#someone said the love louis went to paris with was love for claudia

[professional-girlkisser]

you have grown warm again, filled with the love which you first came to paris with.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hi Nalyra. I would love to hear your thoughts about Nickistat because Virginia is very biased against the relationship and often romanticizes Loustat and ignores all the clues that Nicki was Lestat's first and deepest love. Lestat might have fell deeply for Louis, but he would never have left Nicki if Nicki and Gabrielle didn't tell him to. I just don't understand how anyone can diminish Nickistat and say Nicki didn't love him because if Lestat had to pick between the lover that wanted them to struggle because of his own depression and the lover that literally tried to kill him, I'm opting for the first. I honestly believe that Nickistat would still be together and Lestat would have never paid Louis a second glance if Nicki never died. If Nicki never unalived himself, I don't think anyone could deny that if Nicki showed up during Loustat's "raccoon era", Lestat would not have thought twice about leaving Louis to be with Nicki. Lestat would have been out of there so quickly and I wouldn't have blamed him. It's unfortunate that the depression got the most of Nicki because they had the potential to be on a far grander and happier scale than Loustat. Louis would have been the Antoinette to Lestat had Nicki lived.

My brother in Christopher.

Louis would have been the Antoinette? Lestat would not have thought twice about leaving Louis?

Nonny. Dear.

So totally apart from the fact that I also think Antoinette was a bit different than meets the eye right now...

You said that "you would opt for the first" and I think that's the crux of the matter. You would, and that's okay. However, lets take a look at some facts.

Louis did not try to kill Lestat, that was Claudia

Nicolas depression started way before his relationship with Lestat

Nicki isn't someone who comes into the relationship with Lestat "untainted". He's already rebelled. Already went against his father's wishes, already sold his watch when his father smashed his violin. Gabrielle notes that "the worst part is that he plays rather well", because he is too old make it as a career.

Nicolas must have been told that and must be aware of that, because he literally builds that first connection with Lestat by using the quite self-aware admission that he, too, is "impossible".

Nicolas is sarcastic when he tells Lestat of Paris: "But in rapid, sometimes sarcastic speech[...]"

He's also not too fond of his own experiences: "I'll tell you, " he said finally, "it all sounds a hell of a lot better in this room than it really is. "

Right after this, there is this note from Lestat: "I was beginning to understand why he was so sarcastic arid cynical.

Sarcastic. Arid. Cynical.

These are Lestat's first impressions of Nicolas. He also gives us what drew him nonetheless: "But no matter how deadening was this sarcasm of his, a great energy poured out of him, an irrepressible passion. And this drew me to him. I think I loved him."

This passion drew Lestat. But he recognized the darkness within Nicolas even then.

Nicolas was doomed from the start. He calls the violin the "Devil's Instrument".

He literally tells Lestat that he thinks Paris a "miserable hellhole" in their first conversation.

As others, Nicolas is drawn to Lestat's light though (as it is called in the books), and there is this... let's call it helpless love that develops. They are young, they have common ground, and they click. First love.

I absolutely believe that the love they felt was real, and that they were infatuated, and loved each other very much.

But Nicolas never wanted to go back to the "hellhole". When he later tells Lestat that he wanted them to "go down", to starve on the streets, then that calls right back to that very first conversation. It is right there, from the beginning.

"I make music and it makes me happy, " he said. "What is blessed or good about that? " I waved it away as I always did his cynicism now.

Lestat... waves the darkness away, but he perceives it.

Nicolas believes that "sin always feels good". He sees what they have as a sin. And he revels in it.

"Lestat, we're partners in sin, " he said, smiling finally.

When they talk about running away, Lestat is mightily excited... but not excited enough to miss the warning signs: "All his cynicism had vanished, even though he did throw in the word "spite " every ten words or so."

Nicolas does not run away to Paris for a new start. He does it to spite his father.

"All a misunderstanding, my love, " he said. Acid on the tongue. The blood sweat had broken out again, and his eyes glistened as if they were wet. "It was to hurt others, don't you see, the violin playing, to anger them, to secure for me an island where they could not rule. They would watch my ruin, unable to do anything about it. " I didn't answer. I wanted him to go on. "And when we decided to go to Paris, I thought we would starve in Paris, that we would go down and down and down. It was what I wanted, rather than what they wanted, that I, the favored son, should rise for them. I thought we would go down! We were supposed to go down. " "Oh, Nicki... " I whispered.

Oh, Nicki, indeed.

Lestat loved Nicki.

Despite the darkness. Maybe because of it. He certainly was aware of it. Just as he is aware of the darkness in Louis later.

But...

Nicolas... wasn't love at first sight for Lestat. Gabrielle had to tell him to go and make a friend of him, to which Lestat's first reaction was: "Why the hell should I do that?"

"But why don't you go down to the town and make a friend of him? " she asked. "Why the hell should I do that? " I asked. "Lestat, really. Your brothers will hate it. And the old merchant will be beside himself with joy. His son and the Marquis's son. " "Those aren't good enough reasons." "He's been to Paris, " she said. She watched me for a long moment. Then she went back to her book, brushing her hair now and then lazily. I watched her reading, hating it. I wanted to ask her how she was, if her cough was very bad that day. But I couldn't broach the subject to her. "Go on down and talk to him, Lestat, " she said, without another glance at me.

Now, I am not trying to diminish Nickistat here.

It's beautiful, and tragic. I love their relationship, because of all the facets it has.

But it was doomed from the start.

If Nicki had survived, then this would have led to catastrophe, not relief. Nicki showing up through the "racoon era"... I mean, you are aware that Lestat stayed with Louis intentionally and voluntarily. (And that Louis did the same, something that somehow tends to be overlooked. They both could have left, could have moved out. But they didn't.) Lestat did not want to leave Louis, and Louis did not want to leave Lestat, despite everything. It is that simple.

If Nicolas would have showed up his darkness would have been festering for decades/centuries. He was already spiraling in Paris, and definitely so after turning, he would have been mad by then.

A mad vampire, hell-bent on relief for his pain, trapped in the darkness, fueled by twisted love.

If Nicolas would have showed up then, Louis would have been in danger, and Lestat would have been forced to kill him, eventually.

And Lestat always protects Louis.

Let's finish with Lestat's own words on Louis, and Nicolas:

Shortly after reaching the colony, I fell fatally in love with Louis, a young dark-haired bourgeois planter, graceful of speech and fastidious of manner, who seemed in his cynicism and self destructiveness the very twin of Nicolas. He had Nicki's grim intensity, his rebelliousness, his tortured capacity to believe and not to believe, and finally to despair. Yet Louis gained a hold over me far more powerful than Nicolas had ever had. Even in his cruelest moments, Louis touched the tenderness in me, seducing me with his staggering dependence, his infatuation with my every gesture and every spoken word. And his naiveté conquered me always, his strange bourgeois faith that God was still God even if he turned his back on us, that damnation and salvation established the boundaries of a small and hopeless world. Louis was a sufferer, a thing that loved mortals even more than I did. And I wonder sometimes if I didn't look to Louis to punish me for what had happened to Nicki, if I didn't create Louis to be my conscience and to mete out year in and year out the penance I felt I deserved. But I loved him, plain and simple.

I know the fandom jokes often about how stupid or shallow Lestat is, but he actually is quite aware. He reflects. He sees the parallels, and his own faults in the game. He owns up to his mistakes, too.

At the end of Blood Communion there is this little conversation, between him and Louis (and a nice little nod towards memory):

“Yes, Nicolas,” I answered. “Seemed all the little victories of life and life after death were so hard for him, happiness was so hard for him...joy was an agony I think, but I don’t want to think of it now.” “Some of us are infinitely better at being miserable than happy,” he said gently. “We’re good at it, and proud of it, and we get better and better at it, and we simply don’t know what it means to be happy.” I nodded. My thoughts were as thick and confused as the dancers, the music. But the dancers and the music were beautiful. My thoughts were not. I could not recall ever having spoken of Nicolas to Louis, never ever even mentioning Nicolas’s name. But then I do not remember everything, as I once thought I did. There is something in us, even us, that will not allow for that, something that pushes the memory of suffering that is unbearable slowly away. “I have no gift for being miserable,” I said. “I know,” he said. He laughed. Such a human face. Such a lovely face. There must surely have been twice as many blood drinkers now in this ballroom as there had ever been, and I sensed that I had ought to stop having such a marvelous time and return to greeting newcomers as the Prince should. But not before holding Louis for a moment, and then kissing him and telling him low in French that I loved him and always had.

This is where Anne ended the books.

With their dance, and Lestat telling Louis he loves him and always had. With the awareness that for Nicolas joy was agony. And Louis understanding. Because Louis has been there.

Other than Nicolas though... Louis manages to overcome his darkness. Eventually. He knows. He sees. He accepts. And he does not shy away from Lestat's "light".

And that is why, at the end, it is Louis, for Lestat.

_______

So, "biased" or not, I'm not sure I see it very differently to V?

Nicolas was doomed from the start, and so was their relationship.

Unfortunately.

Also, last but not least, if I may: "unalive"? You mean killed himself. Committed suicide. This isn't TikTok. Please use the proper words. Self-censorship is the way to preemptively accepting censorship. Thank you.

[confirmeddead]

Here are my ramblings regarding the Interview With The Vampire Season 2 finale

This will be broken down into 3 sections:

Overall episode plot thoughts, character thoughts, and season 3 setup.

The way the episode was set up was fantastic. I went into it thinking I’d know what to expect. Paris Louis destroying the coven, Daniel uncovering Armand’s plotting, Loustat reunion.

I couldn’t be happier with how it all unfolded. The parallels with Louis and Paul, the fight between him and Santiago, Lestat in Magnus’ tower. I was absolutely enthralled with everything in Paris- it was so exciting.

When I tell you my palms were clammy when we go back to Dubai? I was a little confused (due to my excitement), did Daniel bring up those questions or were those planted by the Talamasca? I know the Talamasca gave him the real script but I was hoping Daniel did the extra legwork. This actually made me very excited for the Talamasca show (good job, AMC and IWTV writers) because of Rashid, RJ, and freaking Sam!

I really want to know what happened after Louis left Dubai with Armand and Daniel, but I’ll save those thoughts for later.

The NOLA reunion was everything I could have hoped for. I audibly laughed at Louis’ driver because it reminded me of my NOLA trip in 2023- the people of New Orleans are so charismatic and talkative! And the night tour? I didn’t attend one but I thought it was adorable seeing Louis attend one.

The actual Lestat/Louis reunion was fantastic. The young vampire taking him rats like in the book? Siri? Sam’s acting? I was taken aback with how different Lestat was and I think that was a peek at the “real” Lestat. A little more subtle with his movements, still charming, and brutally honest. This was the only part in the episode that made me cry, specifically when they talked about Claudia. Grief wasn’t something I had to face ‘til last year so I found my brain comparing the two.

The rest of the episode is a blur and I could probably make a whole post regarding that ending. I’m really curious what other DM fans thought… but I’ll say this one thing:

Louis saying Armand turned Daniel out of spite was a punch to the stomach. I actually yelled “Out of spite??” At my tv. Louis’ words, yes, but that paired with Daniel’s “asshole” comments on Armand made me collapse. I need to know more… and am praying those are just Louis’ words, nothing more, and there’s a lot more to the story.

Characters-

Louis: Oh Louis! My gosh, I was hurting for him real bad. Like I said, the Paul correlations were aplenty. The mad ramblings in the mausoleum, the actual acting on Jacob’s part (makes me wonder if he went back to 1x01 and copied Paul), the imaginings. I love how the episode ended with Louis calling for all those vampires to come to him because I totally (think I) know where the writers are going. Lestat’s gonna have that to have that performance ready earlier than expected!

Lestat: Ugh, I could not get enough of him this episode. Definitely Sam’s best episode (for me). The facial acting in Magnus’ tower, Louis pointing out the shackles, etc. Can’t wait for that to be revisited in season 3 both in the 18th century and 40s Paris. Again I really thought Sam’s acting in NOLA was a standout. The subtle changes to his character were so in my face (in the best way). Can’t wait for next season!

Armand: So… lot’s of thoughts. It was very interesting that they changed it that he had intentions of killing Louis. Does it make sense? Technically speaking, yes. I understand the reasoning that he wasn’t going to throw away a coven for someone whose heart was with another. All that being said… how does the viewer, who is already villainizing Armand, come out of this just not hating him completely? Killing his daughter and fledgling AND wanting to kill him?

Look, I know we the book readers have Anne’s writing telling us how she felt- she never saw these vampires as villains. I mean everyone says it, but it does kind of hurt seeing not one but two storylines regarding Armand changed so drastically. But I’ll let the tale seduce me, sorry. (Really, I will!)

Armand wanted and saved Louis out of selfish reasons. Armand turned Daniel out of love. Both changed, from our perspective. But the turning of Daniel is still up in the air, all we have is Louis’ words “out of spite”- oof.

Daniel: Like I said before in the plot analysis, I’m really hoping Daniel did a lot of the heavy lifting when it came to Armand’s plotting because he’s a Pulitzer Prize winner! Anyway, the ending… what to say?

I’ll admit it- I was wrong. So many people guessed it would happen but I didn’t think it made any sense. And can I say it? It didn’t make any sense. Technically speaking, the reveal was fantastic! But otherwise I just can’t help but think it was all a bit too much. “Out of spite” keeps ringing in my head in the worst way. I know they were Louis’ words, I know, but if they change this one thing about Armand I might scream. I want to let the tale seduce me but with them having changed what happened in Paris, it scares me to think of what they might have changed with Armand and Daniel.

So let me take the “tale seducing” out of here for a second, please.

Armand, after 500 years, turning someone out of spite is character assassination. I’m sorry!!! And you know what? Lemme call bullshit. I think he turned him because he really finds him fascinating now and, I don’t know, was seeing his own life flash before him and wanted someone to call his own. And do we think Armand would leave his only fledgling alone? Daniel was thriving! He’s confident, he’s happy, he’s strong! If Daniel resented him for it, truly, he’d be miserable- but he isn’t. And I’ve read a few takes regarding this and I think it can make a lot of sense if we really look at who Armand is as a person.

And since I’m always wrong and hope the writers prove me otherwise, I don’t think the Chase is gonna happen- in the 70s/80s or post-Dubai. I think it’ll be changed to Armand “chasing” Daniel’s love.

I just really need something more that will tell me this is all gonna be okay akksdjjd

Others: Superb acting by Ben Daniels my gosh! Rashid totally being body-swapped or working for the Talamasca made me so happy- I’ve loved Bally this season and hope to see him again. Them making Sam’s character a DJ was so funny- will he be performing with Lestat? His opener? LMAO

Season 3 setup-

I’m both excited and a little disappointed for their setups for season 3. Louis calling the vampires to him was badass and I think will lead Lestat to break out of his NOLA “stupor” and burst onto the music scene and draw everyone to him instead.

With Louis’ words to Daniel regarding a second book, I would say I don’t think Daniel would take his advice and not make a second book but that’s not who Daniel is. I think he’ll hear that and say yes to Lestat and interview him for his book.

So who did they leave out in regards to a season 3 setup? Armand. Yes, we know he turned Daniel but we didn’t even see him? Hear from him? Anything? Maybe it’s asking too much but it bothered me that they left it as “he turned Daniel out of spite” and that’s it.

[murfpersonalblog]

IWTV S2 - Exclusive Special Preview Breakdown

I literally just got home and am speedrunning frame by frame through ANOTHER huge trailer that dropped while IRL had me in a chokehold today--AMC, y'all are tryna put me in the hospital, ISTG! We're EATING SO WELL in the fandom!

That's the SECOND MOFO to shoulder-check my daughter--DEATH to all of them!

past!Lesmand in Les Innocents I assume.

This is spiiiiiiiiiicy, cuz it directly links up with what they show later about Claudia's diaries:

I BET! You choke-slammed me like my a-hole father-uncle-brother did, and refused to toss his desanguinated husk in the incinerator with his 9-fingered sidepiece! DISHONOUR!

DRAG HIM, Claudia!

(Why even bother touching it, ew.) I love how JA's voice over is explaining how Lou & Claud have experienced true horror, and they show some dried out skeleton from Eastern Europe, knowing good & well some corpse is LIGHT, compared to the mess they've been through.

this is FERAL.

HD footage of the infamous too-effing-dark-and-blurry Loustat kiss. At long last.

omg Lestat is a TROLLLLLLLLLLLL 😅

I'm getting the impression that there's barely a scene WITHOUT Lestat haunting Louis, even when his new boo's right there! Poor Armand never stood a chance. U_U

Assad said "Armand cannot help but feel Lestat's presence--" you mean like LITERALLY? With the Mind Gift? So Armand KNOWS Louis is hallucinating Lestat the whole time!? 😱

DANG, Louis needs Lestat as a scapegoat to blame when things go wrong, but he also needs Lestat to be his guilty conscious helping him make the "right" decisions.

What's WILD is that SamStat's so dang good at being this p.o.s. we (via Louis' POV) are supposed to hate--but this isn't even Lestat! It's a literal figment of Louis' traumatized imagination, even moreso than the descriptions Louis gave to Daniel in 1973. It is so much clearer here WHY Louis went off on Lestat in SanFran, cuz he'd been dealing with a fake Lestat for possibly decades by then, driving him nuts, that Louis then raged against in the first interview. I really like that AMC is showing us this--it hits so much better than just getting a couple lines in the book, and next to zero references in the movie.

TELL IT, JACOB! Y'all know those friends/family that just LOVE a bad boy--someone toxic AF that no one in their right mind would seriously consider, cuz they're addicted to the high that DRAMA gives them. They don't feel like they're really living/loving if everything's not a freaking rollercoaster. Which is why REBOUNDS are often a bad idea! They never process their damage before jumping to the next inevitable disaster--Louis LITERALLY carrying his past baggage with him. U_U

"Die, Claudia." 😒

LOUMAND'S BEDROOM AT LONG LAST! 😭 It's so cool! (My nerdy The Sims gamer heart is having palpitations; it's nothing like I expected. ❤️ MORE jail/cage bars.)

Not a shocker--I bet these are the ones about Paris (neatly sliced out), not the ones about Bruce (torn out). The agreement part is interesting though, cuz Louis has to ask Armand's permission to see his daughter's diaries, which means Armand's the one keeping them away--the question is WHY? Cuz we know Louis' memorized her diaries. So I'm wondering if it's cuz Daniel's been poking so many holes that Louis' starting to doubt his memories about what happened, and needs to see them for verification? OR, Lou has no memories of what happened and what was on those pages, and Armand's like "We REMOVE the Damage So We FORGET The Damage."

Chile, you been knew Louis' cuckoo bananas--the REAL mystery is Armand.

Yeah, we been knew Ben Daniels was gonna out-Lestat Lestat, the man's oozing Charisma Uniqueness Nerve and Talent.

Meanwhile Louis looks beyond disgusted.

RIP to all the Meat being butchered on stage.

"Dare I say it's a much gorier season." PERFECT. I really wanna see them BE VAMPS, not just the Theatre. LFG! ^0^

[madly-empirical]

Surprises from reading IWTV for the first time I knew the TV show was a reinvention/reinterpretation from the books, but just coming off of re-watching the movie there were some things that I was surprised to find out: - Louis helps Lestat kill someone before he's turned him into a vampire (???) - Louis kills Lestat's father but makes him forgive him first without knowing the full story (it's like a mercy killing because the old man is dying so that "merciful death" nickname is a whole thing isn't it) - Louis kills a priest for being understandably annoyed when someone confesses to have been killing for a hundred years (did you think he wouldn't be offended be serious louis) - Louis says killing people was not a moral, but an aesthetic choice (very surprised, I thought the killing people was the main point of conflict but no?)

- There's a subplot with another wealthy slave-owning family where Louis tries to stop Lestat from killing a young man and is involved with his sister named Babette when he fails (it doesn't go well for her...) - Louis knows that Lestat wanted to be priest but was taken out of school by his father - Lestat calls books "mortal nonsense" (lol) - Louis' late brother who had religious visions also had yellow hair so parallels - Louis is weird about money (he's spending all my money, but he never has trouble getting his own, I have to manage everything, I keep him dependent on me, etc., etc.) - Lestat massacres the slaves on his way out, and Louis appears to join him (Very hard to tell for sure) - Louis drags nearly everything about Lestat except for his physical appearance - Lestat falls asleep at the opera (they're long Louis!) - Lestat loves Macbeth and will shout lines from the play at passersby on the way home (unfortunately that's the love of your life) - Claudia is colder and creepier in the book (it's interesting that she never plays music after Lestat is gone...) - Lestat threatens to kill Claudia all the time behind her back and at least once to her face - Louis notices that Lestat is afraid when Claudia asks questions about vampires stuff - Lestat, in a clear fib, tells them there's no other vampires besides them - Claudia tells Louis that she's going to kill Lestat and he's in the room where it all goes down - Claudia gots the hubris ("Do you think I will have my power and his when I take him?") - She is also super convinced that Lestat is dead the second time, but girl why? - Claudia and Louis have troubles before Armand shows up stemming from the murder of Lestat (she did tell you what she was going to do!) - Louis pretends to a vampire hunter to explain some weird stuff in Eastern Europe where they find mindless vampires (like some else said, why would you bring your 5 year old daughter to the vampire hunt??) - When they can't find any other vampires like them, Louis is like I might have believed that we were the only ones if Lestat was the kind of person to have been some kind of serious sorcerer — but he clearly ain't (lol) - Louis is totally head-over-heels ignoring all red flags and ready to go as soon as Armand shows up (even after Armand is like killing vampires is exciting that's why it's forbidden and btw I used my powers to influence you to make Madeline a vampire...) - Madeline is a dollmaker and makes elegant miniature furniture for Claudia so she lives like a fairy queen - Armand keeps going on and on about a tower and how a healthy vampire would survive falling off it (-_-) - Armand is like yes, mindless vampire are called revenants and it's like how do you know that but no one asks - Lestat is in Paris when Claudia is killed, clearly tricked and confused he thinks he can take Louis home with him (He is also afraid of Armand. Insane that there's like ten years between the publication of IWTV and TVL, it's so clear that something went down between the two of them but there's zero hints in IWTV on what it was) - Lestat is frantic and weepy when Louis sees him in his grey gardens area. Louis thinks he is dying the way vampires die according to Armand, he can no longer endure immortal life (maybe it was the being murdered more than once that got to him Louis? Just maybe that might have had some effect...) Overall, I found book!Louis infuriating, hypocritical, complicit (NOT passive) and kind of self-involved. Impossible to tell what it felt like to read it for the first time without having knowledge from later books. Reading TVL makes me more sympathetic towards book!Louis because there's just so much he doesn't and couldn't know — especially about Armand and his hypno-powers. Obviously, it's very likely that he was doing a similar thing to Louis to what he tried to do to Lestat. Also, Lestat's version of himself sounds exhausting. He wants to go out every night!!

[devourcr]

thoughts regarding the coven under les innocents & lestat / nicolas

CLAIRE, BE CAREFUL. don't think about reading until after the episode. also ily.

( everyone else too if you don't want show spoilers or if you don't want to hear me rant on about book canon vs show canon vs my personal headcanons all surrounding the latest episode. )

so prior to the season, i was sure that armand's version of events was going to be essentially "armand's fanfiction" about lestat / paris. in book canon, lestat gives us the story first, but here, armand gets the first shot and there's no good reason for him to be honest about it. ( the fact that we have an interview from assad where he hints at armand lying to paint himself in a better light is honestly revealing on its own )

armand is going to paint lestat in the worst way possible because he's still salty af about him rejecting him. armand begs and begs lestat to take him with him, to love him. i don't see a version where armand is honest about that to louis or honest about it to daniel unless forced to bc the truth is already out. the real story makes him look weak and it makes him look cruel ( because he is fucking cruel ).

from a visual standpoint, it looks like someone telling a tale of romance when lestat and armand have their moments together. their confessions of love. all of that feels like what armand would have wanted the most. it's a fantasy and he's selling it. even the music in the bg... it's a romantic fantasy.

i see what armand did as simplifying the story and taking huge liberties with what actually happened. why mention what actually happened with lestat, gabrielle (that she even exists), or even the true tragedy of nicki? that doesn't fit his narrative.

i don't think armand stopped believing in the coven prior to lestat. i will always say that i think that for armand to give up the children of satan's values, he had to unpack a hell of a lot of his own trauma and stare too much into the past for his own liking. for the children of satan to be wrong about their beliefs, it means that their attack in venice was senseless. it means what happened to him, what happened to the boys that died, was wrong and that there was another way to live. i think there were always holes in his beliefs, but it was easy to believe in ritual, it was routine, it made sense. (i'll probably write headcanons about that later, rather than ranting more about it here)

i feel like there's some parallel with the louis/armand storyline throughout the episode. like there was something to be said about louis & claudia lying about their "maker" throwing himself into the fire and armand mentioning that the coven threw themselves into the fire. i don't know if the show will say otherwise ( i trust it will eventually ) but i absolutely maintain that armand killed most of his original coven, aside from the survivors who joined the theatre. we get kind of a common thread of "it looks better when they kill themselves," kind of thing.

i think armand tried to make himself seem like more of an active participant along with lestat in what the theatre became. i think he willfully reduced nicki's role and also wasn't going to talk about what he'd done to him within the theatre. or that it was lestat who pushed him to go to the theatre bc he refused to let him come with him.

i will stand by the fact that armand said he'd rather go into the fire than go to the theatre initially.

armand's not going to say lestat beat the shit out of him for biting him, that lestat felt enough sympathy to take him back to the tower, only to have armand beg him to take him with him. also, he's not going to explain the shit they did to nicki when he did go back to the theatre.

do i think the show's changing the book canon? no, not to that extreme. do i think armand is lying? absolutely. s2 is still very much within the boundaries of iwtv and i don't think we're going to get much in the way of what really went down until s3. i'm pretty confident that we'll get lestat's version of events, and frankly, it needs to be concise in s2 or else it'll feel repetitive when we get there.

[cbrownjc]

Hola! Writing from Sweden! I love spoilers so no problem from me.

But why would Louis burning/being killed wake Lestat up?

If eveything has happened before he went to a coma, why is armand still around. They broke it off way before the start of the interview.

And lastly. If he isn’t inte a coma. Is it possible the rockstar thing hasn’t happened and he thinks Louis is dead until the book is published? Or is he off doing his thing?

Hey Anon,

Well, honestly, the book doesn't really give an explanation as to why Lestat woke up. Before then, only music was able to rouse him briefly. But Louis trying to kill himself finally had Lestat up and completely awake, and not going back to sleep again afterward.

The reader is basically IMO supposed to infer that it was love that woke him the final time. Lestat more or less implies that's the reason why he won't go back to sleep and he's worked through his post-Memnoch ordeal and will stay awake now when he's talking to David Talbot about it:

As to when things happened, no I don't believe everything happened before this second interview if we are in Lestat's post-Memnoch coma situation right now.

See, I think a mistake that many people are making with this adaptation, is thinking that everything had to have happened in the exact order in which they happened in the books. That just isn't the case IMO. Things can very easily be switched around timeline-wise and still work IMO. Especially because the timeline has already been moved ahead when it comes to some things, not least of which is when Louis was turned and when Louis and Armand first meet each other.

Lestat and Armand both have an extra 150 years or so (and even more in Armand's case) of life to account for in the show's universe than they do in the books because of when Louis was turned in the show vs the books.

The Devil's Minion and Lestat's rockstar career could have both very well happened in the past. In the case of The Devil's Minion, for example, I'm like 95% sure it happened in the past. But that does not mean the events surrounding things like Akasha's awakening also had to have happened in the past as well, even if those two things did.

In the books, Louis and Armand were together for about 60 years - from c.1870 to 1929. In the show, Louis and Armand meet around 1945, given the diary entry Daniel skimmed in EP4 that has Claudia saying they finally arrived in Paris in 1945 (which would have been just after WWII ended). Between 1945 and 1973 when they first meet Daniel in San Francisco, that is only 28 years. Nowhere near the almost 60 years, they spent together in the book before they broke up. (And the 44 years after that before Louis first met Daniel.) And 1945 to 2022 is 77 years. We have no idea if Armand and Louis split for a time or so - or not - before they started living together again now in Dubai.

Louis and Armand being together now doesn't really mean much honestly. Armand and Louis were living together at the start of the book Prince Lestat, which is set in 2014. Just because certain events that, in the books, preceded Prince Lestat may not have happened yet, doesn't mean the show can't have decided to set that particular plot point of them living together to be happening now, even if things in previous books before it haven't happened yet in the show's timeline.

As to your last question, I actually thought about it for a while, and I've settled on thinking Louis does know Lestat's alive right now. (Just currently in a coma-sleep-like state.) I don't think Louis knew at all after the events of Paris. I think he truly thought Lestat was dead. But, just as in the books, I think Louis found out the truth about Lestat being alive when Lestat pulled the rockstar thing. Because yes, I too think Lestat's rockstar career happened in the past, back in the 1980s.

And before someone asks, I said in another post about this that Lestat's rockstar career was basically the equivalent of being a one-hit-wonder. His band had one big concert (that kinda ended badly) and then that was it. After that event, the band changed their name back to Satan's Night Out and Lestat never took the stage as a rockstar again. I may have just been a little kid at the time, but I did live through the 1980s and I can't name every one-hit-wonder band from that time. Daniel's memories are already hinted at as having holes and blocks in them. That he didn't automatically recognize the name The Vampire Lestat doesn't mean much at all right now IMO.

So yes, at the moment, I think Lestat's rockstar career bit happened in the past. I also think the reason that career happened was for a different reason than why he did in the books since IWTV was never published in the 1970s in this universe. Lestat would have had no reason to answer that book with his own book and videos. And the only thing I feel for sure that has happened in the past from Queen of the Damned is the Devil's Minion storyline.

Everything else is very up in the air for me, particularly Akasha's rising. I can very well see it having happened in the 1980s like in the books; I can see it being set up with the whole "great conversion" thing the show has made up to happen in the modern day. However, I can also see it being something that happened during Lestat and Armand's missing 150 years before Louis enters the picture. I just don't know yet.

However, I don't think that it has to happen in response or tied to Lesat's rockstar career. You can do both things at different time points and still make it work IMO.

[nashvillethotchicken]

https://www.tumblr.com/platoapproved/770149462860578816/i-hope-its-ok-that-i-ask-how-will-your-loumand

Speaking of people tiptoeing around the severity of what Armand did to Louis

See this is why I stepped away from Tumblr because of bullshit like this. 1: ion really love stuff like this being sent to me on anon bc it just feels inherently wack and badmouthy like I prefer this stuff dm'd to me if you want to see what I actually think about it. I just prefer my nonsense to come from a verifiable source instead of anons y'know? But I'll answer just this once 2: Armand gaslit Louis, period. We see him do attempt it during the argument they have in s2e4 (the you sure about that after Louis says it wasn't him) and we see him literally do it in ep 5 after Louis attempts (you said the worst things you've ever said to me then you went into the sun, fully neglecting his part of the argument, and louis believes it) and he attempts to do it again in ep 8 after he gets caught for his involvement (it was a little thing, you have forgiven me, it was 1 night). He's not lying by omission with his involvement in the trial, he's just straight up lying and being manipulative. Armand said he wasn't involved in the actual play just getting them there, which is a lie because he directed the play and very well, to the point of having multiple notes on how to make the play better (not seating in the round, telling the animators to big up the hoarding) this is more than a simple lie of omission. It's also telling that they don't see San Francisco as a lie, even though we know for a fact Armand lied to Louis because he erased his memory and told him a new story, which Louis then believes and has so ingrained into him he spits out armands own talking points like it's breathing. That's lying! And then to say actually Louis did ask for them to be erased is kinda silly; Louis has adopted Claudia's we keep the damage so we dont forget the damage mentality, he keeps the rocks he was tortured with in his feet so he doesnt forget how bad it was, keeps diaries and pictures of loved ones he's hurt and who have hurt him. Louis is a hoarder why would he not want to hoard his memories? Especially related to something as big as a suicide attempt when he's been suicidal for a very long time and has a family history of suicidal ideation like it just doesn't make sense. Also how was Louis able to ask after a shower when he still could barely walk after 6 days. You can say he was put in the coffin and given more blood but even still that injury, especially for someone like Louis that doesn't eat enough, would still be serious enough where he shouldn't be showering.

To portray Armand actions as not manipulative is to not portray Armand fully. Like they end the post with why can everyone else be imperfect but Armand, why is he a machiavellian manipulator and what inspires this reaction? Ion know, maybe the straight up manipulation? Armand being manipulative makes him a flawed character, not a machiavellian manipulator and I think it actually flattens him a lot to do this run around saying he isn't manipulative. He is and that's ok! He literally tells louis that they should manipulate Daniel so he only hears the story louis (really armand) wants to tell. Thats why he has the private session with Daniel in ep 3 to steer the narrative to him being wronged by lestat to make lestat to be the ultimate villain not him, that's why Armand began butting in and interjecting in s2 to guide how he was seen once we got to Paris, so he can control the narrative. We see him do it in ep 4 when Armand tries to say that Claudia loved being baby lulu and louis corrects him and says both Claudia and Louis hated baby lulu. Hell the united front/love story for the ages thing was manipulation because it was to get Daniel off his guard so he didn't ask the hard questions that would lead to the discovery made at the end of the season. You can just say I don't wanna write him being manipulative and move on like people have to reckon with the things the characters have done in iwtv fanfic if they're writing Canon compliant works and you have to give some credence to the characters actual traits and actions in aus like we just need to be serious. Overall post bad and if you want me to do something like this again send it off anon or in the dms cus ion like doing these long ass posts talking about a post I got sent on anon I am not deuxmoi or nalyra

[nashvillethotchicken]

Excellent post Ash

Armand gaslit Louis, period. We see him do attempt it during the argument they have in s2e4 (the you sure about that after Louis says it wasn't him) and we see him literally do it in ep 5 after Louis attempts (you said the worst things you've ever said to me then you went into the sun, fully neglecting his part of the argument, and louis believes it) and he attempts to do it again in ep 8 after he gets caught for his involvement (it was a little thing, you have forgiven me, it was 1 night). He's not lying by omission with his involvement in the trial, he's just straight up lying and being manipulative. Armand said he wasn't involved in the actual play just getting them there, which is a lie because he directed the play and very well, to the point of having multiple notes on how to make the play better (not seating in the round, telling the animators to big up the hoarding) this is more than a simple lie of omission. It's also telling that they don't see San Francisco as a lie, even though we know for a fact Armand lied to Louis because he erased his memory and told him a new story, which Louis then believes and has so ingrained into him he spits out armands own talking points like it's breathing. That's lying! And then to say actually Louis did ask for them to be erased is kinda silly; Louis has adopted Claudia's we keep the damage so we dont forget the damage mentality, he keeps the rocks he was tortured with in his feet so he doesnt forget how bad it was, keeps diaries and pictures of loved ones he's hurt and who have hurt him. Louis is a hoarder why would he not want to hoard his memories? Especially related to something as big as a suicide attempt when he's been suicidal for a very long time and has a family history of suicidal ideation like it just doesn't make sense. Also how was Louis able to ask after a shower when he still could barely walk after 6 days. You can say he was put in the coffin and given more blood but even still that injury, especially for someone like Louis that doesn't eat enough, would still be serious enough where he shouldn't be showering.

To portray Armand actions as not manipulative is to not portray Armand fully. Like they end the post with why can everyone else be imperfect but Armand, why is he a machiavellian manipulator and what inspires this reaction? Ion know, maybe the straight up manipulation? Armand being manipulative makes him a flawed character, not a machiavellian manipulator and I think it actually flattens him a lot to do this run around saying he isn't manipulative. He is and that's ok! He literally tells louis that they should manipulate Daniel so he only hears the story louis (really armand) wants to tell. Thats why he has the private session with Daniel in ep 3 to steer the narrative to him being wronged by lestat to make lestat to be the ultimate villain not him, that's why Armand began butting in and interjecting in s2 to guide how he was seen once we got to Paris, so he can control the narrative. We see him do it in ep 4 when Armand tries to say that Claudia loved being baby lulu and louis corrects him and says both Claudia and Louis hated baby lulu. Hell the united front/love story for the ages thing was manipulation because it was to get Daniel off his guard so he didn't ask the hard questions that would lead to the discovery made at the end of the season. You can just say I don't wanna write him being manipulative and move on like people have to reckon with the things the characters have done in iwtv fanfic if they're writing Canon compliant works and you have to give some credence to the characters actual traits and actions in aus like we just need to be serious.

I hope it’s OK that I ask, how will your Loumand fic do the gaslighting stuffs ? Will there be a sad ending , or if it’s in a universe where Armand won’t do that so it has a happy ending !

Firstly, strictly in regards to the fanfic: we set out to write a fanfic that is earnest, optimistic, and invested in the importance of Louis and Armand's love for one another over the course of their long relationship. I don't know that I am able to categorize the ending, and overall tone, as sad or happy. It's a mixture.

Secondly, I don't want anyone to think it's not okay to ask stuff and I am thus choosing to assume the most good faith version of this question, where you really just want to know what's in store for the fic in regards to tone. However, I do want to say that waking up to this in my inbox bummed me out a lot. I think a friend put it well when I shared this and they agreed that it can read as "Will you address my specific headcanons in your fic? And if not, can I judge you for it?" There's a (probably unintended!) air of… policing how happy Louis/Armand fics are allowed to be and in what circumstances.

Thirdly, I'm going to hand it over to @marbleflan for a response to the idea of 'the gaslighting stuffs' being a necessary talking point to all Loumand fics:

Wow, ok buckle up yall this is gonna be long!

This is one of those asks that is just so hard to know where to begin. Let’s start with how Armand gaslighting is presented as an immutable fact of the show that we would have to rewrite or omit in order to write a story with a happy/optimistic ending. So first of all: what gaslighting?

Just as a reminder, gaslighting as a term comes from the film Gaslight and refers to subtle acts of denial of someone’s perceived reality in order to undermine their confidence in their own version of events. Crucially, gaslighting is a pattern of behavior, and relies on small acts of denial (in the film, the level of light thrown by the gas lamps, hence the title) that make possible larger assertions of one reality over another. So when and where exactly does Armand engage in this behavior? Point me to the places where this is happening because I haven’t seen it.

This kind of assertion that Armand is “gaslighting” or “manipulating” Louis is so pervasive in the fandom, to the point where it’s often presented as a fact of his character rather than one possible interpretation of his actions. My own interpretation is that Armand engages in a lot more self-deception than he does conscious manipulation: that is, when he lies to Louis, he really thinks he is justified by the circumstances, rather than misleading him for some ulterior purpose.

Armand lies to Louis canonically twice: 1) when he colludes with the cult to kidnap Louis and Claudia and put them on trial and 2) when he mischaracterizes his role in the trial as coerced and passive when in fact it was active. For me, the biggest factor in thinking Armand makes the choices he makes because he believes he has no other alternative is the delivery of the line “I could not have prevented it” about Claudia’s death. To me, this line is delivered not to Louis and not to Daniel, but to Armand himself—he’s reassuring himself that even if he made different choices the trial and its fallout were not preventable. 

Given Armand’s backstory, this kind of makes sense. Although he is the most powerful vampire in the coven, his experiences have taught him that being the most powerful will not save you: his maker, after all, was even more powerful and ancient and was burned alive by the Children of Darkness. And Lestat’s disruption of Armand’s rule over the CoD likewise showed him that a persuasive and charismatic leader can overturn centuries of indoctrination. It isn’t that he literally couldn’t have prevented it—it’s that he believes he couldn’t prevent it. 

The second lie, about the extent of his involvement, I think is really where there could be multiple interpretations. Why would he do this? My own take is that he does not go into the trial thinking Louis will survive. He fully expects that both Claudia and Louis will be killed and he’ll be left behind. Thus, he plays the role he always plays within the coven: artistic director. Later, after Lestat manages to intervene and transmute Louis’s sentence, he decides to free Louis. When Louis assumes Armand saved him at the trial, Armand doesn’t correct him and goes along with it, and the lie spirals from there. 

To me, I can completely see Armand justifying these lies of omission in a variety of ways. Sure, he didn’t save him at the trial, but he did save him later (by freeing him from the coffin). Sure, he did betray him, but he thought he didn’t have a choice. What’s the difference between feeling like you don’t have a choice and being physically restrained? And so on, and so forth. My point is not that Armand is blameless, or that he should be absolved of responsibility for his choices, but rather to point out that his actions aren’t fundamentally manipulative. They’re in character for someone who has survived a lot of abuse and violence, and whose priority is their own continued survival.

Now let’s talk about the San Francisco episode. Louis recovers his memories and is shaken, upset, and resentful that Armand took them; Armand claims Louis requested he remove them. Is he lying? The show doesn’t actually tell us! It’s completely left up to the audience to decide! Despite the near ubiquity of the opinion that Armand is lying here, I think there’s plenty of reason to think Louis might have indeed asked Armand to wipe his memories.

Firstly, it’s weird that Armand would have chosen only this memory to wipe, but left Louis with so many unflattering memories of him completely intact. Why not erase the trial, or at least Armand’s betrayal? Armand, in Louis’s Paris memories, fights with him, fucks up in front of him, all sorts of things. If Armand’s goal is manipulating Louis (for what, I’m not even sure - just to stay in a relationship with him?) why erase only this one memory? And moreover, why not erase Daniel altogether? Daniel stays with Louis and Armand for five days and then Armand says he erased Louis’s memories three days after that. Armand can erase eight days of memory but not eight and a half?

Secondly, although Daniel makes a huge deal out of their memories cutting off at the same moment, to me this is more of a flag for the opposite. In Louis’s own recovered memories, he is an active participant in erasing Daniel’s memory: in fact, it is practically his idea! Armand is ready to drain Daniel, wrap him in plastic, and yeet him into the nearest incinerator, and Louis is the one who demands he live. Louis is the one seen feeding Daniel his rote lines. Louis’s own rote lines, which emphasize Daniel’s importance, make more sense for him to have authored than Armand, who at that point is pretty much ready to kill Daniel and be done with it.

I also think it’s in character for Louis to have asked for it. Louis, in season one in the confession scene, says explicitly that his problem is avoidance: he runs to the bottle, etc. In fact that’s exactly what we see him doing in 1973, escapism via drugs and sex. Louis’s desire for the truth but instinct to misremember is central to his whole character. Hence the emotional freight of him telling Daniel that Lestat’s version of Claudia’s turning was more accurate, it’s him confronting how even as he tried to reveal the truth to Daniel his instinct was to alter the details to make himself seem less culpable. He’s always struggling with this: how much of what happened is his fault? He’s afraid of the answer, because he feels responsible for it. Additionally, Louis has trauma specifically around suicide, because of Paul’s death. So yeah; I can see him at a low point in 1973 saying “I can’t live with myself, I don’t want to remember this.”

This is just my interpretation, but it’s as valid as any other, because the show does not give us the answer. 

This is getting way too long and I have more to say BUT finally I’ll just ask that if you’re jumping on the “Armand is manipulating Louis” bandwagon please sit with yourself for a moment over why it’s that character that must be the manipulator. Why, in a show that takes great pains to have a full cast of flawed, realistic, imperfect characters, the one that is somehow irretrievably, Machiavellian-ly manipulative? What is it about him that inspires this reaction? 🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐 Maybe just sit with that question for a minute. 

-

THANK YOU @marbleflan for all that. I'm going to be honest: I don't really have the emotional energy for further discussion of this, which is why I'm grateful my friend was willing to share her thoughts. If you disagree with this, that's your prerogative! But I'm not going to be answering any asks that seem to be judging/policing/starting drama over a wrong interpretation of the character or ship.

[claudiaindarkness]

Your Muse’s Backstory

Tagged by: @rosefisherlioncourt

Tagging: YOU

1. Where were they born? What is the story behind their birth, if any?

Claudia was born to the world of humans in 1790 in The united states, New Orleans, Louisiana, but she was born into darkness on September 21, 1795. Her human birth is a bit of a mystery due to her young age but much more can be said about her immortal birth. Louis de Point du Lac was filled with depression and in a poor state from lack of proper feeding. He stumbled upon crying Claudia who was clutching her mother who was dead from the pledge. In the prosses of comforting her his hunger got the best of him and he fed from her. That was when his maker Lestat de Lioncourt found him. Ridden with gilt from feeding on an innocent child, Louis ran away. Lestat and Louis were on rocky terms in there relationship so Lestat scooped up Claudia as a plan popped into his mind. Bringing her back home to where he was staying with Louis, Lestat offered her to Louis as a present. Lestat gave Claudia the DarkGift and they became a family.

2. Has their living situation changed from when they were born?

When Claudia was born into darkness she lived with Lestat and Louis. It was like that for many years until she manipulated Louis into leaving Lest to just living with Louis. They left New Orleans and traveled around the world for more vampires. They went to Paris, France and were separated. Claudia now lives by herself. 

3. What occupations did their parents have when they were born? Did this job influence your muse in any form?

Information on her human parents are unknown. As for Lestat and Louis, they were and are mysteriously wealthy. Lestat’s blood lust definitely infused Claudia’s love for hunting, something very separate form Louis. Yet, she fell in love with a lot of their other hobbies. Books, art, knowledge, theater.

4. Did they have any childhood enemies? Any friends? Enemies that became friends?

Claudia was around a very small amount of people which makes it very difficult to have enemies or friends. There was only every Lestat and Louis.

5. What sort of religion was practiced in their home? Did religion play a role in their upbringing?

Lestat and Louis didn’t practice any type of religion with her, so it wasn’t a role in her upbringing.

6. How many siblings did they have? What was their relationship like? Were they an only child who wished for siblings?

Louis gave the gift to a couple people: Madeleine, Merrick, and Lestat a few more: Nicolas, Antoine, David, Gabrielle, Mona, Rose, and God knows who else. Mist of this happened after Claudia had separated from them so she doesn’t really have a relationship with any of them. Claudia likes having other’s full attention so siblings were never really a thought to her. As she met a few of them her thoughts were mostly curiosity and indifference.

7. What is their fondest memory?

Her fondest memory is one of her earliest ones. Waking in the blood and finding herself as the daughter of Louis and Lestat. Back then ignorance was bliss. She was just happy to have two men that loved her. Back then, it was enough.

8. If they could name the worst moment of their life, what would it be? Did this change them as a person or change how they perceived the world, themselves, and others?

The worst moment would be that night in the theatre. The night she was separated from Louis, Madeleine died, she came extremely close to death, and left to survive on her own. That moment left her believing Louis had abandoned her and she had no one. It left her traumatized and showed her what it was like to exist with nothing but her will to live. It changed her in worse ways than it helped her.

9. If they were to make a timeline with their life events, which ones would they list? Which would they leave out?

1794- born into darkness.

1860- comes to terms that she will never age and attempts to kill Lestat. Begins traveling the world with Louis.

Early 1862- discovers the mindless monster like vampires while traveling the world.

Late 1862- finds Armand in Paris. Louis gives Madeleine the DarkGift. Is separated from Louis, Madeleine meets the sun, and Claudia escapes death.

1863- leaves france.

1900- possess enough money to not be struggling for survival anymore.

*In AdultClaudia verse*

2000- acquired an Adult body.

10. What was the hardest lesson they had to learn as they got older?

It's not a sign of weakness to ask for help. This is something she still struggles with everyday. She's too proud to ask for help but sometimes it's the only way to get something done, no matter how hard she tries to be self sufficient.

11. What occupation did your character want to have growing up? Is this the same as what they wish to be, or are in, now?

Growing up Claudia had money to buy whatever she wanted. Because of this wealth she had no desire to work. Perhaps when she was very little there were thoughts of being an actress in the plays she loved to see. After that it was obvious that she would never 'grow up' so her only other desire was to find a way to acquire an adult body. After that's achieved she's had thoughts of being ruler. Queen Claudia. It's a stretch but the thought is all in fun.

12. Did they face any kind of bullying or abuse growing up?  

Bullying, of course. She's a grown woman trapped in a child's body. She's easy prey for bullying.

13. Are there any moments of their past they keep secret?

100% and it wouldn't be a secret if she told someone.

14. Did they live near extended family in the past? How did this shape their environment? Are any of their relatives near their age? What are their feelings towards extended family in general?

She's only every lives with Lestat and Louis. Benji has the youngest human body next to hers but with his relationship to Armand she's not sure how they would get along. Because she tried to kill Lestat she's not sure how Gabrielle would feel about her as a granddaughter. She's indifferent to extended family.

15. Would they rather go back and relive their childhood? Why or why not?

No. Everything she has done she did for a reason and would do it all again if she could. She regrets nothing. Reliving it all would only cause more trauma.

[je-suis-clarisse]

The news of the child vampire, Claudia's demise, had moved through Paris faster than the plague had moved through the entirety of Europe in the Dark Ages. The whole thing was everywhere and even Clarisse du Volde, who was something of an outcast amongst them all, heard it. It saddened her to think of the famed 'Brat Prince', Lestat de Lioncourt all alone. She had been compared to him throughout her life. Both were French, had dabbled in theatre, were blonde with remarkable eyes, and each was themselves. It was something the others seemed to envy; that the pair had a sense of themself and held to it. Neither were bothered about the 'rules' of their lifestyles. Clarisse had to admit that she had been in awe of the elder vampire for some time. Still, she listened to the chatter but did not comment on his misfortune. Only once did she venture to speak out, and it was when someone said he 'had what was coming to him', and she had threatened to burn their coffin to cinders, after which she would blow the ashes to the north, south, east, and the west. It was the only time she had allowed the vampires of Paris to know unnecessary cruelty would not be permitted before her. She did pride herself on having manners; manners that Vivian du Volde had instilled in all four of her children. Even though she did not wish to claim her youngest, her lessons were well learned and Clarisse applied them to her everyday life, even now. What he needed, she decided, was a friend. Someone to cheer him, for he certainly couldn't be enjoying life. He had lost the two beings who meant the world to him. Clarisse well understood the pain of losing a child. She had already been planning to revisit New Orleans and thus, she made it happen, taking a leave from the theatre and returning to the city that had captured her heart years prior. Even better, she would not be here when there would be a war on. Hopefully, some of the wounds inflicted upon one another would have begun the healing process. Clarisse had seen it first hand when she'd been visiting years prior. The ship she boarded some days later was called 'la reine de la mer'. The voyage was mostly pleasant, though she did ache to see the sun's rays against the water, shimmering. Her stateroom was lovely enough but she could only leave at night. She had hired a maid for the journey, one who understood that the porthole in her room was to remain covered during the day and that she was to not be disturbed at all when the sun was out. She explained that the life of an actress had her schedule entirely 'topsy turvy' and she had to follow it. No one bothered her, fortunately, nor questioned her about it. Considering the amount of money she had paid, they'd damn well better not bother her. She was also glad to see that they didn't question when someone in steerage died questionably. Clarisse namely picked off the older ones, those already close to death. Beyond that, she kept to herself and at night, it wasn't uncommon to find her sitting on the deck gazing out at the night sky, sketching what she saw...or what she'd like to see. Occasionally, someone might stop to see what she was drawing, but mostly the others frowned at her charcoal stained fingers. She always found it amusing how stuck-up some people were. She knew that even though she was wealthy, she did her best to be kind to all of those with whom her path crossed. It was as simple as that. Besides, even those who did look at her work and offered to purchase a piece, she declined. Her sketchbook gave life to what she missed most. It was her connection. It also contained drawings of the people going about their normal days. What would her life be now, had her son lived, she wondered? She'd drawn him too. There was no record of him anywhere. He lived only in her mind. There was a cross where he was buried, but no name. She'd been unable to afford the engraving. Clarisse closed her eyes as the child crossed her mind. His sweet face, tinged with blue lips and stillness. It hurt her still, even all these years later. Her mind went to Claudia, whom she was told was a beautiful child, though her mind was that of a woman grown. She had heard that she had beautiful flaxen curls and big, round blue eyes that seemed to see all and know all. That she was wise beyond her years. She had the finest attire and was as refined as anyone. Claudia sounded like someone she would have delighted in a meeting. However, her bitterness ultimately caused her demise. Clarisse did want to feel sympathy for her--and she did. To create a child vampire was cruel. Lestat ought to have known better. Yet, she could not fault Claudia for feeling anger towards her sire and for trying to kill him. She had done the same on the night of her own siring. Like Claudia, she was unsuccessful in that. Claudia, however, had given Louis the nerve he needed to leave. If her goal had been to isolate Lestat, well, she had done that. Clarisse had no idea what had become of Colin. She'd thought him dead, but he was, much to her chagrin, alive and well. Scarred from his burning, but alive and someday, he would have his vengeance.   Putting him out of her mind, she found herself thinking of the child vampire again. Clarisse tried to envision what her last moments were like before the sun touched her porcelain skin for the first time in years. Did she hope that there would be an escape? That someone could save her? And the agony she must have felt once her flesh burnt away to nothing. She wondered if she would ever subject herself to that. If when she tired of life, if she'd step into the sun and end it all. It was something all vampires considered, she supposed. Didn't they? She didn't know. She had never had the opportunity to ask another one. Frederick was in Rome--and not speaking to her, her sister Vivienne...she didn't care to know. The rest of their family was long dead. She was, essentially, alone in the world, except for the occasions where she took a lover. And that was rare. Who would ever want a walking corpse? Along with drawing, she read and practiced her English with the maid. By the time they reached New Orleans, Clarisse felt confident in her English speaking abilities. It was always a delight to master a language. It was simply her accent that would make things challenging. Clarisse would manage though. She was an actress. It was what she did, not to mention, whatever hurdle was tossed at her, she endured. Much to the chagrin of many. What could she say? It was just her lot in life. To endure where others did not, could not. She surprised even herself at times. But ah, New Orleans! When her feet touched the ground, she felt the same feeling she felt in Paris--that she was home. It cemented her plan that she would make it official and buy something whilst she was here. To deny herself the pleasure was absurd. Hailing a hansom cab and seeing to it that her trunks were packed on and she climbed in with Celine at her side. For the first week that she was there, Clarisse had rented out a room in the quarter. She'd also put a deposit in for a townhouse within the quarter. It needed some work done and she had her maid, named Celine, tend to the business for her during the day time. At night time, Clarisse reacquainted herself with the city. She was always struck by the diversity of the people here. There were as many people of color here as there were white people. She loved the melting pot that was New Orleans. She loved the vibrancy, how even at night, the city felt alive. She loved the scent of the banana trees and the earth after a day of rain. The food with all of its rich spices and flavors, the stories... many things made Nouvelle Orleans a beautiful place. It was also no wonder that other vampires came to visit. She listened to them and one evening, she heard what she wanted most to hear. The following night, Clarisse was heading to Prytania Street. It was a quiet street, near to the Layfayette Cemetary. It was not where she'd want to live, a stark reminder of where she ought to be. She was just over a century old--most of those as a vampire. She had been 'dead' more than she'd been alive. She was looking out of the window of her hansom cab before finally asking the driver to stop. Stepping down, she smoothed out the folds of her dark blue dress and closed her eyes for a moment, letting her senses tell her if this was the right place. Within moments, something told her to leave. That she was in danger where she stood. However, Clarisse was not one to listen. She was not afraid. Perhaps she should have been, but she had endured enough that she was not bothered with being scared. The house was small but lovely. It was inviting. Certainly different from the home she resided in back in Paris. Some teased and said her estate looked like something the royals might have lived in. It had been somewhere the Duc de Orleans had visited a century prior. But the Greek Revival styled home was beautiful. Clarisse liked the columns and the porch, as well as the wrought iron fence. She paused to trace her fingers over the design for a moment, tracing over the fleur de lis and finally, she found her nerve--rather, more than likely, her audacity. She walked up the cobblestone pathway and onto the porch, raising her hand to the doorknocker and knocking, allowing him to know he had company. Wanted or not. monsieur, i have come a long way to meet you, she called out to him telepathically, letting down her guard and allowing her thoughts to be read; allowing him to see that she was not here to harm--as if!--him. That she had no ill intention, but only to be a friend. "Monsieur de Lioncourt," she spoke as the door opened finally. The moment was here. There was no going back now. There was no mistaking him. The violet hue of his eyes, the glassy nails, the blonde hair curling just above his shoulders. But there was a weakness in him. She could feel it. It came from a place of despair and her heart swelled in sorrow for him. She knew that this was most certainly unconventional and God knew, it was rude to drop in like this. However, the word was that he had no friends. Louis was with Armand, supposedly. Lestat de Lioncourt was alone. But if this went well, he would accept the friendship she offered and the care.   The dark moons under his eyes revealed he required blood. He looked worse for wear...and perhaps she should have turned and run the other way, but she squared her shoulders looking up at him. "Monsieur, I am Clarisse du Volde," she introduced herself, slowly in English. "It is truly an honor to make your acquaintance," she dipped into a respectful curtsy and then...it was a matter of waiting to see what he was going to do.

[nalyra-dreaming]

There's something about how we are collectively digesting the supposedly Armand messing with Louis and Daniel's memories reveal/confirmation that rubs me the wrong way. It's not that I'm not convinced that he was responsible for (at least) part of the tinkering (although I have the feeling that there was *someone else* who did it). It is that most of the discourse I see makes it sound as something kind of forced from Armand when imo the key to all of it it is precisely the fact that it is all a barter between Louis and Armand.

From Armand's traumatic past as a sex slave and his life with Marius to Armand letting Daniel live in exchange for Louis's companionship. Armand says to Daniel "Bartering with desire. Is that what makes you fascinating?" And that's exactly what his relationship with Louis is about cause this is the only way Armand understands love, as a transaction. And Louis happens to be an art dealer who's very good at running things.

Among all the relationships in the show, I think Loumand is probably the least wholesome (sorry Naomi but you were so wrong). And that's what makes it the most fascinating imo. Loumand is the most messed up relationship in the show not because of power imbalance like Armand Marius or Devil's Minion but because there is an agreement between them. I think that robbing Louis of his agency in the deal would be missing the point of both the novel and the show

Mhhhh. I know what you're getting at. I mean, you probably know I am of the opinion that Louis did invite Armand to secure Claudia's and his own safety (at first at least), and he certainly behaves as if this relationship protects him from the pressures of the rules (and coven).

So there is a certain level of... assumed control. But... There was this post a few days back, comparing Armand to a willingly leashed tiger, and I think that fits very well.

Because even though you know that I still think that there might be more to it all (especially wrt Daniel's memories if the 12 years DM truly happened), and though I do think that Louis might even have asked Armand for a reprieve... I do not think Louis would consent to an intrusion like this. Armand is still very much in control, and Assad put it very precisely I think, when he said that he just cannot relax with the truth... Armand is the only one who knows the truth, and who... has Louis under "maintenance". He "protects Louis from himself".

In fact I think this, and the missing pages, and a lot of other little things will come to a head now in Dubai. Probably will facilitate that "cataclysmic event" that I've been talking about...

I... do think there was a lot more to the relationship before San Francisco than there is after SF. Because Armand literally controls Louis after. He says that the name "Lestat" had not been uttered in their relationship for 23 years, but it's still a trigger for them both, leading to catastrophic results in a single session. Oh, the other "tri-annual" events and kills were bad enough, but this... this was new. And Armand went and made sure it wouldn't happen again.

You are right that Loumand is among the least healthy relationships... I would argue even canonically so, though of course the show has dialed it up to 99. (And god, I wished Naomi/her guest had never said that, the drama this statement caused, seriously). But I... I mean, it is more interesting in Paris and up to San Francisco, definitely. Or, at least in Paris. Because I think... I think whatever happens after the trial will already shift their relationship. Because why would Louis, this Louis stay with Armand? Why does he? What exactly makes him stay with Armand. (I think that will be a really interesting aspect in the show!)

For ME((!!!!))... that is why Loumand is not fascinating (Though I get it if it is for you^^💕). Because Louis is not well... and Armand... Armand tags along, they foreshadowed that on the walk along the Seine - and then Louis tags along, later. Or exists.

(*by a companion.)

Armand tries to salvage what he can while groveling for what he did in Paris. And that is precisely where their "agreement" stops, for me. Because if your mind is tinkered with... you cannot consent.

It's like being under drugs - you cannot consent.

And Armand has never been much about consent... unfortunately.

So yeah, that's ... my two cents on this^^.

It definitely is one of the most difficult relationships at this point.

We'll see in the next episodes where Louis' "agreement" with Armand stops, I think. Because if I'm right and Louis did not see this as part of the "agreement"? Then this will hit the fan in Dubai - and personally I expect it to (and I think, going by Jacob's statement - it will).

[the-immortal-armand]

Armand watched the change in Rian's demeanor from the moment he walked into the kitchen to the moment Rian saw Marius. It was as if a switch had been thrown and Rian lit up. Marius was embraced and cuddled as he gave Rian the tin full of cookies and Armand watched. He was a bit hurt that it had been Marius that had garnered that reaction and not him. Had they bonded so much during that one visit at Marius's home? A wave of sadnes hit him. He suddenly felt... alone.

He looked to Louis as he entered. His reaction to this was the one that Armand dreaded. Nicolas's opinion of him did not matter too much. He didn't care one way or the other what the violinist thought. Louis, on the other hand, would be second only to Marius in this betrayal. This secret that Armand had kept to himself. It was a large secret, and Armand had kept it for a very long time. His heart cracked at the silence from his green-eyed lover, and he instinctively wrapped his arms around himself, crossing them over his chest as he slipped on his old, dusty, coven master facade.

His years in the theatre making him well adept at putting on masks. Especially at the look that Louis gave him. He recognized that it was more than mere annoyance. He saw the betrayal. He pain that Louis was feeling, even without having to read his mind. He knew his black panther far too well to be fooled. He watched Louis move to the dining room table and wait for the story.

"Rian and I met in... 1820 or so, I believe," he started off. "I was... fascinated by the fact that he wasn't like any other being I'd ever come into contact with. Here he was... barely into adulthood, and I couldn't read him. His scent was off." He blinked, staring at a spot on the floor, nails biting into his arms to give him the spark of pain he needed to ground himself, though never drawing blood.

"I brought him back to the Theatre with me. And at first, we interated him with the odd jobs. Maintenance, ticket sales, those kinds of things, and he later progressed to one of the best stage hands we could have asked for." He paused for a moment, looking over at Rian. "I grew close to him... though I tried to fight it. I didn't want..." He paused, for a moment. "I didn't want to get hurt again." He hadn't gotten close to anyone, dared not. Not after he'd lost Marius so violently. He was afraid. "I fell in love with him. I fought it. I did. I even debated on throwing him out of the theatre onto the streets." He looked over at Rian then. "Santiago stopped me."

Out of the corner of his eye, he saw Nicolas's head snap to attention at the mention of his fledgling. It was a sensitive topic, one that they had not discussed since Nicolas's return. Armand still watched Rian, a small smile breaking through his mask. "I turned him that night..." he said softly. He looked back to Louis then. "We had years together... almost as many as you and..." Claudia, he wanted to say, but he didn't want to mention her. Not now. But he knew Louis would know what he meant.

"Then one night... I happened upon him... and Santiago." He closed his eyes slightly. "Nothing serious... they were only kissing... but I feared that there was something more going on... that maybe they had... been together behind my back." He shook his head slightly. "I raged. I am a spoiled brat sometimes, we all know this... and I couldn't stand the very thought that Rian might love someone besides me." He clenched his teeth briefly. "Rian stormed out of the theatre in anger. I tried to forbid him leaving... which of course only made him madder."

He opened his eyes again. "That was the last time I saw Rian until just a few weeks ago when he turned up here in New Orleans. I thought he was just angry. I though I'd let him stew. But when he didn't come home after a few nights... I panicked. The entire coven scoured all of Paris, looking for him. Everywhere we could think of. And when that didn't amount to anything, we spread our search to France... then Europe. I went to England, thinking maybe he'd gone back to where he was from... but nothing" He shook his head.

"That was when I got word... that a few of our number had gone missing. They had gone north, towards Scandenavia... and no one could make any sort of mental contact with them anymore. They just dropped off the map." He looked back at Rian. "We never heard from Eleni, Laurent, and Felix again. We drew back to Paris. We'd spent almost a year... looking for you," he said softly. "We reopened the theatre, all our funds had pretty much run dry... and the others tried to console myself... and Santiago... over Rian's loss." He clenched his fists on his arms a little tighter, phyiscal pain was better than emotional.

"I was angry. At myself. At the coven. At Rian. But... I was mostly angry at Santiago. I was so angry. I blamed him... blamed him for Rian's disappearance. If he hadn't been making out with Rian, then maybe..." He shook his head slightly. "And I was so angry at all of us that we had failed to find him." He shook his head. "It wasn't long after that... a few years maybe... when you and Claudia showed up at the theatre. I was... so raw. And there you were, Louis... and it was like being slammed into by a train." His eyes met Louis's then.

"There was compassion in you. Compassion I wasn't seeing in anyone in the coven. They told me to get over it. That Rian was gone for good... but you... there was a gentleness that drew me in. I wanted your arms around me. i wanted you to hold me. But Santiago..." he shook his head slightly. "He was never the same after Rian disappeared. It was even more angry than I was. He wouldn't speak to anyone. Whenever he was not on stage, he was in Rian's chambers, searching for any clue as to where Rian might have gone."

He sighed. "You know, Louis... the loss of a fledgling. I never wanted that for you, truly I didn't. But Santiago wouldn't be persuaded. He was so cruel by that point. That was when we started bringing mortals on stage for more than just a few laughs. The plays all were so dark after that. They killed mortals on the stage for pleasure and kicks. The coven wasn't mine anymore... it was Santiago's. And he was leading them into dark places." He breathed slowly.

"I barely managed to convince him to spare you. To wall you away. It was Lestat..." he said, looking towards the blond male then. "That finally dissuaded him from killing you. He didn't want to anger both me and Lestat..." he said softly. "Lestat loved you. Begged for your life, and for hers. But Santiago said that Claudia had to be punished. Punished for what she was. Punished for trying to destroy his Maker's Maker. He felt that he owed Lestat. On behalf of Nicolas." He shook his head slightly and looked towards a window.

"The years following the fire.. I kept my ear to the ground while we travelled, Louis. Looking still for signs of Rian. To no avail. I didn't want to tell you about him because I feared for him. If he lived, those outside the coven may view him as an abomination. I knew that there had to be more powerful immortals than I around... and I feared what they would do to him. Just because he was different." He slowly relaxed hsi hold on his arms. "By the time I began to believe he was truly dead... I'd kept the secret so long that I feared to tell you lest you leave me."

He bowed his head at this point for a moment, seeking composure, then raised his gaze again. "I'm sorry. I cannot change the past, but that does not mean that I wouldn't if I had the chance. I kept him a secret to protect him. And to protect myself. I didn't want to feel his loss. I just wanted... to seek comfort in your arms. To give you the comfort of mine..." He sighed softly. "I'm sorry, Louis... I truly... truly am."

@red-velvet-roman @whitehowler

cont from here

@the-immortal-armand

Louis followed them into the kitchen expecting it to be a joke along the lines of Puck dressed as a wolf. He was startled to see an actual person. When he heard Armand softly introduce them to one another he did not know what to say. He was stunned. Armand lied. It was an omission but a lie none the less. What else had he lied about? He wondered.

“Bonsoir Rian. Pleased to meet you.” He replied softly after a very long pause. He would be polite. It was not Rian’s fault Armand was a liar after all.

He was not going to call Armand out on his betrayal now. It was private. He did not want any other immortals listening in on them. He wished he had stayed in Vegas longer. He only came home because he was worried about everyone with the storm approaching. He was afraid he would not be able to get back into the city after the storm.

He gave Armand a look to let him know he was annoyed. He heard Lestat dismiss David. He watched them leave the room. He sat down at the table and waited for the explanations that were sure to come. He motioned for everyone to join him if they so wished. He locked his mind tight then looked pointedly at Armand as if to say well get on with it.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hey, I don't know if you already talked about this, but I've seen a lot of speculation about Claudia surviving in the show. Do you think that's likely to happen? I feel like her death and the effect it has on both Louis and Lestat for the rest of the books is too important to change it.

Hey nonny!

Not explicitely, no. :)

Yeah, I've seen those speculations, too. I do not think that is likely to happen. I am aware that the first draft of IWTV had a possibility for this...

But.

The huge tragedy of Claudia as a character, and the utter injustice to her as person (in the books) is that she... just cannot win. She cannot escape her body, she cannot escape her maker (physically, yes, for a while, but the deed that was needed to do so is her downfall), she cannot survive on her own. She cannot make her own.

Claudia was doomed the night Louis found her.

And... the books really rely a lot on her death, too. Lestat talks to her as a stand-in for/with his conscience, tries to deal with her death and his guilt through various adventures, most notably probably TtotBT. Louis tries to conjure her spirit and tries to commit suicide over the result in Merrick. Armand recalls how he tried to give her a grown-up body and totally... disfigured her as a result before burning her in The Vampire Armand.

These are major plot points in the books, and major turning points for the characters.

The showrunners have repeatedly said that they do the books, despite the changes. And I can absolutely see that in the show. I can obviously be wrong here, season 2 will tell, but... it would really change the following books / stories a LOT if she were to survive. And I cannot really see Louis with Armand then afterwards either... not as jaded and looking for someone to relieve him of his pain as he was in that 70s bar, or as solemnly depressed and tortured as he is in that Dubai apartment. And I do not think Claudia would have... allowed him to show her diaries to someone else. Or that she would have allowed Armand to edit them. Or Louis. If Claudia were around still, too much of what happened because of her death would... not happen. And it would also make it necessary to have her in the show later, imho. And I cannot really see that dynamic work with the dynamics we know will happen/are happening?

Also... even if she were to survive Paris... Akasha went and burnt every young and/or weak vampire later. Louis only survived because Lestat loves him.

No, I do not think Claudia survives.

I'm not sure when "fridging" came up (as a concept), but Anne surely did a good example of it in IWTV.

As you said, and I agree, Claudia's death is too important for the storyline to not happen, unfortunately.