#say what you will about karen traviss (she deserves most of it)

[syn0vial]

some snapshots of boba fett being a socially anxious mess in legacy of the force

facing some of the galaxy's most ruthless and hardened killers in combat? no problem 👌 having a heartfelt conversation in a room with friends and family? RUN!! 🏃🏃

"am i allowed to call my best friend by his first name when we're at his house? if i get the answer wrong, it is equivalent to me stepping on a landmine and exploding btw"

the thought of having anything like a family or social circle is terrifying to him. loneliness is a much more familiar and thus comfortable experience.

this is a sad one. trying to interact with other people in a way that isn't predicated on violence (whether for or to them) feels so alien and daunting to fett that he feels like he's incapable of it. (it's also one of the many moments in which fett is an unreliable narrator of his own character development bc what do you think you've been doing for the past three books, idiot)

and finally, one of the (several) moments in the series that implies he usually relies on beviin and/or medrit to handle daunting social interactions for him :`) he's very lucky to have them!

[starbeltconstellation]

No matter how I look at it, I get the feeling that Lesyle Headland is racist against Asians. Seeing all those characters portrayed by Asian people get mistreated horribly makes me very uncomfortable because I'm Asian myself, and I've been through that multiple times during my life. I'm not the only one who thinks that. I saw there are a couple of other people who think that Lesyle Headland is against Asians too. Kathleen Kennedy keeps pointing out the racism in the fandom, yet she ignores the racism that she HERSELF and her co-workers are doing, and that includes Lesyle Headland! Why did Star Wars now have to be in the hands of a Western company where they keep mistreating Asian characters and Asian people??? Now, with what happened in Sol in the finale, the SW fandom is going to be even more racist and spout more BS against Asians now. I'm tired af of all the hatred towards my people! Both Asians and the Jedi deserve better!!!

Hello, dear anon. ❤️

Firstly, I just want to DEEPLY apologize for the long wait in my response. 😅💔😖 I try not to get behind on asks, but life has been crazy for me at the moment, and especially with longer asks like yours, I really want to take my time and give a good and in depth response.

And yesssss! 👏👏 Speak your truth, dear anon! 😖✊

I will be honest and say that my view—while I HEAVILY dislike LH’s writing morals and style (and just the whole concept of The Acolyte show in general being some ‘girl power fantasy’ for women when the Dark Side is anything but that and is nothing but weighted chains tying you to the ocean floor to drown)—was more charitable at first where I know in my SOUL if I ever met this woman that we probably would not be able to get along if we talked about SW fandom lore too much. And I can accept that! 😂

Not everyone will like or agree with each other. At least she’s not as bad as Karen Traviss, because dear GOD I have recently just learned about the petty hatred that woman has towards the Jedi (with a WORD FOR WORD line of a character in her books EXPLICITLY saying the Jedi Order deserved their genocide! 🤢), and I KNOWWW I would dislike that woman if I met her on the street. I can acknowledge the incredible feat she accomplished with developing Mando’a, while still maintaining that she seems like a very mean spirited person to be around), and it is literally nauseating in the most highly disgusting and disturbing way.

KT is basically a rapid and foaming at the mouth Jedi anti who believes they “got what was coming to them.🤢🥶” LH on the other hand (at least in HER head), views herself as Jedi CRITICAL. And while there is a little bit of a difference there, it’s not as stark a line as fans would try to convince us pro Jedi’s to believe.

There are plenty of fair criticisms about the Jedi that I can acknowledge: the Shimi thing, for one, which is I think just a bad symptom of GL’s writing being more “metaphorical” than literal. Shimi HAS to stay on Tatooine because Anakin eventually HAS to murder the Tuskens in cold blood so GL can tell the story he wants to tell of how Anakin can’t let go, and so the Jedi are never given the opportunity to do what I truly BELIEVE they would’ve done, which is go back and free her, at least for the peace of mind of one of their newest initiate. The plot literally physically bars them from doing so.

And even THIS is not without its flaws, because they would ONLY have wiggle room to free Shimi after the heat of TPM problems had died down where they had time to do so… while walking past/avoiding eye contact with all of Shimi’s slave neighbors, because as specified before—The Jedi have no jurisdiction in the Outer Rim, and you bet your ass if they freed all those slaves and started a war with the Hutts with their little 10,000 strong army, the Republic would take one look and go “Lol, good luck with that,” and not help them at all, which would be basically suicide for the Order to try and accomplish on abolishment of slavery on the Outer Rim all on their own in the TRILLIONS of people in the galaxy. They do not have the MAN POWER for that. Not without the Senate army/clones.

People want the Jedi to do something about it? Get on the Senate’s ass about it then—the REAL people who are responsible for all of the shit going wrong in the Outer Rim while they line their pockets and kiss up to clueless galactic citizens for votes come election time. THEY are the ones that should be responsible for the problems of an ENTIRE galaxy—not a small little minority group (which I’ve already come to realize that the Jedi are. They are a culture/religion/family, and 10,000 is but a drop in the ocean of the galaxy. They are so small in the grand scheme of things that it’s SCARY when considering how easy it was for Palpatine to lead them to almost total annihilation) that try and try and TRY as hard as they can, which is apparently somehow NEVER enough, for the galactic citizens AND the SW fandom itself.

And why is that? Why is it so HARD for SW fandom to relate to them? Why does LH (who I’m sure in her head BELIEVES she’s as progressive as they come) view the Jedi as some type of “space cops” who are “oppressing 🙄” the Sith as a representation of her religious trauma that she is clearly projecting onto them as something completely separate than what the Jedi Culture actually is? Why does she view them as “emotionally repressed” and “almost catholic-like”, and views the fucking SITH (literal SPACE NAZIS 😭🤦‍♀️) as a representation for her persecution as a gay woman?

It’s because—just like MOST SW fans in the US—she cannot fathom a culture outside of the lens of western philosophy. In her mind, the Jedi aren’t a “real 🙄🤢” family. In HER mind, the Jedi aren’t necessarily evil, but she still believes those “poor little culty Jedi 😔💔🙄” didn’t see they were ‘sewing their own destruction’. (Which is blaming them. It’s BLAMING the victims of genocide, and it’s to this day the most disgusting thing I will always remember about the show’s “your actions will cause the destruction of every Jedi in the galaxy” quote that made Twitter go wild with genocide apologia galore).

Some lovely examples! 😁🙃🙃

Disgusting Example 1:

Disgusting Example 2:

Disgusting Example 3:

Disgusting Example 4: REALLY YIKES. 🥶

Disgusting Example 5: Ahhh, would you look at that? We’ve made it into good ol’ ✨dehumanization✨. 🙃🙃🤢

ALL of those examples are not a small portion of the fandom. They are the MAJORITY. This is what the MAJORITY of the fandom truly deep in their hearts believe about the Jedi and their culture and way of life, even if they won’t word it as bluntly as those commenters did out loud.

THIS is what I believe LH’s beliefs regarding the Jedi’s non-western culture is like. She thinks she’s being “fair”, because hey! I made you like Jecki and Yord, didn’t I? 😘😘😘

… And then mere episodes later, she throws the rug out from under you in having Quimir (who she has ADMITTED in interviews is basically her mouthpiece for her own personal thoughts on SW) dehumanize not just Jecki and Yord by saying they were “incapable of going deeper to care about Osha like she deserves 🤢🙄🥶”, but also just by dehumanizing the Jedi in general. It becomes CLEAR in the final episodes that everything was meant to lead up to Osha and Quimir meeting (because they’re clearly Reylo 2.0, and this was LH’s way of getting to smash her Barbie dolls together), which basically gives a feeling of hollowness to the entire backdrop of the show—because the rest of the characters ARE a backdrop to them. She FAKES THE AUDIENCE OUT by pretending to humanize Sol as someone repentant, teasing the possibility of him and Osha being able to talk things out, before swiftly turning him into a one-dimensional caricature of himself who seems to have done a complete 180 on his remorse, only for the sheer purpose of him and Osha not being able to have a conversation. You may say, “Oh, but the show is an unreliable narrator! 🤪🤪🤪”

Except… no, it’s really not. 😭🤦‍♀️ Especially with the way LH spells out that she AGREES with Quimir’s philosophy, she AGREES with that asshole Senator treating the Jedi like shit who are “corrupt/emotionally repressed space monks”, she AGREES with Oshamir fans’s interpretations that the finale of turning to the Dark Side is a TRIUMPH for Osha instead of a heartbreaking moment that will lead to only ruin.

And it’s because—just like most western fans—she just doesn’t even WANT or CARE to understand the eastern philosophy of the Jedi’s culture, and instead projects her feelings from no doubt sympathetic trauma onto something that has no true basis for it. She views something that doesn’t have the “passion” of the Sith’s ‘love 🙄’ as lesser than. She doesn’t really view them as a family, because she only believes in a more standard family dynamic, and instead views them as an institution that “brought everything on themselves. 🥶”

And… honestly? I think you’re basically RIGHT, anon. I don’t think it’s truly this big CONSCIOUS thing. I don’t think she wrote out Sol’s death for the sheer purpose of “Muah-ha-ha”-ing over Asian fans losing some of the honestly most MEMORABLE and AMAZING representation they’ve had in YEARS in the very franchise that borrows from their own culture and philosophy. But I DO think she doesn’t view it as something worth considering. Oshamir is where her mind was at at the end of the day (because ROMANTIC love is something she clearly views as the most important and powerful thing, because OSHAMIR is who stand together at the end. Not Osha or her sister), and I think any other storyline factors became all but insignificant to her in the grand scheme of things. It was easy to kill all of the Jedi characters, because the “new fave” was here—the Sith. And to be fair, his hotness drew in a lot of buzz! But the cancellation and the renew the series petition signatures I think show the gap in how many people were truly interested going forward that weren’t reylo 2.0 fans. Yeah, a lot of people are into villains. But even MORE people want to root for their heros. The Jedi are supposed to be the heroes of SW, and such a show PURPOSELY and VINDICTIVELY portraying them in the worst way possible (the EMPATHETIC SPACE MONKS covered up a massacre? REALLY? 😭🤦‍♀️) throws more people off than LH would like to believe.

The way she killed Sol… it was brutal. And in interviews, she says some bullshit like Sol was “taking away Osha’s agency” by forgiving her and telling her it was okay. Because the portrayal of the Jedi in this show isn’t just “showing their flaws! 🤪🤪🤪” It is purposely writing them in a way that they’ve NEVER been shown to act on screen before—all to make the villain sympathetic, because LH clearly has adopted the thinking (much as radical Anakin fans have), that because someone has become a villain, then SOMEONE must’ve forced their hand. But that’s not how all true three dimensional characters WORK. Yes, there are tragic characters whose circumstances make things worse, but the idea that a villain is always “misunderstood” creates the narrative that the HERO is somehow in the wrong. LH does this because both Osha and Quimir are her new OCs. She makes the Jedi almost completely OOC and portrays them as oppressive to JUSTIFY Quimir and Osha’s actions. Because THIS is what The Acolyte was about: giving Reylo 2.0 a happy ending.

There has been criticism from fans that Jecki and Yord were killed too early which only gave fans an “awww ☹️💔” feeling, because they barely had the chance to even solidify into real characters to make the audience sob and cry at their loss. And I would argue this thinking is right. Because if you look CLOSELY at the background, you can see how it all was just a hollow backdrop for LH’s “dark romance” idea. And I’m not saying such an idea was BAD—I’m saying it wasn’t originally marketed that way. Sol is marketed as the main character (representing Asians in a fantastic way), and then she brutally kills him off, because he was never REALLY important to LH’s story. None of the Jedi were. She was always more interested in the Sith. And so, she tries to make the Sith the “oppressed 🙃🙄”. And I would argue she fails at this with the larger audience, even if loud fans of reylo are chanting about it on tumblr and twitter. The viewership is lower than expected for the show (and part of that is because of the horrible racism and campaign against it from SW dudebros). But honestly, I think a part of it is just… what’s left? Everyone except Osha and Quimir are dead. Sol was brutally murdered on his knees (one of the best Asian representation I’ve seen in a while in SW) like he was nothing but garbage. The Jedi lost, and apparently LH has also character assassinated Vernestra by what she does in the finale, if the character’s fans huffing on tumblr are anything to go by (which is TOTALLY within their right to feel disappointed and angry over an aroace character being treated by the narrative like she and the culture she believes in have ‘no emotion or empathy’ 🥶🤢. There’s that good ol’ ✨dehumanization✨ kicking in again, huh?)

THIS is what SW has apparently decayed into. Into being vindictive and petty and blaming victims for their own persecution and pain. It’s a sign of a self involved culture, which is what the USA/the west is, I’ll admit. Other countries are collectivist. We are individualists. (ie; “I got mine.”) People ENJOY these tales of flipping everything around to blame the heroes and not the villains, because they SEE themselves in villains like Anakin or Kylo Ren or Osha and Quimir. And look—there’s nothing wrong with seeing yourself in a villain and even with sympathizing with them! Anakin’s past as a slave no doubt makes him very much deserving of empathy in that regard.

But the problem is—since they SEE themselves in the villain—then they don’t want the villain to be in the wrong (ie; Anakin). Because if the VILLAIN is in the wrong, then they TOO can also be in the wrong, and a lot of people don’t like to grapple with that. I have seen a recent post going around from someone I was pretty disappointed with that switched sides from pro jedi into anti jedi territory so vindictively and quickly (do NOT attack this person if you know who I’m talking about. I am bringing this up for the sheer purpose of meta. Not to pettily call them out or something), who was responding to an ask where the asker was thanking this person in basically defending Anakin by excusing his actions. The anon said they related heavily to Anakin, and apparently hated recent posts going around which call Anakin out on his behavior, because the anon and this person both believe that the criticism is meant to be vindictive and cruel, when that is rarely the case.

This is where the “Anakin was bullied by The Council/Mace/Obi-Wan” excuses come in. Because Obi-Wan gently offers CONSTRUCTIVE criticism at times, he is somehow viewed as someone who never truly respected or understood Anakin as a person. Because the Council didn’t worship the ground Anakin walked on and didn’t just let him get away with things without a sometimes gentle/firm reprimand, they are somehow viewed as people who have been out to get Anakin and ‘didn’t trust him’ since he was a child. Because Mace butted heads with Anakin at times because they had different opinions on how to be a good Jedi and in their battle strategies on the war, Mace is somehow the most petty and worst man alive who has been “jealous” of Anakin his whole life.

All of these above excuses—in the most nicest way I can state possible��sound like the platitudes that children tell themselves against parents who they’re angry at. This is WHY Anakin went to Palpatine; because Palpatine always told him “Yes.”

And believe it or not?

Sometimes being told “no” isn’t the end of the world or means people hate you.

Sometimes you’re a good person who made a mistake, and just need to be called out to get back on the right track.

Accountability.

LH apparently believes in none of this for her characters. The backstory crafted for Osha and Quirmir clearly shows that. It’s meant to ABSOLVE them.

Funny how the JEDI (the ones based off of Asian inspired culture in certain areas) aren’t given the same courtesy, huh? 🙃🙃

This is why the pro jedi fanfic I’m writing is free therapy. Loooool. 😂❤️

In conclusion—yessss, I think you’re pretty on the mark in a certain type of way, anon, even if we both have a little bit of a charitable gap for LH between the two of us.

I apologize for the late reply again! 😭❤️❤️❤️❤️ I hope the wait was worth it!

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To any readers that stumble across this and are curious enough to check out my fic:

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Tags:

@ensomnia

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[mrbubblyurchin]

My thoughts on Imperial Commando and Republic Commando as a whole

RC

So, I started and finished Imperial Commando on an eight hour plane ride last night. This means I am done with the series overall and this will be me going over it and the characters. But let’s discuss my thoughts on this book first

Needless to say, I was disappointed. It’s not that it was bad or anything, it just wasn’t as good as Order 66 in my opinion, and, of course, even though it’s the last book of the series, the series was left incomplete, leaving me a bit disappointed in the end.

The author obviously planned on writing more Republic Commando books after this one, with how the Jusik and Arla plot line was set up, how the age reversing was going, and how Darman planned to kill the Jedi, but obviously, the sequel was never made, and thus, the overall story feels incomplete. But, enough about that. Let’s talk about RC as a whole.

Oh, and I’ll be completely omitting Karen Traviss from this conversation. She as a person has nothing to do with the plot or characters, which are the things I will be judging today. If you have a problem with me talking about the actual book and not ranting about the author who wrote it, then too bad. 

Let’s start off at the beginning. With Omega. Omega Squad was definitely a pleasant surprise for me. I enjoyed each of their characters and liked how most of them found peace in the end. That being said, I do have some notes.

The biggest is Atin. I feel like after Triple Zero he kind of fell into the background besides when he married Laseema in Order 66. (And his relationship with her fell into the background as well) And he felt practically invisible in Imperial Commando. And I get why Niner and Dar were more in focus for that story, but it would’ve been nice to see some Atin. Also, he’s he only OG Omega member who’s POV we never got to see. 

Next up, Niner. Niner got two POV’s in the series, in both the first and last books. And those books were where I enjoyed him the best. Niner was a solid leader for the squad, and was loyal to them through and through, especially in his friendship with Darman. He didn’t fade as much as Atin, but I still wish he had been a little more prevalent throughout the series.

Then we have Fi. Fi is my favorite from the squad still, and I love seeing him whenever he appears. His one liners are great, and to be honest, he’s kind of the opposite of Niner here. He was very prevalent for books 2-4, but fell into the background in the first and last book. He still appeared more than Atin in book 5, but I barely recall even seeing Parja. (Which was sad cuz I loved the two of them together)

The last of the OG Omega, Darman. Dar is definitely a strong character, and he has a very heavy theme of being used, manipulated, and lied to throughout the books. By the Kaminoans, the Jedi, and even Kal, Etain, and Niner at times! His mental resolve to protect Kad at all costs is what is barely keeping him together after Etain died, and while he does resolve to hunt Jedi at the end of the book, it’s a nice full circle moment to see that while Darman thought his one true purpose at the beginning of the series was to be a soldier, he now sees he was destined for a greater one all along. Being a father. 

Next let’s move on to Ordo, Corr, the Jedi, and Mandos. We got a LOT to cover here.

Ordo- Ordo is definitely one of my favorites. Him and Besany are cute and great and I love both of them. I like all the moments he gets throughout the series. However, I do think he was focused on a little too heavily. While I do wish some of the other Nulls like Jaing, Prudii, or Kom’rk had been given some time to shine, I still loved Ordo and I think he’s great. (That being said, I will be omitting the rest of the Nulls because I really only know enough to talk about Mereel and A’den for a couple sentences)

Corr- A really sarcastic, witty, and funny guy that did not deserve what he got. Losing both of his hands was tragic, but, with lost flesh, he gained a new family in Clan Skirata. He was a nice addition to Omega after Fi had to leave, and I liked him a lot. (He and Jilka were pretty cute in book 5)

Etain- So… Etain. I like her, I really do. But sometimes, there are some choices that I cannot get behind. (Like how she purposefully went behind Dar’s back to get pregnant in Triple Zero) But even still, she is a good person, and she just wanted to be a good mother to Kad and live a happy life with Darman, and she didn’t deserve to meet the end she got.

Bardan- An all around solid character. I liked his development from bright eyed Padawan to rugged ex Jedi Mandalorian, and I think his sense of responsibility to Clan Skirata and also to Kad is very important. He made sure to put others before himself no matter the consequences, a quality with several others lack. 

Walon- A hardened Mando bounty Hunter with good intentions at heart. (Probably). I mean, he did save Jilka, lend Kal credits, and he also did try to find Sev. He cares. Even if it is in his own twisted way sometimes. (Still, what he did to Atin was brutal)

Besany- Love her. Since the beginning, she was all about standing up for the clones and their rights. She cared about them as people and not as property, and she saw their differences as well, and what made them unique, and she really does love Ordo, and I think the two of them are very sweet.

Kal- Oh boy. Here we go. I know I’m gonna get hate for this. Here I go. Brace yourselves. If you need tissues to cry, grab them. 

I like Kal Skirata.

…

…

…

Okay. I’ll continue. I am not going to say I agree with him on everything, and I’m not going to pretend he is a saint or anything. But I like his character. He cares about his family, and he does make mistakes. Everybody does. The problem is everybody has gotten so used to pointing out Kal’s every mistake that they refuse to acknowledge anything he did right. And guess what? Kal makes mistakes. He’s flawed. He’s not perfect. And that’s the point. Characters are flawed. People are flawed. They aren’t perfect. And neither is Kal. And HE ADMITS THAT IN BOOK 5. In fact, NY ADMITS IT TOO! She acknowledges that Kal taking over the Nulls and not seeing the similarities to the Jedi taking children is arrogant! She acknowledges that! And Kal acknowledges that and his flaws later in the book! Kal is arrogant, yes, but he sees that! He knows it! So before you go around saying how Kal thinks he is some saint god or whatever. He doesn’t. And there is proof of that in the books.

So, uhh, yeah. Overall, I think the Republic Commando series was good. There were some things that definitely could have been improved upon, but I liked it. I liked the story, and I liked the characters, so yeah.

Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk.

[smhalltheurlsaretaken]

Stumbled upon your master list of SW meta you wrote, and enjoyed reading through some of them, especially the ones that examined and defended the jedi order. I point to the jedi order in particular because when you pointed out that the number of jedi in the galaxy are proportionally smaller compared to a planet with a population in the trillions, it reminded me of a bad take regarding the order (which is conflated with the whole "the jedi are actually the bad guys" in SW): that the jedi are eugenicists because their adoption of force sensitive children. This never sat right with me given that the jedi never seemed the type to be concerned with propagating their numbers in some form of "purity" (genetic or force sensitivity wise). Any chance you can gleam into the nitty-gritty of this take's unsavory implications?

OOf, that's an old ask, and that reminds me that I really need to update that masterlist 😅 (and me saying that is an even older draft, oops 😂)

Okay, the idea of the Jedi being *eugenicists* is SO out of left field that I feel like it doesn't even deserve to be really addressed so much as mocked, because words mean things.

To be quite fair, I don't think I've ever seen anybody seriously use that word. (It may very well have happened tho, I just can't remember somebody seriously making the claim and sticking to it.) Even the infamous KT rant (see below) doesn't call them that - the extremely weird and frankly absurd take is that they embody supremacist ideas and that people who are into them believe there is such a thing as an inherently superior person. She does use the word "Nazi" (just wow), but I don't think she was going for the eugenics part, just the run of the mill white supremacy theories. People on both sides of the argument may have misquoted/misinterpreted her on that though.

(Seriously woman, why were you even writing for Star Wars?! YOU DIDN'T EVEN LIKE IT!)

Now, eugenics? (This post is so weird to write, I can't even) ⇊

It is LAUGHABLE to use it in relation to the Jedi Order, because as you accurately put it, the Jedi just aren't interested in... making babies.

Do they force their members to procreate, even artificially? Absolutely not.

Are they seeking to improve the Order by only taking in the healthiest, strongest, most powerful children? No. They were ready to reject Anakin, for one thing.

Are they studying how to arrange reproduction in the rest of the galactic population? No.

Is there a ban on non-Jedi Force sensitives having children of their own? No. Are they forced or even strongly encouraged to have children of their own? No.

Do Jedi control who Force-sensitives are allowed to have children with? No.

Do Jedi test for Force-sensitivity and keep records of it? Yes. But they don't seem to keep genealogies - there's nothing that says the list in the Holocron is a permanent one either - rather, the way it's phrased and the way there's only babies on it, names are probably erased eventually. And the purpose of the list has nothing to do with increasing the occurence of Force-sensitivity.

Are non-Jedi Force sensitives forced by law to give up their kids? No.

Do Jedi automatically take in Force-sensitive children anyway? No. Bardotta and Dathomir are right there and nobody's bothering them.

Is the Order ableist? No. We even see plenty of disabled Jedi and nobody is throwing them out. (Amputees like Anakin and elderly people like Yoda and Tera Sinube, for starters. Also Prosset Dibs, or Tahl in Legends).

The Force isn't even proven to be reliably 'transmissible' from one generation to the next - the Force 'being strong' in particular families may just as easily be for more spiritual reasons depending on how you want to look at it. Because, you know, Star Wars isn't all literal.

IT'S JUST SO DUMB.

NOTHING ABOUT HOW THE ORDER WORKS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THAT WORD MEANS.

(I'm sorry I'm not dissing you for the ask I just don't get how anybody could ever have said that 😂😭)

[thebisexualmandalorian]

Inviting controversy by asking a controversial question which you may feel free to ignore but. Thoughts on Karen Traviss' Star Wars books, from the old EU? I assume you've got Opinions

BOY DO I

I'll probably forget to include everything, but I've gone on an hour long Rant before and I'll do it again lmao

Okay, so the good. There is good in these books and I'll drag it out with teeth and claws if I have to.

I love Kal Skirata. You can crucify me for that if you want to, but as a daddy issues having bitch, I want him to be my dad. He's a wonderfully flawed character, and he owns up to those flaws. He's made mistakes and he's grown and he knows he isn't perfect but by god, he'll try for his boys. He fights tooth and nail to protect them from what he can, and what he can't, he'll go through hell with them (literally, I can't remember the exact wording, but it's said in Hard Contact I believe, that any training he puts his men through, he does it himself first). He's overprotective because there's so much he can't protect them from, and it's clear that he loves them with all his heart.

The clone and GAR and Mando culture building. This is a grayer area for me because there is a lot of internalized bullshit KT is dealing with that I'll talk about later, but! We wouldn't have nearly the background we do for these cultures without her books. I love most of what she did with it, from the military worldbuilding to the Mandalorian culture and the different facets of it we see through the eyes of different characters. And the language! Mando'a isn't a heavily developed conlang, but the tools are there, and it makes sense within the world. And we have music! We have songs.

I love the characters. There are gray areas, no one is perfect, and they all get down and dirty when things call for it. They love each other deeply and make good and bad decisions, they're realistic. The relationships are tender and gentle, and I love the interactions between everyone, the loyalty and the devotion, and the overarching feeling of grief because we know how this ends.

The clones! I love them! They are wonderful and well developed, and I love hearing their thoughts on everything, and their bond with one another and those around them. I'm not coherent about this one because I think about them for five seconds and start making high pitched noises like an overexcited dog.

The descriptions are so deliciously visceral, and I love reading them.

The bad:

Another unpopular opinion: I loathe Vau. Hate him utterly. He's a good character but a deeply horrible man, and this might be my trauma talking but it's my opinion and I'll die on this goddamn hill. He's verbally and physically abusive, and sees absolutely no consequences (or even reproach) for it in the narrative, aside from Kal breaking his nose, and he deserved so much worse than that.

The misogyny. Oh, Karen honey. That internalized misogyny got you good, huh? The blatant way she treats Etain and Besany through the mouths of other characters is... oof. There's a little bit of reversal, but it's still pretty bad. Even though they're "not like other girls," it's pretty obvious that Karen has a lot of issues with womanhood. It was the 2000s, so I'll let some of it be with the caveat that the 2000s were pretty damn misogynistic in general, but goddamn. Also, on that note, she seems to be fighting herself on whether Mandos have a gender neutral society or not? Like, she'll say on one page that there's no difference between men and women, and then go on to say that men go out and fight but women stay to guard the home and raise the kids. I am putting my head in my hands.

On a related note, Karen is the Jedi who hurt you in the room with us right now? Why do you hate the Jedi so damn much? It doesn't make any sense in the story and it doesn't make sense on a metatextual level. Bro, are you good?

Anyway! Yes! I have many opinions about this book series and I'm sure I forgot to cover everything! Please feel free to ask more questions!

[spectordameron]

Nym nym, your tags today- 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌 *standing ovation*

*sweeping curtsy* thank you. I think the longer I'm in this fandom, the more angrily passionate I get about defending these films. And make no mistake, there's plenty of things that deserve to be criticized about them - but it pisses me off when people just make shit up that's not there or even accurate to bash on things. Not to be pedant, but jesus if you're going to hate my favorite thing, at least have the decency to do your research and do so accurately.

But the sexism is really where I draw the line. Because I grew up in pre-2015 Star Wars. I remember what it was like, before the Force Awakens, being a girl who liked Star Wars. Your options were Jaina Solo, Tenel-Ka, and Mara Jade before Ahsoka really came in - and I can't remember how well, exactly, Tenel-Ka and Jaina were handled, because I honestly never truly sat down and read things all the way through, I just grabbed what was sometimes available at my Goodwill to read a nd back then it wasn't much, but Mara Jade quite notably (in the most out of character fashion!) is fridged.

(Thanks Karen Traviss)

There was Leia, and Padme, of course. But Padme notably is fridged, also. And so is Breha, and so is Beru. And Mon Mothma has line five lines total and it's handwaved somewhere that she's the leader of the Rebellion but then Madine and Ackbar and Dadonna and Riekan do everything in the films...

(and we deleted the take of Leia going "okay hotshot" and absolutely going for it with Han which would have shut down the consent discourse, and then anything character building for Padme also hit the cutting room floor because it didn't have anything to do with Resident Tumblr Favorite White Boys, Anakin and Obi-Wan)

And Ahsoka felt like a ray of sunshine, but she's also a fourteen year old girl running around in a tube top because she still has to have that midriff so men might pay attention to her, and choose your own adventures at the time were so convinced that girls would never read it, that it has the primary POV character have a crush on her (because I'm betting a lesbian unrequited love was not their goal here). And then, of course, over time she became incapable of criticism, because she's Filoni's special girl and can never do any wrong!

(And her entire existence kind of neatly sidelines Padme from being more center stage of the Clone Wars, and is usually more treated as part of the prequel era trio than Padme does...)

During the lead up to the Force Awakens, I was obsessed with Rey. I knew in my bones, somehow, she was going to be the protagonist. I remember, verbatim, saying that "she's not going to be like Padme and Leia [secondary main characters], she's going to be more like Anakin and Luke" and I remember the wonder and chills I felt watching the lightsaber go to her on Starkiller, sitting there in the theater in December 2015. I still get chills today, because that moment was like the entire world opened up, a whole new galaxy of stories that could be told; at the time, the only other character in things I was obsessed with sci-fi wise, was Natasha Romanoff, who was still pretty badly sexualized/a male gaze object.

Before the Force Awakens, there was nothing for girls who liked Star Wars, who liked sci-fi. It was so bad that Ashley Eckstein had to make her own fucking fashion company, just to make clothes for fangirls so we wouldn't have to shop in the men's department all the time.

Is it a coincidence that after Rey, women in Star Wars became less and less sexualized for male viewers? That Wonder Woman came out a couple years later, or Captain Marvel? We wouldn't have the Ahsoka show, or the Acolyte, I'll guarantee you that. We got here because of the walls that the sequel trilogy knocked down - and that journey was not without flaws, because the same courtesy should have absolutely been afforded to its Black main character, rather than having Finn double his weight as a decoy protagonist and comic relief (I'm glad that tros finally let him stop being the comic relief; I think he was done dirty from the start, because just looking at the building blocks and initial concepts they just never knew what to do with Finn) - but it did drastically change the landscape for science fiction and fantasy.

And it seems to have gone almost entirely unnoticed - fairly recently I saw someone express shock that there was even backlash at the time that the main characters were a white woman, a Black man and a latino man. But I remember the backlash; I still hear the backlash, at least for Rey, fairly constantly IRL. I hear from my dad about how she's a boring mary sue, a flat cardboard box, fairly frequently.

It's also so frustrating because if people can't even acknowledge the progress that the sequel trilogy did for women in Star Wars, I know the conversation will never turn to the progress the sequels made in terms of disability.

And finally. I didn't suffer through panic attacks trying to play Star Wars: The Old Republic because when you play a woman Jedi Knight, one of your main companions (a "hero") is a man who can't take no for an answer and is point blank a constant sexual harasser who has at least one line that's definitely non-con implying as hell, or suffered through Anakin being Like That and being pleased that he's made Padme uncomfortable in Attack of the Clones, for people to tell me that the sequel trilogy is the Star Wars media with a problem with women.

[padawanlost]

Hello there! I just wanted to ask about something that’s been confusing me real quick: did Anakin lord over others with his Chosen One status or not? Because I thought he was insecure, disliked all the expectations that came with it, and didn’t really believe in that old prophecy to begin with. But, in Jude Watson’s books he thinks he deserves all these things because of it and rubs that status in other faces? I just need some clarity please lol thank you so much and I adore your blog ❤️

No, not at all. If anything, one of Anakin’s biggest difficulties was to assert himself in front of others (specially people in power).

This is a man who is considered a hero of the galaxy, of the most powerful jedi ever, married, soon to be father, beloved and respect by his men and even complete strangers…yet…look at how easily he submits.

If Anakin had been anything like some ‘fans’ like to pretend he was, he wouldn’t be the character portrayed on screen. He’d more like characters like Tony Stark, someone who is completely confident in his abilities and is not ashamed to admit it. But that’s NOT the character we see on screen, or anywhere else for that matter.

The Jedi Council didn’t want me, either. Being the Chosen One didn’t count for anything. Master Yoda wouldn’t train me, or Windu. Every member of the Jedi Council had had something more pressing to do than help him work out what this terrible, galaxy-changing power of his meant, and how he should live in its shadow. He still wasn’t sure. Anakin recalled standing there in that grand, polished Jedi Council Chamber, surrounded by what felt like fear, and disdain, and bewilderment—who were those Masters to feel bewildered, that the only person there who cared if he lived or died was Master Qui-Gon Jinn. And they stopped him training the Chosen One. Qui-Gon hadn’t cared what the Jedi Council said. He’d trained him anyway, a Padawan in all but name. Why am I thinking of all this now? Haven’t I put it behind me? Haven’t I had enough bad memories since then to take their place? Haven’t I vindicated Master Qui-Gon? [Karen Traviss. The Clone Wars]

Anakin enjoyed praise from Obi-Wan, but often became sullen when he was reprimanded. Obi-Wan assured him that he himself had been frequently reminded by Qui-Gon to be more mindful of the Force, but somehow even the slightest criticism managed to leave Anakin feeling stung. First they tell me to do my best, then they tell me I’ve gone too far! ANAKIN SKYWALKER IN THE RISE AND FALL OF DARTH VADER BY RYDER WINDHAM

Despite Anakin’s desire to distance himself from the slave he had once been, he was unable, or unwilling, to shed the other aspects that had defined him on Tatooine. He still dreamed of glory, still craved adventure, and never lost his appetite for high-speed thrills and the desire to prove himself in competition. THE RISE AND FALL OF DARTH VADER BY RYDER WINDHAM

Anakin was liked by the other students, but he had no close friends. He was not loved. Obi-Wan told himself that Anakin’s gifts naturally set him apart. But in his heart, he grieved for Anakin’s loneliness. JUDE WATSON [JEDI QUEST: THE WAY OF THE APPRENTICE]

Just when Anakin thought he’d passed that elusive finishing line that said adult, experienced, seen it all, he realized he was still twenty, Jedi or not, and the wounded boy in him still rose to the surface—provoked into angry violence, scared of abandonment, and still in need of approval. KAREN TRAVISS [STAR WARS: THE CLONE WARS NOVELIZATION]

[Obi-Wan] knew, glancing at his Padawan’s eager face, that Anakin meant well from the bottom of his heart. If Obi-Wan saw a shadow on that heart, he knew it would pain his Padawan to know it. In many ways, Anakin was still a boy. A wounded, loving, anxious boy with great gifts he did not fully understand. Yet he was also a young man, close to maturity, who could do great harm. To others, yes. To himself, most of all JUDE WATSON [JEDI QUEST: THE SCHOOL OF FEAR]

“I just…” Anakin stopped. He took a ragged breath. “I thought you would be proud of me.” I am proud of you. Obi-Wan wanted to say the words. They were true. He was proud of so much in Anakin. But now was not the time to tell him that. Or was it? JUDE WATSON [JEDI QUEST: THE SCHOOL OF FEAR]

Fixing broken machines was like a meditation. Fixing broken machines was an antidote to every pain, every loss, every fear, every defeat. Fixing broken machines kept him from going mad. CLONE WARS GAMBIT: STEALTH

You are very observant, Ferus, but you must accept that I know him better than you,” Obi-Wan said carefully. “Anakin can be arrogant. I know that. But he is also learning and growing. He is respectful of his great power. He does not abuse it. He is younger than you, but he has seen much injustice, many terrible things. I do not think it so wrong that he wants to change things. You must understand that it isn’t ambition that drives him. It is compassion. OBI-WAN KENOBI IN STAR WARS – JEDI QUEST: THE CHANGING OF THE GUARD BY JUDE WATSON

Taking them, she looked up at him and shook her head, even though it still ached. “It’s odd. You’re nothing like I expected.” “Why?” he said, perching on the edge of the nearby chair. “What did you expect?” “I don’t know,” she said, floundering. “I can’t say I’ve ever given the Jedi much thought. I mean, not as individuals. I never expected to meet one—let alone two. I don’t tend to go places where your skills are needed. But—well—you’re gentle.” That made him smile. “As opposed to what?” She swallowed the pain-tabs, washing them down with a mouthful of water. “Oh. You know. The HoloNet news—it portrays as you as this—this—heroic warrior. Larger than life. Charging into battle, lightsaber flashing. Scourge of the Separatists. That kind of thing.” She shrugged. [Karen Miller. Star Wars: Clone Wars Gambit: Stealth]

“Ten years in this place, and still he was an object of interest. Of speculation. All their hopes and dreams hanging on him like decorations on a bantha skeleton at Boonta Eve. He hated it.” [Clone Wars: Wild space, Karen Miller]

[Anakin] did not like the fact that he had won. It seemed wrong that he had stepped so far out of line, and yet had been retained as a Padawan. He did not like the unease this victory, if victory it was, produced in him. Above all weaknesses, arrogance was the most costly. They keep me here because I have potential they’ve never seen before. They keep me in training because they’re curious to see what I can do. I feel like a rich man who never knows whether his friends are true-or whether they just want his money. This was a particularly galling thought, and certainly neither true nor fair. Why do they put up with me, then? Why do I keep testing them? [Greg Bear’s Rogue Planet]

The only piece of media where Anakin is more ‘openly’ arrogant is in The Clone Wars (2008) but even then, he doesn’t flaunt his alleged ‘status’ over everyone. His arrogance is reflected more through his disobedience, not open defiance and antagonist behavior towards his peers.

But hey, what do Hayden Christensen, George Lucas and most Star Wars writers know? lol

PS: thank you! <3

[clonecumber]

Hi, I'm wondering if you know that Karen Traviss published on her website what she wanted to write about in unwritten Imperial Commando 2 book

Here's link if you want to check it: https://www.karentraviss.com/information/FAQ/index.html

I saw something about that way back when after her book series was first cancelled, I think. I don't really pay it much mind, but since you asked I took a peek? And, all right, this is pretty funny.

You’re anon so I can’t guess, and I don't know what you were hoping for in response, but you may not necessarily know about my opinions on KT's general authorial decisions (it's mostly negative), so since I responded to this very flippantly, I'm going to put it under a cut in case you don't want to see it:

Also, accepting that most of these were just notes and first draft style nonsense, so they might have been fleshed out or shifted when she actually wrote them. I can appreciate that. That said...

Good to see that's where the idea Jusik married a mind-rubbed Arla came from, though. That's...swell. (Ew ew ew ew ew ew ew ew-) (I hate this the MOST.)

Marriage, marriage, whatever, whatever...

I refuse to accept Rede dying. Especially for yet more Skirata nonsense. This plot line already exists, all right, she could have let him give an actual shit about Dov, if she wanted Skirata-killing-clones manpain. Look, I'm telling you, Niner just kidnaps Rede for a character development road trip where they both try to convince the other to join the dark side. It's canon. I say so.

Darman also doesn't kidnap Kad because...okay, I absolutely think he would try, fair enough, but honestly? He's trying to get to that kid past Atin and Laseema and Fi and Corr and Mereel and Ordo and-? The man gets tackled to the ground and sat on in true Null-style conflict resolution. End scene. Maybe he gets an escorted field trip with Kad away from Kyrimorut with his squad since we're going to respect that he doesn't feel like Kyrimorut is safe (and he's not wrong) but there's no way Darman's in a good place to take care of a toddler by himself even in the short-term. Kad doesn't deserve that trauma. Take a nap, Dar.

I will accept Maze and Zey duo-ing it up across the galaxy. That one can stay.

Lol the clan being forced to flee, though. We all saw it coming.

[bloodgulchblog]

Glasslands, Pt 3, Final

I suppose it was inevitable that at some point, I would have to talk about my opinion on Halo’s political/moral implications. Everyone congratulate my past self for this prank I played on my present self by deciding to discuss Halo at length to people.

I’ll keep it brief:

Halo is one of those stories that gives us permission to imagine a justified war in which the entire human species faces extinction at the hands of an implacable, nonhuman enemy. Halo also tells the story of an empire being challenged by rebellion in its colonies, these rebels are Bad Enough Dudes to be punished with violence, and these are colonies which did not require the subjugation of pre-existing native peoples in order to form.

None of these things is unique to Halo. It borrows a pile of classic science fiction tropes in order to create a world in which it can tell stories about cool space gun shoot times and Hard Decisions (TM) without it being too unpalatable for its intended audience. It does this by avoiding the real problems inherent in real war, empire, and colonialism.

I do my best to be an anti-war, anti-colonialist person, and it is my hope that some of the problems in these tropes are self-evident enough that I can get on with this post without having to belabor them. Is it weird that I’m into Halo like this? I don’t know, probably. The brain chemicals move in mysterious ways.

I don’t generally take being a fan of Halo, or even being a writer for Halo, as a red flag about a person’s beliefs. I think most people engaging with Halo also find something compelling in it (possibly just a paycheck) and I think it’s irresponsible to try to judge the inner lives of others based solely on the fiction they consume or produce. I mean, if Halo has problems and liking Halo is a red flag in and of itself, where does that leave me?

But that’s not to say one can learn nothing about what someone might be like from their fiction.

This brings me back around to our subject today.

Sometimes, in the course of reading someone’s work, something gives you such powerful bad vibes that you can’t help but start having suspicions. Glasslands is, for me, one of those books.

(It gets long here, folks.)

After reading Karen Traviss’s attempt to convince me that somehow ONI’s pile of war crimes were the cool and good war crimes, as opposed to Dr. Halsey’s bad and evil war crimes, I began to question whether or not the author... how shall we say, has a distinct taste for rubber soles and boot leather. This gave me pause, as all I know about her is one book and one short story. However, I have always heard rumors of her being a terror in another fandom.

So, I conferred with some Star Wars nerds. What did Karen Traviss do in Star Wars, and (importantly) was it more than just bros being nerdmad that a woman wrote a story they didn’t like?

Given that this is not my particular nerd lit poison, I can only tell you about it secondhand. Based upon my research, these are the things Traviss is most notorious for:

Passionately hating the Jedi (and talking about how Order 66 was deserved) while lionizing the Mandalorians (who had just as many problems, but they were her special favorites)

Giving people “ah, she’s a military fetishist with a bit of the fash” vibes

Ignoring canon details and especially bending pre-existing lore to make people she likes look good and people she hates look bad

Showing no respect for characters/lore other writers had created (including killing off a major character from another author such that he only found out about it after the book was published)

Bragging about not reading the work of other people working on the same canon

Flouncing from Star Wars when she felt like her contributions were being disrespected

Calling fans who didn’t like her the “Talifans” (as in the Taliban), meanwhile fans who liked her were the “Fandalorians”

Some of these antics absolutely form a pattern when one looks at what she has done in Halo as of Glasslands. To whit:

Passionately hating Dr. Halsey while lionizing Admiral Parangosky and ONI

Ignoring prior canon in order to make Halsey look bad and ONI look good (to her, anyway)

Importing her pet drama from Star Wars to Halo and ignoring prior canon to make it fit

What was her pet Star Wars drama? From what I can tell, two things: Believing the Jedi are evil elitist eugenicists, and that they are vicious slavemaster monsters because of the clone army. She had an FAQ page about hating the Jedi on her website for years where she claimed not to hate the Jedi, but drew parallels between fans defending the Jedi and actual Nazis. In an interview, she once said that Order 66 was deserved and that the only Jedi characters she didn’t want to “shoot on sight” were her own OCs.

It’s very weird compartmentalized thinking, honestly. In the same interview as the legendary Order 66 quote she talks about how she doesn’t believe in writing characters to be “villains” and how it’s important to her to make all her characters make sense internally to her, and to hear everyone’s side, but several paragraphs later she just goes off on a specific class of character that is totally okay to just violently hate. Her Jedi FAQ page had her talking about how it would be ridiculous to hate fictional things because they’re not real, and good grief was that rich of her based on the other evidence.

I don’t know enough EU lore to really talk about the contents of her work, given that Jaws was never my scene and I don’t like Star Wars. However, “the person I hate is an evil eugenicist because the Spartan program had genetic compatibility requirements, I am going to focus really heavily on the fact there was a kind of cloning, and I am going to make up a ton of shit and ignore details to make fetch happen” is absolutely her MO in Halo.

Let’s not pretend that Halsey is an innocent baby angel and the Spartan program was anything less than awful, but here’s the thing: Traviss wants us to sympathize with ONI (which has done even more and even worse bad things than Dr. Halsey) for being cool and necessary while hating Dr. Halsey for the Spartan program. She wants us to sympathize with a guy fantasizing about murdering her (when she is by this point completely repentant and cooperative) and comparing her to Dr. Mengele (an actual literal IRL Nazi whose crimes were nothing like this stupid shootmans game fictional character’s crimes.) Traviss pays lip service to more sympathetic points and has things like Admiral Parangosky talking about how she herself is going to burn in hell, but there is so much venom in this book. The framing of these scenes is so clear. We are supposed to like Parangosky and Vaz, we are supposed to hate Dr. Halsey, Traviss wants us to feel that so badly.

Halo has always had serious problems when you think about the ethics of what’s going on inside it, but for the most part? Halo doesn’t usually ask the audience to wrangle with them like this. A lot of the Halo experience is Halo going “Hey kid, you wanna hear about a fucked up situation? It’ll be fun for a couple hours,” and you go “Yeah, sure.” It’s not deep. Sometimes someone can get into real feelings when they engage with Halo sincerely, but for the most part I feel like Halo knows that Halo is on thin fucking ice when dealing with the origins of the Spartans and it behooves it to keep moving quickly.

The problem Traviss has is that Traviss wants you to take her seriously in Glasslands. Traviss wants to give you a real indictment of the bad shit in the heart of Halo, she means it.

The problem I have is that when I take Traviss up on her dare and hit it as hard as I can, it just flies apart for me. She does have some ideas that are enjoyable and some scenes that are fun. There are much weaker writers in Halo canon, lots of them. But what it comes down to is: they don’t ask me to actually think about important human things that matter for real when I’m reading them.

She tells me to look into Halo for the darkness inside of Halo, but it sure as hell feels like this author showing me the darkness inside of her instead.

When Halsey asks Parangosky what makes her so much worse, Parangosky tells her: Halsey lied to her about the clones. Let’s ignore that Halsey somehow successfully lying about the cloning to ONI is stupid and doesn’t make sense, and entertain this for a moment. Traviss throws up a smokescreen of going on about how bad and evil the cloning is, but it’s the lying. The lying is how she couches the final knife Parangosky is driving in, the particulars of the evil don’t actually matter that much compared to the lie.

ONI does evil every day of the week and twice on Tuesdays, but Halsey lied to the organization. Halsey was disloyal to ONI. When Halsey finally abandons ONI because she can no longer stand it, this is treated by Traviss as a despicable, self-deluding bitch martyring her conscience. She can’t actually mean it, she’s a self-serving disloyal monster that can convince herself of anything. Otherwise, she would have remained loyal to ONI: the sanctioned authority of doing horrible shit for “the greater good.”

The authority. The organization. It’s not ONI’s fault one of its actors did something beyond the pale (such as the pale apparently is for Traviss’s ONI), it’s one bad apple. Her manhandling of canon details is all about setting up this conclusion for us, and that’s because the institutional authority of ONI and the UNSC matters to Traviss.

And this is adjacent enough to some real world things to leave one with some very serious questions about who the person writing this stuff is. Laying aside anything else that’s gross in Glasslands (describing shooting an Engineer as feeling like shooting an autistic child absolutely comes to mind), this is the shit that eats me.

What kind of person’s work am I reading?

Well.

When I was talking to friends and working through my feelings about Glasslands and its author, one of my friends casually mentioned to me that Traviss’s twitter behavior (before she mostly quit using it in 2021) had demonstrated her to be a Brexit-supporting, transphobic asshole with bad opinions about covid. So, I went looking to see what her current Twitter likes are.

Here are some examples.

(Did I mention that she apparently has a ship named after Thatcher in one of her books? Yes? Sorry, gotta do it again.)

Much like I don’t think this about Halo as a whole, I don’t think that enjoying the Kilo Five trilogy is a sign that someone is a bad person. I don’t think it’s enough information to have to know anything of significance about somebody.

I also don’t think I could appropriately say I know, with certainty, who this author is on the inside just based on all the internet bullshit I could dig up.

But I certainly feel confident that I know enough about her writing and her behavior in social internet spaces that I think I would prefer not to have anything to do with her.

I’m updating my Halo author shitlist, Traviss absolutely takes the cake at the top now. Denning’s merely irritating to me by comparison, Traviss is actively gross.

Links:

The SWEU subreddit talks about Traviss

The legendary "Order 66 was long overdue" interview

The Jedi Hating FAQ Page

A Hobby Drama post in which Traviss features

[gffa]

Been looking into folks opinions on Karen Traviss, to understand the deal with her. Overall many agree she's a competent writer and get's the feel for military action down right but she needs to lay off the Mando worship, handle criticism better. However. Some of those same people say they like how she shined a light on the Darker side of the Jedi. Which is where they loose me. I don't think they get that the Jedi aren't supposed to *have* a dark side. Being flawed yes, but that's too far.

I have a difficult time with anything to do with Karen Traviss knowing how horrible her politics are (her Twitter is Something Else, yikes), in addition to how she has said things like, “If you disagree with me about the Jedi being Master Racers (as in they saw themselves as genetically superior to non-Force-sensitives), then you’re thinking like a Nazi, too.” and that the Jedi Order got what they deserved with Order 66. That’s the mindset that went into creating her content for Star Wars and so I feel pretty comfortable going N O P E at all of her stuff. Further, the thing about the Jedi and the dark side is that there’s often the idea that they want to deny that it existed or totally eradicate it--but the Jedi never say this.  They want to destroy the Sith (who are, via George Lucas, legitimately bad and really did need to be stopped), not the dark side. Instead, they teach their children that the dark side is part of them and something to guard against:

--Master & Apprentice Which is pretty much exactly what George Lucas says about how the dark side works: “Only way to overcome the dark side is through discipline. The dark side is pleasure, biological and temporary and easy to achieve. The light side is joy, everlasting and difficult to achieve.”  --George Lucas It’s also easy to go through the movies and TV show and look at the Jedi and see them showing negative emotions:

All from Jedi Masters, the characters most often associated with being “perfect”--negative emotions all over the place, but they’re not acting from those emotions, they’re not letting it sink its claws into their hearts. So, the Jedi struggle with the dark side, they experience it like literally everyone else, the whole idea is to rise above it, every day, your entire life, because that’s how the Force works and how the Jedi work and how George Lucas structured the way Star Wars works. The Jedi are sentient people and I think it’s a mistake to hold them up as literally flawless--both because they’re not and because that puts them on a pedestal and if they’re not 100% perfect, then they’re 100% trash--of course they have darker sides, literally every character who is worth their salt has darker sides!  We can point to literally any character in Star Wars and show their less attractive qualities, like, I could write you an entire essay on Ahsoka’s mistakes and flaws.  But that doesn’t mean the whole idea isn’t that she’s working towards being the best person she can be, she’s always walking the path she sees in front of her, just as the Jedi were doing the same, trying to find the best path forward that they had available and working every day to discipline themselves against the dark side that was in every single living thing. Because, as I always come back to this quote from a George Lucas interview:

There’s a good side and a bad side.  You have a choice between them, but the world works better if you’re on the good side. And that’s what the Jedi believe.  You have both within you, but the world works better if you choose the light and keep choosing the light.

[littlebitwriter]

12 DAYS OF STAR WARS: AN ORIGINAL FANBOY-DRIVEN BLOG SERIES “EPISODE 7: SOME OF MY FAVORITE STAR WARS EU CHARACTERS”

Here is a list not ranked of some of my favorite characters in the Star Wars Expanded Universe. Both canon and non-canon. *Specifically not gigantically main characters in the mainline saga films and ones who often have extensive material in tie-in media.*

GRAND ADMIRAL THRAWN

In terms of comparing Star Wars characters to archetypes, Grand Admiral Thrawn is the evil Sherlock Holmes of the Star Wars galaxy. The smartest, most tactical, perhaps the most shocking Star Wars villain is Grand Admiral Thrawn. A character with a unique philosophy and battle strategy. He looks at the art of a civilization or planet in the beginning of Heir To The Empire where he can tell/figure out something about that civilization/species through their art which is fascinating. He is a unique, evenly tempered character and listens to what people have to say if they have good ideas. Thrawn is a character who is evil who also has control of his emotions. He isn’t like Kylo Ren who flips out on his macbook pro or is like “Fire Everything!” Thrawn is ultimately the antithesis of that. He is the antithesis to Darth Vader and The Emperor in terms of their philosophy which is perhaps scarier and his philosophy is ‘don’t let your emotions consume you’ and is as level-headed as Darth Vader and is very much all about power. He is an incredibly unique character and villain unlike any other in Star Wars lore. There is so much rich Thrawn material out there, from the various novels by Timothy Zahn such as the original Thrawn Trilogy: Heir To The Empire, Dark Force Rising & The Last Command. As well as the Modern Thrawn Trilogy (set before the events of his appearance in Star Wars Rebels) Thrawn, Alliances and Treason. As well as many, many others I have not mentioned.

MARA JADE

She is a great character who starts from a very interesting place in Heir To The Empire who started out as a Force-sensitive Imperial assassin who is easily next to Thrawn, both are the best characters Timothy Zahn created in the Star Wars EU lore. She much like a lot of characters I will be talking about, are all truly authentic Star Wars characters. They all have the makings of a great iconic Star Wars character who went on an exciting redemptive journey across the EU from being an Imperial assassin who Palpatine wanted to kill Luke Skywalker to eventually become the wife of Luke Skywalker and mother of Ben Skywalker as a Jedi master. There was a lot that happened to her with the Yuuzhan Vong but everything about that outside of Mara Jade gives me a gigantic headache. Anyway she is a great character who should be integrated into the new canon and should be established to have been married to Luke. (In my personal headcanon Luke was married to Mara Jade in the gap between ROTJ and TFA) She just has one of the best character arcs in all of Star Wars and is a phenomenal character.

QUINLAN VOS

One of my favorite characters in the Expanded Universe is Quinlan Vos who has stories in the comics that came out during the time of The Clone Wars comics of the early aughts written by John Ostrander. The story of him really goes across The Clone Wars. He is an incredible character who is ultimately an exploration of the ideas of the Dark Side and the Light Side and the temptation of the Dark Side and he kind of rides that line between the two. He is very much a rogue Jedi and kind of goes with the dark and dabbles towards it but ultimately is a good guy. His story in the Clone Wars from Ostrander is very pivotal to his character. Also Dark Disciple is another Quinlan Vos story that is in canon that is based on unused scripts of the modern Clone Wars episodes and that is as well a good Quinlan Vos story with his unique relationship with Asajj Ventress.

CADE SKYWALKER

The main character of perhaps the best Star Wars things next to The Original Trilogy which is John Ostrander and Jaan Dursuma’s Legacy. He ultimately much like Quinlan Vos is an extremely fascinating character. He is a bounty hunter who has all but rejected his Jedi teachings and he does Death Sticks. He really dances on the line between Dark Side and Light Side in such an interesting way where there are things he does for good but he’s using Dark Side powers and bringing people back from the dead which is quote Palpatine in Revenge of The Sith “Unnatural…” He is a unique conflicted character and he is very much one of my favorite characters in Star Wars lore. He is very much like Quinlan Vos the archetypal John Ostrander dark Jedi character in a good way.

BOBA FETT

I love Boba Fett. He’s got a bad reputation now especially with a show about a super competent Mandalorian who is ‘The Mandalorian’ who is clearly not Boba Fett because of a thing that he does at the end of the pilot episode that Boba Fett would never do. Boba Fett ultimately unknown to the general mainstream public truly is not just a bum/incompetant clone/bounty hunter that ended up in Sarlacc Pit. He was once a and almost had a solo-novel written by Karen Traviss (A great Star Wars writer who wrote many great books such as The Republic Commando series, also has an obsession with Mandalorians) However in-canon as of now, Boba Fett died in Sarlacc Pit and ultimately the badass Boba Fett pre-1999 EU is now alive and well in The Mandalorian.

DARTH MAUL

One of the boldest creative decisions in all of Star Wars was in the fourth season of the modern Clone Wars TV Show which was a moment I remember seeing on television for the first time which is… The Return of Darth Maul. This led to what I call the “Maul Resurgence” where after I watched that story arc in television I was obsessed with Maul and had a connection to Maul outside of the double-bladed lightsaber and the spiky horns I was fascinated by his rivalry, connection and hatred of Obi-Wan Kenobi. I read the novel by Michael Reaves that was a prequel to Phantom Menace which was Shadow Hunter. Which established his backstory as being raised by Palpatine and was inflicted with Sith tattoos and was originally a Zabrak (which changed due to The Clone Wars he is now a…Dathomir. He is ultimately an assassin told he’s a Sith, not really a proper Dark Force user, he was a mad dog on Palpatine’s leash that became used everywhere. He is very much the prequel’s Boba Fett where he looks super cool and most of the public doesn't know he survived after his initial cheap death where they got a comeback and more development. In The Clone Wars He spent years in shame and squalor and when he gets power back and gains composure you see he learned the lessons Sidious/Palpatine taught him and that’s what makes his duel with him, Oppress and Sidious/Palpatine so impressive is that you can make the argument that Maul was legitimately a threat to Sidious. He is capable of being a thrilling and terrifying threat. As a Maul fan My favorite scene in Solo: A Star Wars Story is when you learn he is the head of the criminal organization of Crimson Dawn and the idea of him being a crime lord is genius. His story is ultimately perfectly wrapped up in Rebels in perhaps my favorite and in my opinion the most epic lightsaber fight in all of Star Wars which is his last battle with Kenobi. It’s an old-school epic samurai fight with such ambience and power and perfectly ends Maul story and captures the evolution of Obi-Wan and Maul’s relationship.

THE CHILD

The social media phenomenon himself gets what he / she deserves and is perhaps my favorite youngling in Star Wars lore (sorry, no disrespect to characters like Ashoka). It may seem like I’m hopping on the bandwagon but I really am not, outside of Yoda and Yaddle I believe, there is one other character who is of the same species who fans often mention and even casual or non fans mention a lot who is The Child. There is ultimately I think going to be a solid reason as to why he is such a phenomenon. Much like these other characters this is something about The Child that is distinctive and unique in that all of these characters are wholly their own and go on their own journeys and I’m sure The Child will be one of them. He is young for his species only fifty years old and has a long, long life ahead of him in a galaxy far, far away…

-LilBitWriter (12/19/19)

[nieithryn]

So in legends, the clones were programmed to ignore any clone injured and marked with a certain symbol. This was for clones that were either going to die, or too injured to be worth the resources to save them. If Tuan We was the head of the cloning program, it would make sense that she would have had to approve this. That isn't really the behavior of a loving clone mom

In Legends they also wanted me to believe that Commander “When have I ever let you down?” Cody would hear Sheev trigger 66 and be like “Well shit I just handed him his ‘saber, too bad let’s shoot him.”

No, more seriously/less saltily, most of what Legends gives us about clones is from Karen Traviss, and I mostly reject her works.  It’s fine if you don’t!  But I can’t get past her flagrant disregard for any other Star Wars authors works, her out of universe personality, and her blatantly anti-Jedi/“The Jedi deserved what came to them” attitude.  And so I tend to ignore most of her contributions to the EU.  All that being said, though, Taun We is from a culture where cloning is part of how they sustain their own population.  So being a clone doesn’t inherently disqualify personhood.

Taun We was in charge primarily of creation and ‘basic’ training; she isn’t qualified to teach arms mastery, or marksmanship, for instance.  And Kaminoan culture, much like Vulcan culture in Star Trek, prides itself on logic, not emotion.  Kaminoans often claim they have no emotions, but this is obviously untrue for Taun We.  Boba describes her as being like a mother figure, and even Jango acknowledges that she and Zam are the only positive female influences in Boba’s life, which implies that Jango considers her a good influence on his son.  I have my issues with Jango’s EU/Legends characterization myself, but his protectiveness is always spot-on.

I’m not saying Taun We didn’t make decisions that she emotionally struggled with, or that she was always kind.  Or even that, in the EU especially, she was a ‘loving mother.’  But what I will say, is that in canon we see Kaminoans replace eyes, and limbs.  Those aren’t cheap, even for Kaminoans.  So I’m hesitant to believe Taun We signed off on that.  Now it’s possible that a psychologist below her did, and she certainly applied stringent and perfectionist rules on clone creation.  But kaminoans apply that level of pickiness to their own species as well, so that’s not necessarily a sign of lack of love either.

Anyway, Nonnie, I’m not saying that Taun We is on Shaak’s level of clone baby love.  But I don’t think she’s actively cruel like fandom loves to make her, either.  And just because she has to be harsh, doesn’t mean she cannot have feelings outside of the limitations of her job.  She just culturally isn’t allowed to act on them but rarely.

[starbeltconstellation]

Actually, I am apparently a lying liar who lies, and am reblogging one more time to post the link to the Tumblr meta post I referenced earlier in this long response which is what convinced me without a doubt that ultimately The Acolyte’s themes/morals are hollow, and honestly most of the characters in the show (Yord, Jecki and Sol, who were fan favorites) come to ultimately be a hollow backdrop just so Oshamir can meet and stare off into the sunset at the end of the show, because ultimately THAT’S what this whole show was about: making sure Reylo 2.0 had a happy ending.

But it wasn’t originally marketed like that. LH fakes the audience out in making you believe Sol is the protagonist, before ripping the rug out from under you to say that he and the Jedi (heroes) never were important or mattered at all. Because halfway through, the show, by LH’s own words, turns into a “dark romance novel” that she based around Dracula and his lost love, I believe (ie; “I have crossed oceans of time to find you”).

It basically switches genres and speed runs through all the characters’s final arcs (if you can even call them that, besides Sol, and MAYBE Osha, although Osha’s didn’t really have enough time to feel organic), getting them from Point A to Point B for certain plot points to pass, even if it doesn’t make sense for the characters. Sol is a character who is supposed to have made a huge mistake that has haunted him and made him become a cautious and more better Jedi (apparently anyway. That’s what I gathered from tumblr posts about the show).

And yet, in the final episode, he apparently does a complete 180 on all of his remorse, just for the sheer purpose to make sure he and Osha can’t actually have a full conversation about what happened and how he didn’t purposely kill her mother in cold blood for kicks and giggles, and instead did it because he misunderstood what was actually happening at the time (he is completely demonized for this, by the way. All fans blame him completely for the encounter, which just shows again this show wasn’t about portraying a “skewed” perspective. It’s portraying the Jedi as wrong and basically “deserving 🤢” of their genocide).

It’s then that you see the show was only a hollow backdrop for Reylo 2.0 to meet and have their “happily ever after.” Even Sol was just a hollow backdrop in the end, because he’s shoved into a complete one dimensional caricature of himself to get there to that end scene of Oshamir staring off into the sunset, as if Osha joining the Dark Side isn’t a soul destroying thing that will eventually consume her. But LH doesn’t believe that. She believes it’s “liberating girl power”, which is why the end scene is so forced, because it doesn’t feel organic, like the characters actually got there of their own free will. It feels like they got there because the writer dragged them into place like actors on a stage to stand on their marks.

Okay, anyway, NOW I’m done. 😂 I really don’t wanna keep talking about this, because I know fans of the show are disappointed and I know stuff like this can rub salt in their wounds and I don’t want to do that, but I just really needed to vent all my thoughts in one post at least to link back on if needed. But… honestly… since The Acolyte is now (sadly 😒) canon for life unless anything changes somehow and it gets purged from the SW timeline (part of me wants that who’s pro Jedi, and part of me doesn’t, because I know the racist dudebros would cheer 😭🤦‍♀️), all pro Jedi fans are never gonna hear the end of anti Jedi’s referencing back to the way the Jedi are portrayed in The Acolyte like a “gotcha”, when honestly anything about the Jedi portrayal from The Acolyte should be immediately discarded (just like Karen Traviss’s books, because of her gross disregard of their genocide/her sheer hatred of them) because of the sheer fact that LH agrees with the Sith/jerk Senator/Osha’s witch mother who spouts the genocide apologia line mouthpieces who have such hatred of the Jedi and their culture. Why should a writer who dislikes the Jedi be taken into consideration with the way she portrays them? It only means that her portrayal will be more likely to be biased and inaccurate.

But sadly, since The Acolyte is here to stay, I probably will eventually speak on the show again (despite my best efforts in the future to bite my tongue), because anti/Jedi critical fans will use the portrayal from the show in their arguments against them being the good guys from now on.

But anyway… 😂 I kinda got off track. Again. My original point is I agree with the post I’m linking, because it made me realize that The Acolyte’s writing is more hollow than LH would have you believe. It’s all shiny on the outside with a lot of Legends references, but once you look deeper (particularly the final episode), you realize how much it just doesn’t fit the original theme of SW.

I don’t think they are bad and some survived order 66 Quinlan Vos was one of them. But I do believe they lost their way by the end of the clone wars because most lost their way or watered down their beliefs becoming to caught up in image and pandering to the senate (palps *cough*) even yoda said basically that a dark shroud surround them (Sith made) but they made themselves susceptible to it with arrogance, becoming inflexible, and a strange combo of attachment and detachment. Even mace windu was attached to the republic which is one of the reasons he was so defensive and disliked Anakin he saw him as a threat to his republic.

I’m not trying to hate on the Jedi just make sure that in discussing the Jedi we remember the good and bad. The Jedi did a lot of good, they made one of the longest major peace times the galaxy had ever seen, that’s 1000 years of peace time after ending the Sith war. And actually Luke skywalker, Ezra Bridger, Ahsoka (rebellion), and season 4 Kanan were prime examples of what the Jedi were originally. I just think when palpatine started pulling strings and corrupting everything to take power it made slow brewing Jedi problems 10x worse as some Jedi like Barriss Offee’s master mixed up avoiding negative attachment with being cold and callous because while a Jedi master should avoid “possessive” attachment especially in a way that would hold their student back they should have a good bond with them because emotional bonds are one of the pillars of trust.

-that’s my take, I’m not sure what you meant by no Jedi haters though. So if this crosses your line then I’m sorry I can see myself out cause I don’t want to start a conflict 😅

Hello, anon. 👋

Firstly, I just want to DEEPLY apologize for the long wait in my response. 😅🤦‍♀️ I try not to get behind on asks, but life has been crazy for me at the moment, and especially with longer asks like yours, I really want to take my time and give a good and in depth response.

Now, just right off the bat: I don’t mind discussing things. As long as it doesn’t get nasty and full of insults. So I’m not about to bite your head off.

In fact, I am going to take the time to use your ask to refute all of these critical/anti Jedi points, proving how most of it is Palpatine’s propaganda that the galactic citizens/SW fandom has grown to believe because it’s easier to have a big bad scapegoat (ie; the Jedi boogie man) than for galactic citizens to grapple with the fact that they themselves are also a part of the problem because THEY are the ones who vote in politicians in the Senate (who are a lot corrupt, except like a handful like Mon Mothma/Bail Organa/Riyo Chuchi/Padmé/etc. And even Padmé wasn’t a complete saint like a lot of fans think, since she purposely hid Anakin’s Tusken massacre just because she didn’t want to give up her new hot murder husband who was obsessively adoring over her/loved her), and THEY are the ones who also got the most complacent, are they not? After all… if the fandom blames the JEDI… why didn’t the CITIZENS clock anything wrong until suddenly an Empire was telling them to hand over all their freedoms or die?

It’s really easy to sit back and say what you would’ve done in the Jedi’s position, because the audience has more information than they do. What Dooku and Qui-Gon told them is the equivalent of being told they saw a unicorn (Sith) in the wild. It’s not that out there that there’d be some doubts from the Council, and people seem to forget that the Council STILL said they’d look into it. But they aren’t magic. They can’t just snap their fingers and see that Palpatine is the Sith Lord. Especially with the Darkness cloaking their Force senses. I think it’s kinda… gross? To blame them for something Palpatine was causing (the cloaking Darkness) that was literally part of the plan to genocide them. Just a thought, but maybe that should be Palpatine’s and Anakin’s fault, where it belongs? Lol. Sorry if I sound a little snippy, it’s just this is a tired and running around in circles argument (although I do think your ask is a genuine one, which is why I’m taking the time to answer it and perhaps if not change YOUR mind, then change someone else’s that might read this. I’m trying to reach more across the aisle here, because both sides I’ll admit have moments where they only want to be defensive and not explain their positions).

It’s funny how people always point out that the Jedi missed brewing corruption (they totally knew about it and tried to fight against it how they could. But just like in real life, I’m unsure what people expect from them. To strut into the Senate and threaten/murder the politicians into submission? Because ya know… that was kinda the red flag Anakin gave off with that “They should be made to!” line to Padmé. Just saying. 🤷‍♀️ Just like anyone, Jedi know the politicians of the Republic are slowly being corrupt (just like MOST politicians in real life, and you don't see everyone condemning all US citizens because we don't go clean them out like assassins or something), but there isn't anything they can do about that unless you expect them to go in and wave their lightsabers around to threaten the politicians into submission. As if Palpatine wouldn't immediately twist that into his favor to say they were "trying to take over the Republic". (And oh wait—he did that in the movies! Funny how that works, huh?)

What I think is interesting about you and about a lot of Jedi fans (including LH, who is the writer of The Acolyte) is that you THINK you’re being “fair” to the Jedi, but you’re kinda… not? 🤷‍♀️😅 And I’m not saying that as an insult. I’m saying it because it’s true.

Let me explain: There are rabid anti Jedi fans known as the infamous Karen Travis’s who is basically a rapid and foaming at the mouth Jedi anti who believes they “got what was coming to them.🤢🥶” LH on the other hand (at least in HER head), views herself as Jedi CRITICAL (which is something you clearly view yourself as as well. And there’s nothing wrong with being Jedi critical. The problem is that a lot of times this “criticism” becomes condescending, whether intentional or not, despite maybe the person’s best intentions). And while there is a little bit of a difference there, it’s not as stark a line as fans would try to convince us pro Jedi’s to believe.

As I mentioned to someone else in my other ask: there are plenty of fair criticisms about the Jedi that I can acknowledge: the Shimi thing, for one, which is I think just a bad symptom of GL’s writing being more “metaphorical” than literal. Shimi HAS to stay on Tatooine because Anakin eventually HAS to murder the Tuskens in cold blood so GL can tell the story he wants to tell of how Anakin can’t let go, and so the Jedi are never given the opportunity to do what I truly BELIEVE they would’ve done, which is go back and free her, at least for the peace of mind of one of their newest initiate. The plot literally physically bars them from doing so.

And even THIS is not without its flaws, because they would ONLY have wiggle room to free Shimi after the heat of TPM problems had died down where they had time to do so… while walking past/avoiding eye contact with all of Shimi’s slave neighbors, because as specified before—The Jedi have no jurisdiction in the Outer Rim, and you bet your ass if they freed all those slaves and started a war with the Hutts with their little 10,000 strong army, the Republic would take one look and go “Lol, good luck with that,” and not help them at all, which would be basically suicide for the Order to try and accomplish on abolishment of slavery on the Outer Rim all on their own in the TRILLIONS of people in the galaxy. They do not have the MAN POWER for that. Not without the Senate army/clones. So how can they be blamed for this? WHY are one of the “space minorities” of the galaxy being blamed for something that should be the POLITICIANS’S job? Can you not see the double standard here? Genuinely asking, anon, because it’s always baffled me.

People want the Jedi to do something about it? Get on the Senate’s ass about it then—the REAL people who are responsible for all of the shit going wrong in the Outer Rim while they line their pockets and kiss up to clueless galactic citizens for votes come election time. THEY are the ones that should be responsible for the problems of an ENTIRE galaxy—not a small little minority group (which I’ve already come to realize that the Jedi are. They are a culture/religion/family, and 10,000 is but a drop in the ocean of the galaxy. They are so small in the grand scheme of things that it’s SCARY when considering how easy it was for Palpatine to lead them to almost total annihilation) that try and try and TRY as hard as they can, which is apparently somehow NEVER enough, for the galactic citizens AND the SW fandom itself.

And why is that? Why is it so HARD for SW fandom to relate to them? Why does LH (who I’m sure in her head BELIEVES she’s as progressive as they come, just as I genuinely believe you had the best intentions when reaching across the aisle to send me this ask, but at the end of the day still comes across frankly exhausting and a little condescending when you pick out the “good Jedi blorbos” who are ones that deserve to live and don’t have to be dehumanized as “emotionless/cold/callous” like you just did with Luminara just became Luminara chose to grieve in a way you and Anakin and many other rabid Anakin fans/anti Jedi’s view as lesser than) view the Jedi as some type of “space cops” who are “oppressing 🙄” the Sith as a representation of her religious trauma that she is clearly projecting onto them as something completely separate than what the Jedi Culture actually is? Why does she view them as “emotionally repressed” and “almost catholic-like”, and views the fucking SITH (literal SPACE NAZIS 😭🤦‍♀️) as a representation for her persecution as a gay woman?

It’s because—just like MOST SW fans in the US—she cannot fathom a culture outside of the lens of western philosophy. In her mind, the Jedi aren’t a “real 🙄🤢” family. In HER mind, the Jedi aren’t necessarily evil, but she still believes those “poor little culty Jedi 😔💔🙄” didn’t see they were ‘sewing their own destruction’. (Which is blaming them. It’s BLAMING the victims of genocide, and it’s to this day the most disgusting thing I will always remember about the show’s “your actions will cause the destruction of every Jedi in the galaxy” quote that made Twitter go wild with genocide apologia galore).

I’m not gonna repeat everything in the post I made to the other anon (this ask response is long enough already), but I’ll link it here in case you want to read it, because I do have some examples screenshotted of certain SW fandom dehumanizing the Jedi and showing genocide apologia, which proves that pro Jedi’s critique/defensiveness for the Jedi Order and their culture isn’t an overreaction or without basis, because it proves that blaming the Jedi for their own genocide is the NORM, even if people won’t admit so outright (still can’t believe The Acolyte just outright SAID it. I’m not gonna rub fans’s of the show’s faces in it, but because of that line alone, I’m SO glad that show was cancelled. Anti Jedi propaganda is already bad enough).

Also, I’m sorry to tell you this, anon, but the Mace Windu thing is just straight up wrong. I have never understood this Mace thing with the fandom. People act like Mace was personally bullying Anakin every damn day. Mace didn’t even hate Anakin. Just because Mace was a little stern with Anakin and didn't worship the ground he walked on didn't mean he hated/disliked him/was jealous of him (a frankly childish notion, in my opinion). They both just had different views over how to be a Jedi and in battle strategies during the war. It was never personal with Mace. Anakin MADE it personal, because he always took not being told "yes" personally, like it was a slight against him. He didn’t see Anakin as a threat to the Republic until literally the last free day of democracy when he looked at him and saw a giant shatterpoint all around Anakin. I think that would give any Jedi pause. Lol.

Mace was a fine Jedi who treated Anakin just fine. Just because he didn’t worship the ground Anakin walked on or treated him like God’s gift doesn’t mean that Mace was a bad person or Anakin was a “poor little guy” getting bullied by him. The thing with Mace refusing Anakin a seat on the Council is overblown. Frankly: Anakin didn’t DESERVE a seat on the Council. He might’ve been a powerful Jedi, but he was still hot headed and reckless and still had a lot to learn. And his temper tantrum when he didn’t get his way did him no favors either (look, I LOVE Anakin, but I’m not gonna be delusional about his faults, okay? Most of his problems were caused because he built them up out of thin air. He built up this rivalry with Mace in his head, when Mace was busy with his own life. Mace was not “out to get Anakin” or something. That’s—as kindly as I can say—something children tell themselves when angry at parents who tell them “no”, which Mace did a lot with Anakin). And I’m not gonna lie, anon. People have always seemed extra hard on Mace specifically, and while it might not be all of it, I think there’s a part of racism mixed in there with a proud black Jedi that isn’t afraid to stand up to the white and emo and hot future serial killer in the making (my hot Anakin! 🥰��😂) I’m not saying YOU specifically are being racist, but I’m just pointing out something that I’ve always felt reeked around the fandom opinion of Mace (more from the SW YouTube dudebro side of the fandom, but still).

I’m not gonna go and explain a play by play of all my points, because I got in a argument/discussion with someone on YouTube the other day (even though I know it’s bad for my blood pressure 😬😤😂), and I feel like the points I made there are perfect as a main response for this ask, so I’m going to place the screenshots here. This whole online debate came about when I was watching a SW lore video on Leia visiting Anakin’s grave after the ROTJ celebration and telling him she doesn’t forgive him, and one of the commentators called her a “brat”, which pissed me off. Lol. But anyway, we’ve been going back and forth the past few days, and I’ve basically made a mini pro Jedi manifesto, so I think all of the screenshots will answer most of your questions and also refute them to show how they are inaccurate and more of a fandom opinion that’s only come about because fans like Anakin and want to twist themselves into knots to blame everyone for his problems but him.

Here are all of the online person’s screenshots: you’ll notice how eventually he tries to justify Anakin killing the younglings as a “mercy”. 🥶🥶🤢 Yikes.

-

Here are my screenshots:

Damn. Apparently there’s a screenshot limit. 😭 I’ll copy paste the rest:

Leia had every right to come and get closure if she needed to. Anakin personally tortured her himself after all. She has a personal stake in this through being tortured by their own FATHER that Luke doesn't have. Whether she wanted to go to make sure the person she viewed as a monster was dead, or to try and get some closure from what Luke had told her, it was within her rights to do so. She understood EVERYTHING perfectly. She knew who Anakin had been for years before the last five minutes of his death, and that was someone who'd terrorized the galaxy.

Lol, Anakin wasn't "fulfilling the will of The Force" as his reign on the Dark Side for 20 something years. He fulfilled the will of the Force when he finally got off his ass and killed Palpatine to end the last of the Sith. It's a copout to pretend any of his other actions were anything but his own choice, otherwise his 'redemption' means squat. She doesn't owe him anything just because he stopped the horror by killing Palpatine. It's the LEAST he could've done. You seem to believe that one action somehow should buy Anakin forgiveness in the eyes of all of his victims, and if they don't forgive them, then they're "brats" or something. Redemption doesn't work like that. You don't do the right thing because you'll get something out of it. You do it to be selfless and because it's simply the right thing to do. And I can tell you that Anakin would probably disagree with your opinion on Leia being a "brat" himself once he was back on the Light Side, because the whole point is that he'd be REPENTANT. Not being arrogant and expecting blind forgiveness for things that are quite frankly unforgivable.

Luke's forgiveness is a GIFT. It is NOT something that has to be the norm, and Leia is no less because she chooses not to forgive Anakin. She has every right to never view him as her father till her dying days.

Anakin had EVERYTHING to do with the explosion of Alderaan. This BS certain fans spout of "that was Tarkin" is nonsense. Anakin had agency. He could've tried to stop Tarkin or tried to leave the Empire way before that moment. Just because it was hard, he chose not to. EVERYONE on board the Death Star that weren't prisoners are responsible for the destruction of Alderaan. And yes, that includes Anakin. As I said before, Tarkin would only be given the highest sentence in court because he chose to order the planet destroyed. But Anakin would still be charged right along with him in a court of law. Just because Anakin had a traumatic life, doesn't excuse the things he's done. That's like saying a school shooter/serial killer has no agency over killing their victims just because they had a “hard life.” It’s a frankly illogical argument.

Anakin as 'Vader' could've choked Tarkin out right there. Who's gonna stop him? He's survived dozens of enemies in the comics. Him not having "authority" is a copout. Anakin was given plenty of authority in the Empire. He was just still Palpatine's lapdog at the end of the day. Hell—he could've grew a spine and left the Empire years BEFORE that moment. He does not get a free pass for "following orders".

Lol, Anakin does NOT have borderline personality disorder. That’s a fanon theory. That is NOT actually canon and George never said that. GL says Anakin fell because of his greed for power to never feel weak like he did as a child and because he was afraid to let go. The Jedi didn't fail him. He failed THEM. He's the one who fucking genocided them after all. Their entire culture is literally mental empathy because they're space wizards. There were times when Yoda and Obi-Wan all but BEG Anakin to open his mouth and say what's wrong, and he either refuses or is so vague that there's no way to glean what his main problem is (when Anakin talks to Yoda about Padmé and won't just ADMIT it's about Padmé). People can't help you if you don't meet them halfway. Anakin refused to do that. That's on him. Not on any of his victims. And even if he DID have borderline personality disorder (which is just a fanon theory), he'd STILL be responsible for his actions. It's amazing how much fans blame everyone else under the sun than the man who choked his wife. Lol.

I don't think Anakin is emotionless or incapable of care or goodness. That's the whole point of Luke, after all. I simply deny not giving him the agency to make his own decisions. He WAS a monster. What else do you call killing little kids who beg for your help? But the point of Luke is that Anakin ALWAYS had the opportunity to turn from his actions and be better. He just didn't find the spine until ROTJ. And that's great! He turned back to the light and his soul found salvation. But he is NOT redeemed in the eyes of anyone but Luke. It's laughable to think otherwise or that he wouldn't have been executed if he'd survived. And it's illogical to blame his victims and call them "brats" just because they won't forgive someone who was once basically space Hitler.

Despite what you may think, I love Anakin's character and the tragedy of him. I love that he found salvation in the end. But I DESPISE treating him like a child who didn't know what he was doing. He knew. He was selfish for twenty years. LUKE is who taught him how to be selfless. Everything else is on him. You can't call him the greatest 'redemption' of all time and then blame evervone else for his actions.

Because then what is there to redeem?

Nothing.

You can't have both. Pick one. 🤷‍♀️

What does it matter that Anakin as 'Vader' knew that Palpatine wouldn't praise Tarkin for such a cruel and useless thing in destroying a planet just to look a little tough? That doesn't mean shit. Just because Tarkin eventually gets what was coming to him, doesn't mean that Anakin couldn't have sped up Tarkin's demise right there. Good actions don't work like that: "Oh, it didn't really matter that he didn't try to save Alderaan! Because in the end Tarkin gets his karma!" (Anakin gets his karma too, by the way. You could argue from his burns or the fact that the only way he can 'redeem' himself is through dying by killing Palpatine).

I'm not sure what argument your making on if Anakin could've "talked" Tarkin into another way to get Leia to talk to betray the Rebels. I'm arguing that if he—or YOU—expected Leia's "forgiveness", then it implies there should've been some level where he could've done something different. I'm arguing he could've left the Empire years earlier if he'd grown a spine, or he could've Force choked Tarkin out right there and got him and Leia out of there somehow. Who's gonna stop him? No lowly soldier on board the Death Star could stand in his way. Palpatine would be miles away at that point.

He could've done something different. Fans just argue he was "helpless" in the sense that they don't want Anakin to be selfless to give anything up. The excuse that he was "stuck" and "had nothing left" is BS. Deep down, Anakin knows if he found Obi-Wan and repented that Obi-Wan would take him back. There's a whole arc about it in a comic when he's trying to bleed a Kyber Krystal. He just doesn't do it because he's too depressed and selfish to admit he screwed up his own life. He pretended for 20 years everyone betrayed him, when really it was the other way around, and that was too horrific to contemplate, so he pretended he was another person, when clearly he's still the same guy, only horrifically injured under the mask. He can only admit the truth after Luke offers him blind forgiveness.

It doesn't really matter that psychologists have "diagnosed" Anakin. He isn't a real person. He's a character that was written with a narrative purpose by GL. And GL was clear when he says the reasons Anakin does what he does is because he's greedy for power to not feel weak again and also because he's too afraid to let go. The writer of the character knows better actually. Isn't that what SW fans always say with GL?

Jedi are literally space Buddhists that GL describes as "empathetic space monks." Part of their culture is literally to be connected to all life around them. It's laughable to say they wouldn't understand a "simple person" in the galaxy. That's literally what they're taught to do in the Temple.

Before the war, they were Advisors/ mediators.

Anakin had a fondness for Qui-Gon, but he did trust Obi-Wan. Maybe not enough to mention Padmé (he didn't trust ANYONE with that except apparently Rex, and l'm almost certain Rex found out on accident, because Anakin definitely doesn't care about Rex as much as he did Ahsoka), but he DID trust him. And he cared for Obi-Wan greatly. Just not more than his own wants and needs apparently. But that's true when it comes to Anakin choosing himself over all of his friends and family at the end of ROTS. The Jedi would've helped Anakin if he'd just ASKED without being so damn vague. Maybe they wouldn't have let him stay in the Order, but it's not like he'd be kicked out the door immediately. But Anakin wanted his cake and to eat it too, so he didn't tell him about his wife because he wanted to keep the power of being a Jedi. And guess what? The Jedi don't OWE one man the power to change their entire culture just for him.

There isn't anything wrong with having a set of rules for beliefs. Priests can't marry either. That doesn't make them “emotionless robots” that are “incapable of understanding human emotion” or understanding a struggling man's thoughts. As I said before, the Jedi cannot help Anakin if he doesn't ASK. You cannot condemn them in one breath for not helping him, while at the same time saying that it's fine Anakin didn't explain his problems with them, because they should've just been able to read his mind. It's hypocritical.

Obi-Wan had no other options but to follow Padmé to find Anakin. He NEEDED to find Anakin, because Anakin was fucking dangerous at that point in time, and had just helped genocide an entire culture. Not exactly father/husband material at that point. And even then, in the movies Obi-Wan doesn't reveal himself until it's clear Anakin isn't going to listen to Padmé. It's ludicrous to think if Padme kept arguing with Anakin that Anakin still wouldn't have strangled her in anger in that moment. Again, it appears somehow you're trying to put off this transgression he's committed on someone else again, and I cannot fathom why. It makes him far less interesting that way if he was just a "poor guy" who couldn't control himself.

What I find interesting is you can admit that Anakin doesn't have the information the audience does, which is why he thinks Palpatine is kind and is his friend, but you show no grace towards the Jedi, calling them "arrogant" for not realizing the Sith had slowly popped back up, as if they are somehow supposed to have the audience's information. The truth is that they don't.

Just like anyone, they know the politicians of the Republic are slowly being corrupt (just like MOST politicians in real life, and you don't see everyone condemning all US citizens because we don't go clean them out like assassins or something), but there isn't anything they can do about that unless you expect them to go in and wave their lightsabers around to threaten the politicians into submission. As if Palpatine wouldn't immediately twist that into his favor to say they were "trying to take over the Republic". (And oh wait—he did that in the movies! 🤷‍♀️ Funny how that works, huh?)

It doesn't matter if Anakin didn't "want" to kill kids/the Tuskens/betray Mace and his Jedi friends. What does that matter? What does it matter if he felt bad while doing it if he still DOES it? You wouldn't say a school shooter wasn't responsible for their actions just because they were sobbing the whole time they went around slaughtering everyone in the school. Anakin's responsible for his own actions, and just because he might feel "bad" doesn't let him off the hook. Even when he was masquerading as 'Vader' Who cares if he was miserable 24/7? l’ll tell you his victims sure didn't when he decapitated them with his lightsaber or snapped their spines.

I'm not arguing about the people that forgave Anakin. I'm arguing over condemning people as "brats" that don't. (I personally think it's a copout to have Leia forgive him after reading some diary, so l'm glad at the least apparently new canon has her taking her entire life to get there). My point is there is nothing that makes Anakin's victims any less if they choose not to forgive him, because forgiveness is a GIFT. It isn't something you're owed. It's funny fans keep pretending he's owed that while condemning all of the Jedi as "arrogant", because I can't think of anything more arrogant than a man who was formerly one of the worst monsters in the galaxy thinking he's "owed" forgiveness. And just as I mentioned before, the Anakin after he came back to the Light wouldn't even agree with such a notion. He may ASK. But he wouldn't call Leia a "brat" for it. It's ridiculous to think that after the horror he'd personally committed to her.

I don't really care what your thoughts are on "Darth Mouse" as that's not what this conversation is about. GL describes Palpatine as the Devil, which is why Anakin can be turned back to the Light and Palpatine can't. But there is NO DOUBT that Anakin as 'Darth Vader' is seen as 'space Hitler' throughout internet culture (the Empire/the Sith is LITERALLY based off of Nazis). If you'd take a moment to google it you would see it's already a huge staple of internet culture. That doesn't make him emotionless or without goodness (he saved Luke, after all), but it IS still true. I don't see what's so hard about acknowledging his atrocities. He was a cruel and horrible monster for most of his life, and it only makes Luke's actions all the more miraculous when he somehow gets through to Anakin and makes him consider a heel face turn in the final hour.

Lol, honestly I also think you're a pretty strange person calling one of Anakin's torture victims a "brat" just because she didn't forgive him like dear saintly Luke. There is no shame in being kind like Luke (it helped him win after all), but there is NOTHING that makes Leia a bad person for not forgiving Anakin. I think you don't seem to contemplate just how BAD that is. Her FATHER tortured her for apparently HOURS. We have no idea just what he said and did to her during this time. He could've taunted her, for all we know. And I know, I know, you might say "He didn't know she was his daughter! 🤪🤪 " But that's not the POINT. The point is how he was cruel, and only seemed care when he realized she was his flesh and blood. Anakin's lucky Leia didn't spit on his grave. Because she WASN'T consumed by her anger to the point it was unhealthy. She just didn't forgive him and never viewed him as her father as long as she lived (because BAIL ORGANA was her father in all but blood). And that is within her rights. As I keep stating, Anakin is not OWED anything. His actions at the end of ROTJ are the LEAST he can do. He should be GRATEFUL to the opportunity Luke gave him and how Obi-Wan and Yoda were saintly enough to forgive him and help him become a Force ghost, because he quite frankly didn't deserve it. But salvation isn't always about what people deserve. Just like forgiveness, it's a gift. Anakin received a gift from Luke and Obi-Wan—but he is NOT owed it from Leia. And she isn't a "brat" for not giving it to him. It is important to stick to one's beliefs and principles. Leia stuck by hers. That takes courage and strength. She loved Luke but never agreed with him about Anakin.

And I also never called Anakin as 'Vader' a maniac. I called him basically a monster. Because he WAS. He helped kill thousands of people for Palpatine on the regular and continued to help genocide Jedi over the years, while ALSO still killing more kids over the years a handful of times too, even if he usually tried to avoid it (the Kenobi Show when he purposely snapped a kid's neck in front of his mother and dragged him through the street like garbage). Ironically, the more you learn and read about Anakin's atrocities, the more Luke's reaction becomes downright insane (while still saintly/miraculous), because NOBODY else (especially in real life!) would think someone like that had a heart deep down with a sliver of care left. That's what makes it miraculous Luke got through to him.

Lol, you cannot seriously be arguing that the maintenance workers on board the Death Star were "poor little guys." I don't know if you're aware of this, but even though there were probably volunteers, on the other hand, usually half the time in the military soldiers are ASSIGNED certain things like "mopping the floors" or "latrine duty" personally—so those people STILL were probably Empire officers. And even if they weren't, they still chose to be on the abomination known as the Death Star. Their sentence may be the lightest, but unless they were put there against their will they too would ALSO be charged. And also—with your argument—you're calling Luke's actions at the end of the Original Trilogy as a genocidal act or something, when really it was a necessary act to take out a planet destroying death machine. It's amazing how certain fans can try to twist things around to try and blame the heroes for something that is the villain's fault.

Here we go again with the excuses of "if only Mace wasn't mean to poor little Anakin" then Anakin wouldn't have had to murder everyone. Lol, is Anakin incapable of cognitive thinking? Because I promise you that if I was Ahsoka and heard that Anakin's reasoning for trying to kill me at one point in Rebels and betraying all of his friends is because a few people were "mean to him" I would just be pissed off at the gall of him to not take responsibility for his own actions. Even if a few people WERE mean to Anakin, that still doesn't give him the right to go on a murderous rampage. All his actions are still on him. That's like saying a school shooter is justified in his actions just because he was bullied. You calling Anakin a "Trojan horse" as if he planned any of that and wasn't just riding by the seat of his pants doesn't really make sense. Anakin didn't plan anything, and if you're arguing that BS theory that Anakin "balanced" the Force by genociding the Light Side to have it be even with the Dark Side (not true anyway since there were still more Light Siders than Dark Siders), then I am sad to say that you are objectively wrong. 🤷‍♀️

There is no way that "genocide is good, actually!" is the main theme GL had for a children's Trilogy. Anakin completed the prophecy when he finally got off his ass to kill Palpatine. He could've done that in Palpatine's office, or years down the line—either way, the outcome to complete the prophecy is the same: the eradication of the Sith. No more. No less.

Quite frankly, I think it's pretty gross to blame a culture for their own genocide, so the galactic community isn't doing itself any favors at that point anyway (including the SW community. It's always been a baffling fandom opinion to me). And despite what you and other fans may believe—the Jedi shouldn't have to CHANGE their entire culture/way of life for the sake of one man (Anakin) OR the galaxy's inhabitants who don't even TRY to understand them anyway (funny how Jedi are blamed for not understanding citizens, but what citizens try to understand them?).

They are not obligated to change their culture just for the right not to be murdered by a genocidal man on a temper tantrum.

Yeah, it's not surprising there were some among the population who "rejoiced" the fall of the Order. The war affected people's livelihoods and lives, and people get REAL greedy real fast when their day to day lives are affected by something. So yeah, it's no wonder they listened to Palpatine's propaganda to make the Jedi their scapegoat. Still pretty gross and disgusting, of course, but I can see how it came to be that way. Pretty ironic how people seemed to eventually miss the Jedi when they were gone, huh? It's not so fun dealing with an enemy (The Empire) when no space monk is standing protectively in front of you with a laser sword.

You DO know it's canon there were only 10,000 Jedi (not counting younglings and retired Masters) in a galaxy of TRILLIONS, right? It's illogical to expect them to be able to single handedly end slavery throughout the galaxy (especially in the Outer Rim where the Senate won't help them), or to expect them to be able to solve every damn problem in the universe like poverty (the lower levels of Coruscant). They helped people when they could. I don't know how, but you've seemed to have forgotten (just like most fans) that the Jedi ALWAYS tried to help. Even to the very end of their lives. It only makes it more gross to blame them for their own genocide. Lol, Luke barely knew shit about them except what he managed to scrounge up that hadn't been purged by the Empire (and a lot of that is from Legends authors, who didn't particularly like the Jedi anyway, so of course they'd write it like that and not as GL's vision of them being the heroes. The clones were treated terribly, and the Jedi did everything they could to make their lives easier (unless you'd prefer they sit on their asses out of the war to leave the clones under the command of people like Tarkin who didn't give a shit about them?), and it's illogical to blame them for the clones's plight. The SENATE are the corrupt ones and it's THEIR job to fix poverty and slavery and give the clones their rights. THEY are the actual villains of the prequels (besides the Sith), which is exactly what GL wanted to present to show the moral decay of democracy. And yet somehow people missed that and thought he was saying—"No, actually, it's the genocide victims who are wrong, guys!" when that couldn't be farther from accurate.

Dear LORD, here we go again with the excuses for Anakin's actions. Anakin "couldn't trust" Obi-Wan because of something kinda snippy/mean that Obi-Wan said when he was a TEENAGER?(The “pathetic life form/he’s dangerous line”, which he said when he was jealous/also—again—a teenager). Wow, way to hold a grudge. Lol. Doesn't that go against your whole argument about "forgiveness?" Didn't Obi-Wan's following actions towards Anakin then on in treating him like a brother show NOTHING about his care for him? Come on now. Let's be serious.

Why the hell WOULDN'T Obi-Wan go after Anakin? As stated beforehand, Anakin was DANGEROUS at that point, and needed to be put down. Anakin went against his fate to destroy the Sith, which put the prophecy on hold for a bit, so yeah, there was a "plan", which is why he lived, but that doesn't mean he wasn't dangerous and still didn't deserve to die at that point in time. He'd just killed kids like animals hours earlier. Again: not exactly husband/father material anymore.

Again, I feel like the implication here is that you're hinting that everyone misinterpreted the prophecy and that Anakin's fate was to bring "balance" by becoming a genocidal monster and "evening the score", and I am sad to say that you are objectively wrong. 🤷‍♀️ It's not accurate to state GL's original intent to a children's trilogy is that genocide to "even the score" was the correct answer. As stated again: Anakin completed the prophecy when he destroyed the Sith (ie; him and Palpatine). Full stop.

Hmmmm, you're doing a whole lot of speculation on how Leia "might" react if she was put in Anakin's situation, but not actually taking into account how everyone makes their own decisions and people can react differently to things at the end of the day. This just feels like another way you're trying to excuse Anakin's actions and condemn Leia for her bitterness towards Anakin just because: "Oh, if only that brat went what he went through! 🤪 " And such an argument—in the nicest way I can think possible—feels like the platitudes children tell themselves when angry at their parents. ALL of your and rabid Anakin fans's arguments are, because it all boils down to: "It wasn't HIS Fault! It was THIS person's! Because they were MEAN to him and he got BULLIED! And all his friends didn't understand him (even when it's obvious they reached out plenty of times and tried)!" It's just a very tired and frankly going in circles argument. You keep bringing up all these external factors as if the Jedi didn't try at all to offer Anakin coping mechanisms (Yoda literally offered them, and his advice—whether you or others want to admit it or not—makes sense. In war, you sometimes have to be prepared you might lose someone, and with the vague knowledge Anakin gave him, I'm pretty sure Yoda thought Anakin was talking about Obi-Wan. If Yoda knew it was about Padmé, no shit he'd probably have different advice). Anakin's life was not horrible at the Temple. He had a horrible childhood and that would fuck anyone's head up and leave a scar, but once at the Temple he was offered a whole range of different options to receive help. The only difference here is that you just don't AGREE with the Jedi's beliefs in how they go about helping people control their emotions so they don't lash out at people.

Maybe a few people (kids) at the Temple said a few things to Anakin that could be bullying (and I've only seen ONE comic related to that), but it's ridiculous to assume that the entire Jedi Order hated him. It's illogical to think that, and it's just like the childish notion fans have that Mace (who you call a "motherfucker" for... again, what? Treating Anakin like everyone else and not God's gift?) hated or was jealous of Anakin just because he didn't tell him "yes" all the time).

The point is, Anakin's life was fine at the Temple. Maybe he got a little isolated and lonely, but it's not like people didn't reach out. Anakin just had trouble reaching back. And all of those excuses don't let him off the hook for his genocidal actions, which you still seem to be twisting yourself into knots to try and do. THAT is childish. Not Leia judging Anakin for who he was when she had the misfortune of being tortured by him. You're plain lying to yourself if you think you wouldn't react just like Leia in real life. Most people are not gonna be wondering to themselves why the "poor little serial killer" did what he did to their family.

Just as stated before, Anakin honestly didn't deserve shit at the end of his life.

He'd betrayed everyone he'd ever known and thrown them all away (Rex, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan, Padmé, the Jedi/501st, R2, etc) like complete garbage. He helped genocide the Jedi—the very Order that took him in from slavery—and then spent those next 20 years hunting them down like animals, while also in his free time killing whoever Palpatine pointed him to like a lapdog just because he was depressed and pissed he'd screwed up his own life. He'd murdered thousands of kids at that point (literally monstrous and unforgivable for most people. Certainly me. Which only makes Luke's forgiveness more meaningful) and there is a comic where he hunted down a Jedi just for the sheer purpose of ripping his youngling out of the man's arms so he could let Palpatine turn the baby into an Inquisitor.

I am sure there are compilations on YouTube of all the people Anakin killed and the people he'd tortured or made jokes at while he smirked over their bodies. Come back and watch those and then tell me again he "deserved" to find peace. Lol, Anakin didn't deserve shit.

And I know that me saying that will probably make you think I hate his character. I don't. Anakin's character is very dear to me and I'm GLAD he found peace at the end of his life. I'm just under no delusions that he was "redeemed" in any sense of the word that wasn't in Luke's eyes alone or that Anakin actually "deserved" peace, when it should be completely obvious he deserved to be condemned to the farthest pits of Hell. As I keep repeating again and again: Anakin's 'redemption' and forgiveness are GIFTS. It's not something he is owed or something he even deserves. It's something he's given from the people around him who are quite frankly better people than he ever was in his entire life. Luke taught him how to be selfless at the end of his life. Because of his trauma as a slave, Anakin never wanted to do that beforehand from the fear of being weak again, no matter how many tried to help. But Luke did, and he succeeded with getting through to Anakin and making him finally get off his ass to make the right choice.

Again, The Force may have a "plan" but that doesn't mean people don't have free will. Otherwise, they'd all just be mindless puppets walking around spouting nonsense. That's just another copout to try and excuse Anakin's genocidal actions and say it wasn't his fault because it was his "fate". It wasn't. His fate was to destroy the Sith (and NOTHING else, despite what you apparently believe about a BS argument that I admit is common in fanon that Anakin "evening the playing field" was his destiny or something). He tripped and dragged his heels on that for twenty years before finally completing the prophecy in the final hour before his death. No more, no less.

It's childish to not take responsibility for your actions. It's why even though I love his character l'm not gonna treat Anakin like he was a "poor little guy" who didn't have a brain. He had options and a support system (Obi-Wan/Ahsoka/Padmé/Rex/R2/etc) he could've reached out to if he really wanted to. But he didn't because he just wanted to be told he was right. That's on him and no one else, as I keep saying over and over, despite how many excuses for him you try to bring up. I will repeat again: you give Anakin a lot of grace, but apparently none to Leia herself. Why is that? It feels pretty hypocritical. It also feels pretty hypocritical to judge and blame the Jedi in one breath saying they "lost their way (incorrect)", while in another breath embracing their very own beliefs on love and forgiveness. So, which is it? Do you think the Jedi had a wisdom and empathy for forgiveness, or do you think they "lost their way?" You can't have both and pick and choose based off how you want to excuse and justify Anakin's behavior.

Ahhhh, and THERE it is. See, I knew this gross argument (that I admit is a common fandom opinion) was hiding in there somewhere! I'm honestly not going to give this opinion much time, because at the end of the day you and everyone else who believe it are objectively wrong. 🤷‍♀️ You wanna know how I know that? Because it's genocide apologia. And at the end of the day, when you say the whole purpose GL made for Anakin's story and the theme of SW is that "genocide is good actually!", all I have to do to refute that is to remind you and others that this is a CHILDREN'S trilogy and from the words of GL himself; SW's main theme is about hope.

So because of that, this gross "theory" is shown for what it is: immoral, gross and just plain wrong genocide apologia. 🤷‍♀️ It's also just wrong in general, because Anakin killed all the Sith at the end of the Original Trilogy, and it's now canon more than two Light Siders were still alive at the time, so that would be "uneven scales" which goes against this immoral genocide apologia theory to begin with.

Ahhh, would you look at that! You've had the gall to bring up another gross argument similar to your earlier one (which is a common fandom one, I'll admit) that Anakin showed "mercy" to the younglings when killing them, when it's obvious that's incorrect and he didn't show them anything but cruelty. And now you're giving this type of similar gross argument that genocide survivors were "freed" from the "slavery" of their own culture! I gotta hand it to you, it's a common SW fan belief, but every time I hear it, I still get amazed at the gall of someone who truly believes this is accurate each and every time. Because it's obvious you don't agree with their culture (not saying I'd be a good Jedi either, but the point remains), which is why you think them being "freed" from their culture is better for them so the genocide survivors can make "real families" because you don't view the Jedi as family! Because you only believe in the basic family dynamic. So yeah, this opinion is also immoral and wrong obviously, because it tries to twist Anakin's and the Empire's genocidal actions as "benevolent" and "cleansing the Order for something new." Which is, again, genocide apologia, which proves you are wrong, because it's illogical that genocide apologia would be the theme of a children's trilogy about hope.

A lot of these things you bring up about Anakin and Palagueis are things l'm not even sure are actually canon anymore or if they're from Legends. Even if they are canon, these again are not excuses for his actions just because Anakin may have had a penchant for darkness. Even if he did, it's still his responsibility to learn how to control it and not hurt people. Many Jedi need to be guided on the right path to not follow evil, which is what the Jedi already did every day. With all of the thousands of Jedi trained and only a handful turning to the Dark Side, that seems like a pretty good record. The Jedi didn't "lose their way." This is a tired and BS argument that I admit Filoni has brewed the more GL gave him more leeway with SW, because Filoni doesn't view the Jedi as heroes in the right like GL did. There is nothing to show they lost their way just because they joined the war, because they literally were given that choice or sitting on their asses to watch the galaxy burn, and you bet your ass if they did that then Palpatine would spin it around to the public: "Look at how they sit in their ivory towers and watch you suffer under the Separatists's hands! 🤪🤪” So there is literally no way they can win here. If you're talking about how some of their methods got dirty (trying to mind trick the bounty hunter), firstly: they were literally trying to save their own children from being tortured! experimented on/enslaved, which I'm pretty sure gives them some slack (unless you're only willing to give that to Anakin?). Secondly, Anakin also got his hands dirty plenty of time in the war, and is conveniently not criticized by the fandom as much as the Jedi are. Ironic, huh?

Anakin could've told Obi-Wan anything and Obi-Wan would've helped him. Anakin knew that. Anakin just didn't want to risk losing his Jedi authority in the Order, because he didn't want to have to choose between a life with Padmé and being a powerful Jedi. If he cared about Padme completely selflessly, why didn't he just admit he was married and ask the Jedi to help Padmé and make sure she stayed alive through their Jedi healers? That was an option.

He literally risked Padme's life because he keeps sitting on the fence to try and have both. Because despite what you and some of his fans believe—Anakin isn't OWED both. He doesn't deserve everything in the world just because he is the oh so mighty "Chosen One/Hero With No Fear". A culture shouldn't have to change their entire way of life just for one man to continue being married and to have his cake and eat it too by staying in the Order. Even in real life, priests still aren't allowed to practice and be married. That doesn't mean they're being "repressed" or that they're under some type of horrible "slavery" to suppress their emotions. It's just the rules of that culture. If Anakin didn't like the rules of the Jedi, he should've just left after getting their help to keep Padmé and his kids safe. But he didn't because he wanted to keep both. That’s on him. Not his victims.

I mean, yeah, no duh the Jedi Order would’ve had some problems after killing Palpatine and having to prove they he was a Sith that acted on both sides of the war. Palpatine did that really well, but it’s a bit illogical to assume they wouldn’t eventually find evidence in his office somewhere or on his data files. He did the things he did by planning his schemes some type of way. And yeah, for some insane reason being a Sith Lord “wasn’t illegal”, but being controlling of both sides of the war IS, which they could’ve proved after a while. So, if you are trying to argue that Anakin’s actions were for the “better” because it would’ve been too “hard” for the Jedi otherwise—you are still objectively wrong this way. 🤷‍♀️ It’s also just another way to try and excuse Anakin by pretending his actions that day on the final day of freedom of democracy didn’t matter, when it’s obvious that they very clearly did. If Anakin hadn’t cut off Mace’s hand, the war would’ve been won. Therefore, everything that goes bad in the galaxy is legit Anakin’s fault. 🤷‍♀️ Of course Palpatine has the highest blame because he’s the mastermind, but betrayers/backstabbing is always a worse breed of crime, because it always comes from a friend, which is what Anakin was to the Jedi/Obi-Wan/Ahsoka/Rex/Padmé/501st. He legit ruins all of his friends’s lives with that one swing to cut off Mace’s hand. Trying to paint it as anything else is simply incorrect, and takes away from his ‘redemption’ at the end of the Original Trilogy by trying to pretend he’s a “poor little guy” who had no choice.

Anakin could’ve “defeated” Palpatine multiple ways. Just as I mentioned before, just because The Force had a “plan” doesn’t mean that everyone was puppets walking around on a string, because then free will wouldn’t exist. Anakin could’ve helped defeat Palpatine in his office that day in Revenge of The Sith by either taking the swing himself or either standing back and just letting Mace finish the job. He’s still The Chosen One that way, because his choice is still literally the defining action that saves democracy that way. He also could defeat him the way he does in the Original Trilogy, which is taking him by surprise to save Luke by throwing him down the reactor shaft to kill Palpatine. Either way gets the job done. He doesn’t need to physically fight Palpatine to get it done himself. He’s just the catalyst for what happens to the galaxy because of HIS choices alone, which proves how he has agency and understood why all his actions were wrong and just didn’t care. He didn’t need Luke for that in Palpatine’s office. All he had to do was grow a spine and let Mace take the final swing. He failed to do that and doomed the galaxy for twenty years because of it. 🤷‍♀️

Ahhh, there you go again with the gall to pretend that what Anakin did was “mercy” for the younglings just because the imperials would’ve done horrible things to them too! Gotta hand it to you, one has to have a lot of nerve to believe such an argument such as this (which I acknowledge is a common opinion among rabid Anakin fans), but it’s still gross and hilariously wrong every time I hear it repeated. So, just as I stated to you before: you and anyone else who has this opinion is WRONG, because obviously Anakin murdering little kids like animals is not a mercy. Anyone with any type of heart and soul should be able to realize that. What Anakin did is not and will never be a “mercy”. It was a cruel and dehumanizing act towards kids who were begging for his help. What would ACTUALLY have been mercy is what I stated before: Anakin snapping out of it to save the kids and lead them out of the Temple to save their lives. THAT is mercy. The only reason you continue to spout this BS argument that is common among rabid Anakin fans in to try and twist yourself into knots to deny Anakin agency and pretend he had “no choice” but to kill the kids for “mercy”, when it’s clear that this opinion of yours and anyone else who believes it is gross, immoral, and just plain wrong. 🤷‍♀️ It’s as simple as that.

Anakin WAS taught to understand, accept and manage his emotions correctly. That’s LITERALLY what “control” means: MANAGING your emotions so you don’t lash out at people in your anger, which is what the Jedi always warned their members against doing. The only difference here is that you just don’t agree with their beliefs, and are inadvertently portraying them as a culture who “suppresses” their emotions, when from the movies and TCW show it’s obvious that you and anyone who has this opinion is wrong. 🤷‍♀️ There are literally scenes that show it’s about being MINDFUL of your emotions so you don’t let them control you. Not to pretend they don’t exist. Anakin had all of these Jedi teachings available to him. The only difference is that he thought he was above the rules and that they didn’t apply to him. All of which eventually but him in the ass, because he refused to listen to anyone and be told “no” without getting angry.

Qui-Gon was kind to Anakin, and Anakin had a fondness for him, but it is NOT canon that if Qui-Gon lived Anakin wouldn’t have fallen. That’s just a fanon theory that fans pretend is canon. You know how I know this? Because if you look it up, George Lucas straight up SAYS in interviews that Qui-Gon living wouldn’t have changed anything for Anakin not falling to the Dark Side. The “Duel of the Fates” is just what the song writer titled the song as a metaphor for the fight between light and darkness, but that doesn’t mean that because Qui-Gon died it was impossible for Anakin to grow a brain and a conscience and make choices of his own. GL literally knows better, because he’s the writer, which is what SW fans always say, right? Because anyone that believes that Qui-Gon dying “sealed Anakin’s fate” is simply using it as another copout/excuse for Anakin’s actions to pretend like all of his choices weren’t his own fault. Obi-Wan was a fine teacher for Anakin, and just because he wasn’t perfect didn’t mean he “failed” him. The truth is that Obi-Wan did everything he could, but Anakin refused to accept Obi-Wan’s help half the time. That’s on him and nobody else. He failed Obi-Wan. Not the other way around. Obi-Wan only thinks he “failed” Anakin out of misplaced guilt because he’s a better person than Anakin could ever hope to be who actually felt guilt for his actions, when Anakin in turn during that time at least felt nothing but entitlement and anger towards friends who wouldn’t join him on the Dark Side.

Dooku also doesn’t have any room to talk. He might’ve noticed corruption in the Senate, but the second Dooku joined the Sith and the Separatists and started helping enslave planets and killing people, he lost all credibility and became a big old hypocrite, just like Anakin became after ROTS.

So far, every single opinion you have given is just one excuse after another for Anakin’s actions to try and put the blame on someone else (usually the victims of his genocidal atrocities). And all of them are incorrect and immoral and wrong. 🤷‍♀️ Because half of it is genocide apologia or trying to twist Anakin’s actions from killing the younglings as “benevolent mercy”, when that is obviously WRONG and the biggest copout I have ever heard in my life. You also try to excuse Dooku’s actions, which is also wrong, because Dooku is a literal war criminal at the end of ROTS, so all of his opinions mean squat at that point, because he’d become the very thing he’d hated at that point, just like Anakin would eventually come to be from his own shitty choices. Therefore, every single thing you have brought up is not “facts.” It is simply an opinion that has become huge in fandom spaces because people like Anakin’s character and are biased against him and want to pretend he was a “poor little guy” who couldn’t make decisions, when it is clear there were a million other decisions he could’ve made.

I will then bring this around back to my original point: Leia Organa is not a “brat” for choosing not to forgive someone who was once one of the biggest monsters in the galaxy who TORTURED her (her own flesh and blood FATHER) just because Anakin might’ve had a hard childhood or a few people “being mean to him.” She doesn’t owe him anything, because specifically everything that had gone wrong in the galaxy up to that point was ANAKIN’S fault, and it is the LEAST he can do to kill Palpatine and fix it, so she doesn’t owe him anything for him killing the Emperor either. It’s great Luke found it in his heart to forgive Anakin, but it will NEVER be acceptable to call Leia a “bad person” for not forgiving Anakin, who is canonically the space Hitler (proven) of the Star Wars galaxy. She doesn’t owe him shit, and again: Anakin is lucky she didn’t spit on his grave.

Again: this doesn’t mean I hate Anakin’s character. But unlike you, when I like a character, I don’t need to excuse their every action to pretend they are “poor little guys.” Anakin was a horrible monster for most of his life, but I’m still GLAD he found salvation and peace in the afterlife. But he did NOT deserve it. He deserved to be condemned to the farthest pits of Hell, and I am under no delusions about that. He’s lucky the people around him (Luke, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka) are far better people than he ever was while he was alive and were able to find it in their hearts to offer him forgiveness, because he never showed them that same kindness or grace, and obviously didn’t deserve their love or loyalty. It makes it all the more saintly that they gave it to him.

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As you can see, there’s a lot of genocide apologia in this guy’s arguments (literally disgusting), and there were times I got a little snippy (it gets frustrating defending genocide survivors over and over), but for the most part, I tried to be polite, because I wanted all my points to remain strong. If you are willing to listen to my perspective, I think you can admit some of his arguments echo your own, even if you’re obviously not as blunt and frankly gross about it as him.

Take the show The Acolyte, and how it’s supporters argue that it’s only “critiquing” the Jedi and showing them as “flawed”, which is what you wanted to get at when you sent this ask, no? To “make sure that in discussing the Jedi we remember the good and bad.” Well, my response is… why is that needed? You’ve seen all my points and examples about how being anti Jedi is the larger fandom opinion and how Order 66 is quietly thought to be partly “their fault”, which is literally one of the grossest opinions to have and I’ll never sugarcoat that. So, why is it NEEDED to point out their “flaws” with every post on how they didn’t deserve their genocide? Why does that matter? Why can’t it just be agreement: the Jedi didn’t deserve to be slaughtered like animals? Why is it “oh, but we must remember that they were flawedddd and complacenttttt. 😔💔 After all, if only they just hadn’t been mean to poor Anakinnnn. Then he wouldn’t have been ‘forced’ to help murder them all. 😔💔” Like… do you not HEAR how condescending that sounds? 😭🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Why do the Jedi have to be the “perfect victims” for fans, otherwise they either “deserved what they got” or were “arrogant” and “brought it on themselves?” Why aren’t the MURDERERS/BETRAYERS blamed for the collapse of a galaxy (Anakin and Palpatine), when THEY were the ones responsible and who pulled the trigger? The point is that it’s frankly just weird how much certain fans bring up that “oh, don’t forget they were flawedddd! 🤪🤪🤪” on a post that is mourning the loss of their culture. I promise you that your “special little blorbos” Kanan and Ahsoka (the REAL her that hasn’t become Filoni’s mouthpiece) would probably not enjoy the way you describe them as “oh, but YOU’RE one of the good ones!” And I say that with all the politeness I can manage.

Funnily enough, the writer of The Acolyte, LH, kind of echoes your sentiments, which just aren’t as “benevolent” as you may genuinely believe. In her show, there’s no DEPTH or honestly real THEMES of SW put into the show. It’s all flipped around to the Dark Side being “liberating”, which is so far from true it’s literally laughable. 😭😒 And I’m getting ticked off that when genuine criticism from pro jedi fans come up, somebody just HAS to say—“This show is just portraying the Jedi as not perfect! 😌” 😬😤🫠 And I swear I’m gonna lose it one day, because it portrays the Jedi as more than imperfect. It portrays them as emotionally repressed, barely competent “space cops”. 🙄 (Fucking HATE that term antis use for them so much, because it’s what they argue about saying the Jedi ‘deserved’ their genocide because they’re an ‘institution’ and not a “real” family. 😬😬🤬🤬 Ohhhh, I’m gonna go off on someone one day. Lol.) And these are just my frustrations. It’s not personally directed at you at the moment, anon. It’s just me kind of venting all my thoughts on this post.

I even had a fairly decent comment on my tumblr post about my critique of The Acolyte from a fan trying to save it, and they basically said the same thing and that it’s from the Sith perspective so it’s skewed. But it’s not. 😭😭 Because the showrunner’s views literally mirror the villain’s and then they become her mouthpieces. The show is completely anti Jedi while trying to pretend in a condescending way that it’s only Jedi critical in a way like—“Ah, those poor little culty Jedi. 😔😔💔 Some had good hearts… but their culture doomed them to be wiped out… 😔💔” 😒🙄😤🤬

I just… fucking HATE that show. 😭 SO much. And I know certain fans loved it, so I apologize if people enjoyed at least certain parts, but I’ve read a tumblr post that broke down the show really well and how hollow it is. The characters barely have time to interact and get to know one another before they’re all killed off (Yord and Jecki and Sol, who were fan favorites), until only Osha and Quimir remain—because at the end of the day, THAT’S what this whole stupid show was about. 😭🤦‍♀️ It was about a Reylo fanfic writer getting to play in her sandbox.

Anyway, my point is I don’t think you’re “anti Jedi”, anon. I think you’re “Jedi critical”, yes. But not in the benevolent way you believe. I think you are unknowingly being benevolently condescending in the way The Acolyte tries to be by saying, “Ooohhh, those poor, culty Jedi. 💔😔😔😔 If only they weren’t so emotionally repressed like robots (dehumanization)… maybe then they could’ve changed their culture so they didn’t have to be ‘cleansed’ for a ‘better galaxy’. 😔💔💔” It’s just… stuff like that. 😭🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️ Which is… SO exhausting for us pro Jedi fans to hear over and over and over like it’s a valid take, when it’s just really not. But I wanted to explain my thoughts in a way I hope was mostly polite. I probably sound a little bit snippy, but it’s just because I’m frustrated at having to defend genocide victims again. That’s all.

I guess I would just… encourage you to rethink your thoughts? Because when you take into account what the Sith/Empire represent (Nazis) and then what the Jedi genocide is a metaphor of… your ‘argument’ looks less and less cute. 🤷‍♀️😭 I’m just saying. Some may not like me comparing it to real life, but there are plenty of Asian fans/aroace fans/Jewish fans that heavily relate to the Jedi for this very reason, and I refuse to allow their opinions to be silenced, because fiction is for everyone, and SW has ALWAYS been political, which means it’s literally MADE to be compared to real life.

Anyway, I hope this long meta post maybe changed some minds, if not your own. I’m gonna leave links to other big pro Jedi blogs that have better and more organized meta posts than me about this stuff, where they go in depth explaining how the Jedi are the good guys and how what happened in the Prequels was never about “the genocide victims are in the wrong, actually!” and was more about the SENATE becoming corrupt and rotting democracy from the inside out, which made it so easy for Palpatine to slither into power. 10,000 Jedi aren’t gonna easily change that. But the politicians CAN. They were just too selfish to do so. The Senate/Sith are the real villains of the Prequel trilogy. Not the Jedi (literal genocide victims). Anything less than viewing it like this is just… wrong. 😭🤷‍♀️

Here are the big Pro Jedi meta blogs I talked about:

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Tags:

@ensomnia

@heartfairy

@fangirlteallie

@shoniwake

@lemons-to-limes

@lexskiss

@spidersaye

@selenaftmarvel

@silverwoodj

@ajtaals

[goodverbsonly]

Star Wars: The Clone Wars

Essays who? (Yes, you read that right, essays plural.) I have to talk about what is right now my favorite Star Wars novel, a book I read in two days after I bought it for Kindle on a whim on Monday night as I was, yes, trying to right my essays.

But I’m a Clone Wars kind of girl, and so this book. It gets me. I mean it really gets me. God, it’s like Karen Traviss reached right into my brain and pulled out exactly what I wanted out of a Star Wars novels years and years and years before I was ever even going to consider reading a Star Wars novel. Yet, here we are.

I’ve got some problems with it, of course, but I don’t want to start with that, so let’s just dive right in.

First of all, all Star Wars books read like middle grade books, for good reason; if it doesn’t read like it would be an easy read for kids between 4th and 9th grade, something enjoyable, manageable, but still challenging in some places, it would be for the wrong audience. I am a 21 year old English Major, but most of what I read and find “challenging” is dense and boring. Most YA is dramatic beyond comprehension. The language and the story in The Clone Wars is suitable for the reading level, and, it does a good job keeping pace with the movie. I for one, LOVE The Clone Wars movie (I love Anakin, I would do anything for him) but a lot of “problems” that the movie have are fixed in the book. Towards the end, the pacing gets strange, stranger than in the movie, and feels rushed. I wished we could have spent the time we did describing the Huttlet’s smell with Anakin having to confront Jabba. Also, a lost opportunity in having Anakin confronting Jabba from Jabba’s point of view instead of Anakin’s.

That’s also a problem I have with Star Wars novels I have in general. Except for Ahsoka, they all switch perspectives at least once a chapter. Wild Space and ROTS don’t do it as much as this book, which has two perspectives a chapter, but I remember when I was reading A New Dawn, this also being something that annoyed me. But unlike with A New Dawn, I had more than one perspective to look forward to.

Anakin’s was so wonderful. And I loved Rex’s. Ventress was good to start, but I grew weary of her. I wouldn’t have included Jabba’s at all, and umm, Obi-Wan was in the movie enough to at least get a couple of paragraphs devoted to his perspective. Palpatine was, as always, delightfully evil.

Before I get to GUSHING about Anakin, let me just say, one thing I really really really enjoyed about this book was how tired it made me. Rex’s narration was beautiful. It had a lot of his personality -actually a lot more of his personality than the show ever had the time to give us. He and Anakin both gave us a gritty look at what the Clone Wars were like, without verging on the grimdark that would make Star Wars unbearable. I laughed when Rex made a joke about taxes of all things, and Anakin saw Padme and thought “It’s Padme! That’s my wife! Padme” and when Ahsoka immediate realized that Anakin and Padme were a thing. It’s got emotional weight without being soul crushing, without crushing the utter ridiculousness of Star Wars. It’s a hard thing to balance, but this book does it.

Anyway Anakin right? Like right out of a fanfiction right? Like, I paid $10 for a fanfiction. I paid $10 for one of my fanfictions. Like. The very beginning, the first battle that occurs at the start of the movie, I literally felt like I was reading a well-edited version of my own fanfiction. Anakin spends a lot of his time in the novel dissociating, thinking about his mother, and generally having a nervous breakdown, and I am not complaining. It was Anakin’s narrations that gave the book a lot it’s emotional weight and made a lot of the action bearable to get through. The show doesn’t have the time or the audience to really devote time to having Anakin work through what he did on Tatooine during aotc, and also it’s obvious he doesn’t, but this novel was, in a lot of ways, really about that. If you think about the timeline of tcw, this book takes place right up against Episode II (which means Wild Space must take place not very long after it; hey! aren’t my boys still injured here?). These wounds are still fresh, and Anakin spends a lot of time worrying about if he’s a killer. At one point Ahsoka kills a droid, and Anakin has a moment. It never felt weird, or too much. Anakin spends a lot of his time worrying about Ahsoka while still testing the waters with her. Anakin spends A LOT of time angsting about Hutts, which also felt appropriate. At one point Anakin thinks that to get out of a situation alive he would need a lot of speed, a lot of nerve, and a lot of skill, and notes that he’s severely lacking in one of these. (In retrospect,  it’s probably supposed to be speed, but it reads a lot like nerve, because he is actively suppressing a panic attack at this point.) He loves and cares about his men (especially Rex DO NOT EVEN START), while lecturing Ahsoka about the Realities of War, and Anakin comes to the same conclusion that I did two years ago: HE’S TWENTY AND NEEDS A NAP.

I might be biased, but if there was anything else the narration could have given me from Anakin it would have just been more time. It dealt with a lot of the things my poor kid was dealing with at the time, the Ethical Situation of the Clone War and How Anakin Fit Into That, and a lot of time devoted just to Anakin’s Dramatics.

I would say a lot of my complaints are genuinely Obi-Wan centered. As in: Not Enough Obi-Wan (he was spectacular when he was around, obv), also that Anakin continously refers to Obi-Wan as Kenobi which is Dumb As Hell.

Other than that, the novel takes a clear anti-Jedi position, the one that I see floating around tumblr all the time, and while yes the Jedi were obviously stupid as hell for not obviously noticing the Palpatine was the sith lord, and yes, they maybe could have made sure Anakin was okay instead of just throwing a clearly traumaized teenager into battle and making him an officer and then giving him a 13 year old padawan to be responsible for (and oh yeah, how do you feel about rescuing a hutt, kid?), but they didn’t deserve to die, the Republic was corrupt, but it wasn’t any more or less corrupt than the CIS. I wouldn’t have even noticed, except that I spent about a year and a half on the anti-yoda bandwagon, and then I hopped the fuck off of it, because Yoda -doesn’t deserve any of this shit. (That’s an opinion for another day and one I came to by accident.) Ventress’ narration pretty much fell into this trap as well, for me. I liked her, but her insistence began to make me uneasy. I can’t really remember, even after getting her backstory in the show, ever feeling like she really had it out for the Jedi and more like she just wanted to cause like a lot of destruction and also she wanted Dooku to like her and be her teacher.

Would I recommend this particular Star Wars novels? Yes, absolutely! If you like tcw this book is for you. If you like Anakin’s Dramatics then this books is for you! If you love the Clones and Captain Rex, then this book is for you, only prepare to have your heart crushed.

NOW: If anyone wants to rec me Star Wars novels in the future, I would be VERY HAPPY to hear them, especially if they have Clones, Anakin, or Ventress. If anyone also has any FIC they’d like to rec me, then I would be happy to read that, also.

[izzyovercoffee]

RepComm for the fandom meme

send me a fandom and I’ll — meme

softly, with a lot of feeling: I’ve been waiting for this moment.

lmaoo not really but yes, yes really. I am here and I am ready for this. 

Thank you for sending this B’)

Republic Commando

the character i least understand

Karen “What Is Abuse I Don’t Know Her″ Traviss

Ko Sai. I think, for the most part, she was written with very alien motivations, and it was fairly successful, at least in conveying that it was difficult if not impossible to relate with her on any level. 

I’m sure if I spent more time thinking and writing about her I could maybe attempt to understand her character … but for the most part I don’t really “get” her, and I think that’s the point.

interactions i enjoyed the most

Mereel and Ordo are endlessly entertaining. 

Any of the Nulls together, individually or clusters or all six in one room.

Mereel and Etain have had some very, very touching, emotionally deep moments — the kinds of scenes KT generally doesn’t allow any of her characters to have between two characters that aren’t romantically involved.

tbh this list is gonna be very long so to sum up: everyone with everyone else, when they’re allowed to be individual characters with separate personalities and motivations recognized, instead of twisted into very specific moral representations that KT pushes towards the end.

the character who scares me the most

Walon Vau is reasonably frightening, though really he should be. He is about as cold blooded of a killer as you’re going to get, and he doesn’t make threats, he makes promises. B’) 

Plus he’s also very difficult to get into the mental space to write, because he’s a legitimate Bad Person, and trying to write characters like him can be difficult.

it’s also a good idea to maintain a healthy fear of the nulls, if only out of respect of their potential for sudden and extreme violence. They’re not as “unpredictable” as the text says, though.

the character who is mostly like me

mmm … actually, I’m gonna go with Kal. this is probably gonna garner some “whaaat? but you HATE him?” 

Yes, I do hate him. but let me list some similarities lmao:

perpetual limp due to a bad ankle and persistent injury that never healed right / properly (partially kept as a constant reminder for a mistake)

short and angry, like all the time

compartmentalize everything and everyone

obsessive about caring for and protecting family, literally does everything for family

extremely secretive, to the point of never telling anyone the full story or full truth, everyone just get bits and pieces that seem complete. no one ever seems to realize this.

self sacrificing to the point of martyrdom, especially for family

these are all pretty negative, but … unlike Kal, I am actually self aware lmao and am working on these things, and have for the most part listened when other people criticize me so that I can continue to work on being better. it’s a daily process, you know, so I don’t hurt the family I care so much about.

Kal starts off terrible, and the writing implies that he might learn from it … but then instead of him learning and growing like everyone needs him to, the narrative instead makes excuses for him, everyone suffers, and Etain dies.

it’s unfortunate bc people like him exist, and you can’t coddle them if you want them to survive life. and yet everyone coddles Kal. Fandom, in general, coddles and makes excuses for abusive men. Full stop.

but like, here’s the thing:

He is a grown man. He is not a child. Don’t treat him like one.

I hate him partially bc the entire fandom excuses his behavior when it is, ultimately, inexcusable. He is not a child. He is a man, who has undertaken a huge group of extremely vulnerable people under his care, and he ultimately hurts them all. Severely. And TBH Kal deserves better than to be coddled and all his boo-boos kissed away by a fandom who says they care about the rest of the clan, but cannot see the sheer world-shattering damage Kal committed on them, regardless of intention. 

You can like a character, and still hold them accountable. Fandom, somehow, seems incapable of this level of nuance, especially if they’re a father and shown as sympathetic in any way.

hottest looks character

Mereel, obviously. lmao

No but like, consider: he dyes his hair (and his skin, and his eyes) and has a full wardrobe for all situations. 

He’s the (Daniel Craig) James Bond of the Grand Army of the Republic.

But I also headcanon Jilka and Besany to be incredibly fashion forward. Besany usually embodying the Career Professional woman, with very sharp, very perfectly tailored outfits that allow no room for nonsense.

Jilka also perfectly tailored, though her wardrobe is potentially more fun, visually, and incredibly flattering in all the right ways — but still very sharp, and very much professional when necessary.

one thing i dislike about my fave character

Mereel, light of my life, sun of my sky, salve of my wounded and broken heart, peace at the eye of my storm …

why are you like this?

lmao. On a more serious note, I can’t outright say I dislike anything about Mereel, but his inability to share what really goes on in his head with … well, anyone. The only time we see a truthful admittance to weakness is that single moment with Etain, when he admits that he’s still human. That he’s not perfect.

Every other time, and I know I say this a lot, but every other time … he deflects any serious conversation with a joke — and usually a joke that the speaker wants to hear (even if they don’t know they want to hear it). He doesn’t let anyone in, not even his brothers, and that’s … got to be a lonely sort of suffering. 

The kind of internalized suffering I’m sure he’s learned from Kal, both in the how to do it, and the reason he does it. bc Kal does internalize a lot of his suffering and doesn’t share it, burying weakness while in the same breath saying that he’s experiencing it and letting it go. He doesn’t, it’s just a different sort of self-delusion and deflection, and Mereel echoes it to a painful degree.

And then, of course, there’s Mereel learning that he needs to do it, bc Kal only accepts a certain kind of visual presence of mental illness and suffering, otherwise the person is “damaged” in some way and will never be “okay” for whatever understanding Kal has given okay. (view, for example, how he sees Ordo vs how he sees Mereel. He sees Mereel as stable, bc Mereel is extroverted, outgoing, and “always positive.” It’s not something intentional, but it’s still damaging, to all parties.)

one thing i like about my hated character

I might hate Kal Skirata, but I also love him. He’s a fantastic character. He is so so so flawed. His flaws make him interesting, and he tries. He tries so hard. He cares so much. He cares too much, even. His dedication and his love for his family are all encompassing, to the point that he can even be blinded to their faults because he loves so strongly.

But that love is a sword. One might even say it’s a triple-edged blade.

Love, as bright and fierce and consuming as it is, does not make someone right. It does not make their actions excusable when it leads to hurt, or even someone dying needlessly. It does not make one’s choices correct.

Love does not excuse abuse. And I really wish fandom would, at the very least, make the attempt to understand that.

a quote or scene that haunts me

Yes, I know how the Kaminoans did it. They used our genes against us, the ones that make us bond with our brothers, make us loyal, make us respect and obey our fathers—that’s what they manipulated to make us more likely to obey orders. They had to remove what made Jango a selfish loner, because that makes a bad infantry soldier, and you can tell from the Alpha ARCs that the Kaminoans weren’t wrong. But there’s one thing I don’t know yet—and that’s how they controlled the aging process. That’s the key. They robbed us of a full life span. But we will not be defeated by time, ner vod.

—ARC Trooper Lieutenant N-7—Mereel—in an encrypted transmission to Captain N-11, Ordo

a death that left me indifferent

mmm, Sev, actually. Like, in the game? I went through the whole grieving process after I finished Republic Commando. 

The way it was written? idk. It did nothing for me.

This probably is an unpopular opinion lmao but honestly, that scene? did not hit me anywhere. it just kinda left a bad taste in my mouth … much like Etain’s scene, except that I was actually pissed off about Etain lmao to the point that I still rant about it bc of how little sense it made.

a character i wish died but didn’t

I mean I could go the obvious route and say Kal, but I actually don’t wish Kal died. I just wish he’d learn from his mistakes and people would point out how he’s hurting his family lmao?

who do I actually wish died? any of the nulls, even if they don’t die die. They’re presented as these entirely Untouchable cast, to the point that no one really expect any of the Nulls to so much as get a paper cut — because how can they? they’re presented as close to perfect (obviously not in the mental illness department, but they do inhabit this space of being invincible).

and for any of them, even temporarily, to die would have had incredible emotional impact — moreso than Etain’s. It would’ve really brought home the threat on all their lives in a way that Etain’s death could never convey. 

but I’m asking nuance of a writer who clearly overwhelmed herself with a cast much larger than she could handle in writing, and who started all these incredible thematic arcs only to abandon them, forgotten, over the course of the series.

my ship that never sailed

I have a lot of ships, tbh, but it’s kinda like … weird? to talk about? as if I expected them to sail and then they just simply didn’t. 

I don’t have any ships that I expected to happen or be recognized and simply didn’t. I mean … Fi read as if closeted, so I was kind of hoping he would maybe realize he was attracted to men, but then of course he was paired off with his caretaker, and my god there are so many consent problems with that. 

[gffa]

Ooh now I’m curious about your issues with Karen miller’s writing!

Hi!  I haven’t done a full reread in awhile (especially since I settled into my views on the canon and the themes of SW and characterization, etc.) so I can’t pick out specific quotes, but in general she tends to do a lot of “attachment = love” or “the Jedi aren’t allowed to have feelings/they’re repressed”, despite writing them as generally pretty good people and that I think it comes from a place of “I really want to write emotional whump, so I need them to be repressed to write the iddy stuff I enjoy”, which, you know, I don’t feel is coming from a bad faith place, even if I disagree with it! Wild Space is forever my favorite SW book because there’s a ton I really love about it (it’s the single most quotable SW book, I really enjoyed the conversation Bail and Obi-Wan had, I thought the Padme stuff was actually excellent, given the looming context of ROTS and what that says about her narrative unreliablity, etc.) but it’s also a book that I don’t feel like it earned its ending, it felt like two separate books stitched together, etc. Miller’s writing (for me) tends to be very “I wrote this to please my id” and I’m usually pretty onboard with that (whether or not my id matches the author’s) except that I don’t think it’s particularly true to the canon and, when you’re writing an official tie-in novel, there’s a certain level of putting aside your own id that should be done that I’m not sure I agree was done here. So, I’m not ready to chuck them out the window, like a I do with Karen “you’re thinking like a Nazi if you disagree with me about how the Jedi deserved genocide” Traviss (and also her IRL really bad politics she supports), but neither can I say that they’re my favorite.  But I don’t object to others loving on the books, because honestly I get it, they have some amazing stuff in them (or sometimes people just, you know, disagree with me about how Miller’s writing comes across and that’s understandable, too!), so it’s not like I’m holding a grudge or anything.  I just personally tend to see them as “some of the most fun SW books ever, but not ones I take particularly seriously because I think she gets the Jedi wrong sometimes”. (To be fair, she also is the one who gave us the amazing, “Only a fool or a troublemaker think the Jedi are baby thieves.” so you know I love her for that, too!  I think she’s coming from good faith, I just disagree a bit.)