#stark restoration

[spacerockfloater]

Honestly, the house Stark (specifically Sansa) stan to house Hightower (specifically Alicent) stan pipeline is so real. It warms my heart that most of the GOT fans who have a soft spot for the Starks sympathise with the Targtowers.

I am genuinely offended that the Team Black folks think they’re one with the Stark fans because Cregan promised Rhaenyra he’d side with her on the war (despite not thinking that she’s important enough to come to her aid immediately, marching down only when the war was over and executing those who poisoned Aegon II). It gives off the same icky energy as when someone who looks entirely different than you calls you ‘twin’: bitch, no the fuck we ain’t! Did you miss Cregan’s first ever voice line in the show? “Duty is sacrifice.” That’s a whole ass parallel to Alicent’s “Where is duty? Where is sacrifice?” that you can’t ignore.

And I can’t help but laugh each time someone says that Ned would do right by Rhaenyra. Like, no the fuck he wouldn’t! One look at her firstborns and he would have marched straight to Dragonstone! We’re just completely overriding show canon for the shake of delusion at this point.

Anyways, stan house Stark and house Baratheon for wiping the Targaryens off the face of the earth forevermore!

[babybells123]

(ASOS, Sansa II)

(ASOS, Jon XII)

[jonsnowunemploymentera]

Yeah it’s cool and all that Lyanna Mormont and Wylla Manderly are such vocal Stark loyalists. But it’s actually quite important that they share names with two of the most important women in Jon Snow’s life: Lyanna Stark - his mother, and Wylla - his wetnurse and rumored mother in universe. Such stunning loyalty from these two girls who are named after women so important to Jon just tickles all the key parts of my brain. These are the women who gave him life. And it’s even more poignant when we realize that by ADWD, when the girls are declaring their loyalty, Jon is the KiTN who bears the name STARK per Robb’s decree.

[rise-my-angel]

Some stans actually believe that once Jon learns of his true parentage he will be happy. Jon literally just wants to be acknowledged as a Stark, he wants nothing with that shitty prince or his fire loving family. He might get some closure knowing about Lyanna but Ned Stark will always be his daddy.

I was thinking about this, and really, it doesn't change much of Jon's understanding of Ned. He knows his father isn't telling him the truth, or at least by not saying a word to him about his mother, he is keeping information from him on purpose. He knows Ned was hiding something about his birth, because Jon spent his entire life wondering what couldve happened between his mother and his father to cause him to shut down about it, even to him, even to Catelyn.

Jon already is aware that Ned is hiding something. He just does not know the degree of the secret.

But also, I am sick of people dismissing Neds role in his life. Ned is not Jon's uncle. Sure by blood he is, but Jon was raised thinking that he is his father. He was treated just like a father treats his son, he was loved and given the same education that Robb got, he was raised in the family home getting to grow up with his brothers and sisters.

Jon didn't suddenly lose all those days or evenings he wouldve gotten to spend with his father alone. Didn't suddenly lose all of the times they acted just like a loving father and son with no hangups. He didn't suddenly lose the fact that to Ned Stark, Jon is not his nephew, he is his son.

Jon does not suddenly lose that Ned never even gave him a reason to feel like he wasn't a good enough son. He interacted with his father his whole life in a way that made him feel loved to the point that even now that hes dead, Jon routinely feels frustration that multiple older men in his life have tried to place themselves into the position of a father figure to Jon.

He was given a personalized version of the Mormonts ancestral sword, that was once belonging to Jeors son. Jon's honoured but he is not lost on the implication that Jeor looks at Jon like a pseudo son and it bothers Jon even then. Men can give Jon a thousand swords but it will never change that his father alone is Ned Stark. And keep in mind, this occurs during the period of time early at Castle Black where Jon is resentful and thinks Ned let him come here because this life was all he deserved. And he STILL refused to let someone sway him into seeing a man as a father figure other then Ned Stark.

Jon through all the insecurities and anger, loves Ned Stark as much as a son possibly could. More then once Jon thinks in situations that could lead to his death, about Ned. He always circles back to what would his father think or do. Jon dictates his independent, adult life based around learning to be the honourable man his father wanted him to be and does so without resentment.

My negative opinions of Rhaegar aside, Jon has no attachment to the thought of him as any kind of man. He grew up his whole life knowing the story that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna Stark. He grew up likely hearing the rumours that she was raped. He knew that kidnapping led to her dying tragically at the age of 16 in a way that clearly traumatized his father.

Jon has never been missing a father figure. He has always been missing his mother. Not missing a mother figure, only his mother. The only person he cares to learn about is her because shes the one person in Jon's blood he has never truly known. Then he learns hes heard about his mother his whole life, and realizes the bloodshed caused both for his conception and that she died without having a chance to be with her son at all.

Learning the truth is about realizing WHY Ned did the things he did. Why telling him about his mother was both too painful and too risky. Jon can be angry he was lied too, but does not change that Jon is smart and will understand that Ned did it all to protect Jon.

Jon will realize Ned did not need to raise him as his own son, in his home and family and give him love, to keep him safe. Jon knows Ned did all of that because he loves him the way Ned loved Robb or Bran. Jon will ultimately realize he never actually lost the father he grew up with, because Ned always considered Jon to be his son.

Learning the truth for Jon is about Lyanna, it's about learning that his mother died with her last words begging Ned to protect him because she loved him. It's about Jon realizing he is an echo of the dark shadows of Lyannas final months of life and that he needs to stand up and fight because she couldn't. That he needs to protect the ones he loves the way he wishes he could go back in time and protect her.

It's about realizing hes always had a father, because to Ned, Jon was always his son through and through. And it's about Jon realizing that he needs to live and fight because without him, Lyannas memory will fade away forever and he will not allow that to happen to her again.

Whatever people want to say about how Jon will feel about learning his blood is partly Targaryean, they will always downplay Jon also coming to terms with himself as a Stark.

However Jon will feel about the Targaryean side, none of that will take away that Jon will realize how incredibly important his Stark side is and always was. Their speculations about how Jon will feel about a man hes barley thought about his whole life, should never overpower that the truth leads Jon to the thing that matters.

That Jon Snow has always been loved, and he's always been a Stark. Because he was the son his mother died begging to protect, and he was the son that Ned Stark chose.

[idk-bruh-20]

Irondad fic ideas #139

NWH AU where Tony's been in a coma this whole time. He still is. But the world thinks he's dead.

One day, Rhodey is in some science place (maybe SI, maybe a community college where he was giving a speech?) and he sees this kid tinkering who looks exactly like Tony Stark. The teen Tony Stark from when he first met him at MIT. Even down to the mannerisms. He goes up and has a brief conversation with this stranger, just curious. Then he leaves.

Unbeknownst to the kid, Peter, Rhodey managed to grab something for a DNA test. The kid just looked too much like his best friend. Like seeing a ghost

When they analyze the DNA, they learn that this kid is in fact Tony's biological son

Rhodey goes back to find the kid, this time bringing Happy. Peter gets to have the super fun conversation where two people who should know him but don't tell him that the person he saw as a father was his actual father, only it's too late

They convince Peter to come with them eventually. And Peter gets the shock of his entire life

Over the next little while, at Tony's bedside, Peter gets to know Morgan (who he would've seen as a sister anyway but this is insane). He also gets reacquainted with Rhodey, Happy, and Pepper, who all admittedly find him a bit sus with how much he seems to know.

But...this is Tony's kid. His son. So they let him be there, let him talk to Tony and hold his hand. 

Finally, finally, Tony wakes up.

And it turns out, being in a coma and thought dead by the entire world, including wizards, makes one exempt from certain magic

Bonus:

As he sits by Tony's bedside, Peter has to grapple with a lot of emotions. One of them is the realization that he was never actually related to Uncle Ben, which makes him feel like his uncle and aunt died for nothing

Pepper helps him through it. Even not knowing him the way she once did, she knows plenty about guilt complexes and chosen family. She assures Peter that he's still a Parker, no matter what, and that his aunt and uncle wouldn't have given him up for the world

Another thing Peter deals with is the fear of Tony waking up and not knowing him. It breaks his heart just thinking about it.

Cue THE most relieving hurt/comfort reunion ever imagined

[greenerteacups]

oooh please someday tell us what you think of GOT

oh, no, it's my fatal weakness! it's [checks notes] literally just the bare modicum of temptation! okay you got me.

SO. in order to tell what's wrong with game of thrones you kind of have to have read the books, because the books are the reason the show goes off the rails. i actually blame the showrunners relatively little in proportion to GRRM for how bad the show was (which I'm not gonna rehash here because if you're interested in GOT in any capacity you've already seen that horse flogged to death). people debate when GOT "got bad" in terms of writing, but regardless of when you think it dropped off, everyone agrees the quality declined sharply in season 8, and to a certain extent, season 7. these are the seasons that are more or less entirely spun from whole cloth, because season 7 marks the beginning of what will, if we ever see it, be the Winds of Winter storyline. it's the first part that isn't based on a book by George R.R. Martin. it's said that he gave the showrunners plot outlines, but we don't know how detailed they were, or how much the writers diverged from the blueprint — and honestly, considering the cumulative changes made to the story by that point, some stark divergence would have been required. (there's a reason for this. i'll get there in a sec.)

so far, i'm not saying anything all that original. a lot of people recognized how bad the show got as soon as they ran out of Book to adapt. (I think it's kind of weird that they agreed to make a show about an unfinished series in the first place — did GRRM figure that this was his one shot at a really good HBO adaptation, and forego misgivings about his ability to write two full books in however many years it took to adapt? did he think they would wait for him? did he not care that the series would eventually spoil his magnum opus, which he's spent the last three decades of his life writing? perplexing.) but the more interesting question is why the show got bad once it ran out of Book, because in my mind, that's not a given. a lot of great shows depart from the books they were based on. fanfiction does exactly that, all the time! if you have good writers who understand the characters they're working with, departure means a different story, not a worse one. now, the natural reply would be to say that the writers of GOT just aren't good, or at least aren't good at the things that make for great television, and that's why they needed the books as a structure, but I don't think that's true or fair, either. books and television are very different things. the pacing of a book is totally different from the pacing of a television show, and even an episodic book like ASOIAF is going to need a lot of work before it's remotely watchable as a series. bad writers cannot make great series of television, regardless of how good their source material is. sure, they didn't invent the characters of tyrion lannister and daenerys targaryen, but they sure as hell understood story structure well enough to write a damn compelling season of TV about them!

so but then: what gives? i actually do think it's a problem with the books! the show starts out as very faithful to the early books (namely, A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings) to the point that most plotlines are copied beat-for-beat. the story is constructed a little differently, and it's definitely condensed, but the meat is still there. and not surprisingly, the early books in ASOIAF are very tightly written. for how long they are, you wouldn't expect it, but on every page of those books, the plot is racing. you can practically watch george trying to beat the fucking clock. and he does! useful context here is that he originally thought GOT was going to be a trilogy, and so the scope of most threads in the first book or two would have been much smaller. it also helps that the first three books are in some respects self-contained stories. the first book is a mystery, the second and third are espionage and war dramas — and they're kept tight in order to serve those respective plots.

the trouble begins with A Feast for Crows, and arguably A Storm of Swords, because GRRM starts multiplying plotlines and treating the series as a story, rather than each individual book. he also massively underestimated the number of pages it would take him to get through certain plot beats — an assumption whose foundation is unclear, because from a reader's standpoint, there is a fucke tonne of shit in Feast and Dance that's spurious. I'm not talking about Brienne's Riverlands storyline (which I adore thematically but speaking honestly should have been its own novella, not a part of Feast proper). I'm talking about whole chapters where Tyrion is sitting on his ass in the river, just talking to people. (will I eat crow about this if these pay off in hugely satisfying ways in Winds or Dream? oh, totally. my brothers, i will gorge myself on sweet sweet corvid. i will wear a dunce cap in the square, and gleefully, if these turn out to not have been wastes of time. the fact that i am writing this means i am willing to stake a non-negligible amount of pride on the prediction that that will not happen). I'm talking about scenes where the characters stare at each other and talk idly about things that have already happened while the author describes things we already have seen in excruciating detail. i'm talking about threads that, while forgivable in a different novel, are unforgivable in this one, because you are neglecting your main characters and their story. and don't tell me you think that a day-by-day account tyrion's river cruise is necessary to telling his story, because in the count of monte cristo, the main guy disappears for nine years and comes hurtling back into the story as a vengeful aristocrat! and while time jumps like that don't work for everything, they certainly do work if what you're talking about isn't a major story thread!

now put aside whether or not all these meandering, unconcluded threads are enjoyable to read (as, in fairness, they often are!). think about them as if you're a tv showrunner. these bad boys are your worst nightmare. because while you know the author put them in for a reason, you haven't read the conclusion to the arc, so you don't know what that reason is. and even if the author tells you in broad strokes how things are going to end for any particular character (and this is a big "if," because GRRM's whole style is that he lets plots "develop as he goes," so I'm not actually convinced that he does have endings written out for most major characters), that still doesn't help you get them from point A (meandering storyline) to point B (actual conclusion). oh, and by the way, you have under a year to write this full season of television, while GRRM has been thinking about how to end the books for at least 10. all of this means you have to basically call an audible on whether or not certain arcs are going to pay off, and, if they are, whether they make for good television, and hence are worth writing. and you have to do that for every. single. unfinished. story. in the books.

here's an example: in the books, Quentin Martell goes on a quest to marry Daenerys and gain a dragon. many chapters are spent detailing this quest. spoiler alert: he fails, and he gets charbroiled by dragons. GRRM includes this plot to set up the actions of House Martell in Winds, but the problem is that we don't know what House Martell does in Winds, because (see above) the book DNE. So, although we can reliably bet that the showrunners understand (1) Daenerys is coming to Westeros with her 3 fantasy nukes, and (2) at some point they're gonna have to deal with the invasion of frozombies from Canada, that DOESN'T mean they necessarily know exactly what's going to happen to Dorne, or House Martell. i mean, fuck! we don't even know if Martin knows what's going to happen to Dorne or House Martell, because he's said he's the kind of writer who doesn't set shit out beforehand! so for every "Cersei defaults on millions of dragons in loans from the notorious Bank of Nobody Fucks With Us, assumes this will have no repercussions for her reign or Westerosi politics in general" plotline — which might as well have a big glaring THIS WILL BE IMPORTANT stamp on top of the chapter heading — you have Arianne Martell trying to do a coup/parent trap switcheroo with Myrcella, or Euron the Goffick Antichrist, or Faegon Targaryen and JonCon preparing a Blackfyre restoration, or anything else that might pan out — but might not! And while that uncertainty about what's important to the "overall story" might be a realistic way of depicting human beings in a world ruled by chance and not Destiny, it makes for much better reading than viewing, because Game of Thrones as a fantasy television series was based on the first three books, which are much more traditional "there is a plot and main characters and you can generally tell who they are" kind of book. I see Feast and Dance as a kind of soft reboot for the series in this respect, because they recenter the story around a much larger cast and cast a much broader net in terms of which characters "deserve" narrative attention.

but if you're making a season of television, you can't do that, because you've already set up the basic premise and pacing of your story, and you can't suddenly pivot into a long-form tone poem about the horrors of war. so you have to cut something. but what are you gonna cut? bear in mind that you can't just Forget About Dorne, or the Iron Islands, or the Vale, or the North, or pretty much any region of the story, because it's all interconnected, but to fit in everything from the books would require pacing of the sort that no reasonable audience would ever tolerate. and bear in mind that the later books sprout a lot more of these baby-plots that could go somewhere, but also might end up being secondary or tertiary to the "main story," which, at the end of the day, is about dragons and ice zombies and the rot at the heart of the feudal power system glorified in classical fantasy. that's the story that you as the showrunner absolutely must give them an end to, and that's the story that should be your priority 1.

so you do a hack and slash job, and you mortar over whatever you cut out with storylines that you cook up yourself, but you can't go too far afield, because you still need all the characters more or less in place for the final showdown. so you pinch here and push credulity there, and you do your best to put the characters in more or less the same place they would have been if you kept the original, but on a shorter timeframe. and is it as good as the first seasons? of course not! because the material that you have is not suited to TV like the first seasons are. and not only that, but you are now working with source material that is actively fighting your attempt to constrain a linear and well-paced narrative on it. the text that you're working with changed structure when you weren't looking, and now you have to find some way to shanghai this new sprawling behemoth of a Thing into a television show. oh, and by the way, don't think that the (living) author of the source material will be any help with this, because even though he's got years of experience working in television writing, he doesn't actually know how all of these threads will tie together, which is possibly the reason that the next book has taken over 8 years (now 13 and counting) to write. oh and also, your showrunners are sick of this (in fairness, very difficult) job and they want to go write for star wars instead, so they've refused the extra time the studio offered them for pre-production and pushed through a bunch of first-draft scripts, creating a crunch culture of the type that spawns entirely avoidable mistakes, like, say, some poor set designer leaving a starbucks cup in frame.

anyway, that's what I think went wrong with game of thrones.

[ladystoneboobs]

no of fence to jon snow fans who for some reason care about his exact age, but these discussions just annoy me no end. not only bc there's no way any weirwood flashbacks bran has to rhaegar/lyanna will come with time/datestamps, but also bc there's always comments like this:

SEVERAL turns of the moon (ie, months)?! have these people never seen a human baby before or just have no concept of their ages? even if we take into account travel time from the toj to wf, meaning jon was not a newborn too fresh out the oven when catelyn and robb arrived, there's still a difference between a newborn and a 3mo and an even bigger difference between those infants and an older baby 5-7mo. there's very good reasons these lines were cut. whatever birthdates can be worked out internally for jon and robb from when they're first mentioned as 15 and 16 don't matter in the end, bc grrm doesn't care about a consistent timeline and the actual text of catelyn's pov and ned's convo with robert about cheating on her should outweigh any guesstimates about jon's official nameday wrt robb's. catelyn may not have cared for jon, but she would sure as hell have noticed his nameday if it came before robb's and made him ned's firstborn. if jon's birthday canonically came before robb's then either ned's cover story would not involve adultery (not impossible for him to sire a bastard before his wedding), or he'd just give jon a new nameday along with his new name to fit the adultery lie. it makes no sense for him to lie about one and not the other, undermining the big lie with a little public clue of his story not adding up. whatever else she was as a stepmother, cat wasn't stupid and a bastard who was actually the eldest son being raised alongside her trueborn heir could be an even bigger insult than whether he was born of adultery or not.

BUT, the unknowability of jon's true birthday is not the only reason this annoys me, it's bc this is all based on the assumption that jon must be older since rhaegar/lyanna ran off together before ned married cat, as if both boys must have been conceived asap as robb canonically was when his parents consummated their marriage. and that's not how human reproduction works! even if you don't understand how fast babies grow in the first year, you should know that people who get pregnant do so through ovulation cycles and a lucky sperm finding an egg and all that, not just immediately getting knocked up as soon as one has p-in-v sex for the first time. not unless you only know mean girls sex ed where if you have sex you will get pregnant and die. (even tho lyanna did die, there's plenty of canon examples where pregnancy did not lead straight to death. also examples of people who did not get pregnant right away and even some who are/were sexually active and childless without always having moon tea on hand.) we can't know how long lyanna was having sex before that sperm+egg match happened or even how long she was with rhaegar before losing her technical virginity. if they were married, doesn't it make sense to think they didn't consummate their relationship until the wedding night either? that's the only leverage there is to ensure a status as wife rather than just mistress.

and while i just said grrm doesn't care about exact timelines and a lot is still foggy surrounding the rebellion and esp rhaegar, there is one timemarker wrt robert's rebellion he voluntarily threw in, time and time again: that stannis was besieged at storm's end for almost a whole year. that siege, which mind you, did not match the duration of the entire war. it only started after robert won his battles at gulltown and summerhall, returned to storm's end, and then went out and lost the battle of ashford, leaving his homeland open to the reachermen. the same siege which only ended when ned made a detour there after the sack of king's landing, before going to the toj. even if lyanna may not have given birth that exact day ned found her, she could only be waiting in that bloody bed for weeks at the most, not months. so if rhaegar knocked her up the very same night he carried her off and jon was still a newborn when ned found her after the siege of storm's end had ended, wouldn't that mean lyanna was pregnant for well over a year? that's not how human pregnancy works either! so, maybe that's proof that jon and robb, whichever order they were actually born in, were actually very close in age as babies, much closer than if they were both conceived asap.

and really, jon's actual birthdate does not matter imho, when he was raised not just as the bastard to robb's trueborn heir, but with robb also known by catelyn and the world as ned's firstborn (which he was, in any case, as jon was ned's nephew by birth). what difference could a birthdate before robb's make (even were there some means of discovery) after ned, cat, and robb are all dead? if one is looking only at his birth parents then he's only a firstborn child on lyanna's side, but definitely a second son on rhaegar's side. maybe he was always meant to be a second son with a not much older half-brother! even if the aegon fka young griff is not in fact rhaegar's son, he'll still be known as aegon vi targaryen, meaning jon will never be known as any father's elder son. if i may reference mean girls again, it's not going to happen.

[thisonetimeinmeridian]

I saw a targ stan on twitter say the targ loyalist in them was starting to get annoyed when a bunch of tiktok videos kept appearing all reacting to the Stark theme and Winterfell in episode 1. All basically saying that that's where their true allegiance lies, and it felt like going home hearing that. Like ok go off, but you could've just kept scrolling on past, but instead, you decided to get pissed off and mouth off on twitter that people loved and were loyal to a house that wasn't your pro-incest and blood supremacy house. It just makes me laugh and gives me a concerning amount of joy.

[catofadifferentcolor]

Terrible Fic Idea #72: Game of Thrones, but make it Ptolemaic

There's something fascinating about the way the Ptolemys took over Egypt following the death of Alexander the Great - sure, anyone can conquer, but it takes an interesting mind to look around for ways to legitimate their rule and fall on sibling marriage as the solution. Yes, it was common among certain royal dynasties, but the Macedonian Greeks, from whom the Ptolemys descended, despised it. I would love a snapshot into how that first sibling marriage came to be.

It was this in mind I stumbled upon the idea for my next terrible fic idea: What if Jon and Robb were not of age with each other?

Aka: The Weirwood Queen Fic

Just imagine it:

Everything follows canon, with two exceptions: 1) Lyanna dies giving birth to a daughter at the Tower of Joy. Ned names the girl after their favorite Great-Aunt, Jocelyn; and 2) Catelyn loses the child she conceives on her wedding night.

(Robb is still born, but his birth date and the birth dates of all the other Stark children are pushed back two years.)

Now, it is one thing to return from war with a bastard when your wife has just given birth to a legitimate heir; it is quite another thing to return from war with a bastard after she miscarried. For this reason Ned choses to pass Jocelyn off as his brother Brandon's bastard daughter with Ashara Dayne.

Jocelyn's childhood is similar in many ways to canon, but not. Without her "twin" or any trueborn siblings to draw attention away, most of the castle dotes on young Jocelyn. Even once her cousins are born, Jocelyn remains the oldest of the lot, filled with the confidence that a child only has when they know they are loved. She loves her cousins in turn, but with the age gap they're never quite as close as canon, and she's more nursemaid for the younger ones than a playmate.

Catleyn, of course, loathes her, and begs for her to be sent away - which she eventually is. But instead of sending Jocelyn to the Silent Sisters, or across the sea, or marrying her off to a loyal man-at-arms stationed on the edge of Stark lands... Ned accepts widowed Rickard Karstark's offer for Jocelyn's hand. He's a loyal bannerman whose family has often wed Stark bastards and was notorious for his care and devotion to his first wife. It is the best Ned can do for her.

And so Jocelyn becomes the second Lady Karstark, which is awkward, as her stepsons are quite a bit older than her and her stepdaughter Alys is only six months younger, but Jocelyn thrives as a lady of a Northern House. Her husband is kind enough and largely allows her to run the house as she will, which is as best as she could have hoped for in a marriage.

By the time King Robert rides north two years later than canon, Jocelyn has given birth to a son, Brandon, and is pregnant with a daughter, Lyanna.

Canon continues apace, if somewhat delayed. Ned becomes hand of the king and loses his head. The North rises up, names Robb King in the North... and Rickard's sons Torrhen and Edward are killed by Jaime Lannister, for which Rickard kills two hostages. Robb still choses to execute Rickard Karstark.

Meanwhile, Jocelyn has been rallying forces to take Winterfell back from the Greyjoy's in the North. She succeeds, only to learn within the week that her cousin has made her a widow.

Jocelyn quietly rages. She'd never loved her husband, but she'd been fond of him. It's the hypocrisy that gets her most - because the Starks have always put family first, but she's known from the beginning that some family counts more than others, otherwise Ned would have never killed her uncle Arthur, or led her mother Ashara to throw herself off a tower, or allowed his son to think it fitting to kill her husband while they knew Jocelyn was preparing to take back his home for him.

And so what you have is Jocelyn continuing to rule Winterfell in her cousin's name but largely acting on her own, never outright ignoring Robb's commands while he's still alive but following the letter rather than the spirit of the order.

This continues for some time, with Jocelyn Queen of the North in all but name after the Red Wedding - holding off the Boltons and the Greyjoys - and gaining the respect of the North.

Into this enter Bran (as played by the Three-Eyed Raven) and baby Rickon.

After four or five years of playing Regent for Sansa, still held hostage in King's Landing, the last thing Jocelyn wants to do is give up power to her thirteen year of cousin who 1) spent the last five years beyond the Wall, letting her do all the hard work of ruling and 2) has no idea what the political situation is in the North. Most of the Northern lords feel similarly and insist Bran and Jocelyn wed, if only so Jocelyn can continue what she's been doing while Bran learns the ropes.

Jocelyn is even less happy about this, but goes along with it in name only, sleeping in a separate part of the castle.

This goes on for about two years, Bran making all sorts of subtle attempts to undermine Jocelyn's rule that - if they'd succeeded - would only have destabilized the North. Jocelyn is gearing up to have him declared addled by his trip beyond the Wall when she catches Bran - or, rather, the Three-Eyed Raven - trying to jump ship into Jocelyn's son seven-year-old son, Brandon Karstark, who with his Targaryen and Stark blood would make a better host.

Explaining to her bannermen just why she murdered her second husband is a challenge, but the evidence - that he was trying to kill her son - is rather irrefutable. Unfortunately, it leaves her in the same position as before, this time having to marry her her ten-year-old cousin Rickon to continue ruling the North.

Through all of this, it should be clear Jocelyn is doing this less out of desire for personal power - though there is a glimmer of that, especially when certain lords demand she give up her regency to man - then desire to stabilize the North. Ned and Robb had gone south, and it had nearly cost the North everything. All Jocelyn wants to do is keep the madness consuming the south from infecting the North too.

Meanwhile, Daenerys and Young Griff have joined forces in Essos, married, and begun their reconquest of Westeros. Amid the chaos, they succeed brilliantly.

They leave the North for last, attempt to replay the submission of Torrhen, but in a much weaker position than The Conqueror was - they have dragons, but winter is setting in and their martial might is largely exhausted by a decade of warfare. Regardless, Jocelyn tells Rickon to bend the knee, realizing the North can't survive on its own for long. For this they get many concessions - a break in taxes, the title of Prince of the North, and the betrothal of the Dany and Young Griff's son and daughter to Jocelyn's children Lyanna and Brandon Karstark respectively.

Jocelyn continues to rule the North, largely without the input of her third husband, who after his majority largely spends his time in Dany and Young Griff's ongoing military campaigns - putting down rebellions throughout their empire, pirates in the Stepstones, and the like - until he is killed crossing a river in Essos. The title of Prince of the North falls to Jocelyn's son, Brandon Karstark, who drops the Kar from his name and rules well - with the help of his mother.

Bonuses include: 1) Jocelyn never expressing anything other than familial fondness for any of her husbands, never sleeping with the second two, and largely being presented as an aromantic asexual who because of societal expectations forces herself to try to have romantic/sexual feelings for her first husband, fails, and then keeps her second two firmly in the baby cousins category; 2) An exploration of family dynamics in Westeros - specifically, what it means to be on the outside looking in as a bastard and knowing that your uncle and cousin don't seem to count the death of your mother, mother's brother, or husband as kinslaying, and being a woman allowed to hold the reins of power while the men are away and being expected to turn everything over to the first male claimant who shows up after you've done all the hard work; 3) The Three-Eyed Raven putting on a masterclass of how to be subtly creepy enough to cause everyone around him to think they're imagining things, when in reality it's worse than they imagined, and having been working even beyond the Wall to help bring about the Targaryen Restoration; 4) No one ever suspecting Jocelyn as being Rhaegar's daughter, and historians using the Valeryian looks her children have with their Targaryen spouses as proof Young Griff was really Prince Aegon; and 5) An exploration of the North, its traditions, and its religion, with Jocelyn somewhat inadvertently bringing about a revival of the last two through her desire to Damnatio Memoriae her late and unlamented Aunt Catelyn.

And that's all I have. I suppose its not as ptolemaic as it could be, but I was thinking of Cleopatra VII and her marriages to her two younger brothers as I wrote it, so. As always, feel free to adopt this plot bunny, just link back if you ever do anything with it.

Other Jon Snow Headcanons: Aelor the Accursed | Aegon the Adopted | Aegon the Undying | Aegon the Unyielding | Aemon the Adventurous | Baelor the Brave | Bastard of Winterfell | Daemon the Destroyer | Daena the Dreamer | Daeron the Desired | Dyanna the Defiant | Elia the Magnificent | Jon the Fair | Jon Whitefyre | King of the Ashes | Lady Arryn | Lady Baratheon | Lady Lannister | Lady Stark | Lord of the Dance | Maekar the Maester | People's Queen | Prince Consort | Prince of Summerhall | Queen Mother | Queen of Nightingales | Red Queen | Rhaegar the Righteous | River Queen | Shiera Snowbird | Visneya the Victorious | Weirwood Queen | Wolf Queen

More Terrible Fic Ideas

[death-of-cats]

Thinking about the similarities between Doran Martell and Wyman Manderly…. Both feigning loyalty while secretly advancing plots for revenge and the restoration of the previous ruling house, both underestimated because of their reputations for caution/cowardice. The parallel gives me pause about the prospects of Manderly’s scheming paying off, given how Martell’s plans seem likely to go.

[imaginarianisms]

more asoiaf comparisons, parallels & antiparallels to the first dance of the dragons vs the second & final dance of the dragons (& possibly the sixth blackfyre rebellion): the blacks being daenerys i targaryen's supporters, the golds being aegon vi targaryen's supporters, tommen baratheon being a close equivalent to gaemon palehair & his mother essie & sylvenna sand which may be interpreted as a parallel with queen cersei lannister & taena merryweather of myr, trystane truefyre being a close equivalent to aegon/young griff & perkin being jon connington & the shepherd being the new high septon the high sparrow, dalton greyjoy being euron i greyjoy's ancestor & the latter surpassing him, alyn waters later alyn velaryon resembling aurane waters later aurane velaryon & finishing what their ancestors started. history repeats itself.

[weirwoodpaste]

Does anyone have interest in an AU where the Battle of the Fords never happens so Robb lures Tywin into the Westerlands? So so much hinges on that one battle, and I’ve been toying around with the AU idea for months now, but I don’t want to write it just for myself

[capsiclesteebrogers]

i rewatched the scene when jon and d*ny meet and hearing missandei call her "the RIGHTFUL queen of the seven kingdoms" made me burst out laughing. girl... your family has been deposed from the iron throne years ago, you have NO RIGHT to the the iron throne.

[rise-my-angel]

Really weird topic to bring up but have you seen the Robb/Daenerys shippers. They are hard core convince that Robb would become her loyal dog and give her the seven kingdoms. Like are we talking about the same Robb that fought for the North independence. I just find it kinda funny. Just wanted to know your opinion on this ship.

Robb and - thE DISRESPECT???? HELLO??

First of all, none of these people care about any character that isn't Dany. They literally just see Robb as loyal arm candy as much as they see Jon as her arm candy. Its pathetic. They aren't characters to them they are only accesories to Dany.

Second, DANY WOULD HAVE LINED ROBB UP RIGHT BESIDE THE TARLYS TO BURN ALIVE.

The show didnt go into detail, but part of why Dany I suspect, didn't take Jons claim as King in the North seriously is unironically because hes a bastard. Danys claim for the Iron Throne is depending on her highborn bloodright. Targaryeans already see themselves as superior people, and thus she definitely did not see Jon as a threat as much because to her, hes a bastard with a false claim to a Northern Kingdom she intends to force into subjegation anyways.

Robb though? Robb is a massive threat. Robb is Eddard Starks eldest trueborn son. He was the first King in the North since before her family invaded Westeros. He fought for Northern Independence tooth and nail. Robb would never bend the knee, its why he didn't have any treaty with Stannis despite their families close ties to each other. Stannis wanted Robb to bend the knee and so he refused. Robb would never give up Northern Independence. Never. Robb is also a charming man who is smart, a good battle commander and very well liked by the people and worshipped by his men. And he is a trueborn Stark.

Robb is a huge threat to her. Now so is Jon, but again, Dany does not consider Jons claim to be valid. Its why she doesn't mention Robb to him, shes trying to frame it like Jon has no right to rule. She could never say that to Robb, because he is the King the North the people chose after 300 years of forced subjegation.

Dany would absoutely consider Robb Stark her enemy, and Robb would hate her for the exact same reasons he hates the Lannisters. Robb would protect the North against her, and Dany would rather burn Robb alive because the North will never side with her as long as he lives.

WHY ARE JON AND ROBB NOTHING MORE THEN ARM CANDY TO DANY STANS I DONT GET IT

[branwendaughterofllyr]

Sorry girl, but you lost so badly, GRRM will never finish the books, meaning that there will be zero Stark restoration, zero Jonsa, and Daenerys is still alive. And the Greens are still utterly irrelevant and no character mention Alicent when they discuss the DoD. Stop stanning losers.

Oh honey. I know this is probably hard to you for hear, but I already have five books of Stark content to enjoy. I already have five books of Jon, Bran, Arya, and Sansa, not mention Ned and Cat, all pointing to a Stark restoration and the rebuilding of Winterfell. This entire series started with the scene of the Starks finding the direwolves. The original title of ADOS was A Time For Wolves. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Calling the Starks losers is very funny, when their enemies had to break the rules of their society to win and are already on their way out. The North Remembers and the mummer’s farce is almost done. Like, I don’t know what to tell you, the Starks still are at the heart of the books as written, doesn’t matter if George ever finishes ADOS, the Starks are still the heart. And that’s a win for me. And on Dany? Well. I mean. Girl is not exactly winning at everything at the moment, is she? One of the few essays about ASOIAF George has ever endorsed is the Meereenese Blot. Maybe go check it out? Or maybe reread ADWD? That’s sure to give you the warm and fuzzies about Dany all over again. And it’s funny for you to bring the Greens into this. Bc F&B is fundamentally an unserious book that I enjoy laughing at. Nobody looks good in it. I don’t even particularly like the book Greens. I just think that when a show tries push the framing of one side in what’s meant to be a bloody civil war where no one wins, I push back. And of the characters that get mentioned in canon during the Dance? Uh. I hate to tell you that Criston Cole gets equal mentions to Rhaenyra, and everyone else is pretty much not talked about. Daemon doesn’t even get brought up (overshadowed by all the Blackfyres I imagine). And we all know how the Dance ends. That story at least is done.

And this is the ASOIAF fandom. There are literally no irrelevant characters, lol. Someone can have nothing but one named mention, and there’s probably a fanblog about them somewhere. That’s simply not the insult you think it is. And as I recall, one of the og Dance novellas was “The Princess and The Queen”? Idk, someone’s talking about Alicent. Wonder who wrote that.

[yogoblog]

practiced(?) cleaning old comic scans with a random page of action comics (1938) #51