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emotionallychargedtowel · 3 months ago

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what's different about Hatano, part 4

Part 1 is here, part 2 is here, and part 3 is here. This is the last post in this series. It's possible I could have other thoughts to add on this subject down the line someday, but this covers all of the factors I set out to discuss when I started.

As in my other Hatano posts, all of these gifs were made by @my-rose-tinted-glasses. I'm so grateful that I'm able to benefit from her detailed and discerning work.

I wrote in part 1 about how Hatano cuts to the chase and immediately confesses to Mob, cutting out the usual preliminaries that Mob uses as warning signs that show he needs to escape a situation. In part 2, I talked about how Hatano seems to have some degree of awareness of Mob's fourth wall-breaking/almost nonstop voiceover-using tendencies, along with how Hatano relates to Mob's relationship to the audience. In part 3, I wrote about Hatano's perseverence, his strategy of making a move and then running away, and the way the age gap factor functions in his favor. I'm going to conclude by talking about a couple of factors that are a bit more profound.

Hatano sees Mob as a three-dimensional person and treats him as such and Mob does the same for him, at least some of the time (something only one other pursuer, Kikuchi, is able to say).

There’s one area in which Hatano differs from most of Mob’s suitors, but is comparable to Kikuchi. Both Kikuchi and Hatano are treated with real consideration by Mob at times, for reasons that have important implications.

Mob usually doesn’t give much thought to the feelings of the people who try to wrangle him into a BL situation. In a way, he flips character statuses on their heads. Mob aims to be a side character, but he treats the typical BL suitor as if they’re a kind of NPC. Their feelings don’t matter—he doesn’t even seem to see them as real.

This makes sense given the way the other characters treat him. When they don’t see Mob for who he is, even a little bit, he doesn’t grant them that consideration either. In the opening theme of season 3, Mob says that one of his objections to Boys’ Love is how absurd it is. This might sound like he just doesn’t like it because it’s cringe as hell, and that’s a factor. But the absurdity of L with a B is bigger than that. (It has to do with something I alluded to in part 2.)

Let’s think about some of the things that form the basis of some of Mob’s close calls in season 3. One guy starts to fall in love with Mob because he slips on his stray tennis ball and almost falls. Another wonders aloud if they’re soul mates because they use the same shampoo. Mob has to be careful how he responds to a guy who tickles him in order to avoid having him fall for him (and the tickler ends up going for the guy he tickles right after Mob). These are absurd reasons to fall in love, and part of the problem with that is that falling on a tennis ball, using shampoo, and being tickled don’t say anything substantive about the person who does them.

Nobody wants to be loved for some random circumstantial reason that renders us interchangeable with pretty much anyone who might have stumbled into the same situation. We want to be loved because of who we are—because we have certain qualities a person values, because we did things that meant something to them, because they saw something special in us. We want to be loved for specific reasons that matter. The absurdity of those thin excuses for falling in love is related to how meaningless they are. Mob says he’s simply opposed to falling in L with a B, no matter what. But it could also be accurate to say that he avoids falling in L with a B who doesn’t value him for any specific reason or see him as an distinct person.

Only two people give more thought to Mob and seem to see him as a fleshed-out human being: Kikuchi and Hatano. Both could stand to know him better, but by the standards of the world of BL, they're remarkable.

Kikuchi’s original reason for liking Mob, the kindness he showed him when he helped him use a copy machine at their university, is only a tiny bit more complex than the reasons other characters become interested in him. But over the course of the first two seasons, Kikuchi shows more depth of thought about Mob than anyone else has. In season 2, when Kikuchi watches Mob from afar, he notices things. He even says that part of the reason Mob inspired him to study to be a veterinarian is the concern Mob shows toward cats. It’s a really neat sort of turn in the story. Up to that point, the viewer, like Mob, sees cats as showing up in fateful moments to send Mob into story traps. But the only reason Mob falls when a cat walks in front of him is the fact that he cares enough to try not to hurt cats. Kikuchi notices this and actually cares about it. I’d argue that he reads too much into it, which is a bit reminiscent of Mob’s more absurd pursuers. But at least he notices real things that Mob does, which the others seldom do. (At the very least, Mob really does care a great deal about cats in the manga. That version of Mob not only has a family cat, who he dotes on, but he also looks at cat photos on his phone when he’s bored.)

Hatano doesn’t make note of specific actions Mob takes in the present or the recent past very much, in the way Kikuchi does. But his feelings for Mob are still based on something he did: the time he helped him out when he was stranded with a broken bike as an elementary-schooler, back when Mob was in middle school. (Mob cuts Hatano’s story off before he says what Mob did to help, going into voiceover mode over Hatano’s dialogue, but it's clear that Mob at least helped Hatano fix his bicycle. It seems likely that he also provided some degree of comfort, since Hatano says he was in tears at the time and Mob compares the incident to the one he just witnessed with the sad middle-school boy and the refreshingly handsome grad student who reassures him.)

There’s one thing in this vein that Hatano does that Kikuchi doesn’t, and that is that he tries to protect Mob. This comes up around the risks posed by an age gap relationship. When Hatano asks to temporarily rescind his confession after learning how strongly people would disapprove of their relationship, he isn’t worried about the social consequences for himself—all he cares about is how they might affect Mob. In fact, he works himself up into such a state worrying about him that he imagines him being sent to jail even though it’s perfectly legal for a guy in his early 20s to date and even have sex with a 17-year-old in Japan. So backing off—for a while, at least—from pursuing Mob is something he does purely out of solicitude for Mob’s safety and well-being.

Both Hatano and Kikuchi see Mob as a specific person, not just some guy who slipped on a tennis ball and so forth. And at least some of the time, he returns the favor. He remembers details about them. He tries to spare their feelings, at least up to a point. When he goes to a bar with Kikuchi in the last episode of season 3 and assures him there’s nothing going on between him and Hatano, it may be the most consideration he shows any of his suitors in the entirety of the series. But he acts similarly toward Hatano after Kikuchi first approaches them. When Hatano starts to take his leave, Mob protests that he doesn’t have to go, denies that he needs to have a talk with Kikuchi. You could argue that he’s just trying to avoid being alone with Kikuchi, but I don’t think that’s the case. He seems genuinely concerned, at least to some extent. In this regard, Kikuchi and Hatano have a related kind of status in Mob’s mind.

There’s another context in which Mob interacts with Hatano, where he’s cordial, even chummy. It’s a context that’s unique to Mob’s relationship with Hatano: their time acting in a BL together.

Acting in a BL together shifts the dynamic between Mob and Hatano, quieting Mob’s fourth-wall-addressing side and heightening emotions even when they aren’t in front of the camera.

I talked in part 2 about Mob’s tendency to break the fourth wall/make constant voiceover commentary to the audience and the way that Hatano has a unique ability to sense that, or at least some part of it. When Mob and Hatano are cast opposite one another in a BL, Mob's voiceover habit simply goes away for a while. It’s not as if this happens because Mob doesn’t need to worry about flags coming up while he’s filming, because they definitely do. Maybe the show-within-a-show premise is too conceptually complex to accommodate it. Regardless, it is hard to imagine how they could have made it work here.

The absence of Mob’s voiceover affects the tone of this part of the series quite a bit. I found myself wondering what he was thinking at times, in an uncomfortable way, because I was so used to having that spelled out constantly. But it also allows for some other possibilities that aren’t normally present in the show, which I’ll talk more about in a moment.

The show-within-a-show thing has other effects as well. Obviously, it brings Mob into closer proximity to Hatano and causes them to spend a lot of time together. They act out romantic tropes together and Hatano has a few excuses to touch Mob. They also end up chatting in a friendly way between scenes. In those moments, Mob seems sincerely comfortable with Hatano, like they’ve built at least some degree of platonic intimacy. In these ways, it seems like the BL-filming plotline works in favor of Hatano’s relationship with Mob.

But it also works against it. One of the reasons plots like this are appealing is that characters are put in the position of acting out a romance with someone they would like to be involved with in real life, someone they inevitably think is out of their reach in actuality. A kind of “so close yet so far” dynamic is inherent to the concept (even though in a standard romance it invariably turns out that the object of their affections is more within reach than the person realizes).

Hatano experiences the “so close yet so far” thing in spades. At first he mostly just seems to be glad to have a reason to be near Mob. The melancholy feelings his character goes through might hit home more than he’d like, but at least he has plenty of personal experience to draw from for his performance. He does succeed in getting better acquainted with Mob, who never would have casually shared a drink with him before in the way he does after filming. But there’s one moment that occurs during filming that's undeniably excruciating.

You know those “angle kisses” that actors sometimes do in dramas, where a couple is shot with one actor seen from behind and the other’s face partially blocked by their costar’s, so that they appear to be kissing but may not be touching at all? Mob and Hatano do an angle kiss in their show and it’s downright heartbreaking.

At the beginning of the scene, Hatano’s character finally tells Mob’s he has feelings for him. In the process, Hatano gets to look Mob right in the eye and say exactly how he really feels about him. Not that he’s struggled to do so as himself in the past—after all, this is the guy who just ran up to Mob and said “Suki desu” when he saw him for the first time in eight years—but it’s an opportunity regardless. Hatano’s character then gets up to leave as if he’s so certain his feelings aren’t returned that there's no point in waiting for a response, Mob’s character grabs his arm, stops him, and tells him he likes him back. This moment is already bound to be a horrible mixed bag for Hatano. The man he loves is looking into his eyes and saying he has feelings for him, but it’s all for the cameras.

Then Mob tugs on Hatano’s arm and he stumbles closer. Mob moves nearer and holds Hatano by the shoulder as he comes in for the angle kiss and it’s devastating. It’s not just that they aren’t really kissing. It’s way worse than that. When shot from the side, it’s possible to tell just how far apart Mob and Hatano really are, to see how their faces are turned in entirely opposite directions. Hatano doesn’t show a ton of super obvious emotion here—after all, he’s being filmed and he’s supposed to be in character as someone who is having a real first kiss with the object of his affections—but his expression is unmistakeably strained.

That’s the last shot of the BL, so production wraps. Hatano starts giving Mob lovey-dovey looks before they’re even done being presented with their end-of-the-shoot flowers, and Mob starts wincing and looking stressed out. The more serious, less self-consciously reflexive tone of the BL shoot still lingers for a while longer, intermittently. Mob’s voiceover comes back in fits and starts at first, then re-establishes itself near the end of the finale.

There are a few ways to look at the effects of the BL-filming storyline. If you think about it from Hatano’s perspective, by the end of shooting he has grown a bit closer to Mob in some ways and has had a chance to do things with him on camera that Mob wouldn’t do with him in real life. But he’s also undergone some seriously painful instances where the closeness his character has with Mob’s is a sad reminder that Hatano hasn’t achieved, and may never achieve, the same degree of intimacy with Mob. Then, while he’s still processing that whole situation, his attempt to confess again is thwarted when some guy shows up out of nowhere who appears to have some kind of history with Mob (i.e. Kikuchi). When he ends up at such a point after all of his efforts, he might conclude that the whole thing was a net loss.

But if you take a step back and look at the way Hatano functions in the story, there are some signs that it could work in his favor. Basically, during the show-within-a-show portion of the finale, Hatano is put more in the role of a typical BL protagonist than he ever was before. The fact that Mob’s voiceover commentary pauses gives the audience a break from being inside Mob’s head, set up to closely identify with him all the time. It allows our affiliations and sympathies to be more free-floating. Meanwhile, Hatano is in a good position to attract our attention and garner sympathy. His role in the BL parallels his own situation with Mob (there are still differences, but the overall theme of pining for a guy who looks exactly like Mob is pretty strong). As we watch the scenes he and Mob act in, we can’t help but feel for his character and then for Hatano himself as we inevitably recall those parallels. And of course, that angsty angle-kiss scene is the pièce de résistance.

Does it actually matter that Hatano is able to appear more like a relatable BL protagonist to the audience? It’s hard to say. Mob believes that main characters have certain attributes and that they make things happen in his world, including making the people they’re interested in more likely to return their feelings. It’s a little unclear whether it has this sort of effect when we, the audience of Mob’s show, see Hatano more like a protagonist of a BL. But it might. If so, you could argue that experiences like this increase the chances that Hatano will manage to rope Mob into a romance eventually.

If Hatano really is different, does it matter?

So, I've been talking this whole time about what makes Hatano different from other guys who have pursued Mob. There are a few important ways in which he and Kikuchi both stand out from the crowd. Most importantly, both continuously pursue Mob over time and both have had specific experiences with him and notice actual attributes he has instead of liking him for absurdly random reasons and forgetting about him after one attempt to attract his interest. Both Hatano and Kikuchi have an appropriately greater kind of status in Mob’s life as a result of these differences and Mob treats them accordingly.

Hatano also has some distinctions Kikuchi doesn’t. He has a few strategic advantages. He’s bold, he makes moves and then runs away before Mob can respond, and he makes use of the advantages of their age gap. There are also some more important considerations. Hatano has loved Mob longer than anyone else, by a large margin. (It's not as if you can call "dibs" on a person, of course. But it does mean something.) He seems to be at least partially aware of the way Mob breaks the fourth wall and even pulls Mob into his own daydream somehow. We don’t know why these things happen, but one explanation is that he has a particular kind of connection with Mob. His protagonist-like qualities when he films the BL with Mob may also suggest that he has the kind of main character powers that could overcome Mob’s attempts at resistance.

But does this mean that Mob, a character whose entire reason for existence is eluding L with a B, is actually likely to get together with him? Would that be a good thing? Both questions are debateable. Personally, the main thing I want is for Hatano to continue to give Mob a hard time. I want him to really put him through the paces for as long as Mob continues to resist him. And if Mob does ever get caught, then unless another character comes along who is at least as compelling as Hatano and has comparable claims on Mob's affections, I hope Hatano is the one who catches him. If the series ends at a point where the show's creators are able to intentionally write a series finale, I think it's possible that having Mob finally get caught by a worthy opponent could be a good ending. But I hope he continues his fight against the world of BL for at least a good while longer. At least...for three more years.

#zettai bl #zettai bl 3 #zettai bl season 3 #zettai bl 2024 #zettai bl ni naru sekai vs zettai bl ni naritakunai otoko #a man who defies the world of bl #absolute bl #sekoguchi ryo #ryo sekoguchi #inukai atsuhiro #atsuhiro inukai #hatano x mob

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mirai-e-jump · 1 year ago

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Kikai Sentai Zenkaiger: Zenryoku Zenkai Book Kiita Komagine x Ryo Sekoguchi Cross Talk (translations below)

Publication: April 15, 2022

-From, "What's with this guy?" to sworn enemies-

"Although Kaito and Stacey were enemies, it was a relationship where a type of friendship gradually developed, but how did you both feel about your roles?"

Sekoguchi: In the beginning, when it comes to Kaito, you feel like, "What with this guy?" He's a completely different person from Stacey, so he couldn't accept him. That's why I felt that he wasn't good around Kaito, and the more he met him, the more he felt against Kaito. If they both weren't interested in each other, they wouldn't have gotten involved with each other. However, they fought each other many times, and there were times where Stacey cared about Kaito, so even though they had different ways of living, I felt that they were attracted towards each other because they had similar cores. I think of them as a comedic version of the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke in "Naruto" (laughs).

Komagine: As Kaito, it wasn't like, "Because it's Stacey" or something like that, he wanted to be friends with everyone, including people and Kikainoids, so I played the role while genuinely wanting to get along with him. Every time they met, Kaito was rejected, but that didn't mean he gave up, and for a year I kept thinking that someday their feelings would reach each other. I didn't waver in that part, and I played the role without abandoning his desire to become friends with Stacey.

"For Kaito, he treats Stacey the same way he treats Juran and the others."

Komagine: That's true. Kaito doesn't really care about appearances or where someone comes from, he just sees them as human…..which not all of them are (laughs), but, he wants to get along with a guy named Stacey, and that's the one thing that never changes.

"He really never got discouraged, huh?"

Sekoguchi: He's really strong mentally (laughs).

"As for Stacey, he's annoyed by the fact that Kaito keeps approaching him, but isn't it more accurate to say that he's someone you can't help but face?"

Sekoguchi: Stacey isn't interested in other people to begin with. However, the first time he met a type of person like Kaito, he stuck with him somewhere in his heart. I don't think even Stacey himself understands how to express the feelings that were created by him. So, I think the reason he has to defeat Kaito is because there's a part of him that's worrisome to Stacey. There's also Zox and the others, but he only thinks of them as troublesome or an annoyance. However, he has to face Kaito, so the way he looks at him is completely different from the way he looks at the other members.

Komagine: This is going to be abit more focused on Kaito, but throughout the year, Kaito seems to have everything, but he doesn't have his parents, and Juran and the other Kikainoids also have lonely pasts because their families are missing. Because of these pasts, Kaito's trying to do his best, so I wonder if he felt the same thing as the Kikainoids, and reached out to Juran and the others. At first, I played the role with straightforward feelings, but Kaito's old friends don't really make an appearance, and there was a side of him that tried to force himself to do his best, which I thought was normal for a boy his age. That might also be why he decided to reach out to Stacey, who was all alone.

"Even though the tone is usually lighthearted, for episodes involving Kaito's parents, the heavy parts are hidden and revealed at crucial moments."

Komagine: This show has the perfect balance of funny and serious.

Sekoguchi: If you don't pay attention, it'll suddenly creep up on you.

Komagine: It's a funny seriousness, or so to say. Like even when Kaito found out his father's true identity (No. 35 Kai!), everyone was saying, "Dia! Dia!" (laughs).

-We learned about each other's personalities through switching places-

"We'd like to ask about each of your performances, but when it comes to the comical aspects, we were impressed by Stacey rushing into the tennis match in No. 29 Kai!."

Sekoguchi: I think that was the first time Stacey acted for someone else. He tried his best to camouflage himself, but it was obvious who he was (laughs).

"When filming scenes like that, do you have to think about how far you want to deviate from your usual character?"

Sekoguchi: I felt that Stacey's character would change once his costume changed, so I played him without changing his inner self at all. It feels like he acted for Yatsude's sake. I think his seriousness is what makes him interesting (laughs).

"Did you enjoy filming it?"

Sekoguchi: I enjoyed it!

Komagine: Since we always do something like that, we're always like, "Here comes the next one!" But in this episode, Ryo-kun was dressed up as Stacey in the form of a tennis player, which was even more refreshing and interesting than usual. Another one, is that he also became a teacher at the school! (No. 33 Kai!).

Sekoguchi: It was because of that World's power (laughs). I was also on the side of the viewers the whole time, so I was able to enjoy it. I felt like I was getting caught up in that position. In No. 32 Kai!, I can't help but think that the two of them swapping places due to Inverted World's power was comical, but also an important episode in the sense that the two of them confirmed things about their respective positions.

Komagine: Since Ryo-kun and I were switching roles, we had alot of discussions with Director (Kyohei) Yamaguchi while reading the script, which we hadn't done since the beginning of filming. We always see each other on set and in the finished footage, so we know each other, but when it comes to acting, it's a different story. Only Ryo-kun understands the details of Stacey, and only I understand the details of Kaito. I felt that there were alot of things that I learned for the first time because we switched roles.

"Like what specifically?"

Komagine: When I'm Kaito, my emotions go from 0 to 100 all at once. It feels like I unknowingly do things as Kaito that I normally wouldn't do. It's done completely unconsciously, so when I looked at Ryo-kun's Kaito, I realized, "So this is how he looks, huh!" We also studied standing posture together, and we learned alot from looking at it objectively.

"What does Sekoguchi-san think?"

Sekoguchi: I felt that Kaito's much more sensitive to various things happening in front of his eyes than we see in the footage or on the set. He looks simple but is complex, looking like a perfectly straight tree with fine branches growing from it. It was a great discovery to find out that our main character has a sensitive side to him that requires constant attention.

Komagine: Speaking of which, I also thought that Stacey would've been fine if he just spoke in a smooth voice and without hesitation, but he's totally different from me in terms of looks, and even when he did the movements that Ryo-kun did, he doesn't look like me, so I wondered what would be the best way to go about it. Kaito faces his opponents head on, but Stacey turns his head the other way. However, if someone's talking to you, you reflexively turn in that person's direction. Ryo-kun doesn't do that…..but, sometimes I wanted to turn, so it was very difficult to get the hang of it (laughs).

Sekoguchi: Also, there were our voices. We each did the actual voicing during the dubbing, but on set, the voices and movements had to be linked. The performance of Kaito, who raises his "voltage" all at once, was the complete opposite of Stacey's, so we had to rewatch past episodes multiple times while working on it.

"Saying that, was the dubbing also difficult?"

Komagine: It was difficult! We had to match the movements of the other's mouth, and I think Ryo-kun felt this way too, but there were parts of him that I couldn't quite match. Still, the viewers who watched it were satisfied, so I'm really happy about that.

Sekoguchi: I wasn't really sure what to say, but somehow the results turned out alright! (laughs).

Komagine: We cleared it with passing marks (laughs).

"Were you aware of any of the characteristics that the other said they discovered?"

Sekoguchi: I feel like I'm already doing things unconsciously. I've been doing this from the beginning, so by the time it was completely ingrained in my body, I was behaving as if it were normal.

Komagine: Maybe we were thinking about it in the beginning, but at this time we were already very familiar with it, so we weren't really conscious of it at that point.

"Listening to you talk about it, it seems like while the swap was fun, it was also a very difficult challenge."

Komagine: It's not just limited to that episode, but even if you think, "It made the cut, so I did a good job," isn't that just a self evaluation? We're doing this so that everyone can see something good, so we can only feel at ease after hearing everyone's reviews. We have to constantly check with all the viewers feedback. Even if I think I did good, if there's a discrepancy in the viewers comments, it's just a difference in my own judgment, so I have to adjust and correct it. I'm definitely nervous until the broadcast date. Especially since I also played the role of Stacey being swapped.

-Stacey welcomes change with friends-

"The development of working with Hakaizer is a turning point for Stacey, and in No. 34 Kai!, the sight of Kaito looking happy saying, "You're working with Hakaizer, right?!" was also memorable."

Komagine: Kaito originally thought that Stacey was all alone, but when he switched places with him, he found out that he was being oppressed at Tojitendo, which convinced Kaito that Stacey was completely alone. When Stacey brought along a comrade for the first time, it made Kaito really happy.

Sekoguchi: At first, Stacey wasn't interested in friends or anything like that, and he was a character who didn't trust people to begin with. However, when switching places, he realized how important human connections are and the things that can come from them. Then, in No. 34 Kai!, when he was told by Kaito, "Isn't it much better to win a whole lot by working together with some friends?," up until then, he couldn't accept it, but he decided to give it a try…..I think that's how he felt.

"Later, in No. 38 Kai! in which Bon World's ability brings him face to face with his mother, Lise, when he's attacked, he's shocked and thinks, "Is the same thing happening to Hakaizer and Goshikida Kaito?……" and we wonder if that was the catalyst for the change."

Sekoguchi: I don't think he would've been able to realize it on his own, but as he interacted with more and more people, he came to learn alot of things, and it may have been because he was attacked by his mother that helped him look at his own actions objectively. At first, he started out wanting to beat and surpass his father, but he came to realize how pathetic he was for acting the same way.

"What did you think of Stacey's development at that time?"

Komagine: Kaito wanted him to be happy, that goes without saying, but he also cared about him and wanted to save him. That's why he went to help him with Hakaizer at that time. Of course, Kaito wanted to become friends even towards the end, but I thought, "What should I do to make Stacey the happiest?"

"While having to win the battle against Tojitendo, Kaito also has to worry about his parents and Stacey, so he's quite busy."

Komagine: I feel that way too. However, he's not the type to try to figure out things. He acts on instinct and intuition, so he just does whatever he wants to do. In No. 5 Kai!, when he says, "Instead of mom and dad, I should've focused on saving everyone by taking down Sushi World," at that moment, Juran intervenes with, "Of course it's important to take care of your own business." Because of that episode, if we don't keep his stance of, "Always ready to go all out for anything!" Kaito's character will be lost. I didn't over think that part, and just went with what was written in the script.

-The difficulties of playing God-

"Towards the very end, there was a twist in which Stacey was possessed by God. As the climax approached, you had to make a big change in performance."

Sekoguchi: It was challenging. Until I read the script, I had no idea what Gege's purpose was, so when I finally found out I was like, "Really?!" (laughs). I felt that I had to break down or forget about Stacey once the mysterious guy entered him, and his character was completely different from my usual way of speaking and facial expressions.

"When your body was being taken over, "(Sweetly)" was written in the dialogue part of the script."

Sekoguchi: I was like, "What do they mean by (sweetly)"?! (laughs). So, I started thinking about whether God has a gender in the first place. I didn't want God to have a gender, so I was conscious of the neutrality of the image, where it's hard to tell whether they're male or female. In addition to God's composure…..I thought that it had to come from within, but that part of the performance was difficult.

"How was it working with Stacey, who was in a different state?"

Komagine: Hmmm…..He’s clearly different. He made me think, "Even if it's not me, you'll notice!" (laughs). But, it was really cool to see Kaito go to God and say, "Is Stacey even fine with this?!" I was like, "That's it!" it's just like Kaito to make a point like that.

Sekoguchi: He says the most straightforward things at any moment (laughs).

"We were surprised to hear him say lines, "I'll become your friend" while he was being controlled."

Sekoguchi: I didn't say it in the original state of Stacey, so it was beyond my own image. I'm alittle sad about it (laughs).

"God leaves Stacey's body after No. 46 Kai! Then, a series of exchanges with Kaito saying, "I mean, Stacey, you're really nice," and Stacey replying, "Stop that!" was also memorable."

Komagine: For the first time, Stacey complained to Kaito with, "I'm tired…." so my feelings when acting were, "I have to do something about this!" Still, I thought the viewers would be nervous to see Stacey leave, and as Kaito, I felt that Stacey's state of mind was wavering between the Zenkaigers and the position he held up until now. There was a feeling of suspense about what was going to happen in the next few episodes. I'm sure that even when he's with everyone else, Kaito is thinking about Stacey, and Stacey is thinking about Kaito. But, the parts that didn't work well together kept coming up, and I kept thinking, "What's going to happen in the end?!"

Sekoguchi: It started with the scene where he looks sad as he watches the Zenkaigers take back Hakaizer. Not only is his only comrade gone, he now has no place to return at Tojitendo. He had to meet Kaito in such a situation where he's lost everything, so at that time, Stacey was in a very weak state of mind. He was already past his limits.

"It was quite a painful development to watch."

Sekoguchi: If I'm allowed to say it, he's simply not good at living…..(laughs). Of course there are many things that make me feel sorry for Stacey as well, but it's definitely due to his own actions up until now. It's no one's fault but his own, and if he doesn't change, nothing will change. In No. 46 Kai!, he's on the verge of understanding his interactions with Kaito. Up until then, I think there was always a part of him that was blaming his surroundings or the people around him.

Komagine: Kaito wanted to help his father, and he achieved that goal, but the fact that he took Stacey's comrade away has always remained with him. In regards to that, when his father told him in No. 41 Kai!, "If you don't want to leave Stacey alone, you need to do something Kaito," I felt that his resolve to save Stacey was strengthened once again.

"Speaking of, when it comes to the Goshikida family, Yatsude is obviously an essential part of Stacey's life, isn't she?"

Sekoguchi: She really saved him. The scene at Colorful where Stacey confides everything to Yatsude was really great.

Komagine: I'm really glad that Yacchan is played by (Sakakibara) Ikue-san. In the scene where Stacey confides in her, there was a part where she stood tall and firm, so as Kaito, I was proud of Ikue-san for taking it seriously. The way she carried herself on the set was wonderful, and I thought I should learn many things from the way Ikue-san makes everyone on the set smile.

Sekoguchi: Stacey 's grateful to the Goshikida family because they gave him so many things. He received love from Yatsude, the father taught him camaraderie and bonds, the mother gave him her blood, and in the end, Kaito taught him friendship. Stacey receives everything that's important to him from the Goshikida family.

Komagine: Since he has the mother's blood in him, he and Kaito might actually be brothers (laughs).

-The two who have finally became friends-

"We were moved by the sight of him finally rushing over to Kaito after his admission to Yatsude in No. 47 Kai!."

Komagine: Up until then, if I grabbed him by the shoulder, he'd shake me off, but this time I was happy because we were able to say things like, "Let's go back together to Colorful," and "That's the plan." I felt like this was the first time someone accepted me, so it was like I was both myself and Kaito! It's hard to imagine Zox and Stacey teaming up to fight together (laughs). That's part was cool too, and I could see the passion these two have, so from No. 47 Kai! to Final Kai! it's really interesting!

"What was it like playing the role of Stacey, who was finally forgiven?"

Sekoguchi: Stacey wasn't thinking about anything in particular at that time, but he was able to become more honest, or rather, he regained his sense of identity. I had the scene with Yatsude-san before that, and based on that scene, he felt embarrassed, but I'm glad he was able to be honest with himself…..I played the role with that kind of nuance. He felt relieved when he saw Kaito, and couldn't help but laugh when Vroon said, "I'm also a former Tojitendo," and it was a moment where I could see the happiness of everyone fighting together.

Komagine: Then there's the final episode, where Kaito has to fight alone in the spirit world, but he realizes that he's not fighting alone, which gives him confidence. I think this also embodies the best part of Super Sentai, where they fight as a team, and the fact that it ends with rock paper scissors is typical of Zenkaiger (laughs). Since the ending seems like a continuation, I can also imagine how each of us will go on our own journeys and become happy, so I'm glad things didn't end with Sushi World! (laughs).

Sekoguchi: The real thrill of Super Sentai was felt towards the end. Each of them had their own problems and were born in different environments, but Stacey, for example, could achieve his goal of defeating Barashitara not alone, but with his friends and comrades. It made me think once again that Zenkaiger is a show filled with such qualities.

-Reflections on the days of our strange friendship-

"At first, where did you think the relationship between the two of them would end up?"

Sekoguchi: I was thinking of all kinds of possibilities, but I stopped thinking about them halfway through and just hoped that the story would progress well. And then God appeared! Whether they're defeated or become friends, each has its own merits.

Komagine: I truly thought that Stacey was going to be defeated. He helped Kaito when they were fighting Barashitara, and at the end, he fought with everyone else as Stacaesar, but they ended up fighting each other. It made it seem like he'd say," I wish I had joined you sooner…..please give my regards to Yatsude….." *whoosh* (disappears).

Sekoguchi: I predicted something like a good ending would happen for "the villain" (laughs).

"It's understood that you all sometimes predicted what was going to happen next."

Komagine: We all did it. I had suggested to the staff that Final Kai World should appear and that it ends with a bang, but they rejected it. "Today is the final episode of Zenkaiger, Final Kai!" and then it would abruptly end…..

Sekoguchi: Who would be satisfied with that?! (everyone laughs). Well, it definitely fits with Zenkaiger (laughs).

Komagine: But, after filming the final episode I thought, "I'm glad it didn't happen!"

"Has your impressions of each other changed up to this point?"

Sekoguchi: They've changed. At first, I heard that he was shy, but now I don't find that to be the case at all.

Komagine: Ryo-kun's appearance is very cute, so I imagined him to have a selfish personality. I thought he was aesthetically pleasing and very beautiful….However, his personality is that of an old mans! (laughs).

Sekoguchi: That's for sure (said straightforwardly).

Komagine: He's so carefree, that he'll even take his clothes off when eating! In a good way, I felt that he wasn't high class or too distant. So I felt that we didn't have to worry about things, and in that way, I felt close to him. It's completely different from my first impression of him when we first met, that's why Ryo-kun feels younger than me even though he's older than me, and I can talk to him freely.

"During filming, there was no particular reason for you not to speak to each other just because your roles were that of enemies."

Komagine: There were none at all (laughs). When the cameras are rolling, I think Zenkaiger is a show where everyone does whatever they want to do in an interesting way, so I usually interacted with Ryo-kun without thinking of him as an enemy or an ally.

"Moving away from the main story, we saw the third part of the Unmasked Warrior series at G Rosso. We thought the part during the play where Kaito encourages Stacey's competitive nature and dances, as well as the teasing relationship between the two of them was adorable."

Komagine: You won't see that in the main story (laughs).

Sekoguchi: Stacey was acting alittle different than usual, so it was difficult!

Komagine: Well, it had a nice feel to it, even if it deviated abit from the regular TV version.

"Was it difficult to perform on stage?"

Komagine: When Stacey says, "Next time we meet, we'll be enemies, so be prepared," and tries to leave, Kaito says, "Why don't we go home dancing?" and Stacey was like, "Why should I…?" But in that scene, they start dancing, and the line shows that Stacey took what Kaito said seriously and as a challenge. I was honestly just trying to say that we should dance (laughs). So when Stacey said, "Oh no!" I was like, "Eh? Eh?"

Sekoguchi: It was difficult to get the timing down for "Oh no!" It's because the lines were different every time.

"The third part is also available on DVD, so we hope everyone will take this opportunity to watch it again (laughs). Could you tell us about some highlights of the fourth part?"

Komagine: We're more involved in it than in the third part, and there's action scenes, so I feel like it's more Zenkaiger like. Some highlights include seeing the transformations of the 5 Zenkaigers, as well as the secret transformation of Flint. Also, Gaon, played by Tsuta (Tsutamune Masato-san), will also appear.

"Wouldn't it be better if it was already played by the actors themselves?"

Komagine: That's true. The person who had been playing Gaon up until then saw Tsuta-san during rehearsal and said, "Ah, the real guy…" and even though he's the same Suit Actor, I thought it was different. It's very reassuring to have Tsuta-san in the fourth part, and it's very easy to work with him. We'll be performing for a while, so I hope you'll enjoy watching it.

Sekoguchi: The overall atmosphere of the fourth part is "cute" (laughs).

Komagine: The relationships in the stage play change before and after the final episode, so I hope you'll enjoy that as well!

"How do you feel looking back at the relationship between the two of you?"

Sekoguchi: Rather than the bond between Kaito and Stacey being formed in the traditional Super Sentai style, they gradually became more aware of each other from a distance, and I thought it was wonderful that in the end, although we didn't express it in words, our hearts were firmly connected. I was thinking about this myself while playing Stacey, but I like the atmosphere that seems to exist between the lines of the story, which isn't captured on film, as their hearts move through the process of becoming friends.

Komagine: Looking back on Zenkaiger, I had alot of fun, and it was so fulfilling that I thought, "There's no better place to be on set than this, huh?" Ryo-kun joined us later, so I wonder if I could've supported him better since I was there from the beginning. But, I was really impressed by the way he played Stacey, to the point where he became a popular character. I'm glad that the actors I was able to work with this time were Acchan (Mashiko Atsuki), Hina-chan (Mori Hinami), and of course Ryo-kun. The popularity of Zenkaiger is largely due to Stacey, so I'm grateful for that as well! (laughs).

Sekoguchi: No, no, don't be ridiculous! It's all thanks to everyone's power in Zenkaiger that it's as popular as it is now!

Komagine: (laughs).

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