#st5 scene idea

[miwiromantics]

Hear me out but Mike getting vecna’d and El using her powers to get into his mind place and save him. She gets into his mind but isn’t able to find him anywhere until she hears soft crying. It’s Mike holding Will in his arms, blood dripping from the other boy’s eyes.

El can hear Mike whispering something to Will, something along the lines of ‘don’t leave me’ or ‘please come back’. He’s clutching onto Will’s hand and placing it towards his lips, fully sobbing now.

El places a hand on Mike’s shoulder and he quickly turns around. ‘Mike, it’s not real’ she whispers but Mike is inconsolable. He breaks down holding El’s arm, repeatedly choking out ‘it’s my fault, it’s all my fault’. She pulls his arm hurriedly and tells him ‘let’s go, it’s not safe hear’

But before she could insist further, a voice booms ‘why do you love someone who doesn’t love you back, Eleven?’ And El is transfixed while Mike holds Will’s body closer to his chest. ‘Why do you waste your time trying to save him?’

In the background the beginning of ‘small town boy’ plays as El can hear the real Will’s voice talk to her, saying ‘quick El please, find him’ and she can hear the desperation in his voice. She stops to look back at Mike, who was still on the floor, cradling fake Will’s body. And she understands.

She understands everything.

Just think about it.

[luv-byers]

So what if Will is not the one to have the flashback of them (mike and him) when they met, but MIKE is the one whose gonna remember it. What if Mike is Vecna’d at some point on this season?

We already had a scene where Will was able to wake up from his ‘trance’ when he was possessed in s2, so why repeat that scene with the same story?

What if this time is Mike remembering it all as his favourite memory and that’s gonna save him from vecna….

“That’s the best thing i’ve ever done.”

[bugsbenefit]

my annoyance with the current leaker isn't even with what they say. they're about as credible as any other "leaker", easily bullshit but sure maybe there is something behind it. nothing provable until we get serious leaks or more show teasers. my annoyance is just from how everyone is jumping at everything they say, even the vague nothing statements, and using it as "proof" for their hcs theories. and not in a, "this would work together nicely" or "this inspired me" way which i get but in the "since we now know this we can conclude theory xyz is happening" way

i'm already seeing people that take every self proclaimed leaker to heart and base their entire approach to s5 on them. every time i get a "since A is happening it would be so cute if B" approach i think i missed something new getting out but no, it's just the ripple effects of an alleged leak on twitter from two weeks ago

it's just frustrating, not new, happens in every fandom, but still, frustrating. because now you have people putting anonymous internet users on the same pedestal as actual in show canon which is the exact way you get a fandom to fixate on an idea that "needs" to happen. which will just make everyone unhappy when s5 drops and disappoints their expectations

we'll just have a "Will's painting is a swingset" (for some reason?) 2.0. i got back on ST tumblr in late July and i Still had to wade through people bitch about how disappointed they were with the painting. just because they were so set on the swingset idea. when, genuinely, a swingset would have been so corny, the dnd painting is infinitely better (to me)

[will80sbyers]

STRANGER THINGS 5 PRODUCTION MASTERPOST

part 002:

February 7 / 2024

The Stranger Things channel on ig posts pictures at the Hawkins memorial hospital : 1 / 2 / 3

February 9 / 2024

A video from the actress that plays Vickie in st5

Bts pictures of Vickie

Bts picture of Robin at the hospital inside room 110, Vickie has scenes at the hospital too

February 15 / 2024

It seems there are some scenes inside a barn at the farm (Robin, Mike and Will are there) / 2

FIRST LOOK AT WILL IN COSTUME !!!!!!!!!! and Robin my beloved + Mike is also there (Finn is taking the picture)

February 16 / 2024

BTS pics of Ross weeks 5-6 - FIRST LOOK AT NANCY!! lovers lake picture, El with the radio station outfit filming some action scene where Hopper's bracelet breaks, a home made tank for El to use with her powers? a drawing of a black shape/arrow?

February 17 / 2024

Bts pics of the vines inside Hawkins lab

Erica and Joyce are filming together

February 19 / 2024

FIRST LOOK AT HOPPER'S BEARD?

February 20 / 2024

It seems they are filming something that involves Castle Byers: 1 / 2

February 22 / 2024

New bts pictures from the radio station and the woods, with a stunt rehearsal of someone being thrown away / 2 / 3

Bts: scene with RED light where maybe Will is involved? / 2

Bts of the vines (video etc): 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5

February 28 / 2024

The Stranger Things channel on ig posts this thing on how to make a remote radio head RRH

Some ideas on what it could mean / 2

Steve & Jonathan are involved

March 1 / 2024

New bts pics from Ross of Weeks 7-8 - FIRST LOOK AT LUCAS AND MAX ON SET!!! It seems the date could be the 12 of november 1987 (or 2 of november 1989… it's not clear, both are a Thursday) A picture of Castle Byers in the UD etc

FIRST VIDEO OF MAX AND LUCAS ON SET BTS

March 4 / 2024

Pictures of the Wheeler's home posted by the ST channel on ig… there will be a scene at the Wheelers where they brainstorm stuff about Vecna? or have breakfast/ a meal together?…and someone is eating doritos? (Mike?): 1 / 2 / 3

March 8 / 2024

Mr. Clarke is back on set? the actor posted this

March 13 / 2024

New bts picture of them filming a scene in ep. 4 (the date of filming in the lower right angle of the picture seems to be around feb. 10-13 ) initially I thought it could be a rink o mania vision but I now think it's in Mike's basement: 1 / 2 / 3

VIDEO OF MILLIE (EL) on set making a coffee dressed as El, she has the same costume of the radio station scenes and blood on her nose, indicating an action scene

March 15 / 2024

Ross posts new pictures of weeks 9-10, FIRST LOOK AT HOPPER! + random background details

Picture of the kids in the Party hands posted by Ross 😭❤️❤️❤️

The full picture of Hopper

March 21 / 2024

New pictures from the set they seem to be shooting scenes with the military

March 22 / 2024

Ross posts the FIRST LOOK AT WILL BYERS!!!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO MY SON💞 ( in one of the pictures he seems to be inside the radio station bunker because of a suitcase being there and also radio equipment around, the other picture is at Castle Byers with a new actor playing Young Will so it could be a flashback or a vision or something like that!! ) Jonathan is in that scene too

March 27 / 2024

They start filming at a mansion that's situated at the Smoke and Rise country club in Atlanta. Eleven was there and has a scene screaming so there's some action going on, Will was also seen there later on and he looks like he has make up on like he's experiencing the effect of possessions or not feeling well. Nancy was seen there dressed with something that resembles a candy stripers costume of a volunteer nurse, Steve's car was parked outside with the radio station van and there's an antenna over Steve's car... (my theory now is that in the pre vis something makes the antenna go down into the car for the pressure, like something hitting the car from outside that breaks it)

Still at the mansion we have two stand-in actors that have been seen, one of them seems to be called Derek and he could be either a new character or using a fake name (he kinda looks like Jonathan) and there's also this audition for a kid called Derek...

Pictures of the mansion and the decorations, a dragon, butterflies etc... 1 / 2 / 3 / 4

A look of the entire house, old pictures from Google street

April 2 / 2024

My speculation from the video of the wardrobe of s5, Max could be wearing this jacket at some point during the season

April 3 / 2024

There's the neighbourhood watch at Hawkins

April 4 / 2024

Pictures from the Instagram channel, Karen is having a bubble bath, more flashbacks from the rainbow room and Hawkins massacre and something is being filmed inside the Wheeler's house

April 6 / 2024

Eddie's actor says he knows if Eddie is coming back but he's not gonna say it...

April 7 / 2024

Not sure about this but it could be a new decoration around the mansion

April 9 / 2024

Some new pictures from the filming at the mansion and it seems Joyce and Hopper are there in that scene too, parked outside... There's also a video and the lights make it look like maybe the police is involved!

Millie posted a new old picture of her in character with the vines of the upside down in the background

to be continued...

part 001 / part 003

[bylrlve]

Warning! Potential Spoilers for Stranger Things Season 5! Exciting for Bylers!

Total confirmed M*leven scenes so far: kiss in a field in episode one, and rooftop conversation, also likely in episode one. There is a staggered time skip through episode one - unclear if chronological, or through flashbacks, but it means we have no idea when this kiss actually takes place in the chronology of the show.

Despite what Alex insinuates, that is literally it, as far as leakers know, until episode 3. Everyone is at the mansion set in that episode for at least one scene, prior to splitting off into groups and venturing into the upside down in episode 4. One presumes they may interact in the mansion scene, but even that is unknown. That literally is it up to episode 6, which is what they’re filming now - as far as leakers are aware, but it’s pretty clear when you look at Finn’s schedule vs Millie’s.

(Gifs from a video by @byler-endgayme)

Meanwhile, this is what has leaked about Byler so far:

Episode 2; the bike ride. Ep 2 according to the Twitter stranger things update account. If this is a school run in the morning, Will may be living at the Wheelers - supported by the bts pic with seven chairs at the table. If not, he’s likely just visiting Mike at the house - but it still shows that Will is part of Mike’s domestic routine, and that he occupies a partner role.

A lot happens for/to the wheelers in episode 2: karen possibly gets injured here, holly gets taken here apparently, Mike gets hurt at the hospital along with several other people (confirmed) and Will shows up crying and blaming himself. Rovickie, jancy, and byler are there: Will is there for Mike, El is not.

Episode 3: everyone is at the mansion set before breaking off into UD groups. This includes Mike, Will, El, and it’s notable that, from context, it seems like it dovetails into Mike and Will choosing each other as partners for… (life) the Upside Down.

Episode 4: the flashback with 8yo Will, 8yo Mike, and 13yo Jonathan. Will and Jon don’t speak, Mike does.

Episode 6: a scene at a church covered in vines with just Mike and Will.

The scenes at the farm with Mike, Robin, Will, and apparently Vickie happen around 503-4, and Mike a and Will are wearing the same clothes in the hand-stack picture as in the leaked Duffer birthday video from early February - see @will80sbyers and @justmy-account’s excellent production masterposts. Mike apparently has his own subplot with Robin, and we know Robin and Will have 1:1 scenes…

There’s been some kerfuffle over a an actor named Jacob Moran being followed on Instagram by Noah recently - but he’s followed Noah, Caleb, and Jamie for years, and as he was working on a project in Atlanta until recently, it seems more likely that he’s a friend of Noah’s than that he’s Will’s NPC Love Interest. Once again, that trail goes cold…

Speaking of, it’s amusing and frustrating to me that when some random acc on Twitter says Will has an NPC Love Interest people pay attention, but when Mytimetoshinehello, a reliable enough leak account, first says in May that he has a love interest and then privately DMS people saying it’s a new character, only to privately tweet to paid subscribers (ie not for attention) saying that they hear it is Mike, people don’t pick up on it. Of course, the UpsideDownScoops account did delete their tweet and proceed to bullshit about why it’s not Mike, so…

Big Screen Leaks is a very reliable general spoilers acc that announced they had st5 spoilers in may 2023. They said on Sunday, during a q&a, that they’re not sharing anything… something weird is going on. They also follow MTTSH.

Noah and MTTSH both had a similar trajectory. The latter went from privately saying in DMs that it’s not Mike to saying to their subs that it is. The former went from being pessimistic when he had the first few scripts to going on TT live right before filming in january and saying ‘byler endgame byler kiss’ very excitedly - he had up to episode 6. They got the ep 7 script in March, and on March 27 he liked a tiktok showing Mike and Will’s BTS pics with a boyfriends 💙💛’ caption.

The statement by the duffers that we’re returning to s1 dynamics is interesting, given that Mike and Will are together so much while Mike and El aren’t. Re: Mike, perhaps they mean that his primary focus is keeping Will… with an ending of finding new romance, perhaps? All in all? I’m so hyped.

TLDR: Bylers are eating no matter what, in terms of screentime and content. M*levens… sad trombone noise.

UPDATE TO ADD: https://x.com/byrhop/status/1811804426492907787?s=46

[autistic-robin]

more dynamics i need to see in st5 for my mental wellbeing

1. el and dustin. that’s it send post. they were genuinely so sweet in season 1 and i miss their mad scientist/test subject vibe immensely. i know el and lucas are going to be paired up this season because of their shared connection (polyamory) to max, but i would love to see more scenes between dustin and el— maybe some lighthearted bonding over their matching leg injuries or daddy issues.

2. mike and robin. i don’t think you understand i need this like i need air. will has already had his gay awakening he doesn’t need a queer life coach!! mike on the other hand is out here in the TRENCHES. this man is down critically horrendously morifyingly BAD for will but is convinced el needs him and that will could never reciprocate his feelings. he needs robin’s gay intuition and advice if anyone does.

3. steve and jonathan. HELLO??? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HELLO???? i know this is pretty much guaranteed to happen in st5 because full-circle character development and hammering in themes and blah blah blah but i’m still gonna talk about it because listen. steve got his shit rocked by jonathan one (1) time and immediately decided “fuck my idiot friends” developed a moral conscience and SHOWED UP AT HIS HOUSE to apologize. he wasn’t there for nancy he had no idea nancy was there!!! he bought jonathan a new camera!!! he was so respectful of nancy and jon even when nancy dumped his ass a season later!!! yet we never get closure between him and jonathan or even a conversation and i’m PISSED about it. matt and ross duffer rectify this or else.

4. hopper and jonathan and will. you see the vision. these kids have never had a stable father figure who truly understands them (i love bob but he was only there for st2 and was sweet but naive) and everything they’ve been through. jonathan DESPERATELY needs to be de-parentified and released from the emotional burden of constantly putting will and joyce before his own needs and dreams, and hopper desperately needs to feel like he can protect his family instead of “cursing” them. will needs a loving father figure who supports his queer identity, and hopper only had a fire lit under him in s1 when joyce mentioned it could have been a hate crime. this is like textbook recipe for healing and closure for these characters.

5. joyce and karen? i just think it would be neat. we know karen’s getting more involved this season and i think she should get to be a little gay for joyce as a treat. we had crumbs of their dynamic in s1 and on a more sincere note i honestly think joyce could help give karen the courage to leave ted or demand better from him moving forward.

6. nancy and mike. if they don’t have a genuine conversation i’ll actually be fuming raging pulling my hair out. i get it i get that they’re both emotionally repressed but GOD i wish we had more moments with them talking about their trauma or empathizing with each other’s survivor’s guilt and crippling savior complexes. all the “max and mike are the same character in a different font” business is very valid and i agree madwheeler is like ten shots of espresso injected directly into the bloodstream HOWEVER, nancy and mike’s traumas and emotional issues are so so similar please let them talk about it!!!!

7. steve and robin???? please for the love of god????? literally what the fuck was happening in s4 they were NOT given enough screentime together. not cool. i want them BACK on their queerplatonic bullshit in s5, fully codependent disgustingly clingy like god intended.

8. jonathan and el. i just want them to be siblings together!!! we got a lot of willel sibling vibes in s4 and some sweet jon-and-will moments, but i would love for them to delve into jonathan and el’s dynamic. this girl is a big reason why will was saved in s1 and we just… never really see the byerses address that? jonathan has a lottt of self-blaming tendencies when it comes to will and i’d love for el to help remind him he isn’t responsible for protecting and saving his brother all the time. conversely, i’d love for jonathan to remind el that she’s just a kid and that the weight of the world shouldn’t be on her shoulders. they’re both really soft-spoken and sweet characters with hard veneers and i feel like they’d pair well together for more emotional scenes.

9. literally the entire byers-hopper family they are the heart and soul of the show and i will never forgive the duffer brothers for losing that in s3-4 in favor of expanding the scope of the story. i miss them.

10. steve and el. i would maim and kill for this dynamic actually. both of them are involved in love triangles and have arcs centered around independency and platonic/found familial love, and steve has his whole mom-of-the-group shtick that could be really endearing paired with el’s plucky weird-little-girl vibe. idk i just think they would be a cute team, maybe paired with dustin or lucas.

11. stoncy and robin. literally give me this team or give me death. i miss stoncy’s iconic end-of-season-1 monster-hunting trio dynamic SO MUCH i would give anything for them to go on a sidequest and really just hash it all out with each other. and robin could offer steve moral support and comic relief— while we’re on the subject i would also kill to see her and jonathan interact!! like they are so similar in that brooding-noncomformist way and i feel like they would either immediately gravitate toward each other based on values OR immediately clash due to their personality differences. jonathan is all quiet and avoidant and robin can be… A Lot (said with love) when she’s not masking like s3. i just think they’d be funny together.

12. this is devolving quickly so scott clarke and the party. no i will not elaborate. thank you for your time

[michaelswilliam]

ok idk if this is me wishing it or it could count as st5 prediction/speculation but since we got that pic of will, mike, holly biking around and holly is like 90% confirmed to be the missing kid in S5EP2, imagine if storyline goes like this:

EP1 is when the "what painting?" conversation happens between mike and el

i don't think this is when they will break up, but mike discovering that all will said to him was not from el, would be the seed of him questioning the state of his relationship with el

S4 Mike still think that the most important thing in his life is being El's boyfriend, but him realizing that El might not love or need him in the way he thought she would would be the catalyst of him starting to accept that this relationship might not be something worth continuing

I don't think Mike has clocked Will's feelings towards him yet by the time he finds out the painting wasnt commissioned by El

Will comes out to his mother, mike, el, lucas and dustin

it will be heartwarming and sweet, el and joyce will immediately tell him that he's so brave, lucas and dustin will be shocked at first but they will quickly move past it and go in for the hug

mike, however, will stand, alone and frozen on his feet. i think this will definitely causes him to question his own feelings. realizing that homosexuality isnt something thats a taboo. that it is real and his best friend is gay. boys can be.

this is when his own internalized homophobia will surmount, when he will question his own sexuality, and it will scare and confuse him and he will remove himself from the premise. he needs to get away

everyone, especially will of course will take it as mike being homophobic and unaccepting

el might confront him, which can lead to another fight. adding further cracks to their relationship

will might try to talk to him, sad scene. will genuinely thinking it might be the end of their friendship

but mike will pivot the conversation, he will bring up the painting.

mike tells will that he is angry that he'd lied to him.

will apologizes, but mike is still irrationally angry

he accuses will of ruining his relationship w/ el. which got will confused bc didnt he help mike to say i love you to el?

(mike of course wont be able to rationalize this. inside he is angry because he realizes that this relationship shouldve died in the first place, and now he's at the point where he thinks he cannot break up with el. not after the confession.)

"it's not my fault that you don't love her the way you said you do!" will cries out, "i'm sorry for lying to you about the painting, alright? but you can't blame me for whatever is going on between you two."

"but do you?"

"what?"

"do you love me the way you said you did?"

"what do you mean-"

mike steps closer to him, "everything you told me about how el felt towards me, all of it was you, wasn't it?"

and because ST loves interruptions, this is when something or someone cut their conversation, leaving it hanging in the air. this is when everything related to will shifts for mike.

mike will start to clue in will's feelings for him and realizing that the idea of being loved romantically by him actually delights him.

mike will cope with his own sexuality and feelings for will vs relationship with el, he might out some distance against will and el as he does this.

will is heartbroken, he thinks their friendship is forever broken because will has ruined mike and el's relationship with his lie and will knows that mike probably knows his feelings for him and hates him even deeper because of it

this is when vecna comes in and fucks with will's head. starts to isolate him with his surroundings.

EP2: apocalyptic hawkins, everyone is assigned with something. someone from the adults assigned mike and will to do an errand while accompanying holly to go to a friend's house or a park or whatever.

will might try to protest, but holly insists for will to come bc she enjoys his company and mike reluctantly agrees

tense moments shared between byler with holly as the buffer

something happens to holly, she's taken. this will be the event that causes mike and will to stick together throughout the season, confronting each other and their feelings for each other.

YEAH SO IDK I WANT THIS TO HAPPEN IN ST5

[8flix]

Before you go. Any comments on byler? 🎤

Ah, yes. The byler predicament. Allow me to muddy the waters even more.

But first, a disclaimer: to be clear, I have no conclusive/confirmed information about season 5. What I know are inferences made from previous leaks, combined with what we now know as fact.

A little more on that before I get to Byler:

The leak came from outside of Netflix; a third-party private company that offers closed captioning services (as confirmed by Forbes, then eventually Netflix). The leaked videos of Heartstopper Se3 and Arcane Se2 are low resolution (640x266 / 640x480) encodes of unlocked edits (ie: edits that are subject to change at the network's discretion), and devoid of VFX. If you're a fan of either show, don't waste your time because it will only spoil the finished product.

That being said, I doubt that there is any video of ST5 episodes 1 through 3, as purported by the so-called "hacker" (I use that in "quotes" because any schlub with an email address could have accessed the server without restriction -- the login app had no restrictions to the inhouse videos).

So, aside from the fact that Netflix will aggressively pursue civil and criminal charges against the source (if they ever find the person) -- a threat that any legit hacker would certainly ignore (unauthorized access to a computer network is already a federal crime, regardless of whether or not something was "taken" and/or released publicly) -- I think there won't be any video of ST5 leaked because it doesn't exist.

A legit hacker would have released it already, defying both Netflix and the FBI, and in such away that would make tracking them down impossible. What is there to lose? Nothing for a legit "hacker." And let's be honest: this wasn't a "hack" of top-secret government documents. And the "hack" will not cause long-term financial damage to a publicly traded company like Netflix. In an election year, the Feds have more important cyber criminals to go after than a scriptkiddy looking for notoriety in the Fortnight Discord app.

Realistically, it's doubtful more than a cease-and-desist letter from Netflix to that Twitter influencer dude, and perhaps firing the IT guy who forgot to flick the privacy toggle on the login app at the closed-captioning company, will come to fruition. And like I said, a legit hacker has zero fucks to give, so threats of a civil lawsuit or prison time would mean nothing to them because their OPSEC would be 100%.

Also, it's my belief that no videos of ST5 will come out because of how TV series are made. Principal photography of ST5 is around 12 months (December 2023 - December 2024). That's a 5-day work week, 16-hours per day. Not including holidays, reshoots, and unforeseen delays, about 48 - 50 weeks in total -- so, about 250 - 300 days of shooting (a movie is often 30 - 120 shooting days). Post production -- which includes editing, music, VFX rendering, ADR, etc. -- will take at least 6 months. For a $200 million series like ST5, 4 - 6 weeks of per-episode-editing is not unheard of. Stranger Things is arguably a Netflix legacy. It's not only going to be protected, but perfected.

Season 5 is being released in two-parts. Part 2 will likely still be in post-production when Part 1 is released. To give you an idea of how close producers come to hard deadlines for series: I watched (legit) screeners of Locke & Key Se2 -- the final two episodes -- before they were complete -- 2 weeks before the world premiere. It's that close.

ST5 shoots chronologically, with some exceptions. Meaning, they film in order of episode. (Movies, on the other hand, film according to scene and schedule -- scenes that take place in the same location, but spread throughout the movie and take place on different days, are shot consecutively). The leak happened in late June (apparently), which would mean that episodes 1 through 3 would have been shot and edited by May. That's not realistic. Like, at all. If I were a betting man, I'd say that episode 1 is still being edited as I write this. There is still 4 months of principal photography remaining.

My expectation is to see trailer #1 during the Super Bowl in February. And October 31, 2025 as a release date for Part 1.

My expectation is a December release for Part 2.

Hardcore hype and teasing for 10 months.

This is my guess; based on personal experience with shows and movies that are not Netflix properties.

Okay, so, Byler...

If you believe the 2022 "definitely not leaked Se4 scripts" are definitely real... then Will is "fully resigned to knowing that he’s just ripped off the Band-Aid." #Byler, as we know it, will never come to be and #Mileven is endgame.

Or, if you believe the "definitely not leaked Se4 scripts" are definitely cap, then Byler is, in fact, the real endgame.

Given the circumstances, I am obviously the former. And, as much as I hate to say it, Will and Mike will never be a couple. 99% confident about that one.

Whichever side you take, in the words of Dr. Emmet Brown, "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally." (hint)

Will Will find love? No. There are bigger plans for Will. Conversely, there are plans for El that go way beyond teenage love. Again, if you believe the fake scripts to be real, then it will become apparent in ST5 that Will and El share a unique connection. My inference is that they are related. If not in the current timeline, then in the alternate timeline and reality (that will be revealed in Se5). "Young versions" of "Will, El, Mike, and the others," have already been cast to appear in Se5. But, IMAO, they're not the "young versions," but the alternate timeline/reality versions. Back to the Future, and Terminator are huge influences. As is the JJ Abrams movie "Super 8" (watch the movie, there are so many similarities with it, and Stranger Things).

I'll also add that there were scenes filmed in 2020/2021 that were meant to be included in season 5. I think -- if memory serves -- it's in or at a church and touches on the theme of "occult murders". So, I wouldn't be surprised if Eddie Munson makes an appearance.

In my professional opinion as a writer (excluding what I may or may not know about ST5): regardless of what scripts you've read -- official, unofficial, fake, real -- the series endgame has already been revealed on screen. I'll explain:

In general terms, for any television series with a definitive finale, and a pre-determined ending, writers follow a blueprint: specific plot points that must revealed along the way so that the story makes sense to viewers -- even to those with conflicting opinions.

If the writing is done correctly, then (for example) when something is revealed in episode 25, viewers will experience a lightbulb moment: "Oh yeah, I remember the references during episodes 2, 5, and 15."

So, using the Byler vs Mileven plotlines, it's plausible that either outcome is still possible. That's the brilliance of Stranger Things' writers' room (I say that sincerely).

Clues have been dropping since episode 101. Spoken dialogue, secondary dialogue, music selection (read the lyrics), character names, specific dates, shooting locations, pop culture references, carefully choreographed shots and scenes, numbers, dates, background props... Everything contains a piece of a puzzle that reinforces what is already known, and reveal what will soon become obvious.

Seriously, I don't know the ending of ST. And honestly, in my experience, it's more likely than not that only the Duffers and a small handful of Netflix/21 Laps execs know the real ending. For a series as big as Stranger Things (with an estimated season 5 budget surpassing $200 million), don't be surprised if more than one ending is filmed. Certainly, more than one has been written. It's not uncommon to leak misleading (but highly plausible) information on purpose. Netflix marketing peeps are top in their field, and outside-the-box thinkers.

What I do know is that the endgame -- be it canonical or other -- will completely blow you away and go down in history as Netflix's most watched finale.

Or, it will be the biggest let down since The Sopranos ending -- the first one AND the do-over.

[chirpsythismorning]

Finally watched the silent film Wings (1927) and bro... it’s so gay.

I remember first coming across it because I saw it was loosely being referred to as the first gay kiss in film history. I say loosely because it's technically not categorized as a queer film, with these two characters not actually being explicit love interests.

Though because I still thought it was cool, and also because one of the characters kind of looked like Will in the shot of them kissing, I added it to my ST5 DNA bingo board for fun.

But then watching it for myself, there was a lot more queer-coding than I expected.

In the film, the two men Jack Powell and David Armstrong actually start out as rivals, fighting for the love of Sylvia Lewis. Though as time goes on, after enlisting in the army and fighting alongside each other, they become very close friends.

In the end, their relationship gets the spotlight in a way that I can't help but find fucking insane when it comes to the idea of this film actually being used as inspiration for s5. Because seriously, holy shit.

I didn't mean what I said about the picture? THE PAINTING!?

I knew it-- all the time-- HE KNEW?!?!?!

What's even more painfully ironic about this scene, is that it gets interrupted by the wing of the plane turning, only for it to come to a complete stop. And I was instantly hit with that one sequence in s4, with the tapes in the lab turning transitioning to the wheels of the plane turning, followed by Mike's land in Hawkins aka Wheeler has arrived.

Here in Wings, the wing turning and then stopping, is to hint that this character (the character paralleling Mike) went from alive, to now dead.

NOW ALL I CAN THINK ABOUT IS MIKE DYING (temporarily) AND THEM CUTTING TO A WHEEL SPINNING THEN STOPPING.

[emily-mooon]

Ok I don’t do analysis too often but knowing that Alvvay’s song After The Earthquake is on Finn’s possible ST5 playlist, I have to at least make an attempt cause I’m a HUGE Alvvays fan!

After listening to it again, it really does fit S4-S5 Mike

Opening lyrics 100% can connect to the whole roller rink scene and just Mike and El’s relationship falling apart:

These next lyrics I think go along well with the whole fight scene they have in El’s room (it could also work with Byler too ngl)

Now these last lyrics here are the kicker:

I think this fits with mike falling in love with Will? Then again I’m not too sure but that was just my immediate thought

And don’t get me started on the chorus lyric ‘flowers at your feet’ (you know flowers being in S4 a lot) and just the title in general as the portal split to everyone else is just an earthquake to them

Anyways here’s the song if you want to give it a listen (I highly recommend it’s a good song):

Feel free to add on to this if you have your own ideas as I’m not the best at explaining my exact thoughts. These were just the ones I could mainly think of that I could decently explain

[greenfiend]

So now that we have gotten a basic idea of st5 how do you think DID will be executed into the show?

We have little bits and pieces of ST5, but 99.9% of it is still fairly unknown to us.

But if the theory is correct, and the UD is Will’s mindscape… which is comparable to another planet and some characters are “aliens” aka alters… I do think things will go down roughly like this:

Will will be the major focus next season. This point kind of goes without saying and it seems to be the case from what we know.

I highly doubt they will explicitly tell us Will’s diagnosis. They especially will not use the term Dissociative Identity Disorder. Why? Because it didn’t exist until the mid-90s. Prior to that, it was referred to as Multiple Personality Disorder. I think the diagnosis will be implied, it will be up to us to interpret. The focus will likely be on Will’s trauma and how the UD is, essentially, his brain attempting to cope with said trauma. This implies that Will somehow developed manifestation powers… he willed these things into existence. The good and the bad.

In the beginning of ST5, we will soon discover explicitly just how little Will remembers (from the UD and from his past).

Vecna will likely haunt Will with his past. Forcing him to recall some events of his past but intimidating him into silence. Making him feel the need to isolate from others. This will make us continue to believe that he is the main villain of the series… it won’t be until later on that he will be revealed to be mere symptom of the problem, but not the problem itself. (I’ve said this before but I do believe Vecna is a Persecutor Alter).

We will finally see Will begin to lash out, and push others away (or at least try to). In ST2, Owens mentioned that Will would likely exhibit personality changes and lash out due to his PTSD, but we never did see that in Will. We did see it in El, however, in that season…

Mike will remember things from the past as well, and he’ll finally understand Will’s code at the very beginning of the series. Will told Mike (in code) “it was a seven, the Demogorgon got me”, Will remembered what happened to him in the past prior to his vanishing! After he went to the UD, his memories became vague… Mike figuring this out is important. They are both the “keys” in the “two man operation”. This is likely where that flashback of a younger Mike, Will, and Jonathan will come in. It won’t be fluff like people are expecting… it’s likely related to something dark.

Mike and Will’s pasts are very intertwined I think… more than we know. Not just in a romantic sense. There’s a reason why their initials are the literal upside down versions of each other (when using Will’s mother’s maiden name). WM -> MW.

Although I do think that El, Vecna, Max, etc are alters of Will’s… they all are also connected to Mike as well. He is a factor in their creation (IMO!). I think they are both involved with creation within the show. It’s not all Mike, nor all Will.

We know El has an unconventional ending, and it’s been alluded to being sad/bittersweet. This makes perfect sense to me when looking at the story as a whole. El exists as a protector. She is E.T. to Mike, and Atreyu to Will. She is the one who takes over for Will when he hides (he likes to hide after all). But because this is a coming of age story, she needs to leave. The boys need to grow up on their own without the superhero. Their courage and love for each other will lead to them becoming their own superheroes. El will live on in the UD but a better version of it (foreshadowed when she stands alone in the UD at the end of ST4). She will “fuse”/“combine” with Will in the end (foreshadowed by that hug between Will, El, and Dustin… notice how El disappears into Will?)

Once El fuses with Will (and Vecna), he will finally be able to face the truth of his past. We will be able to re-contextualize lab flashback scenes (and other character’s flashback scenes) as altered memories of Will’s past with his own Papa (Lonnie Byers).

Max is a bit of a wild card for me. The fact that she apparently watches Ghost (1990) with Lucas tells us a lot though! This movie is about lovers re-connecting through supernatural means. It’s famous for the scene where a psychic (Whoopi Goldberg) allows the ghost of a husband to “use [her] body” to reconnect with his grieving wife. Could Will perhaps allow Max to use his body as a way to briefly reconnect with Lucas? Perhaps. Man, that’d be an interesting concept I will say.

Anyway, sorry for the late response! These are the thoughts I have so far regarding connecting the DID theory with leaks/spoilers we know of thus far.

[aemiron-main]

Brennry Kane: Henry Kane, Henry Creel, ST5 Leaks, and Brenner (ft The Henward Brenner Merge)

So, on Discord the other day, I mentioned that the new S5 leaks of Jamie/Henward reminds me of Kane from Poltergeist 2:

And FOREVER ago on Discord, I was talking about Poltergeist 2, the parallels to the Creels, and Kane’s parallels to Brenner:

And so, now, I want to talk about both of those things/how the parallels between this Henward leak & Henry Kane connect to the parallels between Henry Kane and Brenner.

But before we get into that, let’s do a quick overview of who Henry Kane is.

Who Is Henry Kane?

So, in the first Poltergeist movie, there’s a ghost called The Beast:

And then, in the second Poltergeist movie, it’s revealed that The Beast was once a man named Reverend Henry Kane, who led his cult followers to their deaths in order to gain more power, and now, Kane/The Beast is walking the earth once more and appearing as he did in life, despite being long-dead (although there's a whole thing re: how he can't technically actually die which makes me think of the whole "Mummies never die" line from S1 versus Brenner Sr's mummy imagery):

Now, let’s look at the parallels between this S5 BTS Henward vs Henry Kane.

S5 BTS Henward vs Henry Kane

So, when we look at this shot of S5 BTS Henward with this blonde girl, it’s definitely a parallel to Kane with Carol Anne:

And, of course, Henward’s whole outfit with the fedora etc is very similar to Kane’s outfit.

But let’s take a look at Brenner versus Henry Kane, because that’s where the real similarities lie.

Brenner vs Henry Kane

So, what similarities does Henry Kane have to Brenner (including Martin Brenner, Richard Brenner, TFS Brenenr Jr, and Brenner Dr/Captain Brenner under the same “Brenner” umbrella because god knows who is who at this point)? Well:

Both Kane and Brenner shownup to families’ doors, claiming to want to “help” them, and the scene of Kane showing up at the Freeling family’s house is very, very similar to the scene of Brenner showing up at the Wheeler house in S1.

In Poltergeist 2, Kane shows up at the Freeling house and talks to the parents (especially the father, Steven) and claims that he’s trying to help them, and then, in ST1, Brenner shows up at the Wheeler house, talks to them (and Ted answers the door, much like Steven Freeling) and claims that he’s trying to help them/help Mike:

And Kane also talks about how Steven “doesn’t have to believe him,” versus Brenner’s fixation on belief and trust & the constant use of the word “belief” surrounding Brenner:

(And also, the whole “asking for permission” thing makes me think of the emphasis on SAYING things in TFS and how that could tie to the whole belief thing, like I talked about in this post and this post.)

Both Kane and Brenner are connected to priests/priest imagery.

Kane’s full title is “Reverend Kane,” as he was a priest/cult leader.

Brenner is frequently connected to priest imagery/reference in ST, like how I talked in this post quite awhile back about the parallels between Brenner and the priest from The Exorcist & the idea of Brenner masquerading as a priest as part of the exorcism done at the Creel House.

There’s also the whole “Mr Newby vs Father Newby” thing versus Brenner Sr’s parallels to Mr/Father Newby.

Both Kane and Brenner are connected to vampire imagery/are vampire coded.

Kane can’t enter a house without permission, just like a vampire (and also is weirdly “immortal” like a vampire):

And Brenner has a TON of vampire references/coding. For example, in TFS, he literally takes Henry’s blood, and also doesn’t age at the end of TFS despite a 20 year time jump. 15 year old Brenner also has dark/slicked-down, Dracula-esque hair. Plus, like I talked about in this post, in-show Brenner straight up doesn’t have a reflection in some of the NINA scenes, just like vampires lacking reflections.

TFS Brenner also behaves eerily similarly to Lestat from Interview with the Vampire (which also has me thinking about the fact that in-show Henward also behaves a bit and looks like Lestat during the 1979 massacre versus the fact that during those massacre scenes, he suddenly has the Brenner-styled hair, and the idea that Brenner may have been “possessing”/puppeting him within NINA during the massacre, something I’ll touch on again in a bit), which is on the S4 board:

(Which, all of Brenner’s vampire coding versus Vecna getting referred to as “sleeping Dracula,” in S4 is yet another point for Brecna)

And also, as mentioned earlier, the vampire-coded scene of Kane talking to the family & trying to get permission to come into the house in Poltergeist is very, very similar to the S1 scene of Brenner at the Wheeler house.

Costuming parallels & visual similarities

Kane is an old man with white hair and a black suit, and Brenner has a very similar look, especially in S1, being an old man with white hair and a black suit:

Kane and Brenner’s shared demon imagery and The Beast vs The Brennergorgon

So, not only was Kane The Beast back in Poltergeist 1, but in Poltergeist 2, Kane also ends up shapeshifting into this weird, grey creature that Steven spits out (much like Will spitting up the UD slug):

Which, that grey creature form that Kane shapeshifts into reminds me quite a lot of the ST Demogorgon:

And Kane also gets referred to as “a man filled with a demon”:

And so, then, when it comes to Brenner, that brings us to The Brennergorgon. I talked in this post about Brenner and the ST “Demogorgon,” versus the DND Demogorgon & the fact that Demogorgon in DND is the “Prince of Demons,” and the idea that Brenner represents the Demogorgon & the idea that Brenner was the demon in the Creel house (see: Victor talking about how the demon took his kids versus Brenner’s longrunning habit of stealing children):

But one thing I didn’t really talk about in that main Brennergorgon post (but have talked about elsewhere) is the idea that in addition to Brenner symbolically representing the DND Demogorgon, Brenner (one of the Brenners, at least), is likely ALSO the grey shapeshifting Doppelganger-Demogorgon creature, which would then be another parallel between Brenner and Kane, with both of them transforming/shapeshifting into grey supernatural creatures.

Kane possessing people vs Brenner’s possession stuff

So, Kane is able to possess people- he possesses Steven Freeling during Poltergeist 2.

And then, when it comes to Brenner, there’s what I just talked about in the last bullet point re: Brenner being the demon in the Creel house & the way that demons possess people (like Kane does) versus Brenner’s demon imagery.

But then there’s ALSO stuff like what I’ve talked about in this post re: NINA, and the idea of Brenner “possessing” people (such as Henward, and especially NINA Henward) in a similar way to how Agent Smith “possesses” Bane in The Matrix 3:

And hell, the way that Kane possesses Steven is really similar to the way that Smith possesses Bane- in both cases, the possessed person keeps their usual appearance (so Steven and Bane both look normal on the outside, just like how Henward looks like Henward in those BTS pics), but their mannerisms and speech patterns are altered (Steven gains Kane’s mannerisms, Bane gains Smith’s mannerisms), which a.) is just like the weird Brenner-esque Henward during NINA, and b.) is just like what I talked about in this post (a post I’m also going to come back to later in this current post) regarding the fact that this new BTS S5 Henward shares mannerisms (and costuming parallels) with TFS Brenner:

Both Kane and Brenner are connected to invisibility

Kane is able to turn invisible. Meanwhile, Brenner Sr’s bandages make him look eerily similar to The Invisible Man-

-and the whole point of Project Rainbow was to try and make the Eldridge and its crew (of which Brenner Sr was captain) invisible:

So, point is, Kane and Brenner have bunch of connections, and while Henward and Kane also have connections, the connections between Kane and Brenner are much stronger, and the connections between Kane and Henward are likely due to some of the weird Brenner-Henward connections/the weird Brenner-Henward merge stuff that I’ve talked about before, and that I’m going to talk about again in this next section.

How The Brenner-Kane Stuff Could Connect To S5 BTS Kane-Paralleled Henward & A Brenner-Henward Merge

I talked in this post recently about the fact that the Henward in these S5 leaks not only dresses similarly to Brenner, with the vest outfit & very similar style of pants, but also does the same “hands clasped behind the back” pose that TFS Brenner does:

And there’s also what I’ve talked about in posts like this post, this post, and this post, re: TFS Brenner and Henry and the weird connections between them/the weird “Brenner is somehow Henry but wasnt always actually Henry” stuff, as well as what I’ve talked about in posts like this post, this post, this post, and this post, re: one of the in-show Brenners getting merged with one of the Henwards like how Seth Brundle got merged with a fly in The Fly.

And so, with all of that in mind, PLUS what I just talked about in the previous section of this post re: how Henry Kane is connected not just to Henry Creel, but also (and more strongly) to Brenner, I wonder if Henry/Edward is trapped with Brenner in some sort of Brenner-Henward merged/if Henry/Edward is being “possessed” by Brenner like how Kane possesses Steveb and how Agent Smith possesses Bane.

And so, I wonder if we’ll get a scene of Henry acting normal towards that blonde girl (Holly, Jane, Daughter Virginia, whoever she is) versus his demeanour suddenly changing into a more Brenner-esque demeanour & if we’ll get a parallel to TFS Alice’s “you’re not Henry, you’re not him,” scene, and if this blonde girl might pull out some sort of line about how Henry’s “not stuck/lost in there/in a Place, but instead, is stuck/lost in Him/in Brenner’s mind” or something along those lines.

Which, something extra interesting that’s stuck out to me re: the idea of a person as a place/being stuck inside a person/inside a mind etc is the connections between peoples’ names versus the names of places in ST.

For example, like I also talked about in this post recently, Nancy’s fake name when she goes to Pennhurst is “Ruth,” versus “Ruth, Nevada” being pointed out to us in S4 (and TFS Henry and TFS Brenner both being from Nevada):

And like James talked about, Henward’s S5 outfit is also a parallel to Indiana Jones- Indiana Jones, who adopts a name (Indiana) that’s the same name as a place (the state of Indiana, which is also where Hawkins is).

And then, of course, we also have the “you can’t spell America without Erica” moment:

Point is, ST has a little running pattern of associating the names of people with the names of places, which could then connect to the whole idea of a person as a place/being trapped inside of a person.

Conclusion

Long story short: Brenner’s fingers are all over this, as usual, and I REALLY don’t think that this S5 BTS Henward scene & the Henry Kane parallels are going to end up with Henry himself being this evil, Kane-esque figure. Instead, I think that there’s something deeper going on, and that Brenner is definitely involved.

Even if I’m entirely wrong about the whole “this S5 Henward has Brenner merged with him” idea, the overall point is just that this isn’t solely a Henward parallel re: Kane, and that there’s more going on here than “Henry is being creepy and evil.”

(And also, as a final little sidenote, it’s interesting to me that Kane took his cult followers down into a cave to die so that he could harvest their souls to gain power versus TFS Henry having gotten lost in the cave in Nevada. And Kane also absorbed the souls of his followers, which is what gave him extra powers, which makes me think of the whole “when 001 kills, he consumes” thing versus the idea of a version of 001 having absorbed a Brenner and the whole Brecna thing/Brenner being connected to the “consuming people/absorbing people” stuff, especially considering the Brenner-Demogorgon Doppelganger stuff & the way that DND Doppelgangers can consume/absorb the personalities, memories etc of their victims before shapeshifting into them)

[henrysglock]

Thoughts on the scene in ST4 where Brenner says he cared for and loved the lab children and Henry and that he tried to help and understand Henry? Brenner goes so far as to say he had failed him and I mean, idk, it seems like there’s a lot to dig into there.

(+ him having Eleven looking for Henry, I mean, why do you think he did that + what was Brenner planning to do if he found him?? Idk, I was doing a rewatch and that scene in particular was just really interesting)

I think there's a degree of genuine care in it, as much as I also think Brenner was desperate to clean up the mess his project had spiraled into.

He does look genuinely pained when he talks about Henry and the loss therein, and I have no doubt Brenner considered his work with Henry a failure in multiple respects, some closer to the heart than others. At least per TFS, there was a degree of love and a degree of Brenner genuinely wanting to help Henry with the Mindflayer—even if that was also helping his own personal goals. How far that love extends is hard to quantify until we know more about what the lab was really like for Henry outside the myopic lenses of NINA and Vecna.

I have no idea what Brenner was planning, should he have retrieved Henry. No doubt Henry would have been chipped again at the least, but I also wonder how far Brenner would have gone to save Henry's life at all. With how much the military wants El dead, and she's the most obedient and useful to Brenner, paired with the line in TFS re: Brenner saving at least one version of Henry from the DOD chopping block...I don't know if he would have saved Henry or sacrificed him (and that's not even touching on what the "right"/kind thing to do would have been).

Is a retrieved Henry worth fighting for, in Brenner's eyes? Or does he just grieve the loss as final, now viewing Henry as an unsalvageable rogue experiment that he needs to dispose of to clean up his mess?

Lots of questions to close up in ST5, and even then I think there will be some about Henry and Brenner that are left to speculation.

[reikunrei]

"More than just an ordinary human."

It's that time again! Another Doctor Who episode wahoo!! Let's check out season 3, episode 6:

"The Lazarus Experiment"

So, Lazarus is, obviously, taken from the biblical figure of Lazarus who was brought back from the dead by Jesus. The story of his revival is meant to exemplify the power Jesus has over death itself, but I won't be talking about that in-depth here; the Bible-talk is more James's wheelhouse lol.

As it applies to this Doctor Who episode, it's not so much about coming back from the dead, but rather about cheating death. Professor Richard Lazarus has created an invention, which he calls a "miracle" (the same word used by Patty in reference to "Henry's" powers in tfs), that will essentially de-age anyone who steps inside.

(Peeping the fact that he specifically mentions the moon landing like Mr. Clarke mentions it in st3)

However, there's a catch! He didn't do his proper research! He didn't account for all possible variables! And something in his DNA is trying to change him! (Another tfs word! We love to see it!)

Rejuvenating, you say? Even after the Doctor blows up Lazarus in his monster form and he comes out entirely unscathed? Golly, I wonder who that reminds me of! Anyway.

So basically what happened is Lazarus "changed his own molecular patterns" by "hack[ing] into his own genes" which is SUCH a NINA-ass word to use. Don't even remind me of all the computer stuff that's being pushed in the st5 leaks and updates. This has seemingly activated something in his DNA that's trying to make him change, and that "change" is a giant scorpion-like monster that is absolutely ravenous. Before the Doctor and Martha are looking at his DNA, we see a scene of Dr. Lazarus grabbing a finger-food platter from one of the waitstaff at his invention's unveiling and scarfs it down, saying he's famished, which the Doctor isn't surprised by (it's insinuated that he understands, at least loosely, what's happening because of the Time Lord's ability to regenerate, which always wears them out and makes them very energy-hungry).

In his monster form, Dr. Lazarus drains all the "life-energy" out of several human victims in order to sate his hunger, leaving an empty shell. (Insert Vecna consuming his victims to get stronger, insert "Henry" killing animals in tfs to sate the Shadow and it being much more powerful when "he" finally kills Virginia, insert Max being left an empty body without a soul/life, etc. etc., you get the picture. Not to mention that the Doctor equates it to "squeezing the juice out of an orange" ... I wasn't expecting a little st vr connection, but I'll take it!). He has little to no control over his transformation, and while he can feel it coming on, he can't just snap in and out of it; it simply takes over and he changes. The first time we see him transform, he writhes on the ground in agony and his wife asks if it's "some kind of seizure" (smash cut to "Henry" in tfs seizing).

Later, after some running around, being chased, and doing some thinking, the Doctor explains to Martha that this "thing" (Lazarus) isn't alien, it's "strictly human in origin." This form was becoming "dominant" because the process of de-aging himself likely awoke some dormant genes that "evolution rejected...millions of years ago...forgotten until Lazarus unlocked it by mistake."

A big part of this episode is about hubris. Dr. Lazarus is overconfident in his invention, and he spends ample part of the start of the episode dismissing the Doctor and Martha when they both warn him that something may be wrong/this may be more dangerous than he realizes. On top of Dr. Lazarus seeking out youth/prolonged life, much like the idea that Brenner is looking for some sort of power/immortality of some kind in st (barely even touching on the other weird stuff like Brenner not aging in tfs between 1959-1979), a lot of it made me think of El tearing into Brenner in 4.08, especially her emphasis on him being the monster, on all of this being his fault, all because he couldn't let Henry go. Brenner has constantly been presented to us, throughout all mediums, to be fairly stubborn and determined to get what he wants, even if the results are catastrophic (ie. the number of guards and orderlies who have died helping him with his child dungeon project, all of the children themselves dying in one way or another, even his own ass getting jumped by a demogorgon and then shot to bleed out and "die" in the desert).

Which leads into the other core aspect of this episode: humanity.

Throughout all of Doctor Who, the Doctor makes it clear that he finds humans utterly fascinating, especially in their mundanity. He emphasizes the importance of everyone's individuality and tells everyone they're special and important, even if they don't really "do" anything. Simply being who they are is what makes them matter; they don't need to be useful or supply anything groundbreaking in order to be amazing in his eyes. They exist as humans, and that's all that matters.

In this episode, we see Lazarus talk about how humans, as they are now, are basically inferior. While a large part of his motivations are about the money he'll make off of such an invention, we learn later that he has a distinct and deep fear of death and being defenseless against it. He wants to "change what it means to be human," to give them "a chance...to evolve, to improve" and to make sure he never has to face death like he did as a child: terrified and vulnerable.

We get the two following conversations between the Doctor and Lazarus, one at about the midway point of the episode before shit really hits the fan, and the other is near the very end of the episode after shit has really hit the fan.

This next one is split into several pieces to get in all the lines because they say a lot that jumps out as very important and distinctly Brenner, with some smatterings of One's monologue and some Henry-isms, especially from tfs, and the general presence of many of The Words.

I wanna point out that the Doctor being at the London Blitz is a direct reference to the episodes I talked about in my last dw post. And I find it incredibly interesting that a lot of the original tfs promo was heavily centered around church, like how this final standoff is in a cathedral, even so far as having Mr. Newby originally be listed as Father Newby, etc., despite the final play not being as heavy-handed with the religious imagery. Idk it's just itching something in my brain! I also wanna note that, since it's kinda hard to see here, the camera pans around Lazarus in a counterclockwise circle, following the path of the Doctor as he circles him, and we aaall know how st loves to use circling camera shots like that.

I especially want to touch on the second conversation the Doctor and Lazarus have in the church. The Doctor speaks to him calmly, trying to get him to understand and have compassion for the experience that is being human rather than trying to cheat it, and that living an exceptionally long life really isn't all it's cracked up to be. Even though Lazarus is now a "monster," he's still intensely humanized. He's killed at least four people at this point, but the Doctor doesn't go about simply trying to belittle, dehumanize, or kill him.

When it comes to Brenner, unfortunately, we still don't know much about his past, but we have a lot we can assume or extrapolate, at least based off what tfs has told us and the gaps we can fill in from st itself. We know, at least vaguely, that he and his father had a strained relationship. During the opening sequence of tfs on the USS Eldridge, we hear Captain Brenner talking to his other shipmates about how "it's my kid's birthday today, he told me he hates me."

However, later in the show, Brenner tells "Henry" that his father's return from Dimension X and subsequent death because of it compelled him to join Project Rainbow and devote his life to the cause and figure out what happened. With "Henry's" seeming ability to survive being infected by the Shadow, Brenner tries to tap into that. His main goal in tfs is to make contact with the Shadow and figure out what happened to his father, and since it's then explained that he made more children like "Henry" (specifically the immunity to the Shadow/the shared blood that supposedly gives them that immunity), it's clear he's trying to avoid is father's fate in that way. In short, it very much comes off as an attempt to try and cheat death.

Brenner, throughout the show, often presents what he does as good, both for the children in the lab and for humanity as a whole (though specifically for the US, focused on beating back those nasty commies). Even if he does bad things, it's for the greater good! He has good intentions! That's gotta count for something, right? /s

Both Lazarus and Brenner went into their respective experiments because they thought they could become better than human. Or in Brenner's case, at the very least he could live vicariously through his experiments to feel better than human, which was explicitly touched on in the vr game in clips like this one. As we also see in st4, El tries to call Brenner a monster, but when she relays this thinking to Vecna, he rejects it, and calls Brenner "an ordinary, mediocre man."

Shortly after that first conversation I showed between Lazarus and the Doctor on the rooftop, after Lazarus transforms, there's a sequence where, from inside Lazarus's machine, the Doctor is able to reverse the polarity of the capsule so it reflects energy rather than receive it, and it blasts Lazarus away, turning him back into human form and supposedly killing him.

Right away, with this comment from Martha, Lazarus is equated back to an ordinary human. He's not made to be the "big bad villain" where everyone is glad he's dead, nor is he made out to be this reverent being. He's someone to be pitied. It's decidedly solemn. He was just a man out of his depth who bit off more than he could chew... much like how Brenner is a man out of his depth who bit off more than he could chew.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we learned that Brenner was actively harming himself in his attempt to do… whatever. Much like how Lazarus was harming himself (and others) in order to maintain his new youth, Brenner may be harming himself with his experiments. Whether that be via blood transfusions/consuming blood (see the post I linked from Stav above), or by doing something as drastic as physically combining himself with one of the Henwards, I doubt anything 100% good and rewarding could come from it. Even if he's looking for something like regenerative healing, as we see in Vecna and as hinted by Brenner not being dead despite getting jumped by a demogorgon, what does he have to do to reach that point? What risks are there involved that he may not have accounted for, simply because he would have no idea that they exist in the first place? Just looking at the circumstances of the weird Brenward face combo we get in 4.07… he didn’t exactly wind up in a great spot after combining himself, did he? Plus, while I'm of the mind that Vecna and the guy we see shape the Mind Flayer are two different dudes (James and Em have other posts about this as well), the way it's presented to us implies that Vecna evolved from the MF guy, so there's a sort of compounding that changes in his appearance from mostly-human to mostly-infected-by-the-UD, which... also doesn't seem great.

We can already see how being infected by the Shadow affects people, which is highlighted in Henry not sleeping and barely eating when he's flayed. Hell, Brenner saw what happened to his father after he returned from Dimension X, and he took the lives of several test subjects (many of them children) in his own experiments. He already knows that there are risks and detractions in this work.

At the very end of this dw episode, Lazarus is finally actually killed. Using the organ in the church, the Doctor amplifies its sound using his Sonic Screwdriver to create "hypersonic sound waves" in order to interfere with Lazarus on a molecular level, which is more or less the same thing he did with his machine. Lazarus falls from a high balcony within the church, disoriented by the noise, and turns back into a human upon death. He even reverts back to his "correct" elderly appearance as the Doctor kneels over him and gently shuts his eyes.

We've already seen something similar to this sort of death with Brenner in st4. While I wouldn't say it was a soft moment for him, since El was still clearly rejecting him, she still leaned into his touch, still listened to him, and clearly was grappling with a lot of messy feelings. She, in that moment, wanted to view him as a monster, but she couldn't. Not entirely. That's her Papa! That's someone who, for most of her life, despite every horrible thing he did, took care of her; who said he loved her and held her best interests at heart.

In my mind, this sort of "soft end" is what we should expect for Brenner and Vecna in st5. It could be even softer than what we see in st4, because as much as Brenner deserves to have his shit absolutely rocked, we've been increasingly shown that he is only human. Human's are not monsters, but humans can do monstrous things. That doesn't make them inhuman. And, as people like James and Em have spoken extensively about lately, Brenner is likely but one cog in the machine that is the Cycles in this show, and not necessarily the source of the cycles to begin with. He didn't pop outta the womb wanting to build a child torture dungeon, but something happened to bring him there and cloud his judgement.

And even if the death is something more intense and dramatic like that of Lazarus, it's not necessarily something to celebrate, yknow? Even if the threat is gone (which is a very good thing), it took many horrible, avoidable things to get there in the first place, and that's what's tragic.

B-B-B-Bonus Round: Just Some Extra Shit

vs "Henry" going missing in Nevada for 12 hours per tfs. Martha has been on several trips with the Doctor thus far, so there's the added bit of "the passage of time is messed up" seeing as, for her, it's been several days, but to everyone else it's only been 12 hours.

All of the above is so... yeah lol. Lazarus is repeatedly very weird to the two young women in this episode, Martha and her sister Tish, and he even rejects his elderly wife in one scene when she kisses him and he tells her to "look at [her]self." The sniffing thing even made me think of the demogorgon being given the trait of "smelling blood" so... I see you, Brennergorgon.

I could've probably fit this bit somewhere above, but I'm too lazy, so it's going here instead. Love a good boiler room setting and talking about sacrifices!

"Always the mothers" just like how Brenner say it was always the mothers who came to him convinced their children had abilities or issues, etc. (plus just a little context for Martha's mom's "dangerous" comment: this season has an overarching hidden plot about the Master, who I touched on in another one of my dw posts, wherein he basically holds political power over the city (hiding the fact that he's a Time Lord) and is trying to sabotage the Doctor).

[will80sbyers]

STRANGER THINGS 5 PRODUCTION MASTERPOST / part 006

September 15 / 2024

Picture of Vickie's actress chair lol

September 16 to the 18 / 2024

Old video of Mike and El talking on the roof of the radio station, the same scene with a little bit more at the end

Filming at the hospital, Robin and Lucas on set + the Wheeler's car is there too : 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9 / 10 / 11 / 12

Karen was filming at the hospital too

September 20 / 2024

BTS video of Mike, Lucas and Dustin on set showing props to two fans

on YouTube

more

Shawn posts BTS pics of El, Lucas, Dustin and Steve (?)

September 21 / 2024

Old/new Will BTS at the mansion

September 22 / 2024

Mike's hair being fluffed at the labs before filming lol

September 23 / 2024

Not confirmed but maybe Max was filming something in New Mexico for st

September 24 / 2024

Eleven was filming at the labs and Millie gets her coffee ☕

September 29 / 2024

Old/new pics of the jock bullies at school, Chance etc

October 4 / 2024

BTS pics from Shawn, Finn and Noah on set, Robin and Joyce together, the school field, Vecna's mind space and Demogorgons (?) + Lucas

Old/new pics of the hospital filming

New sets at a school, maybe Halloween themed+ the Mike and Will flashback (?) or idk something with Holly (?)

October 11 / 2024

I'm not sure what this is about, maybe we'll have new content on the 4 of November at 8:11 (?)

October 14 / 2024

Military at the radio station + BTS video from the st stylist

New set?

Casting is looking for a young version of Hopper's daughter Sarah

Linda Hamilton spotted at the radio station set

Interview at the editor of Stranger Things

October 15 / 2024

They are filming at the Stone Mountain park and locals heard someone call Mike

Filming at the radio station and the woods

October 16 / 2024

Will, Robin and Lucas are filming something at the radio station at night - Mike is there too

New school set - elementary school for Holly in '87 ( extra info I've got later is that Holly and Derek are classmates so I'm thinking they both go here )

Probably VICKIE'S double spotted at the Radio Station, dressed as a nurse because she was probably at the hospital before and they meet there with Robin

Extra pictures inside Holly's school

Linda Hamilton's character was at the radio station set with the military - more - and again

October 17 / 2024

Video of the military arriving at the Radio station set and storming the place

Joyce, Robin, Lucas, Mike and Will were all together at the radio station set

More

More

Confirmed: they are looking for someone to play Hopper's daughter when she was little, most likely for some flashbacks... or possibly Vecna taunting Hopper with her image/memory

New BTS of Joyce, Robin, Will, Mike, Lucas arriving at the radio station set + the Creel's house BTS

October 18 / 2024

Old video of Will and Holly preparing for the bikes scenes

New video of Caleb as Lucas

Picture of Will smiling on the bike ❤️

with Holly

Again, arriving at the radio station

More

New pics of the scene with the military arriving at the radio station, Linda + Vickie + my idea of what's happening

October 19 / 2024

Noah's mom posts a picture from inside the set

There's going to be a upside down version of the radio station set

October 20 / 2024

Noah said that he was filming as Will with Joyce and that Will is protective of her in season 5

Amybeth kinda confirmed Robin and Vickie kissing lol

There was a school bus at the radio station set

Robin has a scene where she crawls to the upside down + pictures of the Bradley's truck in the UD, being half destroyed by some monsters + Joyce arriving at the radio station set + Noah mentioning Lonnie at a con

Continue TO PART -> 007

For my personal speculation about stuff you can search St5 speculation ( warning ⚠️ there's lots of byler lmao)

Go back to 001 / 002 / 003 / 004 / 005

[theladyrebecca2]

It's human nature to gain or lose hope when you see Netflix socials promoting Byler or Midleven, but we've gotta pull back the curtain to see the full picture.

First, always remind yourself that the Stranger Things team and Netflix are completely separate entities. Netflix is the vehicle the ST team are driving their story on, but they're not the same people who actually create it. They get little to no say in what the ST writers write.

I say 'little' because the bones of each season will have been greenlit by select Netflix higher-ups (with NDA's signed). But if the Stranger Things team want Storyline A, and Netflix were to say no, what about Storyline B? Then the ST team are absolutely capable of standing their ground and not moving. Perhaps some compromises can be made, but the final say will be down to how stubborn the ST writers can be. This was made apparent by the Duffer Brothers’ open stance on the writing and acting strikes, which directly opposed Netflix. It mattered to them that in the future, writers will continue to have control over their work. That Netflix can't just weasel out of their contracts with shows and write their own endings with AI. Right now, Netflix provide funding, connections, and a platform to host stories on. The ST team provide their content, the original idea, the heart and soul. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.

When it comes to promoting stuff on social media, we have several teams working separately. This leads to exchanges like this from the Netflix Tudum event:

This is two completely different social media teams interacting with each other. Most important to remember though - right now, the Netflix social media team won't know anything about Season 5. The earliest they may be told anything important will be at the start of the Season 5 promotional campaigns, but even then, it's not a given. NDA's will be in effect at Netflix right up until the bitter end. The social media people will be working in tandem with the marketing team, all of them given set content or working under guidelines when told what they can promote/ talk about.

Secondly, they're just ordinary people doing their job. When it comes to liking comments or replying to them, it will all differ depending on which person happens to be logged into the Netflix account at that time.

For ST5, it looks like Dana and Chris are two Senior Social Media Managers at Netflix US:

But look at all the related connections, and you begin to realise just how many people make up these social media teams (and marketing, which is related). And remember, this is just Netflix US - not the ST team.

So just think about how each person has their own opinions, has their own views on the show. How many of these people might ship Byler? How many ship Midleven? I bet they have their own interpersonal work politics behind the scenes, hoping their idealised ending is the right one.

My point is, there's no point freaking out about this occuring underneath Netflix US's recent post about ST S5:

All this shows is that we have a Midleven shipper in the social media team. After Season 4, a lot of people got excited at this:

But again, all this indicates is that we also have a potential Byler shipper in the Netflix UK team. It's just as pointless getting happy and excited about pro-Byler stuff on there, as it is to get worried or upset about pro-Midleven stuff.