#sorry to my non spn fan followers | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

charcubed · 2 years ago

Note

I keep seeing posts that are like "interpretations of bi!Dean and gay!Dean are equally valid!" and I used to be like, sure, straight!Dean is definitely wrong but beyond that, see him how you want, who cares.

But now (esp after the Last Call script) I just don't understand the gay!Dean truthers? I follow quite a few on sm, and when I initially followed them I was like "they accept Dean is queer, that's good enough for me." But now they're really starting to get to me and it's not really worth arguing about to them, but I wanted to rant to you about it, cuz you get it.

The script literally included "gorgeous women" in the bar. Dean has canonically been sexually AND romantically attracted to women. He's based off THEE bisexual Neal Cassady.

Like I'm not really trying to defend m/w relationships (lol) but why do even queer ppl insist on erasing his identity when it's so clear? Why do they have to take that away?

Gay!Dean in AUs is one thing, but in the actual, textual canon of the show, Dean is bi. And no, gay!Dean and bi!Dean are NOT equally valid interpretations. And I don't think I'm an asshole for saying that 🤷🏼‍♀️

Sorry it took a few days to get to this. Work and life have kept me busy and tired!

Unironically and non-sarcastically, Anon, I'm glad you've seen the light and seem to understand this topic more now. You are, of course, entirely correct. And you're not an asshole for saying it either.

I'm going to take this opportunity to answer your (potentially rhetorical) questions, and also bounce off of you and lay some stuff out about this topic in general at length for the first time–despite the fact that it may turn me into public enemy #1 again. I am already hated for non-combatively voicing these facts on Twitter (this thread tends to be considered one of the "ground zeroes" of the nonexistent "debate" lol), but I have avoided being dog-piled on Tumblr so far, so... fingers crossed I can miraculously keep it that way!

My hope is that anyone who is predisposed to taking this topic very personally just moves on instead of attacking me (or subposting me?) for any of what I'm about to say. I'm also not forcing anyone to read this, before anyone's like "that's way too many words" or "it's not that serious lol."

I do think this topic is important. I've made the decision to publicly spell out why. And if anyone doesn't want to read it, that's their prerogative.

To your questions, Anon:

I think a lot of this comes down to a fandom-wide problem (all fandoms recently, not just SPN) of not understanding the difference between headcanon and canon, the dimensions as to why that distinction does have its uses and its necessity, and the value in both. I'll get into this later.

But in this fandom specifically, based on observation and lengthy conversations I've had with a dozen long-time fans who are my friends... I personally think it's maybe a new dimension of viewpoint that's branched out from a holdover of "all interpretations are valid" being the party line people have clung to a very long time. (That’s also true in other fandoms, but I think it’s especially true here.) It's a form of solace people don't want to deviate from. No one wants to be seen as or feel like the ~jerk~ who's ~invalidating another person's view of canon~ in response to someone else's knee-jerk reaction of hurt. This is a fandom with early-2000s cultural baggage and context, where people dealt with feeling like the "crazy fangirls" who shipped Destiel and dared to call out queer subtext. Misha's "You're not crazy" tweet exists for a reason. I do feel like a lot of well-meaning people–aside from misunderstanding or being ignorant to the analytical roots of this topic and why they absolutely matter–just know what it feels like to have their thoughts on queer content in a show feel "invalidated," and they don't want to be perceived as doing that to other people. And/or: they’ve felt invalidated before (in this fandom or others!), and so they’re hypersensitive to anything they perceive as doing that to them again, especially if they tied personal identity into the projections they’re making onto the media they enjoy.

I understand that people don’t want to seem ~mean~ or make waves. I also don't want to seem mean or be mean, which is why I try to be as clear as possible whenever I talk about this and I never go after people directly (or interact/reference any of the many subtweets from people who openly talk shit about me. haha). But the facts shouldn't be seen as "mean"; they are simply facts. And yes, they absolutely matter.

Because the thing is... none of the above has any bearing on the nuances of the topic at hand, the indisputable fact that Dean is bisexual in canon and that claiming otherwise is erasure, and the truth that none of this should be seen as a threat to people's headcanons.

These are all things that people should understand, and I will not apologize for knowing that and saying it. Misunderstanding this–making the false claim that “all interpretations of Dean’s sexually are equally valid as long as you see him as queer”–is an act of bisexual erasure in this context, and it often (unintentionally!) plays into biphobic talking points. And yeah, in my opinion, that’s something people should care about because it’s worthy of both personal and fandom examination. It is, in fact, why “representation” matters at all.

Let’s not kid ourselves: the bulk of this fandom-wide discourse is about Bi Dean vs Gay Dean. So, y’know, that’s the bulk of how I’m going to address it to just get it all out there.

Right out the gate, let me clarify this: I am not saying–now or ever–that those who are self-proclaimed “Gay Dean truthers” or argue that “Dean being gay in canon is a valid interpretation” are deliberately coming from a place of malice and the intent to contribute to bisexual erasure. By all means, I’m sure most aren’t! Nonetheless, intent does not equal impact. I’ve even seen people say “I’m a Gay Dean truther and I’m bisexual, so how could I possibly be contributing to bi erasure by arguing for Gay Dean?” But in this situation–as in any other–no one is immune from unwittingly perpetuating harm, even including bi people. And it’s important to understand why that is.

“Interpretations” are not opinions, not all are equal, and they do require some level of skill. This is not a personal attack, or a moral judgement on anyone, or somehow a threat to people’s enjoyment of a favorite character. It is just fact.

Gay Dean is not a valid possibility in canon. There is no lens that justifies an argument of it with canonical basis. I have to break down why, in order to sufficiently express why claiming otherwise is a harmful position to take, so bear with me.

(No, this is not an invitation for a Gay Dean truther to treat this like a “debate” with me or waste time writing out a counterargument. Please just exit the tab if you’re somehow here battling that urge.)

For someone to say that Dean is gay in canon, here is an incomplete list of what has to be erased, ignored, or explained away:

• His sexual attraction to, romantic love for, and relationship with Cassie.

• His sexual attraction to, romantic love for, and relationship with Lisa (whether or not one thinks she was ever the ~ultimate love of his life~, attraction and love were present.)

• His stash of and enjoyment of porn that includes women, which is referenced many times.

• The moments where he was seduced by a female-presenting monster.

• Each and every time he made a reference to or joke about his attraction to women.

• Any fling he ever had with a woman on screen, and the enjoyment he had in the process.

The man is canonically sexually and romantically attracted to women, and he has acted upon that and even enjoys that about himself in wildly diverse contexts. It is a blatant part of the text of the show. (The fact that we are at the point where this is somehow a main point of contention rather than his attraction to men does make me feel a tiny bit insane, to be honest.)

Now, in my experience (which I don’t claim is comprehensive!), the people who argue for Gay Dean tend to explain ALL of this away under some form of universal umbrella of Dean being “performative,” a variation on compulsive heterosexuality they ascribe to him. The claim or explanation tends to be that Dean was performing a mostly-faked attraction to women based on his father’s expectations and outward pressures he received in the culture of his life. Moments are often cherry-picked out of context to support this “reading.”

Who is Dean supposedly performing FOR, even in the moments where he acts on his attraction to women when he is alone? How does this explain his significant relationships with women like Cassie and/or the legitimate visible enjoyments he received from those interactions, as well as his flings with women throughout the show? How does this explain things like the Last Call script, where Dean is very clearly written as attracted to “gorgeous women,” a factoid that is not only very clear on screen but also (of course) written in literal black and white?

(There are no sufficient answers to these rhetorical questions. Once again: please do not waste time trying to give me any.)

And what evidence are Gay Dean people using for comphet or performative Dean? The “evidence” is often a misread of canon, pointing towards the consistent theme and false goal presented in the text of the show of characters’ efforts to strive for an “apple pie life,” aka a heteronormative ideal family. Gay Dean people misrepresent what this theme and through-line in the show is actually about, which is the totality of learning to accept your life rather than striving for something ill-fitting, that what you need and want need not be mutually exclusive (family life including fulfilling romance + hunting life can coexist), family is what you make of it and how you define it, and there are no true limitations on what all of this “should” be. While these themes are inherently queer, they are not about narrow performances of masculinity, femininity, or sexual identity, but about making space for ALL forms of all of the above��AND about identifying what it is that one wants and thinks they can’t have.

Namely, for Dean, that’s a version of settling down in a life that fulfills him in every direction, with an open and honest mutual relationship with the person he is in love with. This latter point would be true whether Cas was a man or a woman (though the fact that he is a man of course adds further dimension of interest to the story). Dean doesn’t think he can have a romantic relationship / family that lasts, and by later seasons that yearning is a key part of his character. The times it didn’t work out for him weren’t because those other people were women, but rather because the “lesson” he internalized from traumatic instances of loss is that hunters don’t get to do ~the love thing~ or get the settled down life. This is stated in the text of the show multiple times, and that’s also why Dean seeing examples of hunters who made any kind of balanced life work (especially masculine queer hunters like Jesse and Cesar) is pointed and purposeful. To say it’s about comphet instead (with no sufficient canon evidence that supports that) disregards a key point that’s central to Supernatural’s story, and in my opinion it disregards it to its detriment.

For Dean’s journey in particular, it is about freedom from limitations of structure, and knowing that he contains multitudes. The things he got from John–loving classic rock and loving his car, for example–are no less core joyful parts of Dean simply because they originated from his father. Dean can love classic rock and still occasionally love a Taylor Swift song, for example. He can love cowboy movies and manly movies, and also enjoy chick-flicks. It’s the idea of learning that there are no limitations, not that masculine interests are not inherently something he loves for himself or that aren’t important parts of his identity. It’s an expansion to openly include more, not a switch or a narrowing. The same applies to his sexual attraction and his queer identity. He can be attracted to cowboys and bikers, and also be attracted to gorgeous women. Him being attracted to / loving women does not mean he cannot and does not feel attraction and love for men; likewise, him being in love with a man does not mean he wasn’t and isn’t attracted to women.

(“Last Call,” as an episode, exists in part to drive the totality of these points home, and emphasize that Dean’s attraction to men is something he’s known about himself for most of his life and acted on previously. So is most of the queercoding and queer subtext applied to Dean–which is specifically coding him as bisexual. His attraction to men is sometimes established or made clear because it echoes his attraction to women, etc. etc. Dean’s canonical attraction to men is a whole other post.)

So here we come to why saying otherwise and trying to shoehorn a comphet narrative onto Dean in canon is harmful:

Aside from the fact that to claim Dean’s joyful attraction to women is performative is to cut out chunks of the story and is thus not supported by canon, and it relies on making assumptions about and projecting onto the text… unintentionally or not, the implication is that bisexuality is not queer enough, or that being gay is somehow “queerer” and thus more compelling and a preferred concept, and that attraction to different genders is a heterosexual / straight trait requiring removal. No one is queering a text in a more revolutionary way or unlocking a ~secret good Supernatural~ by making a bisexual man into a gay man. That’s simply not how this works.

“Preferring” an argument for Gay Dean in canon requires explaining away or misreading all of those moments Dean has with women, essentially replacing them with trauma or suffering or discomfort that–in my observations–also sometimes rely on stereotypes of gay men. It also involves potentially preferring to twist them into behaviors Dean must have universally put himself through not out of genuine joyful desire but at minimum because he felt like he “should” or at maximum in an attempt to “fix” his “gayness,” even when no one was watching. And it points to the pressures Dean experienced about living a life that fit him fully–pressures that exist not just in his world, but also in our patriarchal world and society–and it implies that queer people can’t authentically experience attraction or love to someone of a different gender, because maybe they’re actually just “performing” the heteronormative ideal. As in: a “visually queer” relationship is the end goal, right? For Dean, that’s an m/m relationship... so surely m/f matters less, or maybe it can’t be a genuine and significant part of a queer person’s life.

Once again: I do not think any of this is intentional on the part of Gay Dean truthers, nor do I think it’s done with malice. Nonetheless, these harmful biphobic viewpoints permeate these conversations and misconceptions when people say these arguments are valid.

There is no canonical basis for explaining away all of Dean’s moments with women, and the story does not provide or point to any kind of cohesive narrative reason to do so. YES, people absolutely experience comphet in real life, and those experiences are valid and exist. YES, real gay men can and do sleep with or have nuanced romantic relationships with women before realizing they’re gay later in life. No, that does not mean that’s how analysis of a fictional character in a fictional story always works, especially in regards to a story built over time like Supernatural’s unique approach and the way it was molded to place queerness and specifically bisexuality at the core of Dean’s story.

Ascribing comphet to Dean in canon–or making any other insufficient justification for explaining away his attraction to women–is personal projection. And yes, it is bisexual erasure.

This is not a position fueled by personal hurt for me, as I would say the same here whether or not I was personally bisexual. It is an acknowledgement that these conversations don’t exist in a vacuum, and that’s something everyone should care to understand. I know what comphet storylines look like in fiction, and I know they are worth defining as such, and in other fandoms I even defend that very loudly. This is not the case here, and to say it is requires mental acrobatics that are objectively unsupported by canon... and invariably insisting otherwise perpetuates one of these harmful biphobic viewpoints whether or not one realizes it.

To say Gay Dean is a legitimate read of canon–which it is not–supports people who are erasing his varied sexual and romantic attraction to a different gender simply because they’ve decided they want to ignore that. “I like the idea of Dean being gay” does not mean that he is gay in canon, and writing meta to that end is a problem. It’s not an invalidation of someone on a personal level or some weird variation of homophobia to say that, and I do think people should maybe examine why they seemingly like the idea of him being gay more than him being bi, or why they staunchly defend it (or any other “different queer reading”) as a possibility.

I understand there may be the urge to be like “is it that serious” or “this is just a CW show,” but to that I would say… then why are we all here?

Clearly, most people do still care about queer representation on some level and understand that queer subtext is present and acknowledge that Dean isn’t straight... hence the origin of this new prevalent concept of “as long as you say Dean’s queer then it’s fine.”

But in any piece of media, the text is the text is the text. The text can also be compelling, and fascinating, and contain value whether or not it’s an exact reflection of you personally as a fan and as a person. Sometimes there is arguably even greater value in being able to find reasons to relate to the humanity of a character or in a story even though elements differ from who you are personally. It is an exercise in empathy, and it is a pillar of why humans tells stories to each other to expand our viewpoints, and it sometimes results in examining the sources of that empathy. It’s why “representation matters”: not just so we can see ourselves, but so we can see others, and find reason to empathize despite differences. There’s unquantifiable power in that, and it’s also why the diversity of queer experiences and identities should be championed and acknowledged both in fiction and in reality, not turned into a monolith. Our solidarity amongst our individual queer differences and identities is our truest version of strength and authenticity. We are not all exactly the same, and that’s a good thing. When care is taken to specifically convey that in fiction, it is worth not only acknowledgement but also defense.

So: do we or do we not care about why representation is important, and why these sorts of conversations should exist at all? About censorship of queer storylines, and diversity in the queer community, and solidarity in differences? About bisexual men, a vastly underrepresented group in fiction, and the specific censorship that affected Dean’s bi story accordingly? And about how these viewpoints people can place onto fiction through fandom-wide conversation–like implying Dean is ~queerer~ if you say he’s gay, or that you’re somehow sticking it to the CW and “straight culture” if you suggest he’s gay–can influence biphobia that translates into ways people see bi people in real life?

In other situations even in this fandom, people understand the value of diverse queer experiences. No one would dare to say that “you can argue Charlie is bisexual in canon because as long as you say she’s queer it’s fine.” Charlie is a lesbian. It’s very, very clear, and she shows and states that she is only attracted to women. Dean’s attraction to women in canon is equally clear, and is part of his bisexuality. Why is erasing that defendable?

Look: it is people’s God-given right to write whatever fic they want about “what if” variations of Dean’s sexuality through a different lens. It is not their God-given right to make things up about canon and call it analysis.

It is a universal truth that fandom is always going to take canon and mold it into other versions that they love, for their own personal reasons and in ways that have value to them. That’s why transformative works like fic exist, and it’s why fandom is awesome, and I’m glad people use aspects of their favorite stories to tell other inspired stories that are of personal significance to them. But the word transformative is used for a reason: it’s an alteration of canon. It’s not a bad thing or a personal attack on people to say that.

There is a difference between understanding canon and writing actual meta / analysis of the show, and writing AUs for ones own enjoyment and fulfillment. (This is true on AO3 or on Tumblr/Twitter. I often see posts that are positioned as “meta,” but again, are just cherry-picked weirdness.) These differences are important, as is understanding how headcanons and fic affect surrounding conversations and fandom perceptions. And this fandom seems to have a very big problem with understanding the difference between these things, while taking it extremely personally in a negative way when people try to explain why the difference matters.

Confusing analysis and transformative fandom does a disservice to both, and denying the value in the former is not only a form of anti-intellectualism but also removes some of the beauty in the latter. If we can’t distinguish and differentiate between canon and headcanon, we can’t discuss the value in understanding the canon, nor adequately discuss the artistic value and power in creating derivative variations from it in personal ways. Both are different, both are equal, both are vital, and insisting the distinction is needless hampers conversation across every space. And nowhere is that more true than when one is discussing queer representation and queer censorship, like in the case of Supernatural. Again, why are we here? Why do we care? You cannot argue for and discuss the problems of censorship sufficiently if you don’t understand what was censored–and in Dean’s case, that was his love for Cas and his bisexuality.

I leave you with this (probably unneeded) analogy:

Imagine Dean’s a zebra.

(Sorry, EDS community; not that kind of zebra.)

People are trying to say “Dean is a black and white hoofed mammal <3″ and well, that’s accurate, but that doesn’t mean him being a zebra isn’t its own unique thing. A whole bunch of people are looking at him though and saying “well I prefer to say that Dean’s a black and white horse,” because they like that viewpoint better. Close enough, right? A black and white horse is basically a zebra, right? And then there’s the people who are like “I think Dean’s a cow!” and it’s like, okay, no idea where you came from, but whatever.

The point is that those are all entirely different fucking things. They’re different animals. Someone wanting Dean to be a black and white horse doesn’t make him less of a zebra. Pretending otherwise is absolute nonsense.

This debate/discussion/discourse is equally nonsensical. That is the logic (or illogic) that applies here.

Just because Dean is “queer” doesn’t mean any queer categorization underneath that umbrella suddenly equally applies.

Dean is bisexual. And he is “queer” because he’s bisexual.

Those are the facts.

And for the love of God, please... I really don’t think I’m an asshole for saying it.

So, to whoever made it this far: please do me the courtesy of not hating me for it or trying to bait me into a fight.

I’m tired. Thanks.

----

EDIT: Couple of good additions!

• @doctorprofessorsong added some good details about how some of these harmful biphobic concepts translate to real life, and real things that bi people struggle with.

• A lesbian anonymously sent in her perspective as someone who enjoys gay Dean headcanons/fic and agrees with this post, and agrees that the fact that Dean is bi in canon is important.

#dean winchester #supernatural #dean is bi #bisexual dean winchester #HAHA I TOLD MYSELF I WASN'T GOING TO PUT THIS IN THE OFFICIAL TAGS BUT THEN I SPENT HOURS WRITING IT SO FUCK IT #[slaps target on my back and cries] haha here we go #I'm not linking it on twitter though. I don't have that level of masochism in me. maybe this will fly under the radar on here a bit?#spn meta #I take a marijuana level of high road on twitter constantly but fun fact I'm not immune to knowing people hate me for daring to say this #doesn't change the facts though! and unfortunately I do actually give a fuck! even if few others do #maybe this is so long no one will read it #char writes things #also I did absolutely plagiarize myself in parts of this. what about it. ok I'm done goodbye.... screams #PS people CAN reblog this btw. I am being a little baby wincing at potential backlash preemptively but like #I wouldn't have posted it and left reblogs on if I didn't know and accept the risks <3 I will speak the truth idc idc someone's gotta do it #EDIT: I stopped being a coward and posted it on twitter :) because fuck it! I stand by my words etc etc it's all fine #me vs adding to the tags as if anyone's reading them lmfao

179 notes · View notes

naruhearts · 4 years ago

Text

I’m done keeping my composure.

Sorry, this will be a LOADED post! (And I’ll be repeating the points others have made)

for real, to everyone being nasty and telling heartbroken fans that “Dean was always supposed to die get a grip you’re just butthurt etcetera etcetera—” F you royally.

How dare you police the brutal feelings that’s been embroiling us since the Finale That Must Not Be Named aired.

The show you think you all watched, the show you all believe was the same SPN from Season 1-4, changed at some point. Kripke wrote his original vision, put it to screen, saw it through in S5 as he intended, and closed the door on that era.

In 2008, Supernatural was adopted and inherited. As you know, there was a supreme paradigm shift post-Kripke era. The show FLOURISHED (we won’t talk about Gamble thanks). It evolved, transformed, grew beyond trauma-induced self-worthlessness and toxic masculinity and endless death and hegemonic social ideals and conservatism and repressive anti-revolutionary ideas. Castiel, the iconic favourite and beloved staple of the series portrayed by Misha Collins, was introduced in Season 4 as the core lead character, and he ushered in a brand new era of Christian mythos that SPN took advantage of. Longevity SKYROCKETED. Audiences were INTERESTED. SPN amassed an incredibly groundbreaking fanbase infused by non-nuclear principles. A massive subversive wave began, fighting the Status Quo of the times since 2008. It’s precisely why such an abysmal ending to a show of extensive Freud-Jungian metanarratively meta META complex stature and social POWER will render us totally and unbearably broken for years to come.

Point is, DEAN WINCHESTER NO LONGER WANTED TO DIE. HE WANTED TO LIVE. HE WANTED TO SIT ON THE BEACH, PLUNGE HIS TOES IN THE SAND, AND SIP UMBRELLA DRINKS WITH HIS BROTHER AND HIS BEST FRIEND. He said this in Season 13. And then, a season later, he told the ghost of his long-deceased father — the source of his deep-running trauma and the figure of self-reductive authoritarianism permeating his arc since Season 1 — after being questioned why he didn’t pursue the Nuclear Fam, that he already has his own: his brother Sam, his adopted child Jack, and Cas.

Dean’s best friend Cas. Oh god, Cas, who made his inevitably permanent mark on Dean’s soul beyond allyship. Castiel, renamed to Cas, God’s -iel removed by Dean. Dean, the human spark that lit the fire of pre-existing autonomy in the inherently rebellious angel who was, this entire time, the catalyst for free will in God The Writer’s puppet show. Their friendship set on goddamn fire. I can also write paragraph upon paragraph about my love for Cas while devastated tears stream down my face, but I digress—

Cas’ romantic love for Dean pushed our main Heart of SPN to love himself. Love is free will. Free will is also love. Of note, Cas’ love confession in 15x18 was supposed to offset something so vastly important and fundamental...to maybe (read: most likely) pull the trigger on SELF-TRUTHS in conjunction with free will. And The Great Anticipated Follow-Up to the episode penned by the passionate Berens should have included (read: seemed like it was going to be) Dean, closeted trauma survivor in love with his best friend, being given the opportunity to do it right: to SPEAK HIS TRUTH, and then that very singular opportunity was STOLEN so grossly. After poring over it for days, I refuse to believe we made their years-long story up out of thin air, spun it out of fantastical-delusional dream cotton candy, because we DIDN’T. IT WAS REAL.

As I said in another post: “I’ve just been feeling physically ill for the past >40 something hours with the terrible knowledge that 19/20 undid years of vital progression towards healthy interdependence, autonomy, and a positive endgame, where Sam, Dean and Cas close the ring of found family in final empowering self-fulfillment...where Dean, no longer repressed and set free, is able to use his words and speak his truth as a queercoded trauma survivor, henceforth confirming and self-affirming his own bisexuality since S1 by reciprocating — by telling Cas that he always loved him, too, loved him endlessly, which would have altogether divested Supernatural of its cult status and catapulted it into global worldwide significance as the longest running sci-fi genre show in American broadcasting history that actually dared to defy and, by proxy, empower LGBTQ2IA+ everywhere who found profound personal meaning in Destiel through VALIDATION,” — found themselves mirrored in Dean and Cas’ respective character journeys individually and as each other’s queer love interests.

THIS IS WHY DEAN WASN’T MEANT TO DIE.

THEY WERE SO ESSENTIAL, NOT JUST TO THE OVERARCHING STORY AND HEALTHY INTERPERSONAL THEMATICS OF MODERN SPN, BUT ALSO TO THE SOULS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE WORLD WHO FOLLOWED THEIR JOURNEYS, HOPED FOR THEM, ASPIRED TO BE LIKE THEM, TREASURED THEM, WEEPED FOR THEM, AND FOUGHT FOR THEM, LIKE YOU AND ME.

Heck, how could anyone think Sam Winchester had a well-deserved characteristic ending? He didn’t. Dean’s brother was shafted so badly. He stopped hunting when seasons ago, he had canonically accepted that he no longer wanted an apple pie life. He simply...turned the lights off in a resoundingly empty bunker and left — abandoning his dead brother’s room — never to return (he did return later to get the Impala, family photos etc, I mean this symbolically)...as if — dare I say it — Supernatural itself eerily told us, in the negative-spaced pitch blackness, that the organic show and the wonderfully complex, matured characters we’ve grown to love weren’t going to survive or be revisited...that it was all going to perish, and that they no longer gave a single shit about their own show, which, to me, is the worst cardinal sin, because how dare they throw Team Free Will, an immovable and indomitable and passionate found family they built from the ground up, a found family CHOCK FULL TO THE BRIM OF LOVE AND LIFE RAGING AGAINST THE AUTHORITARIAN MACHINE IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE FREE WILL, under the bus no matter who is to blame. Growth was stomped on.

Then Sam married a faceless wife who wasn’t his textually established (and deaf) love interest Eileen, named his son Dean Jr., and grew old miserably, still mourning the passing of his older brother, shaken and sombre. Back to square one. IT WAS ALL ANTITHETICAL, even OUTSIDE a shipping context, and I ripped my hair out at this point in sheer disbelief.

This 15x20 ending would have fit somewhere between S4-7. Now? IT DOESN’T FIT. IT’S A JAGGED PUZZLE PIECE THAT DOESN’T BELONG ANYWHERE. IT’S THE FOREBODING UNKNOWN STRANGER IN ITS OWN LAND, BOTH LITERALLY AND FIGURATIVELY. This kind of ending was basically an illogical, unsound cluster of metastasized cells that, to me, ruined the viability of previous seasons to sustain bold praise and respect and dignity and rewatches and classic nostalgia in such insidious ways.

Dean Humanity Winchester and Cas, after everything they’ve been through, were silenced and lost in death, ripped apart from each other, unable to love each other the way they deserved, because of disappointing, vile incompetency and homophobia. The greatest love story ever told, again obliterated in less than 60 hollow minutes.

You know what this tells your audience, CW SPN? Death without self-growth is the way to go, and no one is allowed to forge their own path to freedom.

HOW INSULTINGLY HARMFUL IS THAT?

I don’t think I’ll ever stop grieving.

We all deserve answers.

#fuck #my stuff #spn s15 #15x20 #sorry this was so long winded but i’m so #I think I finally wrote out all my frustration in this???#i’m still broken but I do hope it gets better #ily all #my meta #fuck cw #fuck spn #deancas #destiel #excuse me for any sloppy grammar and weirdness and shit #I’m still emotionally wilding lol #the greatest love story ever told #narrative #character development #narrative cyclism #supernatural #destiel deserved better #jensen and misha deserved better #at the same time this all seems cathartic anyway :P #I sorta snapped because wtf WE AREN’T WATCHING THE SAME SHOW IF YOU BELIEVE DEATH IS THE ANSWER 😭#I respect your opinion only if you’re respectful towards ours #but I’ve literally seen so many nasties out there #I’d rather have queue #long post for ts #I’M TEARING UP AGAIN #I’m ill

2K notes · View notes

oviids · 4 years ago

Note

pls share some of your spn fic recs 🥺🥺

ok, a few things first:

followers and mutuals who do not have supernatural brainworms, kindly avert your eyes

i don’t normally rec or even read much fanfic any more but this is a CRISIS ok (cont.)

there is so. much. content for deancas out there and i have incredibly high standards, several ancient ao3 bookmarks, can speedread, and want to spare you guys the experience of wading through it all.

i also have a section for spn femslash since I was pretty into that back in the day (sadly a lot less fan content for this :/)

I don’t really like au’s or pure smut (I honestly usually just skim or skip those scenes) so if you’re mainly looking for that kind of thing this probably won’t be very helpful to you. jsyk.

i’m not great at describing stuff but i’ll do my best, i’ll also try and add tw’s when neccesary.

i wil try and keep updating this with any other decent fics i find, feel free to rec stuff too since i’m like 7 years behind.(edit 1/25/21) this is getting looooong so i’m going to start making another list on my spn blog rather than update this one

(edit 1/3/21) since this has gotten pretty long i’ve added rating/approximate word counts and marked my particular favorites with an asterisk.

Dean/Cas fic:

So Says The Sword*** - explicit/85k. FUCK its good...au/time travel where dean is not pulled out of hell by cas and says yes to becoming the michael sword. honestly could serve as an alternative to actually watching the show, if you want to get into dean/cas without actually doing that to yourself.

Fata morgana.* - teen/6k, pst s9 finale. very bela centric and i love it, she finds cas looking for dean in hell.

Redemption Road -misc/600+k. an incredibly long fic from a collaborative writing group back in the day. canon divergent from the end of s6 on, has a cool take on godstiel and the leviathans, as well as the lovecratian mythos connection. ngl when i reread it i only made it about 28% in but imo the casual reader can actually stop around there, the rest concerns a lovecraftian apocalypse that is still good (i think i don’t remember it very well) but not required to enjoy the first half. if you prefer i have an ebook version i can send you on gdrive.

Someone Who's Feeling For Me* - mature/45k, s12. they run into lisa braeden and dean thinks cas is into her while cas thinks dean still likes her. treats lisa way better than the show ever did and the miscommunication is pretty funny rather than annoying.

a turn of the earth - mature/95k. time travel fic where cas from s10 keeps showing up in deans life from a few years before s1 to right before the hellhounds take his soul. slow burn, good character study, and at one point cas punches the dad in the face and it rules.

On the Wings of War - teen/85k, canon divergent s5. dean accidentally becomes the Horseman of War. plays fun, fast and loose with biblical lore, michael has some rights.

Named - mature/95k, alternate s5. EXTREMELY blasphemous in a fun sexy way. manages to predict metatron almost to a T. there’s one major character death and its literally jesus christ, everyone is very sad about it and it sets the rest of the story rolling. an alternate interpretation of cas’ mission to raise dean from hell which had me on the floor. ngl its kind of misogynistic at points, but its from 2010 and tracks with late oughts-2010 spn (sorry anna the author did you dirty here:/).

The Girlfriend Experience - explicit/15k. uhhh i don’t normally rec or even read smutty stuff unless someone i know is specifically asking for it but this has stuff like sam trying to be a good ally and dean thinking holding hands with cas is ‘kinda gay :/’ minutes after having gay sex with him.

i crippled your heart a hundred times - explicit/19k, s8. cas confesses his feelings and dean spends a long time getting his head out of his ass about it. truly hits different after the actual confession, despite being written six years early it feels like its actually what could have gone down more or less if the writers weren’t talentless demons who hate us.

My Roots Take Flight** - mature/125k. reverse au where cas is a hunter and dean’s an angel...OR IS IT???? an alternate retelling of s4. tw for briefly being set in a psychiatric hospital/the hospital being mentioned somewhat frequently throughout the fic, plus more references to torture in hell and heaven than usual.

The One Thing You Can't Lose* - teen/4k.you know those posts about how cas is a super-strong super-tough ancient warrior but he just lets dean tug him around because he likes it? thats it thats the fic.

Hands, From Which All Things Are Built - teen/14k, post s8′s ‘goodbye stranger.’ cas is on the run with the angel tablet but keeps in touch with sam and dean by text, he and dean still manage to be terrible at Actual communication.

Autrement, Danger - or, The Account of an Exceedingly Long Day - mature/30k, post s11. a monster that takes the appearance of your soulmate leads to some wild miscommunications and dealing with years of repression, also dean gets to see cas’ true form which is always cool. tw for non-graphic mentions of underage sexual assault/sex work.

Down to Agincourt - mature/explicit/900++++k, endverse continuation. endverse!cas survives his encounter with lucifer and discovers another time-displaced dean from s7. i’ve only read the two of four parts but its really good, veeeeery slow burn, has a lot of fun oc’s and takes a rather surprising but (imo) entertaining and intriguing turn into Hellenic history and mythology. usual tw’s for endverse/endverse!cas but nothing graphic, it’s actually pretty light-hearted (relatively speaking of course).

Nothing Equals the Splendor** - explicit/8k, THEE finale fix it fic you’ve been waiting for! posits that the entire final episode was just a (very bad and lame) djinn’s vision.

like moses and batman and james dean - explicit/31k, post s8. explores dean’s trauma and internalized homophoba from his technically canon experience with sex work and its impact on his relationship with cas. the sex work itself isn’t really shown in any detail but it’s still a relatively heavy fic.

Crazy Diamonds - explicit/25k, s4/alternate s14. fresh-out-of-hell dean and dean from 10 years in the future are displaced from time and sent to each other’s present.

where the weeds take root - explicit/30k. au where the men of letters kick them out of the bunker and they accidentally move out into the country, get over their codependence and semi retire. featuring chicken coop building, sam volunteering at a dog shelter, gardening, and blissfully mundane domesticity.

No Resting Place - teen/6k. djinn dream fic, switches back and forth between cas’ dream of being married to dean and retired from hunting to the aftermath when he wakes up. tw for brief mention of suicide since, y’know, djinn dream.

any port in a storm - mature/52k. post s8 finale. cas and dean have to pose as a couple going through a rough patch for a case and actually deal with their emotional baggage, cas struggles with being human and metatron is up to stuff.

all this and heaven too* - explicit/7k. in the author’s own words ‘...a love letter to every trans person who ever projected onto Dean Winchester.’ absolutely unzipped me emotionally and theologically, its just. so good. tw for very brief mentions of internalized transphobia/dysphoria.

Because it is* - mature/6k, finale fix it. killing chuck does not bring back anyone back and the winchesters spend a very long time dealing with what they’ve lost, cas and dean SOMEHOW still manage to have signifigant communication issues even after the confession. tw for suicidal thoughts/brief attempt.

Vena Amoris and Other Old-Fashioned Bullshit* - teen/4k, s6. when cas fell for dean it automatically soulbonded/angel married them, shenanigans ensue when dean finds out during the angel’s civil war. funny and actually written back when s6 was airing so cas is still (or at least pretending to be) kind of an OP asshole which is fun.

Rinse, Repeat - teen/3k, s8. angsty character study of cas as he’s reprogrammed and trained to kill dean. not really dean/cas since its just cas’ pov of canon events but its beautifully written and ends with him snapping out of it through the power of love (also now a canon event!).

Emergence - explicit/59k, canon divergent after s11. dean meets a hunter he only recognizes as their friend claire novak’s missing father, but soon realizes he might be the answer behind the mysterious void in his memories and feelings (aka everyone’s memories of cas are completely wiped away for three years).

Cuckoo And Nest - explicit/10k, early established relationship/character study, cas tries to figure out how he fits into dean’s life and space in the bunker.

Build a Home* - teen/20k, canon divergent s12. sam and eileen are cute and turn the bunker into men of letters/hunters hq and everyone but cas moves in, mutual miscommunication issues and pining ensues.

Down in the River - teen/5k, early s8, cas prays to dean in purgatory while sam and dean try to figure out a way to get him out.

Teaching Poetry to Fish* - mature/52k, ?? BC through the entire series/canon divergent s14 and 15. retelling of crucial scenes throughout the shows timeline from cas’ pov, feat. actual fish and poetry.

the minor fall, the major lift - gen/4k, post confession/finale fixit. dean goes into the empty to save cas and runs into several old friends (and enemies).

With the Kisses of His Mouth* - teen/3k, gen later seasons. dean and cas keep kissing by accident.

Remaining Grace - explicit/109k, alternate s6. au where cas asks dean for help with raphael and dean, of course, does. tw for temporary major character death/semi-graphic depictions of alcohol withdrawal.

The face of heaven.* - teen/10k, au, dean is a regular guy and cas is a fallen star (think ‘stardust’, kinda).

Stories Are Made of Mistakes* - teen/5k. newly human cas has trouble getting used to a human body and humanity in general, but still figures out that he and dean are A Thing before dean does.

Hurry Up And Wait - mature/21k, canon divergent s12. a fairyland and quite possibly LOTR related case comes up and dean goes full fanboy, mary is introduced to the wonders of the peter jackson adaptions, many references and comparisons (including between cas and dean’s ‘friendship’ and arwen/aragon). also charle is still alive and has just been doing fairy stuff this whole time.

There Are Many Things - explicit/28k, s9. cas is extremely lonely/touch-starved and trying to figure out this whole human thing, as well as where he and dean stand after being kicked out of the bunker.

It's A Long Life to Always Be Longing - teen/40k, post s11 finale. amara helps dean by putting him in a magical coma so he can finally get some much needed rest and show him possible futures for him, sam and cas. meanwhile sam and cas go on a roadtrip (or several) to find componets for a spell to wake dean up. really good sam and cas friendship, they actually talk about their shared lucifer trauma and stuff.

Non-Photo Blue - gen/2k, s4/5/alternate s5. fifty moments from cas’ memories of dean.

Tall Grass - explicit/57k, canon divergent post series. cas becomes the ultimate plant dad. feat the wayward sisters gang, cathartic character growth, fun oc’s, domesticity, and lots of actual botanical info-dumping.

on vessels - no rating/gen/2k. established dean/cas, cas tells dean about how he used to imagine what it would be like to have him as his vessel.

search for tomorrow on every shore* - teen/11k, post-finale (extremely derogatory). some angels in jack’s new heaven act out and dean gets temporarily resurrected in 2003 and runs into his younger self.

Architecture of the Minotaur’s Heart - explicit/45k, very canon divergent post s1. dean’s new house seems to have a life and mind of its own, while in his dreams he sees glimpses of a world and apocalypse that never came to be and an angel that looks strangely like his mysterious neighbor, cas. loosely inspired by the book house of leaves (which i highly recommend for fans of weird horror).

The Distance Of The Setting Sun - explicit/17k, post s5. established dean/cas relationship, team free will finally takes advantage of cas’ abilities to go on vacation around the world.

diamond star halo - teen/5k, s11. dean lets cas use him as a temporary vessel while he recovers from rowena’s spell, sam is a long-suffering third-wheel.

Make Known** - teen/16k, s6/7. dean struggles to understand how cas could have become his enemy and whether he ever truly knew him in the first place.

blunt little instrument* - mature/1.4k, post finale. dean finally confronts his father in heaven, very cathartic.

my heart a compass*** - teen/10k, post confession. the empty forces cas to re-experience his most regretted moments while dean tries to snap him out of it and bring him home.

A Crash Course in Someone Else's History - teen/11k, s6. cas from the very start of s4 is brought forward in time by s6!cas to distract the brothers from his and crowley’s plans.

The Cuckoo Father - mature/8k, s7 au. the woman who found cas in the river post-leviathans does not marry him bc he was sent to her by god or whatever, but actually identifies him as jimmy novak and sends him back to claire and amelia.

The Dead Dean Clause* - teen/5k, post alt s5 ending. team free will celebrates surviving taking down lucifer by getting blitzed, cas lies to a cop and gets an impromptu driving lesson. title/description sound dark i know but it’s actually very funny and light.

Suck It, Judy Garland - mature/20k, s12 (after the ‘i love you...i love all of you’ episode). cas and sam have to pretend to be a couple for a case and dean is NOT happy about it.

By Daylight and In Dream - teen/16k, s5. pre-dean/cas, dean invites cas to use his dreams to hide from the other angels. tw for very brief mention of a memory/dream of alastair sexually assaulting dean.

The Five People You Meet in Heaven - mature/22k, post-canon. an actually happy (if sometimes bittersweet) heaven endgame written several years ago, though some details are rather eerily similar to the show’s ending.

heaven is a place on earth* - teen/2k. dean’s pov of some of the times cas left him behind throughout the show, and one alternate ending where he finally gets to stay.

I Cleanse The Mirror - teen/20k, alternate s6. dean’s body is stolen by an ancient elemental and his soul has to hitch a ride in cas’ vessel.

an exploration of gender; angelic*** - mature/4k. *oscar isaac voice* lets get into angel gender politics!! aka cas is trans.

Zenith - explicit/33k, s9. after 9x06 an angry witch curses cas with the ability to see supernatural beings and human souls.

La cucina. - gen/3k, alt s9. dean goes wild helping a newly-human cas find out what kinds of food he likes, or the early s9 domesticity we deserved!

Dean Winchester, Cocksucker at Rest***** - teen/7k, post-finale. john and mary finally come over for dinner and john reacts to dean/cas in a rather predictable fashion. SOOOOOOOOO good omg, its so funny and a little sad and very very cathartic. part of a series that has a few other really good short fics.

The Way You Didn't Go - teen/5k, s15. coda to 15.09, dean has nightmares about the moc!cas timeline.

On Drowning - teen/28k. dean saves cas after he nearly drowns, they both try and deal with the physical/mental fallout (aka the fic where thee iconic “you only touch me when you think I’m dead or dying” originates). tw for realistic depictions of drowning/triage/misc medical information.

The Thirty-Six Questions That Lead to Love* - mature/13k. claire has dean and cas pretend to be her gay dads for a case and they play the titular 36 question game, get mistaken for swingers, and birdwatch, among other things.

Assorted F/F stuff:

Deep Breaths* - mary/ellen, au where mary said no to azazel’s deal and let john stay dead, still becomes a milf.

Like Rebel Diamonds - krissy/claire, they become hunter gf’s on the hunt for cas to kick his ass for taking jimmy. not-so-stealth dean/cas as well.

To Ash and Bone - anna/ruby, same author as the previous fic (p much all of her stuff is good from what i recall). au where ruby is a witch and helps anna when she’s cursed.

Holy Clockwork Angels - jo/ruby, STEAMPUNK au with very cool worldbuiilding.

At Day's End - jo/anna (my fucking KINGDOM for more jo/anna content, the dean/cas parallels are allllll there), au where they are both at the camp in the endverse and gfs.

these posts - ok so not actually a fic but i’m now obsessed with this hannah/meg dynamic.

Tagelied - mary/ellen, the true story of how ellen got into hunting before angels interfered.

Hell's Bells** - meg/abaddon, alternate s8/9 where meg survives crowley’s attack with sam’s help and teams up with abaddon (who she has a sk year old crush on) to take back hell.

The Ecstasy of the Rose - anna/ruby, anna travels back in time to escape heaven and becomes a signifigant part of ruby’s old human life.

Angel Underground - anna/jo, kind of an urban fantasy au with a very intriguing premise (sadly its very short, i’d love to see more if this ‘verse).

Clover, Flame - billie/mary, billie was always the reaper that showed up to take mary after her death(s) over the years.

Drag Me To Heaven - anna/ruby, a variant on the ‘last night on earth’ thing with dean.

Come Home* - jo/anna, canon-divergent au where anna is the new waitress at the roadhouse and helps jo set up a (probably not really) haunted house for halloween.

#if you told me i'd be doing this in 2020 three weeks ago i'd have laughed in your face :/#deancas #supernatural #fic recs #spn femslash #destiel #fic #the alie tag #spn posting

2K notes · View notes

castiel-left-his-mark-on-me · 3 years ago

Note

Hi, Ary, very inactive ex-mutual(i think???) here. Good to see you thriving! ♥ It's been a while since I've dipped my head into cockles stuff. Could I perchance maybe ask uuuuum tf is going on??? lol I see Mish apparently confirmed he used to stay over at Jensen's in Van, and heard newbs were apparently freaking out about it and getting a bit messy, which I get that, business as usual. But I'm also seeing shit about spin-offs? And Jared getting in a twitter fight with Jensen, causing/resulting in stans to going feral and sending hate?? I know you're not as big a fan of Jar, but that's part of why I figured I'd ask you, you usually have a really level head about this kinda stuff. If you don't wanna answer publically, or at all, that's totally chill!

Hey, Rhi! We're still mutuals! Of course we're still mutuals! When I saw the notification of your ask, I was like "Hey! I haven't seen you in a while!" and my husband was like "???" and I said "Tumblr" and he said "Oh."

It was a wild time haha.

In any case, welcome back to the dumpster fire! We are obviously still a mess. So to catch you up, I guess I will start by summarizing both before and after the finale (not sure where you left off so this might be redundant for you) ... basically, it became obvious as the end of the show neared that Jensen was not on board with the plan for the finale; although Jared never stopped singing its praises.

We got confirmation of this during a zoom interview where Jensen said that he actually went into the writers room as well as called Kripke to basically voice how he didn't agree with the direction the final season was going, but he was shot down on all fronts. In another interview, he was asked "What would you tell your younger self going into this career?" And Jensen responded with: "I would tell myself to just keep your head down and do the work" meaning, "Don't try to change things because you can't." I also think that this whole situation is what he wrote "Let Me Be" about for his first Radio Company album, but that is just my own speculation. All of his reluctance, even though he always followed it up with "But I eventually saw the value in the script" or "I came around in the end" (which never sounded sincere, and I don't think he was really trying to sound sincere) made us all very nervous about what was to come for 15x20; and of course, when the last two episodes aired, we saw just how badly they fucked it up.

After the awful finale, the entire fandom became aware of the CW's heavy handed role in the thing, basically squeezing all the life out of SPN to shape it into a ramp from which Walker could launch itself. They not only erased all the love and joy and representation that Cas's love confession gave us, they also tore apart the things that made sense about the bond between Sam and Dean, making it really just about Sam-- and therefore Jared, which of course, Jared seemed to be fine with ... even though no one else was. Misha barely said anything during the finale, and a few of the other actors talked about the show ending in various posts, but Jared tweeted up a storm ... and Jensen? Jensen just sat in sexy-silent resentment of the whole thing. He didn't tweet, he didn't post, he didn't say a word once he no longer had to, and I think that's because he was already going full-steam-ahead on his plans for redemption.

Which brings us to Chaos Machine-- Jensen and Danneel's new production company that is being run by a queer creative director and has a mantra of inclusivity and representation woven throughout it's fabric; and apparently, the first story that Jensen wanted to tell through this new platform is the origin story of Sam and Dean's parents; so last week (?) he announced the upcoming production of "The Winchesters" -- the untold love story of John and Mary. Obviously, John is not the most likable character from the show, so the idea was met with a lot of resentment when it was first announced, but Jensen has gone on to say that he is excited to take on the task of telling the "true" story behind these characters-- the one that makes sense with the pre-established canon and doesn't reject it. So, given that, the idea is being mulled over with a bit more optimism from the fandom.

Who isn't being optimistic though?

Jared Padalecki.

When Jensen made this announcement on Twitter, many of his friends and coworkers congratulated him, but not Jared. Jared responded with a passive aggressive: "I'm happy for you, man, but I wish I didn't hear about it through Twitter." This of course, sent all the die-hard Jared fans into a tizzy and they immediately began asking him if he was serious (hoping it was just a joke-- we all hoped it was because there would be fallout no matter what one's opinion on Jared is). Instead of leaving it there though or just deleting that tweet, Jared went on to tweet some more, saying that he was being serious that he didn't know about the plans for the prequel, and that he was "gutted" that Sam apparenlty wouldn't be included (mind you, this a prequel to SPN... meaning BEFORE Sam and Dean were even born, so how could Sam be included? But Dean is apparently narrating this story so maybe Jared thought Sam should be helping to narrate it? I don't know). But Jared being Jared couldn't just leave that there, he then went on to tweet at Robbie Thompson who was announced as a writer for "The Winchesters" so then Jared went off on him too, calling him "Brutus" and a "coward" acting like Robbie betrayed him (speculation is-- Robbie refused to write for Walker, so Jared is pissed that he essentially chose Jensen over him). He did fairly quickly, remove that tweet attacking Robbie, but of course the damage was done at that point. And it truly only took his first tweet calling out Jensen for some people to be like "Jared-- that sucks if you didn't know but why are you saying any of this publicly?"

As you might know, Jared has had issues in the past with posting hurtful things on social media, and has even used it as a tool for attack before-- calling out customer service agents and public workers that he felt have wronged him, which is bad enough ... but for him to then do the same thing to his best friend of well over a decade? Many people who had once liked him or at least gave him the benefit of the doubt (I used to ...) stopped after this latest twitter tantrum.

However, some people have suspected for some time that J2 had a falling out either shortly before the finale or just after. Their public/social media interactions have seemed awkward, stilted or even non-existent in moments that they normally wouldn't be. In the past year, when Walker premiered, Jensen didn't say much about his friend's new venture other than a "Congrats. buddy" here and there. Later, we learned that Jensen refused to work on the show ... Jared said he make him do it, drag Jensen to the set "kicking and screaming" which made many fans quirk up an eyebrow because, why would Jensen put up a fight unless the two weren't as close as they used to be? And then Jensen moved his family to Colorado (either permanently or for an extended period at least) which is notable considering how he moved to Texas seemingly to be closer to Jared, even buying a house that was near his. All this was just speculation though; but it wasn't until Jared's tweet complaining about not knowing about the prequel that the theories behind them falling out, became less theory and more fact.

The day after his twitter tantrum, Jared tweeted again-- not retracting his statements or apologizing, but instead saying that he and Jensen "talked" and were "all good". Jensen then tweeted too, parroting this statement to some degree, which only made the whole thing even more sour in the mouths of the fans. The fact that Jared didn't apologize for his outburst and throwing his friend under the bus, and also the fact that Jensen-- Mr. Sexy Silence, Mr. Never Tweets, Mr. Tech-Ignorant-and-Proud, actually had to POST SOMETHING saying that he and Jared made up, it just screamed OPTICS. It was obviously the work of agents and PR firms and lots of people going "Look, if you two keep beefing, that will mean the death of both of your projects. Even more people will stop watching Walker, and this SPN prequel will never get picked up due to the scandal." So, the two "made nice" publicly to quell the chaos, but in my opinion, it's all too little too late. Jared started a storm that he can't contain now with a little tweet, and it seems like he knows that too because before he talked about him and Jensen making up, he asked that people "not send threats". He could have just as easily said that he shouldn't have made this a public issue and that he's sorry, but instead, he continued to play the victim and stoke the flames by alerting us all to the damage he's done.

Now, like I said before-- I used to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't think he's an awful human or that he deserves to be attacked or anything, but he is an adult man with very poor judgment and an obvious selfish-streak a mile wide. He should know better, and he should have more respect for his so-called "friends" and "brothers" than to make them targets to public ridicule. I have a hard time believing that Jensen still sees Jared the way he used to, and I wouldn't blame him a bit for wanting to pull away-- especially when he's moving on to so many new and exciting things. Jared certainly deserves happiness just as much as anyone else, but he went on twitter and basically asked for a scandal, and he got one.

The question is now-- was there a motive behind it? Was just looking for a reason to bring his and Jensen's falling out to light-- while making himself looking like the victim in the process? Or did he genuinely not know about the prequel and just decided to go about "not knowing" in the most toxic and hurtful way he could manage?

In any case, that is the drama ... that is the J2 insanity in a rather lengthy nutshell ... that is the tea ... and I hope it all makes sense.

But the good news out of all of this is, Cockles is thriving-- they are happy and in love and Jensen calls Misha "Babe" and Misha misses waking up to see Jensen in the morning, and they are just as cute and wonderful as can be.

So, I will end that there. I am so glad to see you back, and I hope I answered all your questions in a way that made sense ... I tried anyway!

💖💖💖

#omg #I don't even know if this makes sense #this took way too long to write #j2 #cockles #long post #spn family #so glad you see you back again my dear #welcome to hell #it's hotter now

171 notes · View notes

theangiediary · 2 years ago

Text

wait sorry I can't get this out of my head, here's my actual Fandom/Shipping Timeline:

2009, 11years old. Star Trek, McKirk (my very first ship? Not a spirk fan tbh). Eventually also Kirk/Pike 🙈 they're not technically father and son!

2009-2012 HP, specifically the ffnet author Silver Sailor Ganymede. Slytherins, mostly non shippy with some Blaise/Nott. Some drarry.

2011 X-Men first class release, cherik (b!e all the way) (also 91110 which. woof. a doozy!!) + Alex Summers as the bicycle

2011-2012 watched spn for the first time, up to s6ish, non shipper (still no incest)

2011 Thor, non-related AU thorki

2011 ca:tfa stucky/stevebuckypeggy

2013.... Thor 2, related thorki (first incest!)

2013 Pacific Rim, Raleigh/Chuck+.. Chuck/Herc

(I actually do remember distinctly which fic it was that resolved That squick -> A Chance Encounter, followed by Point Made)

2014-2016 big into ca:wa stucky + various previously mentioned, Giles/Spike, some other smaller ships. My ✨Marvel✨ Era (high school). Also. Uhm. Yes, I was really into Check Please! and hockey/hockey rpf. 😌

I think I occasionally read Smith/Wesson? Maybe.

2016-2019 no fandoms, busy with college/family stuff/etc. semi ran a aesthetic blog.

Nov 2020 . The day. That it Happened. little old me reblogging pictures of like, art museums and flowers when Everyone started talking about The Moment. started reading posts for the Drama, rewatched s1, got into the gencest side of Tumblr; mostly the blogs brotherwives and mr-smith-wesson (bc I'm sorry, destiel really doesn't Do It for me Like That 👨‍👨‍👦).

2021 reading the E dark fics wincest, so soulless!sam, pwp, etc. idk if thats really Shipping™️ or just.. porn. EVENTUALLY Gen (+porn) -> Weirdchesters (+porn) -> Wincest (+wincest sexy times and ❤️ Feels❤️)

Started writing/drawing.

2022 bibro nonshipper to deangirl sometimes wincest shipper conversion complete. Added deanjohn and various other characters I'd like to see bend Dean over a table 🥰 (thank you writinginthesecrettrees & kansaskissedlips)

2023 ????

???????

#wow #i kept checking those release dates like 'really? no wait.. really???'#yup! 😅#ah memory lane 😌

6 notes · View notes

gentlemancowboy · 3 years ago

Text

General post to let everyone know you can tag me in any of your edits or fan art for me to reblog. My tracking tag is #bebecas, and below are the fandoms that I follow:

Supernatural

Schitt’s Creek

Marvel

Star Wars (films)

Parks & Rec

Bridgerton

New Girl

The Boys

Sex Education

Succession

Breaking Bad

The Office

The X Files

Stranger Things

Lord of the Rings

Arrested Development

The Good Place

Game of Thrones

Friends

There are definitely some I missed, so just ask if you’re not sure.

Supernatural writers/poets are also welcome to tag me as long as your content doesn’t contain non-con/w*ncest/etc. I am open to most ships, but I don’t read reader insert/rpf (sorry).

And if you want to be tagged in any of my content (edits or writing / spn, schitt’s creek or otherwise), let me know!

#tracking #my fandoms

7 notes · View notes

laf-outloud · 3 years ago

Note

My cousin who is a destiel shipper convinced me to watch the show by telling me about Dean and Cas’s epic love story. So I watched all 15 seasons and the only epic love story I saw was between Sam and Dean. When I told her she completely lost it and yelled, “You ship wincest?!” And I was so confused because I had no idea what that even was - so she showed me what she had read here on tumblr.

I’m baffled, I’m all for representation, but what is going on here? Why is my cousin and so many others convinced that destiel is a thing and that Castiel’s death is a LGBTQIA+ rights issue? And why do people ship Sam and Dean as more than brothers? I’m genuinely asking, because I don’t know how to handle this situation with my cousin who is queer.

(I hope that it’s okay to ask this - I created an account just to research this and found your blog.)

Anon, it's always okay to ask! I'm glad you were able to see the show for what it is, the epic love story of Sam and Dean! One of the things to watch out for with hellers (i.e., Destiel shippers who insist their ship is canon) is the extremes they go to to prove their ship is canon and the insults they lay on those that don't. Normal Destiel shippers think it's fun to imagine Dean and Cas together, but know that it wasn't real in the show. Hellers believe that anyone who doesn't see Destiel as canon automatically ships the romantic (sexual) version of wincest, or an incestual relationship. They call it gross and illegal (not mentioning the fact that Cas is an Angel inhabiting someone else's body and whose body can't give consent... sorry, I digress).

As for wincest, yes, there are fans who ship the romantic version of Sam and Dean together, but the term can also apply to the extremely codependent, but platonic relationship of Sam and Dean. For some really good accounts of why people ship the romantic version, I'll refer you to this post: x I personally don't ship the romantic version, but I can understand those who do.

Now, the trickier question you ask is why people are convinced Destiel is a thing. I was not around at the time Destiel started, but I know some of my followers were so I'm going to leave this question for them to answer.

As for LGBTQ+ rights issue? Once Destiel became a thing, anyone or anything that didn't believe in it was automatically labeled by the hellers as homophobic, including Jensen. There have been a couple of conventions where he's stated that Destiel doesn't exist and also shut down someone who wanted to ask about it. The pushback from hellers was intense. In addition, because the hellers had, by the finale, determined that Destiel was real, the fact that Cas confessed his love, Dean didn't reciprocate and the final two episodes were about the brothers meant that in their mind, "the CW and producers of SPN are cowards! They spent all this time building up Destiel and never paid it off. They're homophobic! They were queerbaiting us the whole time!"

Their view also isn't helped by the fact the Misha Collins has actually queerbaited his fans on Twitter, in conventions and elsewhere teasing them that Cas was in love with Dean and that Dean "had love in his eyes" during the confession. He does this because he's persona-non-grata in the entertainment industry and needs his heller fans money, through his books, cameo appearances, conventions, etc. Once Destihellers are inside the "Destiel is canon" soundproof booth, they only read, hear, see, anything that proves their point, so they're constantly bombarded with opinions that agree with their own (much like extreme political views).

All that being said, the hardest question is how to handle the situation. I guess it depends on the nature of your relationship. Do you spend a lot of time together? Is this an experience you want to share, but can't due to your divergent opinions? Or do you see/talk to her only on occasion and can completely ignore the topic? If you're close, there's are a number of articles online to help people change their mind. I like this one about Belief Remodeling, x especially creating a win-win objective. What is the final result where both of you can accept a win-win? Is it necessary to change her mind, or is the win just agreeing to disagree and enjoying other aspects of the show you can find common ground on?

I hope this answer helps. There are many other blogs here that have additional information that I can help you find, if needed. Whatever you choose, I wish you all the very best and if you need to take a break and bask in the love of Sam and Dean, here you go!

youtube

#Anon ask #anti destiel #anti destihellers #how to talk to hellers #wincest analysis #long post #sam and dean forever #brotherly codependency #anti misha #wincest is not homophobic

19 notes · View notes

mvdeanw · 3 years ago

Note

https://justjensenanddean.tumblr.com/post/659451124030586880

I dunno, their blog is usually very Dean/Jensen focused without drama. Not sure it’s enough to unfollow over, but everyone has different lines.

Nonny, thank you. I see this post was about the J2 drama over the SPN prequel. Everyone was on edge back then (some still are). I don't know about you, but I have no attention to unfollowing someone just because we have different opinions on something. You know? I ultimately follow blogs based on the things we have in common - Dean, Jensen, J2, Sam and Dean, Danneel, John (and my non-SPN interests, which are irrelevant at the moment). You understand it is rare to find many people to share your interests exactly. I haven't met one yet. I am not a shipper, but I LOVE Sam and Dean and J2 (like this close to being confused as a hard shipper, lol), so I feel comfortable with blogs that ship them; it's weird, I know that. But they share Sam and Dean content, and J2's that I enjoy very much, and I have a very open mind which helps too.

I would unfollow, and I did that only if someone was disrespectful and really nasty hateful towards Dean or Jensen while claims that they are fans of them, (if you get what I mean) because they are my Everything. As for the rest I usually simply pass through the posts that are not appealing to my interests and share the ones I like. Life is too short, Nonny. Make the most of it. I assume you love Jared, and I am sorry that you feel hurt because someone is not sharing the same feelings as you do, it sucks big time, I know that. But If you like Dean and Jensen, the @justjensenanddean blog is not to be missed. Just remember that, everyone is free to feel as they wish and that means that not everyone will share your feelings about many things. But your feelings are valid, Nonny, do what you wish! I am just sharing my opinion here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. 💖

#ask answered #anonymous asks #mvdeanw answers

6 notes · View notes

jawritter · 5 years ago

Text

Dean Winchester One Shots

Happy Birthday Dean pt. 1

It’s Dean’s birthday, and you realize something about yourself you never knew before… Until now…

30 Minutes til Midnight (Happy Birthday Dean pt. 2!)

Sequel ot Happy Birthday Dean, will you finally tell him how you feel?

Middle of the road

Can you keep pretending your just friends, or will it all come out in the middle of the road.

Lonely as the grave

Dean struggles with his reality visiting the graveyard in his hometown of Lawrance, Kansas

The Fool

The reader comfronts Lisa, based on the song The Fool by Leanne Walmack

The Meeting

A secret releationship getts heated during a meet up

Waiting…

Waiting on your hero hunter to come home can be one of the harderst things you ever do.

Finally Yours

Alpha!Dean is in Rut, and only one Omega can help him through it!

Home

Six years ago Christmas Eve Dean made the biggest mistake of his life under influence of the Mark of Cane.

It Was Fifteen Years Ago Today

Haunted by the past tramas even Dean needs a little comfort sometimes.

I Did It Because I Love You

Dean’s been a complete and total asshole, what happenes when the reader finally has all she can take.

Happy Valenties Day Sweetheart

Dean shows the reader a little bit of his softer side….

I Kinda Like The Disease…

Your search for your demon boyfriend takes you to New Orleans during mardi grag…

Challenge Accepted..

Requested: ok so here is a request(idk if you do these)(also it’s smut) so dean talks about how good he is in the bedroom and the reader says something along the lines like “i bet you can’t make me come” Dean challenges this. In the bedroom and you know they doing the dirty or whatever. Dean edges her and edges her and just when the reader had enough of the teasing Dean finally takes her over her edge and the reader is left with the most hot shaking orgasm ever. I hope this makes sense! ❤️ur stories!!

Your Perfect

Request: the reader is always willing to go down on Dean but when Dean goes to return the favor the reader stops him and always finds an excuse. No one has ever offered to go down on her before so she’s insecure about it and doesn’t want to look weird in from of dean. i Hope this makes sense!

Curves

Requested: Can I request a Dean Winchester x plus size reader, where she really shy and dorky but believes that she really bad at sex because she is bigger? And dean shows her that she not 😊💕 I hope this make sense haha! I know this sound awkward turtle 🐢

You Deserve Better Than Me

Requested: Dean winchester x pregnant Reader. Dean feels the reader deserves better than what he can give her in his life, what will he do when he finds out that she’s expecting his baby?

Quarantine

Summery: Everyone is stuck in quarantine right now everywhere, and your stuck alone with Dean, who really needs to blow off steam… Oh what has your big mouth gotten you into now…

My Best Friend

Request: hiii i have dean x reader request! the reader and dean are friends with benefits but recently she’s just been down in the dumps and just wants some platonic affection and not sex. as the writer you can do what u want but could you add Dean playing with the readers hair? i have a weakness for it lol thanks!

Just A Dream…

Part 1

Part 2

Winchesters Fantasies 1000 follower Challenge…

Daddy’s Home

Request: Hey I know this is odd, but I really enjoy your writing and I was wondering if you could possibly do a little smutty Dean thing? Maybe using the name Lyn, and really anything is on the table, I mean, it’s Dean Winchester. (Or if you want, some daddy kink and maybe just rough stuff :o) Thank you dear!! You don’t have to if ya don’t want to, no pressure 💕💕

Like Pulling Teeth

Request: Okay, so I was just watching few recent spn episode and saw Garth episode. Which gave me an curious idea, can you write dentist reader x dean? They’re in a relationship, one day when dean eats something, it pains and reader has to look into it? and then reader says wisdom tooth extraction? Also the fear of dentist which dean already has (shown in the episode, I found it very funny) I know it’s a weird request but I also think it would be very funny🙈

Little Details…

Request: Could I maybe request a Chubby!Reader x Dean story? She’s super sweet and kind of laid back, just going along with the boys as a research partner, but she’s also super artsy and loves to draw Dean while she researches. Maybe some sweet and soft smut, oh! And maybe he plays with her hair? :) Thanks dear!! 🌻💛

Age Is Just A Number…

Request Hello :) How do feel about an age difference, post sex one-shot? Alternate universe (no hunting), consensual, not underage but quite a big age difference (like at least 10years) where Dean is like freaking out because he’s Dean and doesn’t want to destroy the girl’s life?

Mine…

Request: Could you do a one shot where the reader lives with Sam and dean they are best friends. The reader and dean have a secret relationship and dean gets jealous of the reader and Sam hanging out all day. So dean shows the reader who she belongs too in the bedroom.

Right In Front Of You…

Request: Dean x Reader. Reader is hunting with Sam and Dean, and she is constantly getting annoyed at every single thing that Dean does. And she always acts very bad with Dean with this making dean think that she hates him. And that makes mr very sad because he has feelings for her but when Dean save her sacrificing himself from a hunting gone wrong. She stars to develop feelings for him.

Jealous Of My Demons...

Requested: Dean get’s jealous of the reader’s former boyfriend Brady, who is now posses by a demon and working as a stable boy for the horseman pestilence. Who will they work this out?

Princess...

Request: Thank you for answering my question love!💕 can I request a Dean x plus size reader where she is super shy and it drives dean crazy? Fluff, smut? I’m sorry to bother you hahah and that this sounds awkward turtle 🐢 🖤😻

My Girl...

Requested: Hola! request for dean x reader: the readers current boyfriend always puts her down and one day threatens to breakup with her if she doesn’t lose weight, even though she’s not even plus sized or anything. She constantly pushes her body to the limit to lose the weight and dean notices. it ends all fluffy and protective!dean comes out and has a “talk” with the boyfriend. side note for anyone reader this: YOUR BODY IS BEAUTIFUL MAMA 💗🥺

Your Dean...

Request: Heyy! I'm sorry to be a bother. I was wondering if you can do a one shot where the reader is prone to severe panic attacks and her husband Dean is the only one who knows how to calm her down? She gets a really bad attack but Dean for some reason ain't there, and no one is able to help her but eventually he comes back and takes care of her. Sorry if this is a lot haha.

Safe. Warm. His...

Request: Are you taking requests? If so would you possibly write a one shot with Dean where the reader is in little space and just wants to cuddle and nuzzle her head in his neck and give him lots of little kisses and play with his hands? It’s just superrrr fluffy 🥺🥺🖤

One Hell Of A Thank You...

Request: Can I request a Dean Winchester x plus size reader, where the reader is really quirky and dorky and goes on a date but turns out her date is a vampire and kidnapped her and dean saves her and falls in love with her, maybe some angst, fluff and smut 💕

Voices..

Request: Can I request? Dean x reader were she has an Eating Disorder and she’s recovering but today was an off day for her and starts to go back to her old habits and Dean notices and helps her through it.

His Girl...

Request: May I request a Dean Winchester x plus size reader where the reader is very shy and she at a bar and some dirt bags are picking on her about her shortness and weight and dean stands up for her? Some smut and fluff ?? Also want to say you are a bop of a writer my love! ✨💕🥰❤️

Happily Ever After...

Request: Hey beautiful! May I request a Dean Winchester x plus size reader where the reader does all the research for the boys and she is very shy,she a huge Disney fan, one day demons get in the bunker and make fun of her and dean stand up for her and confess his love for her (smut)? And after they cuddle and watch lady and tramp? Fluff and smut you are a gem my dear! 💕

His New Toy...

Request: Hai can I request dean x reader smut with breast bondage and nipple play?? plot (if there is any) is up to you ;)

His Heaven...

Request: Heyy I love your ABO fics and I have a request for you. You can always say no to this if you’re uncomfortable. I’ll completely understand and I’m very sorry. Can you do one with Alpha!Dean x Omega!reader. Where the reader is on a supply run and she gets assaulted and tortured by a monster and when she gets back to the bunker somehow, she only allows her Alpha anywhere near her and refuses help from anyone else. Dean takes care of her and helps her heal.

Something Worth Fighting For

Request: Hi love! Your writing is amazing and I was wondering if you could do a Dean x depressed!reader? Like dean finds the reader about to jump off the roof of the bunker after reading the note she left him and sam saying goodbye. He had never suspected anything cause she hid it so well. Dean saves her and tells her his feelings for her? You can also add any details you want or anything like that! There is no rush! Thank you!

Unlikely Places

Trigger Warning: Non-Con

Request: Hi! I love your work! Can you do a ABO? One where the reader is Beta, and Dean Alpha, and she’s his true mate/soulmate, but they don’t know it, and he gets possessive and goes into almost a feral rut where he tries to claim, and it almost kills her but Sam and Rowena save her and give Dean his Omega back? You come up with the plot because you’re amazing at that!! Please! I’d be forever in your debt!

I Hurt Too

Request: hi there! I have seen loads of fics and one shots where Dean is sleeping around/having a one night stand and the reader gets jealous and upset, but I was wondering if I could request one with the other way around? or maybe one where they sleep around equally? as smutty, fluffy, or angst as you want!!

What’s Left Of Me

Summary: Who know one little woman could have turned his whole world upside down? He had done so good alone for so long. Then here you come along, and ruin everything

Elf

Summary: Maybe being stuck at home alone with Dean for Christmas isn’t so bad after all.

Save Me

Summary: It’s not always easy being the hero, especially when no one is ever there to save you.

Saving Grace

Summary: Some things are worth fighting for, even when they think they’re not. You can either roll over and die, or you can pick yourself up off the ground and go get what you want. That’s the place Y/N now finds herself in.

Living With Regret

Summary: Death can be hard to deal with in any aspect, but when you’re in the life, it's something you deal with all to often, and carry with you until it's your turn to burn.

Happy Halloween

Summary: It’s Daddy’s favorite holiday. So what’s a good girl gonna do, but let him blow off some steam after a successful hunt?

I’ll Wait For You

Summary: Sometimes when we’re angry, hurt, or scared we say things wrong. Say things that hurt the ones we love. When Dean takes things a step to far can you find it in your heart to forgive him?

An Alpha And His Omega

Summary: Sometimes Alpha’s aren’t the assholes, sometimes words Omegas say things that can hurt too.

No, Screw You Sweetheart

Summary: You HATE Dean Winchester, I mean you really, REALLY hate Dean Winchester.

30 Minutes In Heaven

Summary: Your life, like many hunters before you, was cut short. You had no idea at the time the Fates that were at play in the universe were really those of dick angles and egotistical assholes with massive god complexes. And you also had no idea that they were really the reason you lost your life, and you had no idea why… Until around 30 minutes after you made it to Heaven.

The Devil And I

Pt. 1 Pt. 2 Pt. 3

Summary: What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger, right? You survived after you thought your mate had died, but how will you survive finding out he's alive, only different.

Don’t Let It Show...

Summary: She’s had enough of him, just like every other woman always seems to, and normally, he doesn’t care, but this time...this time it hurts.

Don’t Fear The Reaper

Summary: They took him from her, her knit, her king, her Dean, “cured” him, and now she’s going to get him back, she’s going to set him free.

Scars And All

Summary: You and Dean have a strange, mutual relationship, but that’s all it is, physical. Until an almost bar fight brings some things to light that you thought you’d never hear.

I Almost Lost You

Summary: Sometimes, monsters aren't always monsters...sometimes they're people.

Touch Starved

Summary: Sometimes when the hunt is hard, and his mind is loud, Dean just wants to be close to someone he loves, but is to scared to say it out loud. Thankfully, she knows him better than he knows himself.

I Wanna Be Your Everything

Summary: After a huge fight, and a week away from Dean, he’s finally decided it was okay to have the ending he’d always wanted.

One More Sunset

Summary: Dean just wants the pain to go away...

#jawritter masterlist #Dean winchester one shots #jawritter

997 notes · View notes

nancylou444 · 3 years ago

Text

I tried to be nice

Replies to this post:

------------------------

Became this:

THEM: hi! thanks for the answers I really appreciate the discussion. normally if someone ships something I don’t like or something like that, I’ll just leave them alone but.. just to be clear I completely respect all of your opinions, even agree with some of them, even if we might disagree on the incest and Castiel haha. So I don’t mean any disrespect with this at all, please let me know if I’m out of line though!

But... I saw some things you said, and they come across to me in a way that I don’t think you intended? I feel really awkward sending this haha, you’re very nice and I don’t think you said anything on purpose, but I just.. wanted to let you know that some of the things regarding your opinion on certain characters come across not very well? I don’t think it’s intentional or anything, and I don’t mean to call you out at all which is why I didn’t want to point it out in the replies y’know?

Don’t get me wrong though, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with not liking castiel or destiel. I’ve been watching the show for a while with my dad, and he isn’t a huge fan either, I don’t think that’s a problem :)

I’d continue without waiting for a response but I don’t want to say something you’ve already been told, or continue without knowing if I’ve said something out of line already 😅

ME: I'm kind of distracted dealing with my Mom's rehab center. But you can keep going.

THEM: Alright! I’ve tried rephrasing this a million times but I don’t know how to make it seem not antagonistic. I promise I don’t mean that you’re doing it intentionally, it’s just, uh a lot of your criticism of spn feels like it could be read as homophobic? Again I don’t think YOU are I just wanted you to know it kind of reads that way!

That sounded so confrontational. I really don’t mean it that way 😭

ME: HOMOPHOBIC? Really? A lot of the 'proof' your fellow shippers use border on stereotypes but you think I'M homophobic? Considering my top two ships are Wincest and Malec. Yeah, sounds confrontational.

THEM: I’m sorry, I didn’t mean it like that. I guess there’s no other way to say it, but I understand why you feel accused. What do you mean by proof..?

Also I don’t really think having gay ships means you can’t be homophobic. *I* used to be homophobic years ago, and I’m a gay person!

ME: How old are you? https://nancylou444.tumblr.com/post/154098904136/a-guide-to-dean-winchesters-imaginary-bisexuality

THEM: yeah this is starting to get frustrating. I’m gonna be real with you, why does it matter if people think dean is bisexual? like, bottom line, that is my question for you

and your answer will determine if your veracity is homophobic. why does it matter that some people think dean is bisexual. not the fans or actors or writers or anything. why does it matter that some viewers will watch, and they will think dean is bisexual?

ME: My problem isn't that some people think he is bi IN FANON, my problem is that they want CONFIRMATION OF A FANON SHIP. And that some people DENY how the show ended. These same people think that fake weddings are more canon than the FINAL EPISODE.

THEM: I get what you mean, but how is it a fanon ship when it’s confirmed romantic from one side, and interpretable as mutually reciprocated in Latin America? (I’m going to disregard the bit about the wedding, because I’m a firm believer in Neil Gaiman variety death of the author. Also that’s just people having fun with fanon, who cares?)

ME: Confirmed romantic?By whom MISHA, who wanted to sell necklaces? Have you never said 'i love you' to a FRIEND or FAMILY member? The dub is not canon, so don't even try using that as proof. Death of the author is just another way of saying MY VIEW OF THE SHOW IS SUPERIOR TO HOW THE CREATOR WANTS TO SEE IT. Jensen has said many times that the ship isn't canon and that Dean is straight. But it's better to believe what Misha says because he agrees with you. You think somebody is bi because of how they sit or the color clothes they wear? That would make YOU homophobe.

THEM: LOL You know what? I change my answer. I looked through your blog and you ACTIVELY and viscously hate Cas, Charlie, Claire, Kaia and the implication that Jack may not be straight. You’ve said Cas coming out as gay and in love with dean makes the rest of his actions predatory, compared him to a teenage girl, called him creepy, and openly rejoiced in your idea that dean looked ‘disgusted with him’. You said that Claire is awful, that Kaia is a wooden plank, that they ‘shoved them together’ for ‘woke points’ and said that Jody saying Claire was IN LOVE WITH Kaia ‘doesnt count’ and called it ‘lip service’. And it doesn’t end there! After all this, you said that you preferred the old better s4 Claire. Is it because she was ostensibly straight? Are you uncomfortable with queer women? And then you have the audacity to use these characters (Claire and Kaia and Charlie) as reasons to epicly own the Hellers and claim they already have represention. You are a completely disingenuous bitch and I don’t care to be nice to you anymore! I don’t feel AT ALL charitable toward you anymore, and I don’t care if you have gay ships. Gay people aren’t here for you to fetishize! You CONSTANTLY mock and ridicule jokes made by queer people regarding deans bisexuality or Cas being gay or any number of things. You constantly reaffirm that Dean is straight and call people who think otherwise delusional and disgusting, while you think dean is in romantic sexual love with his male sibling. You are openly hostile to the idea of non-binary jack and were pissed that Alcal endorsed that. You devalue Jack’s value and relationship to Cas who is, textually, his father figure. I have NO reason not to think that you are homophobic. I don’t care anymore! You’re a huge bitch and, judging by your prior responses and posts, a genuine dialogue regarding queerness in spn is impossible. You regard any instance of canonically queer moments ‘lip service’ and so regard it. You actively hate every canonically gay character and degrade them using traditionally homophobic tropes and stereotypes.

Feel free to explain how you aren’t homophobic. I’m so sorry if I got the wrong impression.

ME: Wow I see your true colors have come out HELLER.

THEM: Idc if you think I’m mean. Go ahead and make a post about me lol, have fun with it. Give me a moment to respond to your paragraph it’s... a lot to dissect.

I’ll touch on your comments about the dub and the Spanish language in a moment. First though

I ’m gonna be real with you, I don’t think you know what death of the author is. Neil Gaiman’s variety of the dead author principal is that once canon ends, the story belongs to those that consume and engage with it. That’s... also literally the theme of supernaturals final season. Anyway I really recommend you read up on death of the author and Neil Gaiman’s takes on fanon. It’s a fun way to consume your media, and in the end that’s what I’m here for.

I don’t care what Misha says, and I don’t care what Jensen says! I think they are both queer because I have eyes and watched the show. I think it’s a lovely narrative that is supported by canon, and it’s fine if you disagree with that

On your last sentence there... lol. It’s a common joke in queer circles that gays can’t sit properly, specifically bisexuals. Same thing with the clothing, it’s a SUPER common joke for example that lesbians wear flannel. Maybe you need to go outside and talk to some normal, non-incest shipping queer people. But what do I know!

And finally... ‘the Spanish dub isnt canon’

I am literally cuban. My first language is SPANISH. my entire household speaks Spanish, and my family past 1st cousins don’t speak any English. My Boricua cousins have watched supernatural in full for years, and they watch it in Spanish. Do you think America is the center of the universe? Do you think our media is somehow less than yours, that our interpretations of English language media isn’t valid? What, do you think we are idiots who don’t know how to analyze literature and media? Do you think the people who work at Telemundo, people employed as dubbers and translators, you think they do a worse job than the American crew?

Why, because they aren’t American or don’t speak English? ‘Te amo’ said to a non family member is, in 99% of any instance, ROMANTIC. it’s something you say to your spouse in serious situations like weddings!! Even MARRIED people don’t normally say te amo, everyone uses te quiero unless it is very serious or romantic in context.

All of my family who are Spanish language, they heard dean say ‘y a yo ti, cas’ and think that they were in romantic love. Sorry dude! The United States might be the center of your universe, but Latin America is HUGE. Spanish is one of the most spoken languages in the WORLD. In fact, more people speak Spanish than English. Sorry that you seem to hate gay characters SO MUCH you have to say an entire language somehow isn’t valid to consume media in!

ME:

Obviously this heller is batshit crazy.

Some of those things she thinks I said just show she has no idea how to follow a tumblr thread.

You are a completely disingenuous bitch and I don’t care to be nice to you anymore! I don’t feel AT ALL charitable toward you anymore, and I don’t care if you have gay ships. Gay people aren’t here for you to fetishize! You CONSTANTLY mock and ridicule jokes made by queer people regarding deans bisexuality or Cas being gay or any number of things. You constantly reaffirm that Dean is straight and call people who think otherwise delusional and disgusting, while you think dean is in romantic sexual love with his male sibling.

Wow.

I have NO reason not to think that you are homophobic. I don’t care anymore! You’re a huge bitch and, judging by your prior responses and posts, a genuine dialogue regarding queerness in spn is impossible. You regard any instance of canonically queer moments ‘lip service’ and so regard it. You actively hate every canonically gay character and degrade them using traditionally homophobic tropes and stereotypes.

Where have I hated canon gay characters and degraded them using tropes and stereotypes? The bitch has me confused with HER FELLOW SHIPPERS.

Gotta love how she is defending the Spanish dub. Hit a nerve did I?

It’s a common joke in queer circles that gays can’t sit properly, specifically bisexuals. Same thing with the clothing, it’s a SUPER common joke for example that lesbians wear flannel. Maybe you need to go outside and talk to some normal, non-incest shipping queer people.

Now who is using stereotypes?

#destiehellers #batshit crazy #your headcanon doesn't mean shit dean is straight #dub doesn't make it canon

24 notes · View notes

whengeorgiawentblue · 3 years ago

Note

I think people sometimes forget that Jensen gets just as much hate from quite a few destiel/Misha fans as Misha gets from the J2/wincesties (and honestly, Jensen also gets hate from some of them as well, particularly after the J2 fallout) and sadly there actually is a double standard among said destiel/Misha fans. Those are the fans who demand that Jensen answer destiel questions at cons, and if he doesn’t or doesn’t answer the way they want him to, they start accusing him of homophobia. And yet those same fans make posts about how Misha is more than Cas or destiel (apparently Jensen isn’t in their minds?) and people don’t have the right to expect there to be destiel questions at cons or for Misha to answer them in a specific way. And they’re absolutely right, but that also applies to Jensen. As a destiel shipper who likes and respects both characters and actors equally, it’s sadly difficult to find other destiel fans who feel the same way, and it takes quite a bit of wading through the Jensen haters to do so.

I don't know which heller blogs are you following, but in the ones I follow or keep track I have never seen any Jensen hate. Yes, I have seen people disappointed with things Jensen could have said in the past, but no way something like "hate" against Jensen. And about calling Jensen "homophobic", as far as I know (as I recall from the confession episode and the impact in SM) was more an unfair meme spreading all over tumblr and the rest on the Internet in those days in mostly non-spn blogs.

Also, how could we say Jensen is homophobe, when he has supported the LGBT community many times, he's the one "holding up the rainbow" and loves and supports his lesbian aunt?

Not to mention (you would agree or disagree with me, anyway it's my point of view...) that he's bisexual and has been in a relationship with Misha for many years (sorry I don't make the rules😏)

Where I have seen A LOT of hate has been in bronlies/wincest blogs since Jared's rant in the prequelgate. Seriously, have a look at this and this

#jensen ackles #anti wincest #anti bibros #anti j2 #anti jared padalecki #cockles #misha collins #destiel

14 notes · View notes

septembersghost · 3 years ago

Note

You are literally the only person I have seen on all of Tumblr who has sane, non-horrifying things to say about this whole mess, thank you.

I'm so upset by how the vast majority of people (going by note counts on post) aka destiel and cockles fans are celebrating this situation between Jared and Jensen and act all thrilled and ecstatic about it. Meanwhile, the J2/Jared stand have all turned into Jensen hate blogs, which I find equally upsetting.

Whether you like Jared or not (and I'm not his biggest fan either), fact is that he and Jensen were very close for a very long time and something like this would hurt like hell. This is a very close friendship and bond between two actual human beings breaking apart here and that is bound to be very painful and certainly not something to cheer for. I know it would absolutely kill me if I were in Jared's position, I'd be crying my eyes out. He probably is too, going by the description of that one fight they had back in S2 that they've talked about, which also ended with Jared crying. I disagree with Jared carrying this out over Twitter instead of immediately calling Jensen or texting him, but even though I've always been a Dean and Jensen girl at heart, the way Jensen apparently handled this was... not great and I have a hard time understanding how it got that far.

My only theory is that Jared had no idea just how deeply upset and angry Jensen was about how everything went down with the end of SPN and Jensen has been silently stewing for months. When the S15 DVD box set was released and Jared said that "I know Jensen bristled a little about it" line about the finale, followed by Jensen unenthusiastically telling the floor "yeah, sure, I didn't hate it..." I remember thinking "Bristled a little bit? Sounds like a serious amount of downplaying Jensen's feelings. Do you truly believe that, Jared?"

Like, I don't even follow SPN that closely anymore, but even I noticed how conflicted and unhappy Jensen was in multiple interviews about the ending of the show, even months before the finale. And Jensen is always very professional under normal circumstances and tends to keep his thoughts and feelings to himself, so I thought it was highly unusual that he let his true feelings shine through so obviously. Then his silence about the finale, except for one sarcastic post and his silence ever since, not taking part in the videos and promotions you'd expect him to also take part in as one of the two main characters of the show, talking about a reboot and how Dean would get bored in heaven only 5 months after the show ended during that panel (talking about a reboot so soon (and even earlier before the show even ended iirc) always struck me as rather weird)... I always felt a lot of tension and unhappiness from Jensen in all of this and Jared must have seriously underestimated how much this meant to Jensen and I think Jensen may have felt let down (or even stabbed in the back, since we're going all Et tu brute? apparently) by Jared when Jensen tried to get the ending changed, but Jared clearly didn't support him because the thought it was perfect (urgh).

I don't even know anymore where I'm going with this and sorry for ranting, I just think it's very sad to see and even worse to see how peopl are reacting to it. I hope they can work things out between them, I don't want either one of them to be in pain and I think they both are right now.

oh anon :( thank you for sending this. I empathize with you completely. it makes my heart ache to see people rejoicing in what looks like a painful situation, or rooting for the downfall of a friendship, it's so lacking in any sort of compassion that I can't even wrap my mind around it. it's like the worst form of schadenfreude, and there's nothing to warrant it. it's too mean-spirited for me. I have not been able to reconcile some of the cruel and petty behavior from varying sides of fandom with the show and characters I love and am trying to protect/hold onto for many months now (if not longer, in my previous haunts on Tumblr). acting like this is some sort of sick burn and a win is awful. mocking someone for being blindsided and hurt is awful. (and I don't mean silly meme humor posts, which are to be expected - some of what is happening is WAY beyond that and is celebration of someone being hurt and that doesn't sit well with me.) acting like this is a reason to turn into mindless hate blogs/tweets and to burn someone to the ground - and this before we even know what's really happening, not that anything makes that fandom behavior acceptable - is also awful. it's all just really upsetting.

the lack of consideration/empathy or even measured responses startles me, as if they're not real people who have been through a lot, who have openly and publicly shared a lot of things for many years, especially about their bond and friendship, so seeing anything happen to that is tough. and having a friend hurt you is one of the worst kinds of heartbreak. it's hard to recover from it, and it's especially going to be raw the MOMENT it happens, and most of us don't have that moment in front of millions of eyes. truth be told, I cried for him, for them. (granted, I am an overly sensitive weepy. but still.) completely agree with you that he's probably incredibly hurt and having an instantaneous emotional reaction, and it's very hard to control that kind of a response when you're put in a sudden position. I wish he hadn't carried it out on Twitter, but I also wish Jensen hadn't made a public announcement on Twitter without giving him a very quick heads up (I refuse to believe he couldn't text him even, like, five minutes ahead of time to let him know the press release was happening. that might still have really hurt him, but then whatever happened between them in the conversation would've been private? he was blindsided publicly and responded publicly, it's unfortunate, but I really do get it).

even though I've always been a Dean and Jensen girl at heart, the way Jensen apparently handled this was... not great and I have a hard time understanding how it got that far. this absolutely.

Jensen has confused me since March when he started enthusiastically hailing the finale and said what he said about Dean (which put a permanent crack in my mind between him and my feelings about/interpretation of Dean as a person), he's been almost too effusive in telling everyone how great it was and how much he loved it after how he struggled with it (literally calling himself the finale's #1 fan was a choice), and we do know he had difficulties with it. I don't know if that was his way of making peace with it or compartmentalizing it? he had to adjust and deal with it somehow, and he's been adamant about his pride in the show and their legacy, so his early qualms are very hard to parse now, and come across more as upset at the permanence of it and the idea of the boys being separated for that length of time. obviously we have no idea what went on behind-the-scenes or how Jensen dealt with his initial feelings, but if he was that upset and angry and has let it fester, he...needed to talk it out or let Jared know or something. maybe he thought he couldn't for professional reasons. it kills me because there was nothing he or they could do about it. I know, from the bits they've told us, that Jared accepted it more quickly, so maybe Jensen didn't feel like he could speak up, but we also know that they went into the writers' room and were told they had absolutely no say in the ending (which I'm still fuming about myself). I didn't see the clip you reference from the boxset (only because I haven't watched any of the S15 extras due to my own hurt surrounding it), but I believe your description of it. I think almost everyone, from the S15 writers to Kripke to the cast themselves, maybe even Jensen himself, downplayed Jensen's emotional response to what happened - and things like that can absolutely bubble over after a period of time if you don't deal with them.

even I noticed how conflicted and unhappy Jensen was in multiple interviews about the ending of the show, even months before the finale. And Jensen is always very professional under normal circumstances and tends to keep his thoughts and feelings to himself, so I thought it was highly unusual that he let his true feelings shine through so obviously. yes. I've talked about this several times in the past, but his distress was absolutely palpable initially, and it scared me right away and hung like a fog over the entirety of S15 as I watched it, until the worst of the fears I had were crushingly realized. he said repeatedly it unsettled him, he seemed to be really grappling with it, he was told he was "too close" to it. as many times as he said he was proud of them last year, it wasn't until earlier this year that he more fully changed his tune, and said he couldn't be happier with the ending. I wondered if maybe enough had happened/time had passed to give him a sense of closure, but it's hard to say, especially given what's just taken place. he's also said some starkly contradictory things, which is something else we tend to do when grieving and trying to make sense of whatever loss has taken place (he said he was happy with the ending in one breath, and it had to be that way, and only a few minutes later was talking about a reboot and Dean being bored in heaven. the thoughts don't entirely align) - but he spoke about bringing Dean back basically from the announcement of the ending, including the video he posted the day the finale aired (which is burned into my brain) of him lacing up Dean's boots for the "last" time and his insistence that it's not goodbye forever. it seems like he's had a lot of conflicting emotions over how all of that transpired. it's baffling to me why he wouldn't just SAY that, even if there was nothing he could do about it, to his closest friend and co-star of fifteen years (I want to be like, "BOYS! JUST TALK OMG!" not to trivialize it but. boys...). Jared thinking it was great baffles me too (Jared actually always had good insights into Sam so...I don't get how he was cool with that). they poured so much of themselves into that last episode - the moments of it that are true and deeply felt are because of them - but I imagine it was harrowing psychologically and emotionally.

I always felt a lot of tension and unhappiness from Jensen in all of this and Jared must have seriously underestimated how much this meant to Jensen and I think Jensen may have felt let down this is absolutely possible, not that it excuses...personally and professionally hurting someone in return. it's a mess. don't be sorry for ranting, I hear you on all of this. I just think it's very sad to see and even worse to see how people are reacting to it. indeed. 💔

I was just telling a friend that when I was reading the TV Guide yesterday morning, this quote of Jared's really stood out to me - he said: "Sam to some degree doesn't exist without Dean. It was an honor for me to play the reluctant hero, with Jensen as a swashbuckler." my main takeaway from it is that he knew, as Jensen did, how much those characters were to one another and informed the story, and both of them have always expressed such appreciation and love for the other that it's...not only confusing seeing this, it's saddening. I know we're all made aware of parasocial relationships these days, but just from a human perspective and someone who's cared about them for a decade and a half, I hope they'll be okay, and I hope whatever's happening can be mended. the last thing I would wish on either of them, after they brought a light to my life all these years, is any pain, and it hurts to think of either of them suffering right now, after all they gave and sacrificed and invested in the show for such a significant portion of their lives, after all they shared with each other, and after what they gave to many in the audience seeking a place where we could find bravery and strength and the comfort of unbreakable bonds, even in a dark and frightening world. their friendship in the real world was an extension of that, and I'm wishing them both any healing that they may need.

#anonymous #letterbox #this was really nice of you and i appreciate it #jensen ackles #jared padalecki #supernatural

14 notes · View notes