#spider anatomy

[fantasy-anatomy-analyst]

Since youve drawn your version of driders I want to ask for help in figuring out how pedipalps or mandibles would fit on a humanoid face. How would they attach to the skull and jaw structure?

I have an old post that shows just the outer appearance of how spider mouth parts might look on a drow's face so that's a start. but I did not go into any detail on the underlying structure, so let's tackle that!

spiders, like pretty much all arthropods, have an exoskeleton, while vertebrates have internal skeletons. but, vertebrates are capable of developing something akin to an exoskeleton! like osteoderms on lizards, or the scales of a pangolin, or the armored plates of an armadillo. so we can sorta handwave the combination of exoskeleton and internal skeleton with the arthropod/vertebrate hybridization of driders. I think the attachment of the spider parts would be more internally muscular, possibly with cartilage parts, and externally reinforced with keratin.

it should also be noted that spiders do not have mandibles. they have fangs to inject venom and digestive juices, and then they slurp the digested goop out of their prey. they also have pedipalps, which are like little hand-arms.

here is a more extreme look at how you might alter the skull of a drider to include more spider-like features:

(image description: sketches of a drider skull from the side and front, with extra holes for the smaller spider eyes, no lower jaw, and space for the large round spider fangs and flexible pedipalps. the nose no longer exists, since the fangs are in its place. below the skulls are sketches of a drider with this anatomy. end description)

have fun with your freaky spider-faced driders!

[karniss-bg3]

I would like to hear your thoughts about Larian giving Kar’niss female pedipalps?

Personally I feel like it was just another f you from Lolth

Alright so, this is a complicated and detail-heavy topic. For that reason I’ll be splitting this theory into two sections: Technical Aspects & Lore. There will be a TL;DR at the bottom.

Technical Aspects

Kar’niss is a complex model and I imagine the rigging on him was wild. To my understanding his walking animation was done by hand which makes sense. His torso could be motion captured but the arachnid portions needed to be moved in engine. The best time to witness the separation is if you play music for him as a bard. His torso will bob and sway the same as the rest of the NPCs but his legs stay perfectly stationary. I do get a kick out of the idea of the Larian devs trying to put a tiny motion capture suit on a spider but alas.

I bring this up because the pedipalps add an extra layer of complication that the devs didn’t really need. In fact the concept art for driders doesn’t include them at all which suggests they weren’t part of the original design. A lot changed from concept art to the final version it seems. He used to have extra arms, his legs were longer, and his facial features were more twisted. His skin was also darker but it was either changed because he is a Szarkai or because his skin tone blended too heavily with the color of the chitin.

This would align with a lot of the concept art from D&D. There are many examples of driders without pedipalps, both male and female.

All that said, when it comes to the technical aspects, I have a theory as to why the original and final designs were so vastly different: Time. Kar’niss is one of the more detailed models in the game and even the final version didn’t turn out perfect. If you look closely at where his torso attaches to the spider body you can see some model tearing when he turns at certain angels, as well as what I refer to as “tubing”. I’ve seen this in a few games and it’s where limbs or portions of a body thin out to an impossible degree and they look like a squeezed out tube of toothpaste. This could be due to improper skeleton models, broken seams or rigging but as I don’t work in the industry those are my best guesses.

When you have a strict budget and time limit sometimes a development team has to cut some fat. They didn’t have the time to add in the extra arms, super long limbs or highly detailed face model. Perhaps they looked at the final design and weren’t satisfied with the lack of monster features. Thus, the pedipalps were introduced. But since drider are canonically sexless they designed the palps in such a way that they were made for battle; hence the sharp barb present at the tip of each. They are located face level for most races which make them perfect eye gougers or maybe they use them to subdue prey. Palps are also used to “taste” in most spider species and he could likely use them to discern if prey is edible or not.

“Pedipalps contain sensitive chemical detectors and function as taste and smell organs, supplementing those on the legs”

As for why they are female in design the simplest answer I have is that it was an oversight. If they were already scrambling to finish the model then they were likely going for the path of least resistance. Male pedipalps would’ve required a bit more work and either they didn’t think that much about it or chose the easiest design to model. I know about the Kar’niss is trans theory and I’ll be touching on that in the next section.

Lore

Anyone who has followed me for a while knows I’ve discussed drider lore a lot here so I’ll try to be a bit more brief in this section. Drider are meant to be sexless as Lolth didn’t wish for them to reproduce and rise up against Her. If Larian’s design of the palps were with intent then I believe we’re looking at Jurassic Park situation here. Maybe Lolth’s manner of birth control was to make all spider bodies female regardless of the gender of the drow who is changed. It would also align with the Matriarchal society drow come from as well as Lolth choosing to make driders in “Her image”. So yes, a “fuck you” from Lolth would be accurate in this case. The issue I run into is that Kar’niss is the only drider model in-game and so I have nothing to compare him to. I don’t know if all driders in this universe look the same or if there would’ve been a difference between females and males. It leaves it all up to pure speculation, sad to say.

There is a theory that’s been around for a while now that Kar’niss is transgender. While I think it’s a perfectly fine theory I don’t necessarily agree with it. It’s not because I’d be against him being trans, it’s more that I can’t find enough evidence to support it. For starters if he is trans, is he a trans man or a trans woman? We’ve learned that Kar’niss is a female name according to drow naming conventions and of course his palps suggest a female body. The name can be explained as an act of defiance as it is stated that if a man takes on a womans name they are considered troublemakers. If he is a trans woman, why would he ever allow himself to be misgendered?

There are several NPCs that refer to him as “he” and Kar’niss never once barks at them. It’s not as if he’s shy and in fact he’s proven to have quite the temper. He no longer follows nor worships Lolth and he’s under the protection of the Absolute, a cult that allegedly loves and accepts him. Why hide himself as a trans woman under these conditions? Especially in a game that is very progressive in terms of character creation and pronoun usage.

If he is a trans man then the spider body becomes a moot point. Did he transition before the drider transformation or did Lolth change his sex but slap on the female spider body as a way to mock him? Is that why he was changed? I imagine in a drow society where being a woman is a big deal having one that wanted to become a male, a lesser, would be the talk of the Underdark. I’m sure it’s worse for men who want to be women as that could be seen as “rising above their station”. It’s hard to say as modern day gender identity isn’t really addressed in drow lore.

There is a trans woman in Baldur's Gate 3 that the player meets during Shadowheart’s storyline. It can be easy to miss as her past isn’t revealed unless Shadowheart consumes the noblestalk Tav picks up in the Underdark. This is an excerpt from Nocturne’s journal.

“I am Nocturne. I think as her. I see her when I look in the mirror. I can't remember the last time someone called me by the wrong name - Shadowheart has been swift to gently correct slips of the tongue, and even swifter in challenging those who'd use my forsworn name in malice. I'm lucky to have her as a friend. “

While it seems she had trouble in the beginning, those under Shar came to accept her in time as far as I can tell. With this we can at least say that Larian has no issues adding in trans characters but Kar’niss doesn’t receive this treatment. Another thing to note is that Nocturne is voiced by a trans woman, Abigail Thorn. Where as Kar’niss is voiced by, what I assume to be, a cisgender male. In my mind if Larian would take that much time and care for accuracy wouldn’t they do the same for Kar’niss?

With all of that said if people have the headcanon that Kar’niss is trans that is a-okay, I have no issues with that or any other character! It’s simply a theory I don’t personally subscribe to because the elements don’t line up well enough for me. But hey if they ever expand on his story and he is trans that’d be cool. I don’t know if there is a trans man elsewhere in-game so it’d be nice to see that representation there.

Phew, that was far longer than I anticipated but I hope I covered the topic well enough as it has been debated quite a bit in the fandom. Once again I want to express that I believe folks are allowed to write and draw these characters how they see fit. It’s fantasy fun folks, go wild and enjoy your faves as you desire.

TL;DR: I think the female pedipalps are a technical oversight and were only added in to give Kar’niss a more monstrous appearance or to round out his design. I don’t believe he is trans due to the lack of evidence to support the theory. If Lolth had any bearing on the spider body it was likely to prevent reproduction or in an effort to make driders in her image. Overall, the pedipalps are more up to interpretation than hard evidence.

[a-twistedheartslonging]

Eating ass would fix me.

Also biologically correct dicks will also fix me.

The little square is a spider’s dick.

No wonder Idia is so insecure, that thing looks like it hurts the first few times.

I like biologically correct dicks with certain monsters/beasty guys but not all. I prefer him with a glowy bad dragon dildo dick. Same with the feline beastmen having nubs instead of bards cuz that would tear up the cooch/ass.

[lildoodlenoodle]

So I’ve been thinking, why does Spider Noir have black webbing? To my knowledge, no spider produces black webs and neither do any other insects that I can find. So, theoretically, how is this happening?

I can think of a couple ways:

1. Blood. Internal bleeding can turn mucus, urine, and fecal matter dark and even black. If Peter’s internal spinnerets bled with use into his silk gland then it could potentially darken the webbing. Maybe not black necessarily, as it would be more of a dark red(due to silk being white) but it could also be that his blood is darker or black.(this could part of the spider mutation or if u think his world is in black and white) This can also be tied back to necrosis, which if the spider god is changing his insides,,, yikes.

2. Pollutants. Certain chemicals and pollutants(including smoking) can cause black mucus. 1930s wasn’t exactly known for environmentally conscious business practices and air and water quality. Dude could just be dirty lol. This would also include a fungal/yeast infection inside the actual spinneret.

3. Spider silk is really just proteins, proteins are mostly died black with amido black. Amido black has a methanol base. Peter’s spinnerets could produce or overproduce a similar compound. Methanol comes into the body from just regular diet mostly, but is excreted through the kidneys. Maybe Peter can’t break down methanol as successful so it’s also secreted through the spinnerets, or he has to eat so much(super metabolism) of certain foods(like vitamin k is a pretty good fuel for making webs) that he has more methanol in his system than the average human and needs another way to secrete that. Nitrogen Dioxide is also a possibility.

4. The silk is created similarly to hair. Peter has darker or even black hair sometimes. Hair is ‘dyed’ black by eumelanin. If there is an over production of eumelanin it could cause some dark skin patches. This can be caused by hormone production changes(spider god). You can also increase eumelanin production by eating foods rich in antioxidants, copper, and some vitamins, so Peter’s body could be producing an excess of any of those.

5. ✨Magic✨

Note: Why am I focusing on mucus? Because it’s possible spinnerets would need an internal lubricant in human bodies which most likely would be a type of mucus.

[artastic-friend]

Two different spiders and a black widow molt under the microscope!

TW: These spiders ARE dead sadly…

The false widow passed away from natural causes a few days ago, and sadly the black widow perished today…

May they both rest in peace in the big spiderweb in the sky💖

But on a more positive note, here are some cool closeup images through a microscope!

You can see their little hairs and eyes really well! Also their chelicerae and pedipalps! Super cool!

The first batch here is the False Widow:

Dorsal and Ventral sides:

Anterior view for a closer look at her eyes and pedipalps:

Posterior ventral view for closer look at her spinnerets:

---

Next we have the juvenile female Black widow:

her color pattern is very fascinating with the way it is not all one solid color, but the individual sections of pigment are visible, as well as the banding on her leg joints:

Dorsal anterior view for a closer look at her eyes:

Ventral side, pedipalps and spinnerets:

Itty bitty gripper on her back leg 🥺:

BUT THA'S NOT ALL!

I also have some pictures of Petunia’s molt!!! (petunia is a sub-adult Black Widow female I have! She is alive and well, here is her exoskeleton from her previous molt!):

This image is cool because you can see her old chelicerae! Ventral anterior view:

Dorsal anterior View:

Shriveled thin exoskeleton of her abdomen and her upper cephalothorax. Dorsal posterior view at a bit of a 45 degree angle: you can sorta see her little eye holes and stuff!

Part of one of her back legs, her very fine sensory hairs:

[er-cryptid]

Patreon

[imabiscuitinthousandworlds]

wait, if spiders don't have tear ducts, are their eyes wet? do their eyes need to be wet? asking for Reasons

[justhereforsomethingnice]

Was at a PhD defense today and found out that male spiders have a muscle in their back to escape after mating with a female. Do with this what you will.

Found an article on it too. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/spiders-catapult-to-avoid-getting-eaten-after-mating#:~:text=During%20mating%2C%20these%20legs%20are,thrusting%20them%20off%20the%20female.

Enjoy.

[soupyhead]

miguel in the secret post-credits scene

[miaushii]

[beastlyidiocy]

[shaunakghosh]

Swinging through New York City. I did that

[inkiedraws]

A dubious little creachuree getting up to mischief. 🤨

[illaurastrates]

I hate the AM, I hate the PM 🤘

[lildoodlenoodle]

I’m going to sound really stupid and should have instead searched it up, but I have a feeling that you’re a Wikipedia all on your own, but like… What do you mean by non-organic webs? I thought all the spider people were shooting from their bodies? And also, what are spinnerets?

(To clarify, not a comic fan or Marvel or whatever… I just love good movies with spectacular animation, characters, music, etc).

Keep up the great work, by the way. Love reading your analyses.

I’m guessing Spidernoir is one of your favorites?

OH OK LETS GO! So by non-organic webbing I mean manufactured. So a lot of spider people don’t actually have the ability to shoot webs! They use web shooters and web cartridges. Webshooters are typically some form of bracelet with a pressure plate near the palm creating the signature Spider-Man hand pose when shooting out the webs! Web cartridges contain web fluid that when oxidized turn into condensed spider webs/silk. For movie examples Andrew Garfield Spider-Man(I like this one’s montage) and Tom Holland Spider-Man both use webshooters while Tobey McGuire Spider-Man has organic webbing. In ITSV we also see Miles putting on the webshooters!

Organic webbing means it actually comes from inside the spider person’s body rather than them manufacturing it. It’s part of the mutation/super powers, like how wall crawling is! The organic webbing, typically, comes from spinnerets. Spinnerets is the term used to describe the group of organs on a spider(or other insects) that silk(or spider webs) is produced. They are typically seen on the ‘butt’ of spiders. In this context, most spider people that produce organic webbing have spinnerets in their wrist, but some can produce webs from their finger tips and/or feet(we mostly see this in spider women for some reason). Spider Noir is unique because not only does he have organic webbing but it is also black webbing!

But yes you’re right, spider noir is one of my favorites! (omg how’d you know? 🤭🙈)His story, and marvel noir in general, has a lot of material and potential that they don’t use and I love filling in those gaps! Thank you for the ask!

[strijkdesign]

I absolutely loved Across the spider verse For anyone who loves animation it's a definete must watch! The use of color for their story telling is amazing. Had to change my anatomy studies in to some practice sketches of my fav ❤️ character ❤️