ll be happier up there.” Tormund: “So would you.” Jon: “I wish I was going with you.”

8x04 - Sansa: “I don’t want Jon to go down there. The men of my family don’t do well in the Capitol.” 

Robert is paralleled with Dany not only in taking Ned/Jon away from the North, but also in their arrival scenes in 1x01 & 8x01, right down to the music (until the dragons arrive)

Scene 2) The Bedroom Scene Part 2

Luwin: “If this news is true, and the Lannisters conspire against the throne, who but you can protect the King?” 

Cat: “They murdered the last Hand. Now you want Ned to take the job.” 

Luwin: “You swore the King an oath, my Lord.” 

Cat: “He owes him nothing. Your father and brother rode South once on a King’s demand.” 

Luwin: “A different time. A different king.”

7x02 - Sansa: “You’re not suggesting Jon meet with her?” Davos: “No. Too dangerous.” Jon: “But?” Davos: “Well, if the Army Of the Dead makes it past the wall, do we have enough men to fight them?”

7x02 - Sansa: “Have you forgotten what happened to our grandfather? The Mad King invited him to King’s Landing and roasted him alive.” Jon: “I know that.” Sansa: “She is here to reclaim the Iron Throne and the Seven Kingdoms. The North is one of those Seven Kingdoms. This isn’t an invitation, it’s a trap.”

a scroll is received, both containing words that prompt Ned and Jon to eventually go South

Ned doubts Lysa would send dangerous information like that in the scroll, that she’s a grieving widow making claims, but Cat convinces him that Lysa would have never risked herself or Robyn if it weren’t true; Sansa thinks at first that the scroll is a trap but Jon has her read the last line which convinces him that it’ really Tyrion who sent it

Cat does not want Ned to go while Luwin politely disagrees; Sansa does not want Jon to go while Davos politely suggests otherwise due to the impending battle

The scroll is from Lysa, Cat’s sister, who Cat knows; the scroll is from Tyrion who Jon and Sansa both know but like Jon says, Sansa knows “him better than any of us”

The scroll is about the role the Lannisters have supposedly played in Jon Arryn’s death and how Robert is now in danger; the scroll is an invitation to join the fight against Cersei who will make “the seven kingdoms bleed” if she stays on the throne

both scrolls are a sham: Lysa falsely accused the Lannisters of murdering Jon Arryn in order to set Littlefinger’s plans into motion to start the conflict between the Starks and the Lannisters; Tyrion falsely invited Jon to join an alliance to end Cersei’s tyranny when really it was a summoning and for him to bend the knee/submit to Dany

there is fire in both scenes - Cat burns the scroll after reading it in the fireplace; the fire is in between Jon and Sansa & Davos, indicating fire is already coming between them in this scene even though Davos hasn’t suggested the dragons at this particular moment above

Sansa is in the same position as Cat, Davos as Luwin, with Jon/Ned at the forefront, the one making the decision to heed the words received or not

when Jon first meets Dany in 7x03, she reminds him of the vow his ancestor Torrhen Stark made to Aegon Targaryen which leads to her explaining that she is not her father 

Further links:

Scene 1 & 2 up above take place in the bedroom, the Lord’s Chamber; 6x10 - Jon: “I’m having the Lord’s chamber prepared for you.” Sansa: “Mother and Father’s room? You should take it.” Jon: “I’m not a Stark.” Sansa: “You are to me.” Jon: “You’re the Lady of Winterfell. You deserve it. We’re standing here because of you. The battle was lost until the Knights Of the Vale rode in. They came because of you.” - Sansa attempted to reach out to her uncle Brynden to help take Winterfell back; Cat was able to ask her father’s bannermen help in arresting Tyrion

In the episode above (1x01), two scenes take place at the feast: 1) Cersei: “I hear we might share a grandchild someday.” Cat: “I hear the same.” - after Sansa walks away; 2) Jaime: “I hear we might be neighbors soon. I hope it’s true.” Ned: “Yes, the King has honored me with his offer.” -- Cersei & Jaime are later confirmed to be lovers and we find out later in the season that all of Cersei’s children are Jaime’s. This showed that Jaime and Cersei were being paralleled to Ned/Cat, in dynamics. But Jaime is also a mirror for Jon, and Cersei for Sansa. Jon and Sansa who have been echoing Ned and Cat in the later seasons

1x02 - Cat: “Seventeen years ago, you rode off with Robert Baratheon. You came back a year later with another woman’s son. And now you’re leaving again.” Ned: “I have no choice.” Cat: “That’s what men always say when honor calls. That’s what you tell your families, tell yourselves. You do have a choice and you’ve made it.”; 8x04 - Tyrion: “You seem determined to dislike her. A good relationship between the Iron Throne and the North has been the core of every peaceful prosperous reign we’ve ever known.” Sansa: “Jon will be Warden of the North so a good relationship seems likely.” (not exactly the same but we also didn’t get to see any form of a goodbye scene between Jon and Sansa like we did with Ned and Cat - Sansa doesn’t like the choice Jon has made but accepts he’s made it) 

Jon had a similar relationship to Arya that Ned had with Lyanna

S1: Ned decides to take Hand position - Ned never comes back, as Warden Of the North or the Hand; S7: Jon decides to accept Tyrion’s invitation and meet with Dany - Jon comes back but with Dany in control, doesn’t come back as King In the North - after he kills Dany, he never comes back (that we know of)

They really were going for it. It wasn’t just the obvious parallels and framing, they really had Jon in the same position as Ned, forced to make a decision to protect the one he loves, to keep a promise, and do something that would deem him dishonorable in society’s eyes. And they really had Sansa as Cat, the woman who he doesn’t have a great beginning with, who ends up alongside him due to fate intervening harshly, and who he truly cares for and loves by the end of his story. 

Cat: “Love didn’t just happen to us. We built it slowly over the years, stone by stone.” “It’s not as exciting as secret passion in the woods but it is stronger. It lasts longer.”

It’s just...wow.