#shes not even a rose or alt of puppet whos a dirk

[crowsncaws]

@thalassicapollyon replied to your post “annoying caw...”:

Unless you're a newborn, you should probably have that checked out.

​i was going to make a joke about acting like a newborn but this made me laugh to much to actually be able to make my joke how dare you

[house-bound]

Mother and Father trauma in Homestuck

Cw for abuse mentions

The way I read Homestuck is that everything that happens in it was a result of an initial trauma of the cherub twins, the Callies, and the specific circumstances around their birth.

First Cherub reproduction is blackrom, and according to Aranea and Callie, who might I remind you, are biased and not completely reliable, which means that snake hate sex started it, and the male cherub, their dad, “lost” the battle and as a result laid the egg (and supposedly, that is what defined Caliborn’s and Calliope’s sways, the male twin is chaotic and the female twin is passive because the dad was the one to lay the egg instead of the mom). Also notice how 1-Cherub sex is a fight and 2-The loser of that fight is the one to lay the egg. 

(The parts that matter to me here are around this page)

This backstory just sort of explains why Caliborn and Calliope are like that, how Calliope takes after the mom who also had green blood and Caliborn the red blooded father, the mother left as soon as she was done, while the dad had to look for somewhere to lay the egg, after that they were “Raised” by Gamzee, who just sort of chained both to a house, and when Caliborn emerged he insisted on being a father and just refused to leave.

That pattern is important because I want to move on to the Beta kids’s households, specifically the Strilondes as the Callies were really attached to those two.

STRILONDE HOUSEHOLDS

Rose lives on a secluded home, always being affected by rain, it is big and vastly empty, as well as really dark.

Dave lives on a big city, always affected by the hot bright sun, it is a small apartment and is just cluttered and really bright.

Rose’s mom doesn’t appear a lot, she hides away on her lab, and even when she’s there physically her mind is wondering somewhere else (even on her date with Dad it’s remarked how she seems to be spacing out), while Bro not only has cameras that record Dave’s every move and sometimes into his puppet site, but he physically appears there to beat Dave up frequently.

Their households are opposites, rain on a huge empty mansion and sun on a tiny cluttered apartment, Calliope was closer to Roxy and Caliborn to Dirk.

I also want to point out that their attitudes are sort of opposite: Mom is absent, physically or otherwise, while Dirk is present, as in, he is controlling and is always spying on Dave, he is already here.

It feels like this absent mother and present father are stand ins for the Callies’s parents, a mom that just fucked off into nowhere, a father that is there even when not desired (that being mostly Gamzee instead of their cherub dad).

Not only that but those two contrast in that they’re both abusive households but through different means, negligence and physical abuse, both that affect their kids on ways the story details a lot.

Those are the biggest examples but I believe there are other examples of Absent Mothers and Present Fathers

THE OTHER HOUSEHOLDS

HIC liked to delegate her job to those below her, she was negligent in that she just lets the clowns do her job for her.

Some other parents were forced into absence because they were killed, Nanna, Grandma English, Roxy’s and Dave’s guardians.

And opposed to that Dad Egbert and Crocker are really present on their kids lives, to the point where June is annoyed and Jane will be locked in her room for her safety.

Similarly, Calliborn and Calliope evolve into extreme versions of those too, Lord English becomes a controlling ever present “father time” for Alternia and all the universes after it, while Alt Calliope becomes “Absent” when she dies and spends her after-life on the middle of nowhere waiting for her moment.

They were both familiar with the Absent Mother and the Present Father through their biological mom and Gamzee, so that was later replicated through the ages and universes of Homestuck that they influenced.

On an aside, Grandpa and Poppop are both stuffed and put into very visible parts of their households, the pattern is Absent Mothers who are either dead or negligent and Present Fathers that are controlling and orchestrating things/controlling, Grandpa and Poppop are both dead, but still played a hand on many events of the game, they are dead but their bodies are at the center of their households still haunting their kids as if they were really there, they are dead/Absent but still there/Present, Jade acts as if Grandpa is alive but Jane does not. They are both between being a mother and a father figure and that screams gender to me.

“Conclusion”

These are scattered thoughts, maybe I’ll come back to them but I just needed to conclude that the Callies manipulated various events through Homestuck to replicate what they knew as kids, specifically Caliborn who had to deal with a pushy father figure that would not leave and orchestrated events on his life, and Calliope who is forced to be absent through a lot of her and her friends’s lives as well as her alternate self.

I also have some other thoughts in regards to how SBURB itself works? That would imply that Lord English changed how the game worked to further reflect his trauma/his parents history.

During the Reckoning, the Black King launches the meteors towards Skaia after winning against the White King, which I’m not saying what this image looks like but I need to say that for the Cherubs, the loser carries the egg. The “egg” of the universe in SBURB is the tadpole that is launched into Skaia.

I have a lot more thoughts but that covers it? It’s just that understanding Homestuck’s repetitions as traumatized kids replicating things they knew is just what makes the most sense to me for understanding many elements. Also something about gender, how Caliborn’s father lost the “fight” and he later became obsessed with masculinity and enforced it through time and space, as if he wants to make up for a sort of emasculation?

And the gender thing just echoes through so much of the characters, to think that this cherub adult who lost the fight would be repeated through other men who “failed at masculinity” Like Jake who becomes so frustrated he straight up says he doesn’t want to be a man, how he is almost forced-kiss Aranea, how Roxy forces a kiss on Dirk, those echoes seem to be representative of the initial Cherub fight that created the twins.

How so many homestuck characters are unhappy with being forced to fulfill their gender roles (Vriska dressing up as a fairy, Kanaya tying her self-worth to the matriorb, Jake’s entire everything, Dirk not allowing himself to be emotionally open, Jade bottling up her frustrations) it seems like something that affects all of them, they all seem to be trying to “make up” for the thing that kickstarted the universe, a female cherub and a male cherub’s fight that ended up witht he male “loosing”, and by loosing we mean he was the one that laid the egg, but how does Aranea even knows that? How does she know that loosing means they have to carry an egg?

So what I take from this is that the Cherub parents were neutral in all of this, we only learn from them from Aranea, she says cherubs only have blackrom, that they fight as their mating, that the looser of that fight lays the egg, but we are not sure of that, Aranea also calls Signless and Disciple’s relationship a matespritship while another source describes it as beyond the quadrants.

The final picture I have is that we had this transgressive thing happen in a past beyond any character’s reach, the male cherub lays the egg, every character has a sort of subconscious collective memory of it and since it defies what they know of gender, through a specifically human lens, through things like the Mother Grub, and they all react to it by trying to bring balance back to how they think the world should be, how Caliborn thinks the world should be, paradoxically he tries to use a cis-normative understanding of gender that he later helps create through his influence as Lord English.

So yeah I just have a lot of thoughts, Lord English creates bigotry which later influences himself when he was Caliborn, who one day becomes Lord English and recreates that bigotry, which later influences himself and- it’s a snake eating it’s own tail, all of Homestuck is.

[theorynexus]

59:  The Continuing Adventures of Dave and Roxy, as well as the concerns assailing them.

Yay, the Charleston!   (Boo the fact that if Jake’s targeted by a sniper, Dave can’t so easily react by slowing down time and tackling him out of the way, or whatever!)

***sagenods, despite never having had anything like his own experience, myself***

It’s good to see that in quantifiable terms, there. Also good to see Dave’s awkward insecurity on the matter never faded away during those recognition stages. It makes it at least 1000% funnier. Ask Colonel Sassacre.

HA!   Also:  I love to see that paranoia in action, ramping up the comedy value even more and legitimizing my previous statement that this was funny, which some people would consider incredibly rude, probably! It is also interesting to think of the fact that the 30-70% enumeration suggests he goes back and forth as far as which of the two sexes he is apparently considering legitimate “targets” of his interest (troll biology/sexuality didn’t cease to be probably quite different from human reproductive systems, or anything, and Calliope/cherubs in general may very well be hermaphroditic either in a simultaneous or sequential manner, so I obviously have to recognize them here).  Obviously, there’s also the possibility he’s just not thinking of such other sexes due to is human upbringing on earth, were intersex members of society are relatively rare, and thus the idea that there are only two sexes tends to widely be embraced by (most, but increasingly not all) members of the Western society/civilization he dwelt in. I don’t blame him for his upbringing: everyone brings their own baggage into their later life.

Yeah... the Stralondes bring some interesting genetic factors to the table. I am not sure how much that actually directly influences things. Part of the issue is probably Bro’s impact on his life, which exposed Dave to a great deal of sexual material and almost undeniably stunted his growth in weird ways.   (Note: I do not suggest that his apparent self-labeled bisexuality is a result of his growth being stunted, regardless of the fact that one’s early life does indeed have an impact on one’s later identity; rather, I am merely suggesting that Bro’s influences, while dramatically increasing his capacity for survival in SBURB, and thus technically being instrumental to everything that followed, gave him psychological issues which everyone must admit made him struggle quite a bit over the years.   It may be likely that he would have developed the same sexual dispositions regardless of the scars Bro inflicted on him [both emotional and physical], but we can never truly know, for Time is weird: issues are entangled.)

Dirk, you named yourself after a Platonic work!   How can you not understand how great and important relationships which reach to the point of bonds between souls and transcend the physicality of sexual relations can be?!?!?!

GAH, I just... sometimes, you really can’t expect reasonable thoughts from this guy, can you?

On the other hand, let’s just all take a moment to celebrate the irony of “... even my harshest critics would never accuse me of such cruelty” from Dirk Strider. Best. Fricking. bundle of words that ever emerged from his mouth, probably.

I would argue that even without the opposition, displays of gender are by no means culturally vestigial in the same way that fashion generally is not. It’s a direct reflection of the soul, projected outward.  (Like a person’s hat, or shirt. [Dirk having a hat on his shirt was not just a reflection of the fact that he was “kid bro,” or whatever, but was actually an early suggestion of his Heart aspect.]) Obviously, this is limited by the resources, imagination, and environment/occupation of the individual involved, and there are in fact numerous things which are more important for a person in reality, but that doesn’t mean that it’s something to be dismissed like that altogether.

***cough projected future dramatic irony, cough***   Also ironic insofar as I am not 100% sure he actually cares about Roxy’s identity/gender issues so much as he might find them annoying and boring to be dragged through. Somewhat ironic+hilarious for a fellow Heart player to find this kind of thing unbearable, if so.   Maybe it’s just the Prince in him.

It is good of you to be concerned for her well-being, I suppose. Considering it is your own identity that is at issue, here, I would suggest you hold a little more weight, but regardless, this is good.  As for the matter of your transformation and dissatisfaction with your hair as it is now:  I suppose Dave’s step by step relation of his own journey as made quite an impression on you.   Hopefully, you do not feel jealous, but rather, patiently continue to contemplate your own path and, as Alt!Calliope suggests you might think, head toward a more potent and firm+real understanding of your own identity+self.  It is okay to be uncertain and questioning, for now.  I’m sure the shakiness of first steps will give way to confidence naturally in due time. These things are not easy, obviously, but reaching out to someone who’s had similar struggles is a good choice: it will likely make things easier, especially since he’s someone you can dependably put your trust in, despite his flippant, awkward attitude in general. (Also: on a more abstract note, it is interesting to see Roxy ascribing meaninglessness to her hair choice, and expressing lack of understanding on her identity issues. Very tight writing, on Hussie’s part, making the kids reflect their aspects and struggle so keenly with things relating to them.)

Given the fact that Cherubs naturally have very violent sex and spend eons before their first (and only?) sexual encounter, that’s not really much of an insult, if “virgin” should ever be considered one to begin with.  Pompous is definitely more accurate and applicable, though. Also:  Hooray, actually saying things, and getting the size of his text back again! (I am not actually really cheering for Dirk so much as I am finding it interesting for the sake of the ongoing conflict acting as an undercurrent to the storytelling, right now. It’s truly fascinating to see two narrators fighting amongst themselves like this! )

Everything about this (especially Alt!Calliope’s confidence and her “’human tanties’” line) is incredibly amusing. I love it.

Lil Cal might beg to differ. But that is a complicated tangent which does not deal with this version of Dirk directly.     (Preemptive Edit:  Also funny because of the fact that Doc Scratch is literally a walking, talking puppet with a Dirk inside.)

Yes, justifying toying with your friends because you know them and have investment in their lives therefore is indeed very logical, reasonable, and highly rational of you to do. Thank you for this brilliant insight into the human condition.

Oh, so this is now a reference to the Charles Whitman shootings at the University of Texas?   That is a very interesting and curious choice to portray Dirk’s derangement with, especially considering the earlier statement about Dirk knowing solitude in a similar manner to Alt!Calliope’s own knowledge of it.    (Almost appropriate, considering she basically destroyed the fabric of Paradox Space to kill her brother in cold blood [the way revenge and Eternity are best served], but I guess this is a digression~)

I wonder if he really intends this, or if it is in fact a ruse in order to time things perfectly such that he can in fact shoot Alt!Calliope in Jade’s body without her initially expecting it. Particularly since, if I am thinking of the correct gun, it actually shoots portals that allow for ridiculously long range shots that would normally be impossible.

Wow, that is cold, Alt!Calliope, throwing Rose under the bus like that.   Also:  I suddenly have “ Do the impossible, see the invisible. Row! Row! Fight the power! Touch the untouchable, break the unbreakable. Row! Row! Fight the power!” playing in my head, as if this were a flash animation. That thought process really puts things in perspective, if this is supposed to be  (at least to him) a tale of Dirk fighting against causality and the will of Paradox Space to make things become irrelevant and to fade out of perception.

Guaranteed to blow [somebody’s] mind.

She warned you about---

History repeating itself.

Such anime. Such wonders.  Man, this is really fricking interesting, seeing Dirk and Calliope actually going at it on a twinned physical and metaphysical battlefield!   It’s like we’re finally being shown a cherub predomination contest in action!    (I wonder if Alt!Calliope will eventually fall into caliginous attraction for him. This would be quite amusing.)

Wow, that was probably a bad move taken at an inopportune time. The question is: Is she forced to make that by laws of narrative relevance, or is it a purposeful decision on her part to spitefully turn away from him, despite the likely imminent consequences. On the other hand: This could be a very powerful and shrewd tactic on her part to recruit Dave to serve her purposes. Given his presence at the event, he could either intercept Dirk (I almost called him Bro-- gah!) or save Jake, if led properly. If she is particularly spiteful, she could use him as a sacrificial piece and have him take the bullet instead of Jake, which could be very, very painful to Dirk.

Huh. Despite Terezi’s comment about onions not making people cry, Trolls are inherently averse to them in the same way that dogs are to chocolate, huh? Also, people are Ogres, and Homestuck is Shrek. This is definitely the unadulterated truth. Additionally:   Pffft.  It seems that the idea that the Green Sun Black Hole’s presence making Roxy’s own void less effective for everyone might be true!   Or, alternatively, Dave just knows enough to make the guess. Or both, possibly.

Pffft. She’s oblivious to her own inscrutability!   Perfect. XD That said: YES!   HECK YES!  HECK FRICKING YES, ROXY SHADES!!!   :’D (Oh, and shades are a symbol of the Void [not just because they keep out light, but because they block the eyes, which are symbolic of Light and Heart, but more importantly for this, Light], the same way that alcohol and oceans are. Somewhat surprising that she didn’t have a pair of them already, at this point, if we’re being totally honest.)

Yeah, if it was not obvious that the method of Alt!Calliope informing Dave of this threat would be subtle like that rather than a direct statement/command, then I don’t know what is obvious to you guys.

This, psychologically+sociologically, makes a great deal of sense, considering humans seem to have a natural propensity for feeling distasteful towards some sort of “other,” regardless of what it is. Thus, there’s a double-edged sword involved, quite logically, and somewhat saddeningly, to the otherwise open and accepting mentality that humans seem to have socially adopted in their new environment.       At the same time, the way that this is delivered is horribly hilarious (tragi-comically so), and I’m barely sorry that I find that to be the case.

Yes. Yes, it was cute, indeed. Sad to see it go, somewhat.  But his question is incredibly silly and very awkward, just as is natural for Dave. Thus, I find it acceptable and in-character, not insulting or narrow-minded, as some might.

***laughs alongside them, for indeed, this has all become quite funny, despite the fact that it is a “distaction [sic.]” from the seriousness at hand***

FRICKING...  DANGIT, ALT!CALLIOPE, IF THIS TURNS OUT THE WAY YOUR WORDING IMPLIES IT WILL, I SWEAR...!!!

Okay, so you seem to have just used it as a convenient threat, and worded things such that he had time that he didn’t necessarily clearly have in order to basically take two actions instead of one.   (His jump to save Karkat could have cost Jake his life, or Dave his.)

As I was going to say, but was prevented from doing due to a belief that it would be better to include these lines too:   His statement about her being right about many things clearly, while initially making it seem that he was indeed going to take the shot, heroic death chance or no, almost certainly ensures that this is actually a subterfuge on his part (similar to but a reversal of Caliborn replacing the hats on the king and queen: in this case, he is switching his OPPONENT’s chess pieces’ appearances, making her think he’s targeting one, but is actually going for the other, more crucial target [as should be obvious, given the thematic similarities between Dirk and Caliborn, and the tendency of events in Paradox Space to rhyme with one another]).

Check.

Indeed, indeed. Alt!Calliope senses a similar pattern, quite sensibly, which is fitting with her role as Muse, and her understanding of it. Unfortunately, while she picked up correctly one one such similarity/resonance, it seems she’s missed some others.   I do appreciate this comment on immortality, though. I had not actually thought about that, and this makes his potential actions somewhat more benign. (Not that it would render his later actions as such.)

I really fricking appreciate the “no guts no glory” comment coming right before this extremely gutsy reveal on his part. By saying as such, he could easily be ruining his plan, but he just goes ahead and says it anyway. XD BEAUTIFUL writing, right there.

It was less intelligent of him to narrate his own action so long-windedly, but completely in-character.  It gave her the time required to interject like that. That said: I bet he’s going to fire via voice command or something like that.

And THAT, my friends, is why you don’t underestimate your opponents, and you should not announce your belief in the futility of their actions to their faces like a stereotypical villain would!   Also:  WILLPOWER!!!

...   Yet this does not end the page, and despite the fact that it would be a magnificent point to end the post, I will not do so.  I will first say that I was almost certain Dirk was actually in fact successfully hiding something from her when he was messing with his equipment/tech there [and great foresight on his part, to think this far ahead, by the way], and secondly, shall end the post with the actual page’s ending:

I appreciate his continued devotion to realism in sound effects and whatnot.

To be fair, he could be using that term technically and literally, here, but I also very much do believe that he was not, which is unfortunate. v.v Thus, Alt!Calliope’s question is quite valid.   Though my guess is that Dirk’s response will be something along the lines of, “She chose death and you over life with me.”  This might make her a “bitch” in the same way that men in prison who are raped are reported to be one, rather than the typical insulting-particularly-to-women version of the phrase. Regardless, this is uncalled for. ~~~ It is nice to see the fact that Alt!Calliope’s text is getting smaller, now, by the way.

I don’t appreciate this mockery/show boating. It’s quite abrasive and distasteful. I do see it as being rather in-line with what I’d imagine his character would do, given the frustrating situation he was previously put in, though. Also:  This very much resembles what happened when he was first suppressed. There is much hilarity to be found in that, all things considered. Alt!Calliope was definitely a bit more benign in some ways and objective (most of the time), but that doesn’t mean that there weren’t some major similarities between narrators. Additionally:   I do quite love this example of narrative vs. physical action.  I only remember Caliborn/LE and Hussie ever engaging in that sort of contest before.  Well... you could say that there were a few examples of it with the Exiles and Kids/Trolls (like what Bec did to PM’s station, or Sollux’s defense against CD), but they don’t really feel like they were quiiitee substantive enough to count. Regardless!: Very refreshing and interesting, this style of conflict is! Thanks, AH! ... Buuuut there is just a liiitttle tiny bit left over on the page to comment on, so I’ll get to that.  (Oh, also, I totally imagine Jade falling asleep in the classic manner she used to before entering the session, just slumping over with her hands splayed out under her~)

Okaaayyy... if you say so. The fact that tranquilizers can be lethal in doses that are too high does not jive well with your uncertainty, though.   Oh, and also:  WHAAAAT?!  You’re going to leave?!  This is a completely unexpected---   Okay, I can’t and won’t keep up that charade when admittedly the couple of pages I read of Homestuck^2 before freaking out and stopping showed a weird-shaped ship that looked vaguely like a flying fish.    I had tried to forget about that, but the memory suddenly rushed back to me as I read that bit of narration.

Ehh?   Is this suggesting that the Candy epilogue is chiefly narrated by Alt!Calliope?   I mean... it would sortof work out logically, given her very pro-Free Will stance, and the association of Calliope with preferring Candy as food... .

Hmm. This further supports that notion. Iiiif that is the case, Dirk stands as the proxy for LE/Caliborn even moreso than otherwise was clearly the case.  In retrospect, this makes it pretty gosh darned funny that his head got chopped off along with Jack English and Jack Noir (who, holding English’s “lordly sceptre,” and holding reign over the Felt, was OBVIOUSLY an English stand-in, as well  [I still giggle at his sudden use of it like a horse {hitcher} in the middle of the fight]).       Very, veeeeerrry interesting. ~~~ I wonder if Dirk was testing the idea of interjecting himself back into the narrative when he said, “Jake’s ass is mine,” twice, earlier. Oh, and credit to Forgotten Homestuck Facts for the pic compilation, earlier. 

[hootpoop12]

Ok, Meat route feelings:

Ok, this is...by FAR the superior route just saying. Not. That that is saying much seeing what the candy route was but every time I fall into despair over this I just grit my teeth and think about how parts of meat weren’t terrible pfft

-Lets get the johnrezi out of the way cause that’s kinda my thing. So. Good shit pfft I will admit I was little worried that Calliope and mainly Dirk could have tampered with them a bit but I’m pretty sure for the most part they didn’t? Dirk kinda made John feel weird post coital which kinda pissed me off but other than that. Them feelings 100% legit. These two people genuinely love each other. In both routes John’s thought would ALWAYS drift back to Terezi and Terezi’s only comfort was having John’s body with her after it all. Their romance is both cathartic because they are two MISERABLE people who only have each other to understand their feelings and fucking tragic because in candy all he had was a picture and in meat they had a physical confirmation of their feelings only for it to be voyeur’d and then ripped away by fucking John’s death. If there is more to come- I can only image there is- Terezi and Vriska will hopefully somehow team up and look for a way to revive John. Even If their romance was fleeting like 95% ship in Homestuck their support and care for one another is fucking REAL. It was straight UP the only real thing in Candy and I will fight others who say differently. 

-John going back in time to round everyone up felt weird. For the first time they all really felt like children and them all fighting lord english? WOW. Ouch. Especially Dave?? This Dave was the last to go and in the most brutal fucking way?? Kid had to watch Rose and Jade die and still fought pretty well, though. which goes to show Dave is a fucked up dude but when it comes to shit that needs to get done he can hold his own. Thaaaaaats why Adult Dave in both epilogues kinda grated on me a little? Not to fucking say UGH Dave is now more healed and stable this sucks!! I’m more saying there’s a lot of fics that whumpify Dave into a soft boi who too pure for this world and it slightly reminds me of it. That’s probably more of me just being to attached to MY view and headcanons of Dave, though, and maybe I need to let that go a little? 

-Davekat finally fucking happened. Ten years is too long of a slow burn for me I’m sorry lmao seriously I sound like Dirk when I say this but I really thought they sac’d up during the meteor and were already in a relationship. Dave’s whole conversation with John on the lilypad.......literally sounded like he was in a relationship with Karkat.......what the hell, honestly...........I’m glad it was on Dave’s own volition rather than’s Dirk’s gross as fuck pushing at least.

-That brings us to Dirk. The man who has been making my stomach church whenever I remember. My feelings about him are...............fucking complicated. I’ve been reblogging and bitching about him being “ruined” or whatever but.......That really is the simplified version of what I’ve been thinking. I think.....He’s been corrupted by his aspect or he’s just taking this heel “must be the new villain” too seriously. Like, I fucking despise it when people go off and say Bro was corrupted by Cal or Gamzee was corrupted by literally anything cause those two are just fucking trash, I’m sorry. I think I’m mostly upset by Dirk more than anything because his WHOLE thing was that he was a controlling dude with the potential to become an atrocious man and that he was starting to really take control of his path and work his way into becoming a better person. His talk with Jane on his sacrificial slab? His talk with Dave on the roof..........His heart aspect had begun to bring all his splinters together for his ultimate self and when the majority of your splinters carry a very sociopathic personality..............Man, there was literally no hope for him ever, huh? Literally none. The theme of working towards a better version of yourself is MEANINGLESS if your name is Dirk Strider. A character who struggles with depression, suicide, and absolute self loathing and his only path is this. Become the monster he was always terrified to become. Like I’m straight up about to cry writing this holy shit. Dirk is one of my favorite characters of all time- my FIRST favorite character when reading the comic- one of my MAIN reasons for reading it because I heard there was a canon gay character and I needed that in that time of my life. What almost hurts just as much as Dirk being a good guy and forcefully having this fate thrust upon him is that Roxy, the person Dirk cared about the most,.........Like............misgendering them. and being incredibly flippant and rude about trans stuff.......I can’t even begin to describe how much it hurt to read the character you looked up so much fucking being terrible about something that means so much to you. I’m agender and it just hurt is all I’m saying. This leads back to the bizarre issue of Dirk also being sexist and using gay in a strangely duragatory way. Like, Dirk grew up not really putting values on labels so for him to be weirdly transphobic does lead back to the ideas of this being a corrupted Dirk or him just playing the role of a villain. I do believe there is still the old Dirk we know in there, however, as even now Dirk states he could NOT hurt Dave. So some hope?

-Jake. I’m pretty sure Hussie fucking hates the dude like holy shit lmao......lmao in the least funniest way..............In both route Jake is jerked around like a plaything, having his personality dampened by the oppressive narrative. The one time we see Jake have repreive from such a shitty fate is when he’s talking to davekat about the election. That was the single moment we saw the curtain fall and the “intelligence” reenter the dude. I know this is like the “fanon” version of Jake. Every single character has fallen to that: whumpified Dave, puppet master dirk, bitchy mean jane, ect but litereally reading about him coming back to himself fucking HURT. Him being made to be obsessed with Dirk was so fucking gross I was cringing the entire time. The last few months I’ve been slowly accepting DirkJake back into my heart and this just fucking SHATTERED that warmth holy shit. Jake’s struggles with non-consensual bullshit is really starting to wear me down I just want him to be happy and RESPECTED. 

-Alrighty heavy stuff out of the way I will say this: I read candy first and at the end where Alt!Calliope is speaking to Aradia I had almost no goddamn idea what the fuck she was talking about. I even started to get kinda angry cause Homestuck tends to not take itself TOO seriously? There are some philosopical mind melting shit to read and consider but never too much where it’s incomprehensible to me? So when I finished candy I was like alright. Hussie just wanted to jerk himself off. whatever. Then I read meat and was like. OH. This.......this is actually fantastically interesting I can do this meta bullshit! and despite everything I just said about Dirk..........I fucking MISSED reading in his voice and it caught me off guard SO much which is what I love about Homestuck. There were a lot of tip offs but the one that really stood out to me before finding out was the Jake and Jane makeout. It kept going back to Dirk and I was very surprised by that? Jake sounded like he was over Dirk and yet here he was......unable to stop thinking about it? Shit makes. SO much sense I definitely am gonna reread it to look for other stuff, too. The tug of war via the narrative was incrediably entertaining as well.....Dirk is like a super sensitve incel now (caliborn would be proud) so it was hilarious to see him lose grip of it to Calliope. UGH I’m a little guilty to say it but I’m such a slut for anything Dirk I’m also KINDA looking forward to see where this goes and enjoying him being a villain A LITTLE. I know I sound wish washy but hey sometimes feelings contradict!

[bladekindeyewear]

Boots reads Homestuck Epilogue(s) Part 8 - Meat Page 41

==>

Okay, Dirk’s gonna monologue about, like... acknowledging his villainy without realizing it I guess?

And if I didn’t bother pursuing those goals, and thereby tacitly accepting the untold suffering that resulted from my inaction, wouldn’t that make me a bad person? If I try and succeed, I’m a hero, right? And if I try and fail, at least I made things interesting on my way to the grave. There would be a tragic nobility in that. And the way I see it, settling for anything less from my arc would be, frankly, pathetic.

So yeah, of course I know I “have to be stopped.” It’s part of the contract. What you sign up for when you assume the burdens of this sort of power. Where there is that which must be subdued and suborned for the greater good, there is that which will instinctively resist. That which intuits that whatever’s going on here is “wrong.” Otherwise, intervention wouldn’t even be necessary, would it?

Yeah, the Heroic and Just death parameters I outlined in the Ultimate Riddle post pretty clearly line up here that he’s fucking shit over in a way he refuses to truly believe is going to end up in his Just demise even if he knows it on some level.  Fucking over everyone’s wills like that?  Fuck you.

Only worthless people permit themselves the great luxury of a valorous sacrifice. 

JUST.  FUCKING.  DEATH.

Mhmm, he knows he’s going to get fucking owned.  Just a little sooner than he thought, I’d reckon.

...geez, I’m going to forget to fucking EAT again today if this epilogue goes on much longer.  Maybe I’ll have to blog the Candy part, like, tomorrow or something.  If I can convince myself to SLEEP instead of reading more, that is.

==>

Thank God all the manipulation is reversing itself.  Keep playing into it and letting it happen you pompous ass, Dirk, it was inevitable.

Couldn’t pay me to be in that room right now. Not for all the agency in the world.

Yeah, agency is the word.  Dirk is aiming for infinite agency at the expense of everyone else’s.  His God-Tier powers crush others’ individuality and let him puppeteer them instead, and it’s what he’s been using all along to manipulate the situation in this story.

they will know what to do, when they are ready.

On the one hand, thanks alt!Callie.  On the other, seriously fuck you alt!Callie for taking Jade out of the story AAAAGAAAAAIN.  D:<

neither she nor her friends will have to worry about him anymore, so long as they remain on this planet and under my protection.

Um, that was phrased ominously potentially.

huddled on the floor, she repeats this pledge to herself. theoretically, he could be stopped before he leaves, if they hurried. they would need to know what to do, where to go, and to have the motivation to do it, but time is short. i could push them to, with a certain degree of intervention, but i will not. my unwillingness to do so is what separates me from him. and what corporeal life needs now is someone presiding over them who is nothing like him at all.

FUCK YES, PRESERVE THE WILL OF THE CHARACTERS INSTEAD OF TURNING IT ALL INTO YOUR OWN FANFIC YOU BEAUTIFUL CHERUB

Also, thought that occurred to me at the end of this page... did Dirk potentially arrange John’s death here to keep his retcon powers from being able to stop him?

==>

Epilogue Eight

Okay I’m churning through this all pretty quickly now that there isn’t a bunch of hyperdense prose in the way.  Excellent conversation between characters, furthering the plot along while engaging in very understandable hilarity.

KARKAT: TELL HER TO REGISTER MY HEAVING BULGE AS A PRIORITY!!!!!

Wonk

I don’t THINK I’m reading this any faster than usual, but it FEELS like I am? Maybe because of the format, or maybe I really AM reading it faster to get to Dirk’s fucking comeuppance as fast as goddamn possible.

Pfff, cosplaying as Dave.

KARKAT: WOW! THE WOKEMASTER IS ON FUCKING FIRE FOLKS! HE’LL BE HERE ALL NIGHT!!!

I love this whole conversation

ROXY: awwwwwww ROXY: u boys cute :)

<3

Alright, Jane doesn’t kno-- wait, you’re not looping her in on this?  I thought she’d join in and get, like, a redemptive character arc.  Oh well, lesstimespentonthatthebetterhurryupandkickDirk’sass

Wait, so Roxy didn’t know John wasn’t coming back?  Calliope did though???

Is the only reason Dirk took Terezi along to keep her from giving them info, or... no, he said MORE of them would eventually come, what the fuck is he even planning?

they will believe they are on a quest to retrieve a wife and rescue a friend. but they will discover their true mission is of much greater cosmic significance than they imagined. the seer is firmly in the thrall of the prince and will not easily be pried away. and as regards the heir, though resuscitation remains a theoretical possibility for those still striving for it, the truth of his role is it has reached a greater sense of narrative finality than any of his allies will bring themselves to admit. his influence over canon has come to an end, as has this particular story. his ultimate sacrifice was made to put the missing keystone in place and avert the supreme dissipation of all that shall be considered to hold truth, relevance, and essentiality.

...Huh.

Okay, so they MIGHT have to accidentally create Paradox Space, and regardless by stopping Dirk they’ll be guaranteeing agency as a right to those who live both within and without the confines of... whatever existence even is anymore.

......This ship chase through Paradox Space of cosmic significance sounds disturbingly familiar to old pictures I used to verbally paint about the endgame, and I refuse to think about that idea further.

And we’re returning to black text, from the sound of what alt!Callie is saying.  Let’s do that.

==>

POSTSCRIPT?!?????

POSTSCRIPT?  P O S T S C R I P T?!??!?!??!?!??

IS THIS FUCKING OVER OR SOMETHING? IS THIS NOT GETTING RESOLVED WHAT THE FLYING FUCK AAA OKAY CALM DOWN CALM DOWN BOOTS AND READ

fuck my stomach’s clenching up again oh god

artillery what the fuck

aradia okay

WWWWHAT THE FUCK SIXTEEN YEAR OLD JADE WHAT

JADE FROM THE BLACK HOLE GOT SPIT OUT HERE OR

OKAY WHAT THE FUCK IS EVEN GOING ON HERE BLACK EYES AND SHE’S A MURDER MACHINE OKAY WHAT

WHAT IS ALL THIS BULLSHIT WHY IS AN ANGSTY DARKJADE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE ALTCALLIE CONTROLLED DOING FLASHY BULLSHIT

“no being has ever commanded before” WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEA-- OH SHIT IS IT LIKE BLACK HOLE ABILITIES

LIKE, FUCKING, BLACK HOLE INSTEAD OF THE GREEN SUN ABILITIES NOW TIED TO HER AND SHES BEEN CONTROLLED BY ALT!CALLIE LONG ENOUGH TO GET HERE OR WHAT THE FUUUUUUCK WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO JADE YOU FUCKING STORY GET OUT OF HERE

davebot.  why a davebot?  davebot.

I’m feeling fucking sick.  Okay what’s about to happen.

Okay so this Dave is like from some other timeline split and got botsaved or something sure whatever

okay some of the others are going off into this... “OTHER UNIVERSE???” too???? or other paradox space or some fucking bullshit???

also scrolling up i missed “Jade was sixteen years old when she showed up, and she doesn’t look a day older now, though many hundreds of days have passed” o kay are these ghosts???

Oh FUCK I CAN BREATHE

i can breathe again

fuck, these are like

im guessing these are... other ghosts or former-ghosts or basically everyone that huddled into the black hole, and aradias there because of course or something, this isnt dirk having won and reached his place or whatever

this is the jade alt who fell into the black hole and must have died hence her perpetually-young look, and now that shes in the black hole she has access to black hole powers

REAL JADE is FUCKING FINE

breathe boots breathe god damnit

okay reading, uh

a-all the action that matters f fuck i dsee the end of the page what thej fuck s how oculd it enduhyere kanaya has an enddless chase for her ff-fucking wife or while she’s being mind-raped by dirk orasdf jklfdk adn dshes gonan be in a stupdi metal body or

im really

really gonna need that candy after this

reading that last few paragraphs SHIT

yeah aradias going to go where all the exciting shit is happening in this new... black... hole... adox space or whatever, or wherever this is or

Where the hole gaped just moments ago, there now exists an imaginary line.

Above this line resides all that matters. Below exists all else. Never again the twain shall meet.

And... that’s the final line between Canon and Non-Canon.  Or whatever terms.

Andrew’s done.  The story’s done.  Everything else about their journey is for the imagination alone.  Did they save Rose from Dirk taking her through a portal or whatever to whichever Dirkverse he was conjuring up or whatever theory bullshit i REALLY DONT WANT TO THINK OF OR THEORIZE ABOUT EVEN EVER about what the fuck dirk was trying to pull with all this SHHHHITT!!!!!!!??//?

I... christ.  I need that Candy section.  And I need a drink.  Fuck this I was gonna break for dinner but I’m continuing once I get a beer.  I’m sweating and unhappy.  Like I should be after eating this many pages of raw meat, shouldn’t I?

Next post will be Candy 1 once I confirm that there’s nothing else I’m missing, no other part of this portion to save me from wanting to vomit in an entirely anxious and non-beer-related way.

Fuck.

[kittytalkshomestuck]

Epilogue Dirk and Being Alone

In Chapter 27 of the Meat Route of the Homestuck Epilogues, Alt. Calliope mentions that Dirk is “phenomonologically alone.” But what does that mean, exactly?

Dirk and Alt. Calliope (and possibly regular Calliope) are the only characters in the Epilogue to fully realize they are characters in a story, as well as control the story, with all of the implications that come with that. (Candy John comes close to completing the same realization, but is pulled back by Jake and Roxy near the end of the route.)

Dirk, due to his heart splinter connection to Doc Scratch, is apparently aware of the entirety of the story of Homestuck. He is able to narrate the story as it is occurring in the Meat route due to this omnipotence. Dirk appears to revel in his newfound control over the characters, and takes a certain amount of pleasure in treating them like puppets to play with. However, I do think his situation is somewhat more complicated than that.

I believe that Dirk made a connection to his Heart splinter in Doc Scratch between the comic and the Epilogue, and I don’t think it happened all at once. I cannot imagine he handled the process very well as it was going on, and he probably struggled with the realization that he was a character in a story the same way John did in Candy. The omnipotence from Doc Scratch probably did not help matters. There is a distinct possibility he resisted using his reality bending powers at all when they first manifested.

However, I am under the impression he cannot exactly turn his powers off. Therefore, he would be forced to know every single detail about his friends and family as they go about their everyday life, for the rest of his life. Once his powers fully manifested, could Dirk actually have meaningfully, fulfilling relationships with his loved ones? If he knows everything about them and can just control them whenever he wants, does any interaction he has with them actually matter? I think this question probably haunted him before he completely went off the deep end and decided to just be the villain of the story. Dirk is not literally alone in the Epilogue, but he is existentially alone. And I think he is not happy about that.

I have stated before that Dirk is trying to help his friends reach the same state as him. He forces both Rose and Dave to ascend to their Ultimate Selves against their will, even though he knows from experience it will only bring them suffering. He takes Terezi with him into space because he thinks she has a similar potential see the world as a story the same way he does.

Dirk even leaves Alt. Calliope in a state where she can be revived and come after him, bringing the rest of his friends along for the ride. He didn’t have to do that. Dirk had so many opportunities to manipulate the situation so he would be alone as the supreme ruler of the Meat Route. But he deliberately set up the situation so that wouldn’t happen.

Alt Calliope states that due to their unique circumstances, she and Dirk have both known loneliness intimately. She could be talking about their childhood, growing up almost entirely alone with very little outside interaction. But she could also be talking about knowing their world is a story. However, unlike herself, Dirk is apparently terrified by being alone. I believe Dirk is trying to bring most of the other characters to his level because he does not want to be the only one who can see the world as a story. He does not want to be the only one who can control it. He does not want to be alone.

Either he will bring his loved ones to his level, and he won’t be alone anymore, or they will kill him for what he has done to them. I think he would be fine with either option.

[zenosanalytic]

4/20/19 HSE 8

Ok back at it

MEAT 15

Cool Fight; Not terribly surprising.

MEAT 16

Dirk’s as much Rose’s father as Rose is his Mother. I guess maybe it’s more convenient, psychologically, to choose a causative direction and stick with it, rather than accept the Mobial nature of their genesis, but for some reason it bugs me this keeps getting overlooked.

Dirk’s over here talking about how right he is all the time and I dont think he was ever right about anything even once in canon(aside from certain aspects of his talk with Dave, and choosing not to kill Hal) XD The only “plan” of his to work was the one re: entering the Session, and 1)he outsourced it to Hal and 2)it only worked because he managed to improvise his way through every aspect of it failing to go the way he thought it would, and even that probably had more to do with their entry being part of HiC’s plan to use them, so she wasn’t trying to wipe them.

Another Thing: I dont think the Ascent Differential is Aspect so much as Personality.

Another Another Thing: That Rose, when discussing her life-long fear of knowledge as a corrupting and ruining outside force(this being a person who always felt her mother wasn’t her mother, in some sense, and responded to that fear by rejecting emotional intimacy with said mother), doesnt see the connection between that life-long fear and her fear that Ascending will be bad, damaging, and corrupting, is Notable. Perspective continues to be important, and lack of self-awareness continues to hamstring ppl in this narrative.

MEAT 17

I feel like this new narrative belligerence on Dirk’s part isn’t going to work out too well for him with a person as aware and recalcitrant to narrative meddling as John. It’s going to be John and WV all over again. This is also a wonderful example of how personal flaw and specificity isn’t solved by Godhood in HS, and can really trip you up; basically all of this, including the “impotence” applies to Dirk, too, when others disagree with the direction he’s trying to push them in, and this whole rant may be meant, ironically, as an example of dramatic irony: basically, that Dirk’s rant about total control and knowledge reveals the limits of his knowledge and will be followed by examples of how limited his control is, which he can’t be aware of, but which the “impotent” audience will.

MEAT 18

...And, almost immediately, John’s objecting to the narration and doing things before Dirk “writes” him doing them(the sigh).

MEAT 19

“So yeah, I’m gonna allow it” Notice how he asserts power over situations he does not, in fact, have power over.

Which is kind of an interesting dynamic to bring up in the context of authorship? I mean: in the realm of nonfictional works an author can’t “make” things happen, only alter for their audience what DID happen. In some respect this is being written as equivalent to that dynamic; the simple admission in M17 that Dirk is misrepresenting events also admits those events happened another way than he’d prefer, meaning it’s also an admission of his lack of power over actual events. And, of course, all the other things I’ve been talking about, and the fact that everyone’s “character” is rooted in natures established in the original work. But in a fictional work an author’s creative power is absolute, and this is a fictional work; though I suppose a derivative or transformational one, which accounts for the shortfall. Another interesting aspect of this is that the “Author” is presented as a Narrator; Narrators merely describe what happened, they don’t create it. I was going somewhere more concrete with this but it popped out of my head >:T >:T

Ok so other aspects of this: I agree that Jane’s been established as a pretty ambitious person, but she was also always a pretty moral person and the way she’s going about this so far doesn’t seem to be in keeping with that part of herself. And also: she literally wants to create shortages, and thus the suffering shortages will cause, for... what? Nostalgia? Because she think she can run Capitalism better than the adults from before all this?? Because Hierarchy is Neat??? Seems like a whole handful of really petty, selfish, and juvenile reasons to me. Also one guaranteed to cause social conflict; I doubt a civ that’s never known material want is going to react too well to sudden starvation and financially-manufactured forced-labor(which, lbr, is what most work in our world is).

Obvsl, as a snake and member of the storied gens Atheris, I agree with Roxy&Calli that patriarchal human concepts of gender are not the end-all-be-all of identity, but what really jumps out to me here is Roxy’s description of the nature of their love for, and previous sexual interest in, Dirk which I find really True. Like: the sentiment of wanting to see children of a person because you really like that person and think they should continue, or of thinking having the kids you might have with another person would be pretty interesting. Also that loneliness is a hell of a drug 8T

I’m trying to figure out why this conversation would be circumstantially simultaneous with The Furthest Ring being “destroyed”, but I got Nothing :T :T :T

MEAT 20

So yeah, Jade’s merging with her Alt!Selves, not too surprising since it was heavily foreshadowed in Endgame.

Given that Sessions are located IN the Furthest Ring, and Sessions MAKE new multiverses, I find it being made out of “negative potential. The absence of a future” pretty ironic :p I wonder if the tentacle hair bit is a nod towards the Horror-Terrors, and theories about them being Players? Rose and Dirk’s view of Ascension would seem to suggest HTs might be SUCCESSFUL players who eventually abandoned their universes out of fear of the damage they’d do misusing their godhood(as it doesnt solve your personal problems), rather than the old HC of them being failed Players.

MEAT 21

My theory about “The Economy” being code for sex doesn’t stop feeling ever more confirmed by this narrative :|

Dirk’s anger at the idea of anyone not thinking he’s right about everything is Palpable on this page. Also I’d just like to note that This:

Is being said by a person currently in the middle of metaphysically manipulating a friends towards her worst impulses(and also potentially some amounts of self-hatred, give her thoughts re: femininity) for the sake of establishing a dictatorship through which she, as his agency-dimmed puppet, will enforce his personal politico-philosophical preferences regardless of what anyone else thinks and he’s saying it about people who just said This:

which is to say: a bunch of political pluralists who are NOT seeking to impose their morality on anyone but rather to establish a system where EVERYONE can SHARE their moral understanding of policy issues and come to a consensus decision on them, within the context of a political society DEFINED by the equality of all as political actors. There’s just so much that’s wrong, weak, and easily dismissable about Dirk’s argument here. Not to mention his obvs, undisguised, physical disgust for trolls >:T

And he’s doing all this Purely because, given his fixation on “Winning”, he wants to Win. Like: he’s not actually even pursuing what he considered good policy; he is, literally, doing this all for Pure Ego, which he has the gall(and lack of self-awareness) to accuse others of acting from. And this self-deluding buffoon is a person who believes himself “Ascended” and therefore possessed of a “higher” and “clearer” perspective on matters above their “petty” concerns about, oh non-humans being allowed to live as they like, or practice any political agency at all, and all ppls being spared unnecessary and pointless suffering due to entirely manufactured shortages. So much (real, actual)Irony, of so many types, in all of this, all at once.

An aside: I am really liking the political-mindedness of these Epilogues so far; really playing to my Interests uwu

The bit about Hybrid babs and shipnames is funny, and it doesn’t read like a shot at the fandom to me at all; it’s more a joke at Dave’s expense given the obvs distress Kanaya’s in and his inability to stop making the situation more awkward(itself prob the result of Bro’s neglect/abuse)

Oh hey look: it’s Dirk the “Omniscient” being distracted, caught unawares and off-guard by the actions of others, unable to handle the role&work he’s chosen for himself(ie “out of his depth”), unable to split his attention between even just two conscious ppl at once, and not knowing what others are thinking. Given this and his handling of Jade’s thoughts in the last section, I kinda feel like it’s less he can actually sense the thoughts of others, and more that he gets some kind of inkling or hunch, or maybe that’s it’s purely just him guessing(that’d fit real well with his comments on Roxy being “inscrutable” to him), or even just having an awareness of the plot he is narrating(and thinks he’s writing). Of course it could also be some kind of Heart thing; not really even access to their thoughts at all, but a sort of awareness of their Agency? Like: Heart is The Self and The Self is expressed through Agency, so he has, in some way, developed an awareness of “Self-Action”, which is to say, Agency? Kinda like how Dave “feels” Time and Jade “feels” Space and Rose “feels” Relevance. Which, just as an asnide, would be something super-basic powers-dev wise, since Dave started having a sense of Time way back in the early Acts, long before godhood. Though I can see how Dirk developing an awareness of OTHERS intentions(and feelings, potentially, given Heart’s other associations) would seem like a big step for him, given how self-absorbed he is.

Ok that’s it for this one I think. I know I’m not being terribly kind to Dirk in all this but, tbf, he’s being kind of a huge snide Dick in basically every respect, and I also don’t have a lot of Chill in me when it comes to 1)arrogant people or 2)manipulators (:T

[eldritch-sanctum]

Unpopular opinion about the Homestuck Epilogues:

I honestly do like how Dirk unfolded as a villain, I like the twist that he is the “Final Boss of Homestuck”, I mean someone you always thought was on YOUR side, someone beloved by fans and the protagonists alike? I guess because that is how a lot of psychopaths do wind up being-beloved by all until their dark secret is revealed, and I know I am kinda...privileged saying this because I never developed a proper bond with any of the kids, except Rose (and how the fuck was she convinced to go with Dirk? Maybe because of her condition, but why continue the cycle of Sburb?).  But I did feel bonded to John and Terezi moreso in the epilogues.

Also the realization that he is an amalgam or has always been there in some way or form, in all the other major antagonists (except the Dersite ones).  He has merged with all his other selves in power and mind, which also includes Lord English, Lil’Cal, and Doc Scratch.  Some speculate he’s become a very vile asshole due to also being connected to and influenced by them, but it’s hard to really tell at this point and might be wishful thinking, but it does kinda explain his feelings for Jake being that of utter disdain and contempt to the point of ruining him (But Caliborn did feel respect for Jake, enough to take his name?), and his obsession with masculinity (notice how when Roxy identifies as a man, he is suddenly fine with it), but one can argue that he’s always been manipulative with Jake, in fact I recall that being a huge thing about DirkxJake being a toxic relationship.  Basically saying that maybe Dirk really always has been an asshole.

I think a lot of people in fandoms still want to think of their villains as murderbabies or something, and there are villains who probably do deserve better, but it’s sometimes refreshing to be faced with a villain whose cunning comes seemingly out of left field. 

Dirk has always been sorta in touch with his other selves throughout the comic in some ways, but his character arc really drew on the horrible implications of him being linked with his other selves, even the ones he made and what it meant since it was seeded into the other mass manipulators, by himself actually, and into his puppet.

Which then brings us to the end of Meat, wherein alt Calliope uses Jade’s body to devour Lord English’s corpse in a way that got Aradia cheering.  This Calliope knew that Lord English was...more than just Caliborn but also a sweaty Void troll and an artificial version of Dirk, which is still linked with the other Dirks.  (Something worth mentioning is that Nepeta is the other Heart player).  Cherub romance and sexual style is said to be typically blackrom and said to be an attraction to a mate that reminds them of the sibling they overpowered and killed, which implies that maybe alt Calliope and Dirk could have been...a bit flirty with one another?  Does this mean eating that corpse was also a tad vore?  Dunno just food for thought. 

And then there is that last ominous line by him:

“I am already gone.”

Which echoes “He is already here”. 

Continuing the cycle of Sburb seems to imply that maybe Lord English was responsible for that, and that maybe all First Guardians really did have some link since their purpose was to perpetuate the cycle using the Green Sun.  And now Dirk just fucks off Earth C to do that.  It’s also stated that Earth C does eventually become barren and home of the Cherub players, which makes it kinda...depressing since it means they didn’t fully break the cycle, and what of the god tiers after that?

Although I did enjoy the meta stuff because last year I did go through a crisis a bit about the direction of certain fictional things but then I looked at some superhero stuff and how there are so many canons and verses and shit like that, which made me think about the fleetingness of canon.  So I do get that criticism of “what is canon anyway? lol” and the escape from canon being the only solution since canon is the “ouroboros”, the cycle in Homestuck which also prunes the broken time loops that ensure everything goes as planned.

Also I read Candy first, so that might have flavored (hehe) my perception differently than others.

[momestuck]

Epilogues: Meat ch 38-42 [Epilogue 7]

We’re very near the end now. But it can’t be that easy for D---, can it?

chapter 38

Dirk has decided he’s going to take it upon himself to get Dave and Karkat to fuck at last. He’s not going to outright rape them by taking direct control of them through the narration - for the “integrity of their emotional arcs” rather than like, any actual concern for their will as people, of course. Instead he’s going to try to use his narrative power to “persuade” them.

So he pushes Karkat to make a really heartfelt speech about how much Dave means, how when Dave says kind things to him it doesn’t automatically feel fake. And Karkat... doesn’t quite play along. He says he’s glad Dave’s his friend. (Also Dave makes an anime reference).

At this point Dirk goes berserk. He desperately tries to force Dave to take the initiative and top Karkat. As the scene progresses, he gets more and more heavy handed with it.

“I just want you to be happy...” [in exactly the way I prescribe]

Dave fights back against Dirk’s influence, without recognising its origin. (It’s interesting which characters can perceive it, and which can’t). Anyway, Dirk backs off - it doesn’t “count” for him if it’s not of Dave’s own will that he kisses Karkat.

They do in fact kiss. But not before Dave shouts at Dirk’s narration:

DAVE: GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HEAD AND JUST LET ME DO THIS MYSELF!!!

This completely busts up Dirk’s attempt to narrate, and then Dirk decides... to just let the moment pass, without a thorough ‘poetic’ (you wish dude) description.

I’m not going to intercede with a single word further, and I won’t let you, either. I won’t cheapen this beautiful moment with my base editorialization just to satisfy your voyeuristic curiousity. Frankly, I’m offended you’d even expect me to. What they’re getting up to here is nobody’s business but theirs.

Davekat is canon, and that’s really all there is to say on the matter. Let’s give these crazy lovebirds some privacy and move on.

This is a really interesting moment. On one level, insisting on the privacy of fictional characters who exist only insofar as we imagine them is kind of absurd. On the other, letting them have actual privacy and independence is a huge step for Dirk, as a characterisation moment.

Also lol @ ‘davekat is canon' there god. about fucking time

chapter 39

Dirk is narrating himself, for once. He’s getting a spaceship from Jake’s mansion. Parenthetically, we learn that Skaianet - Jake’s company - has been manufacturing military spaceships for the Crocker administration. Guess we’re well on our way to a similar fascist hellhole in the Meat storyline as well, if there was ever doubt.

To think: if Jane had just died in the final battle... (because of course, fascism is driven by the ill will of one single superpowered evil person...)

Going by the narration, Dirk still feels some level of horniness for Jake here, even though Jake is now more or less his lovestruck puppet.

He not-so-gently informs Jake that this is a Dirk-and-Rose only mission, and they’ll never see each other again. Jake says some shit. (Also apparently Dirk intends to leave Jane in charge of the planet for ‘millions of years’.)

Dirk gives Jake a kiss, which he describes in the most nauseatingly self-aggrandising way possible. And then he says goodbye - implying this is, in a sense, some manner of revenge.

DIRK: I’m sorry, Jake.

DIRK: But I’ll never let you break my heart again.

God damn he’s an overdramatic bitch isn’t he.

Chapter 40

Either there’s no epilogue 8, or this is longer than I thought.

Jade gets woken up by Kanaya... and this time it really is Jade, at least going by the text colour. She’s fully aware of everything that alt-Calliope did through her... and immediately declares DIrk must be stopped.

Judging by the lack of editorialising in the narration, this reaction may be All According to Keikaku?

Chapter 41

We get a little insight into Dirk’s motivations. It’s some kind of Singer-style effective-altruism-by-way-of-god-complex:

If my agenda was to try as hard as I could to make sure no one thought I sucked, what the fuck would ever get done? How would I go about taming this world, or shaping reality for the better? And if I didn’t bother pursuing those goals, and thereby tacitly accepting the untold suffering that resulted from my inaction, wouldn’t that make me a bad person? If I try and succeed, I’m a hero, right? And if I try and fail, at least I made things interesting on my way to the grave. There would be a tragic nobility in that. And the way I see it, settling for anything less from my arc would be, frankly, pathetic. 

In this longwinded soliloquy, Dirk acknowledges that, whatever his self-perception, he recognises his role in the story is to be the villain. Supposedly for the greater good. He understands that people will resist, because “the sins of God and man” are not so “pliable” as that. He says that it’s inevitable that “power such as [his]” over other peoples’ would become “the enemy of anyone who noticed”, but suicide simply isn’t a thinkable option for someone as consequential as him.

So he’s setting up for his own dramatic comeuppance, as part of the whole grand design.

What a dick!

Chapter 42

Jade catches Kanaya and Roxy up on what’s really been happening, the control Dirk’s been exerting. Dirk - now confident of his escape - takes this opportunity to free Kanaya from the thoughts he placed in her, that made her so blasé about Rose leaving with Dirk.

Kanaya is incandescent, understandably. But then alt-Calliope ‘wakes up’ in Jade again, suppressing Dirk’s role in the narration, and Dirk meanwhile is on his ship and on his way out already. (Though given Jade has such overwhelming Space powers, you think she’d be able to catch up and stop him pretty trivially!)

alt-Calliope declares she won’t turn them into puppets to send them after Dirk, like he did - that this is the line between them. Dirk laughs, it’s futile, he’s already gone! etc.

(I guess Dirk is going to the Candy universe, unless I totally misunderstood that lol)

Epilogue 7

Well we finally got that Davekat kiss. And a lot of thought about agency of fictional characters.

Dirk, it seems, wishes to remake the universe in the ‘right’ way, without suffering? Perhaps that’s the purpose of his planned SBurb session: to repopulate the universe now depopulated by the black hole with a new set of universes.

Dirk seems to have gotten his ‘win state’ all sorted out - but alt-Calliope still has something in mind, even if they’re obstinately refusing to tell anyone until the time is right.

[bladekindeyewear]

Boots reads Homestuck Epilogue(s) Part 6 - Meat Page 16

==>  (Whoa, went a long while before splitting posts, there.  Dangerous, with how often I’ve lost stuff to Tumblr page reloads in the past.)

Oh, you’ve realized Zazzerpan’s relevance as foreshadowing for the trolls or whatever, Rose?

Oh my god, PLEASE don’t put Rose inside a fucking robot.  >:|

Oh SHIT wait.  That one wizard Roxy named her cat after who wanted all the knowledge in the world, got overloaded and then crushed by the giant textbook or whatever???  That’s disturbingly Rose-similar here.  D:

Rose, puns.  Please.

Hm, you think it applies to you all now instead of the trolls?  Huh.  Do you think some of you might become villains and get Just deaths?

..Huh, wait.  Numerological significance?  Are we actually learning what 413 means?  Or learning that it was meant to be bullshit all along instead?  I’m “Hmmm”ing loudly either way...

Ow, ouch.  So a Light player wasn’t designed to properly live outside of canon significance, or??

Ooh.  She’s not sure that if she opens herself up to all the knowledge of her other selves, that it’d be “her” anymore.  A pretty legitimate fear... and one Dirk is perfectly disposed to disabuse her of.  As a Heart player, he’d understand better than most that the entire combination of one’s various states over all timelines IS you, and the unique direction your will and uniqueness embodies across whatever it touches.  Or something.

...Wait, wait a minute.  Before I keep reading........ I didn’t actually CLICK the candy button yet.  What if Candy just redirects to AO3 or something.  Like, the candy bit is all of our fanfics.  Oh jeez.

Okay reading on before that possibility drives me insane.

DIRK: I’m not sure anyone should be allowed to have that much foresight. Especially a guy like me.

...Mhmm, especially since in part that’s how we got Doc Scratch, yeah.

Reading to the end of this page, and........

Yeah, what the FUCK just happened.

So... is this Dirk BEING a villain?  Doing some sort of weird almost cherubic Eye thing to kind of supplant Rose as he becomes a Scratch-like fanfic narrator or... Let me reread these last few paragraphs a couple times...

Is he really sort of “puppeteering” Rose?  Is this like the birth of a god-tier villain or just a temporary respite he’s giving her sort of underhandedly for an actual good cause to help her out of her situation??  Or is “death” or a death of the self the actual solution he had for her mess???  I mean... the metatextual awareness bit that he’s speaking through in the last sentence is clearly something like what comes of ascending completely and going beyond the story to be able to write it like Caliborn or Doc Scratch might or... y’know what, fuck it.  I’ll understand it in later pages.  I have to keep reading if this is going to make sense to me.

This next button better not lead straight back to the fucking selection screen again.

==>

Oh shit, a giant Dirk section.  Only fitting that he might have been writing most of this all along possibly.

Undercurrent of narrative significance.  Oh shit.  Is he going to go off about Light, about the story parts not mattering?  Or that the fact that this IS a story and... from what I accidentally skimmed in sentences below before reading further, how we’re trapping them in a story by reading it or something???  Hence the idea that their existences are being “blighted” by the subtext of narrative significance, and would be better FREE of it?

Huh.  Is this really going to work?  As, like... a body slam of people who were too caught up in the forest of narrative purpose to see into the trees of the point he wanted to make with the finale?  It’s practically Andrew talking to the audience from within the story about their frustrations, heh.

Yeah, this whole rant is pretty awesome so far.  I forgot to mention it a few paragraphs ago, but when you look at the story list, the Epilogues are listed as “stories of dubious authenticity”, so is this whole thing like... how DIRK might have written the ending out?  Just to emphasize further that this whole thing is kind of pointless compared to the infinite possibility that was the reward for their escape from the confines of such story-stuff?

Cool.  Sounds like we’re seeing the “good end” that Dirk would have written for this story if he were to write one that still answers plotlike questions, or something similar to it.  That and/or he’s also engineering things in-canon -- or as “canon” as the victory planet is -- to follow all this for the end result he has in mind, and it comes across as practically Doc Scratch-y in the way it ties in metatextual awareness and stuff.  Either way, it DOES feel like Andrew might successfully be making his point.

==>

Pff.  This is going to be a bit interesting.  And, of course, unstuck-in-canon John can hear the narrator speaking.

And now John has ANOTHER story to get annoyed at the narrator of, heh.

The tooth is poisoned? Really? Did you just make that up or?

Okay, why suddenly the wallet, fanfic writer? Is he going to find touching pictures or just captchalogue the black hole?

This is all starting to feel a whole lot less serious, and I can’t help but figure that’s the intent.

==>

Pff, back to the B plot.  Yay Jade!  --Please don’t be metatextually aware like John and let’s get more actual story.

Phew, seems to be the case

...Is Karkat going to remake this post-scarcity society to be more Communist? Is that where we’re going here?

Alright, Roxy’s gonna be all voidy and Neutral and not want an impact on the election, from the sound of it?

GAAAHHH Jade is in love with all her friends and afraid of being alone.  AAAH FEELS

--Oh huh, so because Jane’s been in the distance putting on the Perfect act she thinks she has to pull, she’s gone down in her friends’ opinions even if that isn’t really her???  That’s pretty reassuring as an alternative, actually.  Leave it to Roxy to see everything crystal goddamn clear as usual.

Ooh, pronoun mishap.

Holy SHIT Roxy’s gonna go along with it.  That’s nonbinary-awesome!  And Dirk’s just fucking flabbergasted, I love it.

Pff, Dirk’s screwing it up outside too

yep, everyone ectobiologically had kids with everyone, really.

Oh, ow.  Something about the whole black hole green sun thing is fucking with her.  That, or, like...  Huh, might the whole metatextual ascension thing mean that she actually BECOMES that other Jade floating about for a hot minute, the one in the A-side plot??

==>

Ow this excellent narrative is pretty painful.  Like, empathetically inducing pain through really good description of pain and angst.  Ow.

Oh shit, alt!Calliope has a plan.  Maybe she’s able to use this black hole to re-begin Paradox Space and close the loop once everything’s absorbed or something, and needs a Jade’s help for it?

==>

Phew, some relative silliness with some of the others.  That vivid description of a Jade’s suffering was starting to give my stomach a cramp.  Actually, ANY vivid description of Jade’s suffering gives my stomach a cramp.  Or any allusion to it, even, heck even without WORDS.  I saw a Jadey song redux show up on my Youtube dashboard a few nights ago and had to turn it off after less than thirty seconds because I was about to throw up listening to the tune and staring at the image from my stomach clenching SO HARD.  I am WAY too attached to Jade in particular to tolerate her suffering without serious emotional feedback on my part.

Okay, breathe.  Breathe deeply, and keep reading...

....PFF, yes, Karkat.  Finally acknowledge it’s disgusting.  Birth is disgusting from any species really.

Yaaaay Kanaya! :)

Pfffff, Dave does record scratches with his hands mid-conversation like a fucking dab.  He would.

KANAYA: I Am Impressed That You Managed To Be Seen In Front Of That Many People Without Spontaneously Bursting Into Flames

I’m laughing

We internalize and project the quality in very different ways, however, which is why I’m going to win.

Win?!????

Win WHAT, the election???  Is that your only grand plan or... I mean fuck, way to be Doc-Scratch-like ominous!  Reading on...

...Yeah, Feferi was definitely a proto-Fascist too.  :)

Oh, huh. “Power Corrupts In Small Steps”... is this whole President thing going to be a big-ass metaphor for gaining your God powers without abusing them?? And pointing out that Jane is hella abusing her status in a way that COULD become villainous if it goes too far?  Victory is supposed to give you the ability to create a universe, but you’re not necessarily supposed to lord over it with an iron fist...

KARKAT: WHEN I HEAR ABOUT HOW HUMAN GRUBS CHEW THEIR WAY OUT OF THE FEMALE MATESPRIT’S ABDOMINAL HOLE BEFORE CONSUMING THE WOMB MEMBRANE IT MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT.

Pffffffff

KANAYA: He Is Beloved In The Troll Kingdom For His Perky Ass DAVE: seriously? KARKAT: I TOLD YOU IT’S NOT JUST ME! KANAYA: It Has Some Terrible Arcane Power KANAYA: I Have Never Seen Anything Like It

I am laughing out loud here

pff dave’s doubtlessly imagined this at least as much as the rest of us

YESSS make fun of ship names some more, especially the ship names I’m not a fan of even though I’m such a fan of the pairing :D

KANAYA: Im Going To Call My Wife And You Are Going To Stop Talking

Why do I love that sentence so much.  Is it just because it has the word wife in it.  Probably.

At the other side of the cavern, Dave and Karkat bicker about what their combo kids would look like, in the event that they decided to stop being such laughable wusses and began fornicating like two cartoon animals of different species who have given into their lust.

Pffff.  Yeah, Dirk would put it that way.

Pffffff.  Not as adept at handling all sides of the story at the same time as you were as part of Doc, eh?

==>

Reading reading reading... Oh, adorable, he tried to slip a fish pun into Meenah’s name but couldn’t think of one.

...Oh SHIT, is he going to give Meenah the ring of life she wanted??? :D

Oh pff, that works too.  :D

==>

Okay, time for maybe at least a SLIGHT explanation of whatever the FUCK Dirk might have or might not have done to Rose or something????

...Huh.  What exactly are you trying to “fix” about Kanaya and Rose’s relationship, Dirk?  Something that didn’t fix itself with just the two of them together?

I mean...... Rose’s substance abuse never fixed itself when it was just two of them together on the first-run meteor.  And she’s been taking pills and trying to stave off her destiny out of fear while her wife hasn’t really been digging into her insecurities... I mean maybe he has a point.

SHADOWS around her??????  D:

==>

Yeah yeah, John drifting.  I just remembered what one of those “server beacons” they were mentioning actually is, too, visually.  Knowing it had an escape route helped.

What are you even gonna do with the slippers, gift them to Terezi when she comes flying in?  (Also, right, just remembered he’s a Breath player so it’s only natural that he actually finds whatever there is to find “coincidentally” around here, like that wallet.)

Ooh, you REALLY were thinking about Terezi over the past years from the sound of it.  And here she is or whatever.  :)

1 C4N ST1LL TOUCH TYP3 1N H3R L33T SP34K W1THOUT 4NY 4SS1ST4NC3 3XC3PT C4PS LOCK ON 4FT3R 4LL TH3S3 Y34RS  >:]

==>

Okay okay okay wait.  Her shadow is talking??? Is this, like... Jungian shadow stuff? Inversion shadow stuff?  What the fuck is going on.  It better not be Inversion-related.

Let me read that again.

Her shadow has faded to light behind her, assuming the shape of a Rose-like apparition. I nod to her, and she continues. When she speaks, it’s almost as if it’s the apparition that’s doing the talking.

That’s weird and I don’t entirely know what it means. I’d better just keep fucking reading.

Fun philosophical banter.  I didn’t know what “Hegelian dialectics” were until I read some big rant on someone’s Fallout New Vegas playthrough earlier last month.

ROSE: I think free will is a thing, sure. DIRK: Are you sure about that? ROSE: ... DIRK: Haven’t we spent the entire day having a feelings jam on how none of us got here by accident?

Ah, here we’re going with some Ultimate Riddle-y stuff.

Or wait, are we adding a bit on to that concept now?  Because it now seems like a large PART of the Ultimate Riddle stuff I covered (FUCK dropbox for breaking all the images) that might be revealed in this part of the damn epilogue is the whole the-only-way-to-have-true-free-will-is-to-escape-the-narrative-imposed-on-us or something along with the rest of it.

Hm, that whole “become One God” bit that Dirk ranted about in the beginning of one of the John sections... is that his ambition here?  I didn’t comment on the rantparagraph earlier because the “one” part of it threw me as possibly just some philosophical stuff he was musing about, but it’s like... I mean Dirk is the narrator right now, and it sounds like he wants to *BE* the narrator.  Like, become the one truly in control of this whole story.  With his orange Andrew-colored text or whatever.  Is that what he meant by “win”, winning control of the entire narrative, turning everyone else in the story into mere extensions of himself that he was “writing” by virtue of being the only author?

And him getting thwarted in that task, showing that it’s better if there really is NO narrator and the characters can do whatever they imagine in infinite branches and our imaginations, is the victory that proves the point of the story.  Or something.  Hmm.

Also, huh.  Like... I mean that IS a natural extension of a Prince of Heart if he were to turn to villainy.  A grand ambition to destroy everyone’s individuality until they’re nothing but Himself.  Right?

DIRK: Your Ultimate Self, that which is revealed when the mind’s partitions are stripped away, and all potentiality of who you are and what you could have been flow together. DIRK: Those are the experiences and processes that are refusing to stay bundled, that’s what your body can’t endure. The unbundling itself is your mind coming apart. DIRK: Because you’re not as strong as me. Not yet. DIRK: But you can be. DIRK: I’m working on that.

Because she’ll “BE” you?  Because you’ll be everyone?  Hm.

DIRK: But for now, I’m focused on stabilizing you with my own expanding consciousness. DIRK: It’s enveloping you now, in a way you can’t see. Keeping your thoughts solid, your identity anchored to your physical form as it strains to hold itself together. DIRK: You can’t see it, what I’m talking about. But I can help you. DIRK: I can help you see what I see, if only for a little while. DIRK: All you have to do is open your eyes. DIRK: Maybe what you see will help you through this.

Okay so maybe this all ain’t TOTALLY fucking sinister.  Just partially.  Hmm.

I’m not going to describe what she sees. First of all, that would be spoiling it. Unless you already know, in which case, I guess what’s taking place here qualifies as something closer to dramatic irony. But if you really want to see it for yourself, stop what you’re doing, flip the whole thing over, and begin again. I’ll be right here when you get back, waiting. Trust me, no one’s going anywhere.

Hahahahah.  So the candy part IS written.  I mean I was pretty sure, but it’s nice to have it acknowledged here.  Pretty awesome.  I won’t stop here to read it, I’ll get to the candy part eventually as a nice dessert.

All she needs is a nudge in the right direction.

We’re family. We belong together. And after years of micromanaging the inconsistent and confused desires of total imbeciles, wouldn’t it be a relief to have someone by my side who understood me?

Stop being so incestuous.  Dirk, you’re just getting off on the CONCEPT of incest being part of the flavor of all this, aren’t you.  That’s why you kept pushing things this way, you want it to be as uncomfortable as possible.

...wait, yeah he’s just talking about being a metatextual ascended, isn’t he.

Her body should be dead now.

I’M SORRY WHAT THE FLYING FUCK.

And Rose has... what, ascended but somehow given in to Dirk’s puppeteering of existence, or?  Ugh.

Next post, I wanna keep reading already to get through all this bullshit.  Then once I’ve figured it all out, I can rest comfortably back with the Candy side which Rose practically just promised me is potentially TOO SUGARY which is really enticing as a prospect.

[thalassicapollyon]

#a person i wasnt supposed to like is glowing on me not litterally but in a friend sense and i hate it#shes not even a rose or alt of puppet whos a dirk#like those are the only two people and alts i actively care about so this is annoying

I would hope not literally, but you never know these days. People are growing all sorts of weird shit. As for your other issue, you'll either get used to it or you'll harden up again. It doesn't seem worth irritating yourself worrying about it.

@thalassicapollyon replied to your post “annoying caw...”:

Unless you're a newborn, you should probably have that checked out.

​i was going to make a joke about acting like a newborn but this made me laugh to much to actually be able to make my joke how dare you