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torashisama · 1 year ago

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Siuaraine : Is Moiraine the top ?

Short, unexplained answer : NO.

Long and explained version : No but,

I don't think that Siuan is a top or that Moraine is a bottom. Not even that they are both switches. What I think is that they don't really fit into these labels anymore. (They might have at some point but not anymore, so far into their relationship). Submissive or dominant, it's something else, but "top" or "bottom": I feel are too rigid for something that's most likely fluid.

But then again, If Siuan had to be put in one of the two she would be the top but something like a service one.

"Someone who is a top in bed but likes to service the other person (mostly only doing things for the other persons pleasure ) rather then dominating them."-Urban dictionary

"An individual who applies sensation or control with the bottom's pleasure in mind, rather than their own."- Wikipedia

“A top who acts according to what pleases their bottom, which pleases them.”

Which does not fit into the multitude of narrative that are implied by her just belonging in the role of the "top".

As for Moiraine if she had to be put in one of those she would be a bottom, no doubts when it comes to New Spring but the show made this particular dynamic of theirs more complex by keeping Rosamund's ad-lib ("On your knees") in the show. Yet, she would still be a bottom and still is. Only, she wouldn't fit the narrative and implications of the role either. She'd be switching between some particular types of bottoms, she could be a regular bottom, a bratty one or a power one. It'll depend on how she feels basically or on what she needs.

A regular bottom would be what's most natural for her, whether she'd be bratty or a power one would depend on how confident she feels ordering a Siuan around at the time.

"Gay terminology, Similar to a bottom, but a specific variety. A power bottom tends to be in charge, and feels most powerful when bottoming, the one who bottoms is the one on the "throne" so to speak, "taking" the Top".- Urban dictionary

"A bottom or submissive sex partner who refuses or fights against the top/dominant partners orders in a bratty way" - Urban dictionary

Let's demonstrate how she still is the "bottom" (reminder that I think these labels are ill fitting for them).

1. Moraine's been flustered any time Siuan was around or she thought about her :

During the first Siuaraine meeting in the Hall of the White Tower, as soon as Siuan arrives and turns around, Moiraine is thrown off balance. Her eyelashes flutter uncontrollably, her breathing is irregular, so much so that she breathes trough her mouth as if she needed to catch her breath because she had stopped breathing the whole time (also, when Siuan lift her gaze to look at her she instantly bow, almost, if not in sync with her and everyone closely follows after). scene

Before going to the hut, when she's preparing to go to Siuan and Lan arrives we can see that she's ridiculously happy and excited of finally reuniting with her, she's eager to get there and just want Lan to finally leave so that she can go and see and be with her. As Lan is leaving she gets all flustered again just thinking about her and has to exhale to compose herself before she even starts channelling to activate her ter'angreal; scene

In the Hut, she somewhat pretends to be calm, composed and unaffected because she knows that Siuan must be mad at her about the hall. She does not move, stays quiet, just listens but then as she listens to her, looks at her, it becomes harder, she starts to smile and when Siuan notice her do so, she orders.

"Don't smile.",

Moiraine obeys.

"Am I forgiven, Mother?", she teases. Siuan is not in the mood for it and reminds her harshly.

"I hate it when you call me that. Moiraine is still not moving an inch, she waits and Siuan continues

"So much for the Amyrlin Seat remaining neutral without favourite" she stands up closes the distances between them and as she does so, Moiraine follows her with her eyes and glances at her lips before looking back into her eyes and Siuan finishes on

"No life, no love of one's own, nothing but the seat". Moiraine asks

"When have we ever followed the rules?" It's a reminder. Siuan finally touches her, she lays her hand onto her cheek and Moiraine sinks into it for a moment then looks back at her, Siuan grabs her by the neck and gently pulls her in for a kiss, a short but deep and intense kiss, she pulls back to look at her again, it's still hard to believe that she really is there, Moiraine wanted more but stays passive and

only take what she's given, she too is looking at her, she glances at her tattoos, still not touching her and only hovering her hand over her skin (I never realised before too) she realises that they are new.

"These are new" she says.

"A year, maybe two"

"you've been gone such a long time" Siuan answers softly, almost whispering, she lays her hand back on the other side of her neck and pulls her back in for a kiss, maybe more, as she does so Moiraine suddenly speaks and says something reminding her of their performance in front of the hall earlier, stopping her from going further, she's surprised, looks at her, considers saying something and prefer not to and questions her instead with her look. She (might ) thinks

"is it what you want?" and somehow she knows, her puzzled expression turns into a quick smirk before changing for the last time before she descends. It had turned into an assertive, almost intimidating look warning her about what was to come.What did Moiraine do ? She ordered.

"On your knees." scene

( Yeah, i ended up writing it like I was writing a fanfic, i know, was not intended, I guess you can't escape this happening when you describe this kind of scene. )

2. Moiraine cannot challenge or resist Siuan :

In the hut :

After she composed herself before coming in :

Do not approach because she knows Siuan's mad and that she'll get scolded for the hall.

Is told not to smile, obeys no questions asked or backtalk.

Later,

Siuan : Rest.

''You think I can sleep now'' (resist order)

kisses "I'm here"

close her eyes to rest (obeys)

scene

When going to see Siuan in her study :

Ny : Let her wait

Mo: "Siuan Sanche only waits for one woman and it's not you."" while leaving to go see her wife at the speed of gays that she regained in E08 whether she's followed or not.

She will not risk making her wife angry or upset even though she'd actually be waiting for her and she knows it. (she also probably just wanted to be the most amount of time near and around hee when she could be before she'd have to leave but I included this scene because it also gives use some insight into their relationship a part from the fact that it tells us that Mo is head over heels for Siuan, possesive about her as she won't share any of the special treatments she gets by being Mother's favorite, not even with them and that she's proud and overly confident (in a good way) when it comes to her wife and will not hesitate to be more open when she can allow it because no ones around)

In Siuan's study :

Just watching and listening to Siuan, we can see that Moiraine's visibly fawning, melting,folding, everything over her. Had Ny and Eggy been able to pay attention to something else but Siuan they would have seen it too.

The woman has more colors on her face there, after their night together than during all of S1 and S2 combined.

scene

In the Hall (oath rod marriage) :

Siuan: ''By the light and the hope of my salvation and rebirth, I, Moiraine Sedai swear to obey the judgement of the Amyrlin Seat and never return til she calls me home or may the creator face turn from me and darkness consume my soul.''

Moiraine: ''By the light and the hope of my salvation and rebirth, I, Moiraine Sedai, DO swear to HONOUR and obey Siuan Sanche, daugther of the river, clever as pike and strong as the tides and never return until she calls me home….. or may the creator face turn from me and darkness consume my soul"

In her family home, in Cairhien, when Anvaere tells her that the Amyrlin Seat demanded an audience with her:

she's visibly distraught

S2: In the hall of the Sun palace

Their meeting follows the same pattern as the one they had in 1x06 ( shoutout to those who saw my thread on the similarities between these two episodes on twitter), even though, this time she's not overjoyed by the idea but rather apprehensive as she wanted to keep her away too, as she's had been doing with Lan.

reminder in case you don't how that's what she had intended on doing with Siuan in some type of way : related post

As I as said these meetings follow the same thread:

Confrontation ( Why did you do this?/ Why didn't you tell me ?

Scolding-> ( idiotic risks/ Lan's consent)

Comfort ( Siuan's closes the distance and initiate contact by first laying her hand on her cheek, kiss her etc../ Siuan closes the distance, initiate contact in the same way but no kissing for obvious reasons (+ it's cairhien)

Tension/Discomfort ( Exile necessity/ "it's time I meet Rand'Al Thor")

She also pretends that she's calm and unphased but we can see that she is not able to look Siuan's eyes, that even when she does, it is part of her act and she surrenders as soon as she tries to correct and mask what she truly feeks like.(except when it's not about her, them, Lan but the dragon reborn and their mission)

When Siuan approach she leans back slightly, and when she does touch her, she fights against it.

Siuan tames her bratty bottom, and I mean that she literally does and proceeds as such:

She acknowledges the defying gesture and adjust accordingly

Instead of a caress, she chooses to cup her cheek in her hand and caresses her with her thumb instead

Moiraine folds here and there and melts into her touch and loses any ability to think of anything but Siuan until she's pulled out of it when she decides to let go of the hold that she has on her as she's telling her about her meeting Rand. For half of the sentence, her hand is still on her and Mo seems to just be lost in her eyes, as she somehow does not react at all, as if she couldn't compute what she was being told and it's only when Siuan ends and says Rand Al'Thor and finally let go of her that we finally get the reaction we'd expect from her.

scene

When they fought about Rand in the Sun Palace :

She dropped the ball when they were arguing about Rand.

After, she's angered Siuan she doesn't hold back her words anymore and at the end Mo surrenders, no backtalk, no more bargaining nothing just silence in compliance to what Siuan said would happen from now.

scene

"Siuan's dominant but she would sub for Moiraine":

As for those who agrees that, Siuan clearly is the dominant one of the two but would be more submissive in private or with Moiraine, well you have been showed thanks to the previous chapters that this simply was not true as she is still as dominant as she is when she's in public and fulfilling her role as Amyrlin Seat with Moiraine and in private. She's only softer as she actually cares about Moiraine's well being, needs and wants probably more than her own as she ended up being the one becoming Amyrlin Seat when of the two Moiraine would fit better (dominance set aside).

"Siuan's a bottom, she'd use the opportunity to let go":

For those who believes that she would be Moiraine's bottom because she'd take the opportunity to let go of having to always be in charge, I understand why you would think that. As it makes perfect sense for someone to want to let go of a mask that they had to wear all day long as it is exhausting (I understand on a personal level) but you're just mistaken about what exactly the mask she has to wear consist of.

To be brief and directly go to the point: Siuan is naturally dominant and takes on roles involving being in charge of her own volition. She's so dominant that she steps into these roles without realising it which is something that sometimes could have gotten her in trouble because of how she acted. It's as natural as breathing is, and as easy as we've all seen that channelling is for her. She doesn't pretend. This is what made the Amyrlin Seat fit her more than she fitted it.

Simply put, the Amyrlin Seat does not restrain her because she has to rule, lead, and command 24/7, this she does even without intending to do so. It's having to suppress her quirks, behaving, the superfluous manners that comes with the title and " sorinde, mashinde, obiyar isain shai".

Sorinde, Mashinde, Obiyar isain shai. ( No life, No love of one's own, Nothing but the Seat) - Siuan Sanche

e.g : Alone with wife and kids, she specifically states that it's Siuan not the Amyrlin Seat today, she actually never put on the amyrlin mode.

scene

e.g : With Rand she distances herself from her role and only includes herself in the group of Aes Sedais.

"Do you know what Tower Laws says the Amylin must do if she finds the Dragon Reborn ?''

''We are meant to cage you, keep you shielded, channelling only what we want, when we want and when the last battle comes you'll be the best weapon in our arsenal not our general.''

scenes : First Meeting/Six Months. Huh!

For those still not seeing why I used Eggy, Rand and Ny as examples it's because Siuan isn't only sweet caring etc…she's not putting on a mask when she stops smiling because Nynaeve's being disrectpectful or when she lift her finger and stops them in their tracks. She's alone with Mo and their kids. When she's being silly and cute and then intimidating and showing and/or exuding dominance, these are both instances of her being herself. She's not switching to the Amyrlin Seat Mode.

The Amyrlin Seat Mode is her being stiff, barely moving and standing straight chin up and no slouch. It's her not using her hands as much or not at all and not making fish metaphors or being as expressive. That's what she had to suppress and what would create the need to let go that you attribute to her having to rule and she gets it back in the hut which is why she hates being called Mother by Moiraine.

scenes : Cairhein arrival/Logain

P.S : There are other reasons why she even has to pretend even though she fitted the role but they would have to be proved by spoilers from new spring so I won't rely on them or add them.

As I feel that me pointing out how different she actually is when she has to act (or mask) for an audience or just official matters versus how she is when she's herself with no reason to pretend is enough.

Now, obviously, anyone can headcanon Siuan and Mo how they prefer it to be. I myself do not think that they fit into these boxes so I don't really think about them this way but as much as this is true for me, it still doesn't change the fact that Moiraine is still protrayed to be a bottom and sub and Siuan a top and dom which makes my actual point of view on this matter as much of an headcanon as it makes yours one too (if it is different obvi), and it is fine.

PS: if you like my thoughts (or just the way I think about things) and would like to get my opinion on something as a non-reader, feel free to ask, the feature's here just for that, also sorry for the delay to those who waited, might be nobody but we never know. I had some connections issues today and couldn't post before.

Here : "WoT about: Rand gets no hero moments"

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