HEY. POINTS FINGER… any thoughts on how everyone reacted when the other joined the team? as in how did killer react when dust came, how did he and dust react when horror came, how did they all react when cross came, etc. i love love LOVE your bad sanses thoughts way too much they make me so happy. if i write hurt you write comfort and it’s awesome. also how do you think they slowly started to get closer? just.. bah give me your thoughts on them!!!! any thoughts!!!!!!!!!
You fool!! You’ve given me a chance to ramble about my special little guys and now this post will stretch on forever!! Mwahahahahah >:3c
No but seriously this is probably gonna be wicked long cause I have 1 million thoughts about these guys joining and meeting each other so uh, readmore for everybody’s safety and sanity
(^ I wrote that in the document before I started typing out my actual thoughts and uh
yeah no kidding, this is like a fucking essay so proceed with caution)
OKAY SO
I’ve said before that Nightmare got Dust for two reasons; one being that Dream had just recently started working with Ink (and soon Blue) so he and Killer were no longer able to gang up on Dream. He wanted somebody else to bulk up their numbers and give Killer a little back up. He also was starting to realise that Killer didn’t handle being alone very well, since this was when he most often got worked up and broke things around the castle (and sometimes tipped over into stage 3). Dust would be a perfect fit since he had the same amount of lvl and fighting experience as Killer, and since they were so close in circumstance they would be practically like brothers right?
The irony that he thought this about a guy he was recruiting to help kill his brother was apparently lost on him.
They absolutely hated each other. Like, it was instant. Killer saw him as a replacement, why would boss go out and get another sans - one with almost the same backstory as me - when I’m right here? Does he think I’m not good enough? Am I disposable and this is the backup for when I die in combat? He didn’t take it well. He took it all out on Dust too, not cooperating in battle, trying to start fights in the castle, etc. He couldn’t outright kill him because Nightmare had given him strict orders not to, but Killer loves a loophole. If he roughed Dust up down to 1hp and something else happened to finish him off, technically he’d followed orders.
Dust just straight up didn’t want to be there. Nightmare just showing up and yoinking him had worked fine with Killer, but Dust had wanted to sit in his empty au and die, he had no intention of joining a team or doing work of any kind - good or bad. The only reason he didn’t just lie down and refuse the entire time was that he had to fight back against Killer, as much as he wanted to die he refused to give this ass the satisfaction or lvl. He didn’t intend to be any help out in the field either, but again, Killer was making sure he got fired at so he had to retaliate to stay alive.
Eventually it got bad enough that Nightmare had to pull Killer aside and demand answers. In the year or so of knowing him Killer had never willfully disobeyed orders before, so Nightmare needed to know what had gotten into him. He dispelled the replacement rumour right away, he still wasn’t quite softened up enough to be sappy about it but he made sure Killer understood what a good worker he was and that Nightmare had no intention of losing him. It didn’t help a lot, they still hated each other for other reasons, but it eased a little.
Killer still had pretty frequent dips into stage 3, except now he would go straight for Dust usually. Nightmare had tried to explain what he’d learned about it to Dust, but he didn’t really believe that it wasn’t just Killer deciding to try and kill him for funsies. He only accepted it after a particular episode where he attacked Nightmare instead, which Dust knew Killer wouldn’t try in his right mind.
After he came back to his senses he sought Dust out. The air around Killer was very different after a stage 3, sort of sombre and almost calm, so Dust let them sit together and Killer apologised for giving him such a hard time. They actually talked for the first time in months while Killer was still calm (or tolerable, as Dust describes it), and it didn’t magically fix everything but, things were a little better. They still fought and argued and bothered each other but it wasn’t as sharp, there was a lack of real murderous intent in it all, and sometimes after an episode they would talk a little bit. It was the best Nightmare was going to get for now, so he took it.
They were still completely incompetent about taking care of themselves though. Neither of them would eat unless prompted and Nightmare didn’t have good enough knowledge of mortals to know when that should be to stop them passing out from hunger on the job. Not to mention the stars were now a full team, and with the way Killer and Dust would sometimes rather target each other on the field he could do with more backup.
Horror was the first of the group to get a choice in joining. Nightmare had taken note of how much Dust didn’t want to be part of things, and while it was in his best interests in the long run given his situation, Horror’s au was still mostly intact - though a little in disrepair. Horror was also the first in the group to have a good (and ongoing) relationship with his brother, so Nightmare knew he couldn’t just pop in and steal him, he had to be a bit more diplomatic with this one and offer a deal.
He gave Horror some time to think on his proposal - he would set up regular deliveries of food to Horror’s au in exchange for him joining their team - and was quite surprised when Horror agreed, with some stipulations. Horror was equally surprised when Nightmare agreed so easily to his terms (that he didn’t want his brother to know what he’d be doing, and that he wouldn’t kill). A little down the line the terms were altered to add that he would also be left to visit his au every week or so.
Horror was not impressed meeting the other two. He didn’t need his power as judge anymore to sense the lvl coming off them both, and given who they were working for he was instantly distrustful of them both (the uh, brother situation did not help). He was also in a place that had an abundance of food for the first time in probably years, so he was doing a lot of going hog wild in the kitchen and then getting very sick as a result.
Dust didn’t particularly feel anything for him. This guy hated him, sure, but it wasn’t forward and slashy like with Killer, it was just quiet loathing which was fine. That’s how Dust felt about himself so, y’know, mood. He did kind of feel sorry for him though, not just because of the whole famine and everything, but also because he was watching this guy eat like his life depended on it and then get sick and undo it day after day. He was the one who suggested Horror getting his food in moderation to Nightmare, which did help but was an absolute ordeal to enforce. Y’know how some people get hangry? Imagine that but you haven’t had a proper meal in years and now these people give you tiny amounts of food and don’t let you eat more for hours. The hunger mood swings were a sight to behold, you would never have guessed in those days that Horror specified not wanting to kill.
When his ability to eat had evened out and he was in better shape, Horror made a point of apologising to Dust for being aggressive with him. Over time he’d kind of softened up on him from his initial impression, since he could see plainly how wracked with guilt Dust was over his situation. It was a little easier to imagine that whatever he’d done was truly out of desperation and not just for fun, as Horror had assumed at first sight.
They also both retained that classic sans laziness, so it was easy for them to share a space while saying and doing nothing. It made Horror the first person that Dust willingly spent time around in the castle (and vice versa since Horror was still largely suspicious of Nightmare and Killer - the deal seemed too good to be true and the stage 3 episodes didn’t help). As time went on, Horror kind of became Dust’s emotional support skeleton in a way. Dust had become quite averse to touch in his solitude and Horror very slowly brought him back out with casual gentle touches, until not only did he no longer freeze or stiffen at being grabbed but Dust would seek him out to flop next to on the couch. Horror claimed it was just returning the favour for helping with his eating situation, but really it was nice to have something resembling a friend here.
Killer, for his part, was going through This is My Replacement 2: Electric Boogaloo. Not to the same degree as with Dust, since Horror was quite a bit different, but Killer was still wary of this new addition. He didn’t really instigate anything though since, to be honest, Horror had the intimidation factor. He was like a foot taller than both of them, he had a cracked skull and completely different magic and it seemed like every time Killer saw him he was eating bread like a wolf eats a deer. So while he was going through his food moderating, Killer mostly just stayed quiet and kept his distance.
Horror had not softened on him like he had with Dust, since Killer didn’t openly show remorse. He still watched him with distrust, especially after seeing the way he scrapped with Dust for seemingly no reason other than for violence’s sake. Killer was still mostly targeting Dust in his stage 3s, but Horror had to be careful to stay out of his way since he was still working with much lower hp than the other two. What did start to convince him was seeing how similar Killer and Dust were after a stage 3 episode. Once Killer was slightly more composed (ie stopped crying), he became so tired and quiet and blunt about things he normally joked his way around. It was a little startling, but also started to bring Horror around to the idea that Killer might regret his actions too, just buried under several layers of whatever the hell is also wrong with him at any given time.
Killer and Horror only really started interacting after talking about Dust. Killer was asking how he got Dust to like him since he seems to hate everyone and everything else, Horror told him very pointedly it was because he wasn’t trying to kill Dust. Killer admitted he wasn’t trying to kill Dust, at least not anymore, he just wanted to fight for fun. It opened up a better channel of understanding, knowing that Killer did not actually have murderous intent behind his swings (stage 3 notwithstanding). It made it easier for Horror to occasionally get involved in the roughhousing which Killer delighted in, knowing that the other two knew how to hold back enough to keep him from dusting.
Speaking of stage 3, it was around this time that Killer and Dust made a very important deal. After a particularly rough episode with a little too close of a call, Killer showed up in Dust’s room and begged him shakily to make a promise - that if he ever got too out of control during one of his stages, Dust would kill him. He’d been told over and over by Nightmare that it was impossible for Killer to hurt him since he was immortal, but now there were more people around him where that wasn’t the case, and he wouldn’t be able to live with himself if he came out of a stage and found himself alone. Dust promised.
It’s also worth mentioning that, once they were all close enough to be on speaking terms, Horror started bullying the shit out of these two about eating. Now that Horror knew neither of them were going to kill him, he felt safe enough to pick them up by the scruff and set them at the table to say they weren’t leaving until they had at least a snack. He let them pick what they would eat - he wasn’t that cruel about it - but he had to see them eat at least 3 times a day or they would hear about it.
It was by no means perfect or regular, but after about half a year Nightmare finally had henchmen who ate food and worked together (mostly).
Now here’s the problem… I still haven’t really figured out how or why Cross joined the team. Like, obviously there’s some kind of point in the events of underverse where it splits off into an alternate timeline, but I haven’t really figured out where yet so. Leave that one with me just a little longer. Cross joins.
Nightmare really truly didn’t intend to take anyone else in. They were (mostly) getting along, they were pretty well matched to fight the stars, he had no need of more mortals.
…but he was also pretty soft at this point. Every one of them had taken a blow to his I’m immortal I’m an island I don’t get attached to others persona and he’d gotten pretty damn fond of them all. This was why when he felt the sheer weight of loneliness radiating off of Cross, he just couldn’t bring himself to leave him.
So Cross entered the castle.
He did not particularly intend to stay or make friends, he was trying to get his world back and nothing more. He even revealed a little down the line that he outright refused to kill, and was quite surprised to find that Nightmare was fine with that. At the start he was polite but not friendly with the others and mostly kept to himself.
Dust, as is often the case, did not really have an opinion. Another new guy, this one was self sufficient and didn’t bother him so he had no reason to get involved. He was content to be in the same room as Cross but didn’t start up any conversations.
Horror felt the need to speak to Cross, since Dust would happily stay silent for years and Killer was, well, Killer. Horror was somehow the closest thing to normal they had, so he was the one that made small talk. Mostly asking what Cross would like for meals and encouraging him to pick something he liked when he got the answer of “anything is fine”. As Cross settled in a bit more and actually opened up, they bonded over being the only two to enjoy food. Horror made a point of adding chocolate to the stock they kept in the kitchen and making tacos here and there for Cross.
Horror was also the first Cross kind of warmed to, mostly because he was the one devoid of lvl and Nightmare had mentioned he’d also said he wouldn’t kill. Learning a little about his au’s situation only softened Cross to him more, especially seeing that he still cared a lot for his brother and was trying to protect his home (even if Cross found it unthinkable that he lived away from it). It was through Horror that he also got accustomed to Dust, how being quiet and distant was kind of his default and that he also felt deeply haunted by the loss of his world. They weren’t exactly friends, but it was comfortable enough.
So now boss had taken in another new person, someone who takes orders like a soldier and fights with knives and ruthless precision and aims to be his righthand man, and Killer was ecstatic. By now he’d mostly put his fears of being disposable behind him, Nightmare had gotten a bit less subtle in showing how important they all were to him and Killer felt confident he wouldn’t be replaced. Which was a little bit funny, because the only guy he didn’t feel threatened by was the one who absolutely competed for his spot.
Cross needed to prove he was useful, he had to feel like he earned his keep and that all the training and suffering he’d done was for a reason. When Nightmare sent them on missions, Cross aimed to be the fastest and the most efficient and to report to Nightmare without question. Horror and Dust looking on would have expected Killer to see this 100% as a threat to his position as (self proclaimed) Nightmare’s second in command, and to go for this guy’s throat when nobody else was around.
But Killer was fascinated. Cross was completely different from any of them, bar Nightmare whose au is a whole different kettle of fish, so he had a certain element of unpredictability to him. Horror and Dust were both based on classic sans just like him, so to a certain degree he knew how they would feel about most things and what they might say, the only differences being in what they had experienced through their own timelines. Cross was based on a swap sans and his au had taken wild twists and turns away from usual events, so Killer had to learn everything about him by poking and prodding for answers or observing from a distance, much like back when it was just him and Nightmare. Cross was something new to be studied and Killer loved taking notes.
Cross did not see this as friendly. He was competing with Killer for approval, not realising Killer was playing their contest like a game. When he saw Cross training he would jump in to spar for fun, but Cross saw his rival trying to get a jump on him and take him out of the running. When Killer would hang around and pester Cross in their off time with questions, it didn’t seem like someone taking interest, it seemed like someone being nosy and looking for weaknesses to exploit. When Horror mentioned that Killer was being surprisingly contained and friendly, Cross really thought he was fucking with him.
The first time Cross was willing to even consider this was the case was when his locket came loose on the field and Killer ran back to find it, since one of the notes he’d taken was how the locket wasn’t something Cross would play about (the same as Horror with food). It didn’t make sense for someone who was seriously competing to have him kicked out to just hand his necklace back, no ransoms or attempts to crush it to upset him, just some vague remark about “owing him one” and then right back to Nightmare for orders.
Cross had to give him something of a chance after that, Horror helped a lot by telling him “he doesn’t want to hurt you, he just doesn’t know how to be normal”. It was mostly a playful jab at Killer, but reframing their interactions changed it significantly for Cross. Now they were sparring playfully and having friendly competition on jobs. He wasn’t as put off when Killer went into stage 3 because he knew he could match him in combat and the others were always on hand to help restrain or distract him. Cross also took note of how Killer calmed down a lot for physical touch, not unlike how Dust had warmed up to Horror. It went a long way into not only making him a little less combative for attention every day, but it seemed to put longer stretches between his episodes (which Cross had also started tracking so they wouldn’t be caught out by them as much).
For his part, Killer has disobeyed instructions in the past to benefit Cross, usually ignoring the task to help him if he’s hurt. He’s also given Nightmare nudges towards praising him because he’s noted that that’s what Cross needs in the same way he needs touch (not that Nightmare doesn’t praise them normally, but when Cross is going through it and needs something). He also doesn’t particularly like chocolate but has made a point of not admitting this to Horror so he can give his chocolate to Cross.
(It’s also worth noting that Cross is the only one, besides Nightmare, that has been to Horror’s au. He offered to help out during the food delivery and got to meet Horror’s Papyrus (who he is a little intimidated by but ultimately friendly with, even though it��s a little weird since he’s a good bit different from his own Papyrus). Dust and Killer can’t really visit for a few reasons, mostly because everyone will notice their lvl immediately and know what they’ve done. Dust especially doesn’t know how he would react to having a Papyrus in front of him again and doesn’t want to put Horror's family at risk to find out. Whenever he visits, his Papyrus asks about Cross now and sometimes tries to make tacos for him (key word tries, he’s still a Papyrus after all). He may have joked that seeing Cross sometimes is “like having another brother but younger and less lazy” and when Horror told him this Cross may or may not have cried.)
And that’s where we are now!
They’re a very strange group who’ve been through some inexplicable events and have all changed each other in one way or another. And whether or not it can be admitted, they are a family c:
Now onto how Nightmare was made emotionally open by each of them!! In this essay I will no just kidding could you imagine this is already like 7 pages long
If you got to the end of this post please drink some water and get yourself a snack
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i’ve been rereading your not [] series and WOWOWOWOWOW i love it sm. the writing? mwah chefs kiss 🤌🏽 the soul crushing loneliness is felt throughout the whole series and as the reader i can really feel every single emotion y/n goes through while reading it’s amazing. i’m excited for part three to see how it all goes down most importantly y/n’s reaction. i can only imagine the intense anger they’ll probably have after getting taken back to the manor. they’ll be angry cuz of the kidnapping thing but also it took them going missing for their family to acknowledge them. that’s a whole different type of anger and frustration. trying practically all your life to get your family’s attention, to them notice your there, all for it to be vain but the moment you’re gone and don’t exist, just like they’ve been treating your whole life, suddenly they notice. they felt guilty after realizing the damage they’ve done to you and just NOW they want to fix even though you’ll probably be carrying the trauma of the neglect for life so what’s the point of trying to fix it now? especially at this big age? the anger y/n must feel at this is insane. there’s also the fact that if y/n *does* want to give in to the sudden affection there’s that fear they’ll just leave again. they get kidnapped, imprison in what was their once home with high security, are being bomb with a bunch of love from their family they’ve never received before and then suddenly it’s gone, all their left with is just their freedom being taken away. y/n most likely feels intense anger, maybe even hatred, at their current actions but also fear of their future ones. it’s the perfect soup of angst and mannnn i’m eating it up.
sorry for the ramble i just wanted to let out my thoughts on your series but to sum it up i LOOVE your series and i’m patiently waiting for your next chapter to continue to see what of y/n’s fate becomes 🫶🏽
I'm so glad you're enjoying the series!!! And oh my god I love your interpretation as well!!!
As I've kind of stated/hinted at through various posts (I promise a masterlist will be made soon because there is a lot of things now that are piling up-), I don't really tend for Y/n in the "Not [ ]" series to get kidnapped just yet (not in part 3 anyways), but I think we all know that it's bound to happen considering things. And it will!
Honestly, I think a lot of people are kind of overestimating how 'loud' Y/n's anger, frustration, hurt, and pain will be in part 3, and it does make me a little worried about the reception of it. However, depending on one's interpretation, what the reader does instead can make the angst that much heavier. Because, well. They don't get that 'relief' that can sometimes come with shouting out your problems to the world- especially to the person that caused you such pain for such a long time, as it is also kind of acts like an unmistakable "hey!!! i'm fucked up and it's all your fault!!! i'll never forgive you for this and want nothing to do with you!!!" message. Though it is a mix within itself.
However, you are right, honestly!
Y/n in the start of the "Not [ ]" series is upset enough. Not only towards the family, but all the time they feel like they've wasted to try and just have a chance to just... get something they never had. All they wanted was a relationship, some kind of connection with anyone in the family besides Alfred, anything. Which is also mentioned in "Not Tonight" as there is that repeating theme/mention of Y/n doing too much but receiving so little, if not, nothing at all, for their efforts.
So just knowing that — as you've said — it basically took them essentially 'giving up' and being gone for months, for the Batfam to notice them? To try and even attempt to give not even half of what the reader had tried to before? Yet was rejected at every twist and turn? Up until this point?
Yeah, no. Y/n is plenty pissed, and incredibly hurt. Among other things as it's just... too little too late. Way too late.
Yet why I also say that I feel as if others overestimate how Y/n is going to express their anger, and how loud about it they're going to be, is because... well- this is a small kind of character spoiler, I guess, but they feel so detached from the family that the very thought of the Batfam even looking for them, is unfathomable. They don't realize at first how the Batfam is looking for them (despite the obvious signs), because it's never happened before, not even on accident.
They never got saved when they got into fights. They never got help when shit got tough. They were never heard, seen or even acknowledged in the house besides Alfred unless they initiated the 'conversation'. Why would they think that anyone who's acted to them like that, and wouldn't even let them exist in their space for a few minutes, go out searching for them? To put in even the smallest effort towards finding them — and because they were worried for Y/n's health no less — and not because they were the absolute last resort? They wouldn't. They don't.
It's a part of why part 3 goes the way it does, but again-its a part. The other pieces make it bad as well. Though that's all the spoilers I'm willing to give on that, which will go more indepth in part 3 itself (hopefully).
Basically, Y/n is a mess. Everyone is in a way, and that's what makes everything go to hell.
Y/n is angry, yes, but it starts quiet before it gets loud. Along with everything else.
So if and when Y/n does get kidnapped... hm.
I did say in a previous ask that depending on how it goes that Y/n would fight back if they're able to and such depending on how the kidnapping itself goes. And though I won't say much on Y/n's reaction in case it does go into future parts if more than 4 are made, I will say that you're right to assume that Y/n is incredibly pissed. You're also right on the whole idea with them being worried about the family basically neglecting them all over again, when everything is said and done. And that's great!
It's a mix. A whole push-and-pull deal where, yeah, even if more shit hits the fan- their own trauma will, in a way, protect them as well as make their life more miserable than it already is. Y/n'll probably never be able to naturally get close with the Batfam, not without 'help' anyway.
But these are yanderes. Their definition of 'help' is a little... twisted.
Though, yeah! And don't worry about rambling- I clearly do the same seeing as I think this whole post is almost just as long as what you wrote. So it's fine! If anything I really did enjoy reading it! Seeing all these different interpretations, and thoughts about the series and other things is incredibly interesting and I love it a lot! Especially with Part 3 on the rise.
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About a month ago, I found copies of Morgoth's Ring and The War of the Jewels in a local used bookstore after many years of looking for used editions, and immediately snatched them up to go with the copy of Peoples of Middle-earth and the LOTR drafts I've had for years.
I don't have The Fall of Gondolin, but even so, I was kind of fascinated by the different variants of the story Tolkien was coming up with until very late in his life. Christopher Tolkien could pretty authoritatively date some of the revisions to the 70s based on the typewriter his father was using, and iirc it was the last First Age material (JRR) Tolkien worked on, and he seemed to really think he could get it done after not touching it for 20 years.
But between the different texts that I do have, there are so many different versions and ideas for the Maeglin backstory that it's pretty wild.
Eöl was captured by Morgoth at some point and his skills made him useful enough in Angband that he got some limited privileges among the slaves and prisoners there, and also he learned some of his craftmanship because he was there. He either escaped because of this or """escaped""" (unconsciously a tool of Morgoth still). JRRT really liked this idea on a narrative level but rejected it for being too similar to Maeglin's own story.
Eöl was a Sindarin relative of Thingol's but had always been a hater in general, and left Doriath out of some mixture of personal antagonism and not wanting to be limited by the Girdle of Melian. His incredible craftmanship had nothing to do with Angband; he advanced his skills through his friendship with the dwarves.
Or maybe he was never one of the people of Doriath, actually, but akin in a looser sense of the broader Sindarin kinship group. He was, incidentally, wrong about the Noldor stealing Sindarin lands; the Sindar weren't occupying those particular lands in the first place.
Eöl was actually a Noldo who refused the final step of the journey and trapped/misled a young Aredhel before the Noldor ever even got to the Undying Lands (thus denying her the sight of the Two Trees). The Valinorean Noldor look down on him for being personally a loser, but there's no racial subtext to it.
Separately from any of this, Tolkien keeps confusing the exact generations that the Nolofinweans and Fëanorians belong to, so there's a draft where Aredhel is accidentally moved up a generation and Eöl regards Curufin and Celegorm as his shitty nephews.
JRRT wrote a whole passage about Curufin's motives in his interactions with Eöl, what he knew or guessed at what point about just who Eöl's mysterious wife was, and the importance of showing the better side of Curufin's character (given how awful he usually is, esp in Beren and Lúthien's story) in his relationship to Aredhel and his distaste for Eöl, even if he remains arrogant. Although Curufin unfortunately doesn't choose murder on that specific occasion, his annoyance with Eöl does cause significant delay that buys some time for Aredhel and Maeglin's escape.
There's more, but those are things I found interesting!
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