I'm still trying to see this complexity that TG has, and that's why TG stans like them?? Alicent changes her opinion and personality every hour, is the complexity of her still having any consideration for Rhaenyra? not have imagined that a war would start? or just have the same crying expression? Please....!! What complexity does Helaena have? supposedly having dragon dreams and not knowing how to interpret them? the girl doesn't say anything in 1S and everyone just thinks she's weird, she doesn't do ANYTHING! Aemond's complexity is that he was bullied and became a presumptuous arrogant who killed his nephew? and I'm not even going to talk about Aegon..... he's an abusive drunk but yes.... he's a complex character
A)
I think that "interesting" for them is actually"potential for high drama, spectacle, and foolishness just because" for some TG stans who say the greens are more interesting. Yes, the green side is actually a complex group AND they rely on fear (amongst themselves and sometimes against the blacks) & strategy...because they have to strategic in order to try to justify some of their actions or wrest the power Rhaenyra's allowed or could accrue at court. To wittle her already-given status as heir to a more passive role. And beyond-court, they wished to convince the realm that Aegon was the rightful king both before and a little after he's crowned. The greens basically had the task to work past the whole "my heir should rule after me" deal that many lords wanted to stay as solid and meaningful as possible by precedent while also arguing on the precedent set by the GC of 101...which was itself a vote based on the adulthood as well as maleness of the candidate chosen. So, again they had to be strategic and shady and underhanded. And that will inevitably give us more drama.
Funny. Ironic.
We already know that the greens were not that successful with the convincing part even with Rhaenyra at Dragonstone and their long success at isolating her, bc it is only Alicent's move to hide Viserys' body, imprison courtiers and servants, hurry to search for Aegon that enables the greens to take the throne at the end AND Rhaenyra still was able to have many more supporters fighting before and after her death for her and her sons' claims.
Which if this is why you like the greens and not bc you think Aegon deserves the throne or ay sort of leadership [bc we see how unwilling and determined he was to not allow his grandfather to actually try to rule him in canon for the very paradigm that develops from Otto-Alicent's style & aims, they created their own monster], valid. I admit, they make the perfect antagonists & foils to the blacks and they do what they are supposed to do.
B)
People, not just TGs, have cited Alicent's past affecting how she views her own and Rhaenyra's motherhood, that chain of abuse. I'm fine with this, this is true. As for Aegon, I wrote a whole master post for what I think is his "deal" HERE, which is long but you can really sum it up as him trying to prove how great of a leader and man he is in lieu of the all the years he's been on the side and Rhaenyra was Viserys' heir. Yeah his life and misery and nastiness is in part bc Alicent wishes to prepare him to become king and "peacefully" reestablish the order of patriarchal feudal primogeniture/order so she'd not have to confront her own suffering and still materially benefit from it in "exchange". This sentence in itself reflects more on Alicent's complexity than Aegon's.
Aemond? Show!him, as presented, is interesting in that he's going to show a sort of vulnerability from his inflexible role as his side's militant "guard" and his worth being drawn mostly from that. He is there to be the support to Aegon's claim. hamliet describes what I am saying well. "Love is a transaction for the Hightowers". He seeks to "prove" himself and tries to make the glory of a warrior replace real love, but it can never so he's a ball of terror.
And love is a transaction, conditional and more so than on the black side because the greens really rely on putting their children's bodies to some sort of use, from Alicent to Otto to Aegon himself and there is no recourse or sign of deep bonds where each understands the other, comforts each other, reaffirms their emotions etc., or tries to make them happy just for the sake of it formed between any green member. (prob should have made this part part of the 1st paragraph but idk how to):
Helaena's body is made into a breeding machine for Aegon's claim for Otto
Aegon is a tool for Otto's desire to move the crown how he wants and is thus not really asked to be a great leader so much as it there & take his orders/suggestions
Alicent was a Helaena for Otto
Alicent uses her kids to stick it to Rhaenyra (show & book) or else ignores them bc of the troubled context from how they existed even as she genuinely loves them
Daeron--if the show will show that dynamic b/t Daeron and Ormund--is suggested to be more of a tool for his way into high prestige behind Alicent and Aegon's own rise, which is why Daeron's sent to Oldtown in the first place, away from his own family for years...yes I know about fosterage, but I'm speaking to the effects this has on the actual bonds b/t these family member s being reduced to transactions towards their goal towards power
So this troubling, repression, and denial of love is itself intoxicating, and thrilling to people who even don't have to be part of any team. I don't blame them.
C)
This issue for me is then:
Alicent could have been a lot more coherent without the inherent benevolent sexism of her becoming Rhaenyra's only friend and underdeveloped writing that makes her a lot less rational, deliberate, & mentally vulnerable to manipulation than she was in the book....all of which undermines her "complexity" bc she becomes less active as a character much sooner than she does in the book
people say all this ethically justifies the greens' actions, determine that their moral examinations of psycho-social conditions yield the correct and only conclusions to then just reveal that they just want their thoughts to be the general thought in contrary to the evidence in text, or hide behind their real biases and need for validation of those biases through the greens
Don't get me wrong, the black side aren't angels and do heinous actions...but it is simply true that they do not create the conditions for the war to begin and are also reacting to the usurpation.
Moreover, the blacks are pretty open when they can be to be about their actions and Rhaenyra is also already the heir. But the show didn't explore her life as a mother, what her relationship to womanhood as a mother AND heir looks like without Daemon there, or her kids' development after episode 5:
Rhaenyra being reduced to her body (advertisement of "Realm's Delight"; affairs and talk of them)
her kids' understanding, more of this from episode 6 and how exactly they interacted with Alicent's sons...how does Aegon enlist them and their frustrations against Aemond and from their perspective; court interactions, including those with Viserys and Harwin or any of the Strongs; education
Rhaenyra's perceived lack of ability that really just comes from her society evaluating her gender
[book] how she forms bonds with women around her, her relationship with Daemon and their journey towards each other, her relationship with the other Velaryons (Corlys and Laenor)
Daemon as a father -> how he "settles" but not really -> how he navigates/learns to raise another life form(s) & instill pride in their heritage and family after years of his beef with Viserys and losses and his resentments he tried to allay or "make up for" through social advancement and by becoming a warrior/has moved for mainly his own validation [idk how to say this concisely]
how he met and developed whatever relationship he had w/Laena...Corlys and Rhaenys' reactions to that (yes, bring Daemon & Laena back from Essos sooner)
The blacks comparatively do not have to be as underhanded and sneaky, and yet you will also have green stans argue that they are entitled, malicious, terrible threats to a perceived order (a projection--the greens are more that bc they are going against the king's word and what I said above about heirs and precedents).
This and majorly bc of how much opportunity we lost from the writing of this show focusing on developing the greens is also why they appear as "boring" or uninteresting while overbearing, scheming, manipulative agents of destruction at the same time to some people, even though they have more than their fair share of drama and angst from the very hierarchies they are perceived to totally benefit from.
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hello, i'm feeling so disconnected with the fandom lately (hotd and F&B( especially with the way some fans, daemyra, talk about the children of daemon and rhaenyra. obvs we have a blended family but the generalize opinions of the fandom is that rhaenyra do have favorites, there was one that she wished A/V should have died instead of jace/luke, bc these were her sweet boys. i don't know what makes them to say this. Found family and blended ones are one of my fav tropes in media and hotd had the opportunity to use them in such a good way and they waste it, jace did not even say goodbye to his half-baby brothers, not even to rhaena, we have rhaenyra talking to coldly to rhaen. This rhaenyra is such a shame, and i'm sorry for thinking like that, bc i do think at least in the show, she does have favorites
"found family" doesn't refer to step-relations but people were otherwise unlikely to be close...Rhaena has a lot of reason to be close to Rhaenyra or see her as a great aunt even w/Laena surviving (and I'm talking F&B, not HotD).
I don't count the show as a true story, bc it has too many inconsistencies of character and just logic to be one. This has little to do with comparing it to F&B, I'm purely talking abt how it's written between episodes and how its female characters have little to no real sense and parrot this false notion of "peace" and following me's desires or overpraising them. seemingly having little mind of their own. So i don't really care about Rhaenyra having favorites on this show, it already compromised itself long ago. this isn't a dig at you anon, I simply just can't take this show's writing seriously to seriously care or engage besides pointing out how they make problems for themselves down the line & pointing out implied biases.
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I think the ideas that
“Raven is a bad parent”
And
“Raven loves their children”
Can and should co exist. I will never sit here and say Mystique is a good parent, but I think acting like they don’t love their children is just being willfully ignorant of their characterization since the 80s.
I see a lot of people try to claim Raven doesn’t care about their kids. I actually think they care a LOT, it just, doesn’t deter their actions. And they’re not a good parent, don’t get me wrong, but that doesn’t mean they don’t love Kurt and Rogue and I think trying to claim they don’t actually does away with a lot of Raven’s character nuance.
A lot of the tragedy and depth of their relationships come from the fact that Raven DOES love their children, but it’s not enough. And Kurt and Anna Marie know that, and that’s part of the tragedy of it too.
I’m not a Mystique defender, but I am a Raven Darkhölme characterization realist. A lot of people flatten their character to add more sympathy to Kurt’s story especially, which feels kinda iffy to me. But that’s for another post.
From a storytelling perspective, it adds so much more depth and tragedy to all characters involved to not make the relationship so shallow and one sided as “Oh Mystique doesn’t love them”, and even to juxtapose Raven’s relationship to them with Irene’s is a whole other thing I may talk about one day. But like, you do the story injustice to flatten it down to just “Oh Mystique sucks”
Tl;dr - Raven Darkhölme is a shitty parent but they do love their kids. And that’s the whole tragedy of the thing
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I have a Black Ops 2 playthrough going while I work and I actually forgot a lot. I played through it so quickly 3 years ago and haven't played it again because 😭 (also I'm not looking forward to the strike force missions). But damn.
But I'm also getting a little mad. Because if you think Woods is stupid and or impulsive yeah you haven't played this game. You haven't even watched a playthrough. You haven't even touched it.
I knew I was right. I internalized his characterization but forgot about specific moments. But there's SO MUCH solid evidence in this game (also in BO1 which I have played multiple times, it's my favorite ok?).
I don't want to write an essay but I MIGHT.
Took these from Hollow's playthrough (that's why he's there). But I think this has me motivated to pick up Black Ops 2 even though I'm BIG SAD about the canon ending. So I'll take my own pics then.
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