#supernatural season infinite

[weanwinwhester]

I love you …

[incesthemes]

soulless sam should have drunk demon blood. it's a logical means to an end and makes him infinitely stronger which in turn makes him a better hunter, and he doesn't have anything stupid like morality or a conscience to get in his way. also it means that when sam got his soul back with no memory of how he got there he'd have to deal with sudden and inexplicable addiction and withdrawal, and of course the guilt and shame that comes with it

[the--last-great-american-dynasty]

nah i don’t fuck with this creepy kid shit

[bi4bisamjess]

God not to restate the obvious but supernatural’s ending was such bogus bullshit that it makes my head explode. Just. The Winchester brothers have experienced death. They’ve escaped it too many times for it to have any weight or meaning. Why should Dean stay dead? There’s no real reason. What makes this time stick other than the end of the narrative?

The Winchester brothers have experienced death. They’ve had plenty of grief and tragedy. There is no narrative. God is dead. Why not have them live? Why not have them be happy?

[catsconflictscopicsandchamomile]

Hey. Ares. Dipshit.

that's not your coat

that's not your FUCKING coat

you stole that. and now you're going to give it to me.

and then you're going to tell me where he is and what you've done with him

and maybe, JUST MAYBE

I'll consider not pounding you into a grease stain on the sand

how many parts of your human form can I remove before the rest of you dissolves back to Olympos?

*flips open pocketknife* ...I'm willing to find out.

[kazalmilk]

The idea that dbd might be dead on arrival is so devastating because it is PEAK fandom sourcing. I haven’t seen anything regarding renewal, and the initial viewership was disappointingly low according to a bunch of articles.

I did my first watch through in late May, and i’ve been hooked since. It has infinite potential for whacky cases and more ghost hijinks and i would be so incredibly sad if we didn’t get to see more. To me the series feels unfinished, so I am hopeful that we will get a S2, especially considering that it is connected to The Sandman (which I have yet to watch. whoops.)

Other popular fantasy series like Supernatural didn’t start growing in popularity until later seasons, however Netflix doesn’t know how to handle their YA shows and tends to drop them after one season.

The difference between DBD and Lockwood is that Netflix picked up the show from HBO, which may give them more of an incentive to continue producing it. And if not maybe a different company will do us right.

The characters after just one season feel so real and fleshed out, which i feel is the main appeal of the show, at least for me. It is so camp and so heartwarming and action packed what more could you want? Probably 50/50 on whether or now we see more of the ghost boys. Praying for a season 2 please please please

[macabresymphonies]

You guys this season is 100% about items and artifacts, this episode confirms it. It's like SCP or Control in that regard - oddities (possibly prototypes for philosopher's stone) gathered and categorized by The Magnus Institute Manchester.

This is much different from TMA where it was very specifically about powers affecting people - items they used (artifacts and leitners) were mentioned to almost always be used improperly and their endgoal was to corrupt and twist person who wielded them and people around them, they weren't instruments on their own, they were extensions of their Entity the same way an avatar is. This is not the case here because of two people specifically: Needles and The Dice guy.

The thing about avatars was that no matter if you were afriad of them or not their corrupting power and presence always affected you in some way and they themselves were some way supernaturally in contact with their Entity - this is very common Lovecraftian concept, trying to get close to those "Gods" corrupts you and warps you, subconsciously making you do their bidding thus giving you this supernatural "confidence" in what you do.

Now look at Needles, we laughed at how he couldn't make the dispacher scared and got thrown off when he realized it, but it makes sense - outside of being made of needles there is no paranormal infulence helping him, he's just unwell. Same goes for The Dice guy, he even mentions trying to "become" a type of person we would expect from a TMA avatar, the trenchoat fedora stranger making people roll bad luck dice, but the moment things go south he ditches the dice and dies at the end due to his own stupidity, can you ever imagine a halfway-there Avatar doing such a thing? All this, because they are NOT Avatars: nobody is guiding them, nobody is whispering instructions in their ears and they do not actually feed of the mayhem they are spreading.

It's the items, they themselves are victims of somebody spreading them for data - this goes back to my "it's about alchemists making prototypes of a philosopher's stone" theory. All of those people are either test subjects for specific items/locations (like class-D personel in SCP) or test subjects themselves, transformed by somebody. This also goes back to the incident at Hilltop the volunteers were a project in themselves, self duplicating each one with an odd item, this was an attempt to apply infinite monkey theorem to philisopher's stone creation.

[givehimthemedicine]

lumax as a premature relationship

first: I don't mean any of this like "the show shouldn't have done it". what I mean is that with lumax, ST is telling the story of a relationship whose flaw (if it can be summarized into just one) is that it happened too soon.

probably out of comparison to milkvan, and the delay of canon byler, lumax gets lauded as the wholesome ship based on true friendship that slowly blossomed into romance. but that's not accurate. Lucas is a good friend to Max, but Max isn't to Lucas, and it certainly wasn't slow.

even platonic lumax should've been a slow simmer but was a speed run

the newly-introduced Max has high walls, which suggests anyone who wants to get close to her will have to take a slow approach. but then before you know it, Lucas is just kinda. in there.

yes, it takes him most of the season to earn Max's trust, which sounds long, but isn't. the first time Lucas and Max ever spoke was Halloween, Wednesday. the arcade I think is Saturday, and the junkyard is the day after that? so she broaches the darkest subject in her life... 4 days after meeting him. with like. zero prompting. "that fog looks cool! btw my parents are divorced and..."

Max's walls are only so high because of how badly she wants to let someone in, so it's understandable that the right person could get in relatively fast. I have no problem with that trope. sucker, in fact. but opening up here was CRAZY for someone with huge trust issues:

you have to be careful who you confide in about abuse because if your confidant mishandles it so that your abuser finds out you told, things could get MUCH worse. she simply doesn't know Lucas well enough to know he won't accidentally put her in more danger (which actually he already did: by following her out of the arcade after she said not to, and again by showing up at her house).

this talk was moments before Max saw a demodog, meaning she's gone along with the supernatural story without any evidence. I'm not criticizing that; she's a kid who likes fantasy, wants friends really bad, and isn't above playing make-believe in order to be included. what bothers me is she confided in Lucas about her abuse BEFORE seeing a shred of proof this entire outing wasn't the elaborate prank she feared it was. in the infinitely more realistic scenario that these boys are just messing with her, and will ditch her after they've had their laugh, this could so easily have led to a much darker situation at home.

the timing of that conversation was so objectively, stupidly unsafe that I'd call it bad writing if it was an isolated incident. but, self-preservation instincts so terrible they can sometimes be better explained as elf-sabotage - that's just classic Max.

romantic lumax seemed kind of forced because as a new kid in town, all Max wanted was friendship

the snow ball is about a month after everything else. Max and Lucas don't seem to be a couple yet. it doesn't even look like they're dates. so to kiss him suddenly felt like another jump way ahead. he sure looked surprised.

I guess a month is a while when you're 13, but the romantic aspect felt rushed to me because the whole season is full of indications that Max only wanted friendship. and that's made super clear by her constant focus on group friendship. her dialogue throughout 2 is consistently group-oriented.

her behavior is too: as of Halloween, Max has Lucas and Dustin in her pocket. if she's crushing on Lucas, or enjoys attention from boys in general, why on earth would she go out on such a limb seeking Mike's acceptance after she already has what she wants?

because that's not what she wants most. she wants to belong to the whole group, like she keeps saying. (I'm going to ramble much more about this theme in another post soon)

Max continues to prioritize friendship / group activities even after lumax becomes a thing

a few examples:

lumax's idea of "romantic time" can include their friends, in contrast to milkvan prioritizing alone time.

Max (and Lucas) drop 1 on 1 time (washing out his eyes is a scene that's an easy kiss opportunity for your standard tv teen couple) in favor of a long trek in the sun to build a radio tower so Dustin can talk to a girl she doesn't believe exists. Max and Lucas do skip off together, but again in contrast to El and Mike who leave early to make out, they only leave because it's time to go home.

^that's the same Max who tagged along and earnestly participated in armoring up a junked schoolbus to fight monsters without any proof.

despite downsizing for trailer living, she kept the Michael Myers mask in memory of the first night she felt like a part of the party.

unlike others who yell for their loved one from the UD, Max calls out for Lucas and Dustin.

her life-saving montage includes many platonic as well as romantic moments.

alright killjoy, if Max only wanted friendship, how's it make sense that SHE initiated all the romantic stuff?

ST is not a universe where grabbing someone's hand in a tense moment is necessarily an indicator of romance. Dustin said he could feel "the electricity" when Lucas and Max held hands on the bus, but then, Dustin also ships stobin.

the kiss, I could actually come closest to calling a writing misstep because.. it wasn't written. it feels forced because it was, as a last-minute unscripted thing - not because the Duffers decided it fit Max's characterization, but purely because they thought it was funny how uncomfortable Sadie was with filming her first kiss. <- this interview is actually so gross.

but, that kiss is canon regardless of how I feel about bts lore, and it fits and it works in the sense that this is the story of a flawed relationship. Max initiated it despite not being ready for it, simply because she thought she was.

Max's childhood fears about bad relationships have made her overeager to prove a good relationship can exist. so the first time a boy is actually kind to her, she's like OH SEE LOVE IS REAL I DONT HAVE TO GROW UP TO BE MY MOM LET'S GOOOO and hurls herself into something she's not mature enough to realize she's too immature to execute well.

if that kiss was so misguided, how's it still Max's happiest memory?

there's no conflict there.

she grew up around terrible relationships and probably feared she was destined for the same, so to find a nice boy like Lucas must have given her such incredible relief and hope. in her young mind, that dance was her happily ever after. you never forget how good a moment like that felt, regardless of how well reality lived up to it.

that said. can I point out that reality hasn't lived up to it?

Max choosing the moment lumax began, as opposed to any moment from the year-and-change of its actual contents... might be less good the more you think about it. like. she doesn't describe this as her favorite memory. she says it's the time she was happiest. in other words, she hasn't been as happy before or since.

that kiss marked lumax's moment of greatest potential, which I think is what made Max so happy. not the relationship she's actually gotten so far.

mmkay and then what do I do about the fact Max STILL wants to date Lucas?

once again, Max is the one who makes things overtly romantic by doodling a picture of them holding hands. but as you may know from my recent lumax diatribe, I don't see how the ship is seaworthy at present.

so the top layer of my interpretation is that Max is still operating under the same ideas that caused her to kiss Lucas in the first place. she's not thinking about how it'll work; she just wants. this is fast-forward Max again. it's a similar moment of hope to the snow ball kiss. romance with Lucas once again looks like her lifeline out of an awful situation.

the layer underneath that is less fluffy:

Max might've accepted this invite in as much an "I might die tonight so it won't hurt to make some lighthearted plans for the future, he did just save my life so why hurt his feelings for no reason" way as anything else. I don't mean her affection is fake. she just might consider the movie date a pipe dream.

consider that her attic monologue happens only a couple minutes after the doodle, and shows that her suicidal ideations are barely behind her. like, the wanting-to-die part is just bait at this point I think, but the deserving-to-die sentiment still feels fresh and sincere.

consider that Max so recently scolded Lucas for assuring her things would work out because that's "never true" in her life... and now here she is drawing a doodle of things working out.

sure, this could be a girl who's thinking "yes!!! ✅ Attending Event! I genuinely expect to be alive, deserving of love, and in the mood for romance this Friday!" but to me, it honestly seems more like a girl thinking "God, I wish."

btw the doodle would've been perfect as the advent of romantic lumax, imo

if lumax had grown slowly out of a healthy mutual friendship, Max really could be ready right here.

imagine: s2, Max earns her place in the party, but to grow especially close friends with Lucas takes a year; the bus talk happens in s3. we can tell their friendship is starting to want to become more. depression interferes in s4. but their bond helps pierce the fog, and they protect each other from Vecna/Jason.

you hit me with the movie doodle after THAT buildup? adorable, precious, showstopping. at that point, that date could've been their happily ever after. <- this is what people think it is already!

lumax is one of many flawed relationships (and that's okay)

another sign that lumax is supposed to be flawed is its place in the larger pattern of flawed relationships: parallels with other characters and ships.

Max and El in particular share a similar stumble into their relationships: both bond with the first boy to treat them with kindness, and throw themselves into a relationship that actually costs them the friendship they should've had with that boy.

and all the party relationships illustrate different friendship/romance progressions:

lumax is the story of a romance that should've been a friendship first/also and isn't going to succeed til it gets this right

byler will be the story of a romance that was a friendship first and will succeed by remaining one also (or so the themes and patterns suggest)

mileven is the story of a romance that should've been a friendship instead.

literally all of ST's relationships, including the endgame romances, have flaws that are intentional and meant to be explored. in fact that's like... most of what the show is. and most fans can readily admit that about all of them, until they get to lumax, which they think is uniquely meant to be perfect and is flawed only in its writing. this view strips lumax from its broader context and ignores many lessons it's there to teach us about ST's overarching themes.

understand: my aim in pointing out lumax's flaws is not to persuade anyone to enjoy it less or stop shipping it!

flaws don't mean you aren't allowed to like a thing. if anything, it makes them way more interesting to discuss, and more compelling to root for/against. we don't have to pretend our characters are perfect in order to enjoy, ship, and learn from them.

more on all this coming soon in another post exploring different types of love in the Max plot!

[uroboros-if]

For Twine I recommend:

- Our Life: Now and Forever (It's complete w 3 DLCs for Cove's Route + a DLC for Baxter and Derek)

- Our Life 2 (currently only a Demo)

- Andromeda 6 (Not complete but already quite long!)

- Throne of Ashes (dark, but beautifully written)

- Superstition Seasons 1-3 (very long w amazing writing)

- Infinite Stars (amazing writing, still not completed yet but you already get lots of content)

- Wayfarer (amazing writing and worldbuilding!)

- Touchstarved (so far mainly a demo but already lots to read)

- A Tale of Crowns (beautiful worldbuilding and Story, w different routes and romances to explore)

- Speaker by Speakergame

- When Twilight strikes

- Hybrid by HeartForge

- The Spirited: Origins

- Atollo

-Blooming Panic (Fully finished w four routes, Discord Server Setting, making it quite unique. Very wholesome game tbh)

- You Live and Fern

Other IFs I recommend (some complete, some demos):

- Mind Blind by @mindblindbard

- Triaina Academy by @leo-interactive-fiction

- Honor amongst Thieves by @leoneliterary

- The Northern Passage by @northern-passage

- Night Market (full Demo is out, had me bawling my eyes out) by @night-market-if

- Defiled Hearts by @defiledheartsblog

- Wolfsbane by @wolfsbane-if

- College Tennis & Merry Crisis by @allieebobo

- Golden and Before the dusk by @milaswriting

- Chop Shop by @losergames

- Signal Hill by @signalhill-if

- Virtue's End by @virtues-end (has undergone re-writing so the demo is a bit shorter but already beautifully written)

- Sentinel by @nyehilismwriting

- The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes by @doriana-gray-games

- The King's Hound by @the-kingshound

- The Exile by @exilethegame

- Fields of Asphodel by @chrysanthemumgames

- Keeper of the Sun and Moon by @keeperofthesunandmoon (2 completed games, third in the works)

- Bastard of Camelot and Supernaturals in New York by @llamagirl28

- The Nameless by @parkerlyn

- all the IFs by @hpowellsmith

- Eight Years Revolution by @eight-years-revolution

- Vapolis by @vapolis

- Blood Moon by @barbwritesstuff (and her other works too!)

- OFNA: Birds of a Feather by @ofna

- A Mage Reborn by @mage-parivir

- Citadel - A medical romance by @bouncyballcitadel

- Buried Love by @buriedlove

- Bodycount by @bodycountgame

- Devilscreek Ballad by @devilscreekballad

- The Fernweh Saga by @lacunafiction

- Eye of the Moon by @eyeofthemoongame

- Novaturient by @kalorphic

- The Soul Stone War Series by @intimidatingpuffinstudios

- Mind Games: Trepidation by @bottlecaprabbitgames

- Greenwarden by @fiddles-ifs

These are just some that I can think of and that I really like but for any IF Recommendation Lists you can also go check out @interact-if, it's a directory blog here on Tumblr!!😊

Thank you so much for all these suggestions! 🥹 (Although I am pretty sure all Our Life, Andromeda 6, and Infinite Stars are ren'py than Twine, which is okay since my family member loves VNs/otome as well!)

I've heard of almost all these things!! The only ones new to me, aside from the VNs, is Wolfsbane, Vapolis, Citadel, and Mind Games: Trepidation, so I will keep a particular eye out for those!! :)

Thank you so much for sending all these great suggestions aaaa 🥺💕 I'll also have much to try out myself!!

[ineffabildaddy]

i know this may be obvious to a lot of people, but i thought it was worth saying anyway: i love the good omens fandom because it encourages contribution more than any other popular fandom i've been in.

i'm incapable of being a casual fan of anything. it's just not in my nature. i've been in fandom spaces just over a decade - fandoms related to musicians, books, films and tv shows - and yet i've never been in a fandom that captures, creates, analyses, jokes, and just talks more than this one.

in most of the fandoms i've been in, there's a lot of passive consumption of fan content, which is obviously great and we all do it, but in the good omens fandom, that doesn't seem to make up the majority of our behaviour. in fact, when i got back on tumblr for the first time in 7 years after watching season 2, i had a look around at what the fandom was doing for a day or two and my first thought was: oh god, what if i've got nothing to say? what if i've got nothing to add that hasn't already been added? i immediately felt that i wouldn't truly be part of things if i didn't get stuck in.

if i'm fixated on something or particularly enjoying it at one time, i might wake up in the morning or pick up my phone/laptop thinking, i want to see more, hear more, learn more about this thing. that's still the case with good omens, but with the addition of, how can i contribute today? how can i bring something to the fandom, how can i connect with it, how can i consistently encourage and support the people in it? and that's all because of how artistic, analytical, poetic, humorous but above all enthusiastic all of you are.

the truth is, i'm not at all a confident person. i've got a film degree, i've done stand-up comedy and i've written comedy sketches, i was a popular fanfiction writer for years (hi supernatural fans), and i've shared poetry, too. so, i have got experience in things that could make my contributions to fandom spaces worthwhile (not that you need any particular achievements under your belt). yet usually, the fact that people are doing things that i'm doing infinitely better than me puts me off the idea of doing them at all. so, oftentimes i don't do them, or if i do i put them down immediately and keep them private.

i'm still very much experiencing that feeling since becoming active in the good omens fandom, precisely because there's so much talent and dedication here, but i'm trying to ignore it because it feels like everyone who wants to say something is genuinely valued - especially since people who think differently about aspects of the book and show aren't actually fighting with each other or obsessed with proving they're right, which is quite rare in my experiences of fandoms.

it's been really really refreshing to become an active part of this fandom and i do hope it remains that way as more time elapses since season 2 was released. i have a feeling it will because we've all chosen one of the most wonderful stories of our time to engage with, and the fans' love for it was and is taken more seriously by terry, neil, david and michael than we ever could've hoped for.<3

[feroshgirlsims]

Chapter 7.3 - You Can't Go Home

As they filter off the train, the smell of iron gets further away and Akira finally begins to relax.

He asks her a ton of questions, partly because he's curious and partly because he wants to keep the focus off himself. Alice is in the middle of talking about her class when her body goes rigid.

Akira scans for a threat but comes up empty. Train stations are generally pretty clear of supernatural creatures, except low-level spellcasters and baby vampires at night. They aren’t much use when you can transportalate, turn into a bat, or run for miles in wolf form. And the fae avoid them altogether. 

“You good?” 

She flinches when he reaches for her hand. “I-I’m fine,” Her smile doesn’t quite reach her eyes. “Do you smoke? Weed, I mean, not cigarettes. I…I think I’m gonna smoke. Do you wanna come with me?”

“I thought you said you had to turn this assignment in,” he reminds her.

She stares across the platform, but he still can’t figure out what she’s looking at. 

“I’ll do it later. And you don’t have to come. That was weird of me to peer pressure you,” her laugh comes out high-pitched and wrong, “You're probably busy. I’m good. I’m gonna go. And you’ll go, and I’ll just see you later.”

She's babbling and her hands are shaking. There is no universe where he just leaves her like this.

“Yeah, I smoke," he takes her hand and leads her to the exit. "And I got time. No classes, remember?”

Akira has been to the Commons a few times (for creeper reasons), but he's never climbed the tower. The air is especially crisp, but Alice doesn't seem bothered by it.

Despite resisting earlier, he finds himself wishing she would extract some promise from him—some commitment to keep him tied to her. It's a terrible idea. He knows better. Akira has always been careful not to break one of the rules he’d learned by brute force.

“This is a shit weed,” he coughs.

“Hey!” Alice playfully points an accusatory finger, “I invite you to my secret perch and share my paltry stash, and you insult me?”

“You need a new dealer if this is your stash.”

“And a new bank account!” She laughs. “Try to chillax, my dude; you are working against the medicinal benefits.”

He tries. His lungs fill, but it takes three more rounds of coughing before he evens out. Alice, meanwhile, is a professional. She barely coughs, though she's had twice as much as him. He's not even sure she's high.

"Why photography?" he asks when she joins him on the bench.

"Most of the time, I get asked about painting; no one even thinks about photography."

He shrugs, "Your focus isn’t Fine Arts. Why am I gonna ask you about something you don’t do? You want me to guess?" When she nods, he waves a hand across the sky, pretending to paint a picture. "Art lets you remake the world in a more pleasing image, which is kind of nice because the world is shit. But you do photography because you want the shitty stuff upfront. No lies. You'd rather tango with the truth."

She straightens, suddenly alert. "Maybe. Kind of. But photography is also lies. All you do when you snap a picture is capture a moment in time. You can still tell yourself a story about the emotion you saw or what really happened. It's just a different kind of lie from painting."

The weed is definitely kicking in, but he likes her explanation.

"So what are you studying?" she asks.

Direct questions are the hardest to dodge. Especially now when he feels like he’s floating a hundred feet in the air. "I'm studying nothing," he says honestly. "I just follow what interests me."

"Why?"

"Because I have a lot of time." Infinite, actually, if he kept his head attached to his body and didn't end up on the wrong side of a curse.

"If I had time, that's what I'd do too. And catch up on back seasons of 7 Wild Dates."

Akira laughs, "Stop. I changed my mind. That show is moving to the bottom of my watch list."

“Don’t be mean!” Alice sticks out her tongue, "That's quality programming you're missing."

They smoke more and talk about nothing, which feels like talking about everything because Alice leaps from topic to topic. She knows a little about a vast number of subjects, like knowledge for her is a series of wading pools and she's just hopping from one body of water to another.

It's how Akira operates too. Once he gets the gist of something, he's ready to move on.

“Tell me one thing about you so you can stop accusing me of hanging out with a stranger," she says, "Where are you from?”

A flash of pink sky. 

A veil that never seems to part.

A home he can’t get back to.

The yearning is so real he jolts. “What if I told you that nothing about me or my life is what it seems? And because I don’t want to lie to you, you’re probably gonna find I won’t answer all your questions. Maybe any of them.”

Alice thinks for a minute. “I guess I’d say tell me what you can, not what you can’t.”

Akira wants to praise her wordplay. He wants to kiss her. He does neither.

“I love horror movies,” he confesses, “When I was like, 10, I snuck into the Moonlight Massacre Marathon at the theater downtown, and I was fuckin’ hooked.” 

The whole story comes tumbling out, even the part about Titania being a little shit and ratting him out to their parents. Alice laughs and complains about her step-sibling, and Akira viciously guards every drop of information she shares with him.

“I like horror movies too. If I throw in Moonlight Massacre II, will that elevate 7 Wild Dates on your watch list?”

His phone buzzes with a reminder about tonight’s job. He gets to his feet. “Next time,” he tells her.

“You promise?”

A promise is a dangerous thing. 

—A binding thing. 

A vow. 

No promises. 

Akira nods, “Yeah, I promise.”

PREV | NEXT

(Part 3 of 4)

[weanwinwhester]

I had my angel blade?

[jidem]

The whole season becomes infinitely funnier when you remember that it's been two days for Arthur. He has killed two people and fully accepted the existence of the supernatural. It's been two days

[readandwritesilver]

wwdits spoilers

if u disagree that's okay and i see you and i hear you however i fully don't think being canon was ever nandermo's future. there were a few things about the finale that i didn't like generally but nandermo isn't one of them. both these characters are so complex and maybe if we're talking about how going back the last 2-3 seasons should have been strictured differently then yeah sure there are definitely ways the story could have been told where some kind of definitive romantic conclusion made sense but at some point we're just talking about a different show.

yes i thought the plotline with nandor and the guide was really weird. yes i wish last season and especially this season had the emotional intensity and serious moments/plots of seasons past. but even if both those things were true i still don't think oh look we confessed our love now we are kissing yayyyy was the ending they deserved😭😭 seeing people comparing it to like supernatural or whatever other [insert queerbait here] just. idk i feel the pain that is being expressed and i understand deeply the place that it is coming from but i think calling nandermo queerbait is very misguided. those characters are both explictly queer. and they explicitly care about eachother a lot. they are also both explicitly not in a place for that kind of ending to be a legitimately satisfying conclusion.

the whole point of the finale is that life is going to go on (literally) infinitely for these characters. all the vampires are going to be there for a very long time. guillermo has grown exponentially in the last six years and while he doesn't know exactly what he wants to do with himself, he has a much clearer picture of who he is in the first place and we can feel sure he's going to make descisions according to that. nandor literally says to him when they're leaving canon capital, you're not just a human anymore, you can't ever just go back to that life, and he's right. they are both going to live their lives, and sometimes they'll be together and sometimes they won't, and eventually maybe they'll figure out something that works between them and maybe they won't.

i love nandor and guillermo together. i have written i think around 40,000 words just on the subject and made countless more posts on here. this isn't about the quality of them as a pairing, it's about telling a story, and i just don't think that was the story wwdits needed to tell in order to have a good conclusion.

tldr i think season six had a lot of sloppy moments and there are a lot of things about the season as a whole that i found disappointing, however nandermo not going canon wasn't one of them

[chubphoe-linkclick]

Link Click Superpower Mechanics: Time Travel and How to Change the Past

and why neither Cheng Xiaoshi nor Lu Guang can do it alone

Tl;dr: the past CAN be changed, but you have to know the secret cheat codes to do so because the cause-effect relationship of events is mad complicated and conditional on borderline random factors. Only Lu Guang's supernatural observer powers can see these 'cheat codes' to safely direct Cheng Xiaoshi's actions to end up at the correct state. Moreover, Cheng Xiaoshi's autonomy when diving allows new possibilities to occur in the past that would otherwise have been impossible.

In Season 2 Episode 2, we see Lu Guang use his powers on all the camera feeds in the hospital and it gives a node-link graph visual in the background as his powers activate along with the more concrete visual of the hospital, CXS and QL's locations (presumably), and the person they're tracking. This graph representation in the background could actually be a hint on how Lu Guang's powers work, and it could explain why he talks about death as 'unchangeable nodes.' It's not an unusual way to think about things, but maybe there is a reason he uses the word "node" specifically.

Maybe the way Lu Guang experiences his powers is like an insanely complicated graph with multiple paths and outcomes that then also move in a bizarre chronological way, rather than seeing specific events unfold on a simple and neat line or a tree of possible events and outcomes. [Based on the visual below, the graph that Lu Guang sees is cyclic i.e. not a tree, so you can go around in circles without changing the outcome if you're not careful even if the actual events change: the meaningful causality is missing.]

If timelines are actually graphs, this affects how we can interpret how timelines work because it essentially bundles actions together in nodes, which is much more limited than allowing a near-infinite combination of any actions and outcomes. It also means that moving from Point A to Point B via Action X could be conditional on factors unforeseeable in real time (or unrealistic to account for in real time) because they've been bundled together in these nodes.

This fits with what we've seen of the missions so far and fits with Season 2's themeing of unchangeable fate while explaining why Cheng Xiaoshi couldn't change events when he dived by himself. Lu Guang to direct Cheng Xiaoshi to choose the correct series of action-bundles for a specific outcome, since which actions are bundled together isn't clear in real time as the actual timeline changes.

Okay, but couldn't we know this while using the regular framing of time as a line?

Maybe (?), but-

Thinking of time as a timeweb rather than a timeline explains more about Lu Guang's experience as well as why he does what he does and keeps Cheng Xiaoshi on such a short leash without explanation: it's just an insane amount of information that's hard to comprehend let alone explain to fucking Cheng Xiaoshi.

It tells us about Lu Guang's predictive abilities when looking at the 12 hour time frame of a photo, since he can see branches of possible actions and outcomes that are quite different from what actually happened (something that'd be impossible if he's just seeing the raw events of a photograph).

This explanation also explains why they're able to change the past without rewriting the present: because the critical path from Point A to Point B wasn't changed.

This also tells us that Cheng Xiaoshi's powers opens up new possibilities that Lu Guang could not see on his own (cough cough end of S2). Consider when Lu Guang couldn't tell what would happen if Cheng Xiaoshi won the basketball game: because it was a section of the graph that was never supposed to exist. Lu Guang can (likely) only see nodes that were realistically possible to occur in the original timeline. So Cheng Xiaoshi's influence can completely disrupt his ability to read events because it forcibly creates a series of nodes/action-bundles that were not supposed to exist thus forcing Lu Guang to re-use his ability from scratch, re-expend the energy to read a photo's timeweb, and completely recalibrate his planning to make sure Cheng Xiaoshi stays safely on course (which also takes time).

There are likely future implications that we're unaware of and need to be considered. For example, the fact that CXS, QL and Xiao Ma are all represented as nodes in his view could be used to work backwards on the limitations of his powers and the knowledge he's able to glean from them.

Suddenly Lu Guang's controlling attitude when they're diving makes a lot more sense, and I know I'd be pissy with Cheng Xiaoshi too if I were him.

[ananke-xiii]

Rowena and the thick, bloody umbilical cord between choices and faults.

In a previous post of mine I’ve explored a little bit how Mary and Kelly represent a sort of “missed opportunity” for, respectively, Sam and Jack.

At the beginning of s13 Sam resents the fact that he hasn’t been proactive in seeking to create a relationship with his mother and now that she’s (presumably) gone he doesn’t want to deal with that reality. He had wasted his second chance. Jack, on the other hand, never even had a first opportunity to begin with but, unlike Sam, has experienced a sense of unity with his mother so extreme that one of the first things that he tells Sam is that he was his mother(!!!).

S13 reinforces the Mother-Son symbolism because, after Jack’s birth, a rift is opened in space (apparently not in time?): Kelly stays (dead, rip girl I love you) on one side of it while Mary crosses it and finds herself in Apocalypse World. To make things even more clear, this is no random parallel universe: this is the alternate reality where Mary didn’t deal with Azazel. So mothers and their choices/faults are a central theme in this season. Or, well, more or less.

To complete the mothers’ trimurti or, better, tridevi we’re missing the final mother, the destroyer who is, of course, Rowena. It’s therefore quite apt that Rowena reaches her highest potential this season and even confronts Death. What motivates her in an interesting blend of (missing)love and (lacking)power. Lucifer is as part of her story as Kelly’s and Mary’s. Unlike these two, though, she doesn’t have a son who resurrects her, nor a turned-benefactor cosmic being who offers her resurrection as a gift to her son. Rowena has to resurrect herself. Not once but twice. She is, perhaps, the loneliest character in the whole series.

This is actually quite ironic because, if we look back on previous seasons, her “choice” to kill Oskar, her putative son, was what triggered the whole chain of events (the freeing of Amara first and Lucifer second) that directly link Rowena with Mary and Kelly.

It’s only natural, then, that s13 Rowena keeps representing the reversal of the Mary and Sam/ Kelly and Jack relationships because there is no son who’s looking for her, rather she is the mother who’s looking for her (dead) child. Like Sam, she also needs someone who can access another dimension to bring Crowley back but, unlike him, she’s not successful. Now, ngl, this pisses me off to no end, like of course I can understand the real reasons why Crowley couldn’t be brought back, still I kinda hate how it was narratively framed.

When, in "Funeralia", Rowena says that life is unfair she is right but not in the general, pessimistic sense of the phrase: she's right because in-universe some deaths are more important than others and people get back on board depending on whether or not they're still a role to play for them. Rowena's faith in magic is actually justified because magic is the only thing that can help her. And the tragic thing is that it's also what damns her in the process because it's the only form of power she can have access to. There are no angels or cosmic entities looking out for her. She's just... alone.

So, perhaps, it's not that I necessarily hate how her failure to bring Crowley back is described, I just see it as further proof that Rowena is the best example to show how in Supernatural the game is rigged from the beginning and we didn’t even need an interfering and pervy God to realize it. That's all we've been seeing it since S1. All those infinite, booooring talks about being good/evil or doing good/bad actually mean nothing because, at the end of the day, in this show what really matters is how useful you can be, to whom and why (and this is way less booooring, you learn a lot of interesting things about these characters if you go down this road, it's grim but it's more rewarding).

S13 is also when the final connection between Rowena and the Winchesters, Sam to be more precise, is established which is indicative of the fact that she will inevitably die. Before S13 her story was her own, after “Funeralia” it cannot be extricated from Sam’s. To some degree, it’s quite similar to what happened with Crowley and Dean. What’s more, just like Crowley’s powers and shrewdness are what really carry the plot from s6 to s12, magic and spells (and therefore Rowena’s role in the story) will be the key for many plot points from s13 to s15. But there is a big difference.

Both Crowley and Rowena’s sacrifices are described as heroic but, let’s be honest, only Rowena’s was. Crowley’s demise was a clean-up after his own mess at best. It also proved to be unnecessary. Rowena and that awful MBOL’s egg thingy would have managed to confine Lucifer, like, they actually did it. It was Crowley who perverted the spell for reasons that I personally find OOC. I would’ve liked the Crowley vs Lucifer power struggle but not the way it was done in s12 because it felt very nonsensical to me. As in: I can see you need a reason to keep Lucifer around and this is what you’ve come up with but it’s still quite illogical.

At its hidden and secret core S13 is the season of the “let’s reframe the sons’ stories and blame it on the mothers”. Just like Kelly is blamed for Castiel’s ideal vision of Jack and Mary’s "choice" is established as the most important point in the whole show, Rowena-as-Mother must face the same fate: it was her fault if Crowley, Fergus!, ended the way he ended. It’s a naaaaaaaaaaaaaah for me.

This is what we’re told in “Funeralia”:

Rowena: Oh, but it is. Death has something I want. Sam: What’s that? Rowena: My son. After you told me he was gone, how he died, I had an unexpected reaction. We had our differences, but it’s my fault he went down the path he did. I left him. Dean: We’re talking about Crowley-- demon, King of Hell? Rowena: We’re talking about Fergus-- a man abandoned and loveless, tricked by a demon, died in a gutter. He deserved better from the world. From me.

Now, just to be clear: yes, Rowena had the responsibility to do better; yes, she was the absolute worst; yes, she played no small role in her son’s story. However, I personally don’t like all these negative associations between “worlds” and “mothers” as if every fucking thing in the universe is dependent solely on them. How did we end up here? It’s almost as if absent fathers are, like, not THAT bad after all (and the show, as far as I'm concerned, ultimately approves of and absolves absent fathers). So I’m very suspicious of the way motherhood is portrayed specifically in s13 and Rowena’s attempt at redemption well demonstrates that there is reason to be so.

This dialogue in “Funeralia” confirms my gut feeling:

Sam: You know, what happened with Crowley? That wasn’t your fault. Rowena: He never had a chance. Dean: He made his choices, just like we all do. Look, every one of us has done something that we have to live with, that were trying to make up for. Every one of us. Sam: Even without all that extra juice, you’re still the deadliest witch around [Sam's flattering Rowena. He's gonna ask for her help in 3,2,1...]. Rowena: Flatterer. Sam: Yeah, well, we, um... we may need your help [Here we go!]. To save our family. To… hell, to save the world. Dean: You wanna be redeemed? This would be a pretty big step. Rowena: And do you think I still can be? Dean: Yeah, I do.

I mean, not to be rude, but who the fuck cares if Dean Winchester thinks that Rowena can be redeemed? Like, how is Rowena’s redemption (which is strictly connected to her being a bad mother and not, among other things, a zero-regret murderer, which she also happens to be, for instance) connected to saving the Winchester’s family? Don’t get me wrong, I understand that this is SPN and that Sam and Dean’s problems are Apocalypse-level problems (lol, they really did that, when I say that their story is like a cosmogony maybe I’m not that wrong) but, as I’ve said, I cannot help but notice the similarities between Rowena’s arc this season with Mary’s and Jack’s, i.e. you can be redeemed if you either do something useful for the Winchesters or... realize that it's not your "fault" that your sons suffered terribily because "choosing" to deal with Azazel was actually the right choice... for the world. How come fathers saving the world are framed as heroic while mothers actively creating worlds by making hard choices that benefit the greater good need redemption?

So to sum up: while fathers invade S13’s main storyline as solvers, restorers and fixers, mothers are the bones of the story, they carry its weight and its sins but get little if nothing in return: Kelly stays dead, Mary ends up helping out a world that absolves her of her Original Sin but that’s nevertheless a mess (you can never win lol) and Rowena can’t get her son back (but she can save Sam and Dean's family the world!). Looks good, right? Hurray mommy!