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littlesparklight · 6 months ago

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I've been reading the thesis version of Meriel Jones' Playing the Man: Performing Masculinities in the Greek Novel, especially the last chapter, which gave me some more meat my bones, so I've elaborated on this post (... essay..?) about effeminacy and Paris.

I. Some general points when it comes to ancient Greek culture and certain attitudes relevant to the topic of effeminacy: Moderation, first of all, was a thing the Ancient Greeks considered paramount; moderation in sex, food, drink, pleasure, clothing - you name it. Self-control and nothing too much, of anything. I think this can be reflected in Menelaos' Book 13 speech: "There is satiety in all things, even sleep and even love, and in sweet song and blameless dance […] But the Trojans are insatiate of battle." He twice juxtaposes (before and at the end of this speech) the Trojans' supposed insatiability (lack of moderation) for war with that one can have "enough" of all things, even those much sweeter than war itself.

Both men and women were supposed to show self-restraint when it came to sex; it was a virtue, and furthermore, self-restraint and moderation was part of what made a man "manly", if you will. Part of Aeschines' speech Against Timarchus argues that he has shown a lack of moderation in his behaviour in all parts of life; seeking out men (whether "unsuitable" or not) to sleep with (as the presumed receptive partner), food, indulging in hiring far too many female prostitutes; all this made him unfit for what was otherwise a male citizen's rights and responsibilities both. Women being modest and chaste were similar for them, and an extra step further than a man's "moderation". At the same time, women were considered "naturally" more sexual, having less self-control (that was why it was extra important they exercise self-restraint and being chaste), and being focused on pleasure, which leads into the connected idea that a man who does not… becomes feminized.

Something illustrated by Lucian of Samosata's A True Story, in the very first parts of it, and talked about below:

And contrary to what one might think, in general the love of boys wasn't feminising (later, it would start to gain that association) - though as always, excessive sex no matter the partner "dooms" you, and being the one taking cock is of course effeminate (because being penetrated is what women do). Instead, a too intense interest in women, whether in sex or just spending time with them, becomes feminising. Like draws to like, and if you associate too much with it, it will "taint" you. Plutarch is of course much later than the Iliad, but this bit from the Amatorius (750f forward) might work as a general illustration:

"Now if this be the passion you talk of which is to be called Love, it is a spurious and effeminate love that sends us to the women's chambers, as it were to the Cynosarges at Athens. […] thus the true genuine love is that of boys, not flaming with concupiscence, as according to Anacreon the love of maids and virgins does, neither besmeared with odoriferous ointments, nor alluring with smiles and rolling glances; […] whereas that other love, nice and effeminate, and always nestling in the bosoms and beds of women, pursuing soft pleasures, and wasted with unmanly delights, that have no gust of friendship or heavenly ravishment of mind, is to be despised and rejected of all mankind."

In fact, a man being willing to break law and convention to be with a woman he desired to such a degree he'd try to sleep with a married woman would also feminise him. Or, throwing that around, being effeminate made a man suspect of being an adulterer. For example, apparently a Syracusan law (mentioned by Phylarcus) stated that any man who paid excessive attention to his appearance and personal grooming could be identified as an adulterer or a kinaidos. So the connection between decorative appearance on a man is tied both to immoderate sexual interest in women (as well as characterising him as attractive to said women), but general sexual deviance - a kinaidos was someone who liked to be penetrated.

There's also parts of Electra's speech to Aigisthos' corpse in Euripides' Electra that are pretty illuminating (930ff): "Among all the Argives you would hear this: "That woman's husband", not "that man's wife". Although this is a shameful thing, for the wife to rule the house and not the husband[…]You were insolent because you had a king's house and were endowed with good looks. May I never have a husband with a girl's face, but one with a man's ways. For the children of the latter cling to a life of arms, while the fair ones are only an ornament in the dance."

Male beauty coupled to a lack of manliness, dance (which can have erotic, if not outright sexual, connotations) contrasted with martial ability and virtue.

II. For the Iliad specifically, Christopher Ransom in his Aspects of Effeminacy and Masculinity in the Iliad (2011) summarises up a couple other points:

"In the Iliad, childishness and effeminacy are often referred to in order to define masculine identity. Women and children are naturally not operative in the adult male world of warfare, and so can be clearly classified as ‘other’ within the martial sphere of battlefield insults. Masculine identity cannot be formed in a vacuum, and so the feminine or the childish is posited as ‘other’ in order to define the masculine by contrast." and "Idle talk is characterised as childish or feminine, and is repeatedly juxtaposed with the masculine sphere of action." as well as "Effeminacy is linked to shame […]; if acting like a coward is a cause for shame, and prompts Menelaos to call the Achaians ‘women’, then effeminacy is seen as shameful in the context of the poem."

And while neither dancing nor sex are something that a man who engages in will become effeminate for, the former is explicitly posited as a peace-time pastime only, and sex is only to be had at the right time (and in the right amount). So, in the Iliad's (as well as the whole war) circumstances, neither of those two activities are proper to prioritise, and are at points set up in juxtaposition and contrast to war and martial effort. Additionally, physical beauty alone doesn't make a man in any way feminized - otherwise quite a few male characters would be effeminate! - and in fact, a well-born, "heroic" man will be beautiful because it befits his status. (Insert basically any big-name male character in Greek mythology here.) But, there's a limit and some caveats to this; physical beauty in a man (not a youth) must be balanced out against other "virtues", and if, in especially the context of war as in the Iliad, a man's martial ability is lacking, his handsomeness becomes a source of scorn instead, because he can't "back it up".

Here's our most notable "offenders": Nireus of Syme, who in the second book of the Iliad is called the most beautiful among the Achaeans after Achilles, but "he was weak, and few men followed him". Syme is a small island, but I don't think the "few men" here is supposed to be assumed because of a lack of numbers on the island. His beauty is all there is to him, and no one wants to follow him because he's not sufficiently (manly) able in war. Nastes and/or Amphimachus of Miletus, wearing gold in [his/their] hair "like a girl", which the narrator then calls [him/them] a fool for and that he will be stripped of those pieces of jewellery when Achilles kills him, and, again from Ransom's article; "Thus, the effeminised male, characterised by his feminine dress, is brought down by the ‘proper hero’, and the effeminate symbolically succumbs to the masculine." Euphorbus, the man who first injures Patroklos - this is an edge-case, because the text itself isn't obviously condescending or condemning Euphorbus compared to Nastes/Amphimachus. It simply describes him wearing his hair in a style of hair ornaments that pinches tresses in at the middle. But, the narrator still goes to the effort to make this extra description, not just the more general/usual mention of the hair being befouled in the dust as the man killed falls to the ground.

(In the intent of being somewhat exhaustive, two other potential edge-cases: Patroklos, who does perform some tasks at the embassy dinner in Book 9 that would usually be done by women. And it's not as if Achilles doesn't have women who could deal with the bread and similar. It's not remarked on, or marked in the text in any way, compared to the other characters previous. Menelaos, even more of an edge case when it comes to the Iliad, but like Patroklos he's described as gentle, and by Agamemnon and Nestor's indictment doesn't act when he should, being more prone and willing to let Agamemnon take point. Could say it ties into how Helen in the Odyssey is the more dominant partner in terms of social interaction, as well. In Euripides' Iphigenia in Aulis, this adjacent connection turns a little more clear, for some of the way Agamemnon describes how Menelaos is acting at some points have a rather feminising slant.)

And then there's our last "offender", who we see more of in terms of his lacking in living up to proper (Iliadic) masculinity; Paris. Before going into that, I want to touch on something else.

III. That being what the idea of the Trojans being "barbarians" does to the Trojans in later sources. In the Iliad itself, while the Iliad does have a pro-Achaean bias, the Trojans and their allies aren't really portrayed in the same way as happens later (but not consistently so), coming into shape during and after the Persian Wars. In summary, it's during this time the Trojans gain the negative stereotypes of the eastern "barbarian"; luxurious, slavish (but also tyrants! one basically ties into and enables the other), and effeminate.

Not all "barbarians" were considered the same, with the same stereotypes attached to them; northern (Scythians, etc.) barbarians were considered violent and warlike, "savage" if you will.

Edith Hall's book Inventing the Barbarian (1989), is all about this, but have a couple hopefully illuminating quotes about how these stereotypes were expressed, especially in drama/fiction:

So what happens is that all Trojans get tarred with this eastern barbarian brush, as illustrated by the Trojan Women, for example, where Hecuba's description of Paris' looks when he came to Sparta is steeped in the eastern barbarian luxury terms. Which comes attached with other connotations. Another example is in the Aeneid (by a character, not the narrative);

"And now that Paris, with his eunuch crew, beneath his chin and fragrant, oozy hair ties the soft Lydian bonnet, boasting well his stolen prize."

Notes here: 1. This is said by a character, not the narrative itself, and using this as an argument against Aeneas and his Trojans, but the stereotype itself isn't something new; 2. "That Paris" = Aeneas. While this might be more about Paris as a seducer and abductor of Helen, adultery is as we know effeminate, and given the emasculation of the rest of the Trojans and then the additional effeminate touches with Aeneas' supposed dress and hair, I'd say it's not just about that; 3. The word translated here as "eunuch" (semivir, "half-man"), by a quick look in Perseus' word tool, is also straight up used about effeminacy, though of course an actual eunuch wasn't a "full"/proper man and often viewed as effeminate, too, so they're tied together.

This is a development, of course, and we can't know how completely the later ideas of effeminacy would've been reflected in the times when the Iliad was crystallized. But on the other hand, those ideas about effeminacy wouldn't have sprung ready-made out of nothing in the Archaic/Classical era, either. Even in the Iliad, there are clear criteria for what makes a man properly manly/martial, which isn't really followed along the lines of later eastern barbarians/Greeks. So in the Iliad itself obviously not all Trojan characters would be equally easy to cast in an effeminate light.

But, again, we come back to the easiest target, the one who, by the way he's juxtaposed against another character who exemplifies the "war as (part of the) male gender performance" in the Iliad, stands outside of that. The one who basically, as he is portrayed in the Iliad, by the stereotype of the later eastern barbarian becomes the archetypal "eastern barbarian Trojan".

Paris.

IV. So, let's talk about Paris!

At the very basic level when it comes to Paris and his place in the Iliad, is that he is the foil and contrast to his brother Hektor in specific, as a warrior and as a man. But in that specific reflection he is also the contrast against almost every other male character, Achaean and Trojan, in the Iliad.

What does this mean?

-Cowardice; he's slack and unwilling as Hektor accuses him of. No way to know if this is specifically because he's always afraid of martial engagement, as in the moment we see before his duel against Menelaos, since being unwilling to fight in deadly combat could be for many different reasons. (He is not always slack and unwilling, however; he is out there on the battlefield with the rest at the beginning of Book 3, and after Book 6 he is, as far as we know, out there with the rest of the Trojans, from beginning to end. His unreliability in his martial efforts is another angle.) But the reason(s) why do not really matter; it would be cowardice either way. Not returning to the battlefield and instead sleeping with Helen, and then, again, not returning immediately after they're done be considered part of cowardice as well. Paris' not returning without being prompted (in one case, if he's being honest, by Helen herself) undoubtedly has several connotations and implications.

-He is one of, if not the worst, fighters among the commanders, on both sides. His martial prowess isn't up to snuff. As we see in Book 3 where Hektor calls him out on retreating, he notes that Paris' beauty would have the Achaeans believe Paris is one of the Trojans' foremost champions, for the idea is that this physical excellence would be paired with martial excellence. But it isn't, because of Paris' cowardice and his lack of martial ability, and tying into this, then, is;

-Paris' beauty. As noted earlier with Nireus, physical beauty not backed up by martial prowess makes you less than, and the epithet used most often for Paris to call him godlike is specifically about his physical looks. There are other epithets (also sometimes used of Paris) that mean "godlike" in a more general way, but the one most often used of Paris is specific. And, that particular word is what's used when Paris first leaps forward in Book 3; the narrative is using theoeides every single time Paris' name is used in Book 3. And so we get something like this, from J. Griffin in his Homer on Life and Death (1980): "…the poet makes it very clear that the beauty of Paris is what characterizes him, and is at variance with his lack of heroism…" as well as from Ransom in his article: "Again the suggestion is that Paris’ beauty is empty, and that he is lacking the courage or other manly characteristics that would render it honourable. […] Paris is set against Menelaos, a ‘real’ man by implication, and he is told that his skill with the lyre and his beauty would be no help to him then."

-Being an archer. The bow wasn't the manliest weapon around, and the Iliad disparages its use on the battlefield (selectively!). Paris is basically our archetypical archer, who gets insulted for being an archer and less manly because of that. Diomedes' insult in Book 11 lays this out very clearly; he straight up calls the bow not a real weapon, and by implication in his further speech implies Paris is no different than a woman or a child. Now, many people are insulted on the Iliadic battlefield by being compared to women or children. But none of these men are archers - or Paris, who Diomedes has just insisted has given him a(n insignificant) injury, by a "not real" weapon, that is the same as if a woman or child hit him. He's denying Paris' martial ability and masculinity several times over.

-The first part of Diomedes' litany of insults is worth looking at as well; "kera aglae = shining/glorious in horn", which is variously translated as either splendid in your crown of curls/glorying in your hair/bow. The translation varies because the Ancient Greeks also didn't know what was meant, exactly, and while I prefer the 'hair' option (because the bow is superfluous as it's mentioned right after), bow would emphasise again the uselessness of such a weapon; Paris' martial skill is useless and less manly. But what's more interesting in the case of if it might mean Paris' hair (as a way of dressing it, is meant); it puts an emphasis, again, on Paris' looks and the effort he makes in his presentation. Effort he shouldn't put there. And a third option that I don't know if translators ever use is that it might mean 'penis', which shakes out into "glorying in your penis". So, an insult about Paris' prowess being in the bedroom instead of on the battlefield, which is, of course, unmanly.

-His focus on dancing and music, as brought up by both Hektor and Aphrodite (and, though in a more general insulting context with other sons being mentioned as well, by Priam). The problem is, again, of course not his skill or interest in and with these things, but that he is better at these than combat and that he shows more interest in them and, by especially Hektor's implications, puts more effort and focus in these than martial endeavour.

As a point when it comes to his being a lyrist; that, too, was often edged in ideas of effeminacy. So while, of course, no man is effeminate just because they may take up the lyre at some point, as this was very much part of a genteel and elite culture, if one dedicates one's life to it, that starts to have an effect on how the person is viewed. As an illustration, this quote from The Culture of Kitharoidia (2010) by Timothy Power: "Juvenal is in fact activating, with the added zeal of the Roman moralizer […] a critical topos that Greek comic poets and cultural conservatives themselves had deployed as early as the fifth century BCE: the negative characterization of popular music and musicians, not least star citharodes, as prettified and unmanly, "soft" […], if still highly sexed." and also "[…]and as singers of aismata gunaikon. This latter phrase could be understood to mean "women's songs" or "songs sung for the enjoyment of women". Again, the conceit of the musician as effeminate seducer is operative." The way Hektor connects Paris' skill with his lyre together with his beauty as contra-martial in the Iliad seems to me like a nascent seed of this. And then we have the below quoted ode by Horace where Paris is playing for "his women", and thus their enjoyment, away from the battlefield and undoubtedly in private/the women's part of the house, and this, together with his sexuality and reputation for seducing (Helen), and we're probably right smack dab in the "woman-focused effeminate" of the musician spectrum. Aelian's Varia Historia has a similar point about Paris' lyre/singing; "what were sung but adulterous airs to take and seduce women?".

-His sexuality. As noted earlier, a man should show moderation and self-restraint. Paris, giving in to his desires and having sex in the middle of the day and during a tense moment, even if the forces aren't supposed to be fighting at that very point in time (neither he nor Helen would know Athena has induced Pandaros into breaking the truce), is certainly not showing any sort of moderation. He shows no hesitation in bringing up his desire to sleep with Helen, and has to be fetched from the innermost parts of his and Helen's home. The place where the women clearly are considered to be, which is not where a man should linger. There is a similar lack of moderation and self-control in how Paris doesn't just sleeping with, but runs off with, someone else's wife - he wants Helen so much he (through whatever means) removes her from her husband's house.

I can't emphasize enough how much especially his speech about how much he desires Helen and the subsequent sex isn't some epitome of macho male sexuality and prowess. Rather, this is the epitome of feminized weakness to sex and pleasure. Paris goes through several possible words to describe his ardour and the pleasure of sex to Helen, and Paris throws himself whole-heartedly into the weakness he is displaying. And again, in the versions of story where Helen and Paris sleep together in Sparta before they leave, Paris thus having part of adultery, would, as noted earlier, also be attached to effeminacy, through the same lack of control over one's sexual urges.

-Paris' physical presentation. There is a lot of focus on his dress and how it makes him look (Aphrodite practically objectifies him for Helen's pleasure when she describes him to her!), and that his clothes are gorgeous. Again, have a quote from Ransom about that Aphrodite-Helen scene: "This scene captures his essence perfectly. Once more Paris’ looks and dress are emphasised […] and, in Aphrodite’s speech, the poet explicitly disassociates him from his martial endeavour." Connected to this we have his first appearance earlier in this book, where he's described as not wearing full armour but a leopard pelt. Here's Griffin again: "[…] so he has to change into proper armour before he can fight - and we are to supply the reason: because he looked glamorous in it." Now, I don't think it's that simple, because other people wear animal pelts in the Iliad; Agamemnon and Menelaos both do so, as does Diomedes and Dolon. However, Agamemnon and Menelaos both wear theirs as part of a full martial dress and they're clearly meant as part of a display of authority and martial prowess. Diomedes, though he's not otherwise fully armoured as this is part of his dress during the meeting before the night raid, is clearly meant to be similarly glorified (Dolon is more of a question, considering how he's portrayed otherwise). Paris is specifically not wearing a full set of armour, even if he apparently has it at home, so in the end I'd agree with Griffin that, given the other instances of Paris' clothing being extravagant/beautiful, this is indeed an instance of "because he looked glamorous in it".

But as Ruby Blondell puts it: "The destructive power of "feminine" beauty is most ostentatiously displayed, among mortals, in the person not of Helen but of Paris. In contrast to the veiling of her looks, Paris's dangerous beauty is displayed, glorified, and also castigated. […] His appearance is unusually decorative, even in battle. His equipment is "most beautiful" (6.321), glorious, and elaborate (6.504), and his outfit includes such exotic details as a leopard skin (3.17) and a "richly decorated strap (polukestos himas) under his tender throat" (3.371)." (Helen of Troy (2013)) And aside from the Iliad, Euripides in describing Paris in the Trojan Women and Iphigenia in Aulis, makes much of his beautiful clothes.

Too much attention to one's looks would, again, be feminising. (Taking it as an aside because I don't remember where I read it or the source of the statement, but a note to an article I once read quoted a source as saying that a man paying too much attention to his hair was an indicator of either being an adulterer, or effeminate.) Men who were excessively interested in women were then stereotyped as decorating themselves further to attract them, with cosmetics, perfume, and even feminine clothes (because this sort of decorating oneself was thought to be attractive to women when a man did it). In the Heroicus (Philostratus), Paris is described as having white skin (suggesting he, like women, keep out of the sun), polishing his nails and painting his eyes, and in conjunction with the Iliad's focus on Paris' hair and his perfumed bedroom, this could be contrasted with a description of an effeminate character from Longus' novel Daphnis and Chloe: "His hair was glistening with perfumed locks, his eyes were shadowed; he wore a soft cloak and fine slippers, heavy rings sparkled on his fingers." (trans. Goold)

And Paris' pretty hair gets insulted at least once (by Hektor) and potentially twice, the second time by Diomedes in Book 11. (The phrase used is uncertain whether it's about Paris' hair or his bow; that it could be his hair, being worn in a particular style, has been an idea from ancient times.) And we know what sort of fuss the Iliad makes of pretty hair in men who do not otherwise live up to being properly masculine according to its ethos.

-His attitude towards the whole (Homeric) heroic ethos of the Iliad. Not just his unwillingness or lack of martial prowess, but rather the "personal motto" he expresses to Hektor in Book 6; "victory shifts from man to man". And, while I wouldn't say this is at all a typical mark of an effeminate man in terms of the Ancient Greek outlook on these matters, you do have to set it in connection to his other martial "failings". As Kirk in his The Iliad, a Commentary, vol. 1 (1985/2001) says: "He thus attributes success in battle to more or less random factors, discounting his personal responsibility and performance." and, another point of view from Muellner in The meaning of Homeric εὔχομαι through its formulas (1976) about this same "motto":

-A comment on Paris' epithet of "husband of lovely-haired Helen". While I heavily doubt there's any implication of unmanliness made in the Iliad itself by Paris being called this epithet, compared to the other elements to how Paris is portrayed, in Euripides' Electra Electra has a statement about Aigisthos that it's shameful for man to be known as being a woman's husband, instead of the other way around. My guess is that Iliad-wise (or within the epic tradition of the Trojan war), Paris' epithet is factual; he is the husband of Helen, nothing more or less. But by the point we get to Archaic/Classical Greece, the audiences would look at such an epithet - while still factual - differently. Especially in conjunction with everything else around Paris, I think.

So what you have, then, in sum is Paris being very much non-masculine. In the Iliad itself he is, at the very least, not conforming to the martial and cultural expectations and mores of the Iliad's/the Homeric masculine ethos. Even if you add in/change some of how the Trojans might view things, Paris would without a doubt still be non-conforming. Myth-wise, he certainly is so, both before and after the Persian Wars and the changes to the Trojans' general perception at the hands of the Athenian tragedians happened.

Here's Christopher Ransom again, to tie things up: "If gender is performance, Paris is simply not playing his part; if ‘being a man’ requires a concerted effort and a conscious choice, it seems as though Paris’ choices are in opposition to those of his more heroic brother."

V. And lastly, some scattered quotes from ancient sources about Paris, roughly ordered from earliest to latest:

"Accursed Paris, outstanding only in beauty, woman crazed, seducer-[…]The long-haired Achaeans howl in laughter thinking you our first champion, because your appearance is beautiful - but there is no strength in your heart, nor any courage.[…]Your lyre and the gifts of Aphrodite would be of no use to you, nor your hair and looks[…]" "[…]he is on his bed in his own room, radiant with beauty and dressed in gorgeous apparel. No one would think he had just come from fighting, but rather that he was going to a dance, or had done dancing and was sitting down. (The Iliad, Book 3) -I think these two Iliad quotes boil things down nicely. Hektor's lines are very much haranguing Paris for his lack of manliness in what Hektor chooses to insult. The focus on his beauty and the clothing in Aphrodite's lines add to it, for the clothing (and their emphasised beauty) especially would enhance said beauty. Aphrodite also bringing up dancing, and this is yet another notch in how he is so attractive and sexual/sexualized; the dancing grounds and dancing by young women and men were loci of sexuality.

"No! my son was exceedingly handsome, and when you saw him your mind straight became your Aphrodite; for every folly that men commit, they lay upon this goddess, [990] and rightly does her name begin the word for “senselessness”; so when you caught sight of him in gorgeous foreign clothes, ablaze with gold, your senses utterly forsook you." (Euripides, Trojan Women) "in robes of gorgeous hue, ablaze with gold, in true barbaric pomp;[70]" (Iphigenia in Aulis) -These two quotes are pretty straightforward, especially keeping in mind all the above and Edith Hall's discussion of the words connected to eastern "barbarians" by this point. And, too, however, that 'ablaze with gold' would imply he's wearing (a lot) of jewellery, which is not really a manly thing to do. The description in IA once more has him in lots of jewellery, and the "gorgeous hue" more literally says "flowery", so either presumably the various colours of flowers, or the clothes are embroidered in flowers.

"Vainly shall you; in Venus' favour strong, Your tresses comb, and for your dames divide On peaceful lyre the several parts of song; Vainly in chamber hide

From spears and Gnossian arrows, barb'd with fate, And battle's din, and Ajax in the chase Unconquer'd; those adulterous locks, though late, Shall gory dust deface." (Horace, Odes) -Double focus on his hair, and through that, Paris' behaviour (playing music, avoiding battle), all of it disassociating him from martial effort and into a more "feminine" sphere.

"So then Achilles you, who overcame the mighty, were subdued by a coward who seduced a Grecian wife! Ah, if you could not die by manly hands, your choice had been the axe." (Ovid, Metamorphoses, Book 12) -Quite literally spelled out in the text that Paris isn't manly, and that he's so very much not manly that Klytaimnestra, a literal woman, would've been the preferred slayer instead!

"[…]shall we endure a Phrygian eunuch hovering about the coasts and harbours of Argos […]" (Statius, Achilleid) -Again, like in the Aeneid quote, the "eunuch" here is "semivir", so Paris is explicitly emasculated and made out to be effeminate, for while it might be used of a eunuch (who is a "half-man") it's otherwise attached to effeminacy or other gender/sexual deviance. And certainly it is here, in the form of the effeminate man who is a great seducer of and greatly attractive to (and sexually weak towards) women.

"He attached panthers' skins to his shoulders, he did not allow dirt to settle on his hair, not even when he was fighting, and he polished his fingernails. He had a rather aquiline nose and white skin, his eyes were painted,[…]" (Philostratus, Heroicus/On Heroes) -Including the full and not just paraphrased quote here in the interest of fullness sake; the fussiness to his appearance is very clear, never mind the implication of his pale skin as noted earlier.

"And he washed him in the snowy river and went his way, stepping with careful steps, lest his lovely feet should be defiled of the dust; lest, if he hastened more quickly, the winds should blow heavily on his helmet and stir up the locks of his hair." and "he [Paris] stood, glorying in his marvellous graces. Not so fair was the lovely son whom Thyone bare to Zeus: forgive me, Dionysus! even if thou art of the seed of Zeus, he, too, was fair as his face was beautiful." (Colluthus, Rape of Helen) -I don't think I need to say much about that dainty description of Paris' behaviour and the care he takes to still look as put together and beautiful for when he reaches Sparta, do I? The second quote, though, I think deserves some comment, because Collutus twice in short order compares Paris to Dionysos, and as we saw in Hall's book, Dionysus in the Bacchae is associated not just with a foreign man, but someone who would be tarred with the stereotypes of the eastern "barbarian". And Dionysos has long, of course, been portrayed with a particularly feminized beauty, not just in drama.

On top of this, much earlier than Colluthus we have Cratinus' Dionysalexandros, a satyr play where Dionysos takes Paris' place for both the Judgement and kidnapping Helen. To note is that while the satyrs are followers of Dionysos, their uses as chorus in satyr plays wouldn't necessarily have them attached to Dionysos (often, they seem in fact to have removed themselves from him). And in this circumstance, then, Paris isn't just compared to the effeminate Dionysos, Dionysos straight up (though disguised as Paris) replaces him for a part of the play.

It all starts in the Iliad, but it certainly doesn't end there, and by the end his effeminacy is just all the more explicitly stated in text as effeminacy.

(Christopher Ransom's article can be read right here: https://www.academia.edu/355314/Aspects_of_Effeminacy_and_Masculinity_in_the_Iliad Edith Hall's book can be downloaded on her own website: https://edithhall.co.uk/product/reading-ancient-slavery/ Meriel Jones' Playing the Man: Performing Masculinities in the Greek Novel can be found as an unpublished thesis here: https://cronfa.swan.ac.uk/Record/cronfa42521 (but also exists as a published book) Timothy Power's The Culture of Kitharoidia can be read here: https://chs.harvard.edu/book/power-timothy-the-culture-of-kitharoidia/ )

#greek mythology #paris of troy #greek myth thoughts #the iliad #effeminacy in greek myth #archery in greek myth

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archeronfilm · 9 months ago

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The Fifth Element (1997)

"I don't care, he should have been a butch lesbian."

In case you don't want spoilers, or to hear my long verbose in-detail thoughts on this movie, here's the short and sweet version:

The Fifth Element is raunchy, corny, and campy in all the right ways, and some of the wrong ones. It's far from a perfect movie, but I really enjoyed watching and rewatching it, and I would recommend it! I guess um, 4/5 stars, maybe.

Okay, now let's get serious. I saw the first 15 minutes of this movie while visiting my mother, found it so intriguing that I watched it with a friend, and then watched it again to write this review. Let's get into the meat of it. Spoilers for a 30 year old movie ahead.

Word Count: 6,082

Okay, The Fifth Element (1997), dir. Luc Besson, is a sci-fi comedy starring such greats as Bruce Willis and Gary Oldman, who I've been in love with since I watched Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead (1990).

We open in Egypt in 1914, in a scene I can only describe as "Mummy-esque." Seriously, this scene came on in my mother's living room and I thought we were watching a yet unseen installation of The Mummy or Indiana Jones. It contains, among other things, an incredibly hammy and not-at-all-subtle dump of exposition. They go out of their way to gravitate back to this wall of runes several times, to make sure you know as much background lore as possible. A later scene renders this odd choice kind of unnecessary, but I'll concede its existence for one key reason-- the Mondoshawan.

The Mondoshawan are the good-guy aliens in this movie, though they're only featured on screen two times, one of them being this scene. Their space ship looms awesomely over this strange Egyptian exposition-temple, and they are a star example of one of the best parts of this movie.

All the effects, or at least as many of them as possible, are practical. Of course, it's a movie made in the 90's, so they would be. But the beautifully clunky and real toddling of these men in alien costumes was a dead-ringer for New Who, and it was incredibly endearing to me. I am a major believer in the power and merit of practical effects and the tragedy of computer generation. And this movie is *swimming* in practical effects. It's a delight.

I will say there's this bit where the leader Mondoshawan is toddling towards this very slowly closing stone door and he doesn't make it through because his very slow waddling is somehow slower than the door is, and I think it was supposed to be semi-serious but I laughed at it. It was just a little ridiculous.

The back half of this first scene feels kind of oddly paced, like it's rushed, which is odd to me considering the scene didn't hold back on dumping as much stuff on me as possible just a few minutes ago. Very strange scene, seems to only have one purpose, which I'll get back to later.

So, flash forward 30 years to something dramatically different in aesthetic and vibe, of course. We're in space. We're gritty, we're militaristic, of course. There's an evil fucking orb of fire flying towards the Earth at top speed. Things aren't looking great.

The president, a man with eyes of a frightening shade, is black! This is not plot relevant, but I find the tendency of movies from this period to feature black presidents far before Obama's term to be really interesting. Is this social commentary? A thoughtful statement about how fantastical the idea of a black man in office is to the average American? I will never know. I really like this character, he's a fun guy. He has more personality than most president characters do, probably due to him being on an awesome spaceship with a team of nodding yes-men in a delightfully Star Trek-esque uniform. I like him a lot. He's my boy.

This is the same scene where we get introduced to Vito Cornelius, a priest who appears to be Catholic because he does the sign of the cross later in the movie, even though I definitely assumed he was some weird member of the church of the Fifth Element or something.

Cornelius is here to suggest that the ball of fire is sentient and evil, and that the president shouldn't shoot it with missiles, because it's so sentient and evil that it'll get even sentienter and eviler. Of course, the president disregards this warning, because that's what movie presidents do to random old men in robes.

From this blunder comes one of the many incredibly hard lines in this movie. Where Mr. President tells Staedert, his military commander, "I have a doubt." and Staedert replies "I don't, Mister President" and then presses the fire button on the huge gigantic missiles. It's awesome, only slightly undercut by the fact that it doesn't work and Staedert and his crew get fucking obliterated right after. By the evil sentient ball which shoots out a flare of flames that has an evil spooky skull in it. That's not a joke at all, that seriously happens in this scene. I laughed.

Now we smash cut to Bruce Willis. He's Korben Dallas, this sort of gritty ex-military guy with a very cute cat. I love this cat. She is an adorable, slightly cross eyed white longhair. It's honestly a tragedy and a waste that she was only in like two scenes. She should have been ever-present, fitted with Air Bud esque mouth animation so she could act as Bruce Willis' voice of reason throughout the film.

Korben Dallas is trying to quit smoking. He's a cab driver who's dogshit at driving his cab and is mere seconds away from losing his license. He is, and I quote, "Still stuck on that two-timing slut." He wants a perfect woman. There are about two Chekov's guns in that last block of text.

He opens his first scene with us in what I can only describe as the sluttiest most hot and sweaty chest binder I've ever seen. And a pair of tight belted leather boots that it really seems like he fell asleep wearing.

And then he gets mugged by a guy, presumably so they can show us how much he knows about guns, and that he has been mugged enough that he now has a secret shelf that is just completely full of guns. Hilarious. I love this bit. It's not even relevant, I just loved it.

Okay so the evil sentient ball of fire. We didn't forget about that. This scene is one that confused me really badly during my rewatch. Here, Cornelius explains in full detail and in much less vague terms than before what the Fifth Element does and why they need it to save Earth from this evil ball of fire. This scene renders most of the in-narrative purpose of the first scene moot. The only reason it now exists (other than some background stuff that could probably have been introduced in a less odd way) is to address a more meta issue, which I'll get to later. But while I was watching it, I couldn't help but think "Well... then what the hell were we doing in the desert with Luke Perry?"

In this scene, we get to see the Mondoshawans again for the final time, so we can introduce the bad guy aliens, the Mangalores. They jack the stones (the elements) from the Mondoshawan ship and blow them up.

I thought this scene was supposed to set up the stereotypical "military incompetent" idea that's often present in this type of sci fi, but the president honestly makes mostly good decisions that don't make him feel like a bumbling idiot once through the entire movie. Honestly, he's kind of cool. I like him.

Okay, now that the Mangalores have been tragically exploded, we get the vehicle towards one of our main characters. Using a saved body part from the Mangalores and some utterly and delighfully made up genetic scienceology, we recreated the perfect genes of some alien into... a skinny white girl with the orangest hair I've ever seen. This scene features one of the only costuming choices in the movie that I truly hate. Leeloo's weird strap undies (and subsequent inability to wear normal pants, but mostly these strap undies?). I just hate it. Why is it here. It's not even that sexy looking. She looks like a ham in an asylum.

The set design in this movie is also delightfully Whovian and Star-Trek-ish. Tinfoil walls, lava lamp type sensibilities. The costumes are camp the set is camp, everything is camp. It's an absolute whale. The costumes the policemen wear while chasing runaway Leeloo are just hilarious. Many fantastic choices made all around, except for those fucking weird underpants.

Some of the sci-fi concepts in this movie FEEL overplayed and hammed up, and then I remember that it was released when a lot of this stuff was new and in-vogue, and it becomes an interesting exercise in perspective. Maybe they were pioneers, what do I know? I'm having an absolute ball.

Okay, so Leeloo falls directly through the roof of Korben Dallas' cab, and before you say anything, I do have many choice words throughout this recap/review about the infamous trope borne of this movie, "Born Sexy Yesterday," and I am aware of its existence. These opinions are sprinkled throughout alongside my others.

So Bruce Willis seems to be a big fan of this strange woman who, especially in this scene, acts very childlike. Korben's interest doesn't really read as creepy in this scene, until later when he randomly assaults her. You know, like a creep would do. I digress.

Leeloo knows how to read Roman lettering, and while I understand this choice in this scene, I do think it doesn't make sense and kills a little bit of world building. Whatever. Language guy complaining about language stuff.

Speaking of world building, there are a lot of worldbuilding things conveyed visually and through dialog in this movie that arent ham-fisted exposition vomit, and I am very fond of them. The hitch inside the rear door of Dallas' cab, saying Leeloo "doesn't have a file," the Fog? That is never explained? This world has some suggestion of richness and intrigue that I love to see from sci-fi. They waste no time painting "THIS IS THE POINT" with big red letters, because it's just setdressing, and I think that ultimately makes these details really sing.

I love the dialog and energy in the high speed chase scene, the vertical train, the Fog??? The way this movie doesn't need to explain itself. Until it does explain itself. Blatantly. And then I get sad.

In a lot of ways, I think this movie's actual plot is the least interesting part of it. More on this later.

It also *really* seems like this movie was sponsored by McDonald's.

A nearly unconscious Leeloo begs Korben Dallas to take her to Cornelius, before passing out with such cartoonish vigor that I originally thought she was kidding.

So Korben takes Leeloo to Cornelius' apartment, getting originally turned away for being mistaken for newlyweds (barf). Instead of knocking again, he just kicks down the door. Cornelius realizes due to a tattoo on her inner wrist that she's the Fifth Element (!) and passes out. Korben places her on the couch.

Now, I don't really understand why Korben Dallas chooses to sexually assault Leeloo by kissing her while she's unconscious in this scene. It not only feels gross, it also feels kind of unprecedented. They've met once, had approximately the amount of chemistry you'd expect, and then she passed out. Maybe in the 90's this felt spontaneous and romantic, but to me it just feels like he did it for no reason. I wish she had actually shot him. Thankfully, her outburst of rage at this momentarily makes her feel a little less like a literal grade-schooler, a much needed respite.

Milla Jovovich does what I think is a pretty good job at keeping her pronunciation of the divine language consistent throughout the scenes where she speaks it. She's Ukranian-American, but I have no idea if she's bilingual or had an accent coach or something. Either way, well done Ms. Jovovich!

Anyway, Cornelius walks in having suddenly changed into these silly ass robes, a great sight gag, and kicks Korben out of the room, but not before he reveals that the words that Leeloo yelled at Korben meant "never without my permission," which really made me wish she had shot him *twice*.

The scene where Korben talks to his friend, Finger, about Leeloo was clearly supposed to be romantic, I'm sure. It actually makes him look like a freak. I hated him for much of this movie.

Now, Back to the Mangalores. The Mangalores are a warrior race who have been hired by the big evil of this movie-- Gary Oldman. For some reason, they decided to make him southern. Not that I'm really complaining, but characters in this movie seem to have accents for no reason, and I really love it.

I love Gary Oldman in this movie. His character, Zorg, is fitted with one of the most ridiculous wardrobes of the entire cast. He has this odd plastic cap on his head, a flaccid mohawk, and the filthiest facial hair possible (a soul patch). He is fucking awesome. I love Zorg.

Spliced between parts of this arms deal, we learn that the stones aren't in the case. Leeloo tells Cornelius that in case they were stolen, the stones were given to someone trusted by the Mondoshawans, but not before changing clothes in front of him and his apprentice. I swear, she does this like three times in this movie.

The cut back to Leeloo in this scene right after Zorg realizes the box is empty is really well done. Effective, funny, punchy. She laughs like a freak, it's great.

There's a bit of dialog Zorg has with his right hand man right after this failed arms deal where he talks about his philosophy around warriors and why he prefers killers. I love this bit. The way he just coldly leaves them with a bomb built into his holy-overkill-gun is hard as shit, and it gives us a nice insight into our villain in the first scene he's in. I like it. I like Zorg.

Speaking of Zorg, we get a proper introduction to him just after. Here is one of the most interesting scenes in this film, where we get some insight about Zorg and Cornelius' respective opinions on life and death.

The interesting thing about this scene is that I kind of agree with Zorg, his saying that death exists to create life for the living, ostensibly feeding the cycle of life and progress. Regardless, he is painted as stupid when Cornelius has to rescue him from choking on a cherry.

And why the hell would you ever put a whole cherry in a glass of water? You're basically asking to choke to death. And Cornelius has a point, why don't you, a guy who has a special button to unearth his bizarre elephantine freak creature from the secret drawer in your desk, have a special robot to smack you on the back when you're choking? *Especially* when you do dumb shit like putting whole pit-in cherries in your glasses of water? Answer me that, Jean-Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg.

Actually, I don't know how this bit is supposed to disprove Zorg's point. All it really proves is that people need each other sometimes, which has nothing to do with what Zorg was actually saying to Cornelius here. Now, we could argue that it goes against the way that he executes this philosophy, which is true, being that he is a weird freaky villain who has henchmen, but I don't want to argue that. Because the fact that they have this strange sum-zero philosophical argument where they're ostensibly not even talking to each other is way funnier.

Right after this there's a bit where he sends his right hand man to literally bug the space-oval office. As in, it's a cockroach with a little camera and microphone on it. This bit is super funny. No thematic relevance, I just loved watching the president fucking cream the roach with his shoe while Zorg's henchman writhed in pain from the mic feedback.

The next important scene, by which I mean the next scene, starts with a healthy serving of "Sci-Fi setting that is weird about Asian people." Get behind me, Mr. Kim, this movie doesn't respect you enough.

Anyway, Korben's hilariously young adult-sounding mother calls him on the phone to bitch at him insanely about how he never calls and gives us a key piece of information-- Korben has won an all expenses paid trip to Fhloston Paradise! This coincidentally is where Leeloo told Cornelius the person with the stones was. This contest was actually alluded to on Korben's television in his first scene as well. This movie is very, *very* good at setup-payoff. Lots of domino situations.

Korben professional-improvs his way out of a police confrontation (organized by Zorg) just to get walloped over the head by Cornelius, who intends to steal his tickets so he and Leeloo can save planet Earth. In the process, he also puts his former superior officer in a freezer. Everyone wants Korben's sweet sweet bod in this scene. It's really something.

There's a couple of details about Korben's character and his relationship with Leeloo in this scene that jumped out at me, and I will be addressing them alongside the others of their ilk later in this review.

Cornelius hatches a plan to make his apprentice David impersonate Korben so they can get to Fhloston. It doesn't work, of course, because this movie chose to represent being knocked out the most realistically I've ever seen in a blockbuster flick. Korben is only down for the count for a second or two, which means he caught up with them and pulled some more startlingly effective improvisation out of his ass to get on this flight with Leeloo. It's really remarkable how good this ex military guy is at improv. Get his ass behind a mic. Get Korben on Whose Zorg is it Anyway, and pay me royalties.

I have a note here that just says "Everyone in this movie wears what I can only describe as rave wear. It's pretty hilarious." I have nothing to add. That's accurate.

So they're boarding this flight, right? And here's a real doozy. 1 out of 2 of my impassioned rants on one specific character in this movie who we meet in this scene. Ruby Rhod. Ruby ffffucking Rhod.

I actually *need* to talk about this guy. He is like the Prince of outer space. His scenes where he does his talk show are mesmerizing, zany, all over the place. I felt like I was having a nightmare. He's fascinating, fabulous, flamboyant, some other f word that I'm choosing not to say right now. His use of "green" to mean "good" is just perfect. Korben's completely dodgy and stiff responses are honestly the perfect contrast to Ruby in this scene. They're foils. This scene has captivated me. Ruby prowls around while tiger growling noises play in the background and flirts with this random stewardess ON AIR, inches from her face with the mic separating their mouths, promising to have sex with her later. ON AIR. It's implied that this is a normal thing that is acceptable on his show.

Ruby also has a whole gang of yes men, all of which are only slightly less flamboyantly homosexual than he is, but still feel more explicitly homosexual than Ruby, who has sex with as many women as he can possibly manage, which seems to be many, because every woman who mentions his name in this movie appears to cream their pants if he so much as breathes near them. That girl he flirted with? She moaned and collapsed on the floor right after.

The scene after the show, where Korben Dallas pins Ruby to the wall and threatens him, would have been beautifully compelling if Korben Dallas was a butch lesbian. This is the furthest thing from thoughtful character analysis, I just would have liked it more.

It's implied in the following scene that Ruby has only ever really wanted to fuck aliens before meeting this random stewardess, and we get to watch a very cleverly compiled set of scenes from wildly different locales that all fit together. Ruby having sex with this stewardess, the ship taking off, and Zorg blowing up his right hand man for failing him. They also use the Wilhelm scream in this scene, but given that the movie was made in the late 90's this is par for the course, and is really much more tasteful than usual.

For some reason, rasta(?) music is playing. There is a vaguely rastafarian man in this scene, but only for around 12 seconds. The use of regionally and culturally specific music in this movie that has no bearing on the actual space the characters inhabit is absolutely fascinating to me. There was some music earlier, playing in sci-fi New York, that I swear used a Raga scale. All the music is very good, good job Éric Serra.

After Zorg finishes exploding his frankly very competent right hand man, we get a scene where we discover that he's after the stones because some man he's working for, Mr. Shadow, wants them. Zorg is the main antagonist for most of this movie. Mr. Shadow never comes back again, and we do not need him. All he really serves to do is to make Zorg look more pathetic and give him an excuse to be more desperate when he can't get his hands on the stones, which, while fine, I think the movie could have gotten away with just having Zorg being a dramatic villain who freaks out when he doesn't get his way without this bit. Not egregious, but not really a necessary scene.

Okay, I have a big question. Why is Fhloston paradise Hawaii? It just *is* Hawaii. Did Hawaii escape to a separate planet at some point? Good for them, except that Fhloston is still a crazy tourist spot full of annoying white people, so not really. This is just Super Mega Hell 2 for Hawaiians. The song they sing in the first Fhloston scene is really good, though. Thanks, Éric.

On the topic of Fhloston, I really love the use of color in the set. Given the way the rest of this movie is, it's possible that it's more for visual contrast and not theming, but there is a scene during the opera performance that switches between complements, and the visual contrast is, well, good.

Speaking of the opera, Korben has front row seats, and its 5pm. You know what that means.

It's fucking Ruby Rhod time, baby! Ruby is back in black, in the most fantastic costume in this entire movie. Despite it showing off his entire clavicle (no exaggeration), it manages to get more and more revealing as this scene plays out. This bit where he asks Korben if he's happy with being on Fhloston in his usual over the top, loud, flamboyant way and Korben looks into his eyes, leans into the mic, and says "Thrilled" drolly is a short interaction so packed with sexual tension that I can't even argue for it without just telling you to watch the scene. This is their only interaction that really FEELS like gay sex, and it made my jaw go slack for a couple of seconds, even as the movie immediately moved on to the much more important opera segment.

Speaking of the opera, for real this time, I have one complaint. It's an annoying complaint that nobody ever wants to hear, but I'm saying it anyway because that's what I'm here to do: Diva is *not* singing. Now, maybe in some later movie review we can learn my detailed opinions on live recordings of singing performances in film (short version: I don't think they should happen, and I hate them) my main complaint is mostly that Diva's actress is just not very good at *pretending* to sing, much less opera. She doesn't pretend to breathe, doesn't try to move her mouth with the incredibly strong vibrato (understandable to some extent) but most of all, her mouth shapes just aren't right. I can concretely point to certain mouth shapes and say "that's not the shape her mouth should be when singing that vowel," it's obvious enough that I can do that. Granted, I have some experience in singing on stage, so maybe that's just my personal annoying musician experience speaking, but it was really noticeable to me. Okay, annoying complaint over, now I can say nice things

This opera, Lucia di Lammermoor with a poppy remix track towards the end, is ridiculously well performed. Diva's vocalist, Inva Mula, does a stunning job at both the formal and informal portions of this song. It's actually amazing how little of her voice had to be computer edited to sound more "alien," it's only done like twice in the portion that it's done at all, and the rest is pretty clearly just her. She really knocks it out of the park here.

The movie does something interesting here that I really enjoyed, where they periodically show us different characters reactions to this opera. Mostly Korben and Leeloo. I want to focus on Korben, who looks at Diva like this is the first time he's ever been moved in his life. Seriously, his eyes are wet and shining with unshed tears and I really mean that. Right when we get this poignant reaction out of Korben, the pop track starts playing and the somber moment abruptly ends, which is kind of what it's like watching this movie, or clicking on a Read More and discovering a film review that is easily over 5k words.

This movie has a great penchant for match cuts. Actually, most of the transition and shot choices made in this movie are really top of the line. They're all punchy, sharp, playful, to the point. Fantastic cinematographic choices, guys.

Diva finishes her performance right after Leeloo finishes fighting Zorg by getting shot at while up in an air duct. The opera is then laid siege by the Mangalores, who brutally murder Diva. This is sad for me, because I wanted her and Leeloo to be friends, and for Korben Dallas, who just felt the strongest emotion he's ever experienced thanks to her.

Ruby, of course, continues reporting on his talk show throughout the assault, because he's a goddamn professional. He also spends the next scene and a half shrieking in fear.

The reveal that the stones are literally inside Diva's body not only makes me watch one of the more disgusting scenes in this movie, it also makes me wonder-- Was Leeloo just supposed to kill her? Also, how did they get in there? Many questions and no answers, because we aren't here to fuck around.

While Diva is giving Korben this weird spiel about how Leeloo needs him and his love to survive, there's this brief cut to Leeloo, bleeding in the air vent. This cut is an absolute pang to the gut. She sits, curled up, alone, sobbing painfully with a bullet wound in her leg. She looks small, helpless, childlike in this brief scene. It was so impactful to me that it just made me angry about the way Korben and Leeloo's relationship in this movie is executed. This is another "get back to it later" thing.

For the rest of this "getting shot up by Mangalores" scene, Ruby Rhod is cowering and sniffling and screaming for Korben to help him. It's honestly like this for the rest of the movie. They're just friends now. It's awesome. I love this guy. He accidentally shoots a guy in the head and then asks Korben "You think he'll be okay?" He's the best character in this movie.

We get one of Korben's final fantastic moments of improv in this scene. It's around this point, during the "negotiation" scene, that I realized that the problem with this movie is that the best parts of it are the parts that aren't about the two characters who I'm supposed to care about the relationship between.

This scene, where Korben gets in a fighter jet, says it's just like driving a cab (a contrast from his conversation with Finger in his first scene, where he says driving a cab is easy because he isn't driving a jet) and then blows a fucking hole in the airlock and guns it out of the Fhloston ship, is so fucking cool. I'm a very simple man. It was awesome. One question, does Korben have some kind of allergy to reminding people to put seatbelts on? This is the second time he's just allowed his passengers to fly around the cabin while he drives recklessly.

Ruby's show ends at 7pm, when he tiredly proclaims that it's the best show he's ever done. I was thinking the same thing. In fact, Mr. Rhod, I really think you should hire Korben. There, now he has a new job.

Right here is where I'm going to address one of my main points (gripes) about this movie. Yes, I know, over 5k words in.

This part of the scene, where Leeloo has her weird crisis of faith about the evil of the human race, learns about war and concludes that humans aren't worth saving, falls flat to me. Sure, it feels over-played, but ultimately the problem is just that it's not done well, much like the rest of her characterization. Leeloo's depiction as being naive and childlike, which honestly only holds because she doesn't really speak fluent English, holds back her character because of the movies comphet insistence that her and Korben be romantically involved. A narrative where Leeloo, naive and unfamiliar, Leeloo, who needs other people, who sobs painfully alone in an airvent, who needs to be dried off with a towel after getting soaked with water, is actually a child, would be more compelling. And her not being able to reconcile with the evils of humanity would also have felt more convincing if she was literally a child. Like, of *course* she can't see the situation with any nuance, she's a kid. A narrative where Leeloo and Korben's dynamic is more familial would be more interesting, and honestly the way she's characterized already lends itself so perfectly to this narrative that there were points where I got actually upset that the movie refused to go that direction.

I'll go ahead and talk about Korben's character here as well. Korben is a refreshing detraction from the classic grizzled tough guy trope that we tend to see in action movies. Whether this is a result of 90's zeitgeist or just the writer's own preferences, I don't know, but I noticed it. I was expecting Korben Dallas to be a sort of obnoxious, emotionally stunted brick wall of a guy-- but he isn't, really. Korben is quick on his feet, improvisational, messy, and sure he's genius with a gun, but he's also *nice*. He's nice in a distinctly not "Grizzled emotionally stunted guy" way. When he accidentally gets Leeloo soaking wet, he gets her a towel at warp speed, apologizes up and down in a much softer tone than he ever uses for anything else. I thought at first "of course, because he likes her," but then-- Then! When he discovers that he's accidentally plastic-wrapped Cornelius, he rips the plastic and apologizes-- in the same sort of tone. He adapts his approach to the Mangalore barrage in the cruise ship to Ruby Rhod, never complains about Ruby being a nuisance or being in his way, just brings him along and asks him to help out. I honestly really like Korben Dallas. Which is why, upon reflecting on earlier scenes in this movie, it really irritates me that he just kisses Leeloo for no reason, or even that he's in love with her at all.

That scene I mentioned, where Korben dries her off, or even as early as the cab scene where she's talking animatedly to him in the divine language and we get the "bada boom" dialog, just oozes a kind of gentleness and care that doesn't speak satisfactorily to romance or sex. Leeloo, this childlike character, and Korben, this gentle man who happens to be great with guns, don't feel like husband and wife. They don't feel like sexual partners. He feels like her father. That moment with the shower soured the rest of their dynamic for me during my rewatch, because I kept thinking about how much better it could be. That dynamic, as I've already said, would have been deeply compelling, especially given the final reveal of the movie.

Now that we've escaped Fhloston, we've headed back to the temple in Egypt. This is that meta function of the first scene I said I'd address-- without it, there is no sense of a sort of circular journey the film takes. The film establishing this temple *is* important, because otherwise this scene where we return to it just wouldn't land as well. That said, I do still think the first scene is a little odd and clunky. Then again, so is much of this movie, and it's still a good scene.

Our characters spend a frustratingly long time decoding a "riddle" that Leeloo tells Korben, one which was so simple that I was yelling at my laptop the first time I watched it. We get another very gratifying and subtle payoff from an earlier scene where we see Korben has only one match left, which he needs for the fire stone. Earlier, we see him subtly take his penultimate match from the box. This movie's Chekov game is crazy.

Much like this review, Leeloo says something that feels deeply substantial nearly 2 hours into a 2 hour long movie. She says "I don't know love. I was made to protect, not to love. There is no use for me other than this."

This line is so compelling to me. It's the most CHARACTER I've seen from her in the whole movie, and its 2 hours in. We do not get to explore it.

You might have noticed, based on this line, what the Fifth Element actually is. What Leeloo needs in order to activate her Element and shoot the big fuckoff laser into the evil fire ball.

Its ~Love~.

This is, of course, ridiculously corny and requires them to kiss nasty on the mouth for longer than I would have liked to see (Of course, I would have like to not see it at all).

I don't actually mind this conclusion or the theming. It's silly, but so is the whole movie. But you might, like me, see an issue here.

If we had approached this movie the way I so desperately craved, made their dynamic more familial, made Leeloo a child and given Korben a new weird alien daughter, this conclusion would have been leagues more powerful.

Not only would it be a unique approach to what is usually a very hetero and sexual genre, it would have given a much more gratifying conclusion to Korben's character arc. At the beginning of his arc, Korben talks about how he's looking for a perfect woman after his wife left him. In the movie, Korben just... *gets* the perfect woman. He gets exactly what he wanted and he learns nothing. If Korben instead had to reckon with this new facet of his life and identity, had to reconcile with being thrust into quasi-fatherhood, he might actually have deigned to, you know, *develop* as a character. He would have *learned* something. I'm not saying every single character in the movie has to learn something, but the main goddamn character probably should, right?

But since it's an ~adult movie~ for ~grown ups~, we can't tell compelling family narratives, and the movie has to end with them having sex in a reactor pod. I hate that. I hated that conclusion and my least favorite part of this movie was its main conceit, which was genuinely tragic given how enjoyable I found the rest of the film.

So, I'll leave you with this.

The Fifth Element (1997) is a *good* movie. It's incredibly fun, zany, raunchy, and lively. The music is very good, the costuming and set design is whimsical and fantastic. It's a little weird about Asians. It birthed one of the worst cinema tropes ever invented, and it didn't even have to, because the movie would have been really, deeply beautiful if it hadn't.

And Korben Dallas should have been a butch lesbian.

Actually, I'll leave you by saying that the song that plays in the credits of this movie is really good. "Little Light of Love," it's called. I'm going to link it so you can experience it, too.

youtube

#The Fifth Element #movie review #movies #film review #film #cinema #writing #positive review #Youtube #Luc Besson #Bruce Willis #Milla Jovovich #im hard on this movie because i really liked it

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esseastri · 4 months ago

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Nicole's Favorite Books That She Read in 2024!

I think I missed doing this post the last few years, but let's get back on the train, shall we?

In no particular order, we have:

The Book of Ile-Rein, by Martha Wells: I've been gobbling up all the Martha Wells backlist that Tor has been reprinting, and I adored this set. Element of Fire was a classic and Death of the Necromancer was a romp. Both were fun for very different reasons, but as always I love Martha's characters too much.

Lady Eve's Last Con, by Rebecca Fairmow: Oh, what an absolute DELIGHT of a novel! Full of 1820s etiquette and elegance, 1920s glitz and glam, 2020s swag and shenanigans, and 2120s gravity and grit, this book is fast and fun. The characters are unforgettable, the plot is unputdownable, and the romance is to die for. The most fun you've had at a zero-g engagement gala, for sure.

The River Has Roots, by Amal El-Mohtar: Comes out in March 2025!: I cannot put into coherent words how very much I love Amal El-Mohtar's writing. It's just so beautiful. Lyrical and clever, intricate but open, so full of heart. This book was written with so much love, and it shows. I could wrap myself in this story like it's a scarf and just wander its sentences forever.

The City in Glass, by Nghi Vo: God, this book is so beautiful, but it made me full-body sob for an entire chapter, so I guess, be aware. This book is about grief. Loss and hurt and anger and grief. It is absolutely gorgeous.

Parable of the Sower, by Octavia Butler: It's really hard to rate this book because it was amazing and also horrifying. So many terrible things happen, but the book is beautiful, too. Despite the fact that everything that can go wrong in Lauren's life does, in fact, go wrong, she is so hopeful. She's got something to believe in, and she is so tenacious. I hated this book and I also loved it. And I am so deeply angry at every literature class I took that didn't teach Octavia Butler.

The Dead Cat Tail Assassins, by P Djeli Clark: I don't think P. Djèlí Clark is capable of writing a thing I don't like. His prose is just magical, his ideas are brilliant, his characters are wonderful, and his books just fill me with joy. This was hilarious and brutal and fun and sad and I loved it. I loved it so much.

Mammoths at the Gates, by Nghi Vo: If you haven't read the Singing Hills, don't start with this one, go back and read the first three. But then read this one. This one is about grief and it is beautiful.

Swordcrossed, by Freya Marske: The Midnight Bargain's less magical and much spicier cousin, this book is an absolute delight. I'm a sucker for a snarky con man with a heart of gold, so I was sold on Luca from page one, but Matti crept up on me and I found myself loving his seriousness and his sneaky sense of humor, too. Personally, I want the Maya and Sofia POV of this book, because I love those two women more than I can explain, but I'm content with the disaster boys getting the spotlight, too. A great, low-stakes romp though business espionage, sword lessons, guild intrigue, "sword lessons", and the wildest wedding this town has ever seen, Swordcrossed is just fun. So much fun.

A Novel Love Story, by Ashley Poston: This one is about how books by your favorite authors have the ability to change the course of your life, and I just wish Ashley could know that she's that author for me. I love this book.

Howl's Moving Castle, by Diana Wynne Jones: I'm still not sure how I somehow managed to miss this book entirely, but god, it is SO SWEET and I LOVE IT SO MUCH. It wraps up very quickly at the end, but honestly, that feels very Howl--slapdash and manic and wild. I love how Sophie is the embodiment of "This Might As Well Happen." I just really love them all. What a good book.

Godkiller, by Hannah Kaner: I loved Kissen from page one, and Elo is such a soft boy he was irresistible, and I love the worldbuilding of this strange, godful land sO MUCH. The circle of people creating gods who create people and destroy them so the people must destroy them is such a fascinating design for faith and belief, and I loved the exploration of it.

The Mars House, by Natasha Pulley: Have you ever gotten mad at an author for being too good at writing words? For taking deep, dark, heavy topics like prejudice and fear, anger and murder, right versus good versus kind--and making them beautiful and delicate? For taking harsh edges and writing them in such a way that they seem like soft candlelight? For taking real science and feeding enough fiction into it that you hope this is how the world turns out because maybe, if it were real, then things might be okay a long time from now? Anyway, I've finished this book and I am pissed off that I finished it because what the hell do I read now?

City of Bones, by Martha Wells: While I don't jive with the title of this book (and I'm not sure the book jives with it either), I loved everything else about it. Wells is an absolute master of characters, especially non-human characters that end up being the most human and the best of them. Khat is no exception, and falls in with Murderbot, Moon, and Kai on my favorites list. I love a person who is too deeply good for their own safety. And Wells writes these doofuses perfectly. It's a slow start and a soft story (surprisingly soft, considering how dark it can be), but if you can give it a little patience and attention, this book--like its main character--will open up to you and reward you greatly for your time.

#bookblr #nicole reads #god I had a tag for these wrap-ups hold on #ah I did NOT have a specific tag for these okay #favorite books #end-of-year book wrap-up #there we go

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too-many-rooks · 1 year ago

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Spoiler warning: Long rambly notes I took while watching season 3, disclaimer that a lot of this is just character moments/lines I found interesting and initial bones of an au idea for a burgeoning, extremely self indulgent slightly-darker-Alex in season 3 wip I’ve started.

Also it was the middle of the night and I was very tired and wired out of my gourd on some mix of cheap white wine and floods of hyperfixation-sourced dopamine. Also also I only started taking notes at ep 3?

Episode 3

Alex is SUCH a better spy this season than when he began even in the first few episodes prior to SCORPIA training he’s more careful and precise and the team feels better organised - he did so well on that boat I’m so proud of my baby

I’m actually enjoying Tom and Kyra fucking about more than I expected. Tom pulling Kyra together after the boat explosion suprised me by how emotive it was. But I do want them to.. go away. Alex should more isolated/desperate/have NO other choices than SCORPIA.

Everything in Malagosto seems so staged to just see how Alex will react to it all - here’s an unlocked door, here’s an Alex sized vent and a dead spot in the cameras, what are you gonna do about it? +Alex absolutely speaks French I think he’s just not giving that away yet

Oh yes yes lingering bad touch from Julia Rothman hitting the right notes even though that costume is a WILD kaftan moment. Evil carmen sandiago/noir femme fatale aesthetic where are you I miss you so much

Ohhhh Julia saying Ian walked away and abandoned him and that was what hit him worst oh my goooooooooood

(Outfit change from julie mean day change or is she just a multiple outfits a day kinda person. Believable, I guess)

Julia’s gaslighting I ssoooo crazy ‘we trust you. We want you.’ After having his closest people not trust him, and now maybe questioning if Ian even wanted him!

Julia fucking loved this, she’s totally thrilled by her own power. Queen 👸🏻.

God Jones and the department is going THROUGH IT THIS SEASON, just suddenly surrounded by corpses

Julia : offers irrefutable proof, upsets him, then presses him to continue believing what he did before and belittling his objections - very subtle but more firm tone of voice, less motherly/accepting, very clear that the noose around Alex’s neck is always there.

She’s so delighted at the prospect of making Alex into the perfect soldier

Julia: “I want you to meet your tutor”

Me: ‘here he here he comes here he comes.’ And then I threw of my blanket, pushed myself onto my knees, and started bouncing and palm clapping in sheer delight. I basically never happy stim like this but MY GOD the flood of dopamine is IMMENSE.

More manic laughter at the start of episode 4 realising I’m about to see John and young Yassen. Nicuragua! 18 years ago!

God nervous baby Yassen with a gun

HES!! SO!!! BABY!!!

Baby boy already got his colour scheme locked down

Baby Yassen has curls - is it just the humidity or maybe does he have naturally curly hair that he straightens so he looks less cute?

Johns actor has a real resemblance to Ian (and Jack Lowden) but less so to otto

Ohoho scar moment scar moment bc Yassen was nervous and fucked up two people one bullet

“Close your eyes” as I tell these people I’m going to shoot you and have faith

God cut to adult Yassen WATCHING ALEX SLEEP LOOKING SO INTENSE

“Leave the past behind us.” “Ian rider was a professional. It was not personal it was my job.” “Think of this as a school and your dead by the end of the day” (actual honesty for the first time)

Alex not committing to being able to work with Yassen is perfect

Yassen taking Alex TO HIS KNEES so easily besties not been slowed down too much by a bullet to the chest

Soaking wet!!!!!!!!

Alex shooting scene amazing, as was Yassen bursting into his room immediately after for a murder pep talk. Alex has no privacy privileges from Yassen

Yassen removing the humanity from his targets, names/faces/lives are irrelevant, they are just blank targets. “One day you’ll have to murder them.”

“That’s not gonna happen”

Yassen *be so ffr rn face*

Really interesting to see the other side of the department covering up an agent death and lying to the family - I like the department with more humanity/emotional resonance than pure ruthlessness

Shitty Malagosto communal dorm room and matching drab grey hoodies my beloved

Shame there’s no ‘your not afraid of a little prick are you?’ ‘I wouldn’t call you that’ line. (But switching out the ‘getting vaccinated will implant you with secret nano tech that will kill you’ plottline probs a good idea)

Ooooh Julia creepily poisoning him so excited making me think of her delighting in drugging him in a cocktail of ‘let me take care of you’ ways

Yassen pulling rank to break up the fight!!

Ooh Nile wants to take down Yassen so bad.

Toms film skills coming in clutch recording/ documenting things so Alex will be taken seriously, glad to see him be… less of a dead weight to the team

Begrudgingly-impressed-at-Alex Yassen, even with the “come on that’s a bad idea”, “yeah, but!” Teenagerisms

Yassen’s core (suppressed) emotions: fear, doubt, panic

Alex: love, hope, friendship (okay dear, 🙄 but remember you’re literally becoming an assassin why are you so niave all of a sudden?)

Alex insisting John saved him bc he had compassion and was his friend and that Yassen’s rejection of that makes him lonely oh oh my heart my heart

I LOVE how much fun Nile has being evil at his job of threatening children.

Episode 5

Oh my god HIT HIM ALEX where do you think you are? How do you think you’ll actually manage to get those trainees to trust you? Stop whining and hit the man with a wooden sword, christ

Smithers (in reference to Alex) “he’s out there being a teenager because of us” *cut to Alex, very much in danger, contemplating his capacity to kill*

Julia: “no one leaves,” [scorpia, me, interchangeable to her]

mission with Yassen!

Packing for the mission with Yassen!!!

Yassen can’t read his handwriting!!!

“You’ve put… lockpick?”

“I left my last one in Nile. “

Alex bitching about his meagre gadgets at point Blanc 💯

Matching tactical turtlenecks!!!

“I don’t want you to fail. I don’t want you to die.”

Alex and Yassen are a team but Yassen gives Alex command of them oh boysieeeee

Again glad they dropped the vaccine bit: vaccines aren’t dangerous, but vaping is!!

Of on a road trip with Yassen!!

A murder road trip!

Love Kyra seeing the shot and the body - I know why it didn’t happen but I do kinda wish for a more corrupted violent Alex coerced/bargained into firing it himself

That Tom confrontation was great - I do want to see it as like a ‘your getting in my way’ intentional cruelty to push him away and keep him safe when Alex is too deep in SCORPIA to be deluded about thinking he can go home

Alex rejects intimacy with Julia and she cracks down her authority ‘no one leaves’

Ep 6

Love Alex spooky in the cemetery, SCORPIA hot on his heels

Sharing a grotty safe house together god SO GOOD

“We trust each other. You should try it sometime.”

“If it’s not emotional why do you do it?”

“Because it’s my job. (Identity/life/personal connections/sacrificed everything for) I work for SCORPIA. I’m good at it. You could be too.” Olive branch of intimacy - wants alex to be more like him, so they can be equals, can share this life that he apparently finds satisfaction in, not thinking or making decisions beyond how best to achieve his goal/finish the task(/order)assigned to him/subject himself to feeling emotions/thinking about his life beyond his attempts to depersonalise himself as just a weapon - just a professional with no emotions, and that that is fundamentally who he is. Evidently having some inconvenient feelies about Alex tho.

Oh no his delivery disguise makes him look like a caveman. Glad he took off the accessories for the Jones confrontation, his hair actually looks great there all tousled. (Beginning to realise how important characters hair is to me bc I still hate Julia’s I want some dark perfect waves this Bob is ough)

I’m really glad they settled on Yassen NOT knowing about John - he twists it that John didn’t betray him bc he had nothing to gain from being kind to him, so it wasn’t false, but he is so 100% loyal to John, eager to twist any criticism. I do wish we’d seen more of their relationship, but expecting some Russian roulette bits was overly optimistic

“I know my place” he’s IMMEDIATELY off to rescue his boy (actually, where did he go? All of that last episode I was just WHAT ABOUT YASSEN? Was he just plotting a rescue that didn’t need to happen and waiting for his boy to show up?)

Dare I say… good for blunt? Stephen dillane is just so charming I can’t help but like him. And you see some flashes of his ruthlessness like when he talks to Greif but he’s not a 24/7 conniving monster. Also Jones in charge and Alex possibly (definitely) returning to spy work in a couple of years? I like that. Totally abandoning it would have felt unsatisfying.

Loved that moment on the roof - missed opportunity for them to awkwardly wave at each other, but I’m so happy I predicted wrongly and Yassen gets to live and walk away and put down his weapons. There’s so much space for how they can reconnect in that.

#alex rider #alex rider spoilers #Alex rider season 3 spoilers

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kmomof4 · 9 months ago

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Happy Birthday, Joni!!!

Today is the birthday of one of my fandom besties, @jrob64!! Joni, I love you so much and I so hope your birthday is filled with every good thing!!! You are a tremendous blessing in my life and I hope this gift tells you how much you mean to me!

Unfortunately, I didn't have an idea for a fic to write for you this year 🥺. I think it was the year before we met and became friends that I made fic rec lists for birthday presents, so I thought I'd do the same for you this year! So, in no particular order, here are my favorites of all the fics you've written.

Devastation and Healing- the fic we became friends over when I apparently yelled at you for something in it - I do not remember what that something was, because there were a lot of somethings in that fic... but you do remember what that something was, as you've occasionally reminded me. This fic will always hold a very special place in my heart, though, as the fic that brought you into my life!!! Summary: Sergeant Killian Jones has had more than his share of tragedy in his life. When he’s injured in an IED explosion, he’s assigned to a physical therapist named Emma Swan. While she tries to help him heal physically, can they help each other heal emotionally? Rated M, 24chs, almost 90k

One Thrill Ride Leads to Another Inspired while on our very first vacay together with Marta and Jen, you wrote this one for Marta's bday!! And what a ride it was!!! Just delightful in every way!!! Summary: While working at Universal’s Islands of Adventure, Killian Jones meets Emma Swan, slips his name and number into her phone, and later sends her a text asking her out. His snap decision could lead to her blocking his number, or to an adventure much more thrilling than a ride on a roller coaster. Rated M, 6chs, 42k

Rescuing the Princess This one was SUCH FUN!!! How you managed to include elements from so many fairytales is still just astounding to me!!! Summary: Twenty-eight years after Princess Emma of Misthaven is kidnapped by the Evil Queen, Pirate Captain Killian Jones attempts to rescue her in order to earn the substantial reward offered by her royal parents. A CS Fairytale Mash-up AU featuring Beauty and the Beast, Sleeping Beauty & Tangled, with a sprinkling of The Princess Bride thrown in for good measure. Rated T, 3chs, 19k

Sowing Seeds of Trust Such a BEAUTIFULLY written, tugging on the heartstrings tearjerker!!! Love this one soooo much!!! Summary: Emma Swan is a young woman without a family, friends, a home, and now a boyfriend after he tries to pin his crime on her. When she goes looking for help from a local charity at a church, she ends up meeting a group of people, including a handsome blue-eyed man, who offer her friendship...and a whole lot more. Rated M, 19chs, 120k

Silly Songs with Killian Of course you know about my Captain Cobra weakness, and this one just checks all the boxes. Too adorable for WORDS!!! Summary: After a frustrating and exhausting day, Emma Cassidy is relieved when her little boy, Henry, is entertained by a gorgeous musician at a restaurant, giving her a chance to sit back, relax, and enjoy the music (and the view!) It gets even better when the singer, Killian, sings some of Henry’s favorite Silly Songs from his favorite videos, Veggie Tales. Rated T OS, almost 4k.

For the Sake of Henry Another fic featuring Captain Cobra pretty prominently that tugs on the heartstrings RELENTLESSLY!!! BEAUTIFULLY done!!! Summary: Killian Jones is a third grade teacher concerned about one of his students, Henry Cassidy. When he has to make a report to the Office of Child and Family Services about the possible neglect and abuse of the boy, the person sent to investigate is Emma Swan. While both of them have Henry’s welfare at heart, there may be other matters of the heart involved neither one expected. Rated M, 11chs, 71k.

Where Her Heart Belongs Series The first fic in this series was absolutely BRILLIANT, and then the second one for my bday was PERFECT in EVERY WAY!!! I love them both SOOOO MUCH!!!! Summary: In the Land Without Magic, Emma Swan is quietly living her solitary life. When she finds a unique storybook in the library, strange things begin to happen. A canon divergent story which started out based on the movie "Somewhere in Time", but evolved into something else entirely. Two OS, Fic 1 is rated T, 2 is M, combined word count is 15k.

The Mystery Carver of Storybook The first fic you wrote for my birthday was such fun!!! Just a glimpse of their happy beginning that made my heart sooooo happy!!! Summary: Killian finds ways to cheer Emma up after Henry leaves to seek his own adventure. In the process, he creates a huge mystery for the residents of Storybrooke. Rated M, OS, 4k

Lunch Is On Me Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know... I wasn't happy that this one had such a sad premise, but the whole thing really is just soooo sweet and beautiful! Going back to visit Liam at every stage in their relationship was just so precious, its place in my heart is cemented. Summary: Emma Swan makes a mistake when ordering a DoorDash delivery and tells the driver to keep the food for himself. The response she gets moves her to tears and has her hoping to meet the man in person someday. Rated T, OS, 3500 words.

Of course our Girls Vacay Fic Collection is a favorite... 😏😜 I'm sure you're completely surprised by that... Summary: When Emma Swan and her friends go on their annual girls’ vacation, they meet a group of guys who seem to keep turning up in the same places. Pranks, yearning looks and romance ensue.

A collaborative story by snowbellewells, jdmusiclover, kmomof4 and jrob64, based on our very own girls’ trip (without the guys, sadly). 3 fics are now in the collection, all rated T, combined WC 39k

I Loved You First I know you're so surprised about this one, too... a birthday fic for me featuring my second favorite relationship on the show... absolutely precious. Summary: Emma and her father share some special sentiments with each other before he walks her down the aisle to marry her True Love. A canon compliant missing moment for 6X20, just prior to Emma and Killian's wedding. Rated G OS, 1100 words.

Long Overdue Conversations are just long overdue and are very much canon in my mind. Summary: A series of conversations between characters of Once Upon a Time which I wish we would have seen in canon, but didn’t. Ratings will be stated in the author's note at the beginning of each part. Different ratings for each of the 4chs, almost 7800 words.

And finally, this years CSSNS fic, Ghosted, even if it's not finished yet... is SO COMPELLING, and while I pretty well know what's going to happen just from all our conversations, I am on the EDGE OF MY SEAT and SCREEEEEEEEEEAMMMMMMMMMINNNNNNNNNNG for Neal's blood now for how many chs? I can't WAIT to see how you finish it all up!! Summary: When Emma Swan’s ex-boyfriend dies, she’s haunted by his ghost. Her neighbor, Killian Jones, a ghost hunter who has a YouTube channel, realizes what’s happening and offers to help. However, there’s more at stake than simply helping the apparition move on. There’s also the matter of Killian telling Emma he’s in love with her. Rated M with 3chs posted so far, 20k.

So there we go, my friend! A birthday fic rec list of all my favorite of your fics!! All of your fics are absolutely wonderful, but these are the ones I love the most. Happiest of birthdays, my friend!! Love you!!!

#happy birthday joni #birthday post #cs fic recs

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oroniel · 2 months ago

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So, question: What got you into Tolkien?

(tagged by @conundrumoftime, and thank you for the opportunity to ramble about this topic! Tagging @helenvader, @coraleethroughthelookingglass @shady-swan-jones and @lassieposting, with apologies if you've been tagged before. Also inviting anyone who wants to do it, even if you haven't been tagged!)

My very first brush with Tolkien was probably my parents' friends' cat, when I was tiny. These friends were big fantasy fans and they had a gray cat named Gandalfa. They stuck the "a" on the end because they thought the cat was a boy, but it turned out she was a girl. I liked that cat and my parents' friends were happy to explain to me that she was named after a wizard in a book that they were sure I would one day read and enjoy.

When I was 9, I found a copy of Fellowship of the Ring in my mom's childhood bedroom at my grandparents' house. I was still young enough that when I started to read that introduction, with the pseudo-scholarly history of hobbits, I was uncertain whether it was a fiction or non-fiction book. I thought it was just possible that maybe I had somehow missed the fact that there was a whole race of short people called hobbits out there somewhere, and I was immediately curious and enchanted. Of course, very quickly I got to the wizard Gandalf and realized this was the fantasy book my parents' friends had been discussing. That sense of wonder, though, remained. I was hooked.

My initial and enduring delight in reading Lord of the Rings revolved around the trekking-around-the-wilderness aspect of the story. I distinctly remember thinking that the whole point of the story was wilderness survival, except with dramatic magical things thrown in. I'm not sure how much I got out of that initial read other than this, even as a precocious reader. To this day, though, that's one of the things I love most about the story. A few years later, I reread the whole series and understood that there was more going on. I don't think I actually read The Hobbit until I was well into my teens.

When I was 14, I found a copy of the Silmarillion on the shelf of a very cool family for whom I babysat. I was immediately so thrilled at the prospect of more elf stories, and by then I was heavily into world mythology, so I understood right away what Tolkien was doing with all of the many references to world mythological traditions. I was working on my own world-building project by that time and I kept returning to the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales as I built my own world's deep history and myths.

I was also immediately in love with Galadriel as portrayed in these works. The mentions are so brief, but it was so obvious that there was a history of rebellion and defiance, and yet she maintained her integrity and convictions. To me this was less a story of overcoming temptation to power, and more a story of just staying true to her own ideas despite whatever was going on around her. Between Galadriel and Eowyn, I managed to survive a miserable high school experience that involved being sexually harassed by my English teacher and almost getting kicked out of school when I stood up to him. I am not kidding when I say that in very real ways, thinking about these characters helped keep me alive.

I somehow didn't see the movies until after I'd read all of the books. I'm forever grateful for that, because while I love the movies, I love the ideas and mental images that the books themselves inspired.

I later re-read the series, in my 20s, and went through a "Dear god this whole story is about mourning the fall of the British Empire and the end of colonialism, isn't it?" phase. It was especially present for me at that time because I was living in Asia and all the talk about "swarthy easterners" and hordes of mindless orcs were hard to take. I have not forgotten the racism present in the work, and I think it's something we should acknowledge and discuss, especially since these elements of the story have been used by right-wing propagandists for decades to recruit young men to their ranks. But I do not believe that Tolkien was including these racist elements out of explicit endorsement of these views, and I have made some form of peace with still loving many aspects of his work.

A bit later, I started following a graphic artist for one of her works, but she was also in to drawing Angbang comics. Her takes were humorous, the art was beautiful, and it reminded me again of the many possible subversive interpretations of Tolkien (it also reminded me that when I first read the Silmarillion, I thought, "Wow, Sauron is weirdly sexy and seems very gay in this. I love that.") Her work brought me to Tumblr and the world of Tolkien fan art. I also started leading some very intense backcountry expeditions at this time, and I delighted in secretly thinking about the Fellowship setting out on their adventures as I embarked on mine (though I did not bring this up with the burly guys I was traveling with).

I was initially not interested in watching Rings of Power, and in fact I was barely aware of it, but then I saw promotional photos of Disa and was immediately captivated by the idea that we were getting female dwarves. And characters of color! A fact that matched a lot of my early imaginings of Tolkien's world. Then I realized Galadriel was a central protagonist, and I watched the first episode and felt like my personal vision of the character who had kept my teenage self sane through all the misery of high school was suddenly right there in front of me. I fell in love with Morfydd Clark's Galadriel and then I was hooked on the whole thing.

It also took me back to a lot of daydreams I'd had about storylines for Galadriel and Celeborn back when I first read the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, which inspired me to start writing fanfiction, which brought me to this lovely community! So I'm very grateful for the people I've met through a shared appreciation for Tolkien.

Okay, that is my very long personal history of Tolkien fandom! Love the opportunity to write all of this out and I love reading other people's stories, so I look forward to seeing more of these.

#tolkien #self indulgent rambling about personal history

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tllgrrl · 2 years ago

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Snitches by @tllgrrl aka Nefertiri Jones & @shellyac75 aka Shellyac

Captain America/Sam Wilson & White Wolf/Bucky Barnes | Rated: G

Summary: “I know what I’m doing, Sam. It’s not nearly as far as that time when I—what…what’s that? Waitaminute. Who are you calling?”

Sam looks Bucky dead in his blue-grey eyes and says the last two words Bucky wanted to hear right now:

“Hey, Sarah?”

* * * * * * * * * *

“Cap, Buck…I mean Sarge. COMM Check. We’re at altitude. Coming up on Jump Point in 60…”

Sam sets the volume on his COMM. “Thanks, Torres. Loud and clear.”

Bucky, following Sam to the door of the plane, grabs a COMM device, puts it in his own ear, and throws a thumbs-up at Torres.

“Look. I’m just saying. You better not jump outta this plane without—and I don’t care if it won’t kill you. I know you’ve done it before, but I’m telling you, Buck! I don’t want to have to hear about it from—”

“You don’t—“

“I mean it, man. Don’t make me do this…”

He pulls something out of a hidden upper mid-chest pocket of his suit.

“I know what I’m doing, Sam. It’s not nearly as far as that time when I—what…what’s that? Waitaminute. Who are you calling?”

Sam looks Bucky dead in his blue-grey eyes and says the last two words Bucky wanted to hear right now:

“Hey, Sarah?”

“Sarah?!? Are you kidding me? You’re telling Sarah on me? How old are you?!?”

“Yeah, Sis. No, no! Everything’s fine. But Bucky—“

“OKAY! Okay! I’ll get a ‘chute, DAD!”

Torres, watches the whole scene, trying to look like he’s keeping an eye on the digital display so Bucky won’t see him laughing. It’s always something between those two. They’re comedy gold. Even more now that Bucky’s dating Sam’s sister.

“Here. See? I’m gonna put it on. Now, hang up the pho—no wait, gimme that—“

[His voice changes, going softer and sweet.]

“Hey, baby? It’s me. Ou konnen mwen sonje w, wi?

Thanks, sweetness. I been practicing. Yeah, I miss you too—“

“Man, shut up.”

[Sam grabs the phone and pushes Bucky out of the plane, not even partially buckled into his parachute.]

“Au revoir, cyborg.

Sarah? Hey, guess what Bucky did…”

Later that evening…

“Yeah, Baby. I figured you saw it. Sam got Redwing to…yeah…in 4K.

I know I promised I wouldn't do that anymore, I just forgot at first…

But I did have my parachute! I was about to put it on, then Sam pushed me out of the plane.

I'm really sorry, nandi. It won’t happen again. Hug the boys for me—hey, they didn’t see—? Good. Don’t want them to…yeah, get ideas!

Ok I'll tell him. Ndiyakuthanda, sweetness. Bye.

Hey, Samuel? Sarah said to tell you a’ight bet.”

“I'm a dead man.”

* * *

The next day…

“Hey, Sam, Torres says we’re stopping off in Wakanda before going back to Delacroix. Why?”

“Because I value my life enough to know that I gotta bring back something nice for Sarah so she'll actually be happy to see me. If you were smart you’d do the same.”

“I already got something that’ll make Sarah happy to see me when I get home.”

A few minutes later...

[Bucky opens his eyes and sees Redwing hovering above him, just out of reach.]

“Very funny, Sam. Oh! Hold on…”

“What…what’s that? Who’re you callin’?!”

“Hey, Sarah? Guess what Sam did…”

* * * * * * * * * *

Glossary

Ou konnen mwen sonje w, wi? (Haitian Creole) You know I miss you, yes?

Ndiyakuthanda (isiXhosa) I love you.

nandi sweet, tasty, delight

* * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: For now, Snitches is also posted HERE on AO3 for members. Hopefully they’ll get their whole AI thing worked out, but for now over there it’s locked unless you’re Registered.

#captain america #sam wilson #white wolf #bucky barnes #sam wilson & bucky barnes #capt. america & the white wolf #snitches #buckysarah #bucky barnes x sarah wilson #fleur de louve #fleurdelouve #shameless self reblog

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albertanimation · 6 months ago

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The Dover Boys at Pimento University; or, The Rivals of Roquefort Hall (1942) - Dir. Chuck Jones

In recent years, the cartoon most commonly known as The Dover Boys has reached a level of popularity that is fairly unusual for a cartoon from over 80 years ago, becoming a fairly well-known meme and even receiving a lavishly produced fan re-animation. I think in no small part this is due not only because of its release into the public domain, but for its irreverence, its unique animation style and of course, the patented hollering of Mel Blanc's vocal styling.

The Dover Boys parodies the now long defunct "Rover Boys" series of youth novels, a series of books written by Edward Stratemeyer under the pseudonym Arthur M. Winfield. Similarly to the short, the books feature three young students of a military boarding school as they cause pranks and mischief for authorities and criminals alike. Though long since passed from public awareness now, the Rover Boys books sold over a million copies and left an indelible mark on American pop culture at the time.

Despite its recent popularity, information on the production of The Dover Boys is surprisingly hard to find these days, likely due to the fact that it was produced fairly quickly and cheaply. Allegedly, Chuck Jones was expected to produce 10 cartoons a year and had "run out" of good ideas by the end of 1942. Thus, The Dover Boys was animated in order to be made as efficiently as possible, most notably through the use of an animation technique called "smear frames".

In order to "cheat" the effect of a rapid movement of a character, simulating motion blur in a real camera shot, characters were smeared between key poses to make pose to pose animation seem more lively and snappy, utilized in this cartoon through dry-brushing. Although this technique existed in cartoons in the 1930s, The Dover Boys was the first cartoon which used it so notably and frequently. This, combined with other cost cutting measures such as long panning shots of the stylized painted backgrounds by uncredited artist Gene Fleury with no visible characters, and the "sweet Dora Standpipe", the Dover Boys' supposedly dainty object of affection, whose slim-fitting dress causes her to glide comically through her scenes, conveniently not requiring expensive-to-animate walk cycles. This reduced style is now known as "limited animation", and while controversial at the time is now widely utilized by most modern animated productions to help reduce costly animation budgets.

My personal favourite aspect of the cartoon, however, is its preposterous and hilariously animated villain: Dan Backslide, described by the unctuous narrator as a "coward, bully, cad and thief". Visually based on Warner Bros animator Ken Harris, his wiry frame, slicked hair, effeminate cigarette holder and inexplicably green skin make every scene he is in a delight to behold. It may also be my absolute favourite Mel Blanc performance in all of Looney Tunes history, and considering the breadth of the man's career that's really saying something. There's just something about the particular cadence of his screams that put me in hysterics every time.

youtube

However, reaction to the cartoon at the time was slightly less glowing than modern views. According to Jones, Warner Bros. studio executives were displeased with his innovative animation techniques, stating "They hated it, and if they hadn't been block-booking theatres, they would have withheld it and thrown me out." Their attempts to fire him were curtailed, however, by a labour shortage stemming from the ongoing war at the time, and so Jones continued directing for Warner Bros until 1962.

In modern years, The Dover Boys is regarded as being hugely influential for its unique, stylized look and innovative animation techniques, and it was included in the 50 Greatest Cartoons of All Time. Rediscovered by a younger generation after it was released into the public domain through the internet, it quickly became a brief online sensation for its bizarre non-sequitur humour and rapid-fire pacing. In 2018, a collaboration of independent animators reanimated the entire cartoon as a celebration of its 76th Anniversary. Though viewed as a relatively disposable parody at the time, it has since gone on to long outlive the subject of its mockery.

Sources:

The 50 Greatest Cartoons: As Selected by 1,000 Animation Professionals - Jerry Black

Frame by Frame: A Materialist Aesthetics of Animated Cartoons - Hannah Frank

http://likelylooneymostlymerrie.blogspot.com/2015/08/383-dover-boys-at-pimento-university.html

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kaftan · 2 years ago

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Longish post on a discovery regarding lesbianism and the 1001 Nights (again)

So I was trying to track down an online version of the story of qamar al-zaman and the princess boudour (from 1001 nights) and I instead ran into this delightful webpage which has links to so many relevant scholarly articles about it??

https://www.alpennia.com/lhmp/lhmp-event-person/qamar-al-zaman-and-princess-boudour

Here’s a sample of some of them:

LHMP #384 Bosman 2021 ’I Am Not Good at Any of This’ Playing with Homoeroticism in The Arabian Nights

This article looks at two stories within the 1001 nights that set up scenes of apparent homoeroticism due to gender disguise. In two romances—that of Qamar and Budur, and that of Ali Shar and Zumurrud—the woman disguises herself as a man during a period when the lovers are separated, and then when they are reunited and the disguised woman is in a position of greater social power, she teases her lover (who has not recognized her or even realized she is a woman) by demanding that he submit to her sexually (believing he is submitting to a man).

LHMP #383 Antrim 2020 Qamarayn: The Erotics of Sameness in the 1001 Nights

This article looks at how beauty and attractiveness and desirability are framed within the early manuscripts of the 1001 Nights as involving similarity rather than gender difference. While later editions, and especially translations and adaptations into western languages, tended to insert a more binary-gendered aesthetic into the descriptions of characters in the thousand and one nights, this is a conceptual shift from the early versions.

LHMP #135 Epps 2008 Comparison, Competition, and Cross-Dressing: Cross-Cultural Analysis in a Contested World

Epps considers themes in stories from The Thousand and One Nights that compare and contrast gender, particularly in terms of evaluating gendered ideas of beauty, and cultural framings of gendered responses to another’s beauty. The initial discusion covers a debate between two jinn (one male, one female) regarding whether boys or girls are more beautiful. On test that is suggested is which gender is least able to control themselves sexually on seeing the other. I.e., that greater beauty will more easily overcome self-control in the other.

And then I went to the website’s homepage and found this bio from the person who runs it?

Heather Rose Jones writes fantasy, historic fantasy, and historical fiction, including the Alpennia series with swordswomen and magic in an alternate Regency setting. She blogs about research into lesbian-like motifs in history and literature at the Lesbian Historic Motif Project which provides inspiration for her fiction. She has a PhD in linguistics, studying metaphor theory and the semantics of Medieval Welsh prepositions, and works as an industrial failure investigator in biotech.

(bolded text mine)

How was I unaware of the Lesbian Historic Motif Project, which is possibly 10000% my shit? Also, three of the articles on that page are of Sahar Amer’s work; how did I not know that the author who got me interested in medieval Arab lesbianism to begin with was/is a part of this??

Brb exploring this unexpected treaure trove, join me if you like!

#sometimes a little piece of heaven falls right into your lap and you can only offer fervent thanks for it #i need a yuri tag #i need a THEORY tag

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raeannabelle · 2 years ago

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Summary - Jonah is reunited with his wife when he returns home from a bounty, and she has a certain idea in mind of welcoming him home.

Warnings - smut 18+, gambling, cussing.

Word count - 8.9k

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Alright, I'll raise you four more!" Circled around a small salon table were four men, a crowd forming as Angela refused to fold her hand in the poker game that had been going on for hours now.

"Deal." She'd smile, smug as ever as she slid four more pieces into the center on the table, waiting for the other men before her to take their turn.

"Alright that's it, I fold. I'm not gonna let a woman rob me of everything I've got." The older man, a friend of Jonahs, would throw his cards on the table. The five cards laid out to be a straight, a good hand but still not enough to end the women's winning streak.

"She's got to be bluffin'." Another man would call, leaning over his friend's shoulder as he waited for the woman to finally call it.

She wouldn't though, having learned poker from Mick and perfecting it through history she was a hard one to crack. Always having the perfect poker face. As the town doctor, by the name of Jones, walked into the salon however she'd quickly be finishing up her game. Ending the torment she was causing the men playing against her.

"Your bounty hunter just got back into town, I'm sure he'll be lookin' for ya after bein' gone so long." His southern accent was heavy, being one of the oldest still alive in the small town of Salvation.

The determination in her blue eyes would quickly turn to excitement as she turned to call the game. "Alright boys, I'm all in." Laying down her cards and sliding in her chips she'd reveal a royal flush, earning grumbles and curses from the men as they pulled out the money in their pockets.

"Good game boys. I'll have to come back and show you how it's done again." With a wink and a kiss to the old doctor's cheek Angela would jump on her black and white mustang to set off towards her house.

She hadn't been in Salvation for too long, but luckily the people already knew who she was. And now that she had decided to stay permanently they had all welcomed her with open arms, keeping her company when Jonah left town on bounties.

Their small cabin was situated just on the edge of town, the only green left in the area serving as her backyard. She had learned all kinds of things since moving in full time, like gardening and cooking. Things she needed to know to survive in the west.

When she'd finally make it home she'd be delighted to see Jonah's Tennessee Walker already tied up outside, doing the same with her horse before quickly walking towards the front door. She'd enter quietly, assuming he had gone up to their room to change she decided to surprise him.

As the old stairs creaked under her feet she'd reach for the handle of their bedroom, opening it slowly before jumping in behind him unbuttoning his shirt. The sudden noise was enough to startle him and have him reaching for his pistol as he turned around to glare at her.

"Jesus christ Angela, I didn't see you come home."

His weapon would be back in its holster before she could properly hug him, just so that he could return the gesture tenfold even lifting her up in the process. "I missed the hell out of you. Both of you."

His hand would move from cradling her back to instead move her oversized shirt against her stomach to reveal a small bump. She had been doing her best to hide her pregnancy, but it was starting to get harder now that their son was growing like a weed.

"We missed you too." She'd smile, reaching up to cup his cheek before leaning up to peck against his lips. "I'm just happy you're home safe, you worry me so much every time you take a bounty so far away."

"Well knowing I'm coming home to you makes it easier. My woman, waiting to see me." He'd smile at the thought. "I'm glad we were finally able to manage this, us, I didn't want to worry about you traveling through time without me there makin' sure you were alright."

"Well now I have a piece of you everywhere I go." Rubbing her stomach she'd smile up at the man, before reaching up to toss his hat across the room. "A piece of you that won't get their foot out of my ribs, and is pushing on my bladder. They're getting harder to hide too, people have started asking questions."

They'd both been overjoyed when the doctor had told them she was pregnant, but once the realization came Jonah had warned her not to go around telling everyone yet. If people found out they might come for her, afterall his profession made him a lot of enemies.

"Not much longer. I just want to make sure nothing happens to either of you, because I don't want to have to go on a murder spree."

"That's too bad." Moving to unbutton the shirt he had just put on she'd look up at him with innocent eyes. "I think I might like you going crazy over me."

"I'm crazy enough for you already. Whole town is making fun of me now." They had been since he first started courting her.

He'd watch silently as she unbuttoned the last button, pulling the fabric down from his shoulders to join his other clothes on the floor. He hadn't expected her to meet him with this as soon as he got home, but he wasn't going to complain either. He had been waiting a long time to be able to come home to her after a shit job, and he was going to enjoy it now that he had her.

Running a hand up and down his chest she'd hum, looking over every scar and mark left behind from his fights until she'd stumble upon a new one. A bullet sized hole in his shoulder that he had patched up himself.

"Jonah. What happened?"

Before she could get too concerned he'd lean down to kiss her, hard enough to take her breath away as he let his tongue invade her mouth. He didn't need her worrying about him, not when it was his job to watch over her and his future child.

"Nothin you need to worry your pretty little head over. I'll be fine."

She'd look up at him as if considering arguing with him before sighing and snaking her hand around his neck instead, playing with the hair on his neck. As he'd lean down to kiss her again she'd moan, dropping a hand to unbuckle his belt and lower his jeans to his knees, something he'd have to kick off along with his boots.

As he'd come to realize she was still fully clothed he'd grumble, pulling away from her only long enough to unbutton and unzip all of her clothes so he could easily toss them with his own. He'd be happy to see her not wearing anything under her button up, licking his lips as her nipples perked from the cold air of their cabin.

"Damn. How did a man like me get so lucky?"

Lowering his calloused hand, he'd brush his finger across her breast before squeezing, listening to her moan.

"Jonah please, touch me. I've missed you so much." Pushing against his hand she'd press herself up against him, lowering a hand to squeeze against his briefs. As he'd buck into her hand she'd take that as permission to rid him of the final thing keeping him hidden, moaning when she'd watch his member spring free.

She'd be happy to let him have the reins, pulling off her underwear as he helped her up into their bed. It was old enough to squeak under their weight, shifting when he'd tower over her small form. "Did you miss me when you were gone?"

"You know I did."

Letting her legs fall apart she'd be on full display for him, peering over her baby bump at his blue eyes as she lowered a hand to spread herself apart for him to see. "Show me how much."

He wouldn't hesitate to oblige, groaning as he'd watched her play with herself before moving her hand away to be replaced by her own. After a few simple circles he'd have her shaking under him, bucking up into his hand and she mumbled out nonsense. He loved seeing her like this, needy and desperate for him.

Jonah would move his hand away before she could find her release, earning a whimper from her before he'd silence it with another kiss. As it would grow heated he'd start to pump himself against her leg, getting ready to push inside of her after making sure she could handle him.

As his tip would glide between her folds she'd have to bite her tongue to keep from moaning too loud, looking at him with pleading sky blue eyes as she tried to pull him down against her with her legs that were wrapped around his waist.

He wouldn't make her wait much longer, getting his shaft wet from her near orgasm before sliding inside of her. He'd take her pleads and whimpers as permission to keep going, slowly thrusting himself against her until he was completely buried inside.

"Please. I need you so bad, don't stop please." Her pleas would barely be audible as he quietly shushed her with another kiss. This one being more loving and slow as he began to rock his hips against her own, in a steady motion.

The longer she'd be squeezing around him the harder he would find it to keep his pace slow, speeding up every time she'd ask him to or he'd see her eyes roll to the back of her head.

By the time they were both about to reach their highs he'd be thrusting against her so hard the bed frame would groan under every movement, hitting the wall behind them where small scratches were beginning to form. He'd only smile down at her though as her orgasm would come crashing down on her in waves, having her moaning out his name as he angled to hit even deeper inside of her.

"God damn. You feel like heaven Darlin', squeezing me like that. I don't think I'm gonna last much longer." He'd be telling the truth too as he'd see stars just after her, grunting with his forehead pressed against hers.

He'd slowly stop his motions, squeezing against her hips as he pulled out. She'd be leaking out onto their bed as soon as his shaft would go limp against her stomach, already carrying their child and having no room left for anything else he'd give her.

"Let me run you a bath, don't move okay sweetheart."

Aftercare was something he took seriously, wasting no time in running her a hot bath so she could soak in the tub, even carrying her into their bathroom so she wouldn't have to walk.

"I guess you really did miss me." She'd smile, letting him get into the water first before she'd lay back against his chest in the porcelain tub.

"Like hell." He'd admit, kissing her shoulder with a smile as his hands came to rest against her stomach again.

She'd be happy laying there with him for hours, soaking in the time she got with him whether it was spent being intimate or otherwise. As his hands would cup her belly she'd let her smaller ones fall over his, smiling at the thought of their son kicking against them.

"I've been talking to the other ladies and I think I've decided to have them here. Naturally with you and the doctor." If they could do it after all then why couldn't she?

"Are you sure about that? What if something goes wrong, I don't know the first thing about delivery and Mr. Jones is definitely not Gideon."

She'd chuckle, leaning back to properly look up at him with a smile. "We can have the legends on standby. But I want to do what my body was meant to do, naturally without any help." Thinking for a moment she'd decide. "How hard can it be anyways?"

Words she'd definitely be regretting in the coming months.

#legends of tomorrow #jonah hex #x oc

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