#that i always think of Hanlon's Razor

[genericpuff]

Not related to lore Olympus but this discussion seems a bit uhh strange. Some of the comments are calling Mattie bites a right woman hater. If you don't believe me,check this out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/webtoons/s/4zaDi6fWos

god okay I feel like I'm opening Pandora's Box with this shit but I have lots to say about it so... yeah fuck it, let's do this, I'm brave-

So I can absolutely agree with OP's sentiment that BlackLightJack's content has become uh... more aggressive and mean-spirited , and don't get me wrong, that was always sort of his vibe, but now it feels like he's straight up just weaponizing his fanbase and like... y'all know how curt I get about LO here, I can be a real asshole about it, even I think what BLJ is doing feels really shitty, immature, and frankly just uninformed? Because most of his videos are just him pout-screaming profanities into the microphone, like I know this is gonna sound nitpicky and petty but I can literally hear it in his voice that he's enunciating his words the same way an 8 year old would so that spit would land on the person they're yelling at ("STOOOOOOOOO-PPP-UHHHHH") and lately his content just feels like what it used to feel like being in CoD lobbies back in the day. Him having the name 'webtoon killer' just gives me such a sour taste in my mouth. Like... this feels like some kind of Batman villain in the making LMAO

But maybe no one wants to hear that opinion from someone like me who's literally called themselves the "far superior off brand" as a gag LMAO and that's fine honestly if you think I'm full of shit, this is also just my opinion!

But like... and I know I'm being an asshole going 'b-but-!' but... BLJ is also building an entire ass monetized platform off his vibe and using that platform to specifically go after Canvas series and creators. And let me tell you, while many would argue "well it's just the webtoons that are grossly negligent / breaking Webtoons' ToS / etc.", his fanbase is also constantly just sending him new comics to read and trash on and I feel like it's only a matter of time before he goes after a completely innocent creator whose only crime was being not great at webcomics which... shouldn't be viewed as a default crime punishable by pitchforks. That sorta already happened with the Fulcagay situation, I don't know Fulcagay and he almost definitely wouldn't know me, but he's a fellow Canvas creator who I've run into and shared a space with, and BLJ's original comments about him just felt incredibly off-base and volatile without giving even a shred of benefit of the doubt. I get the sense BLJ doesn't know about Hanlon's razor ("Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity") because EVERY video he does about every comic and creator he's addressing assumes maliciousness always.

This is the same shit we got with Youtube creators like Leafy who became infamous for just taking the piss out of everyone until they took it too far. Like, take it from me, it can be VERY easy to get so entrenched in being an asshole and taking the piss out of everything that completely innocent people get hit with splash damage, and if you're not willing to take responsibility for that, then you're gonna look like a bigger dick than the people you were aiming for. This pee analogy working for y'all? 😆

As for what Matty Bites has to do with that, I don't really get it? Like maybe I'm just misinformed here, maybe I haven't watched enough of her stuff, but she's never given me anywhere near the amount of red flags I get off listening to even one episode of BLJ. Matty feels like someone who actually reads and analyzes and researches the stuff she's criticizing in a way that's relatively harmless with her own flair sprinkled in (and her humor is hilarious btw, her opening skits are great LOL); BLJ meanwhile feels like he's constantly one opinion away from starting a #victimofcancelculture campaign because he's just trying to be as edgy and angry as possible LMAO (and ironically they're both often criticizing the same thing, but it goes to show how delivery makes a hell of a difference when it comes to dishing out criticism)

All that said, if there is something with Matty Bites that I'm missing here, I'm fully open to being informed because I haven't watched many of her videos and there could just as well be something that I've missed. But I don't think she's anywhere near as hostile as BLJ tends to be, I don't think Matty Bites' comedic video editing and sassy commentary has ever resulted in creators actually being attacked and bullied like BLJ's have.

Overall I think anyone who builds a platform or audience off criticizing content (and this includes me!) needs to practice responsibility and accountability in what they put out and what they choose to focus on and criticize. It can be really easy to accidentally use "criticism" as a get-out-of-jail-free card to just be a bully. It can be really easy to wind up leaving your criticism so unrefined and surface level without any deeper reflection that you never actually open your mind to anything and you just end up echoing out hate speech without even intending to. And it can be really, really easy to ruin your own palate from willingly consuming nothing but shit all day.

Just to quote some very famous words from a fictional character that absolutely apply here:

[naughtybg3confessions]

(Not a confession.) I've been working out submissions for the trans day, and there was also an interesting discussion on the topic on r/okbuddybaldur, and I've been wondering - where do you think the line is drawn between 'naughty confessions' and 'fetishization'? I'm trans (transmasc-leaning NB), I have trans hcs, many of them are smutty, I find them hot, trans people ARE hot! We are! But is there a point where it just becomes fetishistic?

Related, what about stereotyping? Tall, buff transfem Karlach, or slender, pretty transmasc Astarion, for instance (which I genuinely do love, especially together). Questionable if you're ONLY going with the more stereotypical view (ie. 'Shadowheart is small and fem and definitely cis, Karlach is tall and butch and definitely trans'), or questionable at any time?

(Relatedly, this comes up in the discussion on Reddit - someone shared their frustration with always seeing Aylin as trans and Isobel as cis, and shared their frankly incredible trans Isobel headcanon.)

Not at all trying to start Disk Horse or anything, just a trans fan writing up submissions and overthinking things. Have an excellent day!

Well let me start by saying that I'm cis, and not exactly an authority on this subject. I have no magical way of knowing where all our confessions are coming from, but I do have some safeguards in place to reduce harm.

First of all, confessions that fetishize real life groups of people are strictly not allowed in our rules. It's up to my own discernment (and that of our followers) what constitutes that, but generally any use of slurs or reinforcing negative stereotypes is a clear tip off. If someone is making trans folk out to be freaks or fetishizing things about them that belittle their gender identity, that's obviously a no go. But so far, no one has said that. There was one confession sexualizing dysphoria that towed the line for me, but my gut told me the submitter was trans themselves and simply had a humiliation kink. Which they later confirmed!

Not speaking for the fandom at large, but on this blog at least it seems like all the characters are "transed" pretty much equally, from Shadowheart to Halsin. With the exception of Gortash, who seems to get the lion's share of those confessions, but that doesn't ring any alarm bells to me.

I certainly wouldn't want to disallow trans hcs for any particular character. After all, it is a fact of life that some cis women are big and tall, and so are some trans women. Should they be excluded from being found attractive just because of a few bad eggs? But I'm always happy to see more variety, thought, and creativity put into confessions overall. Y'all are certainly encouraged to break the mold around here.

I do my best to use my best judgement in moderating confessions so that everyone feels safe and welcome here. But I'm not perfect, so if anything ever slips through the cracks I won't hesitate to listen to our trans followers, remove the confession and learn from the experience. Should that ever happen, I may ask the anon to clarify their intentions as well, as sometimes people just phrase things unintentionally poorly (Hanlon's razor and all that).

Anyways, I hope that answer was satisfactory, it's an interesting and nuanced topic to be sure. And I bid thee an excellent day as well!

[lacrimosathedark]

I really wish people applied Hanlon's Razor and Grey's Law to their daily lives.

In case you don't know, here is what those mean.

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity/incompetence.

Grey's Law: Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

They sound in direct opposition, but I feel like people don't consciously think about either of these and apply them almost at random and it sucks. I know the lack of people thinking like this has effected me personally, and those around me.

Starting with Hanlon I suppose.

One of the few things I'm confident is is that I'm intelligent. That said, I'm wholly aware I have specialties and there's so much that I don't know, and my memory sucks so I often forget things too. I also am the furthest from malicious someone can really be without being a complete doormat (and I'm still a bit of a doormat, I'm working on it). Upsetting people is genuinely distressing on so many levels, and because of this I feel compelled to explain myself for literally everything, or say nothing at all. So I'm long rants and silence.

Sometimes I'll assert something and someone will disagree with me, be it because they got offended for some reason or because they have information I don't. I assume one or both of us is lacking information, so I share what I have and ask for theirs. You may have noticed this if you see me responding to posts asking for sources.

I hate being wrong. I know in a lot of people that manifests in becoming stubborn and defensive, but I actively try not to do that. I want to be correct, so I want to learn more. I want to know what I was missing. If I'm wrong, I want to know so I don't make the same mistakes again. If I'm not wrong but was missing information, it can give me a clearer understanding of the topic as a whole and people who think and feel differently than me which is fantastic because I love learning how people and things work when I don't understand the logic. And I love to share information to. And I might go overboard.

But people assume I'm trying to argue, and not that I genuinely want to understand their perspective.

And I'm not saying part of that's on me for not communicating well enough. But no matter how hard I try, someone always seems to assume I'm out to hurt people when the thought of vaguely upsetting someone often paralyzes me. I've been scolded for not asking for help because I feel like an inconvenience. (TW) The only reason I'm even alive is because I know at least one person would grieve, and hurting someone like that is so much worse than suffering through existence. (TW end) I'm not someone who would ever go out of my way to cause harm unprovoked.

And I know I'm not the only one to experience this. Neurodivergent people often have trouble communicating. Children still have a lot they don't know. Some people grew up incredibly sheltered. That's not even to mention people getting into a niche or study and being brand new, just learning. Everyone starts somewhere and no one begins as an expert in anything. And the world is big and there's so much to know in so little time.

Why do we assume people are playing dumb or ignorant on less consequential things just to be a jerk?

Assuming people are malicious because they're ignorant or even stupid hurts people who mean no harm. And it sucks.

Onto Grey.

I'll make this example a little less personal.

The American education system sucks, and most people never get comprehensive sex ed. Many states have laws limiting the education to "abstinence only". This results in many people not knowing how the reproductive system works.

This, therefore, results in our government full of old cishet white men to not know what the fuck they're talking about while trying to limit "women's" healthcare. People have died because of their idiocy. Doctors are scared to abort babies that won't survive birth, and make the mother wait until they are literally dying to help them. People have given stillbirths at home because doctors refused to help for fear of legal recourse. A woman was fucking arrested because she had a stillbirth at home because they refused to abort the dying fetus.

That incompetence and stupidity and the stubborn refusal to be educated costs actual lives.

Both Hanlon and Grey work for transphobia too.

Like, you should always initially apply Hanlon's Razor if you get misgendered. Maybe the person didn't know. Maybe it's new to them and they're still learning. Maybe they just need to unlearn the habit of how they've thought of you. It's a process and people make mistakes. It may hurt, but it's not automatically malicious.

However, where Grey's Law comes in is there can be people who say they love you, genuinely think they mean it, try to give you the world, but refuse to respect you as you are. They don't put effort into changing for you. And it's not malicious, clearly. They don't hate you, probably want what's best for you and think they know what that is. But with the amount of harm that attitude causes, can it be distinguishable from malice? I don't really think so.

I just wish people thought about that more. Me included.

[sitorrothekitsune]

Alright. So. The blog I reblogged this post from deleted their original post, and maybe even blocked me, but I think what I said was actually important so I deleted my post and anonymized it. This is the original post:

And this is the original response from my end:

Hey, I don’t know who or what this group involved, and I’m not saying it’s not wrong, but I’ve actually done this to somebody before. And at least in my case, it was a complete accident.

I was in a Roleplay with somebody and our characters had good chemistry. I was enjoying it. I had typed out this really long response, pressed send, and thought nothing of it. I get a response like five minutes later, but I was kinda done writing for the day so I put it off until the next.

I looked at it the next day and had no ideas on where to take it from there, but I think I’m a pretty good writer, so I knew I’d think of something. Fast forward a couple days and I get a text from the guy. Just checking up on me. He asked me if I was still feeling the desire to continue, and I said yes. I was having fun. But every time I looked at that message, I didn’t know how to respond. I didn’t know how to own up to that, and I don’t think I would be able to still today. Well, a couple days turned into a week, and then into two. He already knew I was a slow writer, but he was starting to get really concerned. It was every day that I got a message, and every day that I told him I still wanted to do it. And one day, I finally owned up to it. Told him my shame. And he blocked me. Ghosted me. And I still haven’t been able to apologize.

Partially, this post is my apology to him. If you ever see this, dude, I’m sorry. This was never about you or your character. I was too invested in the story, and I was too caught up in my own shit to admit that I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know how to ask because I was always slightly jealous of how easily it came to you.

But this is partially to say that creativity is hard, and no matter how good someone is at creating a story, it’s hard to sit down and put pen to paper. This is especially true for TTRPGs where you not only have to make the story, but also do all the background math, balancing, character sheets, scheduling, and all this other stuff.

I love RP, DnD, and TTRPGs. I’d pick up another in a heartbeat. But it’s hard, and I don’t want to cast blame on creators for not being able to keep up the pace. At least they tried.

That about sums up my end, but I’ll leave with these final thoughts. These stories are the brainchildren of their creators, and most of the time are given so much thought and attention that they feel real. This gets people excited and emotionally engaged, but comes at a hefty cost. The people experiencing the story can never go back to being bystanders. They are as much of the story as the world is. And this can be a death sentence…

Some of my readers may be unfamiliar with this feeling. “How’s that? It’s just make-believe.” One might say. But the feeling I’m talking about is one more primal. You don’t consciously realize it’s there until it’s gone…

Thanks for reading my little rant if you got this far. I’m sorry to talk about something so frustrating. I just don’t think it’s fair to throw shade at people if they had good intentions. I’m not saying that the DM from OP’s situation did either, I wasn’t there. But we should “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” (Hanlon’s Razor)

[wisteria-lodge]

bird primary in flux + bird secondary (badger model)

Hi, I really love your help in sorting submissions so I thought I may have some luck here. Also, to wisteria-lodge, I love your writing tips, it really helped especially with the character building one. So for me, I've always been a little unsure on what’s the correct primary for myself. Every time I take the quiz by sortinghatchats, I always get Badger primary to which I agree with but there is always a strong either Bird or Lion primary as a contender and it confuses me so I hope you can help clear some things I am confused with.

Let's sort you out.

For primaries first, I strongly believe that I could be a Badger primary as I do believe that every person is a person (this phrase jumped at me when I first read it because it just felt right for me because I feel this is the right way to view human beings). Even if I dislike that person and strongly disagree with their opinions, they are still a person nonetheless so sending death threats or hate bugs me.

Okay, sure, I'm definitely seeing the Badger. You clearly like Badgers and have very Badger values.

If a person sending death threats is reasonable and lists out the reason that person’s opinion is wrong, I’m not against that.

Reasonable death threats! I'm not sure if that's exactly what you meant or if the sentence got away from you, but there is something hilariously Bird primary about "I guess death threats be okay if you really thought out and spelled out the reason behind the death threats.

A person is a person but it doesn’t mean I have to agree with them or have the same opinion either. I used to believe that I have to compromise with people and their opinions in order to not upset them.

Hmm. HAD TO compromise. I think that what we're looking at here is a slightly oppressive Badger primary model.

I don’t want them to think that I’m not hearing them out but I could never change my views (unless their opinion makes sense to me with evidence that their view is the correct way to approach a topic/social issue, etc.)

Yeah, I think you're an Idealist who likes Badgers. Probably a Bird, or at least you're using Bird language here.

it just feels wrong to me to compromise or change my opinion itself as it would be like I’m lying to myself to please them. I don’t like doing that because I think I may be a people pleasing person

Either you used to have had a VERY Badger looking system/truth or were surrounded by Badgers (probably both.)

but I don’t want my authentic self to get lost because of that so I don’t try to compromise unless the other person is actively trying to compromise with me as well.

That's just a good policy in general. This talk of "authentic self" is sounding pretty Lion though. I wonder if you're a Bird whose system is moving in a more Lion direction, or if you are actually a Lion, or just really like Lions, or if stressing about being "authentic" is more something that's coming from your secondary...

I do like to give people the benefit of doubt because we don’t understand everything and the reasoning behind something may need to be considered before we make a judgment on whether this person did it intentionally or perhaps it was an accident.

Hanlon's Razor - never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

All of us make mistakes and it feels wrong to just put/view someone in a bad light because of one mistake. Here’s something that often trips me up: It states from sortinghatchats that Badger will most likely come to an enemies’ aid but not forgive. I do agree that hypothetically if someone is hurt, even if I dislike them, I will give aid because they’re a human being nonetheless but it mentions that Lion will be most likely to forgive if they see that their enemies change and repent to Lion’s side of the issue which I think may fit me as well.

OG Sortinghatchats calls it a Lion thing, but personally I think that the whole 'forgive your enemies after an idealistic shift" is just an... idealist thing.

You do say that things "feel wrong" a lot, and this is a very emotional ask. I wonder if you've got some interesting stacking thing going on - like if you're a Lion primary who uses Bird primary language to talk about a Badger truth.

(you could also be an emotional Bird)

I think that if someone is repenting and seeing that what they were doing is wrong, it’s important to see that too that that person had personal growth and acknowledge that even if they had done things in the past. This is no way in shape or form disregarding what they had done in the past, there will certainly be consequences regarding their past actions but I dislike the judgment that a person who has done wrong is a bad person forever.

I mean, to me one that the utilities of systems like this that don't preference one single morality. Expressing the idea that there are no good and bad people, only good and bad actions.

Anyone can grow into a better person, they just need to choose for themselves. And being a good person doesn’t mean you have to save the world, you can help an elder cross the street, you see someone lose their $20 bill, you let them know instead of pocketing the money, etc. It’s a choice.

Okay, I'm doubling down on Bird for you. This whole section read like instructions, and had caveats and rebuttals. "Realizing what you are doing wrong is always possible, but needs to come with changed behavior, and doesn't erase past bad actions which do still needs to be dealt with."

Also that very Sartre "goodness is a choice" bit is something I tend to get from Birds. And usually, I only end up talking about formal logic tools and specific philosophers when talking to Birds.

Anyway, I don’t think that I’m a Snake primary at all. I do have loyalty but right now, I do have a small share of people I deeply love whom I will put before others if I have to because they are the people that I love and it wouldn’t be fair to not help them first but I do deeply feel guilty about it. There is nothing I can do because I need to protect and take care of my loved ones first because I know they would put me first too.

I agree that you're not a Snake primary, but you're definitely interested in their morality and the way they see the world. You read like a Bird primary in flux, building your system and trying bits of others on for size.

I would like to do the same for everyone but I can’t always save everyone no matter what (though it doesn’t mean I don’t try) and there is a chance that everyone won’t care for me if I get left behind. Perhaps I’m a little selfish but I do think it’s important to value myself. I deserve to be happy too. To me, this statement is right in my gut feeling but I feel a tiny bit guilty saying that I value myself so at times that I choose to put myself first than the other person who may also be going through a lot as well.

This is some leftover Exploded Badger gunk. Burning yourself out trying to save everyone, being guilty about being a person who deserves to be happy, need-basing... but kind of using that as a way not to value yourself? "But the other person could be going though more than me." It's not a competition.

Also, in my experience, not taking care of yourself puts you in a rather precarious situation. Because now you are expecting other people to take care of you when you eventually fall apart (since you are human.) BUT... that's something the other people in your life might not know they're supposed to do, or even be able to do. And so resentment builds up on your side ("I ran myself into the ground taking care of you, and now you can't step up when I need it") and on their side as well ("I have no idea what they need, I thought I was doing a good job but I guess I was wrong. Did they really have to dump a huge problem in my lap with no warning?")

And it's just a bad situation all around.

The next option is Bird primary and I feel like I fit in some ways so I’m always bouncing between Bird and Badger. Bird: From the sortinghatchats, they state that Bird looks for the correct way to look at the world which I agree with. I do think that there are correct answers and then some answers that don't make sense at all. But the truth does not have the finalized truth, it’s just a functional truth as things can change with new information.

The way this is laid out is very, very, very Bird primary.

But Bird pokes at something rather than just believing it is just wrong. I do believe there is a reasoning behind why something is just wrong if I look into it but some things are just wrong unless get proven otherwise for me so I don’t quite think that I fit Bird primary perfectly either

Look, you've got to start somewhere. You are clearly in process of building your system out from this Badger thing you had when you were younger. You're deciding which parts to keep, but some of the major structural poles ("all people are people") get to remain unexamined. I would be prepared to be that when you talk about how "some things are just wrong" you're talking about like, serial killers and child molesters.

And then even with all that, you STILL say "some things are just wrong... until proven otherwise." And that's a Bird.

so I fall onto my default as a Badger but I guess I don’t want to lie or pretend to be a Badger just because I couldn’t figure out which primary matches me the most thus me reaching out to you. 

Yep.

For secondaries, I do not fit with Lion or Snake again. I don’t think I ever charge in impulsively because to me, that’s impulsive and while it’s not wrong, what if you need a backup plan because that doesn’t work or what if the situation changes?

Agreed, you're probably a prep-work secondary, or at least have a strong model.

How are you going to convince someone to be on your side

Consciously convince people to be on your side? That's Bird or Snake.

or figure your way out of the situation now? What if you end up getting caught when that could have been avoided if you took two more seconds to think?

Well you definitely don't like Lion secondaries.

I don’t think that Snake fits me either, I don’t believe I’m an improviser at all. I can improvise if needed because I f up and my plan or backup plan doesn't work so I’m just going along until the situation is over and I can run (often berating myself for messing things up). I often just hope that in the moment my face doesn’t reveal that I’m feeling flustered and that I did not expect that to happen instead of my original plan.

Okay, so we've got *backup* plans now (Bird.) And sometimes you lose control of the situation, which you hate and have to flail in an in-the-moment sort of way (or run and regroup) until you get your feet under you again. Still Bird.

But I don’t quite feel like I’m a Bird secondary either. I do have knowledge about certain things but like I have to do something with the subject before to thoroughly grasp it. For example, I have just begun working in the medical field  and have been gaining a lot of knowledge regarding medical terminology but I only have the knowledge about medical terms because I work at a hospital. I didn’t necessarily collect the information out of collecting it.

My friend, on the other hand, has knowledge about almost everything. For example, there was an incident in Seoul where there was a crowd crush, I couldn’t wrap the information on how that was possible and I knew to go to her because for some reason, she has some knowledge on why crowd crush occurs and science behind it. I admire this ability of hers’ and anyone who does have this ability in general because it’s so weird but cool how they have some much knowledge even if they are not an expert on the subject itself but they know enough to be able to explain it to me.

Hmm. The Sherlock Holmes-type person who knows everything about everything is very much a movie Bird secondary thing. Many birds have a lot of random knowledge that they find ways to use, but some birds are... learning. You've just begun working in this new field. You're learning, and problem-solving, and you're doing it in a Bird way.

The thing is that Badger and Bird secondaries are planners and I don’t think I plan well at all.

Planning *well* doesn't make you a Bird. Sometimes things just happen, no one is perfectly magically competent. You're a Bird if planning things out makes you feel secure and comfortable.

Like I do plan but a loose version of the plan because anything can change and I need to accommodate the changes in my plan to achieve the best results or my end goal, it does annoy me if the accommodation needed is someone, who is included in the plan, was running late even if it was unintentional. But my inner voice tells me a loose version of a plan means no plan because you didn’t cover all the bases. The prepwork isn’t complete and you just have to improvise half way through essentially, how irresponsible. I have a conflict between the want of having a thorough plan and the need to be flexible. 

I don't know what to tell you, you're a planner. You actually sound like this Bird secondary, who wrote a funny little POV of "no I can't be a Bird secondary, I just plan the normal amount."

I do think I fit again as a Badger secondary as I do think I’m useful to the people that I’m surrounded by and do my work thoroughly. I just want to be dependable, like someone at work can go “Oh, give that to her. She can do it.” or what my manager had told me, “I trust you to sort the items correctly so I don’t have to recheck later. I don’t trust other people.” This was due to many items being incorrectly sorted into wrong bins (I also work in retail FYI if this example doesn’t make sense).

You've worked in retail, and now the medical field, two REALLY Badger secondary fields. I'd be surprised if you didn't have at least a model.

I admit that I felt very proud of myself that I worked hard enough so my manager trusted me that much and I’m glad we are close enough for him to feel like he doesn’t have to double check things with me (because I’m dependable and useful).

That's human stuff. It's nice to feel recognized and trusted.

I do agree that slow and steady wins the race but suddenly I wonder if I'm being too slow that my usefulness goes away. I don’t like to cheat either because there is a right way  to do something, why do it the wrong way? Why cut corners? I only understand if you are desperate, if you don’t cut corners or cheat your way to get something, someone may die or you will be late to class, etc.

I love it. "You can cut corners if someone's dying or you're about to be late to class." You don't cut corners... unless you want to cut corners. Yeah, sometimes the Badger way of doing things absolutely is sort of slow and plodding, but that feels correct and comforting. To you, being too Badger too long seems to get you feeling anxious and twitchy.

I don’t think I am good with emotions overall and this may be a reason I doubt myself as fitting into any of the secondaries or primaries.

You sound like someone in a transitional period using this system as a tool to sort though your emotions. That's what this system is for. You're /fine./

I want to take care of the people around me and the ones I love but struggle to show it properly. I often see Badger characters so easily showing another character how much they care or love them and I guess I see that I lack that ability itself.

There might be little tiny bit of secondary burning going on here, some "I'd like to do this thing, but I can't." But it might also be "I like people who do this, even though I am not that way myself."

I do agree with how I don’t like being the center of attention, I do like for 2 seconds. It feels nice to feel like the main protagonist for once and then I immediately go back into the support role because the attention is too much for me all at once.

That just sounds like a personality thing, rather than a sorting thing.

I don’t think people tell me their secrets often at all so I don’t think I quite fit in Badger but if they do, I promise myself that I wouldn’t use it against them even if they had wronged me.

^ that's your Bird primary system talking.

I use petty ones like you took the toothbrushes from the second floor but not like you dropped out of college and you're a failure because that’s not true and too harsh to use someone’s personal issue against them when they trusted me with that vulnerable piece of information.

You haven't talked about it much, but I'm positive that you've got a fairly robust Actor Bird who is good at building different personas to correctly navigate different situations. That is not something that everyone does.

I’m not sure if I model anything and I probably am burnt but it’s really late so I’m going to stop here since I have bombarded you with my rambling enough now. Thank you for reading my submission if you do get around to reading this. 

You're good. And if you're even burnt at all - which I'm not even sure you are - it's so light as to be basically not worth mentioning.

[quirrelli]

So, I finished Killing Eve S4 and I'm...

...just gonna pretend I do not see it. S3 wasn't amazing but its ending still works way better as the ending of the show than the actual ending, so I think I'll just be having that, thank you.

No, but seriously, how did they manage to have this much lesbian activity for four seasons and still end up with bury your gays lite?? Did literally no one in that writer's room have even a cursory look at tvtropes.com or talk to like one gay person??? Make no mistake, I was fully expecting one or both of them to die, especially since I was aware – without knowing any details – of the finale's negative reception. There are always going to be people who hate an ending and by extension the whole show simply because it killed off their favorite character, irrespective of context or execution. I am not one of those people, so I want to be crystal clear here when I say there were ways to make a tragic ending work for Killing Eve, a few fairly obvious ones even, and so I thought surely there was no way they would fall into that specific trap again.

The most generous interpretation of this (non-)ending I can come up with is to apply Hanlon's razor, in which case it might be be seen as a symptom of the general loss of focus the series suffered beginning with S3 and exponentially more so in S4. By which I mean they let the emotional core (the V/E dynamic) diverge wildly from the plot (finding the 12).

Never lose sight of the emotional core. I find you can get away with almost anything; technical faults, dodgy performances, plot holes (especially plot holes), even a meh ending, as long as the emotional core stays exactly where its name says it should stay.

Helene is an easy means of illustration for this point. Helene in S4 is basically less chaotic Villanelle, both in her function to the plot (murderous fancy bitch whomst is important as the key to a bigger bad) and in her relationship with Eve (gay, aggressive, lethally hot), which makes me wonder why they didn't just let Villanelle play that part??? It's driving me mad bc it's the most obvious thing and would have fixed so many problems in an instant.

By which I don't mean get rid of Helene btw, just make better use of her, as an actual member and face of the 12 or a double agent or sth. Give V the quest to hunt down the 12, it's already perfectly aligned with her motivations and capabilities at the end of S3! I mean she wants to impress Eve by showing her she's trying to be better and to start a new life, right? Cool, ok, therefore, in Villanelle's moderately disturbed mind it makes perfect sense to do this by violently hunting down a bunch of bad ppl ~ for Eve ~ . (The fact that she's also high key horny for murder is just a bonus, don't worry about it, baby.) If not that, then do sth else entirely with her, do the church thing (properly this time, not squeezed into two episodes and then entirely forgotten) but don't give hunting down the 12 to Helene, a character that already feels vaguely like a replacement for Villanelle while she's off doing character growth or whatever.

If they had done the thing that makes sense, it would have also meant that for once V and E's goals would have aligned, (though they might not have realized it immediately, you know, for spice,) which would have given us an opportunity to delve into a new dynamic: Partners in crime. Not S2 V tenuously working for E bc horny but actual challenging "we want the same thing except oh no, all this history and unresolved tension" cooperation. Obviously it would have gone horribly wrong in some fashion (I'm thinking Carolyn shenanigans), but at least it would have gone wrong for a reason that actually involved them bc the plot would have actually been their plot again. Incidentally, if you're going to have them hook up, this would be a great time for that, so it doesn't feel quite so backhanded if/when one/both die at the end.

The only reason I can imagine for not going down this route is that it would be too obvious, to which I can only say: [Insert tired comparison to Game of Thrones here.]

Seriously, hunting down the 12 is a natural conclusion to the story. It makes sense, was built to from the beginning and should have been a slam dunk in terms of plotting. Thus I am flummoxed as to how the writers managed to drop the ball so spectacularly that it hit every single one of their teammates square in the tits.

Well, I say that, the show does maintain a few of its strengths, first and foremost the cast of course, consequently some of the dialogue (Carolyn and V's interactions are delightful) and I do like the idea of both Gunn and Pam and also V getting shot by an arrow. Just wish the cupid/angel motif hadn't been so muddled and included Gunn more (who shouldn't have been called Gunn. It's a bad joke.)

Speaking of, many have rightly decried the lackluster supporting cast but as I see it, that is largely a holdover from S3, which killed off/wrote out basically everyone but the core four and failed to introduce any new characters that stayed past the season finale (besides Helene) bc it was too busy not moving the plot forward. You gotta have side characters in your show, so they made some new ones for S4 and gathered together whatever scraps they could (Hugo prettyboy and Martin the therapist). Idk if there was a good way to solve this problem exactly, but they could have certainly woven the new lot into the story better. Especially Pam. Pam could have been so much more. Oh and fuck the way they wrapped up Irina's story too. Complete waste.

With bad plotting comes shitty pacing. Again, that already started in S3. However, I will say in defense of S3 that it being a bit slower and introspective is very much the sort of thing that could have felt kinda ok, even needed in retrospect, if S4 had Risky Businessed into the room champagne in one hand, gun in the other, ready to party. Instead it made S3 look worse by turning it into a prelude to an even more plodding experience, now with bad editing!

For real, there's some really poorly constructed scenes; shots that feel disjointed, unfocused, repetitive. No idea what that's about, could it be the lingering effects of Covid-restrictions? Or maybe they just needed a better editor. Regardless, while not super dire it is absolutely noticeable and contributes to the general lack of cohesion, not to mention the tonal dissonance.

What am I saying, that's an excellent thing to mention. An ideal candidate to put the show and this too long note on my phone out of its misery in fact.

Killing Eve is supposed to be fun, you guys, remember that? S1 was at all times like two smash cuts away from becoming a full on comedy and it was amazing for that. It was the show's most unique feature, what took it from very good to transcendent as far as I'm concerned. Walking that line is hard, no doubt about it, and I get that different show runners have different visions and of course you can take on a more serious tone between seasons but then you actually need to make everything else match that shift. Integrate the absurdity into your writing or discard it, the way I've discarded the idea of ever writing a proper conclusion for anything. If you really want a dramatic, played entirely straight spy thriller conclusion with conspiracies upon conspiracies and doomed passions, that's fine. I mean, it’s not really bc you're losing what made Killing Eve great et cetera and so forth but my point is that you can't have your imaginary drag king Jesus and eat him too.

tl;dr: S4 is bad. There are several reasons for this.

[uboat53]

All right guys, far be it for me to defend a large, multibillion dollar corporation, but a thought just occurred to me that I think needs to be considered with regards to the D&D OGL situation.

What if, and bear with me here, what we're actually seeing is Hanlon's Razor. To quote:

"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

And here's the thing, I think it may adequately be explained by stupidity.

I recently watched this video which made a point that a lot of legally minded people I'd been reading had made over the last week or so; nothing about the rules of Dungeons of Dragons can be copywrited or trademarked even if Hasbro or WotC wanted to.

All of the stuff that's grown up around D&D, the livestreamed games, the homebrew adventures, the custom monsters... none of it uses any material that WotC can actually copywrite in the first place.

And I suspect that this is what is behind the terms in the new OGL that seemed draconian. Yes, forcing Critical Role to pay 25% of all revenue over $750,000 would probably shut them down, but what if their lawyers correctly understood what they could and couldn't copywrite and didn't think about that because it wasn't an issue to begin with?

And when you understand it in those terms, the new OGL was actually shockingly generous. I mean, imagine if Disney were to say "yes, anyone can make their own material with Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck in it FOR FREE until you reach a certain amount of income after which you start paying us royalties."

Pretty much no other company in the world is that generous with their IP.

As I said, I'm not 100% sure that this is what happened, but stupidity always strikes me as more likely than pure, unadulterated evil when we're dealing with human beings so it seems likely to me that WotC/Hasbro's lawyers were simply unaware that we all thought that the OGL covered way more than it did.

[doublestackedtables]

I really do think that in the realm of interpersonal conflict we need Hanlon's Razor most of all. Paranoia that your friends don't like you is almost always stupid and you should talk to your therapist instead of whining about it

[kendrixtermina]

(I know I cannot talk about this with you)

You exist.

You are beyond my cosmic event horizon.

I can quite picture how you might react,

how your own needs, axioms and necessarty conditions might lead you

to eliminate the unteable

and arrive at this predictable little conclusion,

from the incomplete

fragments

that bring nothing but jarring pain if improperly understood.

The truth of my soul lies filed away,

so neatly folded in and curled up like the thin legs of a grasshoper

concealed to emerge from the pupa

we can probably coexist just fine if I don’t ask you to chose me.

It’s not your fault you are finite like myself.

This being the reasonable conclusion,

does not quite erase the lingering embers I chose not to act on

The least reasonable part of me crows for me to speak it out loud:

spit out the ugliest things in my soul all unsanded

though I know they’re not exactly objective -

I just wanted them said, maybe,

in all their uglyness,

so that they could be answered.

So that a balm could come upon all the nasty spikes

which I usually give up to,

watching them visible beyond a layer of smoothing polish

like a broken DVD

unaltered, unsoftened,

yet encased.

I’m so tired of being the reasonable one.

I just decided to take a chance,

that things would go different that I thought they might,

and I was dissapointed.

I so hate the feeling

to be made to regret that I was honest

but am I capable of feeling otherwise,

ever braced to preempt the dissapointment

so it’s me who sees it first.

I could bring it up again,

but it’s ever so predictable that it would never end well.

You say I don’t tell anything,

but you don’t really want to see it, do you?

The tarry blackness desolation drops that I am made of,

despair herself,

Here again those very same words,

ever always the same story:

They are always all dying to meet me,

ask me where I am when I am sitting right in front of them,

and once they do,

they wish they never did.

They wonder what it was,

that eerie negative void that they saw there,

leaking matter of stragelets -

I think the fucking bullies might well have been the smartest

they saw what was repulsive in me straight away.

You, however, gave me the benefit of the doubt.

You didn’t want to assume what you saw, hanlon and his razor would be proud!

Least of all as something that might be true and not mere pity

Let me avoid an injustice:

You would have helped me with everything so long as it had a clear solution.

You would have protected me from everything except that which I fear.

But a world of sharp restriction,

the world that I exist in,

that’s not something you really care to see.

And how could I ask you,

with what right?

Oh don’t you get it?

If I didn’t care about you,

I wouldn’t even have tried to explain.

If I didn’t think you cared,

if I didn’t see some good faith endeavor to understand,

why would I ever waste my time trying?

I cannot make myself comprehensible, no, actually,

I think your fear may have comprehended my sorry state perfectly well

[purgatoryandme]

Hello!!! Happy 3 day new year!! I just saw your previous reply on shadow work and just wanted to ask you a question. What behaviour would you call someone who has hurt you in the past but tells you to "get over it" and to "not hold any more negative energy" anymore about that hurt? Would you say that it's gaslighting to dictate how long a person can be hurt over something/an action that you do? Thank you!!

I think it really depends on the full context of the situation and how holding onto that hurt affects you and a relationship that you may or may not want to keep. If a person has a pattern of behaviour that is injurious to you, wherein they are consistently disrespecting boundaries that have been communicated or are being inconsiderate after conversations about how their behaviour is hurtful, then ‘forgive and forget’ is a poor approach and them treating your hurts as ‘negative energy’ is skewing your relationship in an unhealthy direction that puts your needs below theirs. However, if a person isn’t aware they hurt you, or if the hurt was a single time event that they have apologized for and tried to move past, then the situation becomes a little more complicated.  Mindfulness exercises will teach you that holding onto hurts, especially for years, and using them as a reflexive defence or punishment in a relationship in which you feel insecure is bad for YOU. For instance, if you were friends with someone who stole your boyfriend in high school, bringing that up whenever you fight or feel insecure is hurtful behaviour on your part that fails to acknowledge any of the work that person has put in to make up for their mistakes and also avoids the real issue (whatever it is you may be fighting about currently). This kind of behaviour is common in families - when you live with people, especially since childhood, they cannot avoid hurting you at some point, but bringing it up constantly in a competition of who-hurt-who-the-most only makes each new conflict worse. Everyone makes mistakes, and while some hurts are difficult to move past, when leaning on that hurt only hurts you and the other party more...what’s the point? Nobody can dictate when and how they get over something fully, but we all dictate when we start that journey and how much work we put into it for ourselves and others. We also dictate how we communicate those hurts and the limit to which we will tolerate exposing ourselves to them. In that vein, I really think ‘gaslighting’ has become a pop psych term online that people use to highlight the current divide between ‘toxic’ and ‘good’ people. Genuine gaslighting behaviour has intent behind it, is an established pattern of behaviour, and is designed to make a person question their own perception and memories of an event. Telling someone to get over something isn’t gaslighting, but telling them that everyone else involved has moved past it, that it wasn’t that bad, that it happened longer ago than it did, that you weren’t that hurt at the time CONSISTENTLY is, especially when the person tries to highlight the irrationality of your behaviour to yourself and brings in other people. Gaslighting is manipulative behaviour and needs to be squashed quickly when it arises if this is still someone you want in your life, which they might be.  Anyway, I don’t believe in removing negativity from your life either by cutting people off or by simply getting over things (re: no negative energy :))))) ). Life isn’t black and white, people are stupid, and it’s hard to be human. Anger, sadness, grief, hurt - they’re all important emotions and I think their expression allows us all to become better people and to feel more connected at the root of it all. It’s best to express those things and struggle your way through communication at least once before deciding if you want to work with somebody to patch things up or if you want to remove them entirely. Fight with them! Argue! Cry! Punch a hole in their wall! Be vulnerable enough to expose why you can’t get over something! Maybe you’ll iron things out, or find out enough about how they feel that you can work towards forgiving them. Or, if you feel they’ve changed since they hurt you (in a good way or a bad way) and you’re tired of it all, tired of yourself, tired of not being able to discuss it with them because maybe you two aren’t the kind of people who can do that, sit with the feeling for awhile and change your perspective of their relationship with you. You can keep people in your life without trusting them. You can learn to love them again from a different angle, knowing that the scar they left will always be there. You have choices when you stop trying to think of everything as right and wrong or healthy and unhealthy. People have friends for different things, and some people aren’t the friends that you share all your thoughts with, and some people ARE but they’ll never agree with you and that’s ok. There are friends who cut you off at the knees because you’re destroying your own life, there are friends who help you rebuild, there are friends who are only friends when the world is falling apart - they’re not all the same, and not all of them can be trusted with all your secrets, and some of them can become damaging when you place them in a different context, but none of them are inherently right for you or wrong for you. To finalize this whole thing without knowing any of the context in which you’re asking, I’m definitely hypocritical about a lot of this and it isn’t easy. That said, I’ve kept a lot of people in my life for over a decade, and I’ll tell you with complete honesty that plenty of that decade hasn’t been good for us. Most of my closest friends were, at some point, people who hated me, and some were bullies directly involved in one of the worst periods of my life. We’ve been close, then grown apart, then close again until we learned each other’s limits and even then new limits came up through mental health crises and mutual ignorance. I’ve grown apart more permanently from some of my best friends when they’ve changed, not necessarily into worse people, but into people incompatible with me, too. So yeah, thinking on shadow work and the like, everybody has something terrible inside of them and if you stick around you’ll see it. Sometimes it can be worked past, where the shitty things in them match up with the shitty things in you, and you’ve hurt each other enough times that it all kindof evens out. Sometimes it can’t be. But you’ve got to look into yourself, consider what you can tolerate and if you want them around, and then either try or walk away - and even then it doesn’t have to be forever. Hopefully that helps? 

[a-witch-in-endor]

I wonder if you might be willing to explain what philosophical razors are? I realize the answer is easily searchable, but it also seemed like something that you might enjoy explaining, should the opportunity present itself.

Hi anon! A philosophical razor is a rule of thumb that allows you to shave off unnecessary/unlikely explanations/debates/etc. It's not a law, in that there are likely always situations in which you'd choose not to apply it based on context, but it helps to navigate arguments and explanations.

Is it possible that I got on this train via alien transport after being abducted last night? Yeah, sure, I guess, but Occam's Razor (explanations that require fewer assumptions are usually correct) would suggest that I probably just bought a ticket and walked onto the train.

I'm not a huge fan of this razor because I think truth does not tend toward simplicity, but it's clearly useful so I won't rage against it. In the story that prompted this ask, Keith is using Occam's Razor to keep anyone from getting too close. Occam's Razor + razor wire = "occam's razor wire".

Some razors are helpful for everyday life. My favourite razor is Hanlon's Razor: never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. This shaves off all the unlikely explanations about how the man who bumped into me at the train station was doing it deliberately because he's an antisemite who's really good at spotting religious Jewish women via our skirt length and says: the more likely explanation is that he was just being absentminded.

Some razors aren't necessarily useful for every day, but are good for philosophy and debate. Hume's is-ought problem isn't called a razor (though it's sometimes called Hume's Guillotine) but falls under that category: you cannot derive an ought from an is. We're always doing that in life because we infer the relationship between the factual and the ethical, but in philosophy, it's important to note (or at least, I agree that it's important to note) that we should not jump from statements of fact to statements of prescription without something solid between. E.g. you can assert the fact that I am currently on a train, but you can't leap from there to saying I ought to pay for my train ticket without something linking the factual statement and the prescriptive statement. (Again, irl, we just intuit the middle ground - but that's not good enough for philosophers and ethicists).

And some razors are just people attempting to assert their own opinions and dismiss others based on their feelings. E.g. Alder's Razor: if someone cannot be proven through experiment and observation, it's not worthy of debate. Sure, Alder would love to argue about whether this train has WiFi and then look up the answer, but apparently doesn't care to debate when it stops being the Train of Theseus because that's a question of identity and how we interact with the nature of time. Which, let's be clear, is just Alder being lazy and uninteresting and calling it a razor.

[sokkastyles]

I know that you have called out Azula fans for making the assumption that just because she was in a straightjacket she was abused in her asylum. Especially since Aang's era has little options outside of bending removal to safely contain someone as hostile and dangerous as Azula.

But have you read Gene Yang's comments in which he all but says that there is systemic abuse in Fire Nation asylums that not only made Azula's condition worse, but (implicitly) allowed her to recruit fellow asylum inmates to her terrorist cell? And if so, does that change your analysis?

Also, what are your thoughts on Gene Yang saying in an interview (https://www.hypable.com/gene-yang-interview/) that comics!Azula developed a spilt personality disorder?

Because I know that you have written how you don't like the tendency of writers to conflate mental illness with female villainy. Especially in Azula's case since her villainy can be easily explained by her growing up in the indoctrinated Fire Nation Court and her father's abuse while her mental breakdown can easily be explained as stress-based, not the start of any long-term mental illness.

Anyway, sorry if my ask comes off as sealioning and I hope you have a good day!

Here is the interview where the above photo comes from: https://www.darkhorse.com/Blog/1027/avatar-last-airbender-search-cbr-interviews-gene-y

The above photo comes from the library edition of Smoke and Shadow

I didn't mean that people assumed she was abused just because she was shown in a straight jacket. What I meant was that the fact that all we are shown of the asylum is Azula and one other person being wheeled in the background, both in straight jackets, and the fact that people assume that she was abused because she was institutionalized are part of the same ableist stereotype about the mental healthcare system.

This comment that you screenshotted does not say that there is systemic abuse in Fire Nation asylums, it says "We'll see what a prolonged stay in a Fire Nation mental institution does to a person." At least in what you screenshotted, there is no specification about what that means, but I HIGHLY doubt it means that Yang was trying to make a statement about abuse in mental health facilities - which IS a rampant problem, by the way. I never said that abuse doesn't happen. Abuse happens everywhere, and it is much more likely to happen in places where abusers can get away with having authority over a vulnerable class of people. But what I think Yang meant is that he just sees being institutionalized as the same sort of stereotype that I was pushing against, the idea that getting mental help always makes you worse, and not better, and mental healthcare facilities are prisons in everything but name. This is a harmful stereotype because it stigmatizes the idea of anyone getting mental help, and I'm not just talking about institutions, because of course institutionalization is far from the only option available, but it's the one that gets the most publicity in media, and it's almost ALWAYS negative. It doesn't matter whether it's a Fire Nation asylum or an Earth Kingdom one. And if it did, why would Zuko not choose the best one he could for Azula? I doubt Yang sees any difference.

If Gene Yang were trying to actually say something about abuse of the mentally ill, he would not have written such a callous portrayal. I've seen some theories that he wrote it that way because he thinks Azula being abused is justified, but I think that's ascribing him not only more malice than he deserves, but more credit, because it implies that he actually thought for five seconds about mental healthcare. Hanlon's Razor comes to mind: never attribute to malice what can often be explained by stupidity.

I doubt that Gene Yang even recognizes that putting a patient in a straight jacket for no discernable reason would, in the real world, be abusive, he just used it to signal to the reader that Azula is "crazy." Which is its own problem, but a serious portrayal of abuse in the mental healthcare system it is not, so treating this story like Azula is being abused by her brother and his friends is just more demonization of mental health issues on top of what is already there. Gene Yang did not say that because he wants to imply that Azula was abused, he said it because he thinks mental healthcare facilities are horrible places that no one would ever want to be in, because that's the typical portrayal of them in popular media. While yes, abuse does happen, it does nothing for people who need help to imply that getting help is worse than the alternative.

For a nuanced portrayal of mental health facilities in popular media, I'd point to the first season of FX's Legion, which, while I don't think it always gets things right, does a good job of portraying the institution as a place that's not actively harmful, and David's sister is not portrayed as wrong for making the decision to institutionalize him, even though the show also didn't shy away from David's trauma from being institutionalized.

I have not read Smoke and Shadow, but you also have to consider that Azula and the other characters she recruits are villains, and of course Azula is going to say that being institutionalized is horrible because she doesn't see anything wrong with the way she is or any reason why she would need help.

I read the part in the linked interview about a split personality, and to me it doesn't look like he's saying that Azula actually has a split personality, he's talking more about the way he wrote her character. Here's the context:

I love Azula. She’s such a great character. She’s totally in control for most of the animated series, and then at the very end, she cracks. She goes insane. We wanted to keep both her controlling side and her crazy side in the comics, so we gave her something of a split personality. We also wanted to figure out what it means to care for somebody like that, somebody who vacillates between evil and insane.

I don't think he's referring to any sort of diagnosis, and that's a big problem with treating Azula seriously as a mentally ill character. What is Azula's mental illness, exactly? I only see the words "crazy," "insane," and "evil" being thrown around as modifiers. Oh, I know plenty of people have diagnosed her, and some of those people seem to be speaking from personal experience, and again, I don't begrudge anyone their headcanons if they see themselves in Azula. But Azula does not have a canon mental illness. "Vacillates between evil and insane," is not a diagnosis, nor is it even a very good description of the character and what's going on with her. Why is she institutionalized in the first place, other than that the plot needed a place for her to be where she wouldn't be able to break out using her bending? If it was Zuko's decision to put here there, when did he make that decision, and how did he come to it? Especially since in "The Search," at least, nobody seems to know that Azula is actively hallucinating and their reactions to Azula are mostly to be confused and shocked by her "crazy" behavior. I just find it really odd that the conclusions people come to after seeing such a half-baked portrayal are "wow Azula is being abused by her brother and the writers want her to be abused" and not "wow what a badly written story."

What's even stranger is that I didn't realize until I read the article you linked that Gene Yang also wrote American Born Chinese. He is not a bad writer. But these comics are so badly written, I just have to assume that Yang either didn't care and was just trying to make a buck or the interference from Bryke turned whatever he was trying to do into the hack job that we got.

[cookingwithroxy]

"So good catch, tho from the wording of your anon, I’m not quite certain that the truth was EXACTLY What you were aiming for." I'll cop to being a bit pissy; thinking that you were preaching about misinformation while spreading it, though I'll also pass some blame to the character limit. I honestly didn't expect this prompt correction, and am glad I was wrong. I disagree about how bad the fake quote is, but that's a disagreement of judgement, not of facts, so kudos on practicing what you preach.

Wow, gee, it’s almost as if this stems from you assuming other people act in bad faith, and are always utterly and completely aware of the actual historical accuracy of everything they reblog from the moment that they see it as opposed to the more simple truth that people tend to trust what they’re told and their actions are done out of ignorance, rather than out of malice.

I’m sorry to be grumpy about it but I’m very serious. Hanlon’s Razor is a thing for a reason.

[seancekitsch]

Richie Tozier x Reader: 27 Years Later... Revamped!

You heard it here folks! I’ve updated my big Richie x Reader post to be more inclusive! The reader is now gender neutral instead of female, and I’ve mixed elements from the book and the new movie IT chapter 2! warning, i am a book purist so there are some plot elements from the book that do not occur in the movie! Enjoy!

-Growing up, you had always been Stan’s. You’d be each other’s go-to people, sometimes even closer than Richie and Eddie. He had been your perfect Boy Scout crush growing up, and after the first encounter with IT, he decided he couldn’t dance around his feelings any longer and asked you out.

-You always felt like the loser on the “outside”, you were at all group hang outs and meetings but you didn’t really hang out with anyone but Stan besides the occasional sleepover with Bev, but after Stan’s bar mitzvah that changed. Richie was the only loser to attend (besides you) and that meant a great deal to you. Despite how Stan used to get annoyed at Richie’s jokes, you always made sure to go out of your way to include him and befriend him after that day.

-Even though the losers drifted during high school, you remained Stan’s partner and Richie’s best friend besides Eddie. You had a lot more in common with Richie than you had originally thought because both of you essentially had to raise yourselves. Stan found a new found respect for the fellow loser over this connection you had.

-Stan was your first everything, from kisses to heartbreak. Yes, heartbreak. You broke up the summer before college. You were going out to California for school on an honours program and he was going to a university in Georgia with his twin sister. It was practical but it didn’t mean it didn’t sting either of you. You had promised to remain on good terms, however.

-Despite him moving on in Georgia, you never really did. He after college quickly married a woman named Patricia and settled in Atlanta. You met back up with Richie after graduation, and moved into a townhouse with him in Beverly Hills. Despite dating around, you never had much luck, probably thanks to your loud tall housemate.

-You and Richie actually flew out to Stan’s wedding, and while your first love was gone, there were no ill feelings from either of you. You shared a dance with him at the reception and told him how much you approved of his new wife. It meant a lot to him.

-After the wedding, you start to drift from Stan. Soon you don’t hear from each other at all. Richie was the only loser left for you.

-As much as he hated to say it, Richie saw this as his opportunity. You see, he had cared about you since the bar mitzvah. He knew there was someone he loved, but he couldn’t remember who. He guessed because he remembered you so vividly and nothing else, it had to be you. He was respectful of Stan and you, so he had never said anything and kept his distance. With Stan married, and Richie as your roommate (and secretly ruining most of your dates, whether he meant to or not) you were free, and he could hope you’d somehow feel the same.

-You and Richie live it up in Beverly Hills, networking and working side by side; going to celebrity parties and drinking with the big wigs.

-You’ve been tipsy and kissed at these parties, always to fend off unwanted company. It became the perfect cover and a casual display of affection for your closest friend. Despite it being a defence, you once kissed in a taxi after leaving one of these parties. It was a deep and long kiss, and there was no audience for it to be necessary, but it was never spoke of again.

-You became a writer on a semi popular TV series and Richie became a stand up comedian. While you hadn’t gone to school for writing, Richie had encouraged you to go for the job. You had always been good at writing, even minoring in it during college. He helped you prepare and edit scripts. He would even act out scenes in his famous impressions.

-Things were going so well, until one day Mike Hanlon calls. At first, you don’t even remember him until he calls you your old childhood nickname. You have to go back to Derry. IT is back.

-The plane ride is long, and both you and Richie decide to knock a few back in the airport bar and sleep it off on the flight. When you wake up at landing, your head is in the hollow of where his neck and shoulder meet and his arm is around you. Your hands are interlaced. Sure, the two of you had shared beds on road trips and when you’d travel for job auditions, but you had never really snuggled like this. You’re both blushing messes when you get to baggage claim.

-When you finally get back in town, you head straight to the Chinese restaurant in town in the car Richie rents. You recognise everyone immediately, embracing each of them with warmth and love... except for Stan who is nowhere to be seen. Mike assures you that he had contacted him.

-Despite his absence, you all enjoy dinner. You notice Bev and Bill still carry torches for one another after all these years. Ben looks amazing and seems very successful. Mike is even wiser than he was when you were all young. Eddie is still just as hyper and fun to talk to.

-After the meal, you all head off from the restaurant to talk strategy. On the walk out of the building, Bev pulls you back to walk and talk with her. It’s as if nothing has changed and you’re having a sleepover again. She specifically asks if you and Richie are a couple. When you deny this, she laughs and says that’s insane because of how you seem so in love with one another.

-You’d never say it, but you had imagined a life with Richie before. You can’t really be roommates with someone you have such a bond with without thinking of these things. But late at night when you can’t sleep you think about how nice it would be to have his arms around you, pressed into his lean and warm chest. There have been times when he’s brought people back, and he has a type in the people he brings home. A lot of them either share your name, or Eddie’s. You realize this isn’t a coincidence that you’d hear him calling out these names. Tozier sounded like a nice title to gain. It would be fun to see his last name, even hyphenated, on yours in any of your writing credits. But you’re snapped out of your thoughts the second Bev gets through on the line she’s trying to reach Stan at.

-Patricia was on the line; she said Stan had slit his wrists in the bathtub just an hour earlier. IT had been written on the wall in his blood. This makes your blood run cold. You can’t even react for a good five minutes even though everyone is watching you very carefully.

-The day you had all made that blood pact, Stan had made an off handed joke about slitting your wrists instead of just your hands. It had made you uncomfortable then, but scares the shit out of you now.

-When you finally do react, it’s like your whole world crumbles. You think you might be screaming, you know you’re definitely crying. You don’t even realize you’ve fled past all of the other losers cars until Richie’s arms are around you and he’s pressing you close to him on the curb.

-He let’s you scream it out, let’s you dig your nails into his skin until he bleeds, let’s you soak his nice dress shirt with tears and spit. Anything to comfort you and be close to you. This is the most thankful you’ve ever been for Richard Tozier.

-When you’ve stopped crying, there’s a newfound hate in your heart. You’re going to kill IT and it’s never going to hurt anyone ever again. You vow to avenge Stanley Uris. The group can’t disagree, even though half of them want to run. You all vow that before tomorrow is over, the clown will die.

-Richie and Eddie tell you how much they want to leave, and they try to get you to leave as well. But between your need for vengeance and Bill and Mike’s ranting about a strategy to kill IT, they don’t end up leaving town. That night, you can’t sleep. You aren’t sure how, maybe it’s a trick of IT’s illusions, but somehow you end up in Richie’s bed. It’s restless and you’re both terrified, but you cling together in solidarity and something stronger than lifelong friendship. But by the time he wakes you’re gone already, looking for your token to burn.

-You find it in the clubhouse, hidden behind one of the wooden boards nailed to the floor. It’s the little paper program from Stan’s bar mitzvah. An important day that quite literally changed your whole life.

-Upon returning to the townhouse, you find It nearly empty, with Eddie patching up a hole in his face. He’s mumbling something about the library while he’s finishing sanitizing his wound, so that’s where the two of you head when he’s done.

-Richie is shaken after killing Bowers, and now it’s your turn to comfort him. He shakes as you slip your arm around his, guiding him as he walks. Your other hand squeezes his bicep every few minutes to remind him to breathe. You’re here, and you’ve got him. It helps.

-Returning to Neibolt fills you with all of the memories you’d struggled to remember the day before. All of the fear and isolation of your childhood filled you so completely that you thought you could be sick. But you enter anyway, nausea and all.

-seeing IT take the form of Stan’s body is what does it for you though. You’re doubled over vomiting and crying, your hands sting against the broken glass and splinters on the floor. You’re only half aware of the chaos going around you until Richie kicks what you can only describe as a spider with Stan’s head and razor sharp teeth away from you. And then everything is so horrifyingly clear. This is only the beginning; it will get worse. When the head spider attacks Richie, you try to pull it off of him, but you aren’t strong enough. It’s up to Eddie, but Eddie is frozen.

-Down in the sewers is even worse. The fight takes a larger toll on all of you than expected. Eddie finally abandons all of the fear he cling to his entire life and charged head first into the fight, only to be stabbed through the torso and not get back up. You’re bloodied by one of IT’s claws, your wrist probably broken and one of your legs is in agony, so much so that you have to fight to stand while dodging the giant spider monster in it’s true form. All of you are injured in some way but team work weakens the creature.

-ripping out IT’s heart and destroying it should have been the end of all of the horror, and at first you think it is. You’re all relieved, until you notice Eddie hasn’t gotten up. Eddie and Richie had always had a special bond. You knew this better than anyone. He was the first one to Eddie’s side and held him as he tried to get him to respond.

-Eddie Kaspbrak is dead, and you can feel Richie’s heart breaking beside you. You hold his hand as he goes, and the rest of the losers hold each other. Richie presses a long kiss to his face, finally allowing tears to fall for the first time in the lifetime you’ve known him. It hurts even more knowing you can’t carry his body out of this place.

-As you leave the sewers, something changes. It’s as if the curse on you all has finally been lifted. You know you all have to go back to real life and finally live without fear, but fear is all any of you have ever known. The water of the quarry is healing to all of you, in the physical case of soothing aching muscles, and spiritually. It’s a rebirth.

-Richie cries again in the water, and you all come together to hold him. Under the water you feel a hand grasp yours, and you don’t even have to open your eyes to know that it’s Richies hand.

-Much to yours, and i think everyone’s surprise, Bev leaves with Ben. You could have sworn you heard her going at it with Bill the other night. Bill stays in town another week to recover before leaving and starting to work on his next novel. Mike resumes his life without the burden of watching Derry for ITs return, even more wise than he ever had been. You and Richie were another story.

-The second he saw you bleed in the sewer, he had gone berserk. Nothing else had mattered in that moment but destroying the thing that hurt you and Eddie. He knew after that he couldn’t ignore his feelings any longer. If his past love was gone, he had to pursue his future.

-He is uncharacteristically quiet on the way to the airport, and without speaking you know why. You’re all each other has now.

-He parks, gets out, walks around and opens the car door for you. Before you can reach for your suitcase, he reaches for you. The kiss is sobering yet intoxicating all at the same time. His hands rake through your hair and your arms rise up and wrap around his neck. The only reason to stop is the lack of oxygen that leaves you both dizzy. For once in your life, neither of you need to talk to be heard.

-The flight home feels weightless. You’re joking and lighthearted and giddy. If you weren’t as clear minded you could have sworn there was music in the air.

-When you arrive home, you decide to convert one of your bedrooms into a guest room. Stan’s letter to you both is framed in the living room. For once, you fall asleep peacefully. You fall asleep next to your best friend, your soulmate.

——————

Request anything you’d like to see! My ask box is open!

[bitchinrichie]

Famous Last Words // Stozier

I finally finished it!! It only took 8 years!! I hope you all like it and if I wrote it correctly, it will tear your heart out :)

So many

He felt lost, everything was happening all at once, his head pounding. Stanley was blinded, he squeezed his eyes shut, silent tears raced down his cheeks. He had been happy, living with the love of his life; his past had other plans for him. Derry, Maine hadn’t even been a memory to him until Mike Hanlon called to remind him of a promise.

Richie was downstairs, making coffee at 4 in the afternoon because he had been up all night working on his stand up. He was slightly worried about his husband, who looked so sickly pale after that phone call that Stan had said was from a client. The phone rang again, Richie’s phone, Derry was calling and he couldn’t breathe.

Bright lights that cast a shadow

What seemed like centuries ago, Stan reminisced in the memory of when he discovered his soulmate. He was 12, soulmates had a black mark where their significant other would touch them for the first time. His mark was on his palm, his best friend, Richie, had his on his cheek. That day, Stan cut his hand on a tree he was climbing and without thinking, Richie kissed it. In shock, Stan kissed Richie’s cheek.

“Songbird?? Are you okay?” Richie called from the bottom of the staircase. He started calling him that after the Fleetwood Mac song they listened to on their first date. There was no response.

But can I speak?

Stanley wished his childhood had just been secret dates with his boyfriend but it was filled with forgotten horrors. At 13 years old, a group of his misfit friends, the losers club, had fought an evil clown that lived in the sewers. At 14 years old, he couldn’t look in a mirror without falling onto a panic attack from the scars on his face. At 15 years old, Richie got Stan to love himself again.

Richie knew how much Stan hated Derry and how it had almost killed him. A promise was a promise, but he couldn’t see Stan suffer again. He made his way up the stairs, looking in the bedroom and his office. On his desk, there was a letter with Richie’s name on it.

Well, is it hard understanding

Stan thought of all the memories he had of Richie: the laughs, the crying, the fights, hugs, kisses, and everything in between. Richie would stop at nothing to make him laugh and Stan loved it. He remembered their wedding day, they had it in secret and only got it legalized last year. He loved Richie with all of his heart.

“Dear Richie,

I’m sure you’ve figured it out by now that the phone call wasn’t from a client and maybe you got one too. I know we owe Mike and our friends to go back to Derry but I just can’t. I’m the weakest one of us anyway, I’m not asking you to stay either because I know you’re too stubborn. I want you to know that I love you with all of my heart and I will always love you. I’m sorry…”

I'm incomplete?

Stan almost got killed in the sewers beneath Derry, trapped in a trance of his untimely demise. He witnessed his own death and never told anyone, not even Richie. A bathtub, blood, and a single razor blade. He never thought it would happen, that he would die so early, it was just how that clown ruined him. He was wrong.

Richie couldn’t finish the letter, his glasses fogged up from his hot tears streaming down his face. No, this wasn’t happening, it couldn’t be. He threw the letter on the floor and ran when he heard running water shut off.

A life that's so demanding

Stan felt hopeless, everything was calculating in his mind and yet he felt numb. He opened his eyes, sinking into the tub and reciting the promise from so many years ago,

“I swear… I swear it… I’m sorry”

I get so weak

Richie tried to open the bathroom door but it was locked, Stan never shut him out. He was hyperventilating and he couldn’t see through his tears,

“Stan? Baby?? Oh god please open the door,” Richie pounded on the door, violent sobs erupted from his chest when there was no response.

A love that's so demanding

Stan wasn’t lost anymore, he wasn’t in pain nor was he blinded. It was quiet and dark, everything and nothing collided into a peaceful state. He sank into the tub further, worry no longer encapsulating him. He was free, he was at peace.

Richie sobbed against the door, his mind racing with memories of Stan: their first kiss, their first date, their first time, dancing in the rain, holding hands in secret.

I can't speak

In a single moment of clarity, Richie remembered the small pin on top of the door. He collected himself off the floor, grabbing the small pin and unlocking the door. It took several tries because of his frustration and fear of what awaited him. He convinced himself that Stan was fine, he needed to be alone and that he would never leave him. Not like this.

I am not afraid to keep on living

Stan lay in the bathtub, blood filling the once clear water, his wrists gushing red. A razor blade on the bathroom floor surrounded by poisoned water, bloody water. A horrific scene but Stan held a slight smile, his eyes no longer holding the beautiful light. Richie dropped to his knees, crawling over to his lover, his songbird.

I am not afraid to walk this world alone

Blood now covered Richie’s hands and clothes as he held Stan in his arms, pleading that this was a nightmare. He wished they hadn’t helped Bill Denbrough fight a demonic clown because he lost his brother. He wished Stan believed in himself more, he wished he was a better friend and husband. He wished he wasn’t alone and scared.

Honey, if you stay

“Stan… Stanley I’m sorry. I should have known, I should have stopped you. I’m not mad at you, I’m mad at the clown, I’m mad at Bill, I’m mad at me. I know you would tell me it’s not Bill’s fault but we would’ve been happier kids. You would still fucking be here, but you’re not. I love you, I love you so much and I will keep you in my heart for the rest of my life”

I'll be forgiven

“... in my heart for the rest of my life,” Stan giggled at his boyfriend being so cheesy for once,

“I know dummy, I’m not going anywhere. I love you too.”

Richie smiled, snuggling closer to him as they sat on the ground, watching birds. They were wrapped in a blanket, Stan holding binoculars to his face, looking for the blue bird he saw yesterday.

“Hey Stanny? What do you think happens when we die?”

“I don’t know, Rich. I think we get reincarnated, I hope I become a bird. Flying free, a part of the beauty of nature, it’s peaceful”

Nothing you can say can stop me going home

@prezy-wez

(I couldn’t find your new user but I finally wrote this)

[threewaysdivided]

I saw your conversation about Sam Manson. I was talking to Imekitty about this, but I’ve noticed a few things that (sort of) make Sam’s relationship with her parents seem more like teen-drama than actual hardship. If you look closely, she’s got a lot in common with them: outspoken political-activism, possible shared-interest in vintage clothes, and no shame in saying they don’t like certain people. Also, after the Fentons, they were the first to volunteer to use the Ecto-Skeleton, risks and all.

(In reference to this post.)

It’s been a little while since I rewatched DP so I’m not well-placed to do a detail-analysis implication-breakdown right now, but yeah - that fits with the overall impression I remember getting.  To me they came across as being sort of old fashioned set-in-their-ways conservative and snooty, and maybe a bit too Pleasantville -  but more often in the way of parents who do genuinely want good things for her and to be able to be proud of her despite not really understanding her interests, choices or friends and being very bad at expressing it.  Plus she seems to have her grandmother fully in her corner a lot of the time.

I really wish that the writers had committed to one or the other; either making it clear that Sam’s martyr/ persecution complex is mostly just regular self-inflicted teen-drama BS and giving her an arc addressing it, OR fleshing out the idea that she faces a lot of judgement/ pressure/ control/ nonacceptance in her home life and that her negative traits are a bi-product of defensive/ coping mechanisms resulting from that strained dynamic, rather treating things with Roger Rabbit Rules.  

(Which isn’t to say that a person can’t have similar interests/ personality traits to, and positive interactions with, their parents while still having a strained, broken or even abusive relationship with them on a deeper level, but the show never really goes hard enough in either direction to make it work.)

As mentioned the last post, this is kind of a consistent pattern across DP - the writers tend go with the low-effort first answer for whatever is Funny or Awesome or Convenient in the moment rather than putting in the work to find a solution that’s consistent with the characterisation, themes and world-lore overall.  There’s enough internal contradiction in the show that I don’t think it’s actually possible to take every canon detail as canon without fundamentally breaking things.  And in some ways that’s kind of cool; it makes the series more open to interpretation, and trying to distinguish authorial intent from authorial incompetence and come up with theories that account for as many pieces of canon as possible is really satisfying.  But, you know, it’s also kind of bad writing in general.

I think the thing that bothers me about Sam’s characterisation in particular is that - where it tends to be more obviously out-of-character when it shows up in other places - there’s a pattern to the inconsistency with how the writers handle Sam:

Throughout the series there’s a double standard in how Sam sees herself/ seems to expects others to act, compared to her own behaviour:

Despite being pro-pacifism she’s okay with smacking Tucker and encouraging Danny to destroy the trucks she doesn’t like

Sam values self-expression and is a feminist, but derides other girls for wanting to express themselves in a conventionally feminine way

Sam doesn’t like being forced to conform to others’ values but is okay with forcing others to conform to hers

Despite being anti-consumerist she shows very little discomfort at, or awareness of, her lavish home life and material belongings

She encourages Danny to take the moral high ground towards his bullies but has no problem antagonising and getting into petty verbal spats with Paulina herself

Sam stalks Danny and his love interest out of jealousy/ protectiveness but threatens to end their friendship when he does the same

In Mystery Meat, when Danny tries to express his discomfort/ anxiety, Sam hijacks the conversation to complain about her own parents instead of listening.

In One of a Kind Sam photographs Danny and Tucker hugging in their sleep, without their knowledge, with the stated intent of putting it in the yearbook, then uses it to blackmail them into silence. 

Side note: this joke is also tacky on a meta-level because it boils down to “male intimacy ha ha toxic masculinity no homo amiright?“ Would have been nice if show didn’t use low-key sexist humour as much as it did.

Instead of expressing that she’s hurt by Danny’s “pretty girls” comment in Parental Bonding, Sam retaliates by pushing him to ask Paulina out - a move she knows will most likely result in him getting publicly shut down and humiliated.

Then, after getting the result she wanted, she comes over to gloat and insults Paulina, rather than dropping it now that her point’s been made, which is what ultimately sets off the episode’s subplot.

In Memory Blank Sam permanently physically alters Phantom’s appearance to better suit her tastes while he’s not in a position to understand or give informed consent, then lies when Danny notices and asks about it later.

To be clear this definitely isn’t the be-all-and-end-all of her character and it’s not there 100% of the time - there are plenty of moments when she is loyal and generous and helpful and sincerely kind and where her stubbornness comes in handy.  But it’s the aggregate pattern of all these small instances that drives a crack through the foundation of her character integrity; producing this insidious undercurrent alternate-reading of Sam as someone who, at a deep level, just doesn’t respect or recognise that the emotional needs, pains, opinions, autonomy and boundaries of others are as real and valid as her own, and who responds to criticism with passive-aggressive hostility.

Again, I think that’s why people are so quick to point out that line from Phantom Planet, even though we all know the episode was a complete mess.  None of the examples above are particularly bad in isolation - you can’t really point at any one of them and say “oh no, bad girl” without sounding like you’re making a mountain out of molehill and irrationally hating on her just to hate on her.  It’s an uncomfortable slowburn pattern of subtle micro-transgressions that accumulates across the series - a “you might not notice it but your brain did”.  And it makes sense that it would be the worst-written episode that amplifies and brings that regular bad-writing undercurrent close enough to the surface for people to consciously recognise and use it to articulate those frustrations.

To wit: Not because it’s most telling of her character but because it’s most telling of the specific bad writing that regularly hurts her character. 

And again, from a storytelling point of view, it’s okay for Sam to have flaws.  She’s a teenager!  She’s learning.  She’s allowed to be egocentric and self-important and do things that aren’t the best at times.  It’s okay if these are her character weaknesses and a source of conflict with the rest of the cast.  But again, for that to be satisfying something really should have come of it.  It would have been nice if the writers were willing to have any self-awareness about these flaws being flaws that a person should recognise and grow past in order to have healthy relationships with others.  But they didn’t - because it’s easier to keep her as she is - to the point that they’ll actively bend the narrative to roll back or skip over moments that would have necessitated that growth.  So, even though they call attention to her flaws, the writers end up rewarding and enabling them instead of letting her learn.

And again, this isn’t meant to hate on Sam.  Hanlon’s Razor in full effect: it’s clearly a result of authorial/editorial incompetence rather than deliberate malice.  I know this isn’t the intended interpretation.

My preferred reading of Sam Manson is that she’s a Rosa Hubermann/ Hermione Granger/ YJS1 Artemis Crock-type character.  Someone who’s passionate and forceful and maybe a bit abrasive and hard to love at a glance, but whose core nature is compassionate and sincerely kind and loyal-to-the-death for the people they value.  I wish I could 100% like her without caveats; to be able to say that even if I don’t agree with her flaws I can at least understand that they’re a valid product of the life she lives, that they make her who she is and that she’s trying her best to be a good person who will get better despite them.  

But I can’t because the writers don’t give her that.  They’re always prioritising other things over the integrity of her character.  They don’t give her background enough time and context to make her negative traits feel resonant with it (because that would take time away from the Wicked Cool Radical Ghost-Fighting Superhero Action™) and the framing and plotting doesn’t give her chances to recognise or grow past them (because that would mean character development and those negative traits are an easy source of cheap conflict).  The writers just don’t seem to care all that much about Sam - her actual character, who she is, how she came to be that way, what she wants or how her negative traits would actually play against Danny and the others.

And that sucks.  Because she has a lot of potential to be a well-rounded and great character.  I’ve seen plenty of fics that seize that potential and roll with those gaps and the result is very good.  I wish I could like her canon depiction without feeling like I have to actively ignore a bunch of latent behavioural red flags as the price of entry.

She deserved better.