#ship and let ship! That’s what it means to proship!

[bvnneyrabbet]

Something I've been noticing is that quite a lot of people outside of the Forsaken fandom are bashing on Forsaken fans for simply watching or interacting with classic/niche roblox stuff that had been featured in Forsaken.

Here's some of my examples.

I once watched an old Roblox machinima from I think around 2015 with Shedletsky and Builderman in it. It was random and funny, and when I went to look in the comments I saw one comment that went something along the lines of:

"I hope the forsaken fans don't get to this stuff," and it read in a very snarky and condescending way. Like, pardon? Do you not want Forsaken fans to be interested in old Roblox? Do you not want them to know more about the characters featured in Forsaken, or are you too purist for that?

Just today I found out about the origins onto where the Geometry John Doe skin was from, and it came from a roblox ARG by the name of DeivyDoesTutorials33. I found one comment saying that they came from Forsaken and wanted to catch up on the series, reading:

"Came from Pwned and Forsaken and just caught up, but I wanna say I ABSOLUTELY ALREADY ADOOOOORE SERIES. please continue when you can this is so interesting and cool to watch!!!!!!"

And one of the replies of that comment read:

"PACKGOD HUMBLE THEM FOR TIS NOOB FORSAKEN COMMENT, pwned is cool though"

I know that reply was likely sarcastic malice, but seriously, do you not want people to be interested in content that was featured in Forsaken? Do you want them to go unknowing, and make the same mistakes that happened when Dream Game/Frozen Soul was featured in Forsaken?

The reason why Frozen Soul's characters, Nashatra, Eunoia, and Mafioso were confused for being Forsaken characters is due to Forsaken being extremely popular and Frozen Soul being way more niche and obscure, also something to note is that Forsaken is a very young game, with the March 18th incident only happening when Forsaken was 3 months old.

And this issue isn't even just with Roblox stuff, it's also happening in the Limbus/Project Moon community, with people in the fandom essentially stereotyping the Forsaken fandom. I may not be interested in Limbus, but I have seen a few tiktoks about it that were completely unrelated to Forsaken, but in the comments I've seen Project Moon fans just talking shit about Forsaken.

Yes, Forsaken does have a very iffy fandom, but listen. The issues with not just it's fandom but it's PLAYERBASE is due to many environmental factors, and it's not Forsaken's fault for it to be that way, but it can change but you're just not letting them change.

Forsaken is a very popular game, which means that people from other games, specifically competitive and toxic games such as TSB are gonna flock to Forsaken and misunderstand it entirely. From what I've seen, people who join Forsaken from those games see Forsaken as a competitive battle-type game, when in reality Forsaken is a survivors VS killers game.

Also, I've seen people from PCX bash on Forsaken too, one of my most recent examples is someone leaving the Forsaken fandom due to it's toxicity, and someone in the comments saying they should join the PCX fandom instead since they're leaving. It read very condescendingly and the best I could put it would be some religious person at your doorstep unannounced trying to indoctrinate you.

If you see someone leaving a certain fandom you don't like and you immediately start yelling at them, pointing at a flashy sign saying that they should instead join your "better" fandom is a really shitty move.

On the fandom side it's different, as when it comes to fandom it focuses on the characters and lore rather than the game. Some core aspects that happen in literally any fandom, not just "the bad ones" are; woobification, sexualization, mischaracterization, shipping, and unfortunately proshipping as much as I hate it.

Shipping is not a problem at all, and woobification is an internalized infantilization that's mainly irrational. Many people mistake shipping as a purely sexual thing, when in reality shipping is much more complex than that. I do not think they should fuck or kiss, they should be suffering intimately together and find comfort in the literal purgatory they're stuck in.

Mischaracterization is also something that happens with woobification, as woobification also causes mischaracterization and vice versa.

Elliot's mischaracterization makes him out to be a hotheaded individual who hates everyone, Two Time's mischaracterization either makes them out to be a twink who needs protecting or an insane foaming-at-the-mouth psychopath who would kill everyone, and 007n7's mischaracterization makes him a frail twink.

All of these are far from canon, when their actual personalities and lore are much deeper than that. I also think mischaracterization is also mixed with sexualization, as many artworks of Two Time that I've seen make them obviously sexualized and frankly make them look like a prostitute, with weirdly prominent boobs or thighs. It's not an issue if you give them a big chest or thighs, but it's an issue if you sexualize it.

Sexualization in fandom has been prominent ever since fandom began to exist, and it's not an issue unless it starts to intermingle with one's actual perception of a character. It's fine to say that 007n7 looks hot and that you'd fuck him, but it's an issue if you make that sexual aspect his entire being.

And of course, proshipping. I really do not like proshipping due to not just outside perception but also due to personal reasons that I will not disclose. Proshipping is an issue in my eyes, as even if it's fictional and "just pixels" it's still the romanticization of immoral things, and these things can also effect reality whether you like it or not.

I don't want to go on a whole rant about proshipping, but it's safe to say that every single fandom that you can think of has proshipping or just proshippers in it, and the Forsaken fandom as a whole do not support proshipping and you can even get banned in the discord and game for proshipping.

Also, have you ever heard of 007e7, as in the real person? You've likely heard that he left roblox due to a certain incident. So what happened? An adult proshipper made proship art of 007e7 and an actual minor and posted it in 007e7's discord server, which in turn made 007e7 leave the roblox community entirely. The Forsaken devs are supporting 007e7 and the victim due to this from what I've heard.

Something I know that's going on in the Forsaken fandom in a very specific part of it are a group of people trying to make the spawn cult a real thing, which is incredibly bad. There's a whole video going off of it if you're interested as I'm getting tired writing this. The Forsaken devs as well as the fandom absolutely do not support this, and you can get banned in both the discord and the game.

I presume as to why this is going on is due to Forsaken's large collection of neurodivergent, impressionable, and mentally unwell and unstable people. And I'm saying this as one myself. People like these often latch onto certain aspects of something they like and turn it into delusion.

I once did this with an older friend I once idolized and it was bad, but I eventually stopped interacting with them due to something they did. While my situation wasn't extreme, it was still pretty bad.

I feel sympathy to the people who are stuck in the spawn cult group, as it is incredibly toxic.

Now, for the Forsaken fans who confuse characters like c00lkidd, 007n7, or Shedletsky for their Forsaken counterparts. This is a smaller yet still prominent thing that's going on with some Forsaken fans, but it is slowly dying down.

This is when some people mistake characters outside of Forsaken like c00lkidd as a child. And this is also a similar issue to a general fandom issue, which is some people not just in the Forsaken fandom but also in other fandoms applying their own headcanons to characters or mistaking their own headcanons for canon. One of my examples are people saying that the Forsaken 1x1x1x1 is Shedletsky's child, when in reality 1x1x1x1 is the manifestation of Shedletsky's hatred, making their ship a mirrorship and not incest.

If you see a Forsaken fan who confuses a character like c00lkidd to be a child outside of Forsaken, such as hacker c00lkidd/007n7 or TR:UD c00lkidd, let them know that only the Forsaken c00lkidd is a child and that many of the versions of c00lkidd that are popular aren't. Forsaken c00lkidd and 007n7 as well as all the other roblox characters that aren't original are all just interpretations of them.

This is all why I believe research, both in-fandom lore research and outside general research is an incredibly good thing. I'm big for research and lore, as it both gives me more knowledge but also more content of them (and yaoi,) but not everyone does research and that can be a big problem. If you see anyone make mistakes like these for the love of god EDUCATE THEM INSTEAD OF HARASSING THEM.

Harassment does no good, it does not inform, it only drives them away and does the opposite of what you want them to do. If you harass a Forsaken fan for not knowing where Elliot was from, educate them and tell them that he came from Work At A Pizza Place. Do not call them newgen either.

I've been playing roblox since I was a tiny child, I was a WAAPP, NDS, and Normal Elevator diehard, but I didn't know who Elliot was, I didn't know who Stickmasterluke was or Shedletsky was.

I eventually found out who the main popular admins were over time, yet they were only a mere fraction of my memory as they weren't important to me. Hell, I've played Block Tales but cannot remember Shedletsky being in it. I cannot tell you how I found out about them since it was a gradual thing and I literally cannot remember when I discovered them. All I know is that I was and still am a big Stickmasterluke fan.

I didn't know who all the admins, hackers, myths, and mascots were the day I first touched roblox, I learned about them over time. I first discovered the Blox Watch through a speedpaint video, I remember hearing about c00lkidd a long time ago, I remember hearing about Guest 666, and that's all I remember.

Forsaken is what properly introduced me to them, and because of Forsaken I started researching on old roblox content.

Get a grip.

[im-not-buying-it-ether]

Gotta love the old man yaoi and it’s problematic circa 2014-era rebound relationship

[kiwisandpearls]

*gently takes your hand*

if you truly want fandom to start feeling fun again and not like stepping into a field of a bunch of hidden explosive mines, your going to have to accept that fandom is going to be full of fanart, fanfiction, ships, and people that you fucking hate.

you cannot say that people should allowed to make whatever fanart or fanfiction or like whatever ships they want to and then exclude certain ships or fanfiction or fanart. Because that’s how we got to the point of people not liking fandoms because of people’s strict definitions on fanart, fanfiction, and ships that are ok and those that are not.

i’m not saying you should just simply stop being uncomfortable with ships/fanfiction/fanart that does make you feel squicked out or uncomfortable. There’s a lot of fanfiction/fanart/ships out there that squick me out. But that’s where it’s important to remember the saying “don’t like; don’t read”. You found the fanfiction you hate; don’t read it. You found this fanart that squicks you out; don’t look at. You found this ship you hate; block/don’t look at the ship’s tag.

Running fanartists, fanwriters, and shippers out of fandoms for making fanworks you deem as “immoral” or “literally illegal” will not help. Simply put, you’re just making fandom seem restrictive.

[pro-sipper]

"- 'proshippers' or whatever the fuck you people are calling yourselves now -"

It's. It's still just "proshippers". It's you guys (antis) and the fence-straddlers trying to have their cake and eat it too that keep creating random new phrases to "other" and distance themselves from us. We're here, unchanging, same as ever, in our corner with our silly little stories. We aren't the ones interested in coming up with 500 new labels for people who know that fiction isn't reality.

[animangalover-writes]

People who can't comprehend crack ships because "there's literally nothing there, what are you going crazy over???" have no whimsy in their lives. Yall. THATS PART OF THE FUN!!! MAKING UP RANDOM DYNAMICS!!! LOOKING AT THE POTENTIAL!!!!

People should enjoy crackships more tbh

[s0fter-sin]

being on twitter and seeing 18yr olds with “minors dni” in their bios is the weirdest thing ever

[thwipsthrown]

'proshippers dni' tell me you havent learned media literacy without telling me

[greenapplebling]

It's incredible the amount of antis I've seen lately that actually have a very proship mindset but they classify themselves as antishipper bc they think proshipper = pedophile

Idk how to tell them that a lot of proshippers like me are also repulsed by adult x child ships or ships that include incest, etc... but we don't go witch-hunting for it

We block and/or filters the tags out so we don't have to see it. No harassment needed

Uh- are you aware of the meaning of proship?

Proship has never meant anything except a combination of three ideas:

Ship and let ship (your ships don't harm me and vice-versa) and YKINMK (your kink is not my kink, and that's okay; my kink stories don't harm you and vice-versa)

Harassment over fiction is not acceptable

Censorship of fiction is not acceptable either

Any other definitions are made by antis, not proshippers, and are an attempt at revisionism to justify harassment based on false claims.

[asses-to-ashes]

The proship label says nothing about what content a person consumes.

Proship means you have a "ship and let ship" mentality. The "pro" in proship doesn't stand for "problematic."

"Proship means you ship adult x minor." No it doesn't. Proship means you won't harass or belittle someone who does. Proshippers don't assume the moral values of another person based on fanfiction.

There are Proshippers who are uncomfortable with age gap ships, there are Proshippers who are uncomfortable with shipcest, etc. There isn't a human being on the planet who isn't squicked out by some topics and Proshippers aren't a monolith.

[pro-sipper]

Even the nicest, most polite and genuinely curious anons that come into my inbox asking about proship things all have a common misconception about what it means to be a proshipper.

The thing I see most frequently is someone saying that they personally aren't comfortable with a lot of content under the proship umbrella and does that make them an anti or not?

When in reality the whole idea of a "proship umbrella" of content isn't really a thing. The whole concept of a proshipper is just a "ship and let ship" mentality.

I know sometimes it seems like all proshipping means is shipping rape, abuse, incest, etc but that's because those are some very extreme examples of ship dynamics. They're the ones that get brought up the most. "Well I'm not comfortable with _____" or from antis, "You're disgusting if you ship _____".

It's not a requirement of the community to personally ship all those things. It's just that "ship and let ship" includes every type of ship, including the extremely toxic ones.

I'll reiterate that I'm proship through and through, but the majority of my personal ships are very tame. Lots of best friends to lovers, high school sweethearts, etc. That's just what I personally prefer.

But I also know that someone's ships aren't the be all end all tell of a person's character, and certainly not an indication of what they think is good, healthy, or what should be normal in real life.

At the end of the day, proshipping just means ship and let ship. Don't like? Don't read. And do NOT harass real people over fictional characters. If you agree with all that, regardless of what you personally ship, then welcome to the proship community!

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

Is anyone gonna explain to people that ‘proship’ does not actually mean ‘problematic shipping’ or ‘problematic ship’ or are we just going to let this misinformation spread some more?

It means pro-shipping. The prefix pro, meaning ‘supporting.’ In favor of shipping.

It only became a defined position after anti-shippers who initially identified themselves as anti-a specific ship started harassing creators they didn’t like, doxxing them, and trying to get them fired from their irl jobs for shipping reasons around 2014-2016.

So people who had been in fandom for long enough to know where that kind of rhetoric leads (ffnet purges, LJ strikethru, as well as the direct harms caused by doxxing) observed this increasing trend of harassment and rallied to say ‘oh you lot are anti-shipping, as in opposed to certain ships? Well in that case, we are pro-shipping, because we follow the adage of ship and let ship.’

Before that point, it was just basic fandom etiquette to not bother people who ship stuff you don’t like, and to understand that if something squicks you out, it’s not the fault of the people who made it.

If someone says they are pro-ship, it means fuck all about what they actually enjoy in fiction.

It just means they’re opposed to harassing creators for making content that doesn’t cause tangible harm to real people. A better way to understand the ideological position is being anti-harassment and anti-censorship.

I have a lot of ships I find disgusting blacklisted so I don’t have to see them. But I am not interested in forcing people to comply with what I think is gross. That’s what it means.

Curate your online experience, and understand that your disgust response is not a defensible moral indicator or a justification to harass, deplatform, and dox fan writers.

[kittyplushy]

This is for the self shippers whose self ship story doesn't start out all lovey dovey. This is for flawed f/os, grieving, ugly, angry, and mean ones. The ones who step on your feet, the ones who talk over you, the ones that boss you around, the cold hearted ones. This one is for the hurt feelings, the sadness or the forced docility. This one is for those whose f/os took a while to get around.

For whatever circumstance, they do. They do look you in the eyes and they apologize. Of course words won't fix all wounds. But they mellow out, they try mending wounds they themselves caused, they own up or grieve those words. Every time you cry internalizing what they said previously they do everything to fix or to mold into something positive. They want you to associate their words now with apology. With love. With admiration. With care.

They lay awake with you thinking of new days and memories to fold over the hurtful ones. The days where they were so callous but now they're dedicated to changing and improving. Their hugs feel protective and whole, to shield you from even themselves.

The hurt can't be erased but your f/o is trying, trying so so so hard to let you know they're getting better and that they'll love you better.

🍓🍓 PROSHIP DNI 🍓🍓

THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT ROMANTICIZING ABUSE. THIS IS ABOUT TRYING TO HEAL PAST HURT, BUT ALSO LIVING WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF PAST HURT.

[marauders-hotline]

so many antis are proship/profic and in denial it’s honestly funny.

if you are against media censorship, you are profic! if you believe no one should be able to pick and choose what is allowed in media, you are profic!

the biggest ideals of proshippers are: ship and let ship, your kink is not my kink, and being anti-censorship. that’s IT guys.

proship does not inherently mean you ship incest. proship does not inherently mean you like toxic/abusive relationship dynamics. proship does not inherently mean anything other than the 3 ideals i just shared.

proship is just anti-harassment and anti-censorship!

[marshemillow]

For the millionth time, you do not have to call yourself "proship," but if you refuse to stand in solidarity with proshippers, then you are excusing harassment. Sorry if you don't like hearing that.

"I don't like sexists OR feminists, because they BOTH just keep making discourse about insular bullshit that doesn't really matter! I think we should have equality, but I also think SOME women should be subjected to misogyny, but only if they're bad obviously!!! Why can't these two groups just agree to a compromise and stop fighting???" Like you have to be joking, right? Please tell me you are joking.

"But fascism is a real problem that can't be encompassed by fandom labels-" I NEVER WANTED TO BE AN ACTIVIST!!! I LITERALLY JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS FUCKING HOBBY BACK!!! STOP TRYING TO FORCE ME TO BE A REAL ACTIVIST AGAINST MY FUCKING WILL!!! I'M IN DANGER HERE TOO!!! IT'S NOT THAT CRAZY FOR ME TO WANT AN ESCAPE FROM REAL PROBLEMS!!! NOT EVERY SPACE HAS TO BE FULL OF REAL POLITICS HOLY SHIT YOU ARE THE REASON WHY EVERYONE HAS ACTIVIST BURNOUT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST LET PEOPLE HAVE A FUCKING BREAK!!!

Proshippers are kind to me and like to write fiction. Antis want to skin me alive with a vegetable peeler and then rape my dead body. Do you seriously want to "both sides" this bullshit??? You really think it's both groups' fault that this wank won't end???

"But these labels are meaningless because nobody can agree on a definition!" Literally every proshipper gives the exact same definition. Seriously, proshippers outnumber antis in fandom more than 10 to 1, if a thousand people inside the group give the same definition and ten people outside the group give conflicting definitions, how can you seriously just throw up your hands and say "nobody can agree on a definition!!!" like yes we do, I don't know what you're talking about.

"But proshippers harass people too!" And I am against that, but you can't deny that the foundation of the anti mindset is built upon the idea that people who write bad fanfiction deserve to be harassed. They literally CELEBRATE when people kill themselves. They've fed needles to people before!!! Yes there are good antis and there are bad proshippers, but to act like that means both sides are just as bad is fucking absurd and I genuinely don't know how people can't see it.

"But there's nuance!!!" Please tell me what nuance there is between harassing people for their ships and not doing that. Please tell me what nuance there is between censoring "gross" fiction and not doing that. Have you ever heard of the Civil War in the United States? You can't just crowbar a middle ground into an issue where no middle ground exists! Some harassment is still harassment! Some censorship is still censorship!

"But I don't like underage/incest/whatever bad fiction!" Cool! Neither do I! I still think it shouldn't be censored!

"But we have to draw a line somewhere!" Yes, and that line is whatever hurts real people. Any fiction that doesn't require hurting real people to write should be allowed. If Game of Thrones can't normalize incest, then NOTHING CAN.

"But lolicon is pedophilia!" Do you know how hard it is for CSA survivors in real life to hear that the worst thing that ever happened to them is just as bad as watching cartoons? They're already subjected to feelings of being "ruined" because of purity culture, don't insult them on top of that!

"But-" IF YOU REFUSE TO STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH PROSHIPPERS, THEN YOU ARE EXCUSING HARASSMENT.

The least you could do is stop fucking talking about it. You know, the same thing you do with everything else you don't understand? You clearly don't understand the issue, so just drop it!!!

[justproshiprants]

Buddy did you not notice my blog name? Ignoring and blocking what you don't what to see is the basis of the proship position.

Antis need to understand that there is a big and rather important difference between, "This thing makes me uncomfortable and I do not want to see it" and "This thing makes me uncomfortable and so it should never exist and anyone who disagrees is an awful person".

The normal reaction to seeing content, especially fictional content, you don't like is to block that person and/or the tags they use, not send that person death threats.

[messrsrarchives]

tiktok has been having a censorship debate for like two weeks now and i need people to understand that "as long as it's not illegal" is not what we mean by fandom etiquette.

there is no ethical level of censorship because when these spaces get taken down for the "immoral subjects"? you will come down with those. when ff.net got scrubbed clean it wasn't just cest fics and proship content etc etc, it was unrelated works because there is no standard of immorality. not here. we lost tens of thousands of works because of puritanical arguments and discussions about morality, and it wasn't just the ones you're debating about.

there is no ethical level of censorship and as long as these works are tagged correctly? you cannot get mad about their existence. you can disagree! you can say you personally do not engage with them, but you Cannot say "ship and let ship until it's -" because that is not how it works.

and i'm not perfect! when i first joined online fandom spaces i was very much like "if you have to change the ages then it's disgusting" "they're related" etc etc and whilst i still don't tend to engage with those themes? we cannot be censoring them either. not without losing these spaces.

it starts with you disagreeing with these things, and it ends with queer media as a whole because there is No Ethical Censorship.

this is less a discussion about fandom etiquette, and more a discussion of Having Fandom Spaces. i beggeth you, don't be part of helping what happened to ff.net happen again 😖

don't like, don't read - including "illegal" and "immoral" things. if they're tagged correctly, you can avoid them.

we also, less of a fandom note and more just a general media note, need to explore these things. yes, there are 100% times where these things get glorified. but on a general basis? we need to explore immoral things in media. we need to explore things to understand them - i'm thinking here about well-known books like the handmaid's tale getting banned because it's Important and it Explains what's going on right now. i'm thinking about morally grey characters/historical figures and how we need to be able to look at their motivations/backstory/etc not necessarily for justification, but for understanding and prevention. even in real life cases, they look at the backstory of the individual because that is how we form and improve preventative techniques and resources.

there is no ethical level of censorship and i've been there, i know it feels good to be like "this is illegal this is bad", you feel like you're doing some good in the world but you're actually causing harm unknowingly to These Spaces.

it is 2025, we do Not need proshipper discourse right now. arguably the worst time for people to be debating what's immoral to read/write about. all censorship ends up as mass censorship, and i really need yall to understand that

block the tags, exclude them from your searches, block the people posting them. do whateverrrr you have to do to curate your own fandom space but for the love of everythingggg, don't be part of the reason we lose these spaces as a whole.