#so even me saying he was raped is a lot more committed than the actual story is

[tyrannuspitch]

also while i'm complaining, the love interest in this novel does kind of suck! i don't know what we're meant to see in him besides him Not being a one dimensional raider like all the other norse characters. he has two dimensions, which still, notably, means he's fucking flat. he was an evil raider -> he doesn't want to be any more. he has the capacity for Kindness and Gentleness. okay. is there anything else to him or is he just hot bc he's human. and bc this main character has grown up incredibly isolated and has barely ever met any humans they aren't related to.

also. uhhh. discussion of rape incoming. but like. the main character has been correctively raped. the love interest... has raped two people. but also says he has been "forced to rape someone", meaning that on one occasion when he was a teenager he and another person were both raped by a third party not involved in the physical act. and like i feel like... that could be really interesting if we'd actually spent any time with that idea? because he ties it to gender roles as well, so it is a pretty close parallel to the narrator's trauma? but in the moment it's glazed over / doubted to talk about him as the unambiguous aggressor / potentially reforming himself, and i'm not convinced it's ever going to be revisited. (currently ~80% of the way through.) which is weird for a story that was at least initially so interested in talking about the nuances of gender and stuff. and because after that one scene the story ALSO seems kind of weirdly indifferent to the rapes he did commit. and all the murders lmao. all along. like ???

[queer-ragnelle]

I'm honestly kinda disgusted by the way a lot of authors just seeped their misogyny onto Guinevere to make her so horrible, lol. effectively destroyed a lot of people's view of her and she gets blamed for everything?? people keep shitting on her, saying Lancelot should be shipped with "someone better" and I'm just really annoyed because.. Guinevere is horribly characterized by these weirdos authors 💀. It does not take much to portray her as a complex character while also not making her shitty on purpose because you don't like her for her affair, lol.

I love her so much and it's disappointing how she's been treated :(( which is why I'll never be able to hate Guinevere or her ship with Lancelot

My friend it’s honestly so exhausting at this point. It’s not even limited to writing Guinevere herself as insufferable, but writing other characters behaving worse toward her than they ever were in medlit. Arthur hitting and degrading her when he cheats on her? (Warrior of the West by M. K. Hume) Lancelot using her for political gain and never loving her at all? (Enemy of God by Bernard Cornwell) Owain blocking her passage as she flees danger? (Legend in Autumn by Persia Woolley) Agravaine threatening to rape her? (The Road to Avalon by Joan Wolf) Gawain threatening to rape her? (Guinevere by Lavinia Collins) WHO are these characters bro you got me fucked up!!! The subtext here is that the authors hate Guinevere (read: women) so much they’re willing to warp everyone around her to treat her like garbage!!!

“Guinevere is bad because she has sex outside marriage.” Yeah so does Arthur. He fucked his own sister. In the dark. Leading her to believe he was her husband. So there’s Mordred, but there’s also Loholt and Arthur the Less etc. Arthur has many bastards from his extramarital affairs. (Vulgate and Post-Vulgate) Yet he isn’t canceled. Hm. Wonder what the difference could be? Let’s investigate. Seems authors treat Morgause and Morgan similarly to Guinevere. Gee, what is the common denominator here? Meanwhile in medlit, Morgause didn’t commit any crimes—she didn’t rape Arthur to have Mordred, she never neglected her children, she never cheated on Lot, and she didn’t prey on young men, she had ONE consistent lover who was younger than her AFTER her husband died. And she was murdered for it. (Post-Vulgate) Yet every other author writes her as a rapist (The Once and Future King by T. H. White), child grooming (The Wicked Day by Mary Stewart), pedophile (The Book of Gaheris by Kari Sperring), trying to put one of her sons on the throne (many examples). Now, Morgan is evil. But not for lewdness, for trying to murder people. In literally every source. Hello. It’s very simple. These authors are ridiculous. They care more about highlighting their opinion that fictional women having sex is BAD than writing a good story. When there are plenty of actually bad things happening in medlit they could condemn instead. You know, like the misogyny? Burning Guinevere at the stake??? You couldn’t make this up. It’s the utter disdain for the material for me. Assuming these dumbasses are even reading the material. Write something else where I can’t see it. (To be clear, I don’t even hate all the books I listed as examples, but they are unfortunately examples.)

Thankfully I haven’t encountered the blogger discourse regarding this. At least not lately. My advice to anyone who sees people shitting on something you like is to block them. Just do it. Fuck that noise. It’s not worth it.

Also I have to laugh at ship discourse about Guinevere/Lancelot. Of all pairs! It’s so unserious. They’re not some random comphet duo from the newest tumblr trending fandom. They’re mythological characters from a medieval literary tradition. Lancelot was created for her. In the 12th century. That was 900 years ago. It feels juvenile to reduce them to ship discourse. Especially because the story is fluid, it can be reshaped to fit the author’s narrative. So if Guinevere sucks, it’s because they made her that way. This is the epitome of making up a girl to be mad at.

“Oh but in Knight of the Cart—” Shh stop talking. If you’re pulling out KotC like some “gotcha” about Guinevere’s treatment of Lancelot, then you’re lost, buddy. You may be seeking entertainment in the wrong place! Guinevere and Lancelot aren’t real. Nobody was “abused” because they’re characters, narrative tools, to tell a story. Guinevere is flawed. Nobody ever said she wasn’t. If that’s too much complexity for you then I don’t know what else there is to say.

Honestly? Nobody is obligated to like Guinevere. I think it’s stupid to dislike her but the real take away is—if you dislike Guinevere so much, hate her even, why the are you writing so poorly about her? She’s as old a character as Arthur himself. Show some fucking respect or get out.

Anyway I’m going to end this with a recommendation! Today I started the third book of Sharan Newman’s Guinevere trilogy. The first two, Guinevere and The Chessboard Queen were utterly AWESOME!! Lots and lots of named women, like Guinevere’s mother Guenlain, Cador’s wife Sidna and daughter Lydia, Guinevere’s handmaiden Risa, and so on. The one downside is Morgause and Morgan are your typical modern retelling baddies, but overall it’s two thumbs up from me. Many points of view, but Guinevere is fascinating and complex and most importantly she is beloved!!!!!! Really hoping it stays enjoyable through to the end. Miss Newman is still in print, so I encourage everyone to seek these books out at your local library or from your favorite bookseller. Here’s a quote from book 2, The Chessboard Queen.

[kanejbr3kker]

Okay I need to vent. This morning I saw this on my fyp:

(btw I'm choosing not to reblog the original post and instead just post screenshots because this is definitely a rant and since the creator and I clearly have different opinions, so I decided it's just better to leave them out of this)

Anyways, I saw this and I got pissed. Very very pissed. And so I spent 2 and a half hours writing a whole three page essay explaining everything wrong with this.

So here it is. (:

First of all, the Darkling does every single thing listed here for Nikolai, excluding cutting people’s fingers off, but he does commit mass murder, which I personally consider to be worse than cutting off someone’s fingers. 

Anyways, let’s first just address Nikolai’s reasons for doing each of these things and then the Darkling’s reasons for doing the same things.

Cutting the fingers off a man: Nikolai was a teenager who wanted to help his incredibly war torn country. He felt helpless, and even once he became a privateer, a lot of people still disrespected him because of his age, so he proved his ruthlessness by injuring one person, so he could help save his entire country. 

Usurping the throne: First of all, Nikolai was second in line to the throne, and after Vasily died, he would’ve been first. Also, the current king was an ignorant rapist who let the rest of the country go to waste to fuel his own luxuries. Nikolai wanted to rescue his country from war and a ruler that was doing nothing to stop hundreds of people (many of them kids) from dying in unnecessary battles.

Lying to Alina/hiding information from her: All Nikolai did was hide his identity from Alina to get her safely away from the Darkling who had just kidnapped her for the second time in less than a year. Kissed her without her consent: Okay, let’s just preface this by saying Malina was what got me hyperfixated on the Grishaverse, so seeing Nikolai kiss Alina did upset me, but he did it spread hope to the Ravkan villagers. They were also already spreading around a fake engagement, so while it was wrong, it wasn’t like he was trying to manipulate her. Nikolai was just trying to make their marriage more believable. (I’d also like to address a scene later in the book where Alina actually wants Nikolai to kiss her, and he says no, knowing that she just wants a distraction and isn’t really in love with him).

And now for why the Darkling did all the same things. 

Trying to usurp the throne: The Darkling hates the king, but not because he’s a terrible person, but because he’s ignorant and the Darkling knows he could be using the Fold to expand Ravka’s power. The Darkling usurps the throne so he can try and take over the country, not because he wants to save it.

Lying to Alina/hiding information from her: Unlike Nikolai, he wasn’t trying to protect her. The Darkling lied to Alina so she would believe that 1) he was in love with her and 2) he wanted to save Ravka. We know this isn’t true. When Nikolai lies, he does it to protect Alina, but when the Darkling lies he does it to manipulate her.

Kissed Alina without her consent: The Darkling tried to convince Alina he was in love with her so she would be easier to manipulate. Alina even says she doesn’t know how he feels about her, and that she doesn’t believe he loves her, but that she wants to be wanted by him. 

And now for everything else the Darkling does:

Mass murder: He destroyed an entire town just to prove a point. 

“Gifting” Genya to the Lantsovs, and then allowing her to be continually raped by them

for years. More than anything else, I feel like this proves just how terrible he is.

Killing his own mother: No explanation needed, that’s just awful.

Threatening to kill Mal to make sure Alina stays in line. He enslaved Alina. He put an unremovable collar around her neck that forced her to do whatever he wanted, and then promised to kill her boyfriend just in case that wasn’t enough.

Using kids as bargaining chips. Using grown people is bad enough, but kids. Sure, they’re Grisha, but they aren’t strong enough to fight back, especially after seeing their captor kill Ana Kuya, who helped care for them while they were in hiding. (Also just felt like adding that Nina was one of the students who he used as a bargaining chip. That’s honestly pretty unimportant, but if you needed another reason to hate him.)

Killing Alina’s mother figure: Again, he did this just to prove a point. He wanted to show Alina that he could hurt the people she cared about, and that was his only incentive.

So that the first 75% of my rant, but I also made the mistake of looking at the comments on that post and added a whole extra page responding to those.

Saying that the same thing can be applied to Kaz is so fucking disrespectful. Kaz is a traumatized teen. Is he violent? Yes. But he only hurts people who have hurt him, his friends, or other innocent people. Oomen nearly killed Inej, as well as the other crows, so Kaz hurt him because he cared about his friends and was mad that they were almost killed. When the Darkling kills people, it’s out of greed for power and the fact that he knows it’ll get a rise out of Alina.

And then this. Kaz calls Inej an investment because he values her. She said four words to him and chose to pay off her indenture. She ended up being not only an incredible spy, but an incredible friend as well. Kaz didn’t need to pay off her indenture, but he did because despite everything terrible that he does, he’s still a genuinely good person, and didn’t want to see a woman being exploited the way she was. An investment is something you value, which is why Kaz calls her one.

Also, Kaz makes a big point of Inej not belonging to anyone. He didn’t force her to get the Dregs tattoo, because he didn’t “want to be the one to mark her again.” He recognized that she was an independent person, and by not making her have the tattoo, he was giving her the freedom to leave Ketterdam when her indenture was paid off. Also, when Inej tells Kaz she wants to leave Ketterdam, he literally buys her a boat so she can leave. That’s not how you treat your property.

And as for the Darkling, he used Alina’s power to start a civil war. What he does is beyond redemption. The Darkling exploits and manipulates women. He abuses and assaults them to reach his own goals, most of which involve destroying the rest of the world so that Ravka stays in power. Comparing him to two kids who just do what they have to to survive is so disrespectful, and clearly you misunderstood the messages of the books if you think that Kaz and Nikolai are the same as the Darkling.

So that's my little anti-Darkling rant. I've already tortured my frienda with this, so if they didn't think I was insane before, they do now lol.

[deaddovehasbeeneaten]

On Rowan, Michael and corruption (kink) - a meta post (7h)

For Rowan and Michael both being extremely het and boring in bed and not really practicing anything besides service and slight rape kink, they're both into corruption a lot. The more I think about it the more sure I am that their entire intimacy, not just sex, is built around it. And they each feel it in both ways, actually. Alright, let me explain.

From Rowan's point of view, she is corrupting Michael as the Witch. She's an evil person with hidden, selfish agendas she's imposing upon him. Her family curse extends from her to him as well and it eats him up. In her desperation, she's dragged him from his life in San Francisco and she keeps him by her side for all the same reasons.

At the same time, Michael is corrupting her because he spoils her rotten. He gives her love she doesn't deserve, and he constructs a family life for her and all the other Mayfairs, even though she, and all of her kind, are evil. He makes her softer, he seemingly evaporates her lifelong loneliness. He gets under her skin, and he forgives everything she wasn't able to forgive herself for decades. He keeps on loving her even after she horribly mistreats him.

From Michael's point of view he is corrupting Rowan because he's utterly unsuited for her. He's much older than she, and when they first meet and fall in love his life is in shambles. Not only is he disturbing her perfect career, but he's subjecting her to his way of life as well, away from what she's always known, he wants that family life, he wants kids, and she never seemed to care for such a thing.  

Rowan is corrupting him because she keeps on giving everything he ever secretly wanted. By this, I mean very simple things such as unlimited freedom in renovating what is essentially his heart house, or the rough sex but also things that are deeply personal for him, such as the name of their child, the child itself.

They reflect in this, they both think they're unworthy, but at the same time they're two dumb bitches saying 'exactlyyyyy' to each other every time they're alone and I see that as another type of corruption (kink, I will get to the kink part in a minute). A nice example of this happens the morning after they spend their first night together.

Rowan admits to all of her crimes (those she knows of) in an active attempt to push Michael away. He dismisses all the murder with almost a wave of his hand. Given what we learn about him later it's very likely he'd even kill some of these people himself, on Rowan's account (Graham).

Even though Rowan doesn't have to accept anything quite as drastic about Michael at the time, she's very willing to look past multiple red flags, either connected directly to him or to their situation, and later she goes on to forgive Michael murder, adultery and statutory rape (among other things!).

To relate all of this back to the way they have sex, we can look at their semi-explicit sex scene from Taltos and then some other parts of the book. In it, it's no new information that Rowan likes it rough. 'Rape from both sides' in her own words but her willingness to be 'raped' outright by Michael (and no other man) is nonetheless striking. It's not only to relieve him physically, it's also for her own mental state. She thinks she deserves it, it's meant to be her punishment, and it's the only way she can take pleasure from him because she's bad and he's already corrupted so he can only obey her (until he doesn't but that's a different story).

I'm hesitant to say if Michael's conviction of his corrupting Rowan translates to the sex so directly as well. He's more ashamed of his preferred way of sex than she is of hers but that has little to do with corruption, or Rowan personally.

The one thing I will mention is his seeming eagerness to put all of the shared sins committed since they married behind them. He encourages Rowan to do it, repeatedly, he openly condones it to her. The reasons he does this are complicated and not focused on, but I think they're at the very least rooted in his desire to help her and be with her.

With this I'm pointing out that he went from desperately wishing for a family and a house full of playing children to only wanting her and her recovery - so much in fact he's willing to personally ask Lestat (her lover as well as the ideal tool for suicide, for Rowan) for help. This transformation is corruption, and I also think it's very erotic.

[spicyclover]

All the things you said | part two

Summary: A big dinner is organized by Charles to bring together some pilots and their wives, girlfriends, sister and friends. Everyone enjoys the evening until a topic of conversation leads to dark revelations. What secrets will be revealed?

Part One | Part Two | Part Three | Part Four | Part Five

Hope you’ll enjoy this part. Let me know in the comments section! And to support me by tipping me!

I'm open to requests.

Little information, I will, for now, only post on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

Thank you, and Enjoy! :)

Lots of love, xxx Spicy Clover

WARNING: mention of physical and verbal aggression! Su*c*de WARNING !R@PE!

If you are struggling with this. Please get help. You are loved, and your life is valued. Even if you don’t see it, you are loved. 

DISCLAIMER:  This story is fiction and has no correlation with reality. All site names making acts, violence or any other type of aggression are used for artistic purposes, and they did not commit those acts.

“I tried, but... nobody listened to me.” You respond by looking at Lando through your tears. 

Your eyes pierce that of Lando. A rage invades the spirit of Charles seeing your sights set on the British.

“You knew.” He accuses Lando turning abruptly towards him.

“I... I.” He tries to defend himself. “I didn’t know what to do.”

“Oh, you think she knew what to do either.” He yells, getting up from his chair and grabbing him by the collar. 

“Charles, let him go!” Orders Carlos. 

“You let her suffer silently when you knew what he did to her. I thought you were better than this. T’es qu’une grosse merde.” 

“Oh please, like you would have done something? We all know he’s untouchable and has done it before.” Admitted Lando, pushing Charles away. 

“What?” Sebastian speaks up.

“Nothing.” 

“It’s nothing? He raped her, and now other girls too?” Charles advances again, preventing him from fleeing the situation.

“Don't play fouls, Charles. You were in his hotel room at the party in Abu Dhabi last year, and I quite remember your hands on some teenage girls, groping them.” He said suddenly, pushing Charles out of his way again.

“What?” You speak up, troubled by Lando's affirmation.

“It’s not what it looks like.” Charles tries, taking your hands in his.

“Don’t touch me.” You say, pushing him away. “Did you do it?”

“I... It’s not important.”

“Yes. It actually is. Did you fuck those teenage girls?” 

“Oui,” he admits in a small voice. “I didn’t want to.”

“You didn’t want to fuck those girls? What the fuck, Charles. What's wrong with you all?” You yell, taking your stuff and leaving as fast as possible. 

The thought of all this happening to so many more makes you sick. How could nobody speak up about this? The elevator arrives, and you get in. You can hear footsteps and Charles's voice telling you to come back. Tears fall down your cheeks, and you look at him as the door closes. 

You take the first taxi and give him your address. All you want right now is a shower. A warm and reassuring shower. To pull away all those memories and thoughts. You want to scream to the world. You want to smash your entire apartment down. You want to stay in bed for the rest of your life. You want to jump off the roof. You want to cut yourself so that the pain stops. 

You arrive at the complex. Your dark thought runs in circles in your head. Like a robot, you open the complex door, press the elevator, and finally unlock your apartment. You let your essentials fall on the ground with your bag and coat. Like a machine, you take your shoes off and open the lights. 

The sight of your home, which does not feel like home anymore. Since Lance pushes himself into you while you try to make him go away, this place hasn’t felt like home. You can’t even sleep in your own bed anymore. No matter how many times you clean the sheets, change the bed. This memory comes running back into your mind. Invade you like a parasite. 

You go to the bathroom and open the valve to fill the bathtub. You watch the water. You can hear your phone blowing up with notifications and calls. “Why this world has to be this cruel?” You think, taking your clothes off. 

Your body envelops itself in the heat of the water, and you close your eyes. Your body slips in the bath. You head underwater. You hear focusing on your heart bit. You enjoy this moment of quietness and solitude. 

That’s it. You feel alone since that night he took your joy, your life, yourself. 

You can feel the water pressure you to gasp for air. Your head starts popping your blood. Your heart rises to find oxygen. You struggle. You have been struggling this long. You want to go, and you want to let go. 

You let the water go in, and suddenly, all the scary parts disappear. The explosion in your head fades away, and you’re not scared anymore. You find it relatively peaceful. Very peaceful. 

To continue... 

Tag list: @tyna-19​

[ozimagines]

The Trouble with Robson…

So… I’ve seen some discourse on this site about James Robson… and I want in lol.

I’ve got a lot of thoughts about this man, and based on everything I’ve read from other Oz fans, I might have an unpopular opinion.

Please don’t get me wrong! Season 2-Season 5 he was a tremendous piece of shit. Like in every way possible it is to be a piece of shit. But that said I have two points: 1) that’s what makes him an good CHARACTER, not a good person, and 2) a redemption arc doesn’t mean that person is automatically forgiven, but are going down a better path and MIGHT be forgiven for their actions at a later date. It is with this, your honor, that I submit that Robson’s redemption arc was actually one of the better plot lines in Oz. (Please don’t hate me lol)

Okay, so Robson season two, pretty easy to characterize. He’s a Nazi. He’s violent. He’s a rapist. Very easy to hate. Season three, he’s lieutenant to Vern Schillinger in the Aryan Brotherhood. He boxes and such. In season four, he’s a menace, coming into his own character. He threatens on his own and has his own plot lines now. Season five is more of the same, at first, he rapes Peter Schibetta, he tries to ruin Beecher’s life, etc. He commits one of the more heinous of his crimes in my book when he kills the young Muslim man in the store room. A long, drawn out process that James is smiling through. He LOVES violence. More than anything he seems like he was made for prison. Then he learns about his gums, makes racist remarks to the doctor, one thing leads to another, he has black man gums and gets kicked out of the brotherhood.

He’s destitute and alone, which is all he deserves. But even Kareem Said finds pity for him and says “God is trying to teach you something. Please be smart enough to learn.”. What can even God attempt to teach someone like James Robson? He does what he needs to survive. He joins Cutler and agrees to be his prag. Here’s where some views from other Oz fans and I start to diverge. You look at videos on YouTube, many of the comments you’ll find say “good, he deserved it.”. The best argument I heard for this was actually from Funky Frog Bait on YouTube talking about misgendering murderers. Many people misgendered the nonbinary Nashville shooter. Why would you respect the pronouns for a person that horrible? Because, as Funky Frog Bait said in their video, it revolves around your opinion of gender as a whole. If you can just revoke someone’s preferred pronouns when they’re bad people, how “bad” does a trans person have to be to not have their pronouns respected? People of differing “politics” (morals) say different things, but if we apply this argument to Robson’s situation, I think it has to do with one’s overall view of rape. How “bad” does someone have to be before being raped is considered a reasonable punishment? For me, it’s never. For me, just as in never revoking someone’s right to their preferred pronouns, I also think it’s never justifiable to rape someone. So, no, I don’t think Robson deserved to be raped, even though he was a serial rapist himself, because there’s no situation where I think rape is a justifiable response. People may disagree with me, but I think it’s a slippery slope when you can deem someone as deserving of rape.

We learn during this time, as he’s being beaten and abused sexually by Cutler, that James was beaten and abused by his father as a kid. He confirms that this occurred while he was only five years old. His first introduction to life and sex was violence. Maybe this gives you sympathy for him, as it did me, but maybe you say fuck him, it doesn’t excuse anything. But I don’t think that it was meant to be an excuse, I think it was meant to be an EXPLANATION. I think we were learning how he became James Robson of unit B, not justifying his actions as James Robson of unit B. He was a child and the person he was supposed to trust most in this world gave him very harsh lessons very early on: no one cares about you, and do what you need to do to survive. He becomes demure and pitiful in Sister Pete’s office. One line that stuck with me was “here I am, 35 years old and I have nowhere to run.”. He’s been running his whole life. Running away from an abusive father and running away from his own actions. “I shame to think of what I’ve done. Look on it again, I dare not.” Is Cutler’s line as MacBeth in the play. It is an apt line for James. He’s been running from his own actions for as long as he could remember. Like I said, none of this justifies the lives he’s ruined and taken, but it does explain the inter-workings of a character that was pretty static for four seasons. That he survives. He tells Sister Peter Marie that all he does is run from things. I truly believe that some of the reason he was able to be as ruthless as he was is because he doesn’t let himself think about his own actions.

Finally season 6! He kills Cutler with some kinky play, joins the brotherhood, and it seems like he’s back, right? Only when he sees his wife, we see some of the shame come back. Some of the embarrassment of being taken in that way. If he feels this way now, he felt this way for however long his dad was abusing him. He loses it with her for calling him a “cock sucker”, which CLEARLY he’s embarrassed/ashamed about. He hurts her, and immediately, instantly, feels bad about it. I love learning the morality of immoral characters. With everything he’s done, why was hurting his wife crossing a line? Because she trusts him, just like little James trusted his dad. I think, personally, that he sees himself as her personal protector. Since he couldn’t protect himself, he became the protector for her, and then for Vern, but James isn’t stupid enough to think Vern can’t take care of himself. I think hurting his wife tore him up so much because he remembers when he relied on his dad for everything, and his father took advantage of his state.

Then he finds out he has AIDS. He joins a support group for rape survivors. They talk about their experiences and James listens to all of them. He thanks them towards the end, saying it was good to “hear it from both sides” which we know is something he knew already since he was at least five. But hearing those stories, all of which are upsetting but some are straight gruesome, puts FORCES him to face his actions. He can’t run anymore, his lifestyle caught up with him. Am I saying he deserves AIDS? 🤷‍♀️ Chissà. Who’s to say? He has it though. There’s a deleted scene where he lets Clarence rape him (I understand “lets” and “rape” don’t make much sense together but I don’t think coerced consent is consent at all so it’s still assault), and it gives Clarence AIDS. Robson says something interesting, with his classic smile on his face. “Retribution. It’s all about retribution.”. That’s what Oz is about. Retribution. It should be about Rehabilitation, but it’s all about Retribution. This is where James’ story ends on the show. With him moving to unit F, the AIDS unit. Finally, even if only physically, is he forced to face his actions.

This is why I think his story was beautifully written. He’s just a meathead in the beginning, but we learn about his morality -because he does have a code, even if it’s not a good one-, his past, and his future. They took a character that was frankly very flat and gave us a wide enough view on his life and character to confuse our anger into sympathy into more anger and into sadness. I don’t know if anyone else felt this way but my heart just dropped when he mentioned his dad. James Robson never stood a chance. He was a monster in training since he was five. But no one deserves to be raped. (A good reference is Adam Gunzel who was a BIG prick… but never deserved that shit.) Anyway these are just some of my thoughts on one of the most interesting characters in Oz (to me at least) and gave us an actual character out of a plotless muscle man.

One thing I think we can all agree on:

Retribution. It’s all about retribution.

[nalyra-dreaming]

No criticism or offense, just my honest opinion. I think too much is made from that one quote of Hannah's interview. She never said Lestat is "pure evil" or randomly commits acts of violence without any reason or remorse. But rape is violent and bad, no matter the context. I don't think 1x05 was added for shock value but fits into a larger narrative (and was always meant to be revisited which Hannah couldn't say yet at the time of the interview). It is different than in the books, so I get it why people are upset. But this is the story they are telling in the show. The fight in 1x05 is not a random act of pure evil intention, but has context. I think Akasha's blood will also play a role here. And tbh Lestat did a lot of bad things in book 1, which was more emotionally manipulative, but I don't think that is "morally better" than physical violence. Lestat will get all his nuance in s3 and further. He already has more nuance in the show than in book 1. I'm sad to see Hannah constantly criticized over one thing, while she is such an amazing writer and we are lucky to have her. This is just my opinion, everyone is free to disagree of course.

All good.

That is why I say it was a “season one current“ statement. I also expect Akasha’s blood and Amel (actually) to play a big part in further reveals of that fight, something which might be in s3 and s4 actually (bit by bit).

This is a touchy subject. I did say in the other ask (the one before) that she also wrote other scenes (and I posted other asks where I commented on that as well), she is a great writer! I do get why that quote would make people (including me) uneasy though.

The future will tell :)) Even bringing up the possibility of there being more to this than just Lestat being “abusive and evil“ got me labeled as abuse apologist after s1. No matter the clues we already got. Emotions are very high on this subject and some proverbial wounds have been festering (and those wounds were intentional by the show!). And then there’s Sam, sneaking in lines, and having long, long calls on the subject of Lestat and Levan asking if he’s just “evil“ (after supposedly having read the books?!) So… More nuance? Maybe. But what kind of nuance^^

I know… they are trying very hard not to give the whole game away ^^ But it all comes together rather… messily, especially fandom-wise.

Again, as said in the other ask, I‘m happy to be proven wrong.

I hope I am :)

[got-into-worm-by-mistake]

Interlude 15.x Live Reactions

(This is going to be a very - no, insanely - long post)

As I noted, after this I'll be trying (ha!) to read faster, and on my phone more so I can just get this done.

This is gonna be an interesting read. Purportedly, after all, this is where we're supposed to get the idea that Amy raped Vicky. Though supposedly Wildbow had to do a line by line analysis to make that point on reddit (which I have not read) and I feel like if you have to do that for something like rape, you've kind of failed your task as a writer, at least in terms of conveying what you meant.

I wish, even more than usual, I could be coming into this fully blind but I'm not. I know the 'official' interpretation of this scene is rape, and that the text of the sequel makes it canonical that Amy raped Vicky here, but I also know large numbers of people never got that take, and Wildbow somehow spent years not noticing massive swaths of his readership didn't realize rape had happened... supposedly.

We'll see if I come away convinced that rape is the best reading that can be constructed from this scene, though from what I gather, it's more that a rape reading in this scene feels wildly out of place with all of Amy's other stuff.

It's certainly hard to reconcile the Amy we just saw in Arc 14 with Raping Vicky, though 14.10 makes it not impossible.

Of course, since I'm not coming in blind - I'm aware of the official version, and I've seen some people make the arguments in support of that reading and I've seen a bunch of arguments against that reading, etc - it's not like that all won't be hanging over all of this.

And the thing is, on a certain level, it doesn't actually matter. In the context of the universe itself, it certainly matters, but from the perspective of all these characters not actually existing in the real world, it doesn't really much matter to me.

On the level of Amy's actions: What she does do to Vicky that everyone agreed on (changing her brain, then mind controlling her in 14.6 and 14.10, not immediately removing the 'love me' change from Vicky's brain, wretching her - intentionally or accidentally or a mix or w/e - and not fixing her brain at any point there, and so on) is a gross and horrifying betrayal and a deep, deep violation of Vicky's mental and bodily autonomy. Making actual, real rape a thing that happened here as well is just icing on a cake, really, in a lot of ways, in the context of Worm. (Ward can and will be safely ignored for the rest of this post - in just a moment anyway)

For another, while it appears a lot of readers and fans did turn on Amy - her popularity in the fandom and in fics and stuff purportedly took a bit of a nosedive after the rape was made clear in Ward and in Wildbow's various WoG, though apparently there were still people who read Ward and missed that rape was made clear (Maybe use the word? Apparently Wildbow doesn't even use that word in Ward), it wouldn't actually change much for me.

(Now ignoring Ward)

See, some of my favorite fictional characters have comitted rape.

Damon Salvatore? Mass murderer and... though the narrative doesn't really linger on it, he rapes Caroline Forbes in early Season 1, and his girlfriend that he gets at the end of S2 (I think) and is dating in early S3 is a relationship so full of Compulsion (mind control ability vampires have in TVD verse) that it's moved well past dubcon, I'd say. And there's probably other shit like that in the man's past. Again, the narrative doesn't linger, but it's fucking rape. Still love Damon, amazing character, my trash son, but yeah, committed rape. Absolute monster, by any reasonable standard.

Regina Mills - again, mass murderer, tyrant, and... at the very least, she raped the Huntsman for possibly up to 38 years. (Again, it's never clearly stated, but she ripped out his heart - which in OUAT verse is a thing dark magic allows that lets the holder of the hard dictate commands to the person and also just kill them if they crush it - and then commanded her guards to bring him to her chambers. Ten years later, she casts the dark curse, and the Huntsman's cursed persona is having sex with her about once a week, at least, for the next 28 years, though given the nature of the curse, only Regina and later her son Henry are aware of the passage of time.) Regina is my favorite OUAT character, has an amazing redemption arc, and is unquestionably a hero to the point where she's crowned the 'Good Queen' in the series finale by Snow White (i.e. the girl she became evil while chasing revenge on). The narrative doesn't really linger on it, I'm not even sure the writers quite realized that it was rape, but I never believed it anything else. Still love her, because she and the Huntsman are both entirely fictional. Not real people.

On BtVS, Faith attempts to rape Xander, and basically does rape Riley while in Buffy's body (Riley is Buffy's boyfriend and thinks it's Buffy he's having sex with. Also she also effectively rapes Buffy by having sex with Riley while in control of her body). I still love her, one of my favorite characters. Again, the narrative doesn't really linger on this (the show in general has a bad habit of not lingering on female-on-male sexual violence or sexual harrassment).

Also on BtVS, Willow wipes her girlfriend's (Tara) memory so she forgets a pretty serious argument they were having, and then they have sex the next day, which Tara would probably not have had if she was still angry with Willow. While the show never calls it rape, I and large parts of the fandom consider it as such. (Tara never calls it rape either, though she is incredibly furious with Willow when she finds out, and they break up - and then get back together 12 episodes later, buuut :shrug) Still big fan of Willow, Tara/Willow is still the biggest ship for willow and one of the largest ships in the fandom.

Now, it's true that in all four cases, the writers either didn't realize it was rape, or didn't care and never really address it, but the key point is that I am perfectly capable of being a huge fan of Amy and wanting to see her redeemed/get better/etc (which I am and do) and accepting that she committed rape. So it's not like I'm going to just insistently refuse to see rape

Now, apparently part of the argument against the 'rape happened' reading is also how 15.x fits into the rest of the work, both before, and after, with regards to the fact that (apparently) Amy doesn't really talk about Vicky with any sort of sexual element, just a worshipful adoration, etc, (and the fact that rape never comes up and so forth) which I won't know until I get that far. But again, it is worth noting that large numbers of people didn't get rape as the intended reading, which again, seems like a pretty big detail to fail to convey to the reader. It's worth nothing that the comments for 15.x on the actual worm website mention 'mindrape' and that it felt 'rapey' but not 'rape' full on.

Now, with a much larger preface than intended, let's actually read this godforesaken Interlude.

Actually, having done the live reaction below, I'm gonna put it all below a readmore

Some of that was fatigue, some of it was hunger, some was thirst.  She had no idea how much time had passed.  She might have been able to guess from her period, but her body had decided such would be a waste of precious resources.  It hadn’t come, and she had no idea how many weeks or months it had been.

You only keep a Kidnap victim for weeks or months if you think there's a chance of a ransom. The fact that Carol's parents refused to just fucking pay the goddamn ransom for that long says a lot about how shit they were. Carol absolutely sucks as a mother, but she did have a pretty shitty starting point (though, somehow, somehow, Sarah managed to be at least halfway decent, so Carol could have come out better, but now I'm trying to compare traumas here and that's pretty sucky, but remember this is a Carol Dallon Hate Blog)

“Amy has always insisted she couldn’t heal brain injuries.” Alan winced.  “I see.  The worst sort of luck.” Carol smiled, but it wasn’t a happy expression.  “So imagine my surprise when, after weeks of taking care of my husband, wiping food from his face, giving him baths, supporting him as he walked from the bedroom to the bathroom, Amy decides she’ll heal him after all.”

Love how she just glosses over the part where Bonesaw actively did even more, possibly eventually fatal, damage to Mark's brain. Even when she does Mention Bonesaw invading the house below, she doesn't mention that part.

I feel like Mark would be able to mention that, so I'm sure Carol is just conviently ignoring the part where Amy was faced with 'Mark fucking dies if I don't break my rule'

“Oh, I imagine she was.  Victoria went looking for her after she ran away, returned home empty-handed.  I think she was even more upset than I was, with Amy taking so long to heal Mark.  She was almost inarticulate, she was so angry.”

So that would suggest that at least at first Vicky doesn't tell Carol what Amy did to her. Which would fit with Vicky saying she hadn't told anyone back in the early parts of Arc 14 (don't remember which chapter she said it) but the context could have just meant 'didn't tell the Protectorate/PRT' Though, it does still leave the open question: Amy was running around the city for fucking DAYS, a week possibly? between Interlude 11h and when she shows up in Arc 14.2 or 14.3. Did Carol even look for her? Why isn't she looking fucking now? She's your daughter, right, and Slaughterhouse Nine is looking for her too?

Is Sarah looking? Mark? Crystal?

Even if you don't love her or care about her, you shouldn't want S9 to have ahold of her, so maybe look for her rather than FUCKING FILE PAPERWORK?!

Carol fidgeted.  “Oh, that wasn’t even the worst of it.  Victoria’s been flirting with the notion of joining the Wards, and she went out to fight the Nine just a few days ago.  Apparently she was critically injured.  She was carried off for medical care and nobody’s seen her since.”

Ah, so this is now happening post-S9 leaving the city (though there's still no mention of Carol looking for her) and she's... not even looking for Vicky?

Like, okay, big city, might not be able to find her, but I feel like if I had a kid that I purportedly loved (as Carol does supposedly at least love Vicky, in her own horrible abusive sort of way) and said kid was missing and I had superpowers making it safe to go looking, I would be looking, damn the goddamn paperwork.

This woman just can't actively not suck.

Also, of all the people to be talking about this to, why the fuck is it Alan Barnes. Just a weird character to use for this. Is it supposed to be a juxtaposition - Carol was a neglectful bitch and Alan a too supportive parent and both ended up screwing their kids up?

“Or dead,” Carol said.  She blinked a few times in rapid succession, fighting the need to cry.  “I don’t know.  I was patrolling, searching, and I felt my composure start to slip.  I feel like shit for doing it, but I came here, I thought maybe if I took fifteen minutes or half an hour to center myself, I could be ready to start searching again.”

Okay, so there's that, so she was looking and just (understandably) needed a moment, but again - did you look for Amy at all earlier? Did fucking anyone? Somehow no member of New Wave actually showed up anywhere during Arcs 12 or 13 or 14, apart from Amy and Vicky.

He’d tried to attack them?  Carol couldn’t understand it.  He was the one who’d taken care of them.  When he’d appeared, she’d been happy.  And now it felt like that had been ruined, spoiled. She felt betrayed and she couldn’t understand why.

Stockholm Syndrome is a hell of a drug. But trigger trauma isn't much of an excuse, Carol, really fucking isn't.

“We didn’t know where you were.  But let’s not fight again.  The important thing is that Tattletale pointed us in the right direction.  We think we know where your daughters are.” Daughters?  Plural? Carol couldn’t put a name to the feeling that had just sucker-punched her.

Right, because with what little you know about the situation, you shouldn't actually have much reason to be that worried.

Technically, you're right this time, which I really kind of hate on the 'Carol Sucks' level of my personality, but you have no valid basis, because your paranoia was not actually well-founded.

The Brockton Bay Brigade closed in on the man who stood by his leather armchair, wearing a black silk bathrobe.  He held his ground. “If you’ll allow me to finish my wine-” he started, bending down to reach for the wine glass that sat beside the armchair.

Marquis really is the textbook fucking definition of classy, isn't he? :rofl:

 It meant she didn’t fall on her rear end, and she could pick a more appropriate posture as she snapped back into her human shape.

I mean, falling on your ass in a fight is just bad from a tactical standpoint, but also, I mean, you can't go losing style points, right?

The needles retracted.  Marquis rolled his shoulders, as if loosening his muscles.  “Broke your foot?  How clumsy.”

If nothing else, he's fun.

Well, only in a sense.  They still hadn’t touched him, and two of their members were out of commission.  Three, if she counted Fleur being occupied with a wounded Lightstar in her arms.

And so let's use his child against him! Great move!

Let's invade someone's home without checking to see if there's any innocents around! GREAT PLAN!

Was he distracted?

Maybe ask yourself why.

Though, I will say - Marquis didn't have to play Coy. He quite literally could have just said 'my daughter's in that closet'. They might not have believed him, but it wouldn't have been hard to show them.

I'm not saying I don't get why he didn't, but technically Marquis didn't make the most optimal choice here.

But that... happens.

“Careful now,” Marquis chided her.  “Don’t want to get decapitated now, do we?”

*giggle*

Instead, she turned and charged for the closet, creating a sword out of the crackling energy her power provided, slashing through the plates of bone that had surrounded it, then drawing the blade back to thrust through the wooden door-

I dunno. I know it's Amy - we all know it's Amy, at this point, even people reading Blind - and we're inclined to dislike Carol anyway at this point, again, even people reading Blind, I assume - but this just seems incredibly foolish.

Like, I guess maybe leaping straight to 'there's a kid there' might be a bitch much, and Carol in particular probably would have a hard time imagining Marquis as caring about another person because she's projected her issues with her kidnapper onto him for... reasons, but I mean, he could have a wife (or husband, I suppose) or girlfriend or all manner of things in there you may not want to hurt, and like... I dunno, I'd at least fucking open the closet before swinging in there? Maybe?

Fic idea - Marquis is a little too slow, but instead of killing her (I have read one fic where that happened. Marquis, understandably, kills Carol right after) he like, maims Amelia or something, cuts off her arm, or gives her a major scar or something.

That could be a really interesting story. Especially if Marquis still gets beaten, or Carol gets away and has to look at her daughter after having done that.

(I may hate Carol, but I can't imagine she'd be blithe about having maimed an innocent child, even Marquis kid, in the middle of a fight.)

*ads the fic idea to the list, which won't stop growing*

She stared down at him.  That long hair, it was such a minor thing, but there was something else about him that stirred that distant, dark memory of the lightless room and the failed attempt at ransom.  Her skin crawled, and she felt anger boiling in her gut.

This is so insane and then you take that projection and add a second layer onto Amy and like what the ABSOLUTE FUCK is wrong with you sick little woman?

“What were you so intent on protecting?” Manpower asked.  “This where you stash your illegitimate gains?”

Because Marquis didn't just say he didn't really care if they destroyed his expensive home a few minutes ago. Jesus Christ Manpower really is a dumb brute, isn't he?

“Her mother’s gone, I’m afraid.  The big C.  Amelia and I were introduced shortly after that.  About a year ago, now that I think on it.  I must admit, I’ve enjoyed our time together more than I’ve enjoyed all my crimes combined.  Quite surprising.”

Is that actually a thing anyone does? Or ever did? Is that a Canadian thing? Or a new england slang? 90s Lingo? I feel like no one has ever called Cancer 'The Big C' before.

That feels like something a writer - not necessarily Wildbow - invented and people just ran with even though it wasn't actually a thing people did.

If Marquis had realized how fucking terribly Carol would have raised Amy, I have to imagine he'd have settled for foster care instead. :rofl:

The idea disturbed her.

Why? Maybe get some fucking therapy for that, bitch? Seriously.

WHY THE FUCK DOES THIS DISTURB YOU?!

Maybe ask yourself that question?! But then, I suppose if you were capable of a single iota of self-examination, you would not have been such a shit mother and indeed, shit human.

That cultured act, the civility that was real.  Marquis was fair, he played by the rules.  His rules, but he stuck to them without fail.  It didn’t match her vision of what a criminal should be.  It was jarring, creating a kind of dissonance. That dissonance was redoubled as she looked at the forlorn little girl.  Layers upon layers, distilled in one expression.  Criminal, civilized man, child.

Right, and how dare something not line up with your view of the world? How DARE?! Surely the problem is with the thing, and not you?! SURELY!

“Then you take care of her,” Brandish replied, even as she mentally prayed her sister would refuse.  There was something about the idea of being around Marquis’ child, that uncanny resemblance, having those memories stirred even once in a while, even if it was just at family reunions… it made her feel uneasy.

*shakes head* jesus christ.

I wonder what Amy Pelham's relationship with Aunt Carol would have been like. A lot of 'why doesn't Aunt Carol like me?' I imagine. Which might have led to Sarah berating Carol into getting help sooner, because I can't imagine Sarah wouldn't have loved her daughter Amy as much as Eric and Crystal.

Though who knows. May just be grass is greener.

“You should.  Amelia’s Vicky’s age, I think they would be close.”

*nervous, awkward, darkly ironic laughter*

“I’m sorry to bring it up,” Brandish said. “But it’s relevant.  I decided I could have Vicky because I’d know her from day one.  She’d grow inside me, I’d nurture her from childhood… she’d be safe.”

And you did a bang up job with her! Two thumbs up! /s

“That child deserves better than I can offer.  I know I don’t have it in me to form any kind of bond with another child if there’s no blood relation.” Especially if she’s Marquis’. “She needs you.  You’re her only option.  I can’t, and Fleur and Lightstar aren’t old enough or in the right place in their lives for kids, and if she goes anywhere else, it’ll be disastrous.”

I can't believe I'm saying this, but: Sarah, Sarah, look at me.

Listen to Carol. For once in her life, she's actually right about something.

Look at me Sarah. Listen to your sister.

You could grow to love and trust that little girl, too.”

Truth is, she probably could have, but it would have required Carol getting over herself, and that, as it turns out, was borderline impossible.

I don't believe it would have been completely impossible - people always have a choice - and that's why, at the end of the day, I will never let sympathy for Carol rise beyond the barest of minimums, because she had a responsibility to be better, to get better, not just for Amy, but for Vicky, and she didn't, and so again, This Is A Carol Dallon Hate Blog.

Was the girl in shock?  Carol couldn’t muster any sympathy.  Amy was stopping her from getting to Victoria.  Victoria, who she’d almost believed was dead.

See, this is just...

I mean, I'm glad Carol didn't kill Amy here, but Carol has not even an iota of concern for Amy, and yet, once she sees the state of Victoria and supposedly finds out that Amy raped Victoria, she suddenly has enough sympathy for Amy to not kill her?

I -

Seriously. Absolute bizzaro world shit here, Wildbow.

“So I thought I’d put her in a trance, and make it so she’d forget everything that happened.  Everything that I did, and the things that the Slaughterhouse Nine said, and everything that I said to try to make them go away.  Empty promises and-“

Okay, so like, you can Amy's lying here, but all we have to go on is what she says, you know? If Wildbow wanted us to get the takeway that Amy's lying here, he kind of needs to make that more clear.

Like, far from done, and I am kind of biased against WB at this point, to say the least, but it's just really fucking hard for me to see this girl acting like this if she just raped her sister.

I mean, really, man, if that really was your intent, you did a REALLY bad job of conveying it, and when you fail as a writer you don't fucking take that out on the readers.

(Right, sorry, I said I was ignoring Ward. Back to doing that)

She could never be my daughter because she’d never stopped being his.

She doesn't even remember him, you crazy psycho!

Amy kept talking, her voice strangely monotone after her earlier emotion, as if she were a recording.  Maybe she was, after a fashion, all of the excuses and arguments she’d planned spilling from her mouth.  “I wanted her to be happy.  I could adjust.  Tweak, expand, change things to serve more than one purpose.  I had the extra material from the cocoon.  When I was done, I started undoing everything, all the mental and physical changes.  I got so tired, and so scared, so lonely, so I thought we’d take another break, before I was completely finished.  I changed more things.  More stuff I had to fix.  And days passed.  I-“

I'm having trouble seeing it. I really am.

I get that we're supposed to see 'break' as like... Amy raping her or something but -

But that -

no.

 It might even have been something objectively beautiful, had it not been warped by desperation and loneliness and panic.

Everything about this scene just paints Amy as pathetic and pitiable. She really is a sopping wet poor little meow meow here.

I'm not saying a rapist can't also be pitiable - someone can be victim and victimizer, of course they can - but if you want the pitiable character to be seen as a rapist, or, you know, hated, for what they did -

Especially when it's from fucking Carol's POV, and Wildbow just got done explaining how little regard Carol actually has for Amy, how she has no sympathy for the girl and everything.

If there's any POV that should not be painting Amy as pitiable, but as the rapist we're supposed to believe she is, it's Carol's right?

Then I’d go and spend the rest of my life healing people.  Sacrifice my life.  I don’t know.  As payment.”

Wildbow makes the most woobifiable character in the world, and then gets self-righteous when people woobify her.

News at 11.

And with everything laid bare, there was not a single resemblance to Marquis.  There was no faint reminder of Brandish’s time in the dark cell, nor of her captor.  If anything, Amy looked how Sarah had, as they’d stumbled from the house where they’d been kept, lost, helpless and scared. She looked like Carol had, all those years ago. The weapon dissipated, and Brandish’s arms dropped limp to her sides.

All this does is make Carol look narcissistic in the weirdest and worst way. She can only give a shit about someone who reminds her of... her?

But I mean, the whole reason she supposedly loved Vicky is because Vicky came from her, so she should have that take priority over...

I'm sorry. I'm just not seeing it. I'm not -

And Carol's actions here, even with the 'she looked like carol had' just...

No. This is weird. This is confusing. This is nonsensical. And I'm sure as shit not getting a 'Amy Raped Vicky' takeaway here.

Even allowing for Jack's comment about 'indulging' in 14.10. When Amy didn't agree or anything, and Jack would have no way to know what Amy did or didn't do when he wrote that letter we see in 14.11.

Like, if I squint and force myself to twist my brain into nots I can... pretend I can see it... but even then...

I mean, maybe Amy's lying, and characters lie and misrepresent and so on, true, but unless the text gives us a good reason to believe they are, which it hasn't yet...

I mean, it's the official version, the official narrative, that it's Rape. That's the WoG. And like...

Even if I didn't have my, admittedly largely unfounded, suspicions that Wildbow is just flat out lying about his original intent or meaning, I do believe that WoG should be an enhancement to and addition to the text, not a direct contradiction.

It really does seem like WB ended up falling into the trap of figuring he could just let his WoG paper over mistakes in his writing rather than getting it right the first time?

Carol stared as Amy shuffled forward.  The cuffs weren’t necessary, really.  A formality.  Amy wasn’t about to run.

I mean, this is another thing I don't get. Amy haters harp on Amy 'running away from responsibility/consequences' but I mean... quietly going to the Birdcage, an unaccountable black box of a prison where (IIRC from what I've heard) 2/3s of the prisoners ended up dying by the time of the breakout is sort of the opposite of running away?

I mean, Amy should have fixed Vicky before going, this is true, but it seems clear she wasn't sure she could, and would Carol and Sarah have even let her?

As if she could convey everything she wanted to say in a single gesture, she folded her daughter into the tightest of hugs.

I -

I mean, I suppose stranger things have happened, but of all the times to actually suddenly start giving a shit about Amy, it's here and now?

Yeah, I can't reconcile this with Wildbow's official narrative of things.

“Victoria is gone.  There’s nothing of her left but that mockery. 

Yeah, okay, back to Carol just sucking 100%. That's more familiar ground.

The day I cease seeing her as his daughter and see how she could be mine, he takes her back, she thought.

Well, no one to blame but yourself, Carol.

Yeah, my official verdict is: if this is supposed to be the scene that convinces the reader Amy raped Victoria, then...

Yeah, I'm not seeing it. I'm not seeing anything that makes that implied even with a tortured reading. Even with the most hostile reading, I don't -

I don't see it. I really don't. I'm trying to have as open a mind as possible, I tried to look for it -

This isn't me questioning a victim in the 'was it really rape' way or whatever, I'm questioning whether the writing of a scene conveys the idea that one character committed the physical/sexual act of rape on another, and this scene does not. Maybe there's another scene later on (In Worm) that will convince me, but...

This one sure doesn't.

[hindulivesmatter]

Honestly it feels like some people are so afraid of criticizing anything that has to do with Islam/Muslims. I actually do understand, Muslims and Islam as a religion have been unjustly accused and have faced a lot of discrimination for things that weren't their fault, and Islamophobia is a really big issue, but swinging the other way and stopping people from criticizing Islamic imperialism at all isn't the answer either. We aren't criticizing Islam/Muslims in general, and of course they have a place in India, but that also doesn't change the reality of the genocides Hindus in Kashmir have faced and continue to face at the hands of self-proclaimed Islamic terrorist groups.

And I am actually someone who believes Modi isn't blameless, and I actually do agree with the things said about him by the left. I do think the Indian army is committing atrocities in Kashmir, and I don't approve of his actions. But acting like he's the only problem and that we don't have any threat from Islamic terrorists is also wrong. We've heard their chants, the 7 genocides they committed, all the people who were killed/forced to flee/converted. And yet, even as we reclaim our stolen land and our stolen culture, as we are finally getting back our temple in Ayodhya, people are quick to dismiss it as Islamophobia or anti-Muslim sentiment, instead of seeing it as the reclamation of our history and our culture from colonization.

They want to deny our suffering by saying that the colonizers improved India, that Hindus and Muslims always coexisted peacefully. And I am all for peaceful co-existence, but denying the people who were killed, the women who were raped and killed by Islamic invaders who declared openly that it was their holy mission to kill Hindus is so grossly invalidating and just makes me think that some people care more about appeasing the crowd than actually caring about what really happened. Islamophobia is real, of course, but denying history and the real threat of terrorists isn't the answer.

Sorry to leave this in your inbox. I don't always agree with you, but I appreciate your posts.

I feel like you just needed a good vent, lol. It's alright. We don't always need to see eye to eye on things. It's one of the main reasons I don't go on blocking sprees, like the people who hate me. If you agree with me, awesome. If you don't, it's fine. It really doesn't matter to me. You had a lot of good talking points in your asks, I appreciate you dropping them here. :)

[vyrid]

The way Tom Riddle Jr. was conceived never sat right with me. It has so many plot holes, things that don't add up, and it sounds pretty aggressive towards people who are born under the influence of rape.

In the 6th book, Dumbledore says that Merope used the love potion on Tom Riddle Sr. so that they would be together, and she got pregnant along the way. She stopped the usage of Amortentia when she found out she was with child in hopes that Tom Riddle Jr's birth would make Sr. love her. Instead of loving her, Sr was horrified and ran away from her, leaving her pregnant and broke. He was traumatized from being raped and therefore didn't want anything to have to do with his son.

I don't like Dumbledore's theory. I hate it, actually. Because it doesn't make any sense. We can see from the memories Harry and him go through that Merope was practically a squib and had only a drop of magic in her. She could barely wave around her wand, for God's sake! How the hell would a woman as weak as her make Amortentia not once but multiple times? You need to be decent at magic to even attempt to make the love potion. Her drugging Tom Riddle Sr. suggests that she was a powerful witch, but she clearly isn't, as shown in Gaunt House.

Even if she didn't make the potion herself, there is no way that she bought it either considering she was dirt poor and Amortentia, being the strongest love potion and all, was probably very expensive.

It would have made more sense for Tom Riddle Sr. to dump Merope when he found out she was a witch. Merope would have thought that since she was with a child, Sr. would have mercy and try to look at the situation with a cool head. But he left her, and probably never went looking for Tom Jr. because he would be "freaky" like Merope, too.

It would make a lot of sense for Tom to hate muggle's with such a passion, too, because his own father made his life hell because he hated him for having magic. It makes the whole situation seem like more muggles ruined my life, so I'll ruin theirs instead of I'm a hopeless bully simply hungry for power. It would make the impact of what Voldemort became so much stronger, instead of the usual pure-evil for no reason cliche.

And Tom Riddle killing Sr. would have hit so much different, knowing that Tom knew that Sr. hated him because he was a wizard, just like everyone else in his life (Mrs. Cole, the kids at the orphanage.) Tom wouldn't care for Merope enough to commit murder, no matter how much of a psychopath that he was. But somebody insulting him for who he was? Now that would have done it.

People say that her using the potion was necessary because of Voldemort not being able to love, but I have a lot of things to say about this and none of it is friendly. Claiming that since he was a product of loveless intercourse, he in turn didn't have what it was needed to love another is blasphemy. Children born from rape can't love? What? Yes, it is true that kids born of rape are more likely to be anxious and have anxiety and be more detached than other kids, but they are humans, too. They can and have the right to love, too.

If she wanted to make Voldemort loveless so badly, she could have given him a personality disorder or simply made him aromantic. Depersonalization disorder, borderline personality disorder, or emotional detachment all make it really hard to form healthy relationships with other people. Sarah, an actress with depersonalization disorder, said on BBC news that, "I was unable to love." Something along those lines could have been easily fitted into the story instead of attacking kids born from rape.

If that didn't fit into anything J.K.R could do, she could have just used the excuse of him being a psychopath and not caring for love, or having the time to think about it, because he believed himself superior to anyone else, even in the love department.

She could have done so much with Tom Riddle, instead of making him exactly like all the other baseless villains, and she wasted the opportunity. Anyway, she says that Dumbledore thought that was a theory anyway, so I'm going to continue believing what I said above as canon because nowhere in the book actually confirmed that Dumbledore was right and I don't trust Rowling outside of the series.

Very disappointed, Joanne. 👎

[rentedvsl]

honest question: do you believe that people who have raped children should be forgiven? i just cant believe the idea that God would want me to "forgive" someone who hurt me like that multiple times throughout my childhood. i can forgive all the sins committed against me except that one, because that one is just... so much worse than anyone else understands.

sorry if this question is more than you can handle. i saw a post where you talked about God wanting us to forgive, and i just honestly want to know, do you think people who have raped children should be forgiven for what they have done?

Hi there! Thank you for asking this question, as heavy as it may be. This is definitely a difficult topic.

Mark‬ ‭11‬:‭25‬ says, “And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”

According to God's word, we are called to forgiveness. That includes the things that feel impossible to forgive or the things we feel don't deserve to be forgiven. People treated Jesus in corrupt and immoral ways while He was here on earth as a man. Things happened to Him that He did not deserve in any shape or form. They beat him, mocked him, flogged and tortured Him... He was stripped bare of his humanity and dignity as they cast lots for his clothing & degraded Him in every way that they could. These men were wicked. They were unaware of how corrupted they had really become, they were slaves to their own evil thoughts. When they hung Him on that cross, Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing..." Luke‬ ‭23‬:‭34‬ ‭

‭‭God does not agree with what happened to you. He does not condone it or want to brush it to the side and ignore it. In the Bible when Lazarus died, we see that Jesus wept, even though he knew Lazarus would raise from the dead & was already aware of the eventual good outcome. But when Jesus sees the people weeping, he is described as “deeply disturbed in spirit.” Your pain, your hurt, your mourning... it moves the Lord & he weeps with you. He understands. He knows why you're angry and broken from what happened. He doesn't blame you... He wants to heal you.

Forgiveness doesn't mean that we stop hurting completely. Forgiveness doesn't mean that we no longer feel angry, or no longer question why things happened, or feel broken and bitter from it. We are human. Forgiveness is the act of releasing someone from the debt of their sin against you, meaning you no longer hold it against them. Forgiveness says, "i acknowledge this and the pain it caused. but like my Father did on the cross, i choose mercy. i release you."

Forgiveness is just as much for you as it is for your debtor. Matter of fact, I think you will find it is actually far more powerful for you than them. What happened to you was intended for harm, but God is a great redeemer. He wants to transform your suffering into glory, your mourning into dancing; take whats broken & make it beautiful. (Gen. 50:20). He longs to hold you, heal you, hear you.

The idea of forgiving this person may feel overwhelming, incorrect, or even impossible. But take heart, what is impossible with man is possible with God. (Luke‬ ‭18‬:‭27‬). Under the wings of the Lord you will find refuge. He will restore parts of you that you thought you may have lost forever.

Anon, you will be in my prayers. Please don't hesitate to reach out for anything & know that you are abundantly loved.

[doll-elvis]

I AGREE SO MUCH ABOUT CHILD BRIDE. i went into it knowing nothing about the author, and in the forward shes really emphasizing how crazily obsessed she was with priscilla so i guess i was expecting it to be a sympathetic view of her😭 definitely not. what is suzzanes problem dear lord. shes so convinced and desperate to tell you that priscilla was some evil teenaged succubus out for rockstar blood. jesus christ. like girl even if she actually was who gives a shit????? same goes for currie grant. i dont care if he showed the author concrete evidence on a golden platter that he was telling the truth. hes just such an obvious sleazeball. just disgusting……. and she dedicates like 300 chapters to him saying over and over again that he fucked 14yo priscilla and that she was into it. babe they couldve had a steamy decade-long affair and NOBODY would care because he is literally just some random creep ass loser 13 years older than her. and when it comes to his attempted rape of her hes literally like “no i didnt try to rape her i just [decribes attempting to rape her]”. i really dont know suzzanes backstory but she is insane.

but uh. anyways that aside i did enjoy parts of the book for the more in depth view of the story. like suzzanne has such intense bias that really shows throughout but even with that it was still a great way to understand some of the situations a little better… i wish elvis and me was a little more detailed but i can appreciate how and why it is. and i am strangely curious about the actual nature of priscilla and curries relationship (i dont think they ever had consensual sex but i do believe he attacked her before elvis left germany and that leaves me curious as to why she still hung around him afterwards... i.e. those pictures of her to send to elvis that he took)

sorry for the huge wall of text im just.... very .. intrigued? by the book? its just so bizarre and raises a lot of questions lol.

“Currie’s like “No I didn’t try to r*pe her I just [describes atttempting to r*pe her]”

YES THANK YOU!!

if I could, in my own words, summarize the transcript of the conversation between Priscilla & Currie it would be this ⬇️

Currie: I didn’t r*pe you

Priscilla: You forced yourself on me

Currie: I didn’t force anything, you just weren’t into it

Priscilla: So you didn’t try to kiss me?

Currie: Well yeah I was trying to kiss you, you just wouldn’t kiss me back. You were very cold

again that was just my own words so not the actual transcript but that is exactly what I got out of that conversation- which is Currie denying he forced anything on her while simultaneously describing just how unresponsive she was to his advances, so THANK YOU for articulating that perfectly

He is an absolute sleaze-ball as you said, and clearly did not realize he was incriminating himself throughout that whole exchange

like even if Currie’s version of the events were true (I highly doubt it), he still committed statutory r*pe. Perhaps Suzanne and him don’t understand the age of consent but a fourteen year old girl cannot consent to intercourse, so anything he may or may not have actually done to her is still R*PE, whether she seemed willing or not. I’m completely abhorred that a biographer would give a man like that such a large platform and not only that, but agree/go with the story he tells- I’m sickened by it

and god, his reasoning as to why he wouldn’t need to r*pe Priscilla is just the most insane thing I’ve ever read ⬇️

“I had at least ten girls that I could call any night and go have sex with them,” countered Currie. “I’m not bragging—at least ten. I didn’t need to rape anybody ”

excerpt is from “Child Bride” by Suzanne Finstad

okay like?? Ted Bundy had a longtime girlfriend and yet he still went out and s*xually assaulted and murdered women… what’s your point, Currie?

what also bothers me is that Suzanne Finstad is sitting on the full audio tapes of that conversation between Priscilla and Currie, and knowing her history of misquoting people and writing things that don’t line up with other testimonies, I wouldn’t be surprised in the very least if parts of that tape have been conveniently left out, or transcribed wrong, as she converted it from audio to text

like the whole 1961 photoshoot, as you mentioned, is something that I just wish I could hear Priscilla explain for herself

Priscilla Presley and Currie Grant in 1961

It does raise the question if what she said transpired was true why would she ever want to be alone with Currie again, and better yet, why would Elvis willingly put her in a situation like that?

Especially when he was aware of the attempted r*pe ⬇️

MARTY LACKER: “There was a guy who used to bring Priscilla around to Elvis’s house some, over there in Germany. He would take her home to her parents’ place, and then he’d go back to the barracks. Well, he was a scumbag. He was using cute little girls to get into the house, to be around Elvis. And he tried to put the make on Priscilla one night when he took her home. She says in her book that he tried to rape her. But he didn’t succeed. Elvis told us about it, himself”

excerpt is from “Elvis and the Memphis Mafia” by Alanna Nash

The only explanation in my mind that makes sense is that perhaps Currie Grant was Elvis’ only remaining contact in Germany- or at least the only person in contact with Priscilla- and since he was so desperate to see her again, maybe thought that the reward outweighed the risk

And obviously a 15-year-old Priscilla was still reeling over him leaving Germany and would likely agree to anything to please him…plus since it was Elvis who asked Currie to take the photos, maybe she thought if Elvis trusted him to do that, she could trust him as well ?

And although I doubt she intended too, Suzanne inadvertently said something similar when trying to do one of those logical fallacies that she does throughout the duration of “Child Bride” ⬇️

“Priscilla, despite her claim that Currie tried to rape her, was thrilled to oblige, “desperate” for word from Elvis, through Currie”

excerpt is from “Child Bride” by Suzanne Finstad

I feel like Suzanne is basically answering the dilemma herself despite her attempt to point out the inconsistency in Priscilla’s behavior (her being afraid of Currie, but also being around him)

Priscilla was willing to be photographed by her attempted assaulter as she was desperate for contact from Elvis and Currie just happened to be that link between them

and I have to say, my original response to the ask that I received about “Child Bride” was something that I was worried about posting as many of the more passionate anti-Priscilla crowd tend to treat it like it’s their Bible but WHEW- I am beyond relieved that so many people have also seen just how outrageous that book is, especially the narrative that Suzanne Finstad goes with- like as you said, trying to make a fourteen-year-old Priscilla out to be some “teenaged succubus” LMAOOO (that took me out 💀)

I honestly consider myself to be Priscilla-neutral despite what some people assume of me based on some my posts 🤧 and so because of that, I am very open to reading and discussing the valid criticisms against her HOWEVER- I have no time in my day to take someone like Currie Grant seriously so that is why the first half of “Child Bride” (chapters about Germany and what fourteen-year-old Priscilla may or may not have done) are just what ruin the whole book for me

And it’s a shame because again, there are some very valid things that Suzanne points out about Priscilla, especially the things that were left out of “Elvis and me”; like her inconsistencies in recalling certain events, her sometimes questionable character (treatment of others), her possible greed (suing and more suing) and the biggest one to me- her involvement in Scientology… but all of that is just dampered by Suzanne’s god awful commentary and god awful judgement

also girl please do not apologize for sending this in- I sincerely thank you for adding to the conversation about this book as I think these kinds of discussions are so beneficial and I’m just truly grateful to be able to have them with y’all- I’ve fr learned so much from your guys’ insight

and since there is such a surplus of information about Elvis (and Priscilla), I feel like the best way to navigate through it all is by breaking it down like this, and so if y’all ever want to talk about another book feel free to send in your thoughts <3!!!

[disco-elysium-via-polls]

Before going anywhere else, I stop at Frittte to drop off some more tare.

🎵 Fritte

The yellow roses in the window -- those aren't the flowers that were left for Klaasje.

VISUAL CALCULUS - The tracks are as they have ever been. A bit more worn, perhaps. Fortunately, the street sweeper still hasn't noticed their presence.

"This is where I started off with my motor carriage... before sinking it in the sea."

I think I got it. [Leave.]

KIM KITSURAGI - "No wonder the cafeteria manager seemed frustrated when he was giving us directions to the yard."

"Well," he gestures toward the gaping hole in the fence, "you did provide us with a very convenient access point to the crime scene."

Not sure how else we would get there, to be honest.

🎵 Whirling in Rags, 8 pm

We should be able to deal with the two winning options at once here...

Except we haven't paid for a room today, so we're locked out.

🎵 Miss Oranje Disco Dancer

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "I was just thinking -- what a nice day for questions." She lights a cigarette. "Pertaining to a murder investigation."

"Can I ask more about you? For the record."

"I need to talk to you about your room again."

"Let's talk more about this so-called assault."

[Volition - Legendary 14] Look her in the eye.

"Titus Hardie gave us a recording where the deceased states his intention to commit rape."

"What is this wild flower?" (Show her the flower.)

"Let's return to this later, miss."

Huh, did we... have that check before? I don't remember it.

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - She puts her coffee cup down.

PERCEPTION (HEARING ) [Easy: Success] - With a soft ring, as the porcelain meets the metal table.

EMPATHY [Medium: Success] - This does not surprise her.

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Did he?" A smile flits across her face. "I never said he was a good man. Or that he had good intentions -- only that he was never bad to me."

"On this tape he specifically identifies *you* as the target."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Mmm. Where did they get this recording, exactly?"

KIM KITSURAGI - "It's intercepted radio chatter of the deceased -- recorded via a de-encryption station. It's authentic enough."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Does he says he's gonna do it *Soldier of the Apocalypse*-style?" She arches her brow.

"Those are the exact words he used."

"Something to that effect, yes."

"No."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Yeah... That was practically his pick-up line." She picks the cup back up.

ELECTROCHEMISTRY [Medium: Success] - A memory surfaces in her tired neocortex -- it's not entirely unpleasant.

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Did he say *whores* a lot?... Was he pretty much on the verge of *doing it Co Hoi-style*?"

"Yes. The word *whore* was used."

"Co Hoi *was* mentioned."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "He liked the way it *sounded* when he said it. As to Co Hoi..." The young woman lights a new cigarette with the butt of her old one.

"He wasn't *actually* there -- he didn't do a tour, or at least didn't tell me he did. Would've been overkill anyway. He lived his own little Co Hoi. It was in his... *everything*."

"Why say things like that? Machismo?"

"Do you think he was trying to scare people?"

KIM KITSURAGI - "Yes -- was he bragging?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Oh no, I'm pretty sure he *did* all those things -- then integrated them into his idea of normalcy. To keep on living. Until they just... sort of turned into his..." She thinks. "What's the word I'm looking for?"

"Coping mechanism?"

"Catch phrase?"

"Persona?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Running joke. I was gonna say running joke -- and it sounds like you didn't even get the good bits. Lely's punchlines got way, way funkier than that."

"He was like the Semenese conflict, the Co Hoi massacre, and the '36 famine in Yeesut all rolled into one person, then cast in Oranjese ceramic armour. Which he wore in bed *and* in the shower..."

EMPATHY [Medium: Success] - When he said he was *done* and *done mentally* it didn't sound like a joke. Sounded like a deeply troubled man.

"Hold on, he said he was *mentally done*. That's sounds like a broken man to me."

"Weren't you afraid?"

"You like this kind of stuff?"

"And you spent time with this person? Romantically?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Well..." She smiles. "Maybe I pieced him back together -- with my magical personality?"

"Weren't you afraid?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Afraid of what? That tape the Hardie boys recorded? Your mother probably never told you this, but girls are *evil*."

"Had I the physical robustness and social support I'd be *in* Co Hoi, *I* would be tearing it up *Soldier of the Apocalypse*-style..."

HALF LIGHT [Medium: Success] - She wouldn't, she doesn't have the Full Hoi in her.

KIM KITSURAGI - "Did he tell you he had actually *done* any of those things -- here in Martinaise, I mean?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "No. We were too busy laying waste our own nervous systems to direct any of the *fury* outward. He seemed..." She thinks. "He seemed happy, I guess. At ease. As much as a man like him could be."

SUGGESTION [Easy: Success] - There is a small measure of pride in her. That she could quell the rage in such a being.

LOGIC [Medium: Success] - What kind of man *was* he? Before you go, ask for details. She seems okay to talk about it.

KIM KITSURAGI - "Thank you for clearing that up, miss." He turns to you. "Whenever you're ready -- I'm interested to hear what Titus Hardie has to say now."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - She takes a very small sip of her coffee and smiles.

Before we ask her any more, let's try this Volition check.

4. [Volition - Legendary 14] Look her in the eye.

+1 Slight confusion about bullet.

VOLITION [Legendary: Failure] - She looks back, time moves slowly. The triangles of her face rearranging into a weary smile...

SUGGESTION [Trivial: Success] - Don't worry. We will protect you from her beauty. We will *consult* you through the reefs and sounds of her persona.

DRAMA [Easy: Success] - We will see through deceits. You are shielded. You are wise.

ELECTROCHEMISTRY [Easy: Success] - You are advised. There are muscles on long white bones that line her limbs, just below the silver jumpsuit...

What is... happening?

Avert your eyes.

CONCEPTUALIZATION - Nothing. Just time passing. Don't worry.

PERCEPTION (SIGHT) [Easy: Success] - Anything out of the ordinary and you would be notified.

ENDURANCE [Trivial: Success] - Air moves in your windpipe. Your heart beats. You're a detective -- get back to detecting.

Am I being... beguiled?

Avert your eyes.

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - She presses her elbows against her waist and slowly turns her head.

PERCEPTION (HEARING) [Medium: Success] - Her hair brushes her shoulders, making a small hissing sound, almost imperceptible...

2. Avert your eyes.

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - The strange moment ends. It was brief, no longer than 2.2 seconds.

5. "Now that you've had some time -- can you tell us more about the victim?"

KIM KITSURAGI - "Like -- for example -- his name?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Actually, officer, I didn't know his name. I just called him Lely."

KIM KITSURAGI - "A nickname?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "I guess. He came from Lelystad -- it's short for that. And it was his *army name*, apparently. He said his real name wasn't *his*. I tried to pry it out of him, but it was no use."

KIM KITSURAGI - "Lelystad. That's a good start..." The lieutenant writes it down in his notebook...

…then tears out a page and hands it to you. "We have a few questions you can help us with. A few things a field autopsy alone can't answer."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - The young woman cranes her neck, trying to catch a glimpse of the page the lieutenant passed to you. On it is a list of autopsy observations, recorded neatly in blue ink.

INLAND EMPIRE [Easy: Success] - The last missing pieces of a puzzle of flesh.

"Where is Lelystad? The place, I mean?"

"How old was he, miss?"

"His eye colour?"

"He had a tattoo -- what did it mean?"

"Tell me something odd -- did he enjoy his death?"

"Could it be love that *did him in*?"

"We requested a semen screening from Processing."

"I think we're finished with this line of questioning." (Hand the lieutenant back his notes.)

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "In Oranje, officer. It's a... I think *municipality* is the term? A nowhere-town there."

KIM KITSURAGI - "You were *almost* right, officer." The lieutenant shakes his head, like you just missed a shot in darts. "That means his race was Occidental, not Mondial. I'll update the form."

(Look at Klaasje.) "You were both from Oranje?"

(Look at the autopsy paper.) "Moving on..."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Yes. We were compatriots."

KIM KITSURAGI - "Did that bring you together?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "No. He was too old for that -- and from another part of Oranjenrijk. I didn't even understand his accent. What brought us together wasn't Oranje -- it was bad habits."

ELECTROCHEMISTRY [Medium: Success] - Sex, alcohol...

2. "How old was he, miss?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "He was forty-two."

KIM KITSURAGI - "Forty-two? Are you sure? I would have had him above fifty..."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "He had many scars that made him appear older. But no." The memory makes her smile.

"We even celebrated his birthday, like, some weeks ago… It was a funny two days. He had little reason to lie to me."

KIM KITSURAGI - "Looks like you were right, officer." The lieutenant taps on his notebook once. As though assigning some kind of *point*...

PAIN THRESHOLD [Easy: Success] - Points are good. Have one, you old dog! Before we all die...

+1 Health

"I did not know this was a competition, Kim."

Better not to mention it...

KIM KITSURAGI - "It isn't. Police work is a *cooperative* sport."

3. "His eye colour?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Blue, light blue. They were like..." She stops, her eyes half closed, then continues: "Like little blue galaxies, you know. It was strange, seeing those eyes in his fucked up face..."

"Pardon the swearing." She takes a drag. "I do him an injustice -- he wasn't ugly. And he had a beautiful, soft voice. Very surprising, what with all the scarring. It was quite something, watching him speak."

KIM KITSURAGI - "He had a combat wound -- on his chin and mouth?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Yes. *Severe*." She seems to enjoy the word. "It made him look like half his face was cracking away in some strange smile. That and those eyes..."

KIM KITSURAGI - "Oh yes," the lieutenant suddenly remembers. "His hair -- if you can remember?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "It was light brown, almost blond. He darkened it with brilliantine. Made it oily. Not nice to stroke. I couldn't convince him to leave it alone."

"Interesting -- I too have stroked his hair."

"Kim, I said to put the brilliantine on the form -- do I get a point?"

"Let's get to the rest."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Oily, isn't it..." She says, unfazed. She draws on her cigarette and lets the smoke linger for a moment in her mouth. "We have that in common now."

COMPOSURE [Medium: Success] - She understands what autopsies entail. It doesn't get her off-balance.

"Kim, I said to put the brilliantine on the form -- do I get a point?"

KIM KITSURAGI - "No," he answers dryly.

"But I put it down, there…" (Point to the red autopsy slip.)

"Okay."

KIM KITSURAGI - "Okay. Sure. Here you go. What else are we missing, officer?" he asks, trying to get the questioning back on track.

+5 XP

4. "He had a tattoo -- what did it mean?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Oh." She smiles. "*That*."

SUGGESTION [Easy: Success] - It's clear she *liked* it.

"You liked it?"

"It was an Oranjese Map of the Waterways?"

"It was a map of his service history?"

"What did it represent -- do you know?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Quite a lot, yes."

"It was an Oranjese Map of the Waterways?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Sure, waterways... It was mostly for showing off to chicks though."

"For showing off to chicks? How so?"

"Thank you. A few more questions..."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "How?" She leans back. "Imagine him lying in bed, *freakish* musculature laid out on the sheets. Scarred, of course. Tattooed. The sheets are dirty for some reason."

CONCEPTUALIZATION [Medium: Success] - Is this Oranjese lit?

"Is this Oranjese lit?"

Don't interrupt.

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Yes. This is the very *essence* of Oranjese lit -- a moment's respite. Dark and hopeless as the struggle itself." She leans even further back to demonstrate.

"He's smoking and drinking, of course. And his chest and shoulders and arms are studded with stars. Tens, hundreds of them. Maybe even thousands."

"And the woman goes like..." She points at the air with her sharp-nailed finger, picking out an imaginary tattoo-star. "'What was *this*, baby?'"

"And he says..." She lowers her voice, comically. "'That was *too* hard core. Don't ask me about that.' So she goes: 'Okay. But what's this, baby?' And he's like: 'Saw some bad shit there, killed some loincloths.'"

"And so it goes -- star after star, port after port, third world country after third world country. And he's done horrible things in every single one of them."

"You were the woman in this?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Oh yeah." She nods.

"Can you tell us precisely what these mean?" (Hand her the photo.)

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "No thank you." She does not take it. "I've seen enough of him dead. I can tell you what they *meant* without looking at them." She pours herself some more coffee.

KIM KITSURAGI - "Go on."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "He was a blue-eyed boy with thick arms. From a small town. He was also *poor*, and the government of Oranje needed some people killed, so they turned him into a grotesque killer -- for money."

"He went to Killer Academy in Vredefort. Then he killed some people on the Semenine islands. And on other islands too -- all of the islands. After this he came to Revachol and got killed himself."

"Not a very fun story."

"Good story. Thanks."

"Thank you for clearing that up."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "It *is* when you're high. It can be very exciting then -- you have the tools to deal with it. It's not a very nice story to remember when you're sober." She smiles faintly. "A change of topic?"

4. "Tell me something odd -- did he enjoy his death?"

VOLITION [Mediium: Success] - Just have her answer the question. Don't give explanations.

"Please answer the question, miss. Did he enjoy the moment of his death?"

"It's just a feeling I have. Indulge me."

"It came to me in an *occult vision*."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "It very well could be, yes."- "I don't think he *enjoyed* dying, officer. He had too much left to do -- too many third world conflicts. Couldn't tap out just yet."

DRAMA [Easy: Success] - Everything checks out here. It's all A-Okay. Good answer.

5. "Could it be love that *did him in*?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "It very well could be, yes."- "It very well could be, yes."

"What do you mean?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "What *do* I mean?" She raises an eyebrow. "I have no idea. I don't even know what *you* mean. Love did him in? What does that mean?"

"He told me -- love did him in."

"Okay then. Another question."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "That's not funny, officer."

COMPOSURE [Medium: Success] - Her voice is like a slash through the air. Her shoulders tense up.

6. "We requested a semen screening from Processing."

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Good for you."

KIM KITSURAGI - "What do you think it will tell us?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "I don't know how a semen sample works, officers. How many days after intercourse does it have to be -- I don't even know if he had sex with someone else. We didn't *go steady*."

RHETORIC [Medium: Success] - Is she avoiding anything? Technically not.

VOLITION [Easy: Success] - See? There's something off here. This one *must* know she's deploying flares and countermeasures.

7. "I think we're finished with this line of questioning." (Hand the lieutenant back his notes.)

KIM KITSURAGI - "Alright." The lieutenant puts the slip back in his notes and observes the young woman for a moment.

Task complete: Question Klaasje about the dead man

+10 XP

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - Coolly, gracefully, she pours herself more coffee.

7. "Let's return to this later, miss." [Leave.]

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Why not? I'll be here until 23.00, drinking coffee most likely..."

VISUAL CALCULUS - Wait, stop -- that man, bloated beyond all recognition, was 42?

It's what she said, yes.

[Discard thought.]

VISUAL CALCULUS - Below the damage, the weeks of decomposition, all the swollen indignity of mortality -- he was 42 years old?

Where is this going?

VISUAL CALCULUS - How old are *you*? That's where this is going. Forty-five thousand litres of raw alcohol has left its disfigurements. What lies beneath, you wonder.

REACTION SPEED [Easy: Success] - You could ask either one of them.

"Kim, how old do you think I am?"

(Turn around.) "Miss, how old do you think I am?"

I got this, I got this... My age -- I think I'm...

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Huh?" She leans in closer. "How old do I think you are?"

"I don't know... 40? I was like 9 when OO peaked. That was, what? Nineteen years ago? I liked them when I was 9. You couldn't have liked it when you were 40..."

"Let's say you were twenty-something. Twenty five. A good disco age. Twenty five plus nineteen is forty four. I'm gonna say you're 44."

LOGIC [Medium: Success] - Wow!

"Wow."

"Forty four? I'm young!"

"Forty four? You think so?"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Yeah. I have a university degree, you know." She flicks ash from her cigarette.

"Forty four? I'm young!"

KLAASJE (MISS ORANJE DISCO DANCER) - "Absolutely. Age is just a number, man."

KIM KITSURAGI - "Yes miss, but..." The lieutenant disagrees. "For him that number is *56*."

VISUAL CALCULUS - Wait! This requires *scientific* measurements.

Bring it on. I am not afraid of the truth.

I don't want to think about this any more.

VISUAL CALCULUS - To the Laboratorium!

Thought gained: Date of Birth Generator

DATE OF BIRTH GENERATOR

Temporary research bonus: None Research time: 7h 15m

Your face looks like it’s 58 and your body feels like it’s 60. Your mind feels like it’s lived for one day or a hundred. Both longer than they ought to be, the day and the century.... But for how long, then, has this thing attached to your sentience walked the planet’s crust? Time to start racking those brains of yours, Elder One. When and where were you born?

[bigsoftmarshmallow]

Oh my gosh! I completely spaced!

In my mind, Demise is the wrong guy.

Just, the absolute worst person.

Rape, pillage, cannibalize, torture.

When he was a deity, he was, essentially, a god of the madness & cruelty of war.

Of the savagery of humanity. Of lust & hate & dominance.

He could be different. He could be more.

But he doesn't want to.

See, to me, both the Dorfs & Demise crave power, but it isn't actually power itself that they want. It's control.

Not just over others, but more than anything, over their own lives.

In their minds, power gives them control. Those with more power, have more control.

So, they want absolute power so they can have absolute control.

What they don't understand. What they don't comprehend is that the sort of control that they wish for more than anything can only come from within themselves.

Anyway, in Gàlondo's continuous attempts to gain more power, he stole a fruit from the Mother Tree of Life in the Gerudo homeland, Ûjïa.

It's said that eating this fruit makes you "10 fold on the outside what you are on the inside."

Here's a very rough overview of his story. Or, at least, the later part of it.

---

After the 3 Golden Goddesses created the Golden Land, but before Hylia became the patron deity, queen of the gods of Hyrule's pantheon, & custodian of the Triforce, someone else had been placed as the head. He was the son of Din, Gàlondo, & this proved to be a very bad idea. He had grown to be a bloodthirsty wretch & committed a crime against the gods, by stealing from the Mother Tree of Life.

See, the fruit of the Mother Tree was said to grant great power to one who was worthy. These fruits were typically gifted to mortals who had reached enlightenment, thus escaping the reincarnation cycle, or one who had gone on a journey of deep spiritual growth. If they eat the fruit, then they would live out the rest of their lives, but upon dying, they would be reborn as deities or higher spirits, their form, abilities, & power made to reflect who they were on the inside. This would even work on already existing deities who had done so themselves.

That is to say, that deities or even demi-gods who were born from a union between 2 gods or a god & a mortal, were not innately enlightened right out of the womb. And thus, they could, themselves reach that same enlightenment.

Though, even if a mortal weren't enlightened, but was spiritually mature enough, they would still get a boon from it if it had been gifted to them by a deity who was given permission by the elder gods. (Though, that tended to need a lot of red tape.)

Now, Gàlondo harbored no love for mortals & was indeed quite prideful. He believed himself superior to any mortal & saw such spiritual pursuits to be a waste of time.

He believed himself to be above all that. That surely, as the King of a Pantheon & protector of such an immensely powerful artifact as the Triforce, he was worthy of the power to be given by such a sacred tree & he said to himself that if he were already so magnificent as he was, surely, surely, the tree's fruit could make him even more so.

So, he stole from the tree & ate its fruit. But something odd happened, the fruit was bitter on his tongue, but addictively so. He was suddenly more hungry than he’d been before taking his first bite & the hunger grew, beginning to gnaw at his insides.

He became ravenous & consumed the fruit’s flesh with craven ferocity & greed.

And as he did so, he began to change. Though his hair & eyes retained their firey light, the color of his hair changed from burning orange to blood red & golden eyes like twin suns, burned the color of dying stars. What changed most was everything else. His once healthy, bronzed skin became mottled with a mix of inky black & deathly pale in the form of ghastly veins & covered in razor sharp scales.

Whereas before, he’d been considered quite handsome in a rugged sort of way, he would now be described as beastly.

Because he was a being defined by his sins & his own secret self-loathing, his outside was made to reflect as such.

Being the vain, selfish, hateful, bloodthirsty person that he was, he was turned into a Daiyokai, fueled by his own On’nenryoku (evil magic fueled by fierce negative energy, such as hate, resentment, ect).

Gàlondo was cast out of the home of the gods & sent to Naraku where he gathered an army of akuma, as well as monsters & yokai with more violent tendencies. He then burst forth from the earth & began to kill & corrupt the people of the Golden Land in pursuit of the artifact that he saw as belonging to him.

He began to despise the gods & named himself the Bringer of Demise. For that was what he would do.

---

I'm thinking about translating "Bringer of Demise" into my Gerudàn language.

Anyway, there's more, but I'm still working on it.

I love your look on the Legend of Zelda series! I love the lore! EVERYONE NEEDS TO SEE THE LORE! AHHHH-

[beautifulpersonpeach]

https://www.tumblr.com/beautifulpersonpeach/732115125629321216/i-find-some-your-reactions-towards-tae-pretty?source=share

The one I couldn't quite stomach was borderline implying date rape - that Tae would get women drunk to have sex with them. That's crossing a line to imply such depravity.

Not only is he probably in a committed relationship with a girl since late 2021 if people believe the Taennie rumour all the way through, he can't really drink a lot and was literally peer-pressured into drinking by other men on the team such as Yoongi, Jimin, JK and possibly Jin. I can respect you BPP for how amazing your grasp of the industry is, but when it comes to members it seems very coloured and biased by discourse in various bubbles rather than actual content.

***

Your link.

Lol! Now we're getting somewhere. I know I probably shouldn't dismiss what you're saying given how aggrieved you appear to be and how serious this charge is, but now that I see the basis of your recent asks... you're not giving me much of a choice here lmao.

I kinda thought you were talking about my reaction to Tae's recent habit of Black cosplay, and was prepared to tell you exactly what I think about your taking issue with it. But the reality is far more silly. Thank goodness.

So, what got you ticked off, (or led to your current conclusion of how I feel about Tae) was this post.

*

After publishing it I got a bunch of asks from people I assumed to be akgaes of various members (only Jin akgaes didn't respond), and I deleted them all almost instantly because I thought they were silly. Thinking about it now, and looking at your writing style, it's possible your ask was among them. And the only reason I'm taking your ask seriously this time, is because you've leveled a pretty serious charge, and so I realize I'm probably not giving you enough benefit of doubt.

I understand tone is generally difficult to convey through text, but if you could not tell that entire thing was a massive shitpost, and that nothing untoward was even actually implied for any member... then you have me wondering about more than just your sense of humour.

Speaking more generally, I've talked about this before but I've noticed the cultural zeitgeist now is this weird combination of a puritanical black/white attitude to topics around sex but in a culture that claims to be more sex-positive and self-aware than any generation that came before them. Like people generally okay with the idea of women engaging in casual sex or one night stands after a party, but eliminating the agency of the woman in initiating, consenting to, and participating in it to claim she's advocating for being date raped...

...as you've managed to do in this ask.

Because, again, the premise of the original ask was, and I quote: "...the one who would make YOU feel the best in bed?"

But maybe I'm not giving you much benefit of doubt.

Maybe you've experienced some sexual trauma in the past and so you're sensitive to any mention of casual sex + alcohol/drugs

Maybe you're religious and so the whole idea is abhorrent to you on a moral fundamental level

Maybe you've seen this characterization of Taehyung made before in more unkind spaces and felt I was feeding into that

And this is aside from the general posture in online spaces these days, where the default is to presume the worst possible interpretations and so people constantly couch their words in qualifying phrases to prevent someone else taking it the wrong way.

...all that aside, allow me to spell it out for you that:

This was a shitpost. It's not meant to be true to life for any member.

There's nothing actually wrong with a person (a woman in this case) comfortable with a man being attentive to them at a party and keeping their drinks (or legal drug of choice) flowing so long as they consent to it.

There's nothing wrong with a man (or person) propositioning another person for sex at a party. Obviously.

I understand there's some debate about this in some circles, but I believe it's possible for a person to consent to sex while drinking. If someone is so drunk they can't walk straight, speak or think relatively clearly, then obviously they cannot consent, and nowhere was this actually implied in my post.

I almost can't believe I'm saying all this lol, but I also get that such is the nature of the internet where you're exposed to all sorts of people, each with their own belief systems, and while I assumed most of my readers are adults, it's possible you might not be.

So Anon, if this was the basis for your sniff test on whether or not I hate Tae, you can rest assured that's not the case. Neither is it for the other members I painted in other colourful ways in that post.

[nonbinarygamzee]

something to be said about how homestuck as a continuity kind of gets away with the presentation of themes of csa and assault without ever having to commit to being stories that actually talk about those things because despite an at times overwhelming presence on the narratives at large, these topics only ever get Addressed in particular scenarios. most pointedly as means of blanket condemnation of characters the story already doesnt want you to like but keeps running into the trouble of having written them with more sympathy than intended. otherwise its all safely swept away into the implied, into the vague. for me, that only functions as another layer of alienation,to see things that happened to me and that have continued to literally control my life, regarded as like. a plot device. and i dont think every story that talks about abuse, especially sexual abuse, has to do so with this veil of horror and unease, because theres something to be said about making it a taboo too far that other direction, right. too horrible to speak about, thus too horrible to teach about.

idk. i think a lot about how as a teenager i was very into using the terms trauma/torture porn to describe why things hurt me so deeply, and how i feel now is kind of different, but moreso for realizing i was always kind of using it. differently. not to say i wasnt obviously a product of my environment in the hellscape of 2010s internet feminism, but like... for all it is a term reliant on demonization of porn as a stand in for sexual desire, i think its pretty evocative as relying on porn as a stand in for the horrors of an industry that uses bodies without care for those bodies. not to say porn is alone in that obviously, but theres a difference to me between a story that just invokes ideas of rape and assault in a way that is lackluster, or lazy, or clunky. vs a story whos insertion of these topics seems to function almost entirely as a means of shutting down a conversation. of reasserting that x character actually deserves everything without a shred of understanding and youre kind of the bad guy for thinking otherwise, since he like, totally raped/beat/molested that girl/child/whatever. and as further means of justification when those characters are then brutalized themselves, with a lot less obscurity than the supposed crimes they are committing.

i probably wont, because i doubt it would be pleasant for literally anybody else, but as ive been working on this little project idea of mine, i keep considering in application just going full ham on these themes, because ultimately in making anything sequential about homestuck, im kind of caught in this space of tearing open the walls of conversation the story (and its continuations) have been trying to shut down. i do not want to have that conversation on homestucks terms because homestucks terms have always prioritized telling me and people like me why we are wrong for feeling any kind of way, often before we even say it all, and then throwing our own experiences back in our faces and calling us perpetrators. if you want to have a story about the evils of preying on children, then actually have it.