#s5 is like a perfect example of that

[lambmotifz]

i love how dean canonically never feels guilty about doing fucked up things to sam not only because he thinks he owns sam and that he’s the only one who has the right to hurt him but also because he genuinely believes he does it for sam. it’s one of his most delicious character traits

[tenderjock]

thinking about buffy's morality system and how it lowkey makes more sense than the morality of most tumblr users in the b/tvs fandom tbh

[bugsandboos]

tsurugi’s influence in revelator: let’s talk about it

something i noticed while watching revelator was the underlying implication that ms tsurugi is still very much active in the inner workings of the agreste family.

let’s set the record straight: we know very little about ms tsurugi’s partnership with gabriel from the earlier seasons. however, we do know that ms tsurugi is a very wealthy, smart, and cunning individual who owns a business in the technology industry, allowing for her to team up with gabriel to create the alliance rings in s5. she knew gabriel was monarch and willingly working with him (very important to note that she did not work for him), her intentions a mystery.

obviously, what made me realize tsurugi likely had some involvement in the events of revelator was vincent mentioning she sponsored him in one of his videos:

seems kinda meaningless at face value, like something the writers inserted to fill an awkward space in the script. however, if you watch miraculous, you know that everything is intentional.

okay, so ms tsurugi sponsors this recently famous influencer who makes a living off of spreading false information about people. this is odd, as it doesn’t seem like the type of content tsurugi (a very no-nonsense type of person) would endorse.

on the contrary, vincent’s videos are coincidentally targeted at “reporting” on people who tsurugi had some sort of personal connection to. weird, right?

the most obvious example of this is how vincent is very clearly anti-adrienette. tsurugi and gabriel pushed hard for adrien and kagami to get together in earlier seasons to create “perfect” images for their brands.

as soon as these words came out of his mouth, sirens immediately went off in my mind. WHY is vincent, a seemingly irrelevant character, using the same type of language gabriel and tsurugi used to describe their own children???

rich, famous, good-looking. vincent is glorifying adrien and kagami, describing them as pretty and powerful faces that shouldn’t be involved with common people such as marinette, a baker’s daughter (who he implied is using adrien for his status and success).

language like this has been used to describe adrien since his adrien, the fragrance days—perfect being the most prominent word. why? the lore is insane (iykyk), but to put it simply, adrien is a sentimonster, a creation in the eyes of gabriel. he believed his son could be nothing short of flawless.

a theory common in the miraculous fandom is that kagami is also a sentimonster. i won’t dive into this theory too much, but there’s plenty of concrete evidence to back it up—a noteworthy one being tsurugi using similar language to describe her daughter as gabriel did for adrien. she has high expectations for kagami, and wants her to be nothing short of the best—exactly how gabriel “parented” adrien.

from vincent’s video, it’s implied that tsurugi paid him to spread hurtful misinformation that marinette was a golddigger. her motivation? to get kagami and adrien back together. we already know she hates felix, her daughter’s current boyfriend, so it makes sense.

a possible counterargument:

“vincent is just creating meaningless drama revolving around the popular topic of gabriel agreste’s death, as it offers the opportunities for him to gain popularity”

respectfully, nothing is meaningless in miraculous. maybe i would agree with this argument if TSURUGI of all people didn’t sponsor his content. maybe i would agree with this argument if he didn’t spread false information that clearly villainized marinette and glorified kagami. he also obviously has it OUT for mari. don’t tell me he’s not obsessed with making people hate her because HELLOOOOOO:

people are gonna love hating the baker girl.

it’s giving very much lila/cerise vibes, honestly. i wouldn’t be surprised if this was some scheme involving tsurugi and lila to turn everyone against marinette, something cerise has been trying to do SINCE SEASON ONE.

so, what do i believe? i believe FOR SURE that tsurugi has something to do with the events of revelator, likely paying vincent to spread misinformation about marinette with the hopes of kagami and adrien getting back together. i also believe it’s very possible cerise is somehow involved in this, maybe working with tsurugi in some way.

LET ME ALSO SAY: tsurugi only cares about marinette because she is preventing kagami from a relationship with adrien. she would not care about ruining marinette’s life otherwise. cerise, however? she obviously hates mari. if tsurugi and cerise did work together to orchestrate vincent’s secrets, it benefitted BOTH of them: pushed for an adrigami redemption (for tsurugi) and demonized marinette publicly (for cerise).

i’m feeling a lil bit like cerise with her thousands of notebooks with this all over the place rant, but lmk what yall think 😭😭😭

[bylertruthr]

i’ve been wondering. why do people get so mad when people ship Byler, while they nonetheless support and like other ships that include Mike/El (example: Elmax)?

well the only logical explanation for this is that, if we’re being real, Elmax has almost a zero percent chance of being canon in S5. i think we can all agree with that. so people ship it because it’s fun and because their dynamic is cute, so what’s the harm in shipping them romantically right??? well that’s the thing. they KNOW it won’t be canon. that’s why they ship it, because it has almost a 0% chance of destroying their ‘perfect ship’, (aka Milkvan).

on the OTHER hand, the reason Milkvans (and some general fans) are pissed off with Byler shippers is because it actually has a chance of becoming canon in S5. think about it— what other possible reason could they be so mad at us for shipping them together? because they’re two boys?? but aren’t Elmax also two girls? so that’s not a valid excuse.

they see how our theories and proof make sense, yet they still call us “delusional” and that we’re “trying to make a character gay” because that’s the only responses they can ever come up with. to add to it, it has literally never been confirmed or denied that Mike is straight or not. so we are technically allowed to theorise about his sexuality and his possibly internalised homophobia; unlike Will who is canonically gay and in love with Mike (confirmed by Noah Schnapp, who plays Will, himself.) (also to all those who ship him with El, please get help. i mean it. <3)

it’s also the fact that if Will were a girl, i mean, just think about it— almost EVERY Milkvan shipper would be ready to admit that there’s something between Will and Mike. i can guarantee that 70% of Milkvan shippers would probably be team Byler. but they can’t see the signs because, number one, they’re less obvious to the GA, and number two, they’re both guys, so obviously their chemistry is just platonic, right? 😒

again, i’m not saying that affectionate male friendships shouldn’t be normalised in TV shows. i absolutely think they should be. but it’s the fact that there’s so much evidence backing up our theories and claims that makes us believe that this is not just a “simple affectionate male friendship.” again, we’re just called delusional because we DARE to believe in a queer couple being endgame. isn’t that crazy, when you think about it?

if you’re ever having Byler doubt, do not let those milkvans brainwash you into thinking you’re imagining things, because you’re not. you’re one of the few who can actually detect possibly hidden romantic innuendo, and i’m proud of you for that. you’re not delusional. you’re not desperate for a character to be queer. you’re simply observing and seeing very clear facts.

thank you for reading my rant if you made it this far 💕😭

[all-pacas]

while house was planned ahead to a certain extent - rumors of the dibala plot first surfacing in the middle of s5, the slow burn of house's s5 breakdown, the rampup of cameron and chase's relationship from s3-5 and so on - and some things seem reasonably inevitable (it makes perfect sense for a series loosely inspired by sherlock holmes to end with house faking his death) - it's also clear that a lot of things were made up on the fly, right?

an easy example of foreman becoming dean of medicine: entertainment/cast interviews at the time made it clear that lisa edelstein's leaving was unexpected, and that edi gathegi (cole) was in talks to resume his role as dean in s8, before shore landed on foreman as a cuddy replacement. or even the beloved-by-fans plot twist of chase md, which was pretty clearly intended for foreman in s1-5 and only became inevitable in s8. but there's some other things, too: cameron's abrupt mid-series departure, adams's s8 sidelining when the show started to wrap up, thirteen's long absences due to olivia wilde's schedule. it's a credit to how well written the show is that these things tend to feel natural, but... we know (from cast/writer interviews) they weren't.

there's some other things, too. the show was written and filmed in chunks of 6 or so episodes at a time, leading to multiple self-contained plot arcs but few to no season long threads. the show has almost no foreshadowing that isn't (and i mean this affectionately) fans doing a lot of heavy lifting to explain: lots of plots and mini-arcs come out of nowhere and leave just as quickly, vogler being a classic example. it's a great show! but it wasn't that tightly or well planned. kutner's death is another example: while the writers might have intended on some darker storyline for him, everyone is pretty clear that his death was also a way to get kal penn off the show and into the white house. the camchase marriage/divorce also smacks of hasty writing -- why spend so much time on a wedding if we're never going to see cameron again, you know?

and so i'm honestly very curious about what the show would have looked like if it had been planned. if the ending -- cameron and cuddy leaving, foreman as dean, thirteen gone, chase md -- HAD been planned from the start, if the entire show was working towards the s8 finale as aired, how would the show be changed? because i think it would be changed. and in some really interesting ways. just offhand:

if chase was always meant to be the new house, then we need to take out all the instances of him being uninterested in diagnostics (eg, telling cameron she was always the one of the two of them who liked the department), and probably have him move on less totally/successfully in s4-5 -- given him an arc about wanting back on the team, of still wanting to be around house.

if cameron was always meant to leave, she shouldn't have her Dean Cameron arc, she shouldn't spend so long lingering on house. really, you probably should switch her and chase's s4-5 storylines entirely: maybe have her cool on house as early as s2 and stay out of what she feels to be obligation, despite itching to move on.

if foreman was supposed to be dean, then i think his disagreements with house should be less about how similar they are and think, and more about principle: have him be the rat character (instead of chase), have him be a rule stickler, not someone who usually thinks he is above them. give him cameron's arc of befriending cuddy and serving as her number two; have him try to leave the team and not spend most of the series as house's #2.

[love-byers]

well... i've got some bad news for you then

jokes aside this is why i stopped shipping mlvn. every season i was ready for the unity, the happiness, them teaming up, getting serious. and it never happened. at the end of every season before 4 i was like "okay now it's getting real there won't be anymore stupid bullshit between them" and in s4, boom. mike can't say i love you, same shit from s3.

i lost interest. i was tired of waiting for them to be likable again. that's why i literally didn't watch s3 for 2 years. i was so pissed that they turned mlvn into comic relief. then i discovered byler and i was like "holy shit this is better than mlvn ever was AND it makes mlvn's decline make sense narratively"

you shouldn't want to see your canon ship be happy together, fighting as a team. in a show where every single season is about people fighting a supernatural threat together, you should ship them because they already do that.

for example, i and many others like jancy BECAUSE they make such a good team, clearly understand each other, and make each other happy. i never had to WANT to see them portrayed that way, because they were already doing it. that was the entire point of their relationship, for us to be like holy shit just kiss already you're literally perfect together

with mlvn you have to say holy shit stop kissing and have some substance

and that's the same reason why i and many others don't like stancy. we aren't given a good reason to want them together besides them already being together. they would need significant development in s5 to be likable, and that's exactly why i don't like them.

i can't root for a ship where i literally have to beg the writers for them to work together/have screentime, understand each other and be happy around each other.

i like byler because we don't have to see them date to know they care about each other. i want to see them date BECAUSE of how well they work together. their bond goes deep. they have all this backstory and history, they bring out the best in each other, they are canonically a team, they understand each other and know exactly how to comfort each other, plus they've done all these tropes throughout the show (will only remembering mike when he lost his memory, mike being breaking will out of trances, mike declaring that will is this best choice he's ever made, fighting in the rain, etc etc)

i didn't have to beg for any of that. it was all already there. i don't have to imagine scenarios where will and mike work together as a team or defend each other or stand by each other because they already do all of that.

that is WHY i want them to be together, because they are already so perfect for each other. i don't want them to be perfect for each other just because they're already dating.

[coffeegnomee]

Devotions though, I'm back thinking about Spoke's video. When Spoke told them he was scripting the dupe war with parrot: Zam's devastating "it's scripted" filled with all the disappointment, sorrow, betrayal, devastation that those two words could be filled with.

Mapicc's "I'd rather be banned than this be scripted".

This is why they're them. This is why everyone looks at them with a healthy little bit of fear, unsure what move they will make. (Zy's post about mapicc got me thinking about this.)

Bc imo it's this. This pure and purified distain for scripting.

Mapicc will exploit/cheat/go too far/murder before questions to stop a scripted story: to stop someone from dominating a story with their own plan without getting the input from the team. He will do that sporadic shit if it makes sense to him. And it really only has to make sense to him. Your script be damned.

Zam's incessant figure-it-out-as-he-goes mentality towards the story. Staying consistent with the character but always reassessing, always rethinking, always being moved by the narrative that others present.

It makes both of them incredibly consistent but also incredibly erratic for the other members.

And especially with like mawn, mapicc just going for the plan with no plan just an outline maybe. taking the conversations, making assumptions, doing things and seeing what happens. And then he gets blindsided by this mentality from zam as well where he thought zam would join or oppose but zam just chose.. sitting out. And for reasons that made perfect sense to himself.

fuck it, i'll write it in this post: both have this very particular way of making videos on lifesteal.

There's two general categories of lifesteal videos:

get the idea to happen on the server and the video is about making it happen, culminating in the success. Generally they go until they make it happen no matter how long it takes.

have an idea at the start the video, and see where it goes, ending wherever makes sense.

Devotions hit that second category more often than not. Mapicc still does the first occasionally, but mawn is a great example of it. The oath is another. The joker, abyss, castle (from both sides), even dupe war from their pov. The dupe was already a sure thing when they started the video, what progressed was what they did with it.

They both so fully embrace the wildness that is unscripted mcrp in a way that goes beyond a lot of the members, even as, obv, unscripted is the law of lifesteal.

Cause like, wormhole is a fantastic example of the first. And the "problem" (difficulty) with it is you don't really have a video if it never happens. So you veer closer and closer to making it happen at any cost.

It's also interesting to think of Leo's trapping Flame video as the first, especially as, for that type of video, his first traps had to fail for the video's progression, but then it got out of hand and he went for the void and an end crystal used in dubiously illegal ways. But the video could not end until Flame died.

Flame's 10v1 is another example of the first. And mapicc went *nope* and objected to Flame thinking it would be that easy to force the server around when it got a little difficult (planning is difficult).

I love both categories fr. but its so interesting to look at the videos and the server because on so many levels, the narrative that bounces around the members is "if I can figure out the video idea, i get what they're doing", which works perfectly for the first, but with the second, and we've literally seen this so much with s5, with the second it's like, okay I get the video idea; why are you still doing it. And the reasoning is so much more hidden and not understood from the outside even though from the inside it's the most logical and obvious series of events.

And what is most fun is how the death star was 1 and then became 2. And the second it shifted from "i will make a death star" into "we made a death star and it didn't work: what next?" was precisely the moment Mane could not understand why Minute would take the 1v1. Because this type of video is not about the results, it's about the journey. It's about standing up for what you believe in. It's about seeing how people react.

And all of that leads to a player who is confusing and unknown and a little bit scary. Who might just end the world, or maybe just your world.

[wisteriasymphony]

As someone who’s still stuck in a situation .. I agree with your sentiment . And the thing is that there is SEVERAL instances where he makes mistakes or acts petty , needy and on the verge of snapping , breaking BUT it always ends with him repressing those feelings back for Ladybugs’s sake , which I wouldn’t mind at all , it’s a great take on how he’s been groomed to put everyone else above himself , the thing is that they never bring this up or make light of how unhealthy this is . Plus he has many loser moments , he’s far from perfect , the show just sort of dismisses this and he’s not focused on enough for people who notice . Still glad that they’re focusing more on the other side characters

Yeahhh. Like I said in the addendum, a lot of really interesting behaviors on his end seem to not be given proper weight because they're transparently in service of the larger plot moreso than anything meant to communicate that he's got very unhealthy coping mechanisms. S5 Finale is perhaps the clearest example of "plot-over-Adrien", since they had an end goal of Bug Noire soloing Monarch girlboss style and tried to backwrite to have it fit.

Which, to be fair, girlbossing the big bad is not inherently bad within itself, it's just that given the previous five seasons of setup it did not properly deliver on any payoff for Gabriel and Adrien's relationship. Gabriel never had to contend with his son being Chat Noir, and what could've been a great instance of an abused child finally able to stand up against their abuser isn't even considered.

I hope you're able to get out of your situation soon, anon. <3 Better days are always coming

I don't care that he got a Chat Blanc dream that told him not to show up to the final fight. The writers chose to add that in and they didn't have to. Every writing choice is deliberate and therefore is worthy of analysis.

[inbredsaint]

dean definitely views sam as extremely pure and innocent when they’re younger. throughout the series he reinforces the idea of sam being his perfect submissive baby brother. who doesn’t bite back, who’s the perfect listener, a dog that just lies down and takes it. sam does not have control in this situation. he is desperate for his older brother’s validation. he craves to be small again & *just* be dean’s “little brother” and you’ll notice that through small touches and immature teasing jokes. how he leans into dean’s physical affection like it’s the only thing he’s ever known and wanted. they fall into this dom/sub dynamic so consistently throughout the show it’s just undeniable. and as they get older (prestanford-s5) it’s harder for dean to reinforce it, considering sam is growing a mind of his own and he’s forming his own thoughts and his own wants and needs and dean winchester could not possibly imagine or handle that. so he fixes it. he uses violence, manipulation, intimidation. because he loves his brother so impossibly much he couldn’t fathom the idea of *his* sam leaving for stanford or leaving him to go back. he sees sam as an extension of himself almost, he considers sam his own. but when sam doesn’t live up to that, for example, with ruby & the demon blood, dean locked sam away in the panic room and would rather him die than be anyone else but his perfect little brother.

[wizardelio]

Whatttt Is your Favoriteeee...

• Byler Gate/theory?

• Byler Proof?

• Byler moment?

• ST character? (Mby Ur top 5?)

• byler/miwi headcanon?

• Duo in the Show? (Exept byler)

• Line in Stranger Things?

• ST season?

• byler related Song?

OK SOOOO.

my favourite byler gate is probably flickergate. it was the first one i heard about and i just think it's a great idea! my favourite byler theory is that mike is going to confess his love for will in ep6, because of the theory that camazotz is a reference to a novel called "a wrinkle in time", where the main characters basically defeat evil with the power of love.

for byler proof... we have so much to choose from, but in my opinion, the most obvious one is the california plot in season 5. because if you think about it, what was the point of it? exploring will's feelings for mike? that would make no sense if they were just going to make mike reject him in the end! (also the van scene taking a whole day to shoot is pretty big evidence...).

my favourite byler moment is when mike tells will about the day that they met, when will was possessed in season 2. it makes me emotional everytime i watch it! i also love their fight at the rink-o-mania in season 4!

my favourite stranger things character is mike. i think he's such a well written character and i also relate to him in a lot of ways. my second favourite is will, for the same reasons. i think my third favourite is el. i love her, she's just been through so much and all i want is for her to be happy! i also love dustin!! he's so kind to everyone but he's also just a very fun character!

i don't know if i have any headcanons... when i read fanfiction, i love jealous mike. but this isn't really a headcanon. for example in season 2, when max wanted to join the party, if you look into why he didn't want her to, you can see that it's probably because he was jealous about the fact that will seemed so interested in her. also when mike asks will about his painting in the airport scene in season 4... that boy was jealous!!!

this may be an unpopular opinion, but i love the el/mike duo! i don't ship mileven, but i do think that they have very cute scenes together, especially in the first 2 seasons. of course, i love the more popular duos like steve and dustin and robin and steve, but i'd really love to see robin and will together in season 5. from what we've seen in the date announcement teaser, they're going to have some scenes together, so i'm really excited to see them interact!!

i can't pick only one line from the whole show, but i loved when hopper said "make mistakes, learn from 'em. and when life hurts you, because it will, remember the hurt. the hurt is good. it means you're out of that cave." in his letter at the end of season 3. really made me emotional!

for my favourite season... once again, it's hard to only pick one. i love season 2, so i think it's my favourite! i love the lumax plot, discovering steve and dustin's friendship, the possession of will, etc. season 4 is a close second though!

i have made multiple byler playlists over the years, and i've been listening to my s5 byler one a lot recently. i love "some protector" by role model, i think it really fits them! "i wanna dance with somebody (who loves me)" by whitney houston is also perfect for them!

thanks for asking me all those amazing questions!!!

[wenellyb]

Re: Buck getting angry with Tommy.

As much as I agree with you that Buck should get to be angry with Tommy, I don’t really think it’d be in character for him for longer than one explosive shout or rant, and even that would need quite some build-up. Something to keep in mind here is that Tevan are insecure4insecure and abandonment issues4abandonment issues, with the added bonus of Tommy being a runner and Buck a clinger.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that Buck is so terrified of driving people away that he defaults to taking the blame in most conflicts even if it isn't, or if it is only marginally. The biggest example of this is probably in S5, where sure, he messed up by not telling Chim about Jee-Yun almost drowning and that Maddie is safe, but Chimney punching him was easily the bigger transgression (Chim’s poor mental state at the time notwithstanding). Despite that, Buck basically took all the blame for the situation, though Chim did apologize (albeit off-screen) after coming back to LA.

It’s why Buck breaking up with Taylor, imo, was quite significant. He realized that as much as he’s scared of being alone, it’s still better than being with someone who breaks his trust. And even then, he wasn't really angry with her, just disappointed.

I think it makes sense from a character perspective that he’s not angry with Tommy, as much as he’d have the right to. Because of that, I feel like the more logical resolution, again from a character perspective, would be for Tommy to make the first step, admit his fault and ask for forgiveness before resolutely, confidently asking to try again, no “not as much.”

I don’t think we’ll get that, because the Buckley sibling “I love you” scene in 8x16 was loud, to say the least lmao, but I feel like it would be the best option.

Anyway, I hope my ramblings make at least some lick of sense and I didnt bother you or anything 😅

Hiiii!!! You could never brother me, I loooove these discussions😉

You're absolutely right, Buck is so afraid of driving people off that he's willing to take the blame, but for once I would like him to disagree with Tommy and tell him: "you don't know my feelings better than I do, I won't hurt you."

I'm not sure will get that either, but the resolution you described would be the perfect reunion imo, with Tommy making the first step and definitely no "not so much".

Thank so much you for sending me this and it made perfect sense don't worry!

[zipzapfrogboy]

BYLER DOUBT BE DAMNED (An analysis on blocking and it’s significance)

Read this if you’re having doubt because I promise it will help at least a little.

(This might be sort of long and a bit unorganized because it’s my first analysis of sorts but just stick with me.)

The main thing that confirms Byler for me (and helps with doubt) is the final shots of season 4.

You know. Those.

I’m definitely not the first person to point it out but I want to talk about it a little more in depth. Specifically the blocking. It is so clearly a deliberate choice to place Mike and Will between two other canon couples (Joyce and Hopper and Nancy and Jonathan respectively). It’s most definitely foreshadowing both to romance and possibly s5 teams.

I’m a theatre kid, I’ve been acting since I was seven, I have experience and know some stuff. If directors don’t like what you’re doing or don’t think it works then they’ll tell you stop. The improv you see in shows and movies are things that were approved and stayed in because the directors wanted it to (in like 90% of cases). Same goes with blocking. Actors can’t just stand where they want unless explicitly told to do so.

Placement has purpose and meaning. It is so unbelievably specific and thought out. I have a director/theatre teacher who gave us at least a 30 minute explanation about how important stage placement is and the what it can convey. On numerous occasions she’s made us take two small steps forward, a large step back, stand a bit further from xyz, etc.

I was in a show that started rehearsing in June and the director had been planning and working on it since March or maybe even before then. Blocking (and choreography in the context of musicals) is planned for weeks to months ahead of time. Directors have visions and the reasons behind how they set scenes is to execute that vision perfectly and convey the right message and emotions.

I’m sorry if that all seemed random I’m just trying to emphasize my point.

Obviously it’s a bit different for filmed content but I don’t doubt that the same logic is applicable. You don’t place two characters who hate each other together because it doesn’t make sense story wise or character wise.

It’s thought out, planned, and so purposeful. It’s not just random placement and it’s certainly not foreshadowing just team pairings. Two characters who are a part of a complex love triangle standing between two already existing couples? Right…

And so now my question is, why?

Why else would they set it up and block it like that? Give me an answer that explains the reasoning behind that choice; the choice of having El stand alone in front of them and having her boyfriend stand next to the person who’s in love with him. What else would that mean? That’s simply not how you do blocking.

When you as a director look at something from the outsider/audience perspective you need to see it with their eyes. What else could that convey? I’m being genuine when I say I don’t see anything else. If there is another way to interpret it (that makes sense and isn’t plagued by bias) then please tell me.

It’s a perfect example of foreshadowing. El standing alone symbolizes her arc of becoming an independent person outside of romance and Hopper. Her whole story has been about learning how to be a person and be herself. Her standing out alone in the field in front of her burning hometown isn’t supposed to mean nothing.

Just like Mike and Will standing together isn’t supposed to mean nothing.

We know Jopper is endgame, I can’t see why they wouldn’t be, and I’m 90% sure that Jancy will be endgame (or if they break up it will be on good terms). So, again, why would they place Mike and Will between those people. If it was supposed to be showing how close they are and how wonderfully strong their friendship is then why did they choose those other characters? MAKE IT MAKE SENSE. IT’S THE DEFINITION OF A PARALLEL.

If I end up being wrong then idk.

Thank you for reading :)

Also there’s this so like

[generalluxun]

Who do you think is more fitting to be “Creator’s Pet” of the show: Astruc’s virtual daughter Marinette or perfect and flawless Adrien?

Okay, before I start- I don't like the term creator's pet, it tends to suggest currying favor on the 'pet' part, and obviously Marinette or Adrien can't do that.

Perhaps 'favorite'? and let me lay some ground rules.

This is not character salt! Nothing here should be used to deride the characters. This is about the narrative woven with/around them. This is examining the external biases at play.

We must recognize that Marinette is the PoV character for the show. That is value-neutral. We can't hold screen time as evidence.

That said let's tackle Adrien being 'perfect' first. I know the show and creator use that word a lot but it is very clear in the show that ... He's not. He makes mistakes, he gets *called out* for his mistakes, he gets upset, he apologizes. He's not perfect.

So, why/how/what is the purpose of the perfect mantra in the show? It's because Adrien is a *trophy*. He was Gabriel's trophy, and now he's Marinette's. A trophy must be 'perfect', or how can it be a trophy? He makes no demands(his flirting as Cat Noir was shown as him being wrong and he corrected his behavior to be more perfect), he gives everything, he carries emotional baggage and costs nothing.

All of his perfection benefits *other people* in the narrative, not himself. Does that sound like a favorite? No it sounds like something you *give* to your favorite.

Because yes, I do believe Marinette suffers from an above-average attachment by her creator(and some fans) I say suffers from because I think it hurts her as a character. Superficially it seems to her benefit, but below the surface it's empty calories.

Marinette makes mistakes too, but they are always framed as best intentions. At the end of any disagreement she is the one in the right. Her pain is always the focus/valid one in any situation. S5 amped this up to the point I call it 'Poor Mari' when it happens. Any emotional situation must make you sympathize with Marinette first and often only. It doesn't matter what or who is involved. The entire Agreste Arc has been summed up by the emotional impact *Adrien's family being the villains and his father dying* have on *Marinette* not Adrien. Marinette gets the sympathy for someone else's crisis. How weird is that? It's not even that she did anything wrong (before the lie) but no one else seems to be allowed to experience more emotion than she does, no matter the situation.

That is a strange choice and one that hurts the narrative and her character. (As they find new/more/repeat ways to put her in emotional turmoil to keep her always center all the time)

As an example from before S5, we can look at how Luka/Kagami were handled. It's two parallel situations, handled at the same time. How they're handled gives the insight you are asking for.

Marinette's struggle is the first an foremost thing in Truth. Luka is the sweetest bean, and even when he's akumatized it is all about her pain the end and her having to break up with him. He's upset but he never blames her, never corrects her. After the breakup he is still completely supportive and always there. He works to find her happiness, even though he openly admits to still being in love with her. Marinette is handled gently and put on a pedestal.

Meanwhile, Lies focuses more on Kagami and her efforts to connect with Adrien who is pining for Ladybug( just as Marinette is pining for Adrien) She gets mad at him. She breaks up with him. She holds him accountable for his behavior. She gets over him. When she finally joins team Adrienette it is for *Marinette's* sake, not Adrien's. (MP72)

So yes, Marinette is favored heavily, beyond simply 'the main character' she is the center of this world physically and emotionally in a way that is only more noticable as time goes on.

Oh- and another easy metric: How many people have said Marinette is the best Ladybug ever vs. has anyone ever given Cat Noir the time of day except Ladybug when she felt bad about leaving him out of the loop?

[lukiaxx]

List of byler-gates

I’m just bored, but read it anyways, it’s fun

there sooo many of them, and i’m still pretty lazy so this isn’t perfect, but just let’s start

Mikhailgate

This is practically anti byler theory, but nvm

So, Dimitri has a son named Mikhail, which is russian version of name Michael, Mike

So, people were just saying that instead of Mike, Will will end up with Mikhail(who’s technically Mike bc of the name, yk)

I think everyone was just joking, oh, good ol’ times

and willloveinterestgate is the same

Lettergate/Pocketgate

These theories aren’t the same one, but it’s basically the same concept, ig

The basic thing is, that Mike wrote a letter to Will(singed Love, Mike)

In pocketgate, Mike has the letter saved in his triangle pocket, bc in st, characters many times has letters, that were important to them, in their left pocket(above the heart), for example Hopper and El(Hopper’s heart-to-heart), Jonathan(acceptance letter to college) etc.

And he would just take it out in the middle of confession or sth

+the triangle always points to Will like an arrow

Lettergate is just basically the same, ok, idk how to describe it differently 

Twelvegate

Not exactly a byler, but theory, that Will was number twelve in HNL, and that he’s El’s actual twin

And from that, there’s theory that Will has powers, but wasn’t n. 012

Okay, back to byler

This is same as rainbowgate i think

Flickergate

This theory is very lovely! after Will tells Mike that rolled seven in s1, the light behind them flickers

and since ud is frozen on nov6 83, when you signal sth from ud, it should appear at nov6 83-s1

this connects to electricgate(i dunno if sth like this exist, but just keep reading), the electricity~are friends electric~will possibly having electric powers

so mike and will could go together in s5 to ud on a mission or sth, and kiss in wheelers garage, and that would make the light flicker(i’m so good at explaining things, right😐)

will and mike going to ud together is predicted by mike and will sitting on upside down couch in last ep. of s4

Birthdaygate/Memorygate

Soo, remember how they forgot Will’s birthday? what if all wills memories, that people reminded him of in the shed are gone? his birthday, building castle byers, meeting mike… and that’s why mike says that his life started the day he found her, bc he doesn’t remember meeting Will

for me, it’s really weird, they couldn’t just forget Will’s birthday, no, this ain’t it

Kiss at lovers lake

I’m not sure if this has a different name, but it’s that their first kiss will be near lovers lake

evidence: patrick(the kid who died at lovers lake), had a nickname “berlin wall” or sth(we saw this in the school newspaper), and it was devided to four, same as hawkins

and song heroes is abt couple who lived at different sides of berlin wall, and idk, it just connects, okay?

when will painted the map of hawkins while he was possessed, mike was holding blue and yellow meter

Eightfifteengate

Context: will left the wheelers at 8:15 in s1

in s1e1, time mark 8:15 is literally the shot where will disappears in the shead

i think there’s a season 2 soundtrack called eight fifteen

tw: time fuckery: while will was recording on halloween night, the time says 8:04 while he’s recording mike saying “did you agreed with this?”, but when joyce rewatches it, it show 8:15(byler)

“ it’s 8:15, you’re late”

btw, clocks and watches from hiroshima are stuck at 8:15

aaanywaaay, there’s just too much 8:15 things, aaah(this is just a few)

what it has to do with byler?

well, 15-8=….(wait for it)….seven. a byler number. it was a seven!

also, “the first lie”, when murray says this to jancy, the time mark is… guess what, 8:15

there’s this theory with the songs “the first lie” and “the first i love you”, and it just connects 

Motelgate

theory, that after mike’s “love” confession to el, they went to a motel for sleep, and mike and will had to share a bed, and we could possibly see flashbacks of it in s5, and it would kinda explain the two day skip

Colorgate

blue and yellow meet in the west, i’m sure you know this one, and there’s sooo many evidence in this

mattduffersbasementgate

It’s too late for this to be true, but the duffers are(/were) holding every cast member that ships byler in their basement, lol

bloopergate

Bloopers from byler scenes, basically, for example “not when i was the spy, oh fuck”, basically Finn and Noah being all giggly, i guess

bloopergate implies to every blooper, but why not to mention it

curtaingate

Sth like, that when there’s some fight happening between characters, if curtains are open, it means they’re open with their feeling and opposite 

Example: milkvan make out scene-closed, but you don’t love me fight-opened

Bonus: „ but they like the curtain. people like us are just trying to look behind the curtain”(my very bad quotation of murray, yk what i mean)

Also, Suzie had blue and yellow curtains, and they were opened

And, “and i love her and i can’t lose her again”? Also curtains closed, like wtf, this fandom is crazy

piggybackgate

El knows abt Mike and Will. she saw how they act around each other, she’ve heard will saying “you’re the heart” to mike, saw that mike has Will’s painting now

New Coke Theory

basically, old coca colla is mileven, new coke is byler. it contains some of the old ingredients(mike), and new ones too(will). not everyone likes(bc its gay ship). and when you look at scenes with can of new coke, it’s many times symbolizing byler vs. milkvan

one of my favorite new coke theory examples is this: in s3, after el gets attacked by the flesh monster, she tries to crash a can(but she doesn’t have her powers, so she can’t). this is a can of new coke(byler) and she can’t crush that/destroy it. and in this scene, we get a flashback to the lab, where she crushes aka destroys regular coke(mileven)

phonegate

mike and will not calling each other, bc of joyce’s telemarketer job(he won’t stop whining abt it)

————

i miss all these little silly theories abt literally everything

i hope the byler tag will be like this once again

maybe we could start naming our new theories “gate”s again

for example: heartfeltgat, strangerwritersgate, snowkissgate or sth

anyway, byee

[coffeegnomee]

for the inevitable day I can be proven wrong, I just want to say just how many times I think Kab and Mane are secretly working together and I get really convinced it all makes sense and if she is as good of an actor as she insists then this is just not a crazy take at all.

But then I remember what she says on her streams and I remember I have zero belief that that could be true in the slightest.

But then something like Hannah conveniently being logged out right above the claymore and becoming the perfect scapegoat for how mane found it, or the signs that mane could have found it himself covers up the concept of a mole on the team. How much it reminds me of what spoke was like in the s3 finale. How much it's in the little moments that expose a liar regardless of what they say.

How zam literally gave her the example of working with mapicc to kill pangi and how that showed how dedicated he was to him getting the mapicc kill. How convenient it is for her if the claymore fails so she can be the one to kill mane. How easy it would be dm mane that. and mane can take care of covering for her by saying he found it. how i definitely believe he would be intrigued and pleased with the possibility of a story like that.

how much mane targets her and how easy of a justification that is for her to infiltrate the opposition. How incredibly offended she gets when anyone implies this isn't her kill, while she stays to the side making other's plans come to light.

How much she insists on knowing all of zam's plans. always asking questions.

how much she insists that she cares about zam but has also said multiple times she wants to do a crazy arc on zam. the two can be true because they do care about each other outside of the server.

how she picked mane's iron farm for the conversation with bacon way back when. How she flew off to mane's lag machine area when talking to woogie. How coincidental that of all the places it was two manepear locations in the same week. How much i believe that that is the kind of audacity that kab would love to write into a story.

I just can't shake the Jumper paranoia since s5. How convincing jumper was for being a part of the team. How there were clear points of her being a traitor that got so completely brushed under the rug with easy excuses from her. How easily Spoke s3 got in on zam's team without trying because zam was willing to trust him instantaneously because they once shared views. Zam did all the heavy lifting for making Spoke not look sus, spoke just had to go along for the ride and make tiny silly mistakes that implicated every other member of the server while systematically leading to clown finding the bases himself.

But then i remember Kab is simply always happy when something benefits her, and so not being upset in the slightest over mapicc's claymore not working is so much easier explained as her just being happy her plan can work. Rather than already knowing it was never going to work.

And then I remember how afraid she gets about doing a plan and how much she overthinks before doing it. How much it feels like she's a bad actor when she turns on the acting, so it feels like she's just not good at acting. But what if she isn't.

The possibility is so low and yet the examples are there.

Because she's either the worst manipulator in the world and cannot read people and has only succeeded due to the shortness of other servers, or she holds out for the long con and can handle lying over a very long period of time and covering it by talking about her random other plans as cover for the long term, and she's lying to chat as well in every moment she is streaming. Which is a mind fuck I was not prepared for.

Because you don't need to actually characterize people well in order to manipulate them. You just need to understand yourself. And you just need to craft a narrative that makes enough sense for others to fill in the gaps.

but that's just a conspiracy. one that blossoms in every zam stream and dies in every kab stream. Hopefully I'm wrong but either way we'll know at the end of the season.

[markantonys]

the good thing about the slog is that because such little of true import happens over such a long chunk of the series, the show is quite well-positioned to be able to tell the whole story cohesively in any number of seasons after 4. only 4 seasons would be tricky, but 5 or 6 would be just as doable as 7 or 8. (disclaimer that there has not been any news or speculation about potentially getting less than 8 seasons so don't panic haha it's just a topic i was randomly thinking about today! that being said, i do think 8 seasons is pretty ambitious in today's television landscape, especially if it continues to take 2 years to make each season, so while we're all hoping for the full 8, it's worth imagining how they could do it in fewer.)

i expect s4 to roughly coincide with the end of LOC, so, dumai's wells for rand and being raised amyrlin for egwene. perrin, mat, nynaeve, and elayne have more wiggle room in what they might be getting up to during s4 (it seems possible the ebou dar trip might be absorbed into tanchico in s3, and perrin may have to get an invented plotline or have a later plotline brought forward for s4 since he has so little in TFOH-LOC), so i won't guess at the endpoint for them beyond that it will likely leave them ready to kick into a fresh new storyline for s5. and nynaeve frankly doesn't have a book storyline after ebou dar (she's just supporting rand's & lan's storylines), so i'll ignore her in this post and just focus on the other 5 mains. fingers crossed the show will come up with more for nynaeve to do during this part of the story, but that's a separate topic.

after LOC, as far as i can recall, each of them only has 1-2 main things they strictly Must do before the last battle (obviously i've left out a bunch of stuff, but i'm thinking of just the absolute bare minimum essentials here):

rand: cleanse saidin (only requires 1 episode); reach his lowest point, then pull himself back up again, all the while simultaneously working to get as many nations under his banner as possible

egwene: unite the tower as uncontested amyrlin

perrin: finish wolf training; fold the whitecloaks into his army

mat: rescue moiraine (only requires 1 episode); get himself in charge of the seanchan forces

elayne: become uncontested queen of andor

so if s4 ends where i speculate, they'd all be perfectly positioned to spend 4-6 episodes of s5 doing these things, then the last battle for the remaining 2-4 episodes, and boom, we've fit all the most crucial things into only 5 seasons.

i know the instinct is to gasp and insist that they all have so much else to do, but.........do they really? everybody agrees that egwene & elayne & perrin only have 1 plotline during books 7-11 which is dragged out for more books than is needed to tell it, so mat and rand are really the sticking points. but if you think about it, mat spends this time repeatedly starting one plotline but then getting yanked out of it partway through to start a new one, so he doesn't actually accomplish that much story-wise. rand, meanwhile, is on a bunch of little 1-book quests (taking illian, seanchan campaign, hunting traitor asha'man, trying to meet with DOTNM) that could be cut for time or merged into his Darth Rand emotional arc from TGS. honestly, he's so emotionally stagnant for most of books 7-11 (he's either not present, dicking around doing nothing, or repeating emotional beats he already did in TSR-LOC) that i don't think going from dumai's wells straight to Darth Rand would be a bad idea at all, if the show had to; in fact, dumai's wells is kind of a perfect launchpoint for that arc, emotions-wise, and plot-wise, if they wanted to replace some of the arad doman events with some slog events, but just put the Darth Rand emotional spin on those slog events, they could easily do so (for example, him being reckless/arrogant with callandor against the seanchan and getting his own people killed could sub in for natrin's barrow in showing how ruthlessly Ends Justify Means he's becoming).

but anyway, these are imo the absolute most crucial pre-TLB plot points of the second half of the series (at least for these main characters, i'm not taking ALL characters into account in this post) and they could be fit into only 5 seasons without much trouble. now if you've got 6, 7, or 8 seasons, that gives extra room to expand these plot points and also add in some additional, not-strictly-required-but-nice-to-have plot points like more Little Rand Quests, elayne taking the throne of cairhien, egwene & gawyn hunting assassins in the tower, and the faile kidnapping plotline. (while making this post i actually had a wild thought of the faile kidnapping being perrin's s4 plotline followed by wolves & whitecloak stuff in s5 then into TLB, or alternately the whitecloaks being part of the kidnapping plotline as perrin's unlikely allies rather than the seanchan; could be a great structure for a 5-6 season scenario, but for 7-8 it would cause perrin to run out of content too quickly haha)