#the characterization of Jason?

[whipbogard]

Just finished Gotham Knights

Many thoughts but here's a quick doodle of the bestest boy ever ❤

[ashoss]

dad said it was my turn with juni ba's jason

[necrotic-nephilim]

as much as I love the common "Tim worships/stalks Jason" trope in TimJay fanfiction because it's Good and making Tim a weird little freak is Fun, I think the underutilized dynamic is where Jason is the one weirdly obsessed with Tim and makes it Tim's problem.

Like, the moment Jason is confronted with the information that a third Robin exists, the first thing he does is cover his wall with pictures of Tim so he can just obsess and torture himself over it. That is the behavior of a man who is Unwell over Tim's existence and I love it.

red hood: lost days #4

And as much as a shitshow as The Titans Tower Incident™ is characterization-wise (though I think it has far more merit in depicting Jason's character than people give it credit for but I digress-) there's something very fun about the fact that even after kicking his ass, Jason respects Tim and is impressed by him.

teen titans (2003) #29

And on top of that, Jason can't seem to stop trying to ask Jason to Tim to work with him in some capacity.

robin (1993) #177

batman: battle for the cowl #2

While Battle for the Cowl is an exceptionally bad comic, especially for its characterization of Jason and the "be my Robin" bit is taken deeply out of context, I do think it's interesting how obsessed Jason is with believing that Tim is extremely competent, only held back by being "brainwashed by Bruce". (hence him leaving Tim for dead later on in the comic.) Jason seeing a darker side of Tim and wanting to bring that out of Tim, wanting to see what Tim could be if he let go of his loyalty to Bruce is so fun to me, tbh.

And in Robin #177, Jason seems genuinely upset Tim doesn't want to work with him. Jason sees such a raw potential in Tim and is obsessed with it, constantly wanting Tim to work for him and see Tim be the type of person Jason is. And despite Tim rejecting him, Jason doesn't shoot to kill Tim. I just cannot get over the fanfic potential of Jason obsessing over Tim, tracking him and seeing what he's capable of and what he could be capable of. Wanting to make Tim see things the way he does. To Tim it's corruption, to Jason it's freedom. Tim trying to 'save' Jason is fun and all, but Jason trying to corrupt Tim? That's even more fun to me. Watching that power struggle between them, Tim unable to get Jason off his heels as Jason gets more and more possessive and bold with each attempt.

And when Jason sees Tim successfully get Gotham back under control after a gang war, he's impressed. He praises Tim, even. And then Tim just. Breaks him out of prison.

robin (1993) #182

The way they're constantly trying to see something in the other that isn't there, hoping the other will come around? That is the most fucked up hate/love dynamic ever. Jason keeps coming back to Tim, keeps trying to find ways to get Tim onto his side. They're always chasing each other. And I think Jason would be the one to confess love first, the one to do anything to make Tim his. And when you consider after all of this, Tim has his Red Robin arc and is at his lowest, getting the closest he ever gets to considering murder? I think it'd be so fun to see Jason take advantage of that and worm his way back into Tim's life and finally push Tim over the edge.

[enviedear]

JASON TODD has become quite good at pushing people away, keeping his distance so he doesn't get hurt again. it’s second nature by now—detach, deflect, disappear. but with you, it’s like every wall he’s ever built starts crumbling the moment you look at him. he’ll find himself staring at his phone, rereading texts from you, overanalyzing the little things. did you mean something more when you told him “i miss you”? or are you just being nice?

and when you’re around, he’s hyper-aware of every detail—the way you laugh, the sound of your voice, how your hand sometimes brushes his arm like it’s no big deal, but it is to him. and that’s the problem. he’s spent years telling himself he doesn’t need anyone, that caring only leads to pain, but now he can’t stop. it’s like you’ve found a way under his skin, and no matter how hard he tries to fight it, thoughts of you lingers in the back of his mind.

what scares him the most is the realization that he’d do anything to keep you safe. anything. he’d put himself at risk, make enemies, burn bridges—hell, he’d burn the whole hellscape that is gotham city down if it meant protecting you. that’s not the kind of person he wants to be again, the one willing to sacrifice everything for someone else. but every time he tries to pull away, to put distance between you, it backfires. because the thought of losing you feels worse than anything else. and he’s not ready to face what that means, not yet.

[ayamari-no-goshi]

I’d like to clear up some common misconceptions about the Attack on Titan Tower, aka when Jason infiltrated it to attack Tim

If you want to read this for yourself, here are some links: readallcomics - I have the best luck with this site on destop zipcomic readcomicsonline - this site can be temperamental

1) Jason did not go there to attempt to kill Tim

Jason seems to have 3 separate goals for this: - size up the new kid. - make sure he knows Bruce just sees him as another soldier - prove to Tim just how dangerous the job is (heavily implied, in my opinion, especially after Tim tried telling Jason he was wrong about how Bruce saw him) He also voiced his anger over being forgotten by everyone. Depending on your interpretation of Jason and his character, this could also be a reason. To me, this feels more like an afterthought because they moved to the Hall of Fallen Heroes before he said this, and Jason likes to be dramatic.

Side note on this. Jason never says anything about being replaced.

2) none of Tim’s injuries were life threatening

Once again, Jason was not attempting to kill him. He beat him up pretty badly, but it was designed to prove a point

3) Jason did NOT cut Tim’s throat.

That happened during Hush which predates both Under the Red Hood and Titan’s Tower. Jason was pretending to be Hush, put a knife to Tim’s throat, and put enough pressure to make him bleed (it was not an actual slice) to get Bruce to react to him. That injury was not life threatening either

4) Jason developed a respect and a bit of envy for Tim after fighting him

At the end of the issue while he’s leaving (while outside the tower), Jason acknowledges Tim’s skill. Jason also wonders if he could have had a life more similar to his, where he had friends and a better support system, if he could have had a different life.

5) Tim was NOT a damsel in distress during the fight, and he did NOT develop a fear of Jason.

Tim was making quips and dissing Jason the entire fight. Tim was not afraid of him nor did he bat an eye at being attacked by Jason. He also vocalized just how much he had to work for his cape because of how Jason's death affected Bruce

Also, the next time Tim saw Jason after this, he made sure to kick Jason in the groin

6) Jason wrote "Jason Todd was here" and signed it with a hand print on the wall.

It looks like it could be in blood, but Tim's not injured enough for there to be that much... and blood darkens after a while. There's a bit of time between Tim getting knocked out and the rest of the Titans finding him and the writing so it's probably paint. Again, Jason likes to be dramatic

7) more Robin!Jason slander by Raven

Once again, we get the mention that Jason was "aggressive". I swear, this is the only thing writers remember from Death in the Family and not the point that that behavior was out of the ordinary for Jason. This is a personal pet peeve of mine in the comics.

8) almost forgot to add the most important part, Jason made a homemade Robin costume and wore it under his Red Hood outfit because he could

Again, Jason is a dramatic bitch.

[ahfrickenfrick]

i feel like duke would be seen as a mediator a lot for problems but he’s secretly creating some of them cause he’s bored/petty/vengeful

like oh, tim took too long getting into his suit resulting in condiment king spraying duke with ketchup, so suddenly his laptop was plucked of its stickers, he of course assumes it was jason or stephanie

or when dick knowingly came over when he knew he was sick, resulting in duke missing out on a field trip due to a 24 hour cold, so suddenly the patrol schedule never got to dick on time, making him think bruce was being prickly again, forcing him over to the manor more

one day when he’s bored he places clues and riddles all around the mansion all leading to either dead ends or starts to other riddles, just to see what they would do

i need more petty duke LMFAO

[fishfission-dc]

Batfamily Powerpoint Night! (Part 4: Jason)

<<Part 3: Tim    |    Part 5: Cass >>

[Masterlist]

Jason: Alright everyone get your hopes way down

Tim: I’m truly terrified of whatever you made for this

Dick: Let’s just be happy he participated!

Dick: Okay yeah nevermind

Bruce: Jason. This is-

Jason: Let’s just be happy I participated

Steph: If I’m not your favorite I’m rioting

Tim: Yeah this is the only right answer

Duke: He really does put up with way too much

Dick: Like childhood Bruce

Bruce: Hn. (in reluctant agreement)

Cass: (signs) I love you too :)

Damian: Cassandra is undoubtedly a very skilled combatant.

Steph: A rare good opinion from Jason

Jason: This is why you’re higher on the hate list

Duke: I am literally so honored, I would like to thank the Academy- 

Barbara: He called you “Nightlight”

Tim: And said your suit is ugly

Duke: I don’t even care. I’m too low on the hate list to care.

Dick: He said you’re going to snap?

Duke: I mean I don’t disagree

Tim: I’M THE FOURTH BEST?

Jason: After some new information learned in the previous presentation, Timmy should probably be a lot higher on the list. 

Steph: Oh calm down Timbo you barely got “tolerable”

Tim: HE TRIED TO KILL ME AND HE STILL LIKES ME BETTER THAN THE REST OF YOU

Barbara: Fair.

Dick: For the record, Jason, we are dating and I am not a cop anymore

Barbara: I still did date a cop though Dick he’s not wrong

Jason: See this is why she’s lower on the hate list than you

Barbara: You’re just scared to cross me

Jason: ...that too.

Tim: AHAAHAH

Damian: THIS IS UNFAIR

Steph: HAHHHAHHA

Damian: I AM NOT DONE GROWING YET TODD

Jason: You’re still short

Dick: It’s okay Damian, Jason was even shorter when he was your age!

Dick: ...crap.

Jason: Thank you for proving my point.

Tim: At least you’re not a cop anymore

Bruce: You broke his nose, Jason

Jason: He deserved it 

Steph: ...wait a minute

Tim: (laughing, in realization) You mean... no

Steph: guys wait no-

Steph: NO WAY AM I YOUR LEAST FAVORITE

Jason: THE F*@#%&$ YOGURT HAD MY NAME ON IT 

Steph: YOU CANT CALL DIBS ITS FIRST COME FIRST SERVE

[squabbling continues]

Dick: I’m surprised Bruce didn’t score the number one spot

Bruce: Hn. (in understanding)

Tim: I thought it’d be me honestly

Barbara: Oh come on, he loves all of us. He wouldn’t have come if he didn’t.

Cass: (signing) Agreed. I can go next?

<<Part 3: Tim    |    Part 5: Cass >>

[Masterlist]

[theghostkingisdead]

dpxdc - Neglected Child AU

As one of his first acts as Ghost King, Danny basically created ghost CPS. Mostly they help new spirits come to terms with the fact that they're dead, but situations like Danny's are a lot more common than the Observants had lead him to believe. People who come back from the dead or are exposed to large quantities of unstable ectoplasm often lead sad, short second lives. Either because they are unable to obtain the nutrients their new forms require, or because their communities turn against them in fear. This is a story about Jason Todd.

There was a lot Jazz loved about her job. She loved helping young ghosts find acceptance. She loved matching cases with foster Fraids. She loved meeting new people. She loved the rare excuse to travel dimensions. But some days, Jazz was intimately reminded of why this program was formed in the first place.

Knock, knock, knock.

Jazz looked up from her laptop. “Come in!”

Apple – the ghost of a dryad whose tree was chopped down two summers ago – poked her head in.

“Uh, Lady- I mean, Ms. Phan-, no,” Apple took a shuddering breath. Jazz smiled encouragingly. The girl had only been working here for a season, and already she was making excellent progress. “Ms. Jasmine, there’s a city spirit here to see you, uh, on behalf of a uh, potential client.”

“Thank you, Apple, you can send them in.” Jazz said.

Apple flushed green, closing the door with a sigh. Jazz guessed she had about two minutes before the impromptu meeting began. She used the time to sweep some papers off her desk and into a drawer. It had been some time since she’d had a walk-in like this. Jazz had a strict open doors policy when it came to her office, despite the technical fact that her door was often closed; it was just easier to focus that way! She had no idea why most ghosts preferred to submit claims by mail, really it was much better for them to speak with an officer in person.

Thirty years ago, Jazz would’ve had trouble describing the spirit that walked through the doors. Fifty years ago, even looking at it would’ve been painful. But Jasmine Duchess Phantom had been living in the Infinite Realms for almost eighty years now, and liminal senses reached out subconsciously, cataloging scents and colors that her mortal mind would have balked at.

The shape of a steel-colored skeleton peered out at her from a billowing cloud of grey smoke, which curled around its feet and seeped across the floor. Jazz tasted gunmetal and sugar, smelled stale urine and burned bread, felt desperation-fear-hunger-love crash violently against her. Like a cliff to a wave, Jazz stood her ground, letting herself be tested. This spirit was old and afraid; when it spoke, it spoke in a million overlapping voices.

“My apologies for barging in unannounced, Your Grace. I come before you with an issue of great import. One I have reason to believe our King may have a personal interest in.”

Jazz nodded, “My doors are always open, City Spirit. I’m always happy to help. But before I hear your petition, may I know who I am addressing?”

The skeleton did not move that she could see, but Jazz heard windchimes like chittering laughter.

“I am Gotham, Your Grace. My apologies for my rudeness. I have little reason to travel these days and am unaccustomed to necessary introductions.”

Jazz nodded, committing the name and its taste to memory. “No need to apologize, Gotham. Your situation is not unique amongst your kind. Have a seat,” Jazz gestured at the plush couch across from her desk. “What troubles you so, to bring you so far from home?”

There was more windchime tittering, and Jazz wondered if the spirit was laughing or just readjusting itself on a plane she could not see. A nervous tick, perhaps? Maybe she could send Apple for something to make Gotham feel more at ease. Bullet casings or chocolate chip cookies would be equally soothing to this entity, Jazz guessed.

Gotham folded into itself, form blurring slightly before reforming on the couch, leaned forward with elbows on knees. “Many years ago, a mortal man pledged himself to my service. I accepted him as a City Guard, my mortal Champion. This man has many children who have likewise pledged themselves to my protection.”

Jazz smothered the urge to interrupt. She loathed the idea of child Guards; the fact that this City Spirit was here now asking for help meant that this instance had gone just as well as it usually did.

Unaware of her internal judgement, Gotham continued. “The second child died and revived some seven years ago, I…” This time, the rattling sound emanating from Gotham shook the room with the force of a thunderclap. “You have to understand, I don’t claim kids as champions, so technically he was never even under my protection. And when he came back, he ran! I don’t have power outside the city, you know, so even if, well, it’s not like there was anything I could have done differently,”

Jazz was aware that she was frowning. She could only guess what her aura felt like to Gotham, whose smoky aura was rapidly thickening. A bird puffing itself up to look bigger. A cheap trick. If Jazz were in a more compassionate mood, she might have felt embarrassed at such a juvenile display from a spirit decades older than herself.

“You neglected a child, or-” she cut off Gotham before it could protest, “allowed a child to be neglected. For seven years. What changed? Why petition him now and not then?”

Gotham chittered, “Well, you see, he came back to me just over a year ago, retook his pledge and everything. And, well, things were rough, I thought the fraid was just readjusting itself, but, er-”

“Tell me.”

“Well, the problem is I don’t exactly know what the boy is anymore, but he’s more ghostly than not, and his fraid’s fully human. If this infighting between my Guards goes on for any longer, it’ll tear me apart. I figured The King might want to step in, considering this boy might be a halfa, maybe he could help him and the fraid get back to normal.”

Jazz grinned. “Rest assured, Gotham, The Crown will indeed be taking special interest in your case.” Words dripped from her lips, caustic even to her own ears. “Now, why don’t you go outside and give Apple the rest of the details. I have some visits to make.”

[thenonbinarydetective]

"There is canonical mischaracterization in the batfamily" and "they are nuanced characters that cannot be summed up in one word/phrase" are two things that can exist at the same time and more people need to remember that

[welcometogrouchland]

I understand that literature nerd Jason Todd is kind of overblown in fanon compared to it's actual presence in canon (a few issues during his pre (and post?)crisis Robin tenure that highlight it) BUT consider that I think it's hilarious if the unhinged gun toting criminal has strong opinions on poetry

[glitter-stained]

Woke up a hater today so shout-out to those three for failing beautifully at their goal:

Special shoutout to:

-Jim Starlin for trying to portray Jason as a bad kid and portraying a good kid with sensible issues considering his past trauma, who cares about victims and doesn't accept rapists getting away scot-free on technicalities

-Chip Zdarsky for trying to convince us Jason was always the one (and only one) in the wrong and feeding us a classist narrative and portraying Jason "accepting responsibility for his death" as a show of maturity, and instead portraying an accurate rendition of an abusive family dynamics

-Chuck Dixon for somehow, despite hating women and not wanting Dinah and Barbara's relationship to be interpreted in a romantic way, writing fun and intense super homoerotic Dinahbabs and feeding my lesbian ass

They really were right that minus times minus equals plus: the least favourite character of your least favourite writer can sometimes become your favourite character (if only that had worked for Morrison and Daniel too...) And Dixon's is just the funny, why are you writing blatant homoerotic stuff then getting mad it's pointed out lol (also shout-out for the artist of the infamous Dinahbabs panel, they truly understood the assignment.)

[mocking-the-bird]

He's like a street cat help

[aalghul]

the idea that jason being witty is less true to his character than him frowning constantly, shouting all the time, and only saying sentences that are 3/4 swears is so. i lose hope daily

[junimo-hexed]

I think I'm honestly tired of the happy vs angry Robin debate with Jason Todd especially because there really wasn't a Jason before his death. Now, now, lower those pitchforks. Let me explain with 4 simple words: Crisis on Infinite Earth. Okay, let me actually explain now. Jason wasn't really re-introduced until June 1987 in Batman #608 when he got his updated origin and because of that a majority of his post-crisis stories are still working with his pre-crisis characterization. Collins fundamentally changed Jason, but that version never got the chance to stick before Starlin who hated Jason came in, took over, and then killed him off. The Detective Comics writers didn't seem to get the memo of "hey, he's a scrappy street kid now" and for the 3 stories in between June 1987 and November 1988 he is still pre-crisis in personality.

Honestly, long of the short of it: characterize Jason as Robin however you want.

[playingplayer2]

Just for kicks, assigning Batfam members bands/songs from my own music tastes

Alfred - ASIA (Never Again, Days Like These, and Without You, Listen Children, Bury Me In Willow, and Nyctophobia)

Bruce - MCR (Welcome to the Black Parade and Helena) and It's Alright by Mother Mother, Drinking Song for the Socially Anxious by The Amazing Devil, and It Hurts Too Much To Speak by Lina Cooper

Babs - Paris Paloma (Bones on the Beach, Hunter, and Notre Dame)

Dick - The Crane Wives (Take Me to War, Never Love an Anchor, Canary in a Coal Mine, and How to Rest)

Cass - Little Dancer by Leroy Sanchez, Shallows by Daughter, and Luna by Iniko

Jason - Sleep Token or Autoheart (Dark Signs and Take Me Back To Eden // Wretch and Hungover in the City of Dust) AND Concrete Jungle by Bad Omens, King by Lauren Aquilina, Immortal by MARINA, Artificial Nocturne by Metric, and Finger on the Trigger by ASIA.

Steph - MARINA (Seventeen, Family Jewels, and Soft to be Strong)

Tim - Far Too Young To Die by P!atD, 100 Million Years by Taylor John Williams, and Detective Detective by Static-P

Duke - Come and Get It from Me by Sun Heat, Sunflower by Post Malone & Swae Lee, and Pompeii by Bastille

Damian - Heirloom by Sleeping At Last, Will I Find My Home by Juniper Vale & Vian Izak, and Language of the Lost by Riproducer

[notfeelingthyaster]

asking in a very neutral, gen way: what talia ever did in the comics to manage to gain fans/defenders? because everything i read just paints her as a villain and a bad mother, so...