#telling you your fictional ship is inappropriate

[herefortheships]

I wonder where the fandom policing and puritanical mentality that you can only ship couples that are innocent, appealing (visually and morally), and strictly plain vanilla, came from. When did that start? 🤔

[olderthannetfic]

I just have to say, I don’t like the internet’s recent obsession with labeling everyone, but right now it’s the proship vs anti. I don’t know which side I fall on but I don’t know how to say that without getting someone mad at me. I don’t like to see proship content and I have filters on so that I don’t see it, but I also understand that it has the right to exist and that policing what people post on the internet is stupid and gatekeepy. And I also know that saying that publicly could lead to me getting doxxed or some shit like that.

I guess the main reason why I’m venting about this now is because an anon just asked whether I was proship or anti because apparently I had reblogged a post that says “proshippers dni”, even though I have no idea when I did that and can’t find the post because tumblr’s search bar is shit. I know that this anon, whoever it is, is a proshipper, but I also know that some of my mutuals are antis, and whichever label I put on myself will probably end up losing me at least one mutual and I just don’t know what to do. Is saying that I don’t care about the labels a valid option in this situation? I don’t know what to do.

I’m sorry for venting in your inbox, I just had to get this off my chest. You don’t have to respond if you don’t want to.

--

Oh for fuck sake.

First of all, stop spreading the nonsense that antis promote, which is that "proship" means "problematic ship" and/or is a label for dark content.

The term originates as "I'm not an anti" and refers to the overall stance that dark stuff has a right to exist whether or not you personally like it.

In other words, your stance.

Second, man up and say what you think. If people are dickheads about it, block them and tell them how inappropriate bullying is. The fact that most people go "Oooh, I don't know where I staaaand" is exactly why bullies are allowed to run rampant through our communities.

Do you think I don't get threats by leaving anon on to make my inbox safe for you? Of course I do! But I get far fewer than I would if I acted spineless.

If you have mutuals who are truly antis, it's time they learned that they'll lose nice and reasonable friends by being harassing assholes who believe fairy tales about video games causing violence or the sexy equivalent.

--

Say "I think these terms are both dumb. I believe dark fiction has a right to exist, but I don't want to see it. If you think it's okay to harass real people to "protect" fictional characters, you are a terrible person. I don't need a label to say I'm anti-censorship and anti-bullying."

If anyone wants to cry about that, they suck and you should remove them from your life.

[antimony-medusa]

One of the things that I think sometimes gets lost when we talk about what's appropriate in fandom spaces is the notion that things can be appropriate in one space, but not for another. And that doesn't mean that the thing that's inappropriate in that setting is wrong, it just means that it's rude in that space. I think people want a single set of rules that's appropriate everywhere, but the thing is, you have to be able to assess the situation, and adjust your behaviour accordingly.

So an example. I have a fairly popular text post that was me asking about c!phil and religion in all innocence, and someone said "the only thing I have to say about c!phil is that he worships on his knees, thank you and goodnight". And I reblogged it like "I can't believe I forgot about how this fandom does phil analysis", cause it was at the height of the dilfza memes.

Anyways that's obviously a phil-is-happily-married/oral sex joke, in an oblique innuendo way, and on this site, where Phil is not here, and his friends are not here, with it being clear I was talking about the block man character, and we make jokes about sex and profanity (a very popular url scheme for a long time was "[name]shugecock" (or smalldick, depending on the joke)— that's a fine joke to make. I'm an adult, I can make sex jokes about fictional characters on the sex joke fictional character social media site.

If I was to make that joke in Philza's twitch chat, a) in his face, b) with his wife modding, c) in an enviroment where people aren't prepped for sex jokes, d) with it being not clear if I was talking about the cubito or about the real guy, that would be wildly inappopriate. I would be banned in every chat Philza mods in and I would deserve it.

That doesn't mean that it's inappropriate to make the joke in the first place though, just because I wouldn't do it at a Phil meet and greet. It means you gotta learn to read the room. (And like, sometimes it's hard to learn to read the room, but you can do it by pure brute-force memorization. I did.)

This is the same theory that underlies the fact that you can call your friends a bitch in a friendly way, because you are friends and you know each other's boundaries, but if you call your boss a bitch, you will be fired. There are rules about workplace appropriateness, and there are rules about what's appropriate in front of kids (I teach teens, I do not swear in front of them, I swear a LOT in front of my roommate), and there are rules about what's appropriate in different fandom spaces. Participating in an exchange about pregnancy and babies with your favourite blorbo of the moment? Great. Showing the actor gift art you got of him pregnant? No. Bad. Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars.

The thing that concerns me is that I think there are slight signs that as we get more comfortable with sexy jokes and offcolour remarks as a MCYT fandom (QSMP is the big banner example but it happens with other smps), we're taking what's appropriate in one space (tumblr, home of the brain worms, where I have seen the blog "philzaswetpussy" on my dash), and we're bringing it into places that it's not appropriate (sure, slimeariana is clearly canon, but maybe don't put the actual dicks-out fan art in the art tag on twitter that slime checks). Cause we can obviously tell that the rules twitter is going with are silly for here, so it's full speed ahead for roier/spreen etc, but the trick here is that it's full speed ahead HERE, or in fandom servers, and not necessarily in the streamer's faces.

We have a bunch of situations where creators have said that it's not their place to weigh in on shipping or nsfw etc, and people have taken that as a go ahead and that's fine, but thats still something where I'd like, caution people that just because they said "not gonna look at it not my deal", that doesn't mean that like, you should make it difficult for them to avoid looking at it. Talking about scitties is an honourable tradition, but telling scar that he makes you question your sexuality in his TTS— I made a horrified noise in real life and the cats came to look at me.

And I'm talking about the shipping, but this is also a thing with like— sometimes I see a streamer and I go "my friend you just vividly described neurodivergent symptoms" but it is ABSOLUTELY not my place to say that in their chat. It might not even be appropriate to make comments about it on my blog, with the amount of followers I have. I have to keep the "streamer just described the ADHD experience again :pensive:" comments for the group chat. And we all nod and go "yeah sounds like streamer", and we do not put it in his face, cause that's inappropriate.

We get to have fun with the fictional characters, including off-colour fun, but we still have to remember that there are real people who don't know us who are steering those fictional characters around, and it can be profoundly weird to see some of the (stuff that is appropriate in fandom spaces!) just up in your face in the regular fan art tag.

Just think about the space you're in, and who you're in front of, and if a CC notice is actually likely, and if a CC notice would be Very Bad actually with what you're doing, and keep the "world's sluttiest absent father" bracket (with associated slutty fan art) for here, not with the streamer tagged on twitter.

[prying-pandora666]

On Alucard and Maria

Are there actually fans advocating for Alucard to be written as Maria’s father figure in the new season of Nocturne? Like that would be a good thing and not infinitely creepier? I don’t think they’ve thought this through.

Alucard is the single most popular character in the franchise. He’s also probably the most shipped character. And yet he has only had one canon love interest in the decades since he’s existed. It’s Maria. And you’re telling me that you think that because he’s 300+ and she’s 17-18 when they started living together in the games, that it would be grooming. However, somehow him inserting himself into her life at age 16 when she’s just lost both her parents wouldn’t come off like grooming!?

Does this man look like he should be picking up random children!? He’s literally terrified of his own cursed blood. Maybe LISTEN TO HIM.

I’m convinced fandoms have forgotten what that word means. Grooming has specific features. It doesn’t just mean “older guy and younger girl.” A relationship with an age gap or an uneven power dynamic can be exploitative or abusive without being a case of grooming. Grooming specifically refers to the process of forming a relationship with a child with the intention of leveraging that relationship and trust to train and prepare (aka brainwash) your victim for the harmful activities the groomer wants to normalize. The relationship Alucard and Maria have in the games is in no way grooming. You know what would be grooming though?

Coming into a 16 year old’s life when she’s vulnerable, traumatized, and recently orphaned only to insinuate yourself as a new father figure. This is so highly inappropriate and a huge red flag. Consider what you’re actually asking for here. These characters do not exist in a a vacuum. They have a long history together as each other’s only canon love interests. You cannot fully extract them from the games, art, interviews, audio dramas, animations, and more where they’re depicted as a couple. There are decades of this precedent and you are asking Netflix to knowingly take the characters with an established romantic dynamic that the audience is already primed to see as romantic and instead portray their meeting as him trying to be her new daddy?

“Oh look! Alucard and his… daughter? Yikes.” This is an official advertisement btw.

THAT is grooming! Think about the optics of this! It would be abysmal! No it would NOT fix the problem of their age gap to make him act like a groomer and get in good with her as a dad. You just cannot completely extract them from the legacy of their relationship in the source materials. It will be incredibly creepy and textbook grooming if you get your way.

Is this really what you want to associate with an “adoptive father Alucard”? Because the art we create doesn’t exist in a vacuum. All the old content—official and fanmade—is still going to exist.

What is so objectionable about the original dynamic anyway? It’s a pretty fun subversion of the tired and problematic vampire trope of “vampire man stalks teen girl and coerces her into being his”. Instead in their original relationship, Maria is the one who pursues Alucard! It’s the young woman who takes initiative and is given the agency to go after what she wants. She courts and woos him. That’s part of the fun!

Yes, Alucard is 300+. He’s also a fictional creature that doesn’t actually exist IRL and stays eternally young. There are no actual people who will ever have his problem of staying 20 forever so it’s rather silly to say he can’t date any humans because of course he will have an age gap with any of them.

The only real problem I have seen people bring up is Maria’s age, but from what I can tell, the show’s already fixed this. Check it out.

In The Games

Rondo of Blood: Maria is 12. She and Alucard do not meet. Richter is a brother-figure and not romantic.

There is then a 5 year time skip.

Symphony of the Night: Maria is 17. She and Alucard meet to save Richter. At the end, Alucard says his goodbyes and intends to return to a life of solitude. Maria goes after him because she has developed feelings for him and doesn’t want him to suffer a life alone.

Maria is given agency to pursue what she wants and prove herself even against Alucard’s resistance and hesitance to let another person into his life.

They spend a year together before we get the audio drama.

Nocturne of Remembrance: Maria continues to try to get close to Alucard. They end up saving each other’s lives and in the end he finally confesses his romantic feelings for her. She is an adult and perfectly able to make her own choices. She chose him. He admits he returns her feelings.

How fandom can look at a story about a young woman subverting the trope and chasing the vampire to get what she wants—basically an anti-Bella Swan—and still find a way to disempower her just so they can pearl clutch? I couldn’t tell you.

So now let’s look at what the show did.

In The Show

Nocturne S1: Maria is 16. She’s been aged up from 12, probably to give her a more active and believable role. But this also means she’s within a normal age to start feeling attraction and expressing her wants. Within her society, she’s even considered of marriageable age. However we are spared the discomfort of our modern values clashing with her contemporaneous ones because Maria in this season isn’t interested in romance. She’s interested in revolution, equality, justice. They’ve portrayed her with so much love and strength. There is no indication they’d betray her by writing her as the child victim of a male suitor. In fact she only meets Alucard in the final few seconds of the season and the two do not even speak a single word to one another.

Now let’s remember the games had a five year time skip. The show only needs two years to get Maria to the adult age of 18, but assuming the follow through with the timeline and go for the full five?

Maria will be 21.

21.

Fan concept for adult Maria. Credit:@esp-art

Are you telling me a 21 year old woman is not old or mature enough to make her own decisions? How is this not a total infantilization of women? Do you think a 21 year old badass vampire hunter needs protection from the ace depressed dhampir boy who just wants to sleep and has in no way tried to pursue her until after she expressed consistent and persistent interest in him?

It is not “grooming” to meet someone when they were younger and then meet them again years later as an adult. That’s a thing that happens! In real life! Adults can still make decisions for themselves! It is only grooming if Alucard behaved in a way that would manipulate teen Maria and put her under his control and authority before she can consent. There is no indication that Alucard in the show is going to do this. And yet the fandom is basically demanding it by saying he should make her “his baby girl”?

And what of Maria’s feelings in all this? She just lost her mother and was betrayed by her father shortly after discovering he even existed. She has lived her whole life without a father. She is in no desperate need of a new one. And if she does need a family member, she already has one! Richter is 19 and is her trusted adoptive brother. Why wouldn’t she go to him over a total stranger she just met and who is half vampire - literally a predator creature that feeds on humans!?

Yeah, hi, Richter Belmont still exists. He and Maria consider each other family. Why would you want her relying on a strange man she just met as a “father figure” rather than her trusted and loving brother?

Have none of you even considered how Maria would feel if Alucard even tried to fill the paternal role? He’d have to force it on her through manipulation and coercion. No way she would want to view him that way. Especially considering she is 16 and likely to be as attracted to the sparkly 20 year old looking sculpted marble beauty as anyone else!

Don’t mind the beautiful eternally young man who looks made of pure porcelain and light. No teen girl has ever been attracted to this, right? No way it could be exploitative and creepy for him to present himself as her new daddy, giving himself authority and influence over her as his child to mold as he wishes, right? Oh yeah, this is MUCH better than Maria pursuing him of her own volition once she becomes an adult, right guys?

We are truly in the stupidest dark timeline.

Frankly, I don’t care if Netflix has them get together or not. They would work just fine as friends too. I just sure as hell hope they’ll ignore the fans clamoring for a creepy daddy/daughter dynamic. Dressing it up as “concern” won’t hide that for some it’s a fetish, and for others they’re just useful idiots who haven’t thought it through.

I implore you to think it through.

[darklinaforever]

The antis Cat King and Catwin obviously live in a parallel universe ?

Yes, the Cat King flirted with Edwin and offered to sleep with him. But when Edwin refused, he offered him another task. He never tried to coerce Edwin in any way, although he continued to flirt with him. That's the whole principle of the Cat King. He proposed to Edwin. Edwin said no. The Cat King agrees.

Because after all, isn't he a fair and consensual Cat King ?!

Flirting with someone, again, does not necessarily mean sexual harassment or coercion (as the antis love to claim, the worst going so far as to try to make people believe that the Cat King is a potential rapist).

Especially when the person actually enjoys said flirting.

Whether people liked it or not, but Edwin liked the Cat King and was attracted to him. He was not traumatized by him. He's not afraid of him. He appreciated all the flirting and interest that was shown in him (Edwin's body language in the presence of the Cat King indicates all this). And the Cat King didn't force him to do anything at all. He didn't even try. The complete opposite of the behavior of a predator and a sexual harasser.

And the Cat King being visibly strongly linked to desires, and more particularly Edwin's desires in the logic of the scenario, something tells me that he must have felt feel that Edwin liked him. The Cat King was essentially content to flirt with someone he liked and who he felt liked in return.

Also, that he had him watched ? (or stalker, as this person likes to say) Well he literally gave him a task / punishment to accomplish in his own town. Logically, he therefore keeps an eye on Edwin.

This comment literally comes from the post where I was full of the way in which the Cat King could be represented in the fanfiction dedicated to Edwin & Charles, namely as a potential aggressor (something which he is not shown to be in the show, and even less in the words of the writers and actors) :

Again, it's totally fine to not like the Cat King. Maybe this character didn't click for you and that's fine.

But stop making him out to be someone he's not, just to give yourself a morally high ground to dislike him.

On the other hand, if you are one of those who feel attacked by the character of the Cat King through his behavior with Edwin, that is your right.

But just remember that your personal feelings are not necessarily the reality of the character, and that everyone can have a wrong interpretation when it comes to fiction, even you. And this, no matter how noble you think you are in denouncing the behavior that seems inappropriate to you from the Cat King.

And above all, remember that Edwin does not experience his relationship with the Cat King as any kind of aggression or harassment whatsoever.

Don't project your own feelings of discomfort onto Edwin, who clearly enjoyed his time with the Cat King.

That's all for me.

For those interested,I have tons of posts about the Cat King and Catwin on my tumblr. Simply enter the name of the ship in my search bar !

[killkaramazov]

This will be my worst post but fuck it. If you’re absolutely DETERMINED to take it there then Smerdy/Ivan absolutely BODIES Alyosha/Ivan in terms of narrative/characterization/dynamic/motif and theme/basically everything else that matters. But it is really not about that for the vast majority of people who are deadass about shipping yaoi from a Russian novel published in 1879. All the IvanYosha stuff seems like it’s really more about getting your rocks off on AO3 and drawing two conventionally attractive anime twinks kissing. To which I wonder why you wouldn’t pick literally any two characters from any media for that unless you’re just into incest or something. 

I really love the Grand Inquisitor kiss! And I don’t like seeing it interpreted that way! 

On the other hand something that drives me insane about my personal interpretation of the book is the juxtaposition between the Alyosha Ivan kiss vs Ivan’s general disgust for Smerdyakov. Why is Alyosha kissing Ivan a pure, innocent expression of Christian love for all humanity but Smerdyakov’s gesture of love (killing Fyodor) is something so perverse and horrifying? It shows us something about their station of life through the roles and the acts that are even allowed to them in the narrative.

As far as SmerdyIvan goes I am reminded of the JSTOR article I read (that I now cannot fucking find) where the author mentioned an idea that all of Dostoevsky’s novels center around or contain one central taboo that is so unspeakable that it is scarcely even outright mentioned, and that the central taboo in question in TBK is that Smerdyakov is the fourth brother.

Incest is already gotten into in canon and much has been written about this, especially regarding Dmitry and Fyodor’s rivalry over Grushenka, but also with Ivan falling in love with Dmitry’s ex. So even though we are going far afield from authorial intent, it is really not that much of a jump to start looking at emotional incest from other angles within the family, as we already know literally every other type of abuse was already occurring within that (entirely fractured) family unit. As far as I am concerned regarding authorial intent, any claim you want to make about a work of fiction is fair game as long as you can justify it with evidence from the text, and people have been writing academic articles and essays making wild inferences from this text for the last 150 years, so I defend my right to make this interpretation. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if Freud can diagnose Dostoevsky as bisexual we can say whatever we want about this book.

We know from the canon indisputably that Smerdyakov is unhealthily attached to Ivan, and we know that some vague thing about Smerdyakov sets Ivan’s Geiger counter for rancid horrific disgusting vibes to 10 immediately, anytime they are on the page together. So we can infer a lot from that.

Smerdyakov was literally born of sexual violence, and is a pariah in terms of his gender expression and sexuality, so him taking on the role of someone with a warped sexuality in the narrative just sort of… follows, in terms of the novels concern with the idea of inherited sin. 

There is something compelling to me about the idea that Smerdyakov would seek entrance into the Karamazov family in another, weirder way psychologically through attaching highly inappropriate feelings to Ivan. (‘If you think of me and my feelings toward you as incestuous, then that means you have acknowledged me as a family member’) 

And regardless of what I literally just said about authorial intent, Dostoevsky outright tells us how gay Smerdyakov is like every single time he’s on page. So there is also that.

Their relationship appeals to me greatly insofar as it is utterly disgusting and that’s my jam. There is lots to explore in this dynamic but one indisputable thing baked into the text between them is that it’s literally impossible to imagine any truly romantic union between them simply because of the way they both are. They repulse each other far too much for any expression of that sort. The actualization of their inappropriate relationship is not a culmination through an even vaguely romantic or sexual encounter, instead, it is the fulfilling a murder pact. 

They are like two oppositely charged magnets or something, in turns attracting and repulsing one another, pushing and pulling on each other’s gravitational pulls. Regarding the Tchermashnya-Moscow conversation, the way that their conversations are in doublespeak, with words said out loud and then literally entire other sentences written out in thought and illustrated through description of physicality, is incredibly fascinating to me. They seem to be literally communicating telepathically.  I am reminded of another JSTOR article I read that mentions the Dostoevskian doubles “exerting influence over one other that cannot be explained in any literal sense.”  The only reason they can communicate like this is because they are doubles, and this doublism is reinforced again in the narrative by their being fake twins, the same age but born to different mothers. 

They are each other’s shadows, they share a consciousness on some level, or access each other’s consciousnesses at different times through this shared plot in a way that seems incomprehensible to both of them. And Smerdyakov, in my own interpretation and opinion, as someone who is completely starved for any kind of positive regard, takes this for love. Whether that’s familial or otherwise or both. 

They engage in this mutual seduction towards an ultimate goal or realization: Ivan presents the idea, that “all is permitted” and that perhaps it would be for the better if Fyodor were dead, and Smerdyakov takes his lead from this and in turn pulls Ivan into the murder plot. Their relationship is romantic insofar as they are seducing one another in turn towards this unspeakable and forbidden act that they both desire: the murder.

They deny it right to each others faces, only Ivan’s is an earnest denial, to himself first and foremost, and to Smerdyakov it’s just sort of… foreplay. Like, “we’re just two clever people who are only saying this because we have to, and we get it, and you’re in this with me.” 

There is something really compelling too in the fact that Ivan is on board with the murder plot in one scene on a subconscious level, but later will utterly deny that any of this ever happened or that he ever felt that way. He has expressed and betrayed a desire that is so deviant, so forbidden, and so distressing to him that he has a psychological break over denying that that could have truly been something he wanted. Ivan expresses overwhelming disgust and disdain through the entire book, mostly towards Smerdyakov, but finally towards himself when he is forced to the realization of the role he has played as the idealogical murderer. Whereas Smerdyakov, the more active pursuer in their relationship, is not ashamed of his desires and is the one who ultimately has the lack of inhibition required to carry out The Forbidden Act. 

Ivan is attracted by Smerdyakov initially, despite himself, for reasons he can’t understand, like one is drawn to a cataclysmic disaster of fate in a Greek tragedy or something, and ultimately it descends into complete loathing on both sides, kills Smerdyakov, and mocks Ivan’s entire character by undermining his self concept and his entire value system and laying utterly bare his fatal flaws as a human being. Utterly doomed and hopeless relationship in every single way! 

Alas, no one wants to match my freak about this and that is definitely for the better. If I had to see ship art of them kissing anime style I would kms. Whatever the fuck they had going on is way better. 

[fanby-fckry]

Throwing this in the queue, because I don’t want it to look like I’m vagueing (technically I am, but this is also a general vent and psa).

I genuinely hate it when people say “delulu.” I think it dilutes the meaning of the word (both the butchered spelling and the way it trivializes delusions), and as someone with psychosis + delusions, it irks me to no end.

I’ve seen it used both in wildly inappropriate ways (e.g. people calling themselves delusional/delulu for shipping non-canon ships) and in technically correct ways that are just… Off. Ways that make me suspect the person using the word doesn’t actually understand what delusions are, and are pop psych-ing their blorbos with no research or lived experience.

For the record, I’m not knocking people who project their symptoms onto fictional characters or who reclaim ableist/saneist language, and because I cannot definitively tell who is projecting/reclaiming, and who is talking out of their ass, I would never call out anyone in particular.

I don’t support gatekeeping, censorship, or callout posts, which is why I’m posting like this rather than naming names or pettily reporting people for ableism/hate-speech when it’s likely they just don’t know any better, or that I’m the one missing context. And I know that trying to forcefully censor anything regarding marginalized groups is likely to come back around to bite the same group in the ass.

That being said, I am begging non-delusional people to please put some thought into the words that you use and the way you portray/talk about delusions in fiction and in daily life.

Content Warning: unreality/talk of specific delusions; if you suffer from delusions and find your symptoms worsen when hearing details of others’ delusions, I recommend scrolling.

I’ve struggled with delusions regarding “mind readers” for about as long as I can remember, often becoming extremely distressed by the idea that someone in the room could be reading my thoughts, to the point of creating mental mantras to distract/overwhelm potential mind readers and repeating them over and over again in my head, screaming them with my inner voice.

It’s gotten a lot better with time and therapy, but there was a time where I had persistent thoughts of, “what if somebody can hear this?” and spent 30+ minutes straight addressing potential mind readers via thoughts.

I took “thought crime” to the extreme. I genuinely believed that at any time, there could be someone who might hear my thoughts and judge/punish me for them.

I have a similar delusion that still plagues me to this fucking day, where I believe that anything I say out loud can be heard, even if I’m alone. Who hears it? That’s not specified. It’s some nebulous ‘someone,’ but for some reason, they terrify me. There are times where I physically cannot bring myself to speak because I’m afraid that the ‘someone’ will hear.

Being a crackshipper who understands that your ship will never be canon but likes to play pretend is in no way comparable to experiencing delusions. Trust me, I’ve got both!

I’d also like to talk about using “delulu” to refer to delusions of grandeur in fandom.

Disclaimer: I don’t have a whole lot of personal experience with delusions of grandeur (I experience some fleeting instances of grandiosity, but not really to the point that it significantly affects my life), so if I say anything inaccurate or insensitive, please, please feel free to correct me.

It feels like delusions of grandeur are highly misunderstood and trivialized even moreso than other types of delusions.

Having a skewed sense of self can cause major problems in a person’s social/interpersonal life, cause an increase in risk-taking behavior which can but their health and their life in danger, and is often the result of trauma. Yes, this includes delusions of grandeur!

If you’re calling your blorbo “delulu” for having a grandiose view of themselves, please take a moment to ask yourself how this trait affects them, and how your description of it might sound to the real life people reading it, especially if this isn’t your experience.

Again, I cannot stop you. Not without potentially hampering the ability of delusional people to talk about our symptoms, scaring off questioning and self-diagnosed folks, and inciting infighting. And even then, I don’t think it’d truly scrub every use of the word.

But at least think about what I’ve said here. Pretty please?

[cosmicjoke]

As an eruri shipper I wanted to thank you for your callout post. For nearly a year now I have gotten so much hate on my fics that I thought about deleting them, I haven't tho, thankfully. I found out about the spiteful troll and so I did my best to ignore it. However, the hateful comments my work was getting was beyond me because I hardly ever care what people ship or do and was simply minding my business writing what I like only to be told that I'm a jealous loser and I should stop writing Levi together with the "ugly bitch" (referring to Erwin) and that I should touch grass or slit my throat ... which?? And they made it sound like shipping Levi with a man was illegal or that the ship was inappropriate in some way.

I don't know who is really behind those hateful comments but if it's really her I hope karma hits her way very hard. Don't tell people to kill themselves over fiction EVER. That's common decency.

And about some eruris seeing you as an anti shipper. I'll admit I thought you were one as well. It didn't bother me as everyone is free to do whatever they want, but it's a pleasant surprise to know you actually like the ship and write fics for it. If anything, I admire how you can put your shipping goggles aside to write your analyses. It's very impressive.

Don't know if this is relevant but self shippers scare me a bit. Some of them have mean girls energy and I don't want to be attacked so that's why I'm staying on anon🙏🏻

First of all, let me truly thank you from the bottom of my heart for reaching out. It means the world to me, and I admire you for sharing your experience too. I'm super glad to hear that you didn't let the person leaving hateful comments on your stories drive you to delete them. I understand completely where you're coming from, as I've deleted stories of mine in the past due to an overabundance of negative comments. But I've never had anyone actually leave me death threats, or wish for harm to befall me on any of my stories, and to do that is truly the lowest of the low. Not just because it's over something as harmless as a piece of fictional writing, but just in general, it's never okay to wish harm on someone who's never harmed anyone else, or over something as ridiculous as a disagreement.

And yes, given what I've seen from this person on twitter, claiming Erwin is some "old man", they seem to think shipping him and Levi is tantamount to pedophilia, which is so absurd it doesn't even warrant a response. Erwin is at most maybe 5 years older than Levi? If even? They're both in their 30s. Shipping them is totally normal and healthy, lol.

I just think this person has some sort of raging, disgusting prejudice against gay relationships, and they view all gay relationships as perverse in some way. It's truly their problem, not anyone else's. I don't know either if it's the same person I got into an argument with here on tumblr, but so much of the language is the same, and the things they say are so similar to what was being said on twitter and a03, that I'm more than inclined to believe it is the same person. I can only hope my post helps inform more people about them and what a toxic, horrible person they are. Hopefully it will lead to them being blocked so that it isn't so easy for them to harass others. Though I already know they have multiple accounts here on tumblr, since they saw my post and started ranting about it on their blog, even though I had them blocked.

It also means the world to me to know that I've been able to clear up with you my stance on eruri and shipping in general. That was big of you to not be bothered by me when you did think I was an anti, but I'm glad I was able to show you that I'm not. I'm really, really not, lol. I love eruri. It's my favorite ship, and all my favorite AoT fanfics are eruri fics, lol. You can find comments I've left on too many to count at this point. I just try to keep it out of discussions which focus on "Attack on Titan" itself and Levi's role within the story, because I just don't see his relationship with Erwin in canon as romantic. I just think you have to keep the ship separate from canon because if you're going into an analysis of the narrative and Levi's or Erwin's role in it with some preconceived idea that their relationship is romantic in nature, then that's going to color one's ability to objectively analyze the motivations and the reasoning behind both Levi's and Erwin's actions. But I was never, ever against the ship, or against the idea of them being shipped. I think I got the reputation of being an anti because for a long time, I was being inundated with anon asks basically accusing me of being homophobic for saying eruri isn't canon, or anon asks trying to "prove" to me that it is canon and then getting angry at me when I disagreed, or when I lost my patience with them for simply not accepting my stance on this issue. And I think this small group of people then went around to other eruri's and spread to them that I was some sort of aggressive eruri hater. But again, I never was and never will be. I talk more about Levi's relationship with Erwin than any other character, and I find their canon relationship to be incredibly moving and powerful, and further, I love Erwin as a character. One thing I hope all of this will also do is make it clear to other eruri shippers that I'm not against them or their ship at all. I really don't want to be anyone's enemy, least of all eruri shippers. That was never something I set out to do, haha.

But yes, I'm right there with you regarding some self-shippers. Obviously, most of them aren't like this person. Most of them are normal and understand what they write and do is just for fun. But after "Bad Boy" came out, it seemed like the most push back against analysis of that story and its implications came from the self-shipping community, particularly people that seem to actually labor under some sort of delusion of actually, truly being with Levi in a romantic, sexual relationship. I don't understand that at all, because Levi isn't real, lol.

But they seem to get so upset at any discussion of Levi's trauma, or of Levi being affected by his trauma, because acknowledging that trauma and the impact its had on him ruins whatever fantasy, dom-daddy version of Levi it is that they've concocted in their heads. They like to claim Levi is some hard-ass, stoic, unaffected, domineering sex god, because that's what turns them on, and any discussion about what the actual reality of Levi's sexuality would likely be, due to the sexual trauma he's been exposed to, needs to be shut down, because it ruins the fantasy they have. They can't claim that the way they characterize Levi is objective or accurate to canon if Levi's sensitivity or vulnerability as a person is acknowledged, so they like to claim he's not affected at all by his past trauma, that he's just too hardcore to ever succumb to or be profoundly impacted by the things he's lived through. They like to imagine he's just come out the other side totally a-okay and that his stoicism and rudeness is 100% just a product of him being kind of a mean person, again, because they like the idea of being treated meanly by him in a sexual setting.

But Levi isn't a mean person, at all. He's literally the opposite of mean. He's the most thoughtful and considerate character in the series, constantly going out of his way to express his gratitude and ease the suffering of others. He's just awkward, like Dimo Reeves says, and isn't good at filtering his words or expressing himself. That some of these people refuse to acknowledge that the way Levi grew up, the environment he grew up in and the way he was raised, didn't have an impact on his ability to navigate social situations is patently absurd and stupidly unrealistic. It also undermines the severity of abuse Levi suffered in his upbringing, to deny that it had any sort of negative or harmful impact on his ability to interact socially with others. He was raised by a serial killer, for Christ's sake, lol. He wasn't ever taught how to talk to people in a way that would make them more comfortable. He was only ever taught violence and how to kill by Kenny, and he was too young when his mother died to learn anything from her, and he was also abandoned and left on his own at the age of ten, in the most cutthroat, dangerous environment there is inside the walls, surrounded by criminals, rapist, murderers and human traffickers, as well as just desperate people who would resort to plenty of bad shit just to survive. He probably didn't have a single, normal social interaction in his life until he met Furlan and Isabel. I would like these people to explain to me, then, how it is they think that didn't have an impact on the way Levi interacts with others?

He's an exceptionally honest person, too, and he also isn't someone who's concerned with being well-liked, so he doesn't try to ingratiate himself to others by acting friendly. But Levi never sets out to hurt anyone's feelings. He isn't malicious or cruel. He just says what he's thinking and sometimes it comes out sounding unkind. And we see, when Levi realizes it, that he tries to explain himself, again, not because he wants to be liked, but because he doesn't actually ever intend to hurt anyone's feelings. This idea that Levi is a mean person is totally wrong.

Anyway, I went off on a bit of tangent there, lol. Sorry about that. But again I just want to reiterate how much I appreciate you reaching out like this! And don't let these freak shows get you down.

[obstinatecondolement]

I had a nightmare about burglars beating me with horse whips last night and woke up to agonizing gut cramps and another comment about how I write too much gay Porridge fic.

This couldn't be a worse time, guest commenter! I have been whipped all night by imaginary burglars stealing my laptop while I was crunching on meeting a podfic deadline (can't possibly imagine what that might have Represented, lol), my tummy fucking hurts, and I don't care to hear this shit!

Anyway, I have now set all my AO3 works so only registered users can comment and politely but firmly asked this guy not to keep leaving comments like this, so if he does make a fucking account to keep it up, I will be able to link that to the abuse team to show that I asked him to leave me alone.

Like, the first time was funny, but this is just kind of a bummer. I don't care if I never get positive feedback, but I could do without fucking randomers saying I'm monotonous for writing All These Homosexual Porridge Fan Fictions. I can't fathom how someone found their way to AO3 and managed to be so shocked by shippy fic about the two leads of a show being the majority of the fanworks in the tag, nor why he has apparently read multiple works that he clearly doesn't like and commented twice to tell me. I am not the one being inappropriate here! Mute me, filter out the ship, filter out m/m, don't seek out fic you don't like in the first place, or at least stop making your inability to do any of those things my fault.

[princeescaluswords]

There is a willful blindness in fandom spaces when it comes to the idea of community, that somehow if we all simply respected everyone's right to whatever interpretation other people choose to make, we would all be happy and at peace and enjoy whatever our particular fandom community is centered around.

If only it were so, but that can't happen. We can make fun of "the discourse," but the concept of 'community' -- which we tout so highly -- was built around the reality that different people have to be able to resolve their differences. Discourse, before it received the connotation as being pointless bickering, was about a community working out its differences through reasonable and respectful argument. Because there would be arguments whenever two people existed in proximity to each other; there has to be on any topic when there are multiple perspectives.

Because do you know what you get if everyone respects your interpretations of a fictional entity? You get the asshole from the 9-1-1 fandom who messaged Lou Ferrigno Jr. and wished him a fate similar to Liam Payne's. Tommy, Lou's character from 9-1-1, has been interpreted as a 'sexual predator' because he made some mild innuendo with Buck at what people (who -- strangely enough -- ship Buck with someone else) think was an inappropriate time.

There is literally nothing on the screen to justify that interpretation. It's not presented that way. It's not embraced by the writers, the actors, and the majority of the non-fandom audience. And if you point out that this 'interpretation' is extreme, insincere, and perhaps offensive to some people, you get the perennial 'live-and-let-live' arguments.

The pursuit of truth, even in terms of fictional characters, is important, not because the fictional characters can get hurt or should be regarded as somehow real, because we need the discourse, the ability to argue about what happened or didn't happen, even in fictional narratives, like we need to eat a balanced diet, get sufficient exercise, and engage in leisure activities to be fully actualized human beings. People who can't tell a legitimate interpretation from an illegitimate interpretation are susceptible to all sorts of rhetorical manipulation. Just look at the presidential election.

[heathersproship]

how bad is it? i just got it on my youtube recommended and i dont want to give it watch time

Going through the transcript because I'm not watching it again lmao. Typed it all out for context. Misinformation bolded in red for you to skim through.

TLDR: Youtuber Thumin obviously and obliviously describing antis but labeling them as proshippers. Unsurprisingly, she got her info from the good ol' Tiktok.

Starting at 3:24: "Let me go over what a proshipper even is."

"A proshipper is a fandom term for an individual who endorses or creates content that ships fictional characters together regardless if the ship is considered controversial or taboo. These ships can include minors in compromising situations, child x adult relationships, incest, and even glorified violence and SA. The reason why proshippers get so much backlash is their insistence on normalizing specifically child x adult relationships and sexualizing underage characters in their works while avidly defending their stance. "According to proshippers, they aren't doing anything wrong by depicting fictional children in inappropriate ways because no real child was harmed when creating said works. They are adamant that the problematic works they create or consume are completely harmless because it's fictional and those who criticize said works are stupid and in the wrong. This is my biggest issue with proshippers specifically. It's one thing to have a controversial opinion on something and rolling with it, and another to try and shove it down others' throats or harassing and bullying others who don't agree with your opinion. Proshippers are infamous for seeking out anyone who has any criticism for works that depict children in disturbing ways and straight up harassing them over that opinion. "It happened to me a while ago too when I criticized a manga because it shipped a kindergarten teacher with a toddler and I got swarmed by angry proshippers who insist I was in the wrong for my opinon. They went on to harass me in my mentions by sharing toddler hentai for anyone to see while still mocking me for not liking such a predatory relationship. [. . .] "In these fandom streets, proshippers are infamous for being freaks and weirdos who judge anyone who doesn't approve of their bizarre interest in sexualizing fictional kids. Some go as far as calling proshippers who still continue to sexualize children even in their adulthood [pedophiles]. [. . . ] So now that we know what a proshipper is and how problematic they can be . . ."

At 6:40:

"A proshipper is literally just a term for someone who supports problematic ships . . ."

At 9:40:

"When it comes to the whole discussion of if being a proshipper is good or bad, that's up to you guys to decide for yourself. I personally dislike the ship dynamics that proshippers die on the hill for. I think it's disgusting to sexualize underage characters, incest, and non-consensual relationships. That's my opinion. I also believe that sharing art like that could hurt real children because it helps normalize depredation that is being glorified in said works. Again, this is just my opinion. If these sensitive and taboo subjects are covered in a non-glorified way in order to shed light on them or to tell a compelling story then I personally don't mind them. As a fan of horror mangas and thrillers, it's common to come across stories with disturbing relationship dynamics and that's totally okay. The issue I have with proshippers is that they defend even the most blatant works that are literally just made and meant for predators to consume. They also have to attack and force their ideals on anyone even if it means harassing them for simply disagreeing with them. This is what I've personally noticed is the case, at least online."

So my New Year's Adam was incredibly disappointing lol. I quite liked her content. And I did the proshipper thing, which was to immediately SMASH THAT SUBSCRIBE BUTTON to unfuckingsub.

There was a comment she replied to saying that she worded it like this due to her experiences with proshippers in the past. Bestie, those weren't proshippers. SALS, like live and let live, is inherently anti-harassment. Someone whose job is to put out informative videos to facilitate meaningful discussions should know not to get her info from fucking Tiktok of all places.

[paperstorm]

I've read often how if I'm a woman and enjoy watching shows with gay male couples in them I'm fetishizing them. But I don't care about sexual components at all...? I'm an aro/ace woman, yes, but what drew me to couples like Tarlos was a meaningful relationship between two men - which I rarely get to see in real life AT ALL, whether platonic or romantic. I see women hugging, linking arms, talking about the "deep stuff", supporting one another - but never men. EVER. Am I still doing something bad?

I'm certainly not an authority on anything but I always try to think like ... am I harming a real life person by my actions? And if the answer is no, generally I think you're good. Fetishizing is a really complicated word because there's nothing on its face wrong at all with having a fetish. That literally just means you experience desire for something other than a sexual organ. Technically liking breasts is a fetish lol. It's such a broad term, and it's difficult to pinpoint the moment it turns into something bad. Probably, it's in the existence of a fetish causing you to reduce a real person's worth to only that thing that you find attractive. If you stop treating them like a human being and only value them as long as they are fulfilling your fantasies, that's bad. And it's hard to do that with characters because they do not exist. Are you finding gay couples in your real life and demanding they kiss in front of you? Are you telling real men it's hot if they kiss a boy but then advocating for the rolling back of LGBTQ rights? Are you making inappropriate sexual comments toward your gay colleague? Are you talking to him about your fictional ships in a way that loudly communicates you don't give a shit about these characters beyond how hot it is when they kiss? If not, you're probably fine. You can't hurt real people by having thoughts about fictional characters in your head.

[d3ath-n-d3cay]

Alright children (not necessarily literally but hey),

I’m going to educate you all on English, Fandom History, and Internet Safety. I’ve seen so much discourse over antis and proship over my many years on the internet. From what I’ve seen people become very confused on the meaning of words, people from both side. So I’m here to sell it out plan and simple.

Proship simply means you believe in the concept of letting people ship what they want. It started back when shipping wars were big because fandoms couldn’t always agree on a ship for certain characters. In truth that bit hasn’t changed much. People still can’t agree. The pro in proship simply means for, as in are you for or against something. It is not short for problematic in any way and has nothing to do with dark fiction or problematic ships.

There are many people out there who don’t enjoy dark content, who don’t ship things that are problematic but that don’t feel the need to attack those who do enjoy those things. That alone makes them proship. It means they are following the idea of letting people enjoy what they want without persecution or argument. It is so easy on the internet to block people or content you don’t like. Especially if people use the correct tagging on websites that have such functions. It is important to always curate your internet experience because much like the real world other people are going to cater specifically towards you.

As said above being proship doesn’t mean you like dark / taboo content. However liking such things does inherently make someone proship. Liking these things in fiction and fantasy is not necessarily wrong and it isn’t a crime. However there are definitely some people who have more than a fictional interest who will try to use fiction to fulfill these desires or even hide behind the guise of “oh it’s just fiction”. There are also people who claim to be against such things, who talk about protecting the children online but use this as a way to get close to and groom children. Both sides have predators hiding among them. The thing is you can’t tell who someone is just from posts online. So unless you have definitive proof someone has committed a crime it’s best to just let people be.

Here is where Internet safety comes in and really parents have dropped the ball here. I know as a minor I was often in spaces I shouldn’t have been. I was a teenager and puberty is rough. I will not tell teens “hey avoid all adult content”. It is perfectly normal at that age to have desires and curiosities about sex. However be mindful of adults online. If you don’t know someone irl or can’t verify they are in your age range then it is best to keep conversation to sfw topics or even not engage at all. No adult should ever broach sexual topics with you if they are aware you’re a minor. There are unfortunately predators out there with more access now than before. It is important to know how to keep yourself safe. Avoid certain websites, block tags, and block accounts of people who make you uncomfortable or talk to you in a way that isn’t appropriate. If you’re unsure about if something is inappropriate ask someone you know and trust.

Stay safe and stay happy,

- Shigaraki

[fertilize-my-eggs]

Let's talk about this image shall we!! (Long rant and yapping basically.)

I saw this image on here. (I was gonna reblog it and talk about it but the og is a minor and would rather keep them anonymous.)

So the adults should already know the difference between fiction and reality since they have a fully developed brain, they should know what is right and wrong. I used my coping mechanism in art or writing. Please tell me what a better coping mechanism then proship?? I'll wait and see some results!! This coping mechanism doesn't make me want to go out and commit a crime because it's fucking disgusting, I've been writing problematic fanfics for two years almost turning three next year.

I know I sound like a broken record but I've been a victim of online predators years ago so two fictional characters of a minor x adult ship doesn't make you a predator, writing problematic fanfics or fanart doesn't make you a predator, finding a Loli or shota attractive doesn't make you a predator nor proship.

What makes you a predator if you're looking at any mommy vloggers/family vlogs of children and them eating food (more specifically fruits) or them wearing swimsuits or anything like that if you find that attractive, you're a pedophile. If you talk to someone for nudes or being sexually towards them and then you find out they're a minor while you are being inappropriate with them after knowing their age, you're a pedophile.

Looking for csem and saving it in your phone or hard drive, YOU'RE A PEDOPHILE!!! Using imagine of children vs picture of lolis/shota debates. I've seen these types of people, you're disgusting human being who download images of children on your phone as got ya moment, imagine how their parent's reaction seeing that on the Internet.

I had antis straight up shit on me for years for me writing cringe problematic fanfics or fanart, I'll say it doesn't make my trauma as an excuse, I feel uncomfortable whenever they say that I have these fantasies about children.. the most disturbing thing an anti told me online.

I'm just a woman that writes fanfic about anime characters why is it that people like antis always bring children or say shit like that.

I've seen people shit on a chibi review on twitter/X calling him a predator only to find out he's talking about a lewd anime panel. These sickos send threats, disrespect his disease brother and hack his da to post csem??? I don't understand people's mindset and getting so triggered easily when it comes to anime or fictional characters... That's not normal behavior, those people need to be held accountable for their actions and need to be sent to jail for that.

I generally feel like the future, I feel worried and concerned about it because these antis will normalize sending people csem or threats of rape or death and it'll become the norm.

[darklinaforever]

So, apparently, we Dramiones are proudly admitting how much we want to see Hermione getting raped by Draco.

And that's why this ship is the worst, because Drarry and Pansmione wouldn't admit that proudly.

So uh... wtf ?

I want to say that personally, and tell me if this is the case for you too, but I have never come across a Dramione shipper who did /said that.

Not even those who like Manacled, or indeed other fanfictions of this type.

And this is where I think there is a huge disconnect between the Dramione fandom in general, as well as the more specific part of it liking this kind of fanfiction / story, and precisely what the anti-Dramione people think of the ship and the fandom.

For them to enjoy reading these kinds of stories or writing them would be equal to this bullshit of proudly proclaiming how much we want and love to see Hermione get raped by Draco.

When it just has nothing to do with it.

Most of the time, those who enjoy reading or writing this, it's either for personal cathartic reasons, or exploring rape fantasy too, or simply enjoying delving into a super twisted and dark story that is generally stimulating on a psychological level. Also simply exploring a fascination with the morbid perhaps (and no, there's nothing weird about it, in any case, it's not weirder than the general fascination with serial killers). That or the fact that it allows the reader to feel valued and victorious by reading this type of story where the heroine (with whom there is precisely an identification) despite all the horrors that happens to her ends up happy and manages to help to reform the worst of the worst.

All in a reassuring way through fiction, all as a bonus with appreciated characters from an already existing story in particular, and this in a purely fanon context, which is doubly reassuring by the fact somewhere.

So no, liking to read this kind of problematic story, equivalent to Dark Romance, has nothing to do with proudly wanting /particularly liking Hermione to be raped by Draco (very harsh words with the obvious aim of degrading the shippers).

Fanfiction is a place that exists expressly to give free rein to our imagination, even the most disturbing and / or perverse parts (and this in a much freer way than writing a book made public with your name on the cover).

So putting a limit or taboo on what you can or cannot write on a ship is ridiculous.

Not liking it, yes, that’s no problem.

But putting a general stop on it because it would be too inappropriate, and would reveal things about consumers or writers is just stupid and disrespectful.

Also, it is not because these problematic fanfictions are very successful that they are representative of the entirety of what is done / and is loved in the Dramione fandom and his writings.

Quite simply because it is a fanon ship, with multiple possibilities to write that many people write every day.

It really doesn't make sense to simply take Dramione from this type of more dark fanfictions precisely in order to say that it's the most toxic ship in the Harry Potter universe, when it is, once again, a ship fanon with lots of other versions ! It's not a canon ship with an established and grounded dynamic and it never will be !

Acting like Dramione is just pure toxicity and the worst in the Harry Potter universe because of some successful problematic fanfictions is stupid, because those fanfictions, once again, do not 100% represent the ship and the fandom (for example, I'm not particularly into this type of very dark story).

They are just one facet among many others. A facet of which there is not even anything to be ashamed of in fact, because it is simply fiction. There is no problem in loving this kind of story and embracing it.

Plus, tons of people, like me, have been shipping Dramione since they were kids and reading fanfictions ever since. Do you think the kids who ship Dramione get involved in this type of fanfictions, or imagine this kind of scenario when they have Dramione in mind ? That they proudly want Hermione being raped by Draco ?! No. Of course not. Mostly, what we imagine, and what is also the most written generally is a redemption arc where Draco learns to be better and worthy of Hermione. That's all. Even if, yes, sometimes fanfiction with problematic characters can be part of it for some members of the fandom Dramione.

Frankly, I repeat, it's really ridiculous to judge a ship fanon on a single type of specific fanfictions, which of course, as if by chance, suits the hateful speeches of some people.

Like I said, it's baloney, and nothing is set in stone. If today, certain fanfictions with problematic characters are "the face of Dramione" for some and as some say, well maybe in a few years, other less problematic and even healthier stories could come and replace these success.

And at that point, how will the antis justify their hatred of the ship ?

Will they stay focused on the era when it was fanfiction with problematic characters that was most highlighted ? They would be quite capable of it. Or surely they will simply return to the still existing classic discourse on the canon relationship of the characters of Draco and Hermione to proclaim how bad it is to create fanfiction where they are in love with a beautiful relationship ?

After all, these types of extremely Dark fanfictions were not as present at one time and / or were much less represented / popular than today, however, that did not prevent Dramione from being hated with other types of arguments, all generally based on the canonical relationship of the characters while once again, we are on fanon / an alternative continuation from a certain point in the original story...

The truth is that all this is just another excuse to hate Dramione in such a way that it allows you to feel justified in spitting on the shippers by saying precisely such stupid things as, the part of Dramione fandom who love the concept of Dark Romance (or not by the way since they don't even seem to make the difference and put the entire Dramione fandom in the same basket of taste in terms of reading), would be proud of wanting Hermione to get raped by Draco, something other ships fandom doesn't do.

Like... really wtf ? How twisted do you have to be to spout this kind of insulting bullshit ?

And then, not to break these people's bubbles... but there are certainly Drarry fanfictions containing rape, maybe even for Pansmione too.

Since fanfiction has existed most fanon and even canon ships have gotten this kind of fanfiction at one time or another.

Seriously, as if other Harry Potter ships didn't also have problematic scenarios. As if it were only Dramione's own !

You really have to stop the bullshit after a while frankly about the fact that Dramione would be worse (specially when Tomione, who I also like by the way, exists !).

An all that for, once again, fanon ships or you can literally write the relationship however you want because it has no grounded / canon romantic dynamic !

Even if I think that the reason why Dramione has more stories highlighted on this side in recent years than the other ships (beyond the fact that there seems to be a spike in popularity around Dark Romance in general in recent years in the world of literature), it is also because the context of the status of the characters in the Harry Potter universe can best fit a Dark Romance scenario to exploit for those who also love this genre of literature in particular.

Not to mention that they are both very popular and interesting characters to varying degrees who could fit the trope of enemies to lovers by being put together, a trope which can already contain problematic aspects to varying degrees.

And once again, in the context of a universe like Harry Potter with the status of the characters, we can easily switch Dramione squarely into Dark Romance for those who are interested.

This kind of Dramione fanfiction does not exist simply because some of the Dramione shippers would strangely and out of pure perversity of a sick mind want to "see Hermione being raped by Draco in various ways". There is a logic behind the creation of these particular scenarios. We're not sure it's purely free.

But once again, it's not because the context of Dramione lends itself to Dark Romance, which many love and have really immersed themselves in for several years (because yes, I remind you that this type of story does not were not as popular written and represented several years ago as today), that everyone does it and therefore that the whole fandom is like that, including the ship itself, which once again I remind is fanon and therefore still has no established canonical romantic dynamic and we can do what we want with it !

And once again, maybe in a few years, the trend will reverse and much healthier stories from Dramione will replace the Dark Romance type hits of today.

Because a fandom always evolves over time, as does what people write and read.

Dramione has always had certain phases in the fanfiction genre. I remember the period when almost all of the most recommended Dramione fanfictions were fanfictions about Hermione and Draco's 8th year at Hogwarts as head boy. A type of Dramione still popular today, almost classic one could say.

And yet Dramione was just as hated as he is today. When I tell you that all this is just excuses for the haters !

Limit, they can talk about what a certain more or less broad and current part of the Dramione fandom prefers to read / write currently, all without also going into generalization and even less generalization full of judgment of hatred and negativeness, because like I said, there are no real problems or shame with these stories.

But in no case can you give a real genre label to the ship Dramione which once again is purely fanon.

But in short, I think you understand my overall point with this huge block.

Love the ships you want ! Write and Read what you want ! Long live to Dramione ship ; In all forms, past present and future !

[addicted-to-his-knife]

No but I agree with you, TZ is disgusting and as much as we love Repo I think we can all agree on that. In real life you must NEVER behave or touch minors in an inappropriate manner, hugs and all are fine especially if those minors are your family but some lines must NEVER be crossed. Even if a minor is asking you to get intimate, your job as the adult is to say no. TZ was weird for shipping his own character with a 17-year-old girl indeed. But if, say, a fan ships Grilo, it doesn't necessarily bother me, though personally I could only ship it if I aged up Shilo to be AT LEAST 22/23.

Because the thing is, a minor irl can't consent because they are a minor. A fictional minor can't consent because they don't exist - a fictional adult can't consent either. They do what we tell them to do when we write. They aren't real, fictional characters cannot give/withdraw consent. So you know, not my cup of tea, but at least no real child is harmed. That's why Luigi is also a good example! Murder is despicable, it's a literal crime. But Luigi and his victims aren't real, so we can go YASS KING STAB EVERYONE YOU'RE SO HOT and still fucking hate killers and p3dos irl. (And rapists like Pavi).

Another thing entirely would be someone writing a romantic Grilo fic and shoving it into my face without tagging it. Like I'm just not interested, I want friends/sibling-like Grilo not romantic/sexual Grilo! Don't do that pls xD Write what you want but pls tag it, you can trigger a lot of people by not letting them know what they're clicking on!

Sry I only post this now but:

Your 👏🏻 job 👏🏻 as 👏🏻 the 👏🏻 adult 👏🏻 is 👏🏻 to 👏🏻 say 👏🏻 no 👏🏻

Exactly that. That's basically where all problems start, because some adults are just selfish narcissistic predators who care about nothing but their own needs and minors can't contextualise the attention because they usually don't have the life experience to make out a creep. Because why shouldn't they believe "you're very mature for your age" and "you're different ergo better than others your age" since it makes them feel "special".

I also agree with you on the fictional aspect, which is why I CAN write problematic stuff without feeling guilty about it (I personally also don't like fanfiction about rl people, no matter how famous, but to each their own). And as I said, to me that small grey line was crossed when TZ started being a creep and it got that very real tinge which makes it impossible for me to see this as 100 per cent fictional (again, that's just me, if other people don't feel the same way, perfectly fine ^^).

Also tagging should be obligatory always. It's sad this still has to be said.

Thanks for sharing your opinion!