#the jedi did it wrong in the prequel trilogy

[starbeltconstellation]

Helloooo, to all SW fans! 👋

Sooo, I have decided to make this like a… monthly? 🤔🤔 Reblog, to search for other like minded pro Jedi individuals like myself in the SW fandom, so I can find more of my little fandom corner.

So! 😁 I humbly ask those that are Pro Jedi, and do NOT blame them for their own genocide (🤦‍♀️🤢🥶) to reblog or like this post, so I can follow more SW fandom blogs.

I also would follow fans who are Anakin critical/anti Anakin. Although I’m more of a pro Jedi fan who still has sympathy and SO much love for Anakin’s character (🥲💔❤️), while still realizing the fault lies with himself, I also enjoy reading a lot of critical analysis on his character too.

But any Anakin fans who love him to death like me and aren’t afraid to hear criticism are welcome to like this post too! ❤️

The same goes with pro Jedi/pro clone blogs. The Jedi are my ultimate favorite blorbos, but the clones are also so very dear to me, and I love to read headcanons about them. 💕

Hopefully this isn’t a weird post. Lol. 😅🫣😂 I just thought this was a good way to expand outward into more fandom territory.

Thanks! 😜💕❤️✨

[mearchy]

I actually think I put my finger on the thing that most bothers me about the perpetual pro vs anti Jedi discourse, which is that everybody argues for their interpretation of the Jedi as though the Jedi were a monolith. As though there were not 10,000+ of them spread across multiple temples, from many different homeworlds, with unique paths and individual connections to the Force. It doesn’t seem right to me to assert absolutes about what the Jedi code Actually Meant and whether it was too dogmatic or applied correctly by the Order or whatever when I think we can see in canon that you would get different answers about its meaning and application from the Jedi themselves, even the ones that inhabited and learned in the same temple. I feel like that’s the point of a lot of what we get shown in the prequels and TCW.

[jackdaw-kraai]

I think there’s something rather strange going on with all the folks who insist that the Jedi Order in the PT was right and didn’t forbid love and Anakin should just have followed their teachings when the whole point of the prequels is that they are prequels. They come before the OT, and the OT proves the Jedi wrong. They literally do not make sense if they don’t do that.

Luke, in the original trilogy, gains his ultimate triumph, his ultimate victory, because he loved in defiance of the teachings of the old Order. He quite literally had the ghosts of the past telling him, explicitly and without ambiguity, that he has to put his love for his father aside and kill him, as is the duty of a Jedi. Luke has the weight of millennia of teachings weighing down on his shoulders, telling him they knew and know better than a young, inexperienced man barely out of his teenager years. That he should follow their teachings or be destroyed. That is an immense weight to carry, and many people would and explicitly have given in to it in-universe. What are your feelings and ideals in the face of such immense legacy, after all?

But Luke doesn’t give in.

He doesn’t bend.

He says “I may be young, and I may be new, but I believe to my heart and soul that love matters more than this legacy. Matters more than your teachings.” And he says this to the ghosts of his mentors. That is such a powerful moment and one I can’t believe George Lucas didn’t create deliberately for even a second. This young man, being told he has to kill or die trying for a system that is dead or dying itself, that couldn’t survive itself, and refusing to do so. He is the living refusing to continue the violence of a dead generation. He is the young man refusing the draft into a war the old generation started, saying “peace and love matters more than you being right.” He is the embodiment of breaking the cycle.

And the movies vindicate him.

The main villain vindicates him with his last dying breath.

Darth Vader, dying, says “You were right.” and admits he and his were wrong. The main antagonist, Luke’s nemesis, in the face of his son’s immense, defiant love, gives way and does the impossible: he comes back to the light and dies a Jedi. The very thing the old Order says was impossible.

They were wrong. They have to be. The narrative demands it, the movies don’t make sense without it.

The solution was never to continue the cycle of the old Order, or Luke would have failed there, would have failed when he said “I am a Jedi, like my father before me.” And claimed that defiant, deviant, condemned definition of being a Jedi over the one presented to him by the Grandmaster of the old Order. If the old Order was right, Luke would have to be wrong. Be wrong about love, be wrong about laying down the sword, be wrong about refusing to fight. He would have to be wrong.

But the old Order is dead, explicitly killed by a monster, in some part, of their own making. It’s members only existing as bones in the ground or ghosts speaking from beyond the grave. They did not deserve it, it should not have been inflicted on them, but the narrative is clear on this: “The old way is dead, and was dying for a long time before that. Long live the new.”

Luke is that new. Luke is the breaking of the cycle, the reforging of swords into ploughs, the extended hand. Luke says “I don’t care how much I was hurt, I refuse to hurt you back, and you don’t need to hurt me either.”

“We can end this together and choose love instead.”

And Darth Vader, killer of the Jedi, End of the Order, lays down his arms as well, and reaches back as Anakin, saying “You were right.”

It wasn’t Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace, Qui-Gon, or even Ahsoka who achieved the ultimate victory in the end, following the tenants of the old Order. It was Luke. Young, inexperienced Luke, who saw that the age of legacy handed to him was only history, that the sword handed to him as his life was only a tool, and that the decrees of the dead were only advice. And he took it all, said “thank you for your experience, but I’ve got it from here,” and laid it all down to instead extend an open hand towards his enemy.

And his victory, his ultimate triumph, his vindication, was that he was proven right when his enemy reached back and became just another person. Just another person, just like him.

The Jedi did not deserve what happened to them, and they did not deserve to die. But the story is clear on this: the Jedi of old were wrong, and the Jedi of new, the Last Jedi, was right. No sword or death will ever end the rule of the sword or end the bloodshed. But love?

Love can ignite the stars.

[mirrorofliterature]

I genuinely don't understand how anyone can look at the Council Scene in the Phantom Menace and think the Council were in the right

Jedi are supposed to be compassionate, right?

so where is there compassion for a recently freed former slave child, who has been separated from everything he ever knew, including his mum who is still in great danger as a slave, after risking his life for people he just met?

like. the council scene is supposed to show how set in their ways the jedi council has become in the prequel trilogy.

they look at a scared child and reject him for being scared because they judge him by the standards of a child raised in the temple.

it is callous, unempathetic and apathetic.

do you know how tiny and vulnerable nine year olds are?

they rejected a nine year old for factors completely out of his control and shunted him off to a war zone because he didn't have enough trauma already.

this is what I mean when I say the PT Jedi order is flawed

I want the Jedi Order to do better! I wish they had learned from their mistakes and treated Anakin with compassion instead of callousness, but canonically that's what they did.

now, if the 'jedi never did anything wrong' can excuse the council's treatment of a child in phantom menace, they are viewing the movie through a heavily biased lens and are blatantly ignoring blaring red flags

a jedi should be compassionate.

they were inflexible and rigid, adhered to conventions that where nowhere in their actual code.

not one of them asked why anakin was scared, or why he came to coruscant, or why his parents had given him up, or even bothered to learn about the huge sacrifice he made.

anakin is at his best self in PM.

it's a tragedy for a reason.

[david-talks-sw]

I was watching the Clone Wars featurette about the Holocron arc and Dave talks about the scene where Bane threatens to kill Ahsoka. He says "we're seeing a dark side of Anakin, and in a very clear illustration of why Jedi should not have attachments, we see that attachment get exploited." So clearly at what point in time he understood the whole attachment thing. What happened?

Unlike Karen Traviss, I think Dave Filoni actually understands what "attachment" means, in Star Wars. Apparently, it's the Star Wars theme that he and George spoke the most about.

"The biggest area of the Force and the Jedi [that] George and I have gotten into discussing the whole deal with attachments. And, arguably, that's what Anakin whole life is hinged on, is this - like you've mentioned - he has a lot of attachments to Artoo and how how right or wrong is that? Is it that the Jedi have made themselves dispassionate, that they are actually deceived by the Sith and they fall apart?" - Dave Filoni, Rebel Force Radio, 2012

What I've noticed is that, while understanding the meaning of attachment... Filoni doesn't seem to agree that the Prequel Jedi embody the concept of compassion.

He has acknowledged sometimes that "attachment is bad" is the theme of Anakin's story (but question if it's really so bad, unlike Lucas who says it's understandable but bad) but disagrees that the Prequel Jedi represent the obvious counter-theme, "compassion is good."

If you read what Filoni says, he argues that:

The Jedi have lost their way, taken the "rid yourself of attachment" rule and pushed it to an extreme where they've rid themselves of any empathy and thus compassion. They've focused so much on being selfless that they've forgotten how to love.

All except for Qui-Gon, who is the only one that truly knows how to love without getting attached, to love selflessly.

And personally, that strikes me as a coping headcanon, a way of reconciling the theme and feeling the Jedi like Mace, Ki-Adi, even Yoda and Obi-Wan are stoic, unlikable and too different from Luke.

Sure, they're not perfect, but nowhere in the films is the Jedi's stance on love framed as "bad" by the narrative. The narrative agrees with their philosophy, and George echoes it.

In fact, among 772 collected George Lucas quotes, I've never seen him state that theme while adding the asterisk that "of course, the Jedi of the Prequels have forgotten how to be compassionate, except for Qui-Gon who was the true Jedi."

And of course he doesn't do that. Because doesn't that muddy the waters so much?

Supposing Qui-Gon truly is the only character that embodies the concept of "compassion"... doesn't killing him off in the first film confuse a targeted audience of children?

Bearing in mind that the Prequels are about how greed makes people and institutions become the very thing they swear to destroy, and Star Wars as a whole is about being selfless instead of selfish:

In one corner, we have Anakin and the Senate showing what you're not supposed to do.

In the other, you got Padmé, Shmi and the Jedi, showing you what you should do instead.

Simple. I can see a kid getting this (and I did). But according to Filoni, that second point is incorrect. Instead, it's:

In the other, we have... Qui-Gon, who is one of the first film's four protagonists that dies at the end, without openly stating anything about the trilogy's theme. Theoretically, there's the Jedi who state and address the theme, but they don't themselves embody it so they don't count. So really... in this corner we have nobody (?)

That seems overly complex, a whole lotta hoops to jump through. Doesn't make sense. But hey, good luck learning the lesson, kids.

So yeah, Dave Filoni gets what attachment means. He just doesn't think it's as bad as Lucas' films frame it as, and disagrees on the Jedi narratively embodying the concept of compassion.

And I think it's coping. It's connecting non-existent dots, Always Sunny-style, to justify not liking characters that weren't meant to be developed much, due to their calm, collected nature and secondary/tertiary role in the story.

Coping and coming up with headcanons are what any irritated Star Wars fan does when they're confronted with something they're unable to make sense of.

“I care because I passionately believe that important stories ought to make sense.” As well you should—and when a story does not, you apply that passion to finding a way to make it make sense. [...] When a rational and inquisitive mind is confronted by the engaging yet irrational, it often responds in this manner. This process is not usually appreciated by those undergoing it; the most common reaction is a deep irritation. But isn’t that always how pearls are formed?” - Don DeBrandt, Star Wars on Trial, 2006

Unless they choose to make documentaries and click-baity YouTube video where they decide to spew hate and get angry pointlessly. Which I'd argue is still worse.

[jedijoanna]

I wish the Jedi could just disappear somewhere safe, happy, respected, and appreciated. The galaxy did not deserve them, and it suffered without them. 

I was reading (watching?) somewhere that as the clone wars progressed, the Jedi were beginning to lose their connection to the Force. And I cannot even begin to understand how terrifying and devastating that was for them.

I can't even imagine.

This thing that has guided them all their lives is suddenly disappearing. Their connection to their culture and their livelihood is being taken from them, and they can't put their finger on why.

The amount of confusion, fear, and anger Mace himself must have been feeling due to this makes me so sad for him. Because i'm sure a good number of it was directed at himself and his situation.

And it turns out he was right all along about who it was coming from, and was powerless to stop it.

(I think alot about how the Jedi put Anakin up on a pedestal of privilege, but it makes me sad to know they gave him everything they had and he still chose evil over them. That he toyed with them, and their connection to the Force. That he got to be the Chosen One while others arguably deserved it more)

And still, Mace died because he chose the path of the Jedi, and trusted the Force even when the Force was being shielded from him, because he still gave Anakin a chance

[dapurinthos]

hey good morning no surprise it's me in your asks

💚+🧡

🧡 What is a popular (serious) theory you disagree with? SO MANY. but: one for the overall trilogy, one specifically for the clone wars, and one specifically for the prequels:

1) balance means an equal number of jedi and sith or equal use of the force by the jedi and the sith. no. that’s not the daoism on display here. the sith are not part of any balance. the light/dark sides of the force are not the same thing as yin-yang. go all the way back to the originating terms and it’s more like ‘bright’ & ‘dim/shade’; look at the semantic parts of the compound and they have ‘sunbeam’ and ‘cloud’. the sith aren't the cloudy side of the hill. the sith made that side of the hill cloudy because they parked an obnoxious superweapon that gets its energy through the torture of living beings on top of it.

2) korkie kryze is not a kenobi. satine & obi-wan did not have a secret love child during that year on the run on mandalore. they were seventeen! and the clone wars makes it pretty clear that obi-wan hasn't been back to mandalore since.

3) palpatine did not drain padmé’s life-force to help vader live. he knows how to drain someone’s life-force, sure, but he doesn’t know how to transfer that life-force. he doesn’t know how to immortal. that’s the point. he offers anakin something he doesn’t have and then goes ‘lol we’ll find out together’.

💚 What does everyone else get wrong about your favorite character? thrawn is not a hard-line imperial in the way that tarkin is a hardline imperial or in it for the glory of the empire. he joined the empire to help the chiss ascendancy because they could see the empire-building going on in ‘lesser’ space and the defence fleet used his pre-emptively attacking (going against ascendancy military doctrine) his opponent as an excuse to plant him on a planet where he would end up being picked up by the imperial navy. he rose through the ranks not only because it was best for him and the ascendancy but because he made a promise to eli vanto about making things better. he poaches people for the chiss ascendancy from the empire!

⬆️ he almost gets shot by yularen for this 'treasonous' statement. sorry babe but you're a bit uninformed on the 'will not live forever' part.

and filoni is going to get everything wrong about him which means there are going to be so many more people getting everything wrong about him when ahsoka season two comes out and i will be irritated.

[kyliafanfiction]

You know, I am happy to criticize the Jedi for their mistakes and failings with Anakin and in the decades leading up to the Clone Wars. I'm happy to point out what I see as flaws in the Jedi Teachings and weaknesses in the structure of the Order as a whole. The poor choices underlying many of the systems that they operate under.

None of this to say they deserved what happened to them (not even close), that they were the real bad guys (obviously not) or even that they were particularly stupid or incompetent (they weren't). Many of the problems were the result of decisions that made perfect sense at the time, or in contexts where they seemed reasonable. And in general, many of their choices were the best choice really available to them with what they had.

And I'm happy to point out their flaws and their successes and discuss how the Jedi's own mistakes contributed to their destruction (which is key to making the Tragedy of the Prequel Trilogy work, in my opinion), even if it's not their 'fault', what happened.

And that's the key. Like, Jedi done fucked up. They did. But you know what? The Jedi Critical side of fandom, which I am often part of (though not as far as some people) likes to spend so much time criticizing the Jedi for what went wrong that they honestly steal credit from the guy that really did it.

I remember seeing a meme once, here on tumblr, but it was something along the lines of a speech bubble of Palpatine saying "everyone talks about Anakin this and Jedi failure that and the Senate corrupt the other thing, but nobody talks about Palpatine and how it was his success and his plan. No one says 'ooh, Palpatine was so smart and so clever, he deserves to be named sith of the year!" (might have been multiple people on the post to make the form I'm remembering). And like, ha ha, but honestly, I do feel like some people are so busy criticizing the Jedi (or Anakin, but the Anakin-Critical posts are not the point here) that they forget that Palpatine was like... a fucking mastermind.

By the time the Clone Wars actually started, the trap was sprung, and a course of events that were nearly inescapable were already in motion. Palpatine (and his master, Hego Damask, aka Plagueis) crafted a scheme that was decades in the making, building on the centuries of work that their predecessors in the Line of Bane did to gather influence, stymie the Jedi and jam up the works of the Republic. The specific moves that led to the fall of the Republic were put into motion by Damask and Palpatine, though, and Palpatine executed them. He (and then Dooku, once he joined in) crafted a trap for the Jedi, the Republic, the Separatists - all of them. The Clones and the Droids both ultimately worked for him, but he created a situation where everyone pretty much had to do what they did or (as far as they knew) worse things would happen.

The Jedi couldn't not be part of the war - they started it by going to Geonosis, in the eyes of the public, and they were the closest thing the Republic had to a real military core. The Republic had to adopt the clones because they had no damn army and no time to make one. The Separatists had to fight because 'look, clone army, the Republic was always going to attack us!'

Yes, technically, no one had to do those things, but Palpatine is considered one of the GOAT Villains for a reason - because he was a mastermind, because he constructed this scheme and pulled all the strings and put a trap out that worked. A trap that we the viewer can see through, but a trap that the people in the moment couldn't - and not because they were stupid, or blind, but because Palpatine was just that fucking good.

Jedi failed, yeah. But Christ on a Pogo Stick, it's definitely true that Palpatine absolutely schemed and plotted and intrigued his fucking heart (a small, blackened, smouldering little acorn of a heart, but still) out.

The fall of the Republic and the death of the Jedi was as much, or more, Palpatine's success as it was the Jedi or Senate's failure.

[moreespressoformydepresso]

Fandom's Takes On Trauma Are Terrible And Here's Why: brought to you by terrible Coriolanus Snow and Anakin Skywalker discourse

I've been on the verge of making this post for a while now, but I kept not doing it because this might be a bit of a hot take and I don't like offending people. However, I've been growing increasingly annoyed with the perception of one specific character type so lets see how much my dumb opinions stir the pot this time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. This will be focused mainly on my current main fandom: The Ballad Of Songbirds And Snakes, as well as Star Wars. You'll see why. Now, I need to make it clear that I'm not judging anyone for their opinions on characters for any reason. In no way am I insinuating you're a bad person for having opinions different to mine or that you’re not allowed to have them. What I am saying is that fandoms have some frustrating and frankly insulting beliefs around trauma and those who survived it, and I'm gonna talk about it because I want to get this off my chest. With that said:

Y'all don't understand how trauma works and it annoys me

As stated in the title, I'm writing this because of the Coriolanus Snow discourse, specifically regarding whether he's a good or bad person. Lets rip off the bandaid straight away: He's a bad person. There's no question about it, Snow is a vile human being. And he's one of my favorite characters because of it. He's fantastically written and hands down one of the most realistic, viscerally terrifying yet utterly pathetic villains ever. And what I hate about the TBOSAS fandom more than anything (aside from how some of them treat the actors) is the way they take away all his agency in the story. But I'll put a pin in that because I have a lot to say about him and instead start at the beginning of my growing frustration with how fandom perceives trauma (feel free to skip through this post, I'll label my sections in case you don't wanna read this whole thing). There's two sides, and both are equally stigmatized and wrong. So lets start with the more obvious one through the lens of Anakin Skywalker.

The Star Wars Fandom's Weird Relationship With Traumatized Children Behaving Like Traumatized Children

So Anakin Skywalker AKA Darth Vader is pretty explicitly a Bad Dude who's done some Bad Things. Bro committed genocide, ain't no getting around that, except... It's a little more complicated. Sure, he did all those terrible things, but a lot of people take that to mean he was always a horrible monstrous big bad in the making who was destined to become the galaxy's worst nightmare. That's missing the whole point of the prequel trilogy, because those movies essentially serve to explain all the reasons for Anakin's descent into villainy, and he had surprisingly little hand in it. Growing up into slavery means he not only has a warped view of the galaxy thanks to all the horrors he's witnessed, it also means he lacks the teachings Jedi younglings get when they grow up in the temple. He was pawned off onto Obi-Wan who had only recently been knighted and was in no way ready to raise a child, and became "friends" with Palpatine who fed him all sorts of lies to manipulate him into becoming little more than an attack dog. Not exactly ideal circumstances for a child in their formative years. Did Anakin shirk the Jedi's rules? Yes. Did he do dumb stuff? Yes. But he was a traumatized teenager, of course he's acting out. When he massacres the Tusken Raiders, it's Padme Amidala who reassures him it was the right thing to do. He felt guilty about it, so this idea that he's some apathetic monster from the second he's born is dumb. It's not that Anakin was born wrong, it's that the people around him either failed to help him go down the right path or were actively trying to push him down the wrong one. Anakin never fully grasped the Jedi's ideals, because the person meant to teach him just wasn't equipped to do so. If he'd had someone to teach him how to get a hold of his emotions, distancing himself enough from them to make the best possible decision and helping him understand the importance of letting someone go when you have to, he wouldn't have fallen to the dark side the way he did.

Anakin did terrible things, but blaming it on him just having an evil heart shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how people's environments change who they are. A life in slavery, where he was not allowed to have anything and risked losing what he held dear at any second with no control over it likely caused him to be very possessive of what he held close to his heart once he did have some control over what he kept and lost. Shmi died because he wasn't there to protect her (in his head), so he clung to the people he loved so he could save them the way he couldn't save his mother. Palpatine actively groomed him, if you think that didn't have any effect on him I don't know what to tell you. Throughout the war, he constantly lost people he was close to. That control he had slowly starts to fade as Ahsoka leaves and he starts having dreams about Padme dying. He does everything to save her, only to find out she betrayed him (in his mind, a thought quite likely influenced by PTSD as well). I can tell you that believing one of the few people you trust has betrayed you can make you act very impulsively. Anakin made an impulsive decision and regretted it for the rest of his life. He wasn't born a monster, the world turned him into one.

However, that does not excuse his actions. It explains them and spreads the blame to more people, but his actions are still his actions. Anakin separated himself from his past because of all the pain it brings him, and in doing so he did a lot of bad things. And he still needed to face consequences for those actions, even if the events that led up to them aren't necessarily on him entirely. If he'd gotten therapy, he wouldn't have choked Padme to death. Possibly he wouldn't have attacked the temple. But he didn't, and he did all those things trauma or not. I have major issues with the way some Anti-Anakin parts of the Star Wars fandom insist on ignoring or writing off his trauma, but that doesn't mean I'm absolving him of all guilt.

An explanation is not an excuse, and that sentiment brings us to the reason for this little rant:

Coriolanus Snow's defenders have a habit of infantalizing trauma survivors and I wish they would stop

Oh Snow, how your amazing character completely flew over the heads of most of your loyalest fans. I'm joking, obviously, but also... It's not exactly wrong. Now, I need to make this clear: I'm not insulting Snow fans here. I'm kind of one of them (I hate his guts but I love how he was written, it's a love hate relationship). However, the way people talk about his trauma... I'll be honest, it's kind of sickening for reasons I'll talk about later after getting through the technical(?) stuff. Where the way people view Anakin disgusts me, the way people treat Snow disturbs me. Because people view The Ballad Of Songbirds and Snakes as if it's some typical tragic villain backstory that humanizes and in some ways justifies who he became, to show what changed him from a normal person into a monster. It's not. It actually shows that Snow has always possessed the traits that made him the monster we know from the OG series. What it does is explain why specific things were so important to him and how he grew to lose all redeeming qualities, letting the worst aspects of his personality grow and take over until it's all there's left of him.

What made Snow do stuff like poison political adversaries and constantly beat down the districts so they don't rebel? A thirst for power. A thirst he's always had, born from the feelings of entitlement he held thanks to his family's previous status. He deserves that power in his mind, so he'll do anything to get it. Power, control, and influence are his driving motivators. It's at the back of his mind throughout TBOSAS, and by the time he becomes a gamemaker it's the only motivation he has left. Those traits, the things that pushed him to do what he did, they were always there. There was just more stuff to cover it up. Stuff that fell away with time. Snow is a terrible person, but people pretend he's some poor misunderstood baby who just needed a hug because... why? Because he has trauma. And that's the root of the problem. Does he have trauma? Absolutely. He survived a war, he lost his parents, struggled through poverty while being raised by propaganda from the Capitol and was arguably groomed by Gaul. Sound familiar? It's kind of like Anakin. Horrible childhood filled with loss, less than amazing figures raising him and grooming. Except people use the opposite argument for him which is equally wrong: he's traumatized, so we cannot blame him.

Yes we can.

Trauma does not justify your actions. It might explain them, but you are still accountable for your own actions. Snow murdered people, starting with Bobbin, and every single time it was his choice to do so. It doesn't matter why he made that choice, because he still did it. He ruined countless lives and ended nearly as many, both directly and indirectly. No amount of trauma justifies that. I've seen people claim he's just an anxious young boy who's a poor victim of circumstance, and anyone who doesn't believe so is simply unable to separate the actions of an 80-something-year-old from the 18-year-old, but... No. That's one of the most braindead takes I've ever heard, I'm sorry. Snow hadn't committed the crimes of his older self yet, but the behaviors he shows in TBOSAS are the ones that led him to doing so later on and ignoring that is just stupid. I don't need to judge Snow based on his later actions to call out how fucked up he was in TBOSAS. Again, he chose to murder several people and deluded himself into believing he was justified. That's what makes him a great character. Bad people always believe, on some level, that they're doing the right thing. It's fascinating. But people take his words at face value when he says he's doing the right thing, and the whole point is that he's wrong. He's lying to himself. Because that's what people do sometimes. Snow's family was knocked off its throne, and Snow clung to the idea that the districts are beneath him and at fault to cope with that. He deluded himself into believing Gaul's dumbass theory to justify continuing the games.

It's the exact opposite of Anakin Skywalker: Trauma is relevant, it does inform your perspective on the world and your actions, but it does not mean you can do no wrong. Snow had every chance to be a good person: Knocking Bobbin out or running away instead of murdering him, joining the rebellion with Sejanus, staying in district 12 with Lucy Gray and being honest with her. But he killed Bobbin. He fucked over the rebels and got Sejanus killed. He lied to Lucy Gray and destroyed any chance he had with her. Every chance he got, he threw into the fire without hesitation. Anakin leaned into being a bad person to forget the past, Snow chose to be one because it benefitted him the most. Neither of them are excused because of their trauma, their descent into villainy is simply explained. You know why? Because both of them created new victims. Snow was complicit in the murder of hundreds of children before becoming responsible for thousands more, he killed people with his own hands and ruined several lives over the course of TBOSAS. All that pain he caused isn't erased because we can explain why it happened. Even at 18, Snow has many things he should be held accountable for. War, being an empoverished orphan, being groomed, none of that nullifies the shit he's done. People who say Snow's just an anxious, young, traumatized boy are one side of the horseshoe theory of the myth of "the perfect victim". The "Anakin's Trauma Should Be Ignored Entirely" crowd are the other side. Which brings us to...

It's all horseshoe theory

To conclude the analytical part of my post, I'll bring it back to what I briefly mentioned in the intro to all of this. Agency. That's the running thread here. Both in cases like Anakin and cases like Snow, the fandom takes away all agency a character has in the story for the sake of justifying one's feelings about them. Anakin was born a monster and he was always destined to be evil. It wasn't the trauma, it wasn't the events of the story, he's just bad. On the other hand, Snow is a good person who was made to do terrible things by his trauma. It's all the trauma and nothing else. His bad childhood caused him to be this way and it has nothing to do with his own worst personality traits. See the connection? In both these instances, the characters had no influence over who they became. With Anakin, nothing could've had any influence because he's just born wrong. With Snow, it's everything around him that shaped him into who he was. Both scenarios completely ignore the character and focus on external factors to explain everything. One demonizes trauma victims by saying those that went off the rails are just bad people and there's nothing to be done about it, the other infantilizes trauma survivors by saying they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions just because they have trauma and it's only when they're older and should know better that we can bring consequences down on them.

Victims of trauma should be held accountable, though. The only thing the presence of trauma should change is what kind of accountability. Merely locking them up won't change anything, they should receive help to work through their problems while residing in a place where they cannot hurt anyone else. Including themselves. That is what acknowledging trauma is useful for. But this? This is doing nothing but stigmatizing trauma survivors even more than they already are, and I hate it. And you wanna know why I hate it? Because I've been both sides of this horseshoe, and it nearly got me killed.

The part where I talk about my Tragic Backstory(TM) to explain why this bothers me so much

This'll be a little heavy, so while I'm not gonna go into detail I advise you to please be careful. If you're not in the headspace to handle talk about actual real life mental health issues, feel free to stop reading here. I'm putting this at the end for a reason. If you really wanna know why people's perspective on Snow disturbs me but don't wanna risk getting triggered, skip to the last bold line in this post.

Without going into detail, I've dealt with some pretty big mental health issues throughout my life. One of them is PTSD, so believe me when I say I understand that trauma can heavily influence one's actions in ways even they don't understand. But I had to learn the hard way that there's a difference between explaining and excusing. I used to believe that, because of my previous experiences, I was entirely justified in doing what I was doing. Kind of. At that point, I didn't know that what I was experiencing was PTSD, but I did feel justified in my actions the same way Snow does. I explained every bad thing I did away and wrote it off as nothing or sometimes even as a good thing. Granted, I never did anything as big as committing murder, but I don't live in a country as dark and horrible as Panem so we'll chalk it up to that. As I grew older, I started to recognize the ways in which I accidentally hurt the people around me, and eventually had the realization that my past does not in fact justify the pain I was causing people entirely uninvolved in what happened to me. They had nothing to do with that, and shoving all my pain onto them the way I did was wrong. My view of myself pivoted to the other side of the horseshoe. If I'm not justified, am I... am I bad? Am I evil? Am I just born wrong?

I don't know how to explain this to anyone who hasn't gone through this themself, but that is a horrible feeling to have. To feel like you're just bad and there's nothing you can do about it... It kills something inside of you. A hope, a will to keep going and keep trying. Why bother when you cannot be fixed? I've lost the will to live at two points in my life, and that was one of them. And now I get to see both of these mentalities be repeated by dumbasses who don't understand the first thing about trauma. It's... not fun. It's grating and aggravating in a way I can't accurately bring across with just my words. It makes me wanna scream and laugh hysterically until I cry.

Here's the thing: I relate to Snow, and the way people perceive him disturbs me on a visceral level.

As I said, I justified my own bad behavior the same way he does. I convinced myself I was a blameless poor victim who had no hand in their actions. But just like Snow, I did. Not nearly as much as I would have liked, but I did. I learned to control the defensive mechanisms my trauma gave me, and I grew from it. Seeing people defending Snow with the same arguments that kept me from ever getting over what happened to me, crying out that he's just traumatized so none of it's his fault... it disturbs me. Because they're outsiders who should be able to see the pain he caused others and realize that nothing changes the fact that he did that. But they don't. They're me, without any of the personal stakes that kept me trapped in my own delusions. It's all just fiction, and I know that, but it hits just a little too close to home for my comfort. It's a little too raw and a little too real for me to just let it go and move on again like I always do.

I'm sorry for the rant, I didn't mean to make this post this long but I guess I hope you find something of interest in here that made it worth reading? Have a nice day 💜

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Do you think they should have went with the Chosen One plot for Anakin when they made the prequels? I've been rewatching the original trilogy and there is no mention of any prophecy. It seemed more like Anakin was a very powerful Jedi, but nothing grander then that.

Then, all of sudden the prequels are saying that he is the literal messiah of the Galaxy, destined to bring balance to the Force.

I mean, this isn't the blog for that, anon.

It's really not the blog for it not just in the sense that we talk about how things are here not how we want them to be but also because I think the Original Trilogy are also incredibly bad movies. They're not winning awards for being any better than the rest of the gang or any more righteous, they just have nostalgia, a few great actors carrying the weight (but only a few and not even some of the most important ones), a fantastic soundtrack (that admittedly is strikingly similar in parts to Holst's The Planets), and some great special effects and editing as of the time that George has tried to strip away with every passing year. It's no skin off my nose if the Prequels took some liberties to make things better (and... the thing about The Prequels is that they're not better, of course, but the plot is a lot more compelling than 'the Death Star blew up once' followed by a short break then 'the Death Star blew up twice')

But as for your question, it didn't strike me as too odd we didn't hear of it, because that's the whole thing: Jedi culture is wiped out to two known survivors (that we see anyway). And per those Jedi survivors, Anakin was very clearly not the chosen one as he did anything but bring balance to the Force.

So, you have Obi-Wan who doesn't want to talk about fucking any of it and lies through his teeth multiple times to Luke because he just doesn't want to talk about any of it. Then you have Yoda who wants to talk about it even less.

Neither is bringing up "did you know there was this prophecy where your father was supposed to bring balance to the Force? Boy, did he sure not do that".

Vader certainly isn't bringing it up either as, well, look at his miserable life and how much he hates himself and the Jedi. He's not bringing up their stupid prophecy that clearly wasn't true.

Remember very little is known about the Jedi for the common people, especially after Palpatine's taken over and spread propaganda and such. Han doesn't even think the Jedi are real and if he does it's "that weird space religion cult thing that died out???"

That is to say the prophecy is not common knowledge and especially not for people like Luke, Han, or even Leia for that matter for all she's a little more Jedi adjacent.

Even within the Jedi we see that people don't take the prophecy seriously. That was a Qui-Gon thing. He was super into that prophecy, yo, and the other Jedi (Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan even) all sort of stared at him looking very upset for insisting on this.

And in the war, while Anakin was an exceptionally talented Jedi, he wasn't really used as a propaganda piece/seen as the only Jedi who would save them all.

The prophecy was just the reason Qui-Gon insists on training him despite his age and is one of those things that seems to have actually been correct for all that no one will ever admit it.

(@therealvinelle can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm going to lay down something that will make people very upset: Anakin being "The Hero with No Fear", seen as one of two great Jedi in the war who are doing so much for the cause more than anyone else, and the extra focus on this prophecy was an invention of Disney's 2008 The Clone Wars, not the films.)

[sinvulkt]

PT - Will you be a Hero, or a Villain?

Summary: In a galaxy of superheros and supervillains, people are born with or develop a letter on their skin, indicating whether they are destined to become a ’villain’ (V), a ’hero’ (H), or a normal person (N).

Anakin made sure he was the only person aware of the V embed on his flesh.

Era: Prequel Trilogy

Characters: Anakin Skywalker

---

Snippet:

Anakin rolled the joints that made the fingers of his prosthetic arm. Even now, weeks after it had been replaced, it felt odd to him. The missing arm felt like a void, but it also brought a form of relief. Now, there was no proof left in his world that he didn’t belong with other Heroes.

He experimentally twisted the mechanical arm to show the underside of its wrist. The machinery smoothly complied. Anakin touched the cold surface with wonder. There used to be a V here. One that fastly became a burned mark, as his mother discovered it with horror. Villain slaves rarely lasted long, or if they did, it was in conditions where they wished they didn’t.

Villains in general weren’t the most long-lived people. Although, ironically, heroes’ life expectancy didn’t fare much better. 

Not for the first time, anger raced through Anakin's veins at the absurdity of the system that ruthlessly dictated everyone's life. No mark should define who someone was.

Sometimes he wondered if that anger came from his mark as well. But his mark was twice gone, burned and cut away. It couldn’t define who he was anymore.

Anakin was the Chosen One. He was the markless hero who would lead everyone beyond a world where children had to fear the day their marks were drawn, and a simple pattern on the skin decided a person's whole life. 

He was the greatest Villain, who would tear this wrenched society apart.

Anakin would show them. He would show them all.

---

Plot Description:

People either are born with or have appearing a mark on their skin: a letter, indicating whether they are destined to become a ’villain’ (V), a ’hero’ (H), or a normal person (N). Maybe the mark is decided by destiny, by an unknown magic filling this world- or perhaps humanity created a technology that, by studying a person’s life experiences and genes, calculates the likelihood of someone turning against society order. 

Qui-Gon finds Anakin on Tatooine, or in an equivalently sucking place. Finding out that Anakin is free of any mark, possessing neither a V, a H or a N, he declares him to be ’The Chosen One’. 

Anakin is always cautious to hide the remains of the ’V’ mark that would doom him, to protect the lie he and his mom told the slave Masters, and then the Jedi. They burned it away, so in a way, it was true he didn’t have a mark anymore. It was fine. No matter what the mark once said, he was a Hero. He was as good as the other padawans, if not better than them!

Padmé ends up learning about the nature of Anakin’s mark, but she doesn’t care. If anything, it is proof that her belief about the wrongness of this system is right: no mark should define people. As far as she is concerned, Anakin acts like a Hero, so he is one, no matter the letter that once stood on his skin.

Palpatine is at the top of the political world, be it as the Hero Head (a false H on his skin for everyone to see), or as the president (an inconspicuous N keeping him out of any suspicion). Obviously, his mark is a false one, only here for show. At the end of it all, when the time comes for heros to die and villains to finally rise, he reveals himself to have been a Villain all along. Somehow he did manage to find out about Anakin’s not-so-markless nature, and helped him hide that fact: it’s always useful to have one more hidden villain under his fold, even one in denial. 

Irony is rampant, and self-fulfilling-prophecies know how to rule a world. 

What do you think? Do the marks we are born with define us?

They don’t, not truly. But the Force tends to have a shitty sense of humor and destiny always comes knocking.

[marvelstars]

Nuance in Star Wars

There is some tendency in a lot of fandoms but also the SW fandom in particular that holds this belief that you can´t support "morally wrong characters because they reflect on your own morality" something I believe is really absurd not just because you can´t judge a person by the cartoons/movies/series they like but also because fiction itself doesn´t work that way, in fiction characters ARE supposed to have virtues and flaws, no matter if their actions are morally wrong or right and in a story like the prequel trilogy of star wars, which is supposed to be a tragedy and tragedies are all about fatal flaws, is practically a requeriment for the characters to be flawed, because something seriously went wrong to get the story to the way things were in A New Hope.

The Jedi Order was well meaning, were loyal to strong principles and tried their best during the prequel trilogy but they also grew arrogant in their possition of power after being unchallanged for centuries to the point they believed their own counsel that the sith were erradicated over evidence staring right at them in TPM and often they were compromised by senate politics, something the Sith used agaisn´t them to get their revenge on them and manipulated things in a way that made the Jedi complicit in supporting slave soldiers, the fact they didn´t even notice they did this says volumes because the soldiers were needed so it was neccesary and they were the "guardians of peace and justice" after all.

Obi-Wan was a model Jedi of the old jedi order, he genuinely loved being a Jedi, help people, follow the code and he is a great warrior but this fact also assured he didn´t know how to handle a student like Anakin, a former slave not raised at the temple, who believed in doing something out of compassion not just an abstract idea of good which Obi-Wan mistakenly took to meant Anakin didn´t care for justice or abstract concepts, he did, "he believed the biggest problem in the galaxy was that no one helps each other" so he was convinced he could be the one who could help but given Anakin grew up a slave on Tatooine, Anakin learned you can have the best principles in the world like the republic or Jedi did and yet not put them in practice to a real effect, see the republic ignoring slavery in the outer rim or leaving his mother behind because he was supposed to become a jedi without "attachments"

So principles don´t matter much if they don´t help to make the life of those subjected to them better in a real way, not just an abstract one and he called this compassion- unlimited love. Obi-Wan then teached Anakin to follow orders even or especially if they went agaisn´t Anakin´s povs because Obi-Wan thought Anakin´s main beliefs were wrong just like later he believed Luke´s beliefs were wrong, the difference being that he no longer had a hold over Luke like he did with Anakin. The result was that Anakin went from being someone sure of himself, strong willed and compassionate to become someone constantly doubting himself, expecting direction, becoming angry for not getting things done, Obi-Wan didn´t train Anakin to develop his own discerniment of right and wrong like Yoda did with Luke, this is why Obi-Wan said in the OT he didn´t train Anakin as well as Yoda did.

Vader and Anakin are the same person, they drive star wars as a narrative but they are the same person on very different mental spaces, ultimately Anakin is the person who believed he could change the system, save everyone else affected negatively by it and do so in a virtuos heroic manner if he was strong enough and had enough compassion and love in himself but he progressively not only stopped trusting his own sense of right and good, he believed power was more neccesary than love because power could get things done, he allowed others to tell him what he was supposed to think or do and began developing a growing anger over his apparent betrayal of everything good he ever wanted to do for those dear to him(leaving his mother which resulted in her death) but also the galaxy(Not being able to free the slaves and later slaving himself to Palpatine).

Vader is the pessimist, nihilist Anakin who got convinced in the end there is no changing the system, jedi and sith are equally corrupt, the end justifies the means, he will never stop being a slave, you only can join the system and control it to do your own thing, you can´t save anyone, just try to keep them alive a little bit more and ironically Vader in his distant and cold judment with no apparent attachments, see him attacking Ahsoka and Luke out of duty or emotions driving his character, resembles way more the Jedi the old order expected Anakin to be than Anakin himself ever did because the Jedi never appreciated the honest good, compassion and love Anakin had within himself, the good Padme and Luke saw in him that saved the galaxy or the Jedi saw it as the incorrect way to do things so Anakin broke himself into trying to fit their mold until he became an emotionally distant half machine sith who destroyed the Jedi Order for the greater good of keeping his love alive and the republic/empire in one piece and the Jedi were acceptable sacrifices. This on itself is a tragedy.

The main difference between the good guys of the PT anf the OT is that OT character are not blind to their own flaws but they approach them in a day to day basis and don´t allow those flaws to change the person they were, always having hope they can get a better tomorrow with love and sacrifice. Luke and Leia didn´t love Han because he was flawless but because he showed them they could trust him to keep them safe and care for more than his own interest.

Star wars indeed is a story for kids with puppets but this doesnt mean it didn´t have nuances in their characters and we truly can´t call any character there flawless but that´s the point of the story. It isn´t about being flawless it´s about trying to do the good thing despite all the mistakes you have made along the way and all the flaws you may have and that never is too late to come back if you truly want to.

[beatrice-otter]

Fic: when at last we knew

Here is my Fic In A Box fic! I love Mace Windu, and also, he is a Jedi Master. I'm supposed to believe that being thrown out a window was enough to kill him? Yeah, sure, he got his arm chopped off. So did Luke at Cloud City.You will notice Luke didn't die.

Title: when at last we knew Author: Beatrice_Otter Fandom: Star Wars Original Trilogy, Star Wars Prequel Trilogy, Kenobi Characters: Luke Skywalker, Mace Windu Length: 10,993 words Rating: teen Written For: Huntress79 in Fic In A Box 2024

AN: Title comes from the poem An Old Story by Tracy K. Smith

On AO3. On Squidgeworld. On Dreamwidth. On Pillowfort.

Military pilots never got sent on intelligence missions. At least, not if they had working ships. The Alliance had lost a lot of ships in close succession, first at Scarif and then at Yavin, at the same time as they'd started fighting the Empire directly instead of just the occasional ambush or hit-and-run attack on lightly defended targets. They were short on combat pilots, and even shorter on ships.

So Luke was very confused when he got a message to see General Draven and not tell anybody about it.

Draven was in charge of intelligence, and worked with Leia on coordinating her recruiting and supply missions, but Luke had never dealt with the man.

Draven's office was small, cramped, and very neat. No documents or displays were visible, which Luke supposed made sense; keeping things out of sight made snooping harder.

"You wanted to see me, sir?" Luke asked.

"Yes," Draven said. "One of our oldest and most reliable intelligence channels has put in a request for you, specifically, to do the next handover."

"Why me?" Luke cocked his head. "How did they even learn my name?" The Alliance hierarchy had debated whether or not to use his name in propaganda about the Death Star before deciding that any gain wasn't worth the additional danger of the Empire's attention. That might change if he ever found a Jedi to train him.

Draven shrugged. "Word is beginning to get out, and it's trickling down our own intelligence channels first. Not all of them are as good at compartmentalization as they should be. As for why you … that wasn't part of the request. Just you, by name."

Luke thought about that. "They must be pretty important if you're taking me off combat runs to do it," he said.

"It would be good to keep them happy, and they've never made a request like this before," Draven said. "I'd like to know why now. If you can find out."

"Right," Luke said. "Who am I meeting?"

"I don't know," Draven said.

"You don't know?"

"Compartmentalization isn't just for lower-level operatives, Skywalker," Draven said. He shrugged. "All I need to know about an information channel is how reliable it is … and in all the years this channel has been in operation, their information has never been wrong, it's usually been useful, and it almost always arrives in time to act on it. It's mostly low-level information, but it's more reliable than any other source we have. It's worth some trust … and if something goes wrong, you'll have Captain Solo and Chewbacca to help you get out of it."

"Han and Chewie are coming along?" Luke asked. He frowned. "Why aren't they here for the briefing?"

"They don't need to know the details of your mission, only the planet and city where you will be meeting your contact," Draven said. "The fewer people who know the details, the less chance that something can leak."

"Han and Chewie are perfectly trustworthy!" Luke protested.

Draven snorted. "Everyone who knows you're the pilot who took down the Death Star is perfectly trustworthy. That hasn't stopped your name from floating around … and it's only a matter of time before it reaches the Empire, and puts a great big fat target on your back. The fewer people who know anything, the less chance there is that some careless accident will reveal it. You will not tell any of your friends any details of your mission, which are classified. You will not tell your squadron where you are going, merely that you have been detached for a classified mission and will return shortly."

***

"So, you can't tell us what you're doing, huh?" Han asked. "Not even now we're in hyperspace and on our way?"

They were sitting in the Falcon's crew lounge. Han and Chewie were playing holo-chess, and Luke was sitting at the nav station reading a book Leia had recommended.

"I'm afraid not," Luke said.

"I can tell you what we're doing," Han said. "The Alliance is paying us to deliver their cargo, and then we're supposed to scrounge something up for the trip back. Either a cargo that takes us close to the base, or something from the list of supplies the Alliance wants."

Chewie said something about paying off Jabba, and Han waved that off. "Yeah, yeah, we'll get to it, but we're nowhere near Tatooine or Nar Shadda or anywhere else he's got a base." He turned back to Luke. "Must be something real secret, if you won't even tell me."

Chewie objected to that, something about Luke showing proper respect for his mission, and Han and Chewie bantered back and forth about that until the buzzer went off that they were nearing their destination.

***

Dolsuf would have astounded Luke a year ago. Now he knew it was a fairly average colony world in the Inner Rim, with lots of agricultural space and lots of industry, the fruits of which were mostly shipped to the core. The port they settled in was one of thousands dotted across the planet, and while it wasn't in the largest city it was still a thousand times larger than anything they had back on Tatooine.

Following the instructions that had been written in the document Draven had handed him, Luke bought a pass for the public transit system and took an underground train to the theater district. (Fortunately, he had gone on leave with Wedge and Dak to Anamuu, and they'd had a subway system there, so he knew how to use it without having to ask Han for help.)

Luke wandered around like a tourist for several hours before slipping in the stage door at one of the smaller theaters, off the beaten track. Nobody challenged him, though several people were sitting in the small antechamber playing cards. He wandered the back halls until he found a door that led to the auditorium, and took a seat near the back.

The backstage area had been worn and threadbare, but the auditorium seats were plush, comfortable, and showed no signs of wear. The walls and ceiling were covered in ornamented carvings that Luke could make out only vaguely in the dim light.

The stage was brightly lit. Four people were on the stage, one of them demonstrating a movement. The other three watched intently, until one of them nodded and tried it himself. After a few comments back and forth, the first man nodded. He turned towards the front of the stage and walked towards the stairs down into the seating area.

This was probably his contact. Luke ran through the code phrase in his head for practice.

The actor was a human or near-human, probably late middle age, with dark skin and curly black hair, shot with gray. "We're flattered by the attention, but we're not open to the public yet," he said, stopping next to Luke's chair. "You can come back and see us tonight. We're doing The Cracked Word."

Yes, this was his contact. "I'm a spacer, shipping out in a few hours. Besides, King Nemlii has been a favorite since I was a kid." It wasn't as smooth as he'd like, but Luke didn't think he'd done too badly for his first undercover mission.

"Mace."

Luke bolted upright in his seat. That was Ben Kenobi's ghost—what was he doing here? Except he probably shouldn't have reacted—did that make him look suspicious?

The actor's expression didn't change, but his eyes flicked off to the side, to about where Luke had heard Ben's voice from. Had he heard him? Could he see him? Luke sometimes thought he could, but wasn't sure if he was just imagining things. Ben was very faint.

"Well," the actor said, "if it's your favorite, I suppose we can make an exception. You might as well come up and watch from the front."

Luke got up and followed him down to the second row, and sat in the seat the actor indicated. He watched the rehearsal and tried to look as if he knew what was going on and was enjoying himself. Come to think of it, he should probably have looked up the play and what it was about, if it was supposed to be his favorite.

The actors on stage paid him no mind. After a bit, he shifted in his chair as unobtrusively as he could, and ran his fingers under the seat until he found the data rod taped there.

"The lead actor and director is Jedi Master Mace Windu," Ben said.

Luke didn't jump again, but only because he'd been expecting Ben to say something more. But he couldn't keep his face still at the revelation that here was a Jedi! Right in front of him! A real, live Jedi master! He wanted to pepper Ben with questions, but they were in public and he was undercover. He couldn't just start talking to thin air.

Luke looked down and put a hand over his mouth, so that maybe nobody would notice his reaction, or at least not enough to realize something interesting was happening.

"I thought he was dead," Ben said. "Killed by Darth Vader, when he tried to arrest Palpatine, the night Palpatine declared himself Emperor."

Luke wanted to hear more—a Jedi who'd challenged the Emperor directly! And almost died in the process! How had he survived Darth Vader?—but this wasn't the place for it. "It would be a lot easier to maintain my cover if you weren't saying shocking things," he muttered.

"Oh, of course, I'm so sorry," Ben said.

Luke had been planning on leaving fairly soon—anyone watching would assume that he was needed back at his ship, or that he'd gotten bored—but there was no way he was leaving a real live Jedi Master. This had to be why he'd been requested specifically!

What was the Jedi Master doing, though? Surely, he could have helped the Rebellion more by joining up directly, rather than by simply feeding them information? Draven didn't know who he was, so he couldn't have done anything that would stand out.

Ben had spent twenty years hiding, but then, Ben had been watching over Luke. Was Master Mace Windu doing something similar? Were there other Jedi who survived, that Ben didn't know about? Luke was almost vibrating out of his skin, watching the rehearsal.

***

Mace had had decades of experience with galactic politics at the highest level, in addition to considerable practice at amateur theatrics, before the destruction of the Jedi. The two decades of being a fugitive, combined with subsequent professional acting, had polished his abilities to a high degree.

So it wasn't particularly difficult to keep his renewed grief off his face, as he concentrated on the rest of the rehearsal.

The young Force-sensitive in the audience, however, had no such abilities. Fortunately, his focus on Mace was obvious even from the stage, and so it didn't take much to nudge his fellow-actors' minds in a less-dangerous direction.

Force, but he was bright. Not powerful, necessarily, but in a way that suggested he'd never learned to shield himself, not even the rudimentary shields most Force-sensitives developed reflexively, if they lived in a populated area. His every thought and feeling was broadcast like a beacon—how had nobody ever noticed him? It was true, the Inquisitorius was not large; but they made up for it by travelling constantly. And the Jedi and Sith were hardly the only Force-users in the galaxy.

More to the point, how and why had Obi-Wan never taught him any better? As he was, Luke was dangerous to himself and to the people around him. Obi-Wan must have some sort of connection to him, to be haunting him.

Mace ached to know what had happened to Obi-Wan in the years since the fall of the Jedi; his ghost looked old, much older than Mace had ever seen him; he couldn't have been dead for very long. It grieved Mace to know that his old friend and colleague had been alive all this time. It would have been a joy beyond measure to know another Council member had survived, and a great relief.

"You're a bit out of it today, Gann, do you feel all right?" Kangan said.

Sixi snorted. "No, he's just distracted by the tail he's going to get when we're through here."

Mace rolled his eyes. He trusted his fellow actors, and Force knew they'd all proved themselves willing to turn a blind eye to his work, even not knowing what it was. Still. The less they knew the safer they would all be. "Have you ever known me to be distracted by a date? He reminds me of someone I used to know, that's all."

"Someone he used to know in the religious sense." Sixi's leer was predictable.

"I'd be more interested in your innuendo if you weren't trying to insert it into your portrayal of Prince Zirnzevan," Mace said.

"Hey, it could be there, he could be—"

"If you had any shred of textual evidence to back that up, you would have argued for it already," Mace said, dryly. "We're playing this one straight and traditional. He's driven by fear of loss, by grief, by the way his parents and tutors didn't understand him, and the deep scars that left behind. I think if you make it less about Duke Kostrom, that would help."

Sixi was nodding.

Mace continued. "Zirnzevan's actions really aren't about Kostrom, are they? They're about what's going on inside Zirnzevan's head. He's too deep in his pain and fear to really see Kostrom for what they really are. To see anyone for what they really are. Let's try the scene from the top."

***

It took forever, but at last the rehearsal was over. When the actors were done, Master Windu shooed them off the stage. One of them pointed to Luke, but Master Windu shook his head.

Windu ignored Luke, fiddling around with the sets and props for some time.

"He's waiting until everyone else has left," Ben said.

Which made sense; if he was a Jedi, he wouldn't want anyone to hear what they had to say to each other. Still, Luke was holding onto his patience by a thread by the time Windu finally climbed down off the stage.

"Are you really—"

Windu raised a hand. "I prefer to talk in more … private places."

"Oh," Luke said, chagrined. "Right."

"If you've got time for a meal, you're welcome to join me," Master Windu said.

"Of course!" Luke said. He hopped out of his seat. "Let's go!"

Windu got them both food from a market, and then led them to a small and unassuming hotel.

Once they were in Windu's hotel room, Luke opened his mouth to speak, but Windu held a hand up to stop him. "Please set out the food."

Luke took the bag of takeout, grabbed his patience with both hands, and got the cartons and silverware out of the bag.

Windu rummaged around in the bottom of one of his bags, pulling out a machine. It started playing a noise that Luke realized, after a few seconds, was rainfall with the occasional bird sounds. "We can talk a bit more freely, now."

"Is that a jammer?" Luke asked. "Are you worried that people are going to notice you bringing me here and think it's a spy meeting, or something?"

Windu smiled. "No, and no. If anyone was watching, what they saw was an actor bringing a visibly starstruck young person back to their hotel room. And then turning on a privacy box—cheap hotel rooms are notorious for having thin walls, so people who regularly spend a lot of time in them often have privacy boxes. They aren't quite as good at preventing intentional spying as a dedicated jammer, but they're much less obvious … and they're good enough for our purposes."

"Oh," Luke said, blinking. He hadn't thought of it that way, but it made sense. "Do we … need to do anything to sell the illusion?" He blushed, a little, at the thought of pretending to have sex for potential surveillance to overhear.

Master Windu laughed. "No, the privacy box is sufficient, as long as we speak quietly."

Luke nodded, relieved.

Windu gestured to the room's tiny table and chairs, and they both took a seat. "So," Windu said, "did you know you are being haunted by a Jedi ghost?"

"Yes, of course," Luke said. "Old Ben has been hanging around since he died. I can hear him, sometimes, and sometimes I think I can almost see him, but that might just be my imagination. He taught me how to feel the Force, and how to meditate."

"I see," Windu said. "Well. Usually I would beat around the bush for a bit longer to sound you out, but I think Obi-Wan fully proves your bona fides. I am Jedi Master Mace Windu, head of the Order."

"I'm Luke Skywalker—"

Windu's eyes went wide, and he reared back in his seat.

"Did you know my father?" Luke asked.

"Of course I knew your father," Master Windu said. "He was one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order, and one of the most troubled. He was the one who told us that Palpatine was the Sith Master we'd been hunting for. Then, after our attempt to arrest Palpatine had failed and Palpatine had slaughtered the other Masters with me, Anakin came to Palpatine's rescue, threw me out a window, turned to the Dark Side and joined the Sith, and then led the army into the Temple to slaughter everyone there."

At first Luke couldn't even understand what he had said. "No," he said, once the words had penetrated. "No, that's not right, my father was killed by Darth Vader." Or … had he been killed by Darth Vader after turning? Ben had told him a little bit about the Sith, how they were always betraying each other.

"I was there," Windu said gently. "I saw it happen. Obi-Wan was on Utapau. I was trapped on Coruscant, in the undercity, trying to heal and then save what I could and escape, for … a long time. I saw what Anakin did, as a Sith Lord. I felt his darkness. I have, once, fought an Inquisitor he trained. There is no doubt. Anakin Skywalker is still alive, and he is a Sith Lord."

"That can't be true," Luke said.

"I am sorry." Windu's voice was warm with compassion, but it was also implacable and unyielding. Windu had no shred of doubt he was speaking the truth.

Luke reached out with the Force, as best he knew how. As Ben had trained him to. (But could he trust Ben—Obi-Wan? Had Obi-Wan lied to him?) But the Force answered him, with a finality that reverberated through him like a bell: Master Windu was telling the truth.

"Ben, why did you lie to me?" Luke's voice was choked, and he felt like he couldn't breathe, but he got the words out.

"Luke, has Ben taught you how to release your emotions to the Force?" Windu asked.

"What?" Luke felt like he was swimming through water, as he turned to look at Windu.

"When Jedi are in the grip of some strong emotion, there are ways to release that emotion into the Force," Windu said. "This gives us a clear head, and a heart that is not distracted."

"Distracted?" Luke's breath sped up. He wanted to shout, but he couldn't—someone might hear. "Distracted? Ben lied to me!"

"We don't know that yet," Windu said. "There are a great many hard truths that we must face—truths filled with death, and pain. There are harsh things that must be said. It is very easy, in such times as this, to be guided by our emotions: to let our fear and anger and confusion and pain goad us into saying and doing things that we later regret."

Luke wanted to rage, but … Uncle Owen had often said something similar (though less poetic), when Luke was upset. He'd been right, though the simple childhood fights he'd been talking about paled in comparison to this betrayal. "All right."

"First, let's eat our food, before it gets cold," Windu said.

Luke nodded; Aunt Beru would have said something similar. Everything's harder on an empty stomach. He took a bite of his wrap. It tasted like sand, but he knew better than to waste food. His body needed the fuel. He took a sip of his drink.

"What's your favorite food?" Windu asked.

"What?" Luke frowned.

"Your favorite food," Windu repeated. "Mine's Eoffo pudding. Best place I've ever had it was a little food cart tucked away in Hithol City on Scanu. It was so tender, it felt like it melted in my mouth. And I don't know what that person did with the gravy, but it was amazing."

"Oh," Luke said. He tried to think. "A nerf burger, I guess. Correllian-style."

They talked about inconsequential things until the food was done, and by the end of the meal Luke had relaxed a little bit. They put the containers in the recycle chute, and Windu gestured for him to sit on the bed cross-legged with him.

Windu walked him through a basic meditation. It was a little harder than usual for Luke to get into the trance, but he got there.

"Good," said Windu. "Now, feel your body. Where are your emotions, in your body, right now?"

Luke's stomach was roiling, and his breath kept wanting to speed up, and his body didn't quite feel real, but he did his best. Windu led him through the parts of the body, and helped him to notice how each one felt, and what it meant to him.

"Name your feelings to yourself, even the ones you aren't comfortable with," Windu said.

Luke resisted. He didn't want to. Didn't want to face how Ben had betrayed him. (Didn't want to face the ruin of his hopes and dreams.)

Windu waited for him, and Luke tried, a bit, but there were things he couldn't face.

"Now look up to the Force," Windu said, and led his attention outward. It was as deep as a starry night in the desert, as warm as a sun and cold as the void. Luke himself was barely a pin-prick within it.

"Let it pass through you like a wave, and carry away with it all that you don't need."

Luke had seen waves, now; Rogue Squadron had had leave on a planet with an ocean and beaches, once, and he'd played in the shallows while a few of his squadron had surfed. He pictured one of those sweeping through him. Not enough to knock him off his feet, but enough to tumble him around a bit and scour him clean.

"And now, we come back to ourselves," Windu said.

Luke opened his eyes.

"Do you feel better?"

Luke considered. "Yeah?" he said. "I'm still hurt, and confused, and angry, though."

Windu smiled. "Jedi are not computers, Luke, and even computers can have emotions. The point is not to be rid of our emotions; the point is not to let them overwhelm us. If we're so wrapped up in our own feelings, we can't hear the Force. Or we'll hear what we want to hear, and tell ourselves it's the Force."

"Does that happen often?" Luke asked. "The Force is so much bigger than I am—than any Jedi is."

"But we can only sense it through our own selves," Windu said. "The Force is vast, but often subtle or nuanced. Or obscured. The louder our own wants and fears are, the harder it is to hear the Force … and the easier it is to convince ourselves that our own reactions are the Force prompting us. This is why Jedi must strive for peace within ourselves, and self-knowledge. Great power and sensitivity to the Force will not prevent our own self-deception."

"Oh," Luke said.

"On a more prosaic note, overpowering emotions also prevent us from hearing and understanding others," Windu said. "So now that we are both a bit more centered, let us ask Obi-Wan for his side of the story."

He unfolded his legs and turned so that his back was against the wall. "So. Obi-Wan. Did you know that Anakin Skywalker fell to the Dark Side?"

"Of course he—"

Windu held up his hand. "He wasn't there."

Luke opened his mouth to object again, but Windu spoke over him.

"Things were very tumultuous, and there was no chance to meet afterwards and piece together what had happened. Our entire world was destroyed in the space of a few hours. I've no idea how he escaped. I've no idea what he suffered, what he did, to survive. Neither do you. And neither of us will learn, if we do not listen."

Luke pursed his lips together, but nodded. He took a deep breath and settled himself in a more comfortable position. Ben had sacrificed his life to help Luke and the others escape; he'd helped Luke take down the Death Star. Luke should at least listen to hear what he had to say.

Windu nodded. He turned to the wall where the table was. "So. Obi-Wan." He nodded as if he could see him.

Obi-Wan told his story: being shot down by his own men, meeting up with another Jedi Master named Yoda, slipping into the Temple and watching with horror as his apprentice whom he loved like a son bowed to a Sith Lord.

Luke could hear the pain in his voice. He could almost smell the charred flesh, like his last day on Tatooine, discovering the bodies of Uncle Own and Aunt Beru. He shook his head. That didn't justify lying. Not about something this big.

But the story didn't end there. Ben had gone to his mother—a Senator! A former queen!—and told her what had happened, then followed her as she went to confront his father. How his father had attacked her, hurt her, how Obi-Wan had intervened. How they had fought, and his father had lost.

"I know I should have … finished him," Obi-Wan said, voice broken with pain. "It was cruel to leave him to die that way, and if I had, Palpatine couldn't have found him and saved his life. But I couldn't. I knew that I should—I've killed Sith Lords before, I knew how dangerous they were, I knew that they can sometimes survive things you wouldn't believe possible. But I couldn't do it."

Luke tried to imagine it. Fighting someone he loved. Knowing someone he loved was capable of that much evil. If it had been Uncle Owen or Aunt Beru, or Biggs, or Leia, or Han—could he have killed someone he loved, even if they'd done that much evil? He didn't think so. He hoped he wouldn't—but was that even the right thing to hope for? How many people would have been saved if Obi-Wan had finished Anakin then and there? (How many people would have been saved if his father had listened to his mother, and turned away from the Dark Side?)

(How many would have been saved if his father had never fallen in the first place?)

If Luke had had to kill someone he loved, or tried and failed to kill them, how would he have lived with himself afterwards? Obi-Wan's reputation as a crazy old man—a ghost haunting the sands—made a horrible sense.

But it still didn't explain the lie.

"I went back to the ship—the droids had loaded Padmé aboard—and took her to a discreet medical facility Bail Organa knew of. But it was too late for Padmé. She died. The droids couldn't find anything wrong with her—they fixed what he did, it was a simple injury. The birth was … no worse than usual. I've always wondered: was there something wrong with the droids? Was it something an experienced healer would have caught? Did Anakin do something to her with the Force, something more than merely choking her? Or was it something Palpatine did, some sort of Sith magic—she would have been a threat to him, to his control of his apprentice, to his Empire, if she'd lived. Might a Jedi skilled in healing have been able to save her?"

"Those are all reasonable questions," Mace said, his voice warm. "But … Obi-Wan, you know how useless it is to dwell on things that can't be changed. To center your thoughts in the past, rather than in the present."

"I know, Mace." Luke couldn't see Obi-Wan, but he sounded exhausted. Weary, with the weight of the galaxy on his shoulders. "I've known that for eighteen years. But I was never able to make myself do it. Could you, if it were Depa?"

"Depa was my last apprentice, before the war," Mace told Luke. "I don't know. I hope I would have been able to. I'm sorry you were alone, that there was nobody to help you carry that burden."

"I didn't know anyone else had survived, besides Yoda," Obi-Wan said.

"More survived than you'd think," Mace said. "Jedi are very hard to kill. And there are a lot of people, across the galaxy, who didn't believe Palpatine's lies even at the very start."

This was all very interesting, and at any other time Luke would have been thrilled and fascinated to learn that other Jedi had survived. "You haven't said why you lied to me, Ben."

"It's what he told me, himself," Ben said. "I fought him, once, a decade after he fell. He said Anakin was dead, that he had killed him, that there was nothing left but Darth Vader."

Windu scoffed. "The Sith are masters of deception, including self-deception. He may have believed that; it doesn't make it true."

"Why would he say that, though?" Luke said. "It's obviously not true!"

"It can be true on a metaphorical level," Ben said.

Windu sighed. "He lies to himself about it because that is part of the way Sith manipulate themselves and their apprentices, to keep them tied to the Dark."

"What do you mean?" Luke asked.

"When someone chooses the Dark Side, it is very difficult to turn back from it, and they will be forever changed by their experiences," Windu said. "They will always be plagued by it. But it is possible to turn back … and no Sith master would wish his apprentice to do so. There are several things they do to make it less likely. One is to demand, at the very beginning of the apprenticeship, a task so heinous that it severs every tie the apprentice has and causes them to hate themselves for doing it."

"But if they hate themselves, won't that make them more likely to change?" Luke asked.

"The opposite, I'm afraid," Windu said. "It means that they have a driving motivation to never question their allegiance to the Dark, or what was it all for? If they ever do try to come back to the Light, they must face the evil thing they have done. As long as they continue to choose the Dark Side, they can see it as justified or right or necessary, or simply expedient. In the Light, they can see clearly that it was none of those things. If they can't imagine forgiveness or redemption or even new life is possible … they have every reason to cling to the Dark.

"As for the name, that is similar," Windu went on. "Anakin was a person with friends, a community, a commitment to the Light Side of the Force and the Jedi Order. Anakin had people who cared about him, people who might have held him to account, people who might have walked with him along the path out of the darkness … if he hadn't killed them. Darth Vader has none of those things. If he is not Anakin Skywalker, then he has no connections to Anakin Skywalker's life, no connections other than those he has made through the Sith and the Dark Side. If he is not Anakin Skywalker, then the terrible things he did to Anakin Skywalker's people are no tragedy to him."

"Do you think it's possible for him to turn back to good?" Luke asked, startled. Could his father be saved? His mother had thought so, even after he'd attacked her.

"In the Force, all things are possible," Windu said. "But that is not the same as probable. And it is not a choice anyone can make but Anakin himself. He began his fall with one great evil act, and he has committed countless more ever since. He has tried to kill everyone who reached out a hand to him, to offer help returning to the Light. Including those who loved him, and whom he loved. He must choose his own path—and whether or not he can live with what he has done. You can't choose it for him."

Luke nodded. Leia would have said the same thing. Had said the same thing, about Han. Han had come back, had joined the Rebellion, but not because of anything Luke had said or done. Because he'd chosen to do the right thing.

***

As Luke lost himself in thought, his emotions kept roiling.

Mace hid a wince. He'd have to teach the young man to shield himself as soon as he could; how had Obi-Wan not taught Anakin Skywalker's son to shield? If anyone had found him, he would have been the most important pawn in the galaxy, with dire consequences for Luke himself and everyone else.

But with Luke distracted, there was time for Mace to ask the questions he most cared about, without interruption. He centered himself in the Force, and asked it if this was a safe conversation to have. He felt no danger, saw no shatterpoints other than the remnant of the one that had broken when he had first seen Obi-Wan's ghost and Luke. "You said that Yoda survived the initial few days after Palpatine's rise. Is he still alive?"

The ghost nodded. "Yes. He secluded himself on an uninhabited planet called Dagobah. It has a large swamp, and in that swamp is a cave with a vergence in the Force—a Dark one. From a distance—"

"From a distance, it would conceal all trace of him in the Force, even in visions," Mace said, nodding. "And there would be nothing to draw anyone to an uninhabited planet."

"And a swamp is the most comfortable habitat for him," Obi-Wan said. "At least in so far as a solitary retreat in the wilderness can be comfortable."

"I can see why he made that choice—he was always a very distinctive person, easily recognized—but secluding himself that way meant there was no chance of the Force leading him to me or to any other Jedi," Mace said. "It's a pity. We could have used him."

"Other Jedi?" Obi-Wan sounded startled, as surprised as a ghost could be.

"Nobody you know," Mace said. "Nobody who Palpatine or Anakin would have considered notable. A few who escaped when their battalions turned on them, or who were never involved directly in the war. A few Corps members. A few young Force-sensitives we've rescued from bad situations."

"Where are they?" Obi-Wan asked. "They're obviously not in your acting troupe."

"We have a hidden enclave," Mace said. And he wasn't about to say more than that without better security, even with the Force telling him they were safe for the moment. "But several of us travel around in various guises, looking for survivors, or for Force-sensitives in danger, or for … useful things. Sometimes we find information that would be useful to the Alliance, or to other groups that are working against the Empire, and I pass it along."

"An enclave," Obi-Wan said. "With other Jedi, and younglings to train in safety." He, of course, had no need to worry about security; only a trained Force-sensitive would be able to perceive his words.

"Training?" Luke said. He had all the eagerness of a young tooka. "Could I come? Obi-Wan's been doing his best, but … as a ghost, it's hard."

"You could," Mace said. "It would be a hard path; becoming a Jedi is no easy thing, and—" he shook his head. "Normally, this would be the point where I tell you all about the danger of becoming a Jedi, with the Empire seeking us out to kill us. But given who your father is, and that you're apparently using his name?"

Luke nodded.

"I can't see that training you would put you in any more danger than you're already in, just by existing," Mace said. "And learning to hear and use the Force would be a great ally in staying safe and out of Palpatine's clutches."

***

Much as Luke wanted to begin his training immediately, it simply wasn't possible. Mace had never brought a lover along on one of their tours, and Luke's cover as a theater-loving spacer wouldn't last through a two-second conversation with anyone who knew theater. Moreover, Luke had to see to it that the intelligence Mace had gathered reached the Alliance in a timely fashion.

"You could tell me the name of the planet and I could make my way there by myself," Luke pointed out.

Mace stared at him. "I am not saying the name out loud. Not even if we had a proper stealth generator running."

"If I can't hang out with you until the tour is over and you go to the enclave yourself, and you won't tell me the name of the planet, how am I supposed to get there?"

He was a very impatient young man, Mace noted. "I'm not sure you should go there. If your father doesn't know of your existence already, he soon will—and he will be searching for you in the Force. If he had a vision of you, and could make out any identifying marks of the enclave in that vision, he might be able to track it down. I can't put everyone else at risk."

"Perhaps he should go to Yoda, on Dagobah," Obi-Wan suggested.

"Yoda hasn't taken an apprentice in over a century," Mace pointed out. "And he has never trained an adult who did not grow up within the Temple." And his given the failures of the line of that last apprentice—three who had chosen the Darkness, two of whom became Sith—Mace wasn't sure he was the best choice for Luke.

"Over a century?" Luke said. "How old is he?"

"Somewhere around the 900 years," Mace said.

"He is one of the greatest Jedi to ever live," Obi-Wan said. "He has trained countless generations of Jedi."

"Oh," Luke said, voice filled with awe.

"All of which experience took place in the old Republic," Mace said. "Things are different, now." He considered what Luke might find interesting and relevant. "Your father was brought to the Jedi at the age of nine. We almost turned him away—did turn him away, at first—because he was too old."

"Too old? At age nine?" Luke was appalled.

Mace nodded. "There are advantages to training a child starting when they are a youngling. It ensures that they are part of our culture, and grow up understanding and living by the tenets of our religion, and minimizes the bad habits they will have to unlearn. People who had Force-sensitive children, but who were not themselves part of a Force-sensitive tradition, would often give their children to us." He shook his head. "It is not the only way Jedi have been trained, over the millennia, because our history is ancient. But it is the way Jedi have been trained for the last thousand years. It caused problems with your father—he was so very different from what we were used to. We expected him to adapt, and when he struggled in ways that someone who had come to the Temple younger would not have, we did not know how to help him—and some did not even try."

Mace spread his hands. "It is something I think about often; all of the people we are currently training are older than Anakin was, when he became a Jedi. And we don't have the resources or support that we did then. We have had to adapt. We have learned a great deal. Yoda has trained more Jedi than anyone else in the history of the Order, that we know of."

"But he's been all alone for the last eighteen years," Luke said. "He hasn't learned what you've learned." He sat back, looking thoughtful.

"What do you suggest?" Obi-Wan asked.

"Luke goes back to his base, arranges for leave, and goes to Dagobah."

"But you said—"

"I continue on with the troupe through this engagement," Mace said, "and possibly the next, and then once there's no obvious connection with Luke, I announce that I found another gig and will be taking leave of the company for a while. I join you. It will be … a gift beyond price, to see him again, and we can see what he needs, and what you need."

***

Once Luke had left to go back to his ship, Obi-Wan turned to Mace. "Why did you make such a fuss about Yoda, if you were just going to tell him to go to Dagobah anyway?"

"He idolizes the Jedi, doesn't he?" Mace said.

"I suppose so."

Mace nodded. It had always happened; even at the height of the Order's powers, they were a tiny percentage of the galaxy's population, and the vast majority of people would never see a Jedi in their entire lives. That, plus their abilities, and their role as peacekeepers and bringers of justice, led to a certain amount of myth-making. Their destruction had only heightened that tendency, among people who didn't believe Palpatine's lies. "He can't possibly learn to be a good Jedi himself until he unlearns that, and can see us clearly, both good and bad. We do not want blind obedience. We want a mature Jedi who can see clearly, and learn from the mistakes of the past."

Obi-Wan shifted. Mace narrowed his eyes. He knew that movement; it was guilt. "Unless you do want blind obedience. Why did you lie about his father? Guilt and grief and believing Sith lies can't be the only reason."

"He may idolize the Jedi now, but he's idolized his father all his life," Obi-Wan said. "At best, it will be a distraction. At worst … he will refuse to do what he must. And then we will have no hope left. No hope to save the galaxy; no hope to protect your enclave."

Mace considered this. The deception stank of the worst mistakes the Jedi had made, during the war and in the years leading up to it. Sacrificing ethics for expediency. But he couldn't see the reason for it. "What do you think he 'must' do?"

"Kill Vader," Obi-Wan said. "Anakin, if you prefer. As I should have done, and failed to do."

"Skywalker?" Mace shook his head. "What does that matter? Why would killing the apprentice save either the galaxy or the enclave?"

Obi-Wan's ghost frowned at him. "Vader is more powerful than Palpatine, and the one who has directly slaughtered both the Jedi and countless others. If the enclave is discovered, Palpatine will not come destroy it himself; he will send Vader."

"And if Skywalker is killed, Palpatine will simply replace him with a new apprentice and nothing will change," Mace pointed out. He rubbed his forehead. Obi-Wan had let his attachment to his former apprentice blind his reason. It was understandable, but Mace would have thought that eighteen years to think about it would have given him time to clear his mind. "What would happen if Palpatine were killed, and Vader were left alive?"

"Then Vader would rule in his stead, and take an apprentice, and there would still be two Sith plus whatever acolytes and inquisitors Vader chooses to train."

Mace shook his head. "What, in all the things you know about Anakin Skywalker, implies to you that he would be able to keep the Empire together and rule it?"

"He would kill anyone who tried to defy him," Obi-Wan said.

"No government, not even the Empire, can rest solely on fear of punishment," Mace said. "Particularly not fear of one man. It's true, he could and would slaughter anyone who displeased him, but consider: he can only be in one place at a time. Expanding his powers beyond what he, personally, can be present for requires people to cooperate with him when he is not present. The galaxy is large. Even as a Jedi, Anakin possessed little understanding of politics, and less patience for it. Palpatine rules because, regardless of his considerable skill with the Force, he is an excellent politician. He is very good at getting people to cooperate with him and do what he wants, because he understands what they want and how to manipulate them because of it. Anakin has no such skills. At least he had none when he was a Jedi. Do you think that eighteen years as a Sith will have taught him patience and understanding?"

Obi-Wan scoffed. "Hardly."

"It would devolve quickly into civil war," Mace said, "as other high Imperial officials grabbed for power and tried to either unseat him entirely or break away their own fiefdoms. This would be very hard on the galaxy, and would cause great suffering and death. But it would also provide an opportunity for worlds to free themselves from the Imperial yoke. Not ideal, but better than Imperial rule in the long run." He waited for Obi-Wan to nod.

"As for the enclave, Vader and any apprentice he took would be far too busy trying to maintain their power to come after us," Mace went on. "We'd be safer than we have been since he fell."

He thought about Obi-Wan's reactions, the things he had done since the fall of the Jedi. They had only just begun to scratch the surface of what had passed; there would be many hours of conversation, of meditation, before either would know what the other had lived well enough to understand or judge their decisions.

But it seemed to Mace that Obi-Wan had never considered the possibility that the Jedi might have a future, not just a past. He had thought a great deal about how to kill his old apprentice, but if he had put any at all into what would happen after, it had yet to come up. He certainly hadn't given Luke even the most rudimentary training that might prepare him to carry on the Jedi legacy. And given Luke's excitement at meeting Mace, that lack could not have been Luke's idea.

Had Obi-Wan been trapped, in his head, in those last, few, terrible days? Mace ached at the thought. He himself had spent … a long time, trapped in his own pain, both physical and emotional, and the grief within him was a deep well of sadness that would always be a part of him.

But Mace had, eventually, learned to live. He had crawled out of the hovel in Coruscant's lower levels where he had holed up. He had gathered together what few survivors he could find who had managed to escape the Temple, and they had gotten each other offworld. He had had to set aside his pain enough to function, or they would never have made it. And by the time they had reached a place the Force told them was safe to settle down, and made it habitable, and had time to properly grieve—the worst of it had been behind him.

Behind them. Because they'd had each other to lean on.

Obi-Wan had been alone.

"Why didn't you stay with Yoda?" Mace asked, quietly.

"I—" Obi-Wan broke off, as if he hadn't thought of it. "I had to take Luke to his family, and then watch, to make sure Vader didn't follow. To be there to defend them if he did."

"Were you hoping he would?" Mace asked. "Was that why you let him keep the name, and put him with Anakin's family?" It would be an excellent way to lure Vader in, so Obi-Wan could kill him as he had failed to the first time. But an awful risk for Luke and his family.

"No," Obi-Wan said. "I didn't expect Vader would ever come to Tatooine. He always hated the place, and it has no value to the Empire."

"Did you stay with Luke's family?"

Obi-Wan shook his head. "Even if I had wanted to intrude, Owen held the Jedi responsible for what happened to Anakin, what he had become. He wanted to protect Luke."

The 'from me' went unspoken, but Mace heard it anyways.

"What did you do?"

"I retreated into the desert."

"Did you have anyone?"

"I was alone." There was a wealth of pain in those words.

"I'm so sorry," Mace said.

"I didn't have to be," Obi-Wan said. "I could have rented a room in Anchorhead or Mos Eisley. But I couldn't bear to be around people."

If Obi-Wan were still alive, and had a body, Mace would have asked if he could hold him, physical comfort for both of them. He would have asked if they could meditate together.

But Obi-Wan was dead, and all they could do was sit together in silence.

***

"Hey, kid, you're kinda quiet."

Luke looked up to Han, who was standing over him. Luke hadn't even noticed him and Chewie come into the crew lounge. "Huh? Oh. Yeah."

"Everything okay? Nothing happened? You weren't gone that long."

Chewie yowled that Luke could find trouble in no time at all.

"You said it, Chewie." Han spread his hands. "Okay, what's wrong?"

Luke hesitated. Besides the Alliance's own classification of the intelligence source, he'd been sworn to secrecy about Mace and the Jedi. He trusted Han, of course, but the fewer people who knew, the better. He realized there was one thing he could say.

"I met someone who knew my father," he said slowly.

"You're not looking like that's a good thing." Han slid into the chair across from Luke.

Luke heaved a sigh. "Depends on what you mean," Luke said. "I learned the truth."

"Which is …?" Han trailed off, inviting Luke to speak.

"He's still alive," Luke said.

"And you're sitting here looking like the world is ending, so I'm guessing it's not that easy."

"Ben lied to me," Luke said. "Anakin Skywalker wasn't killed by Darth Vader. He became Darth Vader."

Chewie yowled something Luke had no hope of understanding.

"The Emperor's enforcer?" Han said. "The guy who personally slaughtered three whole brigades on Rorlun IV? That guy?"

"Yeah," Luke said. "That's the guy."

Han swore. "And Ben didn't tell you that maybe you should change your last name, or at least not go around telling people your father was Anakin Skywalker? If Vader hears about you, I got no idea how he'll react but it can't be good."

"I know."

Chewie asked why Ben had lied to him, and Luke sighed. "I don't know. They were very close, and Ben's kind of messed up about the whole thing."

"He's dead, kid," Han pointed out. "Maybe he was messed up about it, but he's not anything, now."

"His ghost hangs around," Luke said. "Sometimes he talks to me."

"His ghost?" Han's voice dripped with disbelief. "I hate to break it to you, but there's no such thing as ghosts."

Chewie said there were enough weird things in the galaxy that he wasn't willing to deny the possibility of ghosts, especially not where Jedi were concerned.

"Chewie—" Han said.

Chewie reminded Han that it was rude to call someone crazy, especially a friend, and unless Han could prove ghosts didn't exist, he shouldn't give Luke a hard time about it.

Han waved a hand, but gave up on arguing with Chewie. "So. You're hearing voices."

"Just the one voice," Luke said. "And the more I practice meditating and other things he taught me, the more clearly I hear him."

Han made a face.

"Once I knew who my father really was, Obi-Wan talked about him, a bit," Luke said. "He killed my mother. He led the attack on the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. Obi-Wan fought him, and won—but couldn't bring himself to kill him. Just left him for dead."

"Was this … ghost … the one who told you your father was Darth Vader?"

Luke shook his head. "No. But please don't ask me who did, or tell anyone about it."

"Was it your contact?" Han asked. "Was that why they wanted you, specifically? How do you know they were telling the truth?"

"I could feel it in the Force," Luke said. "I didn't want to believe it, but as soon as they said it I knew it was true." He hunched over.

He could tell Han was skeptical, but didn't argue about it. "I'm sorry kid. "That must have been rough."

Luke nodded.

They sat there in silence for a bit. Luke couldn't think of a thing to say.

***

Draven's office felt strange.

It took Luke a moment to realize it wasn't because the office had changed, but because he had changed. Or, no, he hadn't; but the things he knew about himself, his family, and his past had changed. But Draven's office—the whole Alliance—was still the same.

"Here's the data, sir," Luke said, handing the chip over.

"Anything I need to know that's not on it?" Draven asked. "That won't compromise the identity of the agent?"

"Yeah," Luke said. "You know that my father was the Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker?"

"I believe it's been mentioned a few times," Draven said dryly.

"It turns out he didn't die with the rest of the Jedi," Luke said. He closed his eyes. "He turned to the Dark Side, and hunted them instead." He didn't want to tell anybody, but if his father could have a vision of him and see what planet he was on, Draven needed to know. It was a security breach.

"He became an Inquisitor?" Draven's voice was carefully neutral.

"No." Luke took a breath, and let it out. "He became Darth Vader."

Draven was quiet for a while. Luke looked down at his hands. He didn't want to see the look on Draven's face, and he was glad he hadn't learned yet how to sense other peoples' emotions in the Force.

"Is that absolutely confirmed?"

"Yes."

"Shame we didn't know earlier," Draven said. "But it's too late to change your name at this point. Still, I can think of ways to use it."

"I'd rather it not become common knowledge," Luke said.

"Of course," Draven said. "Do you know whether he will be interested in a relationship with you, or capturing you, once he learns?"

"I have no idea." Luke sighed. "He killed my mother."

"So we can't count on any family feeling protecting you," Draven said. "Well, I wouldn't have imagined that was possible in any case."

"It's possible that he might be able to have a vision in the Force, that might give him enough identifying information to figure out where I am."

"That will be harder to deal with," Draven said. "Though—is there any way to send him a vision on purpose?"

Luke frowned. "I have no idea. Why?"

"So we can mislead him, or lure him into a trap," Draven said.

"I … don't know, I'll let you know if I find out," Luke said.

"Good." Draven nodded decisively. "Anything else?"

"I'm going to have to take some leave to—" Luke remembered he wasn't supposed to mention living Jedi just in time "—deal with … things." He finished lamely.

"We'll be sorry to miss you," Draven said. "You're a good pilot, and we need every fighter we can get. But it will make security easier, if Vader can indeed get details—any details at all—of wherever you are."

"Yeah," Luke said. "What's—how do I—I don't know who I need to talk to, about arranging for it?"

"Your squad leader," Draven said. "But don't tell them why, if you don't want rumors about your parentage floating around."

Luke nodded.

"How long will you be gone?"

"I have no idea," Luke said, helplessly. How long did it take to become a Jedi? Could he do it part time—a few months with Masters Yoda and Windu, then a few months of missions with the Alliance, then back to training? Surely Master Windu couldn't take too much time off from his travels with his company, if that was how he found Jedi and information.

"Then the question is, how will you find us again when you are ready to come back? We don't make ourselves easy to find, and you know how little communication we allow with outsiders."

Luke nodded again. "I know how to get ahold of Princess Leia, if I have to. And Han, as long as he sticks around." He was always threatening to leave, and Luke wasn't sure if he'd stay without Luke. Also, Master Windu regularly passed information to the Alliance. Even if Leia was out of contact for some reason, and Han had left, Master Windu could get him back in contact.

"Very well," Draven said. "Then may the Force be with you, Skywalker."

***

"If Vader can sense your presence and may be able to track you down, then surely the best place for you is to stay with the Alliance," Leia said, matter-of-factly. She'd taken the news of his parentage with a flinch, but had collected herself with the sort of iron control he'd admired her since the first barb she'd thrown at him when they met.

"I don't want to put you all in danger," Luke protested.

"Whoever you're around will be in danger, if Vader decides to come after you," Leia said. "Nobody else has a prayer of stopping him. The Alliance has a better shot at it than anyone else in the galaxy—and if we could kill Vader, that would be a huge boon for us."

"She's got a point, kid," Han said.

"I know," Luke said. "But I have things I have to do."

"I hope you're not planning to rush off and confront him," Leia said grimly. "At best he'll kill you. At worst … you don't want to know what he does to prisoners. Or what the Emperor does."

"I'm not," Luke said. "This is … something else."

Leia narrowed her eyes. "You've found a Jedi to train you, haven't you."

"How did you—" Luke broke off with a blush as he realized he'd just confirmed it to her. "You can't tell anyone," he said, eyeing them both.

"No, I fully understand," Leia said. "Any Jedi who has survived this long hasn't done it by being careless with their security. I won't betray you—or them. Neither will Captain Solo." She shot him a glare.

"Cross my heart, I won't even tell Chewie," Han said. "Want me to give you a lift?" Han asked. "If you're so determined to go."

Luke shook his head. "I'm supposed to go alone. I need a ship, I won't be able to book passage."

"I'll arrange for a shuttle," Leia said. "We have more of them, proportionally, than any other ship. But it may take a while for one to be free."

***

The moisture in the air rushed in to beat Mace in the face as soon as he opened the hatch, but he ignored it. The Dark vergence clouded his perceptions, but it was only a little worse than the state of the general galaxy.

It took a few seconds of scanning the swamp before he saw Yoda, sitting on a rock to the side of the ship.

Mace drew in a breath. Yoda had aged more than Mace would have expected. A great deal more. "My old friend, it is good to see you." His throat was choked with emotion.

"Yes," Yoda said.

Mace went to him, knelt before him, and embraced him. They clung together, and Mace reveled in the tangible feel of a dear friend he had believed dead. One tiny piece of the weight of his grief fell away.

They meditated together, there on the rock. Words could come later; intwining into the Force with a dear friend was a pleasure Yoda had been denied for eighteen years.

"Tell me about what I have missed, these two decades," Mace said when they raised themselves back to their bodies.

"Caught many frogs, have I," Yoda said. He shot Mace a sly look. "Thrilled, would I have been, eight hundred and fifty years ago, to see that my retirement would produce such bounty."

Mace laughed.

***

"Told me, Obi-Wan has, of your opinion of my teaching abilities," Yoda said later, over dinner.

"I mean no disrespect, or unkindness," Mace said. "You taught countless Jedi, and did it well."

Yoda waved this away. "Afraid of the truth, a Jedi should never be. Telling, or hearing, either. Failed, we did, all of us. Failed our students, failed the Republic, failed the Force. Old I am, and frail. Teach another … I do not know if I can."

Mace nodded. "You and Obi-Wan know more of him than I do," he said. "What is he like? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What strategies had you considered?"

They spent hours discussing Luke and the challenges of training an adult (barely) with no prior Jedi training. It was a relief; Mace was by far the most senior Jedi in the enclave, and conversations like this one, based on an equality of experience and mastery of the Force, were rare.

***

Mace sat outside the hut, and listened in on Yoda's act. It had been Yoda's idea, and not something Mace would have thought of, but it was interesting to hear Luke interact with someone he wasn't expecting to be important. It was very revealing.

Mace had been skeptical that the sort of games Yoda played with younglings in the creche would be effective with an adult, but he'd been wrong.

When Yoda stopped playing with the young man, Mace got up and went in. Luke did a double-take, breaking off his protests.

"Master Windu, you're already here?" he said. "Why didn't you say anything? Were you sitting out there laughing at me?"

"I wasn't mocking you," Mace said. "I was evaluating how you treated someone who is different and odd, and also, how long it took you to look past your own preconceptions."

"But it's not fair," Luke said. "I didn't know I was being tested!"

"In the real world, we rarely know when our words and actions will be important and when they will not," Mace said. "And we weren't trying to evaluate how you treat people you think are important. We were trying to evaluate how you treat people when they're not important."

Luke sagged. "Oh."

"Being a Jedi is not—or shouldn't be—about power," Mace said. "It's about following the will of the Force, and about having compassion for all. It's about being able to see past the surface of things to their true depth."

"Not trusting your eyes, because they can deceive you," Luke said.

Mace nodded. "Yes."

"That was … the Order's greatest failure, during the Clone Wars," Obi-Wan's ghost said. "We became too caught up in reacting to each catastrophe as it came, we did not have the time or attention to step back and see what the deeper problems were. We were too busy with the most obvious problems to see their roots, until it was far too late."

Mace and Yoda nodded soberly.

"And here I just did the same thing," Luke said, a wave of shame flowing through him. "Did you do that sort of thing often, in training Jedi?"

"Lie to them about my identity, I did not," Yoda said. "Could not. Every Jedi knew me from the moment they were first brought to the Temple for training. But play similar games with the younglings, I did, so that practice their manners they could, even when frustrating, the person they talked to was."

"And I just failed a game you played with children," Luke said bitterly.

"You are still very young, Luke," Mace said. "Still learning who you are as a person, still growing. And you are only just beginning your journey as a Jedi. Young people are often impatient, and prone to quick judgments they do not have the experience to realize are flawed. Even back in the Order's height, when all Jedi began their training as children, it was not uncommon for Padawans and new knights to have similar issues. Obi-Wan, for example, was not shy about showing his impatience with the bedraggled and unfortunate people his master regularly associated with."

Obi-Wan's ghost nodded ruefully, although Luke couldn't see him.

"The purpose of being a student is to learn," Mace said. "The purpose of being a Jedi apprentice is to learn about the Force, and about yourself, so that you can more clearly see how to use the Force—and when to let it use you. Don't be discouraged. It's hard work, but I think you will do well, as long as you acknowledge your mistakes and learn from them."

Luke sighed, but nodded.

"Let us begin," Mace said.

[mirrorofliterature]

me when people act like the prequel order was completely perfect and innocent and never did anything wrong, ever: *twitches with barely concealed rage*

like.

- the clones

- leaving Anakin's mum in slavery

- how they handled anakin

- letting Palpatine have unrestricted access to a child

- their moral absolutism

like. the prequels and original trilogy explicitly portray the Jedi order as flawed like I'm concerned for people's media literacy.

[jadejedi]

My completely subjective and totally snarky ranking of every Star Wars show/movie I've seen:

For those who don't want to read all my explanations, here's my list, from best to worst:

ESB, TLJ, RotJ, TCW, Andor, ANH, TFA, Rebels, RotS, The Mandalorian, AotC, TPM, Rogue One, Ahsoka, TRoS, Solo

Empire Strikes Back: My favorite movie of all time. A fantastic sequel that really opens the world in very cool and interesting ways. So many iconic moments and one of the best twists in movie history.

The Last Jedi: Come at me, bro. Rian Johnson took JJ Abram's mystery box set up from TFA and said "hey what if I don't do the most obvious thing at every turn and actually try to do something interesting here?" The pacing struggles in places, but I love so much of what he did with that movie and that he actually used this movie to say something interesting, unlike the rest of the sequel trilogy.

Return of the Jedi: I love a happy ending, what can I say? I love the final scene, even with of George Lucas's additions and changes. I am young enough that I have a lot more nostalgia for Hayden Christensen's Anakin than for the origian Force Ghost Anakin, so I love that change in particular. I love everything about Luke on the 2nd Death Star. So many fantastic character moments for him.

The Clone Wars: For simplicity's sake, I'm just going to lump the movie in with the show. And to be honest, it really doesn't lower it's place in the standings at all. TCW is such a mixed bag that you have to cling to your favorites and ignore all the stuff you don't like. But the final like 2.5 seasons are absolute perfection. ESPECIALLY season 7 holy shit.

Andor: I have only seen season 1 so far; I am waiting to binge all of season 2 at once. Again, here's some Star Wars with something to say!! Does it have some pacing problems, especially at the beginning? Yes. Does it also have some absolutely incredible highs? Also yes. And some of the most poignantly emotional moments in the GFFA.

A New Hope: Some cheesy dialogue and peak whiny Luke, but overall such a perfect intro into the saga. So many iconic moments and lines. Anyone who tries to introduce new people to the saga at any other movie is WRONG!!

The Force Awakens: This has dropped significantly since it came out, now that I have seen the results of Abrams's mystery box approach. Watching it now with the lens of "oh there is *no plan* for any of this", really dampens the enjoyment. But I still love Rey's introduction and really all of the characters and their interactions. And some excellent music on the soundtrack as always.

Rebels: This show is in someways geared to a slightly younger audience than much of TCW, but still has a good story with EXCELLENT, TOP TIER characters. Sure, it has inquisitors using their lightsabers as helicopters, but it also has the second best redemption arc in all of Star Wars (yeah, I said it! and I meant it!) and the absolutely SIZZLING tension of whatever the hell was going on between Kanan and Hera.

Revenge of the Sith: The best of the prequels. The most coherent and understandable both in terms of plot and message. Some iconic fight scenes, some great music, and the banger line, "So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause."

The Mandalorian: Another real mixed bag, but instead of being bad in interesting ways, the later seasons are just bad in boring ways. But season 1 and parts of season 2 are truly excellent. When it's at its best, it's a show that recognizing the power of simple emotional connections. At its worst, it's a meandering mess.

Attack of the Clones: Some great moments here, such as the arena battle, Dooku's attempt to seduce Obi-wan to the Dark Side, and just witnessing the Republic's slow slide into imperialism. Also a lot of not good stuff. A lot of very wooden dialogue that the actors struggle to deliver in a believable way, as well as some story beats that are difficult to follow, even as a mega fan who has seen all the shows and such.

The Phantom Menace: Again, George Lucas was really trying to do and say something interesting here with this set up, but he couldn't balance this story of political machinations with the comedic tone he seemed to want to take with Jar-Jar and all the poop jokes. Really, Threepio is enough comic relief for these movies. We don't need another comic relief character.

Rogue One: Maybe my second hottest take after having TLJ as number 2. I think this is a bad movie! Is is maybe more competently made in a very technical sense than the prequels? Sure! Is the characterization absolute stinky garbage, which is kind of a problem for a movie whose main draw is its cast of characters? Also yes! Like, who is Jyn Erso? Is she a rebel? Is she a selfish loner? Is she someone who cares about the cause? Is she someone who needs to learn to care about the cause? It depends entirely on what the plot requires in a given moment. And there really just isn't much of anything to any of the other characters either. Cassian is lucky that Andor has done so much for his character because that movie certainly didn't.

Ahoska: So boring I couldn't finish the final episode. Oops. But also it didn't do anything egregious, so I won't put it lower than this. Also, having MY WIFE, Hera Syndulla, basically gets you infinity points forever.

The Rise of Skywalker: There is maybe 30 minute of this movie I enjoyed. That part in the middle when Kylo Ren is faced with the ghost of his father? Yeah, I liked that part. The rest? Laughably bad. I literally laughed out loud multiple times in the theaters at how bad this movie is. Rey Palpatine sucks, and Rey Skywalker is also dumb. Rey isn't important because of who she's connected to, but because of who she IS!!! I honestly didn't get this myself until TLJ, but yeah. I believe it very strongly.

Solo: And here it is, people. The worst piece of Star Wars media my eyes have ever been forced to behold. This movie can't even be bothered to be bad in funny, interesting ways, and instead is just bad in boring ways. Because it is deeply, incredibly boring. The only good scene in that movie is the end scene where Lando and Han eye fuck over the sabaac table. I would watch The Phantom Menace every day of my goddamn life if it meant I didn't have to watch this movie ever again.

[piglet26]

Alright, Is the Star Wars Fandom Sexist?

As you probably know Daisy Ridley signed onto do another Star Wars film. I welcomed this..... mostly. If they don't reunited the Dyad I'm very curious as to what would be the point (more on that later.) Well, I saw this quote from a recent interview of hers, "I think my take is things get blown out of proportion and the interactions I've ever had with people have been nothing but wonderful and supportive," Ridley said. "I've only ever been embraced. And I think we're going to make a great film."

Now whether or not Ms. Ridley actually feels this way.......she's intelligent enough to say just this. Undeniably, all of the men who have talked shit about her for the past 7,8 odd years will now have softened to her for simply not holding them accountable. Hey, that's the biz kids. Don't make enemies out of your audience. No man wants to be called a sexist even if he actually is one.

Is there sexism in Star Wars? Yes and no. It has never been a straight answer. Now if you ask a lot of men in the Star Wars fandom if they are sexist..... they'll say no. Why? Princess Leia of course! Padme! Strong women who directed men, issued orders and politically led. They did and do support these women. In fact, if you had asked me if the fandom was sexist prior to The Sequel Trilogy I would've said that the SWF is one of the most progressive fandoms for women and has been since the 70s!

Where did it all go wrong?

Well, maybe this

Or, this

Maybe just good ole fashion paranoia. Personally, I think it's a combination of all three. The minute Disney bought Star Wars the fandom was primed to distrust it. Change, for better or worse, was on the horizon. Hell, even worse, corporate change. It's Rage against the Machine raging FOR the machine. Least we forget how Star Wars started...... as a "fuck you" to corporatized assembly-line movie production.

However, we are not her to discuss whether The Sequel Trilogy was good. Debatable..... with the exception of Reylo. That's just iconic. We are here to discuss how on earth Daisy Ridley ending up bearing the majority of the responsibility for its failures. Maybe even more importantly the "Feminization" of Star Wars.

A sane person could tell that. The same people screaming "Star Wars is Dead" for the last seven years are still saying the eulogy. Still going on whining and complaining about it. There is a general rule when franchise start to go off the track - you ignore it was ever made. Godfather 3? Tokyo Drift? Never happened.

If you don't like what Star Wars has become then the first person on your shit list should be it's creator. George Lucas. George could've signed over Star Wars under the guarantee that whatever outline he produced for The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy, Disney HAD to stick to - he didn't. He could've signed on a producer - he didn't. He could've picked someone else except Kathleen Kennedy to replace him - he didn't. Somehow George Lucas has escaped any responsibility in what his life's work has become. Maybe the fandom got it out of their system after the Prequel Road Rage.

News that George Lucas's treatments were thrown out and the extended universe being cancelled didn't exactly calm down the public.

Maybe the next person should JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy for for thinking that there was something wrong with Star Wars. Star Wars already was diverse. It already HAD strong females. Yet, there they went finding problems that didn't exist. Why? Money. Disney has a powerful female/family demographic. Star Wars a strong male demographic. Disney sought to combine the best of all worlds in one franchise and they were the company to do it. Look at what they accomplished with Marvel!

Then the announcement came that there would be a female protagonist. A female Jedi to be exact. I thought this was different and interesting. The men did not. What they saw in there head was THE FORCE IS FEMALE in flashing bright lights. This was it. Confirmation. Star Wars was about to get pussyfied. From the get-go Daisy Ridley's Rey was to be a focus, a target, for the mistrust, uneasiness and rage from the men.

Let's me be clear men are ok girls liking their stuff. As long as girls are not in a position to influence whatever it is they like, or rather "ruin it." Can you blame them? If a bunch of straight dudes came in and started writing Sex and the City I'm telling you- they'd ruin it.

The Force Awakens finally arrives and curiosity was able to lure in even the most salty man. Not to mention the possible joy of seeing Han, Luke and Leia on screen together again. TFA is a perfectly decent film. There were two glaring choices in this film. One, Han is killed. Two, Rey beats Kylo Ren at the end. All things considered we should not have been surprised what the internet had to say. Rey was a Mary Sue. Men who didn't even know what a Mary Sue was were even saying this.

The term “Mary Sue” was first coined in 1973. A young main character, usually a woman, who was portrayed as unreasonably gifted across every discipline: intellect, combat, the arts, etc. This character would often become respected (and maybe even loved) by main characters and would end the story by saving the day in heroic fashion.

You don't have to like Rey. You don't have to love her. Rey isn't even the greatest character ever developed, but come on! I wonderer if the people criticizing her even watched the movie. I heard criticism that Rey was too likable! Well, she's the protagonist. She's too pretty! That's a bad thing? She's too nice! She comes off really brash and naive actually. She's the greatest pilot ever! She flew once and not that well. Most of the criticism around Rey was disingenuous and petty as hell.

Many critics have taken the lazy route of she has no character arc or character, but that’s not a very observant take. Her yearning for family and her desperation for her parents to return, while understandable, made her vulnerable to Kylo Ren. Her loneliness made her ultimately vulnerable to anyone who would be nice to her. Now I understand there was no consequences for her faults. However, there can't be both criticism. She either doesn't have a personality, or, she has one, but doesn't suffer consequences for it.

“How could she fly the Millennium Falcon so well?” “How could she beat Kylo Ren when she’d never used a lightsaber before?” “How could she resist Kylo Ren’s interrogation?” The film answered most of these questions. Ironically, no one questioned the 8 year old Anakin Skywalker or the farm boy Luke Skywalker for being amazing or great at anything because of The Force.

She grew up defending herself in melee combat. Her quarterstaff is not a lightsaber, of course, but it was established early on that she has the instincts and the reflexes to hold her own in a fight. While I don't agree with Rey beating Kylo Ren I understand how it was accomplished. Pure, dumb luck. It was luck that Ren was physically and spiritually crippled during their confrontation. Not to mention he had the hots for you. Finn was able to hold him off mostly because Kylo was toying with him, but when he grew bored Finn ended up face first in the snow. No one questioned how Finn the janitor could wield a lightsaber.

Let's talk about Finn, or rather John Boyega. All things considered pretty lucky guy. He got a likable that he played well and got paid well. You wouldn't know it by listening to him. He complained bitterly. He attacked the fans. He attacked Disney. He attacked America. He got off Scott free with fandom. Most remember him with nothing but fondness. Maybe because he is black people feel slightly uncomfortable going after him. But, the women? No problem. Even when fans hate male characters, they talk about what they hate with nuance.

Daisy Ridley did her job and she went home. She carried on beautifully and respectfully with what she was given by the production team. That is all any actor can do. The same would apply to the girl who played Rose Tico. Yet, criticism of what was happening on screen started to bleed onto the actresses in real life.

Mark Hamill shit talked the Sequel Trilogy - fair, enough. But why did you sign on? It he because he needed a job? Hondo wasn't a great leader. I agree. But, countless people ended up losing their lives due to Poe because he refused to listen to the female authority around him. Where was the fandom with their logic bitterness scorecard? The majority of the criticism I heard (Literally several videos on Youtube) was criticism towards Hondo for not telling a newly demoted soldier all of her plans.

Anywho Rey has this new movie coming out...........okay. Not sure who wants to come back for it other than her. After TROS and the fans most co-stars seem good doing other things. OG characters are killed off. There is one person with stunning jet black hair, 6'3, plush naturally red lips, a big dick, freckles and a heroic run that she's in a dyad with that would make this whole movie worth it. Do I faith they'll do the right thing and pay Adam Driver whatever they need to to bring him back? No. Cause there is a little bit of an agenda. For some reason love in the Star Wars universe doesn't do very well, but for the woman it's none existent. The concept that a strong woman doesn't have to die alone seems odd to the very people that want equality for women. For example I saw this comment, "Rey Skywalker is her own character and her continuing story doesn’t have to revolve around Ben Solo. Daisy Ridley’s return shouldn’t be overshadowed by fan expectation over Adam Driver returning."

Yes, it does. This film needs to work. I cannot stress that enough. You know people want to see this film fail. Reylo isn't purely for sentimental reasons (I WOULD SEE MY DYAD REUNITED FOUR TIMES IN THEATRES) Reylo is the biggest marketing advantage Disney Star Wars has..... you knew that when Solo flopped. Do the smart thing, put these people on mute and give us a iconic fight fuck scene.

Rey also wear clothes appropriate with her environment and match the physical needs of what she needs to accomplish like her male peers. Logical and refreshing. I hear the men mostly complain about the lack of hot women in their fantasy.

We could also talk about the sexism Carrie Fisher faced from the not only the studio, but the fandom for the crime of getting older and gaining weight. Her in a metal bikini is already in the spank bank - she contributed enough.

Again, neither Carrie Fisher nor Daisy Ridley in a smart world could ever really own that. Anymore than the Rose Tico actress could. Worse, they could never really tell the Fanboys what they really think of them. I love me some Fanboys, I do, but they aren't a perfect group of people. They just criticism everyone's work like they are. We're suppose to ignore the giant dump they take on anything and everything that comes out. I genuinely think the people beyond The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy sought out to create a great story. To honor what came before. In many respect they did. They aren't George Lucas though.

There is legitimate criticism towards Disney for how it has handled the Star Wars franchise. Currently it can't exactly be be described as quality over quantity. The writers seem like they are writing for early 00s Disney Channel rather a complex space political fairytale. Characterization has not been wonderful. Again, it's not simple. While Disney has not steered the ship perfectly. I would argue there was an audience sitting in ill will and waiting to be disappointment.