#than i do of him as a Force in the narrative

[bucksboobs]

I wish BoB's could take a second and look at episodes objectively, like without the Tommy of it all. Because, watching Confessions as a fan of all the characters, was just bad. It sucked. Eddie didn't get any character growth, Maddie was doing some weird hidden pregnancy thing for some reason, they had a fucking Glee speech, Maddie made a homophobic "joke", I could go on. Like, take the shipping goggles off for a second and realize you (generally speaking), in fact, did not get what you wanted.

I’m so mad their pregnancy was unplanned again. It makes way more narrative sense for them to come to the conclusion they want more kids together without having the situation essentially forced on them.

And yeah the Eddie thing started out strong! He acknowledged his mistakes to Father Brian!!! He said what happened! And then Fr Brian is like “you should do something frivolous.” And that’s it? No follow up? Is he going to actually work on acknowledging to Chris what happened? Has he talked about The Incident with Chris at all the past three months? Is he really going to settle for going to El Paso and being a witness to his son’s life? Obviously I think the answer is supposed to be “wait and see” but there’s been so little movement on him actually acknowledging the root cause of his actions, which is the grief he has for Shannon. Do you know how easy it would be for them to have him talk to the Real Shannon (i.e. her grave)? They’ve already shown that location before! They were at the graveyard this season! Talking to Shannon’s grave about missing out on Chris’s childhood would be so much more impactful than Brad being the reason that makes Eddie decides to leave.

And the Glee speech wouldn’t be so bad if it was actually leading somewhere you know? They take pains to explain why Tommy had a comphet relationship with Abby using Glee as a metaphor for social progress and that would have been great if it lead to anything positive for Tommy like an “i love you” for instance but because it doesn’t actually let Tommy have something nice despite his past mistakes born of fear, it instead comes off as the hand of the writers reaching down to jerk off Ryan Murphy, which isn’t a good look when the show is a Ryan Murphy Production.

And everyone has said it but the fact “how many men did she turn gay?” Was the perfect set up for Buck to say he’s bisexual is just so indicative of this season’s inability to follow through on anything. You’re telling me Buck wouldn’t say “well I’m bi actually” instead of that round about “I kissed a boy” thing? Hell he could have said both things and it would have flowed better. “Well first of all I’m bi and she was gone long before I ever kissed a boy.” *cue Josh*

[robbyykeene]

also shannon keene........

Not sure what exactly you were referring to with this anon but I’ll take this as an opportunity to go on a rant about Shannon and her place in this story because man, I have so many feelings about her. They introduce us to her as a deeply flawed mother, an addict who abandons her son for long periods of time without any means to care for himself, who parades strings of sleazy men through the house where her child sleeps, who lets her son drop out of school and turn to a life a crime just to pay the bills. And I’m not absolving her of her responsibility for these things. But when she was introduced in this show, to me more than anything else this all felt like a condemnation of Johnny’s absence. Like, look at what happened to Shannon. Look at how Robby was forced to grow up. How different things could have been if Johnny had been there, for either of them, at all.

But then season 5 comes along and we have Shannon apologize to Johnny. He says he’s sorry for not being there and Shannon brushes him off, says she’s sorry too, they were both young and dumb and didn’t know any better. Except Johnny was 35 years old when Robby was born, and Shannon was what…19? 20? 23 at the very oldest. And she didn’t get to be young and dumb. She didn’t have the choice to walk away, to just not be there at all.

And I think all the time about that line Robby says to Tory, how his mom used to be a dancer. Like, when do we think Shannon stopped dancing? When she met Johnny? When she got pregnant? When she gave birth? When Robby was a kid? Was she an addict before Johnny came into her life, or did that only come after? Did Johnny know from the outset what kind of person he was abandoning his son with, or was it something he discovered over the years and just did nothing about? When did she start engaging in survival sex—because that’s what that was—to pay the bills?

And even more than that—what was their relationship like to begin with? Was it a one night stand? A casual on and off hookup? A serious relationship? How did they meet? When she found out she was pregnant, what was Johnny’s reaction? What was hers? Did she want an abortion, and Johnny convinced her not to? Did he want an abortion, and Shannon refused? Was it too late for that by the time she found out? Did Johnny promise to be there, to be involved? Did Shannon think she was giving birth to a kid who would have two loving parents, or did she already know he was doomed from the minute she saw the positive test? How did she feel about all of it?

And ultimately none of these questions will be answered or even matter, because it’s not her story it’s Johnny’s. And I guess that was always the point. She was an object to him then, an object to him now, and nothing but an object to the narrative. But still. I think about her.

[amaryllis-sagitta]

Hi again, going through the different endings of DAV, I was pretty surprised to hear Solas being all like "I am a god!!" when Rook beats him in a fight. I know he has pride issues but that felt so OOC to me?? I was wondering if you had an opinion on it?

Hi, thanks for asking again!

There are 3 tiny (or not so tiny?) moments that I think push the envelope on Solas's characterization in a way that allows us to portray him as more genuinely sinister than the main line established in Trespasser, post-Trespasser media and most of DATV, which is the "Pathetic, stubborn man ridden with massive unprocessed guilt and shame, who can't make a choice without some catastrophic collateral for the life of him, and the unforeseen consequences of his choices repeatedly push him to double-cross people and have them do his dirty work".

One moment that had me thinking is the third memory of the rebellion - I mentioned earlier how Solas's pose and facial expressions make him unduly smug when Felassan calls out that they were supposed to do better than send out an army of spirits, appealing to their nature in seemingly good faith, when they were really a distraction doomed to fail. It shocked me because it seems to strike at one of Solas's core values. It's supposed to hurt more in relation to spirits because we know how much Solas despises wasting, destroying or twisting spirit purpose. And yet, in his confrontation with Felassan, he seemed content, smug even, about achieving victory against Elgar'nan and didn't show a trace of regret.

Another moment is the jab in the Fade that "at least you have Varric to talk to", again with a smug sense of satisfaction. Learning about this line took me by surprise because for all the disingenuity Solas is capable of, I never had him for someone who takes delight in such petty cruelty, especially when the matter is also personal to him to a degree. Varric's death should have hurt him by virtue of their mutual respect gained in DAI, so has the game underdelivered in representing this? Or are we really pushing a narrative that he never really changed his mind on non-elves, or chose not to acknowledge them as people, so Varric was just a disposable fool?

The third specific moment that shows Solas in a worse light is the moment you mentioned in the ask. Though, watching this scene, I feel we need to cite the full sentence:

Rook: [...] I am not alone, but you will be. The Veil needs to be tied to the life force of an elvhen god. And now it is, Dread Wolf. Solas: You sneer at me as though you understand. You are mortal! Compared to you, to your infinitesimal existence, I AM A GOD!"

This is a conditional state of an ending, when you decide to fight him and at least the companions in your party have reached the Hero status, which means they survive Solas's counterattacks, so in the end Rook doesn't stand against him alone, and does not end up in the Fade prison with Solas. This is where Solas is at his most desperate, I think, because when Rook remains alone in the Fight ending, it's a pyrrhic victory. Solas doesn't lash out then, because he isn't done with Rook. The context of "I am a god" is that Rook will soon perish while The Dread Wolf will prevail for centuries still, and no mortals can stop him in a way that matters.

But could it also be a trigger for his greatest fear: that there's a realistic chance he can very nastily die alone with his regrets and self-loathing? Because he does not say he is immortal - he never bound a dragon, so he can't take advantage of the Evanuris perk. Neither does he accept a definition of godhood. It's a matter of scale and comparison; in this final moment, he's looking for a way to belittle Rook and their team.

In fact, the "I am a god" in this context represents the extreme of the views he's held about mortals before - arguably, before joining Inquisition. Though I think that even then, he had trouble humanizing races other than elvhen. If his mind has really swayed throughout DAI, it feels barely half a step towards acknowledging that mortal elves, especially the Dalish, might have a point in their approach to history. Then, in Tevinter Nights, he says to Charter that the elves who survive the un-Veiling might find the "new" world better. Not really a win.

I believe a proper background for this is found in two conversations. First, when Rook keeps poking at Solas's plan to tear down the Veil and he stops eluding the question, Rook says "Spoken like a god". Solas's reply in this moment frankly sounds... too deflective. Like it's coming from someone who genuinely needs someone to constantly whisper "Remember you are but a mortal, Caesar" in his ear.

The second moment is when, after having the loud argument with Elgar'nan to get Rook out of a Fade pocket of despair, Solas admits Elgar'nan is who he feared becoming - callous, tyrannical and contemptuous. I guess Solas's worst moments are supposed to show how close he really could get, because the "I am a god" most definitely defines an ego trip that comes from a place of great insecurity.

If I were a hater looking for a hook to make an uncharitable argument that "He was amoral all along and his gentler side was a mask that just waited to slip", I'd start there.

[kelparty]

Madoka Magica x Arcane parallels

I keep saying it, but I'll say it again: JAYCE/ HOMURA PARALLELS IN ARCANE SEASON 2? MORE LIKELY THAN YOU'D THINK!

I love Madoka Magica, I love Arcane, and I can't stop drawing connections in my mind about how Jayce and Homura, despite being very different people in very different settings, go through a very similar situation. So, here are all the ways that Homura and Jayce parallel each other, and where the biggest difference lies!

1- Both Homura and Jayce spent a great deal of time and effort trying to save someone dear to them, defying the laws of nature without thinking twice (and ruining their own lives in the process). Homura traps herself in a time loop for Madoka, defying time and fate, and Jayce turns to the arcane for help to revive Viktor, against the law of nature. They put aside everything else for those two, chasing an end goal that is doomed from the start.

2- Both do this with single-minded focus and without thinking about possible consequences, which ends up leading to more pain for the very people they're trying to save in the long run. Each one of Homura's attempts to save Madoka tied more and more karmic strings around her, ultimately sealing her fate. In hastily using the hexcore to save Viktor, Jayce ends up fusing him to it, which permanently changes him, physically and mentally, in ways he would never have agreed to before.

3- Both Homura and Jayce have to face their loved ones leaving them behind and ascending to Godhood, against all of their attempts to save them and make everything go back to how it used to be. And although both Viktor and Madoka had noble goals in mind and were doing what they thought would be best for everyone, Viktor is misguided in his ideal of evolution, while Madoka is actually vindicated by the narrative. Also, Viktor's change comes less of his own will, while hers is entirely her own. Also 2, both have that ethereal space imagery tied to their God forms. Funny.

The conclusion reached by Homura and Jayce differs. Since Madoka was a benevolent force, Homura's defiance of her will is a selfish act, and she becomes a villain by the end of Rebellion. She decides she doesn't care what it takes, as long as she can still have Madoka, with no regard for her own feelings. But Viktor's actions were wrong, so the moral thing to do was stop him, and Jayce is in the right at the end of their story. He finally accepts his own mistakes and is able to help Viktor, and chooses to face the consequences of their actions alongside him.

Homura can't accept this ending after chasing after a goal for so long, while Jayce finally understands what he had to do, and embraces it. They parallel each other in their stories, but arrive at different conclusions; That is why Homura is a villain, while Jayce found redemption. Thanks for listening to my insane raving, I had a blast writing this.

[eponymous-rose]

Some (many) thoughts on Arcane s2 while it's still fresh in my mind:

(tw: discussion of fictional depictions of suicide)

I'm gonna do some nitpicking here, but only because I really did like it overall - I think for me s1 was a solid 10/10 and this season was an 8.5/10, so I'm certainly looking forward to rewatching it! The animation was a big step up from s1's incredible work, the music was great, the performances were fantastic. I do think the overall writing/story fell down a bit, though.

It's weird, because my go-to when character arcs feel rushed is to want more episodes, but I don't think that necessarily would have solved my issues with this season.

Cait turned on Ambessa on a dime - we love to see it, but I think we maybe needed a few more overt hints of her discomfort with her position, maybe a sense of wrongness in their adoptive relationship and some parallels with Jinx & Silco given what Vi says early on ("why are you the one acting like her?"). Ambessa believes her daughter to be lost, and Cait has lost a mother - they were certainly playing on that substitution, but the eventual turn, while fun, felt a bit quick and unearned. I saw someone joke about the word "Cupcake" flipping Cait back like a sleeper agent, but that's kinda how abrupt things felt.

I think Mel's plot largely hung together okay, although it was pretty disconnected from everyone except Ambessa - would've loved to have seen some acknowledgement that Cait was filling her shoes as Daughter for a while there.

Isha was sweet and I liked the parallels with the Powder-Vi relationship (LOVED Jinx running with the pink chalk and Isha with the blue), but I think the sacrifice metaphor got a little muddled. The parallels with Powder charging in and killing everyone around her, versus Isha charging in and saving everyone but herself felt a little forced and I struggled to see how they served the greater narrative. The whole point of Powder's failure was a messy combination of bad luck, overcompensating for what she perceived as a lack of confidence in her, etc. Isha had Jinx's confidence on her side, I guess, and now of course we have the foreshadowing of Jinx dying to save someone else, which she's been trying to do since Act II.

Suicide was a pretty heavy concept throughout the first season. We had the parallels of Jayce and Viktor, we had the little-remarked-upon moment where Viktor hesitates before cutting the wire on Jinx's bomb. I actually think this season did pretty well with those two (although I'll talk about a couple things that irked me below), but the concept that we can't escape the things that we've done and we instead have to find salvation in those around us felt kind of contrary to Jinx's finally finding a way to die for her sister. I don't know that Jinx's story was necessarily supposed to feel satisfying or complete, but without another season there's not much to dig through there.

And that brings up the main reason I don't think more episodes would have resolved my quibbles with this season: it was pretty prone to overexplaining. To me, one of the most exceptional things about that first season was how little it explained. You had these gorgeous, evocative flashes of Vander trying to kill Silco, Silco stabbing him and fleeing into the night, and that's all we needed! That's it! We didn't need to know the specifics, we didn't need more backstory than that - the whole point of the season was that these kids are trying to make their own stories, and these guys have set the stage and are in the process of bowing out. Much as I loved the glimpses this season into the past generation's adventures, it felt like it was pinning something down that was more effectively left to the imagination.

There were also some weird fumbles with discussions of disability, especially in that last episode. I loved so much of what season one did with it - the older generation of Zaunites almost all had some form of disability due to the way they'd been systematically poisoned and their constant exposure to danger, and that was a really in-your-face way to challenge the early "why can't we all get along" stuff. And so much of Viktor's and Jayce's arcs are tied in with the sense of time running out and how Heimerdinger's long-term goals are incompatible with helping the people suffering right now. But instead we get this weird "you didn't like your imperfections so you tried to eliminate all imperfections", which doesn't quite ring true.

We just fundamentally didn't get to a resolution that I think was heavily implied, especially in Act II. "No one in power is innocent" is a great, raw line, but we didn't really see it play out. Instead, we have everyone stopping from othering each other in order to band together against an even bigger Other. As a side note, I don't think that Sevika's ending is meant to be a positive thing - we see from the skeptical looks of others that she's got a long road ahead. The revolution we saw coming just sort of fizzled out, and I think it's still on the horizon, which makes things feel incomplete.

There were also a lot of notes that repeated instead of echoing or harmonizing. We had variations on the theme of Vander dying three different times. We had Vi being unable to kill her sister several times. The repetition felt a bit like it was filling time instead of moving things forward the way s1's plot kept pushing.

This season is also the first time I felt the hand of League of Legends Canon shoving the plot into place. We knew Vi was heading for that enforcer uniform, but after the initial conflict it sometimes felt more like we just unlocked a new skin for the character. The Vander-as-Warwick stuff was kind of silly and out of left field, although it was executed pretty well and certainly pulled at the ol' heartstrings. Ekko getting his time abilities was fun and impacted the final fight, but I feel like we were missing something there as well that I'm having a harder time putting my finger on. Some of Viktor's lines felt designed to make the League players in the audience go "HE SAID THE THING". And I hate the feeling of setting up the Next Installment in the Cinematic Universe, probably just because I'm exhausted with Marvel stuff - I'd love for an adaptation like this to be able to really and truly stand on its own.

Overall, it just felt less like the characters were driving the story and more like they were ticking off boxes, which is just something that any good finale has to contend with one way or another.

Anyway, that's a lot of nitpicking. Fundamentally, this felt almost like it was a really strong fic that did a surprisingly good job of wrapping everything up and was stunningly put together in places... but still lacked the spark of the original.

Stuff I loved: Vi/Cait getting a pretty strong arc and certainly the first lesbian sex scene I've ever seen in a TV-14 cartoon. Animation and score was stunning. I did love the what-if of episode 7 - something I've been waiting for them to acknowledge is that literally everything that happens in the show follows from that one break-in during episode one. I actually think Vi and Jinx's reunion and reconciliation felt earned.

I'm curious how I'll feel on subsequent rewatches - the first time I watched s1, I remember being blown away but not in a "this is the best thing ever" way, and it wasn't until the second time that it really clicked for me.

[loveandlegacy]

i think this is a little unfair as a critique because i generally do not see much value in being like "well i wish this story had just been a completely different thing instead of the story it was" like there are better ways to talk about how a narrative could be improved on its own merits rather than just saying "well do something different". BUT this is my blog where i get to say what i want and so: read the rest at your own risk wherein i talk about what i might have preferred to see with viktor's storyline

i think that if they were going to dispense with the variations of viktor's prior lore - which is totally fine to do tbh! - but they wanted to still stick to him feeling more alienated and indifferent to human needs/suffering but also superior to them and kind of outside of time without fully leaning into the timeloop cyborgism of it all, it would have been wise to make him somewhat more nihilistic on the order of doctor manhattan?

a: if he were outside of time in the way that doctor manhattan is, it would avoid the issue of a time loop (which generally tends to damage to a story in my opinion) and would still permit for some kind of epiphany about love a la what happens with doctor manhattan and laurie juspeczyk. it also would maintain viktor's ability to see into other people's pasts and memories or to walk among them in those past places. this might have even allowed us to get a fuller and more sensitive picture of sky as a person independent of viktor once he was unstuck from time or in quantum time or etc!

b: jon osterman is a physicist and, like viktor, goes through a transformation that basically makes him feel completely distant from humans and as if their fates are fixed in a hopeless cycle, he's obsessive about his research, and he generally behaves as if humanity is somewhat beneath him because of how he experiences time and space

obviously there are some differences. doctor manhattan never aims to build a perfect world of flawless nonsuffering. he decides to abandon humanity altogether, and the person with the questionable morals driven by a raging ego is adrian veidt, but honestly you could just blend the archetypes of the two and get a clearer sense of direction for viktor's story.

like obviously this is just my vibe. i think i like this better because doctor manhattan and adrian veidt, both of whom are deeply selfish and in veidt's case egomaniacal about how to 'fix' the world, are still realized in ways where both characters feels more complicated than how viktor's story played out in arcane. like even leaving off the league lore about him, i think the show either didn't have enough time to fully actualize the struggle in him between wanting to help and being sure he knew better than everyone else about how to help, or it was always just going to be too cartoon-villain simplistic with his army of evil robots. i think the latter is unlikely given that they worked pretty hard to paint silco, jinx, and more or less everyone else in the undercity in many shades of grey but who knows!

like most of what frustrated me by the end about viktor's story wasn't that he was doing cruel things, it was just that those cruel things felt goofy and flat compared to even the cruel things ambessa was doing for most of the season. i cite mandus from a machine for pigs a lot as a different possible comparison to viktor. mandus is another industrialist/inventor who ends up splitting his consciousness and decides the world is full of nothing but cruelty and that he knows better than everyone else and starts mutilating people and feeding them to each other to build a new world order. but even mandus, who traps people into forced-cannibalism, feels that he has more depth to him than viktor did for me by the end of the show. it may be how mandus's story is constructed and that his logic feels sadder than viktor's, or it may just be that again the writers had less time to deal with more storylines but! idk!

all in all i maintain that the machine herald arc was pretty disappointing and honestly kind of goofy/immature along with being like cringily ableist and relying on politically unsound tropes that mostly amount to 'hey watch out for communist zombies', so i'll be out here thinking about what might have made it land better for me

[tuxedoferret]

Arcane finale was good....but

Spoilers for the finale of Arcane season 2, Arc 3 in general.

I'm probably screaming into the void but I wanted to get these thoughts out and see what other people think.

In general, I liked the endings for most of the characters. Their arcs make sense.

Vi, Caitlyn, Ekko, Jayce, Mel, Singed, and Viktor's story conclusions, I think were ended beautifully! (And Jinx too but I'll circle back to her in a second). Their endings made sense and were executed very well! I'm content with how their stories end!

And MOST of the deaths make sense... most of them.

Of course most of the minor characters are dead, no surprise since a majority of them we don't even know the NAMES of unless you scour the credits in the VA section.

Ambessa's death was well done, with Mel finally getting her mothers approval through breaking free of her control and finally being able to decide her own life and Caitlyn becoming a true leader.

The only thing that really bothers me, is the deaths of Heimerdinger and Warwick/Vander. Out of all of the champions in the game they're the only non-humanoid ones that made it into the show. They're also the only (game first) champions to actually die and they barely get to do anything. (I am one of the believers that Jinx is alive because there's no fucking way they would kill off one of their chief money makers, also based on evidence in the show).

With Heimerdinger in season 1 we see him serve as an oppositional force against Jayce, and then a mentor working with him. He gets kicked off of the council as a result of his conservative viewpoint. And he reflects on this, he leaves to go help the Zaunites however he can but gets shunned away. Then the goes and helps Ekko with repairing his board and getting home. In season 2 this continues with Heimerdinger helping Ekko get into Jayce's lab and them having the discussion about wild runes before getting sucked up into the anomaly. His last episode is him in the alternate universe with helping Ekko build the Z-Drive to return to his own universe. He puts it in the amplifier, is about to go with Ekko, then runs out and puts a few more things together and just... dies. Thats it for him. MAYBE he'll come back since he's a Yordle but this is new canon and the man had flesh and blood squished out of him. But in general his death feels cheap and unnecessary. What was the point of his death? How did it impact the narrative and what did the story gain from it as a result? Not fucking much really. He's never mentioned again afterwards. I feel like his death had no impact on the story whatsoever. I honestly think it would've been better if he had survived and returned with Ekko to fight in the battle against Noxus and Viktor. I would've liked to see him, either returning to the council or not, atoning for his mistakes by trying to make things better in Zaun with his inventions.

With Vander/Warwick there was so much hype around the theory that Vander would be returning as Warwick. And we were all super excited when that came true! We love it when the narrative rewards us for paying attention! But we get like... 3 episodes with him before he becomes a Viktor automaton. He was also still very much alive even after Singed drained his blood, so Viktor was wrong about how that would kill him. Warwick's role in the end felt very lackluster, and it felt redundant to just, kill him off AGAIN. Maybe I'm just a little mad because I have read up on Warwick and I feel like he had more potential for the narrative than just... make Vi watch her dad die all over again. The fight scene with Warwick could've been replaced with any big evil bruiser really (coughBlitzcrankcough). In general Warwick felt more like a Vi and Jinx accessory than his own potential character. Which kind of sucks. And maybe I'm a bit salty that we didn't get a full wolf Warwick. I think the whole his mind was reset/erased bit could've still been done if the explosion damaged his head and it healed back wrong/if singed replaced his head with one of the wolves' heads to make him fully Warwick in the end.

Isha's death kind of feels... not impactful at all to the story afterwards aside from Jinx's spiral. I would've liked it if her death did more than just that (Like I said, permanently damaging Warwick/Vander would've been nice)

This is about the league of LEGENDS and you'd think that Warwick and Heimerdinger would have bigger roles than just being killed off to further another characters story after barely impacting the narrative.

Also I feel like Sevika being on the council is like... stupid. I think she wasn't handled well at all after episode 4. She just completely disappears after running away with Isha. Why do we never see her hanging with Jinx and Isha again? I would have LOVED to see how Sevika reacted to Vander not being as dead as previously thought, the man she betrayed and ultimately ended up mirroring in the end with her refusing to give up Jinx to Piltover. I think it would've been fun if Sevika was the one to tell Vi when she woke up that Jinx gave herself up, despite all of Sevika's protests, an inversion of what happened with Vi and Vander. Putting Sevika on the council in the end is just kind of weird for her character. I understand it's like, the idea of Zaun finally getting representation on the council, Sevika getting a say in what happens in the undercity. But I feel like that could've just as easily been accomplished with finally letting Zaun have its own independence with Sevika being the "Baron" of Zaun, being the new leader. Because we've seen she's a genuinely good leader! She has a good head on her shoulders. It would've been fun to see how she'd struggle with being the new leader of Zaun, struggling against the Chem Barons if future series ever decided to look into Zaun again.

In general I'm fine with the ending of Arcane. But I feel like the endings could've been written a different way for those 3 characters. I honestly feel like it would've been better if the show ended off where the game picks up, and I don't even play League, I just like the lore from what little I've been reading.

[eerna]

Hiii I have some thought contributions to the Arcane symposium if you'll have me!

I see people understandably angry at how Arcane handles who is or isn’t a villain and I suppose my two cents is that I didn’t have any hope of them handling it right in the first place, even back in s1 there were always parallels made, always some “both cities have good and bad” nuance when one city doesn’t have air to breathe and is colonized by the other. If anything the beginning of s2 was more consistent in that the second Caitlyn is personally inconvenienced she goes full chemical warfare and mass institutional violence

Personally I thought it unlikely that they suddenly change narrative tones and resolve the plot in a way that was satisfying to me, and I knew the pacifist “choose love not hate <3 zaun and piltover arms in arms” both-sides ending was inevitable, so I’m glad they at least had that whole thing with Viktor and Jayce and the timelines to distract me from it

“they shouldn’t have made Viktor, a Zaunite, the villain” but Arcane always made the villain a Zaunite! Before Viktor there was Silco, Piltover chooses peace but Jinx blows the council up and now they have to do a whole “look what you made us do” arc. This was my beef with Arcane from day 1 (it wasn't emphasized enough, IMO, that the villain is Piltover's oppression and marginalization of Zaun, and that this context renders null any "both cities" comparison)

Also Vi was written so poorly this season what's up with that

All that being said I suppose it’s more complicated to discern “writer’s intent” from that kinda show than it would be in a book or an indie project where there are fewer people involved in the plot writing and less interference. Like one deleted scene or one line of dialogue omitted radically changes the message. But well, there's the intended message and there's the manifest message and as the audience we are allowed to criticize both

Of course we shall, step to the podium~ Truly, the "writer's intent" is truly so complicated here, because anti-capitalist messaging in mainstream art powered by capitalism is always a nightmare to get through.

Oh yes it's a good take, I remember the discussions from s1 era well! However, I still don't think the "both sides have good and bad" thing is a red flag in stories, simply because it's true IRL. A ton of people have trouble committing to a side in a conflict because neither is totally morally pure, which completely blinds them to the truth that NOTHING is morally pure and choosing the lesser evil is the way to go. Silco was a brilliant villain to me because he was an oppressor himself, as people in power are rarely anything else, but that didn't mean that Zaunite ideals were worth any less! After all, Ekko held the same anti-Piltover ideals, but he is morally pure and thus unable to become an influential politician. He can support a small society, but not a large one, because no one really can do that without resorting to some bad shit. Just because Silco dreamed of being the same as Piltover's elite and became a class traitor by forcing his citizens into another toxic work culture, except this time they made HIM rich instead of Piltover, doesn't mean we should just give up on trying to make things better. Zaun during Silco's reign is just as worthy of freedom and equality as Zaun during Vander's reign. It doesn't matter that there are terrorists living there now - that doesn't excuse Piltover's violent actions. And s1 seemed to be aware of that, considering how the Enforcers were depicted, and in the end it's the Piltover council who are forced to give up instead of the Undercity. And the choice of peace wasn't as morally pure as it sounds: the council opposed it and was forced into it by Jayce and Mel's combined power, even Jayce was resistant to the terms at first, AND it still left the Undercity in Silco's hands, fixing absolutely none of the sins they committed there. It wasn't an evil terrorist blowing up a bunch of hippies, it was a hurt Undercity girl setting in motion an event that has been brewing for a long, long time, against a system which gave too little, too late.

So yeah, in short, I don't interpret s1 as ever trying to question whether Zaun was right to demand more from Piltover by saying "well both sides are bad so nothing should change". It simply showed the ugly truth to any revolution: leaders are practically never good people, and those who get too close to it are doomed to very cursed lives. And yet, giving up isn't an option, because the system IS bad and the system HAS to be changed, and if that isn't gonna happen by the way of peace, then you can't help but sympathize with those who were wronged when they do something horrible.

That's why it only worked when it focused on individual characters - that way you can understand why everyone is acting the way they are acting, and you avoid falling into broad strokes. S2 instead focuses on the aesthetic of revolution and war and the characters get lost in the big picture, which absolutely sucks and completely negates everything I've been typing about here. In fact, who knows, maybe my opinion changes too after I sit with s2 for a while and contextualize s1 within it. Maybe I was just wishfully thinking and misinterpreting this whole time. I already feel like a clown for defending this show, so I can totally accept that I could probably be wrong here. But I just wanted to write it all out in the name of discussion and interpretation!

[dandyseedlings]

breathing out storms when she comes around, she comes around, she comes around.

[p2ii]

I feel like there's something to be said about the way fandom will treat characters who's trauma they can personally relate to Vs characters who they cant

[dullahandyke]

didnt even touch on the sandra lynn stuff int he tags of the last post bcos if i talk about her im liable to explode. get behind me, middle-aged divorced woman proficient in archery

[blood-starved-beast]

I'm gonna say I agree with the finale. I'm frankly shocked we didn't get another Caitlyn/Vi teamup at the end. Like their whole deal in League is that work together and we didn't get a moment where hey at least they were doing that? Even if it gets split up when Ambessa shows up and then Mel joins the fight. As a narrative choice it's quite bizarre and I've told others I think it sort of reduces the impact of Caitvi. Like we got our moments with timebomb and of course jayvik. Why didn't they get their moments?

That said, I think there's something interesting about that sort of "agreement" between Jinx and Caitlyn about Vi. This is for another post, but Caitlyn and Jinx are basically two cheeks on the same ass, foils and all that. And they both know Vi. Vi is a protector, and she loves her family above all else. As Vander asked of her so long ago, she's never lost her big heart. I'd argue the only change is that it metastasized by her traumas that she cannot move away from that. Family is her Achilles's heel, and that's why she freezes seeing Warwick like that at the end, even though all logic suggests she should leave him and run. Vi can't. And if Jinx didn't realize that before, she definitely realized that then. To me, it almost reads like how soldiers with PTSD cannot hear fireworks and if they do hear them they react very bad and you cannot just force them to unlearn that (without therapy). I think Vi's need to protect has become something of that traumatic stress response. And it's related to her birth family - Caitlyn does not trigger this like Jinx does; Vi always chooses Jinx over Caitlyn.

So I think that understanding is why Jinx ran away from her in the prison, told her to be happy with Caitlyn, and possibly why she after escaping death did not return to say "hey Vi I'm here! I lived!!" and why Caitlyn never told Vi her suspicions (other than the fact that possibly, she didn't have 100% proof and not give Vi false hope). They both know Vi. They know Vi is gonna haul ass to find Jinx. But Jinx wants the death of her identity/to move on pass her past misdeeds/actions (this I think, is why in Caitlyn's speech to Jinx, she used "we" cause she knows how she and Jinx are similar). And Caitlyn, who knows Vi as well as Jinx, knows that Vi will not allow that. Vi at this point in time, is too stuck in the past. Hence respecting that choice, for Vi's sake.

Now don't get me wrong, it is morally dubious as fuck. But to me, it's why it's interesting. Cause it's a human conclusion. Same way ppl lie by omission, or lie to protect the sanity of their loved ones irl. As an amateur literary critic and person with a psych degree, I respect that decision and I respect writers who think in realistic human terms. Even if I think it's kind of fucked up on Jinx's and Caitlyn's end.

Vi got robbed by the finale

First, a few words on where I'm coming from. I really enjoyed Vi and felt for her in season 1. I'm a Cait/Vi enjoyer and was looking forward to their resolution. I do not have fundamental objections to Vi becoming an enforcer. I don't have a problem with Caitlyn and Vi having sex in the Jinx cell and I actually think it is one of the better scenes of her arc.

IMO she was great, tragic POV heroine and lead in season 1.

Her status changed in season 2, which is reflected in the screntime distribution (ie both Jinx and Caitlyn having more screentime). This does not have to be a bad thing. You can have good arcs and emotionally resonant stories even as a supporting character.

But the more and more I think about the finale and Act 3, the more I think Vi really got treated badly. And the core is really this:

I've joked that I thought about switching my ship allegiance to Mel/Cait after the finale. I'm not actually serious about it. But it got me to think.

And I came up with the following thesis:

1.) Vi is really, really unimportant and useless in the final fight 2.) That matters because they went with an an action finale

On to a long post discussing Vi's role in the finale and Vi's arcs in Act 1 and 2 and her lack of meaningful arc in Act 3.

Within the finale there's really a clear hierarchy of conflicts.

1.) Viktor is the biggest threat and the most emotionally emphasized climax. Jayce is the action and emotional hero of this threat, Ekko is the supporting cool action hero of this threat.

2.) Ambessa is the second most scary threat. She's not a universe threatening as Viktor, but she's still badass and interesting and she gets a cool and very lengthy action scene associated with her. Mel is the emotional core of this conflict. Cait gets the badass action part of this conflict. Mel and Cait also directly coordinate, increasing the badassery.

3.) Warwick by comparison is barely a goon. He feels like an afterthought. Not like a major threat. Vi and Jinx are "assigned" to him. Jinx is the hero of this already fairly unimportant conflict and I would argue she even gets the bigger emotional punch, even though Vi is clearly affected as well.

I find it striking how different Vi's role in the battle feels to Caitlyn. Caitlyn it feels gets two badass action sequences. First in the smoke, really getting to show of her sharp shooting:

While at the same time, Vi gets her shit kicked in by regular Noxian soldiers and is busy... trying to hold a door? Babysitting the shooting of a rocket?

I've been thinking about it. On paper, there isn't that much of a difference between Cait's sharp shooter sequence and Vi's sequence at the tower.

Both show several people dying around them (though Cait acts calm and professional about it while Vi reacts emotionally). Both have bit player characters stepping in to help execute what they are doing (Steb placing the bomb, Jhin tease guy shooting the rocket). Both have missions that kind of fail (Cait's bomb doesn't go off, the rocket shoots the empty egg thing).

But it still feels like Caitlyn just gets way more glory shots. While Vi gets pushed to the floor, gets rescued by Jinx and Ekko riding to her rescue.

Her big glory shot

In theory should be great. She is punching Warwick to rescue Jinx. But it's shot so far away and turns around so fast into Warwick choking her, we don't feel the impact of her punch at all, even though on paper it is Vi using her gauntlets in a really cool innovative way.

If I compare how the Cait/Ambessa fight goes, yes Cait also gets hurt and thrown to the ground.

But Cait's fight just feels way more badass and Cait like a fundamental part of that conflict. Cait and Mel fight like a well coordinated team while Vi, Jinx and Ekko feel a lot more erratic. Cait is the one who initiates the fight in the first place, Cait is the one who makes a badass sacrifice to open up an essential tactical weakness. Yes, Mel gets the last shot and the emotional payoff, but it still feels very much like Caitlyn's fight too.

Yes in theory, Vi and Jinx go back and forth with saving each other, but it's just much faster and erratic, and *busier*, it just never has the same impact to hit. (I would be very interested in seeing a numbers breakdown, how much screentime is spent on the various different fights but also who has longer scenes before the next cut is)

It just feels like this finale is filled with scene after scene after scene with Vi being shellshocked and helpless and not really being super effective enough to compensate for that. Neither her glory moments, not her emotional moments really get the time to breathe the way this moment does with slo-mo and a song.

Compare Vi hurtling herself at Warwick to save Jinx, versus Jinx hurtling herself at Warwick to save Vi.

Okay, so is this just a dick measuring contest over who gets to be the most badass?

No. It's not a crime for Vi not to be the most effective fighter in the finale. But let's take a step back.

Act 1: Vi is a supporting character, but she has a clear role

I have said before I feel a major difference to season 1 is that rather than Vi being the main driving character, the show switched. Cait is the main character of Act 1, Jinx of Act 2.

Vi has lost her spot as main character, but her role in the story is still very clear. She is there as Cait's partner, her heart, her conscience. She witnesses Cait's distress. She tries to reach out to her. When they have an action scene, they work together and coordinate.

Arcane has action roots. Characters express themselves through their action scenes. That's why it's important who gets what action scene.

Also, while Cait's grief and hate and decisions drive the events of Act 1, Vi has her own arc of having hardened towards Jinx (agreeing Cait should take the shot) and then having that challenged by the end and of course getting an emotionally charged poignant moment when Cait dumps her when Vi takes a stand for Isha (= Vi making a choice).

Act 2: Vi is a supporting character, but she has a clear emotional arc

IMO Jinx is the clear lead character of act 2. She has a clear arc with Isha, befriending Isha, rescuing Isha, losing Isha.

Jinx is also the driving force of the Warwick arc. She encounters Warwick first. She is the one Warwick recognizes first. She puts 2+2 together. She seeks out Vi. She initiates their trip to the mines. She gives Vi the important hint about correctly handling Warwick. Warwick jumps into action ("Don't touch my daughter") to save her. His "death" in this arc is linked to Jinx and Isha.

But Vi still has a nice and satisfying enough arc in Act 2 anyway. She starts at rock bottom and grieving, she gets roped in by Jinx, she is initially suspicious of Jinx, she starts to trust Jinx more, her reunion with Warwick is emotional, they all go and try to help him, Jinx and Vi think about their mother.

Vi also goes from grieving Cait, to fixing her own life a little bit, to re-encountering Cait and teaming up with her again.

The big theme of Vi's arc is trust. She has to get over her fears and trust Jinx's advice on Warwick, just like she has to trust Caitlyn about letting Cait tie her up and play fake prisoner.

Act 3: Jinx has an arc about Vi, but Vi has no arc about Jinx

Jinx's in arc in Act 3 is about deciding to leave Vi. Everything in this arc is to prepare us for it.

Vi is not at all in the first episode. Even though the trigger of that episode was according to Amanda Overton what would happen if Vi had died in the original explosion, and the episode is absolutely respectful of Vi, with much grief and praise about it, in the end the portrayal isn't really about how life is impossible for these characters without Vi.

We get told what's going to happen to Jinx and get emotionally prepared for it, even though we don't know it. Sometimes leaping a step forward means leaving a few things behind. We get prepared for the idea that leaving things behind doesn't have to be a bad thing.

In the next episode, again we are getting prepared for what Jinx wants to do through her vision of Silco. She's going to heroically break the cycle of violence. Also, codes and commitments (like Vi's to Jinx) can be the bars we lock outselves in with. Identities (like the Jinx identity) are the cells we want to break out of.

Jinx then makes her decision. She's going to leave Vi. Vi never giving up on her is perceived to be something negative by her. She sets Vi free, telling her to stop caring about Jinx, telling her to be happy with Cait instead.

In the last episode, Ekko talks her out of killing herself. But Jinx still is determined to leave Vi. She says her goodbye to Vi. She assures Vi that it's not a problem because they will always be close anyway.

She then cuts the ties, lets go of Vi's hand and tumbles down with Warwick (and by most people's logic, fakes her own death and leaves the city).

Jinx has made a decision about Vi, which she executes. But Vi has no say in this decision. That's why she has no arc. She doesn't get to make a decision about her future really.

Even sneaking out to try and save Jinx we find out was prepared for by Caitlyn (and of course we find out that Caitlyn is the one who understands what Jinx did while Vi is still outside of this decision). And yes, she chooses to sleep with Caitlyn and she chooses to live with Caitlyn. But do these things really feel like part of her arc or just Vi reacting to circumstances?

IMO Vi wasn't ready to let Jinx go, that's why Jinx had to do it against Vi's will. That's why Vi doesn't make a real decision in Act 3.

Amanda said they wanted to explore who Vi would be if she didn't have anybody she had to protect and that is a valid and cool idea. But how much time with that did we really get?

And yes I genuinely think that if Vi had gotten a better action role within the finale it would have made a real difference in not making her feel so aimless.

Don't get me wrong. I get why they split it like that. The story required for Vi and Jinx to be paired up, so they can execute the conclusion of their sisters story. And unfortunately, compared to the other threats going on in the finale that story didn't really get the attention and gravitas and time and focus it deserved. (also Vi doesn't have a meaningful enough relationship with Ambessa for it to work for her to be in the Ambessa confrontation)

The problem is also that Vi doesn't really have much of a say in the conclusion of the sisters story. And her future is with Caitlyn.

So if they had found a way to sneak in some Vi and Caitlyn also doing action together or even just have Vi react to Caitlyn's duel or have Caitlyn react to Vi being under attack from Warwick, I think it would have felt more satisfying vis a vis the relationship they are going to have.

Alternatively. I love Ekko. I love that he got a badass fighting moment against Viktor. But in the moment where Jayce flies past Vi, for a moment I thought Vi would switch battlefields and Jayce and Vi would team up again, like they've done a couple of times already. If Vi's identity within the final battle was to be a big damn hero, that would also have imo left us more assured about what her identity is moving forward. Rather than the only thing we have is her being fairly weak in battle, being left out of information loops/not being smart enough to recognize them and being Cait's sweet live in girlfriend.

I don't hate Vi. I don't hate CaitVi. And I actually have some hope that maybe there is a chance that CaitVi as a pair will get to show off their stuff in some other form after all. But yeah, that's why imo season 2 and particularly Act 3 really did Vi a disservice.

(I'm not even suggesting things like Vi's decision to fight for Piltover and seeing so many Zaunites die being given gravitas or her reacting to Sevika being on the council, because I think the writers just have no interest in this topic at all)

[kohakhearts]

hey that pokemon 2000 gifset + your jn dub analysis made me think about the pokemon 2000 dub - I've only seen it subbed once (compared to the hundred times I watched it dubbed as a child) so I could be misremembering, but didn't the dub completely change the themes of the movie with the chosen one ash thing?

i actually haven’t watched the sub nearly as many as times as the dub either :p but i have read extensively about this topic bc it’s personally my favourite pokemon movie and yes! the first and second pokemon movies are both victim to this (like mewtwo’s epic speech we all love so much at the end of the first movie…being a complete fabrication by the dub team :p you gotta give those writers credit - they were VERY good at what they did), largely i’m guessing due to cultural values and expectations. since they were trying to sell the anime to an american audience, not a japanese one.

tangentially, i will say i also think that’s the root of this like…subtle distinction some people have between the characters “ash” and “satoshi.” i don’t differentiate them in any big way myself because fundamentally they still are very much the same, but it is true that in japanese, ash has somewhat different mannerisms and responds differently to events at times, especially in the early anime when it was so much easier to get away with making big changes for…a big assortment of reasons haha.

in THIS movie in particular, some of those things are like…well. the prophecy is probably the most obvious change. the dub team rewrote it to include the chosen one reference, which works great because of the word play on ash’s name. in japanese, it just says “an exceptional trainer will appear to help calm the wrath of the gods.” ash’s response to this is more mild trepidation than outright fear. he doesn’t hesitate like he does in the dub. and tbh? both reactions make perfect sense for his character in my opinion.

in japanese, his concern is more "do you really think i can fit that role?" this...tracks pretty well with his character development by this point. like yeah he said he could win the indigo league, but he's also thinking about dropping out after gary loses; it's that little grain of insecurity he has, which he's normally good at covering up with arrogance (a lot of which is also very genuine, don't get me wrong). but he sees the opportunity to help and he takes it. that's just...what ash does.

in english, though, the prophecy is pretty clearly about him. there's no one else it could be. it has to be him. and he...doesn't like that? that scares him. which, fair. anyone would be terrified by being singled out like that. it's also so much...not ash's thing, even at this point in the series. his character development is about embracing having to work hard to do well. to keep trying until you get it right, no matter how many times you get it wrong. the idea of being a "chosen one" completely robs him of his ability to be so single-minded about what he wants his destiny to be that it manifests as pre-determined; it just...pre-determines it for him, if that makes sense. lol.

the thesis of the japanese version of the film is that no one person or pokemon can stand on their own. everyone needs help. it's about harmonizing with each other and with nature. about letting others help you, and helping them in turn. the english version rewrites that into a story about power and destiny. the title alone says it all, right? it's called "the power of one" - no reference to lugia, no reference to the birds. in japan, the title is about the revelation (or "birth") of lugia.

westerners love a good chosen one story, so this was a really good choice by the dub team in that respect. i mean, it's a narrative that's stuck really well. fandom loves chosen one ash! in general, western fanbases are really into this narrative. it's everywhere. and there's a lot that goes into that, culturally, and especially religiously, historically, etc. so at the end of the day, i don't think the change is so much about conflicting ideas about collectivism and individualism. it's more about goals and ideals, on a personal level.

let me say again for the 273456784th time, i love that they resolved ash's story by having him realize that the goal he's really been striving for all this time is to meet and befriend pokemon. to learn from them. to earn their trust. it's like...he did the thing that everyone else thought represented his goal, maybe even himself included, only to realize that his dream was never about the end of it anyway. it was about everything he learnt and everyone he met along the way. (i also suspect nobody writing in 1997 knew that that would be the ultimate resolution, either. but it makes sense in the entire context. it's kind of a nice irony, even. to only figure it out after writing the story :p)

and i think this little distinction is important to that goal! it's his whole character! which is why even though i too love chosen one characters, i don't necessarily think of ash as one. because even if he is, his whole Thing is that he wants to try. a lot of the chosen one narrative is about characters being reluctant to be used for a "greater good," or about them collapsing under that pressure. ash doesn't really have that. he does what he thinks is right because he...thinks it's right. sometimes, sure, others have to push him into it a bit, but usually they're actually pushing the other way - it's too dangerous, you're going to get hurt, etc. and to me, i don't know - thinking of times he's died, or nearly died, and some legendary or mythical pokemon has saved him at the last minute...i don't think that has to mean he's special in a cosmic sort of way. i think it just means he's special to them. that he did something for them, or for someone else they had come to care for (thinking manaphy responding to may's emotions, not just to the fact that ash was drowning, or in mpm ash convincing latios to trust him because of their mutual desire to save latias, etc.), and so they want to help him. which is completely opposite to the typical chosen one narrative, i think? because he doesn't do those things out of obligation...he does them because he thinks he can become a better trainer by doing them, and he wants to do that. and well. he did do that.

anyway my tl;dr here is YES they changed the theme a lot haha, but i find it fun that they also changed the characters’ responses to that theme. funnily that’s…kind of also what fanfiction writers do all the time, lmao, but that’s a whole other conversation.

[ninja-boo]

ok nvm i got mad at transformers writing again. back out of sheer spite

[gwynbleiddyn]

man i have such a weird ick about the found family trope that i think is purely rooted in the rhetoric that it should be a given for any dnd party that exists as a collection of societal outliers. like don’t misquote me on this it’s a great trope and i can enjoy it in the right context but it seems like there’s now a weird expectation that everyone in any dnd party should offer up their extremely personal baggage into some central pool for the party to pull from as and when they need. and it’s become so... ???? expected??? taken for granted?? whenever you get a motley group together that functions as a semi-successful adventuring party that people kind of consider you the awkward one when you say no actually you should earn my backstory and boy it just kind of sits wrong with me

[convictsinterim]

Jason is a cycle breaker, in that he is not a "Good" one but he is cognizant of it and also someone who does direct action about it. Not only is he someone actively aware of the cyclical and never-ending pileup of bodies in the attempts to uphold the emotionally invested rule of one man—he confronts the selfishness surrounding that decision and how it's affected so many people, especially him personally.

Dick does recognize some of the tells of manipulation and of imbalance in his relationship with Bruce, but he does not connect the physical abuse/domestic abuse he sees as a cop in Blüdhaven to the physical abuse Bruce doles out to him. He doesn't connect that he's being emotionally abused, the psychological stranglehold Bruce has on him, the paranoia that spawns out of that.

Bruce never even has to be around for Dick to be burdened by what his father thinks of him—the pater familias. Jason, though? Jason stepped out of that cage and is dancing outside of it. The shackles that bind Dick have always been unlocked. All Dick has to do is step outside the cage. It's why Jason triggered Dick so much in New Earth and why Dick was so antagonistic towards him, mean and even seemingly apathetic.

Seeing someone freely express their loud and turbulent displeasure, list their grievances and not back down to bury the hatchet, gnash their teeth and demand something more and something better incenses someone like Dick. Dick has argued, he has fought, he has yelled, but of it all and at the end of the day he will still go back to Bruce. Jason though? He cannot lie down. He will bite the hand that beats every single time, and strike at the eyes that watch. Jason can forgive, he can move on—it's literally all he wanted to do—but he couldn't without proper answers and he couldn't just 'move on' when Bruce continued making the same mistake ad nauseam with no change. Jason cannot be complacent.

Additionally, from Dick and Jason's shared kinship, Jason can get at the CORE of why Dick is so complacent, where other's maybe cannot. Jason knows it because Dick doesn't want to lose yet another parent. Jason would know, because he's lost all fucking four of his. One after the other, after the other, after the other. Dick holds onto things with his teeth, too, after all.

Dick is someone suffocated under the black tar Bruce has buried him into. Jason crawled out of the tar. He's still poisoned, but he's making it work!

This is why forcing Dick to interact more with Jason is like catnip to me xD

Jason's own cognizance and awareness as a whole is why crashing Jason into a character like Dick, someone great at self-delusion, is literally the most interesting thing you could do relationship wise—especially romantically.

Jason poses such a narrative and internal challenge for characters, he makes character arcs essentially requisite! He makes plots spin by stepping onto center stage. That is how a long term in-character Jason works. He forces change in some capacity, he addresses complacence. (It's why DC wasn't able to keep him up and full strength, he got diluted into… puddle sludge, mostly through Prime Earth and less so through Daniels and Morrison. Because even with Morrison, Jason still had more fucking teeth.)

Needless to say, transformative fiction also disrupts the status quo so push it in that direction of transformation—of change! I love challenging characters, ESPECIALLY basket-cases, and making them actually change or evolve as people and exploring them in ways that otherwise wouldn't ever get published.

Jason really does far more for Dick's character than Dick does for Jason's, when speaking from a developmental point of view. Speaking from a personal view, I do not want Dick to die beholden to the Batman and his black hole ego that leeches Dicks sanity away from him at every turn.

What Dick offers to Jason is this: loyalty once earned, respect, trust, and genuine unconditional love. A chance to be accepted by someone he really respects and looked up to, a chance to help someone help themself, a chance to foundationally have a profound effect on someone and that effect be positive!

What Jason offers to Dick is this: everything aforementioned, and freedom. Genuine freedom, under no pretenses or expectations that need to be met. There's no 'failing' to meet a quota, there's no forcing Dick into roles he doesn't want but will take anyway because Dick cannot easily say no. And great exposure therapy to help Dick stop pathologizing/moralizing every single one of his actions against a nonexistent jury filled with Batmen.

And so I offer to you, an incredibly complicated and interesting endeavour with many conquests!

actually can any dickjay shippers explain to me what the appeal is. i want to understand your vision please