#thanks for letting me rant about iwtv

[mala-santa-radfem]

(About your tags in Luis' post) I don't necessarily think the show was trying to make it seem like a good thing but rather "giving shelter and a job" to women it's how he justifies it to himself but it becomes the show let's us know he is aware he is hurting them because of the priest scene where he confesses he ignores their cries during the night and that he takes advantage of women down on their luck.

It should have been definitely criticized or talked about more than only one scene but it was still more guilt than the Luis from the movie saying basically nothing about owning slaves.

you're right about the confession scene and i do think he does feel guilty but i think that's just his religious guilt. i genuinely don't think he understands the abuse those women go through. at least that's how i see it, he knows it's wrong due to his religion but at the end that means shit to me personally as someone who heavily dislikes religion. that's just my interpretation, excuse me if i'm forgetting something.

i also think the show glamorizes it by stating how great it is that women can count their own money, and that they live in that fancy house partying 24/7, getting expensive gifts and getting to "choose" what they want to do with the clients. (a client wanted to rape a woman, she said no and beat him, louis took pity on him because he was a client)

the whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth and i wonder why the writers couldn't choose any other job for him.

i appreciate the show for trying to give a little bit more depth to louis, and as you mentioned he's capable of feeling guilty. i always thought louis from the books was a little bland and the fact that he owned slaves made it hard to me to feel sorry for him most of the time.

[thewingedwolf]

i don’t engage with iwtv fandom at all bc i know there’s a large contingent of people who didn’t like the way claudia was adapted and i enjoyed her and found her so well written that if i see someone implying she’s not deep simply bc she has no time for lestat (…which is book canon anyway) i will have an angry meltdown on par with my ouat days and that’s not healthy.

anyway claudia and claudeleine are better than everyone else in this series and yes i’m including all your other french whites and evil twinks thanks!!!!!!

[obaaaa]

A small rant with all the respect and love I have for this show and fandom!

I think many of us don't value AMC enough. I don't want to kiss a big corporation's ass, but here are the facts.

AMC is a small channel that has been experiencing financial difficulties for years.

Their streaming is nothing for the industry.

The channel's audience, with such a heteronormative history, has a clear resistance to iwtv

And yet it's also clear that amc think of iwtv as something long term

I see a lot of people bashing amc and prasing netflix for their work on social media (which it is very likely that amc is paying to have) but I see no difference in what the immortal universe accounts does... the only real difference is that the reach of one is millions of times greater!

I'm going to be very honest here, personally I don't understand some disproportionate complaints about amc's marketing work with the series, I followed everything from the announcement of the Season 2 renewal, to the last episode's release, and considering all the company's problems, I found the work very decent, we need to understand that amc is not hbo or netflix, the series will not become a mainstream success overnight and maybe not at all.

We have to be thankful that they are thinking long term, because this would never happen on Netflix. For me, amc's biggest mistake is not having a more efficient worldwide distribution strategy, in this matter they make a huge mistake and it's a problem!

But this time on Netflix is ​​being good to humble us, the series is not making it into the top 10, and with the cherry on top, Mayfair Witches is! and that reminds me of something else, let's avoid bashing the other Immortal Universe series on the official social media, even if you don't like it or don't care, just don't engage! MW has a appeal with the regular audience, so we have to stop thinking otherwise. The rivalry will do more harm then anything else to The Vampire Chronicles future on television, because for the company the project is the whole universe!

Also amc is that. a company, not a fan club! they need to work on the other products, there is no point in harassing the social media manager because they're probably working on several things at the same time.

Ultimately, the fandom needs to be more strategic, the future of the show is our priority, but for that to happen we have to be realistic and humble.

Anyway closing with this cute jam moment!

[agathah]

Hey!! Obviously I fucking love your work. I have so much of it queued up right now.

I just wanted to apologize on behalf of some of the IWTV fans who have been harassing you. I want to let you know you’re valid and you don’t need to answer to anyone about your work or how you present it. EVER.

Idk what’s up with our fandom, but there is so much unnecessary hatred and entitlement going around. Draw/paint whomever you want, however you want, and with whatever tags you want. Anyone who can’t handle your authentic self expression can LEAVE because they don’t deserve it. Fan art is for the artist and/or anyone PAYING you for custom commissions. If they’re not giving you money, they need to learn to cope with the extremely minor inconvenience of scrolling past content they don’t like.

Sorry if this turned into a rant. I’m defensive on your behalf because I appreciate your work so much, and it’s childish for the fandom to bully its own creators into submission. You are keeping us fed with content, and we get to view it for free on your blog. You are generous and prolific and seem genuinely kind. Not to mention, you put so much work into your craft. You don’t deserve this condescension, especially from people who don’t even have the balls to come off anon.

Whew. Sorry about that against lol I need sleep.

(Several fellow IWTV creators have had to give me this speech, and it helped me, so I hope it helps you too. Since the season ended, many people have gone feral in a bad way. It’s the loud minority of fans, and I hope you I hope you know your real fans will go to bat for you.)

oh this made me so emotional, thank you so much for your words. I appreciate them and you so much. I genuinely feel so seen by you, and by everyone who has been supporting me lately. It's truly something I could never thank you enough. And the fact you took your time to write me this beautiful message? Ah yes I'm soft haha. And you're right, I shouldn't even bother answering those harassing comments, I just feel so scared of being misunderstood, because I never, ever have bad intentions while posting my art, I post it because it makes me feel more like myself, and because I want people to express themselves through it just like I do. I feel a strong sense of community in the iwtv fandom, that's why I work hard to give you guys content, because I relate to you and I have the opportunity of showing you how I see and interpret this universe. Again, thank you so much for this, it was really important to me 🖤

[murfpersonalblog]

This is SO ironic--I was JUST about to make a post ranting about the Immortals Universe and Mayfair Witches, and lo!

"“Interview With the Vampire” was the first to be developed. Johnson knew it would set the tone for the shows to follow — even though each series is conceived as its own contained world. The shows at present are not engineered for crossovers or connecting storylines, though that may come down the road."

I friggin knew it--AMC seems insecure in their ability to be allowed to do all of AR's books, or connect the ones they already have. Which is so odd, considering they shelled out so much money for the rights.

"These shows are meant to be pillars of AMC’s schedule that represent the breadth of Rice’s milieu – and the value of AMC’s investment in Rice’s literary estate."

I would hope so! The investment's huge, but it feels like y'all aren't actively tryna build a connected UNIVERSE. Paul mentioning the Mayfairs in a throwaway line and the tour guide telling Rowan there's vampires in NOLA is cute, teeheehee look they did The Thing, but so far your PILLARS are shaky AF.

It seems like AMC only has 3 shows in the works--IWTV, MW, and the Talamasca? That's lame--where's the werewolves? Where's the mummies? Where's the spirits? (If y'all don't do Atlantis & the Aliens/Angels/Bird-People from Bravenna Imma be SO mad.) Chop chop!

“The connections between the books are there, but they’re not easily realized,” Johnson says. “It’s sort of fun that each one of these shows so far is so different from the other.”

The most crossover's in TVC & the Mayfairs, but everyone knows AR didn't do it justice, and gave up after Blood Canticle (thank god). I'm curious if AMC intends to cross ALL of the books, cuz some of them seem way more self-contained than others.

I can definitely see Servant of the Bones cross with The Mummy; and there's potential for the Talamasca to infiltrate Rabbinic circles (SotB) and archaeological ones (RtD). And definitely Angel Time.

I LOVE The Wolf Gift series; I NEED to see AR's werewolves/morphenkinder on my screen, it's so good. But they're all the way in California doing their own thing--I guess AMC could bring in the Talamasca, cuz the wolves end up all over TV/news/social media and very much DON'T keep a low profile.

AMC's weakest link by far is the Mayfair Witches.

Esta Spalding, showrunner and exec producer of “Mayfair Witches,” says.... “He is absolutely for me the gut check.... He’s brilliant about [pinpointing] what’s working about something you’re doing, or what’s not working.”

Could've fooled me! Mayfair Witches is ridiculous--I'm rewatching it right now and I'm just flabbergasted at how much is NOT WORKING:

Daddario's bad acting & wide crazy-eyed confusion & lack of chemistry

The writing. These characters make the stupidest decisions, and are unlikeable people.

I was rooting for Lasher, particularly since they did nothing to develop WHY everyone's so scared of him--the Mayfairs and ALL THE LOCALS. The family and THE HOUSE are infamous--everyone knows about The Man and to stay away from them. But AMC!Lasher's not scary; he's just a creep!

They striped Lasher's lore--(if they ever say Taltos on this show I'll be shocked), and the Scotland portions dragged on way too long for such little payoff

They striped all of the 13 Witches' lore--we don't even know HALF these wenches' names; let alone what they each contributed to Lasher's resurrection. They're not talking about reincarnation at all. We know nothing about Stella or JULIEN or Petyr van Abel or Riverbend.

Mona's gone (Tessa would've been great to keep around, wtf), so there goes Blackwood Farm's crossover with MW, unless they bring in Merrick Mayfair--who I ALSO worry won't be in IWTV.

The emotional impact of Little Chris is totally blown, cuz Rowan & Cip had zero time to actually develop a real relationship (they're not even married here, omfg); instead opting for the LAZIEST writing possible--ah! we touched hands, now we now know everything about e/o, we're so in love now even though we JUST met. Instead, there's just a bunch of meaningless sex (that airplane scene with Rowan & Dierdre--wtF).

And they're REALLY pushing for a Talamasca show.

Just like the two existing series, “Talamasca” will have a dedicated showrunner if it is ordered to series. Spalding has subtly worked to find ways “to let there be delicious fun overlaps [among the shows] without feeling like the aesthetics of the shows have to line up. They’re all their own jewel boxes.”

NGL I like 80% of what MW did with the Talamasca; the aesthetics work, yes, well done on that, Esta. 👍 But I've never been confident that the Talamasca on its own should be something y'all should focus on creating a show out of--especially not ESTA & her writers--when you're not even following (let alone topping) AR's source material in MW adequately.

I'd LOVE to see Pandora & the bees; and Gremt & Teskhamen & Hesketh; and Raymond Gallant & Marius; and Petyr van Abel & Suzanne & Charlotte Maryfair; and Stewart Townsend & Stella Mayfair; and David & Aaron & Merrick--but so far I don't TRUST y'all to not eff it up. Y'all NEED better writers outside of IWTV, AMC, omg. It's way too easy falling into the Hobbit/Rings of Power or even The Witcher trap.

[qqueenofhades]

One of my friends keeps trying to get me to watch Top Gun and I honestly just can’t, it makes be feel awful and the military propaganda and glorification there, especially as an american myself (the friend in question isn’t) it just is something I have an active desire to NOT watch even as a good friend who really loves the movie is trying to get me to.

It’s military propaganda. That’s flat out what it is. A different friend, her dad literally joined the military right after high school BECAUSE of the first movie. It sits so wrong with me. The movie makes the military have a great, clean reputation and be the shining beacon of American patriotism, the movie literally worked with the department of defence and thanked them in the credits, and it was a massive reputation boost to the military. You can look at statistics and see skyrocketing enlistment rates after the movie was released. That was the POINT of the movie, and I hate it.

It makes me feel really bad, though, because I’m a massive proponent of people being able to read/watch stuff and enjoy it even if it IS problematic and honestly, I’ve gotten frustrated at people refusing stuff because they don’t agree with parts of it. One of the big instances that comes to mind is a friend of mine who refused to watch the Hannibal TV show because it had a “problematic and highly inaccurate portrayal of the main character being supposedly autistic and it’s an insult to actual autistic people” and that’s barely even a part of the show. It’s implied by a few lines of dialogue but that’s it. Similarly, I’ve known people refuse to watch or read other stuff because it has unhealthy romantic relationships or toxic friendships. That goes for a lot of stuff- shows and books and movies like that are meant for entertainment and aren’t supposed to be the gold standard that you hold all other stuff up to. Something like IWTV is meant to be a horrible relationship but you’re not supposed to take it as something real and healthy. Anyway rant aside, you should be able to enjoy so called “problematic” media while still acknowledging that it’s problematic. When you start making your opinion about it into a big issue or telling other people they shouldn’t watch it because it’s wrong, that’s when everyone has a problem.

That being said, I now feel like a massive hypocrite for then refusing to watch Top Gun because I don’t agree with it and don’t like the content. Don’t get me wrong, I employ the “just don’t watch it” method to great effect with a lot of content but I have a much bigger problem here when it’s a really good friend of mine trying to get me to watch it and I don’t know how to justify it to them beyond “because I don’t want to and I don’t agree with it” because I don’t want to hurt them, either, even if it’s not something I should have to justify.

I mean, you're not being a hypocrite at all, really? You subscribe to the idea that people should watch what they want and that if you or anyone else doesn't want to see it, you have the right to refuse engagement with that content without making it everyone else's problem. This might be a little more delicate because obviously it's your friend and you don't want to hurt their feelings, but there's nothing wrong with politely explaining that you're uncomfortable with it for the reasons stated and this absolutely doesn't reflect on your feelings for them. In turn, it’s their responsibility to react maturely and be like "okay, I get it, let's find something else to watch together." But that's for them to control, and you can only do your part.

This is likewise something I've been dealing with myself, in terms of rewatching old media that for one reason or another is considered Problematic TM. Like, I'm currently rewatching Brooklyn 99, and that was not before I spent a while wondering whether I wanted to engage with it again at all; I put off watching the final season for a long time after 2020, and there is still something uncomfortable about making a wacky comedy aimed at liberals that is still, especially in the early seasons, just WILD copaganda. Like, insanely so. They did adjust and reflect in later seasons, which is good, but still. The NYPD is basically a domestic terrorist organisation in some ways, it has a budget larger than some countries' militaries, it inflicts real violence on a lot of NYC residents, etc etc... so do I, a person who obviously supports police reform and accountability, and systematic social justice, want to engage that in my free time?

After duly considering this, I am still rewatching old episodes of the show, I still find it largely funny, and I am able to recognise that this is a fictional sitcom filmed by actors in the Universal Studios backlot in California and thus is not actually contributing to the real-life NYPD's actions in hurting real people. I do need to have that critical distinction in mind, and to recognize the questions/issues that it raises, but because I am a grownup and capable of doing so, I can still engage with this media in a way that both acknowledges the social implications of the fictional setting and does not leap to immediately equivocating it with reality. Because, well. It's not.

I share this to help give you an ethical framework if you do decide that you should watch Top Gun to please your friend. Yes, it is straight up 80s Reaganite military propaganda, you are not comfortable with that or its real-world effects, and you absolutely do reserve the right, as noted above, to politely and personally reject engagement with it. But it's also not real, it is not directly perpetrating the injustices and brutalities of the American military on real-life people at this very instant, and you can watch it without having to feel that you've betrayed your own principles or you're now personally supporting war crimes or whatever the most insane maximalist Terminally Online take may now be. You do have to think about it critically as a piece if propaganda and what it wants to do and etc., but obviously you're already doing that. So yes. It's up to you whether you want to watch the film to please your friend, or to just politely be like "no thanks," and either way, it's entirely valid.

[murfeelee]

IWTV 2022 INSP - EP5: A Vile Hunger for Your Hammering Heart Pt2 

Claudia: “Daddy Lou...” Louis: *hugs* “Thank you.” *cries* Lestat: “The prodigal daughter.... Quick stop home to do laundry before you f**k off for good.” Claudia: “A quick stop to pick up Louis.” Louis: .... Lestat: ??? Lou. Claudia (mentally): [[Come with me, Louis!]] Louis: .... Lestat: “Louis?” Claudia (mentally): [[His love is a small box he keeps you in. Don't stay in it!]] Lestat: “LOUIS! A thousand nights of sulking, and at the first sight of her, you are just gonna up and leave me?!“ Claudia: “Please, come with me! Let's meet vampires WORTHY of your love!” Lestat: “AAH!” *attacks Claudia* Louis: “Get the f**k off her!” *attacks Lestat*

-- Interview with the Vampire (AMC 2022, S01E05)

MY THOUGHTS & CC CREDITS

MY THOUGHTS RANT ALERT (rabid AF & VERY lengthy venting about Lestat’s trash decision skills, and Loustat’s toxic sludge of a relationship jfc)

This episode, man.

If you know the IWTV book and the movie, you already know Lestat & Claudia end up literally at each other’s throats, and cross the point of no return as mortal enemies, basically.

But the film’s all wrapped up in Lestat being a sadistic cavalier sarcastic little pissant; and Claudia being a ruthless 10-year old immortal killing machine; and Louis being a masochistic indecisive shell stuck with Lestat through circumstance (not love, no homo!), and Claudia through responsibility (and pedophilic???? love).

The magic of the AMC version is that they’re working in 2022, not the 70s (book) or 90s (film), so they have the luxury to explore what it'd be like for an Alternate Universe Louis and Lestat to really BE together, and raise Claudia

--and how everything inevitably went dead wrong:

Lestat making Claudia was never the mistake. Lestat making LOUIS was.

Seeing the way AMC did everything was so dang good/awful. With Louis & Lestat, theirs was a too-brief whirlwind romance between monsters; a married couple blindly raising a kid together in the midst of carnage and trauma--because they’re vampires, sucking the life out of everyone and everything around them.

They won’t communicate, can’t relate to each other, and don’t really even know each other. Despite Lestat’s false 1st impression of Louis strutting around like a tough guy with that cane-sword, Louis was not a violent man, and Louis HATED being a vampire. That made being with a bloodthirsty hedonist like Lestat next to impossible, no matter how much they loved each other. Especially once Louis started eating animals instead of people, and his diet disgusted Lestat, just as Lestat’s diet disgusted Louis.

Unlike Louis, Claudia took to killing like a bat straight outta Hell (and nearly got them all busted by the COPS because of it). But Lestat & Claudia couldn’t STAND one another by the end. They really were father and daughter in all the worst ways possible.

Violent manipulative control freaks, they both loved Louis deeply, and both wanted him to choose one of them over the other, while doing everything they could to make sure that they couldn’t coexist peacefully in the same space.

IMO, this show’s all about Maker/Fledgling and parent/child bonds. Lestat & Louis love each other romantically, and Louis & Claudia love each other in the familial way. So there are deep emotional bonds. But Lestat made Louis & Claudia vampires, so even though they have a permanent magical bond as Maker and Fledgling, Lestat can't read their minds. But as “sibling” vampires, Claudia and her Daddy Lou CAN speak mentally to each other. So they can understand & know & relate to each other better and on a way deeper level than Lestat ever could with either one of them, even though he made them. 

And I agree with the fandom that yeah, Louis 100% liked it that way. When people have kids to “save” the marriage, the baby is a band-aid as much as it is a comfort object, a new emotional bond between parent and child to give them the love they felt they were missing from their spouse. In EP4 Louis told Lestat “’Happy?’ We were never happy!“ He was going to LEAVE Lestat in EP3, before stumbling across Claudia and going back to him. Louis just wanted someone he could TALK to--a new Paul, a new Miss Lily, a new Grace. (Ultimately: DANIEL MALLOY interviewing him--Louis needs SO MUCH therapy jfc.) Lestat made Louis selfishly, for himself (and did a pisspoor job learning about Louis beforehand or educating him in vampirism). And Louis selfishly wanted someone for himself, too--particularly once Lestat made it clear he wasn’t gonna be monogamous & started cheating. Claudia wasn’t made out of love, she was made out of selfishness, spite & panic.

All this made the AWFUL communication between Lestat, Louis & Claudia  doomed from the start, as Lestat was immediately left out of his own family--again (his worst nightmare)--all while not realizing/accepting that Louis & Claudia’s father/daughter bond wasn't a threat to the romantic bond he had with Louis.

All of Lestat’s efforts to get closer to Louis (than Claudia) became WAY too heavy-handed--as if stalking & terrorizing Louis in EP1 into being with him wasn’t bad enough. >_> And that’s on top of Lestat’s self-destructive contradictory behavior constantly cheating on Louis to try and rile his jealousy. Which was FUTILE, since all Lestat’s cheating did was push Louis deeper into depression and further away from him--straight to Claudia; the one bond Louis felt he had left!

And then Episode 5 happened, and Lestat REALLY effed up.

Like, we know Lestat’s whipped, Louis’ IT for him, but obviously there was a part of him that really did hate Louis--enough for him to beat him like that. But if it was that bad, why not just LEAVE???? Lestat had all the power & resources--let Claudia & Louis go, and find yourself someone you’re more compatible with, ffs! The swamp/dump is calling, sir! 🤡 

But because Loustat are endgame in the books, I cannot WAIT to see how AMC handles Lestat’s redemption arc, both as the (anti-)hero of the Vampire Chronicles, and how both Lestat AND Louis figure out how to grow the eff up and MATURE enough to be worthy of EACH OTHER by the end of the story.

IMO, Loustat are soulmates who met at the wrong time. Not exactly star-crossed lovers, but they definitely went in too deep way too soon. In the books, Lestat hadn’t gone through his growing pains when he met Louis--he’d only been a vampire for like a decade, and careened from one tragedy to the next, not knowing ANYTHING about vampirism to help teach Louis or Claudia anything either. While here on the show, it’s Louis who suffers loss after loss after loss, and is given ZERO time or opportunity to process any of his trauma before he’s made a vampire, married, and a parent in quick succession. (And the books go even further, with everything that happens to him in Merrick and the Prince Lestat trilogy.)

And here, Lestat’s a ~200 year old EXPERT in vampirism, who is DELIBERATELY withholding information and keeping secrets from them, because AMC’s Lestat ALREADY KNOWS about Armand and AKASHA and Marius, but like a MORON he doesn’t TALK TO LOUIS about it (because Marius told Lestat NOT to). So they (especially Claudia) KNOW Lestat’s LYING, and think he’s keeping them with him seemingly as their hateful & controlling JAILER/SLAVE MASTER, rather than their loving & paranoid protector. CLOWN BEHAVIOR, Lestat! 🤡

And that’s not even saying anything yet about the LOADED significance of Loustat’s interracial homosexual relationship, with Lestat’s “non-discriminating” pansexualism and stubborn “color-blindness” and racism doesn’t exist in Europe attitude like WTF DRUGS ARE YOU EVEN ON SIR as if the FRENCH didn’t colonize the West Indies and Africa and NEW ORLEANS as some of THE most racist Europeans ever GTFOH. And Louis’ Catholic Guilt and internalized-homophobia and struggles being black during Jim Crow and whatever Frenchophile-blinders he had on to excuse Lestat as a “safe” white man he could be with, when the man’s a whole vampire LITERALLY hunting you, good GOD have mercy on this baby lamb against the WOLF KILLER Lestat. And Claudia calling Lestat on his crap EVERY TIME, knowing he was keeping secrets and constantly interrogating him, following him and spying on him as he cheated on Louis, calling him “Massa,” I CANNOT. 👑

I love this show, AMC’s a genius. This one episode encapsulates SO many different issues and aspects of these characters, it’s wild. IMO, some of the fandom needs to calm down about EP5 and Lestat’s “character assassination.” YES, Lestat’s the villain on the show. He’s the villain in the movie, too, lest we forget! That's why Lestat spends the next like DOZEN books in the Vampire Chronicles trying to clear his name, getting the reader to see things from HIS perspective, after Louis ROASTED him for filth and made Lestat look so dang bad in THE interview that started it all.

I love bashing on Lestat, because that’s the whole POINT of IWTV--it’s Louis still mad as all hell at his ex 100 years later, venting to Daniel about his TRAUMA and hurt. You’re SUPPOSED to be mad at Lestat, and be on Louis’ side as he goes off on him in the interview, feeling just as hurt and betrayed as he did, because you too LIKE--love--Lestat, and were just as seduced and blindsided as Louis was.

Other than IWTV and Merrick, the Vampire Chronicles are NOT Louis’ story, they’re Lestat’s, a narcissistic egomaniacal lovable a-hole, and the books do the heavy lifting of letting you slowly get to know him, as he admits to his flaws and mistakes and finally REDEEMS himself--in both the reader’s eyes--AND LOUIS’.

IMO, AMC is really hammering it home how THE BOOKS are Lestat’s long AF apology letter to Louis, for letting him down.

Chile, lemme calm myself down and get back to playing the Sims.

____________________________________________

CC CREDITS (WIPs)

- Louis sweater by EA

- Claudia overalls by Momo, jacket ACC by M1ssduo, shirt by EA

- Lestat shirt & pants in gamma by me (they’re all kinds of effed up, trust me)

- Poses X X (there were an effton more; I IDER some of them, sorry)

- A bunch of poses by @danjaley​ as usual LOL X X X

- Vampire attack poses by Sea (Direct DL)

- One falling pose was definitely by ahiruchanet, but I can’t find a post or link yet

[0junemeatcleaver0]

Honestly has to get this out of my system because I'm mad (an advanced apology for my long rant, also thanks to the previous anon, you encourage me to do this finally). For a start, it's only been a few months that I discover the book through the series. Never like stuff about supernatural being like werewolves, vampires but I saw an edit of the series and it gives me a huge Achilles and Patroclus vibes so I give it a chance (still doesn't like about the vampires stuff because let's be honest, it would make it a far better series if they doesn't include it). And I usually much prefer to read so I want to see how the source material goes seeing how different the series and movie are, and...... I was never the same. That book is incredible and breathtaking, I fell in love with Louis so much because finally finallyyyyy I saw myself in a character. And then came the question "What's up with that series?" because let's be honest once again, with all the questionable thing it contains, the first two books (IWTV/TVL) are literally perfect. And I would pretty much support some changes like plantation owner, incest etc if they prefer to do so and badum it will still be a faithful adaptation that both book fans and new fans would probably love. Why not done that? And I think the book is a classic and modern in my honest opinion like come on, two guys raising a child for 60 years? What's more gayer than that? Those with trouble understanding how gay it is can rot away. And talking about that (please bear with me, I swear I'll be done soon), I don't like how the show focus so much on sex when the book's main attraction is more about the feelings they have, and neither like the nudity on screen so randomly (this is not meant to attack anyone, it's my personal opinion but an advanced apology if my words are lacking). And again, in my deepest opinion, the movie was so much more gay than the series atleast for me, and again for those who refused to acknowledge the homoeroticism in it can rot away, and yes I'm going to put the movie on the pedestal because it's the most faithful adaptation so far and that in the 90s? It totally deserve that recognition it deserves and I totally despise anyone blindly hating on it. I love love Lestat, Louis and Claudia in there, and this is probably an unpopular opinion but I prefer Brad Louis over Jacob Louis (just in case, not an attack to the actor, he's amazing with what he's given) and that's a great loss because no matter how I look, the way they let Jacob portrayed Louis is no longer the Louis I love from the book. Brad Louis is also lacking, but I could see Book Louis from his portrayal so that's that. I'm now forever going to keep the book as my no 1 and I'm absolutely going to hate anyone trashing on the books in favour of the show, you can dislike it, but don't go talking about comparing and decided the book is evil because it deals thing differently as compared to many books, know the context or I don't know *pulling their card* just don't read it because you have a certain liking to things and that's totally fine. And in my eyes, the show..... it's just a show which pulled some trope from different series instead of it's own source material (shocking right?) and trying to put itself as the most faithful ever when it can't even get the aesthetic right (sorry for being not sorry). And once again my hate to those who tell book fans they can't ever get the faithful adaptation they wanted so they must accept the show for that because duh, we sure can if handled properly by people who 'really care' and the book fans totally deserve that because as I said above, change a few stuff about it and it'll be a faithful and most greatest series ever about vampires.

While I disagree about being able to change things like the plantation and/or incest and have it still be faithful (it's gothic literature--you take the uncomfy stuff out, you change the genre, you change the whole vibe, you change the narrative), I do fundamentally agree with everything else you said, anon.

[bayoubodycount]

For the IWTV asks: 🦇 🤡 ⚰️

Hi! Thanks for the questions!

Would I like the ability to read people's mind?

Yes, if I could make it only one person-my husband. My reason is because I'm extremely afflicted with ADHD and having even just myself in my brain is too overwhelming sometimes🤣

Favorite headcanon of your favorite character:

Hopefully I'm not spoiling here but- I'm insanely curious with regards to the hints from Sam combined with Lestat mentioning Akasha when he confesses  to Louis in the tower(2x8) he'd been reflecting on and examining his behavior/abuse during his dumpster era. It possibly lends to him having drank from Akasha (the very embodiment of poison and toxicity itself) and contributing(IN PART) to the drop, the DV, and the abuse. It honestly makes sense to me that her blood would have that kind of influence and hold on him..on anyone who drinks from her. 

They've(Sam and RJ) have mentioned sewing seeds in this show. Having some of Lestat's behavior/abuse linked to Akasha would indeed be a good way to depict how toxic she is. However, LET ME BE CLEAR..I do NOT want it used as the sole excuse for his behavior/abuse.

While I am certain book Lestat would be horrified at the show's DV, book fans know Lestat wouldn't do this. BUT given the very real abuse we should be seeing in season 3 that Lestat suffered by the hands of his father and brothers(and in her own way Gabrielle, by way of lack of intervention) it is very logical and realistic to assume Lestat's less desirable characteristics and tendencies do stem from his childhood traumas (plus a few post vampire-turning ones)and I would NOT want them simply excused by blaming Akasha, as it would leave no room for personal work and growth and provide zero character arc which is necessary for great storytelling. Okay, sorry for that rant, I'm done I swear🤣

How would you feel about having to sleep in a coffin? 

Just a coffin? Absolutely fine. But a coffin buried six feet underground? I'd go batshit insane from claustrophobia. Good thing for me, vampires hide their coffins in other places 🤣

[murfpersonalblog]

I'm glad IWTV won the poll, but I'm wondering why The Untamed was even listed, and not the MDZS dongua instead? 🤔

Homophobic Chinese censorship is a true blight upon tv, because neither The Untamed nor the dongua is what I'd call an "unburying." Which is ironic AF, considering all the zombies running around. You gotta play effing Inquiry just to tease out the sublest hints of gay--the most explicit scene was LXC & JGY's fingers touching in Cloud Recesses! 🤦‍♀️ They didn't even let WWX's paperman kiss LWJ! :(

The dongua at least TRIED, and slipped in a little lip-touch.

Like YES, I squeed every time LWJ smiled at WWX, but come onnn....

And the dongua doesn't do much more than that either, TBH.

But at least it did THIS, thank god. #redweddingwangxianFTW

But even the dongua was way too buddy-comedy, considering how feral the novel is, but IMO they got closer to the essence of Wangxian than the live action did. I've ranted before about how much I HATE what The Untamed did with the gay rabbits motif, and omg I LOATHE the ending--(it gave me Queer as Folk season 5 war flashbacks)--get that ambiguous ending garbage out of my face. 😡

Like, I get it, CQL did enough to get away with it, but I wouldn't put them in the running for "unburying" the gayness of Wangxian. The live action is gorgeous and I appreciate the effort I've watched the whole thing like a billion times I love CQL don't get me wrong, but at best I'd only give the live action a 8/10. The dongua I'd give a 9/10.

For me, CQL/The Untamed is to the Lestat musical what MDZS (the dongua) is to Interview with the Vampire (1994). We need a Wangxian adaptation that can be on par with AMC's IWTV 2022--where's that incense burner at!? 😈

Category: Live action TV that unburied the gays

The Untamed - live action tv show

Adapted from Mo Dao Zu Shi / Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation (Web Novel)

Character subtlety and complexity is on point. Absolutely beautiful movieing, costumes, and music. Even though the explicitly queer parts in the novels had to be changed, the tension, emotion, and deep love in the main duo's relationship is so well done and you can interpret it in many different ways! This show’s got siblings showing their love through soup and sacrifice, soulmates giving each other unconditional support and chickens, and all kinds of families involved in personal and political scheming.

Interview with the Vampire (2022 TV)

Adapted from The Vampire Chronicals (novel series)

Before she passed away, Anne Rice was heavily involved in the production of the TV show. After 5 decades, the older and wiser Rice gets her chance to retcon her first novel. The TV series is a good spiritual adaption, going for the essence rather than the literal, a fanfic retelling. The retcon is cleverly lampshaded in the show, by referencing the OG novel as Louis's breakup rant. The character feels much more rounded. Louis, in particular, finally has the tormented beauty the novel was trying to portray, instead of the charisma of a wet rag.

[licncourt]

When you have the time, please write your opinions on episode 6! I really love to read your thoughts

Yikes, okay. I'm just going to do a bulleted list of likes and dislikes because there was a lot going on here. Thank you so much for caring about my ranting!!

Thank you also to @zisurru and vivienne1996 for talking to me about this episode for like three hours straight after it aired and helping me consolidate all these thoughts with their insight

Things I liked

Claudia! I always enjoy her being a stone cold bitch. She's so ruthless and so intelligent that you almost forget how vulnerable she is. Bailey Bass knocked it out of the park and I was cheering her on from start to finish this ep.

Despite how some fans seem to be interpreting it, I was glad Lestat wasn't really framed as being justified in his actions. I do think the severity of his attack was downplayed (more on that later), but it wasn't fully excused like I was afraid it would be

Louis swimming the Mississippi to kick Lestat's ass

Lestat's chess tantrum. That felt like the level of shittiness I would expect from him based on the book

Things I would've liked in another context

Claudia and Lestat's chess rivalry

The mentions of Nicki and Magnus (even if it feels too early imo). Any TVL content is fun in theory

The family conversation on the bench

The Loustat sex scene (I can't believe we only got one sex scene in a non-icky scenario)

Coffin cuddles

Sam Reid singing

The fight -> sex pipeline

Lestat and the dog

Things I hated

BATTERED WIFE LOUIS. He was written as so strangely and ooc in this episode and it made me sick tbh. Yeah, he's mad for a while and rejects Lestat's attempts to apologize, but he DOES let Lestat back into his life and tolerates a ridiculous amount of awful bullshit. Lestat seems worse than ever, begging to get back in the family and then immediately treating Claudia poorly, emotionally abusing Louis, and continuing his affair. Louis quietly puts up with all of it, even making constant excuses for the behavior and keeping himself sexually available. It's almost as awful a character assassination as Lestat just got in ep 5. Book Louis never felt like a sure thing for Lestat. He was always pushing back and using his strengths and advantages to go toe-to-toe with Lestat. He was never subservient or brought to heel like some terrified but overly-loyal dog. AMC Louis allowing Claudia to be abused like she is in the show is even more incomprehensible to me.

The racial aspect of this whole situation gets its own bullet point because ICK. At least Claudia called it out.

Claudia taking the caregiver role. Something that defines Louis' character in IWTV is how intensely he clings to the role of father to give his life purpose, even to the point of infantilizing Claudia until he drives her even more mad. Just like I can't imagine book Louis tolerating Lestat's treatment of his and Claudia, I can't imagine him being so okay with losing the dynamic of the only identity that keeps him going.

Lestat's priorities! Just like ep 5, another core tenet of Lestat's characterization has been done away with here. The motivating desire behind Lestat's controlling behavior and cruel self-preservation is his desperate love for Louis and Claudia and his fear of losing them. Louis and Claudia making him an important part of an established family unit was all Lestat wanted in the book, but AMC Lestat has one foot out the door all of ep 6 even after how hard he tried to get them back and how he reacted to their attempt to leave. The Antoinette affair is especially baffling because Lestat is never mentioned to have taken any lovers in IWTV until the final months of the family, a desperate attempt to get Louis' attention and a potential rebound as he felt his family slipping away. If anything, Lestat is TOO committed in IWTV, definitely not a reluctant and philandering husband or unwilling father.

Lestat's hatred of Claudia!! The lynchpin of their tragedy is that Lestat DOES love Claudia. That's his daughter, his pride and joy, his protégé, his baby girl. He loves her as much as Louis does but his generational trauma and the circumstances of her creation/existence drive the wedge further and further between them until something breaks. When Claudia tricks him into aiding in his own murder by pretending to want to fix their relationship, Lestat doesn't even hesitate to trust her. Even after she tries to kill him, book Lestat says he never regretted her, that having the chance to be her father and to love her was worth it. I don't see even a shred of that in AMC Lestat. Getting rid of that love between Lestat and Claudia takes so much away from the upcoming tragedy.

The train scene. Again, a very important aspect of Lestat that makes him redeemable later is his total unwillingness to ever threaten Claudia with harm. The fact that he not only threatened to kill her but also mocked her rape was horrid and totally bizarre. I don't know how they could ever even begin to redeem him at this point.

The oversimplification of Claudia's arc and morality. Making Lestat so black and white evil like they have in the past two episodes takes so much away from her complexity and from the depth of the story for the audience. What makes the climax of this part of the book (coming in ep 7) so compelling is that you aren't sure if Claudia was right, if Lestat deserves it, what fairness even is. In this case, she's just completely justified and killing the man who threatened her life and almost killed her father and who continues to abuse them. Again, the tragedy of IWTV comes from the pseudo-nuclear family the three of them create and the way it breaks down in the most extreme of ways, the trauma of the father and of the eldest/only daughter destroying each other while the mother is torn to pieces by a love for them both. It's a domestic horror rooted in love gone wrong.

**Bonus** The fan insistence that book Lestat was never faced with the prospect of Louis leaving and if he had been, the reaction would've been the same as in the show. That's patently untrue and it happened twice actually. The first time, his reaction was to make another attempt at winning Louis over to accepting vampirism, and when that failed, to go for the babytrap. The second time, he went on an angry spiel about how he had Secret Vampire Knowledge and so Louis and Claudia had to stay with him.

[monstersinthecosmos]

Omg thanks for telling it like it is haha! Besides awareness of the pitfalls you mentioned about non-linear plots, etc, I hope the tv show includes plenty of humor. I think vc can take itself too seriously, especially in more recent books (lol AR), and that can make a tv show really cheesy or cringey. Personally I think the IWTV movie veered dangerously close to this, but saved itself through its morbid humor

That is a really interesting point, re: humor! I think the books have plenty of humor cause Lestat is a jackass lol and even when he’s being completely reprehensible he’s always sort of charming and funny. BUT LIKE YEAH THERE’S DEFINITELY A POINT AT WHICH IT’LL BE WAY TOO CHEESY and it’s like. Tricky. I thought the movie was safely removed from any type of VAMPIRE CAMP cause like, goddamn vampire camp is a real thing and it’s real painful a lot. I thought the movie did a great job at being like a ~serious drama~. 

The thing about IWTV that I love so much and that totally saves the movie for me despite the random unnecessary changes from source material was that the TONE REALLY NAILED IT? Like I thought the movie super captured the vibe of the book and VC in general.  And like A+ TO TOM CRUISE FOR DOING HIS HOMEWORK cause straight IWTV source material would’ve made Lestat such a prick but he actually read the other books and got to know Lestat and bring his sense of humor to the role and shit. AND WITHOUT THAT it could’ve been a really different movie. And like. Sad movies are great for like, indie theatres and art students and aren’t great for the mainstream. People don’t want to watch ten hours of depressed vampires, that shit’s boring and sad lmfao. I MEAN, I DO. YOU DO. VC FANDOM WANTS IT. But we can’t expect these networks to cater to like a niche vampire audience, it isn’t realistic and doesn’t really work on TV. 

SIX FEET UNDER COMES TO MIND TOO? Cause that’s a show that was about really dark material and had the potential to be SUPER DEPRESSING (and often was) but the HUMOR made it so fucking good and quirky and fun. I WOULD ASK ALAN BALL TO GET INVOLVED, ALSO BECAUSE BANSHEE IS SO FUCKIN CLUTCH, BUT HE ALREADY DID TRUE BLOOD LOL GODDAMNIT. And meanwhile like, at the other end of the spectrum, True Blood was a straight up comedy. 

Anyway I almost made this post like 3x as long cause I kept almost going on like WEIRD TV/HORROR/COMEDY/VAMPIRE/ADVENTURE/GENRE DISCUSSION rants cause I’m like EXCITED but hey. Let’s not. Some other time. =P