#tdp 4x04

[self-spaghettification]

purple eyes

[lunanightriderofthecove]

I love the detail of Soren going to join Callum on Pyrrah, so Rayla rides with Ezran, because he understands what Callum is feeling, as he reveals later in 4x06

[raayllum]

Take my heart. I'll just do it.

4x04 / 6x08

[its-leethee]

"...mages were his prey."

and what does the predator do with his prey, once he's cornered it, taunted it, finished playing with it? well--

he'll eat it.

[imminent-danger-came]

"TDP s4 was really good" truthers let us come together and join hands

[thethiefandtheairbender]

as a lifelong ATLA fan who narrowly had ATLA dethroned as my top show by The Dragon Prince steadily over the past 5 years, the similarities between the two have very little to do with the surface level parallels that get regularly drawn between them.

Like ATLA, TDP has Books for seasons and chapters for episodes, but unlike ATLA, which only touched on storytelling sparingly as a theme, TDP is obsessed with interrogating storytelling and history and the presence of unreliable, biased narrators throughout many of its episodes (most notably 2x05, 2x06, 3x06, 4x04, and 4x07 among them). Half of what you learn in the 1x01 intro ends up being a lie once you reach S3, with more being steadily deciphered.

Yes, TDP has different magics with people living under those umbrella terms... for the elves. Humans are coming culturally at things from a completely different angle, and the elves' connection to their primal sources are discussed philosophically in detail, informing their practices and their culture first hand, including the way they chafe against humans, who are arcanum-less. Many animals in the world are also connected to magic, which influences both their design and which ones get hunted for humans' more 'clever' solution in dark magic, including each other.

The core issue of the Puppetmaster, down to being a coercive magic formed by someone deeply resentful of their imprisonment? Said puppetmaster is the main endgame antagonist of the entire show with all of S4 onwards being exploring the ethics of controlling people against their will in various methods, and the entire show itself being a thematic battleground of fate (imprisonment) vs free will for virtually every single character.

Where ATLA mostly concerns itself timeline wise with ending the war, very little thought is shown by any of the characters as to what they'll do after the war. This isn't a problem (as it reflects the sheer domineering scope of the conflict) but even Zuko being firelord is only ever really addressed with 2.5 episodes left till the finale. TDP, meanwhile, ends its 'war' in s3 and s4 opens up with dealing with the old wounds festering between people with centuries of history, the struggles that come when people aren't able to let go and believe they're safe or mourn in a healthy manner, and the religious/cultural clashes that may occur when trying to integrate different groups of people.

TDP also has an evil father with a devoted daughter and a brother who eventually defects, but it explores the reality of an abusive parent who loves/will sacrifice for you and your right to leave regardless, even if that means leaving the sibling you truly deeply love and who loves you in turn. Which means that when you and your sibling are on opposite sides of a deep ideological conflict, it actually really fucking hurts bc we've seen first hand just how much they love each other and also how and why everything fell apart not in spite of that love necessarily, but also because of it.

Is this to say that TDP is a 1:1 with ATLA or that it's better? No, not at all, and the latter is subjective. I prefer TDP, but I think they're about on equal ground when you look at each show currently as a whole (although TDP has two seasons left to go).

But TDP takes a lot of what ATLA was doing thematically with some of its most interesting beats and then builds or expands upon them further. It talks further and more consistently about the cycles of violence; in many ways, Jack De Sena's character, Callum, begins the series largely where Sokka had ended (and he's not the most like Sokka anyway; very much his own thing); we get Faustian bargains and centuries' long grief and fucked up people who are trying both succeeding and failing at not doing fucked up things. There are antagonists, but it is very hard to actually label anyone at this point a straight up villain. Moral greyness is where the show starts, and it just continues from there.

That's not to say the show is nothing but dark and depressing - like ATLA, there's a steady thread of hope and humour even as the show gets steadily closer and closer to its 11th hour point - but the show is usually emotionally heavier. There's more blood and potentially disturbing imagery with body horror and on screen death. There's so much foreshadowing you basically can't go more than 5 minutes into any episode without having something that's going to come back around or be referenced again like 3-5 seasons later.

Just to be clear - TDP is like ATLA, but it's like ATLA in interesting ways beyond the more shallow surface level that usually gets attributed to it, while still very much being its own show and its own thing. And that is why I tend to recommend it to people who like ATLA.

Thank you and goodnight

(Also, the fandom doesn't have any ship wars, and the show is queer as fuck)

[thestarprimal]

current thoughts: tdp variant intro with claudia.

we already have viren, who is reaching toward the stars. we had callum in 4x04, whose attention is on the cube.

what if claudia had a variant intro, and she’s holding the corrupted sun staff, and she’s looking ahead with determination.

both viren and callum’s intros had them showing where their main focuses were. viren on the stars because of aaravos, callum on the cube because of its mystery. claudia could be looking ahead because that’s all she’s focused on.

[self-spaghettification]

tdp overarching themes (redemption etc)

What will happen when Ezran/Harrow’s narrative of love and Aaravos/Viren’s narrative strength meet, who wins?

Will it be possible for Ezran to win the dark mages over to let go of pain and end the cycle of violence? Or is death the only way to protect the world and his loved ones? Will Ezran have to learn to become stronger himself?

is it even possible to kill a startouch elf? oor to convince him to maybe not, like, conquer xadia?

i don’t have these answers but i diiiid compile a bunch of relevant shit

I kind of went through Harrow’s letter to Callum and added related quotes or moments that seemed relevant to the overarching themes discussed and how they stand on opposing sides

orange is harrow’s letter, read in 1x06

red is ezran’s speech, given in 4x03

these are the main voices but there’s also

pink is ibis in 4x03

black is zubeia in 4x04

purple is various aaravos quotes

pink is various viren quotes

both from 2x09, 3x05, 3x07, and 4x04

green is soren, janai, amaya and rayla briefly (4x03 & 4x08 & tdp trailer respectively)

“Soon you will both face a lie. The great lie of history.

“His name was Aaravos, and yes, he was a star. One of the great ones, respected and loved by all. Until we uncovered a long hidden treachery.”

Advisors and scholars will tell you that history is a narrative of strength.

“Search your heart. There’s something that you want very badly. But something or someone stands in your way.”

They will recount stories of the rise and fall of nations and empires. They will be stories of armies, battles and decisive victories.

“And this bright future will require us to conquer Xadia?”

But this isn't true strength. It's merely power.

“I can destroy them all! I have all the power I need!”

“If you want to say something to the Dragon Queen, you should say it to her face. her real face, that can bite you in two!”

“It hurts! I feel pain about this and I am angry!”

I now believe true strength is found in vulnerability...in forgiveness, in love.

“We all want peace and we all want love. But violence tests us!

In a twisted way it converts us to their cause.”

“You tried to win them over with loyalty and friendship but they ignored you. those who fail tests of love are simple creatures who deserve to be motivated by fear.”

“Because pain and loss feel so terrible inside. You want to hate. You want to hurt someone else. so what do we do?”

So, what is the plan? To fulfill your wishes, of course. Is your wish to rule Xadia? I wish for humanity to flourish. And it cannot flourish with a knife forever at its throat.

There is a beautiful upside down truth, which is that….

These moments of purest strength appear as weakness to those who don't know better.

“These are the champions you’ve gathered to try to stop me? They’re nothing but pathetic children!”

“How can we stop this cycle?”

Violence.

Loss.

Pain.

For a long time, I didn't know better.

“In the name of love, you may perform acts so unforgivable that you may never forgive yourself.”

Violence,

“You must take down the Dragon Queen and capture the baby dragon. Then you will have the attention of all the world, and the power to do what you want.”

“Bring terror to Del Bar, to Neolandia, to Evenere, and to Duren!”

Loss,

As I write this, the sun is setting while Moonshadow assassins prepare to end my life. A few months ago, I took my revenge on Xadia. Tonight, it is their turn.

“I am going to destroy it, before it can be used to do any more harm!”

Pain,

“Every great crisis the world faced seemed the work of some ingenious and powerful leader, but in each case, it was secretly Aaravos, whispering in their ear.”

“Aaravos. A startouch elf responsible for more pain, death, and suffering than anyone else in history.”

“I am not a killer.

But if you seek to return that staff to its true owner, you pose a greater danger to this world than I can allow.”

You must die.”

stop! i just want to yell stop. but that’s not enough. it won’t work.”

“I do not mean to be cruel. But we must be ready to sacrifice. Even the things we love.”

“Well played. She will be a valuable asset.”“She is not an asset. She is my daughter.”

I ask you and your brother to reject history as a narrative of strength and instead have faith that it can be a narrative of love.

“I think about a positive vision. a faith we can all share, that we might build a future together in hope. a future where we can be safe with each other. but… it’s not that easy. or simple.”

“Everything I do, and everything I ask of you, is for the future of humanity.”

“The whining child king, in over his head and he knows it.”

because people are still hurting and they are still angry. we can’t ignore that, or pretend it will go away.

“Oh, my time is inevitable.”

somehow, we have to hold it all in our hearts at the same time. we have to acknowledge the weight of the pain and loss, but open our eyes and allow ourselves to hope and maybe forgive and love again.

“You cannot have your cake and eat it too.”

We have to give today’s children a chance to inherit a future filled with peace.

“I've tried to be selfless as a king, but as a father, I have a selfish wish. And that is for you and Ezran to be...free. Reject the chains of history. Do not let the past define your future, as I did. Free yourself from the past. Learn from it, understand it, then let it go. Create a brighter future from your own hearts and imagination.”

Destiny is a book you write yourself.

To give them that, we have to hold pain and love in our hearts at the same time.

“There is an aching pain mixed with love that you feel in these moments.”

“Just have two cakes.”

“This is called A Song of Love and Loss.”

I'm proud of you. And I love you unconditionally.

“If the fallen star is a danger the whole world will face, this is a chance to solve our problems together.”

“How do you kill a startouch elf?”

idk man. what if aaravos doesn’t have to die? what if it’s not too late for him to be redeemed? this is kind of a guilty pleasure hope of mine but still. the dragon prince is a story of letting go of generational trauma and past pain, of letting go of pain and differences, most importantly, of letting go of a narrative of strength, of a strong katolis, a strong lux aurea, a strong empire over xadia, and believing in a story of love and hope. if there’s anything that could drastically change things its the guy with a lot of power and a lot of ambition and pain ready to cause a whole cycle of pain all over again. if there’s anything that would drastically change things it would be changing his heart. and if theres anyone who can change it, it’s the kid who feels the most for him.

[lunanightriderofthecove]

I wonder when Callum decided to not wear the scarf anymore. He's still wearing it in the Inheritance illustrations. It's highly possible it reminded him too much of Rayla, so it was stowed away. And when Rayla returns he starts wearing it again 😊

[lunanightriderofthecove]

Was grumpernickel named that before or after only Bait liked it? 🤣

[lunanightriderofthecove]

What is it with the design of the female archdragons? Why do they all look gorgeous?

Luna Tenebris literally looks partially like a moth 😍

[lunanightriderofthecove]

Eating while the being comes out of the chrysalis was a bad idea 😖

[lunanightriderofthecove]

Soren's cautiousness is so understandable, considering his experience with (mostly dark) magic.

[lunanightriderofthecove]

Zym riding on Zubeia's head is so adorable 😍

[lunanightriderofthecove]

Was the breaking of the mirror possible the whole time? Could he theoretically have done this as early as s1? 🤔

[lunanightriderofthecove]

What a shame that Zubeia's storm didn't block the sunlight all the way down to the bottom of the Storm Spire, preventing Claudia and Co. from releasing the being.