#the incest subtext writes itself

[spn2006]

remember how often they’d make jokes about dean being in love with his car and then they did an episode where sam was his car. what was that about

[inlovewithl3vi]

To the Anon who was asking about incest ships: another reason why incest ships are popular in the OM fandom specifically is because of how much canon material already supports it. It's natural for fans to extrapolate canon stuff from the games + fanon/headcanons for stuff like ships, and the games literally hand us so much incest on a silver platter. Asmo is the biggest example (he has hit on every single one of his brothers multiple times, he flirts with his brothers regularly, and has openly talked about how badly he wants to bang them all) but there's lots of canon incest subtext (and straight up explicit text, lol) from basically all the brothers. Lucifer and Mammon have a very blatant BDSM Dom/Sub thing going on, that the other characters have directly referred to as being sexual more than once. Satan also has an explicitly psychosexual obsession with Lucifer, with canon material in the game AND the official manga confirming that Satan has an Oedipus Complex (the "child who wants to fuck their parent" syndrome) and the characters literally say the exact words "Oedipus Complex" making it completely unambiguous. Beel and Belphie also have a lot of very heavy twincest stuff going on. Basically what I'm saying is, when the kitchen is serving incest on the menu, don't be surprised when incest fans show up to eat!

You’re so right!!!!

I mean they are literally handing us incest content, of course I’m gonna take it.

Mammon and Lucifer literally had some type of thing going on since the very first lesson in the og game (or at least I think so personally) when mammon shows up and Lucifer straight up hits him before he gets a chance to talk.

And of course there’s times when the game literally feeds into the incest thing, especially with Asmo. There’s many times when he tries to get a little freaky with his brothers, and they don’t even harshly reject him or anything they’re basically just like “not right now.” That definitely is not normal.

And also mammon and Levi’s thing. I know they don’t have much in cannon that specifically says anything with incest, but personally I think they definitely have something going on

Not to mention Satan and Lucifer. I knew they had something going on since I first played the game. Though, I never knew Satan has an Oedipus Complex. But that just feeds into the incest content more! (That does remind me that I have to write something for them) Satan and Lucifer have always been one of my favorite pairs, especially now that I know Satan canonically wants to fuck Lucifer. Their relationship is definitely different from the other brothers, especially since Satan came from Lucifer. And tbh I think it’s even better with the knowledge that Satan really wants to fuck Lucifer.

Anyway, the actual game has been feeding into the whole incest thing a lot and most people choose to ignore it. But I think we all have to realize that having incest in the obey me community really isn’t that weird, mostly since the game itself basically has incest in it.

[skylarsblue]

★Rules & Links★

☆Characters I Write For ☆Masterlist One ☆Masterlist Two

Border by @v6que

☆Yes☆ ⭑Fluff, NSFW, Headcanons, Oneshots, etc. I can write angst, but I'm an escapist most of the time, so don't expect it too often/heavy. ⭑I don't like writing in a first person perspective, so, you'll likely see a "Y/N" in 'x reader' content. If you specifically request a POV, I'll try my best, but I warn you it might suffer in quality. ⭑My 'x readers' will be blank slates physically unless stated otherwise. (Ex; black!reader, fat!reader, AMAB!reader, female!reader, etc etc.) Note; I tend to write fem!readers. Not for any particular reason aside from me liking women. Women are hot. ⭑I'm fine writing most taboo topics, though subtext might change my want to write it. (Ex; I will write a character with a reference sexual assault if it's important to the story, such as trauma representation, I will not write the assault itself.) ⭑Examples of taboo subjects could be murder, gore, PTSD, mental illness, age gaps(WITHIN REASON), forbidden romances, religious imagery, monster characters, & SFW age/pet regression. If you're unsure if what you want falls into the 'yes' category, just ask. ★Note; If you suggest something with a character/self-insert that has a mental illness or culture that I don't understand, I'll try my best to research it properly and honor it. But if I slip up in anyway and make an inaccurate assessment, let me know! I wanna make sure my work is relatable and representative, not innacurate.

☆No☆ ⭑While I can maybe get behind consensual noncon or dubcon, I will never write a rape scene. Ever. If a sexual assault is important to a character's story, I'll imply or mention it, but you will not get me writing out the act. ⭑Incest, Pedophilia, Necrophilia, Racism, & Beastiality have no place on my blog. ⭑Age Play is a no. I'll do a corruption kink,I'll write a power play dynamic, I'll even do a daddy/mommy kink. You will not see me lewding things like coloring books and pacifiers. ⭑Cheating is also a no. The only loophole is if it's in the past or on an abusive partner. My reasoning? It makes me too sad. ⭑Not really a hard no, just a preference; I don't write hinge poly relationships very well. Poly is perfectly fine, but unless they're all in love, it's a little uncomfortable for me. I won't outright turn it down, but I'll probably struggle on that kind of dynamic. ⭑Any kink with body fluid that isn't saliva, blood, or jizz is a huge no.

★Note; I have ADHD and find it really hard to fulfill requests if it doesn't pique an idea/interest in me. So, if I don't get to your request, I'm sorry. I promise I try, but I can't do much bout it, believe me. ★Note 2; if you aren't sure about your request and where it stands, you can still ask! I'm well aware that context and scenarios can make a request not quite fit the rules. If I outright don't wanna write something because it breaks a rule or makes me uncomfortable, I'll just tell you privately.

[lily-orchard-gossip-blog]

I don't want to fall into the trap of believing every negative rumour about someone just because I personally dislike them (and I have no personal investment in LO outside of clowning her bad takes and shitty writing lmao), and I'm also strongly of the opinion that just because someone reads/writes taboo topics in fiction doesn't mean they support them in reality (and you can easily be a shitty person without being an abuser/pedophile). I don't care about the fact that she wrote things like Stockholm years ago in and of itself, but both her denial of doing so despite proof, her blatant hypocrisy in preaching that fictional preferences = reality, as well as positioning herself as a 'safe' adult with an audience of predominantly minors to be really suspicious. And in the context of her sister's allegations I find the presence of weird incest subtext in almost everything she's written to my knowledge to be really strange. Like I said I have no way of knowing what the truth is but there's a saying "where there's smoke there's fire" and in this case there is a lot of smoke.

.

[schizochroal]

My gf has been having me watch supernatural with her for the past month (she's never had a Tumblr which idk is kinda funny to me) and I can definitely see why it spawned a fanbase (there is some sloppy writing and very obvious plot holes but it's generally well written for a show from it's time and has compelling characters and arcs, and it's also pleasantly sacrilegious and anti-cop so far) but also like. I can see why the fanbase it spawned was so fucking weird and messed up. They are very clearly aware of the fact that they write the main brothers more like a couple by mid way through season one, and by season 4-5 they seem to embrace and lean into this angle. They start to use the word "brother" the way the 90s sailor moon dub used the word "cousin" even when writing partnerships that aren't the leads. They go from occasionally making gay jokes to just using constant homoerotic subtext every time Sam and Dean talk about their relationship, and make Castiel seem like Dean's new fling. It's bizarre to see an American network tv show lean so heavily into an incest angle , especially gay incest, and everytime they acknowledge their awareness of it makes it seem even stranger. At the same time, they literally start writing their fanbase into the show , and mock them for seeing the very obvious subtext. Season 4 and 5 have numerous jokes aimed at "creepy and weird supernatural fans that ship together Sam and Dean" while at the same time constantly writing Sam and Dean like a couple. One episode even has cosplayers that play Sam and Dean being the first confirmed gay characters to live through an episode (they are a couple) and has Dean being very obviously uncomfortable with them being a couple, despite the fact that he has spent much of the last few episodes using extremely romantically charged language to describe the relationship he has between him and his brother. As someone that is not exactly particularly a fan of incestous romance (blegh) in order to watch the show I have to just pretend they aren't actually brothers. But like I also am bothered way more by the fact that the show seems to be hypocritically mocking its own fans for seeing what is obviously there than the actual incest itself. What a strange way to write a show, what a strange way to interact with your fanbase. I honestly struggle to see why they would write it this way? like maybe at some point it became a self-aware method of cultivating a fanbase , but in the first couple of seasons it was pretty obvious that they were desperately trying to appeal to a presumed straight male audience , and yet the incestous homoeroticism (and the self awareness about it ) was still obviously present.

[a-jar-of-jelly]

ok not really sure the best way to send an essay to a stranger on the internet, so I'm taking my friends idea of just pasting it under the read more

(also please forgive any errors etc, I'm still getting used to this whole "university" thing)

enjoy!

Queering People, Writing Things: The Fanfiction Business 

Archive of Our Own (“AO3”), is an online archive of transformative fiction, referred to as fanfiction, written about pre-existing media by fans of the works. A major fandom written about on AO3 is Supernatural. Running on the CW from 2005-2020, Supernatural follows brothers Sam and Dean Winchester, and eventually the angel Castiel, as they drive around the United States fighting supernatural creatures like vampires, demons, and God. Season 10 episode five, titled Fanfiction, follows the brothers on a hunt that brings them to a highschool’s musical production of Supernatural, an in-universe book series that depicts the events of the first five seasons of the show. The episode is quite self-effacing, poking fun at themselves, and elements of the fandom that tend to be points of conflict between fans and creators, including queerness within relationships, masculinity, and full plotlines. Collectively, AO3 and the episode Fanfiction represent Stuart Hall’s definition of popular conflict in reference to conflict between classes. 

Stuart Hall defines popular culture as “a continuing tension (relationship, influence and antagonism) to the dominant culture.” (4). It is in this context of conflict and struggle that Supernatural and AO3 fanfiction find their ground. A common occurrence of conflict occurs in differences between encoded and decoded information. Many aspects of meaning that are read in media come from messages encoded into the show. Viewers are then able to untangle the messages and decide for themselves how to respond to them. The decoding process can result in different interpretations based on a person's agreement with messages being sent, assuming they decode them correctly. Typically fanfiction will fall into a negotiated or oppositional position in reference to canonical content, in which viewers understand the message yet only partially accept it, or understand it and reject it altogether (Weinstock). These instances of critical evaluation can cause the message sender, in this case the creators of the show,  to become frustrated when their message is not interpreted the way they want it to, represented in Fanfiction by Dean, rather derogatorily describing the musical as being fanfiction (11:35). Despite this, the show itself deals with the idea of “subtext” as a recurring theme, particularly within the episode Fanfiction. The concept of subtext refers to connotative meanings within words or situations; the meanings that are implied without being outright stated (Mirriam-Webster). Subtext is often cited as proof for non-canonical relationships, and is brought up by the writer of Supernatural: The Musical, Marie, in reference to both the Wincest (Winchester incest, between Sam and Dean) and Destiel (Dean and Castiel) ships, delivering the iconic line “Oh, it's just subtext! But, then again, you know, you can't spell subtext without.... s-e-x.” (13:43-13:15). In these types of moments the creators do acknowledge that there are additional meanings embedded within episodes, yet they do it in such a way that suggests they are still upset about viewers picking up on it, as Dean immediately delivers a disapproving stare into the camera (13:54). The same episode also addresses other elements of fan culture that are often written about in fanfiction, such as why Dean stopped wearing the “Samulet”  (a necklace given to Dean by Sam when they were children) despite it being “a symbol of the Winchester’s brotherly love” (1:07-1:10). The canonical plotline involves a major rift in their relationship that culminates in Dean throwing it away, which most viewers were not pleased with. It was later revealed that the true reason it was written out of the show was because it kept swinging up and hitting Jensen Ackles (Dean Winchester) in the face , which is referenced in Fanfiction in an exchange between Marie and Siobhan, the actress playing Dean in the musical (Wiki) (1:05). It is clear in these events of back and forth ideas that the creators and fans are both battling each other for dominance over certain ideas. 

Certain genres, such as “fix-it fics'' inherently rely on an oppositional approach to the canonical content. Quite literally, the fic is saying that there is something wrong with the original piece, and providing an alternative solution.  Authors will regularly tag, or describe works with sentiments of dislike of canon. For example the fic Holding of Hands/Breaking of Glass by icaruspendragon uses the tag “Because Canon is Stupid And My Ideas Are Better”. Most often these are in reference to unsatisfactory endings, or individual plotlines that viewers felt were handled poorly, though they can be in reference to just about anything within canon. As Marie points out in Fanfiction, the Samulet is an important symbol of the brothers' relationship, and it being written out of the story caused many fans to get upset. As such, “Samulet fix-it” fics have made the rounds on AO3, as viewers attempt to correct what they feel is a deep grievance on the part of the writers.

Supernatural, as a representative of the dominant class, works to maintain and normalize certain ideals, typically surrounding ideas of masculinity and heteronormativity, which often are rejected by the viewers who find that they don’t align with their own wants and needs. Fanfiction points out these habits in the song “A Single Man Tear”, in which Sam and Dean describe Dean’s tendencies to “bury feelings, don’t show [he] care[s]” in order to conform to traditional ideals of masculinity (33:45-33:50). Conversely, fanfiction has no such qualms about maintaining social order in dominant social settings, and often challenges ideals of gender and sexuality. A dominant way that gender is played with within Supernatural fanfiction is the concept of omegaverse. Omegaverse is a particular version of an Alternate Universe in which humans are divided into categories, referred to as sub-genders, of alpha, beta, and omega, based on biological factors. These biological elements were inspired by certain elements of wolf biology, where people possess qualities such as knots, ruts, and heats. The universe typically involves hierarchical aspects, with alphas at the top, betas in the middle, and omegas at the bottom (fanlore). Due to the elements of sub-genders overriding the standard gender assignment provide large alterations in gender presentation and gender roles within society. For example, Dean is commonly headcannoned as being an omega, typically soft, caring, submissive, and breedable, despite canonically being extremely strong, tough, and a cis man. The omegaverse provides a simple precedent for gender roles that lie outside typical roles within reality, allowing readers and writers to more freely explore topics in a way that does not have the same emotional ramifications as more realistic fics. However by normalizing various non-traditional forms of gender roles, omegaverse fanfiction challenges typical ideas of gender presented by, and maintained by the dominant class, and creators of Supernatural. While not referencing omegaverse specifically, Fanfiction does make brief reference to non-cis Dean headcannons within the musical in a conversation with Dean, saying  “And then, Dean becomes a woman. It's just for a few scenes!” (12:10-12:15). However Dean provides a look of disgust at the concept, once again shaming the fandom for their desires. 

Similarly, omegaverse ties into ideas of fanfiction exploring topics that are considered taboo in general culture, as well to the dominant class and the show's creators. As such, these topics are embraced by lower classes as a form of rebellion against the dominant class. Another commonly explored taboo topic is that of incest, specifically that of the relationship between Sam and Dean. Wincest appears in Fanfiction in similar contexts to Destiel; it is subtextually represented in Supernatural: The Musical, and quite disliked by Dean when he finds out. While watching the actors playing Sam and Dean rehearse a scene, Dean asks Marie about the scene, where she describes it rather romantically, ending with “The two of them. Alone. But together. Bonded. United. The power of the brotherly-”. Dean then cuts her off by asking “Why are they standing so close together?”, and later “You know they're brothers, right?”. Marie then responds with “Well, duh ! But... subtext” (9:40-9:50). Once again, the show directly responds to elements of fanfiction that it doesn’t approve of, after many seasons of back and forth with the fans in the Supernatural book series. Despite this obvious disapproval, Wincest fanfiction continues to be written, with over 30 000 fics tagged on AO3 (AO3). The popularity of taboo subjects gives a level of power to the viewers that they don’t typically have as subjects of the dominant class. 

Supernatural’s episode Fanfiction represents the interests of the fandom in conflict between fans and the creators of the show. In conflict between classes, Archive of Our Own allows fans to express themselves and their opinions on media, which in the context of Supernatural, periodically get noticed and incorporated into canon. While the show works to maintain current social order in terms of gender roles and sexuality, fanfiction works to challenge those ideals in order to create atmospheres more representative of themselves. 

hello hello!

I hope you are having a wonderful december first.

I thought you might be interested to hear that I cited one of your fics in an essay I'm writing for uni on fanfiction and Supernatural (and, regretfully, omegaverse).

I'm about to hand it in and force my ~70yr old, very grandpa vibes tutorial instructor to learn about omegaverse so I do hope you are pleased

hi yes i’m very interested and would love to read your essay if you’d let me 🥹🥹

[linkspooky]

Yo yo yo!

Love ya analysis on JJK especially with Mai and Maki.

And I’ve also really like ya fox, Werewolf, too! It scratched my itch of wanting Nobara, Mai, and Maki taking a mission together with the focus being Mai and her complicated feelings/relationship with Maki. And I believe ya did that well in that fic! I really enjoyed it! I even cried a couple tears at some moments too ;v;

But Anywayyyy… Onwards to the question I have for you!

This is sort of an old topic, but I was wonder what was your interpretation for Naoya’s line in Ch. 194. It happened in the beginning of the chapter where, iirc… Naoya is over Maki, and saying something about this sort of thing is only what adults do. And Maki snarks back by saying “when you were a child?” In which Naoya’s reply was something like “I don’t know, why don’t we ask Mai.”

The reason why I brought this up was because when this chapter was released, there are a couple of different interpretations for that scene. One being that Naoya is mocking Mai’s death for she will never be an adult since she died at the age of 16 (damn, I keep forgetting that these guys are just kids…).

And the other interpretation… being much darker. And this interpretation was also pretty common in the Japanese side of the JJK fandom too, to my surprise.

I mean. I can definitely see the darker interpretation being possible, but that definitely makes things more sad and tragic for Mai if that what really happened.

So I was wondering what was your initial interpretation when reading that, and what are your opinions on the darker interpretation of that scene?

Thank you for the question!

I love the Jujutsu Kaisen girls, especially the dynamic between Nobara and Mai and Maki. While no really explored in canon due to time constraints i feel like they have a lot of potential to be explored in fanfiction in fan materials that epxand upon what canon has given us. I'm really glad you enjoyed my interpretation of the three characters. I'm planning on writing more Nobara / Mai / Maki fanfic in the future that explores the relationships between the three of them to look forward too.

But also as to your question, this is touching upon the icky subtext of Jujutsu Kaisen so I will answer this underneath the cut. Also, this is very much a Dead Dove do not Eat situation, so if you don't want to read anything related to this subtext in Jujutsu Kaisen just don't read underneath the readmore cut.

Okay, so I'm going to take this question in good faith and discuss it, please don't call me problematic I'm only trying to answer a question that someone else asked me.

Do I think that Gege was implying that Naoya sexually assautled Mai with his statement during the fight against Maki when he told her she should ask Mai if she ever became an adult.

My very educated answer to this question is a "Maaaaaaybe...???". Basically, my answer is yes and no. Before I say anything else, Gege does in fact make use of incest subtext in Jujutsu Kaisen, To say there's no mention of incest in the text itself is just, not accurate.

In chapter 96 there's a pretty clear example of father daughter incest...

In chapter 133, Gege draws Mei Mei and her younger brother Ui Ui in the same bed, and later on it's confirmed in a databook that the two of them are blood related. This and Ui Ui's obsession with his older brother seem to imply that Mei Mei is grooming her brother in order to make her Jujutsu Technique stronger.

So, it's not like Gege has shied away from an incest subtext before. We've even seen incest subtext used in conjunction with the Zenin clan members, Naoya mentions that Mai and Maki have an attractive buxom and appraises them on their physical attractiveness.

Maki mentions she thought Naoya only looked at women's asses which is obviously a very sexually charged statement and we also know that Naoya physically abused Maki in the past.

So, did Naoya sexually abuse Mai. Once again I answer with a noncomittal. MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE.

Let me elaborate. Do I think Mai shows signs of being a CSA victim? Well, yes. She's a little bit hypersexual when dealing with people, associates sexuality with violence, and also there's a heavy lesbian subtext to her character both in the omake and also in her interactions with Nobara, and also the story goes at length to establish Mai has suffered abuse due to being a woman in her clan. You could make a case for Mai being a CSA vctim.

However, I also want to bring up that it would be very insensitive on Gege's part to bring up Mai as a CSA victim, and then not only not give her any kind of resolution or chance to heal from her trauma, but also to kill her off and have her effectively commit suicide because she believes her dream of becoming a normal girl completely impossible.

SO yes, I think Naoya could possibly be referring to a very dark kind of implciation with Mai, but I choose to in good faith believe that Naoya was just talking about Mai dying early before she ever became an adult, because otherwise I think writing Mai as a CSA victim who died tragically is a pretty insensitive thing to do to other victims. That is my take, I answered this question in good faith so please don't yell at me.

[gascon-en-exil]

Welp, looks like the Khalidstans have realized that 3H isn't the only FE game to have things they find morally objectionable with the Jugdral incest. Is that going to stop their performative moralist behavior? Personally, I don't think so but it is kinda funny to see them pop their monocles.

Of course it isn't. If the incest, sexism, racism, etc. of FE games actually offended them as much as they claim it does, they wouldn't be giving IS money (the ones who actually play the games, that is) or giving their properties exposure on social media.

It's incredibly obvious that IS doesn't especially care about toning down the series's less tasteful elements, not when they take every opportunity to bring stuff like that up in Heroes. Just last month I saw some discourse over the new Sothe alt having lines that are all about Micaiah, his girlfriend and surrogate mother/sister...and before that everyone was a pedophile because summer Claude is too young-looking...and before that I believe there was something about spring Maria being loli fetish bait. IS doesn't care, and the fandom is at best indifferent and at worst openly mocking of that sort of mentality when we've collectively known since 2003 or so that FE is just Like That.

To be fair FE antis first emerged when Fates was current (and the precursor of that mindset was around during Awakening concerning characters like Nowi and Tharja), but because the discourse surrounding that game was and still remains generally negative their complaints about it being an incest-based dating sim were lost in the sea of everything else people criticize Fates for. I assume that Echoes turning Clair into a Lachesis archetype and adding Conrad apparently for no other reason except incest subtext also flew under the radar with that game's much more serious issues of misogynistic writing - and also fandom just...not caring very much about Echoes for more than like two months. It was with Three Houses though that the fandom splitting itself into factions and generating all manner of wank from all sides that FE antis became more of a distinctive entity, which is probably part of why they're turning their criticisms to older games now that the usual Houses/Hopes battles - Dimigard, Rhealeth and Rhea in general, Dimiclaude sometimes - are virtually exhausted.

[shieldofrohan]

Your posts are once in a blue moon and thanks for dragging our old American grandpa Grrm . I understand D&D are idiots but the fandom's incessant urge to placate Grrm as an emblem of wokeness when some of his stuff scream problematic and how what he tells in interviews is contrasted with what he writes makes me roll my eyes . The only difference is D&D are idiots whereas Grrm is sharp but also oblivious . Btw he shouldn't have released that Targie book . It's so badly written and I hope that the writing and plotting doesn't end up rubbing somehow on Twow if it ever gets released . Also thank you for dragging Ned . Idk whether you are aware of recent fandom wank but apparently Sansa stans are gatekeeping the fandom just because we happen to criticize fandom favorites . Also love love love your no nonsense idgaf butt kicking attitude . Stay safe .

Hello Anon,

Wow thanks for your kind words, your message made my day :)

Previous asks about this:

X1

X2

X3

One time I wrote this on Twitter:

The problem with not being able to finish a series for 25 years is that your audience & what that audience was looking for in that story change in time. In the end the story you started to write might not meet the expectations. Especially if you aren’t writing a timeless series (~lotr).

This is why I believe that Martin is doomed to finish an outdated series which will never satisfy the readers/critics truly. Racist/sexist undertones & other problematic aspects of these books might have been overlooked in 90s/00s but they will be considered huge problems in 20s.

I love Grrm as a writer because man has a style and courage. Yes sometimes he is edgy but he also has the talent. His magic in writing shows itself in small details, creating characters, plot setting (foreshadowings) and subverting expectations but sometimes he pushes the edge a little too much to create those magic/to show his talent.

For example; whole Unkiss subtext is a smart way to show trauma but on the other hand hiding trauma in subtext is problematic.

Another example: Cersei/Dany turning into their awful husbands. A complex characterization but still problematic.

Another example: Not giving an anti-T*rg POV in the books, it hides the villain status of Dany and other T*rgs but also it is problematic.

I think he could have earned my respect even more if he just could own the fact that he created a typical but nuanced White Savior with Dany. Whitewashing her arc/story makes me think that is this man so oblivious to his own story? (Also yes sometimes what he says and he writes doesn't match) And at this point I have to believe that his old age and him being an American might make him oblivious. Not a crime but people might drag him for this.

Btw I also think that people blame D&D a lot to make Grrm a victim but show was always a cheap copy of the books and characters even when George was involved. As a Sansa fan, I hated most of the scripts of first 4 seasons so I don't think D&D were the only ones to blame. And people (I used to too) blame D&D for not having Arianne, Aegon etc in the show but it seems to me that George wasn't even able to give many details about main characters so I doubt that he could have given enough material about Arianne, Aegon, Connington, Victarion etc to create a full story. He really should have finished his books LONG AGO.

In my opinion, having a TV show before finishing the books was a huge mistake.

AND it feels like he learnt his lesson. LOOK at him finishing F&B book so fast... The most unnecessary book in the history of literature. Twoiaf was more than enough for DoD story but he still wants HBO's money. Sorry but he lost my respect a lot after that book.

That book was unnecessary, writing was awful and what was the reason? And I am afraid that they will make T*rgs look like cool but poor guys and the world doesn't need to feel sth for white ugly slavers, nuke lovers, incest f*ckers, imperialist sh*ts with god complex.

T*rgs fans behave like a cult for a reason. Tell me, are we not dealing with enough bad guys who see themselves superior right know all around world? Why are they making more shows about such risky characters? This is a bad idea but it is what it is. People are tend to worship such characters and stories and I find this scary. But Georgie loves money. Whatever. Zero respect.

Ok I am in this fandom since 2012 (? was active in 2014-2016 and later in 2019-) and tbf I used to talk shit about many fan favorites and yeah their fans would be angry but they wouldn't go rabid and start massive bullying chains so I think social media encourages people to have a cult mentality and it ruins everything.

You as a fan should decide what kind of fandom experience you want to have and you should try to create your own safe corner without touching the toxic side.

Thank you so much for your kind words again.

Have a nice day and stay safe.

[whetstonefires]

The sad Jason art you reblogged, the original artist is a rampant JayTim shipper fyi 🤢

Okay, listen. I cannot figure out why you would send this. What purpose is this supposed to serve? Who are you helping? What is the desired result?

Like, sure I don’t enjoy that ship and I really wish it were less prominent, because it makes so many potentially interesting fics unreadable for me, but it’s far and away the most innocuous of the intra-family ships.

(Followed by either of them with Cass ig since Steph doesn’t strictly count. Or Duke, but like DC deeply failed to integrate him into the family network. Actually is anyone writing Duke/Tim, there’s space to do some fun work there with the idealization-of-and-identification-with-Robin-as-wearable-identity.)

It’s not like anyone is being depicted Committing Sex Crime here, or like there’s an existing familial dynamic to be getting corrupted. Or even a firmly ingrained power dynamic. They’re about three years apart in age and didn’t even meet until their late teens? I don’t like the adopted sibling incest angle even in that context, but I can’t pretend that part is actually inherently hurting either of them, except by complicating things with their support systems and intensifying the baggage.

The reason I find the ship so intolerable is they have so much baggage between them, adopted family very much included, even before you start on shit they’ve actually done to each other, that to jump straight into the premise you have to go either wildly AU or wildly ooc (very frequently both) to sell them having a remotely sane or healthy romance, let alone at all a normal one.

The AU version tends to make them hopelessly boring by flattening every existing element of complexity to avoid Problems and the ooc option both boring and vaguely revolting to my personal sensibilities, because I have issues about people’s characters being warped around the demands of romantic relationships, and especially about the result being treated as positive. Those things on top of the sibling thing is a definite hard no.

...I feel like the only way to get me actually interested in a JayTim premise would actually be to lean in to all that shared baggage and dysfunction, and depict the relationship as a downhill tumble of mutual projection and trying to process their own Robin-related-identity-smear issues and overlapping parent issues using one another, ‘self-recognition through the other (derogatory)’ angry makeouts, and all that unhealthy stuff, made even more fucked up by their canonical existing tangled respect for and resentment of one another.

All that, if well executed, could be really intriguing! And could even potentially sell me on the ‘ship as ultimately positive in the end, because the narrative would at that point have put in the work to make the relationship a vehicle for character development.

As far as I know, though, that is not what the shipping community for these two is looking for at all, ever. And I'm not going to subject myself to a million versions because one of them might be tolerable.

So, I know this is something I dislike! On every level! I avoid it! I have, in fact, ended acquaintanceships with people because they could not consistently remember to respect clearly delineated boundaries about it, because they’d internalized the ship as a baseline norm of batfam fandom. Don’t like that.

But like. What possible purpose could it serve to warn me that someone whose reposted-and-reunited art I reblogged ships this thing? What is that adding to the world? Is this supposed to be helpful to me in some way?

I’m not entering into a longterm or intimate relationship with this person whose name I don’t recall. I’m not interacting with them. I didn’t even reblog a post original to them or directly from their blog. The JayTim ship is not relevant to the art in question, which was a depiction of Jason speaking to Bruce (not pictured).

Even if the artist were a JayBruce shipper and there was some relevance, I’m not clear on what you think you would be accomplishing by informing me there might be secret bad subtext to an art I reblogged!

Like. State your goals here, don’t just end your statement with a 'mouthful of vomit' emoji, which incidentally is somewhat more triggering for some issues I’ve been working on than the JayTim ship itself, because guess what people are complicated.

Is your goal to get me to comb through my blog to remove the post? To go memorize the url so I know to avoid this person in the future? To blacklist them???

What even is rampant in this context anyway. Just. Lacking in restraint? The boundary-disrespecting issue I mentioned before? Just...doing it a lot? Do you mean it in the heraldic sense of ‘standing up on their hindquarters for dramatic effect?’

Be specific. Explain why you are inflicting this subject on me in the correct presumption it’s a subject I like to avoid. Why does that make sense?

I’m not interested in being roped into whatever weird playground politics drama this is, okay? Jeez louise.

[cor-ardens-archive]

hello! do you happen to know if any of your old Lake Mungo posts are floating around/could you point me to people who might have interacted with them so I can try to track them down on another blog? sorry this isn’t more specific, it’s just that I recently rewatched the film and wanted to reread some of your thoughts on it.

no worries if it’s a hassle, I just thought you might know where I could look!

PS - sending thoughts of peace and healing re: the situation with your aneurysm <3

I looked but couldn't find it anywhere to reblog. But I do have those posts saved, I just don't think they're very good... I stand behind my opinions but they're badly worded. I found one of them, I think it covers pretty much everything. Text under the cut.

Anonymous: < saw u said there was some incest subtext in lake mungo a while back could you talk more about that? it&rsquo;s something about the story I never considered before

Yes! I think the incest subtext is not essential to interpret the movie, but it does add interesting layers. TW for incest, sexual abuse.

[[MORE]]

As I mentioned in my post about Alice, I think Lake Mungo wants the viewer to consider Twin Peaks/Fire Walk With Me in their interpretation and analysis of the movie. A story revolving around the death of a young girl whose body was found in the water, whose last name is Palmer, and who we’re told “kept secrets” - the film purposefully invokes Laura Palmer, the most iconic dead girl in television history. And of course, Twin Peaks, and particularly FWWM, is a narrative of abuse, specifically sexual abuse and incest. One does not think of Laura without thinking about that, so I would say this is the first nod toward the possibility that Alice was also being sexually abused by a family member.

1. The fact that Alice was keeping secrets is well established. Her mother says there was always a distance between them, and what we see is a very lonely girl alienated from her family and friends. Alice’s ghost seems to be trying to communicate with her family, to tell them something important. They’re satisfied to think the secret she wants to share is about what her neighbors did to her, but to me that is clearly not it, and they’re being purposefully blind, because they sense that what Alice is trying to tell them might be too ugly, & unbearable.

This is reminiscent of how everyone, including her own mother, knew Laura was in danger, but refused to look into what kind of danger, or to to help her in any meaningful way. Laura’s mother didn’t want to see what was happening inside her own home, at the hands of her own husband. Perhaps Alice’s parents didn't want to see what had been going on inside their own home, at the hands of their own son.

The incident with the neighbors who sexually abused Alice also reminds me of Laura, including the specific detail of a threesome. Laura’s sexual promiscuity is a reaction to her ongoing abuse - “She’s sexually active, she’s using drugs, and she’s crying out for help”. I think Alice was targeted by her neighbors because she was already isolated and lonely, without any real support system that could protect her from predatory adults.

2. There are many clues that Alice’s brother Matthew might have killed her. His actions throughout the movie are suspicious, and betray an obsession with his sister. The choice of framing the film as a documentary with found footage was brilliant - a lot of the footage we see is from Matthew filming Alice, sometimes against her wishes, and that in itself works as a clue.

What Matthew did with the footage, editing Alice’s photo in order to create the illusion of a ghost, is extremely suspicious. It’s chalked up to a weird way of working through his grief - which, yes, I could buy that, people react in odd ways to the death of a loved one. But his own mother seems unconvinced and initially thinks there’s more to it. It seems a little sadistic, not to mention obsessive, and it could be a way of discrediting Alice’s real ghost if he was already aware of her.

3. There are mentions that Alice and Matthew were close when she was alive, but we never see that at all. What we do see is Matthew pestering her, or watching her against her will, and her distressed reactions. At least two scenes I can remember show Matthew filming Alice in her bedroom - in one of them she’s writing in her diary (another nod to Laura) and reacts aggressively to his presence. Later, her father tell us of an incident of Laura’s ghost reacting that very same way to his presence in her room. The fact that she’s reliving that moment might be a clue to what gave her so much pain in life.

5. There’s a scene that shows Matthew covered in unexplained bruises. The doctor says they were caused by physical trauma, and that’s all we learn about them. Were they inflicted by Alice in self-defense when he was drowning her? It seems to be what the movie wants the viewer to wonder - there is simply no other reason I can think for that scene to be included.

In the end, there’s no proof that Matthew killed her, or that he was sexually abusing her, but I think it's an interpretation that adds to the narrative. Lake Mungo is largely about the gap that exists between people, even between those who love each other, and Alice’s loneliness, isolation and inability to be heard is at the heart of what makes the film so unsettling. There is no closure for Alice or for the viewer, there’s only a deep sadness, and a sense of impotency at not being able to help this girl.

[darkest-fluid]

Fic ask game: 1,2, 6, 8, 18, 23

You always pick such great questions!

1: Is writing cathartic or stressful for you?

I would say it's about equal parts of both. Often the process of writing can be very stressful for me, but that isn't because I don't enjoy it. It's more to do with my mental health difficulties. Anxiety, adhd, executive dysfunction, maladaptive perfectionism and imposter syndrome amount to a fairly potent mix of obstacles when it comes to creative projects. That said, when I actually do get things written, getting to look back over it and see that I've made something is a very cool feeling, especially if I manage to write anything that accurately captures the mood or message that I wanted to convey. So it's difficult, but the end result is always worth it.

2: Do you focus on attention to detail when you read fics? Are you more or less attention to detail focused when you write fics?

I'm a very detail oriented person. So much so, in fact, that I corrected a spelling error in this question after I pasted it, because looking at it was bugging me. 😅 I do pay a lot of attention to detail when I read, and I always appreciate when an author puts thought into things like subtext and realism and character motivation, but I'm not hunting for mistakes or trying to be judgmental or anything. I think I'm probably more detail-focused as a writer than as a reader, given my writing habits. Perhaps a little too detail focused, at times.

6: What are some topics you will never write about?

Oh, that's a tough one. I honestly feel like there isn't much that I would avoid, if the circumstances were right. There are topics that I would not write in certain ways, but if I had free reign to handle it my own way, then I could be open to almost anything. Incest would be extremely hard, I think, because I used to be in a relationship with someone who was an incest survivor and so that topic is very touchy for me. But I could still write about it if it was important to the story and I was able to treat it delicately. I think really the boundaries for me are more in the portrayal than in the subject itself. I would never fetishize anything that I find traumatic or upsetting, which is one of the reasons I tend to avoid unbalanced or abusive power dynamics in erotic fiction.

8: How do you develop your OCs?

It isn't always exactly the same every time, but I generally start with a broad concept and then flesh out the details. Often that concept will have some kind of symbolism tied to it. For Lyr, I started with my actual BG3 OC, who was a rogue (because I love to play rogues.) And then I thought about what kind of story I wanted to tell, and the symbolism of water and the ocean really appealed to me. Emotions, depth, freedom, hidden things, forces of nature, etc. Blood also contains water, and water has symbolic ties to telepathy. I think about those kinds of things in the early stages, and then I start to form an actual person out of it. Usually I try to give that person some qualities that go against stereotype. I also invariably give them at least a few qualities that I can identify with, as that makes it easier for me as an author to inhabit the character. Understanding their emotional temperament is important for me, since I tend to write from a more emotional/impressionist POV. So I spend a lot of time fine-tuning that. Figuring out their motivation is an important step, also. What does this character want, both in the short term and more broadly? What do they believe in? As for backstory, I will usually figure that out as I am building their personality. I don't do one and then the other. I'll start with a rough idea for character traits, then I'll write some basic backstory notes, then I'll use that to expand and refine the personality, then I'll write some more backstory, and so on. Each informs the other.

18: Do you feel like your work gets enough recognition? What kind of feedback do you like to receive?

What I hope for, with my writing, is that it will resonate with the people who read it. I think that's really what recognition means to me: knowing that someone read my work and was able to get something from it. It makes me feel like I'm connecting with people, even if very distantly. I feel very grateful and lucky that there are people out there who read and enjoy my work. Even if that number was very small, it would still make me happy. So in that sense, yes. I am happy with the recognition I receive. I love getting feedback about specific things within the story that a reader enjoyed or derived meaning from, and I love getting to see what kinds of details people pick up on.

If I'm being 100% truthful, I do feel a bit sad sometimes that the people who know me in person don't have any interest in reading my work. (I probably would not show them my fanfic, but I have plenty of original writing as well.) I always really enjoy getting to see the things my friends, family and partners create, so the lack of interest from them is hard for me sometimes. Though it's less about recognition, and more about the lack of connection. Writing is such a personal thing. Sharing it with people is like sharing a part of yourself, and I wish I could share more with them.

23: What's one piece of advice you would give to anyone who wants to start writing or posting their writing online?

Writing is like any other skill: the more you do it, the better you will get. It took me around 15 years before I hit a point where I started to really be happy with my writing ability. If you find that you're struggling to get in enough writing practice, collaborative writing (including text-based roleplaying) can be an awesome way to motivate yourself. And if you're looking for tips and feedback, writing workshops, writing groups and beta readers can be incredibly valuable tools.

Another bit of advice: don't apologize for your writing. If a reader likes your story, they will focus on the bits they enjoy. Drawing attention to the flaws will only serve to make them more obvious. Let the work stand on its own.

[harrowscore]

16 17 18 for the ship ask?

16. Are there any ships you just can’t/don’t understand? What are they?

Yes. Usually they bore me, or I find them bland, or simply the dynamic isn't my cup of tea/is too vanilla/I don't get it. I have a few NOTPs, usually of the "I wouldn't touch this with a ten feet pole" kind that trigger my fight-or-flight response (no hate for the shippers, tho). The first ones that come to mind are Joker/Harley (I love them both, but not together. Just no), Littlefinger/Sansa and Th*amsay from ASOIAF, then blander stuff like Jo/Laurie from Little Women (apparently there's a 150 years long war going on in the fandom lol), F*nnrey from SW (I am a Reylo, and in another world I would have even liked them, but alas, antis exist and the shippers ruined the ship for me), Ichigo/Orihime from Bleach (I used to be a staunch IchiRuki fan, so you can guess my feelings about the manga ending lol, even if I've not been in the fandom for many years and now I don’t care that much tbh), Eleven/Clara from Doctor Who, Harry/Ginny from HP, Alucard/Seras from Hellsing (especially the manga/OVAs; the anime, maybe that’s a different story), Matt/Karen from Daredevil… But they're very few. I'm a multishipper and can get behind almost everything, especially if a fic is well-written. Believe me, I've read and enjoyed some weird stuff. Usually it's not that I hate some pairings or I am anti X ship, I simply don't care lmao. It's more of a *shrugs* whatever reaction than anything else, really. I don’t even block content, I genuinely don’t even care when they cross my dash. Go figure lmao.

17. Are there any popular ships that you just don’t like? What are they?

There are a few, yes! I deliberately avoided to mention them in the previous answer, so I wouldn't have to repeat myself. 

First of all, Jon/Daenerys from ASOIAF; I like both characters (I especially love Dany to death, she's one of my favorite female characters ever), but… I swear it's not for the incest (that should've made it a little more interesting in my eyes), it's just that I don't care lol. Also Dean/Castiel from SPN; I remember that when I watched the show I couldn't understand the hype. Also, most recently, Geralt/Jaskier from The Witcher.

And… please, please, @villainsmatter, don't shoot me, but I first got into the Hannibal fandom through The Silence of the Lambs when I was 14 and back then the NBC show wasn't a thing yet, so I've never cared much for Hannibal/Will. In the books their relationship is very different from the show; basically, it's Clarice Starling who plays this role for Hannibal (and again, the last Hannibal book where the titular cannibal and his favorite FBI agent hook up and live happily ever after was published in 1999). That said, no hate for the show, the shippers, or even the ship itself. (Also, multishipping is a thing! And it's great.) Hannigr*m is one of those cases of “I get it, I really do, but for some unfathomable reason I can't get behind it”. Probably because Clannibal has been such a formative OTP for me in my young teen years, so I can't ship them with anyone else but each other. Which is rare for me, I assure you that I can ship almost anything.

I also don't care for most of the usual romcom/YA pairings (for example, The Hunger Games love triangle was the least interesting thing about the whole trilogy): I love romance, but apparently my tastes are weird, and most of them are so boring anyway.

18.  What is your favorite unpopular ship?

As in, rarepair that nobody gives a fuck about? I have a lot of those, so I won't talk at length about them all, but if I'd get to choose only one… Tyrion/Daenerys from ASOIAF. I've been shipping them like crazy (me and like, 2 other people in the whole fandom) since the ADWD release, well before they officially met up in the show. They're probably two of the ASOIAF characters who share more parallelisms with each other, and in GoT it got confirmed that Tyrion harbored romantic feelings for Dany in the shitty last episode, but God, it was handled so badly (like everything else). It was also insane that no one could "see it" when Peter Dinklage had clearly stated in the interviews that Tyrion was "smitten" with Dany, and kept looking at her like that. I don't want to sound like the general anti and be like "if you don't ship this you're x-ist!!!!" because that's not the case, but I can't shake the feeling that had Tyrion looked more like his able-bodied brother, everyone would - not ship it, but realize that yes, he was falling in love with her, and no, it wasn't platonic. The general quality of the show's writing didn’t help, though, and D&D can’t, like, write romance (see also how they kept erasing Tyrion's sexuality and general complexity from Season 5 onward). But the subtext was there.

GRRM is famously a big fanboy of Beauty and the Beast, and Tyrion is his favorite character, so I wonder how different their relationship will be in the next books (if they ever get released, that is, which I'm starting to doubt). I don't expect any kind of happier or kinder resolution, though; I'm just curious.

Thank you, dear! ❤ (I hope my Hannigr*m reveal didn’t upset you lol)

[heartofstanding]

I read Susan Howatch’s Cashelmara which is basically a 19th century Ireland AU of Edward II’s life and reign, told in a series of different POVs, including Ed2, Human Turd Edward I, Roger Mortimer (renamed Maxwell Drummond), Isabella of France and Ed3. So basically the Edward II version of Howatch’s The Wheel of Fortune which I read and loved at the start of the year despite some... questionable aspects.

And yeah, this has some questionable aspects too. Cut for length, spoilers discussion of kink, rape, abuse, alcoholism and the usual homophobia around Edward II’s sexuality.

So the main issue with Edward II’s sexuality is that... even though he has a fairly lengthy POV section himself, he never has his sexual awakening/realisation that he’s gay until we’re in Isabella of France’s POV and she is shocked and horrified that he’s into sodomy - and like, that’s understandable given it is the 1800s and her self-obsession. But it also means that we don’t really see Edward’s reaction to it. There are a few scenes where Edward talks about finally being true to himself and not being ashamed of who he is but... these are all set in a POV that is hostile to him. 

The way that things are set out, too, is that it means he and Gaveston aren’t lovers - Howatch hints at a romantic connection but it’s never more than faint subtext that appears to be never realised. Basically, the only sexual relationship Edward II has with another man is with Hugh Despenser the Younger. Which is fine! But also rather sad since we get to see a lot more of Gaveston and his connection to Edward.

Edward’s sexuality is tied up in kink, namely masochistic submission, which is connected to his father beating him as a kid. I don’t really know what to make of that. I mean, I just wrote a fic where Henry V has the same kink so it’s not the kink by itself that bothers me.

Again, this is presented in Isabella’s POV so we see it only through her disgust and horror. But I think what my biggest issue is that it feels like it’s there to be another layer of sordidness on top of Edward’s sexuality - i.e. Howatch’s figured her audience is largely fine with homosexuality so she adds the masochism in to make Isabella’s reaction more understandable/sympathetic.  

I think that what also puts me off is that connection between Edward’s kink and his father beating him as a kid. It’s clear that Edward has psychological issues from his father’s treatment of him and adding this incest-but-not connection to his sex life is just 🤢. 

On top of that, it’s not exercised in a safe way. Edward is, at this stage of the novel, increasingly alcoholic and his relationship with Despenser reads as abusive and controlling. There’s no suggestion that Despenser takes care of Edward but instead exploits him. So it’s just sort of this monkey paw wish of wanting Edward to have his sexuality acknowledged by the text but also getting it tied to an abusive relationship.

(I mean, I’ve seen some people suggest that Despenser did emotionally abuse Edward so it’s possible but also... this is Edward’s only same sex relationship? Thanks, I hate it. Give me Gaveston putting Edward over his lap for some wholesome spanking or figging or whatever)

Cashelmara is also the first time where Alison Weir and Paul Doherty’s delightfully unevidenced theory that Hugh Despenser raped Isabella first appears (seriously, Weir cites Doherty and this). The scene is really upsetting to read and it certainly fits Howatch’s depiction of Despenser as a monster. I read Edward’s behaviour in that as somewhat coherced too - he’s really drunk and doesn’t seem that willing but is going along with it because Despenser wants it.

And, like, Howatch is clearly writing a fiction novel. She’s not writing a factual biography or study of Isabella of France or Edward II’s reign. She’s not got an author’s note claiming she’s a Real Historian who always took the Most Accurate route. Even on top of the fiction novel, she further distances from the real history by setting her story in Ireland in the 1800s and partially or wholly renaming the everyone involved. So while it’s probably something to slap “Don’t Defame The Dead” on, it’s really a whole different thing to what Doherty and Weir are doing.

Besides all that, it did leave me with a buttload of feels around Edward II.

[orionsangel86]

Destiel is totally a regular ship though. If one were to categorize ships by how canon they are (canon/non-canon/almost-canon), then Destiel is impressive in how closely it tilts towards full-canon in the third category, but still it's not alone in that, and we are all perfectly commonplace shippers (because we ship). The truly unparalleled thing about Destiel is, I think, its fandom: including the writers, the actors, the fans, and the TRULY STAGGERING amount of incredible fan creativity.

I appreciate the sentiment nonny but I think you missed the point of my post. 

I was talking about the effect Destiel has on previously non-fandom, non-shipper audience members and how it drags us all in to this state. By definition, yes, we are “shippers” but the point is that the majority of us weren’t shippers BEFORE Destiel. We weren’t people inclined to ship for shippings sake. We weren’t the types to specifically pick slash pairings for nothing more than the pure joy of shipping a slash pairing. 

We fell headfirst into the Destiel trashcan because the show itself gave us a love story to emotionally invest ourselves in, regardless of whether we were fandom and ship inclined previously or not. I hope that makes my meaning a bit clearer, because that’s the bit that fascinates me. 

My time in fandom and discussing shipping with various people has lead me to come to at least a partial conclusion that the majority of people who ship other ships beyond Destiel (such as Johnlock, Spirk, Sterek, Drarry, Stucky, Stony etc) (baring in mind mlm ships are easier to compare to Destiel than femslash or het pairings) are people who have always taken an interest in fandom and slash shipping from a young age and are inclined to continue this way regardless of whether or not their fave pairings have any canon basis or not. Destiel is different because it appeals to people who don’t already fall into that category as well. THAT is what I find fascinating about Destiel (and probably also why we clash with other shippers so often since we are ‘new here’ and are less likely to have a firm grasp on shipping “politics” and what you should or should not do - at least we WERE new here once lol, 10 years old and counting now!) 

Destiel shippers are often harshly called “entitled” because of our demand for canon content, but what other fans and other shippers don’t realise is that unlike other shippers, we didn’t CHOOSE to ship Destiel. I certainly didn’t choose to spend my time obsessing over this damn love story. This ship chose US. The show created this beautiful love story and we all just sat there, blinked, and were like “well okay then. Maybe I’ll give this a google and make sure I’m not going mad.” So when we discuss the canon potential for Destiel, all we are doing is asking for the love story that the show gave US and inflicted upon US to reach a satisfying conclusion. 

I agree that it is staggering how far Destiel reaches. We already have a pretty good idea due to BTS rumours and gossip that the majority of the cast and crew and writing team ship it, or at least acknowledge it. The intent to include Destiel subtext is basically undeniable within the show at this point (and those that continue to deny it just look really really stupid doing so - to the point its rather amusing).

Right now we are in the midst of a voting war with a tiny new ship in the Zimbio March Madness ship poll and even with the antis (because there are not enough actual Posie shippers out there to take down Destiel) using bots and auto scripts to vote us down, we have still been fighting and holding strong. I would implore you all to keep voting on that because it is just further proof of how massive we are against all the odds, even with all big name SPN accounts refusing to ever support us over their incest ship. 

We ARE different. Because of our ability to do this. Because of the draw on new fans and because of the mountain of creative media we have produced. It is beyond my comprehension just how special Destiel is. I damn well hope we get a documentary one day that paints us in a very positive light because we are one amazing fandom and we should all be damn proud of how awesome we are.

[gascon-en-exil]

I've seen you mention a few times how Genealogy was an inspiration for Three Houses and that this shouldn't be ignored when looking at Three Houses. I've studied literature science and wonder if you're familiar with a term called "intertextuality"? Intertextuality basically means that one cannot ignore the influence that a text has on another text. When analysing a work that has known inspiration from another work, its important to consider what the references to the other text might (1/3)

mean to the context of the current one. Looking at Fire Emblem as a series, it often has reccuring story elements and character arcehtypes that can be played straight, for subversion, parody or deconstruction, depending - but something that cannot be ignored is that these elements are used by the writers on purpose to convey information to players familiar with them. For example, someone that has played Genealogy would immidietly pick up that the Flame Emperor title is a reference to Arvis (2/3)

and the many possible implications that come with it. Through something as simple as a moniker, the writers have already given more information to a series veteran than to someone unfamiliar with the series that picked up Three Houses as their first Fire Emblem game. To summarise: If a work is known to have taken inspiration from another work, its important to look at both works when doing a serious analysis. People unfamiliar with the referenced work will miss out on information. (3/3)

I did a fair bit of intertextual study in literature at university, so this is an academic approach I’ve been regularly applying to the media I discuss on my blog. I think fandoms subconsciously apply intertextuality to all long-running series without a single continuous story linking them all together, because it’s an aesthetic and thematic continuity by which they then may be identified as a series even in the absence of a connected plot.

Fire Emblem loves this kind of thing, playing around with the plot and character conventions Kaga established in the earliest entries of the series to produce new ones that share the same basic look and feel and storytelling flow. Of course it’s not just that the games all portray variations on the Standard FE Plot™ enacted in a pseudo-medieval European setting by anime characters; all the character and class archetypes and reused legendary weapons and dragon lore and so forth are part of this too, as is the series’s consistent (apart from FE13, ahem) messaging on war, its instigating factors, and its far-reaching outcomes.

For better or worse, Three Houses is arguably the first “modern” FE to demand a more than surface level intertextual analysis to properly understand it. Preceding it we’ve had -

Three remakes that can be directly compared to their originals. Where they reference other parts of the series it’s either in adding in staple archetypes that hadn’t yet been codified in the early Kaga games and may be easily understood (Athena and Norne as the exotic swordswoman and plucky female archer, the Deliverance trio recolored as Christmas knights plus one, Conrad for incest subtext) or are, for Echoes specifically, story callbacks only as far as Awakening.

Awakening itself, a nostalgia-laden greatest hits piece that does indeed pull from every prior game in the series up to that point. However, apart from its setting and story pulling beats from the first three games these references are straightforward and fairly shallow, with DLC maps and bonus characters taken directly out of previous games in a manner that better resembles the core conceit of Heroes than anything in any other main line game.

and Fates, which I would argue to be the game that can best stand on its own. Fans more familiar with the writing and development of FE14 can undoubtedly pry into why that is better than I can, but the worldbuilding and lore of this game feel fairly independent from the rest of the series to the extent that it appears not to have any true antecedent (apart from Awakening in a mechanical and abstract narrative sense). I’d contrast it with Sacred Stones, which is also the only game for its particular setting but feels more of a piece with the rest of the series because of its more conventional and less ambitious worldbuilding and the story and gameplay elements drawn from Gaiden and Mystery of the Emblem. I’m now wondering actually if one of the reasons that Fates is currently being treated very vocally as the black sheep of the series is in fact this: that it’s too dissimilar from the rest of FE such that it must be appreciated on its own merits - which, having been followed by a lavishly presently Kaga remake and the heavily intertextual Three Houses, many fans aren’t willing to do at the moment. At the very least this would account for why Awakening maintains a better reputation despite being an objectively worse game than Fates in nearly every regard.

And now we have FE16, confirmed to have Jugdral as its inspiration and with the characters and designs of its leads pulling from protagonists and antagonists all across the series. The fingerprints of the other settings are all over Fòdlan too, from with the shadow of Elibe’s Arcadia hanging over how we engage with Rhea and her family to Tellius’s musings on race, religion, and the psychology of what creates and sustains villains (plus, as Tellius is to quote a fellow meta writer “Jugdral in a blender,” there’s a lot of backwash to be had as well - typical of how FE’s referential nature compounds on itself). I’ve said before that expecting fans of Three Houses to play and fully understand two - or four, if we’re including Tellius - other games with a high barrier of entry in order to properly appreciate this one is the kind of snobbish elitism that will get you dismissed outright, but you’re absolutely correct that if you’re not familiar with that material then you’re missing out on a big piece of the puzzle.