#similar to what agatha did in wandavision

[chocolate-cream-soldier]

//

[rootspiral]

Agatha All Along deep dive: episode 7 part 3

(Wandavision entries: [1][2][3])

(AAA entries: ep1 [1][2][3][4] ep2 [1][2][3][4] ep3 [1][2][3] ep4 [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][+1] ep5 [1][2][3][4][5] ep6 [1][2][3] ep7 [1][2][3][4][5][6] ep8 [1][2][3][4][5][6][7])

chat what would be *your* reaction if you woke up and found agatha straddling you? (love that she has sensible pants under the skirt)

this is what sex after 50 looks like ladies, take notes

regular timeline: lilia has already joined the trial and was just doing a reading for billy.

lilia's pov: this is the first time she sees billy after he kinda sorta tried to kill her

this delivery from sasheer destroys me

lilia goes from anger to shock to recognition while billy reads her mind and responds to her thoughts

billy sounds so young here. of course he would have saved alice, if he could. of course he's reading her thoughts: he can't help it. he cannot help any of this. it's up to his coven to help and guide him, it was never the other way round.

now that the sigil is gone, lilia recognizes the lost boy from three years ago. not a scary monster, not the son of the scarlet witch. just a boy in a lot of trouble.

and look what jen does here. now that she knows what lilia's going through, she can step in and help her along

meanwhile agatha is making a scene, per usual. and lol she puts the hat back on, she really likes that outfit

love how jen is now 100% lilia's champion. same, girl, same

and jen being jen, she doesn't coddle or anything, she's very practical. she's like, hey girl, focus! you were in the middle of something important. I got your back and I'm going to fill the gaps for you. we can do this together.

yes I know babe the glinda halloween costume is cultural appropriation. could be worse. jen's dressed as snow white's fugly witch forchrissake.

does she have an eye on her crown? that's so neat

THIS shot. billy supporting lilia with his physical strength. jen supporting lilia with her no nonsense attitude. hell, even agatha just jumped in to save her from the falling sword.

agatha realising all that lilia did to protect billy. but also detective agnes getting another precious clue re: billy getting a new body.

lilia cast the sigil to protect billy from any external threats, and to give him the time to adjust to the shock of a new body and new life. again, lilia knew this was the son of the scarlet witch, someone that on paper terrified her. but when she actually met billy, she didn't see danger. she saw a young member of her own community in an impossible situation, and she stepped in. you know if she had met agatha as a teenager in salem she would have done the same thing.

pay attention now. lilia needs to find out what was her past/future self's mistake while reading for billy.

something interesting happens: while looking for answers, she jumps in rapid succession to episode 5 and episode 2. stop, stop, stop, stop, she repeats, like she is trying, for the first time, to direct her jumping. before, she was just a passenger. she's starting to become the Traveler

and where does she land? back to her maestra, where she can find answers to her current problem. she brought herself there, and only half accidentally.

and there's the crucial question.

che peccato, what a shame. a witch requires a coven.

the latin sentence on the table, in nave expeditus sis tam celer quam ventus, translates to something like "on a ship, may you be unimpeded and as fast as the wind". but there's another sentence in front of lilia, we can only read the first word behind her hand: mors. Death.

it's sure not going well now. despite the little step forward with jen, lilia still feels the odd person out, the one that's just too different to fit in. I know many of us, especially on this site, especially with our various but similar issues, have felt like that.

lilia's words are angry, resentful. but she's not angry, she's afraid. she's lashing out because looking in is too much. but like lilia herself said to alice: sad is better than angry.

when an actor gets that single tear forming in their eye... that's the good shit.

YOUR TASK IS NOT TO CONTROL, BUT TO SEE. you were born with a burden? turn it into power. if people don't accept you, show them what they were missing. do it in your own, unique way.

go to episode 7 part 4

[agentem]

Another thing about Agatha All Along I have a question about is the colors of magic.

Each of the witches in the Coven have a different color of magic. This is a good idea so visually you know who is doing things when characters fight.

But it's also implied by the trials and the ballad that different types of magic are associated with different colors. Like green witches have green magic. But I would like to know if the color is because of the type of witch they are or just, like, the color of their soul--who that character is.

Like Wanda has red magic. Alice is also associated with the color red, but it is slightly orange-r, if that is a word. Hers is more like a flame, than a straight bolt of red. The show is purposeful about that. The leaves on the way to the fire trial are orange and red too, whereas the leaves on the rest of the road are varying shades of blue, purple, yellow, and green. But they are all one color, you know?

Most of the covens that are shown all have the same color: the Salemites from WandaVision have blue magic, the first Coven Agatha kills (with the woman who barged up to her at Nicky's grave, fuck that lady) have yellow magic, the murdered Victorian coven has orangey magic, the murdered 30s/40s Coven has blue magic, [i can't see the color of the magic of the 80s Coven)

But "our" Coven is many different colors. They are a rainbow. Are they unique? Or are most covens of all the same type of magic user?

There is something about how Agatha's magic is purple and the Salemites have blue, that makes me think that is how they know she is the "wrong" type of witch. Or Agatha did something to make her magic purple? Or did they just want to kill her because she was (naturally) different?

And, if Billy has blue magic, does that mean his magic is similar to Agatha's mother? (Billy's is a darker shade so we might be in the Wanda's magic vs. Alice's magic situation. Maximoffs are just so special they get their own magic?)

But then if Agatha learned blue magic--or whatever it is called--growing up, is she a good person to teach him? Or is his a darker shade of blue so it's not the same kind of magic? Or is this just a visual language that says nothing about the type of person or magic the person wields?

Can we assume the yellow coven, with the bitch who interrupted Agatha's funeral for her son, was a coven of divination witches? Maybe she was bopping around time and didn"t realize how rude it was to interrupt a funeral? Wow now I am the bitch.

Jac Schaeffer called Agatha a "spirit witch." Are there other spirit witches with purple magic? Or is it just Agatha? Can Agatha tell by looking at them what kind of magic they have or would have? Can she tell HOW MUCH power someone has? She doesn't seem to recognize a lot of power in Billy until the Door actually does open? But she also seems to show deference to Lilia by telling her about how to not get killed? Or is that deference just because Lilia is older?

I want to read into this but I am not sure I should.

[mswyrr]

Well written female characters--written to be *people* first and foremost--are so fucking wonderful. Look at Wanda and Agatha: they have similar traumas and yet their personalities and how that shapes their responses is dramatically different and (IMPORTANT) those differences are not depicted as making one simply pure "good" and the other simply pure "evil." They just are who they are.

Their youth/maiden stage of life was violently torn from them and then, in adulthood, the motherhood they came to love* was taken from them and the love of their life too. Major, life changing traumatic losses.

And how do they respond? Wanda is all about withdrawing -- she tries to pull away from the pain and make a little safe space for her and the people she loves. All of her strength and power is aimed toward that subconsciously and, in her behavior, we can see the pattern is consistent. For her part, Agatha is all about rage and aggression. She does it charmingly, because she's a bit of a con artist, but the drive of that charm is pure aggression. People are going to hurt ME? Fine!! I'll hurt them first! I'll hurt them BETTER! I'll take all their power and then nobody can ever touch me. They deserve it, they would have done it to me if they could!

(The exception being someone like Jennifer, whose good intent and decency toward others was so blindingly obvious that Agatha kind of hated the sight of it -- it disturbed her and made her uncomfortable -- but she also respected it and didn't try to fuck with Jen)

They're like the perfect examples of the flight vs fight response. And the fact that trauma shapes responses differently depending on personality doesn't make some people inherently "good," it's just a thing, damage is carried different ways. And it can all cause harm to the people around you, depending on where you're at with it, even if your desire is just to flee and be safe. (And Wanda also seems to have a deep capacity for rage when pushed far enough, in expanding the hex, and a taste for vengeance - what she did to Agatha was nonfatal but by no means not violent). Connected to that: Women aren't a simple binary of bad and good. It's absurd to try to categorize them like that and it makes fictional representations thin and empty to do so. It makes artists who want to express the human condition in all its variety through female characters hobble their own art. And it's really beautiful when artists are brave and capable enough to fight their way out of those restrictions somewhat.

I love it. I just love every bit of it. I intend to rewatch Wandavision and Agatha All Along once AAA is finished to further compare and contrast.

*I don't buy that Agatha traded Nicholas for the Darkhold

[artemissc17]

Agatha All Along Episode 5 spoilers (and Wandavision)

So especially after this episode I think a few things about Agatha’s backstory are more cemented maybe? Obviously might be wrong but here’s what I’m thinking so far:

I think Agatha’s power might be one of two things: either she was born with this ability to absorb magic/power from others, or she somehow got it. 

I’m leaning more toward the former. I think it just fits more with the themes of the show in some ways. Like, if the idea of witches as a whole is that the witches are an Other to "normal people/society”, then who or what is the Other to witches? I think if you consider witches like a community, or as they call it a sisterhood/kin, then they will have an Other. 

And to that point, something stands out to me from the flashback of the Salem execution scene. They more or less in Latin say “death to the monster of nature” which is really specific and intriguing phrasing. 

I might be looking too much into it but, what would be a monster of nature to people who have magic? If “normal society” or non-magical people would consider them a monster of nature, what would the monsters of nature consider a monster of nature? 

I think it would be someone who is born to have the ability to steal/take/absorb magic from other witches/magic users. 

So especially with what Agatha’s mother said this episode, which was basically: “I should have killed you right after you were born” ; I think Agatha was born with this innate power. 

Especially with the detailing that Kathryn Hann (bless this woman’s acting ability it destroys me) has put into her performance, I do think Agatha has very little control to no conscious control of her siphoning ability.

In the execution scene in the Salam flashback from Wandavision, she is clearly being affected by the attempted execution right up until some reflex or survival instinct kicks in to save her.

'Cause, I would say that the murder attempt is working pretty well here considering the VFX of it. It looks like they're burning her alive from the inside out with energy

But then the purple kicks in

So, kind of like maybe baby Wanda hexing the missile not to go off? So if it is Agatha’s innate power and she can’t control it, that reflex lines up with that narrative. Similar with Agatha absorbing magic/power from Alice this episode, she didn’t seem in control fully. At least not consciously, I don’t think. For a few reasons:

She seemed to genuinely be in mild shock after she got snapped out of the reflex or whatever it was and it stopped

After she fled (again like she did after the execution scene in Salem) she seemed distraught over something. I don't think it would be Alice's death if she was trying to kill her and take her power

3. Kathryn’s performance consistently. 

And by this I mean that so far the times we’ve seen Agatha absorb power like that, she seems to be almost euphoric from it. Like she’s relishing it and the feeling of it. I imagine it’s probably something like an adrenaline or serotonin rush. 

So if it is, that seems like it’s maybe something that just happens. Like a reflex. Like her magic or power has this hole in it and it wants to fill it, but can’t until she’s attacked. But once she is, that’s a one way street. It becomes like a combination of a reflex plus her own mental state of being power hungry becomes a cycle that’s almost subconsciously of how it pulls the power out. 

Especially because we still haven’t seen these two shots from the promo teasers

I could keep rambling abut this show forever but I just feel like this ability to take magic/power from others who attack her first is something she was born with.

It would play into the idea of making Agatha the Other even among her own kind, even among witches. And it sorta plays into the idea of queerness that the show has maybe? With how queerness was/is often considered the Other within societies.

How do you make Agatha the most outcast outsider?

Maybe have her have the innate ability to take magic/power from others who pride themselves on this magic/power, have her legit being in a situationship with Death itself, AND have her be at the very least bisexual, if not lesbian or pansexual (I think there’s an argument to be made about Death being all of the above, both, or none of the above)

[child-of-the-danube]

I might just be biased, but I truly fail to understand how people see Agatha as a villain. Anti-hero and morally dubious perhaps, but villain no. I'm absolutely not saying she's perfect. That woman is deeply flawed and fucked up, but evil is not what I'd describe her as.

People keep putting emphasis on her being a killer. I guess we'll see it in a flashback episode but by now the only people Agatha "murdered" that we know of were all due to the inability to control her powers. The Salemites and Evanora knew and they still tried to attack her like the dumb cunts they are while she was screaming that she can't control it. Alice was an accident caused by her dipshit mother who's 100% to blame for what Agatha turned out like. The most evil thing we've seen her do both in WandaVision and Agatha All Along came with the relevation that she controlled Ralph (on top of him being controlled by Wanda), making him poison Sparky, and using the twins as bait for Wanda.

Is she self centered and cunning? Absolutely. But she's mostly acting like a wounded animal seeking refuge. After a lifetime of coming across people who from the start refuse to give you a chance, and not only that, but try to actively take you out, who wouldn't be? Her powers have been a thing of notoriety and people still fucking decide to attack her. Quite frankly, that's on them. Agatha's primary tactic is literally being annoying and for centuries people keep falling for it by not stopping and thinking for a second (except Lilia apparently in episode 2).

We accepted Wanda as a deeply flawed, traumatized person who did what she did, which was by all means torturous and left permanent mental scars on the citizens of Westview, out of colossal grief, childhood trauma, personal desires and her own inability to control her feelings and powers and did not mark her as evil, but Agatha going through similar trauma (which lasted, mind you, centuries longer than Wanda's) and doing similar things is irredeemable?

Yeah, I don't fuck with that.

[isagrimorie]

A Look Inside the Writers Room of AGATHA ALL ALONG with Jac Schaeffer & The Writing Team - FYC

Notes:

Jac Schaeffer loved the idea of a Mare of Easttown, a prestige TV parody. Similar to WandaVision.

Episode 2 is the real pilot episode of the Agatha All Along show. Because episode 2 had so much exposition going on. The writers thought episode 2 might be a two-part episode. The writers decided against the two-parter idea. They needed the coven to be on the road by the end.

The original antagonist idea was the Debt Collector. The Debt Collector was a Witchy T-1000 that would pressure the coven forward.

The Debt Collector was originally a man until Aubrey Plaza entered the picture. The Debt Collector became Rio, and only then did Rio/Death have a romantic backstory with Agatha.

The original conception of Death's speech patterns was of someone from another age; because Death is a being out of time.

According to Schaeffer, Aubrey Plaza is such a specific actor and has a very present energy that the ancient speech patterns didn't work for Aubrey's energy.

Jac: "I know, we've, like, that is the some of the fandoms disappointment is that they didn't quite get enough of her. But I'm like, I don't know, we might have melted the platform."

Not with that attitude, you can't!

Joanna: How did the team decide what needs to stay versus what could be cut? And how did this pacing and storytelling choices? Who wants to tackle that?

Jac: I mean, I think it's me. I'm the one who cut things. We knew that Jason's episode would be substantial. Let's see. What else? I think it was a surprise that Giovanna's episode, it was a surprise that we were like, we're going to do the whole big musical number. And then we're also going to have all of this falling action in the campfire. And then it was a surprise in post, on the day, on set and, then in post that really that episode is all about that final moment between Rio and Agatha. We thought we were doing a musical number episode with a demon, and a curse, and a whole bunch of stuff. And it turned out we were just doing two ladies almost kissing. And THAT was the thing. I mean, it was on the page, but we didn't know. So that ended up being much longer than we thought.

Episode 7 started as Poseidon Adventure, Murder on the Orient Express, and Death on the Nile. And then climbing the tower.

Jac took inspiration from Memento. Gia and Cam outlined the story chronologically and color-coded certain chunks.

And now, we go to the most contentious part, Episode 5:

Laura Monti wrote a lot about Salem Seven and their backstory. They had to cut for momentum in the episode.

Monti also wrote more on Agatha being a medium, and the lore behind it. It could explain why Agatha is the spirit witch. And, why mediumship was Agatha's trial.

Also cut for pacing: a longer broom sequence. " --the length of that, like how we got into it, like what we actually were seeing."

Another reason why the scene was truncated was because they were committed to practical effects.

Other ideas nixed because they committed to more practical effects and less CGI: Vines that can move on their own. A CGI skeleton Sparky the dog.

LOL, Jac really taking to heart on spitting on the concept of 'Save the Cat'.

Megan McDonnell suggested Rio cut with her dagger through the canvas. Peter Cameron suggested the last trial as a very sparse room where nothing could grow.

Agatha would have seen Eddie before she announced herself to Billy as a ghost. She would have razzed Billy about Eddie. 

There was more on the page about Agatha giving birth to Nicky. It would have tied into episode 2's Witch Kit. But the witch kit idea was nixed. 

The reason why they showed Agatha giving birth in a natural and raw way. Jac wanted that for Wanda in WandaVision. Disney gave a note that Wanda should give birth behind the couch. So now Jac was able to scratch that itch.

[ennn]

Initial Agatha All Along Ep 6 Meta Thoughts + Reactions

You good? I think I'm actually pretty good with what we got.

One of the struggles I've had so far with Billy is that Joe Locke always seemed more likeable than Teen but this episode convinced me that was because the boy wasn't being really himself.

Look I honestly usually don't give a shit about kid or teenager characters but this boy is winning me over. Dammit, show.

That "interrogation" scene was IN-credible and props to Joe Locke for holding it together for as long as he could. He still almost very nearly broke but who can blame him honestly.

Actually looking forward to the real Billy and Agatha bonding. Because they're both dumbass bitches. Both of them falling off things and failing at running? AMAZING.

I'm absolutely avoiding Twitter because I know some folks will be mad Billy got his boyfriend kiss but guys GUYS the odds of a kiss between Agatha and Rio happening later just got legitimately good

Will be genuinely upset if Kathryn Hahn does not get an Emmy for all of the work and talent she's showing off here, she's so full-throated in her performance and Agatha is such a captivating, complicated character

I mean, Agatha's being like a literal sad wet cat here but she's such a survivor and a performer. She will muscle her way through her trauma with the strength of her charisma and deal with it later thank you very much. She's so damn funny (and so sad if you stop and think about it)

Amazing consistent characterisation with Agatha being absolutely fascinated with powerful witchcraft and knowing her stuff. The energy she brings here is so similar to how she got studying Wanda's magic. The Detective Agnes character really isn't that far off from who she is. She's a nerd! She loves investigating. She's got big professor energy.

Crap, this show is making me want to rewatch Wandavision. Because people have told me that she always had a soft spot for Billy and Billy liked her and ugh damn this cross-marketing is working.

But like Agatha being honestly proud of him surviving, Agatha who's done terrible things to survive, knowing how witches have survived in a world that's not been kind to them. Agatha who's telling him that it's okay he did the things he did, because she's been telling those things to herself.

I was right! Rio was absolutely not physically there in person for those episode 1 house scenes given that the mirror was a painting. Among other things, it would have been weird for her to have gone into the house and then returned to blow up that door.

"You and your mother have a tell." "Which is?" "Convenient for me." -> Absolute zinger of a line. I love love love how Agatha, for all her pathetic loser energy, is being shown as smart and cunning. She always suspected! She knows things!

Also i think we've established by now that, in this show and universe at least, that witches are all some level of awful and can and will fuck up people's lives (intentionally or not).

This episode was designed to be kind of a tonal palette cleanser after all the angst and drama of Ep 5 and it worked, I think!

[asterinthesiren]

THEORIES and THOUGHTS: BILLY

With 4-ish days left for the next episode, finally, here is my long-overdue post about my insights about Episode 6! Also this is going to be a three parter, because as I'm writing this I realize that it is too much for a single post to consolidate all of my theories LMAO

Of course special mention to @justmonty because without her none of these theories would have been cooked at all

Part 1 Billy | Part 2 Agatha | Part 3 Trial and Next Ep

Alright HERE WE GO!

Ok, so first off, our gen-z son of a bitch himself, Billy. His reveal was so iconic but it confused the hell out of me because if HE IS Billy Maximoff, is he the reincarnated version or did Billy survive the hex and got adopted somewhere else?

Both is possible because in MoM, Wanda couldn't find him... which makes sense since Agatha said that a sigil put on someone hides that person from the sigil caster (if the sigil caster fits the requirements of the sigil), so the sigil would hide him from Wanda too. So this is what I think:

Wanda might have put a sigil on Billy, even BEFORE everything happened: as soon as she started suspecting that another witch was in the hex (which could be when she started suspecting Monica or as soon as Pietro didn't make sense). HOWEVER, it could also be when Billy and Tommy were tucked into bed that last time when Wanda was shrinking the hex down, when she already confirmed that Agatha existed (and other witches by proxy).

SO IT WOULD MAKE SENSE THAT SHE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO FIND THEM IN THIS UNIVERSE NOW BC SHES CONVINCED THAT THEYRE GONE IN THIS UNIVERSE.

so it's either: billy's soul, that still has the sigil, reincarnated into a new body OR billy survives for some reason and lives a new life; i mean even the fact that he was just living in Eastview (which he mentioned before his voice was muted), so incredibly near the hex is very telling of his origins from the get-go, and adds both more clues and more mystery to how he came to be.

which leads me to how Agatha figured out that Billy was Wanda's kid, rather than hers (of course the prerequisite here is that Rio tells her this). There are two prevailing theories, both of which are possible (and may coincide):

When Billy says Nicholas Scratch's name, the sigil doesn't work--which is the biggest dead giveaway that he wasn't Nicky. Because yes, Billy asked about what really happened to Agatha's son, but that doesn't really say anything because we don't know how much the sigil is censoring. If he was Nicholas Scratch, would the sigil block out his memories of Agatha too? So when the sigil lets him say Nicky's name, Agatha confirms that it's not him. By virtue of elimination, the only other young witch that could have been powerful enough or reckless enough to do anything like what Teen's been doing is Billy, and Agatha concludes this because Billy Maximoff would have an agenda. But that raises a question: if Billy wanted to take revenge on Agatha, why free her from the distorted spell in the first place? He could have just messed with her in the spell rather than freeing her.

When Agatha absorbs Alice's powers, her affinity for sensing spells and magic comes back. She said in Wandavision that she went into the hex because she felt the afterglow of so many spells being casted all at once, so it's possible that after absorbing Alice's powers, she sensed the power hidden in Teen and found it incredibly similar to Wanda's. From there, it doesn't take much to put two and two together.

With that in mind, after Agatha goads him into revealing his true power (more on that later), it's finally revealed that he has more or less the same magic that Wanda has, or at least an affinity for the same reality-bending, mind-control power that she had. NOW I POSIT YOU THIS:

(thank you to @justmonty for sending me this!)

Billy was always the catalyst of every trial so far. And let me remind you what he said when he first went into the road:

"It looks just like I pictured it."

SO, DOES THAT MEAN that he has a hand in what the road looks like? If he has the same or similar powers to Wanda, could he have made the road or manipulated it? What's the extent of his control here? Is it possible that he created a hex-like spell similar to Wanda's in the Witches' Road? I mean, he's so knowledgeable about the Road that there is a big chance that he can manipulate the things in it.

However, I come back to my earlier point: I genuinely don't think he's entirely in the know, because if his main motive is to fuck with Agatha, then why free her from the spell in the first place? What is he playing at? If he is the one controlling the trials, what does he have to gain from it? How much does he know?

I am very excited about the next episode, because as things stand now, it looks like the next episode will be from his perspective--or at least the story will follow him more than they will the others.

Those are my thoughts on Billy, Agatha and next episode coming next!

EDIT: This post speculating that Billy killed Sharon also 1) makes so much sense with the theory that he's somehow controlling the Road 2) fits in the evidence that he does have an agenda against Agatha because of Wanda. I mean, Sharon's entire trauma was about Wanda, so what if Billy killed her because of his fucked up belief that Wanda is perfect and sinless? MUCH TO THINK ABOUT

[cissa-calls]

Foreword to Agatha All Along

After years of waiting, tomorrow witches, marks the anticipated start to Agatha All Along! But, before the first two episodes stream, it's time to take one last crack at discussing some possible theories (and hopes) for the series:

Akin to how Wandavision was an exploration of American Television sitcoms, this series is partially an exploration of depictions of witchcraft and referential to horror in pop culture (the Witched Witch and Glinda from the Wizard of Oz).

Is Rio dead? How does she seem to emerge from the ground on the side of the witches road? Did she and Agatha try to walk it long ago, and Rio perished, thus she is now trapped there forever?

At some point, Agatha will end up alone. She will be walking alone because either everyone has died, or those remaining leave. This however will not be indefinite.

Conversely, it could also recall the beginning when it was just her and the teen, but just the two of them make it out.

I keep thinking of that scene with her and the teen in the metal room, where they both appear to be in patient gowns. Are they in facilities at S.W.O.R.D.? Is the teen crying because Agatha is making him walk through memories and realize his identity?

Agatha's knowledge of the road is either from the Darkhold or what Evanora taught (or rather tried to keep from her daughter).

As a green witch, Rio is connected to plants. Her costume quite literally looks like vines and roots growing are forming the bodice. Are plants relevant in the sense of bloom and regeneration? Or rather decay and withering?

Using, dismantling, subverting, or cannonizing of symbols or tools of witchcraft. From kitschy to terrifying.

The hooded figures who appear in front of the teen, is there one for each member of the coven? Is it a haunted form of themselves, or a twisted appartion assigned to capture each?

Part of this story is found family, and Agatha's fear of comraderie. Built off a lifetime of distrust, backstabbing, and taking, Agatha has to learn to trust. In a similar vein, Agatha has no sense of comfort or home.

The scene where Agatha's face is covered in small cuts or splatters of blood. Either that is the cataylst to a glorifying rise near the end of the show, or a horrifying turn of seemingly irredemtion.

Rio was once Agatha's companion, her only companion. A betrayal between the two sent Agatha into permanent solitude.

I sincerely hope this show explores horror and gives into the darkness that Multiverse of Madness teased. Comic relief is a needed presence, but the tone is overall geared towards darker themes and storylines

Speaking of darkness - night! The majority of this series will take place at night! At least the juicy and important scenes.

DOES AGATHA POSSESS THE DARKHOLD AGAIN OR WAS ITS APPEARANCE IN A FLASHBACK

When Agatha was young and on the run, she was targeted for possessing the Darkhold.

Rio and Agatha...history may call them the best of friends.

The Ballad of the Witche's Road might be sung in several versions/genre's (we've already heard two)

More lyrics of the ballad will be revealed and sung as the story progresses.

The Witches Road may be terrible, but it is a unifying force as it welcomes everyone. Remember the lyrics: "Seekest thou the road, all that's foul and fair," the road is a living thing, inviting everyone but casting judgement on those who can achieve

I will cry at some point. I am certain this will break me just as Wandavision broke me.

The glowing tree in the middle of the Witch's Road has something hidden beneath and growing within the roots. (Is it the heart of the Road, because it is a living legend?)

Each of the witches will have to confront their greatest fears manifested as scenes, memories, or landscapes of their personal hells. Only when they begin to trust each other or confront/admit their weakness can their proceed. Agatha would obviously have the final and hardest challenge.

Without her magic, such a core tenant of her identity and confidence, Agatha will be even more combatative and threatening (borne entirely out of insecurity).

Agatha's cameo, and the lock of hair in it, is a reminder of her humanity and connection.

At some point, Agatha will break, spilling out centuries worth of every held back, messy emotion (and Kathryn Hahn will SERVE).

Perhaps it is based on the obvious Eve allegory, but there will be more biblical allegories or subversions. Is Agatha being born anew?

Teen and Señor Scratchy bond. It is likely a trauma bond. (The rabbit may also gain a more horrifying form or eat an entire monster/adversary)

Elaborate outfit reveal. ELABORATE FINALE COSTUME OUTFIT REVEAL! AGATHA ACHIEVES ENLIGHTMENT AND HER MOST POWERFUL FORM WHEN SHE FINALLY RECLAIMS HER MAGIC...possibly foiling Wanda when she became the Scarlet Witch.

This is not an exhaustive list, but it will be interesting to compare these ideas to how the show actually plays out. In all of this excitement, there is still a touch of trepidation. After pouring so much love into counting down the days to release and yielding art, writing, research, and costumes for this character, Agatha has remained a fun force of exploration and expression for me. However, the excitement over seeing where Kathryn Hahn takes the character next assuages any and all fears, as we finally will confront who exactly Agatha was all along.

Get ready witches, it's time to walk the road.

[ayyaduselessbi]

Thoughts and Speculations about the Agatha All Along Trailer

Wow, the new Trailer for Agatha All Along was amazing. I love how Marvel is leaning towards the horror and supernatural aspect for this show. I honestly can't wait to for the show to come out. I've rewatched the trailer way too many times, and I have quite a few thoughts about it that I thought I could share. Especially about Agatha and Rio (I'm so obsessed with them even though there isn't much content about them yet LOL)

Agatha's Prison

I think the opening scene with Agnes being a detective trying to investigate the Jane Doe is really interesting. Cause if you remember, Wanda removed the hex over Westview but trapped Agatha in Agnes, so presumably this is Agnes getting a detective job after the events of Wandavision. However, one thing that sorta bothered me was:

How have the people of West View not realised anything? They would have probably noticed that Agnes doesn't belong there. Did they just accept her with open arms?

In the trailer, it's implied that after Agatha breaks out of Wanda's spell, she awakens in her Westview house without any clothes on and without her powers. How did she get from that room with the dead body to the house?

Honestly, I'm not too sure. The only thing I can think of is that when Wanda trapped Agatha in Agnes, she puts her in a magical simulation of Agnes being in a detective show. Sounds like a stretch but remember that in Wandavision, Wanda was able to use her powers to project Agatha to an accurate recreation of the time she was almost executed and killed her coven. Perhaps she used similar magic here?

Who Saved Her?

Something that kinda bothered is me is the disconnect between the show's trailer and hypnosis. In the trailer, it clearly shows that Rio was the one who tried to make Agatha realise she was under Wanda's spell and convince her to break out of it. However, in the hypnosis, it states that (presumably) Billy was the one to break her out. So, what's happening here? Outdated sypnosis or something else? Well, I can think of 2 potential ways both could sorta work

Billy projects himself into Agatha/Agnes' mind in the form of Rio Vidal. Perhaps he knew that if he appeared to Agatha/Agnes as himself, she would probably not recognise him or trust him. But if he presented himself as someone who had a big part of Agatha's past, maybe he would have a better chance of getting through to her. It sounds kinda weird and quite unlikely but it could be a potential possibility

Billy asks Rio for help. I'm not sure how they would know each other but one thing that I noticed in the trailer is the 2 scenes of Rio waving and immediately after Billy looking back. It could be nothing, just shots of different scenes in different episodes, but it feels so oddly specific to put those scenes together like it's hinting towards a connection between them. Maybe Rio helps Billy out for an ulterior motive, she does seem to want to kill Agatha after all. (There are rumours that she hates Agatha because she sacrificed their son to Mephisto gain possession of the Darkhold but not sure if it is canon)

Why The Change Of Heart?

From what we can tell from the trailer, Rio Vidal is meant to be an antagonistic character (I don't think she is a villain, just someone who wants revenge on Agatha) However, in the trailer it also implies that Rio will also end up joining Agatha's coven. So why does Rio end up joining Agatha despite the fact she was dead set killing her?

Rio has an ulterior motive. Perhaps she goes with Agatha to monitor her and see what's she's planning to do, then kill her at the best time. Though honestly I don't know why she wouldn't just kill her when Agatha was completely powerless

Rio wants to protect Billy. Above I stated that it could be implied that Rio and Billy could have some connection and also that Agatha allegedly sacrificed her and Rio's son to Mephisto to get the Darkhold. Perhaps maybe Rio sees their son in Billy and wants to make sure that Agatha won't do the same thing to him

Rio still cares/has feelings for Agatha. Rio does call Agatha "Sweetheart" in the trailer despite them being ex wives/girlfriends/lovers, and she is still willing to help free Agatha from Wanda's spell despite hating Agatha's guts for killing their son. She also doesn't kill Agatha despite Agatha being powerless and her being one of the most powerful witches (Though maybe someone helped Agatha or she has good hand to hand combat skills LOL). Perhaps deep down her love for Agatha never went away?

Agatha managed to convince Rio to join her. In the trailer, there is a realm that is green in colour and Agatha seems to go there alone. A few people have speculated that this realm is Rio's realm judging by the fact that it's green and she's the green witch. Perhaps Agatha went there to find Rio? In the trailer, when Agatha is in this realm, she seems alone. Maybe she went here alone since it's a personal mission, I mean what could be more personal than trying to convince your dangerous ex wife to come join you? Perhaps with a combination of reasons above(or maybe since allegedly this show may also be a musical, maybe Agatha sings her way into Rio's heart LMAO), Agatha managed to get Rio on her side

These are all just my personal thoughts and speculation. Let me know your thoughts as well, maybe I missed out something or misunderstood something. Can't wait for this show to come out!!

[geehollow]

Agatha All Along and Loki(s), my thoughts

[Cointains spoilers for: Agatha All Along (2023), Loki (2021), Young Avengers (Marvel Now! 2013) and Journey Into Mystery (from #622)]

[I watched this show not on D+ or any other platform that had the original English dialogue. Whatever I recall from the show has thus been translated by me from the Italian dialogues]

Giving in to @lucianalight 's nudging about watching Agatha All Along yielded some interesting results and I'm going to share. Thank you Luci.

Overall thoughts on Agatha itself are:

very good, 9.5/10. That remaining 0.5 is a score I give to concluded stories that have wrapped up nicely without disappointing me–Agatha doesn't get it because it doesn't feel concluded, although it did not disappoint me.

In fact, it gets high praise for not feeling like an MCU series at all, which means its story was engaging and well performed (everyone seemingly did their loving best and the sets and cgi were good), the characterization didn't feel disrespectful, I didn't feel the need to throw anything at any point, it kept me guessing back and forth for a long time during the episodes, and it truly felt like an independent series I could have randomly found on Netflix and binged in two days as I did. I only needed to ask Luci a few clarifications (I haven't watched Wandavision) and they could be delivered with a few sentences at most, so the series itself stands on solid lore and storytelling.

Major props to the soundtrack and song choices too.

Being a Loki comics reader and thus already knowing who Billy was meant I was able to make accurate guesses on what would happen and why throughout the story, and I think it lessened my enjoyment, but I don't think it should diminish my judgement of it all. I was pleasantly surprised at least once as I sidetracked myself thinking I was cleverer than the story, and although for some reason I couldn't manage to learn the other witches' names besides Alice's, I very much enjoyed their characters, the acting, their storylines and how they were told. The concept and execution of divination in the show is quite engaging.

10/10 on the humor. Coherent with the story, well-sprinkled, not one cringe one-liner for the sake of one-liners, didn't treat me like a dim idiot. Seeing the Agatha-Billy interrogation and chase scene from his POV was sooo funny I giggled the entire time, and I appreciate that the humor was created through the juxtaposition of two sequences that made sense in their own time, not through childish jokes. That's real work. It reminded me of the effortless humor in Loki S2.

More of this please. Stories and characters loved by their storytellers, a healthy consideration of the audience's intelligence, diverse cast, settings that were real–true respect for people and craft.

Similarities with the YA story

Across the central and penultimate episodes, I was reminded of Ikol from the 2013 Young Avengers run, and it was interesting.

Episode 5: I was first reminded of how Ikol wanted to take Billy's power by Agatha taking Alice's, as both stories involve Billy, and him being mad about someone taking someone else's power, and the act itself is an important part of the plot;

Episode 8: Agatha and Ikol both consider an option leading Billy to his death for their own gain, then both have a change of heart that lets Billy live;

(a bit of a stretch but I was laser-focused on similarities, so–Rio Death carving a path out in the background like AoA Loki drew a door in the background lol)

the way show-Billy's power acts through the Road reminded me of YA-Ikol's guilt-led missing power***

To Luci I jokingly said "'Based on Marvel comics' yeah I know which one."

I find it peculiar because, in a way, knowing that story + general expectations of how a story like Agatha could work allowed me to predict what was going to happen in the second half of it. It combined with my previous knowledge of Billy and it amused me to no end. I can't help but see Agatha in the role of Ikol within Billy's experiences–in Agatha, she helped him realize he was the creator of the Road and the implications of it. In the YA run, Ikol helped Billy along in realizing his powers to save Teddy and get rid of the Mother parasite.

Future MCU projects with Billy and Loki

In another post of mine, I'd shared the idea of having Kid Loki from the series be the one joining a team of Young Avengers, with the magpie being Tree Loki.

In JiM, Ikol the Magpie is a hallucination of the Kid from the phantom of the old Loki planted in his mind, with malignant intentions. But the magpie in a future series/movie could be benevolent–the MCU seldom follows comics faithfully and this could be a very nice instance of that habit. I would very much enjoy Tree Loki extending some protection and guidance to the displaced Kid. I think he would be kind to all the young heroes, and be particularly interested in Billy given Billy's ability to warp things, thus his potential to create timelines or even, through destructive actions, erase some.

At the end of Agatha, her ghost and Billy start looking for Tommy. The YA run, besides running from Mother, also includes looking for Tommy. I can see this being the basis for a future MCU project with the younger cast that has been introduced slowly after Endgame.

"Your path winds out of time" and "I need more time!"

I have the headcanon that the Road created by Billy was outside Time, simply because of that sentence. Yes, it most likely references Rio-Death, the original Green Witch described as the cycle of all living things, growth and decline in a constant stream, the common path everyone walks on, and is likely a warning directed at divination witch lady–***which by the way was the element that made me realize Billy's power shaped the Road around each participant, like Ikol's guilt-led missing power shaped itself around each Young Avenger's past for the final confrontation.

The Road-out-of-time is an interesting headcanon and I'm keeping it. It would make Tree Loki's curiosity more peculiar too. I'm sure there's more to be said about this whole thing.

It caught my attention that "I need more time!" was a repeated line/invocation in Agatha. I remember three instances (it's late as I add this so I might misremember): while the ceiling with swords was lowering, while Agatha was trying to make the dandelion growth, and Agatha pleading for more time with her child. Another little crumb I found intriguing.

Death the Green Witch, green the color of Time

I'd like it so much if Rio Death was a Loki. Or, better, more abstractly, a consequence of Loki creating Yggdrasil.

Agatha describes death as the green witch, tied to the cycle of all living things, growth and decline in a constant stream–like the branches of the Tree.

Green being the color of Time and all that exists within it means so much to me after everything the MCU did.

"Loki's magic keeps the multiverse alive. If he dies everything dies with him" pointed out Luci to me. True–so Loki is both life and death in the MCU. Time means growing, like the branching timelines, like living beings from birth through youth through maturity to death. From the beginning to the end. A manifestation of Death is a manifestation of Time, and in the MCU, Loki is Time–in Norse Mythology Loki is the parent of Hel. Well, I'd say Loki's the parent of death in the MCU in a way.

(Which brings me to MCU Hela, in an–undeserving of my brainpower and efforts–explanation for why she looks similar to Loki despite them not being closely related: if you become the god of something, you take on certain characteristics. Like a green and black palette)

Light thoughts: SWORD

Luci told me SWORD was in the Wandavision series after I asked if it might have been the SHARP society from the Mackenzi Lee's Where Mischief Lies book–a young Loki going to Midgard and running into a ragtag society whose acronym he finds silly, suggesting two more: first SWORD and then SHIELD.

I'm not expecting anything to come from this light connection, but like the "Your path winds out of time" quote, I find it really interesting.

__________

Obligatory link to the Loki comics reading order + plea to help find appearances

[dg-outlaw]

Agatha All Along - Season 1 Review

*spoilers ahead*

So I finally finished this series and I almost wrote a review after episodes 1 and 2, but felt this was a show that needed to be completed and have me marinate on for a bit.

I won't go too deep into the series or do a blow-by-blow of each episode and character, but I will say that this was one of Marvel Television's better live-action series. And this coming from someone who is "supposedly" not the target audience, which I think is total bullshit when it comes to media consumption. Most protagonists on-screen are not me (or you for that matter). Maybe there's a shared gender, ethnicity, culture, sexuality, etc., but a good story is a good story. Yes, it can be more engaging if you can see yourself in the characters on-screen and representation DOES matter, but again... give me a good story with good/complex characters or just something enjoyable and I'm in.

First, I appreciated that this series solved what I've perceived as Marvel/Disney's biggest problem with a lot of their shows the last few years, and that's pacing. Most Disney+ shows, even non-Marvel ones, have felt like long film scripts that were chopped up and extended for a 6-10 episode series, with writers/showrunners who don't understand series storytelling. Good beginning episodes, slow paced middle, random side plot/non-plot episode, and a rushed ending.

While some of the reveals in this series weren't necessarily shocking (thanks in part to some spoilers I accidentally saw online), I will say they were well done and the writers knew how to weave all the plotlines together for a satisfying story. If anything, I'd say episode 1 was the weakest episode, which is a hard start for a series (especially in trying to appeal to a general audience for a spin-off show), but going into the show knowing that it was about witches and not a re-hash of the WandaVision different TV show settings schtick, I was able to endure the whole dark crime drama show façade until it was torn away. That said, episode 1 wasn't bad, but the delivery was inconsistent at times. Obviously, this was later explained as the rest of Westview just going along with Agatha, but as a viewer it was hard to tell if Kathryn Hahn and the other actors were spoofing dark crime shows like 'Mare of Eastown' or trying to give a genuine performance like in WandaVision. It also didn't help that when Hahn and others were going a bit over the top in their acting I kept thinking about the Murdur Durdur SNL skit, which then took me out of the story. Thankfully, this stopped within episode 1 and episode 2 took us into the main story. So I say, good call in releasing episodes 1 and 2 together.

The rest of the series after episode 2 did follow a similar format to WandaVision, where each episode was a new setting with new costumes, but unlike WandaVision I felt like that gimmick never overstayed it's welcome. In WandaVision, the new TV show thing became repetitive about halfway through the series, but I stayed for the plot nuggets that dropped along the way. For 'Agatha', while each episode was a new "locked room" type experience, I think having the ensemble cast helped keep it fresh. Each character got focus, the story unfolded naturally, plot points were revealed throughout the episode rather than teased as a way to come back for the next episode, and the stakes seemed to get higher with each new trial. Basically, each episode was a self-contained story while also being part of a larger series arc. Series Writing 101. Thankfully, someone at Disney/Marvel finally understood the assignment.

I loved all the different characters in this series--the coven--and I was sad when most them didn't make it. So even despite each episode having some sort of themed gimmick it never felt like it was doing stuff for the sake of the gimmick or fan service, not to mention the big reveal in the last two episodes about the Witches' Road. Again, hats off to the writers for Keyser Söze-ing us (IYKYK) while also showing how myths, legends, or lore can form over time from the simplest of stories told around a campfire (or a fun little song between mother and son). And yeah, that song is catch as hell. Unfortunately, I'm also not someone who can memorize song lyrics, so it's just, "down, down, down the road. Down the witches' road." on repeat in my head. Thanks, Agatha.

Also, I'm glad Disney/Marvel committed to the LGBTQ+ representation on-screen. I know it's not the first instance, but the studio has gotten it's criticism in the past for queerbaiting. After all, Deadpool is on the app now so there's no going back. Plus, if you didn't know Agatha and Rio/Death had a past in episode 1, I don't know what to tell ya. I'm a cishet dude and I got it. Then again, Aubrey Plaza is always a good casting if you need an actress who looks like they might want to kill you, fuck you, or do both. And I mean that in the most complimentary way to Ms. Plaza. Hahn also did great and it was fun seeing her really chew the scenery as Agatha, while also knowing when to dial it back to let the other actors shine. Again, a great ensemble (Joe Locke, Sasheer Zamata, Ali Ahn, and Patti LuPone. Not to mention Debra Jo Rupp--poor Mrs. Hart).

Overall, I enjoyed this show. It was a perfect watch for spooky season. It was fun, heartfelt, and I enjoyed the whole cast. I know there are those who probably have deeper analysis/critique regarding witch and/or wiccan lore, magic, tarot, and the different trials each character faced in this series, so I hope you find those posts as well. I know I'll be interested in reading them as they pop up.

[hepbaestus]

Thoughts on Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery (2022) SPOILERS AHEAD

I just got back from a 7+ hour trip back to my uni accommodation and the amount of Glass Onion tiktoks that I've been getting are astounding. So I'm going to watch it.

All I know about this film is that Benoit Blanc is very gay and is in a relationship with Phillip (Hugh Grant's character). (Is that canon?)

This was filmed during Covid? Nice.

That's the actress for Agatha Harkness in Wandavision!

Oooo she's a governor.

He FAXES??? Jesus Christ, that is old.

Child = NFT??? that's quite hilarious.

Breaking Covid rules? As expected.

I already love Peg.

DAVE BATISTA??? HELLO?

this is the best character introduction to a character.

Dukey? What a cute nickname from his mum.

The breastification of America? What a sentence. (That was also difficult to spell)

Hell yeah, his mum's a badass.

Oooo fancy.

This box is fancy schmancy.

I like their interactions, they seem really human.

I want to meet this Miles Bron. He seems like a fun dude.

"My beautiful disruptors." I love that.

Oh. Of course Miles is dead. Bruh.

Oh no. One of their friends is alone.

I mean, that's one way of opening it that's for sure.

Really? Among us?

Benoit Blanc has a bath fez? That's brilliant.

The old hags playing Among Us is quite funny.

QUIPLASH? AS IN QUIPLASH FROM JACKBOX? hell yeah

Haven't left the bath for a week???

That was Cain's Jawbone on the floor with it's pages missing. Did this fucking man figure out the true way it's supposed to be read?

I love the rubber duckie on the edge of the bath.

No one straight wears a bandana around their neck like that. Or at least none that I know.

The different modes of travel suits each character. Of course she's not wearing a mask.

I don't know if I like the accent.

The reactions to this spray shot thing? Especially Benoit's, you can tell that he's had experience with things in the back of his throat unlike the others.

Oooooo a slap band.

Oh she left Alpha?

Oooo the sad lady again. She's clearly pitted to be the odd one out, probably going to end up being the main suspect or something similar.

The reference to Social Network oml.

AYO?? GLASS SCULPTURES FROM THE SEA

Also the name of the island; Pisceshite. Clearly meaning "piece of shit". I love this film so much already.

The running across the pier reminds me of Mamma Mia

The necklace? Sure dude.

The tension between Miles and Andi? Oof.

Miles looks like he's just in pajamas.

I love Derol. He's just there.

It is just a rich-asshole house.

Oh the slap band is a biorhythm monitor.

Andi's haircut is really cool.

That is very trippy.

I love that the detective has so many questions and stuff about the island.

"Simple children's puzzles."

I'm curious as to what chakra the others got assigned.

Benoit's outfit. Bro that's a homsexual.

Not Jared Leto of all people.

I love this awkward wading in the water.

Benoit's uncomfortableness when Birdie sits way too close to him. Like can y'all not see that he's a homsexual? Look at the outfit for crying out loud.

Dukes is on Twitch? Nice.

So what I'm gathering from this speech is that I would hate all of them if they were real life people.

Evidently, Andi has some seeming common sense of humility.

Of course Duke also got banned on Twitch.

Peg's is just trying to keep her job.

Of course, hiding behind a statue with it's butt just freely showing.

Oh shit.

The superman tattoo on the finger. Nice.

Is that a Ronald McDonald painting series??

The classic red cup

Andi's outfit. I love it.

HE HAS THE MONA LISA IN HIS HOUSE.

The Louvre closed?

Derol's back! My boy!

There's always one that doesn't know the answer. He like me fr.

Claire doesn't like Klear.

Oh shit, Lionel really doesn't like this.

HE JUST HAS THE FRONT OF A GREEK TEMPLE BEHIND HIS DINING TABLE?

IRL Cluedo time

Already starting the game.

Has he already completed it. Jesus Christ, this man is good.

I wonder why people don't tell you the truth anymore .

Of course Take Me Home, Country Roads is playing.

The cool turkey bone brooch thing that Lionel's wearing on his suit. The bone you pull and whoever gets the longer piece is lucky/gets a wish. (That was the worst explanation of it that I've ever seen)

The Mona Lisa's protection thing is going quicker, Miles or someone's about to die. This is where shit goes down.

I knew it

Rip Duke.

Is he choking? Nah shit.

Of course they're trying to cover their own asses.

Now they're going to be moving everything and ruining the scene.

Rip Andi.

That happens at 10 o'clock.

That close-up shot of the Mona Lisa is irking me.

Hugh Grant!!! Man's is just baking for his boyfriend.

Trauma dumping to a random stranger? Like every twitch chat I see.

Why is Andi's body on the gurney and then why is she alive for the party?

A journal since she was six? The dedication of this woman.

Oh wait, sad lady is Andi's twin.

Fuck. No.

Shit so that means both Brand twins are dead.

The good ol' Ted Talks.

I love that Lionel was a substitute teacher before all this shit.

They all betrayed her.

Whiskey has no thought to what she's saying.

She puts on a front.

I love that she's just downing the 9% alcohol.

Serena Williams???

Peg. Poor Peg. Birdie doesn't give a shit about her.

Derol! Turns out he has it.

Ayo what?

Jeremy Renner??

I am confusion.

Oh wait, she's not dead

It's really cool that we're also left out of the story.

That's so cool oh my god!

That son of a bitch.

Fuck bro. No.

Something is going to get thrown at the Mona Lisa and there'll be a camera in it.

That's a cool shot.

Oh shit the hydrogen gas thingy that this entire building runs on!

What a nice fire show!

The car!

I love slow shots where everything is going to shit. It's surprisingly beautiful.

Finally they're on Andi's side.

I like the lil portraits during the credits, very Cluedo style

Overall score: 9.7/10 this is such a good film

Recommendations welcome!

[thestarlightforge]

Not your fault OP, but

“Wasn’t he just a figment of Wanda’s imagination?”

is one of the MAIN reasons I hated MoM so much. Because, no. He wasn’t.

In comics, he and Tommy were a part of Dr. Pandemonium’s soul, until they were captured and reshaped by Wanda when she and Vision actually did move to the suburbs in the 70s. After that, they were stolen back by him and Mephisto, until Allan Heinberg’s 2008 Young Avengers run resurrected them as teens (Billy Kaplan and Tommy Shepherd). Anthony Oliveira’s Infinity Comics, Tom King’s Vision run, Heinberg’s The Children’s Crusade, Steve Orlando’s ongoing Scarlet Witch run, and a few other sources from the 2010s & 2020s have added some complexity to the in-between period, when their souls were unaccounted for in 90s & early 2000s comics (while largely misogynistic writers were twisting Wanda beyond recognition). It varies from source to source, but most likely, at some point they were freed from Mephisto and were in some kind of ether. Physically, they were around end-of-WandaVision age; their souls were their own, shaped by Wanda and Vision’s love for them; and they remembered as much about their old home as any toddler-aged kid might—but they hadn’t been reborn (as Kaplan & Shepherd) yet. And when they were eventually reborn, theories on how that happened are still being developed—something Demiurge related, Wanda and Doctor Doom’s shenanigans in The Children’s Crusade calling them home, that they were being couriers for the M’kraan Crystal for a minute, we don’t yet know 100%.

My running theory about Teen, though—which I was waiting until this week’s reveal to discuss—is that something similar happened in the MCU between WandaVision and Agatha.

Despite editorial indecision (and bad writing in MoM) muddying the waters, we’ve gotten multiple confirmations that main, 616-Wanda’s Billy and Tommy—the ones from the Hex, from WandaVision—are and were their own unique souls. Darcy and Jimmy specifically ask if they’re hallucinations—since “that’s her whole bag”—but Monica replies, “Oh, Wanda’s twins are hers. Everything might look fake in the TV, but everything in there is real.” (This is also why the boys are immune to her magic, I believe—why she can’t mind control them, or Vision.) Agatha alludes to this again in AAA ep. 1: “But if you’re real and not a figment of my imprisoned mind, then that means…” Most importantly, though, the boys had to have been real because that’s the entire point of Wanda’s power set—what makes the Scarlet Witch special:

[AGATHA] You have no idea how dangerous you are. You’re supposed to be a myth. A being capable of spontaneous creation, and here you are, using it to make breakfast for dinner.

[WANDA] Let go of my children.

[AGNES] Oh, yes, your children. And Vision, and this whole little life you’ve made, this is Chaos Magic, Wanda. And that makes you the Scarlet Witch.

So yes, Wanda “Tied [her] family to this twisted world,” the Westview hex, by accident, so that temporarily, “one [couldn’t] exist without the other.” But TL;DR: If the boys HAD BEEN mere illusions, that would defeat the entire point of Wanda being who she is.

Though Stephen obfuscates it, at the end of WandaVision, as Wanda studies the Darkhold, she hears Billy and Tommy calling out to her for help. I theorize these voices were in fact her Billy and Tommy, either caught in an ether between worlds (as in comics) or trapped inside the Darkhold itself, unbeknownst to her or perhaps anyone—seeing as the Darkhold is highly mythologized, and understood by few. As it corrupted her, she went more and more out of her mind and began tearing through other worlds, seemingly in search of any Billy and Tommy—landing on the Earth-838 versions we most often see in MoM, which she likely dreamed about because that Earth was the closest variant match to her life in WandaVision. When she destroyed the Darkhold, I believe she had given up on finding her boys—she accepted they were gone, fell into despair and killed herself, destroying it across the Multiverse at the same time.

Then, though, her chaos magic teleported her dead body to the last vestiges of her magic, like it was trying to reunite with itself: Agatha’s lingering “Agnes of Westview” spell. And within 3 hours of her time of death, there was a “near death in Westview”—most likely Billy Kaplan.

I believe that, when she burned the Darkhold—in that act of letting go—she freed her boys. Billy Kaplan died in that car crash, or he should have. Billy Maximoff—in the moment of release at the Darkhold’s destruction, being the more magically attuned of the twins—found Kaplan’s body. So either there are two kids in there, Kaplan and Maximoff, and Billy saved Kaplan’s life; or Kaplan is dead, and Maximoff is living in his body.

The timelines could be malleable on this. But that’s the outline, I think. And regardless, that means Billy and Tommy were always real—and MoM’s assertions otherwise are just the misogyny we always knew it was.

Someone explain to be how billy made it out. Please. I knew it would be him as soon as I saw his fit in the last trial but how. is. he. here????? How’s he not dead???? Wasn’t he just a figment of Wanda’s imagination? If he’s okay, where’s his brother???? I NEED TO KNOW NOW!!!!!!!

[abimess]

Theories for Wanda's future in the MCU

As I mentioned in my previous post (My thoughts on MoM [with spoilers!]), I have some theories about what happens to Wanda now. And since this theory involves a lot of what happened in MoM, I'll put it under the cut and with spoiler tags. You have been warned!

This theory involves a rumor about Marvel possibly planning to adapt The Children's Crusade (CC) in the MCU. For those who haven't read the comic, I'll highlight a few points that are important to the theory:

Billy has an unstable moment with his magic, where he ends up killing several enemies to protect Ted (his boyfriend). This leads the Avengers (and even the Young Avengers themselves) to believe that he may be one of the lost children of the Scarlet Witch

The Avengers want to contain Billy by imprisoning him, but he knows they'll end up doing to him what they did to Wanda so he runs away

In the meantime, Billy feels Wanda's magic and knows she's alive, even though no one believes him. Magneto appears and says he's right, asking the children to help him find his daughter.

They go to Mount Wundagore, but she's not there. They end up in Latveria, where they find Wanda but without her memories. There, she's about to marry Dr. Doom.

This is enough to understand the theory I want to propose. So let's see the points of MoM (and the MCU in general) that make me believe that CC can indeed happen (and how it can happen):

Wanda didn't die. Being a Nexus being and by the nature of her magic, Wanda is incapable of dying (or rather, remaining dead). Not to mention that in MoM itself we saw her endurance. She literally goes through that gong all broken and deformed and is completely fine. The Darkhold Fortress didn't kill her, but it may have been enough to do enough damage for her to be badly injured and lose her memories.

Billy and Tommy don't exist in the main MCU universe, but we have two possibilities. The first (and more unlikely) is that, as in the comics, the souls of the children created by Wanda in the Hex, "reincarnate" into other children. Or, the variant Billy and Tommy will somehow be brought into the MCU, there are several possibilities as to how that would go. Since Wanda (variant) has powers, it's possible to deduce that Billy (variant) does too

In the case of using Billy (variant), since he's already met Wanda (MCU), he "knows" Wanda's magic, he'd be able to "feel" her, as he did in the comics

There's strong evidence that Latveria has already appeared in the MCU, in the Moon Knight series, when he wakes up in that strange country and meets Harrow for the first time

Agatha may play the role of Magneto in the CC adaptation. In the MCU, no one knows more about the Scarlet Witch than Agatha, who has studied about her for years to try to find her. News of Wanda's sacrifice will go around the world, and Agatha is sure to hear about it. And she knows that Wanda can't die, that she must be somewhere, and she goes after her. So Agatha goes after the twins, because of Billy's magic, which is very similar to Wanda's. As Agatha said in WandaVision, "you're gonna need me".. Maybe to "bring her back". This could be addressed in Agatha: House of Harkness, not as the main theme, but maybe as a secondary theme or even in a post-credit scene.

So, these are the main points for my theory that there'll be a Children's Crusade adaptation for the MCU. I think Agatha's series can bring a lot of interesting things to Wanda's return, but I don't think this return will happen soon.

But what do you think? Do you agree with this theory or do you think it's completely crazy? Any points to add? I'd love to know your thoughts!