#shaladin discourse

[alohaasaloevera]

WARNING!! MENTIONS OF VLD DISCOURSE PLEASE PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!

yo I need y’all’s opinion on the Sheith vs Klantis (or just Klance) discourse way back then??? I personally think Shiro and Keith’s relationship is platonic but I would actually like to hear other people’s view points of Sheith whether they shipped Klance or Sheith or none.

I’m relatively new to this fandom (I started consuming vld media in late 2022), and god even I know the fandom way back then was crazy.. people definitely took it too far.

Also Sheith isn’t incest??? Maybe it’s weird for some people (including me) but c’mon they aren’t even related 😭😭😭

WTF…. People thought Plance was pedophilia?1!1?!1?11! Pidge was like 15 and Lance 17 at the start of the show and the law in the us says an 18 yr old and a 16 yr old can date, just no hopping on the vegetables….

Yooo klantis were crazyyyyy…. Now I understand why klance gives people PTSD

Anyways… just tell me about how you interpret shiro and Keith’s relationship and why

(Also I haven’t watched VLD past season 3 so I don’t know a lot of the lore..)

[lezbianz]

i think one of the symptoms of being extremely online from the age of 10 is that u will one day no longer be the loneliest little girl in the universe who only has fun doing online fandom discourse. and instead you will have real life friends and a girlfriend and career ambitions. but a part of you yearns for the freedom of being 13 with a popular voltron blog or 11 with a popular frozen fanfiction. it’s so strange.

[sagegreenfrogs]

*ೃ༄sage's masterpost*ੈ✩‧₊˚

⭑°⟢last updated: 11/6/2024⟣°⭑

hey. listen to me. we will survive. we will live on as we have for thousands of years. one president cannot stop us. do not give in to defeatism. take your sadness, disappointment, and rage, and use it to fuel your activism. take time to mourn, and then get up and FUCKING FIGHT.

☾ ⋆*･ﾟ:⋆*･ﾟ* . °•★|•°∵ ∵°•|☆•° . *☾ ⋆*･ﾟ:⋆*･ﾟ* . °•★|•°∵ ∵°•|☆•° . *°•

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-> names: just call me sage!

-> pronouns: he/him, they/them,

-> transmasc, demiboy/mascflux-ish? idk, bisexual, genderqueer, gender nonconforming

⚧☭♞☆☮��⌚︎☠︎☔︎☾☕︎⚓︎♐︎🃖🀼☞⌛︎♲⇢☺︎♣︎☼⚅♕✎✁

if you post 18+ or sex-related stuff as your main form of content/super frequently do not interact with this account!! if you speak to me sexually you will be blocked!!

-> DNI: basic dni (racist, sexist, homo/transphobe, etc.) & ped0/MAP, zo0, TERF/SWERF, radfem, radqueer, zionist, jkr defenders, dream stans, wilbur defenders, zutara shippers, pro-shaladin, pr0shipper (romanicizing p3dophilia and inc3st is awful) etc.

-> current main fandoms: the dragon prince, voltron : legendary defender, avatar : the last airbender

-> other fandoms: jujutsu kaisen, genshin impact, hermitcraft/mcyt, the disastrous life of saiki k, scott pilgrim, evangelion, dead end : paranormal park, kipo and the age of wonderbeasts, nimona, the owl house, amphibia, gravity falls, she-ra and the princesses of power, parkour civilization

-> things i'm currently getting into/future fandoms (no spoilers please!) : haikyuu!, bungo stray dogs, hilda, centaurworld, castlevania, spider-man, cowboy bebop, delicious in dungeon/dungeon meshi, freiren : beyond journey's end, over the garden wall

-> Show Netflix that we want the full TDP saga (s8-s10) by submitting "The Dragon Prince: Season 8," "The Dragon Prince: Season 9," and "The Dragon Prince: Season 10," here, and using #giveusthesaga, #continuethesaga, and #greenlightarc3 on here and Twitter!

-> i <3 ghibli films! current watch count : 10/22

-> i'm most brainrotted about sorvus & klance- but other ships make me crazy too! (esp stsg... robbed.)

-> endos and endo antis can interact, I try to remain neutral as I'm not plural and uneducated!! pls just don't involve me in discourse!

-> fanfic reader & author. my ao3

works:

the dragon prince:

all's well that ends well to end up with you. sorvus fluff (sorta fanon s6?) complete, cowritten with @a-very-sparkly-nerd

i shine only with the light you gave me . apollo & hyacinthus au sorvus fic. a passion project of mine <3. complete.

oh, cupid walks right through. sorvus oneshot, inspired by the famous s6 hug screencap. complete.

(more fandoms to come... i have many ideas teeheehee)

personal tags:

#sage yaps or #sage yapping: just me spouting fandom or other-stuff garbage :3

#sage responds: answering from my inbox (pls send asks i love them)

-> alterhuman! antis/antifurs dni

music taste: (i have a lot and it changes often, so beware)

mitski, the crane wives, madilyn mei, sparkbird, hoizer, laufey, beabadoobee, NOAHFINNCE, radiohead, tv girl, lyn lapid, tame impala, chappell roan, siouxsie and the banshees, bauhaus, the oh hellos, etc. my spotify

-> theriotypes: mainecoon cat, american crow, alaskan malamute wolfdog

-> questioning: walrus, raccoon, shark

-> goth babybat! i'm just starting to get into goth music and don't dress in the style yet :3 (learning goth dancing too)

THIS USER HATES DONALD TRUMP

★ my inbox is open if u ever have a question or just need to talk! ★

[materassassino]

Anti and pro what. The ship discourse terms?? What do you MEAN voltron gave us the silly ship discourse words?

Antishipping and proshipping were literally coined in the Voltron fandom by the people who thought shipping Shiro with the other Paladins was weird. It comes from anti-Shaladin and pro-Shaladin.

Voltron completely changed shipping discourse. It was completely different before Voltron.

[yes-my-paladin]

just saw shaladin discourse on my dash in 2024 UNPROVOKED I-

I thought we were past this yall PLEASE just have a good time I'm begging u 😭😭😭

[brisingr-sword]

i did NOT just see shaladin discourse in the year of our lord 2024 (affirmations) (gaslighting myself)

[valkylander]

In 2016, there was a push by crypto-terfs on Tumblr to spread their rhetoric to kids in fandom. You may remember this was the peak of the “DDLG is the same as pedophilia” thing that was going around. That was them.

At the same time as this, three major fandoms were active. Hannibal was still on-going, The Force Awakens had just come out and people were arguing about Reylo, and Voltron Legendary Defender had just started airing. The two biggest ships for Voltron were Sheith (between two men who cared deeply about each other, risk their lives for each other, and in which one character said “you’re like a brother to me” about the other once) and Klance (between two rivals who have a couple of instances of affection in the show, one constantly flirts with women and shows no interest in men so becomes the pet bisexual of the fandom, and who are also said to see each other as brothers). Between the fandom discourse within these three fandoms, and inundated with terf anti-kink talking points, Klance shippers hit upon a strategy for making their own ship canon: they will frame anyone who ships Sheith as somehow promoting and normalizing incestuous and pedophilic abuse by doing so.

They called themselves “Antishaladins” (”shaladin” being a catch-all term for shipping Shiro with any of the other paladins, except Allura who they were usually okay with shipping him with. The fact that he’s a canonically gay man and she’s a teenager apparently not a problem for them). With this new framing of their ship war enemies as pedophiles and active dangers to children, all sorts of harassment became justified in their mind. Dogpiling, doxxing, death threats, bomb threats, you name it. And it wasn’t limited to the fandom, if any member of the cast or crew of the show expressed anything less than total disdain for Sheith and loyalty to Klance, they were targeted as well.

When this attitude spread to other fandoms, Hannibal and Star Wars especially, they changed the name from “Antishaladin” to “Antishipper”. They weren’t against ships in general, just ships they deemed “problematic” which could mean anything from a toxic dynamic in-universe, to outright pedophilic grooming, to a height difference between two same-age characters. Those who thought fandom harassment was a problem and that no fictional ship, no matter how gross, could warrant this kind of abuse of real people started to call themselves “anti anti” or “proship” in response.

Antishippers quickly decided that anyone who would defend the ships they hate, even if they don’t like the ships themselves, is also a pedophile and an incest supporter, and doubled down on their abuse. Over the past several years, some people, including children, have been harassed to the point of suicide by antishippers over their fan fics. When the discourse migrated to Twitter, a new generation of fans saw the word “proship” and assumed it meant “Problematic Ship” and therefore “anti” must mean “anti proship” which is ass backwards and has resulted in even more misinformation about just what is going on.

So. Proship culture is “Ship and let ship.” It’s “Your Kink is not My Kink and That’s OK.” It’s the belief that fan fics and fan arts should be clearly tagged so that people can use their blacklist tools to avoid content they don’t want to see. It’s the idea that no fictional character is worth more than a real, living person. The idea that squicks are valid but don’t justify harassment. That a kid who watched Naruto and shipped Sakura with Kakashi because she thought Kakashi was hot isn’t the same as a fucking pedophile. That what you like in fiction doesn’t always reflect what you condone IRL. That people need to know that just because you like a ship doesn’t mean that relationship would be okay IRL. That there’s a difference between portrayal and endorsement, between romanticization and normalization, and between fetsihization and glorification. And that fourteen-year-olds shouldn’t be seeking out disturbing fetish porn to try and police adults who keep it away from them to begin with.

Someone explain proship culture to me I'm old and you kids are making up words so fast why couldn't we just keep saying radical even though there was no math involved

[werewolf-cuddles]

Every time I see an anti-shipper unironically say “Shiro literally raised Keith”, I want to slam my head against the wall.

Did we even watch the same show?

[huntypastellance]

Yeah, We’re talking about this now.

If you’ve been in the she1thdom for a while now & have followed popular she1th accounts, you’ll have noticed them occasionally posting something.....weird.

Posts vaguely complaining about a certain unnamed person who seems to despise the she1th fandom, use it for profit & doing all sorts of unsavory things behind the scenes in private DMs & discord servers.....

That person is Lee CA (Glossolalia on ao3), writer of those 2 fics that have invaded every she1th fan’s dash at some point in time (”Alien Sex Fiend” & “Picosecond”).

He’s the Cassandra Clare of the VLD fandom if CC had been caught being a creep & not just being a manipulative egotistical plagiarist obsessed with marketing.

Lee CA is about as much of a she1th fan as the infamous anti klanced is -- they ONLY care about it as a tool to boost their own popularity & will spend endless amounts of time bashing she1thers.

There’s a lot of posts about his whole sexual exploitation of naive minors & the whole thing blew up late February of 2019, but We’re here to talk about Lee’s entire history. (Notes: there will be some sources, but a lot of this is really old stuff or stuff only mentioned in private servers, so they’ve been lost to the sands of time or are just things heard through the grapevine.)

To preface all of this: NOBODY saw any of this coming. At worst, Lee was a narcissistic plagiarist high off the fumes of his own success, but his attitude at no point gave off any signs that he would exploit minors in that way. (Exploiting them for profit, though - that’s basically his whole shtick).

Lee was/is a very popular writer in the she1thdom (with fandom picking up the fanon “Shiro calls Keith ‘cherrybomb’” from his fics) & would charge professional rates for his works on his patreon, raking in around $1300 to $1600 PER MONTH for almost 2 YEARS on she1th fics alone (that isn’t counting his commissions either: he charges $125 for a 5000 word fic, $150 for a fic with porn). If he doesn’t hit his goal of $1600 a month, well, that’s clearly YOUR problem for not sponsoring him enough, not his.

Yeah, sure you could save $25 for the porn-free version, but reading a Lee work without any smut is like trying to eat a bowl of nails without any milk in it.

And then he would bitch & moan in DMs to other she1th creators about how “disgustingly underpaid he was”, “how ungrateful [she1th fans] are” or whine in she1th discords until his sympathizers ponied up enough money to pay him for another commission. Hell, he even admitted to MANY she1thers that he didn’t care about she1th, he didn’t like she1th & he was FURIOUS that how DARE not all his she1th fans were eager to throw their money at his original works (which forced him to go back to writing for she1th, even though he literally quit his dayjob to write fanfics full-time).

“Gruelingly underpaid” is apparently “professional rates for writing” so maybe Lee’s making a statement about the writing industry. Or maybe he’s just a dick.

As an ex-supporter of his patreon, We can tell you just how horrible his tiers are. And how tiring his whole gimmick of “I’m that edgy she1th writer! Sex workers! Drugs! Alcoholism! Cheating! Keith & Shiro hating each other but having sex! Christianity is evil & homophobic! -obligatory mention of Gucci because I’m trying to insert subliminal messages in my works to get my readers to buy me stuff!-” quickly got.

Essentially you’d have to pay $10 per month to see anything that wasn’t basically stuff you’d see on his twitter feed or tumblr. (”Pay me $5 a month & I’ll post my notes & let you know what I’m up to!”).

You also had to pay for updates to his she1th fic “Picosecond” if you wanted him to update at a speed faster than “1 chapter every 2-3 months” -- which is already stupid since it’s his fic, but if you’re unlucky & you “didn’t pay him enough”, he’d mention it on the post update that it’s YOUR fault that this chapter wasn’t longer*!

But it’s totally fine, because he said it in a joking tone & so that makes it okay to throw shade at his commissioner like that~!

*minor issue but he artificially inflates his own word count by waxing on about the scenery or filling the chapter with long monologues, so he was ripping people off even more while shilling how “deep” he was

Lee later threw a fit again about how ungrateful, uncaring & cruel the she1thdom was. Why? Because his newest fic about witch!Keith, paladin!Shiro & the cursed tree with crying baby heads for fruit didn’t get over 100 kudos within the span of three days.

And if you were a new fan to she1th & wanted fic recs? He’ll literally just rec his own fics & only his own fics! (Despite having connections to basically every she1th fic writer in the fandom).

Calling Lee a narcissist is a bit of an understatement.

He was also caught plagiarizing another she1ther’s band fic. And, key point here:

The original fic was posted for free on ao3.

Lee’s version was patreon-only until he posted it to ao3 (after ignoring his patreon subscribers who were like “hey what the fuck, i’ve read this before”).

You had to PAY to read Lee’s version (& this is just a personal opinion, but do you think you’d want to pay for a passionless uncaring version of the same fic? His whole disdain towards VLD & She1th leaks out all over his writing, but he’s so good at marketing his stuff that people don’t really notice it - they just think he’s being “dark & edgy”).

He then claimed to have no prior knowledge of the fic only for people to dig up his ao3 account & find out that not only had he bookmarked the original fic, but he had also kudosed it. (Yes, he’s deleted that bookmark by now. Can’t delete the kudos though!)

Lee tried to spin the whole thing as “fighting for the freedom to write whatever you want” just like how he tried to spin his condescending tweets about the Hanakotoba zine’s selection process as “rewarding those who worked hard at their writing” like it wasn’t just a blatant “im only picking me, my friends & popular folks & calling them the best the fandom has to offer” cash grab.

He eventually took down the fic but not before loudly insisting that he was in the right. The other author just wanted the drama to be over with so the entire incident was settled & forgotten without much fanfare.

And then someone spoke up & mentioned that Lee had begged for nudes from underaged fans. And a whole storm of threads poured forth, many of Lee’s whiteknights vanished into the wind & the she1th blogs who had been vaguing about him for years finally gave up on him (you can only avoid someone so much if they’re that popular & basically in every single she1th event promo & whatnot).

Essentially, it was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Or is it?

In the grand scheme of things, this hasn’t really changed much for Lee. People did write to his publisher, Oni Press, (as Lee was working on Dream Daddy with them) & while there was a response, there hasn’t been much information as to how it concluded.

His patreon follower count did drop quite a bit, but Lee still has many fans who will willingly throw tons of money at him. (Besides, he was already losing followers after VLD ended - tons of people lost interest in both the canon & in fan content).

So yeah, things haven’t really changed that much for Lee other than some people now refusing to support him financially or make art based on his works.

Twitter threads & posts about the whole incident:

http://archive.fo/HxI0H

http://archive.fo/N1thM

http://archive.fo/caVOs

http://archive.fo/YjBA5

http://archive.fo/2GgnG

http://archive.fo/454Ww

http://archive.fo/50f9A

http://archive.fo/EhBIQ

Fail-fandom threads about Lee CA’s attitude towards his own fans & his semi-illegal patreon (illegal in the sense that he never discloses on his account that he’s writing VLD fanfics for money):

https://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/265625.html?thread=1492373401#cmt1492373401

http://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/264405.html?thread=1485573845#cmt1485

https://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/321513.html?thread=1844915433#cmt1844915433

Lee CA’s plagiarism of another author:

http://archive.fo/TM25C

http://archive.fo/ioMRF

http://archive.fo/3kymS

http://archive.fo/yw6io

[br-dlee]

People bringing up Keith’s and Shiro’s age difference always makes me think of this Parks and Rec quote. 

[just-antithings]

Just Anti Things: and then the whole bus clapped

[legendary-discourse]

Just seeing a tweet that calls Keith a "13 years old" in the 7x01 flashback and people commenting like "oh, I didn't remember that, I forget all episodes Shallie claims as theirs, they ruins everything" and I'm kinda sad because Voltron ended five months ago, can people stop spreading misinformation especially for things they explicity says they don't remember? Sheith isn't canon, you can go and stop with this ridiculous shipwar and start give Keith his age instead of infantilizing him

That’s kinda funny antis are claiming to have forgotten every episode Shallies “claim as theirs”. Maybe we should’ve claimed them all. I even recall an anti saying they didn’t even look at the screen when Lance wasn’t on it.

For real though, I don’t recall any shallies ever claiming episodes as theirs, except maybe that time an anti wore a “Say no to she//ith” shirt to SDCC and some she//ithers commented that it was funny someone wore that to what was essentially the “she//ith episode”.

I really wish the infantilisation of Keith would end. We don’t know what age he was in the flashbacks. To my knowledge, it was never specified, but antis always seem to HC him as very young (and force that HC onto others). 

I’ve literally seen antis telling people outside the fandom that Shiro is 25 and Keith is 10-13, in order to get those people to side with them that she//ith is disgusting. It’s pathetic. Even if Keith was that young in the flashback (and I very much doubt he was) then Shiro definitely wasn’t 25 back then. You can’t just grab ages from different time periods and call that the canon age gap.

But I guess, to them, Shiro is perpetually an adult and Keith is perpetually a small child.

[sven-hates-antis]

All antis are banned from shipping wlw ships until they appologize to Bex Taylor-Klaus (a nblw)

[wandering-astral-spirit]

Anyways Shance is just as bad as Sheith and equally as bad. Also Shiro took in Keith and raised him and canonically referred to him as brother and even family but all you Shaladins hear is "I love you." How ignorant can you fucking be.

[antiantishaladin]

Antis: Sheith is predatory and its incest! Shipping it is bad and I'm gonna be an asshole to everyone who ships it !!

Me:

[pikabelle]

Antis: You can’t find Shiro attractive!!!! He’s an Asian disabled man with a mental illness!! Finding him sexually appealing is wrong and automatically fetishy!

Shiro: