#severus snape slander | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

licorice-and-rum · 11 months ago

Text

Snape's Full Character Analysis

Okay, so I’ve already made this kind of post in my previous account (licorice-lips) but since it got deleted, here I go again because I think the world should hear more about this.

I do hate Severus Snape — and I have little to no patience for those who do and try to justify his actions with whatever. But unlike many people, my dislike for Snape doesn’t stem from “oh, he’s a child abuser” or “oh, he didn’t love Lily” but from a mix of many factors involving among other things, the way R*wling portrays supremacist ideology and its followers, the way the fandom often downplays supremacist ideology and its followers, and Snape as a character himself.

Now, I’m going to extend this essay into a full character analysis instead of just commenting on how Snape’s redemption arc sucks like I did previously because I’m feeling like it. To begin, I need you to understand how… biased R*wling’s portray of supremacist ideology really is:

J.K. Rowling is European and English (duh), which means she descends from a people who benefited (a lot and still do) from colonialism and imperialism, and both things are the basis for modern day fascism. As an author myself, it’s painfully clear to me how intrinsically close my characters and works are from myself and my own personal values. As such, it’s not such a hardship — especially if we remember how the elves and goblins are portrayed in HP — to understand how Rowling views political issues such as colonialism, imperialism and fascism.

She may not realize it but the way she does talk about the matter is such a right-wing way of tolerance to fascist thinking: as it’s very clear in Harry Potter just because of the story, the problem for the author isn’t a system of prejudice and bigotry, it’s those very few people who have become corrupted. Rowling does not identify the problem as the tree being bad when most apples — save one of two — have turn out bad. And that’s the core problem of so many things in Harry Potter but it also shows in the core problem I have with Snape’s portrayal: the way she absolutely downplays the fact that the man was a death eater for years of his life by pure and absolute conviction.

As someone who lived through a fascistic government, I’ll say it with all certainty: even the slightest support to fascistic views will propel further an agenda that will end up killing innocent people by the dozens. The truth is, even with all the undeniable good Snape did as he worked as a spy, he was a Death Eater for his conviction and at the end of the day it doesn’t matter why he chose to become one.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter that he was neglected and abused by his parents, or that he was bullied in school, or that his crush didn’t reciprocated his feelings: he still became a Death Eater, he chose to become one. And that is unforgivable. It unforgivable because it means he supported and actively worked for a system of thinking that ridiculed, persecuted, tortured and murdered hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent people. He advocated for a political view that has no regard for human life, that perpetuates the abuse he suffered firsthand — just in a slightly different direction. He didn’t just not break his cycle of abuse, he actively perpetuated it. Advocated for it.

And don’t get me wrong: I’m not saying here that the abuse Snape went through isn’t important at all: there is definitely something to be said about the preying of supremacist groups for young isolated men who feel left out and emasculated. But that doesn’t mean Snape gets to be absolved for his own choices because that’s what they were: his choices. He chose to become a Death Eater, he chose to uphold the cycles of abuse he had been a victim to not long before, he chose to protect it even in the face of people — good people — telling him that it wasn’t a good thing.

That’s my point, actually: Snape may have been preyed upon by the blood supremacy ideology as a teen but at some point, he chose to be influenced by it more than by millions of other influences around him. He wasn’t completely isolated or ignorant of the world to the point that the only influence he could possibly choose was the blood supremacy one, no: he had people telling him the contrary and still chose to follow blood supremacy. So, no, it’s not forgivable that he chose to become a Death Eater because he did know better than that, his very friendship with Lily proved it.

But because Rowling sees the system — a system whose very roots are prejudice and bigotry — as not actually the problem, we see these problems sliding down the hill of “oh, he was just a misguided boy” even if that’s not what she herself says: it’s what her work says.

The truth is, as much as some supremacist’s core reason for their beliefs are a deep feeling of inadequacy, that’s not enough simply because they’ll cause as much damage with their actions than any other supremacist that’ll become a supremacist for the hatred alone. Snape, who (for some) was propelled into supremacy for his isolation in his teenage years, persecuted and tortured and killed as many people as Lucius or Bellatrix did, the result is the same. And at the end of the day, the reason why you did something doesn’t matter as much as the fact that you did do something.

We can cry a river about how our intentions were good but that doesn’t mean that what we did was. Between our intentions and our actions, there’s an abyss, and it’s not until we crossed it that we can see whether or not they are alike. In Snape’s case, considering he genuinely believed the supremacist ideology he upheld would turn the wizarding world better, it doesn’t really matter: he still caused damage.

And he has never been redeemed because for a redemption arc to work properly, you need to

Acknowledge what happened — there’s not much Snape is liable to deny it happened because, of course, he’s always caught on the scenes we are privy to.

Take accountability for what you’ve done — which Snape doesn’t do, as it’s exemplified perfectly many times throughout The Prince’s Tale in Deathly Hollows. He deflects, he lies, he declares he had no intentions of doing what he did, but he never, not once, takes accountability for what he has done and what ended up hurting other people:

“There was a crack. A branch over Petunia’s head had fallen. Lily screamed. The branch caught Petunia on the shoulder, and she staggered backward and burst into tears.

“Tuney!” But Petunia was running away. Lily rounded on Snape. “Did you make that happen?” “No.” He looked both defiant and scared. “You did!” She was backing away from him. “You did! You hurt her!” “No – no, I didn’t!” But the lie did not convince Lily.”

““…thought we were supposed to be friends?” Snape was saying, “Best friends?” “We are, Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging round with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him, Sev, he’s creepy! D’you know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?” Lily had reached a pillar and leaned against it, looking up into the thin, sallow face. “That was nothing,” said Snape. “It was a laugh, that’s all –” “It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny –” “What about the stuff Potter and his mates get up to?” demanded Snape.”

“It was nighttime. Lily, who was wearing a dressing gown, stood with her arms folded in front of the portrait of the Fat Lady, at the entrance to Gryffindor Tower. “I only came out because Mary told me you were threatening to sleep here.” “I was. I would have done. I never meant to call you Mudblood, it just –” “Slipped out?” There was no pity in Lily’s voice.”

To make amends for what you did — I’m not even going to deepen my argument on this one, it’s clear he didn’t. Not when he hurt Petunia, not when he hurt Lily, not when he hurt anyone really, the only exception being him protection Harry after telling Voldemort about the prophecy, but that’s not overcoming any patterns here, which brings me to my next point:

To accept the boundaries that you put in place as they’re on the path to earn forgiveness — which Snape also doesn’t, as exemplified in this excerpt of The Prince’s Tale:

The scene changed… “I’m sorry.” “I’m not interested.” “I’m sorry!” “Save your breath” It was nighttime. Lily, who was wearing a dressing gown, stood with her arms folded in front of the portrait of the Fat Lady, at the entrance to Gryffindor Tower. “I only came out because Mary told me you were threatening to sleep here.” “I was. I would have done. I never meant to call you Mudblood, it just –”

It’s very important to understand here that Snape doesn’t respect Lily’s boundaries of not wanting to talk to him after he called her a slur, which is also a sign of not being in a path to earn forgiveness. And forgiveness must be earned: no amount of trauma explaining our actions actually counts as an excuse for our behavior. It can explain it and thus, making forgiveness easier to achieve, but trauma doesn’t change the fact that we are responsible for our own choices and acts throughout our lives, and if we hurt someone, we have a responsibility to be accountable and make amends.

So okay, we’ve stablished that Snape has some heavy trauma to work through but that doesn’t mean he’s not liable for his own actions. Now, what we need to understand is his relationship with the Marauders. That’s a much more complicated theme, which will bring me back to Rowling and her point of view of things and how they impact her narrative and the way things are portrayed in the books.

The first thing we need to notice is that Rowling doesn’t seem much preoccupied with portraying bullying in a responsible way throughout the series. It’s clear that many of the comedic reliefs we have — especially in the form of Fred and George — are bullies in the modern, more “strict” way of seeing children’s behavior: their acts not only can be considered humiliating for some (such as Neville and other side characters in the books) but also downright cruel or dangerous. So it’s clear by her account on other similar relationships portrayed in the books that Rowling didn’t consider what Snape and the Marauders had as a bully/victim relationship.

That can be because of her age, or because of the character’s age even (they were in the 90s after all), or even a mix of both reasons, but the fact remains that she didn’t view it as bullying, so anything she writes about it will be a gross exaggeration of what she considers child rivalry. It’s one of the reasons I have the icks when anyone starts asking her for a book on the Marauders because I just know she’d butcher her way into their stories, to be completely honest.

Unfortunately, this also means it’s how Snape views it all — as something that happens between children (not saying that it didn’t cause trauma, just that he doesn’t see it as a trauma) which makes him even back up the people who do the same when he becomes a teacher, such as Malfoy and his friends. My point is that, in the building of Snape’s character, his problem with what the Marauders used to do to him wasn’t what they did but rather that they did it with him, someone Snape viewed as undeserving of it, as opposed to when someone who did deserve — such as muggleborns — were the target of said treatment:

“We are, Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging round with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him, Sev, he’s creepy! D’you know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?” Lily had reached a pillar and leaned against it, looking up into the thin, sallow face. “That was nothing,” said Snape. “It was a laugh, that’s all –” “It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny –”

So the problem in the end wasn’t the Marauder’s behavior but their target — which, of course, was him.

But the origin of the Marauder’s dislike for Snape at that point ran deep and very intricately: there was a lot of reason why we could attribute to their hatred for each other, such as house rivalry, Snape’s fixation on Remus’ secret, James’ jealousy for Lily and Snape’s friendship, Snape’s inclination for dark magic and supremacist views, Sirius overcompensation for being raised in such a prejudiced environment and as such becoming a little too aggressive about it, and many other reasons. The point is, there was a meddle of everything by the time we reach SWM.

So their relationship is just as intricate and difficult to entangle. I’m not saying here that any of my analysis exempts the Marauders from what they did — it was serious and bad and something that shouldn’t have happened at all regardless of how I feel about Snape. But as I try to analyze Snape’s character in the books, I need to be very careful on how to approach this: my morals and interpretations of what happened shouldn’t come first to what Snape’s viewed at the moment and what he took from this. So at last, what I’m saying is: as much as I know that was some hard bullying going on there, Snape didn’t see it that way, either because Rowling herself couldn’t see it that way and because the time and the time’s belief’s system wouldn’t allow him to.

Anyway, if we take any only the facts, we have — James attacked Snape sometime after Snape tried to catch Remus in the Shrieking Shack, Snape also instigated fights with James, Snape and his friends also bullied muggleborns and blood traitor — it becomes very clear that we need to balance power relations very carefully here:

On the very top, we have supremacist purebloods, which are the most privileged social group at the time, which would include people like Lucius, Bellatrix, the Lestrange brothers, most of the Blacks, and others. Then, right below, we’d have purebloods who didn’t believe in blood purity, such as Sirius, the Potters (James specially), the Weasleys, the Prewetts, the Longbottoms and others. Plus, the more I consider the wizarding world of that time, the more I realize how close halfbloods who adhered to the purist cause had a place in society that rivaled the same importance with purebloods who were considered blood traitors, sometimes ranking even higher depending on the environment or situation.

Just to be entirely clear: when I say halfbloods, I’m not only talking about those whose heritage are certain (children of muggleborns or muggles with purebloods) but also to those whose heritage couldn’t be drawn back. For example, the Sacred Twenty-Eight, the account of all pureblooded families in Great Britain, is admittedly an incomplete and slightly biased and unreliable source. They didn’t list the Potters as purebloods, for example, solely on the account of, whilst the family didn’t have any muggle relatives, there were enough muggles with the last name Potter that they weren’t sure about the family’s heritage. So it’s fair to assume a lot of people we’d been presented to as halfbloods could be pureblood familys whose heritage was slightly questioned. So yes, I’d put halfbloods who stood with blood supremacy as just as privileged as a pureblood who sided against it because of all this background. Then, we have halfbloods who didn’t approve of pureblood supremacy, muggleborns, then muggles.

It’s quite understandable by the books that, while in SWM, Snape was in a clear place of power imbalance in relation to the Marauders, the truth wasn’t always this. Mulciber and Avery are quoted as the closest to Snape (and we know very well what they’ve become after school), and although I found nothing in regards to the Mulciber family, the Averys were purebloods, so I have to place Snape as being just as privileged as the Marauders within normal (normal, not exceptional) school social dynamics in relation to blood. Of course that wasn’t truth to every power dynamic presented within the Harry Potter world, such as the Slytherin conundrum for example.

Okay, I’ll be honest with you guys here: I feel like the imbalance people accuse the adults of Harry Potter of having is grossly exaggerated sometimes. Yes, Slytherin was in disadvantage in relation to other houses, and it was looked upon by them, but the point is: ancient pureblooded families, especially the ones who were knee deep in supremacist ideology, often favored Slytherin, that is a fact.

Regardless of it been productive or not, the most blood supremacists within the house, the more we’d get comments and actions against muggleborns within school grounds that would inevitably be punished by the taking of points (and by the way, Snape was not helping congratulating Draco for his own bigotry instead of rewarding Slytherins who were actually interested in studying and working hard on their grades).

Plus, Gryffindor is the house of the protagonist — of course it’ll gain some privileges for that. If it was Ravenclawn, we’d be discussing this issue with Slytherin versus Ravenclawn points. It makes no sense accusing other of having biases like that because it’s obvious we’d have this kind of biases exactly for the plain reason it’s the protagonist’s house.

Anyway, I digress: because of the points I just made about it, the Slytherin versus Gryffindor rivalry is not enough to grant James and the others such a significative upper hand on their privilege in relation to Snape, although I would argue that Snape’s pre-existing bigotry did him no favors in the adults’ eyes on that matter, so it may have.

Now, why am I focusing on that? Because it’s clear to me that, while James and the others had a clear upper hand on their treatment of Snape in Snape’s Worst Memory, it’s not so clear as people seem to believe what the picture looked like the rest of the time. And of course, I do understand that it seems very much cemented on everyone’s minds that the configuration of the Marauders and Snape relationship was always the one we see in Snape’s Worst Memory, but that’s not completely truth and there are hints of it since the fifth book:

When Sirius said James wasn’t the only one to initiate fights, when he said Snape was always trying to sneak up on James, when we learn of the spells Snape had invented as a teenager (we can half-confidently say they were for the Marauders considering Snape’s trying to use Sectumsempra on James, but not limited to them, of course), when we get to know that Snape was “always trying” to prove that Remus was a werewolf to get him expelled, among other moments. The truth is, as much as I would like to point out the Marauders were not so bad, I can’t say this with certainty, but Snape apologists can’t say for certain they know fully the dynamics of their relationship either because even when the Marauders weren’t good people, they can’t say Snape was only a victim as well.

Or at least, they can’t say that he was the kind of victim who didn’t victimized people just like he was victimized too. And that’s probably even more reason why I dislike him, but I’ll get there. What I do know is that Snape, for his supremacist views alone, was doing a lot worse than what the Marauders were doing as teens. I’m sorry, it’s true: as much as I despise bullying, I can’t get over the fact that Snape was the equivalent of a Hitler youth child soldier in the wizarding world when he was a teenager. I’d punch him myself if I was his classmate, to be honest. Hatred aside, however, I do understand that what the Marauders did had little to nothing to do with supremacist views and all to do with being idiots, so yeah, fuck them. I’m not here to defend the Marauders anyway, just to condemn Snape (which, surprise, surprise, it’s actually possible).

Now, I dread having to go there, to be honest, but I want to talk to you guys about Snapes’ feelings for Lily. I’ve read the most grotesque and misogynistic things I’ve ever read in my life scrolling through Snape stans posts and let’s be honest here: Lily and Snape’s relationship was so toxic I would come back healthier if I went to Chernobyl than going anywhere near them together — because of Severus — and it’s actually appalling that some people doesn’t seem to think so. I’m sorry, but all the signs of classical emotional abuse signs are right there, just in the Prince’s Tale:

Belittling and constant criticism — I’m sorry, but his behavior alone says everything: you can’t treat muggleborns like they’re trash and then try to convince your muggleborn best-friend they she’s not. The belittling is in his actions. And then there’s the fact that Snape brings up accusations of Lily liking James more than once as a form of criticism as well (because neither have a good opinion of James, which is fair, but it’s still veiled criticism of Lily). Plus, his belittling of Lily’s feeling over Petunia’s hatred of her is obvious:

“I don’t want to talk to you,” she said in a constricted voice. “Why not?” “Tuney h-hates me. Because we saw that letter from Dumbledore.” “So what?” She threw him a look of deep dislike. “So she’s my sister!” “She’s only a – ” He caught himself quickly; Lily, too busy trying to wipe her eyes without being noticed, did not hear him.”

Gaslighting and controlling tendencies — when he tries to convince Lily he didn’t use magic to hurt Petunia with the tree branch, or when he questions their friendship because she’s trying to make a constructive critic of his life choices (“I thought we’re supposed to be friends?... Best friends?”), or when he tries to dictate who she’ll be friends with (when they’re discussing his own friends by the way). Even if Lily doesn’t let him, doesn’t mean it’s not abusive.

Isolation of loved ones — Constantly belittling Petunia, setting Lily and himself as above her because of their magic, convincing Lily to invade Petunia’s privacy thus isolating her further, causing rifts between Lily’s friends in Gryffindor and her because of his supremacist tendencies…

Jealousy and Possessiveness — I do think this one is self-explanatory.

Humiliation and Shaming — I also believe this one is also self-explanatory.

Unpredictable or Inconsistent Behavior — This is perfectly exemplified by their conversation when Lily is pointing out about his friends’ bad influence on him. We can see perfectly how inconsistent Snape’s behavior is, jumping from deflecting his accountability, downplaying his own bad deeds, to possessiveness and jealousy over absolutely nothing Lily has ever referenced to (try not to read what they’re saying but instead just concentrate at how abruptly Snape goes from one to the other):

“…thought we were supposed to be friends?” Snape was saying, “Best friends?” “We are, Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging round with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him, Sev, ’s creepy! D’you know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?” Lily had reached a pillar and leaned against it, looking up into the thin, sallow face. “That was nothing,” said Snape. “It was a laugh, that’s all – ” “It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny – ” “What about the stuff Potter and his mates get up to?” demanded Snape. His color rose again as he said it, unable, it seemed, to hold in his resentment. “What’s Potter got to do with anything?” said Lily. “They sneak out at night. There’s something weird about that Lupin. Where does he keep going?” “He’s ill,” said Lily. “They say he’s ill – ” “Every month at the full moon?” said Snape. “I know your theory,” said Lily, and she sounded cold. “Why are you so obsessed with them anyway? Why do you care what they’re doing at night?” “I’m just trying to show you they’re not as wonderful as everyone seems to think they are.” The intensity of his gaze made her blush. “They don’t use Dark Magic, though.” She dropped her voice. “And you’re being really ungrateful. I heard what happened the other night. You went sneaking down that tunnel by the Whomping Willow, and James Potter saved you from whatever’s down there – ” Snape’s whole face contorted and he spluttered, “Saved? Saved? You think he was playing the hero? He was saving his neck and his friends’ too! You’re not going to – I won’t let you – ” “Let me? Let me?” Lily’s bright green eyes were slits. Snape backtracked at once. “I didn’t m ean – I just don’t want to see you made a fool of – He fancies you, James Potter fancies you!” The words seemed wrenched from him against his will. “And he’s not…everyone thinks…big Quidditch hero – ” Snape’s bitterness and dislike were rendering him incoherent, and Lily’s eyebrows were traveling farther and farther up her forehead. “I know James Potter’s an arrogant toerag,” she said, cutting across Snape. “I don’t need you to tell me that. But Mulciber’s and Avery’s idea of humor is just evil. Evil, Sev. I don’t understand how you can be friends with them.” Harry doubted that Snape had even heard her strictures on Mulciber and Avery. The moment she had insulted James Potter, his whole body had relaxed, and as they walked away there was a new spring in Snape’s step…

There’s also the fact that their friendship began in a relation of power that met its inevitable demise once those specific conditions tumbled down: when Snape met Lily, he was all the source she had about the wizarding world, he was her only link to that part of herself she felt was so different from anyone else. Once Lily arrived at Hogwarts, this dependance quickly came to an end with Lily spreading her wings, which probably also took a heavy tool on their relationship because its foundation was already fragile to begin with.

However, I’m not saying here that Snape was this evil mastermind at nine years old he managed to consciously ensnare Lily into this emotionally abusive relationship all by his astute manipulation. Snape was a child of abuse and neglect and, as such, he never learned how to properly bond and stablish healthy relationships. Much like the child starved by love he was, Snape probably saw every and any other relationship Lily had as a threat to their own relationship, because he doesn’t know love is not finite — he doesn’t know love stretches to accommodate other people with the time. It’s not unreasonable for me to read their relationship as such, although I’m sure that wasn’t JK Rowling’s intentions when she wrote HP, in fact it’s more than possible to admit their friendship sucked even when Snape remembered it so fondly.

As a person who actually went through an emotionally abusive relationship, I can tell how exhausting it is to carry this person along and make up excuses for everyone around you who can clearly see that this friendship sucks but doesn’t want to tell you because it might make things worse. Specially if I’m talking about someone who believes the way you were born makes you inferior in some way, that shit really hurts even when they say you’re different because deep down, you know you’re not. Deep down, you know that you’re the exception over some crooked perception you somehow beat the odds of an inferior condition and that’s what makes you “special”. And it’s gross just to think about it.

Okay, so now I think I analyzed everything about Snape I’ve wanted to analyze, so I’ll end here my enormous rant about him and if there’s anything else I want to talk about when this starts to get hate, I’ll probably post a part two.

Bye, guys!

165 notes · View notes

the-most-faithful · 15 days ago

Text

I take down MovieFlame video (Morgan Ross) In Defense of Snape

I found a video in my YouTube feed that deals with a comparison between Snape and James and who was worse, now we know well that this clash has been going on for years and I don't think it will ever stop. The beauty of fandom is also the fact of being able to explore the subtexts, give personal interpretations and compare with other fans. So I don't want you to understand my intervention as a declaration of war against one side or the other. Whether you are supporters of Snape or James we must be honest and say that what we know through the canon is partial. We know many things, but not enough objective. James Potter is a character that we see only through the memories of a person and that is told to us. It is unfair to judge a person just by hearsay. So the comparison between Snape who appears in all the saga, and James who died in the time of the story is an unequal comparison.

My annoyance, however, comes from the certainty with which some fans, often Marauders stan (although not always) maintain that James was better than Snape. They assert it forcefully but when you dig deeper you realize that they have no solid evidence. If we don't know enough to judge James negatively then we don't have enough evidence to consider him better than Snape either. We can't have double standards on this. Either we know or we don't know. For this reason I usually avoid embarking on a comparison like this, but it is James' fans who first started, for years, to throw mud at Snape and to justify their hatred towards the character. They started comparing him to James, elevating the latter as a hero based on the little information we have. So let's move on to specifically dismantling this video, which reports most of the points that are brought up by James' defenders. (for fairness I invite you to watch the original video HERE, so you can get a personal and balanced idea) The first point brought up in the video is this:

“it's true that James bullied Snape when they were kids which wasn't right but Snape took part in this rivalry as well oftentimes going after James but people just conveniently forget that”

I would like to point out that the first part, absolutely correct, which admits that James bullied Severus, admitting that this was wrong, is followed by a BUT as big as a house. Bullying is always wrong, it doesn't matter if the victim is a good person or not, I've already discussed this point other times but I will never tire of repeating it. If you think that bullying is less serious because the victim is someone you don't like then you are blaming the victim. And this is what many fans have been doing for years. First they try to minimize the seriousness of what James (and Sirius) does, then they justify it until they deny it by claiming that it wasn't bullying. And in the first minutes of the video this is exactly what the boy tries to do.

Snape took part in this rivalry as well oftentimes going after James

Again, attention to detail, the linguistic choice, first he admitted that James was a bully and now he is instead very subtly invalidating the first part by saying that it was a rivalry, because Snape also attacked James. This means that either the first part of the sentence is false or this one is and let's look at the facts. How do we know that this thing happened? In which case in the canon are we ever shown Snape attacking James? In none, because as I said at the beginning we know little about James, we only see snippets of his life, of his attitude and then we are told what he was like by his best friends, boys who even as adults justified his bullying. How can they be reliable? The fact that Snape attacked James is not shown to us, it is only told to us and by Sirius and Remus in the fifth book, after Harry has spied on Snape's memories in which he sees James and Sirius attacking him for no reason in the worst memory. (and don't try, memories in the Harry Potter world are objective, not emotionally modified) Sirius and Remus explain to Harry how Lily started dating James, the two say that James toned down a bit in seventh year and stopped hexing people just for fun. And when Harry asks if James stopped attacking Snape, Remus says this:

"Well," said Lupin thoughtfully, "Snape was a special case. I mean, he never missed an opportunity to curse James, so it was only natural that he would react..." (Harry Potter and The Order of the Phoenix)

This is the only part used by the Marauders Stan to justify James. The subtext is clear, James stopped cursing his classmates, but not Snape because he had to defend himself. But this is simply a reversal, James has heavily bullied Snape for years, and this is canon, but if Snape defended himself and responded to the attacks according to James' defenders this makes him on par with James. In short, if a victim rebels, he is no longer a victim according to them. While on the contrary, after years of heavy bullying, if Snape attacks James and James responds then Gryffindor is the poor victim who in short has the right to defend himself? Am I the only one who smells double standards? For consistency, we should always use the same approach. Either James was a bully for six years and Snape was entitled to defend himself, so they were not on equal footing. So in the last year Snape was in the wrong and James was just defending himself. Or they were equally in the wrong all along. This second hypothesis is absurd, after all, if someone attacks you, do you just have to take it? This message is terribly dangerous. While in the first hypothesis, that is, that it is legitimate to defend oneself (even for James), then the scales tip to one side. To be clear, we are comparing six years of James's severe bullying of Snape to just one year, the last one, in which Snape instead began attacking James at every opportunity. 6 against 1 How can one year be worse than six? Six in which Snape's life was ruined, in which he was humiliated, stripped naked in public and even risked being killed in the prank? Even if we take Remus' words for granted, it means that what Snape suffered from James is clearly worse than what he inflicted on Gryffindor. So first point dismantled. (and we're only at the first minute) Let's continue:

snape disliked James because he was jealous of him he envied James' popularity but meanwhile he spent his time practicing the dark arts with other future Death Eaters there's a reason he wasn't popular like James people saw him

Once again FALSE. All this information comes from the opinions of unreliable people. I have debunked the idea of Snape's alleged jealousy of James in the past but let's get back to it quickly. Who says Snape was jealous of James? Guess what, Sirius:

“The thing is,” said Sirius, “James and Snape hated each other from the first moment, it’s one of those things… you can understand that, can’t you? Because James was everything Snape wanted to be: popular, ace at Quidditch… ace at pretty much everything. Whereas Snape was just a little weirdo up to his neck in the Dark Arts, and James – believe me, Harry – has always detested the Dark Arts.”

This is an opinion of Sirius, James's best friend. He lists things that he considers essential, being popular, an ace at Quidditch. Things that Snape has never cared about. When did Snape ever try to be popular? When did he ever care about Quidditch? The truth is that Snape hated James because from the first train ride James was hateful to him, insulting the Slytherin house that Snape hoped to end up in. James butted into the conversation between him and Lily and already on the train James and Sirius started calling him Snivellus and tripped him up. Do you really think that the antipathy was born because James was popular? James started to annoy and bully Snape right away, it is clearly shown in the canon, in the seventh book. And the question of the dark arts? Same thing is Sirius who tells us, also giving an unflattering opinion, he considered Snape "just a little weirdo immersed up to his neck in the Dark Arts" Do we trust the words of a bully to judge his favorite victim, really? “my ex was really crazy” said the ex-boyfriend who cheated on her several times. Little angel.

It's true that Snape was fascinated by the dark arts, so what? How do we know that he spent his time practicing the dark arts with other future Death Eaters? When is it shown or said? Do you really want me to believe that at Hogwarts, the safest place in wizarding England, students practice dark magic undisturbed?

“There’s a reason he wasn’t as popular as James. People saw him.”

Really? People saw it and what did they do? Didn't they warn the teachers, didn't they try to intervene? The truth is that this is an idea of Sirius that is passed off as fact without any proof. Snape was fascinated by the dark arts as were other housemates, period. People, teachers or classmates never saw him practice illegal spells, no one ever saw even the future Death Eaters do it. The strength of the precursors of the Death Eater, the Knights of Walpurgis in the era of Tom Riddle was that no one knew. Only Dumbledore SUSPECTED but he never managed to prove anything. Do you want to tell me that years later some teenage kids knew for sure what a capable wizard like Dumbledore never managed to prove about the dark wizard par excellence? This is simply ridiculous, an act once again only to try to justify James's bullying of Snape. I repeat, the subtext is always the same: Snape was a bad person, strange, passionate about the dark arts, jealous of James and therefore deserved to be bullied. This mentality, in addition to being horribly wrong, is dangerous. And do not forget, most of these suppositions are either false or unproven, so even if they were true, and it is a very big IF, they cannot justify the bullying suffered. The next point is very interesting instead, the creator of the video says this:

Lily also called Snape out because she wanted to join the Death Eaters.

This is a half-truth. The conversation you quoted comes from Snape's memories seen in the chapter The Prince's Tale in the seventh book and takes place after the worst memory in which Snape was bullied by James and Sirius, and threatened to be stripped in public, (which happens a few months after the prank) here Snape insults Lily after he saw her smile or almost while James was bullying him, he called her Mudblood. That same evening Snape went in front of the Gryffindor tower to apologize and Lily didn't accept the apology, and by bringing up the fact that Snape hung out with shady people, like Avery and Mulciber and that he himself wanted to join the Death Eaters she ended their friendship. But that's a later thing, Lily had known for a long time how Snape thought about Muggles, she knew who he hung out with and what his Slytherin classmates did and yet she remained his friend. The rift came after Snape insulted her. Lily, even if she badly tolerated Snape's ideas for years, as long as she was the exception it was fine, the problem arose only when she was personally insulted. But what interests me most is the sequel, the boy in the video says that Snape did not change his mind even to save his friendship with Lily, I quote:

“can you which for Snape is more damning than anything else I can think of thinking about this the person whose opinion he valued more than anybody else saw him as a bad person and he still didn't try to change let me repeat that Snape could not make himself a better person even for the woman that he loved like nobody else if he couldn't do it then it's clear that he could never change

This point would require a much longer and more in-depth discussion, but I will try to be brief. Snape was prejudiced against Muggles, there is no point in denying it, he frequented future Death Eaters and aspired to join them, not to torture Muggle-borns, but to gain power, to become respected. Something he never experienced. The same "good guys" who were supposed to represent good marginalized, mocked, humiliated, bullied him and were never really stopped. Snape had no one but the future Death Eaters to welcome him. Lily, his best friend, in all these years, even with the authority of Prefect, has never managed to stop the bullying or protect him properly. From his point of view, Snape's distorted one, the Death Eaters were the only way to gain respect. Statements by the author. So the idea of changing sides, of joining the good guys who humiliated or marginalized him didn't make sense. Snape improved in the future, he understood his mistakes and tried to redeem himself as an adult, but as a teenager what did you expect would happen? After his best friend also turned her back on him what should he have done? Improve in what way? Marginalizing himself even more from the only ones who accepted and appreciated him? I understand what the video is saying, if Snape loved Lily so much he should have changed for her, but in the real world it doesn't work like that. If you change just to please someone, the change is not genuine but only superficial. It's a very manipulative attitude. Real change must come from within, it must be desired by the person who implements it, not be performative. Snape will change, even if it will be many years later, precisely because he will understand his mistakes, but as a teenager he lives that separation as something definitive, so much so that he no longer gets close to Lily, respects the girl's wishes and leaves her alone. On the contrary James does the opposite, he pesters her for years, threatens her so that she agrees to go out with him. He bullies her best friend as a moral lever, lies to her and in the last year he shows himself changed to go out with her. As I said before this is a superficial change, since we know that james continues to attack snape in the last year without telling Lily. James has never apologized, he has never understood his mistakes, if there has been a change in his not cursing his classmates for fun it was precisely in function of Lily. This distorted idea that changing for the girl you like is a romantic sign is problematic. You don't have to show that you've changed for the person you like, you have to change to become a better person for yourself first and this must happen for a personal desire that cannot have any exceptions.

If James continues to attack Snape then he hasn't understood his mistakes, he has only learned to hide them. If he had really matured he wouldn't have hidden it from Lily, if he had really been the victim in his last year he could have told Lily and instead he doesn't. Shortly after the boy in the video confidently states that James has changed since in his last year Dumbledore makes him Head Boy. And this simply doesn't make sense, why should Dumbledore's judgment be a moral compass to judge James? I don't know if you realize this but every time someone tries to show how good a person James was you have to go on trust with weak assumptions:

-Lily started dating him so he got better. - Dumbledore made him head boy so he matured. - Lily married him so he was good.

These are all assumptions with big gaps. Dumbledore also gave Remus the Prefect badge in the hope that he would keep his friends at bay and we saw how it went, it didn't help. The next point really made me turn up my nose. The boy in the video brings up a very interesting point, many people who were bullied as teenagers feel empathy for Snape and understand what he felt, but the video states that no, it can't be the same thing, because someone who is bullied in real life doesn't plan for years to join a group of assassins, such as the Death Eaters. On this point I can see the logic, but saying that you understand a character, that you feel empathy for him, maybe even because it reflects a personal experience in a small way does not mean justifying his mistakes. Understanding and justifying are two very different concepts. I rationally understand Snape's actions, but on many occasions I don't agree with them. Fortunately, most people who are bullied have not joined violent groups, but that is not an absolute. The world is complex, people react differently to trauma and yes, unfortunately in reality there are victims who have joined violent groups. The classic phrase "the abused becomes the abuser" must not become a way to justify wrong actions, but as I said before it is a way to rationally understand situations.

Bullying someone, even a bad person, is never justifiable for this reason too. What you trigger in the victim is a sense of helplessness and anger. Feelings that in the worst case can lead a person down dangerous paths. Those who understand this understand how strong she was when she was young, how difficult it was to remain a good person. The saga teaches us clearly, you have to choose between what is right and what is easy. But I breathed a sigh of relief when the boy in the video said with clear feeling that he was sorry for all the people who were bullied because they didn't deserve it. I smiled slightly and thought: "finally a nice message, thank you." But before I had time to inhale, he dropped the bomb, I quote:

“you guys did not deserve to be bullied and I am so sorry that that happened to you... but Snape kind of did deserve to be bullied”

The hypocrisy of this sentence makes me tremble. He clearly said that Snape deserved to be bullied. *Ok I'll take a breath* I'll repeat it clearly: NO ONE DESERVES TO BE BULLIED. If you justify bullying you are mentally a bully. The reason why he then justifies bullying is somewhere between absurd and exasperating, once again falsehood

"Snape himself was a bully, he and his little Death Eater friends picking on the other Muggle-born students"

FALSE, I know exactly where this idea comes from and it's so tiring to have to repeat the same things over and over again. Snape never attacked or cursed any of his fellow muggleborns. Was Snape a bully? In a way yes and I'll tell you why it might be correct to call him one (the fact that I have to do it is absurd) because he called muggleborns Mudblood, all except Lily. And we know that in fictional narrative that is a very serious slur. This is where his bullying begins and ends, and yes using insults like that is a form of bullying, I agree with that.

Now, what does this tell us? That using insults is a form of bullying and therefore those who use them deserve to be bullied? Again I smell double standards. By this logic then even James deserved to be attacked by Snape last year, because for years Snape was attacked, bullied, mocked with the name of Snivellus, stripped naked in public, suffocated etc... Why is Snape a horrible bully to demonize if one uses the term mudblood while the people who tormented him for years are justified? After years now I understand the game, I know perfectly well where people want to get with this. They want to make James look like a vigilante, someone who bullied Snape to defend the muggleborns. But once again it is false. James was a bully who attacked those he considered inferior, when he was in numerical superiority. He never attacked people like Mulciber, Avery or Malfoy. James started bullying Snape as early as the train ride, long before Snape had even heard of Death Eaters.

“Snape has always been a racist, even at 11 years old.”

.Funny how the video clearly quoted the part where Lily worriedly asks if it makes a difference to her being a muggleborn and Snape says NO. Snape hesitantly says it makes no difference.

“the only reason why he said no was because he wanted to make sure that Lily liked him the way that he liked her”

Excuse me? This is your baseless assumption, Snape has been her friend for years, he defends her, helps her understand the magical world. I understand not wanting to sanctify Snape, really, he has so many flaws and no, he wasn't a wonderful person, but if you take his clear words and start from the assumption that he is lying you are being unfair. Also because I would like to point out that this is exactly what James does. He shows himself to have changed ONLY to please Lily, didn't he praise him for this just now? Even taking the boy's false interpretation as true How come if Snape does it he is a manipulative liar while if James does it he is to be praised? Oh look, another double standard has entered the room.

"James's bullying is not responsible for Snape joining the Death Eaters."

This is a simplification of the speech, the bullying that Snape suffered is not the reason why he joined the Death Eaters but it is one of the reasons, not the only one but one of the. The difference is clear. If Snape had not been bullied and marginalized, if he had been able to live the Howarts years in peace with his best friend he would not have felt the need to be accepted by the future Death Eaters. Mind you I'm not saying that he would not have been attracted to them, his childhood experiences, the violent Muggle father would have remained, but with a positive contrast and a part of the "good" who defends him and helps him he would have been much less inclined to approach the Death Eaters. But we know that with the if you don't make history, it went as it went, but pretending that the bullying suffered did not play any role means denying reality. As well as trying to make it less serious than it is.

When we then go to compare the more "adult" versions the discussion becomes even more partial because we know even less about the first war. The fact that James joined the Order as I have reiterated several times is not a sign of maturation, he has always been against the dark arts and not by choice. His parents were against it, as they were against the purist ideology. He did not have to rebel, he simply adapted to the ideals that were fortunately right. Could he ever not have been interested in the war? Actually not since his wife was a target because she was Muggle-born and shortly after his son too. It is not a sign of maturation and if I may say so, not even of who knows what reasoning. Even Peter Pettigrew joined the Order, what does this prove?

The whole next part is based on pointing out that if Snape hadn't told Voldemort the prophecy, the Potters would be alive, but once again what ifs lead nowhere. If Snape hadn't eavesdropped on the prophecy and told Voldemort, the events that led to his destruction wouldn't have been triggered and we would never have had the saga. Drama is the engine of events. In the narrative fiction, Snape was reporting important information to his boss, he didn't torture or attack anyone, he just passed on information without knowing what it would lead to. What's the point of blaming him for what follows? Do we use the same reasoning for all the other characters in the saga? I don't think so, so let's not waste too much time on it.

Another great classic:

snape was going to let Voldemort kill a baby and probably its whole family without batting an eye until he realized that Lily was involved he asked for mercy only for her and even Dumbledore is disgusted that Snape doesn't care that James and Harry die.

I have often spoken about this and it is always the same story, couldn't Snape ask for mercy also for Harry who was Voldemort's main target and poor James? Why would Snape have cared about the boy who made his life hell? Snape dared to ask for mercy for Lily and to be sure he also went to Dumbledore risking his life. Allying himself with Dumbledore is a clear betrayal towards Voldemort, if he had been discovered he would have been killed. And I would like to remind you that Snape is terrified of Dumbledore at this point in the story, so much so that as soon as he sees Dumbledore appear he begs him not to kill him Dumbledore is then disgusted by what exactly? From his interpretation of events. Dumbledore thinks that Snape wants Lily all for himself. How distorted is this thing? It is disturbingly similar to what Voldemort thinks. Snape doesn't want Lily, he just wants her to be spared and is so panicked that he asks Dumbledore for help.

snape aided Voldemortin killing a baby without batting an eye

Ehm, no? Snape couldn't know that the prophecy was referring to a child, the prophecy is not clear, it is only said that whoever has the power to defeat Voldemort approaches. Approaches does not necessarily mean is about to be born.

I also approached the supermarket checkout yesterday to pay, I wasn't born in front of it. Snape learned that the prophecy referred to a child, Harry, only after Voldemort interpreted it that way. As soon as he learned that it referred to him and therefore Lily, he was activated. (and for those who pretend not to understand cause and effect, Snape's request to spare Lily is what allowed Lily's sacrifice to take effect)

james Potter died protecting his family and died a hero meanwhile Snape changed sides because he was obsessed with a girl who he called a racial slur and who probably hadn't given him a second thought since that incident snape holding on to this high school crush is creepy and honestly the fact that he even loves Lily in the first place is

James died protecting his family, true great thing he risked his life to try to protect the ones he loved. Commendable. Snape risked his life to protect the ones he loved by starting to snitch on silent after silent made it clear to him that he was disgusted by him and was clearly trying to use him. He risked his life for years. Disturbing.

Hey look at more double standards. Also this whole obsession thing really tired my soul. You want to think that Snape was obsessed? Ok say it, I don't feel like repeating it all over again, I made a whole video about it, HERE. (Italian Version)

"honestly the fact that he even loves Lily in the first place is pathetic because Lily never showed any sign of feeling the same way i get it if you're hung up on your first high school girlfriend but Lily was never even close to that for Snape in fact most of their middle school and high school career she was questioning their friendship"

Really Morgan? Is unrequited love pathetic? I've had friends confess to having a crush on me and even though I didn't reciprocate I never thought they were pathetic. A relationship like that, as turbulent as you want, wasn't questioned until Lily was insulted, she and Severus had been BEST FRIENDS for years. She had doubts about Avery and Mulciber and exposed them to Snape of course but she never questioned Snape until her worst memory.

"Everyone commemorated James' heroic death"

But don't tell me? James was loved and popular, right? What's surprising about him being praised after his death? Can I remind you that even Peter Pettigrew was considered heroic because he faced Sirius until he lost his life against him? At least in public opinion. Whoever dies in war becomes a hero, wow what news.

Snape became a teacher at Hogwarts spending his days bullying children as an adult people fault James for bullying a kid when he was a kid but Snape bullied innocent children as a grown man there was no excuse for that no matter how hard you were bullied.

Ah here we are, the comparison out of scale. James is dead so he is a hero, Snape survived, the comparison should stop there, you can't make a comparison between a dead person and a living person. Snape treats some students badly? Absolutely yes and I have already spoken about it. Is it unfair? Absolutely yes, but what does this prove? You see him getting closer, right?

The point is simple, James was a bully (so at least he admits he was) but as a boy, teenager against teenager, while Snape (bad guy) takes it out on children. What is there to do with it? first James is a bully, then he isn't, then in reality it's a rivalry, then he still was but he matured and Snape still deserved it and the thesis changes again, James was a bully but less serious because he took it out on those his own age. All aimed at downplaying James's faults. But he is totally blind to the evidence, even at the same age James always took it out on those who were lower than him, he attacked classmates (not just Snape) in numerical superiority 2 against 1, in superiority of magical ability, in superiority of status, he was popular and the others were not. by Sirius' own admission many turned a blind eye when they did these things. Where would the equality be?

But hey the video doesn't end there, everything that is brought up after that is already tired and hackneyed points, Snape bullied the students? I talked about it HERE. Snape was Neville's Boggart I also talked about this HERE. Then he goes on to say that Snape treated Harry badly in the first lesson because he still hates James and also the fact that Snape saved Harry's life in the first book doesn't count because he didn't do it to atone for his guilt but because he had a suspicious account with James, because he had a life debt since James saved him from The Prank.

Snape couldn't bear being in your father's debt i do believe he worked so hard to protect you this year because he felt that would make him and your father quit then he could go back to hating your father's memory in peace

But guess what? This is a supposition of Dumbledore who in order not to reveal the truth to Harry says this thing but it is HIS SUPPOSITION. I understand that Dumbledore is wise and knowledgeable but he really is not the omniscient narrator, not everything he says is true and we know it well. Snape feels guilty and tries to atone as he can. Invalidating his commitment to saving Harry is absurd and unfair.

this was not heroic whatsoever it was immature selfish psychopathic and honestly I would even say evil

Ok there is only one thing I can agree with here, Snape is immature in some ways, he is in his early 30s and has some immature attitudes. but selfish? he sacrificed his life to fight voldemort, he gave up everything, he risked himself over and over again to protect Harry and not only that. How can you call him selfish? If he was, he simply wouldn't have agreed to be a spy, he wouldn't have cared. psychopathic? really a term used inappropriately just because it sounded good, I guess. evil for what? I'm really curious about this

"I will admit that Snape was brave for going behind Voldemort's back..."

oh great, at least this is... no wait talk again

"but the reason why he did this wipes away any credit he would get for it the fact that his inspiration for this was his “love” for Lily is concerning."

Oh well, even a brave thing he did is invalidated because he did it for the love of Lily, what a surprise. Then he tries to get back to the obsession thing and it reaches new levels of detail:

"he had not spoken to Lily since he called her a mud blood 22 years ago his last memory of her was a 16-year-old girl while he was a 38-year-old man thinking about this I'll let you sit on that for a second his obsession with Lily for 22 freaking years is disturbing"

Ok please tell me I'm not the only one with an image in my head here. it's clear what Morgan is referring to right? Snape alone in a dark room that reminds of his adolescence, remembers Lily, her beautiful green eyes, her red hair and then he goes down and... OMG I know I know some James stans are wild but this is just hilarious. You want me to believe that you actually spent time thinking about snape going you-got-it? This is disturbing, the fact that you thought about it. xD This is just a rather sick assumption by some fans, disturbed on multiple levels but with no basis in canon.

Snape may have died a brave man but he also died as a man who brought nothing but harm to the world.

How annoying is it that there is always a BUT? Snape is brave BUT... Snape saved Harry BUT... Snape gave his life BUT... We could do the same with James, but we're better than that, I hope.

nobody was better off because Snape was on this earth.

Of course not, except that without Snape, as mentioned before, the events that led to Voldemort's two downfalls would never have happened. But hey, who cares, right?

everything that made him a hero and made people argue that he was a good person was avoidable if as James said he wasn't alive he should not be commemorated the way James a true hero was

If Snape had died during the first war, you mean? Well, he certainly wouldn't have been considered a hero because he wasn't one yet. Really, what kind of nonsense reasoning is that? If James had died at 14, he wouldn't have been remembered as he is remembered in the canon for fighting Voldemort. But thanks to Zeus, it's obvious. Snape becomes a hero later, and is remembered as such for this, just like James. The fact that James was a bully doesn't erase his merit in fighting Voldemort, but the opposite is also true, merits don't erase guilt. This also applies to Snape, his guilt doesn't erase merits and his merits don't erase his guilt.

snape is an evil person and always was james' bullying might have brought that out a bit but deep down it was always in there

Evil again, I would like to understand why, but obviously it doesn't go any further, because all the things listed are just a constant invalidation of Piton's merits and belittling his suffering. even here, when for the umpteenth time he retracts on the bullying he suffered he ends up saying that the bullying he suffered only brought out that part of him but it was always there.

"if you're still defending Snape after everything I just went over you are absolutely delusional i'll leave you with these words FU*K Snape"

Yes the video ends like this. Very mature I would say xD. I am Snape Stan precisely because I can dismantle all these weak arguments. The real delusionals are those who for years have tried to throw mud on a character as complex and imperfect as Snape, driven by anger and precisely by disappointment because there are those who can appreciate a gray character and see heroism even in a not so nice person. And to justify all this it is precisely the James Stans who have started this unequal comparison that they are always destined to lose, in which they compare a complete character with one who only appeared in past scenes.

I also made the video version DEBANK SNATER'S ACCUSATIONS - YouTube

@moonlightdancer26 @doeprince-blog @snapedefender @snapedefense @soraya-snape @lilithofpenandbook

#marauders era #pro snape #snape stan army #stan snape #anti james potter #anti sirius black #james potter was a bully #snape was a victime #snape defender #snape defense #james is worse than snape #anti snape slander #anti snapeslander #anti snape don't know the canon #snape slander are delusional #snape stan #pro severus snape

40 notes · View notes

severussnapemylove · 1 year ago

Text

Reached a new level of wondering how Marauders fans minds work. Saw someone say that James Potter is like Elle Woods from Legally Blonde.

Elle would hate the Marauders. James and Elle are nothing alike. Elle would never bully someone or mistreat someone for being different.

However she would end up adopting Severus and giving him a makeover and a self-esteem pep talk.

#This person either has no clue about James or Ell #Elle would never bully someone for being different #I will stand for no Elle Woods slander #anti marauders #anti marauders fandom #pro severus snape #harry potter universe #Elle woods #legally blonde

150 notes · View notes

ghosts-r-real-i-swear · 1 year ago

Text

Me when people invalidate SA victims to slander snape

#snapedom #severus snape #pro snape #marauders fan slander #marauders slander

216 notes · View notes

always-reading · 1 year ago

Text

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

#marauders #james potter #dead gay wizards from the 70s #snape slander #anti severus snape #anti snape #he was an asshole #James potter <3 #he’s so bbg

129 notes · View notes

jewishregulus · 1 year ago

Text

well

#not snape slander i actually think he’s funny af so that’s why this exists #severus snape #regulus black #james potter #sirius black #lily evans #peter pettigrew #remus lupin #marauders #marauders era #shitpost

115 notes · View notes

atyd1960 · 2 years ago

Text

The more I think about it the more I'm confused about Snape's so called "redemption arc":

We don't know much about his years at Hogwarts outside of the time James hanged him from his underwear and he called Lily a Mudblood, but we know that:

1. He had a disdain for Muggles ever since he was born or at least ever since he was 10 y/o bc that's when he meets Lily and Petunia and treats the latter like garbage.

2. He was friends with Mulciber and Avery- known death eaters, especially Mulciber who we know was particularly close with Baldy due to the time he came to Hogsmede with him for his job interview with dummydore.

From that we can assume that he was a witness and a participant in A Lot of hate crimes against Muggle Borns ever since he was a minor. One of which was the time Mary was the victim.

3. We know HE invented the spell James used to hang him from his panties, which must mean that he used it against others, probably muggle borns, and his DE friends must've used it as well.

4. We know he invented the spell Sectumsempra to use against his enemies?? (Sorry it's been a while since I read the books I don't remember the exact quote.) and his enemies are almost certainly the Marauders. Also maybe his dad but that's a discussion for another day.

5. We know he was one of Baldy's dearest death eaters, even tho he was a Half-Blood with no status and no connections, which means he definitely did a lot of horrific things to Muggles and Muggle borns and the members of the Order of Phoenix.

6. We know he heard Trelawney's prophesy after eavesdropping in a bar, and immediately ran to Baldy with it. He knew that by telling Baldy about the prophecy an innocent baby will be killed, and he didn't give a shit. I cannot stress enough how much that information in vital for his character. Taking a baby's life so that Baldy might give him a sit closer to him by the table. And nothing would've happened to him if he shut his mouth and didn't go to Baldy. He didn't have his life or even his status\loyalty on the line. He just sacrificed this anonymous innocent baby for kicks and giggles.

7. The only point in which he cared about his actions was when Lily's life was on the line. This wanker really didn't care that he just gave Baldy (a man who made it his life' mission to kill Lily and the likes of her) a reason to kill Lily's son and husband, who were practically her only source of joy while she fought against his people in the war. He just wanted the girl he slurred and stalked and mistreated in high-school to live with all her friends and family dead. And thought he was doing something good. I don't even know how to begin to describe how fucked up that is.

8. He went to Dummydore and asked him to save her. After he got her, her husband and her kid to be under an even worse constant death threat than they were before because of Lily's blood status and their participant in the order. And after he spent the last 3-4 years killing Lily’s friends and the people who share her blood status.

9. That was also the point in which he offered himself to be a double spy right?? Again real heroic of him to risk his life after all the shit he did because he was in love with a girl whose life he ruined. He never cared about all the shit he did and all the people he murdered and he never actually wanted to help innocent people or do good by the world or even by Lily.

10. After Baldy died for the first time and the first war ended, Harry had nobody left, and Dummydore put him with Petunia and Vernon. Snape knew better than anyone else what the Dursleys will do to Harry. He knew everything, and he didn't do shit. Not only did he not do shit, but he also made things worse for Harry by bullying and harassing him since the moment he stepped foot in the castle.

11. Extending on the last point- Snape bullied, harassed, abused, mistreated and discriminated against students at Hogwarts ever since he started teaching there, I'm not gonna start elaborating on all the times he did those things because that would take a different essay of similar length.

12. If Voldemort chose to go after Neville instead of Harry, Snape would live and die as the most loyal Death Eater ever

So to conclude: am I really expected to forgive him because he loved Lily and had a hard time with James when they were 16 and he spied for Dummydore for a bit?? Being a loser in middle school and then becoming a double spy doesn’t make up for… anything. Especially since he never stopped being a terrible person.

#stan bambi #Stan Lily Evans #Snape slander #redemption arc #marauders era #first Wizarding war #severus snape #Harry Potter #Slytherin #Snape hate #death eaters #character analysis #stan james potter #order of phoenix #Voldemort #Dumbledore

191 notes · View notes

poseidons-getting-milk · 1 year ago

Text

ik cannon is lame and all that, but it’s kinda funny that one of the only things we know about Evan is that he was friends with Snape and we all chose to ignore it. Like he’s mentioned like twice and one of them is saying he was close with Snape.

#our hate for snape just runs deep #tho my personal timeline says they were only friends until Evan met barty and reg #marauders #rosekiller #barty crouch jr #evan rosier #snape slander #severus snape #snape hate #snape

58 notes · View notes

sevilynne · 8 months ago

Text

I don't get how people still hate Severus when Harry was the one who apparently experienced "trauma" from him, and Harry is Severus's #1 biggest defender now.

"Snape bullied kids!"

And Minerva (And other professors) did too but you completely ignore them and focus on your prejudices with Severus. The fact that Severus threatened Neville into poisoning his toad and Minerva literally locked out a child from the Gryffindor common room when apparently there's a mass murderer inside of Hogwarts shows a huge difference. You justify Minerva's actions because you either like her or you don't hate her as much as you do with Severus.

Severus says Hermione is a know-it-all and Minerva degraded (and publicly humiliated) Neville saying that he'll never be able to transfigure a teapot.

Then here we have Hagrid disfiguring a child and insults his appearance because he hates his dad.

And the difference is, Severus would never disfigure a kid.

Madam Pince literally hexed Ginny and Harry's things. Mcgonagall sent four children into the forbidden forest with HAGRID, she knew what she was doing when she sent them with Hagrid. If Neville did that? He would serve detention with her.

She bent the "First Years aren’t allowed their own Broomsticks" for HARRY. That's favouritism and that's all because Slytherin was dominating the House Cup. Would Severus bend the "First Years aren’t allowed their own Broomsticks" for Draco just because he wants a medal sticking in his office? No.

Minerva let Severus bully the Golden Trio (Primarily Harry) through Years 1-6, why did she let that happen? Why didn't she tell her colleague off? Well, that would be hypocritical considering she also does that.

In Year 7, she allows DEs to torture students.

She was mad at Fake Professor Moody because he transfigured a student and not the fact that he was repeatedly banged a students head on the ground.

Minerva is just as bad as Severus, she gave them harsh punishments but you guys look in deep in Harry's biased point of view that you guys think Minerva is just strict and Severus bullied children.

And if Minerva was just "strict" to Harry, imagine what she did with other students? She practically bullied them.

Haha... But no. We should just look at Severus because he's the bad guy and not because the wizarding world's punishments are completely different from real life / muggle views. These type of stuff are normal (and controversial) in the wizarding world. SEVERUS WASN'T THE ONLY PERSON TO DO THIS.

Everyone did this as a professor, it's normal in the wizarding world. This is not to justify Severus's actions, but if you hate Severus and like other professors... Then you're a hypocritical person.

"Severus became a DE!"

He was in Slytherin, he was influenced by the Pure-Blood obsession that people in his house had. He simply became a DE because he was a curious child who wanted to learn about the dark arts.

Did Severus torture or kill people like death eaters like Barty and Bellatrix did? Haha...

To put my last post about this in summary:

Severus was neglected by his parents (And heavily implied that he was also abused), gets bullied by two boys resulting in 4v1 (This was because he wanted to go to Slytherin. He sneered back and James & Sirius wanted to bully Severus because they were two spoilt brats who cannot let "Snivellus" sneer back since they'll never get used to someone sneering at them [Since they always get away with it] They come from two rich pure-blood families, what did you expect?), almost gets killed and Remus nor Sirius gets any consequences about it, his life is worth a detention to Dumbledore. James flexes to Lily that he saved Severus's life (With a modified version of the prank since she'll know about Sirius were primarily involved in a negative way and it's his best friend right?) and Lily, his apparent best friend, BELIEVES HIS BULLY OVER HIM. This is what you call the only positive thing in his life? If this is what you call the only positive thing in his life, then his life is fucked up. Lily holding her smile and blushing while James does horrible things to her best friend, gets surprised and furious when Severus calls her a mudblood, then his private part being showed to the whole school.

I would be heavily embarrassed if I were Severus, no, I would honestly cry and drop out.

Severus got manipulated and heavily influenced by rich, pure-blooded Slytherins because he was given the respect that he never got in his life, he was influenced to have prejudiced thoughts when he never had those thoughts when Lily got her letter, infact, he comforted her. That says A LOT about this. Severus was invited into that DE cult because he wanted more of that respect—more of that power—more of the fame. He just wanted to feel respected. Because that was what he was not given at Hogwarts.

"Snape deserved the bullying, he bullied the Marauders in the train. / Someone had to do it."

Who threw the first direct insult? Sirius. Who threw the first indirect insult? James. What did Severus do? Sneer back. Did he deserve those years of bullying? No.

You literally take references from ATYD and other #severussnapeslander Wolfstar, Jily, Rosekiller, and Jegulus fics from AO3. Don't act like Sirius and James aren't worse.

When did he deserve to almost die? When did he deserve to get bullied every single day? When did he deserve to get sexually harassed?

How would you feel if it was you?

How would you feel if the people who bullied you were painted as heroes?

People who sexually assaulted and almost killed you?

The lack of empathy from Mstans just prove that they are vicious bullies bullying an eleven year old and calling the kid derogatory names doesn't make you less of an evil person as Severus is.

At least have the respect to call him by his last name.

"James and Draco aren't similar! James is better than Draco."

James literally sounds like the worst version of Draco Malfoy.

┌── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ──┐

"Imagine being in Hufflepuff, I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?" - Draco Malfoy, Philosopher's Stone.

"Who wants to be in Slytherin? I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?" - James Potter, Deathly Hallows.

- Laughs at a muggle woman getting SA'd in Quidditch world cup, finds it funny, and makes a joke of Hermione getting SA'd. -

“Granger, they’re after Muggles,” said Malfoy. “D’you want to be showing off your knickers in midair? Because if you do, hang around . . . they’re moving this way, and it would give us all a laugh.”

- Sexually assaults Severus and finds it funny, uses it to impress Lily. -

There was another flash of light, and Snape was once again hanging upside-down in the air.

'Who wants to see me take off Snivelly's pants?'

— Both are rich purebloods —

- Draco saves Harry to make sure his family doesn't get in trouble -

"There's something there," he whispered. "it could be the scar, stretched tight.... Draco, come here, look properly! What do you think?"

Harry saw Draco's face up close now, right beside his father's.

"I don't know," he said, and he walked away toward the fireplace where his mother stood watching.

- James saves Severus to make sure his friends doesn't get in trouble -

└── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ──┘

We aren't even talking about James and Draco being bullies who have no empathy for their victims, sure, James isn't just one-dimensional and Draco is morally grey, but James was just caring around his friends, other than that? Not so much. He was stuck with his friendgroup being sycophants (Sirius because James loved him as a brother, Remus who didn't want to speak up about the bullying because James and Sirius picked him up even if he was a poor half-blood, and Peter who wants to fit in.) Draco was stuck with Slytherins being sycophants because he was a rich, high status pure-blood with friends he made as slaves.

Both were spoiled, arrogant, attention-hungry, and self-entitled, traits common among children of their background. Draco would bully the kind of people James befriended, while James would bully the kind of people Draco associated with.

"Snivellus—"

If you're fine with calling Severus a derogatory name, you must be fine calling Luna "Loony" as well.

"Severus called Lily a mudblood."

Severus was a mudblood as well, you wouldn't care if people–of–colour use the N-word on others but you care if Severus does?

Severus also said that in the heat of moment, his best friend did literally NOTHING for the minutes of time he was getting assaulted and she was a prefect.

He said that for masculinity.

Lily didn't do anything for the period of while he was getting assaulted, instead, she held her smile.

Severus would've casted an unforgivable to James or Sirius or anyone who would've done that to Lily, but Lily did the opposite.

Instead, she stood there, blushing.

Severus apologized to her numerous of times, probably not even knowing what his best friend did.

Not justifiable, but still a very good argument.

"Lily was a good friend."

You call LILY a good friend? The one who would believe her best friend's bully over her best friend? The one who would laugh and blush while her best friend gets physically assaulted? The one who watched her best friend get assaulted AND she was a prefect.

Lily was NOT a good friend, she was a terrible one. I also will always held on that Lily secretly waited for the Mudblood incident to drop Severus off, you know, since Severus was a weirdo.

“They don’t use Dark Magic, though.” She dropped her voice. “And you’re being really ungrateful. I heard what happened the other night. You went sneaking down that tunnel by the Whomping Willow, and James Potter saved you from whatever’s down there—”

They don't use dark magic? It doesn't stop them from bullying kids. She doesn't even know the whole story and yet, she is judging.

- She lashes out on Severus instead of her sister -

"I don’t want to talk to you-" she said in a constricted voice. "Why not?" "Tuney h-hates me. Because we saw that letter from Dumbledore.”

It's basically Severus's fault because they got the letter and Petunia didn't? She blames Severus for getting the letter and not her sister for her jealousy?

Lily, whose furious expression had twiched for an instant as though she was going to smile said - let him down!

Ah... Yes, let's watch our best friend get assaulted infront of the whole school and let them be. That's a very nice best friend.

Now tell me, where was she a good friend? She was not an angel, she was terrible.

She also blames Severus for having Evan, Mulciber II, Avery, Wilkes, Rodolphus, and possibly having Narcissa, Lucius, Rabastan, and Regulus as well. Did she expect that she would only be Severus's friend considering he's in a house full of pure-bloods? It was an unspoken rule in Slytherin to basically have pure-blood friends. She doesn't get that, she doesn't understand him, because he is evil in her eyes.

She doesn't get the points that Severus makes, because Severus was already bad in her eyes.

He had questionable company, sure, but Severus wanted companions too like she did with other Gryffindors, so why can't he have friends in his house. She's friends with Gryffindors who basically despise him.

So if he was friends with people that would've called her a mudblood and she didn't like it, why is she inlove with a Gryffindor who bullied Severus anytime he got?

Severus called Lily a mudblood because he was being humiliated infront of the whole school, he didn't want her to see him being weak, so he lashed out.

He was a Slytherin, pretty common by now that his banquet of friends used that word pretty often, and there you have it. Severus never meant to hurt Lily, but it did slip out of his tongue.

Not justifying his actions here (Pretty obvious by my wording) but Lily was NOT innocent in terms here.

"Snape was obsessed with Lily."

Ahh... Yes. Severus was the one who forced Lily to go out with him, Severus was the person to bully her best friend, Severus told her to go out with him and he wouldn't bully his best friend anymore.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Because it's not him.

Severus grieved Lily the way Sirius grieved James, yet you don't call Sirius obsessed because he loved James as a brother, Severus's love for Lily was never proved to be romantic.

Aha! Now I made you think.

The same patronus means true love—not obsession. He stayed away from her marriage but still loved her from afar, when he realized the information he gave Voldemort could harm Lily, he offered his life to Dumbledore. He even asked Dumbledore to save James for the sake of Lily.

Sirius would've done the same for James.

After Lily's death, he was devastated, he wished he were dead, he became spy for Dumbledore, and all of that.

Severus and Lily were childhood best friends; Lily was Severus's only "true" friend.

His patronus was a doe, pure light magic (Hence most DEs can't perform a patronus). It wouldn't be affected by obsession.

I don't get why some people think Severus was purely obsessed with Lily, because there will always be a special person in someone's heart and Lily just happens to be Severus's special person.

Even Sirius and Remus who were capable of making such lies about Severus in order to hide everything from Harry, didn't say nothing about Severus stalking Lily or tried to persue her.

She dies and he feels suicidal.

Why do people think this is obsession? Severus had no one, the reason why Sirius could hold himself before he died is because he wanted to take care of Harry, to love him like he loved James. Severus couldn't because he's a death eater and he couldn't love himself, how can he love Harry when Harry looks exactly like his bully. And Severus can't take care of Harry legally anyway, Sirius could because he is his godson.

If Severus was obsessed with Lily, then Harry was obsessed with his dead dad : /

JK. Rowling even said that he wasn't obsessed, how are people so pressed about it?

I just don't get it, why would JK. Rowling write Severus's obsession with Lily and offering his whole life just to have s*x with her everyday on a CHILDREN'S BOOK?

Meanwhile James: - Doodled her initials in his OWL paper, publicly humiliated her friend just to make him look bad in front of her, tried to blackmail Lily into dating him, threatened to hex her and had a map that literally tracked down everybody's (including Lily's) movements. -

"Severus made sure Remus was gone from Hogwarts."

Yes after Remus endangered three children, he already got away with it the first time, he shouldn't in another time.

Remus was completely irresponsible and forgot to take Wolfsbane, sure, he was a good DADA professor, but almost killing three children?

I don't think the Grangers nor Weasleys would want to hear about this.

Thank you for reading my paragraphs of how stupid Mstans can be.

Not everything is about defending Severus, but the double standards are crazy...

Yes, Severus told the prophecy, bullied children, etc. But he's a two-dimensional character who saved the Wizarding World, if Severus didn't apologize to Lily, you'd attack him too.

So... Stop using ATYD references and start adding braincells in your head.

Have a great day! 😓

(Add more if you want to.)

265 notes · View notes